| 00:49.16 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~user@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 01:05.10 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~user@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 01:13.10 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 01:16.55 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@50.107.28.148) |
| 01:46.03 | *** join/#maemo Humpelstilzchen (erik@e176053064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 02:01.52 | *** join/#maemo silviof2 (~silviof@unaffiliated/silviof) |
| 02:03.08 | *** join/#maemo Guest16118 (~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq) |
| 02:17.34 | *** join/#maemo tanty_off (~agomez@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 02:33.21 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B161088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:42.59 | *** join/#maemo jaykru (~jaykru@CN1-DSL-208-102-225-209.fuse.net) |
| 03:01.15 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@194-166-220-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 03:21.27 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 03:31.17 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 03:31.17 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 03:31.19 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 03:59.15 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 04:06.54 | *** join/#maemo protem (~protem@ks3100918.kimsufi.com) |
| 04:06.54 | *** join/#maemo protem (~protem@unaffiliated/protem) |
| 04:18.34 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 04:18.45 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 04:47.48 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@kurios.r4780y.com) |
| 04:55.33 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 05:14.53 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:18.10 | *** join/#maemo pdz- (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:42.47 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@192.194.199.34) |
| 05:45.41 | *** join/#maemo Trizt (~user@2a03:4000:2:20f::1) |
| 05:46.03 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@g224252192.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:09.02 | *** join/#maemo Ashley` (me@twilightsparkle.pl) |
| 06:11.43 | Ashley` | ~flasher |
| 06:11.43 | infobot | i heard flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ |
| 06:22.07 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@fhffm1223.nat.fh-frankfurt.de) |
| 06:26.22 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-123-138-238-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 06:28.49 | *** join/#maemo akeripper_ (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.customer.t3.se) |
| 06:30.28 | *** join/#maemo povbot_ (~supybot@office.pov.lt) |
| 06:31.01 | *** join/#maemo Natch_h (~Natch@c-0ecce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:31.40 | *** join/#maemo NIN101_ (~core@n900.quitesimple.org) |
| 06:31.42 | *** join/#maemo Malinux_ (~quassel@125.37-191-130.fiber.lynet.no) |
| 06:32.06 | *** join/#maemo lbt_ (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 06:33.09 | *** join/#maemo fil (~phil@switch.hands.com) |
| 06:33.22 | *** join/#maemo Scorcere1 (scor@czlug.icis.pcz.pl) |
| 06:33.23 | *** join/#maemo oniongar1ic (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 06:33.23 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 06:33.34 | *** join/#maemo pigeon_ (~pigeon@eth5284.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net) |
| 06:33.42 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440_ (~thedead14@unaffiliated/thedead1440) |
| 06:33.44 | *** join/#maemo peterbjo1nx (~peterbjor@5248AA73.cm-4-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 06:33.54 | *** join/#maemo script_ (~script@scriptkiller.de) |
| 06:34.20 | *** join/#maemo japa-fi_ (~jani@dsl-hkibrasgw4-50dc4f-215.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:34.42 | *** join/#maemo ab_ (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 06:34.51 | *** join/#maemo drawkula (~username@gilgamesch.twilightparadox.com) |
| 06:34.54 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:36.05 | *** join/#maemo Venusaur (~wdwrwf@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 06:36.31 | *** join/#maemo thedead1440 (~thedead14@unaffiliated/thedead1440) |
| 06:36.48 | *** join/#maemo totalizator (~totalizat@89-69-49-198.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 06:37.17 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 06:39.42 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:45.27 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~Milhouse@xbmc/staff/milhouse) |
| 06:45.32 | *** join/#maemo japa-fi (~jani@dsl-hkibrasgw4-50dc4f-215.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:00.27 | *** join/#maemo goldkatze (~nobody@unaffiliated/goldkatze) |
| 07:02.07 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@host-92-28-91-191.as13285.net) |
| 07:26.34 | *** join/#maemo jmlich (jmlich@nat/redhat/x-jqxrearwhjwjclio) |
| 07:38.40 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 07:50.00 | Maxdamantus | Hm. So dumping/restoring el-v1.db didn't fix it. Looked like it only saved one message afterwards for that person. |
| 07:50.13 | Maxdamantus | but it saves messages for other contacts. |
| 07:51.43 | Maxdamantus | What sort of corruption is it said to actually be? |
| 07:53.24 | Maxdamantus | corruption because the program is stupid (so produces tables it doesn't understand), or because sqlite3 has bugs, or because the file itself corrupts (from the filesystem)? |
| 07:55.18 | *** join/#maemo RedW (~redw@89-73-179-171.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 07:56.19 | Maxdamantus | I guess another form could be where sqlite3 leaves the database in an inconsistent state if the program exits for some reason .. dunno if the rt-messaging thing does that. |
| 07:57.11 | Maxdamantus | assuming sqlite3 doesn't use some transactional system to prevent that. |
| 07:58.56 | *** join/#maemo ult (~root@16.61.19.37.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru) |
| 07:59.54 | *** join/#maemo hurrian (~hurrian@112.205.11.95) |
| 07:59.54 | *** join/#maemo hurrian (~hurrian@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 08:09.10 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:11.27 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 08:11.41 | *** part/#maemo ult (~root@16.61.19.37.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru) |
| 08:11.57 | Maxdamantus | Mm .. without replacing the el-v1.db file at all, just killing the process using it (so it restarted), it saved some messages that were resent (by the networkânot sure how the protocol works there). |
| 08:12.15 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@147.99.218.243) |
| 08:13.16 | Maxdamantus | Just one message. |
| 08:22.29 | Maxdamantus | Could there be a 200-message limit? |
| 08:23.09 | Maxdamantus | The contact has 202 for read_events in GroupCache |
| 08:23.36 | Maxdamantus | and the last field, "CONSTRAINT factor UNIQUE(service_id, group_uid)" is 1, unlike all the others, which are 0. |
| 08:24.37 | Maxdamantus | Maybe it intends to delete earlier messages after 200, which could be triggering some bug. |
| 08:33.11 | Maxdamantus | Don't think so. |
| 08:52.02 | *** join/#maemo KotCzarny (ariel@ip-94-42-39-114.multimo.pl) |
| 08:52.03 | KotCzarny | hi |
| 08:52.38 | KotCzarny | my n900's clock is speeding at a rate 2min/week, is there any automatic fix for it that doesn't include ntpd? |
| 08:53.15 | bencoh | I'd love an opinion on that as well |
| 08:53.26 | KotCzarny | i could use cron, but maybe there is an app already done? |
| 08:55.18 | bencoh | a cron for that sounds ugly |
| 08:55.54 | KotCzarny | my first thought was that first i measure how fast it speeds up then fix it once per day |
| 08:56.25 | KotCzarny | and cron is doable, ugly but doable |
| 08:56.49 | kerio | KotCzarny: are you sure the drifting doesn't depend on clock speeds? |
| 08:57.02 | bencoh | clock is speeding, so you'll go back in time everyday |
| 08:57.06 | bencoh | definitely sounds bad :p |
| 08:57.14 | KotCzarny | kerio, im not changing clock speed, at leAst im not using it actively |
| 08:57.20 | kerio | blindly removing two minutes for each week doesn't seem like a good idea |
| 08:57.30 | kerio | you are changing clock speed all the time |
| 08:57.36 | kerio | between 0 and 500 |
| 08:57.47 | KotCzarny | kerio, but it's quite consistent that i have to fix the clock manually by 1-2 minutes every 2-3 weeks |
| 08:57.52 | kerio | ok |
| 08:58.22 | KotCzarny | that's why fixing it via cron is better than me having to click it through menus |
| 08:58.43 | KotCzarny | and since it's required periodically... |
| 08:59.04 | KotCzarny | otherwise, is there any tool to get time via gsm network? |
| 08:59.27 | kerio | there should be something like that already in the settings |
| 08:59.33 | kerio | but it depends on your network |
| 08:59.39 | kerio | it doesn't work at all for me |
| 08:59.44 | kerio | (h3g italy) |
| 09:00.08 | KotCzarny | i'm on 'plusgsm', but automatic time never worked for me |
| 09:00.27 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 09:00.36 | KotCzarny | weird, it worked when i enable it right now |
| 09:00.39 | kerio | you could use gps |
| 09:00.43 | KotCzarny | maybe network got some upgrade |
| 09:00.52 | KotCzarny | gps fix is.. well.. slow? |
| 09:00.54 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:01.06 | kerio | but free |
| 09:01.17 | kerio | and it works even in the middle of the sahara desert |
| 09:01.22 | KotCzarny | nothing is free, you pay in battery charge |
| 09:01.41 | bencoh | definitely |
| 09:01.52 | KotCzarny | still, weird as it is, it got time from gsm network now |
| 09:02.01 | bencoh | gsm network clock update doesnt seem to work for me either |
| 09:02.06 | bencoh | (france sfr) |
| 09:05.24 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink (quassel@nat/redhat/x-pisftkalhtfliypz) |
| 09:07.00 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 09:07.16 | KotCzarny | weird there is no tool to get gsm network time/date |
| 09:07.35 | kerio | it's not something you can poll for, i think |
| 09:07.59 | KotCzarny | AT+CCLK? |
| 09:08.25 | kerio | i dunno |
| 09:08.31 | KotCzarny | it's not a question |
| 09:08.43 | kerio | well |
| 09:08.44 | KotCzarny | it's the command that modems can use |
