| 00:02.04 | *** join/#maemo beford (~beford@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:02.14 | recharged | starhash-enabler allows you to make calls while using the star (*) and hash (#), such as *67 (which allows you to make a call without showing your phone number). I may have run out of room, but I highly doubt it. I'll check, though. is that not reset when it's flashed? |
| 00:04.09 | recharged | I also had an error while attempting to install starhash-enabler, but I don't think it was related. |
| 00:04.19 | recharged | I was missing a dependency, I believe |
| 00:04.57 | recharged | also, /opt is 41% full. |
| 00:06.06 | Oksana | Okay, then it's weird that rm /opt/pymaemo/something had input/output error |
| 00:06.37 | Oksana | tries to install starhash-enabler |
| 00:06.42 | recharged | could it be because it still has the data from a previous install? |
| 00:08.17 | Oksana | Maybe, something is corrupted? Remove contents of /opt/pymaemo/ and try to install fmms again? |
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| 00:10.31 | Oksana | recharged: Input/Output errors are solved by fscking? If you have to, fsck multiple times? |
| 00:12.47 | recharged | does ls not work properly in xterm? and it seems like fsck isn't installed |
| 00:13.10 | Oksana | ls works, should work at least. |
| 00:14.01 | recharged | I forgot to run fsck as root |
| 00:14.14 | recharged | but ls only works in root, too |
| 00:14.15 | recharged | weird |
| 00:16.01 | Oksana | ls should work not only as root. Either you reflashed with something weird, or you installed something strange, or there is lots of filesystem corruption? |
| 00:17.02 | *** join/#maemo beford (~beford@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:17.05 | Oksana | So, you have fsck? Do you know how to use it? /opt partition should be relatively small, fsck-ing it should not take hours |
| 00:18.04 | Oksana | relatively, as in, compared to MyDocs |
| 00:18.10 | recharged | probably some sort of corruption. the only things I've installed have been rootsh, starhash-enabler and fmms. |
| 00:18.20 | recharged | I do know how to use it, somewhat. |
| 00:24.33 | Oksana | rootsh is very common, fmms is common, starhash-enabler is not as common but nevertheless there are no reports of it creating filesystem corruption. What kind of error did you have while installing starhash-enabler? I installed it just now, without errors. |
| 00:28.09 | recharged | I don't think it has anything to do with starhash-enabler, I've previously installed it without any errors. I believe the same problem followed me from a previous flash, I just flashed this device a few minutes ago and it's doing the same thing, not allowing me to install fmms (and a few other different software, such as advanced-power-applet). I figured I had just messed something up and decided to reflash the device, to see if I |
| 00:28.09 | recharged | could install the software I was having trouble with. |
| 00:31.26 | Oksana | So, is it a problem of hardware, or of corrupted image you are flashing with? |
| 00:32.17 | recharged | I think it likely has to do with my emmc. |
| 00:34.19 | Oksana | eMMC is MyDocs partition, if I recall correctly? Feel free to reflash everything including emmc, if you have to. Also, checking MD5sums or something could help to make sure that images you are using are not corrupted. |
| 00:34.49 | Oksana | hasn't flashed for a very long time... |
| 00:35.38 | recharged | that's right. I would if 0xFFFF supported it. I'll check the md5sum, but I don't think that's the problem. |
| 00:35.45 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@85-76-80-124-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 00:37.23 | Oksana | Do you need N900's flasher-3.5 ? |
| 00:39.40 | recharged | I have it, I just can't get it to work due to dependencies not available in debian sid (they're too outdated). |
| 00:41.37 | Oksana | Ouch... If I have flasher-3.5, it's likely self-contained executable for Windows. Can you run flasher-3.5 from within a virtual machine of whatever debian version it requires? |
| 00:43.35 | recharged | probably, yeah. I could try it, I suppose. I just don't know which version has the libraries that I need. |
| 00:45.00 | recharged | do you think if I made a bug report for it nokia would even care? would they finally release the source code? |
| 00:46.05 | Oksana | Unlikely. Besides, it's probably part of the Nokia Mobile division which was bought by Microsoft. |
| 00:46.40 | recharged | that's what I was thinking, which is sad. |
| 00:47.15 | recharged | also, according to the docs, libusb (one of the two libraries I need) is packaged with the windows executable. |
| 00:51.14 | Oksana | libusb is needed only for Windows and Mac, not for Linux: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5 | http://mirrors.muarf.org/maemo/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/ |
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| 01:01.30 | recharged | it's needed, it's just that libusb is preconfigured in the kernel. and I use a bleeding-edge kernel, therefore libusb is a newer version than what's required for flasher-3.5. |
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| 01:17.52 | Oksana | If you want to avoid struggling with debian dependencies, try .tar.gz file with flasher-3.5 , then the only obstacle remaining will be actual incompatibility with new software. |
| 01:18.11 | Oksana | Or, you could use virtual machine with older kernel? /not sure/ |
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| 01:22.43 | recharged | I might do the virtual machine option, but maybe later. I wonder if I could get nokia on using the libusb software without specifying their changes to it? it's LGPL. they only offer you a download to the source code of the original libusb, yet package libusb with the windows executable. |
| 01:23.05 | recharged | then, they would have to release the source code of flasher-3.5, right? |
| 01:23.36 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@104.240.225.231) |
| 01:27.33 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@98.218.50.13) |
| 01:30.42 | Oksana | does not know exactly how licences work... |
| 01:31.47 | svetlana | how do you know that their windows executable is modified? |
| 01:32.09 | recharged | I don't. that's the point. |
| 01:33.27 | recharged | they didn't release the corresponding source code so there's no way I could know. and due to the fact that libusb is dual-licensed as GPL and LGPL, I could claim that they used the GPL libusb and they would then have to release the source code of flasher-3.5. |
| 01:33.51 | svetlana | ah, that |
| 01:34.21 | svetlana | you could compile yours for windows, and compare the md5sum or assembly |
| 01:35.45 | recharged | I don't have a windows computer to test that on so somebody else would have to do that. |
| 01:36.18 | recharged | and, how could I compare it if libusb is packaged with flasher-3.5? |
| 01:38.25 | svetlana | if it's a .dll, then maybe; if it's within the same file then harder |
| 01:43.18 | recharged | nevermind, I just found their source code for libusb. |
| 01:43.29 | svetlana | hah! and it's not lgpl then? |
