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| 05:28.32 | ds_shadof | i'v setup SIP account in my n900, i can make a call i can receive them, but i cant hear the other side. Other side hears me |
| 05:29.34 | ds_shadof | and hears me very good |
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| 09:09.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds_shadof: inbound RTP gets blocked. You're probably behind a NAT |
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| 09:13.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds_shadof: check your SIP provider's howto for STUN. Usually providers have service like "stun.provider.net:10000", configure your SIP account on N900 accordingly under SIP->extended-config->STUN-detection, disable "automatic" and enter the STUN server's URL incl port |
| 09:14.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems port 3478 is very common |
| 09:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your router has a firewall, you have a problem |
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| 09:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~stun |
| 09:17.53 | infobot | stun is, like, that feeling you get when you realise your SIP call actually got through!. Simple Traversal of UDP over NATs, or a client side method to cater to crappy sip servers, or a phaser setting |
| 09:20.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc stun |
| 09:23.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc3489 |
| 09:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rfc 3489 |
| 09:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3489.txt http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc5389 http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc5780 |
| 09:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01 |
| 09:30.49 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: is stun simply knocking at each other with udp until the NAT opens up? |
| 09:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, STUN talks to *the SIP registrar/server* |
| 09:31.28 | jon_y | hmm ok |
| 09:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the client can lean about type of NAT it has to handle, as well as public ports |
| 09:31.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and public IP |
| 09:32.41 | jon_y | does the STUN server still get involved once initial handshake is done? |
| 09:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | brute force nasty abuse of STUN: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/getownip |
| 09:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 09:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | STUN is strictly for session initiation, resp even to get the right parameters for that |
| 09:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively nowadays you *could* use uPnP |
| 09:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | to tightly remote-control the NAT |
| 09:36.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | locally |
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| 09:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | bur uPnP is somewhat deprecated since very buggy resp security critical |
| 09:37.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a NAT/router that BEHAVEs (http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01) and STUN will make your SIP VoIP work just great |
| 09:37.55 | jon_y | ok |
| 09:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas there are still many NATs out there that restrict inbound traffic to a port to the IP the outbound traffic been addressed to |
| 09:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so colled full-cone NAT |
| 09:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | called* |
| 09:40.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | while a full-cone NAT on one end of a SIP session can still get handled, there is basically no way to establish a SIP session when both ends use a full-cone NAT |
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| 09:42.40 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: so, in full cone, you have to wait until the edge device forgets about the transaction? |
| 09:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't help |
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| 09:44.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you send a UDP package to far end. your NAT picks a random source port for that. Far end also uses full-cone NAT, so the destination port is closed |
| 09:45.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | since full-cone NAT uses a new random source port for a new destination IP, you can't find out about your own public port number using STUN server |
| 09:46.14 | jon_y | can you keep bombarding a specific port? |
| 09:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | what STUN server tells you applies only for that particular connection |
| 09:46.26 | jon_y | eg both parties hitting each other at specific ports |
| 09:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | while far end cannot send to same port STUN told you you're using |
| 09:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather: far end tries to send to that port, but your full-cone NAT rejects the packages since differnet IP that that of STUN server |
| 09:48.32 | jon_y | hmm |
| 09:48.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | when one side using full-cone NAT, other side mustn't use any NAT at all, then it still works |
| 09:49.02 | jon_y | I read somewhere about a technique where both side will bombard each other with udp at a specific port at the same time |
| 09:49.11 | jon_y | to trick it into opening |
| 09:49.19 | jon_y | not sure what that is called |
| 09:49.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's called UDP ;-) |
| 09:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it works with NAT that are NOT full-cone |
| 09:50.20 | jon_y | hmm ok |
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| 09:52.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | A sends STUN and receives answer: "you're using public IP 123.234.111.2 and port 10444". A now sends a SIP message to B saying "contact me via RTP on IP 123.234.111.2 and port 10444" |
