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| 00:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 00:07.55 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, ...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
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| 03:11.52 | honestly | ~syslo |
| 03:11.54 | honestly | ~syslog |
| 03:11.54 | infobot | hmm... syslog is the unix facility for logging the messages that programs produce. |
| 03:12.01 | honestly | ~ksyslog |
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| 03:13.49 | honestly | urgh. |
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| 18:29.12 | antithesis | Hello |
| 18:31.12 | hxka | Hi |
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| 18:33.14 | Agge | DocScrutinizer05, will the Neo900 be avalibel with keybords for different launguges? |
| 18:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now the idea been to use the N900 keymat. so whatever you can find for N900 will work on Neo900 too |
| 18:34.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't source all sorts of keymats and offer them, we will see what we can get |
| 18:35.01 | Agge | ok that would be nice |
| 18:35.32 | Agge | might even be a good thing to offer for peaple with n900 and broken keymops in the future |
| 18:36.07 | Agge | If I am alowed to ask how is the work going with the neo? |
| 18:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're still busy with organizational stuff and hw development is about protoboard #3 now, with more functions integrated and some cable to an external CPU board |
| 18:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll test multitouch, keyboard, display connector and a few other things on next version |
| 18:38.54 | Agge | sounds like you are making steady progresses with it |
| 18:40.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's kinda slow right atm, due to organizational overhead and other stuff (maemo) eating my time, and Nikolaus busy with other concurrent projects too, but then those distrations are all somehow related to Neo900 as well |
| 18:40.53 | Agge | DocScrutinizer05, do you think you will be offering it with a finish keymat? |
| 18:40.58 | M4rtinK | I really hope the Neo900 keyboard will be as good as the N900 one |
| 18:41.14 | M4rtinK | as that's the best smartphone keyboard I've seen so far |
| 18:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: it will be no different probably |
| 18:41.47 | M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: then it's fine :) |
| 18:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas the original domesheet is pretty hard to source, and expensive |
| 18:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: we don't know yet |
| 18:42.27 | Agge | :( |
| 18:42.28 | M4rtinK | that's probably because it is so good :) |
| 18:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems finish keymat is hard to find |
| 18:43.02 | M4rtinK | I wonder if gamegripper will still fit with the additional thickness.. |
| 18:43.03 | Agge | I actualy need it in swedish but remeberad that it is identical to the finish |
| 18:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: if you can find any in internet, I suggest you better get it right away. Or maybe two or three of them |
| 18:43.34 | hxka | Multitouch? |
| 18:43.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hxka: well, twotouch |
| 18:44.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather: gesture recognition |
| 18:44.11 | Agge | do you know the what the price different beteven the upgrade kit for a n900 and a new neo900 will be? |
| 18:44.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | around 1450EUR |
| 18:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 18:44.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | 150 |
| 18:44.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/faq#cost |
| 18:44.59 | Agge | that is a nice price for it |
| 18:45.30 | Agge | According to current estimations, the cost of motherboard should be somewhere between 500 and 700 EUR. ? |
| 18:45.46 | Agge | oh I thoght wrong :( |
| 18:47.20 | Agge | wow I never reliced that you could buy stuff like this http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/NEW-FULL-Cover-Case-HOUSING-FASICA_562476974.html |
| 18:48.05 | hxka | It doesn't include touchscreen and other hardware |
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| 18:49.11 | Agge | yeah but why would anyone buy if exept to build a neo900? and then you need the screen also |
| 18:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: that's what we rely on for Neo900. Alas it's only the easiest part of mech parts |
| 18:50.04 | Agge | I thoght that you would need to get those parts manufactured |
| 18:50.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | a LCD can cost up to 100$, a slide mechanic up to 40EUR. then you need antennas which are usually fake in those cover-case sets |
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| 18:51.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: when we would manufacture our own parts, we for sure had chosen some different formfactor and design than exactly N900 |
| 18:51.29 | Agge | true |
| 18:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's for Neo910i though ;-) |
| 18:51.58 | Agge | it is a nice form factor a "little" thick but somwhat nice |
