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| 04:48.15 | wookey_ | the maemo5 SDK link here is dead: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ |
| 04:48.40 | wookey_ | should I be using deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ hathor main |
| 04:48.55 | wookey_ | or http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free |
| 04:49.00 | wookey_ | or something else? |
| 04:49.26 | wookey_ | I see scratchbox2 is in debian, but I assume that won;t work without some tweakage? |
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| 06:51.11 | sixwheeledbeast | wookey_: see /topic |
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| 06:57.40 | wookey_ | the topic takes me to http://maemo.org/intro/, which links to the the SDK page I posted above, which has a dead link to nokia site. So I don;t see how that helps? |
| 06:59.28 | Sicelo | ~sb |
| 06:59.28 | infobot | i heard scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB |
| 06:59.43 | Sicelo | wookey_: he meant that ^^ |
| 07:01.14 | wookey_ | cheers |
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| 15:47.57 | Pali | ~poettering |
| 15:47.57 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html |
| 15:48.17 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: you can add this link: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html |
| 15:50.26 | Pali | do you know how much some bounty hunter in germany cost? |
| 15:50.33 | Pali | this is not funny anymore... |
| 15:56.54 | NIN101 | indeed. |
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| 16:06.02 | merlin1991 | Hence, even in this scheme RPM/DEB are highly relevant, though not strictly as an end-user tool anymore, but as a build tool. |
| 16:06.08 | merlin1991 | wtf² |
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| 16:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd cabal is a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too. See http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html |
| 16:06.29 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
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| 16:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pettering is also see ~systemd cabal |
| 16:08.04 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 16:08.10 | merlin1991 | looking at the whole proposal it mainly is a more complicated way of doing winsxs :D |
| 16:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget pettering |
| 16:08.12 | infobot | i forgot pettering, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 16:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~poettering is also see ~systemd cabal |
| 16:08.19 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 16:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: (hunter) I think there's a number of Russian immigrants that are pretty cheap and do literally *everything* when you pay them |
| 16:11.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard numbers in the ballpark range of 500EUR |
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| 16:11.38 | kerio | well |
| 16:11.47 | kerio | surely HiFo has 500EUR to spare |
| 16:11.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha, do you think so? |
| 16:12.06 | kerio | it's for the good of linux! |
| 16:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | forget it, such dude won't sign an invoice/receipt. so for HiFo it's impossible |
| 16:14.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | The real problem: the systemd cabal gets paid (by redhat?) for the crap they do |
| 16:15.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | to me the whole thing more and more looks like "the secret war between RedHat and Canonical" |
| 16:20.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Cryptographically secure verification of the code we execute is relevant on the desktop (like ChromeOS does), but also for apps, for embedded devices and even on servers (in a post-Snowden world, in particular).<< SUUUURE Mr Poettering |
| 16:20.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis |
| 16:20.42 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 16:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever heard of MD5sum and similar simple straight ways to ensure what you got is what you want? |
| 16:21.44 | Pali | its not war anymore... canonical chosed systemd too |
| 16:26.58 | Luke-Jr | systemd-- |
| 16:32.12 | wmarone__ | DocScrutinizer05: I believe that such digests are part of said systems? |
| 16:32.19 | wmarone__ | only they start with SHA-256 and not md5 |
| 16:32.30 | kerio | what the fuck is a "post-snowden world"? |
| 16:32.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no idea, AFIK snowden lives |