| 09:08.46 | kerio | sudo pnatd |
| 09:12.22 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 09:12.32 | *** join/#maemo jmlich (jmlich@nat/redhat/x-dyrnqkcpjquprcgw) |
| 09:13.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: there's no cron on maemo |
| 09:13.14 | KotCzarny | doc: that's easily fixable |
| 09:13.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | check 'alarmed' |
| 09:13.21 | kerio | *alarmd |
| 09:13.26 | kerio | oh no you mean the addition |
| 09:13.57 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aacs24.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 09:14.27 | KotCzarny | i can even write something like: while [ 1 ]; do fix_clock; sleep 1209600; done |
| 09:14.34 | KotCzarny | and run it once per startup |
| 09:16.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | AT+CCLK probbaly reads the modem's internal cmos clock, not the network's notion of time |
| 09:17.10 | KotCzarny | could be |
| 09:17.22 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:17.25 | KotCzarny | found it |
| 09:17.34 | KotCzarny | standard linux command to fix time |
| 09:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | network sends time/date via some sort of broadcast |
| 09:17.55 | *** join/#maemo jmlich (jmlich@nat/redhat/x-cghlxexwvdsqgmho) |
| 09:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I stronly deprecate use of adjtime |
| 09:18.17 | KotCzarny | what do you propose instead? |
| 09:18.25 | kerio | ntp :) |
| 09:18.29 | KotCzarny | mind you, i don't want to pay for network usage |
| 09:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, but first of all check what's your system's CMOS clock in relation to system clock |
| 09:19.03 | KotCzarny | not to mention it would have to enable network, fix time, disable network, and run periodically |
| 09:19.17 | KotCzarny | n900 has cmos clock? |
| 09:19.21 | KotCzarny | since when? |
| 09:19.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 09:19.32 | KotCzarny | every time i remove battery time is lost |
| 09:19.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it even has power-up on cmos alarm |
| 09:20.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can set an alarm in maemo osso-clock and then switch down the device. Will power up in time to make alarm yell |
| 09:20.31 | kerio | KotCzarny: it's because the backup battery is known to fail |
| 09:20.32 | KotCzarny | that i know |
| 09:20.47 | KotCzarny | kerio, then it was failed fresh from factory |
| 09:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | so how do you think that works without a cmos aka hw clock? |
| 09:20.56 | kerio | KotCzarny: eyup, something like that |
| 09:21.11 | KotCzarny | doc: low power subsystem that's independent from device? |
| 09:21.23 | KotCzarny | but powered by the same battery and connected via gpios ? |
| 09:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka cmos clock ;-) |
| 09:21.37 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:21.38 | kerio | it's just the hardware clock |
| 09:21.42 | kerio | as opposed to the software clcok |
| 09:21.44 | kerio | *clokc |
| 09:21.45 | kerio | fuck |
| 09:21.47 | KotCzarny | ok, hwclock should work then? |
| 09:21.49 | kerio | clock |
| 09:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and not connected viy gpio but integrated into twl4030 |
| 09:21.50 | kerio | yeah |
| 09:21.56 | KotCzarny | kerio: cluck? |
| 09:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | hwclock should work, yes |
| 09:22.07 | kerio | once you know the correct time, hwclock --sys-to-hw |
| 09:22.13 | kerio | modulo correct option name |
| 09:22.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | correct |
| 09:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | though you don't need that, I guess the maemo settings for time already does it |
| 09:22.51 | KotCzarny | i think it returns same time as system |
| 09:23.33 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 09:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | man hwclock |
| 09:23.56 | KotCzarny | just checked and time in system changed the same moment as in hwclock -r |
| 09:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's that notorious /etc/adjtime file |
| 09:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel however has "11 minute mode" |
| 09:24.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, see man hwclock |
| 09:25.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and man ntpd or somesuch |
| 09:25.36 | KotCzarny | busybox's hwclock is limited |
| 09:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you never do a hwclock --sys-to-hw on system shutdown. you only may do this when you just adjusted system time to the correct time |
| 09:26.43 | KotCzarny | i hever did hwclock on n900 before |
| 09:27.19 | KotCzarny | still i have /etc/adjtime |
| 09:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you garble your correction factor in /etc/adjtime file, you will be in for *really* nasty effects, like time of by centuries on every boot |
| 09:27.59 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | garbling that factor is easy when doing hwclock --sys2hc on a system with incorrect system time |
| 09:29.07 | KotCzarny | gotta try hwclock's solution in following month |
| 09:29.12 | KotCzarny | to see if it's viable solution |
| 09:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why your initscripts MUST NOT use hwclock --sys2hc on shutdown |
| 09:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas most linux distros do exactly that nevertheless |
| 09:29.52 | KotCzarny | do n900's default scripts use hwlock? |
| 09:29.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno |
| 09:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not in the deprecated way |
| 09:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | they will probably use hwclock --hw2sys on boot |
| 09:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | or that's all managed by closed blob nokia timed |
| 09:33.53 | *** join/#maemo newbieAlert (~AndChat30@106.221.139.171) |
| 09:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | err clockd |
| 09:35.25 | *** join/#maemo ult (~root@16.61.19.37.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru) |
| 09:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /etc/init.d/hwclock |
| 09:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | fuuuUUUuuuu... |
| 09:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | stop() |
| 09:36.30 | KotCzarny | eheheh |
| 09:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | { |
| 09:36.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:36.56 | KotCzarny | gotta disable it too |
| 09:38.13 | KotCzarny | 4 years in use and found only now? |
| 09:38.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# hwclock;date |
| 09:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Thu Jul 17 11:37:59 2014 0.000000 seconds |
| 09:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Do., 17. Jul. 2014 11:37:58 CEST |
| 09:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | consistently a 1s late systime to cmos clock |
| 09:39.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could try setting systime via settings and then check if cmos clock got updated too |
| 09:40.14 | KotCzarny | http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1362546 |
| 09:40.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | immediately after, 10min after |
| 09:40.17 | KotCzarny | also nice |
| 09:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? why IP? |
| 09:40.33 | KotCzarny | dont know, google result |
| 09:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | never use google results with IP in them |
| 09:40.59 | KotCzarny | if im looking for info i'm now afraid |
| 09:41.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly don't post those links anywhere |
| 09:41.06 | KotCzarny | for software, yes |
| 09:44.03 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 09:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually, thanks to the broken bupbat, you never should use hwclock --sys2hc with adjusting function of scew factor in /etc/adjtime |
| 09:51.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why is tmo responding to an ip address? |
| 09:51.27 | kerio | instead of rightfully answering 404? |
| 09:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | next time you remove battery and adjust time after booting up, you will introduce an adjustment factor of ~14 years per hour |
| 09:52.11 | KotCzarny | doc, i rarely had to remove battery |
| 09:52.23 | KotCzarny | so hwtime could work |
| 09:52.30 | KotCzarny | assuming it gets it's data right |
| 09:53.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | then when you shut down your device for 10h and boot it up again, your hw clock will receive an adjustment of 140 years into the future |
| 09:54.38 | KotCzarny | we will see |
| 09:54.45 | kerio | :D |
| 09:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | now figure you correct those 140 years and hwclock gets to know of it ;-P |
| 09:54.54 | kerio | best phone ever |
| 09:55.00 | kerio | also doubles as a time machine |
| 09:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | try to find out what the correction factor will be after you turning back system time by 140 years |
| 09:55.40 | KotCzarny | pity ntpdate is in extras-devel still |
| 09:56.14 | KotCzarny | i guess most regular debian packages should be in extras |
| 09:56.27 | KotCzarny | at least those console ones |
| 09:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tell you about correction factor: it involves time between last time you adjusted hwclock and this time you adjust hw clock, and those 140 years difference |
| 09:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus some more math magic |
| 09:57.49 | kerio | KotCzarny: "ntpd -q" does the same thing |
| 09:58.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can't you just rm /etc/adjtime? |
| 09:58.18 | KotCzarny | hwclock -w creates it |
| 09:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really since it also has TZ |
| 09:58.31 | kerio | no, that's /etc/localtime |
| 09:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 09:58.41 | KotCzarny | isnt timezone in /etc/timezone ? |
| 09:58.58 | kerio | it's /etc/localtime that's a symlink to the appropriate zoneinfo file |
