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| 00:34.58 | em | Hello everyone |
| 00:35.02 | em | is anyone here? |
| 00:43.37 | psycho_oreos | no |
| 00:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ask |
| 00:44.43 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 00:46.27 | psycho_oreos | Looks like I've been beat. :) |
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| 01:18.53 | woddy | hello people |
| 01:18.57 | woddy | !seen pupnik |
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| 01:19.12 | woddy | ~seen pupnik |
| 01:19.13 | infobot | pupnik <PugVader@p54B29D69.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 739d 1h 28m 27s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. |
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| 07:56.06 | DrCode | hi all |
| 07:56.18 | DrCode | how can I check what maemo ver I have |
| 07:56.20 | DrCode | ? |
| 07:56.39 | DrCode | how can I had ext-test , ext-dev from app manager or console? |
| 07:59.10 | psycho_oreos | Maemo version: Settings > About product (If you have CSSU the version can be checked via About Community SSU). No idea what you meant by ext-test, ext-dev. |
| 07:59.25 | psycho_oreos | ~seen estel |
| 07:59.27 | infobot | i haven't seen 'estel', psycho_oreos |
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| 08:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | extras-test extras-devel but what's "how can I had"? |
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| 08:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen estel_ |
| 08:11.16 | infobot | estel_ <~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 136d 10h 50m 16s ago, saying: 'sixwheeledbeast, thanks it is it. Pali, thanks, this source works too, I wasn't able to find it (it's hidden ins earch engines more than soviet guerilla in US)'. |
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| 08:15.50 | psycho_oreos | Thanks DocScrutinizer05, I bet he meant "how can I add". |
| 08:16.04 | psycho_oreos | In any case the info is clearly printed on the wiki for those two repositories. |
| 08:18.45 | psycho_oreos | I was looking at this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 For quite sometime I've just been lurking on it and seeing it's progress unfolding. Seems like a few prototype cases are now out for it. |
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| 08:20.21 | psycho_oreos | o.O welcome back. Did you get my responses? |
| 08:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2 lines |
| 08:20.49 | psycho_oreos | Ahh. |
| 08:20.55 | psycho_oreos | I was looking at this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 For quite sometime I've just been lurking on it and seeing it's progress unfolding. Seems like a few prototype cases are now out for it. |
| 08:21.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohh |
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| 08:23.48 | psycho_oreos | contemplates on probably start asking estel_ directly (through forum) on how he plans to add those connectors for RF, but otherwise the project does look very intriguing. |
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| 08:26.22 | psycho_oreos | Also whilst trying to look for a donate button to estel_, I've just stumbled upon this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91535 No doubt you probably won't be interested in this (I wouldn't hold much hopes either considering right now it's only a prototype work). Though it may intrigue me more if it properly materialises as a proper add-on. |
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| 08:28.55 | cityLights | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody "invited" me yet |
| 08:29.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 08:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I generally hate fairs |
| 08:29.43 | cityLights | is anyone still using pulse audio ? |
| 08:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, no good reason yet to even ponder |
| 08:29.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? lol |
| 08:29.57 | cityLights | seems the updates there stopped |
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| 08:30.16 | psycho_oreos | For maemo? or in general (for pulseaudio). |
| 08:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Poettering got us all on this evil drug, now he's killing us with not delivering anymore? |
| 08:30.37 | cityLights | for maemo |
| 08:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | good |
| 08:31.16 | psycho_oreos | Heh, I guess it's probably a sign of declining interests (maybe) on old product. |
| 08:31.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | cityLights: I never thought maemo polypaudio could get any updates, due to obsolete ABI and the closed blobs |
| 08:32.11 | psycho_oreos | I too personally loathe pulseaudio I don't even setup my linux boxens with pulseaudio. Though because maemo has pulseaudio by default and forces one to use pulseaudio, I guess I'm forced to keep tabs on pulseaudio in that regard. |
| 08:32.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard nevertheless that pali (or FMG) did some PA update for CSSU :-o |
| 08:33.06 | psycho_oreos | Yeah they did, a few patches and a minor issue which was later resolved. |
| 08:33.23 | cityLights | I was promissed to be able to play musing from maemo to the home stereo over upnp |
| 08:33.29 | cityLights | never so how... |
| 08:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never wrapped my mind around it, just thought I'd prefer to not have it on my device |
