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| 06:40.52 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/15/jolla_phones_to_ship_in_november/ |
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| 10:38.06 | zemmy | did anyone think about google service(google music/play) adding it at Musikloud ? |
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| 11:05.21 | FIQ | LTE is planned for neo900, but which frequencys will be supported if you go ahead with the planned modem for that? |
| 11:09.50 | FIQ | tried to research this a bit, but didn't find what I was looking for |
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| 11:12.00 | zemmy | it's a protocol... using the LTE feature and is an hardware upgrade such as a plugging thing for with microusb |
| 11:12.14 | zemmy | the protocol does not mean frequency |
| 11:12.36 | zemmy | the protocol LTE support all its frequencys |
| 11:16.23 | FIQ | zemmy: from what I understand regarding mobile connectivity, operators operate on different frequencies for each protocol (i.e. UMTS, LTE, etc) and that the module used for the connectivity has to support it on at least one of these to be able to use it |
| 11:16.50 | FIQ | perhaps my question wasn't clear enough |
| 11:17.44 | kolp | FIQ: specific chips for the neo900 have not been decided on, afaik. Also, there is #neo900 ;) |
| 11:18.20 | FIQ | for example, my current operator has 4 different LTE networks, and one of the alternatives looked at (GTM801) supports 3 of them (found the "feasibility" document), so it seems fine |
| 11:18.22 | zemmy | yes... frequency is part or that protocol... UMTS and GSM and LTE are all protocols... using different frequencies... that's right... but LTE uses all its frequencies... do you want to read more on wikipedia? maybe you wish reading about your country frequency bandwidth |
| 11:18.42 | FIQ | kolp: all right, didn't know that, ty |
| 11:18.47 | FIQ | @ #neo900 existed |
| 11:19.26 | zemmy | #neo900 |
| 11:19.35 | FIQ | zemmy: I already found the frequency bandwidth list for my operator, it's fine |
| 11:19.43 | zemmy | alright then |
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| 15:13.06 | WizardNumberNext | hello. I have rather unusual problem. I have 3 N900, 1 have busted modem. I am trying to get bootmenu-backupmenu working on one with busted modem. It was working previously, even after full reflash (excluding CMT). Now no matter what I do I cannot seam to make backupmenu working. I would appreatiate any insight. |
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| 15:15.13 | WizardNumberNext | BTW. The problem is on my 1st n900. I just have reflashed my 2nd n900 and backupmenu is working there. |
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| 15:34.11 | ShadowJK | Does backupmenu install? Does it start? |
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| 15:52.10 | stevenm | This has probably been asked before but I'm finding it hard locating a topic about it... Since MS has acquired the devices division of Nokia... does this mean any of the Nokia-owned portions of Maemo are now owned by MS? Does this pose a problem? |
| 15:52.27 | stevenm | Or did MS just get the Lumia-related line of devices |
| 15:52.47 | GI_Jack | stevenm, maemo is open source and run by the community now |
| 15:53.12 | stevenm | GI_Jack, I thought it still had some ties to Nokia left - or did all the closed source stuff get re-implemented? |
| 15:53.35 | GI_Jack | stevenm, closed source stuff, no, but the community still maintains the software, and releases new updates |
| 15:53.44 | GI_Jack | and adds new features |
| 15:53.50 | GI_Jack | there is even a community kernel |
| 15:54.12 | stevenm | GI_Jack, how can it maintain the closed source stuff without the source? if nokia has it (and now MS has it) then there is a question about how co-operative they'll be going forward. |
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| 15:54.20 | GI_Jack | nokia has completely abandoned the n900 |
| 15:54.30 | GI_Jack | there is no more support for it |
| 15:54.39 | GI_Jack | closed source things are going to be things like hardware drivers |
| 15:54.45 | GI_Jack | things like the kernel are open, and customizable |
| 15:55.06 | stevenm | well drivers are still important - as is stuff like the skype integration and flash |
| 15:55.09 | GI_Jack | its a tad of a stumbling block because its stuck at kernel 2.6.28, because nothing later will really work |
| 15:55.16 | GI_Jack | stevenm, it doesn't change, same as is |
| 15:55.20 | stevenm | nokia clearly had partnerships with both to integrate those |
| 15:55.46 | GI_Jack | well no, skype and flash closed source bits don't get maintained really |
| 15:55.55 | GI_Jack | adobe ported flash 10 a while ago, but that was it |
| 15:55.59 | GI_Jack | it runs slow as dogshit anyway |
| 15:56.09 | stevenm | but they are a part of maemo - heck skype is integrated with telepathy |
| 15:56.37 | GI_Jack | they aren't just willy nilly importing new versions from upstream if thats what your asking |
| 15:56.59 | stevenm | no that's not what I'm asking |