| 09:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | something like that is in rtc/adjfile as well |
| 09:59.05 | kerio | which can be in /etc/zoneinfo, /usr/share/zoneinfo |
| 09:59.19 | KotCzarny | right, zoneinfo |
| 09:59.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I usually end up copying a clean template adjtime file to the real one on each boot |
| 09:59.47 | KotCzarny | erm, /etc/timezone in slackware |
| 10:00.03 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:00.23 | KotCzarny | ntpd: not found |
| 10:00.24 | KotCzarny | :P |
| 10:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:01.28 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink (quassel@nat/redhat/x-yfjhmjoughwoyvva) |
| 10:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you don't use that, everything fine I guess |
| 10:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even always use --noadjfile plus other needed parameters for -utc or whatever |
| 10:03.56 | KotCzarny | btw. hwclock is ran only on boot |
| 10:04.10 | KotCzarny | so it's not the 2min/2weeks b0rking factor |
| 10:05.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 10:05.17 | KotCzarny | it's not ran via cron or anything |
| 10:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /etc/init.d/hwclock |
| 10:05.32 | KotCzarny | so it won't fix/change the time on running device |
| 10:06.00 | KotCzarny | unless one would calibrate it and run it periodically |
| 10:06.12 | KotCzarny | which is going back to cron resolution |
| 10:06.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, that's why I suggested to check if your RTC is more accurate than sysclock, which quite usually is the case |
| 10:06.37 | KotCzarny | my rtc is synced with system time |
| 10:07.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you probably have something like "automatic time by GSM" enabled |
| 10:07.21 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 10:07.49 | KotCzarny | could it be that some system package syncs time from rtc periodically? |
| 10:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | then nothing in system SHALL sync hw clock to sysclock on a regular basis |
| 10:08.07 | KotCzarny | it's your guess or you've checked all the code? |
| 10:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | *from* RTC, that may actually be |
| 10:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's mere deduction |
| 10:08.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2119 |
| 10:08.36 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 10:09.06 | KotCzarny | ~rtc |
| 10:09.06 | infobot | hmm... rtc is implemented transparently unless sa1100-rtc is loaded. hwclock unnecessary. |
| 10:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think sysclock simply stalls when CPU goes into deep suspend |
| 10:09.39 | KotCzarny | but then rtc should deviate from systime |
| 10:09.52 | KotCzarny | could it be that something syncs time when waking up? |
| 10:09.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | which it does for me, by 1s |
| 10:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, of course |
| 10:10.16 | KotCzarny | 1s could be ioport access delay or something |
| 10:10.24 | KotCzarny | as its consistent |
| 10:10.29 | KotCzarny | check in a week to confirm |
| 10:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | not when the later invoked system time is 1s *behind* |
| 10:12.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall that on a true suspend a linux system reads out RTC, calculates difference to sysclock, and resets the sys clock to RTC+difference on resume |
| 10:12.10 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's not exactly a sync |
| 10:12.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure no adjustment of RTC |
| 10:12.46 | KotCzarny | s/sync/adjust/ |
| 10:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | but again, that's for true suspend-to-ram etc |
| 10:13.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | which maemo isn't supposed to do |
| 10:13.31 | KotCzarny | one would have to check kernel patches for n900 |
| 10:13.58 | KotCzarny | n900 uses armel, right? |
| 10:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless maemo / omap3 stops master system clock when CPU goes idle, so obviously sysclock will stall as well |
| 10:14.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | armel, right |
| 10:14.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's aslo an adjust field for sysclock |
| 10:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | somewhere in kernel |
| 10:15.13 | KotCzarny | that's what hwclock uses probably |
| 10:15.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | to make all jiffies and whatnot have better accuracy |
| 10:15.21 | KotCzarny | as adjtime is a linux c call |
| 10:15.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5,2 adjtime yes |
| 10:15.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like that |
| 10:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it only operates for drift in master system clockgenerator (28MHz?) |
| 10:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so only adjusts sysclock accuracy while sysclock actually running |
| 10:18.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gather a PM kernel has patches to read out RTC pretty frequently to update sysclock after master-CPU-clock(damn the ambiguity between clock=watch and clock=oscillator) got stopped for a second or an hour |
| 10:20.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: anyway, two facts seem to hold true: nothing in system should adjust the RTC unless you set time manually or from external higher stratum source (e.g. GPS, GSM, ntp) |
| 10:21.15 | KotCzarny | yeah, 'nothing SHOULD' |
| 10:21.33 | KotCzarny | but apparently time drifts noticably |
| 10:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you probably can set up ntp in a way to frequently adjust sysclock to RTC |
| 10:22.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously the /etc/init.d/hwclock stop is BS |
| 10:22.31 | KotCzarny | it only has a chance to b0rk the time on reboot |
| 10:22.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | cargo cult coding |
| 10:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | read what I wrote, about when to expect RTC getting adjusted, and patch /etc/init.d/hwclock stop. Then get a alarmed job that does a hwclock --hctosys once a day |
| 10:24.11 | KotCzarny | offtopic, can i remap eur key to | |
| 10:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~kbd |
| 10:24.37 | infobot | Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ |
| 10:24.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~leete kbd |
| 10:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn, why can't i recall that factoid name |
| 10:25.21 | KotCzarny | ~keyboard |
| 10:25.21 | infobot | methinks keyboard is The main input device on PCs, it consists of all the letters in the alphabet and the numbers 0 through 9. Usually, especially on computer keyboards, there are extra keys like cursor keys and function keys. |
| 10:25.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio to the rescue! |
| 10:25.32 | KotCzarny | ~remap |
| 10:26.06 | kerio | i wat |
| 10:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | leete kbd mapping |
| 10:26.15 | kerio | ~vikbd |
| 10:26.19 | KotCzarny | btw. infobot is wrong, my keyboard doesn't have all keys from MY alphabet |
| 10:26.20 | kerio | or something |
| 10:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like that |
| 10:26.24 | kerio | it was vi___'s keyboard layout |
| 10:26.43 | kerio | KotCzarny: your alphabet is wrong, then! |
| 10:26.53 | KotCzarny | localizations hell |
| 10:26.55 | KotCzarny | as usual |
| 10:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys vi kbd |
| 10:27.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys vi*kbd |
| 10:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~vi-kbd |
| 10:27.25 | infobot | rumour has it, vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping |
| 10:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo kbd is <reply>see vi-kbd |
| 10:27.59 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 10:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~kbd |
| 10:28.04 | infobot | methinks vi-kbd is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping |
| 10:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | once and for all now |
| 10:28.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 10:28.50 | KotCzarny | you have just removed old info: <infobot> Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ |
| 10:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~_default kbd |
| 10:29.06 | infobot | Keytable files and keyboard utilities. URL: ftp://ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/linux/utils/kbd/ |
| 10:29.40 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 10:29.49 | KotCzarny | i have to recompile kernel to use that map? |
| 10:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope! |
| 10:30.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 10:30.04 | KotCzarny | good |
| 10:30.09 | KotCzarny | looked like so for a moment |
| 10:30.28 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 10:30.52 | teotwaki | 'sup |
| 10:30.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>WARNING! This article assumes you have read the main article on remapping keyboard!<< |
| 10:31.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>You need to edit this file on your N900: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51<< |
| 10:32.06 | KotCzarny | Do not place the copy in the nokia_vndr folder or it will stop your phone from booting |
| 10:32.10 | KotCzarny | :P |
| 10:32.16 | KotCzarny | this is more important |
| 10:32.17 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 10:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | **the copy** |
| 10:33.07 | KotCzarny | yeah, and how editors usually make backups of edited files? |
| 10:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're not suposed to use such editor on system files |
| 10:33.45 | KotCzarny | not true |
| 10:33.57 | KotCzarny | vi IS the unix editor for system files |
| 10:34.11 | KotCzarny | though on linux it usually makes no backups |
| 10:34.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I never seen vi do a filename~ or whatever in hte dir of the editied source by defualt |
