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| 10:38.02 | merlin1991 | hm what happened to "Power Search" on maemo.org? |
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| 10:57.04 | merlin1991 | cssu is looking for people again: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1430952 |
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| 10:57.54 | Humpelst1lzchen | How much do you pay? :P |
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| 11:20.47 | sixwheeledbeast | Power Search has been broken for a while. It's generally to do with what you are searching for I believe. |
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| 11:27.43 | pluschan_ | ~sb |
| 11:27.43 | infobot | hmm... scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB |
| 11:28.39 | merlin1991 | sixwheeledbeast: well for me it's just "This page will allow you to search the whole of maemo.org and will allow you to filter the search results according to the different sections. Loading" |
| 11:28.46 | merlin1991 | the search doesn't even show up :D |
| 11:30.40 | sixwheeledbeast | ah yes, that search. That has been broken the same amount of time as the other search bar that doesn't like searching for "n900" |
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| 14:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: http://originalspareparts.com.ua/phones/nokia/n900#c "screw M1.4 x 2.8" |
| 14:14.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or M1.4x5.0 or RF1.4x4 |
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| 14:34.33 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
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| 14:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: don't fall for http://www.gerry-mobilfunk.de/cgi-bin/shop.pl?seite=1&do=artikel&artikel=9991964&status=00029&suchstring=&bestellung=&hersteller=Nokia&hersteller1=N900&ru=Handy&sk=GM&sa= |
| 14:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's genuine but a rip-off basically |
| 14:54.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can get 2k of them for the same price |
| 14:55.00 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: yes I would look at cpc.farnell or rs etc first. |
| 14:55.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | check ebay, honestly |
| 14:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | M1.4x5 is a good and precise search string and product spec |
| 14:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever the particular screws you need |
| 14:56.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | FR1.4x4.0 |
| 14:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 15:01.57 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: Also while your about the friend I need the screws for has had an issue with his screen protector. it has "welded" it's self to the screen (never heard this before). Any tips on removal without damaging anything? |
| 15:11.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | slooooowly, no force, slightly increased temperature |
| 15:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid he tried to remove the better half of digitizer ;-) |
| 15:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | often a patch of scotchtape in one corner can help lift the protector |
| 15:14.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | (screws) http://originalspareparts.com.ua/parts/6300174/screw_m14x50_black_camera-cross/ |
| 15:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://originalspareparts.com.ua/parts/6380558/screw_rf14x4_torx_plus_6ip_black/ |
| 15:15.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds more reasonable than 8EUR |
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| 15:25.04 | Sc0rpius | TMO does not resolve. |
| 15:25.04 | Sc0rpius | maemo.org does not resolve |
| 15:25.04 | Sc0rpius | oh it was my DNS server :P |
| 15:25.05 | Sc0rpius | looking good now! |
| 15:27.31 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: I have not seen it yet. But I too think it's the digitizer |
| 15:30.12 | sixwheeledbeast | I was thinking if it is the protector is stuck then slowly with maybe a thin guitar pick. Didn't think of temperature however having a warm spell here so maybe leave in the sun for a bit. |
| 15:31.04 | sixwheeledbeast | Are there any good quality digitizer replacement links? |
| 15:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | use scotchtape! |
| 15:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | quality of replacements up to particular evaluation |
| 15:31.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | most claim "ORIGINAL NOKIA" |
| 15:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | some prolly are, some may be fake of inferior quality |
| 15:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g when they use whatever liquid they can find,instead of the silicon oil, for separator |
