| 00:04.33 | Agge | make the subtrackt then :) |
| 00:04.53 | Agge | subtract* |
| 00:06.15 | ecc3g | first week add, second week subtract, third week multiple, fourh week divide, fifth week compute x^y, sixth week take logarithm base x of y, seventh week compute factorial of, eight week integrate an equation over the interval of the two numbers given.... |
| 00:07.21 | hxka | http://xn--80afpi2a3c.xn--p1ai/matan_captcha/ |
| 00:08.04 | Agge | hxka, you just need to add a time limit to it :) |
| 00:08.20 | ecc3g | makes it even worse for humans...heh |
| 00:08.46 | ecc3g | actually that integral isn't too bad, once you start transcendentals... |
| 00:08.48 | Agge | and for extra credit we give them a locial paradox |
| 00:10.27 | ecc3g | 9th week... prove p=np or p!=np |
| 00:12.17 | hxka | That won't be easy to evaluate |
| 00:12.38 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 00:16.08 | ecc3g | :D |
| 00:17.06 | hxka | ecc3g: Soriously though, it's actually easy to crack too: http://habrastorage.org/storage/f5dcff11/3f1f3245/68f7aa53/62544407.png |
| 00:17.42 | Agge | after that they have to beat a verified human at goo or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa |
| 00:18.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch out or the captcha gets replaced by an interrogation by me ;-P |
| 00:19.38 | Agge | :) |
| 00:19.38 | javispedro | I don't know what the big websites do these days |
| 00:19.56 | javispedro | I've had everything from recaptcha to "animal captcha" to questions I've changed daily |
| 00:20.09 | javispedro | they _beat_ the questions (seen on logs) |
| 00:20.29 | Agge | http://thepcspy.com/kittenauth/ |
| 00:20.50 | Agge | dont most still use googles recaptcha? |
| 00:20.55 | javispedro | I include that in "animal captchas", and the one I tried (no that) is mostly beaten |
| 00:20.58 | javispedro | *not that |
| 00:21.17 | javispedro | yeah, but recaptcha is useless these days |
| 00:21.48 | Agge | iirc allot of the "beaten" by computer are actualy just cheap indians that solve them |
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| 00:22.20 | javispedro | possibly |
| 00:22.35 | javispedro | otherwise we may be on the 22th century |
| 00:22.57 | javispedro | at some point I should try to ask "Show why P!=NP" to the bots |
| 00:23.44 | Agge | you might be able to use that by asking questions about obscure western culture but that would lock out allot of real peaple of you are succesful |
| 00:24.10 | ecc3g | you have to keep on changing the questions to fresh questions unfortunately |
| 00:24.27 | ecc3g | the problem with most sysadmins is that they want one solution and never have to play with it again |
| 00:24.27 | Agge | or have a realy big database of them |
| 00:24.30 | ecc3g | which will never work |
| 00:24.31 | ecc3g | no |
| 00:24.39 | ecc3g | large database will not work |
| 00:24.46 | ecc3g | it has to be infinitely large |
| 00:24.51 | javispedro | well I do ask questions about obscure videogames (since community is about games) |
| 00:25.19 | Agge | doc could have it ask maemo specif questins |
| 00:25.27 | javispedro | yet the `indians' seem to solve them at their first try |
| 00:28.16 | Agge | what about counting the number of squares hidden in somthing like this http://www.donrelyea.com/hilbert_mod/helipad_proto_big.gif |
| 00:28.36 | Agge | that should at least confuse the realt computers |
| 00:28.46 | javispedro | btw at some point I gave up and blocked all @hotmail addresses |
| 00:28.58 | javispedro | but then "the indians" moved to @gmail |
| 00:28.58 | hxka | That won't be ever solved by a real human |
| 00:29.14 | Agge | you couldent use that image it is just example of the type of image |
| 00:29.49 | ecc3g | Use pictures that have psychodelic effects that only affect humans... :D |
| 00:29.57 | Agge | you make som bigger more obius squares on it thin use it or you use triangels |
| 00:30.10 | Agge | is this a sad or an happy picture? :) |
| 00:30.29 | Agge | that could work |
| 00:31.00 | ecc3g | unfortunately the number of these kinds of pictures are limited... I mean the pictures that if you look at it funny the pictures move... of course a computer will never see it move |
| 00:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi javispedro! :-) |
| 00:31.49 | javispedro | helo! |
| 00:32.02 | hxka | ecc3g: How would you use it as captcha? |
| 00:32.17 | Agge | ecc3g, iirc you can "decode" this images by using a filter on it |
| 00:32.25 | ecc3g | dunno... but it would be an interesting concept |
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| 00:34.34 | Agge | I like mine sad http://www.who.int/dg/lee/tributes/media/who_Dr_LEE_funeral002.JPG . happy http://filovican.moobis.se/files/2013/12/christmas-presents-under-tree.jpg idea |
| 00:34.55 | Agge | it would be hard to get good computer reading on a big database of those images |
| 00:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | how about a IRC auth? |
