| 00:00.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | RAM limitation is a problem, yes. But not as bad as you might think, when you don't use ram greedy apps |
| 00:00.28 | Ianus | i agree there |
| 00:00.45 | Luke-Jr | I actually got qtwebkit to link on N900 the other day |
| 00:00.53 | Luke-Jr | had to kill most of Maemo, but it finally finished.. |
| 00:01.18 | Ianus | lol, Im currently looking for a way to kickstart some new tools |
| 00:01.43 | Luke-Jr | nuts, forgot to ask Pali why fcam wasn't included in power kernel |
| 00:01.52 | Ianus | theres a few PSK tools im after they compile on arch linux nice and debian but i cant seem to get it compiling for n900 |
| 00:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: hm? |
| 00:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think fcam is no (has no) kernel module |
| 00:03.43 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: last time I checked (2010?), fcam required kernel patches; I didn't see those in the current power kernel, so I was curious |
| 00:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think fcam ever required kernel patches |
| 00:04.23 | Luke-Jr | eh, I have: http://codepad.org/K3Jod569 |
| 00:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | it requires a driver that matches the kernel afaik |
| 00:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'm pretty sure fcam didn't flash a new kernel back when I installed it |
| 00:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm ok, it has kernel *modules*. I stand corrected. Actually a valid question why those are not bundled with KP |
| 00:08.13 | Ianus | brb just reinstalled so my tmux isnt setup right |
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| 00:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: it's in fact a very "good" example how to mess up stuff by not properly implementing dependencies |
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| 00:13.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recall you had to uninstall *all* camera stuff (except the stock camera that prolly has no dependencies at all since it gets handled by MP depends), after each kernel update |
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| 00:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | just to allow updating of the kernel module from fcam |
| 00:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh hi svetlana :-) |
| 00:17.05 | svetlana | Hello. :-) |
| 00:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: where from comes that fcam kernel module? |
| 00:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | couldn't apt get convinced to re-update it as soon as anything $kernel gets touched? |
| 00:25.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no apt expert here, but isn't there a thing called "hooks" or somesuch? |
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| 00:27.08 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: no idea, I just know I had patched it into fremantle-power-sources for Gentoo |
| 00:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/doc/internals/ch02.html#hooks |
| 00:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | *iirc* it was possible to make pkg-A install a hook on pkg-B that executes stuff pkg-A needs to get done whenever pkg-B gets touched by apt |
| 00:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, at *very least*, the fcam pkg could install a generic hook that gets executed every time apt (or dpkg) quits, and then that fcam tool stub could check if the fcam kernel module is still installed or not, and act accordingly |
| 00:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, I don't see why fcam kernel module doesn't ship with KP |
| 00:46.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | svetlana: :-D you're running for councilor? great! |
| 00:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders to even vote this time |
| 00:49.18 | svetlana | Yes; I am hoping to get a more thorough, both technical and not, insight into the project. Thanks to Wikiwide (Oksana) for suggesting that. |
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| 00:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 00:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the technical aspects there's a great wiki and a similarly great community. you'll love it. For the non technical aspects, it's a pity that there's no mail archive of council email at all. You'll learn to frown at many aspects of that part |
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| 06:20.24 | Hxor | hello |
| 06:21.11 | svetlana | Hi. |
| 06:21.28 | Hxor | thank you. |
| 06:22.39 | svetlana | I am new here but ...yeah, it's not quite dead here today. |
| 06:23.03 | kerio | it's pretty dead, overall |
| 06:23.24 | Hxor | more people in here than most chans |
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| 06:24.58 | svetlana | There is a channel which is ten times larger than this one. But yeah, among the maemo ones it's pretty big. |
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| 06:28.04 | Hxor | ahh cool |
| 06:31.32 | Hxor | does anyone know if its possible to download etherape on n900 |
