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| 06:38.01 | kerio | why didn't anyone tell RiD about kernel.deb's fiasco image |
| 06:38.09 | kerio | you guys fucking suck |
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| 07:22.30 | Humpelstilzchen | tell news |
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| 12:20.47 | drathir | mornin... |
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| 14:04.38 | jonwil | With the recent announcement by Microsoft that they are dropping support for Skype for Windows Phone 7, I wonder how long it will be before the N900 looses Skype... |
| 14:08.52 | freemangordon | jonwil: I don;t think we can do much |
| 14:09.27 | jonwil | yeah I know, I just wonder if there has been any sort of notice from MS about what might happen |
| 14:12.57 | freemangordon | TBH I am more concerned what will happen on linux desktop |
| 14:15.33 | jonwil | I haven't seen anything to suggest Microsoft would drop support for Skype on Linux desktop, they already reversed decision to abandon support for Mac OS 10.5.x and that OS has less user base than Linux |
| 14:16.48 | jonwil | Its a matter of how much work is required to support a platform vs how much the platform brings in benefits to MS |
| 14:17.18 | freemangordon | I doubt linux brings any benefit to MS |
| 14:17.35 | ShadowJK | The question is whether they needed extra effort on serverside for skype on w7 |
| 14:17.42 | freemangordon | quite the contrary |
| 14:18.59 | jonwil | The likely answer for MS is that they are retiring older Skype protocol variants and don't want to spend the engineering resources to update Skype for windows phone 7 to support the newer protocols |
| 14:19.26 | ShadowJK | Considering the pain it is to make anything for w7, it wouldn't surprise me if they had created custom protocol for w7 |
| 14:19.45 | dos1 | jonwil: well.. is Skype on N900 even supported anyway? |
| 14:20.04 | jonwil | Its not about whether its supported, its about whether it works |
| 14:20.12 | jonwil | and whether Microsoft makes a change somewhere that stops it working |
| 14:21.21 | jonwil | seems like they dont want to invest resources to update Skype on windows phone 7 so it will keep working |
| 14:25.45 | dos1 | yes, but with Skype on N900 being practically abandonned for quite a long time, it already can happen at any moment (and I'm actually surprised that it didn't earlier given that I seem to recall some incompatibilities introduced as a response to reverse engineering efforts) |
| 14:32.05 | Pali | I'm using skype only on n900 and today I got email (to address registred at skype account) from skype/MS "Your Skype for Linux version is being retired. Update today." |
| 14:32.29 | Pali | and they suggest me to update skype for linux to last desktop version... |
| 14:32.34 | Pali | hahaha no armel binary |
| 14:32.56 | ShadowJK | iirc skype on Maemo was originally criticized a bit because it was the full desktop protocol :) |
| 14:41.20 | kerio | pali! |
| 14:41.37 | Pali | ? |
| 14:41.40 | Pali | hi! |
| 14:41.43 | kerio | hi! |
| 14:44.30 | Pali | google abandoned xmpp (no audio/video calls from n900 to hangouts), MS going to abandon skype on n900 |
| 14:44.56 | Pali | so basically there will be no normal audio+video call support |
| 14:45.23 | kerio | the bitrot is real |
| 14:46.38 | freemangordon | Pali: is it possible to make google hangaouts working? is it open? (the protocol) |
| 14:46.46 | freemangordon | *hangouts |
| 14:46.50 | Pali | no closed source |
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| 14:47.13 | Pali | and all google clients are probably only wrapper around html5 code |
| 14:47.27 | Pali | so maybe it could be possible if somebody start hacking it |
| 14:47.29 | freemangordon | so, basically there is no option. what about FB? |
| 14:47.38 | dos1 | audio+video over xmpp should still work though, no need to use google for that |
| 14:47.43 | Pali | I have no facebook account --> no idea |
| 14:48.02 | freemangordon | I have, but never used it for anything else but chat |
| 14:48.04 | Pali | yes, our telepathy gabble should work for audio+video via xmpp |
| 14:48.11 | Pali | I fixed some problems, package is in CSSU-devel |
| 14:48.24 | Pali | it should work against gmail web plugin |
| 14:48.32 | Pali | (at least 2 months ago worked) |
| 14:48.34 | freemangordon | however, I guess maemo has bigger problems ARM |
| 14:48.42 | freemangordon | *ATM |
| 14:48.58 | freemangordon | like no CSSU updates since the stone age |
| 14:49.16 | freemangordon | wonders what has happened with merlin1991 |
| 14:49.44 | freemangordon | BTW. Pali: Hi and welcome back |
| 14:50.03 | Pali | hi :-) |
| 14:50.26 | freemangordon | Pali: hows your education going? did you take your exams? |
| 14:51.02 | Pali | I finished my bachelor thesis before deadline :-) |
| 14:51.08 | freemangordon | great :) |
| 14:51.12 | Pali | and all I have passed all exams |