| 16:33.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | AFAIK even |
| 16:33.18 | wmarone__ | kerio: presumably, one that has you aware of what the NSA does...? |
| 16:33.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how's trsuted computing help with that? |
| 16:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme try again |
| 16:34.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how's trusted computing going to help with that? |
| 16:34.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: probably the converse |
| 16:34.15 | kerio | trusted computing is for the nsa |
| 16:34.18 | wmarone__ | presumably if you hold the keys, you can verify the platform |
| 16:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | what Poettering suggests is "signed upstram packages" or sth like that, that's not anything like "you hold the keys" |
| 16:35.25 | kerio | what the fuck even is a package |
| 16:35.34 | kerio | is it like the app store |
| 16:35.36 | wmarone__ | kerio: asking obvious questions now? |
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| 16:35.50 | dos1 | woah |
| 16:35.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I more than once explained that "you hold the keys" is a delusion regarding effectiveness, since it is not capable to implement more security than e.g. SElinux |
| 16:36.10 | dos1 | Poettering suggests something like that? |
| 16:36.10 | wmarone__ | signed upstream packages is a good thing, it inhibits MITM attacks where the cryptographic digest is intercepted |
| 16:36.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: >>We want our images to be trustable (i.e. signed). In fact we want a fully trustable OS, with images that can be verified by a full trust chain from the firmware (EFI SecureBoot!), through the boot loader, through the kernel, and initrd. Cryptographically secure verification of the code we execute is relevant on the desktop (like ChromeOS does), but also for apps, for embedded devices and even on servers (in a post-Snowden world, |
| 16:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | in particular).<< |
| 16:37.02 | kerio | apt already verifies packages with gnupg keys |
| 16:37.16 | wmarone__ | kerio: so "cryptographically signed packageS" |
| 16:37.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sure. It's about "Trusted computing" |
| 16:37.38 | kerio | who's the trusted here |
| 16:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | whoever holds the PKI key |
| 16:37.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's NOT you |
| 16:38.12 | wmarone__ | presumably you're placing your trust in your OS vendor |
| 16:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's pretty in line with aegis fuckup |
| 16:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl all the problems |
| 16:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Poettering evidently is a poor system architect, but this time he gone WAY too far |
| 16:39.42 | wmarone__ | I agree, it's better to leave yourself exposed than to look into means of securing one's system |
| 16:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the point is I don't want $random_person to secure MY system |
| 16:40.18 | wmarone__ | then feel free to do it all yourself |
| 16:40.23 | wmarone__ | including audit all the code |
| 16:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | feel free to bend over to Poettering |
| 16:40.55 | wmarone__ | be more of an ass? |
| 16:41.07 | wmarone__ | you haven't made an argument |
| 16:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I did, you didn't notice |
| 16:41.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-09-01 Mon 18:38:18] <DocScrutinizer05> so it's pretty in line with aegis fuckup |
| 16:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-09-01 Mon 18:38:31] <DocScrutinizer05> incl all the problems |
| 16:42.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody holding the keys of your system and depriving you from doing whatever you want on your own system |
| 16:42.17 | wmarone__ | you forgot your blind assumption that you wont' have any control |
| 16:42.40 | kerio | at some point you have to sense a fucking pattern |
| 16:42.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's an immanent concept detail of that Trusted Computing shit |
| 16:42.48 | wmarone__ | yeah, repeated ignorance |
| 16:42.56 | kerio | that's literally what the human brain has evolved for |
| 16:43.41 | wmarone__ | it's also good at seeing patterns that aren't there, and confusing them |