| 00:35.31 | Agge | give the user 6 old images and 4 new and ask them to clasify it |
| 00:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 00:36.03 | javispedro | IRC auth? you have to login to IRC, try to convince admin of website so that he lets you in? :) |
| 00:36.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | inda |
| 00:36.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda |
| 00:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | convince anybody that you're real |
| 00:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | would probably nag the shit outa whole channel |
| 00:37.06 | javispedro | well at least it is a scalable solution |
| 00:37.20 | Agge | you know that "dating" scam bots have "passed" turring test |
| 00:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 00:37.46 | javispedro | this is the right moment to link to http://www.itslenny.com/ |
| 00:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess that's because the testers did NOT |
| 00:37.59 | Agge | true :) |
| 00:39.03 | javispedro | an (asterisk?) voice-based chatbot |
| 00:39.42 | javispedro | they tested it on telemarketers. some of them didn't realize until 10min in the conversation. |
| 00:40.23 | javispedro | this despite the fact the bot is actually just a series of recordings played in sequence (with some silence detection to know when to answer, I think) |
| 00:40.31 | Agge | lol. sure that they warent a bot? some telemarketing kompany have begun usig sale bots |
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| 00:47.40 | Agge | those guys at least have a rediculus sales video http://www.nucaptcha.com/ lol |
| 00:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the tricj with lenny is you don't understand a word of what "he2 says |
| 00:52.10 | javispedro | lol |
| 00:52.54 | javispedro | well it's one of those that will just randomly change the topic |
| 00:53.19 | javispedro | in this case, the random topic changes are justified by his old man persona |
| 00:53.39 | javispedro | which imho is not a bad idea =) |
| 00:54.25 | javispedro | the "ducks" recording is terribly funny =) |
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| 00:56.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, it just occurs to me that I'm commercially busy in a domain with colliding interests to maemo and thus shouldn't be in council at all |
| 00:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse: I dunno if I already been in this conflict during last elections and didn't disclose the fact |
| 00:57.46 | javispedro | I thought the only council conflict of interest was being in the Nokia itself... |
| 00:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check |
| 00:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Nominees with a professional interest in Maemo, such as working for Nokia - or any other company involved in Maemo-related software development - must declare their interest when advertising their nomination. Failure to do so may result in the Nokia Community Manager, or the outgoing Council, declaring their nomination invalid and so bar them from standing in the current election.<< |
| 01:00.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | now if only I knew if Neo900 group is involved in sw development |
| 01:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but eventually we plan to |
| 01:00.33 | javispedro | this was written basically for Nokia employees and contractors |
| 01:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 01:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's a sufficient reason to step down |
| 01:01.27 | javispedro | obviously, if you read it like a lawyer, then, by virtue of having developed maemo-related software, *I* would also need to declare "my interested". |
| 01:01.30 | javispedro | *interest |
| 01:01.53 | javispedro | so maybe it needs changing |
| 01:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I'm fed up at times |
| 01:04.26 | javispedro | ... fully comprehensible |
| 01:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I step down, HiFo nominates juiceme as woody's successor, problem solved radically |
| 01:05.20 | javispedro | though I must say that I was obviously wrong in my bet with woody |
| 01:05.34 | javispedro | #harmattan is pretty much dead while maemo is still thriving |
| 01:05.47 | javispedro | so if woody shows up again I owe him some money |
| 01:06.07 | javispedro | obviously, you are all to blame for keeping maemo alive :) |
| 01:06.13 | javispedro | j/k s/blame/congratulate/ |
| 01:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 01:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile it rots from all sides |
| 01:07.43 | javispedro | there's no way around that. |
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| 01:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | but obviously a lot of ways to speed that process up significantly |