| 14:51.32 | freemangordon | bravo man |
| 14:51.46 | freemangordon | so you are back to maemo? |
| 14:51.47 | Pali | now I have some free time, next month I have last final bachelor exam |
| 14:51.56 | freemangordon | great |
| 14:52.51 | freemangordon | Pali: BTW we should find merlin1991 somehow and decide on the future of CSSU. If such thing exists at all (the fufture) |
| 14:52.59 | freemangordon | *future |
| 14:53.09 | merlin1991 | turns up |
| 14:53.10 | Pali | ok, where is merlin1991? |
| 14:53.16 | freemangordon | OMG, he's alive |
| 14:53.18 | freemangordon | :D |
| 14:53.19 | Pali | :D |
| 14:53.43 | freemangordon | merlin1991: where you've been man, is everything ok with you? |
| 14:54.01 | merlin1991 | Will do the stable pre release today when my pc is up again |
| 14:54.15 | freemangordon | hooray :) |
| 14:55.13 | freemangordon | merlin1991: but honestly, I think we should appoint a meeting and decide on how shall all this continue |
| 14:55.19 | merlin1991 | I'm ok, only my free time is quite nonexistant ... |
| 14:55.26 | freemangordon | yeah :( |
| 14:55.51 | freemangordon | is there any chance the situation to improve? |
| 14:56.19 | plazmonii | wom 5 |
| 14:56.35 | merlin1991 | I'll try to get sixwheeled.. ready todo stable after this release |
| 14:56.51 | freemangordon | at least it will be good to give sixwheeled.. some clue on how to make releases |
| 14:57.11 | freemangordon | was slow with the typing |
| 15:00.49 | merlin1991 | I plan on setting up a pre release repo just like we have with testing-testing |
| 15:01.17 | merlin1991 | and then I'll give sixwheeled.. an intro how todo the metapackage and how to test it before releasing it to the wild |
| 15:01.53 | merlin1991 | that should prevent most simple errors from sneaking into the actual release |
| 15:02.26 | merlin1991 | but of course we managed to choose a time here on irc when he's offline |
| 15:03.10 | merlin1991 | as for testing, there we'll need a meeting and see if maybe someone else wants to pick that work up |
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| 15:26.33 | drathir | btw n900 cant videocall by gsm? |
| 15:26.59 | drathir | pidgin cant able do xmpp video/audio calls? |
| 15:27.28 | drathir | see old team in action again? |
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| 15:43.41 | Pali | drathir: n900 does not have support for gsm video calls |
| 15:44.15 | Pali | drathir: no idea what pidgin support, but I think it has some xmpp audio support (maybe video too) |
| 15:46.47 | drathir | Pali: hi thanks a lot... im mean that maybe will be good not connect with anv service like skype etc, but make direct one by xmpp? |
| 15:47.52 | Pali | google libjingle and xmpp jingle are p2p signaling protocols which could work also without server support... so you can use it also with @gmail.com account |
| 15:50.54 | Pali | just both clients need to support it |
| 15:53.35 | drathir | oh thats interesting... good if no server depend... |
| 15:59.45 | Pali | you need some server support for stun/ice/nat traverse |
| 15:59.53 | Pali | when you are behind nat/firewall |
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| 16:34.48 | drathir | Pali: oh sadly true... /me to much on ipv6... |
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| 17:21.51 | freemangordon | hmm, just tried skype video call from my n900 to ubuntu 12.04 (skype v4.3) and it seems to work without problems |
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| 17:59.41 | vuvekkk | Does exist FieldTest for N900? |
| 18:00.01 | vuvekkk | I know about netmon. |
| 18:00.45 | vuvekkk | But I am looking for something more advanced |
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| 20:54.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | I only wish my internet was good enough to react accordingly to what's going on behind the scenes - people sending mails to council like they were thr council's boss, and simply not stating what they actually are at all. @council, pleasedon't get fooled by win7mac telling you stuff about what HE thinks how maemo and council (and HiFo) works |
| 20:55.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | again: NOBODY instructs council what to do, except of maemo community as defined (called 'electorate') in council rules |
| 20:57.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | and all council activity and negotiations/discussions are generally *in the public* to get reviewed by everybody. No private mails from HiFo to council about how HiFo shall take over and coucil supposed to suurender |
| 20:57.55 | bencoh | stop worrying about maemo for a week or two, just enjoy - really :) |
| 20:58.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | win7mac has a prwtty fsckd up idea of responsibilities assigned to entities |
| 21:00.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | bencoh: do you think it's just a coincidence that such idiotic mails happen when I'm in holiday and supposed to be offline? |
