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| 04:31.26 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: you remember my old battery issue I had last month or something like that? |
| 04:31.37 | FIQ | I think I might know what caused it in first place |
| 04:32.04 | FIQ | these springs that are used to keep the battery safe in place |
| 04:32.33 | FIQ | they kinda "scrape" the battery each time I insert it |
| 04:33.10 | FIQ | is it possible that this could have caused damage to the top part of the battery, progressively increasing it to the point that inserting it causes visible sparks? |
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| 04:34.03 | FIQ | I'm a bit concerned about my other (still working) batteries if this is the case |
| 04:34.15 | FIQ | if I can somehow minimize that damage |
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| 08:16.32 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 10:09.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: there are spring latches at bottom of battery (bay) only, none on top |
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| 10:11.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's hard to believe those spring latches could grind through the ~1mm black plastic at bottom of battery. It's actaully impossible that this happens in a way you couldn't easily detect optically and tactile |
| 10:17.03 | ShadowJK | it sparked at bottom of battery? |
| 10:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: btw those latches are polished shiny smooth steel in my device. No idea how they could grind trougj plastic |
| 10:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: that's what FIQ reported, yes |
| 10:18.02 | ShadowJK | Oh he mentioned top part though? |
| 10:18.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 10:18.16 | ShadowJK | I assumed he meant part with terminals |
| 10:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's lost-in-translation |
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| 10:24.11 | ShadowJK | What kind and size of spark anyway |
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| 10:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | singulary event, not clearly and closely observed |
| 10:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but reported to have been happened before |
| 10:30.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't recall any better searchterms for chanlog than "spark" and maybe "explode" |
| 10:33.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:21:12 |
| 10:34.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:40:23 |
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| 10:38.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: clearly FIQ says "at the end of battery without contacts, where the hologram is" |
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| 10:45.31 | xes | 'morning |
| 10:45.36 | ShadowJK | I'd suspect static discharge then |
| 10:45.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | moinmoin xes |
| 10:45.57 | ShadowJK | There's label, plastic caswe, and lipo pouch to wear through. seems unlikely |
| 10:47.39 | xes | it seems that sometimes my devices boots up in a wrong way generating errors that no one reported so far... Mmm it's not a good thing.. |
| 10:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: hardly, since a) capacity of the battery to global ground doesn't suffice and b) when there could be any discharge spark at bottom end, then the contacts at top end already discharged any static charge between N900 and battery |
| 10:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: and c) any such static would already discharge via human as conductor, touching both the phone and the battery |
| 10:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it can't discharge that way, it definitely won't *at bottom* of battery to the spring latches |
| 10:51.18 | xes | if someone else is experiencing strange audio problems and syslog errors like: "mafw-dbus-wrapper[1842]: dspvdec89: couldn't allocate buffer: wrong-state" "mafw-dbus-wrapper[1842]: dspvdec66: couldn't allocate buffer: not-linked" Only poweroff and battery removed seems to cure this.. |
| 10:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | my instant thought been that the small anode of the cell is at bottom of battery and the wire used to conect it to top of battery might have a short to the large anode aka containment, or a break that sparks when getting opened/closed |
| 10:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: CSSU? |
| 10:52.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | KP? |
| 10:53.03 | xes | both |
| 10:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask pali and fmg. I'm pretty sure they had problems with some stuff not allocating correct amount/addr of static RAM for video decoding (done by DSP) |
| 10:55.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | dspvdev sounds like DSP Video DECoding, and buffer == RAM, needs allocation during DSP driver init |
| 10:55.44 | xes | it seems a rare dsp instability. This happens on boot and then stays there until battery removed. What i obtain is no notification and call's audio redirected to the speaker (without the possibility to switch) |
| 10:56.05 | xes | while video and mp3 playback are working fine |
| 10:56.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 10:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe some similar problem |
| 10:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway buffers for DSP need to be contiguous and on a static addr |
| 10:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes it seems I recall there's no sufficiently large contiguous chunk of RAM available |