| 01:44.09 | recharged | it's LGPL, they just released the source via download. |
| 01:44.49 | recharged | http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/upstream/libusb-win32-src-0.1.12.1.tar.gz |
| 01:45.57 | svetlana | The GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) is a free software license published by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). The license allows developers and companies to use and integrate software released under the LGPL into their own (even proprietary) software without being required by the terms of a strong copyleft license to release the source code of their own components. |
| 01:46.05 | svetlana | no probs, they don't have to release the flasher though |
| 01:46.38 | recharged | yeah, which is a really dumb license from the fsf, if you ask me. |
| 01:47.45 | Oksana | Well, that's why Apache OpenOffice's source code can be used in LibreOffice, but not in the opposite direction. |
| 01:48.17 | recharged | what do you mean? |
| 01:48.18 | svetlana | they've been adding some better "recently"... GPLv3 does not have this issue if memory serves |
| 01:48.46 | recharged | it doesn't, LGPL is just a bad license imo. |
| 01:49.04 | svetlana | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#LGPL is their official statement on it |
| 01:49.46 | svetlana | Using the ordinary GPL is not advantageous for every library. There are reasons that can make it better to use the Lesser GPL in certain cases. The most common case is when a free library's features are readily available for proprietary software through other alternative libraries. In that case, the library cannot give free software any particular advantage, so it is better to use the Lesser GPL for that library. |
| 01:49.58 | svetlana | This is why we used the Lesser GPL for the GNU C library. After all, there are plenty of other C libraries; using the GPL for ours would have driven proprietary software developers to use anotherâno problem for them, only for us. |
| 01:49.59 | svetlana | . |
| 01:51.19 | svetlana | Unfortunately can't comment on libusb. Do not know how 'unique' and worth clinging to it is, how much competition it has. :) |
| 01:51.39 | Oksana | LibreOffice can borrow code freely from OpenOffice, OpenOffice cannot borrow at all from LibreOffice. http://www.datamation.com/applications/apache-openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-2.html |
| 01:55.53 | recharged | I get the point of LGPL, I just think it was a bad idea on the fsf's part. if someone is going to make proprietary software, let them use a proprietary library/compiler. I don't care about proprietary software, to hell with it. |
| 01:56.13 | recharged | but I didn't know that about openoffice and libreoffice. |
| 02:02.45 | robbiethe1st | No, you're missing the point. The point is that LGPL is to be used to get your free software into places which it would otherwise not be |
| 02:02.51 | robbiethe1st | The compiler is just an example. |
| 02:03.17 | robbiethe1st | Because the wider spread the (open source) software is, the better. |
| 02:04.51 | recharged | but if it's used in conjunction with proprietary software, then what would it matter? it's still proprietary. while if libusb was exclusively GPL, then flasher-3.5 would have to be free. |
| 02:05.29 | robbiethe1st | The point though is that it /wouldn't/ be free. Nokia would have just used something other than libusb(a competitor) |
| 02:06.27 | recharged | is there a non-free alternative to libusb? |
| 02:06.48 | robbiethe1st | I'm sure there is... Windows sure has one. |
| 02:07.09 | robbiethe1st | The other option is that Nokia just uses the Windows usb libraries, and doesn't produce a Linux flasher version. |
| 02:08.20 | recharged | I guess there's that. |
| 02:10.01 | recharged | if GCC was exclusively GPL, would that mean that every software compiled with it would have to be free? |
| 02:10.51 | robbiethe1st | Possibly... which would mean that instead of using GCC, you might use ICC. |
| 02:11.29 | recharged | oh geez |
| 02:12.13 | robbiethe1st | The point is that the license was chosen, and then people decide or not to use it based on that |
| 02:12.22 | robbiethe1st | There's no retroactive changing |
| 02:14.26 | recharged | that's true. |
| 02:18.30 | *** join/#maemo lobito (~lobito@190.177.214.118) |
| 02:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, GCC is a tool. The products you produce with a tool are not licensed by the tool's license |
| 02:20.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least not under GPL license |
| 02:20.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | this might differ for any libs you use |
| 02:20.59 | *** join/#maemo xray256 (~xray256@90.194.208.3) |
| 02:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the binary produced by a compiler is no derivative work |
| 02:22.21 | robbiethe1st | What about the C standard libs? |
| 02:22.26 | robbiethe1st | etc? |
| 02:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-08-07 Fri 04:20:23] <DocScrutinizer05> this might differ for any libs you use |
| 02:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why libs often are under LGPL |
| 02:28.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually LGPL wouldn't make any sense when the compiler you need to use to use the libs was inheriting its GPL to the binaries it builds |
| 02:28.21 | recharged | oh wow, I just reread what svetlana copy-pasta'd earlier. the gnu c library is LGPL, I thought it said compiler. |
| 02:28.27 | recharged | the compiler is GPL. |
| 02:36.46 | *** join/#maemo Vajb (~Vajb@85-76-113-64-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 02:37.36 | robbiethe1st | That makes sense |
| 02:38.47 | recharged | the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is how to compile GCC if it's written in C++ |
| 02:40.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | recharged: I honestly doubt you can't get the right working 32bit libusb for flasher-3.5 |
| 02:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck, it works on distros as young as 1 year (haven't checked newer one yet) |
| 02:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not like usually they'd break backward compatibility for newer builds of a library. If they do, they are mandated to change the lib name too. e.g. from libfoo to libfoo2 |
| 02:43.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus you could even install different versions of a lib in parallel |
| 02:44.22 | recharged | it is under a different name. libusb-0.1-4, while flasher-3.5 requires libusb-0.1 |
| 02:44.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the name is libusb-0 in that case |
| 02:45.02 | recharged | ? |
| 02:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html |
| 02:46.45 | recharged | then I don't know why it doesn't work, but it doesn't. |
| 02:49.03 | recharged | this is what it prints when I try to run it: ./flasher-3.5: error while loading shared libraries: libusb-0.1.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 02:49.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xy |
| 02:49.14 | infobot | xy is probably The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal |
| 02:50.15 | recharged | are you telling me to describe what actions I took to get to that error? |
| 02:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | this error means there's no libusb-0.1.so.4 in your library path |
| 02:50.42 | recharged | exactly what I've been saying |
| 02:51.20 | recharged | it's not available in debian sid. |
| 02:52.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/3fcd8bc604 |
| 02:55.16 | recharged | http://privatepaste.com/36fb340f2f |
| 02:56.32 | recharged | I'm not sure what to do with this data. |
| 03:00.02 | robbiethe1st | Symlink your version of libusb-0.1.so to libusb-0.1.so.4 and see what happens |
| 03:00.07 | robbiethe1st | It may or may not work. |
| 03:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | my /usr/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4 is a symlink pointing to libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 |
| 03:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I have 32 and 64bit libs of same name |
| 03:01.39 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@unaffiliated/lxp) |
| 03:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | most likely you didn't install the lib correctly |
| 03:02.02 | recharged | doesn't seem to work. |
| 03:02.17 | recharged | how else should I have installed it? should I compile it? |
| 03:04.08 | recharged | but I may have symlinked improperly |
| 03:04.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | please ask in the support channels of your linux distribution. The way and pathnames libs are installed and integrated into system differs |
| 03:05.15 | recharged | I'll do that, thanks. |
| 03:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | your pathnames might be different than my stuff in http://privatepaste.com/3fcd8bc604 |
| 03:06.30 | recharged | which distribution do you use? |
| 03:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | opensuse |
| 03:07.00 | recharged | oh, then most likely, yeah. |
| 03:09.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see `man ldconfig` |
| 03:09.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | a common mistake to not call that binary |
| 03:10.43 | recharged | this stuff is way above my paygrade |
| 03:11.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | your package manager should usually call it when installing the lib pkg afaik |
| 03:12.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | glares at Nokia for not statically binding flasher-3.5 |
| 03:13.15 | recharged | I still don't understand why they don't just release the source of it. if they're abandoning the n900 and maemo, they might as well. |
| 03:13.17 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Without scrolling up through all the techtalk, why do ya'll care so much bout rebuilding/rev-engineering the flasher? |
| 03:13.23 | stryngs | Also... |
| 03:13.32 | stryngs | Has anyone ever thought to give the CEO a phonecall and just ask? |
| 03:13.39 | stryngs | Just sayin. |
| 03:13.42 | stryngs | Hell, I'll do it. |
| 03:13.46 | stryngs | Tell me what to ask for |
| 03:13.50 | stryngs | I've got a silver tongue |
| 03:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | threre's no more CEO to ask |
| 03:14.04 | stryngs | There is someone, right? |
| 03:14.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody |
| 03:14.16 | stryngs | I can call Bill if ya need |
| 03:14.34 | stryngs | So who would have access to what you need DocScrutinizer05 ? |
| 03:14.38 | stryngs | I'd love to be able to help out |
| 03:14.46 | stryngs | Just tell me what you want |
| 03:14.50 | stryngs | I'm serious too |
| 03:14.55 | stryngs | Not trying to be funny hahah |
| 03:15.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly afaik there is nobody anymore who could publish any maemo code. The code probably is lost |
| 03:15.52 | stryngs | So.... What is it you want DocScrutinizer05 ? |
| 03:15.59 | stryngs | Give me details; let me work through my contacts |
| 03:16.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed |
| 03:16.11 | infobot | somebody said closed was http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 03:16.14 | stryngs | I didn't establish ethicalreporting.org without the concept that I keep friends in high places when I do whitepapers. |
| 03:16.49 | recharged | that's really sad that they'd just delete all of the source code |
| 03:17.05 | stryngs | I'm betting it's not deleted recharged |
| 03:17.11 | stryngs | Again, what do we need? |
| 03:17.19 | stryngs | Sometimes, all you have to do, is just ask. |
| 03:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | this has been tried for ~4 years now. And for all I can tell the last opportunity to get any code released closed ~1 year or longer ago. Now the code is no more, even when you would find somebody willing to release it, they couldn't |
| 03:18.07 | stryngs | So you want maemo source code. |
| 03:21.22 | recharged | I've tried what you're wanting to do with other companies. they won't give up anything, even for small, unmaintained software. source code is very important to them, so they can keep "muh proprietary trade secrets" |
| 03:21.46 | stryngs | You're not me recharged =) |
| 03:21.59 | stryngs | I do whitehatting, so I've managed to make "friends" |
| 03:22.27 | recharged | I doubt anyone could persuade microsoft. |
| 03:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | much of maemo been done by subcontractors for Nokia and Nokia doesn't even have the right to publish it |
| 03:22.58 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 03:23.01 | stryngs | Yes? |
| 03:23.04 | stryngs | Source for those two files? |
| 03:23.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and they don't know which code been done by whom under which license, and they have no budget to pay lawyers to check all that stuff and negotiate with colabora et al about disclosing sourcecodes |
| 03:24.17 | stryngs | Lawyers, legal and all aside |
| 03:24.27 | stryngs | Would the source for those two files accomplish something good for the n900? |
| 03:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | stryngs: forget it! on that level you won't get anywhere. RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin even contained commercial songs and videos |
| 03:25.10 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I get where your going my friend, I get it =)... Just tell me, would that help? |
| 03:26.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, basically "the source for RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" is most of the stuff we need, and sorry the media was in VANILLA |
| 03:26.09 | stryngs | Ok |
| 03:26.22 | stryngs | Let me see what I can do. No promises, but it doesn't hurt to try. |
| 03:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically VANILLA is nonsense, not really important |
| 03:26.47 | recharged | what all is in vanilla? |
| 03:26.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 03:26.58 | infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh |
| 03:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | VANILLA is data |
| 03:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | COMBINED is code |