| 08:33.37 | Pali | I will try to fix PA network support and that famous CSSU pa bug... |
| 08:33.47 | psycho_oreos | I think I managed to do it once via ushare (linux). |
| 08:33.49 | Pali | But now I do not have here maemo env... |
| 08:33.55 | Pali | you need to wait... |
| 08:34.45 | Pali | PA has good network support, but some fucking Nokia developer decided to change PA api |
| 08:34.54 | psycho_oreos | o.O another CSSU pa bug? not aware of that one. Though the previous one (in regards to ringtones being reverted back to default nokia tone) I thought was fixed. You basically removed backwards compatibility which worked perfectly (imo). |
| 08:35.11 | Pali | so it is compatible only with PA in n900 |
| 08:35.27 | Pali | cssu bug is about that ringtones... |
| 08:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: that doesn't sound like any PA bug |
| 08:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | PA is not involved in selecting ringtone |
| 08:36.06 | Pali | there is bug :-) |
| 08:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | only in playback of whatever is in ~user/$.ringtonecache |
| 08:36.22 | psycho_oreos | The same bug :/ pretty sure I've mentioned that it worked in my case. I sort of doubted the bug would reappear. At least not when I tried ringing my device numerous times. |
| 08:36.23 | Pali | for some reasons after updating PA ringtone not working |
| 08:36.31 | Pali | and only on some n900s |
| 08:36.53 | Pali | and I was not able to reproduce it, but lot of TMO users yes |
| 08:37.04 | Pali | we bisected which change broking it |
| 08:37.06 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, yeah it is a bug. I mean it seems to be fixed by removing compatibility (in my case it did). |
| 08:37.22 | Pali | but is is not a fix... |
| 08:37.34 | Pali | and is not in cssu repo or git |
| 08:37.59 | psycho_oreos | Which is interesting, because after v5 with compatibility removed it worked flawlessly in my case. |
| 08:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | touching PA seems a poor idea |
| 08:38.17 | Pali | it should be fixed correctly, not adding another nokia hacks |
| 08:38.47 | Pali | PA is fully backward compatible on network |
| 08:39.16 | Pali | but Nokia introduced something to network protocol which broke all network support |
| 08:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 08:39.44 | psycho_oreos | A few owners on tmo were asking what was with PA and their ringtones/alarm defaulting to that old standard nokia ringtone. |
| 08:40.09 | psycho_oreos | Even if it wasn't PA's fault, there was I guess something that broke it. |
| 08:40.10 | Pali | what we can do is to announce that our PA is older version on network |
| 08:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems pretty unrelated |
| 08:40.20 | Pali | and do not use funny nokia hacks |
| 08:41.04 | jonwil | if it wasn't for pulseaudio-nokia this whole pulseaudio mess would go away... |
| 08:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | "funny nokia hacks" are stuff like echo cancellation and audio enhancement and xprot |
| 08:41.31 | Pali | no |
| 08:41.57 | Pali | funny nokia *network* hacks are only chaning PA API on network |
| 08:42.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and aiui we can't touch PA without breaking ABI compatibility for those plugins |
| 08:42.22 | Pali | we can touch network part via TCP |
| 08:42.36 | Pali | because this is not used on maemo |
| 08:42.57 | Pali | maemo apps using only connection via named unix socket |
| 08:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 08:43.13 | Pali | and tcp/udp network server is not started by default |
| 08:43.20 | jonwil | yeah the answer then is to undo Nokia's proprietary modifications to the network protocols and go back to stock Pulseaudio networking :) |
| 08:43.23 | Pali | so it is really not used |
| 08:43.53 | Pali | jonwil: not easy, because tcp/udp and socket connections shares code |
| 08:43.58 | Pali | source code |
| 08:44.20 | Pali | I already did that and it broke something (e.g. no ringtones) |
| 08:44.32 | jonwil | ok |
| 08:44.51 | jonwil | Any idea what the pasr package is for? |
| 08:45.07 | Pali | I need to add if(using_tcp) downgrade_protocol(); else use_nokia_code(); |
| 08:45.14 | Pali | pasr? |
| 08:45.19 | Pali | do not remember |
| 08:45.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I feel reluctant to get PA touched on my daily phone when considering that audio is a CORE function of phones |
| 08:45.30 | Pali | it has something with pulseaudio |
| 08:45.56 | Pali | docscrutinizer05: but for cssu-devel it is ok |
| 08:46.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | for cssu-devel everything's OK |
| 08:46.13 | Pali | here we can test what it broke or if it working... |
| 08:46.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU-devel basically is meant to provide all the bugs that we don't want to see anywhere else, so devels can tackle them |
| 08:47.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so cssu-devel is actually what you NEVER want to use as normal user |
| 08:47.58 | psycho_oreos | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1351048&postcount=1251 <--- that was probably close to the beginning of people reporting issues with default nokia ringtones and it being a possible bug in PA. |
| 08:48.30 | psycho_oreos | Although I think some users had to enable CSSU-Devel to get updated ca-certificates or something once. |
| 08:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get it how PA could possibly change ringtone |
| 08:50.00 | Pali | I think I have one idea: |