| 15:33.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly a lot of phantom shifts done on tzhose parts |
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| 15:35.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even true knock offs / copies |
| 15:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | real fakes (non-functional) rather improbable |
| 15:42.55 | sixwheeledbeast | Never had to replace one yet, however, my worry would be spending time fitting a poor quality part. |
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| 16:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | quality check: connect resistance-meter to upper and lower plane, check for ope-circuit aka infinite-ohms. then make sure digitizer makes contact when you *slightly* touch it with a feather or the like |
| 16:07.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are only 4 pins on connector of the digitizer, find two of them who are usually not connected |
| 16:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | NoContact |
| 16:08.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | on slightest touch, the resistance has to change from infinite to some 100..1000Ohms |
| 16:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | easy |
| 16:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | more subtly quality issues not detected that way, but you will find out after installing only |
| 16:09.31 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: wait, the digitizer is supposed to be *that* sensitive? :o |
| 16:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can hardly wipe of dust flakes with finger, and I'm not an elephant |
| 16:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's almost impossible to touch a good new N900 digitizer with your finger without already making a touch event |
| 16:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure a sheet of paper touching digitizer with the corner should be able to create a touch even when done right |
| 16:13.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course the separator oil might age and get more viscous over the years |
| 16:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually meanwhile my daily N900 needs some 20g orso on a pinpoint touch |
| 16:15.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | also depends a bit on whether you touch at edge or on center of digitizer |
| 16:15.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | edge is harder |
| 16:17.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | still woking with a standard sheet of paper corner |
| 16:17.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | though it's a tad hard and needs several tries now |
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| 16:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | fold the paper once and for sure you get any touch you want, easily |
| 16:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a standard BT USB dongle is a itsy bit too few weight to make it trigger |
| 16:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | will test witl coins of well known currency later on |
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| 18:22.23 | Snafu777 | So......... |
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| 18:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 18:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (coins) 2EUR is close to the edge, damn close but not entitely sufficinet |
| 18:54.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably the 2€ coin is not "pinpointed" enough even on the edge, thus it takes a tad more this way |
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| 19:35.41 | Snafu777 | Well, I thought about fuckin' some chickens before, eh? If you want to have a good time and you need some pussy, you can (motions with his hands) cut that chicken's head off, stick yo' dick in the ass of that chicken, and that damn chicken'll go crazy on your ass and go "Caaaaah". |
| 19:36.53 | bencoh | yeah ..... right. |
| 19:37.20 | bencoh | /clear /clear /clear |
| 19:37.52 | ecc3g | /clear /opaque /clear /fill |
| 19:37.56 | Snafu777 | =) |
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| 19:47.15 | RiD | Snafu777 ._. |
| 19:48.32 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: so you managed to get xchat behaving properly on switching 3g/wifi connections? |
| 19:49.25 | Snafu777 | RiD: =) |
| 19:49.43 | RiD | hey, any easy way (without reflashing) to check if my FM transmitter is hardware-broken? |
| 19:50.10 | RiD | it doesn't seem to work. |
| 19:51.31 | kerio | a radio |
| 19:51.51 | bencoh | :] |
| 19:52.59 | RiD | yeah, that's how i know it doesn't work |
| 19:53.07 | RiD | what i want to be sure of, if its a software mess up or hardware |