| 10:35.09 | KotCzarny | still, i usually make a copy with .orig extension before i start to break things |
| 10:35.14 | *** join/#maemo clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
| 10:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | tjere's quite a number of dirs in a linux system that are not tolerant to creating bogus files in them |
| 10:35.42 | joga | I do get .file.swp when editing something with vim.. |
| 10:36.00 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer05 vi creates a .$FILENAME.swp by default |
| 10:36.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a pretty bad behavior |
| 10:36.55 | teotwaki | why? You shouldn't use files that begin with . in a glob search. |
| 10:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | eh?? |
| 10:37.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that paradigm related to e.g. etc/rc3/* ? |
| 10:38.00 | teotwaki | ls /etc/rc3/* |
| 10:38.02 | teotwaki | doesn't list dotfiles |
| 10:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet init is pretty happy about that |
| 10:38.35 | teotwaki | init shouldn't load files that begin with a dot |
| 10:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't |
| 10:38.46 | teotwaki | and AFAIK, it doesn't. |
| 10:38.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | pff |
| 10:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's generally a poor idea to mess in system dirs with tools you don't completely understand how they work |
| 10:39.37 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink_afk (quassel@nat/redhat/x-bdpzedmjyaobbull) |
| 10:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't think I feel tempted to read the source of whatever kbd mapping related code to know if it will care about /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/.$FILENAME.swp |
| 10:41.56 | KotCzarny | i thinks its not about filenaming |
| 10:42.02 | KotCzarny | but just scanning files in dir |
| 10:42.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 10:42.11 | teotwaki | if it uses a POSIX wildcard, it won't pick it up. |
| 10:42.18 | KotCzarny | and looking for code blocks that match |
| 10:45.02 | teotwaki | anyway, good chat. |
| 10:45.09 | teotwaki | 'later. |
| 10:45.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 10:46.06 | *** join/#maemo zGrr (~G@37.31.86.219.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 10:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw NOKIA_vndr and POSIX? really now? ;-P |
| 10:46.36 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 10:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway thanks for pointing at the general posix rule regarding that. didn't know such rule exists |
| 10:48.50 | zGrr | moin :) |
| 10:54.00 | norayr | hey, people... my second n900's usb eventually broken. can I transfer contacts to n810? (while battery still alive) |
| 10:54.41 | federico3 | damn usb connectors |
| 10:54.51 | KotCzarny | noray: bluetooth? |
| 10:54.56 | KotCzarny | wifi? |
| 10:55.03 | KotCzarny | sd card? |
| 10:55.49 | norayr | yes, I can transfer abook.db, but is format compatible? |
| 10:55.52 | norayr | I can scp it. |
| 10:55.58 | KotCzarny | lol, after reboot it shows more battery than before |
| 10:56.05 | norayr | I guess db format is incompatible. |
| 10:56.19 | KotCzarny | export contacts to .vdb ? |
| 10:56.37 | KotCzarny | or .vcard |
| 10:56.45 | KotCzarny | dont remember what is the standard |
| 10:57.06 | norayr | hm, vdb keeps all contacts in one file? |
| 10:57.35 | KotCzarny | what i meant, is there an option in phonebook to export contacts to file? |
| 10:58.15 | KotCzarny | woo-haaah! i have tilde mapped to blue-z and pipe to blue-c |
| 10:58.33 | KotCzarny | now i can type shell commands like a pro! |
| 11:00.13 | KotCzarny | yeah, you can export contacts as .vcard |
| 11:00.29 | KotCzarny | it should be one file |
| 11:00.38 | KotCzarny | but you can also zip it or cat it into one file |
| 11:00.47 | KotCzarny | and import anywhere |
| 11:00.51 | KotCzarny | even on adroid etc |
| 11:01.06 | KotCzarny | unless n810 doesn't know about .vcard |
| 11:01.15 | KotCzarny | then just parse it to the format it knows |
| 11:01.22 | KotCzarny | or look for vcard importer |
| 11:02.43 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:03.05 | KotCzarny | btw. you should try bluetooth method first though |
| 11:04.39 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@arnet.am) |
| 11:04.42 | norayr | thank you |
| 11:04.42 | KotCzarny | though i cant see to massively send all contacts via bt |
| 11:06.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's called sync |
| 11:07.31 | KotCzarny | when i see 'sync' i think that it will delete some data |
| 11:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | send data, receive data, sync |
| 11:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | are the tree options to chose from, in "Sync" |
| 11:08.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | under settings |
| 11:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | three* |
| 11:09.17 | KotCzarny | where is this sync option? |
| 11:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | in settings |
| 11:09.33 | KotCzarny | contacts->settings? |
| 11:09.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 11:09.45 | KotCzarny | unintuitive! |
| 11:10.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? how are calendar entries related to contacts? |
| 11:10.35 | KotCzarny | how are calendar entries related to settings? |
| 11:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | via "Sync" |
| 11:11.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 11:11.15 | KotCzarny | settings relate to app idelogically, not to the data |
| 11:11.16 | KotCzarny | :P |
| 11:11.30 | KotCzarny | that's why it's unintuitive |
| 11:11.41 | KotCzarny | and he clearly meant contacts |
| 11:11.47 | KotCzarny | not calendar entries |
| 11:11.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | good enough for me |
| 11:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | send patches to Nokia! |
| 11:13.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and sorry, there is no option to only sync birthdays of all contacts between 30 and 40 years old |
| 11:13.41 | KotCzarny | bah |
| 11:14.01 | KotCzarny | i never enter birthdays on my phone |
| 11:14.17 | KotCzarny | though i often enter street names in username field |
| 11:14.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, we will create a special version for you that doesn't sync birthdays then |
| 11:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw you also could use default backup app to create a set of tarballs that also contain contacts in vcard format |
| 11:16.48 | KotCzarny | it wont be any use for n810 though |
| 11:16.50 | KotCzarny | right? |
| 11:16.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never tried it |
| 11:18.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's probably easy enough to extract the plain vcard files from the tarball, to import them on 90% of existing PDA-alike devices |
| 11:19.01 | KotCzarny | but not on the n810 |
| 11:19.11 | KotCzarny | as it only allows importing ONE contact at a time |
| 11:19.12 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:19.29 | KotCzarny | that's why bt method could be the only viable one |
| 11:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I dunno |
| 11:28.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never tried it |
| 11:29.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | might offer bulk inport as well, either for multiple files or for a concatenated file |
| 11:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never used contacts much on diablo |
| 11:35.20 | teotwaki | My initial n900 still has its usb intact |
| 11:35.27 | teotwaki | no idea how it survived all this time |
| 11:35.53 | KotCzarny | teotwaki: same here |
| 11:36.20 | teotwaki | especially considering it's my girlfriend's main driver |
| 11:36.25 | teotwaki | has been for years now |
| 11:36.30 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:36.37 | teotwaki | and she's not the... gentle type when she has to plug it in |
| 11:36.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | same here (typing with usb attached is kinda PITA though) |
| 11:36.43 | KotCzarny | btw. debian's armel ntpdate works without a hitch on n900 |
| 11:37.11 | KotCzarny | i had to unpack it manually though |
| 11:37.17 | KotCzarny | i hate dependency hell |
| 11:37.47 | zGrr | Linux is a mess. |
| 11:38.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | not re!ly |
| 11:38.04 | teotwaki | Linux? |
| 11:38.50 | zGrr | I think so. I think that dependency hell is mostly a linux issue. |
| 11:39.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | teotwaki: MXR yours? (sorry I always forget) |
| 11:39.19 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer51: mxr? |
| 11:39.33 | KotCzarny | zgrr, ehehe, ever seen winsxs on win vista/7 ? |
| 11:39.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh then prolly not |
| 11:39.41 | teotwaki | zGrr: you mean the windows or apple way of statically linking everything and their brother is such a "cleaner" way? |
| 11:39.57 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer51: think we had this discussion already |
| 11:40.04 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer51: I had maemo-archive.wedrop.it |
| 11:40.04 | KotCzarny | every app on win 7 has it's OWN copy of libraries |
| 11:40.06 | teotwaki | which is dead now |
| 11:40.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless: mxr is 'empty' |
| 11:40.22 | zGrr | teotwaki: I don't know Windows, nor Apple. |
| 11:40.44 | KotCzarny | apple is like nokia |
| 11:40.51 | teotwaki | zGrr: so your observation of "Linux is a mess" is based on your knowledge in... what? Exactly? |
| 11:40.55 | KotCzarny | they got freebsd and patched it to hell in their own way |
| 11:41.14 | zGrr | teotwaki: I don't remember having as many problems with FreeBSD. |
| 11:41.39 | teotwaki | Most probably because FreeBSD is still maintained, no? |
| 11:41.50 | zGrr | teotwaki: I work mostly with z/OS, where problem is non existing. |
| 11:42.03 | KotCzarny | well |
| 11:42.10 | teotwaki | isn't z/OS Linux? |
| 11:42.10 | KotCzarny | you mismatch categories |
| 11:42.17 | KotCzarny | bsd is NOT freebsd |
| 11:42.24 | KotCzarny | and linux is not * linux |