| 08:50.33 | Pali | default ringtone has format which is playable by everything also without nokia PA modules |
| 08:51.11 | Pali | user selected ringtone has format which cause that nokia pa module will redirect sound to module itself and process it |
| 08:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui PA plays files from /home/user/.local/share/sounds/*.wav for ringtone. No way it CHANGES those |
| 08:51.30 | psycho_oreos | In other words we could all try to convert and use the same format as that default nokia ringtone? |
| 08:51.43 | Pali | and when nokia module not working (because of broken api) it tell that file is not playable |
| 08:51.58 | Pali | and ringtone daemon switch to default |
| 08:52.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's NO other format than .wav supposed to be in /home/user/.local/share/sounds |
| 08:52.36 | Pali | and we know that there are some nokia music pa modules... |
| 08:53.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW your ringtone ALWAYS is a *.wav |
| 08:53.26 | Pali | I think problem is in nokia modules which cause that some files are processed via module and some not |
| 08:53.38 | psycho_oreos | Well no I meant that for affected users/owners to convert their currently used ringtone (not sure how it would work with people whom have multiple ringtones for various contacts or grouped contacts) into .wav format so that way there would be no issues with converting, etc. |
| 08:53.47 | Pali | and it could depends on format or other statictis on file... |
| 08:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: "select ringtone" already does this converting |
| 08:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it always did |
| 08:54.35 | Pali | and if default ringtone is working it means that somehow nokia pa modules are not used |
| 08:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls -l /home/user/.local/share/sounds |
| 08:54.48 | Pali | I do not have other idea |
| 08:55.40 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, true but there's almost always delays with conversion on the go and maybe it may have somehow messed with PA or whatever forcing "select ringtone" to go default nokia tune. |
| 08:56.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck "on the go"?? |
| 08:56.13 | Pali | or problem can be that profiled daemon (which playing sounds) has some very bad PA api usage and when is not started against compiled PA version it will not work |
| 08:56.38 | Pali | can somebody try to compile PA, install it in scratchbox and then compile profiled? |
| 08:56.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole idea is that convertion to .wav is done when you *select* ringtone, not when you *play* it |
| 08:56.45 | Pali | and install both to maemo: |
| 08:56.48 | Pali | ? |
| 08:57.13 | psycho_oreos | Unless if the user selects the ringtone, the "select ringtone" would have already converted one's personal choice of ringtone into .wav format thereby eliminating the need to convert that selected music or whatever as a ringtone when there's an incoming call. |
| 08:57.22 | Pali | with this we can chech if problem is really in PA or in profiled |
| 08:57.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | please first wrap your head around how ringtone playback works before messing with PA |
| 08:57.33 | psycho_oreos | Ahh. |
| 08:57.52 | Pali | ringtone is played byt profiled |
| 08:58.21 | Pali | maybe by canberra library? |
| 08:58.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: that's exactly how it works |
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| 08:59.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you "select as ringtone" any $sounfile.ext, then the very same moment maemo converts it to /home/user/.local/share/sounds/${soundfile.ext}.wav |
| 09:00.02 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, I wasn't sure. When my N900 has been kept on for sometime and there's an incoming call with personalised ringtone. There would be a delay after the screen starts to show there's an incoming call, and usually the vibrator (which I have enabled) would always buzz first. |
| 09:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | personalized ringtones not supported by stock maemo |
| 09:00.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | barisione took care about that by doing some magic for swapping files in /home/user/.local/share/sounds |
| 09:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | very risky stuff |
| 09:01.40 | psycho_oreos | Although right now I don't think my N900 would be suffering from the same issue with defaulting to stock ringtone. It used to but not anymore, I've done quite a thorough testing when PA v5 with no compatibility was out. It constantly played my selected ringtone. |
| 09:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | since those changes need to get reverted *always*, even when your call gets aborted hard by battery-low system shutdown |
| 09:02.06 | psycho_oreos | Sorry I meant personalised ringtones as for whenever there's an incoming call regardless of whom it's from. |
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| 09:03.03 | psycho_oreos | Hmm. |
| 09:04.01 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs*. If it's not an issue with PA, then I guess it's now somehow a "magic" fix? :) |
| 09:05.00 | psycho_oreos | Like I said, in my case when I tried using PA v5 with no compatibility, the issues that I had prior to the PA v5 with no compatibility seems to have vanished. I was using the exact same ringtone as before. |