| 19:53.16 | RiD | but at the same time, i'm too lazy to reflash |
| 19:53.29 | RiD | (i have multiboot set up and all that :\ - yeah kill me for not using uboot too!) |
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| 19:54.40 | kerio | multiboot is actively harmful |
| 19:55.21 | RiD | I know. Uboot has issues with what I want to do, though. Tried it a couple times, never got it to work 100% |
| 19:55.35 | bencoh | what do you actually want to do ? |
| 19:55.53 | RiD | android + maemo |
| 19:55.55 | bencoh | (that wont work with uboot ?) |
| 19:56.06 | bencoh | you really use android on n900 ? |
| 19:56.11 | RiD | never got android hardware accel to work with uboot, or charging |
| 19:56.15 | RiD | for an application or two, yes |
| 19:56.35 | bencoh | oh, so people actually use it |
| 19:56.38 | bencoh | woah |
| 19:56.42 | RiD | very few I guess :| |
| 19:56.55 | RiD | I still prefer maemo, but really not much choice eh |
| 19:57.22 | RiD | and i don't really want to jump into a more powerful phone, while at the same time more garbage |
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| 19:57.51 | RiD | I'd rather handle the n900 "slowness" than jump into android right now. Not many alternatives to android either |
| 19:58.20 | RiD | 5" display, open keyboard, bam, useless screen |
| 19:58.31 | RiD | annoys the hell out of me |
| 19:58.31 | Snafu777 | uses his n900 as a computer in his pocket |
| 19:58.45 | Snafu777 | Hey DocScrutinizer05, maybe you can answer this or anyone else for that matter |
| 19:58.52 | Humpelst1lzchen | Snafu777: who doesn't |
| 19:59.16 | Snafu777 | I've got easy debian chroot installed |
| 19:59.20 | Snafu777 | and I'm using debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 |
| 19:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: (xchat) sure |
| 19:59.31 | Snafu777 | I've been apt-get purging crap on it to save space |
| 19:59.37 | Snafu777 | but the darn filesize doesnt ever shrink |
| 19:59.39 | Snafu777 | why? |
| 19:59.47 | Snafu777 | I've purged over 700 mb from the chroot |
| 19:59.52 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: was that lagometer option enough or you found something else? |
| 19:59.54 | Snafu777 | yet the debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 filesize is the exact same |
| 20:00.20 | Humpelst1lzchen | Snafu777: is that an image? |
| 20:00.23 | bencoh | it wont shrink |
| 20:00.29 | Snafu777 | Will it expand then? |
| 20:00.35 | Snafu777 | Because that's why i wanted to remove stuff |
| 20:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Snafu777: moderator warning, watch speech |
| 20:00.41 | Snafu777 | so that i could add stuff without expanding too much |
| 20:00.45 | Snafu777 | K DocScrutinizer05 |
| 20:00.52 | Snafu777 | Sorry =/ Twas a joke =) |
| 20:01.00 | bencoh | ? |
| 20:01.03 | Snafu777 | And yer referring to my chicken thing right? |
| 20:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: lagometer did it |
| 20:01.51 | Snafu777 | bencoh: Why will it not shrink? And can it expand if i add to it? |
| 20:02.03 | Snafu777 | And if not, then where does the stuff I add to it go?? |
| 20:02.06 | Snafu777 | It's mind boggling |
| 20:02.19 | dos1 | Snafu777: it is a filesystem image |
| 20:02.43 | dos1 | Snafu777: it's like a disk partition - it doesn't shrink when you delete files on its filesystem |
| 20:03.01 | Snafu777 | Does it expand if u add? |
| 20:03.05 | Snafu777 | without tias involved |
| 20:03.13 | dos1 | does disk partition do? |
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| 20:05.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it's an image file, your only chance is to create a second smaller img file and mount it like first one and copy everything from first to new smaller img |
| 20:06.13 | Snafu777 | Ok, but can it grow in size? |
| 20:06.39 | Snafu777 | That's my concern |
| 20:06.50 | Snafu777 | Because that was my point for removing stuff i didn't use |
| 20:06.58 | Snafu777 | And, with that thought in mind |
| 20:07.10 | Snafu777 | If i purge 500mb, and then I add back in 400mb worth of stuff, it shouldnt expand, correct? |
| 20:07.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | only grows when you tell it to |
| 20:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually |
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| 20:07.46 | Snafu777 | Ok...., So it can expand, but not shrink |
| 20:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on the particular solution you use. Some auto-grow |
| 20:08.01 | dos1 | well, you can shrink img, but you have to resize it manually |
| 20:08.01 | Snafu777 | Well, I'm using the stock apt-get easydebianchroot thing |
| 20:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | some can grow when you use a tool to extend them |