| 18:52.16 | Agge | nice :) any official desigh docs? |
| 18:52.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not yet |
| 18:52.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're still busy with Neo900 :-D |
| 18:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | however see maybe pyra |
| 18:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pyra |
| 18:53.20 | Agge | it is to bad that nokia dident sell the n950 but that formfactor would been imposible to build anyhing in |
| 18:53.28 | Agge | pyra? |
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| 18:53.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.pyra-handheld.com/specs.html |
| 18:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | this might become Neo910 development board |
| 18:54.34 | Agge | thanks hadent heard about that one |
| 18:56.12 | Agge | found a alibaba seller of a N900 with "Operation System: Windows Mobile" :) |
| 18:56.57 | M4rtinK | even has bit-little, nice |
| 18:57.01 | M4rtinK | and seems rather powerful |
| 18:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, those N900 nokla knockoffs |
| 18:58.55 | Agge | I was looking around a litle for a good phone with keybord for a friend and found that when looking for a se/fi keymat to if I whare to get an non se/fi n900 |
| 18:59.31 | Agge | yeah 120-125 for 10 are realy to good to be true |
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| 19:04.29 | antithesis | Why does the neo900 faq claim that a resistive touch screen is superiour to a capacitive one? |
| 19:05.01 | antithesis | Just because of the stylus? Because there's styluses that work on capacitive touch screens |
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| 19:07.05 | Agge | anyone know if nokia still offer spare parts for the n900? |
| 19:10.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | antithesis: because it's the truth |
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| 19:11.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: yes, they do. For some parts, like domesheets |
| 19:12.49 | Agge | thanks I will have to contact call them on monday and see what they still have |
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| 19:25.08 | hxka | I had tablets on Android with capacitive touscreens and I can say 2 things |
| 19:25.44 | hxka | 1) Resistive touchscreen on N900 is SO much more pleasant to use than capacitive ones |
| 19:25.53 | hxka | 2) miltitouch is useless |
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| 19:41.47 | antithesis | I have to say, the touch screen is better than what I expected |
| 19:42.06 | antithesis | The last time I used a resistive touch screen was on an Archos device. Horrid experience |
| 19:42.20 | antithesis | But I still don't see how it's _better_ than a capacitive touch screen |
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| 20:03.09 | raininja | SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD is undocumented |
| 20:03.17 | raininja | wat do? |
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| 20:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | antithesis: it's better because it works with any object touching screen (incl fingernails and gloves, and toothpick) |
| 20:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | antithesis: and it's MAGNITUDES more precise |
| 20:31.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | c-ts operation principle doesn't allow a precision we think is mandatory for a decent maemo fremantle device |
| 20:33.34 | Agge | DocScrutinizer05, do you think that this is legit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nokia-N900-Phone-Meamo-Qwerty-3-5-Touch-Unlocked-Smartphone-32GB-5MP-WiFi-GPS-/271334934905?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item3f2cd28979 |
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| 20:39.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF? "does not ship to Germany"? Anyway, looks legit |
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| 20:40.51 | Agge | hadent seen that. strange |
| 20:40.55 | Agge | thanks |
| 20:40.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | though might be one of the "guaranteed brand new" refurbished HK sales. They offer "DOA return" for 48h, so hurry to check thoroughly for any defects |
| 20:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think a "guaranteed brand new" that doesn't even ship with original package and accessories still has to be absolutely clean inside and not show any sign of user data in system (often they even forget to properly reflash everything). Otherwise I'd return it |
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| 20:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas the backup battery is broken on *all* devices meanwhile |
| 20:45.05 | Agge | ? |
| 20:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | inspecting /dev/mtd1 would give a pretty good idea about history of device |
| 20:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat |
| 20:45.16 | infobot | somebody said bupbat was use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/Art-2112777-TAIYO-YUDEN-PAS414HR-VA5R-KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90864 |
| 20:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | backup battery for cmos clock |
| 20:45.37 | Agge | aha thanks for the recomendations |