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| 06:50.14 | Oksana | Hxor: It's not in maemo repositories. You could download it from Debian repositories, though; a package built for armel. Somewhere around https://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome/etherape , since maemo already has bonobo 2.22 packaged, and libc6 2.5 . |
| 06:50.15 | KotCzarny | hxor, yes. wget is available |
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| 09:06.28 | Sicelo | how do i switch off the LEDs? |
| 09:07.01 | Sicelo | they were switched on by USB-mode (blue), and even though i'm back on peripheral mode, still blue. i don't want to restart |
| 09:08.58 | KotCzarny | i think you can control leds via /sys/ somewhere |
| 09:09.00 | KotCzarny | ~leds |
| 09:09.04 | KotCzarny | ~led |
| 09:09.04 | infobot | hmm... led is (Light Emitting Diode) A piece of electronics that emits light when a current is passed through it. It does not work the same way as a light bulb so it does not have the problem of burning out. It also only emits a few frequencies of light so it is a specific color. |
| 09:09.46 | KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED |
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| 09:20.01 | Sicelo | looks like mce is involved .. not sure how |
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| 09:29.44 | KotCzarny | doc: can infobot do searches in wiki titles? |
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| 11:05.38 | sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: I believe so |
| 11:05.51 | sixwheeledbeast | ~wiki LED |
| 11:06.00 | KotCzarny | cool trick |
| 11:06.12 | KotCzarny | is there one for maemo wiki? |
| 11:06.19 | sixwheeledbeast | nope |
| 11:06.24 | KotCzarny | can we have one? |
| 11:06.33 | svetlana | :) |
| 11:06.51 | KotCzarny | ~google maemo led |
| 11:06.55 | KotCzarny | um |
| 11:07.04 | sixwheeledbeast | maemo's mediawiki is old and would need a lot of work to upgrade I was told. |
| 11:07.25 | svetlana | I hope the work involved is only porting the theme over. Right? |
| 11:07.41 | KotCzarny | swb: i think infobot uses custom code anyway, i even offer writing one if i know which language it runs |
| 11:08.21 | KotCzarny | svetlana: i believe mediawiki is a bit more than just a theme |
| 11:08.41 | svetlana | I was hoping it is reasonably backwards compatible but ok, ok, I see. |
| 11:09.03 | sixwheeledbeast | I am not sure, I believe new useful mediawiki modules cannot be used on our old wiki |
| 11:09.11 | sixwheeledbeast | infobot is perl |
| 11:09.27 | sixwheeledbeast | IIRC |
| 11:09.28 | KotCzarny | swb: who is the owner? doc? |
| 11:09.38 | sixwheeledbeast | owner of wiki? |
| 11:09.41 | KotCzarny | bot |
| 11:10.29 | sixwheeledbeast | :shrug: it's open source I believed, and sits on a server somewhere watching the channel. |
| 11:10.50 | sixwheeledbeast | ~w infobot |
| 11:10.50 | infobot | ACTION hold her/his/its fingers/phalanges/appendages in the form of a "w" and says "\/\/hatever infobot" |
| 11:10.57 | sixwheeledbeast | ~wiki infobot |
| 11:11.35 | svetlana | ~source |
| 11:11.35 | infobot | To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file. Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source. The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`. |
| 11:11.40 | svetlana | augh |
| 11:12.09 | svetlana | She is a guest from the Debian world :) |
| 11:12.34 | KotCzarny | nah, it just 'learns' from the channels |
| 11:12.57 | KotCzarny | ~she |
| 11:12.57 | infobot | from memory, she is not |
| 11:13.44 | sixwheeledbeast | learns from people on the channel telling it to remember factiods. |
| 11:13.52 | sixwheeledbeast | ~he |
| 11:13.52 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, he is on random worlds |
| 11:13.58 | KotCzarny | ~sixwheeledbeast |
| 11:14.10 | sixwheeledbeast | hm |
| 11:14.36 | sixwheeledbeast | ~fmg |
| 11:14.36 | infobot | fmg is, like, the greatest |
| 11:14.59 | KotCzarny | infobot: sixwheeledbeast is https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast |
| 11:14.59 | infobot | KotCzarny: okay |
| 11:15.03 | KotCzarny | ~sixwheeledbeast |
| 11:15.03 | infobot | from memory, sixwheeledbeast is https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast |
| 11:15.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:15.25 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 11:15.31 | sixwheeledbeast | ~beasttweaks |
| 11:15.31 | infobot | hmm... beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts |
| 11:15.37 | sixwheeledbeast | ;) |
| 11:15.42 | KotCzarny | add it to your wiki page |
| 11:16.00 | KotCzarny | ie. describe it a bit |
| 11:16.18 | KotCzarny | though not neccessary that much |
| 11:16.57 | KotCzarny | also, they are more hacks than scripts |
| 11:17.24 | sixwheeledbeast | I hardly get time for anything Maemo any more... I spotted your question and answered. This is my lunch break |
| 11:17.37 | KotCzarny | no worries |
| 11:17.59 | sixwheeledbeast | I agree, it started as scripts and turned into my hacks page |
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| 11:30.02 | stick_ | ~flashing |
| 11:30.02 | infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh |
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| 13:20.43 | kerio | web sysadmins: the "StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA" you're shipping in the cert chain for https://maemo.org/ is the wrong one |
| 13:21.13 | kerio | you should be using the SHA256 one from startcom |
| 13:23.38 | warfare | kerio: Whoops, thanks. |
| 13:24.55 | kerio | i think that chrome will still not complain |
| 13:24.59 | kerio | but, yknow |
| 13:25.35 | warfare | Eh, better safe than sorry. I'll fix it tonight, I'm still missing the right SSH keys on the work laptop. |
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| 19:56.16 | Luke-Jr | kicks N900 for randomly rebooting suddenly :| |
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| 20:06.56 | bencoh | poor thing |
| 20:07.25 | bencoh | Luke-Jr: heavy usbnet traffic? |
| 20:08.25 | Luke-Jr | bencoh: just SSH :/ |
| 20:08.31 | Luke-Jr | it rebooted when I left it idle overnight |
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| 20:08.49 | Luke-Jr | although I did SIGSTOP dsme and maemo-launcher.. maybe that's related |
| 20:09.09 | Luke-Jr | although the reboot this afternoon was normal Maemo runtime, during fsck of microsd |
| 20:09.12 | Luke-Jr | s/fsck/mkfs/ |
| 20:09.50 | Luke-Jr | at least mkfs completed this time.. |
| 20:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 20:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sigstop dsme might indeed not be a smart thing to do |
| 20:11.59 | kerio | rofl |
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| 20:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and depending on the way it handles renaming the process, sigstop maemo-launcher might actually stop ~50% of processes on maemo (unless I mix launcher and loader here, the one telling the other what "binary" to exec() ) |
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| 20:15.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever wondered why strace $random_maemo_app often fails massively? it simply invokes launcher which is symlinked to $random_maemo_app, which in turn sends a dbus msg to the siamese twin process that is already preloaded and simply does a exec($random_maemo_app.launch) |
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| 20:40.26 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: well, I no longer care about the Maemo processes when I do this - I just SIGSTOP them so they stop spawning crap |
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| 21:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: well, the result might well be a reboot |
| 21:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | dsme is the master watchdog process in maemo |
| 21:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | even a simple sigstop bme already suffices to reboot maemo after ~ 60s |
| 21:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | dsme, bme, and mce are quite important processes for the system |
| 21:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maemo-launcher is not really simple to even guess what might result from stopping all processes spawned/created by or through it |
| 21:14.18 | Pali | dsme is kicking HW watchdogs |
| 21:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 21:14.46 | Pali | also controls temperature, battery status, charge status and overheating |
| 21:14.53 | Pali | it should not be stopped |
| 21:15.58 | Luke-Jr | hm, dsme disappeared when I SIGCONT'd it |
| 21:16.45 | Luke-Jr | any way to restart it? :x |
| 21:16.54 | Pali | stop dsme |
| 21:16.57 | Pali | start dsme |
| 21:17.15 | Pali | dsme is controlled by our init daemon (=upstart) |
| 21:19.38 | Luke-Jr | Pali: btw, any reason fcam is not included in power kernel? |
| 21:19.56 | Pali | is not fcam just application? |
| 21:20.40 | Luke-Jr | no, it has a kernel patch too |
| 21:21.05 | Pali | I do not know about those kernel patches |
| 21:21.10 | Pali | but I'm not using fcam |
| 21:21.19 | Pali | so I do not know about it |
| 21:21.43 | Pali | and nobody sent me any fcam patches for review and including into kp |
| 21:21.56 | Pali | so that means there were also no interrest from users |
| 21:22.47 | Sicelo | ah .. and .. Pali, when you have a moment : USB Mode -- what causes the blue LED to 'refuse' to go out when you re-enable peripheral mode? i've tried switching it off via dbus, but it just comes back in less than 10 seconds |
| 21:23.55 | Pali | aha... I have 3 unpushed commits in my usbmode git from year 2013 |
| 21:24.12 | Pali | Sicelo: if you are interested for testing, please drop me email |
| 21:24.43 | Pali | maybe it will fix that problems... I do not remember... anyways now I'm going offline |
| 21:24.57 | Sicelo | i'll mail :) |
| 21:25.44 | Pali | I look at it tomorrow |
| 21:25.45 | Pali | bye |
| 21:27.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: LED is controlled by MCE pattern. |
| 21:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~phonecontrol |
| 21:27.21 | infobot | somebody said phonecontrol was http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
| 21:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Deactivate_LEDs |
