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| 03:24.53 | SAiF | exactly what all things do the proximity sensor do on n900 other than screen lock/off function while calling? |
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| 03:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
| 03:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | but not a precise question, since it's not the sensor doing things, it's things using the sensor. Thus it's not that easy to tell which things are using the sensor since you can't tell from "looking at the sensor" |
| 03:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite a number of apps use the proximity sensor for various purposes, starting at usecase where it's just an additional HID to trigger app-specific actions, by covering it with your finger, to stuff like detecting if device is in a pouch or bag or pocket |
| 03:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if in some apps e.g. speakers are muted when proxy detects possibly your ear next to the speaker |
| 03:43.39 | SAiF | not in apps by dedault? |
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| 03:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | by default? what do you mean by default? |
| 03:51.03 | SAiF | means without any extra apps |
| 03:51.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | the dialer app is known to use the proximity sensor |
| 03:51.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | the sensor itself is just that: a sensor. It can't DO anything |
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| 03:51.59 | SAiF | so only the dialer app uses proximity? |
| 03:52.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | see my initial comment above |
| 03:52.27 | SAiF | as in witthout installing any extra app.. |
| 03:53.41 | SAiF | so the thing is i want to disable it, I dont want the screen to be off while calling. |
| 03:53.55 | SAiF | is there any method to accomplish it |
| 03:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody has done such investigation yet - it's also vastly useless since no device out there has no additional apps installed |
| 03:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, this can't work, since when the screen doesn't get locked, your ear will engage some buttons on the dialer GUI |
| 03:55.35 | SAiF | yeah I know, but still.. |
| 03:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also don't see the rationale behind such behavior modification of dialer |
| 03:56.17 | SAiF | okay.. my sensor is not sensitive. |
| 03:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus I won't waste processor time of my wetware to come up with a possible solution |
| 03:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | specify a valid usecase and maybe we can suggest a better solution |
| 03:57.37 | SAiF | and it sees as if it is covered by something in low light conditions |
| 03:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, you say your sensor is defect? |
| 03:58.58 | SAiF | yes, its not working as it should |
| 04:01.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | check: `` watch --interval=1 cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´ |
| 04:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should say "open" until you cover it with your finger where it immediately and without glitches shall change to "closed" |
| 04:04.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | also check your general system status, with htop |
| 04:05.08 | SAiF | well, that command |
| 04:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | proximity sensor (like other events) known to be late or get lost completely when CPU load is way too high |
| 04:06.04 | SAiF | its always closed. |
| 04:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's bad |
| 04:06.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you have a screen protector? |
| 04:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it cover the prox sensor? |
| 04:06.44 | SAiF | already removed |
| 04:07.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be dust or other debris in the prox sensor aperture |
| 04:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | or the hardware component (the chip) is defect |
| 04:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your problem is: you never see screen during calls? |
| 04:08.50 | SAiF | i have to slide open to see whose calling |
| 04:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see |
| 04:09.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | annoying |
| 04:09.10 | SAiF | yes |
| 04:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | obvious solution: fix prox |
| 04:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | spare flex PCB are available for <10 bucks |
| 04:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a stopgap you could try to deactivate the prox sensor all together |
| 04:10.43 | SAiF | how? |
| 04:10.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to mess with gpio sysnodes to do that |
| 04:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe a bindmount of a static real file over the /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state node could work as well |
| 04:11.17 | SAiF | oops |
| 04:12.20 | SAiF | anything that i can do? |
| 04:12.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth along the line `` echo open >/prox; mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´ |
| 04:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, seems to work, just tested it |
| 04:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | do this, and then you can control the prox "sensor" state with `` echo open >/prox ´´ and `` echo closed >/prox ´´ |
| 04:17.07 | SAiF | do i have to be root? |
| 04:17.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 04:17.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | prox sensor is owned by root, as is sysfs which you try to mess with (mount) |
| 04:18.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even / is writable by root only, for the /prox file |
| 04:18.58 | SAiF | will you see any result in that command. |
| 04:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can change this to your liking |
| 04:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 04:19.11 | SAiF | ok |
| 04:19.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | not if it succeeds |
| 04:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | you however see the difference whe you do `` cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´ |
| 04:20.48 | SAiF | well its now open |
| 04:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it now shall print exactly what you piped to /prox before, no matter if that's "open" or 2closed" or "foobar" |
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| 04:22.01 | SAiF | well, screen doenot go black when calling now. |
| 04:22.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | since dialer is doing exactly same, you now should see dialer act like when sensor is "open" |
| 04:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | (maybe you need to killall dialer, to make it drop any open filehandle that still would read from the original /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state) |
| 04:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, nope, prolly not |
| 04:23.40 | SAiF | its working just like I wanted. |
| 04:24.00 | SAiF | will it revert back if rebooted? |
| 04:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 04:24.21 | SAiF | hmmm.. |
| 04:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to repeat the mount -o bind during boot |
| 04:25.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | GOD I*love* this device!! |
| 04:25.17 | SAiF | where from you know all these things. |
| 04:25.23 | SAiF | you born like this? |
| 04:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | decades of linux |
| 04:25.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically yes ;-) |
| 04:26.18 | SAiF | thanks a lot doc, now I have to hard copy that commands,.. :) |
| 04:26.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 04:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 04:26.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait a minute, i'll help you some more |
| 04:27.19 | SAiF | how? |
| 04:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's/exit 0/mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 04:29.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | warning, no waranties included, it's untested |
| 04:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn sorry, bad "typo" |
| 04:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | warning, no waranties included, it's untestederr nope |
| 04:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | no tiypo |
| 04:31.53 | SAiF | what is that? |
| 04:31.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | do a `` tail /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ after that, and check if the last two lines look like |
| 04:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state |
| 04:32.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | exit 0 |
| 04:32.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a command to edit the rcS sysinit file |
| 04:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | do automatically do this mount command during boot |