| 20:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | some cannot change size at all after creation |
| 20:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | _none_ shrinks |
| 20:08.47 | Snafu777 | I guess what I'm getting at is this: I originally added stuff to it, but from ls -l the size did not change on the image, even after I unmounted it |
| 20:08.54 | Snafu777 | So where did the added stuff go? |
| 20:08.59 | dos1 | it's ext3 or 4 afaik |
| 20:09.04 | M4rtinK | I'll just add that if you use thin provisioning it can indeed shrink :) |
| 20:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 20:09.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, you da master :-) |
| 20:09.34 | M4rtinK | or to be more exact the thin provisioned LV returns the blocks back to the pool VG |
| 20:09.44 | M4rtinK | when you delete stuff |
| 20:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | never recently looked into that stuff, so nevermind what i toldya |
| 20:10.17 | Snafu777 | Hmm |
| 20:10.23 | Snafu777 | So does anyone here use the easy debian chroot? |
| 20:10.27 | M4rtinK | but yeah, not really applicable if you don't use LVM :) |
| 20:10.30 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: resize2fs should shrink fs image file just fine |
| 20:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: that's LVM? |
| 20:10.42 | M4rtinK | Logical Volume Manager |
| 20:10.43 | dos1 | that's a ext image file mounted with loop |
| 20:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 20:11.09 | dos1 | like mount -o loop debian.ext3 /mnt/debian |
| 20:11.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ext img doesn't sound like LVM |
| 20:11.24 | M4rtinK | sits between physical partitions and filesystem |
| 20:11.28 | dos1 | yes, it's completely unrelated to LVM |
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| 20:12.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, loopmount doesn't sound like LVM |
| 20:12.14 | dos1 | Snafu777: you can use resize2fs on *unmounted* image to adjust its size |
| 20:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the "you tell it to" variant |
| 20:12.58 | Snafu777 | Alright, image resizing aside, I could honestly care less about shrinking the actual filesize of the image. What I am trying to figure out is if I purge 500mb from the image, can I add 500mb without expanding the size of the image |
| 20:13.24 | Snafu777 | Since the repos for maemo are so crazy, I figured i'd go with debian |
| 20:13.26 | M4rtinK | yeah, I'm just saying that there are some scenarios (not directly related to loop mount) where you get space "back" if you delete stuff on a filesystem |
| 20:13.29 | Snafu777 | The filesystem is "sane" at least |
| 20:13.32 | dos1 | Snafu777: well, if you purge 500mb from ext3 partition on your PC, can you add 500mb without expanding your harddrive? :P |
| 20:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, what gets deleted can get added as well |
| 20:13.40 | bencoh | which reminds me ... no one runs lvm on n900 ? |
| 20:13.43 | Snafu777 | Ok |
| 20:13.50 | Snafu777 | So then riddle me this |
| 20:14.00 | Snafu777 | Without purging anything |
| 20:14.02 | Snafu777 | I added to the image |
| 20:14.05 | Snafu777 | unmounted |
| 20:14.06 | M4rtinK | bencoh: don't know about anyone |
| 20:14.07 | Snafu777 | yet the size didnt grow |
| 20:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 20:14.20 | Snafu777 | and NOTHING else on the entire n900 partitions changed in size |
| 20:14.21 | bencoh | I think kp has no lvm support |
| 20:14.26 | M4rtinK | bencoh: on the other hand the HP TouchPad uses LVM :) |
| 20:14.27 | dos1 | Snafu777: size is *constant*! |
| 20:14.27 | Snafu777 | So where the heck did the added files go? |
| 20:14.35 | M4rtinK | bencoh: as presumably other WebOS devices did |
| 20:14.36 | bencoh | M4rtinK: lvm is love :) |
| 20:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | your image is like a virtual disk |
| 20:14.47 | bencoh | Snafu777: it will not shrink, ever :) |
| 20:14.50 | M4rtinK | bencoh: indeed! :) |
| 20:14.52 | dos1 | Snafu777: if you remove 500mb from inside filesystem, the file with it does not shrink (unless you run resize2fs on it) |
| 20:14.58 | Snafu777 | So you are saying when I chroot into it, I should issue df to see how much I have on / |
| 20:15.01 | dos1 | yes |
| 20:15.15 | Snafu777 | So it's like a fixed little usb thumbdrive so to speak |
| 20:15.19 | dos1 | you don't even need chrooting for that, just mounting it will do |
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| 20:15.25 | Snafu777 | True |
| 20:15.26 | bencoh | Snafu777: somehow |
| 20:15.33 | bencoh | well, kindof |
| 20:15.33 | Snafu777 | but the concept is to chroot so u have an OS within the n900 OS |
| 20:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine |
| 20:16.11 | Snafu777 | alright, i'm decompressing it right now to chroot into it |