| 15:57.31 | GI_Jack | some vauge concept of "rights" |
| 15:57.40 | GI_Jack | I am sure ms owns the IP rights to the phone |
| 15:58.07 | GI_Jack | maemo is enough open source it would be able to work as a community project, none of the closed components are critical |
| 15:58.12 | stevenm | I'm asking what has Nokia(MS) got left... that should/could be given up to the maemo community to make it more independent... clearly they still have the code to some important bits like drivers, but also useful shared source agreements with skype/flash - and that's just my small understanding - probably more than that |
| 15:58.53 | stevenm | well making/receiving calls, making/receiving texts and such is important, using 3g properly, etc.. they're important - as I understand it even nitdroid don't have all that working |
| 15:58.57 | GI_Jack | stevenm, thats just not going to happen, given they got bought out by microsoft |
| 15:59.06 | stevenm | GI_Jack, precisely my point |
| 15:59.50 | GI_Jack | existing closed source bits need to be re-used as is, meaning using the same kernel 2.6.28, but you can recompile it, and backport features |
| 16:00.11 | stevenm | you couldn't today - recompile and release a full version of maemo for the n900... not without their help. In short the 'maemo community' is a community that pecks and tweaks a dead OS from a company that has turned they're back on it |
| 16:00.16 | GI_Jack | such as the community kernel has a whole host of normal linux features re-added |
| 16:00.41 | stevenm | the only remedy is to release a maemo that is re-implemented in a way that can be totally re-producable solely by that community |
| 16:00.57 | GI_Jack | or.... http://neo900.org/ |
| 16:01.18 | GI_Jack | maemo is reproducable, if you made your own hardware, with your own drivers, something in the works |
| 16:01.20 | GI_Jack | see the link |
| 16:01.31 | GI_Jack | flash and skype should still run on it |
| 16:02.22 | stevenm | no maemo isn't reproducable on n900 |
| 16:02.51 | stevenm | not unless maemo is altered (stripped of bits that can be re-produced) so then it can call itself entirely reproducable |
| 16:02.58 | stevenm | *can't be |
| 16:03.06 | stevenm | *can't be re-produced |
| 16:03.09 | stevenm | you get what i mean |
| 16:05.18 | GI_Jack | yeah |
| 16:05.43 | GI_Jack | its reproducable if you copy the closed source bits, if you want to port it to another device you need drivers |
| 16:06.13 | stevenm | copying!=reproduce |
| 16:06.53 | GI_Jack | so short of a nightime raid on nokia now microsoft's facilities, thats not likely to happen |
| 16:07.16 | GI_Jack | the neo900 will be a motherboard replacement with 4G LTE, a faster chip, and well...open drivers |
| 16:07.43 | anYc | except 3d as far as I understood |
| 16:08.16 | stevenm | which kinda defeats the point, although it looks like an n900 - it's not, it's based off a gta04... and it's not likely that maemo will be pushed as a recommended os for it |
| 16:10.19 | anYc | actually, it is expected to become the recommended os |
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| 16:11.11 | stevenm | anYc, how can it be expected to be the recommended OS when maemo hasn't even had a rerelease that a) has the non-closed stuff taken out and b) is available for more than one device! |
| 16:11.13 | sixwheeledbeast | I would expect so, due to the support and packages from here. |
| 16:11.19 | stevenm | the neo900 isn't really an n900 |
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| 16:11.55 | stevenm | unless there is a downloadable maemo image/installer for another phone that isn't an n900? |
| 16:12.13 | stevenm | because if not then it's just a team of people tinkering with old abandoned firmware |
| 16:12.36 | WizardNumberNext | anything what is not exactly same in both hardware and software isn't n900, stop arging fact |
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| 16:13.59 | WizardNumberNext | I wish I could get some normal GNU/Linux distro working on SS4, but I didn't hear that's possible yet |
| 16:14.02 | stevenm | not that I'm a fan of the ubuntu touch phone thingy os (whatever the heck they're calling it now)... but at least there is a list of devices it can be installed on and instructions |
| 16:14.25 | stevenm | maemo is an n900 only, tweaked version of what is left from a nokia premade image |
| 16:14.41 | anYc | I don't know their plans for flash & skype but they're working on the remaining parts to create an open phone (except the firmware stuff) |
| 16:14.46 | GI_Jack | I'd be fine, if I could get GNU userland running alongside Android on popular android phones |
| 16:15.00 | stevenm | GI_Jack, yeah that'd be nice |
| 16:15.01 | WizardNumberNext | if you are displeased with SP of our times, then build your own from scratch - nobody is preventing you from doing that |
| 16:15.15 | stevenm | the SP? |
| 16:15.17 | GI_Jack | the closeds I've seen is a port of busybox |
| 16:15.32 | WizardNumberNext | why alongside android? |