| 04:32.58 | SAiF | shoul i start from sed -i? |
| 04:33.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's/exit 0/mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 04:33.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | as root |
| 04:33.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | then |
| 04:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | tail /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 04:33.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and check last 2 lines |
| 04:34.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang!!! |
| 04:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry huge typo :-D |
| 04:34.51 | SAiF | ??? |
| 04:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 04:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | c&p this line to a root terminal on N900 |
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| 04:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 04:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | should do the trick. I hope you won't encounter a bootloop for completely obscure reasons |
| 04:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | messing with rcS file is a tad "dangerous" |
| 04:38.31 | SAiF | bad option i substitution expression |
| 04:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 04:38.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? |
| 04:39.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly busybox again |
| 04:40.23 | SAiF | sed: bad option in substition expression |
| 04:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you didn't copy the `` sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ cmdline |
| 04:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | the first one I posted been incorrect and spits that error |
| 04:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | use |
| 04:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 04:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just tested it, it works |
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| 04:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't run the command more than once! it won't print any "ok" when it succeeds |
| 04:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/c8c39a90b1 |
| 04:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I did a `` cd /etc/init.d ´´ before |
| 04:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | when using `` tail /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ then you don't need to worry about the cd |
| 04:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I nevertheless suggest you fix your hardware |
| 04:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably the proximity sensor chip is dead. Not unheard of |
| 04:50.11 | SAiF0 | it succeeded atlast |
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| 04:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 04:51.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ebay.com/bhp/nokia-n900-flex |
| 04:51.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | get that ans swap |
| 04:51.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and* |
| 04:52.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you see the right one, you can tell from most offers using same picture |
| 04:52.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | cheapest offer <5 bucks |
| 04:52.49 | SAiF0 | I will be using like this for a couple of days. and then I will buy one. |
| 04:52.57 | SAiF0 | it includes camera? |
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| 04:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 04:53.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | front cam |
| 04:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | a real bargain for 4.98USD |
| 04:54.55 | SAiF0 | that one has a fake camera |
| 04:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohh? |
| 04:55.16 | SAiF0 | losing front cam for proximtiy... :) |
| 04:55.45 | SAiF0 | \which one would you choose if you are given such a choice |
| 04:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | how do you know it's fake? |
| 04:56.24 | SAiF0 | its heading is BRAND NEW FAKE CAMERA FLAT FLEX CABLE RIBBON REPLACEMENT FOR NOKIA N900 c57A... the 4.98$ item |
| 04:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | glares at his 2 flex cable spares he got for 7bucks each |
| 04:56.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 04:57.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got me 3 of those: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ribbon-Flex-Cable-with-Camera-for-Nokia-N900-/290704781415 |
| 04:57.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | not tested yet, but look fine |
| 04:58.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | took like 6 weeks for shipping |
| 04:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and came with their antistatic bags packed separately ;-P |
| 04:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | with the flex in antistatic bag they couldn't fold the bags to fit into the package - idiots |
| 05:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | so they opened the bags, removed the cables, and placed the 3 folded bags into the polystyrene box, then bubble foil, then the 3 cables |
| 05:00.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | X-P |
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| 05:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hopes SaiF hasn't completely messed up his rcS with lots of 'mount -o bind foobar' lines that could even throw error and possibly make boot go looping |
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| 06:10.15 | bindi | DocScrutinizer05: scraping knock detection, just gonna do the button thingie |
| 06:10.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 06:10.28 | bindi | DocScrutinizer05: I can react to the headset button being pressed with python right? |
| 06:10.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, should be possible |
| 06:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=21182 |
| 06:16.32 | bindi | cool |
| 06:20.29 | bindi | DocScrutinizer05: 600 mW power er.... handling should be sufficient? |
| 06:20.36 | bindi | for the resistor in parallel with the button |
| 06:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 06:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | P=U^2/R |
| 06:21.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | U=2V max |
| 06:21.28 | bindi | yeah okay |
| 06:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got the circuit right now? switch in parallel to ~1k resistor from 3rd contact of plug to 4th contact (aka sleeve, ground) |
| 06:26.11 | bindi | nah, gonna do shopping later today |
| 06:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, same applies |
| 06:26.21 | bindi | you said 2k resistor earlier |
| 06:26.21 | bindi | :P |
| 06:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly don't know how large the resistor should be |
| 06:26.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | since usually that's a mic |
| 06:26.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, I'll try to probe it |
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| 06:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1..2K is ok |
| 06:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1.4 actually |
| 06:33.01 | bindi | okay |
| 06:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1k should do as well |
| 06:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll try to calculate the correct value based on circuitry in N900 |
| 06:37.22 | bindi | I can probably take a picture (without engaging the flash) and e-mail it as an attachment too? |
| 06:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 06:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | picture of whatß |
| 06:40.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 06:41.53 | bindi | uh, with the camera |
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| 06:42.01 | bindi | the person ringing the doorbell :D |
| 06:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw one of the two schmidt-triggers is built around a 4.7k series resistor to mic, from 2.5V, and the trigger level is |
| 06:42.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 22 |
| 06:42.37 | infobot | 1.909722222222 |
| 06:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | volt |
| 06:43.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure you can take a picture |
| 06:44.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | or - rather simple, the resistor value for triggering that threshold is: |
| 06:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~22 / 6.8 * 4.7 |
| 06:44.46 | infobot | 15.205882352941 |
| 06:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | kR |
| 06:45.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's prolly to detect AV-in connected |
| 06:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | then there's a second schmidt-trigger that is |
| 06:47.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a 220R series resistor for mic |
| 06:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | form an unknown but probably 2V micbias voltage |
| 06:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | (unknown since I'm too lazy to read the tlv320aic34 datasheet) |
