IRC log for #maemo on 20131104

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00:25.16mashina_merlin1991: autogen doesn't want to make a install-sh
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01:20.12mashina_i can't get sym popup to appear, huhu?
01:20.26mashina_control & and alt work
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03:39.05SAiFmy media player started playng automatically at 23:00 yesterday.
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09:47.41zamn900good morning! there is a problem
09:48.14zamn900my screen does not sleep alone by it self
09:56.13zamn900there is something wrong with qlockscreen?
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10:11.27HerbstbertI've uninstalled qlockscreen completely
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11:06.16zamn900how much memory need nitroid or android image for running in this 900?
11:06.27zamn900can it run on SD?
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11:24.44DocScrutinizer05memory? dunno but for sure more than the 256MB real memory available, so you'll need swap. Run from SD? sure, I don't know of any other way to run it.
11:25.10DocScrutinizer05well, ok. you could install it to eMMC
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11:25.38DocScrutinizer05but that's honestly not recommended
11:25.57DocScrutinizer05since most likely you soonish will want to get rid of nitdroid again
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11:35.02DocScrutinizer05NOOOOOOW
11:37.18zamn900DocScrutinizer05, goodmorning
11:38.06DocScrutinizer05You bet is is a very good morning for me, hope for you too :-D
11:38.21zamn900nice
11:38.39DocScrutinizer05waits with a fat grin for the last 130EUR to come in
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11:41.13zamn900amyway DocScrutinizer05 my screen in n900 does not sleep
11:41.42zamn900I uninstalled also qtlockscreen
11:41.52zamn900does not matter
11:42.05DocScrutinizer05on charger?
11:42.24zamn900nope
11:42.28zamn900without
11:43.45zamn900is related to KP?
11:43.52zamn900and some overclock?
11:44.20zamn900I installed the kp for overclock and script
11:45.04zamn900and for user... because I wanted to use my minimouse but does not work
11:50.37zamn900DocScrutinizer05,  inactivity without charger I mean
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11:54.02zamn900oh DocScrutinizer05 wa mplayer in background
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13:16.00zamn900hello DocScrutinizer05
13:16.04zamn900urgent
13:16.14zamn900my battery is crazy
13:16.32zamn900it showa that can't go ahead
13:16.40zamn900but it does instead
13:17.07zamn900and idk how to see statua battery in terminal
13:17.31zamn900maybe it's right low level battery
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13:17.53zamn900but as I put the charger it does not charge
13:17.58zamn900so it seems
13:20.35DocScrutinizer05your system is kinda messed up
13:20.48zamn900idk
13:21.00zamn900but it runs well and fast
13:21.32DocScrutinizer05you probably installed some battery-related or charging-related stuff that is broken by design and caused havok on the system
13:22.01zamn900yes
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13:22.07zamn900battery patch
13:22.14DocScrutinizer05OMG!!!!
13:22.20DocScrutinizer05~batterypatch
13:22.20infobot[speedpatch] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch]
13:22.20zamn900so?
13:22.33zamn900lol
13:22.37zamn900so?
13:22.43DocScrutinizer05reflash
13:22.49zamn900oh no
13:23.30DocScrutinizer05it's unclear what nasty stuff those crappatches do to system, but it's a lot and not really uninstalls cleanly for all I know
13:23.41DocScrutinizer05~crappatch
13:23.41infobotrumour has it, speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch]
13:24.02DocScrutinizer05~jrtolls
13:24.06DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
13:24.06infobotjrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
13:24.30KenYoungI got bitten by that patch too.   It overclocked me without me knowing it.   I didn't discover that for weeks.
13:24.47zamn900anyway it is all fine less that it does not show much time is left for battery level
13:24.47DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#AFTER_FLASHING
13:25.01zamn900it seems charged battery
13:25.10zamn900I am still chatting
13:25.46zamn900KenYoung, exactly all my n900 is super overclocked
13:26.03zamn900idk but i dont reflash
13:26.49zamn900anyway DocScrutinizer05 what's the best app for remote control?
13:27.19DocScrutinizer05hm?
13:32.21zamn900cool DocScrutinizer05 the solution is bnf
13:32.34DocScrutinizer05hmm?