| 16:15.43 | GI_Jack | WizardNumberNext, I'll get right on that, and I'll mabey have to pay $10k for a phone, because of volume of scale |
| 16:15.53 | GI_Jack | and I don't have the man hours to put in, nor the research facility |
| 16:15.54 | WizardNumberNext | if on VM, then I understand, but android would be guest in my scheme |
| 16:16.01 | stevenm | i'm not displeased with maemo if that's what you mean... as an OS it rocks (more than meego)... i just want to see it _actually_ become a portable OS... not just the leftover firmware that only runs on the hardware it was designed for |
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| 16:16.13 | stevenm | that's the first step - not this neo900 |
| 16:17.23 | WizardNumberNext | I would love to see maemo on other devices, apart from hw dependable code, rest can happily run even os ss4 |
| 16:17.49 | GI_Jack | or any portable working phone OS, that works with a good number of modems and sound cards |
| 16:17.58 | GI_Jack | the bare essentials to work as a phone |
| 16:18.13 | stevenm | WizardNumberNext, 'os ss4'? |
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| 16:18.32 | anYc | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 16:18.41 | WizardNumberNext | GI_Jack: Linux Kernel is very portable and can run on many SP |
| 16:18.57 | WizardNumberNext | s/even os ss4/even on ss4 |
| 16:19.00 | GI_Jack | WizardNumberNext, its not the kernel, its drivers |
| 16:19.02 | WizardNumberNext | s/even os ss4/even on ss4/ |
| 16:19.21 | GI_Jack | Android already runs on those devices so the kernel is not the issue |
| 16:19.24 | stevenm | woah that's a lot more closed packages than I thought |
| 16:19.33 | WizardNumberNext | drivers are in krernel |
| 16:19.42 | WizardNumberNext | loads of them - just have a look |
| 16:19.46 | GI_Jack | I know |
| 16:19.52 | stevenm | and of course the reason why the maemo community can't make a whole new image right? instead it's just "install the lastest one from nokia then..." |
| 16:19.59 | WizardNumberNext | 3.8 support almost every single device in n900 |
| 16:20.03 | WizardNumberNext | not main camera |
| 16:20.11 | GI_Jack | WizardNumberNext, what about the modem |
| 16:20.20 | GI_Jack | the most important part of the phone, the HPSA+ modem |
| 16:20.38 | WizardNumberNext | I assume you can get any samsung exynos based device fully working on linux |
| 16:20.54 | WizardNumberNext | that's biggest problem |
| 16:21.00 | stevenm | this server... tablets-dev.nokia.com is it nokias? (ms's?) if it went offline, who else has the right to re-distribute that firmware? |
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| 16:21.26 | stevenm | because once it's not officially available... a completely reimplemented maemo version (with installer image) is really really needed |
| 16:21.26 | WizardNumberNext | because in most cases you won't ever get specsheet |
| 16:22.47 | WizardNumberNext | stevenm, I don't think that simple installer would work on all devices - you would some flashers for different devices and installing OS on SP - this something what I would never attempt |
| 16:22.59 | WizardNumberNext | flashing OS - yes, but installing - no way |
| 16:23.31 | stevenm | sod an installer... just an image file that can be downloaded without contacting a nokia server would be nice |
| 16:25.04 | stevenm | step 2 would be a second image for some other phone |
| 16:25.31 | stevenm | *then* you can call Maemo an OS that stands on it's own apart from nokia/ms and works multiplatform |
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| 16:25.49 | stevenm | and not just a set of packages to bolt on to ex-nokia firmware |
| 16:26.40 | WizardNumberNext | anyway I still have no idea why I cannot get backupmenu working |
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| 16:56.28 | sono | hm i should look into the kernel related stuff, i just harldy have the time to even play with my current n900 |
| 16:57.27 | sono | i am sure we will not be forced to use nokia 2.6 for neo900 maemo, whatever that will be or look like in userland. |
| 16:58.01 | sono | it wouldn't even make sense (or work) |
| 16:58.20 | sono | doc has to carve out the specs |
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| 17:03.35 | kolp | stevenm: creating the neo900 and getting rid of closed blobs in maemo are parallel efforts. They're neither mutually exclusive nor technically related |
| 17:04.55 | kolp | That was re: <stevenm> that's the first step - not this neo900 |
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| 18:37.44 | Ken-Young | Does anyone have a suggestion for a good tablet that runs something closes to a standard gnu/linux distribution? |
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| 18:39.43 | lexik | maybe PengPod? |
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| 18:40.07 | Ken-Young | lexik, Thanks! I'll take a look at that one. |
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| 19:44.19 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | Please see http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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