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| 06:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the voltage level for that trigger is |
| 06:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 6.8 |
| 06:48.53 | infobot | 0.590277777778 |
| 06:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | given the 220R series this will be ~50R max, and that's probably the max ESR when switch closed |
| 06:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooops, sorry, there's another 2k series in that one |
| 06:52.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so this is basically same as above, just inverted |
| 06:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 6.8 |
| 06:52.45 | infobot | 0.590277777778 |
| 06:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yeah, and |
| 06:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~500R series |
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| 06:58.21 | bindi | uh huh |
| 06:58.27 | bindi | is confused |
| 06:58.38 | bindi | am I still good to go with the 1k ohm resistor or? :D |
| 07:00.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly yes |
| 07:00.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.gsma.com/newsroom/omtp-documents-1-0-omtp-local-connectivity-wired-analogue-audio-v1-0 says >LC-0070<: |
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| 07:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | The electrical characteristics of the audio Terminal of the |
| 07:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Terminal SHALL operate within the values stated below: |
| 07:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Bias Current |
| 07:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | (Voltage of 2.1V generated over microphone component with |
| 07:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | serial pull up resistor value between 1.90 kΩ and 2.2 kΩ) |
| 07:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is pretty weird spec |
| 07:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it gives some hint on ESR of microphone |
| 07:03.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2.1/0.0005 |
| 07:03.54 | infobot | 4200 |
| 07:04.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | minimum R |
| 07:04.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~2.1/0.0001 |
| 07:04.22 | infobot | 21000 |
| 07:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | max R |
| 07:04.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | according to the OMTP specs for headsets |
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| 07:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest you simply test it |
| 07:06.15 | sono | what are you guys fiddling with? |
| 07:06.19 | bindi | add 1k, 1.4k, 2k, 4k resistors to my shopping list? |
| 07:06.57 | bindi | sono: custom button triggering an action on the n900 via headset socket |
| 07:07.13 | sono | ah |
| 07:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | use CA-75U cable. See what resistor it needs on yellow plug to make the device display headset connected indicator |
| 07:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems you would be fine with a 5k |
| 07:08.12 | bindi | hm, that one comes with the n900? i have one somewhere |
| 07:08.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I doubt that applies in real life |
| 07:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd bet a few bucks on 2k just working fine |
| 07:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I just probed a 1400R on a nokia headset, with a good low-voltage digital multimeter |
| 07:13.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus a voltage of significantly < 2V |
| 07:14.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | due to the non-linear characteristics of semiconductors this effective series resistance coukd only get lower on higher voltage, i'd guess |
| 07:15.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end it's probably completely irrelevant if your resistor is 500R or 18kR |
| 07:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | which makes sense since in real life the properties of arbitrary headset mics may vary significantly |
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| 07:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | so as long as 0<< R <<infinite it's a headset |
| 07:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | a closed switch plus cable and plug parasitic series resistance should still be <<100R, and a CA-75U connected to a CVBS-in is either >10k or ==50R |
| 07:19.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll check this in a minute |
| 07:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! 75R, I could have known |
| 07:22.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | this stuff is really puzzling and weird. The general situation as well as the N900 circuitry around it |
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| 07:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your resistance between the two contacts when ring button pushed should be <<75R, and the resistance when button not pressen should be some kR |
| 07:24.12 | bindi | uh |
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| 07:24.28 | bindi | so that button with resistor in parallel isnt going to work or? |
| 07:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will work, definitely |
| 07:25.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a normal switch, a 2kR and when this isn't the right components then I owe you a beer |
| 07:26.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 07:26.20 | bindi | we'll see later today then :P |
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| 07:31.57 | bindi | how feasible would it be to record a video with 30s buffer and save 5 last seconds of the clip and e-mail it when the button is pressed? |
| 07:32.08 | bindi | in case person ringing gets to a blind spot or blocks the camera |
| 07:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw on GPIO_182 aka McSPI2_CS1 aka pin OMAP3430:V3 you got the raw voltage from mic_in, labeled "ECI_AD" which suggests this might be either a serial-in for one-wire ECI (multibutton headsets) or even a A/D converter when you mux the V3 pin to another internal function block |
| 07:32.38 | bindi | always record a video with max. 30s of footage that is |
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| 07:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | should be feasible |
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| 08:41.28 | Apic | A wonderful fine Sweetmorn (UGT)! |
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| 09:15.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | morning |
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| 09:16.50 | Apic | Hi |
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| 09:18.25 | sono | DocScrutinizer05: do we have complete schematics for the n900? |
| 09:18.41 | sono | i still have had too little time to really read up, excuse the easily googled questions |
| 09:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~schematics |
| 09:18.45 | infobot | it has been said that schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic |
| 09:18.48 | sono | woot |
| 09:20.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | that pahe seems kinda garbled and outdated |
| 09:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you find them via google easily though |
| 09:20.47 | sono | nod |
| 09:21.02 | sono | fascinating.. schematics for my phone o.o |
| 09:21.08 | sono | i don't think i ever had that before |
| 09:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/search?q=Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf |
| 09:22.27 | sono | yea. thanks. |
| 09:22.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 09:22.33 | l4m3rx | To login in (wiki.)maemo.org i need account in garage.maremo.org, right? |
| 09:22.36 | sono | stares at mixed tabs and spaces in a .c file |
| 09:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, it's "SSO", yeah |
| 09:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | using tabs is pretty much deprecated in sourcecode |
| 09:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | smart editors can convert tab into spaces, and vice versa |
| 09:24.37 | sono | are you talking to me? |
| 09:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you should set the editor so it inserts 4 spces for each tab you type |
| 09:24.43 | sono | i was just expressing my hatered |
| 09:24.48 | sono | no need to lecture me on fucking tabs |
| 09:24.51 | sono | hatred* |
| 09:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sure |
| 09:25.16 | sono | in fact, |
| 09:25.30 | sono | fires up astyle and prepares the mass commit cannon |
| 09:25.36 | sono | fuck that noise =) |
| 09:25.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 09:28.46 | jaska | tabs are bad.. mixed is .. blyyarghg |
| 09:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | tab space tab space space tab ;-P |
| 09:29.45 | jaska | yeah, i cry blood and run an indenter when i see that |
| 09:29.56 | sono | Unchanged /home/benjamin/src/XLU-Freescale/src/task.c |
| 09:30.01 | sono | "hmm..?" |
| 09:30.06 | sono | benjamin@ubuntu-dev:~/src/XLU-Freescale/src$ file task.c |
| 09:30.06 | sono | task.c: empty |
| 09:30.16 | sono | opens the window |
| 09:30.18 | sono | jumps |