| 03:27.48 | recharged | alright, gotcha. |
| 03:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | however note that most of the code in COMBINED already is published and FOSS. Refer to: |
| 03:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed |
| 03:29.42 | infobot | methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 03:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | flasher-3.5 however is NOT in combined, neither vanilla |
| 03:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | stryngs: please don't quote the bot about ~flashing |
| 03:31.38 | stryngs | No worries, I just want to know what you need. |
| 03:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | refer directly to http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 03:31.51 | stryngs | If I can provide something to the community, then I have fulfilled my role |
| 03:38.05 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: |
| 03:38.06 | stryngs | Ari Jaaksi |
| 03:38.09 | stryngs | ^ |
| 03:38.15 | stryngs | That's where the breadcrumbs begin =) |
| 03:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | SOUNDS GOOD |
| 03:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry capslock |
| 03:39.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | they all will tell you they no longer have access to any sources |
| 03:40.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | but sure, trying won't hurt I guess |
| 03:40.57 | recharged | has anyone in this channel worked for nokia? |
| 03:41.12 | stryngs | One thing I've learned, about the higher ups in society... They put on their pants everyday, just like you and I... One leg at a time. At the end of the day, people are pretty cool. |
| 03:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno who of them is still around |
| 03:41.43 | stryngs | Also, the human side of things; if I created the n900 source code, I'd damn sure keep a copy. |
| 03:42.03 | stryngs | Take yourself DocScrutinizer05, I guarentee you have work you're proud of, backed up. |
| 03:42.10 | recharged | what about anyone in jolla? aren't they from nokia? |
| 03:42.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | they didn't since at no times a single person had access to everything afaik |
| 03:42.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | recharged: yes |
| 03:42.37 | stryngs | We shall certainly find out |
| 03:43.08 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-43-5.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
| 03:43.16 | recharged | do you think they have anything? |
| 03:43.31 | recharged | although, if they do, I'd doubt they'd want to go through any legal troubles. |
| 03:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's a serious concern with all that |
| 03:44.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody is *allowed* to publish the sources, and probably nobody has a copy |
| 03:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for every single binary those who once hat a saying in this and think they still do (if any such person exists), will have to go through every single binary and check if they actually are the copyright owner |
| 03:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/hat/had/ |
| 03:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | as already mentioned lots of that stuff were done by subcontractors and neither Nokia nor the subcontractor holds sufficient rights to publish the sources, as I understood what 'they' told me |
| 03:48.37 | Oksana | One small question: where can source code for osso-rss-feed-reader, latest version, be found? It's apparently open-source, but I can see only older version: https://hsivonen.fi/maemo-src/ Maemo repository seems to have only "binary", not the source code /everybody welcome to check and search/ |
| 03:48.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | so Nokia and e.g. Colabora would need to negotiate if Nokia (or Colabora) may publish the sources for XY. Then again same procedure for XZ |
| 03:49.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | osso is core nokia stuff |
| 03:50.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 03:50.57 | Oksana | And osso-rss-feed-reader is not closed: https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages and there is open-source of an earlier version of it: https://hsivonen.fi/maemo-src/ |
| 03:50.59 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: The good thing, Ari is in San Fran |
| 03:51.04 | stryngs | So he's a phone call away for me |
| 03:51.08 | stryngs | Versus yourself |
| 03:51.14 | stryngs | Long long long distance and all |
| 03:51.21 | stryngs | It costs me nothing to have a protracted call with him |
| 03:55.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=osso-rss-feed-reader&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same |
| 03:57.42 | Oksana | Member of Jolla's Board, former head of Nokia's MeeGo division... Fascinating. | Actually, there is even open-source for an old version of Osso-rss-feed-reader-list , while the latest version is considered closed-source... | So? It gives binary.deb? It's not source code, right? |
| 03:58.45 | Oksana | Ah, thank you!!! It's obscure: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_sdk_free_source/osso-rss-feed-reader/1.8.03-3+0m5/ But it is here |
| 04:00.03 | Oksana | got it through Package events; Releases did not have proper link at all, and I did check all five of them |
| 04:03.06 | Oksana | Still, it's not latest version. Have to dig more. Yes, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/o/osso-rss-feed-reader/osso-rss-feed-reader_1.8.22-2%2b0m5.tar.gz |
| 04:03.21 | recharged | okay, so a quick question: if a software is around for 95 years, will it become public domain after that? |
| 04:04.31 | svetlana | Depends on whether anyone inherited rights to it, I think. |
| 04:05.25 | *** join/#maemo Roth (~quassel@2601:18c:c700:f254:b128:ff35:59:c81f) |
| 04:05.55 | recharged | would the source code then have to be released if they didn't? |
| 04:06.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ https://gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/ohm/source/a683b973722553fce95f260e4829ce4decb26d3e:ohmd |
| 04:07.32 | Oksana | If source code exists and was published, then yes (like a book). If it exists and wasn't published (like personal diary), don't know, maybe. If it doesn't exist, no, you would get public domain binary. |
| 04:08.24 | recharged | well that sucks. there needs to be better laws regarding software. |
| 04:12.51 | Oksana | Well, it's like forcing book publishers to store their typesetting information (TeX, or whatever) for centuries, to release it into public domain. Reverse-engineering and OCR are basically the same. |
| 04:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | excellent example |
| 04:27.00 | *** join/#maemo recharged_ (~recharged@d192-24-55-33.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:30.46 | ZetaR | recharged: In the USA, at least, copyright length is currently 70 years + life of author, or 120 years for a work for hire. However, it has been retroactively extended multiple times in the past (often speculated that it was to keep Micky Mouse and other Disney works in copyright, due to Disney's driving lobby effort). |