| 21:01.53 | bencoh | hmmm |
| 21:04.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'd put that mail on public tmo thread right away, if only my internet woudn't suck donkeyballs. @council, whomever: please do!!! |
| 21:05.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | win7mac outright denies tht ouncil is the highest authority proxy of community and suggests coucil "shall accept rules of the eV" |
| 21:06.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | which is so weird I dunno words for it |
| 21:08.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | also HiFo always been meant to "handle the assets of maemo" which in my book is a synonym for the cashier role. First Rob tried to redefine HiFo to be uebr-council, now win7mac does |
| 21:08.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: haha he must be smoking some real good shit |
| 21:09.07 | kerio | HiFo is the council's bitch |
| 21:09.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | always been |
| 21:10.38 | *** part/#maemo mkaindl (~mkaindl@ama-dablam.markus-kaindl.de) |
| 21:11.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | but for win7mac reality splits into several parallel universes in which in one I claim that there are TWO councils, and in another one council dissolved when we actually unified it |
| 21:12.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | in a third council turned into some fractional entity of HiFo obeying wjatever HiFo board decides |
| 21:14.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | and in a fouty parallel universe, all this even makes sense to everybody with a sane mind |
| 21:14.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | while I scared away Rob due to me not undertsanding the perfect sense this makes |
| 21:16.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I just notice winUmac being *very* vocal and just 'hijacking' the less experienced novice council members |
| 21:16.53 | bencoh | :D |
| 21:19.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | I mean, what shit is that to show up on every council meeting and sending mails to council, always 'speaking in stern voice' lile you were the one to decide? |
| 21:19.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | while in fact you got no voice at all |
| 21:24.50 | Sicelo | freemangordon: on my N900 with KP52, CSSU-T, no O/C, I installed the tweaks for 720p videos. Since that day, I have noticed that video playback is bad -- many times N900 just shows the dots with nothing happening. FWIW, I'm not trying to play 720p videos (because i guess that's what really needs O/C). |
| 21:25.00 | Sicelo | any idea how i can debug what's up? |
| 21:29.30 | bencoh | what are those tweaks btw ? |
| 21:31.11 | Sicelo | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695 |
| 21:32.05 | Sicelo | i probably could just remove .. but would like to find out what's up |
| 21:34.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sicelo: first up check syslog |
| 21:35.15 | Sicelo | i saw reference to pulseaudio |
| 21:35.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | I see similar issue without any tweaks installed. Syslog often tells sth about 'can't instantiate dsp node' OWTTE |
| 21:36.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | PA also a good candidate, yes |
| 21:37.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | syslog is your best friend, just a tad verbous at times, with lots of noise and random stuff to ignore |
| 21:38.15 | Sicelo | ok. tbh, i don't play videos too often, so i've gleft this 'problem' alone for the last couple of months. but now i have a "need" to play videos on my N900 frequentyl |
| 21:38.28 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:50.45 | Sicelo | after reboot, all plays fine |
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| 21:53.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, this is a known issue caused by dsp shitting its pants, though I thought that got fixed long ago. PA might cause absolutely same symptoms though |
| 21:53.18 | Win7Mac | Open letter to the new council, topic: Community, Council, Board and the MC eV: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1435370#post1435370 |
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| 22:13.20 | Win7Mac | and no, that doesn't come just by coincidence when someone is on holiday, but from RzR's request during last meeting: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-08-05.log.html#t2014-08-05T23:21:10 |
| 22:21.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | o the NEW council. WTF? |
| 22:25.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | already the headline/subject insinuating that lesson-like tone the complete original amil had, to teach NEW councilors how stuff *really* works, from the lips of a prophet who just signs with his nickname to put the authorization of whole mail into right context |