| 10:57.33 | xes | probably some issue initializing dsp on boot |
| 10:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 10:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc Pali also di some quite suspicious messjg around with PA buffer sizes |
| 10:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | messing* |
| 10:58.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like changing chunk size from 4k to 64k or sth |
| 10:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got maximum nervous when hearing about that |
| 10:59.40 | xes | btw, i have saved the syslog of the wrong boot maybe it could help |
| 10:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 11:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | try a sort and diff, to another sane bootlog |
| 11:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there are any now error msgs showing up |
| 11:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | new* |
| 11:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | some sed cmds to kick out variable stuff like timestamps might help |
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| 11:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | also a uniq after the sed and sort |
| 11:03.08 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: just done. Please could you grep your syslog by "dspvdec0"? |
| 11:03.13 | ShadowJK | anode/cathode is multilayer sandwich surely.. though I forget if the pouch is positive or negative |
| 11:03.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | will do |
| 11:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/0c1cef6991 |
| 11:05.27 | xes | thanks! |
| 11:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | grep dspv -> same |
| 11:06.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# uname -a |
| 11:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux |
| 11:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 11:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | mp-fremantle-community-pr: |
| 11:08.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: yup |
| 11:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p.74 |
| 11:14.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | pouch is positive |
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| 11:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw this .prf is a nice example to give the wider public an idea how many 10000s of pages a complete doc for a device like N(eo)900 need careful scrutinization and a single line or even word you don't notice in there can break your neck |
| 11:22.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's also useful to start pondering if bme devels ever had a look into docs of this kind |
| 11:23.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | also: |
| 11:23.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | -batteryfaq |
| 11:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq |
| 11:23.22 | infobot | i guess batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
| 11:39.58 | r00t^home | i had the bottom plastic simply fall out of the bottom of a few of my (bl-5j) batteries... but the only problem it causes is that there's not enough spring pressure and the contact becomes unreliable... so i just taped a pice of cardboard onto the bottom to fix it |
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| 11:53.24 | ShadowJK | btw, Jolla battery comes pre overclocked to 4.35V :P |
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| 16:17.33 | solofight | people, when i use apmefo i was not able to rename the folders... so i downloaded the source code to see how/where it stores the folder names so that i can edit those straightaway |
| 16:18.08 | solofight | this is what i found inside the source file (TODO) http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m |
| 16:18.08 | solofight | and my apmefo is not looking the same as this http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m (2nd image) |
| 16:18.22 | solofight | it looks old with manual select for all options |
| 16:18.29 | solofight | the screenshot is an advanced version ? |
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| 16:31.23 | ampharos_ | http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ub7fc/finnish_smartphone_manufacturer_jolla_outselling/ did you hear? |
| 16:31.37 | ampharos_ | jolla is something i'm very concerned if it's going to suck or not |
| 16:34.08 | joga | read the headline but meh... need to actually see the device to have an opinion on it |
| 16:34.09 | solofight | how do i access the opt folder or other folders from PC ? |
| 16:34.28 | joga | guess sshfs might work |
| 16:34.29 | freemangordon | solofight: ssh? |
| 16:34.46 | joga | (or just some scp client) |
| 16:37.28 | solofight | so i should run a ssh server in my nokia n900 then |
| 16:37.47 | freemangordon | yep |
| 16:38.03 | freemangordon | it is in the extras repo |
| 16:38.34 | solofight | freemangordon: yeah got this link http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38820 will read, install follow and then come back if i have any issues |
| 16:38.37 | solofight | just one more question |
| 16:38.43 | solofight | hen i use apmefo i was not able to rename the folders... so i downloaded the source code to see how/where it stores the folder names so that i can edit those straightaway |
| 16:38.48 | solofight | this is what i found inside the source file (TODO) http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m |
| 16:38.53 | solofight | and my apmefo is not looking the same as this http://pastebin.com/dB3Ugn7m (2nd image) |
| 16:38.58 | solofight | it looks old with manual select for all options |
| 16:39.02 | solofight | the screenshot is an advanced version ? |
| 16:39.06 | freemangordon | solofight: you'd better as the maintainer |
| 16:39.17 | freemangordon | not me, I am not using apfemo |
| 16:39.29 | solofight | i am running apmefo_0.11-1_all.deb |
| 16:39.52 | solofight | freemangordon: looks like the app does not have a maintainer since 3 years |
| 16:40.13 | freemangordon | solofight: nothing I can do :) |
| 16:41.30 | solofight | freemangordon: alright - since i was able to talk to you today.. DocScrutinizer05 told me to bug you for becoming the part of the FPTF |
| 16:41.50 | solofight | where do i start, how can i contribute ? |
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| 16:43.51 | freemangordon | solofight: hmm, good questions. I guess contributing to CSSU is the easiest way |
| 16:44.18 | freemangordon | solofight: or helping with n900 3.x kernel development |
| 16:44.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | in #maemo-ssu ;-9 |
| 16:44.34 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 16:44.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
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| 16:45.46 | solofight | tried to talk to you there in -ssu room for ~3 days now :P |
| 16:45.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still don't see why we need/want 3.x kernel for fremantle-neo900 |
| 16:46.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: because I don;t think we'll be able to port 2.6.28 to neo900 |
| 16:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not? |
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| 16:50.39 | solofight | DocScrutinizer05: when you have a minute can you please look at my question about the apmefo posted above please |
| 16:51.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no comment to post |
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| 17:33.10 | FIQ | <ShadowJK> Oh he mentioned top part though? |
| 17:33.10 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> iirc |
| 17:33.10 | FIQ | <ShadowJK> I assumed he meant part with terminals |
| 17:33.22 | FIQ | I mean not the part where battery charges or discharges, but the other side |
| 17:33.32 | FIQ | with these 2 metallic things to keep the battery in place |
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| 17:34.51 | FIQ | <ShadowJK> There's label, plastic caswe, and lipo pouch to wear through. seems unlikely |
| 17:35.27 | FIQ | my old battery that this happened to had been used for around 4 years, and hundreds of battery swaps |
| 17:36.04 | FIQ | the black shielding (or whatever it was) was worn off, the silver thing behind it slightly as well, nothing had happened to the white below *that* though |
| 17:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | EEEEEK! |
| 17:39.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't it occur to you that the "silver thing" is a conductor that shorts the battery to the metal of the latches? |
| 17:40.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMG |
| 17:41.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can't think of any way on earth how to grind through a massive 1mm of black PVC or whatever plastic that is, with a metal latch that's as smooth and shiny as a mirror |
| 17:42.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | not with 100000 battery insers/removals |
| 17:43.29 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> didn't it occur to you that the "silver thing" is a conductor that shorts the battery to the metal of the latches? |
| 17:43.40 | FIQ | no, because I asked about this previously last year or so |
| 17:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's what i just posted |
| 17:44.00 | FIQ | and then someone replied that there was no problem |
| 17:44.14 | FIQ | (this was way before sparks started to appear etc) |
| 17:45.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | what can I say? I fail to find an analogy that wouldn't sound harsh |
| 17:46.22 | FIQ | well |
| 17:46.33 | FIQ | I was concerned about when there was damage in first place already |
| 17:46.39 | FIQ | that's why I asked here about it |
| 17:46.51 | FIQ | I guess there was mis-understandings, or that the one that replied was wrong |
| 17:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can't think of any way on earth how to grind through a massive 1mm of black PVC or whatever plastic that is, with a metal latch that's as smooth and shiny as a mirror |
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| 17:48.03 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: well, I don't know of any other way it could have happened |
| 17:48.22 | FIQ | but I just opened and checked the latches... they are indeed not sharp at all |
| 17:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you bought that battery used, from a scum who didn't tell you that the plastic bottom of the battery fell off. And when you never ever seen an intact battery elsewhere.... |
| 17:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's hardly a way I could figure how you wouldn't notice such *massive* damage to your battery and start wondering if it might already explode right into your face |
| 17:50.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you told you have several batteries, no? |
| 17:51.02 | FIQ | yes |
| 17:51.10 | FIQ | both my other batteries are fully intact |
| 17:51.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I think you should notice when one of them had 1+mm deep huge dents |
| 17:51.52 | FIQ | and, as I said, I already asked about the previous (damaged) battery, but as I said, was told that it was "usual" and "not worth worrying about" |
| 17:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | what was usual??? that a battery has a hole in it? |
| 17:52.55 | FIQ | no... that the plastic had droppen off |
| 17:53.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMG! |
| 17:53.08 | FIQ | <r00t^home> i had the bottom plastic simply fall out of the bottom of a few of my (bl-5j) batteries... but the only problem it causes is that there's not enough spring pressure and the contact becomes unreliable... so i just taped a pice of cardboard onto the bottom to fix it |
| 17:53.12 | FIQ | ^ seems it happened him too |
| 17:53.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems he's pretty ignorant about what's electricity and how it works |
| 17:53.59 | FIQ | (he commented in here earlier today) |
| 17:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | "hey, that power cable on my vacuum cleane rhas meters where the copper is exposed. Only probelm I ever seen is that it doesn't roll up into the device automatically, at least not that smoothly" |
| 17:57.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yeah, a piece of cardboard works for isolating electricity |
| 17:57.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe not as good as plastic, but doesn't mean that the battery is fine to operate without any such isolation to avoid shorts |
| 17:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | "hey, that power cable on my vacuum cleane rhas meters where the copper is exposed. Only probelm I ever seen is that it doesn't roll up into the device automatically, at least not that smoothly" --- "thus I took some scotch tape and wrapped it around that copper. Nothing you need to worry about, really!" ;-P |
| 17:59.20 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: well, I don't know that much about a battery's internal structure - hence why I've always asked in here about my earlier problems |
| 17:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | "I **never** had any problem with it" |
| 17:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you however *never* mentioned that the plastic is missing |
| 17:59.56 | FIQ | yes I did |
| 18:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 18:00.11 | FIQ | way ago in here |
| 18:00.18 | FIQ | <FIQ> and, as I said, I already asked about the previous (damaged) battery, but as I said, was told that it was "usual" and "not worth worrying about" |
| 18:00.22 | FIQ | thus I didn't even mention it |
| 18:00.37 | FIQ | regarding sparks |
| 18:00.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 18:00.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I can't help |
| 18:01.26 | FIQ | I'm a bit concerned if I exposed myself to severe danger, but I don't think I could have done it better with my limited knowledge |
| 18:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out, I dunno how to handle such incident/problem |
| 18:03.03 | FIQ | well, currently I don't own any damaged batteries |
| 18:03.28 | FIQ | I'm sorry if I made you concerned about my sanity |
| 18:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-11-28.log.html#t2013-11-28T01:20:13 |
| 18:04.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see any missing plastic mentioned there |
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| 18:09.38 | FIQ | found my earlier reference http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-02-18.log.html |
| 18:10.13 | FIQ | implying that there was no problem with missing plastic |
| 18:10.18 | FIQ | that's why I never mentioned it |
| 18:10.21 | FIQ | sorry |
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| 18:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | slaps woody |
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| 18:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | tries to figure what damage will have been done to N900 by such type of massive short circuit |
| 18:23.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure could fry the battery gauge shunt resistor |
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| 18:46.01 | sixwheeledbeast | ~flash |
| 18:46.02 | infobot | rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 18:51.10 | sixwheeledbeast | o.O "This maemo.org page got discontinued, please call your local Nokia customer care." that's nice of them |
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| 18:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | please use skeiron instead |
| 19:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather complain at nokia |
| 19:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and consider sharing all content via P2P |
| 19:03.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 |
| 19:03.17 | infobot | i guess combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
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| 22:04.22 | ShadowJK | question is, is the battery protection circuit on high side or low side :-) |
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| 22:16.07 | sixwheeledbeast | It's ok I have a copy for myself. Would a mass complaint to nokiasoft actually do anything? |
| 22:16.25 | ShadowJK | doubtfull |
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| 22:40.03 | FIQ | well |
| 22:40.21 | FIQ | haven't N900 reached EOL according to nokia anyway? |
| 22:40.29 | FIQ | (i.e. end of life, end of support) |
| 22:40.51 | FIQ | though I wonder if they would be willing to suggest mirrors |
| 22:49.56 | sixwheeledbeast | this isn't about N900. Maemo has been passed over to HiFo. |
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| 22:50.20 | sixwheeledbeast | ~beasttweaks |
| 22:50.21 | infobot | methinks beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts |
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| 23:27.01 | sixwheeledbeast | seems this thread got bumped http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82039 |
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