IRC log for #maemo on 20150515

00:00.05*** join/#maemo king1337-2 (~king1337@S0106c8fb265e946f.vs.shawcable.net)
00:07.53*** join/#maemo chfoo (~chris@UNVLON5554W-LP130-02-1279556787.dsl.bell.ca)
00:30.56*** join/#maemo freehck (~freehck@81.1.148.27)
00:31.01freehckhello people
00:31.25freehckI've just bought Nokia N900. :)
00:32.15freehckI realized that official repositories (catalogs) seemed to be unavailable now.
00:32.27freehckWhat is the correct way to get actual updates?
00:32.42freehckAre they exist by the way?
00:34.48freehckPlus. I've read some articles that root access can be accessed with the `rootsh' package which can be downloaded via Extra repository. But really I have not found from which exactly repository I can download and install it.
00:35.18freehckHAM seems to not have a search through packages by name. Is it correct?
00:35.33freehckAnd sorry for multiple questions.
00:35.39freehckI'm really newbie here.
00:45.55*** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-194-87.residential.rdsnet.ro)
00:49.15bencohfreehck: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1467566&postcount=112
00:49.19bencohwelcome aboard :)
00:50.17bencohyou can use maemo.org/packages to browse/search for package from your computer
00:50.22bencohnow, off I go, 'night :)
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02:34.38freehckthank you vary much for replying.
02:36.42freehckBut when I said about searching, I thought about the fact that I should list all the available packages in HAM for a specific package. It was too boring. I'd like to find a way to check packages to install easier.
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03:29.05freehckOh, cool. I've got a root console on my phone. :)
03:30.50freehckHm... it seems that zsh is not available...
03:30.57freehckWhat's a pity.
03:32.49freehckHm... But it's easy to package it. I think I have a lot of work here. :)
03:34.01freehckWow... No less package.
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06:05.20KotCzarnyfreehck: learn apt-get
06:05.36KotCzarnyand maybe port synaptic
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07:34.39freehckKotCzarny: have not understood. I've been being a debian user for more then 5 years, and think I know APT perfectly. What am I doing wrong?
07:35.17freehckKotCzarny: I suppose there's a repository with these utilities, right?
07:37.13freehckah, I see. Extras-devel. I didn't add it. Time to do it.
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07:41.42freehckKotCzarny: Thank you. Already installed. )
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07:50.14KotCzarnyfreehck: :)
07:50.28KotCzarnyham is ugly
07:51.18KotCzarnyyou should read about upgrading to cssu as it gives many improvements over stock
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07:52.10zGrrmoin :)
07:52.29KotCzarnyoink
07:54.19KotCzarnyfreehck: also, if you add repos outside ham it will overwrite them
07:57.01freehckKotCzarny: I was a little bit frightened about this upgrade because it was described as non-revertable.
07:57.17KotCzarnynot true, you can always reflash with stock firmware
07:57.21freehckKotCzarny: What kind of staff will I get if I upgrade to CSSU?
07:57.27KotCzarny~cssu
07:57.28infobotmethinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
07:57.46freehck*stuff
07:58.30keriofreehck: it's "non-revertable" in the sense that the only sensible way to revert it is to reflash
07:58.50keriobut if it's the first time you've ever set a n900 up, you WILL have to reflash at least once or twice anyway
07:58.58keriobecause you will fuck things up
07:59.09keriothe nice part is, it's completely fine
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07:59.37KotCzarnyfreehck: reflashing its a part of hacking n900
07:59.43*** join/#maemo freemangordon_ (~ivo@213.222.56.174)
07:59.55KotCzarnyeveryone did it few times, and its completely safe
08:00.09keriothere's pretty much nothing you can do to a n900 other than overclocking that would damage it
08:00.14freehckkerio: why will I necessarily fuck up?
08:00.15keriosoftware-wise, that is
08:00.24KotCzarnyand best time to learn/test new stuff is when you are just starting with n900
08:00.52keriofreehck: because fremantle is less resilient to fuckups than win98se
08:01.24keriothere's usually a way to unfuck things up, but there's pretty much no documentation
08:01.36freehckkerio: do you mean that it's not as stable as debian is?