| 01:08.24 | javispedro | but a certain level of rot may even be desirable to `continuist' types |
| 01:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | spreading frustration is a very effective means |
| 01:09.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and seems now *I* am doing that, passing along the frustration I had to take the last weeks |
| 01:11.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall I chatted with woody and we agreed that Rob failed to understand that maemo is no product but a project |
| 01:11.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't be longer than 1 year ago |
| 01:13.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1409516#post1409516 "<woody> maemo is not a FOSS project. It's is a commercial product with a number of FOSS elements interwoven." |
| 01:13.29 | javispedro | <nitpick> he is right |
| 01:13.57 | javispedro | well, unless you got the trademark from nokia, I've not been up to date with news :) |
| 01:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | he been right as long as Nokia-maemo existed |
| 01:14.53 | javispedro | back in the oldie days _maemo.org_ was the project |
| 01:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | from that POV "maemo" is a trademark, and a part of a domain name, the 2nd level domain |
| 01:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nothing more |
| 01:15.28 | javispedro | but this is just language lawyering |
| 01:16.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org is CC-BY-SA and a FOSS project. Always been |
| 01:16.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't give a shit about Nokia's trademark or product |
| 01:17.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the product actually been the maemo hardware platform |
| 01:18.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo.org the content, of course. Not the URL |
| 01:18.27 | javispedro | (take into account that woody _loves_ discussing. Remember my early "civilized conversations" with him re harmattan vs fremantle) |
| 01:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 01:19.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I don't love "discussing" with him anymore |
| 01:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | every second sentence is mere nonsense |
| 01:20.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the level of "...which proves the moon is NOT made of cheese like YOU said" |
| 01:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you ask him where this been said, you don't get an answer |
| 01:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | instead he starts to explain to you that you can't fetch parts of the moon for your pizza |
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| 01:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maemo the OS is linux in my book, thus GPL == FOSS |
| 01:26.51 | javispedro | *cough* Android |
| 01:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no nvidia driver or closed maemo-dialer changes the fact that linux is not owned by nokia |
| 01:27.50 | javispedro | so the discussion is that he argues there are nokia (c) binaries on *.maemo.org, and you disagree? |
| 01:28.03 | javispedro | well, I suppose its true a ls -lR would show that :) |
| 01:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | the FOSS parts in maemo >> Nokia blobs |
| 01:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | take away all the blobs and it's still maemo, and still FOSS |
| 01:28.28 | javispedro | possibly |
| 01:28.42 | javispedro | but it is important imho what's the status of the blobs |
| 01:29.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the status of the blobs is: Nokia rather burries them. So we're already busted |
| 01:29.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding that |
| 01:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | but none of the blobs ever been hosted on maemo.org |
| 01:29.49 | javispedro | something I wanted to say btw |
| 01:30.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | (except that unspeakable stage thing for the nokia.com akamai server farm. But that's stopped since long already) |
| 01:30.25 | javispedro | what jonwil calls "reverse engineering" is mostly basically decompiling existing (c) binaries |
| 01:30.47 | javispedro | obviously, nokia being over, no one is going to say a word |
| 01:31.17 | javispedro | but they obviously violate clean room requirements and would be rejected by most upstreams |
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| 07:36.16 | shaggycat | hi all! I want buy used Nokia n950, or it's not real? |
| 07:37.38 | shaggycat | Anybody know, when hardware keyboard cover to Jolla phone will be avaible? |
| 07:37.52 | shaggycat | i want upgrade my Nokia N900 :( |
| 07:38.04 | Tekk_ | shaggycat: ask jolla? |
| 07:38.24 | shaggycat | Tekk_, are you mean #jolla? |
| 07:38.32 | shaggycat | irc channel? |
