| 00:08.38 | useretail | Vajb: doesn't help |
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| 01:05.46 | gerkin75 | hi |
| 01:07.34 | gerkin75 | i see new version built in http://maemo.org/packages/ but when i upgrade from app manager doesn't show the upgrades |
| 01:08.15 | gerkin75 | for example qml-browser |
| 01:12.11 | Oksana | Which repository? Devel or testing? |
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| 01:23.54 | gerkin75 | devel |
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| 01:29.37 | Oksana | Do you have Devel repository enabled in App manager? |
| 01:30.14 | gerkin75 | yes. but no update show |
| 01:30.46 | gerkin75 | with apt-get some update but qml-browser no still |
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| 01:34.23 | Oksana | aptitude update; aptitude upgrade; aptitude install qml-browser ? |
| 01:39.18 | bencoh | apt-cache policy qml-browser |
| 01:39.25 | gerkin75 | i was using aptitude for ovi store...now removed...will try to use again |
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| 05:05.55 | Oksana | Is Clarivue screen protector good on N900? |
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| 06:48.02 | Vajb | no idea, but i guess any screen protector is better than none |
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| 06:49.26 | Vajb | useretail: it won't start or how it doesn't help? |
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| 08:04.08 | sixwheeledbeast | gerkin75: updates will not show immediately they can take upto 24 hours. |
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| 08:38.03 | Vajb | is it possible to get some sound or vibration from irssi when someone mentions my nick? |
| 08:38.37 | Humpelstilzchen | Vajb: you could write a perl plugin |
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| 08:44.43 | Vajb | yes? I found some libnotify script for irssi. It uses dbus |
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| 08:48.55 | Humpelstilzchen | Vajb: I have a basic perl script which catches a highlight and can run a command... |
| 08:53.50 | Vajb | i c. Sadly my skills on scripting r below zero |
| 08:55.17 | Vajb | and just to make sure. We are speaking about n900 irssi? |
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| 09:03.30 | bencoh | Vajb: is irssi running on your phone or ssh ? |
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| 09:07.52 | Vajb | on phone |
| 09:08.22 | zGrr | moin :) |
| 09:09.35 | Vajb | hi zGrr |
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| 09:18.13 | bencoh | I think we have no perl support in irssi in maemo |
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| 09:31.25 | Humpelstilzchen | thats would be bad |
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| 09:42.29 | Vajb | bencoh: we have now. It's announced on maemo.org, but i'm not sure if it's on repo's. |
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| 09:43.42 | bencoh | doesnt seem to be there |
| 09:43.52 | bencoh | well, according to deps |
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| 10:05.47 | Vajb | well u can install it via link on maemo.org just search for irssi 0.8.17 |
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| 10:45.36 | Sicelo | yes, i didnt' package for repos |
| 10:45.42 | Sicelo | i will get going on that |
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| 13:02.27 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 13:13.40 | Shapeshifter | hey fellas |
| 13:14.50 | Shapeshifter | Can someone tell me how the jolla compares to the N900 (apart from lack of keyboard etc.)? My N900 feels dated. I'm wondering if the Jolla is a viable successor... |
| 13:16.11 | bencoh | well, it's a qualcomm with on-SoC modem |
| 13:16.25 | bencoh | s/SoC/chip/ |
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| 13:19.05 | Shapeshifter | bencoh: well I'm not too concerned about the modem. I mean more in terms of how it handles and feels to someone who likes to customize stuff to the max. E.g. desktop command execution widget |
| 13:19.29 | Shapeshifter | Is the keyboard okay for ssh/term stuff (i.e. ctrl/alt/esc, braces etc.)? |
| 13:19.32 | bencoh | oh, you'd need to talk to sailfish users then |