| 20:16.23 | Snafu777 | I'll do a df and see what is available |
| 20:16.27 | Snafu777 | I think I understand now |
| 20:16.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | chroot, use df -h, see how much of your 42.911GB image space got used |
| 20:16.33 | Snafu777 | THANK you for the patience =) |
| 20:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | do a ls -l 42.911GB.image to notice it never chages size |
| 20:17.28 | Snafu777 | That's what boggled me DocScrutinizer05 =) But now after listen to ya'll it has clicked i do believe |
| 20:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 20:17.52 | bencoh | chicken enlightnment |
| 20:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 20:18.10 | Snafu777 | The whole reasoning behind wanting to know is so that I can use the debian environment for things that just "dont" work in maemo |
| 20:18.23 | Snafu777 | Other people try to run different OS's on the n900 and whatnot |
| 20:18.24 | Snafu777 | screw all that |
| 20:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | easydeb FTW |
| 20:18.43 | Snafu777 | Yes =) |
| 20:18.47 | dos1 | beware that you will be limited by old kernel |
| 20:18.51 | Snafu777 | That's ok by me |
| 20:18.55 | Snafu777 | It's a starting pt |
| 20:19.03 | dos1 | glibc in newest debian won't work with maemo kernel |
| 20:19.10 | Snafu777 | Oh |
| 20:19.23 | Snafu777 | So my idea of doing ./configure && make to create a binary on the chroot |
| 20:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders qemu on fremantle |
| 20:19.26 | Snafu777 | wont port over to maemo? |
| 20:19.33 | Snafu777 | Because that was the plan |
| 20:19.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | with win7 inside ;-P |
| 20:19.34 | dos1 | so for easydebian you're limited to wheezy(?) |
| 20:19.46 | Snafu777 | squeeze as far as i can tell |
| 20:19.55 | dos1 | possibly |
| 20:19.56 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: *nope*nope* :– |
| 20:19.56 | Snafu777 | its got sid squeeze and lenny in the sources |
| 20:20.02 | Snafu777 | I killed off all non squeeze ones |
| 20:20.08 | dos1 | sid for sure won't work |
| 20:20.54 | bencoh | dos1: until we get a brand new mainline kernel with phone functions :° |
| 20:21.02 | dos1 | yup |
| 20:21.08 | bencoh | what's missing btw ? |
| 20:21.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | the phone functions? |
| 20:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 20:21.44 | bencoh | right, but is it just about code merge or rewriting driver ? |
| 20:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus a number of other things, I heard cam doesn't work, audio also a construction site |
| 20:22.06 | bencoh | I thought isi driver was enough for phone functions |
| 20:22.15 | bencoh | (at least for kernel space) |
| 20:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly it is |
| 20:22.29 | Snafu777 | So will my idea for chrooting into debian, doing whatever to create a binary, and copying the binary back to my maemo partition, it wont work? |
| 20:22.33 | dos1 | it's also about fremantle closed parts having lots of old-kernel specific cruft hardcoded |
| 20:22.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you want audio in your phonecall |
| 20:22.44 | M4rtinK | oh, nice! http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2012/02/15/discard-hole-punching-and-trim/ |
| 20:22.46 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: haha |
| 20:22.49 | dos1 | so you have to workaround it with LD_PRELOAD stubs etc. |
| 20:22.54 | bencoh | what's missing for audio then ? |
| 20:22.58 | bencoh | dos1: eww |
| 20:23.43 | M4rtinK | looks like since kernel 3.2 the loopback backing file _should_ shrink if stuff is deleted from the loppback device |
| 20:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need the old kernel API (/sys /proc /dev) for the blobs (dialer et al) to work |
| 20:23.58 | M4rtinK | as long as the FS supports trim |
| 20:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool |
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| 20:25.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Snafu777: won't work usually |
| 20:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for some basic cmdline stuff |
| 20:25.37 | Snafu777 | That sucks =) So much for "hacking" it together |
| 20:25.50 | bencoh | M4rtinK: even with non-sparse image files ? |
| 20:25.51 | dos1 | boot debian *instead* of maemo then :D |
| 20:26.00 | bencoh | dos1: haha |
| 20:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a ddate might just work fine ;-) |
| 20:26.02 | Snafu777 | The whole lack of a phone is why i dont |
| 20:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: Today is Sweetmorn, the 30th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3180 |