| 04:31.37 | recharged_ | copyright laws are so ridiculous. |
| 04:32.19 | ZetaR | For all countries that agreed to the Berne Convention, copyright length must be at least 50 years + life of author. |
| 04:32.59 | Oksana | Well, I am glad that Three Musketeers are in public domain. |
| 04:33.00 | ZetaR | (and that is pretty much all countries actually in a position to enforce copyright) |
| 04:33.27 | recharged_ | I want to move to a country which doesn't enforce copyright laws. |
| 04:34.03 | *** join/#maemo recharged_ (~recharged@d192-24-55-33.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:34.06 | Oksana | recharged_: Odds are, you are already in it. Internet is miraculous for finding anything. |
| 04:35.02 | Oksana | Though, I would not recommend trying to sell DVDs with pirated movies from 2015 written on them. |
| 04:35.22 | *** join/#maemo recharged (~recharged@d192-24-55-33.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:35.26 | Oksana | Though in some countries even that happens. |
| 04:36.05 | ZetaR | recharged: Then you would most likely be moving to: A) a country with a dictatorial government that is considered rogue by most of the worlds nations, B) a country that is so poor or war-torn that their government cant enforce copyright anyway. |
| 04:36.33 | recharged | I live in the US, so copyright laws are very strict here. sorry, I realized that I was running three instances of hexchat. |
| 04:36.42 | recharged | does vietnam enforce copyright law? |
| 04:37.22 | recharged | seems like it does. |
| 04:37.31 | ZetaR | Yes. |
| 04:37.38 | ZetaR | According to a quick search anyway. |
| 04:38.05 | ZetaR | You know what is really disgusting about copyright law? Take a look at this: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/03/30/infinite_copyright_is_killing_culture.html |
| 04:38.48 | *** join/#maemo KotCzarny (~ariel@afar206.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 04:39.39 | recharged | that's ridiculous. |
| 04:40.26 | recharged | what a free society we live in |
| 04:40.56 | ZetaR | Almost all of that huge dip is probably orphaned works: things that have no apparent or documented holder, and yet there is no recourse to republish them since the law considers there to always be a copyright holder, and they can just pop up and sue you for huge sums. |
| 04:41.13 | stryngs | The problem? |
| 04:41.20 | stryngs | Lawyers don't have the balls to fight back. |
| 04:42.32 | recharged | do _you_ want to get into that kind of fight? |
| 04:42.35 | ZetaR | A lot of lawyers aren't very nice people, and most of the ones that are can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. |
| 04:43.16 | ZetaR | Regardless, there is really nobody in the position to do anything, anywhere in the world. It is stacked up specifically to prevent repeal. |
| 04:44.11 | ZetaR | If one country tries to roll back copyright length to pre-Berne Convention lengths, they will find that they are in a quagmire of treaty violations and furious lobbyists. |
| 04:44.44 | ZetaR | And that is assuming that a whole government can actually agree on doing so. |
| 04:45.38 | recharged | this is why we need copyleft |
| 04:45.45 | ZetaR | Probably the only way to get rid of it would be for a country to commit itself to being isolationist. |
| 04:45.48 | ZetaR | Yes, exactly. |
| 04:46.57 | Oksana | Well, if they just put it to be bare Berne minimum, it would already be something. |
| 04:48.54 | ZetaR | It would be a very slight improvement, but not much. |
| 04:50.43 | ZetaR | IMO, the driving force behind social and political change is the development of infrastructure (social, technical, or economic). If you drive the development of infrastructure through FLOSS, then you will have very positive effects indirectly. |
| 04:51.09 | ZetaR | Like the Internet has been, for example. |
| 04:53.11 | ZetaR | Projects like Fremantle or the Neo900 might seem small, but they are the building blocks of future development. Like Openmoko was for the Neo900. |
| 04:54.51 | ZetaR | Sorry for the OT political rant. :) |
| 04:55.26 | recharged | the free software movement is probably the best thing I've considered myself a part of my entire life. you really do see a difference. |
| 04:56.30 | Oksana | What's the best RSS feed reader on maemo 5 currently is? /Trying to persuade somebody else to fix bugs in osso-rss-feed-reader by showing how frustrating competition is/ |
| 04:58.03 | recharged | I always liked resistance and feeding-it. |
| 04:58.19 | recharged | but they both had different options I liked that the other didn't have. |
| 04:59.11 | Oksana | is installing feedingit feedcircuit feedhandler ... Thank you for resistance, will try it too |
| 05:00.33 | *** join/#maemo sparetire_ (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 05:16.00 | KotCzarny | recharged: if you cant remove anything on any particular os it always means corruption and most likely partition was remounted read only because of errors |
| 05:16.17 | KotCzarny | which also resulted in inability to install things |
| 05:16.38 | KotCzarny | check dmesg and mount |
| 05:18.02 | recharged | what should I be looking for in those? |
| 05:18.18 | KotCzarny | dmesg -s 999999|grep -i error |
| 05:18.23 | KotCzarny | for a quickie |
| 05:18.39 | KotCzarny | mount |grep ro |
| 05:19.04 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper-PC (~honoo-pc@115.132.91.239) |
| 05:20.10 | recharged | nothing in dmesg, but a few things show up in the mount one |
| 05:20.26 | recharged | should I copy them to pastebin? |
| 05:20.42 | KotCzarny | mount |grep ro|grep -v /proc |
| 05:20.45 | KotCzarny | this one |
| 05:21.25 | recharged | alright |
| 05:24.53 | recharged | http://pastebin.com/FZ94SSNf |
| 05:25.24 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 05:25.49 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:25.51 | KotCzarny | rodir? |
| 05:26.17 | recharged | not sure what it means. |
| 05:26.27 | recharged | read only directory? |
| 05:26.32 | KotCzarny | googling |
| 05:27.22 | KotCzarny | but i have the same for that mountpoint so its not that |
| 05:28.00 | KotCzarny | where did you get that error with writing? |
| 05:28.20 | recharged | ? |
| 05:29.14 | KotCzarny | rm: cannot stat '/opt/pymaemo/bak.GfbLYc/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/zenmapCore/DelayedObject.pyc': Input/output error |
| 05:29.17 | KotCzarny | right |
| 05:30.01 | recharged | is that from earlier? |
| 05:30.34 | Oksana | Yes, from failed installation of fmms |
| 05:31.22 | recharged | that's what I thought. now I need more clarification on the question. |
| 05:31.31 | KotCzarny | try rm now |
| 05:31.36 | KotCzarny | then dmesg |
| 05:32.10 | recharged | just type rm, or try to delete something? |
| 05:32.27 | KotCzarny | well |
| 05:32.31 | KotCzarny | even ls could fail |
| 05:32.39 | KotCzarny | so: ls /opt/pymaemo/bak.GfbLYc/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/zenmapCore/DelayedObject.pyc |
| 05:33.11 | KotCzarny | maybe your emmc is dying |