| 21:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | replace PatternCommunicationIM by the name of the pattern (in /etc/mce/mce.ini) that got activated by USB mode |
| 21:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/sbin/booston |
| 21:32.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly see cleanup(){...} which gets executed by trap on all script exit (except sigkill) |
| 21:33.39 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: i used that very "deactivate" dbus call .. but it comes on again for some weird reason. something in usbmode |
| 21:34.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, unless usbmode send a new dbus activate msg, I don't see how it could do that |
| 21:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | dbus-monitor should help |
| 21:35.21 | Sicelo | nothing appears |
| 21:35.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually usbmode sending multiple activate commands would be massively buggy, they get accumulated afaik, means you need a deactivate command for each activate command that been sent |
| 21:36.04 | Sicelo | dbus-monitor --system .. unless i should have monitored one of the other buses |
| 21:36.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, systembus is correct |
| 21:36.56 | Sicelo | there's definitely a bug .. someone else also mentioned it on tmo, and i think Pali is aware of it |
| 21:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you can't deactivate it via dbus cmd, the bug would be either in your command or in mce |
| 21:37.46 | Sicelo | prolly mce then |
| 21:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, you need to use exactly the right pattern name |
| 21:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst case `stop mce; sleep 1; start mce` |
| 21:38.39 | Sicelo | didn't help either :) |
| 21:38.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't see how mce suddenly develops bugs it didn't ever show during last 5 years |
| 21:39.26 | Sicelo | maybe the pattern is defined in a bad way? |
| 21:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter |
| 21:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | mce doesn't care about the pattern definition |
| 21:39.57 | Sicelo | then it's a crazy situation |
| 21:40.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it simply sends the pattern to lp5523 chip and increments a counter |
| 21:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it refreshes the pattern in lp5523 every 10s or so |
| 21:41.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or actually on every 'event' |
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| 21:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the name of the pattern? |
| 21:42.13 | Sicelo | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1475026&postcount=233 someone else with exactly same issue |
| 21:42.19 | Sicelo | PatternBoost |
| 21:42.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | irrelevant |
| 21:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and did you try sending a dozen or more deactivate dbus msgs? |
| 21:43.49 | Sicelo | i don't have an actual number of timesp but at least 4, yes |
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| 21:48.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and not even a reboot helps to stop the LED blinking? |
| 21:50.00 | Sicelo | reboot helps. so far looks like the only working solution (which sucks) |
| 21:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, mce does _not_ accumulate multiple activate-pattern calls. A single deactivate call stops the pattern |
| 21:52.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe it has another similar looking pattern on its stack that gets re-enabled when you deactivate the PatternBoost? |
| 21:53.41 | Sicelo | who/what would set the pattern? |
| 21:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | how would I know? maybe a patternMessage or pattern_missedcall or whatever |
| 21:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas mce lacks a query what's the currently active pattern resp state of LED |
| 21:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually maybe there's a typo or rather syntax error in the mce.ini file that causes mce to act funny. You might want to check that file |
| 21:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think mce get severely tested for tolerant handling of syntax errors in mce.ini |
| 21:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | another approach would be to start dbus-monitor before you start usbmode first time. Filter for string "*activate", see who sends which LED pattern cmd when and how often |
| 22:02.02 | Sicelo | will try that tomorrow |
| 22:09.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I just notced that a "dbus-monitor --system&" does _not_ log the dbus-send command I use to (de)activate LED pattern |
| 22:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite weird |
| 22:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I forgot how to use that stuff correctly |
| 22:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't touch it for 2 years or so |
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