| 00:14.49 | Oksana | :-) |
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| 05:37.52 | Sicelo_ | i will install cssu-t sometime soon |
| 05:37.56 | Sicelo_ | sorry |
| 05:41.51 | freemangordon | Sicelo_: why sorry? |
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| 07:25.31 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 09:46.56 | bencoh | yay, just received a new polarcell |
| 09:47.20 | bencoh | now ... do I need to do anything to "calibrate" it ? |
| 09:49.21 | kerio | you can calibrate the bq27200 chip in the n900 if you want |
| 09:49.30 | kerio | but it's not something that's used by the standard BME |
| 09:49.37 | kerio | so it won't be reflected by the battery applet, for instance |
| 09:57.14 | bencoh | hmm |
| 09:57.41 | bencoh | does it mean that bme has some hardcoded constants for nokia bl-5j ? |
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| 10:00.14 | kerio | nobody knows what bme does |
| 10:00.17 | kerio | except that it's shit |
| 10:00.33 | bencoh | :] |
| 10:00.42 | Vajb | i thought that bme just uses that resistor value to estimate capacity |
| 10:00.54 | bencoh | hmm |
| 10:01.22 | Vajb | tho bme replacemnt seams to lean on same value... |
| 10:01.31 | Vajb | bleh |
| 10:01.33 | Vajb | seems |
| 10:01.45 | kerio | you don't understand how bme replacement works then |
| 10:01.56 | bencoh | how does it work ? |
| 10:02.05 | Vajb | that is so true :) |
| 10:02.18 | kerio | if bq27k is calibrated, it'll use all the values from it |
| 10:02.28 | Vajb | but i can clearly see what my battery applet shows and what not |
| 10:02.51 | kerio | otherwise it'll use the resistor value |
| 10:03.07 | kerio | if rx51_battery is loaded |
| 10:03.08 | Vajb | well it is calibrated but value is not even close to last measured discharge value |
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| 10:04.13 | kerio | then it's not calibrated |
| 10:04.14 | Vajb | 1487 last measured and applet shows 1277 |
| 10:04.20 | kerio | CI? |
| 10:04.23 | kerio | it's one of the flags |
| 10:04.42 | Vajb | ci? |
| 10:04.46 | kerio | it's one of the flags |
| 10:04.50 | bencoh | looks like rx51_battery is loaded but unused according to lsmod |
| 10:04.59 | bencoh | I'm using the original bme though |
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| 10:05.04 | bencoh | (cssu-s) |
| 10:05.28 | Vajb | ci:1 |
| 10:05.32 | kerio | Vajb: so there you go |
| 10:05.32 | bencoh | or does it just periodically check a /sys entry ? |
| 10:05.34 | kerio | it's not calibrated |
| 10:05.46 | Vajb | hmm how come? |
| 10:05.54 | kerio | because the calibration was marked invalid due to aging |
| 10:05.59 | Vajb | i ran bq five times |
| 10:06.14 | Vajb | and this is quite new battery |
| 10:06.19 | Vajb | two months maybe |
| 10:06.31 | kerio | CI is set after 30 charge cycles |
| 10:06.41 | Vajb | but ok ci is the flag to follow |
| 10:06.41 | Vajb | guess it should be 0 then |
| 10:06.52 | kerio | it's not that "it should be 0" |
| 10:07.00 | kerio | it's that if CI is set, you can't trust the bq27k values |
| 10:07.03 | kerio | that's what the flag means |
| 10:07.12 | kerio | it's also set in case of extreme conditions, iirc |
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| 10:14.25 | bencoh | what I understand from this is that nokia fucked up with an onboard charge controler :p |
| 10:14.44 | kerio | eeh |
| 10:15.09 | kerio | bq27k is intended to be attached to the battery itself, yes |
| 10:15.17 | bencoh | I hope that batteries are cheaper at least |
| 10:15.30 | kerio | i don't think the cost of a chip is relevant |
| 10:15.31 | bencoh | I mean, effectively cheaper, for customers (us) |
| 10:15.48 | bencoh | then it was a stupid idea :) |
| 10:15.58 | kerio | the cost of raw nand compared to the cost of a uSD is pretty much the same |
| 10:16.09 | kerio | even though a uSD has some extra component |
| 10:16.14 | kerio | *components |
| 10:17.42 | bencoh | kerio: bottomline ... should I do anything regarding the new polarcell, apart from just swapping it with the old one ? :) |