| 16:43.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-09-01 Mon 18:35:52] <DocScrutinizer05> I more than once explained that "you hold the keys" is a delusion regarding effectiveness, since it is not capable to implement more security than e.g. SElinux |
| 16:44.00 | kerio | i really hope you're right |
| 16:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism |
| 16:45.29 | wmarone__ | ah |
| 16:45.48 | wmarone__ | if you want to criticize someone over this, go after Apple and Microsoft |
| 16:47.02 | wmarone__ | bitching about poettering and screamig "omg trusted computing" doesn't lend you to seerious consideration |
| 16:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you can't see how what Poettering suggests is exactly the Trusted Computing scheme, then I can't help |
| 16:47.53 | kerio | holy shit i didn't know someone could be a systemd fanboy |
| 16:48.14 | wmarone__ | kerio: please, spout more stupid shit |
| 16:48.25 | wmarone__ | DocScrutinizer05: so a verifiable and reproducible system is bad? |
| 16:48.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | wmarone__: please, spout more stupid shit |
| 16:49.54 | wmarone__ | DocScrutinizer05: no, I'm asking you a question. Your primary complaint seems to be that a platform could enforce a chain of trust, why is this a bad thing? |
| 16:50.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sorry for you that you're not able to understand how Trusted computing works and what it means when Poettering says >>mages that can be verified by a full trust chain from the firmware (EFI SecureBoot!), through the boot loader, through the kernel, and initrd.<< |
| 16:50.17 | wmarone__ | remember, the system is indepenent of those who would misusei t |
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| 16:50.34 | wmarone__ | so what you're saying is security is bad |
| 16:50.38 | bleb | Is there any option for supporting group texts on the N900? |
| 16:51.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism and ~aegis and "the HARMATTAN experience[TM]" why this is a bad thing |
| 16:51.18 | kerio | wmarone__: "chain of trust" is inherently bad for security |
| 16:51.38 | wmarone__ | kerio: so the better path is nothing at all? |
| 16:52.03 | kerio | bad security is worse than no security, yes |
| 16:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, there are like 5 dozen better alternatives |
| 16:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is what I said twice now |
| 16:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even nothing at all is better than TC |
| 16:52.56 | wmarone__ | and how are those 5 dozen other systems not also TC? |
| 16:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 16:53.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | 7me suggests Amazon, for finding a few good books |
| 16:54.16 | wmarone__ | "I'm not going to support my argument, go do it for me?" |
| 16:54.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | fckit |
| 16:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-09-01 Mon 18:43:58] <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-09-01 Mon 18:35:52] <DocScrutinizer05> I more than once explained that "you hold the keys" is a delusion regarding effectiveness, since it is not capable to implement more security than e.g. SElinux |
| 16:56.04 | wmarone__ | presumably SELinux would simply be one tool of many |
| 16:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | "I'm not going to fix my ignorance, you have to spoonfeed stuff to me" |
| 16:56.34 | wmarone__ | "why won't you just blindly accept what I say!" |
| 16:57.02 | wmarone__ | "no I won't engage you when you question my bitching!" |
| 16:57.18 | *** part/#maemo wmarone__ (~wmarone@c-24-10-24-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | "why don't you give me a crashcourse about IT security and Trusted computing in just 5 sentences?" |
| 16:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | "No, URL pointers to wiki et al are just not enough, I'm too lazy to do some reading on my own" |
| 16:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | "I heard 'SECURITY' buzzword, so it cannot be anything bad with it" |
| 17:01.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbS_lDJuJg |
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| 17:04.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's kind of an overkill, but restricting freedoms for the sake of security is like totalitarianism 101 |
| 17:04.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 17:05.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the whole chain of trust depends on somebody else (considered trustworthy) decided what's a trusted bootloader. Or the chain of trust is broken |