13:32.36zamn900it shows the right way battery is
13:32.44DocScrutinizer05hah
13:32.55DocScrutinizer05~bq27k
13:33.03DocScrutinizer05~bq27000
13:33.06DocScrutinizer05dang
13:33.14DocScrutinizer05~listkeys bq
13:33.33DocScrutinizer05~bq27k-detail
13:33.33infoboti guess bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2
13:33.48DocScrutinizer05but bnf is ok, approved by me
13:34.00zamn900yep
13:34.19zamn900it says it charging and good level
13:34.27DocScrutinizer05anyway it will not cure the damage done by those idiotpatches
13:34.58zamn900i know
13:35.11zamn900I am trying other patches
13:36.08DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't try *any* 2patches"
13:36.40DocScrutinizer05basically there is nothing to patch in maemo - it's simply perfect :-P
13:37.07DocScrutinizer05if there's nevertheless something that needs patching, then you find the "patches" for that in CSSU
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13:43.26zamn900dude DocScrutinizer05 the guide says to purge
13:43.46DocScrutinizer05huh?
13:44.11DocScrutinizer05sorry you're speaking in riddles
13:44.58DocScrutinizer05so don't trust the guide, he's an alien
13:45.21DocScrutinizer05and actually a she
13:45.51zamn900lol
13:46.07zamn900I reboot to see if fixed
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14:41.40zamn900DocScrutinizer05, you were fucking right about CSSU
14:42.14zamn900now I removed the battery applet at all remains bnf only
14:42.32zamn900how to remove remaining config
14:42.39zamn900purge maybe?
14:43.18zamn900wow bnf says double minutes of battery life after CSSU OS update and reboot
14:43.23zamn900awsome fuck
14:45.52SAiFAnybody watching out for the Nov 5 2013 event by anonymous? http://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=654291&x=-4.000000&y=40.000000&z=15
14:46.15zamn900nope
14:46.21zamn900let's see
14:46.23GI_Jacknot in particular
14:46.25GI_Jackmight get drunk
14:48.09zamn900what's the anon purpose now in this coming date?
14:49.10SAiFwell, I wonder if that may have an impact on our project.  
14:49.13SAiFjust kidding
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14:50.11zamn900SAiF, that's I am asking too
14:50.29zamn900so what their purpose this time
14:50.32Sysaxednow it says "Let's produce more than 1 000 devices!", what does that mean? :)
14:50.58zamn900idk
14:52.02SAiFNO anon will get in our way. dont bother.
14:52.29zamn900lol why not
14:52.30Sysaxedit would be great if it explained that part, like "spread the word" or "donate more".
14:52.59SAiFSysaxed that means to keep the fundraiser on and to collect max funds so that the productiion cost can be reduced
14:53.47SysaxedSAiF: hmm, okay, then maybe they should set another goal? :)
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14:54.14kolpSysaxed: Yes, to have 1000+ preorders ;)
14:54.50Sysaxedah, okay. :)
14:55.37SAiFI never thought, It would get to 25k that easily.
14:55.49zamn900can be more clair? I dont get the goal
14:55.55SAiFIt was kind of slow at the first quarter.
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15:19.32grammoboysixwheeledbeast, on linux you can run multiple instances of a certain kind of video software, is it possible to display different videos to different tvs using one hardware device with linux?
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15:23.14zamn900oh yeah DocScrutinizer05 is hackfixed now removing its default applet for widget and bnf
15:23.37DocScrutinizer05sorry I still don't get your riddles
15:23.41zamn900it says the right level now
15:23.57chem|stgrammoboy: multiple displays.... from one graphicscard... sure why not?
15:24.01zamn900riddles I ignore the meaning sorry
15:24.06Lava_Croftoh no, not this place
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15:24.12zamn900lol
15:24.27zamn900of course grammoboy
15:24.32DocScrutinizer05TSSS what a cameo
15:24.41zamn900that's pretty possible
15:25.04grammoboyI'm thinking about old TVs as dislplays
15:25.37zamn900ye
15:25.38DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameo_appearance
15:25.43chem|stgrammoboy: there is no difference
15:25.55zamn900right no difference
15:26.04DocScrutinizer05configure multihead
15:27.24grammoboyok thx you hackers
15:28.04chem|stgrammoboy: the keywords you are looking for depending on how old your graphics drivers are, are xinerama|multihead|randr - "old" TVs will depend on the outputs available on your card and the amount of signal converters you have
15:28.50grammoboyprobably one output
15:28.53chem|stgood old scart is nothing else than composite video
15:29.00zamn900I don't feel like hacker
15:29.08grammoboybut I was thinking about something like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/SLx-27820R-Aerial-Distribution-Amplifier/dp/B0014DDOF0
15:29.42grammoboydistribute signal from videocard to multiple tvs via such a distribution amp
15:29.58grammoboybut I don't want the same video on all tvs
15:30.03SAiFsame video in all TVS, v?