08:01.46KotCzarnybut, if you know debian a bit more than only from gui clicking, you should be fine
08:01.57kerioyou'd think that changing the default shell to bash would be fine
08:02.00keriobut it makes your system unbootable
08:02.13KotCzarnyfreehck: i recently managed fremantle to hang on boot because of bad line in ~/.profile
08:02.15KotCzarnyimagine that
08:02.30KotCzarnyluckily i didnt gave up and fixed it
08:02.52freehckKotCzarny: I'd rather create a new user for system tests. )
08:02.54KotCzarny(without reflashing, just booting rescueos)
08:02.59KotCzarnynope
08:03.01KotCzarnyno new user
08:03.03keriothe only "permanent" damage you can do would be to overwrite CAL
08:03.05KotCzarnyit's one user system
08:03.18KotCzarnyunless you hack it
08:03.26keriobut that only loses you the bluetooth mac address, pretty much
08:03.27freehckI've just understood that user "user" is something obligatory for system to work.
08:03.29KotCzarnybut too many gui things are bound to default /home/user
08:04.33freehckKotCzarny: I don't think that console utilities depend on /home/user so much.
08:04.43freehckit would be ridiculous.
08:04.44kerioif you like tinkering with partitions, make sure that the first partition on the emmc is vfat and the second is extfs
08:04.54keriothe third being swap is only used in sbin/preinit
08:04.57kerioso you can change that
08:05.03KotCzarnyfreehck: anyway, feel free to hack
08:05.09KotCzarnythat's why we love n900 anyway
08:05.30KotCzarnyand if you come up with something new/cool, share it on talk.maemo.org
08:05.41freehckgotcha
08:06.36freehckbtw, many people told me that maemo is a dying platform. Is it true?
08:06.39KotCzarnyand if you hack it beyond unhackable, reflash is quick and easy
08:06.43KotCzarnyyes
08:06.51KotCzarnytoo small userbase, nokia is owned by m$ etc
08:07.01KotCzarnybut if you just want linux phone, it's great
08:07.14freehckI saw that there was a lot of derivatives, but I don't like they're not debian-based.
08:07.24KotCzarnymost linux apps 'just work' after compiling
08:07.36KotCzarnyold glibc and gcc starts biting tho
08:07.57freehckI see there's emacs24 for maemo5. What could be better? :)
08:08.20KotCzarnyfreehck: see my 'just grab the sources and compile it'
08:08.32freehckKotCzarny: where?
08:08.42KotCzarnyand where you get sources for linux apps?
08:08.52KotCzarnyfor compiling see scratchbox env
08:08.53freehckapt-get source / pbuilder?
08:09.13KotCzarnyyou can also compile on device, but it's tricky
08:09.24freehckhey, what debian is lying under maemo5?
08:09.25KotCzarny~scratchbox
08:09.25infobothmm... scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
08:09.29freehckwheezy?
08:09.34freehcksqueeze?
08:09.39KotCzarnydont know
08:09.44KotCzarnysomething from 2007-2009
08:09.50freehckhm...
08:09.54freehck,aybe even lenny.
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08:10.37freehckokay, i must work.
08:10.42freehcksee u later.
08:10.51freehckand thanks for answers.
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10:06.47L29Ah[11:01:57]<kerio> you'd think that changing the default shell to bash would be fine
10:06.47L29Ah[11:02:00]<kerio> but it makes your system unbootable
10:06.48L29Ahworksforme
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10:07.13kerioit works fine as long as the shell you changed to is in /etc/shells and you don't change root's default shell
10:07.14kerioiirc
10:07.19keriobecause, you know
10:07.24kerio8 character passwords are fine
10:07.31keriobut god forbid a user sets a non-approved login shell
10:07.51L29Ah[11:04:44]<kerio> if you like tinkering with partitions, make sure that the first partition on the emmc is vfat and the second is extfs
10:07.51L29Ahi replaced vfat to ext2 okay, fixing only fstab
10:08.05keriouboot will not work properly, i think
10:08.13L29Ahkerio: i did change the root's shell
10:08.16keriounless it uses "the first vfat partition" rather than "the first partition, vfat"
10:09.39KotCzarny*yawn*
10:09.46KotCzarnythere is always rescueos
10:09.54KotCzarnyfor all those hacks
10:10.12KotCzarnyi will make it full blown rescue system one day
10:10.42keriodefine "full blown rescue system"
10:10.43L29Ahport systemrescuecd ;]
10:10.56kerioit's got tools for ubifs, extfs and vfat
10:11.01KotCzarny:)
10:14.53bencohsysresc has ubifs support now ?
10:16.25keriorescueOS has always been able to mount the maemo root fs
10:16.33KotCzarnymount yes, but fix?