| 17:06.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | handing "the keys" to end user cripples the whole concept of chain of trust to a level where simple unix passwords work way better |
| 17:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | than that "Trusted computing" thing |
| 17:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | see HARM and aegis |
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| 17:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | originally they promised "ther will be open mode". Now there 'is', and it basically renders your system broken. That's not what I call open mode |
| 17:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Does anybody want this kind of 'security'? |
| 17:11.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | We got stuff like encrypted root filesystem since decades. We got posix permissions and SElinux. We got all sorts of passwords and permission handling. TC only brings *one* new concept to the game: depriving you of your rights to compromise your system whenever you decide to |
| 17:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the foundation concept TC is basing on. Take that out and all that's left over of TC is a pile of crap and annoyances |
| 17:14.19 | txt-file | yes, the producer ⦠at least it looks so |
| 17:18.26 | APic | DocScrutinizer05: Was that 7me intentional or inadvertently? |
| 17:35.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | failed on pressing shiftkey for "/" |
| 17:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | intended been "/me" |
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| 17:56.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, it seems http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html also sugests systemd becomes 2bootloader" now. And obviously *all* linux systems need btrfs now, or they won't be compatible to that new "package distribution system" |
| 17:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>And of course, this scheme also applies great to embedded use-cases. Regardless if you build a TV, an IVI system or a phone: you can put together you OS versions as usr trees, and then use btrfs-send-and-receive facilities to deliver them to the systems, and update them there.<< ROTFL |
| 18:01.53 | Pali | >> [18:37:38] <kerio> who's the trusted here << Factory of motherboard and SW/FW company |
| 18:02.00 | Pali | not user, no PKI holder |
| 18:02.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 18:02.10 | kerio | nice |
| 18:02.21 | Pali | and also no OS |
| 18:02.46 | drathir | nice reading... ty... |
| 18:03.35 | drathir | now stop like btrfs... |
| 18:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This also allows us to implement something that we like to call Operating-System-As-A-Virus.<< crack? Or vodka made from old bread and spiced with random pharma products? |
| 18:04.19 | NIN101 | why not both? |
| 18:05.17 | APic | DocScrutinizer05: I see, thank You for the Explanation. |
| 18:05.40 | drathir | dont like forceing something.... |
| 18:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>And you don't have to be afraid that any of your personal data is copied too, as the usr sub-volume is the exact version your vendor provided you with.<< I wonder how installing new apps fits into this statement |
| 18:06.19 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: I'm afraid that lennart want to use that btrfs subvolumes in systemd and because no other FS implement it btrfs could become dependency for systemd |
| 18:06.28 | Pali | and this is even worse |
| 18:06.41 | drathir | lol me like mine luks+lvm... |
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| 18:06.46 | kerio | that would be *great* |
| 18:06.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, it seems http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html also sugests systemd becomes 2bootloader" now. And obviously *all* linux systems need btrfs now, or they won't be compatible to that new "package distribution system" |
| 18:06.54 | kerio | people would stop using systemd |
| 18:07.03 | Pali | process with PID 1 that needs one FS is total nonsence |
| 18:07.12 | Pali | see it |
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| 18:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I agree about it being nonsense, nevertheless it seems that's *exactly* what the systemd cabal is about to shove down our throat |
| 18:09.12 | Pali | and now when all linux distributions (except gentoo and slackware) switched to systemd... they started listening to lennart and they will do what lennart say |
| 18:09.44 | Luke-Jr | which is why I'm migrating everything to Gentoo soon |
| 18:09.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's why we need to start acting *now* and actively denying to follow that poettering path any longer |