| 10:17.58 | kerio | recalibrate bq27k, if you want |
| 10:18.12 | kerio | but it's hard to calibrate it if you're running bme_rx51 |
| 10:18.30 | bencoh | does bme remplacement run on cssu-s ? |
| 10:19.48 | Maxdamantus | Why is it hard to calibrate if you're running bme_rx51? Because it shuts down the system? |
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| 10:25.57 | Vajb | kerio: so i need to run bq272k 30 times to calibrate or just load and discharge my battery normally 30 times? It shows now that i had 35 cycles since last calibration |
| 10:26.05 | kerio | wut |
| 10:26.14 | kerio | no, you just do the calibration once |
| 10:26.19 | kerio | it'll last for 30 cycles |
| 10:26.36 | Vajb | but it never showed the right value so i guess it was never succesfull |
| 10:26.52 | kerio | huh |
| 10:26.54 | kerio | that's weird |
| 10:27.00 | kerio | are you sure you have the bme replacement installed? |
| 10:27.04 | Maxdamantus | cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity |
| 10:27.04 | kerio | and not some weird battery applet |
| 10:27.17 | bencoh | 11:26 < kerio> no, you just do the calibration once |
| 10:27.17 | bencoh | 11:26 < kerio> it'll last for 30 cycles |
| 10:27.32 | Vajb | i mean it changed value everytime, but it was always 200mah less |
| 10:27.45 | kerio | ah yes, that's another issue |
| 10:28.09 | kerio | bq27k won't adjust too much |
| 10:28.25 | kerio | so until you get two calibrations in a row with roughly the same value, you're not getting a correct value |
| 10:28.34 | bencoh | bleh |
| 10:28.47 | bencoh | it feels like black magic |
| 10:28.52 | kerio | it's to avoid outliners |
| 10:28.56 | kerio | because of weird issues |
| 10:29.08 | kerio | but, again, it shows that bq27k was supposed to be attached to a constant power source |
| 10:29.13 | kerio | because you lose the calibration when you switch battery |
| 10:29.15 | bencoh | exactly |
| 10:29.34 | Maxdamantus | Would it still actually be effective even if part of the battery? |
| 10:29.45 | kerio | of course |
| 10:29.53 | bencoh | it would be calibrated once and for all |
| 10:30.05 | Maxdamantus | I don't think I ever let my N900 fully charge then fully discharge, until a few days ago. |
| 10:30.07 | kerio | you just have to be mindful that every once in a while, you have to let it discharge completely |
| 10:30.15 | Maxdamantus | for the almost-year I've had it. |
| 10:30.28 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, so it's something users have to consciously do. |
| 10:31.02 | bencoh | Maxdamantus: same here, but my old polarcell has never shown anything beyond 1230mAh |
| 10:31.22 | bencoh | (I dunno how old it is) |
| 10:31.24 | kerio | not all polarcells are equal i guess |
| 10:31.31 | bencoh | prolly |
| 10:31.37 | kerio | i bought a random-ass battery with no discernible brand |
| 10:31.37 | Maxdamantus | and what does it mean by the 30 charge cycles? |
| 10:31.41 | kerio | and i got a ~1500mAh thing |
| 10:31.43 | bencoh | and I guess they age too |
| 10:32.05 | Maxdamantus | what constitutes a charge cycle, if not letting it fully charge then fully discharge? |
| 10:32.13 | Maxdamantus | (which should calibrate it) |
| 10:32.23 | kerio | charging and discharging a total of LMD |
| 10:32.46 | kerio | so if you discharge from 100% to 50% and then charge it back to 100% twice, it's a cycle |
| 10:32.59 | Maxdamantus | Ah. |
| 10:33.03 | kerio | or roughly a cycle i guess |
| 10:33.12 | kerio | bq27k does some automatic lowering of LMD as time goes |
| 10:33.35 | kerio | so your expectations are never too high |
| 10:33.51 | kerio | it's a pretty nice chip :3 |
| 10:34.32 | bencoh | kerio: buying a random noname battery feels like placing a bet |
| 10:34.33 | bencoh | "will it blend ?" |
| 10:34.45 | Maxdamantus | I'm still sceptical about the fact that users would have to consciously calibrate it. |
| 10:34.49 | kerio | it was suggested by vi____, iirc |