| 09:30.24 | sono | DAT CODE |
| 09:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | great task ! XP |
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| 09:31.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>file task<< >task is empty<< |
| 09:31.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's epic |
| 09:31.42 | sono | there is some epic shit in our repos |
| 09:32.09 | sono | void dosendparameter( std::ostream & ostr, int Parameter, char laenge, char schalter ) |
| 09:32.12 | sono | { |
| 09:32.14 | sono | static char text[20]; |
| 09:32.17 | sono | if ( schalter == true ) |
| 09:32.19 | sono | { |
| 09:32.22 | sono | ostr.put( 0x1B ); //ESC = 0x1B |
| 09:32.24 | sono | ostr.put( 'Z' ); |
| 09:32.27 | sono | ostr.put( 'O' ); |
| 09:32.29 | sono | ostr.put( 'K' ); |
| 09:32.32 | sono | } |
| 09:32.34 | sono | itoa( Parameter, text, 10 );//Wandeln in ASCII |
| 09:32.37 | sono | strrev( text );//Wenden |
| 09:32.39 | sono | if ( Parameter < 0 ) |
| 09:32.41 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 09:32.42 | sono | { |
| 09:32.44 | sono | for ( int x = strlen( text ) - 1;x < laenge - 1;x++ )text[x] = '0'; //Führende Nullen setzen |
| 09:32.47 | sono | if ( laenge > 1 )text[laenge-1] = '-'; |
| 09:32.50 | sono | } |
| 09:32.50 | *** mode/#maemo [+q sono!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:33.18 | *** part/#maemo sono (~sono@xray591.server4you.de) |
| 09:33.26 | *** mode/#maemo [-q sono!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:33.53 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
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| 09:37.57 | sono | sorry, no idea what i was thinking |
| 09:38.06 | sono | i suppose i just had to share the pain |
| 09:38.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | np, just don't do it again please |
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| 09:38.19 | sono | not like i don't know better |
| 09:38.54 | sono | (you have to admit that is probably among the most terrible code you ever saw, tho) |
| 09:39.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, indeed |
| 09:39.06 | sono | (that code *is* alive) |
| 09:39.19 | sono | just not my project (phew) |
| 09:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes me want to have breakfast, so I can throw up a bit |
| 09:39.23 | jaska | ... function names, variables in non-english? |
| 09:39.25 | sono | yea |
| 09:39.41 | sono | jaska: not just that. they're also completely nondescriptive even if you do speak the language |
| 09:39.49 | sono | "schalter" is just "toggle" |
| 09:40.06 | sono | or switch, if you wish. |
| 09:40.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that whole code is a single abomination |
| 09:40.45 | sono | there's hardly a line in that function that is not. |
| 09:40.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | strrev( text ); LOLWUT?!! |
| 09:40.53 | sono | ahha yes. |
| 09:43.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the missing spaces after ) of a condition |
| 09:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | great style |
| 09:45.00 | jaska | but spaces everywhere else almost |
| 09:45.10 | jaska | albeit inconsistently |
| 09:45.30 | sono | the algorithm is the best part |
| 09:45.40 | sono | if you want to call it that |
| 09:46.11 | sono | i'm just glad i don't have to deal with that project =) the guy who does, tho... well he kinda deserves it i guess |
| 09:46.17 | sono | he must |
| 09:46.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | devel must've been on crack |
| 09:46.25 | sono | otherwise it would be cruel, and unusual |
| 09:46.44 | sono | he's long left the company. i am told there were two guys |
| 09:47.14 | sono | both fresh out of a special vocational school (not uni!) where they learned to code from 50 year old teachers that learned to code from a textbook |
| 09:47.22 | sono | they had no mentoring, nothing |
| 09:47.37 | sono | in a way, it is surprising that the project does anything at all |
| 09:47.48 | jaska | that doesnt mean anything, nobody ever mentored me, i never even finished highschool. |
| 09:47.51 | jaska | <.< |
| 09:47.53 | sono | well yes |
| 09:47.56 | sono | same here |
| 09:47.57 | sono | still, ... |
| 09:48.17 | sono | you did not learn how to program in a vocational school |
| 09:48.20 | jaska | i did write some ugly code early on. |
| 09:48.20 | sono | they did. |
| 09:48.25 | sono | certainly |
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| 09:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you either learn coding by studying and understanding good code, or you never learn it |
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| 10:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | highly recommended read: http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/saudi-surveillance/ (semi-OT) |
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| 10:38.38 | l4m3rx | intresting that they didn't FinFisher |
| 10:38.51 | l4m3rx | s/didn't/didn't turn to/ |
| 10:39.48 | Pali | brolin_empey: now looking at kernel-power |
| 10:40.34 | Pali | brolin_empey: I have 4 patches: dm9601, asix, nokia-av and power_supply_sysfs |
| 10:41.31 | Pali | dm9601 and asix only adding new usb ids... this will not break/change anything existing (only adding support for new hw) |
| 10:41.47 | Pali | so somebody with that hw will need to check if work |
| 10:41.54 | Pali | for me that two patches are ok |
| 10:42.25 | Pali | next power_supply_sysfs patch which fixing dangling if statement |
| 10:43.45 | Pali | and patch for nokia-av adding new (better) support for headset button. it reports headset button event immediately, but sometimes not correctly - so it report event as KEY_PROG1 (to not break any app which does not listen for that key) |
| 10:44.03 | Pali | only this last patch needs more testing, all others are ok |
| 10:44.33 | Pali | brolin_empey: I do not remember which patch is from you, so look at list ^^^ if there is that yours |
| 10:45.27 | Pali | I will add info about testing new kernel packages to TMO kp52 thread |
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| 10:59.18 | brolin_empey | Pali: Thank you. The dm9601 and asix patches are mine; I made and submitted them because I need them in order to use some models of USB ↔ Ethernet adapters I have without having to use a hexadecimal editor with the binary .ko files to manually replace the numeric identifiers of a model of adapter I do not have with the numeric identifiers of a model of adapter I do have. |
| 11:00.03 | Pali | rigth, so you will test if that working with your HW |
| 11:03.07 | brolin_empey | Pali: Yes, I will test and report after installing the kp52. |
| 11:06.50 | Pali | brolin_empey: now updating my phone to new version from git |
| 11:07.16 | Pali | after some tests (in next minutes) I will publish deb packages for testing |
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| 11:22.34 | Pali | new kp for testing is here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1381948#post1381948 |
| 11:22.36 | Pali | brolin_empey ^^^^ |
| 11:22.53 | Pali | freemangordon ^^^^ |
| 11:29.53 | jon_y | Pali: how much slack space does your uboot still have for the kernel? |
| 11:31.09 | Pali | jon_y: max kernel size is 1832960 |
| 11:31.20 | Pali | and max uboot size is 262144 |
| 11:32.04 | Pali | (if you mean combined uboot+kernel image in n900 nand) |
| 11:32.11 | jon_y | ok |
| 11:32.42 | jon_y | also, I notice sometimes kp starts with console |
| 11:32.46 | jon_y | other times without |
| 11:33.13 | jon_y | not sure if I messed with the kernel by adding the console |
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| 11:56.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O what a gibberish!! a:3:{i:0;s:11:"programming";i:1;s:17:"test_et_bugreport";i:2;s:9:"ui_design";} |
| 11:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | lools almost like dbus parameters |
| 11:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks, even |
| 11:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | however it's most probably PHP, or some weird stuff midgard invented |
| 11:58.17 | sono | o.o looks like an unholy union between awk and c64 basic |
| 11:59.21 | Apic | ;-) |
| 11:59.21 | Apic | Ack. |
| 11:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's my "interests" as in http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/ , as seen in administrative interface |
| 11:59.45 | dos1 | it looks like something php devs could come up with, yes, but i know a bit of php and never seen there any format like that |
| 12:00.27 | jaska | looks sorta like bittorrent dht protocol.. distantly |
| 12:00.36 | jaska | like, strings are s:length:"foobar" |
| 12:02.09 | sono | it could not be some sort of json? |
| 12:02.18 | sono | actually, yes. |
| 12:02.26 | dos1 | that's for sure not a valid json |
| 12:02.27 | sono | i haven't done web stuff lately, but |
| 12:02.35 | sono | well, not valid.. |
| 12:02.42 | sono | well, i have no idea.. |
| 12:03.36 | dos1 | and the only thing it shares with json are there three characters {}: |
| 12:03.57 | dos1 | these* |
| 12:04.13 | dos1 | some custom internal format i guess |
| 12:04.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so let's face it: it's MIDGARD ;-P |
| 12:05.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | net.nehmer.account |