| 09:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | B sends UDP packages and since A has a proper BEHAVing NAT, that NAT forwards to inbound traffic from B to port 10444 to your SIP client |
| 09:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | no so when it's a full-cone NAT |
| 09:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | also not when you got a firewall that turns your NAT into full-cone |
| 09:54.18 | jon_y | oh I see |
| 09:54.35 | jon_y | not-full cone will bind an external port to an internal ip? |
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| 09:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, every NAT does that |
| 09:55.02 | jon_y | regardless of what the other party's ip is |
| 09:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | but full-cone do that only for the particular IP:port tupel that your client previously sent a package to, to establish that NAT session |
| 09:56.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and other source IP or source port gest rejected by full-cone |
| 09:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | any* |
| 09:56.33 | jon_y | ok, I think I did a usermode full cone NAT daemon once |
| 09:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01#section-7 about SIP-ALG |
| 09:57.43 | jon_y | it was doing a map of ip/port to maximize the possible number of clients |
| 09:57.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | many routers have SIP-ApplicationLayerGateway, but most of them are crap and don't work |
| 09:57.52 | jon_y | so bad idea in hindsight |
| 09:58.02 | jon_y | NAT is a bad idea to begin with :( |
| 09:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, basicall yNAT is a bad idea |
| 10:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/search/draft-ietf-behave-nat-udp-01#section-5.1 you want a >>External filtering is endpoint independent:<< |
| 10:01.07 | jon_y | ok |
| 10:01.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you often get a >>External filtering is endpoint address and port dependent:<< (aka full-cone) |
| 10:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I shouldn't use the term "cone" since it's completely ambiguous and not clearly defined |
| 10:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | "symmetric NAT" is somewhat more specific but still deprecated |
| 10:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but without STUN you'll probably run into problems even with decent nice NAT that behaves |
| 10:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | default in N900 SIP config is "automatic STUN detection" which afaik relies on a special DNS entry for that SIP provider#s domain. When that DNS record is missing, STUN will fail |
| 10:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus: in N900 bother to set STUN server URL correctly |
| 10:10.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise inbound RTP will not work, and the result is that you can#t hear far end while far end can hear you |
| 10:10.02 | jon_y | s/in/if/? |
| 10:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/in/for/ |
| 10:10.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 10:10.52 | jon_y | what kind of special DNS record? |
| 10:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus: for N900 you better bother to set STUN server URL correctly |
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| 10:12.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:12.20 | jon_y | thats a weird entry |
| 10:12.26 | jon_y | I guess it won't collide |
| 10:12.53 | jaska | looks like a srv record |
| 10:13.04 | jon_y | oh right |
| 10:13.10 | jon_y | what kind of entry? |
| 10:13.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what your N900 will search for when you enabled "automatic STUN detection" for provider example.com |
| 10:13.18 | jon_y | A? |
| 10:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: exactly |
| 10:13.50 | jon_y | hmm, not familiar with SRV entry |
| 10:14.37 | jon_y | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record |
| 10:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~/.ssh> host -t srv _stun._udp.sipgate.de |
| 10:14.46 | jon_y | specific for SIP/XMPP |
| 10:14.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | _stun._udp.sipgate.de has SRV record 0 0 3478 stun.sipgate.net. |
| 10:16.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your SIP provider missed to create such srv DNS entry, your automatic STUN detection will fail |
| 10:18.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | but your provider regularly will provide info about the real STUN server's URL and port, of the STUN server they provide |
| 10:20.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://secure.sipgate.de/faq/index.php?do=displayArticle&article=1225&id=302 |
| 10:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough they tell you to use STUN-Port: 10000 |
| 10:21.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | while above DNS query tells you to use port 3478 |
| 10:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually in RL both work |
| 10:22.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | their STUN server isn't picky about the port# |
| 10:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> host -t srv _sip._udp.sipgate.de |
| 10:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | _sip._udp.sipgate.de has SRV record 0 0 5060 sipgate.de. |
| 10:32.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> host -t srv _sip._tcp.sipgate.de |
| 10:32.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Host _sip._tcp.sipgate.de not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) |
| 10:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | means sipgate doesn't support SIP over TCP |
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| 17:57.26 | Sc0rpius | is there a way to know, via repositories logs, how many N900 are still alive, and if so, how many there are? |
| 17:57.29 | Sc0rpius | I guess less than 10.000 |
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| 18:16.53 | realitygaps | ive seen quite a few resuscitated recently |
| 18:17.11 | realitygaps | planning to bring mine back to life again soon |
| 18:18.37 | silviof | yes - i have my resuscitated and have another one buy for development things. And as part for a neo900. |
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