| 07:38.37 | Tekk_ | I mean wherever you would ask them |
| 07:38.49 | Hurrian | shaggycat: it's on preorder on TMO - the guy posted a prototype of it on his twitter, iirc |
| 07:38.49 | Tekk_ | but maemo is for maemo, not jolla :) |
| 07:39.43 | shaggycat | Hurrian, oh! |
| 07:39.47 | shaggycat | really? |
| 07:40.17 | Hurrian | shaggycat: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91535 |
| 07:41.13 | shaggycat | and, may be anybody sale Nokia n950? Is forum part to sale/buy used phones? |
| 07:41.53 | Hurrian | you could post in the buy and sell subforum to look for a N950, but tbh, you really don't want one. |
| 07:42.05 | Hurrian | the keyboard doesn't work properly in Harmattan, for one |
| 07:43.00 | Tekk_ | wonders if you can still run sailfish on the n950 |
| 07:43.01 | Hurrian | the screens also have some serious design defects, and can break anytime. |
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| 07:44.02 | shaggycat | Hurrian, i want change my nokia n900, but do not make final choice |
| 07:44.41 | Luke-Jr | I haven't seen a N900 replacement yet :< |
| 07:44.45 | shaggycat | i can use phone ~1 year, may be after 1 year will be released any intresting Linux phone |
| 07:44.47 | Tekk_ | shaggycat: neo900? |
| 07:45.19 | shaggycat | Tekk_, It's very slow :( |
| 07:45.34 | shaggycat | 1Ghz one core CPU it's cry :( |
| 07:45.49 | Luke-Jr | meh @ phones |
| 07:45.55 | Luke-Jr | handheld computer is what I want |
| 07:45.59 | Tekk_ | 2 computers ago I was using a 1 core at 500 mhz with 256 MB of memory o.o |
| 07:46.16 | shaggycat | but, in jolla phone like to me elegant body colors, Nokia n900 very... serios phone :( |
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| 07:50.07 | shaggycat | and... really intrested device is child of Emotiv Insight and Google Glass with true operational system :) |
| 07:50.34 | shaggycat | it's will be not need of hardware keyboard |
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| 07:51.45 | shaggycat | i can't send message in #jolla channel :( |
| 07:52.06 | shaggycat | is any user chanell? Is it dev chat? |
| 07:52.09 | beford | isn't it #jollamobile ? |
| 07:52.23 | shaggycat | beford, thank you very much |
| 07:52.27 | beford | also there is #sailfishos |
| 07:55.23 | shaggycat | Hurrian, can you send link to subforum of sale used phones, please? |
| 08:00.19 | Luke-Jr | hardware keyboard is always a need :P |
| 08:02.15 | shaggycat | Luke-Jr, you can print with brain fastly :( |
| 08:02.39 | shaggycat | but screen keyboard it's really not good |
| 08:04.07 | shaggycat | Hurrian, how do you think, when will be hw keyboard done with this boy? |
| 08:04.27 | shaggycat | or you cannot have information? |
| 08:05.57 | Luke-Jr | I think you overestimate EEG technology |
| 08:06.10 | Luke-Jr | if you can enter data at all, it will probably be very slow and painful |
| 08:07.18 | shaggycat | Luke-Jr, webcam to wath on pupil of the eye, and EEG |
| 08:07.26 | shaggycat | EEG to mouse click |
| 08:07.35 | Luke-Jr | tedious |
| 08:07.37 | shaggycat | or click to keyboard :) |
| 08:10.04 | brolin_empey | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBv1VHy0Igk&list=PLVHiPmugndre4V-MYBJ3PnOpBpUUvvvdf |
| 08:10.12 | shaggycat | ok, may be finger ring to click |
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| 08:12.21 | shaggycat | brolin_empey, lool like :) |
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| 08:19.39 | brolin_empey | The current week is week number 05 of the year 2014. Tomorrow (Saturday) is day number 032 of the year. 2 (raised) to the power of 5 = 32 . |
| 08:23.25 | brolin_empey | Hmm, I just realised the Nokia RX-51 was introduced (publicly released) near the end of the year 2009; week number 51 is near the end of the year. |
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| 08:24.49 | jaska | numerology? |
| 08:27.05 | brolin_empey | meant he did not previously associate the 51 in RX-51 with a week number; I already knew the time of introduction of the Nokia RX-51 . |
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| 08:28.02 | wnd | what's more, 2**(0+1+4) = 32! coincidence? I think not! :-) |
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| 08:35.14 | Tekk_ | wnd: and you save an instruction if you make it into 2**(1.4)! |
| 08:35.18 | Tekk_ | 1+4* |
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| 08:41.12 | SAiF | I remember once using a terminal with | and > easily accesable from the display.. does any one tell me which one is it or point me where I can get it.? |
| 08:42.11 | SAiF | and somebody please link me to flash 12 faking link... I cant even get the .deb.. all the links are broken... |
| 08:42.34 | SAiF | should I rephrase.. o.O |
| 08:43.23 | SAiF | and where can I know the exact battery percentage. like from /proc? |
| 08:43.55 | SAiF | to put in a script... |
| 08:44.44 | wnd | for battery, search for bq27200.sh |
| 08:45.22 | wnd | it'll show how to use i2cget |
