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| 08:24.45 | vi__ | freemangordon: I would not worry about misterc. He is a well known idiot. |
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| 10:54.31 | cityLights | I guess its not #wine |
| 10:56.07 | vi__ | what? |
| 11:00.08 | cityLights | vi__: I seek help in running a windows program in linux under the emulator named wine |
| 11:00.18 | cityLights | which channel should I ask in? |
| 11:01.51 | vi__ | wine==wine is not an emulator! |
| 11:02.00 | vi__ | I do not know |
| 11:02.25 | vi__ | #winehq |
| 11:02.41 | vi__ | a simple google search would have answered your question in ~ 3seconds. |
| 11:04.24 | cityLights | sorry vi |
| 11:04.35 | cityLights | do you use wine and can help me? |
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| 11:05.26 | cityLights | how can I tell the session is using the "native" rasapi32 ? |
| 11:05.35 | cityLights | I mean I changed it in the winecfg |
| 11:05.59 | vi__ | I have no idea. I have no used wine since I tried to play half life 2. |
| 11:06.06 | vi__ | try #winehq |
| 11:06.55 | cityLights | thnaks |
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| 12:02.04 | gambitrex | just turned on my N900 after two and a half years |
| 12:02.20 | gambitrex | after ~ 1 hour battery charge, of course |
| 12:02.50 | gambitrex | and everything seems to be still working |
| 12:02.51 | gambitrex | :) |
| 12:06.22 | anYc | built for eternity (except usb slot) |
| 12:07.19 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 12:07.40 | jon_y | http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RagnarokProofing |
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| 12:10.22 | gambitrex | yeah, just remembered that. I had to leave my N900 in a weird position, just to charge it. :( |
| 12:11.43 | gambitrex | updating packages right now. Long time I don't follow updates for n900. I still have a modified linux kernel -- not sure if it's being supported yet. |
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| 16:39.28 | freemangordon | vi__: well, I tend to always try to help people, idiots included :) |
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| 16:57.54 | vi__ | freemangordon: I did not choose the thumb2 life, the thumb2 life chose me. |
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| 18:30.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: they're trying to get you! run! run for the hills! |
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| 19:09.05 | mashina | run for your liveesssss |
| 19:10.09 | freemangordon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww |
| 19:16.56 | mashina | so predictable! |
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| 19:24.00 | freemangordon | hehe |
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| 19:46.04 | xes | hello there! After a few strace sessions to investigate about the modest performace, i think i have found a trick that could increase the maemo performace systewide... SO ... i would ask for testers and ideas to understand this behavior (if it's the same also for you). The trick is: ln -s /usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons Strange? Stupid? maybe... but try it |
| 19:47.04 | kerio | u wot |
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| 20:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 20:06.37 | freemangordon | kerio: what is strange is that modest interaction really seems faster |
| 20:06.57 | kerio | >implying anyone uses modest |
| 20:07.03 | freemangordon | wut? |
| 20:07.07 | freemangordon | I use it |
| 20:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, only modest (the modest modest mail app)? |
| 20:07.55 | freemangordon | guys, wait, the point is that it could have a system-wide speedup. If true |
| 20:08.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>that could increase the maemo performace systewide<< |
| 20:08.46 | freemangordon | because I doubt modest is using /usr/share/icons without help from some lib. gtk? |
| 20:09.03 | freemangordon | but we need a confirmation/not |
| 20:09.07 | freemangordon | and a testcase |
| 20:09.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I know xes and his experience and very understatement way to post things. But that... needs a *tad* more rationale before I invest any time into it. Since without proper understand on how it's meant to work, I can't check if it actually does |
| 20:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I wonder if a ln -s /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons wasn't even more effective, if that whole thing is any effective at all |
| 20:16.35 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 20:16.44 | kerio | i doubt it's the actual path resolution |
| 20:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then, why not already ln /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons |
| 20:16.53 | kerio | linux's VFS is good enough |
| 20:17.08 | freemangordon | kerio: but what could be then? |
| 20:17.09 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because you can't hardlink directories :s |
| 20:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, I can't? |
| 20:17.38 | kerio | not even root can |
| 20:17.44 | kerio | do you think you're better than root? |
| 20:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you think you can beat me at trolling ;-P |
| 20:18.34 | kerio | mount --bind /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons |
| 20:18.46 | freemangordon | kerio: DocScrutinizer05: the reason could be that someone tries access() or open() or whatever for /home/user/.icons first |
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| 20:18.56 | kerio | indeed! |
| 20:19.07 | kerio | but why does that cause a performance hit? |
| 20:19.47 | freemangordon | hmm, gtk rc? |
| 20:19.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: thought as much |
| 20:20.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I fail to see the mega performance impact |
| 20:20.12 | freemangordon | trying to preload the whole theme? |
| 20:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | a stat() is utterly fast, particularly when done often in sequence (and otherwise it wouldn't matter anyway) since then all relevant disk blocks are in biffers already |
| 20:21.22 | kerio | indeed |
| 20:21.22 | freemangordon | xes: according to your strace, what modests looks for in /home/user/.icons? |
| 20:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | buffers even |
| 20:21.56 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 20:22.01 | xes | freemangordon: all the icons of the gtk theme |
| 20:22.20 | kerio | ...ok, that could cause a performance hit |
| 20:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | how so? |
| 20:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's still only a few hundred stat() |
| 20:23.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | to a non-existing dir |
| 20:23.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | always same dir |
| 20:23.47 | xes | modest searches for icons also in /usr/local/share/icons |
| 20:23.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ( /home/user/.icons ) |
| 20:24.05 | freemangordon | xes: what finction it executes? |
| 20:24.11 | freemangordon | *function |
| 20:24.18 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: open() |
| 20:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't change much |
| 20:24.50 | freemangordon | hmm there are hundreds of icons |
| 20:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think a failing open() is as fast as a failing stat() |
| 20:25.25 | freemangordon | yep, but calling that hundreds of times takes time |
| 20:25.28 | xes | you are free to try: strace -e open -p _modest_pid_ |
| 20:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | did you use profiling/timestamping in strace? |
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| 20:26.06 | freemangordon | xes: does that happen only when starting modest? |
| 20:26.18 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: no |
| 20:26.54 | xes | freemangordon: i have straced only modest but i'm almost sure the behavior is valid also for other apps |
| 20:26.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet N900 can execute 1000s of failing open() to same pathname per second |
| 20:27.50 | xes | i have also add a few other symlinks.... i have to check, i can't remember, it seems that it' s searching for many things in the wrong places |
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| 20:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/foobar"); |
| 20:28.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | time a.out |
| 20:29.04 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: sure. This is what i was expecting.... but this is now what i think i have obtained |
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| 20:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: it definitely does, since you can override virtually every file by a similar file in your home dir |
| 20:29.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: going to try it |
| 20:31.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: stop! |
| 20:31.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: thoug, it is not exactly correct, it should be foobar%d IMO |
| 20:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/$i"); |
| 20:31.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for wrong syntax |
| 20:32.01 | xes | sorry.... *this is not what i think i have obtained |
| 20:32.18 | freemangordon | xes: hmm? |
| 20:33.21 | xes | i mean ...i wasn't expecting a speedup. But this is what i'm experiencing |
| 20:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
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| 20:33.54 | freemangordon | xes: do you remember open() flags? |
| 20:34.25 | freemangordon | O_RDONLY? |
| 20:34.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you see a speedup where you only expected a theoretical improvement that you wouldn't expect to have any noticeable effect? |
| 20:34.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: yep |
| 20:35.20 | xes | freemangordon: sorry i should test it again, it's been a few days since first test |
| 20:35.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, who knows |
| 20:35.38 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: yep |
| 20:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: we already are about to test it ;-D |
| 20:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | though strace with timestamps/profiling would be highly appreciated too, of course |
| 20:37.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | was that strace that even prints statistics of average/min/max duration for each function called? |
| 20:37.31 | freemangordon | iterating 1000000 times takes ages |
| 20:37.46 | freemangordon | Nokia-N900:~# time ./opentest |
| 20:37.46 | freemangordon | real 0m 33.67s |
| 20:37.46 | freemangordon | user 0m 5.02s |
| 20:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 20:37.47 | freemangordon | sys 0m 26.62s |
| 20:37.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ages? |
| 20:38.06 | freemangordon | will try 10000 times |
| 20:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's 26us per open() |
| 20:38.37 | freemangordon | yep |
| 20:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | about what I expected |
| 20:38.50 | freemangordon | combine that with /usr/share/local |
| 20:39.08 | freemangordon | so 50us per open |
| 20:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you mean the symlink dereference? |
| 20:39.56 | freemangordon | I mean that it searches /home/user first, then /usr/share/local and then /usr/share |
| 20:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
| 20:40.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
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| 20:40.41 | freemangordon | keep in mind my device is OC to 805 |
| 20:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, correctly:twice the number of open() calls |
| 20:41.03 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 20:41.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then, how many icons can a arbitrary app open()? |
| 20:41.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1000? |
| 20:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5000? |
| 20:41.51 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: not sure how many of them are in the gtk theme |
| 20:42.00 | freemangordon | but there are lots of them |
| 20:42.03 | freemangordon | I'd say thousands |
| 20:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | an app will not open all existing icons, only the ones it needs |
| 20:42.38 | freemangordon | iirc gtk builds a list |
| 20:42.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :EEEEK: |
| 20:42.57 | freemangordon | not sure about that one though |
| 20:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | list processing is DA SHITE, the killer for every program |
| 20:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM is slow mainly for list processing I guess |
| 20:43.50 | freemangordon | but iirc everytime you create a new GtkStyle (or whatever it was called) you got a copy of the default style |
| 20:44.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | use strace, and time |
| 20:44.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | will tell |
| 20:44.31 | freemangordon | xes: when those open()calls happe? only on modest startup or all over the place |
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| 20:45.04 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: HAM is slow, because libapt (c++ library) is slow in iterating all of packages |
| 20:45.28 | xes | ps aux | grep modest and strace -e open -p the second one. Then open modest app |
| 20:45.38 | Pali | I already found hot code (for loop), but there is no way how to speed up it |
| 20:45.57 | freemangordon | xes: op |
| 20:45.59 | freemangordon | *ok |
| 20:49.06 | xes | freemangordon: then start opening mails from your inbox... |
| 20:50.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, can't do since no modest configured here |
| 20:50.20 | freemangordon | xes: about 5 open() call per mail |
| 20:50.26 | freemangordon | not much of a win |
| 20:50.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you might be right (re dir hardlinks) |
| 20:51.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.14 | xes | freemangordon: yep. Not enough to explain the difference |
| 20:51.14 | freemangordon | xes: this has no visible effect |
| 20:51.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty verbose explanation |
| 20:51.33 | kerio | i'm not "probably" right |
| 20:51.35 | kerio | i'm right |
| 20:52.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you're *probably* right, since >>note: will *probably* fail << |
| 20:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it depends on filesystem |
| 20:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and on build options |
| 20:52.43 | freemangordon | xes: it'd be good if you can do some real measurement, like DocScrutinizer05 proposed ^^^, with strace timing |
| 20:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.44 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ext* FS does not allow you to create hard link on directories |
| 20:53.52 | Pali | ext* kernel drivers reject it |
| 20:54.06 | Pali | and I think that in recent kernel versions also VFS reject it |
| 20:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: that's what I suspected |
| 20:54.51 | Pali | but I read that somebody successfully edited ext4 kernel driver (removed restriction) and it worked :-) |
| 20:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough on NTFS it works |
| 20:55.02 | freemangordon | Pali: seems like you and fbalbi will become friends at the end :D |
| 20:55.04 | Pali | but there was problem with find utility |
| 20:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | though only with a special tool |
| 20:55.38 | Pali | but after next fsck.ext4 call, it removed that duplicate directory hard-link |
| 20:55.49 | kerio | the filesystem tree should be a directed acyclic graph |
| 20:56.01 | kerio | if you allow directory hardlinks, you add the possibility for cycles |
| 20:56.14 | kerio | and that would confuse the hell out of everyone |
| 20:56.15 | Pali | kerio: right, DAG is very good for FS :-) |
| 20:56.32 | kerio | bindmounts don't have bindmounts in them |
| 20:56.37 | kerio | that's why they're allowed |
| 20:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: LOL |
| 20:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | @ fsck |
| 20:57.15 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: so if you create somehow direcory hardlink (hexedit /dev/sda), then every FS code/part will remove it :D |
| 20:57.25 | Pali | kernel driver, fsck, ... |
| 20:57.27 | kerio | does fsck do "garbage collection"? |
| 20:57.34 | kerio | like, if you forcibly remove a directory entry |
| 20:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: indeed I thnk that's what I did in kernel 1.x |
| 20:57.40 | kerio | but the files inside are still there |
| 20:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I laughed my ass off |
| 20:57.58 | kerio | yeah, such fun |
| 20:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for reminding me on that episode |
| 20:58.14 | kerio | also, kernel 1? |
| 20:58.15 | kerio | holy shit you're old |
| 20:58.23 | Pali | kerio: fsck will connect disconnected directories/files to /lost+found |
| 20:58.28 | kerio | Pali: ooh right |
| 20:58.38 | kerio | that's what it's for |
| 21:03.03 | Pali | here is that post but is in czech: https://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/urandom/2011/11/hardlink-na-adresare (but maybe there are other sk/cz people) |
| 21:04.04 | Pali | most important is: directory hardlink to / is really bad idea, it is not possible to unlink it! |
| 21:04.16 | kerio | LOL |
| 21:04.21 | Pali | and it make sense, that unlink is not possible |
| 21:04.36 | Pali | this is totally damaged FS, if you have two inodes which are / |
| 21:08.22 | kerio | is / a particular inode? |
| 21:08.43 | kerio | like, is it always 0 or 1 |
| 21:13.47 | Pali | hm... yes, / is some magic inode... but what fsck can do if it finds more / inodes? |
| 21:13.59 | kerio | stop, drop and roll |
| 21:14.14 | kerio | ok |
| 21:14.15 | kerio | to be fair |
| 21:14.24 | kerio | any entry for / inside a directory is wrong |
| 21:14.30 | kerio | obviously |
| 21:14.37 | Pali | yes |
| 21:16.38 | Pali | https://www.xkcd.com/981/ |
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| 21:38.18 | xes | freemangordon: i have tried a few test with strace -Tttt and -c ... nothing gives a result that could justify a better performance |
| 21:38.39 | freemangordon | xes: well, the it is a placebo :) |
| 21:38.43 | freemangordon | *then |
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| 21:41.09 | xes | freemangordon: yes, could be a placebo.. Did you observed some difference? |
| 21:41.58 | freemangordon | yes, but it might be because of some background activity |
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| 21:46.03 | xes | freemangordon: background activity? |
| 21:46.33 | freemangordon | yep, someone else yeating CPU cycles and slowing a bit modes |
| 21:46.40 | freemangordon | *eating |
| 21:55.30 | xes | btw, other apps are searching for /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache (for example hildon-status-menu) but that file does not exist. Do you have it? |
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| 21:56.10 | freemangordon | xes: no |
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| 22:00.23 | xes | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12144 |
| 22:00.26 | povbot | 04Bug 12144: Make gtk-update-icon-cache work as advertised |
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| 22:17.42 | xes | freemangordon: this is the latest gtk+2.0 that still has a working gtk-update-icon-cache http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/g/gtk+2.0/libgtk2.0-bin_2.14.7-1maemo12%2b0m5_armel.deb |
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