15:30.07SAiF?/?
15:30.47SAiFthen you will need more than one output ports
15:31.01grammoboyhm so there is a problem
15:31.13chem|stgrammoboy: I have one of those http://www.amazon.co.uk/KanaaN-Composite-Converter-SHIPPING-DELIVERY/dp/B003U0PHC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383579027&sr=1-1&keywords=vga+converter+to+scart
15:31.31chem|stor similar
15:32.18grammoboyI see, thx
15:32.22chem|stI convert to vga, this one converts from vga
15:32.56grammoboybut according to SAiF multiple videos are problematic
15:33.10DocScrutinizer05hmm?
15:33.32DocScrutinizer05how ould they be problematic unless your CPU's maxed out?
15:33.39chem|stgrammoboy: each TV will need one output from your computer
15:33.40DocScrutinizer05would*
15:33.46DocScrutinizer05yep
15:34.24grammoboya normal computer has one or two outputs right?
15:34.24DocScrutinizer05and you can use graphics cards with multiple outputs, or multiple GraCa, or even both
15:34.51SAiFIf you have a new pc it would have more than one output without graphic card
15:35.02DocScrutinizer05a "normal" comouter has one output, possibly with 2 different connector formfactors
15:35.07SAiFand as Doc said
15:35.47chem|stgrammoboy: I have like 4 or something
15:35.52DocScrutinizer05some high end "normal" computers have 2 outputs that can drive independant signals
15:35.53grammoboyright, so displaying 4 different videos on 4 different tvs, then you need 4 outputs
15:35.53chem|ston one card
15:36.25SAiFI use both graphic and onboard VGA, and I have  a DVI and HDMI left on graphiccad
15:36.55SAiFyes sure..
15:36.55zamn900cssu is awesome
15:37.11SAiFbest option is to get any flux edition cards..
15:37.17SAiF*flex
15:37.58SAiFor new nvidia cards support 4 displays by default
15:38.22grammoboyor buy 4 Rpi's ...
15:38.45grammoboyI hoped I needed one for this
15:39.44chem|stlol
15:41.08grammoboywhat is funny about that
15:42.31zamn900idk
15:43.44chem|stgrammoboy: that is like 100P a card with 4 outputs is like 40P
15:44.45grammoboyI will think about this further
15:45.02grammoboythanks for your expertise
15:45.35DocScrutinizer05P?
15:45.54grammoboy`pounds
15:46.05DocScrutinizer05ooh
15:46.07DocScrutinizer05GBP
15:46.25grammoboynot pennies
15:47.01DocScrutinizer05quite unusual currency
15:47.27SAiFgermany not in Euro?
15:47.32SAiFwhy?
15:47.42DocScrutinizer05eh?
15:48.01SAiFits europe?
15:48.10DocScrutinizer05yeah, I as well wondered why he didn't use EUR
15:48.12Wizzupgermany/.
15:48.16Wizzup?
15:48.46DocScrutinizer05question mark?
15:48.56SAiFEUR.. right. I m from the other side.. lol
15:49.36zamn900does aircrack really work?
15:49.47DocScrutinizer05so yes, we're using EUR in almost all of Europe
15:50.00WizzupDocScrutinizer05: SAiF somehow tseems to think that GBP is in germany
15:50.07WizzupThat is why I am confused.
15:50.13SAiFpractically only work for WEP from n900.
15:50.30SAiFthen what is GBP?
15:50.40DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: weird, given it's Great Britain Pounds
15:50.57SAiFwell LOL..
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15:52.36WizzupDocScrutinizer05: my point exactly :)
15:52.36SAiFI somehow thought G = Germany. :)
15:57.51chem|stSAiF: great britain pound = GBP = pound sterling
15:58.28chem|stand I replied in GBP as his link was amazon.co.uk
15:59.13sixwheeledbeastGBP = pounds sterling - GBP is ISO abbrv. term
15:59.40SAiFSo Britain is not using EUR right?
15:59.43sixwheeledbeastgrammoboy: how you getting on?  I am reading backscroll....
16:00.04SAiFand atleast can i think that all other european countries use EUR?
16:00.38sixwheeledbeastAnd no Britain doesn't want the EUR as the GBP is much stronger :)
16:01.21SAiFthanks for the info..
16:01.54Wizzupsixwheeledbeast: stronger? lol :)
16:02.01chem|stSAiF: there is a difference between euro-zone, EU and Europe...
