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| 16:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 16:21.34 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, ...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 16:21.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1422335#post1422335 |
| 16:22.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 16:22.43 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 16:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 16:23.04 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
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| 16:25.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. Best you could hope for: a compatible subset, but not even that is happening. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a |
| 16:25.15 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 16:25.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 16:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 16:25.18 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. Best you could hope for: a compatible subset, but not even that is happening. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a |
| 16:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 16:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 16:25.30 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 16:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 16:25.38 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 16:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to mention the security threat of such an untestable monster |
| 16:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so really brainwashed users think they learned about unix and set suid busybox :-o |
| 16:29.09 | Apic | lol |
| 16:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Apic: don't laugh! busybox claims to handle that, by dropping permissions when not needed |
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| 16:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody seems to ever have dared to really audit it |
| 16:31.20 | NIN101 | like, I don't know, most code? |
| 16:31.21 | Apic | ic |
| 16:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: don't ask me |
| 16:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I read a 8-word statement, though "BWAHAHA MEH!" and forgot about it |
| 16:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought* |
| 16:33.30 | NIN101 | busybox is a useful project and it has its place. just for maemo it's a questionable choice. |
| 16:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 16:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | see infobot: lean scripting |
| 16:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a router with no user accounts and only 16MB of ram I can see why you want messybox |
| 16:35.28 | NIN101 | yes. |
| 16:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody would even think about installing mc to a router, no? |
| 16:37.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's not like busybox-power is changing the root problem of messybox |
| 16:37.50 | NIN101 | what root problem? |
| 16:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just pushing further out of natural habitat a concept that's not able to scale |
| 16:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | like, when you can't cut glass with a hammer, build a larger hammer |
| 16:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | all busybox fans urgently should try to find a copy of http://www.amazon.ca/Unix-Toolbox-Pike/dp/0136142737 |
| 16:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | "UNIX in a Nutshell" also |
| 16:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | even "Classic Shell Scripting: Hidden Commands that Unlock the Power of Unix" is quite recommendable |
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| 17:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-20 Sun 21:42:34] <okias> just listening google http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BHJspyh6s |
| 17:41.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-20 Sun 21:42:46] <okias> presentation, it could be used to complete "neo900" |
| 17:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | is just a rename of https://phonebloks.com/en/goals and that got already the deserved bashing |
| 17:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is a hoax, it stays to be |
| 17:43.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | you CANNOT plug tiny modules like that |
| 17:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Guess why it's called "System on_a Chip (SoC)" |
| 17:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and recet SoC like e.g that used in Jolla itegrate literally *everything* into one chip, to achieve the power-per-buck and size reduction |
| 17:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, 'n' broken |
| 17:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and recent SoC like e.g that used in Jolla integrate literally *everything* into one chip, to achieve the power-per-buck and size reduction |
| 17:50.37 | Humpelstilzchen | get a Zynq7000, there you can use lots of modules ;) |
| 17:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 17:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this sth like a SICOMP M80? |
| 17:53.16 | Humpelstilzchen | its a SoC with an FPGA |
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| 17:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, kinda... ... ... (missing the right word, yawning while searching for it) |
| 17:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | SoC with FPGA for the IO |
| 17:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if such design makes any sense for a smartphone. Maybe for a router with smart SPI FW and high throughput / low latency |
| 18:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | splitting out e.g. the GPU from the SoC makes even the SoC *more expensive* thanks to the higher number of IO you need to dedicate to interface between SoC and GPU |
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| 18:02.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you accept that your device *has no* GPU and thus cna't do all that 3D and highspeed 2D stuff, and no way to upgrade it |
| 18:03.31 | Humpelstilzchen | yes, Zynq7000 is more in use in network devices, cameras with integrated processing etc |