| 13:19.46 | Shapeshifter | well I was looking basically for an opinion of former N900 users ;) |
| 13:19.51 | bencoh | :) |
| 13:20.19 | bencoh | some people are building a hwkbd for it |
| 13:20.55 | Shapeshifter | yeah I saw it. looks pretty shitty compared to the n900 kb... |
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| 13:27.21 | ShadowJK | Basically, if you use the hwkeyboard on N900, you'll be infuriated by Jolla (and any other device without keyboard) :P |
| 13:28.38 | ShadowJK | .. which is why I'm typing this on N900, but surfing web on Jolla |
| 13:30.10 | bencoh | haha |
| 13:32.42 | ShadowJK | The whole UI kinda gets to you though. After using Jolla, when faced with an android you'll be swiping and thinking the touchscreen broke before "Oh right, I have to press buttons. How old fashioned" |
| 13:34.23 | jon_y | phones with wooden dials and knobs :) |
| 13:34.39 | bencoh | I use wayv on the n900 for a few things (launcher, tasknav, go to home, lock, toggle fullscreen) |
| 13:34.59 | bencoh | (global gestures, kindof) |
| 13:35.26 | jon_y | what gestures? |
| 13:35.31 | ShadowJK | I don't have the gesture problem on N900, ctrl-backspace sits in musclememory |
| 13:35.37 | jon_y | draw something on a screen for something to pop up? |
| 13:35.56 | jon_y | draws an elder sign |
| 13:37.51 | bencoh | jon_y: yup something like that |
| 13:38.12 | bencoh | (starting from the bottom - in portrait, right side in landscape) |
| 13:38.24 | jon_y | way to make my phone inaccessible to strangers :) |
| 13:38.34 | bencoh | ? |
| 13:38.57 | jon_y | well, if somebody picks up your phone without knowing gestures |
| 13:39.06 | jon_y | and the UI is locked to using gestures... |
| 13:39.12 | jon_y | yeah, fun project |
| 13:39.20 | bencoh | I didnt nuke hildon-desktop/matchbox :) |
| 13:39.28 | bencoh | you still can use it the old way |
| 13:39.49 | bencoh | (I still do in some cases ... like ctrl-bksp in landscape) |
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| 13:41.29 | jon_y | I wonder if it is possible to send a vocoded signal over GSM |
| 13:42.27 | jon_y | prescramble the captured voice bands before it leaves the phone |
| 13:42.45 | jon_y | the other side would need to use a decoder as well |
| 13:43.38 | bencoh | doable in PA I guess |
| 13:43.40 | jon_y | the initial call setup would probably include a pubkey exchange |
| 13:43.46 | bencoh | not sure you want to play with that though |
| 13:43.53 | bencoh | especially after going through -voice |
| 13:43.58 | jon_y | modem sounding stuff after starting :) |
| 13:44.15 | jon_y | well yes, everything needs to fit in the voice band |
| 13:44.26 | jon_y | which is why vocoder is important |
| 13:44.30 | bencoh | it's trickier than just voice band |
| 13:44.32 | jon_y | to slice out stuff |
| 13:44.46 | jon_y | to reserve bandwidth for other stuff |
| 13:45.17 | jon_y | quality would sound terrible but if you are paranoid, you don't need it :) |
| 13:45.56 | jon_y | 3 band is probably hard to listen to |
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| 14:11.30 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: does the jolla "feel slow" in any way? |
| 14:12.25 | Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: also, I'm not sure about the hw keyboard anymore. I tried out dad's iphone a couple of times and the keyboard seems fine (unless doing terminal stuff, hence the question) |
| 14:12.52 | Shapeshifter | but I dunno. I'm just kinda bored with the N900. Maybe I just need to wipe it and start over |
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| 14:16.35 | zGrr | I am bored with n900 too. Problem is that there is nothing capapble of replacing it. |
| 14:16.56 | zGrr | Besides, it has too little RAM. |
| 14:17.15 | bencoh | neo900 maybe :) |
| 14:17.20 | stryngs | build bash for it zGrr =) |
| 14:17.56 | stryngs | Wanna see scary =)? |
| 14:17.56 | stryngs | Nokia-N900:~/sources/bash# gpg --verify bash43-002.sig |
| 14:17.56 | stryngs | gpg: Signature made Tue Mar 25 2014 09:47:41 PM EDT using DSA key ID 64EA74AB |
| 14:17.56 | stryngs | gpg: Good signature from "Chet Ramey <chet@cwru.edu>" |
| 14:17.56 | stryngs | gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature! |