| 12:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi dos1 :-) |
| 12:06.06 | dos1 | hello! |
| 12:06.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | back to proper PC? |
| 12:06.31 | dos1 | yup |
| 12:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think THE page needs some improvements that cpuld predate THE announcement ;-) |
| 12:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | could* |
| 12:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to answer your question (7weeks?), see last post in |
| 12:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 12:08.22 | inz | DocScrutinizer05, it is php |
| 12:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, it IS? |
| 12:08.33 | inz | DocScrutinizer05, same format as php uses for storing session ata |
| 12:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:08.56 | dos1 | oh |
| 12:09.03 | inz | see http://php.net/manual/en/function.serialize.php |
| 12:09.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | thabks for the pointer, luckily I don't need to learn about it, just ran into it on midgard, while checking progress of karma updating |
| 12:10.08 | sono | what, that is a serialization format? |
| 12:10.28 | sono | bloody hell |
| 12:10.43 | dos1 | sono: that is php serialization format - adding "php" before it changes everything :D |
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| 12:10.53 | sono | i suppose so |
| 12:11.37 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: some list of short bullet points about what could be added/changed on the website would be helpful |
| 12:11.39 | sono | looks like they were trying to make something like json, misnamed it serialization, and then went ahead and just built something |
| 12:12.15 | dos1 | sono: php learned how to deal with json in its standard library quite recently |
| 12:12.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: I think we can set up a sneaky wiki page, in some dark corner |
| 12:12.26 | dos1 | :nod: |
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| 12:13.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now main concern is clear emphasis on distinction between the hw device and any OS that will not ship with it |
| 12:15.08 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: btw. I've just recieved second gta02, so my concerns about distinction between daily and devel devices regarding gta02/gta04 aren't valid anymore :) |
| 12:15.31 | dos1 | hmm, will adding "Shipped OS" row in comparition table be enough for now? |
| 12:15.52 | jaska | they were apeing bencode format i guess |
| 12:17.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we should mention that GolDeliCo is NOT developing the OS for the device. And while we gonna ship the device with errr one of the OS that Nikolaus mentioned, it's basically up to the user to find and install the OS of his choice. Then point to FPTF |
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| 12:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: F5! |
| 12:39.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: (then point to FPTF) It's very important that customers understand that the device doesn't ship with fremantle, but that there OTOH is a community project that already takes care about porting fremantle |
| 12:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and fremantle been ported before to other devices |
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| 13:27.00 | Tekk_ | there any way to select twxt in the browser for copying? changing your keymap has the fun circular dependency |
| 13:27.44 | Tekk_ | where to have the characters to edit your keymap you must first edit your keymap to have such characters :P |
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| 13:51.09 | wnd | Tekk_, I'm not sure if you're after this, buy if you swipe the stylus from left of the screen to right (that is, start from outside the screen, swipe to right), you should be presented a button. clicking that should allow you to select text, after which you can use the menu or keyboard shortcut to copy it to clipboard. |
| 13:52.31 | Tekk_ | thanks, I'll look at that |
| 13:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~gestures |
| 13:54.13 | infobot | ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/projects/xstroke/release-0.1/alphabet.ps |
| 13:54.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, no |
| 13:54.54 | l4m3rx | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_shortcuts_and_gestures |
| 13:55.00 | l4m3rx | :p |
| 13:57.39 | l4m3rx | btw DocScrutinizer05, maybe a stupid Q , but what do the both 'browserd' processes do? (I mean there's few of them.... 2 with few forks) |
| 13:59.51 | l4m3rx | scratch that .... |
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| 14:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | really? |
| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | browserd does a lot of jobs: conversations, iirc call history, whatnot else |
| 14:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | even ovi-map afaik |
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| 14:58.16 | l4m3rx | okay .. another Q.... witch is more linux kernel behavior relayed ... does chnice effect the swap IO? |
| 14:58.34 | l4m3rx | of a process |
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| 15:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | chnice? |
| 15:09.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | my manpages don't know chnice |
| 15:09.25 | brolin_empey | Pali: How do I install kp52 with the files from http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/kp52+git/ ? |
| 15:09.52 | Pali | install deb packages |
| 15:11.16 | brolin_empey | Pali: All 4 packages? |
| 15:11.28 | Pali | depends on what you need |
| 15:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: man ionice |
| 15:13.46 | brolin_empey | Pali: Can I install only the kernel-power-modules package? |
| 15:14.18 | Pali | if you want to flash kernel into nand you need kernel-power kernel-power-modules and kernel-power-flasher |
| 15:14.32 | Pali | if you want to boot it from uboot you need also kernel-power-bootimg |
| 15:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: though kernel isn't controlled by nice or ionice |
| 15:14.58 | Pali | kernel version is kp52+git |
| 15:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | kswapd seems to run at "top prio" |
| 15:15.22 | Pali | and kernel zimage and modules version must match |
| 15:16.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/also// |
| 15:16.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/also/instead/ |
| 15:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably don't want to install kp to kernel partition, just to replace it with uBoot some minutes later |
| 15:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so aiui for uboot, kernel-power-bootimg and kernel-power-modules should suffice |
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| 15:19.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | pending confirmation by pali |
| 15:19.39 | Pali | no, kernel-power-flasher is needed too for dependences |
| 15:19.57 | Pali | uboot and kernel-power-flasher depends on fiasco-image-update-ask |
| 15:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe some unfortunate dependencies in installation procedure make kernel-power and *-flasher mandatory even with uBoot |
| 15:20.14 | Pali | and that package cause that you will be asked if you want to flash something into nand |
| 15:20.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | been too slow |
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| 15:21.21 | l4m3rx | l4m3rx my bad, i ment ionice , witch is like chnice but not for IO |
| 15:22.24 | l4m3rx | And the Q here is if you change the IO prio of a process , will that affect the swapping IO of him (the process) |
| 15:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | chnice: unknown |
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| 15:23.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and answer as of above: afaik kswapd doesn't care about any ionice or other prio of the process "owning" the pages to swap |
| 15:23.38 | l4m3rx | so - no :/ |
| 15:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | kswapd is a kernel process and runs with kernel prio and scheduling |
| 15:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why system comes to a grinding halt when swap hell hits |
| 15:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | all disclaimer: AFAIK |
| 15:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no expert here |
| 15:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK might know details |
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| 15:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but when a process has lower prio then it stays in sleep longer before it gets scheduled (gets a time slot). But once it got a timeslot is has same prio as any other process that tries to run, and kernel tries to provide the resources to allow it running, incl any swapped out pages |
| 15:30.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I seem to recall that all processes ahve a real live prio and a niceness. The real live prio increases the longer the process stays in sleep |