| 11:42.33 | KotCzarny | so you are comparing apples to oranges |
| 11:42.42 | teotwaki | ah no, I'm confused with Linux for zServer or something along those lines |
| 11:42.49 | zGrr | teotwaki: I also think that it could be properly addressed in Linux. It's a question of priorities. |
| 11:43.01 | KotCzarny | it's a question of maintainers |
| 11:43.03 | KotCzarny | only |
| 11:43.05 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:43.59 | KotCzarny | still, ntpdate binary works |
| 11:44.06 | teotwaki | zGrr: again, you're lobbing "Linux is a mess", as if there is only "One True Way" to manage dependencies. I think Debian's way is good. Fedora/CentOS' isn't bad either. It's when you start having users doing stupid things, such as installing badly packaged software, or software packaged for other versions, adding random repositories, that things go apeshit. |
| 11:44.07 | KotCzarny | it's only packaging that's incompatible |
| 11:44.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/introduction.html |
| 11:45.01 | zGrr | teotwaki: yes, we also have Linux on zServers. Linux on Z is a great example of wonderfuly working virtualization. |
| 11:45.03 | teotwaki | If you run a "clean" Debian install, you'll *never* encounter dependency issues. Same on CentOS. (Fedora being a bit more bleeding edge might have a few issues sometimes) |
| 11:45.06 | KotCzarny | isn't 'usability' the main point of having soft/hardware? |
| 11:45.25 | KotCzarny | teotwaki: ever tried 'testing' ? |
| 11:45.30 | teotwaki | aye |
| 11:45.40 | teotwaki | never went for sid, though. |
| 11:45.41 | KotCzarny | it borks 100% after a few weeks |
| 11:45.55 | KotCzarny | and constantly mismatches autoremove packages |
| 11:45.57 | kerio | has been running a sid home server for close to three years now |
| 11:45.58 | teotwaki | can't say I encountered that problem, and ran with it for over 3 years as my daily driver |
| 11:46.03 | kerio | literally no problems |
| 11:46.15 | kerio | and i tinkered with it quite a bit, too |
| 11:46.23 | teotwaki | Though I switched to Fedora a few months ago. |
| 11:46.24 | zGrr | teotwaki: yes, you're right. it is a question of a packaging system. |
| 11:46.28 | *** join/#maemo plazmonii (plazmonii@marla.ludost.net) |
| 11:46.34 | KotCzarny | still |
| 11:46.43 | KotCzarny | i like my device working |
| 11:46.44 | *** join/#maemo TheOnlyJoey|desk (~thorworks@a83-163-168-77.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 11:46.46 | KotCzarny | and doing things i want |
| 11:46.49 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | Ohai |
| 11:46.58 | KotCzarny | even if i break it few times |
| 11:47.04 | kerio | haiyo |
| 11:47.38 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | using Easy Debian, i am getting a 'chroot: cannot execute su: Exec format error' when trying to boot the chroot image, any clue what could fix that? |
| 11:47.55 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | on n900 btw |
| 11:47.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe ask in #debian ? |
| 11:48.00 | zGrr | teotwaki: one of my colleagues still uses Slackware. He says, he uses Slackware because it's the only Linux distro that doesn't upset him. |
| 11:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 11:48.11 | KotCzarny | joey, bad arch? |
| 11:48.17 | KotCzarny | uses slackware |
| 11:48.26 | teotwaki | zGrr: well, whatever "works", really. |
| 11:48.26 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | KotCzarny, not that i am aware of |
| 11:48.31 | KotCzarny | i have installed 4.0 many years ago |
| 11:48.38 | KotCzarny | still use the same installation |
| 11:48.53 | KotCzarny | just do pkg updates sometimes |
| 11:49.10 | KotCzarny | good luck on debian with that :P |
| 11:49.29 | teotwaki | zGrr: I love how stable Debian is, even on testing. These days, I'm on fedora because I need the newer software, and I'm running hardware that's not quite supported just yet. |
| 11:49.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never used easydeb so esxcuse my ignorance: *boot* the chroot image?? |
| 11:49.51 | KotCzarny | for hardware you just need custom kernel, right? |
| 11:50.36 | teotwaki | KotCzarny: I guess, couldn't be bothered after a while. |
| 11:50.40 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | hmm, is the most recent kernel for the n900 2.6.28-omap1 on armv71? |
| 11:50.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically yes |
| 11:51.16 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 11:51.30 | KotCzarny | has 2.6.28.10-power52 |
| 11:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's same version |
| 11:51.44 | KotCzarny | is it? |
| 11:51.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2.6.28 |
| 11:51.58 | KotCzarny | .10 |
| 11:52.09 | KotCzarny | it could be few heaps of bugs better |
| 11:52.28 | Wizzup | I don't know how easy debian does it, do they use loop mounts? |
| 11:52.45 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | hmm the image i am trying to boot is armhf, should that be compatible? |
| 11:52.50 | KotCzarny | no |
| 11:52.56 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | Wizzup, well the mounting goes allright, indeed using loop |
| 11:52.59 | KotCzarny | armel for n900 |
| 11:53.10 | KotCzarny | unless you use custom kernel |
| 11:53.19 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | KotCzarny, ah so thats my problem then -_- |
| 11:53.24 | KotCzarny | and in chroot you deefinitely need armel |
| 11:53.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | TheOnlyJoey|desk: again: BOOT? |
| 11:53.41 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | DocScrutinizer05, boot? |
| 11:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think you boot a chroot |
| 11:54.03 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:54.06 | KotCzarny | well |
| 11:54.07 | Wizzup | You don't "boot" a chroot, you execute a program in it with a root changed |
| 11:54.11 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | meh symantics |
| 11:54.18 | KotCzarny | i can imagine booting a chroot |
| 11:54.46 | KotCzarny | all it does is mounting few shortcuts and starting few services |
| 11:55.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | aahyes, you can execute init in a chroot |
| 11:55.39 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | hmm so it seems my options are using a outdated squeeze or a outdated wheezy |
| 11:56.10 | KotCzarny | easygentoo? |
| 11:56.10 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 11:56.19 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | KotCzarny, i prefer something working :) |
| 11:56.20 | KotCzarny | could be hardcore though |
| 11:56.34 | KotCzarny | you can always build system from a scratch |
| 11:56.47 | KotCzarny | all you need is few basic packages |
| 11:57.06 | KotCzarny | or just grab some preprepared ramdisk |
| 11:57.10 | KotCzarny | and butcher it |
| 11:57.20 | TheOnlyJoey|desk | meh going for the 2012 wheezy image then |
| 11:58.59 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.211.82.70) |
| 12:00.37 | KotCzarny | as for rebuilding, you can run distcc in a scratchbox on some powerfull machine |
| 12:01.09 | kerio | Wizzup: well, you "boot" it by mounting the appropriate stuff and running eventual daemons you want |
| 12:02.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or running init? |
| 12:02.14 | Wizzup | Possibly, I only ever mount /proc /sys /dev and just start bash. |
| 12:02.23 | Wizzup | I don't need X etc from it |
| 12:02.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:02.44 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: I was going to put a gentoo chroot on an sd card |
| 12:02.52 | Wizzup | Since I have ready-built binaries anyway |
| 12:03.04 | Wizzup | (gentoo on sd in the n900, obviously) |
| 12:03.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:04.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if next kernel update on his PC could use kexec instead of a reboot ;-P |
| 12:04.23 | KotCzarny | i pity that nokia didn't opt for using plain x11 with gestures to add touch functionality (system menus, taskbar etc) |
| 12:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess that will nuke all process and filehandle tables |
| 12:04.50 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 12:04.57 | KotCzarny | kexec is starting anew |
| 12:05.02 | KotCzarny | you just skipp bios phase |
| 12:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: ;-) |
| 12:06.43 | KotCzarny | k, time synced, we will see how much i have to change time in a week |
| 12:25.31 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~foo@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 12:47.41 | *** join/#maemo erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.208) |
| 12:51.00 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@fsf/member/b1101) |
| 13:01.27 | *** join/#maemo jon_y (~enforcer@2001:e68:4052:ee00:e01f:8e6d:cdca:d0e5) |
| 13:13.55 | *** join/#maemo DrCode (~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode) |
| 13:16.08 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:20.00 | *** join/#maemo AndChat|300564 (~AndChat30@203.109.100.165) |
| 13:35.54 | Maxdamantus | init sometimes doesn't want to run in a "chroot" |
| 13:36.12 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: ever tried ksplice? |
| 13:36.13 | KotCzarny | only if it needs to be pid 1 |
| 13:36.18 | Maxdamantus | particularly, some init systems behave differently or refuse to work if pid != 1 |
| 13:36.20 | teotwaki | or kgraft for that matter |
| 13:39.13 | Maxdamantus | Those supposedly only work for particular changes. |
| 13:39.20 | Maxdamantus | hasn't looked into how they actually work. |
| 13:39.45 | Maxdamantus | but it has to do with applying patches that actually can be applied, to the running kernel. |
| 13:40.00 | KotCzarny | but most of the time init is superfluous on a working system |
| 13:40.04 | KotCzarny | ie. chrooted one |
| 13:40.42 | Maxdamantus | much of init systems seems to be superfluous. |
| 13:42.47 | teotwaki | Maxdamantus: I'm not quite sure about that |
| 13:43.14 | teotwaki | Maxdamantus: I know we've been running ksplice in production for a few years, no matter the kernel change, you just need to spend a bit of (CPU) time diff'ing the running kernel and the new one. |
| 13:43.46 | teotwaki | I just have absolutely no first hand experience, and was wondering from a personal computer standpoint if there was any point or not at all. |