| 14:17.58 | stryngs | gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner. |
| 14:18.01 | stryngs | Primary key fingerprint: 7C01 35FB 088A AF6C 66C6 50B9 BB58 69F0 64EA 74AB |
| 14:18.03 | stryngs | That's scary |
| 14:18.46 | zGrr | I don't care. Tcsh is good enought anyway. |
| 14:19.19 | jon_y | tcsh? |
| 14:19.33 | jon_y | TCSH is terrible, like CSH |
| 14:19.40 | jon_y | all the quirks |
| 14:20.28 | zGrr | Maybe. |
| 14:20.34 | zGrr | I just got used to it. |
| 14:20.44 | jon_y | I hate all the TCSH scripts I have to maintain |
| 14:21.00 | jon_y | I purge them and replace them with shitty perl equivalents |
| 14:21.01 | zGrr | I am working on too many systems without bash. |
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| 14:21.33 | jon_y | just use perl, being write-only is infinitely better than quirky inconsistent syntax |
| 14:22.01 | zGrr | i prefer awk to be honest. |
| 14:22.28 | jon_y | awk cannot communicate via memory maps :| |
| 14:22.48 | jon_y | well, I'm trying to learn python but never get the chance |
| 14:23.04 | jon_y | really though, my preferred language is plain C |
| 14:23.08 | zGrr | ... and some awk implementations do not have same awk extensions. |
| 14:23.12 | zGrr | well. |
| 14:23.18 | jon_y | and then Java for anything more complicated |
| 14:23.31 | zGrr | You wouldn't believe how weird some systems can be. |
| 14:23.44 | jon_y | C++ feels like the unwanted middle child |
| 14:24.02 | jon_y | zGrr: yeah, I did baremetal embedded some time ago |
| 14:24.19 | jon_y | some DSPs are bullshit to use |
| 14:24.35 | bencoh | plain C <3 |
| 14:24.37 | zGrr | The system i mostly work on doesn't even use ascii and porting even simple programs can bi a nightmare. |
| 14:25.09 | jon_y | zGrr: how about cross compiling? |
| 14:25.25 | jon_y | or making the compiler emit EBDIC |
| 14:25.47 | jon_y | welp, look at the time |
| 14:25.53 | jon_y | runs off to sleep |
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| 14:31.08 | zGrr | It's not EBCDIC that is a problem, but dependencies. |
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| 15:08.20 | stryngs | wonders why there is no patched bash for maemo yet |
| 15:09.26 | teotwaki | really |
| 15:09.44 | stryngs | ? |
| 15:10.54 | Veggen | uhm. there's probably not that many N900s with remote acess around :) |
| 15:10.58 | teotwaki | you're really wondering why an OS that has been left to die for the better part of the past 5 years is not seeing security hotfixes? |
| 15:11.10 | stryngs | It saddens the shit out of me teotwaki |
| 15:11.11 | Veggen | (if you're thinking shellshock) |
| 15:11.39 | stryngs | What's the point of cssu if ya'll dont update stuff |
| 15:13.03 | bencoh | we do get updates for a few things |
| 15:13.16 | bencoh | bash sec issues arent a real issue for maemo, that's all |
| 15:13.27 | stryngs | not that u see, they could be =) |
| 15:13.29 | bencoh | it's not default shell |
| 15:13.39 | stryngs | Still, it's an issue and should be addressed |
| 15:13.46 | bencoh | and I hope you're not running a bashscript CGI server on your phone |
| 15:13.49 | stryngs | It's bad thought process not to address such underlying things |
| 15:13.51 | bencoh | and ... it takes time :) |
| 15:13.53 | bencoh | sure |
| 15:14.07 | stryngs | compiling the patched version right now to see if i have all dependencies in place =) |
| 15:14.26 | stryngs | i've been waiting, hoping someone would release, but they havent, so today i decided to move forward =) |
| 15:15.08 | stryngs | plus it will be nice to move from GNU bash, version 3.2.33(2)-release (arm-unknown-linux-gnu) |
| 15:15.11 | stryngs | Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 15:15.14 | stryngs | to 4.3 =) |
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| 15:19.50 | bencoh | dont we have bash4 somewhere in repo ? |
| 15:19.57 | bencoh | oh and btw ... bash isnt in cssu afaik |
| 15:20.00 | bencoh | it's in extras |
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| 15:25.41 | stryngs | cracks the whip on his processor |
| 15:25.50 | stryngs | faster bash! compiled quicker damn u! |
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| 19:45.27 | stryngs | =) |
| 19:45.31 | stryngs | dpkg -i bash_4.3-patch-30_armel.deb |