| 15:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | once the real prio of a process is high enough, it will get next timeslice, and it doesn't make sense to preempt it just because some pages need to get swapped to make it run |
| 15:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe other lower prio processes can run while the process waits for pages swapping in, but once that io-wait finished, the process again is highest prio and again claims cpu |
| 15:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and kswapd will not swap out or abot swap in of pages that just been requested for swap in |
| 15:33.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | that would lead to a total deadlock of whole system |
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| 15:41.45 | SAiF | DocScrutinizer05.. |
| 15:44.22 | SAiF | after a couple of reboots, I noticed that something weird is going on, cpumem applet shows high cpu and memory usage, |
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| 15:45.28 | SAiF | and now it wont allow me to open anything, says "too many applications open, unable to open additional apps without closing some." |
| 15:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek |
| 15:47.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck? |
| 15:48.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should immediately restore original state of /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:49.00 | SAiF | i dont know whats wrong.. sometimes I am not able to even open up xterminal |
| 15:49.46 | SAiF | pls tell me how to restore.. original state. |
| 15:49.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got mc installed? |
| 15:50.08 | SAiF | what? |
| 15:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | or what#s your fav editor on xterm? |
| 15:50.37 | SAiF | currently nothing.. |
| 15:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then type following line into xterm |
| 15:51.21 | SAiF | wait, icant open xterm now. its showing the same error as above |
| 15:51.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's@.*/prox.*@@' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:52.03 | SAiF | well the phone menu works, thats all. |
| 15:52.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot and immediately open xterm |
| 15:52.15 | SAiF | pls wait |
| 15:52.33 | SAiF | rebooting |
| 15:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you also might try to umount /prox |
| 15:53.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | both needs to get done as root |
| 15:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe this hack I suggested has unexpected side effects |
| 15:54.24 | SAiF | okay.. in xterm now |
| 15:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/maybe/obviously/. |
| 15:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sudo gainroot |
| 15:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | umount /prox |
| 15:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | sed -i 's@.*/prox.*@@' /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:56.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | after those three lines your system should stop acting up |
| 15:56.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | check system status with command |
| 15:56.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | top |
| 15:56.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | then |
| 15:57.24 | SAiF | cannot umount , device or resource busy |
| 15:57.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch for a lot of similar processes, tell me what they look like |
| 15:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | continue with sed command |
| 15:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | then check output of |
| 15:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | tail -n 4 /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it shouldn't have any " mount " lines anymore |
| 15:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's ok, reboot again |
| 16:00.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but before you reboot, please check output of top command |
| 16:00.10 | SAiF | no mount lines.. just exit 0 |
| 16:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | excellent |
| 16:00.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | top |
| 16:00.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | (to stop top, you press "q") |
| 16:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably see a lot of similar looking processes in top |
| 16:01.33 | SAiF | 1, cpu 72.4 --force syslog |
| 16:01.54 | SAiF | 2, cpu 23.8 hald-addon gpio |
| 16:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks weird |
| 16:02.30 | SAiF | these two are the top cpu usage ones |
| 16:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | there must be a command name before "--force syslog" |
| 16:03.02 | SAiF | yes /sbin/mce --force-syslog |
| 16:03.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm interested in a lot of similar looking processes |
| 16:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, mce blowing chunks |
| 16:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn |
| 16:04.12 | SAiF | there is no other /sbin/mce others are /usr/bin with less than 10% cpu usage |
| 16:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for unknown reasons hald-addon-gpio doesn't like the bindmount on prox sensor |
| 16:04.33 | SAiF | exept top and hald-addon-gpio |
| 16:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | cpu usage is irrelevant, you said the error message been "too many apps started" or sth like that |
| 16:05.35 | SAiF | yes.. and some times. it said some thing like (cannot continue due to low memory) |
| 16:05.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | which means there seems to be too many concurrent processes, which are like 999 or sth, on maemo |
| 16:06.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | low memory is another issue, but that is also not related directly to cpu usage |
| 16:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can sort by memory usage in top |
| 16:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | press "F" |
| 16:06.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | press "n" |
| 16:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | press enter |
| 16:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | what does top say under "Tasks: 152 total," what's is your number? |
| 16:08.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | (top second row) |
| 16:09.10 | SAiF | its sortecant find |
| 16:09.16 | SAiF | cant find |
| 16:09.20 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 16:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 16:10.08 | SAiF | there is no where saying tasks : xx total |
| 16:10.24 | SAiF | wait press f, n enter ??? |
| 16:10.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | top, the 2nd row from top |
| 16:11.04 | l4m3rx | 2nd row is load avreage: 1.00 1.00 1.00 2/210 2510 ? (or smthng like that?) |
| 16:11.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | F, not f |
| 16:11.19 | SAiF | oops |
| 16:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/d612e0a3a3 |
| 16:13.34 | SAiF | well, there is only mem and cpu above the list.. |
| 16:13.44 | SAiF | what am i doing wrong |
| 16:13.54 | SAiF | sorting doesnt really work |
| 16:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | too large font? |
| 16:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | use volume rocker to get smaller font |
| 16:15.02 | SAiF | nope, not the font. its not there |
| 16:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird |
| 16:15.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I can't help much |
| 16:16.17 | SAiF | hmm.. |
| 16:16.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and btw with f, n, enter you probably disabled display of MEM% col |
| 16:17.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | doing same again will re-enable it |
| 16:17.22 | SAiF | no, memory % colum is still there.. |
| 16:17.46 | SAiF | it sorts by cpu% |
| 16:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can change this to %MEM by pressing F,n, enter |
| 16:19.29 | SAiF | it was never sorted by mem usage, |
| 16:20.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | pressing F should show a list of fields, with chars to select ome of them |
| 16:20.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | one* |
| 16:20.27 | SAiF | F n enter sorts cpu usage in descenting order |
| 16:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | have you looked at the screen after pressing F ? |
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| 16:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/c0b11788a8 |
| 16:21.51 | SAiF | nope nope nothing like that... |
| 16:23.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what's going on with your shell or top |
| 16:23.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it even update at all? |
| 16:23.58 | SAiF | ?? |
| 16:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. does the values change? |
| 16:24.39 | SAiF | yes when i press F screen just refreshes |
| 16:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 16:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | press Q, reboot |
| 16:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out of ideas |
| 16:25.24 | SAiF | rebooting. |