16:02.02Wizzupoh well
16:02.45chem|stsixwheeledbeast: no they believe their economy will crash if taking €
16:02.59SAiFoops, look like I have to study on that topic chem|st
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16:04.13sixwheeledbeastIt is. Plus it is used throughout the British commonwealth which don't all lie in europe.
16:05.51sixwheeledbeast~change 1 GBP to EUR
16:06.04sixwheeledbeasterr?
16:06.28Sysaxed~change 1£ to €
16:06.37chem|stSAiF: EU is the former "European-Communities" {economic (EEC) + atomic (Euratom) + coal and steel (ECSC)}
16:06.46chem|st~change GBP to EUR
16:06.53chem|st~change 1GBP to EUR
16:07.11chem|st~stupid
16:07.11infobot[stupid] http://fun.drno.de/pics/english/bart.gif
16:07.35SAiFHAHA..
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16:08.13chem|stEU is growing from time to time so is the EuroZone, but they do not match
16:09.27sixwheeledbeastIt seems infobots change feature is borked?
16:09.33chem|stsome baltic countries + norway & island are still not in the EU
16:10.08DocScrutinizer05~convert 1 GBP to USD
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16:11.25DocScrutinizer05change is a command to change factoids
16:11.25chem|st~convert 1 BTC to EUR
16:11.40chem|stDocScrutinizer05: thanks!
16:11.58SAiFso eurozone < EU (eurozone+ Britain + Denmark) < Europe (EU +baltic countries + norway)
16:12.20chem|stkinda
16:12.49SAiFthats enough for me.
16:13.02SAiFmore than enough
16:13.29SAiF~convert 1 EUR to RS
16:14.07SAiF~convert 1 EUR to INR
16:14.31SAiF~liar
16:14.32infobotliar is probably me
16:14.40SAiFyes right.
16:14.52SAiFits 83.39
16:18.11SAiF~convert 1 EUR to USD
16:18.52DocScrutinizer05>>>http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88888&goto=newpost
16:18.54DocScrutinizer05Here is the message that has just been posted:
16:18.55DocScrutinizer05main phone unless a new, advanced version of the n900 is available (not neo900 cz i cant find it)<<<
16:18.58DocScrutinizer05WTF?!
16:19.34sixwheeledbeastI can't believe 1GBP is 2USD more like 1.60USD how up to date is convert?
16:19.39sonowell, we is probably looking on amazon.
16:19.53sonolet me ask mine
16:20.44sono1.6
16:21.49SAiF~convert 1 GBP to USD
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16:24.41SAiFMy mediaplayer started automatically last night. Does this ever happened to anyone else?
16:28.17DocScrutinizer05no
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16:28.47DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: no idea
16:29.42DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: check the source, Luke!
16:29.47DocScrutinizer05;-)
16:30.40SAiFI used the widget to play and pause couple of times, just for fun. Then After two hours idle time, that last song started playing automatically.
16:31.15SAiFLucky that I was not in college.
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16:37.44zamn900hey DocScrutinizer05 is the charger a bit weird or it is so that it works? I mean I plug the charger and it does not charge anymore and says to me to unplug for consume stuff
16:38.41DocScrutinizer05SAiF: was it you who got that defect digitizer?
16:38.53SAiFyes..
16:39.09SAiFwhy?
16:39.11DocScrutinizer05then please stop reporting nonsense until your difitizer is fixed!
16:39.14zamn900I am not kidding or riddling
16:39.39SAiFwell, you think its digitizer error?
16:39.45DocScrutinizer05obviously
16:40.14DocScrutinizer05how else would mediaplayer start playing the song?
16:40.32sonoi couldnt think of anything plausible.. that would at least be reasonably likely
16:40.51zamn900well now works fine bye
16:40.59sonoalso, i finally have to make my donation tonight..
16:41.19sonoi just saw you already exceede the goal
16:41.25sonogreat!
16:42.58SAiFhmm. may be right Doc, but I never felt it has any problem
16:43.44sixwheeledbeastthe riddler as left? SAiF it can only really be the digitizer
16:44.38SAiFWell, No probs.
16:47.33sixwheeledbeastI was playing with a 5800 yesterday with a broken digitizer very intermittent fault. Works ok for a while and then it goes mad.
16:48.38SAiFAfter I replaced with this (not original) one, I never felt an issue. This was the first time.