| 19:45.31 | stryngs | (Reading database ... 57278 files and directories currently installed.) |
| 19:45.31 | stryngs | Preparing to replace bash 4.3-patch-30 (using bash_4.3-patch-30_armel.deb) ... |
| 19:45.31 | stryngs | Unpacking replacement bash ... |
| 19:45.33 | stryngs | Setting up bash (4.3-patch-30) ... |
| 19:45.36 | stryngs | =) |
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| 19:58.25 | stryngs | Nokia-N900:~# bash |
| 19:58.26 | stryngs | Nokia-N900:~# env X='() { :; }; echo "CVE-2014-6271 vulnerable"' bash -c id |
| 19:58.26 | stryngs | uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root),20(dialout),29(audio),44(video),670(pulse-access) |
| 19:58.29 | stryngs | =) |
| 19:58.33 | stryngs | I am hax0r proof |
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| 20:04.29 | ecc3g | # bash |
| 20:04.31 | ecc3g | bash: Command not found. |
| 20:04.36 | ecc3g | I am hax0r proof. |
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| 20:09.54 | stryngs | heh |
| 20:10.19 | ecc3g | :) |
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| 20:11.27 | stryngs | It's still nice being patched ecc3g |
| 20:11.48 | ecc3g | if you're using it, sure... |
| 20:12.13 | stryngs | which dhcp client does maemo use by default..? |
| 20:14.10 | sec | udhcpc |
| 20:14.40 | sec | A very very very very old one |
| 20:14.44 | sec | 0.9.8cvs20050303-2osso7 |
| 20:15.54 | stryngs | hmm |
| 20:16.47 | ecc3g | I do find it somewhat funny. I get tons of updates for pierogi... |
| 20:17.34 | sec | Yeah the guy who made it is pretty active on tmo too |
| 20:18.03 | ecc3g | ... but no updates for bash... heh |
| 20:18.24 | ecc3g | need more devs i guess. |
| 20:19.27 | sec | Does anyone have a link to that image with scratchbox loaded and configured? |
| 20:20.08 | sec | I am assuming that's what I need for compiling packages? |
| 20:21.26 | ecc3g | ~maemosdk |
| 20:21.26 | infobot | it has been said that maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation |
| 20:21.38 | ecc3g | hmm was worth a shot. |
| 20:22.37 | ecc3g | http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ ? |
| 20:23.29 | ecc3g | need to put this on a torrent somewhere... |
| 20:23.46 | stryngs | builds natievly =) |
| 20:23.56 | stryngs | natively rather |
| 20:24.35 | ecc3g | yeah that would make it easier to build packages... though I'd rather be compiling with my i7 :\ |
| 20:25.08 | stryngs | true, but scratchbox seems like a pain |
| 20:25.12 | stryngs | hence i build natively =) |
| 20:25.46 | ecc3g | so far I only got splitvt built ... it indeed is a pain... |
| 20:26.29 | stryngs | Depends: aria2 (= 1.18.8), bash (= 4.3-patch-30), bind9 (= 9.8.8b2), bison (= 3.0.2), cmake (= 2.8.4), crunch (= 3.6), curl (= 7.37.1), ettercap (= 0.8.1), evilap (= 1.0), exiftool (= 9.72), exploitdb (= 1.0), ferret (= 1.2.0), flex (= 2.5.39), grimwepa (= 1.0), gzip-n900 (= 1.6), hydra (= 7.4.2), hydrafy (= 2.4), ip-fwd-gui (= 1.0), isc-dhcp-server (= 4.3.0), jhead (= 2.97), libdnet (= 1.11), libnl1 (= 1.1.4), lorcon (= 2.0), ngrep (= 1.45), nikto (= |
| 20:26.36 | stryngs | All my custom packages =) |
| 20:27.14 | ecc3g | was trying to build pidgin with a small patch to save a little power, but never got it to build correctly... grr. |
| 20:28.42 | stryngs | yeah, i have issues native building too |
| 20:28.49 | stryngs | its why u see some of the progs listed above |
| 20:28.53 | stryngs | the apt-get ones suck |
| 20:29.12 | ecc3g | it's the library dependencies that I would hope exist on the phone too... |
| 20:29.25 | stryngs | Yep, that is a pain in my left cheek |
| 20:30.08 | ecc3g | having it exist in scratchbox is one thing, then need it on the phone too. ideally the one on the phone matches the one in scratchbox. |
| 20:30.20 | stryngs | Nope, i wish i did though |
| 20:30.28 | stryngs | its why i hack up debs |
| 20:31.40 | stryngs | grab source; cd source; ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install DESTDIR=~/deb; cd deb && mkdir DEBIAN && cd DEBIAN && touch control (make control file); cd ~; dpkg-deb -b deb . |
| 20:31.48 | stryngs | boom, deb built natively =) |
| 20:33.54 | sec | I'd build natively, but I am assuming dependencies will be a pain |