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| 20:47.48 | Agge | It is for a friend of mine that have wanted to get a N900 for years but havent had the monney for it |
| 20:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, go ahead! |
| 20:48.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically the price is rather good |
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| 20:52.29 | Agge | thanks. I use ebay faar too little to know what to look to find if stuff are ligit |
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| 20:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you basically can't |
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| 20:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just that some offers are obviously fake (those claim "dual SIM" or other nonsense). Some are rogue and send defect or refurbished as "brand new". And most are just amazingly fair offers, though usually all come in a crappy box without any accessories other than charger, even when they claim "original package" |
| 20:59.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | to find one that actually comes with original package (shown in a photo) and thus with full set of accessories are damn hard to find, but odds are those are *really* brand new |
| 21:00.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | (me shpould write shorter sentences. then maybe wouldn't forget how I started) |
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| 21:06.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: actually I'd be *very* pleased when you could report about your experience with this seller and the N900 they ship to you. Even when they claim they won't ship to Germany, I still would like to know what quality they offer |
| 21:08.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm rather sure I could manage a destination shipping address in maybe swizzerland or france or netherlands or whatever |
| 21:08.16 | Agge | ofcorse |
| 21:08.50 | Agge | or I could get some delivered to Sweden and send them to you :) |
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| 21:10.47 | Agge | strange that they don't send to germany of all countrys |
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| 21:15.07 | honestly | might be because of german duty tax procedures |
| 21:15.27 | honestly | basically if something is iffy about the duty tax, they will just take a hammer and smash the package to bits |
| 21:15.30 | honestly | because fuck you |
| 21:15.44 | honestly | and that creates lots of unhappiness everywhere |
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| 21:19.23 | Agge | aha that would explain that. in sweden they would just open in and do a aprociation of that value and bill you for that |
| 21:19.58 | honestly | they sometimes do that in germany if they're feeling especially nice |
| 21:20.36 | honestly | but often recovering the item after it was stopped by duty tariff inspection means spending more money than you originally paid for it |
| 21:21.10 | honestly | (for example, you might have to personally go to a customs office on the other side of germany) |
| 21:21.34 | Agge | iirc it would be iligal for them to destroy it in sweden unless a cort deside it countain iligal stuff |
| 21:22.42 | honestly | there is one funny detail of german customs law where you can import an item free of tariff if it's for research or education purposed, but you then have to destroy it after two years |
| 21:22.49 | honestly | purposes* |
| 21:23.06 | honestly | german customs is all about destroying things :D |
| 21:23.37 | Agge | i worket for UPS for 2years and they whare realy stuped when it come to duty and tax on stuff we had times when somone had ordered somthing for about 2-3 and ups desided to take duty on it and add a 15 "work" charge |
| 21:24.40 | Agge | when if im not entirely incorect the swedish custom law don't care about stuff that is wort less then 60-70 |
| 21:26.27 | Agge | we also had a girl that had been on a long wacation in mexico and sent home some cloths that she had broght from sweden with her on the wikation and they wanted her to pay 200 in tax on it |
| 21:27.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: ((they would just open in and do a aprociation of that value and bill you for that)) that#s what German customs does as well, but it#s quite hard to explain to them this phone isn't worth 600EUR anymore |
| 21:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and so I guess a lot of German buyers don't pick up their parcels at customs since it#s too expensive |
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| 21:29.44 | Agge | couldent you just show them the order you made? that would be vaild in sweden |
| 21:31.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that#s all same across Europe I guess (or rather EU) |
| 21:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but HK is known to do so much cheating, they probably got angry |
| 21:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually that's first time I see Germany as only country they refuse to ship to |
| 21:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe they had some particularly bad experiences |
| 21:33.55 | Agge | hard for them to argue if you show them the order and the banking details for it |
| 21:33.57 | Agge | probibly |
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