| 20:26.30 | dos1 | after spending some time on it you could get working phone functionality on plain debian |
| 20:26.38 | bencoh | yeah |
| 20:26.42 | dos1 | with FSO for instance |
| 20:26.49 | Snafu777 | But that knowledge is limited to those who blog about it |
| 20:26.52 | Snafu777 | Which is nill.... |
| 20:26.52 | bencoh | or ofono (have a look at nemo) |
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| 20:27.12 | Snafu777 | I'd love to have my phone have 1 partition and 1 partition only |
| 20:27.15 | Snafu777 | THAT would be superb |
| 20:27.16 | bencoh | pita though |
| 20:27.19 | dos1 | but then you become maintainer of your own phone distro, which has both upsides and downsides :) |
| 20:27.21 | Snafu777 | None of this optimizing nonsense |
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| 20:28.01 | bencoh | dos1: I've always wished I could maintain a working openembedded tree for n900 (with phone/sms) ... but .... meh :) |
| 20:28.07 | bencoh | *dreaming*dreaming* |
| 20:28.33 | dos1 | bencoh: there was SHR working on N900 at some point of time |
| 20:28.41 | bencoh | phone included ? |
| 20:28.45 | dos1 | sadly, latest images didn't boot for me and I didn't have time to investigate why |
| 20:28.47 | bencoh | I think FSO missed this part |
| 20:28.58 | dos1 | yes, phone included |
| 20:29.01 | bencoh | woot |
| 20:29.02 | dos1 | just not so stable yet ;) |
| 20:29.21 | dos1 | there is ISI modem plugin in fsogsmd |
| 20:29.24 | bencoh | do you remember at which point in time ? |
| 20:29.51 | dos1 | oh, a few years ago? |
| 20:30.07 | M4rtinK | bencoh: not sure, probably should be sparse |
| 20:30.17 | dos1 | when there was still some development on SHR/FSO@N900 |
| 20:30.50 | M4rtinK | BTW, I would recommend everybody to see what nice features have been coming to LVM & device mapper recently :) |
| 20:30.58 | bencoh | I guess http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Phonet_Implementation isnt up to date then |
| 20:31.02 | M4rtinK | really nice stuff :) |
| 20:31.26 | bencoh | M4rtinK: I cant get nicer than it is .... can it ? :) |
| 20:31.47 | M4rtinK | like LVM cache (bcache/hybrid drive alternative) or the upcoming compression/block order targets for DM |
| 20:31.56 | M4rtinK | it can! :) |
| 20:31.59 | bencoh | :) |
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| 20:32.47 | M4rtinK | IMHO it is basically becoming a UNIXy modular BTRFS that is based on proved tech so you can actually deploy it for serious stuff :) |
| 20:34.13 | bencoh | :) |
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| 20:55.33 | Sicelo | wonders why Android still insists on a vm/runtime configuration |
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| 20:57.17 | Sicelo | it makes sense to drop Dalvik, but didn't expect that it would be replaced by just a more 'fancy' brother, ART |
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| 21:28.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | anybody tested http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-MicroSDXC-Memory-Adapter/dp/B00IIJ6W4S in N900 ? |
| 21:38.32 | sixwheeledbeast | no |
| 21:39.51 | sixwheeledbeast | not that I know of. I have 64GB Sandisk UHS. I don't see why >3TB will not work as long as it's reformatted from exFAT |
| 21:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 21:41.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | >3TB? |
| 21:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: you tested speed of your SanDisk 64GB? |
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| 21:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly for random writes? |
| 21:43.03 | sixwheeledbeast | nope. |
| 21:43.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be *very* interested in how it performs, e.g for cache etc |
| 21:43.59 | sixwheeledbeast | I needed space over speed. Also it was the only one available and a very good price at the time. |
| 21:45.55 | sixwheeledbeast | It has all my music and documents on there plus two swap spaces for flopswap. |
| 21:46.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I can come up with a random write testsuite based on standard unix toolbox bits and allowing to test for different write chunk sizes |
| 21:46.19 | ShadowJK | flashbench |
| 21:46.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: :-D |
| 21:46.28 | sixwheeledbeast | Sound like an idea. |
| 21:46.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: you got a binary? :-) |
| 21:47.28 | ShadowJK | https://github.com/bradfa/flashbench |
| 21:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, sounds like source |
| 21:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | no SB here |
| 21:48.12 | ShadowJK | https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/KernelArchived/Projects/FlashCardSurvey |
| 21:48.22 | ShadowJK | Yeah I've not run it on N900 itself |