| 13:43.51 | Maxdamantus | teotwaki: but you probably can't just use arbitrary kernels. |
| 13:44.03 | teotwaki | Maxdamantus: define arbitrary kernels? |
| 13:44.53 | Maxdamantus | teotwaki: switch to a kernel specified by something in the mainline tree. |
| 13:45.18 | Maxdamantus | specified by a mainline tree* |
| 13:45.47 | Maxdamantus | At best, you'll be able to apply parts that are flagged as applicable. |
| 13:45.55 | KotCzarny | k, bye folks |
| 13:46.00 | *** part/#maemo KotCzarny (ariel@ip-94-42-39-114.multimo.pl) |
| 13:46.08 | Maxdamantus | You can't just say, replace the running ext4 driver with a new one. |
| 13:46.20 | Maxdamantus | without remounting the filesystems. |
| 13:46.58 | Maxdamantus | unless something says the changes are applicable. |
| 13:47.34 | Maxdamantus | It seems to be focused on providing security patches. |
| 13:47.38 | Maxdamantus | not switching between kernels. |
| 13:48.08 | Maxdamantus | âAn evaluation against Linux kernel security patches from May 2005 to May 2008 found that Ksplice was able to apply fixes for all the 64 significant kernel vulnerabilities discovered in that intervalâ |
| 13:48.56 | teotwaki | Hmm |
| 13:48.58 | teotwaki | "While kGraft is, by choice, limited to replacing whole functions and constants they reference, this does not limit the set of code patches that can be applied significantly. kGraft will offer tools to assist in creating the live patch modules, identifying which functions need to be replaced based on a patch, and creating the patch module source code." |
| 13:48.59 | Maxdamantus | âFor patches that do introduce semantic changes to data structures, Ksplice requires a programmer to write a short amount of additional code to help apply the patchâ |
| 13:49.03 | Maxdamantus | So it's fairly ad-hoc. |
| 13:49.16 | teotwaki | So it would appear both kgraft and ksplice do impose limitations on what can or can't be patched. |
| 13:54.25 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.148.58.234) |
| 13:56.30 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@213.233.104.37) |
| 13:58.01 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@nat.de.netviewer.com) |
| 14:17.07 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman|Mobile (~yaaic@178.138.35.68) |
| 14:18.03 | kerio | teotwaki: you can't ksplice linux and turn it into hurd |
| 14:18.16 | kerio | unless you do it veeeeery gradually, i guess |
| 14:19.55 | timeless | DocScrutinizer51: yeah, i need to look into that |
| 14:19.57 | timeless | soryr |
| 14:20.01 | timeless | been fairly busy |
| 14:21.05 | timeless | consider the investigation started |
| 14:22.37 | *** join/#maemo DrCode (~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode) |
| 14:26.06 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777_ (~foo@172.56.33.6) |
| 14:29.21 | *** join/#maemo troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-dev/x-4757952) |
| 14:31.22 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:31.29 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@fiq.se) |
| 14:38.49 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 14:39.56 | *** join/#maemo SAiF (~SAiF@117.196.136.243) |
| 14:41.37 | *** join/#maemo fk_lx (~fk_lx@37.187.81.152) |
| 14:41.43 | *** join/#maemo flynx (~flynx@70-139-50-84.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:47.36 | *** join/#maemo RiD (~RiD@188.251.163.40) |
| 14:49.49 | *** join/#maemo Malinux (~quassel@unaffiliated/malin/x-8072090) |
| 14:53.10 | *** join/#maemo RiDD (~RiD@188.251.163.40) |
| 14:56.30 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.148.58.234) |
| 14:56.51 | *** join/#maemo goldkatze_ (~nobody@unaffiliated/goldkatze) |
| 14:58.25 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@231.Red-83-47-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:58.26 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 14:59.52 | timeless | DocScrutinizer51: ok, so, the data directory for mxr seems to be missing |
| 15:00.02 | timeless | we'll see about investigating |
| 15:01.37 | *** join/#maemo ab_ (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 15:03.41 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 15:05.15 | *** join/#maemo e2718 (~hdesk@p4FC143FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:07.28 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:07.41 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@64.237.51.169) |
| 15:11.18 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:16.35 | *** join/#maemo ludens (~user@91.108.183.74) |
| 15:18.32 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you're in the council, lol |
| 15:29.10 | *** join/#maemo bluelupo (~quassel@2a02:810d:1600:7f0:e2cb:4eff:fe8b:b2f1) |
| 15:39.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | timeless: thanks |
| 15:40.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: yeah, I'm a jackass, no? |
| 15:41.35 | kerio | you done fucked up now! |
| 15:42.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | eh? |
| 15:42.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | please rephrase |
| 15:42.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | I done wut? |
| 15:46.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | I been almost done with maemo yesterday already, when tmo mod htheb - instead of moving thread with 4 mouseclicks according to my request - went to epic length of writing a 100 char post to explin that I'm pestering mods |
| 15:46.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | spamming, actually |
| 15:48.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | after jalyst explained me in public and PM that it's my duty to ask mods for such thread move |
| 15:50.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe it's not too late to hold the record for the shortest council term participation ever? |
| 15:52.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | when I hurry I may manage to step down before juiceme managed to post the official election results |
| 15:52.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | would that count as a negative timespan? |
| 15:54.38 | kerio | :D |
| 15:54.51 | kerio | juice already sent the mail to the ML |
| 15:55.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | dang! |
| 16:01.31 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777_ (~foo@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 16:24.43 | *** join/#maemo e2718 (~hdesk@p4FC143FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:36.21 | *** join/#maemo SAiF1 (~SAiF@117.196.143.160) |
| 16:52.07 | *** join/#maemo felipe` (~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe) |
| 16:53.43 | *** join/#maemo Guest61367 (~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq) |
| 17:04.25 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc65310-basf8-2-0-cust204.12-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:11.24 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc65310-basf8-2-0-cust204.12-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:12.14 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@107.191.35.237) |
| 17:12.14 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@fsf/member/b1101) |
| 17:14.11 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:49.47 | *** join/#maemo bugzy (~bugzy@99-191-138-94.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:13.23 | *** join/#maemo MikaT (~mtapoja@projects.sse.fi) |
| 18:25.08 | *** join/#maemo totalizator (~totalizat@89-69-49-198.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 18:36.35 | *** join/#maemo jaykru (~jaykru@CN1-DSL-208-102-225-209.fuse.net) |
| 18:41.27 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 18:42.19 | *** join/#maemo mkaindl (~mkaindl@ama-dablam.markus-kaindl.de) |
| 18:46.50 | louisdk | Has it been discussed to make a mobile version of tmo? |
| 19:06.20 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-46-223-128-122.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:10.51 | sixwheeledbeast | louisdk:http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88475 |
| 19:18.46 | louisdk | sixwheeledbeast, the good thing about a website optimized for mobile is that it could be used on other platforms like Sailfish. Sadly that app is only for Maemo/MeeGo. |
| 19:22.38 | sixwheeledbeast | louisdk: I agree a mobile skin would be good. Tapatalk was talked about too. TBH in microB TMO works fine. |
| 19:24.15 | louisdk | sixwheeledbeast, I have to zoom a lot on mobile browser, but is doable :) |
| 19:37.25 | *** join/#maemo Mike11 (~Mike@unaffiliated/mike11) |
| 19:39.52 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:42.50 | *** join/#maemo flynx (~flynx@70-139-50-84.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:55.48 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-69-176.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 19:59.11 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAEEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:05.11 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@107.191.36.19) |
| 20:05.12 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@fsf/member/b1101) |
| 20:40.56 | Snafu777_ | Wtf |
| 20:41.05 | Snafu777_ | Ok, so i create my own application |
| 20:41.19 | Snafu777_ | usr/share/applications/hildon/x.desktop |
| 20:41.38 | Snafu777_ | /opt/usr/share/pixmaps/x.png |
| 20:41.46 | Snafu777_ | For one application it is done as root:root for chown |
| 20:41.52 | Snafu777_ | that application works dandy |
| 20:42.02 | Snafu777_ | now that i tried this one as root:root, it doesnt wanna f'in launch |
| 20:42.05 | Snafu777_ | what gives |
| 20:42.16 | Snafu777_ | How can one permission set for all root work just fine, and the other doesnt |
| 20:48.10 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@arnet.am) |
| 20:50.24 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:57.47 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:00.48 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:10.17 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 21:30.36 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:52.56 | bencoh | hmm, I feel like tklock is all buggy |
| 21:53.01 | bencoh | (reading the source) |
| 21:53.11 | bencoh | time_t g_notifications_mtime; |
| 21:53.17 | bencoh | (no initialization) |
| 21:53.21 | bencoh | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:53.27 | bencoh | (further down the code) |