| 22:26.09 | Win7Mac | it is my POV |
| 22:26.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | AHA! |
| 22:26.45 | Win7Mac | sure |
| 22:27.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | then why the fuck does it sound like it was from chair of HiFo? |
| 22:27.36 | Win7Mac | no clue? |
| 22:27.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | exactly. this is pretty obvious |
| 22:28.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | throughout the whole maill |
| 22:34.18 | Win7Mac | I signed with my full name + nick, no idea what "authorization" your speaking of ^^, never intended to speak on HiFos' behalf |
| 22:35.21 | Win7Mac | ...though they very likely agree ;) |
| 22:36.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, HiFo did NOT agree, even before your time. And you assuming they'd do agree now and writing your mail in a way as if they already did is a pretty rogue approach |
| 22:38.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | you rvidently lack lots of well documenteed historic background and compensate that by making up your own version of how the situation allegedly is and was |
| 22:39.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | we all appreciate your hard work to make the much needed eV come true |
| 22:39.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | but please do"mt try to redefine stuff to your liking |
| 22:40.16 | bencoh | looks like no harm intented then ;) |
| 22:40.30 | bencoh | -t+d |
| 22:40.36 | Win7Mac | then state your version so that others may make up their own mind and decide what to believe or not |
| 22:41.25 | Win7Mac | ...to my liking... funny... |
| 22:42.16 | Win7Mac | What interest do I have then, in your imagination? |
| 22:44.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | irrelevant |
| 22:44.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | "d 'my' version is well documented, publicly |
| 22:45.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you sentence by sentence, quoting links to original sources |
| 22:45.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | more than I already did |
| 22:46.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | more on that in roundabout three weeks when I might be back to this mess from my well deserved holiday |
| 22:54.12 | Win7Mac | and the others...? please share your thoughts! |
| 22:56.44 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~quassel@221.77.69.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 23:03.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe the most of 'the others' wait until they heard of more than only your persona POV before they share their thoughts. E.G. council might want to discuss this before answering, and that might happen on other channels than tmo |
| 23:10.31 | Win7Mac | aha, however it fits your liking I guess, but acusing me of acting "behind the scenes"... http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2014-08-09.log.html#t2014-08-09T23:54:17 |
| 23:14.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | blablabla |
| 23:14.56 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: right now I have no time to read the mail in question, probably will do it tomorrow. However, so far my understanding is that you think HiFo is some kind of what Nokia used to be for Maemo council back in the times Nokia supported Maemo. Which is plain wrong, IMO |
| 23:16.01 | freemangordon | HiFo is the organizational entity to officially represent the community. and that's all (simplified) |
| 23:16.41 | freemangordon | HiFo is not the council's boss, more like on the opposite |
| 23:17.01 | Win7Mac | ok, and council is? |
| 23:17.18 | freemangordon | again, IMO. And as you know I am not a lawyer, so I might be wrong as well |
| 23:17.31 | freemangordon | the council is defined on the maemo wiki |
| 23:17.35 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 23:17.48 | Win7Mac | sure. and that needs adoption |
| 23:18.00 | freemangordon | who decided that? |
| 23:18.03 | freemangordon | and when? |
| 23:18.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | says who? |
| 23:18.30 | Win7Mac | ...to reflect the situation?! |
| 23:18.45 | freemangordon | the only way one can redefine what maemo council is is a referendum, iirc the rules |
| 23:18.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 23:19.07 | Win7Mac | well, read the mail first then... |
| 23:19.14 | Win7Mac | in whole... |
| 23:19.17 | freemangordon | will do tomorrow |
| 23:19.24 | Win7Mac | thanks! |
| 23:19.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | but Win7Mac got told about that 3 dozen times already, he ignores it |
| 23:19.53 | freemangordon | I was just sharing thoughts about what I have heard from you so far |
| 23:20.19 | freemangordon | is afk for a while |