10:16.35kerioi doubt systemrescuecd does
10:16.40kerioKotCzarny: you don't fix ubifs
10:16.48keriothe fix for ubifs is to nuke it and rebuild
10:16.55KotCzarny:)
10:16.57bencohyeah I was talking about sysresccd :)
10:39.05Sicelothinks NIN101 did a very good job with RescueOS
10:39.24bencoh+1 :)
10:39.43Sicelothere are just too many possible things that can break Maemo, so a one-for-all rescue system isn't going to be very easy :)
10:44.57NIN101Sicelo: thank you :-)
10:50.21KotCzarnyit has a room for improvements tho
10:50.23KotCzarny:)
10:50.27KotCzarnybut yes, good job
10:50.50KotCzarnyas a nr1 issue, please print some special key shortcuts
10:50.58KotCzarnyas in shift-space == tab
10:51.09KotCzarnyand fn-ctrl == esc
10:51.12KotCzarnyetc
10:53.09bencohKotCzarny: it's in the documentation
10:55.06bencohhmm, maybe not documentation.txt though ...
10:56.37KotCzarnybencoh: best place is motd
10:59.53NIN101yep, good idea
11:00.21KotCzarnyand placing 2 letters symlinks from /rescueOS to /usr/bin
11:00.30KotCzarnyie. mm to mount-maemo.sh
11:00.35KotCzarnyand mu to umount-maemo.sh
11:00.59KotCzarnythat makes repeated reboots more passable
11:01.13KotCzarnyand get rid of that ask-on-start stuff
11:01.33KotCzarnyand make a script that will run them (asking) and name it qc
11:01.42KotCzarnyand list all those shortcuts in motd too
11:03.57KotCzarnyyou get my idea?
11:04.01NIN101yep.
11:04.24KotCzarnyalso, you can run telnetd without asking
11:04.40KotCzarnyand get rid of root pass
11:04.53KotCzarnyit's not that it has to be secure or anything
11:05.06KotCzarnyit has to be quick and handy and helpful
11:05.11NIN101would probably be ok in practise, yes.
11:06.14KotCzarnyat least those are hacks you can do for all, i have more that i did
11:06.37KotCzarnyalso, i have tried compiling kernel using your kernel_config and source, but it didnt boot
11:06.55NIN101oh.
11:06.56KotCzarnyso, you should enable /proc/config.gz option
11:07.10NIN101probably won't ever touch the kernel
11:07.25KotCzarnyi might have broken something because i changed few options, but those were unlikely to break booting
11:07.45KotCzarnydid you compile kernel yourself or used meego one?
11:07.57NIN101compiled it myself in scratchbox, using the meego source
11:08.06NIN101and modified the config a bit so it would actually work.
11:08.30KotCzarnyi may try compiling again without changing anything just for checking
11:09.01NIN101anyway, could take a bit till the new release
11:09.21KotCzarnyno worries, it's usable and helped me in current form
11:09.22NIN101a guy commited quite a lot of changes in the build system etc., first I have to make sure this works and everything.
11:09.27KotCzarnyjust needed some tweaking
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11:44.38L29Ahi want a second n900 for hacking ;[
11:45.10freemangordon_L29Ah: isn;t n900 cheep these days?
11:45.15freemangordon_*cheap
11:45.34L29Ah$120 avg there
11:45.39L29Ahi'm too cheap
11:45.51bencohin the US ?
11:45.51freemangordon_$120 O.o
11:45.54L29Ahin russia
11:46.01bencohoh, okay
11:46.01L29Ahi got mine for $40
11:46.23L29Ahno one needs a thing that can't run angry birds
11:46.33bencohI think it can
11:48.13bencohit can play the webos version using preenv
11:49.43bencohthe android version runs on harmattan with apkenv
11:50.00bencohit might run on maemo as well ... maybe
11:50.47KotCzarnyO.o
11:50.57KotCzarnyyeah, 40$ is more like it
11:51.49bencohoh well, some android angry birds variants are known to run on maemo as well, according to wiki
11:52.10KotCzarnybencoh: at what fps?
11:52.29L29Ahstarts from $100 on ebay
11:52.37bencohhttps://wiki.maemo.org/Apkenv/Game_Compatibility
11:52.43bencohdunno, but it doesnt look bad
11:54.13KotCzarnyl29ah: global ebay or .ru one?
11:54.23L29Ahglobal
11:54.29L29Ahwhat's "ru ebay"?