16:48.50SAiFI guess it is becoming abd
16:48.56SAiF*bad
16:51.20sixwheeledbeastI am thinking it's better to get a "genuine" one for ~11GBP then a non-branded for ~3GBP
16:55.31SAiFseeing the price , it looks like I have original one.it  cost me around ~12 GBP to get it replaced
16:55.38SAiFbut I know its fake
16:55.55sixwheeledbeastdid you replace yourself?
16:55.59SAiFnope
16:56.15sixwheeledbeastif not I would expect most of that is labour
16:56.26SAiFhmm :(
16:57.04sixwheeledbeastI was on about 5800 for prices above BTW
16:57.36SAiFI could have done that easily but, I thought like If he mess it up, I can blame him. :)
16:57.42sixwheeledbeastinfobot
16:57.49SAiFnext time. I will do my self
16:59.28sixwheeledbeastIf he mess it up you won't get another N900 easily anyway. I am a do it myself if I can person tho.
17:03.12SAiFhm
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17:24.56sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: it seems the source says ~exchange is for currency but can't work out format, it grabs them live from xe.com. ~convert is for units.
17:25.08sixwheeledbeast~convert 1 FLOZ to ML
17:25.49sixwheeledbeast~convert 1 floz to ml
17:25.54sixwheeledbeast:)
17:26.01cehtehqalc backend?
17:26.18cehtehinfobot: 1 + 1
17:26.18infobot3
17:26.36cehtehinfobot: 1 ohm * 2 A
17:26.52sixwheeledbeast:) well 1 + 1 is 3
17:27.13cehtehyeah fail
17:27.19sixwheeledbeastin binary
17:27.25cehteh> 1 ohm * 2 A to volt
17:27.25cehteh<PROTECTED>
17:27.36cehteh<3 qalc
17:29.27cehteh> 10!^10!
17:29.28cehtehCalculating (press Enter to abort).
17:29.28cehtehProcessing (press Enter to abort).......
17:29.33cehtehstill spinning :D
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17:32.12SAiFgudnite (UGT)
17:32.53sixwheeledbeast1 plus 1
17:33.07sixwheeledbeast~math 1 plus 1
17:33.13sixwheeledbeastmmm
17:33.49sixwheeledbeast~1 plus 1
17:33.49infobot2
17:33.53sixwheeledbeast:)
17:34.13sixwheeledbeast~23 squared
17:34.13infobot529
17:34.46sixwheeledbeast~66 div 2
17:34.47infobot33
17:34.58sixwheeledbeastcehteh: ^^ :)
17:35.13cehteh.. still spinning :(
17:39.22Defiant"Now the Neo900 has a keyboard and i will not buy it because of that." lol?
17:40.39sixwheeledbeastis that from /. ?
17:40.54anYcmaemo forums
17:41.04sixwheeledbeast:facepalm:
17:41.05Defiantthe now 113 neo900 post
17:45.13sixwheeledbeast~convert 100 tempC to tempF
17:45.18sixwheeledbeastmmm
17:46.48anYcdoes anyone know how 3d performance will change with n900 -> neo900? would also be a interesting point on the Specs site
17:47.22Defiantyou guess we will get a 3d driver?
17:47.48Wizzupwith powervr? ;-)
17:47.57DocScrutinizer05~convert 0 tempK to tempC
17:48.08DocScrutinizer05~1+1
17:48.08infobotmethinks 1+1 is 3 for large values of 1
17:48.15DocScrutinizer05WTF?
17:48.18Wizzuplol
17:48.19Defiantlol
17:48.20DocScrutinizer05~1+7
17:48.21infobot8
17:48.23sixwheeledbeastThat member signed up today to say he didn't want a Neo9 due to keyboard WTF.
17:48.39sixwheeledbeastdoc source says use plus not +
17:48.51anYcDefiant: I don't know, I only read that there will be no _free_ driver
17:49.11sixwheeledbeastplus minus div and times are in math.pl
17:49.12DocScrutinizer05~2^8
17:49.12infobot10
17:49.18DocScrutinizer05~2**8
17:49.18infobot256
17:49.46DocScrutinizer05~5!
17:49.46infoboti heard 5! is 120
17:49.54DocScrutinizer05~55!
17:49.54infoboti heard 55! is 12,696,403,353,658,275,925,965,100,847,566,516,959,580,321,051,449,436,762,275,840,000,000,000,000
17:50.35DocScrutinizer05~log(10)
17:50.43DocScrutinizer05~ln(10)
17:50.52DocScrutinizer05~ln 10
17:51.03jaska~1/0
17:51.10jaska:(
17:51.24DocScrutinizer05~10+Pi
17:51.34DocScrutinizer05~10 + Pi
17:51.46DocScrutinizer05~10 + pi
17:51.46infobot13.14159265
17:52.46cehteh~10^10
17:52.55cehteh~10**10
17:52.55infobot10000000000
17:53.00cehteh~10!**10!