| 05:34.24 | recharged | after I do that, do you want the full dmesg or the one you wanted me to type earlier? |
| 05:34.59 | KotCzarny | for easy time: dmesg |curl --upload-file - http://transfer.sh |
| 05:35.09 | KotCzarny | assuming you have curl installed |
| 05:35.30 | recharged | it's not, sadly. |
| 05:37.11 | *** join/#maemo bencoh (~bencoh@mil75-1-78-192-65-63.fbxo.proxad.net) |
| 05:40.31 | recharged | http://pastebin.com/thxU5g3R |
| 05:40.34 | recharged | I just did this |
| 05:40.54 | recharged | if you want more, I can get more (but xterm cuts off a lot from dmesg) |
| 05:40.56 | KotCzarny | um |
| 05:41.02 | KotCzarny | can you do it from normal term? |
| 05:41.05 | KotCzarny | without chrrot? |
| 05:41.08 | KotCzarny | chroot |
| 05:41.23 | recharged | how? |
| 05:41.28 | recharged | my xterm has always been in a chroot |
| 05:41.31 | KotCzarny | try /bin/ls instead of ls |
| 05:41.57 | KotCzarny | (this wont free chroot but will free you of aliases) |
| 05:42.34 | recharged | it says input/output error |
| 05:42.38 | recharged | should I get the dmesg? |
| 05:42.41 | KotCzarny | sure |
| 05:43.44 | recharged | when I do the one you sent me, nothing is shown. the dmesg -s 999999 one. what should I do instead? |
| 05:43.54 | KotCzarny | just dmesg |
| 05:44.05 | recharged | how do I get all of it? |
| 05:44.32 | KotCzarny | dmesg > some-file.txt |
| 05:44.44 | recharged | that's what I thought, thanks |
| 05:47.41 | recharged | http://pastebin.com/m5HbcnqZ |
| 05:47.51 | recharged | I don't know what you'll get from this, though |
| 05:48.10 | KotCzarny | [18286.811706] FAT: Corrupted directory (i_pos 442939) |
| 05:48.24 | KotCzarny | you need to fix your emmc |
| 05:48.34 | recharged | oh wow |
| 05:48.36 | recharged | how? |
| 05:48.38 | KotCzarny | fsck |
| 05:48.39 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:48.51 | KotCzarny | i think rescueos has fsck |
| 05:48.53 | recharged | what should I fsck? |
| 05:48.59 | KotCzarny | and dont try to run it on a live fs! |
| 05:49.06 | KotCzarny | or you make things worse |
| 05:49.07 | recharged | can I do it from my pc? |
| 05:49.25 | KotCzarny | also, if you have anything valuable there, backup first |
| 05:49.49 | recharged | everything is mostly backed up, but I'm gonna do a system backup |
| 05:49.56 | KotCzarny | http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/rescueOS-1.2/ |
| 05:50.01 | KotCzarny | http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/rescueOS-1.2/documentation.txt |
| 05:50.48 | recharged | is it safe to make a backup to the emmc or should I find a microsd to save it to? |
| 05:51.05 | KotCzarny | you will be fscking emmc |
| 05:51.07 | KotCzarny | :P |
| 05:51.14 | KotCzarny | so its the other way round |
| 05:51.40 | recharged | I mean, can I make a backup and save it there then move it to my desktop? |
| 05:54.50 | recharged | backup error occurred. what do I do now? go without backing up? |
| 05:56.05 | KotCzarny | depends how attached you are to data in /home and /opt |
| 05:56.20 | KotCzarny | could be safe, could erase most of it |
| 05:56.39 | recharged | I'll try again with a microsd |
| 05:57.25 | recharged | after this, should everything go back to normal? |
| 05:57.30 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 05:57.31 | KotCzarny | almost |
| 05:57.38 | recharged | almost? |
| 05:57.41 | KotCzarny | you will have to fix those packages that didnt install correctly |
| 05:57.50 | KotCzarny | but its easy |
| 05:57.55 | recharged | okay, good |
| 05:58.44 | recharged | it's backing up to the microsd |
| 06:04.56 | recharged | okay, so now that I'm in rescueos, do I just fsck mydocs? |
| 06:05.01 | recharged | or everything? |
| 06:05.11 | KotCzarny | fsck /dev/mmcblk0p2 probably |
| 06:05.46 | KotCzarny | um |
| 06:05.48 | KotCzarny | p1 |
| 06:05.57 | KotCzarny | but you can fsck both |
| 06:08.15 | recharged | fsc.auto: No such file or directory |
| 06:08.19 | kerio | don't |
| 06:08.24 | kerio | it's silly |
| 06:08.30 | kerio | just tar, mkfs and untar |
| 06:08.35 | recharged | ? |
| 06:08.38 | KotCzarny | he has vfat corrupted |
| 06:08.47 | kerio | oh |
| 06:08.58 | kerio | attach to a computer and fix it from there |
| 06:09.00 | KotCzarny | so he cant even rm that dir |
| 06:09.19 | KotCzarny | recharged: try: dosfsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 06:09.47 | recharged | logical sector size is zero |
| 06:10.01 | kerio | that's not an issue i think |
| 06:10.11 | kerio | ...wait |
| 06:10.18 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-42-96.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 06:12.15 | kerio | how did you even mount that: |
| 06:12.26 | recharged | mount what? |
| 06:12.58 | KotCzarny | he means, maemo shouldnt boot |
| 06:13.24 | recharged | so my device shouldn't be working right now? |
| 06:16.45 | recharged | i just tried it again and it worked |
| 06:16.54 | recharged | I have three options |
| 06:17.07 | recharged | copy original to backup, copy backup to original, or no action |
| 06:17.12 | recharged | which should I choose? |
| 06:18.11 | KotCzarny | unless you know what to do you can simply add -a for automatic repair |
| 06:18.48 | Oksana | dosfsck -a /dev/mmcblk0p1 ? |
| 06:18.57 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 06:19.22 | KotCzarny | in the worst case just do full flash |
| 06:21.33 | recharged | I would, but that was discussed earlier |
| 06:22.00 | KotCzarny | missed that part |
| 06:22.18 | recharged | the device was last at 28%, is there any chance of it dying while doing this? |
| 06:22.20 | recharged | it's alright |
| 06:22.36 | recharged | it seems like you have to manually charge it |
| 06:22.52 | recharged | from rescueos, I mean |
| 06:23.45 | KotCzarny | if you battery isnt ill, you should be fine |
| 06:24.06 | KotCzarny | or if you need phone, just boot maemo and charge |
| 06:24.27 | *** join/#maemo bencoh (~bencoh@unaffiliated/bencoh/x-184637) |
| 06:31.40 | *** join/#maemo drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 06:35.55 | recharged | this sure is taking awhile |
| 06:36.06 | KotCzarny | 30gigs of data |
| 06:36.22 | recharged | it is? |
| 06:36.22 | KotCzarny | and appropriate amount of structures |
| 06:36.56 | recharged | oh wait |
| 06:37.03 | recharged | because the emmc is 30gb |
| 06:37.21 | recharged | how can this little device handle all of that? |
| 06:37.36 | KotCzarny | one by one |
| 06:37.39 | KotCzarny | usually |
| 06:37.45 | KotCzarny | by rereading fat |
| 06:37.51 | recharged | what would happen if it died? |
| 06:37.59 | recharged | would it corrupt more? |
| 06:38.02 | recharged | or just stop? |
| 06:38.12 | KotCzarny | depends |
| 06:38.31 | recharged | on? |
| 06:38.50 | KotCzarny | i dont know if -a implies -w (write to disk immediately) |
| 06:39.09 | recharged | it's auto-renaming things |
| 06:39.12 | recharged | so I'd assume so |
| 06:39.47 | KotCzarny | did you disconnect it from pc without umounting first earlier? |
| 06:40.03 | KotCzarny | (in windows its called 'disconnect safely') |
| 06:40.38 | Oksana | Hopefully yes, but I don't remember which switches I used. So, if you can, keep it charging while it fsck-s. | In Linux, it's Eject or something? |