11:54.35L29Ahwe don't have such thing
11:54.41KotCzarnyebay.ru ?
11:54.51L29Ahredirects to ebay.com
11:55.28KotCzarnyyou should have local auctioning sites
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12:01.40L29Ah[14:45:34]<L29Ah> $120 avg there
12:01.59KotCzarnyuhum
12:02.51L29Ahi hope the battery measurement thing will able to recognize my 5A*h setup on the first run
12:03.09KotCzarnynope, the chip learns slowly
12:03.19KotCzarnywill take few cycles
12:04.04KotCzarnyi see many n900 with damaged usb port
12:04.14KotCzarnysome as low as ~20$
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13:58.27useretailok, i have a real problem now
13:58.48useretailduring calls i can't hear anything and wifi turns on by itself
13:59.20useretailwhat the hell might it be?
13:59.32useretaildamaged flex cable?
14:00.49useretail~flasher
14:00.49infobotsomebody said flasher was at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz.   HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
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14:08.33KotCzarnyusertail, sounds like a hardware problem
14:09.03bencoh?
14:09.28useretailyeah, that's definitely hw problem, but i'll try to reflash first
14:09.46KotCzarnybut wifi wouldnt turn on by itself
14:09.48bencohuseretail: speakers work (apart from during a call) ?
14:09.57useretailbencoh: yes
14:10.17useretailcould it be kernel?
14:10.33KotCzarnydid you do something to kernel?
14:10.35bencohdunno, but I'd bet "software" :)
14:10.55bencoh(and most probably userland)
14:10.58KotCzarnyalso, which speakers we are talking about
14:11.18useretailbencoh: i mean i can't hear via earpiece, but when i enable loudspeakers i can hear
14:11.25bencohoh
14:11.49KotCzarnytry oldschool fix by sucking softly on the earpiece
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14:11.57useretailand now when i turned off wifi, it turned on again!
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14:12.13useretailKotCzarny: what's that?
14:12.15KotCzarnyas for wifi, check if you have 'automatically connect on demand' or something
14:12.29KotCzarnyuseretail, earpiece hole
14:12.54useretailoh that
14:13.22KotCzarnyn8x0 had such option, dont remember for n900
14:14.07useretailnothing :(
14:14.54KotCzarnyany other info how it came to that state?
14:15.11useretaili was playing with power-kernel recently
14:15.19useretailchanged profile
14:15.37useretailto lower voltage
14:16.02KotCzarnyyou dont need to change voltage manually, using smartreflex is better
14:17.08useretailok, i'm backing up stuff
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14:17.20useretailhow to get list of installed apps?
14:17.31KotCzarnydpkg -l
14:17.48useretaildpkg --get-selections
14:20.22useretailKotCzarny: yes, you was right for wifi
14:20.29KotCzarny'you were'
14:20.51useretailright
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14:21.56useretailpolak?
14:22.06KotCzarnytja
14:22.28KotCzarnychyba nick czytelny, w kazdym razie po angielskiemu netykieta wymaga spikac
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14:23.46useretailtroche znam polski, ale lepiej wracajmy do angielskiego ;)
14:24.53useretailany ideas why settings changed?
14:25.06KotCzarnyuser?
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14:27.47useretailthere's only one user
14:27.59KotCzarnyno, i mean user as in 'you'
14:28.02useretailunless someone hacked me :(
14:28.27useretailwhich i don't think is possible :)
14:28.48useretailat least on my n900
14:28.51KotCzarnyyeah, too obscure platform and most know droid
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14:35.41zGrrIt is NOT obscure
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14:36.40zGrrIt's part of a Debian ecosystem.
14:40.55KotCzarnyincompatible with debian repos
14:41.11KotCzarnyso similar/forked, but not too close
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14:52.18zGrrKotCzarny:  fairly close.
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19:29.27knott_rayshow can i turn on the N900 keyboard light from the command line?
19:29.34knott_rayslike, force it on
19:31.44KotCzarnythere is a way, search wiki.maemo.org
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19:44.38useretail~vanilla
19:44.39infoboti heard vanilla is just plain old up & down & up & down & up & down & up & down & ooooh!, or the finest of the flavors
19:44.51useretail~combined
19:44.52infobotfrom memory, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/
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22:43.13L29Ahhttps://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption i don't get it, i think i just leave it as is >_>
22:44.32L29AhKotCzarny: i guess you might want to re-measure the media playing stuff, but i think my numbers' deltas are quite reproducible
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