| 18:10.03 | NIN101 | he probably almost has more influence than linus these days |
| 18:10.23 | Pali | Luke-Jr: do you know situation and what gentoo developers want to do? |
| 18:10.39 | Luke-Jr | Pali: they continue to maintain a fork of udev |
| 18:10.50 | Pali | ok, this is good |
| 18:11.02 | Pali | and what will do with init daemon? |
| 18:11.18 | Pali | and with applications which depends on systemd (new gnome)? |
| 18:11.55 | Luke-Jr | no idea about GNOME nonsense; I'm happy not using it still |
| 18:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we can convince Linus to "fork" and either announce a poetterin-free "true linux", or simply forbid that crap on linux and force the whole systemd cabal to fork and do their own carrpy poettering-linux distro? |
| 18:12.14 | Luke-Jr | init remains sysvinit/init-ng/OpenRC |
| 18:12.16 | ShadowJK | https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bZId5j2jREQ/U-vlysklvCI/AAAAAAAACrA/B4JggkVJi38/w480-h320-no/bd0fb252416206158627fb0b1bff9b4779dca13f.gif |
| 18:12.29 | kerio | isn't openrc only a set of scripts |
| 18:12.40 | Luke-Jr | kerio: it works |
| 18:13.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | a set of scripts is the best you can get |
| 18:13.03 | kerio | no, i mean, don't you use openrc with another init? |
| 18:13.16 | kerio | or is /sbin/init actually a shellscript as well? |
| 18:13.19 | Luke-Jr | kerio: sysvinit and init-ng are also installed |
| 18:13.21 | kerio | oic |
| 18:13.26 | kerio | i thought it was just alternatives |
| 18:13.41 | Luke-Jr | /sbin/init: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped |
| 18:13.47 | kerio | Luke-Jr: how big? :) |
| 18:14.29 | Luke-Jr | 41K provided by sys-apps/sysvinit-2.88-r7 |
| 18:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if sbin/init shouldn't rather be statically linked |
| 18:14.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ew, no |
| 18:15.06 | kerio | besides, have you actually tried compiling something statically, nowadays? |
| 18:15.38 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: Gentoo has /bin/busybox static as a fallback |
| 18:16.02 | Pali | Luke-Jr: I heard that gentoo has support for systemd too... so you can choose which init daemon you want to use? (sysvinit/init-ng/openrc/systemd)? |
| 18:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>It's all the same. Installation becomes replication, not more. Live-CDs and installed systems can be fully identical.<< DANG those guys MUST have been on crack |
| 18:16.43 | Pali | kerio: I tried and small C applications (without too many external libraries) working fine |
| 18:16.53 | Luke-Jr | Pali: yes, it's a choice |
| 18:17.02 | Pali | kerio: and maybe using -flto will reduce size and speed up it |
| 18:17.04 | kerio | Pali: that's true in debian too |
| 18:17.16 | kerio | at least, it's true so far |
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| 18:17.30 | drathir | wonder when arch move back from systemd... |
| 18:17.57 | Pali | Luke-Jr: and how gentoo solving problem that every init daemon using its own format of daemon files (or there are only init.d scripts and every init daemon only using these)? |
| 18:17.58 | Luke-Jr | kerio: I don't see an eudev pkg in Debian experimental |
| 18:18.20 | Pali | or for every init daemon there is one script/config/systemd service? |
| 18:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: this quote is for you ;-P >>Any library that is not included in the runtime the developer picked must be included in the app itself. This is similar how apps on Android declare one very specific Android version they are developed against. This greatly simplifies application installation, as there's no dependency hell: each app pulls in one runtime<< |
| 18:18.36 | kerio | JESUS FUCKING CHRIST |
| 18:18.36 | Luke-Jr | Pali: I'm not sure init is supported outside of OpenRC |
| 18:18.46 | Luke-Jr | Pali: every daemon installs an init script and systemd service |
| 18:19.13 | ShadowJK | What's the point of libraries if they aren't shared :) |
| 18:19.20 | Luke-Jr | facepalms |
| 18:19.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAHA, asl Poettering |
| 18:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask* |
| 18:19.40 | kerio | you share them between the binaries of the same package? idk |
| 18:19.40 | Pali | Luke-Jr: ok, so packages have both files (openrc, systemd) and packagers need to provide them |
| 18:19.57 | Luke-Jr | Pali: for some definition of "need to" |
| 18:20.31 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: have these idiots never heard of libtool? |
| 18:20.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: NFC |