| 10:35.10 | kerio | Maxdamantus: if you want really accurate measurements, it's even worse |
| 10:35.14 | bencoh | vi____ ? |
| 10:35.22 | kerio | because the faster you discharge it, the less charge it's going to show |
| 10:35.30 | kerio | because it's not an ideal capacitor |
| 10:35.41 | kerio | there's lots of chemical bullshit going on in a lithium battery |
| 10:35.49 | bencoh | it's no bullshit :p |
| 10:36.01 | Maxdamantus | I think I found the opposite. |
| 10:36.11 | bencoh | (no, I'm no chemist) |
| 10:36.38 | Maxdamantus | When I first tried to calibrate it a few days ago, I discharged it in about two hours, and it recorded the LMD as 1486 mAh. |
| 10:38.01 | Maxdamantus | It's now down to 1177 mAh after another similarly fast one (~2h30) and one slow one (~20h) |
| 10:39.17 | kerio | yeah, because your battery is roughly 1200 but the default was 1500 |
| 10:39.23 | kerio | so you need two or three calibrations to get an accurate value |
| 10:39.42 | kerio | regardless of how fast you're discharging the battery :) |
| 10:39.55 | Maxdamantus | The default where? |
| 10:40.05 | Maxdamantus | provided by the chip manufacturer? |
| 10:40.19 | Maxdamantus | or did the previous user use a higher-capacity battery? |
| 10:40.19 | kerio | the default in bq27k, yes |
| 10:40.23 | Maxdamantus | Mm. |
| 10:40.30 | kerio | no no, the data is reset when you pull the battery |
| 10:40.38 | kerio | istr it's not attached to the backup battery |
| 10:40.47 | kerio | which is probably not working anyway |
| 10:41.06 | Maxdamantus | Indeed. |
| 10:42.00 | Maxdamantus | Hm. I though I'd already pulled the battery out (long enough for it to forget the time) since the first calibration. |
| 10:43.58 | Maxdamantus | maybe I haven't. |
| 10:44.43 | kerio | ooh actually i'm wrong |
| 10:44.48 | kerio | the default is ILMD |
| 10:44.52 | kerio | Initial Last Measured Discharge (ILMD): 2056.32 mAh |
| 10:45.46 | Maxdamantus | on the N900? |
| 10:45.56 | Maxdamantus | It looks like the ILMD is meant to be programmed in. |
| 10:46.01 | kerio | yep |
| 10:46.03 | kerio | but it wasn't programmed |
| 10:46.17 | Maxdamantus | Heh, because they weren't expecting to use it. |
| 10:46.18 | kerio | it's not particularly meaningful, the way it was implemented on the n900 |
| 10:46.34 | kerio | you program a batch of chips with the approximate charge your batteries are going to hold |
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| 10:53.52 | bencoh | 11:44 < kerio> Initial Last Measured Discharge (ILMD): 2056.32 mAh |
| 10:53.58 | bencoh | wait, what ? 2056mah ? |
| 10:54.10 | bencoh | where does that come from ? |
| 10:55.44 | Maxdamantus | wonders if it'd be better if the software let people specify what they think the battery's capacity is. |
| 10:56.08 | bencoh | prolly not |
| 10:56.46 | Maxdamantus | and just use that and `LMD - NAC` |
| 10:57.02 | kerio | it's not linear |
| 10:57.21 | kerio | it's used as a starting point for calculations |
| 11:01.44 | Pali | initial value comes from EEPROM chip in n900 |
| 11:02.09 | Pali | programmed by Nokia |
| 11:06.34 | kerio | why wasn't it set in a more sensible way, tho |
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| 11:45.42 | Pali | kerio: because nokia bme does not use ILMD, so it was probably programmed to default max value |
| 11:46.18 | kerio | yeah but |
| 11:46.22 | kerio | they know their BL-5J |
| 11:46.56 | Pali | I think they did not set ILMD value and by default some factory settings is 0xFFFF or so |
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| 11:47.01 | kerio | oic |
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| 12:18.39 | Vajb | i guess bme replacement is now sorted. So maybe someone can explain how is it possible that my n900 still reboots daily with sw_rst even though i have r&d mode enabled with 3 wd flags |
| 12:19.37 | Vajb | syslog doesn't show anything unusuall. Is there other ways to debug? |
| 12:35.45 | Pali | lifeguard reset? |
| 12:36.01 | Pali | hw reset? |