| 06:40.51 | recharged | I didn't, iirc |
| 06:40.54 | KotCzarny | oksana: he is in rescueos |
| 06:40.59 | KotCzarny | ie. one console only |
| 06:41.03 | KotCzarny | ie. no bmc |
| 06:41.21 | Oksana | no GNU screen... Alright. |
| 06:42.07 | drathir | sync before disconnect mostly helps, and umount after... |
| 06:42.20 | KotCzarny | drathir: cant sync on windoze i guess |
| 06:42.29 | KotCzarny | only way is to click that green arrow |
| 06:42.39 | drathir | linux i mean sorry.. |
| 06:43.06 | Oksana | recharged is using Linux, if I remember correctly... |
| 06:43.12 | recharged | yes |
| 06:43.28 | drathir | and yea m$ is hopeless only safe diisconnect/eject device is there... |
| 06:51.37 | KotCzarny | oksana: in linux it's umount |
| 06:52.03 | KotCzarny | once you umount partition, all dirty buffers are written back |
| 06:52.48 | KotCzarny | and eject will probably not do that before (unless it's worked around/aliased somehow on specific distros) |
| 06:57.14 | recharged | how long should this take? |
| 06:58.06 | KotCzarny | who knows, depends on count of the files and level of corruption |
| 06:58.38 | recharged | can it be finished in 12 hours? |
| 06:58.47 | KotCzarny | most likely |
| 06:59.17 | recharged | that's all that really matters |
| 06:59.38 | recharged | do you think the device is charging while in this mode if the usb cable is connected to it? |
| 06:59.45 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 06:59.56 | KotCzarny | rescueos doesnt enable automatic charging |
| 07:00.02 | recharged | why not? |
| 07:00.08 | bencoh | you need to run a script |
| 07:00.20 | recharged | I know, but I can't currently, right? |
| 07:00.23 | KotCzarny | bencoh, yeah, pity it only has one console by default |
| 07:00.46 | KotCzarny | hmm, nice idea for rescueod, telnetd |
| 07:00.47 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:00.51 | KotCzarny | and usb networking |
| 07:02.04 | bencoh | I think we already discussed that here (with N.IN101 :) |
| 07:02.31 | recharged | I feel like this is going to die far before it's finished |
| 07:02.33 | KotCzarny | worth mentioning again (till it gets implemented, he he) |
| 07:04.33 | *** join/#maemo arossdotme-planb (~zxy@79-69-196-242.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 07:06.51 | recharged | well, it died. |
| 07:09.56 | Oksana | Well, now use rescueos again, but enable charging before running fsck, and use both -a and -w , just in case fsck does not get to finish it in one go? |
| 07:10.16 | KotCzarny | oksana, rescueos has only 1 console |
| 07:10.17 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@p579DBE82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:10.34 | Oksana | So, you cannot just enable charging, and then do something else? |
| 07:10.37 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 07:10.59 | Oksana | Would 'charge.sh &&' or something put charging script into background? |
| 07:11.22 | KotCzarny | never actually charged device in ros, don't know if it need any use interaction |
| 07:11.32 | KotCzarny | and it should be single & |
| 07:11.47 | KotCzarny | otherwise next commend wont run before previous finished sucessfully |
| 07:12.17 | Oksana | In worst case, charge battery to 100%, then run dosfsck -a -w /dev/mmcblk0p1 as long as the battery allows? |
| 07:12.29 | KotCzarny | sure |
| 07:12.32 | recharged | that's what I'm doing this time |
| 07:12.35 | KotCzarny | assuming battery is quite healthy |
| 07:12.44 | recharged | I don't think it is |
| 07:13.19 | KotCzarny | anyway, gotta run |
| 07:13.23 | Oksana | has one entirely unhealthy battery which stores around 10% (20% at best) of the charge it should have stores |
| 07:13.40 | KotCzarny | remember, in the worst case you can do full reflash |
| 07:14.00 | KotCzarny | (or can be emmc be flashed without other parts?) |
| 07:14.22 | recharged | not with only 0xffff, that's my problem. |
| 07:14.31 | KotCzarny | flasher-3.5 ? |
| 07:14.43 | kerio | you don't need to flash emmc, really |
| 07:14.44 | recharged | I have issues with it regarding libs |
| 07:14.45 | Oksana | Full reflash requires flasher-3.5, which has some obscure problems (unable to find libusb or something...) | I rarely use it, since I have two Polarcell batteries which are healthy |
| 07:15.06 | KotCzarny | recharged: run some livecd ? |
| 07:15.13 | kerio | the only thing 0xffff can't do is flash the emmc |
| 07:15.21 | kerio | but you can just load rescueos and mkfs manually |
| 07:15.29 | KotCzarny | kerio: what about file structure? |
| 07:15.30 | kerio | you also get to choose your partition sizes that way |
| 07:15.33 | recharged | I might try that. |
| 07:15.41 | kerio | KotCzarny: the vfat directories... eeh |
| 07:15.48 | kerio | i think they're created by something at some point |
| 07:15.49 | KotCzarny | you need at least user home dir |
| 07:16.00 | KotCzarny | and opt |
| 07:16.03 | kerio | the stuff in /home gets completely wiped and copied on first boot |
| 07:16.07 | kerio | it's not in VANILLA |
| 07:16.22 | kerio | it's the reason you can't flash VANILLA without also flashing COMBINED |
| 07:16.43 | kerio | in the rootfs of COMBINED there's a file that signals that on first boot, /home has to be cleaned and rebuilt |
| 07:16.43 | KotCzarny | recharged: while n900 is charging, you can grab some 32bit livecd |
| 07:17.06 | KotCzarny | preferably some older one (2009-2011 era) so it will use similar libs as flasher-3.5 |
| 07:17.08 | kerio | first partition vfat, second partition ext3, third partition swap? |
| 07:17.13 | kerio | i don't remember |
| 07:17.20 | KotCzarny | kerio, he only needs vfat fixed afaik |
| 07:17.30 | KotCzarny | anyway, im out |
| 07:17.42 | recharged | I'll look for an old *buntu iso |
| 07:17.44 | recharged | see yah |
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| 07:25.39 | drathir | Oksana: also depend on filesystem linux make sync time to time, and only buffered not writed data get lose... |
| 07:27.52 | drathir | chargin isnt controled by onboard chip+battery chip for control lvl of charge? |
| 07:29.05 | drathir | also if linux see device You can fsck from pc, but i guess its less reccomend... |
| 07:29.09 | bencoh | charge.sh 2>/dev/null >/dev/null & works |
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| 07:37.39 | kerio | i still can't believe that nokia released a device on which copying a big file causes a reboot |
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| 07:58.40 | bencoh | kerio: ? |
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| 08:53.38 | KotCzarny | yeah, fsck on windows could work too |
| 08:54.35 | kerio | bencoh: queue gets full, n900 becomes completely irresponsive, watchdog bites |
| 08:55.01 | KotCzarny | bad watchdog, bad! sit! |
| 08:55.29 | kerio | it bites unless you pet it |
| 08:55.39 | kerio | every 30 seconds |
| 08:55.50 | KotCzarny | attention bitch |
| 08:55.52 | kerio | tickle? |
| 08:55.56 | kerio | kick? |
| 08:56.01 | kerio | what's the correct verb? |
| 08:56.04 | KotCzarny | poke |
| 08:56.37 | kerio | don't poke the watchdog! D: |
| 08:56.41 | kerio | poor watchdoggy |
| 08:56.48 | KotCzarny | poke with a stick |