| 21:53.50 | bencoh | but g_notifications_mtime is never set as far as I can tell |
| 21:54.04 | bencoh | that's probably not the only bug, but ... |
| 22:09.46 | sixwheeledbeast | bencoh: is this stock tklock? |
| 22:18.50 | *** part/#maemo mkaindl (~mkaindl@ama-dablam.markus-kaindl.de) |
| 22:21.47 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 22:24.41 | sixwheeledbeast | bencoh: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/osso-systemui-tklock/source/2f72c1718e53d2ae2506fa37cad9d4195850114a:debian/changelog you can also git diff with the stock branch to see fmg's fixes. |
| 22:28.37 | bencoh | I'm already reading master from there |
| 22:31.23 | bencoh | do we have original (stock) source ? |
| 22:31.34 | arcean | hmm nope |
| 22:31.43 | arcean | but original tklock is even more buggy |
| 22:31.53 | bencoh | well it certainly is |
| 22:32.04 | arcean | with lots of memory leaks |
| 22:32.14 | bencoh | yup, that's what I was hunting for ;) |
| 22:32.39 | bencoh | but looks like I wont find much without source |
| 22:32.43 | arcean | actually cssu tklock is/should be leaks-free :P |
| 22:32.49 | bencoh | haha |
| 22:32.59 | bencoh | dunno, havent tried it ... I hope so though |
| 22:33.03 | bencoh | is it in cssu-testing ? |
| 22:33.13 | arcean | yup |
| 22:33.57 | bencoh | I guess I really should upgrade to testing on that phone ... |
| 22:34.21 | arcean | or to thumb edition |
| 22:34.33 | bencoh | indeed |
| 22:35.32 | bencoh | is current thumb rebased on current testing as well ? |
| 22:35.35 | bencoh | or on current stable ? |
| 22:36.06 | arcean | on testing, sometimes with slightly newer versions of packages |
| 22:50.20 | *** join/#maemo DarkFox (~DarkFox@CAcert/DarkFox) |
| 22:50.57 | bencoh | hmm ookay, looks like installing osso-systemui-tklock_0.3.1.1 (dpkg -i) prevents (stable) systemui menu from working |
| 22:51.00 | bencoh | strange |
| 22:51.14 | bencoh | tklock does work though |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo jaykru (~jaykru@CN1-DSL-208-102-225-209.fuse.net) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo totalizator (~totalizat@89-69-49-198.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo MikaT (~mtapoja@projects.sse.fi) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo ludens (~user@91.108.183.74) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.148.58.234) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.211.82.70) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Natch (~Natch@c-0ecce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo povbot_ (~supybot@office.pov.lt) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Ashley` (me@twilightsparkle.pl) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@37.203.30.204) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo guerby (~guerby@ip165-ipv6.tetaneutral.net) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo BlackBox__ (~FR@bth-203-2.tm.net.my) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo g3kk3r (torrkull@lehtori.cc.tut.fi) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-34-252.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Titilambert (~titilambe@titilambert.org) |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Raimu (rmaunula@tuomi.oulu.fi) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo strohalm (~smoofi@unaffiliated/strohi) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-075-177-048-091.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo Haudegen (~quassel@85.124.51.57) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo phlixi (~phlixi@ppp-88-217-105-229.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo netkat (~me@80.79.126.176) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo federico3 (~federico@li132-10.members.linode.com) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo Jaffa (~andrew@badger.bleb.org) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo ant__ (~ant@static.124.15.9.5.clients.your-server.de) |
| 22:53.10 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 22:53.33 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 22:53.33 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo DrCode (~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo plazmonii (plazmonii@marla.ludost.net) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink_afk (quassel@nat/redhat/x-bdpzedmjyaobbull) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo amizraa (~amizraa@gateway/tor-sasl/amizraa) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo sledges (~sledges@unaffiliated/sledgeas) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo deepy (~deepy@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo jyrjyr (~jyrjyr@mail.turvamies.fi) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo Katajakasa (~katajakas@ip-51-208-241-80.static.contabo.net) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo bencoh (~bencoh@unaffiliated/bencoh/x-184637) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo till (~till@vispillo.org) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo brolin_empey (~brolin@brolin.be) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo kov (~kov@debian/developer/kov) |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#maemo mpthx (~quassel@mx.laglab.org) |
| 22:53.42 | *** join/#maemo ketas- (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo basiaf (~basiaf@mefri.de) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo Mekkis (~Mekkis@nl.ti4200.info) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo Xjs|moonshine (moon@chrysostomos.aoide.de) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo useretail (useretail_@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sxtqpiozebligqsv) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo rosseaux (~BeRo@2a00:1828:2000:859::2) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo raijin (~raininja@unaffiliated/raijin) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo warfare (~falk@kilbeggan.fourecks.de) |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo fizzie (fis@unaffiliated/fizzie) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo DrCode (~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo mickname (mickname@low6.kyla.fi) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo mattaustin (mattaustin@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-dgokywbbilytnmtg) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo ashley (~ashley@MediaWiki/Jack-Phoenix) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo misv_ (~ms@h-62-144.a259.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo T_X (~T_X@open-mesh.org) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo Ras_Older (blank@hajotus.net) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo honestly (~luke@unaffiliated/luketheduke) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#maemo sfa_ (~sfa@208.66.156.12) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo APTX (~APTX@unaffiliated/aptx) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo APic (apic@apic.name) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo jormungandr (~henry@213.23.120.114) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~Psi@49-50-247-217.a.hd.net.nz) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B161088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@kurios.r4780y.com) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo script_ (~script@scriptkiller.de) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo RedW (~redw@89-73-179-171.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo jon_y (~enforcer@2001:e68:4052:ee00:e01f:8e6d:cdca:d0e5) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo fizzie (fis@unaffiliated/fizzie) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo warfare (~falk@kilbeggan.fourecks.de) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo raijin (~raininja@unaffiliated/raijin) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo rosseaux (~BeRo@2a00:1828:2000:859::2) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo useretail (useretail_@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sxtqpiozebligqsv) |
| 22:58.11 | *** join/#maemo Xjs|moonshine (moon@chrysostomos.aoide.de) |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#maemo Mekkis (~Mekkis@nl.ti4200.info) |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#maemo basiaf (~basiaf@mefri.de) |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#maemo mpthx (~quassel@mx.laglab.org) |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#maemo kov (~kov@debian/developer/kov) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo brolin_empey (~brolin@brolin.be) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo till (~till@vispillo.org) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo bencoh (~bencoh@unaffiliated/bencoh/x-184637) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Katajakasa (~katajakas@ip-51-208-241-80.static.contabo.net) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo jyrjyr (~jyrjyr@mail.turvamies.fi) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo deepy (~deepy@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo sledges (~sledges@unaffiliated/sledgeas) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo amizraa (~amizraa@gateway/tor-sasl/amizraa) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo mhlavink_afk (quassel@nat/redhat/x-bdpzedmjyaobbull) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo plazmonii (plazmonii@marla.ludost.net) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo janemba_ (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (~ssvb@212.16.98.80) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo ant__ (~ant@static.124.15.9.5.clients.your-server.de) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Jaffa (~andrew@badger.bleb.org) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo federico3 (~federico@li132-10.members.linode.com) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo netkat (~me@80.79.126.176) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo phlixi (~phlixi@ppp-88-217-105-229.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Haudegen (~quassel@85.124.51.57) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-075-177-048-091.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo strohalm (~smoofi@unaffiliated/strohi) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Raimu (rmaunula@tuomi.oulu.fi) |