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| 12:48.38 | Vajb | enabled |
| 12:48.48 | Vajb | also omap is enabled |
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| 13:56.10 | Pali | then some hw reset.. low battery? other hw problem? |
| 14:13.14 | Vajb | battery is fresh |
| 14:13.38 | Vajb | dunno about hw problems. Everything seems to work |
| 14:14.04 | Vajb | also worth mentioning is that it has no sim just wlan connection always on |
| 14:15.13 | Vajb | i thought first that maybe battery connection is the cause, but tightening them brought no difference |
| 14:15.51 | Vajb | how to pinpoint hw problem? |
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| 15:10.42 | Pali | provide syslog |
| 15:10.47 | Pali | maybe there is something |
| 15:17.20 | Vajb | r there any specific lines to search for? |
| 15:18.11 | Vajb | give my device a few days and it will produce syslog to look at. |
| 15:18.25 | Vajb | should i post it to pastebin for example? |
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| 15:38.44 | Pali | there must be something which caused reboot |
| 15:39.44 | Pali | either regular reboot (and rsyslogd daemon write to systlog that was stopped) or HW reboot (no indication about regular reboot) |
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| 16:01.22 | freemangordon | Pali: EEPROM? |
| 16:01.45 | freemangordon | if it is EEPROM we can reprogram it |
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| 17:25.33 | Pali | freemangordon: cannot, it is connected to bq chip |
| 17:25.50 | Pali | and reprogramming needs some voltage on hw level... |
| 17:26.13 | Pali | ask shadowjk, he could know more... |
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| 18:15.22 | ShadowJK | iirc 40V on pins not exposed |
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| 20:29.17 | stryngs | Is it insane to upgrade dpkg itself? |
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| 20:29.22 | stryngs | Would it break my n900? |
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| 20:45.47 | stryngs | Nobody? =-) |
| 20:46.01 | stryngs | Common folks, I'm trying to build a native package builder for the n900 |
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| 20:46.12 | stryngs | This will be of great use to those who wish to build .debs directly on their n900 |
| 20:46.21 | stryngs | Just need a wee bit o help |
| 20:53.17 | Sicelo_ | dpkg did get updated in some CSSU version iirc.. anyway, since you do things your own way, i'd say take a backup, try what you want, and see... |
| 20:53.43 | stryngs | true =) |
| 20:53.53 | stryngs | It'll be neat though Sicelo, a native dh_make and such |
| 20:54.02 | stryngs | I know people harp on scratchbox and all |
| 20:54.18 | stryngs | i was missing dpkg-buildflags, so i needed to update =) |
| 21:08.01 | merlin1991 | stryngs: there should be a newer debhelper version in extras |
| 21:08.30 | merlin1991 | maemo.org/packages/view/debhelper7/ |
| 21:08.43 | merlin1991 | dunno if that is enough to include what you want |
| 21:22.23 | stryngs | looking for 8 =/ |
| 21:22.31 | stryngs | i'm playing the dependency hell game |
| 21:22.34 | stryngs | but im almost htere! |
| 21:22.42 | stryngs | and when done I'm gunna repo it up for the community ! |
| 21:22.47 | stryngs | Pretty exciting =) |
| 21:23.08 | stryngs | Would upgrading perl be bad for the n900 |
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| 21:30.41 | Maxdamantus | Mm, so now LMD is 1175 mAh, down from 1177. I guess that means it's found about the right value. |
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| 21:41.52 | stryngs | zomg, my head is gunna pop |
| 21:41.59 | stryngs | i just want to say, I HATE scratchbox |
| 21:43.21 | merlin1991 | nah scratchbox is fine |
| 21:43.24 | merlin1991 | when you know the quirks ;9 |
| 21:43.48 | merlin1991 | btw please make your new debhelper package in a way that it can coexist with the original one, because if not we are in build hell ... |
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