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| 10:12.54 | ShadowJK | Asus did the same with a few android tablets |
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| 11:35.39 | Vajb | what you think? Will n900 die with 512gb sd card. |
| 11:36.07 | KotCzarny | huh? |
| 11:36.23 | KotCzarny | like in 'reboot'? |
| 11:36.52 | KotCzarny | maybe it runs out of mem |
| 11:40.33 | Vajb | just guessing will it work |
| 11:40.47 | KotCzarny | most likely |
| 11:40.48 | Vajb | or do those cards need some more power etc... |
| 11:41.36 | Vajb | i just realised that they are available with reasonable price |
| 11:41.45 | KotCzarny | there are cards with specific voltages required |
| 11:42.11 | Vajb | also saw 1tb usb stick. Would be perfect for saving programs from tv. |
| 11:42.22 | KotCzarny | usb sucks power |
| 11:42.57 | Vajb | but if it's not stated otherwise, I guess those cards are pretty much standardized. |
| 11:43.36 | Vajb | but if i hook such stick with tv, I guess it doesn't matter. |
| 11:43.52 | Vajb | sorry speaking of two things at once... |
| 11:45.35 | KotCzarny | but i think vfat on 512G will eat quite a hunk of mem |
| 11:46.18 | Vajb | hmm no idea about that |
| 11:46.25 | KotCzarny | fat is old |
| 11:47.08 | Vajb | yes, that i know |
| 11:47.21 | KotCzarny | and prone to corruption |
| 11:47.28 | Vajb | now i have 32gb card and it works fine so far |
| 11:47.55 | svetlana | My laptop specs are approaching that of a modern smartphone (again). :D |
| 11:48.43 | KotCzarny | for most needs, 1.6-2.2G dual core cpu, 2G of ram and ssd drive is more than enough |
| 11:48.43 | Vajb | well don't be sorry. My desktop is already ancient history :D |
| 11:48.55 | svetlana | isn't :) |
| 11:49.33 | Vajb | i have 1,3ghz tb with 700 something mb of memory |
| 11:49.46 | KotCzarny | little burner |
| 11:50.08 | KotCzarny | just grab old thinkpad x4[01]/x6[01] |
| 11:50.23 | Vajb | but with 512gb card i could store all my stuff in phone (and lose all at once haha) |
| 11:50.31 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 11:50.34 | KotCzarny | true, that |
| 11:50.44 | KotCzarny | keep backups and rsync occasionally |
| 11:51.06 | KotCzarny | maximum size of FAT32 is 512GB per partition |
| 11:51.50 | Vajb | is maemo treating it as fat or fat32 or does it even matter? |
| 11:52.05 | KotCzarny | no one uses fat16 these days i think |
| 11:52.12 | KotCzarny | and even fat32 is phasing out |
| 11:52.29 | KotCzarny | scratch that |
| 11:52.32 | KotCzarny | 2TB is the limit |
| 11:52.38 | KotCzarny | with 512b sector size |
| 11:53.02 | KotCzarny | but max file size is 2/4GB |
| 11:53.09 | Vajb | is 2gb maximum file size still there? |
| 11:53.10 | KotCzarny | so forget about isos/rips |
| 11:53.38 | Vajb | ah well most of my stuff is just mp3 libs |
| 11:53.54 | Vajb | well not libs but music... |
| 11:54.03 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 11:54.17 | KotCzarny | consider using oscp, or trackerd will eat you |
| 11:55.12 | Vajb | i thought it tracks once and if nothing changes, leave me be |
| 11:57.04 | KotCzarny | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90275 |
| 11:57.11 | KotCzarny | apparently it rescans on every boot |
| 11:58.06 | Vajb | oh |
| 11:58.24 | Vajb | although i only boot when i need to calibrate battery |
| 11:58.24 | KotCzarny | could be some bug or specific device breakage |
| 11:58.42 | KotCzarny | anyway, consider using cluster size bigger than usual |
| 11:58.52 | KotCzarny | if you plan to store big files |
| 11:58.53 | Vajb | so when booted it will be hooked with battery |
| 11:58.56 | KotCzarny | 16-64k |
| 11:59.31 | Vajb | nah nothing bigger than few mb's |
| 11:59.40 | KotCzarny | still |
| 11:59.45 | KotCzarny | it will make FAT smaller |
| 11:59.46 | Vajb | might have few flac's tho |
| 12:00.05 | KotCzarny | big files == anything bigger than few tens of cluster sizes |
| 12:00.40 | Vajb | you are sailing way over my head right now KotCzarny :D |
| 12:01.02 | KotCzarny | in short, anything bigger than 128k |
| 12:01.03 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 12:02.31 | Vajb | ok |
| 12:02.46 | Vajb | and when formatting i can change cluster size? |
| 12:02.51 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 12:03.07 | Vajb | so should one use biggest alternative option? |
| 12:03.14 | KotCzarny | if you dont like cmd line tools, you can do it from pc too |
| 12:03.16 | Vajb | or are there some draw backs? |
| 12:03.30 | KotCzarny | only draw back is lost space |
| 12:03.43 | KotCzarny | because even 1 byte file will take 1 cluster size |
| 12:03.56 | KotCzarny | so if you plan to unpack kernel there or something, its not a good idea |
| 12:04.00 | Vajb | well with 512 i thing i would have few gigs to spare :p |
| 12:04.10 | KotCzarny | but if you mostly keep music/vids there, then it doesnt matter |
| 12:04.29 | Vajb | oh now i think i understand |
| 12:04.30 | KotCzarny | 16 or 32kB will be the best |
| 12:04.44 | KotCzarny | 64kB can be unsupported in places |
| 12:05.03 | Vajb | one cluster is minimum take no matter file size? |
| 12:05.08 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 12:05.19 | KotCzarny | and multiplies |
| 12:05.21 | Vajb | if it's less than cluster obviously |
| 12:05.43 | KotCzarny | so with 16kB cluster, 17kB file will take 32kB |
| 12:05.45 | KotCzarny | etc |
| 12:05.58 | Vajb | so if i have like 1mb cluster and file is 2,01 it will take three? |
| 12:06.09 | KotCzarny | max cluster is 32kB |
| 12:06.16 | Vajb | oh lol |
| 12:06.16 | KotCzarny | (and sometimes 64kB) |
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| 12:08.20 | Vajb | hmm i think going with 32kb would be my best option |
| 12:08.53 | KotCzarny | another thing to consider is read-ahead |
| 12:08.54 | Vajb | and now i just realized how come there was so big difference in map tile size and file taken fom disk |
| 12:09.11 | Vajb | all life is learning. True that, thx :) |
| 12:09.52 | KotCzarny | because if file is fragmented or accessed randomly in little parts, whole 128kB gets read every time |
| 12:10.20 | KotCzarny | though, bigger cluster size means lower fragmentation anyway |
| 12:10.46 | Vajb | or fragments are bigger |
| 12:11.03 | Vajb | it's like hardened glass, sort of |
| 12:11.04 | KotCzarny | bigger fragments == lower chance of bad fragmentation |
| 12:11.17 | Vajb | yes |
| 12:11.36 | KotCzarny | you can check how device will behave even now, if you have any sd card |
| 12:11.37 | Vajb | 10 piece puzzle is easier to make than 1000 |
| 12:12.05 | Vajb | i have 32, but it's closing to be full |
| 12:13.02 | KotCzarny | it would be interesting if bigger cluster size makes accessing sd card faster and less memory hungry |
| 12:15.06 | Vajb | are you speaking about devices ram or what? |
| 12:15.11 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 12:15.27 | KotCzarny | don't know how linux vfat driver behaves |
| 12:15.42 | KotCzarny | but on windows it loads big chunk of FAT into memory and keeps it there |
| 12:16.04 | Vajb | never thought that card size could impact in ram |
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| 16:37.33 | recharged | starting fsck again |
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