| 08:46.38 | wnd | for terminal, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Extra_Symbols_in_X_Terminal_.28osso-xterm.29 |
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| 08:48.04 | SAiF | thanks wnd.. :) |
| 08:50.06 | wnd | it might be worth mentioning that I'm now assuming n900 + fremantle |
| 08:53.31 | Tekk_ | SAiF: and flash fake is in a repo :) |
| 08:53.34 | Tekk_ | extras maybe? |
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| 09:12.01 | SAiF | I think this is what I am looking for.. /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/bq27x00-battery/2-0055/power_supply\:bq27200-0/capacity |
| 09:14.05 | wnd | I think that's available only if you have the kernel module loaded |
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| 10:21.01 | hxka | SAiF: See bnf |
| 10:21.19 | SAiF | huh? |
| 10:21.35 | hxka | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84452 |
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| 11:03.24 | SAiF | I dont need that hxka .. I get the current value from /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity.. |
| 11:03.30 | SAiF | the percentage value.. |
| 11:03.40 | SAiF | and thats all I need, :) |
| 11:05.53 | SAiF | I guess.. |
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| 16:02.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | wow, microB segfaulted |
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| 16:03.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~+uptime |
| 16:03.37 | jargon | my n900 won't come on anymore. haven't switched it one since july or so. i've got it hooked up to a charger now, and the orange LED is lit |
| 16:04.08 | jargon | i'm holding down the power button but nothing's happening |
| 16:04.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~fl.aybatrecover |
| 16:04.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~fl.atbatrecover |
| 16:04.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | wtf? |
| 16:05.04 | jargon | ikr? |
| 16:05.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~listkeys fl.atba |
| 16:05.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 16:05.56 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!. |
| 16:06.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | needs glasses |
| 16:06.38 | jargon | ok let me try that |
| 16:07.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~bootloop |
| 16:07.33 | infobot | it has been said that bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device. |
| 16:08.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | can also be caused by dead battery |
| 16:08.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~batteryfaq |
| 16:08.58 | infobot | from memory, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
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| 16:10.29 | SAiF | ~blablarecover |
| 16:10.42 | SAiF | :-D |
| 16:11.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | jargon: odds are when your bat been flat for months, it's dead now and not recoverable |
| 16:11.22 | jargon | :-( |
| 16:13.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | tbh I never seen emergency charge (steady amber) take longer than 2 minutes and still success in the end |
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| 16:14.42 | SAiF | Doc,, In a nonlit room, what all factors depend on the kbd backlight..? |
| 16:14.57 | SAiF | slide only or anything else? |
| 16:15.21 | jaska | mine seems to be on 24/7 |
| 16:15.31 | jaska | even when slider is closed in the middle of the night |
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| 16:15.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | slide and timeout |
| 16:15.38 | SAiF | rephrase... keybd backlit depends on what all factors |
| 16:16.03 | jaska | reboots dont change it |
| 16:16.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | jaska: R&D mode? |
| 16:16.37 | jaska | hmm... not sure |
| 16:17.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | or slider magnet lost? |
| 16:17.21 | jaska | could be |
| 16:17.52 | SAiF | so echo open > /prox ; mount -o bind /prox /sys/device/gpioswitch/slide/status... ?? |
| 16:18.05 | SAiF | should it stay on all time? |
| 16:19.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure, you also could patch kernel in proc/kmem |
| 16:19.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | scnr |
| 16:19.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | afk |
| 16:19.32 | SAiF | hmm. |
| 16:20.07 | SAiF | but still mine doesnt stay on. :( |
| 16:21.08 | SAiF | slide has got some mechanical issues.. Sometimes I have to apply force for kbd backlit to turn on,, some times slight adjustment would do. |
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| 21:20.18 | Tekk_ | anyone have mumble working? When I try to install through ham it gives a dep issue. if I do apt it doesn't actually pick up any sound devices |
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