| 16:25.34 | *** join/#maemo shaggycat (~shaggycat@178.217.27.70) |
| 16:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 16:27.27 | SAiF | still top doesnt respond to F |
| 16:27.31 | SAiF | but.. |
| 16:28.19 | SAiF | cpu 7.2% mem 60kk free |
| 16:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | OHDAMN! busybox top |
| 16:28.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart busybox |
| 16:28.54 | infobot | hits busybox with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha |
| 16:28.59 | SAiF | wait.. it just raised.. and now falled down |
| 16:29.13 | SAiF | cpu% |
| 16:29.29 | SAiF | raised again.. trackerd..? |
| 16:29.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, irrelevant range |
| 16:30.16 | SAiF | no sbin/mce in top 50 haha |
| 16:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be tracker indeed |
| 16:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I gave a poor advice. It obviously isn't helpful |
| 16:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems hald-addon-gpio blows chunks with that bindmount on proximity/state |
| 16:32.07 | SAiF | well i found sbin/mce in somewhere 5th or 6th position from top |
| 16:32.27 | SAiF | but total cpu% is 7% |
| 16:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry, everything back to normal |
| 16:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl dialer misbehaviour |
| 16:32.54 | SAiF | sbin/mce gone now |
| 16:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | to properly clean up you may delete that file |
| 16:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm /prox |
| 16:34.52 | SAiF | sorry but where was prox located? I am dumb |
| 16:35.07 | SAiF | sorry to ask |
| 16:35.12 | SAiF | dumb again |
| 16:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm /prox |
| 16:35.23 | SAiF | ^^ got it |
| 16:36.06 | SAiF | so i suppose if i use it without the automatic configure at startup, it would be fine..? right? |
| 16:37.29 | SAiF | thanks a lot doc.. you saved a reflash. |
| 16:41.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm really wondering what happens when you do the `` mount -o bind ´´ late after boot |
| 16:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | either it acts upp exactly like it did now, or it will magically work since maemo-dialer and hald-addon-gpio are weird and inconsistent design |
| 16:42.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: I almost *caused* a reflash |
| 16:42.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 16:42.41 | SAiF | :) |
| 16:42.55 | SAiF | you saved a couple earlier.. |
| 16:43.10 | SAiF | so i still owe you a couple of reflashes . :-) |
| 16:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to experiment further with the original interactive cmdline I gave you. It will revert to normal anyway, as soon as you reboot device |
| 16:45.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo open >/prox; mount -o bind /prox /sys/...blablabla |
| 16:45.46 | sono | dunno what top you got (htop?) but top has not #tasks |
| 16:47.16 | SAiF | ^^ doc |
| 16:47.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | my top is the REAL top, not any messybox crap |
| 16:47.32 | sono | =# |
| 16:47.42 | sono | gtop then |
| 16:47.49 | sono | on normal maemo |
| 16:47.50 | *** join/#maemo shaggycat (~shaggycat@vpnbox1-2.corp.hostcomm.ru) |
| 16:47.58 | sono | if installed |
| 16:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, if you wanna call it that way, it will obey ;-) |
| 16:49.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/etc/init.d# ls -l `which top` |
| 16:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 80976 2009-11-16 16:02 /usr/bin/top |
| 16:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/etc/init.d# top --version |
| 16:49.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.43 | sono | so i gather you have coreutils without the silly prefix |
| 16:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | procps, which nukes my mp-community-pr |
| 16:50.15 | sono | ok |
| 16:50.28 | sono | ... so much work so little time |
| 16:50.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recommend htop |
| 16:50.45 | sono | at least you guys all went the way before |
| 16:51.36 | sono | is on the bus enjoying his phone =) |
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| 17:01.44 | SAiF | bye good night (UGT), time to go home. |
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| 17:18.36 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; kswapd swaps out, apps mostly swap in themselves |
| 17:18.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 17:19.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's an app going to swap in autonomously? |
| 17:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's the app going to know where to in swap the swapped-out pages got moved? |
| 17:20.33 | ShadowJK | "themselves" in quotes perhaps. Page fault happens when app's memory is missing, kernel schedules swapin |
| 17:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 17:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought that's what kswapd is doing |
| 17:21.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | page fault, exception, kernel, scheduling a swap task in kswapd queue ? |
| 17:22.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, never looked into that |
| 17:22.13 | ShadowJK | From kernel's point of view, the swapin is accounted as done by app, and all swapouts accounted as done by kswapd |
| 17:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 17:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting |
| 17:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the swap-in is basically scheduled as a normal (mmap) IO? |
| 17:23.11 | ShadowJK | iirc |
| 17:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | in app context |
| 17:23.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes sense |
| 17:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so swap-in is also susceptible to ionice? |
| 17:24.15 | ShadowJK | there's little distinction made in a high level sense between disk cache, executable code, libraries and "anonymous memory" |
| 17:24.42 | ShadowJK | No idea, but in practice it's hard to make ionice work for mapped stuff, I think.. |
| 17:25.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting. Thanks for sharing |
| 17:25.15 | ShadowJK | Also, the tweaks prioritizing executable/library memory over disk cache was added later than 2.6.28, iirc |
| 17:25.54 | ShadowJK | In any case, swapout hurts us significantly more than swapin |
| 17:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's for sure |
| 17:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | since damn swap-out is a write to a media that's exceptionally slow on write, compared to read |
| 17:29.12 | ShadowJK | yep |
| 17:29.37 | ShadowJK | in my experience, lowering page-cluster after things start swapping heavily helps |
| 17:30.14 | ShadowJK | As it'll preread in 16k or something instead of full 128k |
| 17:32.33 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Given that flash pages are 128k, how is it going to help? |
| 17:32.54 | RST38h | One way or another it will still have to switch a full page in |
| 17:35.22 | ShadowJK | Not entirely |
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| 17:36.35 | ShadowJK | erase units are bigger than 128k, but you can read them in pages of 4k on the emmc, and the latency hit in switching to another "128k" on read is insignificant enough |
| 17:39.37 | ShadowJK | While a whole "128k" has to be erased for writing, once erased you can also write it 4k at a time :-) |
| 17:39.54 | ShadowJK | But the emmc's ability to keep track of partially written things is extremely limiteed. |
| 17:40.09 | ShadowJK | Most kingston stuff, for example, can keep track of 1. :-) |
| 17:40.40 | ShadowJK | So as soon as you venture outside your current 128k block, the next time you come back it's full erase-modify-write again. |
| 17:41.17 | ShadowJK | Better stuff is able to track 8-12 open erase blocks |
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| 17:43.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I suppose it will clean out pages whenever it can, but pretty soon there's no "empty" pages left over. As long as there's an empty page the controlled can read-modfy-write_elswhere without prior page erase |
| 17:44.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in fact it's the erase that takes ages, while writing to a erased page is comparably fast |
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| 17:45.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus an optimized API would allow to mark blocks as empty |
| 17:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | some controllers try to deduce this from interpreting the fs, by looking at the FAT |
| 17:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus they could erase unused pages async |
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| 17:49.22 | dos1 | trim? |
| 17:49.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if I had to design the controller, I'd use virging pages to do a readA-modify-writeB-eraseA cycle, instead of a readA-modify-eraseA-writeA |
| 17:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, trim goes this direction |