17:53.11cehteh:>
17:53.47cehteh~timout?
17:56.40sixwheeledbeast~10 add pi
17:57.42sixwheeledbeast~10 plus pi
17:57.42infobot13.14159265
18:00.43cehteh~pi pi
18:01.18sixwheeledbeast~botsnack
18:01.18infobot:), sixwheeledbeast
18:01.37cehteh... https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1452486_790049244357864_1042772959_n.jpg take that infobot
18:03.11sixwheeledbeast~shoot cehteh
18:03.11infobotACTION shoots cehteh in the eye with a spitwad!
18:03.26cehtehmean bot
18:04.52sixwheeledbeastFOSS GSM stack illegal?
18:05.24cehtehdepends where and what circumstances
18:05.57cehtehiirc here in germany you can run a FOSS basestation officially if you do some paperwork
18:06.17sixwheeledbeastI was thinking it would depend on country
18:07.48Defiantcehteh: according to some rumours you shouldn't run one. Else you risk to damage every phone in your proximity
18:08.08cehtehhuh?
18:08.41cehtehthe eventphone ppl iirc did that officially and similar on some CCC events
18:08.55cehtehdunno ask ppl who are more involved with this
18:09.15Defiantcehteh: I know. And on the route to that they had quite some fun.
18:10.24Defiantcehteh: Like they turned it one with their own network name. Since it was the strongest network all phones nearby connected to that one.
18:11.54DefiantOf course they showed the new network name on the display. Problem is...they triggered a bug with the phones where from that point on the phones always were showing this network name
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18:28.30sixwheeledbeastSo that's a device issue not a network issue.
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18:38.06Defiantboth, they are afraid that you damage their networks with an open source stack.
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19:38.01zamn900hello I would have the keyboard shortcuts
19:38.15zamn900but it says broken repo
19:40.33lexikzamn900: what? paste the error message somewhere
19:41.31zamn900one moment wait I am giving last try using the HAM
19:45.43zemmylexik, it says missing package : modified-hildon-desktop
19:46.13DocScrutinizer05o.O
19:46.18DocScrutinizer05get CSSU!
19:46.29zemmyI got
19:46.48zemmyit's awesome... but is it useful for what else
19:46.56DocScrutinizer05then forget that shit, whatever it is. CSSU *has* 'modified HD'
19:47.03zemmyok
19:47.14zemmywhere
19:47.23zemmyhow can I change shortcuts
19:47.25zemmyhave them
19:47.35DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
19:47.35infobot[jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
19:48.16DocScrutinizer05##   OBSOLETE with CSSU, so now commented out #o#   #####
19:48.17DocScrutinizer05# fix annoying hildon-desktop cpu hog bug
19:48.19DocScrutinizer05## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see
19:48.20DocScrutinizer05## http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html
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19:52.54DocScrutinizer05cehteh: eventphone works with a licence, on approved hw
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19:57.44zamn900DocScrutinizer05, I don't find shortcuts
19:57.58zamn900I must install some for it
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20:03.36DocScrutinizer05installing whatever you tried to install will ruin your system, since installing MHD will.  I told you to forget that piece of software whatever it is
20:04.04cehtehDocScrutinizer05: yes but the software is a FOSS stack or?
20:04.20DocScrutinizer05partially yes
20:04.36DocScrutinizer05but on the BTS
20:05.27DocScrutinizer05dialer is also FOSS (well actually it would be nice if it was) and still it's not relevant for the cert status of the phone
20:06.24*** join/#maemo torindel (~torindel@83-144-101-198.static.chello.pl)
20:06.34DocScrutinizer05the cert for the BTS transmitter is a different one than the cert for your phone radio chipset
20:07.27DocScrutinizer05and when you change or modify the phone modem's firmware, the cert is moot and thus the TX is illegal to operate
20:08.06DocScrutinizer05I don't see how osmocom running a local BTS with a temporary licence is related to this topic
20:10.10DocScrutinizer05the modem must get calibrated to comply with the specs required by the network. A BTS doesn't need any calibration since it IS the network
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21:15.30AggeDocScrutinizer05, how come the line-in and irDA is "√" on the minimal neo900 but "X" on the optimal?