| 20:34.11 | stryngs | depends on what yer building sec |
| 20:34.55 | ecc3g | probably native build is easier on dependencies than cross building, because you'll know right away when they're not met... |
| 20:35.10 | stryngs | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:35.22 | stryngs | thats also another reason i dont like the scratchbox idea |
| 20:35.29 | stryngs | i wish the fricking build tools existed natively |
| 20:35.31 | ecc3g | well... almost right away... if it crashes 10 hours down the road... |
| 20:35.38 | stryngs | its why i have to chop my debs up |
| 20:35.47 | stryngs | id prefer to build a .deb the debian way |
| 20:35.54 | stryngs | but alas, impossible on n900 natively |
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| 20:36.08 | ecc3g | I remember the time I tried to build centericq (centerim) natively on my DECstation 3100 |
| 20:36.14 | sec | Why's that stryngs |
| 20:36.29 | stryngs | 15:34 < ecc3g> probably native build is easier on dependencies than cross building, because you'll know right away when they're not met... |
| 20:36.35 | stryngs | thats why sec |
| 20:36.47 | ecc3g | takes THREE DAYS to complete, and several times it bombed and had to restart |
| 20:36.58 | ecc3g | only takes 10 mins to x-compile |
| 20:37.00 | sec | No I mean stryngs > but alas, impossible on n900 natively |
| 20:37.03 | stryngs | oh |
| 20:37.11 | stryngs | the .debs are scratchbox only |
| 20:37.17 | stryngs | as in they look for files under /scratchbox |
| 20:37.24 | sec | Eh ok |
| 20:37.26 | stryngs | u can grab them, and dpkg -i them |
| 20:37.27 | stryngs | but....... |
| 20:37.30 | stryngs | they fail =./ |
| 20:37.59 | ecc3g | Venture a guess why it takes 3 days to build centericq on the DECstation 3100... |
| 20:38.19 | ecc3g | It's a mipsel box (netbsd)... |
| 20:38.34 | stryngs | The little gerbil inside is probably elderly |
| 20:38.35 | ecc3g | R2000 ... |
| 20:38.43 | ecc3g | 16MHz... |
| 20:38.54 | sec | lol |
| 20:38.55 | stryngs | 3100 "PMAX" R2000, R2010, R2020 chipset[5] 16.67 MHz (60 ns)[5] 11 January 1989[6] ? |
| 20:38.56 | stryngs | 2100 "PMIN" R2000, R2010, R2020 chipset[5] 12.50 MHz (80 ns)[7] 11 July 1989 |
| 20:39.02 | stryngs | 16.67 damn u! |
| 20:39.16 | ecc3g | 16MHz isn't actually the problem |
| 20:39.23 | ecc3g | 24MB is the real problem |
| 20:40.02 | ecc3g | centericq uses g++ and the poor machine was 30MB into swap to build |
| 20:41.48 | ecc3g | You know, same problem trying to build firefox for a 384MB x86 PC... it will run it just fine, but building it, you really want that i7 with 4GB RAM... |
| 20:43.25 | ecc3g | actually centericq was more like 90MB into swap... been a while. |
| 20:43.35 | ecc3g | Not worth it :D |
| 20:45.52 | stryngs | cuddles his n900 |
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| 21:03.38 | Vajb | is it just me or are the repo's down? |
| 21:03.59 | stryngs | they were up earlier, which repo |
| 21:04.44 | sec | Up for me Vajb |
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| 21:08.25 | bencoh | ecc3g: what kind of patch (pidgin/power) ? |
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| 21:15.59 | Vajb | all maemo repos... |
| 21:17.18 | bencoh | doesnt look down to me |
| 21:18.37 | Vajb | hmm lemme try from wlan... |
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| 21:23.10 | Vajb_ | ok solved |
| 21:23.40 | Vajb_ | for some reason i had mms connection hanging |
| 21:24.16 | Vajb_ | it's been two days since i received mms. guess it's been hanging behind since that |
| 21:24.56 | Vajb_ | coz yesterday opera couldn't make connection, but i didn't bother to check it coz fennec was working |
| 21:25.24 | Vajb_ | but makes me wonder how come it screws up some programs but others just keep on working |
| 21:25.39 | Vajb_ | like yappari,irssi and facebookchat |
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| 21:29.08 | Sicelo | Vajb_: seems other programs look at a lower level than others. others rely more on what is specified in UI, but others just look at default route or some such |
| 21:32.02 | Vajb_ | i c |
| 21:32.35 | Vajb_ | that extra connection wasn't visible to me unless clicking connections button |
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