| 17:51.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway a mkfs tends to spam the whole device with inodes, so no virgin pages left over |
| 17:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | except maybe for the hidden spare pages if the card has any |
| 17:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could test that with two virgin cards, creating a 100% partition on one and a 90% partition on the other, then compare performance |
| 17:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the more free empty pages the card has, the longer the burst you can write before deferred page-erase kicks in and needs to finish clearing a page for the next chunk to write |
| 17:57.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think equally spread inodes across the whole storage range are the worst thing you can do to a flash storage |
| 17:59.47 | ShadowJK | I'm not so sure the SD protocol lends itself to the device doing background cleaning :/ |
| 18:00.26 | ShadowJK | New kernels and new SD cards (or emmc), and with driver support, there's actually a trim available |
| 18:00.30 | dos1 | "The MultiMediaCard and SD ERASE (CMD38) command provides similar functionality to the ATA TRIM command, although it requires that erased blocks be overwritten with either zeroes or ones. eMMC 4.5 further defines a "discard" sub-operation that more closely matches ATA TRIM in that the contents of discarded blocks can be considered indeterminate (i.e., "don't care")." |
| 18:00.54 | dos1 | via wiki |
| 18:01.12 | ShadowJK | But whether cards actually do anything useful with it is unknown. Full device trim runs so fast on the card I've got in my raspberry pi, I suspect it's a no-op on the card :-) |
| 18:02.02 | ShadowJK | Oh the a-data card in my N800 actually shows improved performance after dd of zeroes :-) |
| 18:03.37 | ShadowJK | But after a full erase, it slows down far sooner than writing its capacity |
| 18:03.51 | ShadowJK | at 10% mark or so.. |
| 18:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: (so fast) or deferred |
| 18:05.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: thanks |
| 18:05.50 | ShadowJK | Well the bestest best cards now allegedly run a SLC mode log-structured cache, to help making FAT update faster on their new fancy 12 megabyte blocksize TLC nand |
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| 18:08.12 | ecc3g | there should be an option on MLC/TLC cards to run in SLC mode at the cost of halving or 1/3 the memory... I wonder how long the card would last in such a mode... |
| 18:09.04 | ecc3g | or I should say "slc" mode - using each cell for one bit instead of 2 or 3. |
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| 18:12.03 | ShadowJK | I have a (fullsize) SD card SLC 16GB. |
| 18:12.09 | ShadowJK | It's not that great |
| 18:12.31 | ShadowJK | Would be more worthwhile spending silicon on improving the FTL |
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| 18:14.29 | Sysaxed | Hey guys, my phone was shut down most likely because watchdog tried to reboot it, now I cannot boot it at all. When I press power button I can see NOKIA logo on the white screen but then nothing happens |
| 18:15.07 | Sysaxed | I even had some boot menu installed, but even if I open my keyboard it wont get to it |
| 18:15.20 | Sysaxed | simply turns off after showing nokia logo |
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| 18:32.20 | Sysaxed | anybody? :) |
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| 18:33.13 | ShadowJK | No idea, other than that bootloader throws up the logo |
| 18:33.25 | ShadowJK | so it's not proceeding from that |
| 18:33.58 | ShadowJK | So.. storage died, it thinks battery is dead, os is missing, other fault? |
| 18:35.53 | Sysaxed | could it be that it has no free space? |
| 18:36.24 | Sysaxed | battery is not dead for sure |
| 18:36.42 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-173-77.as13285.net) |
| 18:38.20 | Sysaxed | if I plug in my USB cable then it shows the logo, turns off backlight, then reboots and does it again and again |
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| 18:41.30 | Sysaxed | I've tried taking out sd card but that doesn't seem to change anything |
| 18:41.49 | Sysaxed | so... reflashing is the only way? |
| 18:43.04 | SAiF | give 10 min without battery and try again? |
| 18:44.50 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-173-77.as13285.net) |
| 18:45.23 | Sysaxed | that's actually a good idea, but I'm afraid that my device doesn't need whole 10 minutes |
| 18:45.55 | Sysaxed | even 10 seconds without the battery will result in a date reset |
| 18:46.09 | Sysaxed | but I will try it, thanks |
| 18:46.36 | Sysaxed | is there anything that I can use to debug current situationL |
| 18:46.37 | Sysaxed | ? |
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| 18:53.54 | ShadowJK | I'm wondering if flasher could upload a kernel+initram without flashing it, and boot that for some sort of minimalist debugos |
| 18:54.09 | ShadowJK | dunno if such an image exists though.. |
| 18:54.20 | ShadowJK | Never really looked up this rescueos thing or how it works |
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| 19:00.32 | Sysaxed | no, battery trick did not work |
| 19:00.43 | Sysaxed | :( |
| 19:00.51 | Sysaxed | noooooo |
| 19:01.07 | Sysaxed | well, at least my files are backed up |
| 19:01.31 | Sysaxed | but still, bootmenu gave me false feeling that I'm safe even if something bad happens |
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| 19:18.04 | Fay | hello all |
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| 19:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's called rescueOS |
| 19:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueOS |
| 19:30.15 | infobot | well, rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ |
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| 19:30.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: ^^^ |
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| 19:37.51 | Sysaxed | ehh |
| 19:38.05 | Sysaxed | I wish there were more DocScrutinizers in the world |
| 19:38.18 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: do you have any kids? :) |
| 19:40.47 | Sysaxed | if yes - good job! :) |
| 19:45.23 | Sysaxed | please excuse my momentary oblivion |
| 19:54.57 | Sysaxed | haha |
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| 19:55.21 | Sysaxed | "to disable this message type 'stfu'" |
| 19:55.55 | Sysaxed | so |
| 19:56.13 | Sysaxed | I get Attention: Charge the battery bla-bla Current: 0% |
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| 19:56.51 | Sysaxed | does it mean that something is wrong with the battery? |
| 19:57.27 | ShadowJK | Does it mention a voltage? Otherwise the charge meter could've been reset when you had the battery out |
| 19:57.45 | Sysaxed | nope |
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| 19:59.21 | Sysaxed | umm, now when rescueos is running, what can I try? |
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| 20:02.43 | Sysaxed | for example, how can I check the free space? |
| 20:04.47 | Sysaxed | uhhhmm |
| 20:05.30 | Sysaxed | /rescueOS/umount-maemo-root.sh says umount: can't umount /mnt/maemo: Invalid argument |
| 20:05.59 | Sysaxed | Couldn't unmount. Most likely your fault. Are you in /mnt/maemo ? |
| 20:06.09 | Sysaxed | ah shit |
| 20:06.13 | Sysaxed | I'm dumb |
| 20:06.23 | Sysaxed | got it working, thanks |
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| 20:11.29 | Sysaxed | holy shit |
| 20:11.42 | Sysaxed | now it booted up correctly |
| 20:11.49 | Sysaxed | how could this happen |
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| 20:18.29 | Sysaxed | Well, I cannot believe it, but seems like simply booting rescue os fixed the problem |
| 20:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: I'm scared by the idea there could be more grumpy old men just like me |
| 20:23.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I consider defect battery a plausible cause of your problems |
| 20:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: I'm doing my share to help extinct mankind - so no, no kids here |
| 20:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/extinct/exterminate/ |
| 20:28.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe NIN101 has kids - would be the way better elternative to me getting scared by my alter egos |
| 20:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternative even |
| 20:30.44 | Pali | for testers: pre release version of kp53: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1381948#post1381948 |
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| 20:31.57 | NIN101 | me? Better not :-). |
| 20:33.00 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: noooooooo :( are you kidding me |
| 20:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | just thought about a world with 95% of human beings being an exact clone of DocScrutinizer05. :-o A terrible place to be, for ~218 minutes. Then maybe evolution gets a second chance after the slaughter |
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| 22:00.10 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: Then 95% of the human population would be male. |
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| 22:08.46 | sono | brolin_empey: not after the cleansing. |
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