21:16.08DocScrutinizer05because I don't even know how to type √
21:16.37DocScrutinizer05iow everything other than "-" and " " means "check"
21:16.51DocScrutinizer05no matter if "x" or "√"
21:17.05Aggeok
21:18.05DocScrutinizer05since a few hours ago some user asked similar question, Nikolaus probably changed all "x" to "√" and missed a few
21:18.55Aggeany thought about how complex NFC you could use in the optimal? would it be Proxmark compatible?
21:19.14AggeI was looking on an old download so it could be fixed alredy
21:20.40Aggenope still in the version online :)
21:30.34DocScrutinizer05NFC is pretty fuzzy specified for Neo900 yet
21:31.10DocScrutinizer05and I have to admit I'm no expert for NFC since I never seen it in real life
21:31.24DocScrutinizer05Germany is basically a NFC-free zone
21:32.10Aggewow. so you don't have any of the stupid public transport rfid card stuff?
21:32.18DocScrutinizer05nope
21:32.41DocScrutinizer05at least I haven't seen any yet
21:34.06Aggenice. we have a system in my city (in Sweden) that is realy stupidly imlimented
21:34.24DocScrutinizer05I tried to make my N9 show some life with any of the access control (key) systems I found at several offices, but it seems this type of NFC is different to what N9 supports. Which also tells about the real problem with NFC:
21:34.31DocScrutinizer05it's not standardized
21:35.19Aggeyeah. in the end it is 2(or 3) frequency standards then the data stuff is a mess.
21:35.24DocScrutinizer05or at least there's no commonly accepted dominating standard yet, rather a half a dozen or more different incompatible ones
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21:36.45Aggeyeah. I am checking but I think I have seen some open hardware/software devices for it that can handele most different implementins
21:37.04DocScrutinizer05so it's more like NFC<=>wireless network   rather than NFC<=>WLAN_802.11
21:38.10DocScrutinizer05to me it's largely unclear WHICH flavor of NFC was usefull to integrate into Neo900
21:38.37Aggeif <=> is more or less. then yeah. and in the end some of the problem is that NFC is just one smal part of RFID
21:39.04DocScrutinizer05<=> is "equivalent (meaning) to"
21:39.23Aggeok
21:39.54DocScrutinizer05well, DFID seems even a sharper more narrow definition than NFC
21:39.58DocScrutinizer05RFID*
21:40.28DocScrutinizer05for RFID there seem to be "only" two or three popular standards
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21:41.59DocScrutinizer05but it seems in other countries there are some RFID systems that support e.g. N9 as wel as other similar mobile devices with "NFC"
21:42.01Aggein my understanding NFC is a broad implementation of RFID. but with the usial everyone desiding that they want to do thear own thing and messing stuff up
21:43.16AggeI had the opertunity to check the NFC on the N9 but on android it exist several apps to read and write RFID/NFC but it is ofthen hit or miss on what app work on what card
21:43.43DocScrutinizer05and even worse it seem that now some credit cards come with NFC so you don't even need to pull them out of your pocket
21:44.49DocScrutinizer05then the next question: what shall your integrated NFC actually do? shall it act like a tag or like a reader?
21:45.07Aggeyeah you can scan them from about 1-2m with simple hardware (50-100with complex) and from the american cridit cards you get all info.
21:45.30Aggereader/emulator is what I would prefer
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21:47.07Aggethis is with schamatics http://www.openpcd.org/OpenPICC_SnifferOnly_13.56MHz
21:48.40Aggeand this is a intresting talk about the security of RFID and prsentation of that one of the creator (A Dutch security researcher) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO6zFpgtLj8
21:49.39Aggethey might even be able to help to design a implementation for the neo900
21:50.17DocScrutinizer05lemme put it this way: for Neo900 we would use a WLAN module that comes with NFC and we support whatever that is in the end
21:52.08Aggeok. would be nice to have that security testing hardware on an mobile device
21:53.28AggeI just remembered your EU passport should have RFID but that is encypted with the passport nr and the expiration date but if you have that you can extract all data from it even the picture and fingerprint
21:54.45merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: don't you have the silly pay via nfc system in a few supermarkets over there?
21:57.12Aggemy dream mobile device would include both 120-150khz, 13.56mhz and 433mhz rfid with full functions
21:58.17merlin1991then you'd copy all your id cards and leave them at home
21:58.26merlin1991untill you suddenly have no batter and are fucked :D
21:58.39merlin1991*battery*
21:58.44Aggemerlin1991, we are just giting that in Sweden. (the banks do commercials about it but i havent seen it irl)
21:58.49Aggegetting*
21:59.20Aggeyeah but you don't need to carry 10+ stupid cards and tags
21:59.34merlin1991my newest credit cards is "nfc enabled", the slogan is "pay up to 25€ without even using your pin"
21:59.53merlin1991yeah sure, nice now every drive by haxx0r in the tram can copy my card and do his shopping for free
22:00.23Aggethe problem is that most 13.56 is encrypted so you need to brake it befor you can emulate it unless you do an active emulation
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22:02.22Aggethey implemented a system like that in one (Indonesian? general area) city that did have cards that you could load with money but it dident check if the card balance was corect when you used it so you could add more money anytime you wanted for free
22:05.51Aggeif they use the same implimentation as the american rfid card they can shop for unlimited amounts online with that information
22:06.51Aggethe talk about the payment system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSYcTl0B7MY it was Taiwan not Indonesia
22:16.23Aggelooks like the german ID cards includes RFID and that some german retailers have begun using RFID
22:23.36DocScrutinizer05Agge: many thanks for that hint! I actually first time made N9 do some NFC - with my passport :-)
22:24.16DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: never seen any such thing yet
22:24.23Aggenice. do it have the decryption programs?
22:24.32DocScrutinizer05nah, emty tag
22:24.35DocScrutinizer05empty
22:24.58M4rtinKI remember people unlocking Angry Birds levels with passports on the N9
22:25.11Aggedid it say writable or read only?
22:25.48Aggeyeah you can often bind finctions to the tag id :)
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22:34.26kolpIt'd be great if you could integrate a tiny microwave in the Neo900 to fry RFID chips in passports, etc >:(
22:34.55Aggewhat would be the max size that could be used for an inductive charging antenna? I have seen devices with antennas that is less then 4*2,5cm
22:35.07Aggeyou might be able to use that kolp ^
22:35.41wmaronekolp: problem there is that usually leaves scorch marks
22:35.54Hurriantoo bad the N9 doesn't do NFC emulation.
22:36.19kolpmin size you mean, Agge? My palm pre's seems to be about 3,5x3,5
22:36.23kolpcm
22:36.33Aggethanks for the idea I need to test if an induction charge pad can fry rfid chips :)
22:36.34Hurrianlots of newer hotels use RFID in that band, you can sniff and replay the UID.
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22:37.12Aggekolp, I was thinking about part 15 in the neo900 feasibility document
22:38.23Aggethe antenna size is probably the same just an other about the same in the end
22:39.41Aggejust an other coiling of the wire*
22:39.59DocScrutinizer05no, it won't. But a piezo spark of a lighter will kill all kinds of chips relatively reliable and without scortching
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23:22.31DocScrutinizer05or you use hard x-ray
23:23.05DocScrutinizer05very effective to erase eeproms/flash
23:23.11kolpFine with me as long as you can build it into the neo900 ;)
23:23.47Aggeor a HERF gun :) http://laserpointerforums.com/f42/emp-herf-marx-generator-49237.html
23:23.51DocScrutinizer05why would you want such a rough tool in a delicate device like Neo900?
23:24.51kolpTrue. I'd be happy with pads to connect the inductive charging coil
23:25.10kolpWhich was part of the original topic, iirc
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23:52.29M4rtinKI remember an X-Ray app in one of the coding competitions :)
23:53.42AggeM4rtinK, you know that you can make hardware changes to some cameras to make them work for infra red?
23:54.01M4rtinKAgge: yep, just dump the infra filter
23:54.16M4rtinKAgge: well, they kinda already see in infrared
23:54.36M4rtinKAgge: the can see the light from infra remotes
23:54.50cehtehbut xray is on the other side of the visible spectrum
23:55.03Aggeyeah but you ofthen need to add a visible light filter (exposed analoge film works)
23:55.25M4rtinKAgge: and at least for the N900 camera, glowing charcoal looks like cryptonite :D
23:55.52M4rtinKAgge: yeah, can be a nice experiment
23:55.55Aggeanalogue film pick up xrays but you need a sorce of xrays to do anyting usefull for it
23:56.05Aggenice have to test that
23:56.23M4rtinKbut IIRC to get a real thermo camera, you need cooling & different ccd ?
23:56.57KenYoungYup, you need mid-IR for that,  not near-IR.
23:57.00M4rtinKbut still, for night vision with an infra flashlight it could be nice :)
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23:57.51Aggeto get higt resulution ir iirc yeah but low res is probibly simpler then regular camera chiops
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