| 18:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, read the resppnse to phonebloks, it's a completely silly idea and will never fly the way they suggest it should |
| 18:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | response* |
| 18:04.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just a flypaper idea for the technologically ignorant |
| 18:06.06 | Apic | ~SoC |
| 18:06.07 | infobot | soc is, like, System On Chip - many embedded cpus include a variety of peripherals as well which makes them more than just a CPU. Send Out Cards - http://www.sendoutcards.com/ Summer of Code (a google project) U of U's School of Computing (http://www.cs.utah.edu/) |
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| 18:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-04-23 Wed 19:44:32] <DocScrutinizer05> Guess why it's called "System on_a Chip (SoC)" |
| 18:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | check out what TO did with PoP (Package on Package) for N900 OMAP SoC. Then ponder *why* they did this. You'll eventually come to the conclusion that phonebloks is a brainfart |
| 18:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/TO/TI/ |
| 18:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP and PoP is as much phonebloks as it gets, EVER |
| 18:17.45 | Raimu | I'll be interested to see what the hell Google is going to do with that though |
| 18:19.01 | Raimu | I wouldn't be surprised if they just stick all the functionality into the core component and all the customization are just dongles for enabling |
| 18:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, prolly X-P |
| 18:19.21 | Raimu | Sell the core component super cheap anyhoo and think nobody will crack them |
| 18:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | as usual |
| 18:19.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | they already did that with VAXen in 1980 ;-P |
| 18:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | "for running this or that, you need this dongle plugged in to your VAX machine's left foobar port!" |
| 18:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw seems that's exactly what Jolla plans to do with their TOH |
| 18:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least I can't see any other real purpose, unless eventually a real hw extension rolls out |
| 18:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | enable skins by attaching another backcover - _really_ now? |
| 18:30.42 | Raimu | Yeah, so far they're just using those things to appeal to trendy people |
| 18:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 18:31.01 | Raimu | I mean, get a fuchsia TOH and the device skins the UI fuchsia too, clever! |
| 18:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a silly gimmick |
| 18:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I wonder how much energy they waste by keeping a tag constantly in vicinity of the RFID reader |
| 18:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | on each poll for devices in vicinity, the reader needs to read out the TOH tag, to notice "ah, it's _you_ again" |
| 18:34.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems they already had to roll out a patch thanks to that |
| 18:34.18 | kerio | but DocScrutinizer, phoneblocks is the future |
| 18:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, like all future it's uncertain and possibly never will happen |
| 18:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is a lil bit less uncertain though ;-P |
| 18:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it definitely will not happen |
| 18:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | but who cares, it's the future anyway |
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| 19:29.35 | fk_lx | DocScrutinizer05: hi, how's going? |
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| 19:34.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | come ci come ca |
| 19:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | (pardon my french) |
| 19:36.09 | fk_lx | don't ask me to speak German, it would be even worse ;) |
| 19:36.33 | fk_lx | so how is the Neo900 going? |
| 19:36.51 | fk_lx | haven't traced the progress |
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| 20:45.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, been afk. Neo900 is on track, I'm on "holiday" (hope to make that a *real* holiday for at least a few days to come) |
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| 22:45.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, that's some strange and incorrect syntax and nonsensical function that something injects into my standard PC bash environment: http://privatepaste.com/3afb019331 |
| 22:47.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | at very least it lacks the ":" between "1" and "+" |
| 22:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nevertheless works |
| 22:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/d7f23996ea |
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| 23:28.48 | Maxdamantus | weirdness? in bash? can't be. |
| 23:29.33 | Maxdamantus | I recently pointed out something that seems crazy on the bash-bug mailing list .. the developers are convinced it's correct, expected behaviour. |
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| 23:29.59 | Maxdamantus | echo "$(echo '!!')" |
| 23:30.15 | Maxdamantus | in bash 3 or greater, that will expand the !!, even though it's within single quotes. |
| 23:30.49 | Maxdamantus | before bash, the problem manifests in: echo "'" !! "'" |
| 23:30.54 | Maxdamantus | er, before bash 3 |
| 23:31.05 | Maxdamantus | (Maemo normally has bash 2, so that one's relevant there) |
| 23:31.15 | Maxdamantus | it doesn't expand the !!, even though it's not quoted. |
| 23:31.46 | Maxdamantus | Basically, the history expansion uses a finite state machine to determine whether it should expand a ! construction. |
| 23:32.25 | Maxdamantus | before bash 3, it only changed state because of a backslash or a single quote. |
| 23:33.00 | Maxdamantus | since bash 3, it changes state also because of double quotes, but it doesn't know that double quotes can be inlined (that would require an infinite state machine) |
| 23:33.51 | Maxdamantus | which leads to even weirder things: echo "$(echo "$(echo '!!')")" |
| 23:34.11 | Maxdamantus | it sees "$(echo " as one double-quoted string, and ")" as another. |
| 23:34.18 | Maxdamantus | and '!!' is a single-quoted string |
| 23:34.22 | Maxdamantus | so it doesn't expand |