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| 21:52.51 | kerio | i just want a ram-based microsd :( |
| 22:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want a uSD with a huuuuge RAM buffer |
| 22:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I want an alternative for a cheesy slow 32GB eMMC |
| 22:02.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I wonder if a UHS interface is compatible to the eMMC 8bit interface, i.e. if the OMAP could handle SDXC/UHS on its MMC1 interface that currently hosts the eMMC |
| 22:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if such 128 (or 64) GB uSD would be faster than the N900 eMMC then |
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| 22:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | since *if* all that pans out, you prolly would wnat a uSd tray rather than a soldered eMMC chip in your phone, eh? |
| 22:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, why does N900 have one uSD tray only? A: because eMMC is faster, thanks to 8bit databus |
| 22:07.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | if a uSD was as fast (or even faster) than a soldered chip, wouldn't you prefer two uSD trays? |
| 22:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | even if one of both is inconvenient to reach |
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| 22:10.51 | bencoh | definitely :) |
| 22:11.27 | sixwheeledbeast | nod: Having multiple replaceable uSD would be better IMO |
| 22:15.42 | sixwheeledbeast | Sorry it's 2TB not 3. This is the maximum that SDXC can go. |
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| 23:17.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmph, uptime 47days and my IroN900 actually starts cocking up. Huge delays in almost everything and audio gets hiccup |
| 23:17.36 | bencoh | killall most-of-ui-stuff ? :) |
| 23:17.45 | bencoh | lots of them leak |
| 23:17.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sudo reboot |
| 23:17.51 | bencoh | that's mean |
| 23:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mem:239M used:181M buffers:9M cache:44M |
| 23:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 23:18.25 | bencoh | hmm |
| 23:18.28 | bencoh | (and swap ?) |
| 23:18.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | swap 199/767M |
| 23:19.01 | bencoh | usually I kill systemui and things are back to "normal" |
| 23:19.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe actually fragmented |
| 23:19.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | does a manual reswap |
| 23:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | mean? that's mean: |
| 23:22.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /proc/swaps |
| 23:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Filename Type Size Used Priority |
| 23:22.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p3 partition 786424 204676 -1 |
| 23:22.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk1p3 partition 136184 0 -2 |
| 23:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3 |
| 23:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's see how long that takes |
| 23:24.10 | ecc3g | that...will take a while... |
| 23:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed ;-) |
| 23:24.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | hildon will need to end and kick a lot of preloaded stuff |
| 23:24.50 | ecc3g | it's kind of counterintuitive indeed, it only has 204MB to copy... |
| 23:24.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, already done |
| 23:25.29 | ecc3g | what speed microsd? |
| 23:25.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mem:239M used:210M buffers:3M cache:22M |
| 23:25.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | swap: 86/132MB |
| 23:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tasks: 189; been 201 |
| 23:26.13 | ecc3g | whenever I swapoff my internal swap, it takes forever on my "class 10" (which I think is a lie) microsd... |
| 23:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>One study found that, in this random-access use, some Class 2 cards achieved a write speed of 1.38 MB/s, while all cards tested of Class 6 or greater (and some of lower Classes; lower Class does not necessarily mean better small-file performance), including those from major manufacturers, were over 100 times slower.<< |
| 23:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | HUNDRED times! |
| 23:27.35 | ecc3g | wow...very possible |
| 23:27.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | over 900 |
| 23:27.45 | ecc3g | i dont have any more class 2 cards |
| 23:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | class 4 might work too |
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| 23:28.16 | ecc3g | I had a 8GB class 2 microsd card on my 5230 that I was using as backing store |
| 23:28.41 | ecc3g | putting it in my n900, the n900 fried it (or at least it seems like it, only used it a few hours and it died) |
| 23:29.05 | ecc3g | I didn't use it as swap, might just be electrical incompatibility, or the card was on its last legs |
| 23:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3 |
| 23:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# swapoff /dev/mmcblk1p3 |
| 23:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | also takes a while |
| 23:30.25 | ecc3g | wonder what's the block size of the emmc vs the microsd cards |
| 23:31.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonder why this feels like taking even longer |
| 23:32.12 | ecc3g | have a feeling that in order to increase the "MB/sec" class, they probably have huge block sizes, sacrificing small block read/modify/write |
| 23:32.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 23:33.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, reswap finished. At least it's still alive. When it doesn't behave, it's reboot time |
| 23:33.38 | ecc3g | I really also wonder about how they do wear levelling on these SD cards, it must not be as good as on full sized ssds |
| 23:33.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | a boot is good |
| 23:34.35 | ecc3g | I just swapon with a higher priority to entice the n900 to swap on microsd, alas, the emmc swapping is clearly faster... |
| 23:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course, it has 8bit data |
| 23:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | while uSD has only 4 |
| 23:35.25 | ecc3g | now that you mentioned that there was a study on "class 6"+ being so slow, I figure the RMW routines suck on these cards, and it probably will swap itself to death earlier than on emmc. |
| 23:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it oughta be faster |
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| 23:35.48 | ecc3g | (meaning, wearout will occur faster than expected) |
| 23:36.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/pjd/papers/fast10-flash.pdf |
| 23:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/KernelArchived/Projects/FlashCardSurvey |
| 23:38.31 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@251.13.98.84.rev.sfr.net) |
| 23:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sandisk Ultra Class 4 'SD16G' sounds good |
| 23:45.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohnoes, now even ssh has lags of 0.5..2s |
| 23:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot time |
| 23:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird, no idea what's causing this |
| 23:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | top 2 of htop CPU usage: htop:6%, /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu:0..2% |
| 23:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | CPU total: 8..10% |
| 23:48.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* |
| 23:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/650fa0455d :-P |
| 23:51.34 | ecc3g | mine just did that too... |
| 23:51.48 | ecc3g | i hate it when all the widgets disappear |
| 23:52.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, i love it when they re-appear ;-) |
| 23:52.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | without me typing in the SIM PIN |
| 23:52.43 | ecc3g | yeah true, at least they seem to retain their position when you re-add them... |
| 23:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | now if it also would restart all the tasks that been running... |
| 23:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
| 23:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I had no such problems |
| 23:53.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I simply typed "reboot<ENTER>" |
| 23:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is really convenient, compared to the alternatives |
| 23:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm |
| 23:54.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mem:239M used:131M buffers:22M cache:83M |
| 23:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course damn tracker-indexer hogging CPU |
| 23:56.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | 37 CPU seconds already |
| 23:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's snappy again |
| 23:57.46 | ecc3g | "Micro Center 16GB Class 10" |
| 23:58.28 | dos1 | wonders how long will it take for maemo to fill all of neo900's 1gb ram |
| 23:58.43 | bencoh | 2weeks at most ? :° |
| 23:58.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2min? |
| 23:58.59 | ecc3g | 2 sec? |
| 23:59.40 | dos1 | 2 sec seems kinda pessimistic :P |
| 23:59.49 | ecc3g | should be fast enough to run a program that malloc() everything? :D |
| 23:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | "fill" is relative |