| 22:58.13 | *** join/#maemo Titilambert (~titilambe@titilambert.org) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo darkschneider (~gab@93-32-34-252.ip31.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo g3kk3r (torrkull@lehtori.cc.tut.fi) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo BlackBox__ (~FR@bth-203-2.tm.net.my) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo guerby (~guerby@ip165-ipv6.tetaneutral.net) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@37.203.30.204) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo Ashley` (me@twilightsparkle.pl) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo povbot_ (~supybot@office.pov.lt) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo Natch (~Natch@c-0ecce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.211.82.70) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.148.58.234) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo ludens (~user@91.108.183.74) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo MikaT (~mtapoja@projects.sse.fi) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo totalizator (~totalizat@89-69-49-198.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo jaykru (~jaykru@CN1-DSL-208-102-225-209.fuse.net) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo DarkFox (~DarkFox@CAcert/DarkFox) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@arnet.am) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo b1101 (~b@fsf/member/b1101) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-69-176.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo Mike11 (~Mike@unaffiliated/mike11) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-46-223-128-122.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 22:58.14 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo bugzy (~bugzy@99-191-138-94.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc65310-basf8-2-0-cust204.12-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo felipe` (~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo ab (~ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo goldkatze_ (~nobody@unaffiliated/goldkatze) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo Malinux (~quassel@unaffiliated/malin/x-8072090) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo aloril_ (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo ult (~root@16.61.19.37.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aacs24.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~Milhouse@xbmc/staff/milhouse) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-193-180.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo drawkula (~username@gilgamesch.twilightparadox.com) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo oniongar1ic (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo Scorcere1 (scor@czlug.icis.pcz.pl) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo fil (~phil@switch.hands.com) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo NIN101_ (~core@n900.quitesimple.org) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo akeripper_ (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.customer.t3.se) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@194-166-220-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo tanty (~agomez@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo silviof (~silviof@unaffiliated/silviof) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo Humpelstilzchen (erik@e176053064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:58.15 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@89.106.52.253) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo ecc3g (blc@2602:46:3913:b600:5054:ff:fe37:7e04) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (~rm_work@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@c-50-152-210-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo Maxdamantus (~Maxdamant@2001:470:f078::dead:beef:cafe) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo jaska (jaska@a575.ip18.netikka.fi) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo (Sicelo@gets.high.on.ircspeed.net) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo xkr47 (xkr47@2001:14b8:141:5926:5358:9793:2384:6264) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@cs181033081.pp.htv.fi) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo fortytwo (~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo vakkov (~vakko@84.54.169.50) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_Atwork (~KhertanAt@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo erstazi (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo XDS2010_ (sid1218@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iaiphuxbnlngzhmn) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (marat@wsip-184-180-40-182.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo chadi (chadi@unaffiliated/chadi) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo r00t|home (~r00t@port-92-196-16-207.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (~doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo grinsekatze (~andreas@unaffiliated/grinsekatze) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo RP_ (~richard@5751ab90.skybroadband.com) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo soltys (soltys@soltys.info) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo TTilus (terotil@idan.ihme.org) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo jayne (~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo discopig (~pig@unaffiliated/discopig) |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@idle.ircing.org) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo Veggen (~vegard@engen.priv.no) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo yosafbridge (~yosafbrid@192.241.198.49) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@unaffiliated/realitygaps) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo elias_a (elias@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo chem|st (~mayor@svn.unix-ag.uni-kl.de) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo dvoid_ (~quassel@h66n14-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo rZr (~RzR@82.236.136.171) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@Maemo/community/council/qwazix) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo robink (~quassel@unaffilated/robink) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo joga (ag8x2McT@unaffiliated/joga) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@78-69-146-252-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo `0660 (olli@37.16.104.148) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo torindel (~torindel@84-10-25-82.static.chello.pl) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo ruskie (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo mario (~mario@unaffiliated/mario) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo anYc (anyc@home.hadiko.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo Sc0rpius (~naikel@ec2-54-89-119-43.compute-1.amazonaws.com) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo Elleo (~Elleo@libre.fm/hacker/elleo) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo edheldil (~edheldil@2001:1488:fffe:1:222:19ff:fe31:415e) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo kylanpaj_ (kylanpaj@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo wnd (~wnd@katei.fi) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo Elfix (elfix@wikipedia/pdpc.21for7.elfix) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo mhanne (~mhanne@37.157.253.104) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo jabis (~jabis@vps001.pumppumedia.com) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#maemo esaym153 (~esaym153@216-45-91-132.gvec.net) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo b-p (dwd@dwd.hu) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@210.73.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo kerio (kerio@acehack.de) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo Wnt (jonni@egarden.fi) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo florentia (~florentia@kraken.insecable.net) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo nikosapi (~nikosapi@nikosapi.org) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo nslu2-log (~nslu2-log@140.211.169.184) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo jrayhawk (~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo wmarone (~wmarone@c-24-10-24-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo amospalla (~amospalla@unaffiliated/amospalla) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 22:58.18 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~parul@c-98-199-151-246.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:58.18 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by hobana.freenode.net |
| 22:59.45 | *** join/#maemo fil_ (~phil@switch.hands.com) |
| 22:59.45 | *** join/#maemo erstazi_ (~erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi) |
| 22:59.45 | *** join/#maemo gregoa (~gregoa@colleen.colgarra.priv.at) |
| 22:59.45 | *** join/#maemo kraft (kraft@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/session) |
| 22:59.46 | *** join/#maemo ketas (ketas@ketas6-sixxs.si.pri.ee) |
| 23:00.35 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 23:00.48 | *** join/#maemo pdz (~paul@c-67-169-80-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:03.37 | *** join/#maemo kraft (kraft@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-jekuzwoepymaflzk) |
| 23:03.52 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq) |
| 23:08.39 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos1@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 23:16.08 | sixwheeledbeast | bencoh: there is an RE (which is what I was referring to as "stock") |
| 23:18.56 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@159.176.138.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 23:41.07 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 23:41.19 | bencoh | hm ? |
| 23:46.07 | *** join/#maemo janemba (~101@unaffiliated/janemba) |
| 23:49.06 | *** join/#maemo Pysiek (~pysiek@unaffiliated/pysiek) |
| 23:49.48 | *** join/#maemo thcmakaveli (~clooakkk@178-83-191-39.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:50.04 | *** part/#maemo thcmakaveli (~clooakkk@178-83-191-39.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |