| 00:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: we found a 1GB PoP RAM chip |
| 00:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably |
| 00:00.42 | xes | wow! Great! |
| 00:01.48 | nox- | neo900 will have 1 GB ram? |
| 00:05.02 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: have you found a schematics with that useful chip? |
| 00:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, some user pointed me at a micron site I visited several times already but managed to miss the relevant detail |
| 00:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/issues/516/ |
| 00:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: I hope so |
| 00:08.14 | nox- | very nice :) |
| 00:10.49 | nox- | Depth 256Mb |
| 00:10.51 | nox- | hm? |
| 00:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | depth is irrelevant |
| 00:11.12 | nox- | i c |
| 00:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | density is the key value |
| 00:11.36 | nox- | ah |
| 00:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | depth is probably the number of bits the controller reads/writes in parallel from the cell matrix |
| 00:12.47 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: this could be interesting: http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/omap_applications_processors/f/447/t/168425.aspx |
| 00:13.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1st guess: L2 |
| 00:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, L4 |
| 00:18.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, probably a configuration question |
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| 00:37.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: I actually wonder which config has which benefits, comparing L2 (which I had oped for) and L4 |
| 00:37.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | opted* |
| 00:52.54 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: probably we should choose between L2 or L4 considering which chip is still available |
| 01:00.38 | xes | ..in fact there is no MT46H256M32L2JV-5 IT available.. L4 is the only option to obtain 1GB - and also it is tagged as "contact factory" (not in production) |
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| 02:02.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | DANG! |
| 02:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | micron tagged it as "recommended for new designs" |
| 02:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | OHDAMN! only the R4 |
| 02:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=21&y=16&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=+MT46H256M32L4JV :ยด( |
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| 02:53.27 | bef0rd | N900 booting XNU http://pic.twitter.com/RlQAjaCSPb :o |
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| 09:45.53 | LowMemory | ~afk |
| 09:45.53 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, afk is Away From Keyboard |
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| 10:30.52 | vi__ | What is the obsession with metal phones? |
| 10:31.02 | vi__ | Do people not realise metal blocks RF? |
| 10:32.04 | mashina | "but cheap" |
| 10:32.21 | mashina | ...but people don't realize metal can feel cheap too |
| 10:32.35 | mashina | i have a stack of nokia C3s and they might have a metal back but it feels cheap |
| 10:32.59 | mashina | my plastic N900? not so much. even a samsung (infamous for cheap plastic) feels fairly solid |
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| 12:46.57 | solofight | what tool do you guys use to convert your pc into a wifi hotspot ? |
| 12:47.34 | solofight | i own a nokia n900 and when i try mhotspot tool - the device is not able to get an ip address from the software |
| 12:47.38 | solofight | any ideas ? |
| 12:50.14 | psycho_oreos | mobilehotspot tool turns your N900 into a wifi sort of hotspot. I don't know why you would want to do that when you want to turn your PC into a wifi hotspot. |
| 12:51.53 | solofight | psycho_oreos: i have a usb data card internet connected to my PC. I want to convert my PC into a hotspot so that i can connect my n900 to it for internet |
| 12:52.38 | psycho_oreos | solofight, so I'd use something like USB tethering, it seems miles easier. |
| 12:53.08 | solofight | psycho_oreos: any suggestion on the tool to do that ? |
| 12:54.05 | psycho_oreos | solofight, it is on the maemo wiki. |
| 12:54.18 | psycho_oreos | Called something like USB networking. |
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| 13:00.23 | solofight | psycho_oreos: thanks - read about it in the maemo docs... but that procedure will only enable maemo devices to connect right ? But if i can make my laptop a wifihotspot then i can connect any devices right ? |
| 13:01.21 | psycho_oreos | solofight, virtually any other devices can connect yes. Though you still need knowledge on networking in order to make sense of it all. |
| 13:01.38 | solofight | psycho_oreos: i am a fast learner |
| 13:02.32 | psycho_oreos | solofight, so learn TCP/IP networking. It will give you a huge insight of how to troubleshoot networking issues. |
| 13:12.20 | psycho_oreos | To think collectively, nobody can learn TCP/IP completely in overnight. If you are looking for a more sane option in the time being. I suggest to look for a simpler solution rather than a do-all, be-all, end-all solution. That is get one device to work at a time if and when you need that other device to use your computer's internet connection rather than understanding the entire underlying protocols. |
| 13:13.40 | psycho_oreos | Had it been me I would have deduced from a more easier option in the mean time as learning TCP/IP does not necessarily grant me the wisdom to tackle a simple problem at hand. solofight |
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| 13:26.33 | vi__ | just run mobile hotspot shell script. |
| 13:27.24 | vi__ | It puts your NIC into master(?) mode and routes you through iptables. |
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| 13:28.32 | psycho_oreos | mobile hotspot.. what? on N900? master/AP mode on N900? |
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| 13:30.11 | winocm | https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/403751170298380288 |
| 13:30.14 | winocm | eheheheh |
| 13:30.30 | winocm | still need to implement twl4030 keypad support later |
| 13:30.33 | winocm | and watchdog |
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| 13:43.54 | vi__ | psycho_oreos: ...yes. |
| 13:44.00 | vi__ | what is surprising about this? |
| 13:44.53 | psycho_oreos | t... *facepalms* you do realise that is not real master/AP mode on N900 right? |
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| 14:06.57 | vi__ | ... |
| 14:07.01 | vi__ | u wot mate. |
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| 14:09.22 | vi__ | I thought the updated wl1251 driver supported ap mode. |
| 14:09.26 | psycho_oreos | 1) I am not your mate, 2) master/AP mode on wl1251 has been widely discussed from long time ago. |
| 14:09.34 | vi__ | Don't facepalm at me son. |
| 14:09.48 | vi__ | Well fuck you too then. |
| 14:10.04 | Wizzup | children |
| 14:10.11 | Wizzup | we are all one under the teapot |
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| 14:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | play nice, kids! |
| 14:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | softmac would allow AP mode |
| 14:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | if some smart hacker would implement a softmac for WL1251 |
| 14:30.37 | zamn900 | hello |
| 14:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 14:31.43 | zamn900 | what's up DocScrutinizer05 |
| 14:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | busy as usual |
| 14:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | softmac would need to exploit monitor and injection |
| 14:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and aiui both has been enabled by the improved wlan drivers |
| 14:35.11 | psycho_oreos | As I last understood it, proper master/AP mode requires tertiary firmware which TI will never release. |
| 14:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for hardmac sure |
| 14:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | you understand the concept of softmac? |
| 14:36.26 | psycho_oreos | Yeah roughly, the firmware sits on the host machine as a file requiring the host machine to shove that firmware onto the chip in order to make use of it. |
| 14:36.46 | jaska | nah, softmac = host machine does the job of the tertiary firmware |
| 14:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole stack is handled on Application Processor Environment (aka "in the driver") and the WLAN chip only used as PHY |
| 14:36.53 | Hurrian | AP mode firmware for wl1251 was never released? |
| 14:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: nope, that's hardmac |
| 14:37.27 | jaska | usually the wlan chip will do some of the timing-critical stuff even in softmac |
| 14:37.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the "cpu" that exectutes the firmware is in the WLAN chip |
| 14:37.38 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, hardmac requires flashing, softmac doesn't need that. |
| 14:37.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's correct however doesn't tell much |
| 14:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | though "flashing" is relative term here |
| 14:38.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | uploading firmware also is a valid way to run hardmac |
| 14:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter if it's done once and stored in wlan flash or if it's done each time on chip init |
| 14:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | in softmac the whole stack is run on APE, while with hardmac the "firmware" runs on a cpu in wlan chip |
| 14:40.14 | psycho_oreos | Initially hardmac's implmentation was into some EEPROM, though manufacturers have transitioned slowly away from EEPROM to more host dependent firmware. |
| 14:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | while that's partially correct representation of historical facts, it's quite unrelated to the differentiation between softmac and hardmac |
| 14:41.28 | psycho_oreos | The real question here is, has the master/AP mode been finally implemented on N900? |
| 14:41.46 | psycho_oreos | In other words, can one simply run hostapd and it will work? |
| 14:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | right, it is the question if somebody has created a comprehensive softmac for 1251 |
| 14:42.48 | psycho_oreos | ^ In a nutshell, no. Simply put. |
| 14:42.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | (since I don't hope for a AP-enabled firmware blob to show up ever) |
| 14:43.11 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't be holding my breath on one. |
| 14:43.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | (which would allow for hardmac-based AP mode) |
| 14:44.45 | psycho_oreos | People often confuse mobilehotspot and the like program on N900 as if N900 has some proper master/AP mode. Technically that is not the case, clearly iwconfig tells one that it is in Ad-Hoc mode. |
| 14:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: yep |
| 14:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: also yep |
| 14:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~woli softmac |
| 14:45.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki softmac |
| 14:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bash wikipedia |
| 14:47.44 | infobot | ACTION beats wikipedia with ksh |
| 14:48.46 | psycho_oreos | Old prism54 driver website had a fairly good explanation of softmac drivers in a nutshell. |
| 14:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/search?q=prism54+softmac |
| 14:49.42 | psycho_oreos | Anyway we can go on forever endlessly discussing differences between hard and softmac. It doesn't change anything for the fact that wl1251 remains incapable of doing proper master/AP mode. |
| 14:49.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, you beat me to it |
| 14:50.12 | psycho_oreos | Haha, I can say we think alike lol. |
| 14:50.35 | psycho_oreos | Well on that part that is.. |
| 14:50.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: how so? wl1251 could support softmac and then anybody savvy enough can inplement proper AP mode |
| 14:51.00 | Hurrian | thing is, i doubt you'll find a wl1251 AP mode firmware floating around, WiLink4.0 wasn't used on many devices. |
| 14:51.25 | Hurrian | plus, implementing AP mode support in-driver for it would be an enormous PITA |
| 14:51.59 | Hurrian | I just finished doing AP mode enablement for the N9, the commits add up to around half the driver in itself :/ |
| 14:52.06 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, I thought wl1251 was already largely a softmac for that matter. Also yes anyone could implement it but nobody would actually do it. Which is a dilemma in itself. |
| 14:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui packet injection allows WLAN chip to get used as "PHY" and thus defining packets to get sent completely under software control |
| 14:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and packet injection enabled drivers have been published long time ago |
| 14:53.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | same goes for monitor mode and RX |
| 14:53.31 | psycho_oreos | kvalo for instance would easily be able to write one up easily, afterall he was the one that ported the support for linux. Though would he release an master/AP capable driver/firmware? unlikely. |
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| 14:54.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/p54 |
| 14:54.58 | Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: it'd be pretty much a PoC then - you'd have to be in promisc to grap ALL the frames from all STA and then filter it out, then decode packets. |
| 14:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | (fullmac=hardmac) |
| 14:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hurrian: that's exactly what softmac does |
| 14:55.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's also the reason why we can't use softmac for embedded: it keeps CPU busy all the time and cuts thru battery in hours |
| 14:56.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that however doesn't mean the wl1251 never could do it |
| 14:57.08 | Hurrian | I guess having a dumb RF frontend passing you the frames saves you the FFT needed to decode it from all the other RF, but all that processing has to take some crazy toll on the N900's 3430 |
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| 14:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | FFT? |
| 14:58.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not talking about SDR here |
| 14:58.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN tuners/decoders are usually not FFT based |
| 14:58.28 | Hurrian | yep, yep, I meant that compared to full SDR, it's not as big a performance hit, but still, it's a big performance hit :P |
| 14:58.35 | Hurrian | ah. |
| 14:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | way too mcuh overhead for nothing |
| 14:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not comletely sure which modulation WLAN is using, but I'm absolutely sure they use hw-demodulators in the WLAN chip |
| 15:01.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Data_rates |
| 15:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN chips use discrete tuner and hw decoders/demodulators |
| 15:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 15:03.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the "PHY" level |
| 15:03.56 | psycho_oreos | Ahh I see where I went wrong with my quote, I was generalising. Let me correct my quote. I meant that in WL1251's current stance it is incapable of doing master/AP mode, for the greater public. |
| 15:04.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | on top of that works either a fullmac/hardmac protocol stack on a dedicated CPU in the WLAN chip, or a softmac protocol stack implemented on the host in a softmac driver |
| 15:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | wl1251 by design is a hardmac chip |
| 15:05.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | with the firmware getting loaded on each chip init from APE |
| 15:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | (other hardmac chips may have the firmware on local flash storage) |
| 15:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you can run almost every arbitrary hardmac-enabled chip in softmac mode |
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| 15:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | suspending the chip's CPU and controlling the PHY aka radio directly from APE |
| 15:07.26 | psycho_oreos | That's what prism54 project did, making a hardmac act as a softmac where everything is much more easier to work with. |
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| 15:08.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | prism54 had a CPU and most cards came with a hardmac firmware, yes |
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| 15:08.26 | psycho_oreos | I guess wl1251 is the same more or less. I mean a real hardmac would still boot without the firmware in place in theory. However it was made to act like a softmac because it was probably far easier to implement. |
| 15:08.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | not all cards came with a flash to store the firmware on it |
| 15:08.52 | psycho_oreos | Yeah because of the cost factor supposedly, but there's other contributing factors. |
| 15:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless you could run all prism54 in softmac mode, not using the on-chip CPU at all |
| 15:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or just to forward register values to inerface and vice versa |
| 15:10.19 | psycho_oreos | That was what gave birth to p54, amongst two other main issues when dealing with fullmac mode. |
| 15:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the prism54 project also worked on a FOSS hardmac "firmware" implementation |
| 15:11.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | but afaik that got abandoned eventually |
| 15:11.41 | psycho_oreos | That sort of reminds me of b43's fwwf project. |
| 15:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the documentation of the on-chip CPU and system at large never been comprehensive enough to make that FOSS hardmac a reall success |
| 15:12.01 | psycho_oreos | I mean in a different sense of course, it was a FOSS alternative to softmac but was free. |
| 15:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a working softmac FOSS implementation for prism54 |
| 15:12.56 | psycho_oreos | Supposedly the history states that intersil was once very open about the specs with their hardware, hence that was why the support was widespread. After conexant took over, the policy radically changed. |
| 15:13.34 | psycho_oreos | Not islsm I think it is right? |
| 15:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | again: softmac: code runs on linux APE CPU. Hardmac: code runs on a dedicated CPU insde WLAN chip |
| 15:15.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://lekernel.net/prism54/faq.html ;-) |
| 15:17.01 | psycho_oreos | Heh cheers, looking at this old link brings back nostalgia. Yeah freemac was the right word. |
| 15:18.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>SoftMAC works with all chipsets, even those designed for FullMAC<< |
| 15:19.33 | psycho_oreos | Yeah again, that was what became p54 project. Forcing fullmac devices to act as softmac so that they are on the same level playing field as those softmac by design chipsets. |
| 15:20.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that could basically be done with any hardmac chip |
| 15:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nothing stops you from implementing AP-mode aka infrastructure-mode into your softmac |
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| 15:23.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw lekernel is an active user in #openmoko-cdevel and #qi-hardware |
| 15:24.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe not so active in #openmoko-cdevel lately |
| 15:24.09 | psycho_oreos | In theory of course for the wl1251, the fact still remains that wl1251 does not have master/AP mode in its current implementation for the public. |
| 15:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the firmware doesn't support AP mode |
| 15:24.38 | psycho_oreos | That handle brings back memories, I remember talking to him one day about p54u stuff coincidentally. |
| 15:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and possibly the on-chip CPU is simply not capable of supporting it |
| 15:26.27 | psycho_oreos | Initially people were hoping for a tertiary firmware, but of course that never happened. To implement master/AP mode on the host machine still requires someone with intimate knowledge of the wl1251 chipset. Which again points back to kvalo. |
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| 15:31.52 | psycho_oreos | I was looking for an old screenshot of prism54 with iwconfig when it is not associated. It had a cool description (for what it was back then). Also I remember earlier NIT devices featured STelectronics wlan which were similar to something off the intersil family. |
| 15:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>We are pleased to inform all our Jolla pre-booking customers that you will soon receive instructions on how to complete your order via our webshop. ... In order to secure your priority delivery during December, please make sure you have completed your purchase by 2 December, 2013.<< |
| 15:32.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | [email] |
| 15:33.41 | sono | don't tempt me doc |
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| 15:33.57 | sono | i only need one phone =p |
| 15:37.14 | psycho_oreos | Ahh found something that would suffice: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-461617.html (first thread, check the iwconfig output). Pure nostalgia when using prism54 driver. |
| 15:38.57 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: wl1251 using mac80211 so it is sotfmac driver |
| 15:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 15:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardly |
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| 15:40.30 | Pali | TI wl1251 driver support -- This will enable TI wl1251 driver support. The drivers make use of the mac80211 stack. |
| 15:40.52 | Pali | wl1251 is softmac driver for sure |
| 15:41.17 | Pali | there is monitor mode which comes from mac80211 stack |
| 15:42.28 | Pali | p54 driver is softmac too (it using new softmac firmware also for old devices which was previously hardmac...) |
| 15:42.49 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: but softmac is not enough for AP mode |
| 15:43.15 | Pali | driver/firmware must support AP |
| 15:43.20 | psycho_oreos | Hahaha we were just discussing that moments ago, seems like the ramifications just don't end. :D |
| 15:43.31 | Pali | and our wl1251 firmware does not support it |
| 15:43.53 | Pali | only month ago TI released redistributable firmware for wl1251 |
| 15:44.13 | Pali | and md5sum of that released firmware is same as in n900 |
| 15:44.44 | psycho_oreos | o.O lol in other words TI is still firm on their policy of no master/AP mode. |
| 15:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Ti wl1251 is a softmac (software based Media Access Control) and has firmware sitting on the oneNAND which normally is uploaded<< sounds pretty much paradox ( http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1085471&postcount=41 ) |
| 15:46.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | softmac == NO FIRMWARE |
| 15:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically |
| 15:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | since firmware is running on CPU on WLAN chip, which is pretty much the definition of hardmac |
| 15:47.19 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: no, with softmac driver you are implementing MAC layer in kernel driver, but this is not enough for AP |
| 15:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's what I'm elaborating on since ~ 1h |
| 15:48.39 | Pali | hmmm... maybe it is possible to use packet injection to implement AP in SW? |
| 15:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if MAC layer was implemented completely in kernel driver, then our dear battery was depleted in 4h |
| 15:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: see what I wrote above |
| 15:49.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, softmac/software based AP would exploit injection mode |
| 15:49.34 | psycho_oreos | You know, there was something else also ironically funny. nokia supposedly patented the tethering to computer or something which forces android phones to come with master/AP mode when using something like wifi hotspot. Now there are some old android devices with wl1251 chipset in them I am certain. I wonder how will the manufacturers treat those instance? still enforce Ad-Hoc? or not have a compatible program for wifi hotspot with affected devices? |
| 15:49.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and monitor mode |
| 15:50.51 | psycho_oreos | Yeah in fact aircrack-ng's project specifically targets that, notably the tool is airbase-ng. |
| 15:51.12 | psycho_oreos | One is able to create a fake AP which would broadcast in monitor mode as if it is a real AP. |
| 15:51.23 | Pali | maybe we can ask hostapd developers if it is possible to implement AP support with monitor + packet injection |
| 15:52.14 | psycho_oreos | I somehow don't think that is a good idea. |
| 15:54.09 | psycho_oreos | wifi chipset manufacturers are already somewhat unhappy that rfmon was found by hackers and made it available to the public. If one were to implement AP support via the loophole would enrage manufacturers to patch rfmon. |
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| 15:59.27 | psycho_oreos | broadcom for instance I bet deliberately removed rfmon functionality from their wl driver but have left the functionality within the windows driver: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2008/Nov/506 |
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| 20:45.14 | Ken-Young | I have an N950 which is in perfect shape, and which I never use. I can't sell it, because I don't really own it; It's on "loan" from Nokia, and I'm pretty confident they'll never come looking for it. What should I do with it? Is there any community project that could really make good use of a "donated" N950? |
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| 21:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ken-Young: nope |
| 21:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | My suggestion: sell it, but for not less than 1500$ |
| 21:10.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply keep it |
| 21:10.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | to brag ;-) |
| 21:10.44 | sixwheeledbeast | I'd suggest donating to a future Coding Comp if you really don't want it. |
| 21:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a brilliant idea |
| 21:11.04 | Win7Mac | great idea! |
| 21:11.27 | Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer05, I wouldn't feel right about selling it; I feel bad enough already for having let it sit idle for so long. I don't own it. I've just *got* it. |
| 21:11.48 | Ken-Young | I guess I should see if some Mer or Sailfish person wants it. |
| 21:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I know the contract |
| 21:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely mer and sailfish are not nokia ;-) |
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| 21:12.28 | Ken-Young | I'd certainly be willing to put it up as the prize in a coding competition. |
| 21:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather nokia's hardest competitor |
| 21:12.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that would be best use, and actually in the sense of the contract you probably signed |
| 21:13.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | all the loaners been supposed to get handed on to next developer when not used anymore (admittedly on Nokia requesting that) |
| 21:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think a pize for a competition on maemo coding is 100% in spirit of that regulation |
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| 21:15.05 | sixwheeledbeast | This is why I suggest CC, it will hopefully find a dev willing to code for harmattan. That was the point of them after all ;) |
| 21:15.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afk for an inverview ;-) |
| 21:15.37 | sixwheeledbeast | o/ |
| 21:16.27 | Ken-Young | Hmmmm - I'd be more excited by a Fremantle competition. |
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| 21:31.49 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
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