| 23:20.52 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, where did I ignore that, I'm actually suggesting a referendum! |
| 23:22.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | he first defines "the situation" as he sees it, then demands action from council taken to adoopt rules to match what he thinks is "the situation" and ignores that the council is bound to rules on what it can do |
| 23:24.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah a referendum approving your POV to be real and binding for council, and only as a last resort when council isn't willingto simply do rogue and ignore the council rules and follow *your tules* instead |
| 23:25.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | definitely afk/offine now |
| 23:25.41 | Win7Mac | what's wrong with "- specify council duties so that it remains the major active party of community work AND honours the fact that Nokia got replaced by our own community organization, not only in regards to board" |
| 23:30.00 | Win7Mac | freemangordon: correct, HiFo is not the council's boss, but council, as part of the organization, has to follow organizations' rules |
| 23:31.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, pretty much everything is wrong in that. I could start with explaining that council's responsibilities are defined and continue with elaborating about nonsense to "replace" Nokia - as freemangordon alrewady said. and so on. But whatt's a real problem with you: you can't accept a 'later please, busy now' |
| 23:34.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | you even go to insult people when they refuse to follow your requests instantly |
| 23:34.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | we're not your slaves |
| 23:35.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | and I'm not available now, particularly for this topic and for you, for the next 3 weeks |
| 23:35.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | o/ |
| 23:37.13 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:39.53 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: the council should follow its own rules, as defined by the community. However, I just read that mail and honestly, I am not sure what stands behind your wish to somehow redefine what is the cashierâs(HiFo) role and what is the executive's(the council) role. HiFo was established as an legal entity to represent the community where and when needed and that's all. It was never meant to be the driving force or to draw the future of the community. thi |
| 23:39.55 | freemangordon | s is the council's role. IIUC. Keep in mind that I may got confused by that wall of text and missed the idea |
| 23:43.32 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: And I still don't get it why moving HiFo from USA to Europe should make any difference in the regard on who does what. |
| 23:43.52 | freemangordon | s/ on / of / |
| 23:44.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | clearly must not |
| 23:44.44 | *** join/#maemo e2718 (~quassel@p4FD36B5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:44.45 | Win7Mac | who does what doesn't change |
| 23:44.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~xy |
| 23:44.51 | infobot | well, xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. |
| 23:46.18 | Win7Mac | and i don't mean to redefine what is the cashierâs(HiFo) role... |
| 23:47.02 | Win7Mac | But I don't see HiFo/MC eV as cashier only, that simply goes too short |
| 23:48.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | then you're simply mistakwn |
| 23:48.22 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 23:49.12 | freemangordon | anyway, I am going to have some sleep, will re-read that mail tomorrow with a more rested brain, maybe I will get the whole idea |
| 23:49.32 | freemangordon | night guys |
| 23:49.43 | Win7Mac | thanks fmg, nite o/ |
| 23:50.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | and when you don't beleive me and freemangordon and all the others who told you, ask woody who 'invented' HiFo |
| 23:50.17 | Win7Mac | lets continue this on tmo |
| 23:52.37 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05: no wonder you don't WANT to understand... |
| 23:54.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | pleqse stop that nonsense, it's not only bad style, it also heats up the channel temperature |
| 23:57.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | and it contributes absolutely ZILCH to resolve this issue which is YOU disagreeing with roundabouteverybody else (not just me) and alsol you ignore HiFo's own blogs, all tmo threads about HiFo and council and even deny to ask your peers in HiFo who most liely also do NOTagree with you onthis |
| 23:58.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | likely* |
| 23:59.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | "EIN geisterfahrer? HUNDERTE!!" |