| 18:20.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~poettering |
| 18:20.57 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal |
| 18:21.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how do i tell icd to connect to the data connection? |
| 18:21.30 | kerio | pls don't say "dbus-something" |
| 18:21.46 | Pali | kerio: look at maemo wiki and search for Phone Control |
| 18:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sorry, I don't know off top of my head. Maybe ~usb-networking footnotwe helps |
| 18:21.55 | Pali | that page has that dbus-something described |
| 18:22.09 | Sicelo | hehe |
| 18:22.18 | kerio | ~phonecontrol |
| 18:22.18 | infobot | from memory, phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
| 18:23.01 | ShadowJK | poettering is the sinofsky of linux |
| 18:23.30 | Pali | or Elop of Nokia |
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| 18:24.50 | Pali | who is lennart's boss? |
| 18:25.13 | Pali | and who is lennart's boss boss? |
| 18:26.09 | Luke-Jr | anyone have any thoughts on the DragonBox Pyra? http://www.pyra-handheld.com/ |
| 18:26.11 | Pali | I still do not want to belive that all above lennart want this systemd stuff... |
| 18:26.56 | Pali | Luke-Jr: It has PowerVR⢠SGX544-MP2 |
| 18:27.02 | Pali | so no thanks |
| 18:27.04 | Luke-Jr | Pali: is that bad? |
| 18:27.27 | Pali | yes, everything from PowerVR gpu chips are the worst option |
| 18:28.12 | Pali | (closed) drivers will work only with one kernel version and only with one userspace libc/libX (replace X with any library) |
| 18:29.07 | Pali | see N900, we can be happy that powervr drivers working with stock kernel and also with kernel-power and even after installing CSSU |
| 18:29.12 | Luke-Jr | I guess there are some better options nowadays |
| 18:29.31 | Pali | yes, everything is better then PowerVR |
| 18:29.58 | Pali | if nothing more, closed drivers will work |
| 18:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you can't chose the GPU of your SOC |
| 18:30.13 | Pali | but this is not case of powervr |
| 18:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and pyra had to chose OMAP5 in the end |
| 18:30.53 | Pali | sadly, but if you do not need GPU then it is OK |
| 18:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pyra is supposed to work when sold, so they need to come up with somewhat open drivers for powervr or they need to make sure they don't need the GPU at all |
| 18:32.23 | Pali | anyway do you know some cheap SoC with two ethernet slots? (100M or better 1G) where is linux working? I need box for doing network magic, nothing more |
| 18:32.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, nope |
| 18:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | which doesn't mean a thing since I never checked |
| 18:33.27 | Pali | now for 60Mbps is my raspberry pi (with second usb ethernet card) working |
| 18:34.19 | Pali | but I think that this is limit (do not know if 70 or 100 is possible) |
| 18:35.09 | kerio | Pali: dreamplug |
| 18:36.10 | kerio | and usb 2.0 is probably capped at 100mbps at best |
| 18:36.55 | Pali | thanks |
| 18:37.03 | kerio | i have a sheevaplug |
| 18:37.13 | kerio | it's... good |
| 18:37.16 | kerio | i dunno |
| 18:37.17 | kerio | it sits there |
| 18:37.42 | Pali | 100mbps limit is theoretical, there is CPU overhead for iptables plus routing... so I'm happy that 60 is working... |
| 18:37.54 | kerio | i doubt the guruplug will have those limits |
| 18:37.58 | kerio | it's two gigE |
| 18:38.22 | kerio | 1.2GHz armv5 |
| 18:39.43 | Wizzup | Didn't the guruplug have heating problems when using both in 1Ghz mode? |
| 18:39.49 | Pali | I need linux kernel with enabled multicast routing support, 8021q (vlan tagging), ipv6 and ebtables+iptables |
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| 18:40.25 | Pali | all these requirements are SW, so I think it could work on any NIC which has linux driver |
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| 20:24.29 | bencoh | Pali: multicast on 802.1q interfaces can get funny sometimes |
| 20:24.38 | bencoh | it wont work at all on some NICs |
| 20:25.25 | Pali | bencoh: it working fine on rpi nic which is some usb chip... |
| 20:25.54 | bencoh | actually I think "the dumber the better" for that kind of usecases |
| 20:26.06 | bencoh | I had troubles with the cubox-i NIC |
| 20:26.58 | bencoh | I havent tried to fiddle with offloading options yet ... maybe there is one I need to disable for it to work |
| 20:29.45 | bencoh | (btw, it only has one ethernet NIC, but you might want to check it - nice board and cool devteam :) |
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