| 09:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see *any* way how PA could decide to not play /home/user/.local/share/sounds/daf-der_mussolini.mp3.wav but rather /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav |
| 09:06.25 | psycho_oreos | Pali have sort of briefly discussed that above, but the information that was mentioned is somewhat beyond my knowledge. |
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| 09:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB both are in ~user/ aka /home/ ! |
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| 09:08.13 | Pali | see what I wrote |
| 09:08.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | but PA has NFC about either of both files, PA doesn't know what's /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav |
| 09:09.15 | Pali | profiled try to play sound file A via PA, but PA decide to use nokia module for processing |
| 09:09.26 | Pali | loading nokia module failed |
| 09:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see what you wrote and I don't see how that makes PA revert to default ringtone |
| 09:09.37 | Pali | and playing file A failed |
| 09:09.47 | Pali | then profiled try to play default file |
| 09:09.59 | Pali | and PA decide to not use nokia processing module |
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| 09:10.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's what profiled probably does |
| 09:10.04 | Pali | and this will work... |
| 09:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | PA doesn't decide *anything* |
| 09:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no "nokia processing module" |
| 09:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's probably just a hard compiled-in default in profiled (if that's actually the system that plays ringtone) to /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav, a file that's supposed to be ALWAYS there |
| 09:12.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so if PA fails to playback whatever profiled asks PA to playback, profiled asks PA to playback /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav instead |
| 09:13.39 | Pali | there is nokia PA music module |
| 09:13.54 | Pali | which doing some processing on music files |
| 09:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | but generally profiled NEVER should ask PA to play any ringtone that's not in /home/user/.local/share/sounds/*.WAV |
| 09:14.06 | Pali | yes |
| 09:14.20 | Pali | but we do not know when that music hook is called |
| 09:14.27 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@78-32-229-233.static.enta.net) |
| 09:14.27 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 09:14.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 09:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your /home/ partition is not mounted or whatever, then ringtone playback will probably fail, or fallback to some emergency tome playback of some file form rootfs |
| 09:16.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/tome/tone/ |
| 09:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that emergency fallback ringtone, if existing at all, is Nokia Tune for sure |
| 09:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# locate NokiaTune |
| 09:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | /home/user/.local/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac.wav |
| 09:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac |
| 09:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | in this case PA _might_ actially "decide" to playback an .aac ringtone |
| 09:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually* |
| 09:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | since PA picks plugins according to filetype of source |
| 09:20.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | for .aac this may fail |
| 09:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | for ringtones |
| 09:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | if somebody messed up PA config, regarding placement of plugins for example. Figue: /home not mounted -> /opt not mounted -> PA aAC plugin not available |
| 09:21.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | only if some fool decided to optify PA plugins |
| 09:22.19 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 09:24.31 | *** join/#maemo qwazix (~qwazix@Maemo/community/council/qwazix) |
| 09:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | however the decision to playback /usr/share/sounds/NokiaTune.aac is done by profiled |
| 09:24.54 | psycho_oreos | I'm grabbing Maemo Ubuntu Lucid Desktop virtual SDK image but I've noticed there was an issue. Who maintains: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com ? |
| 09:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the decision to fail on doing this is done ba PA when it can't access AAC plugin |
| 09:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: basically me |
| 09:26.45 | Pali | in that SDK image is bug!!!! |
| 09:26.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | what issue? |
| 09:26.57 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z <-- that seems to give me corrupted content error. |
| 09:27.06 | Pali | it cause that all deb packages are compiled with thumb2 |
| 09:27.25 | Pali | look at ML archive how to fix that before using scratchbox sdk!!! |
| 09:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: DAMN! :-S |
| 09:27.35 | psycho_oreos | Oh yeah I'm running Firefox 24.0 |
| 09:27.48 | psycho_oreos | Oh crap :/ |
| 09:28.03 | Pali | fix is simple... |
| 09:28.15 | psycho_oreos | now hunts in ML archive. |
| 09:28.27 | psycho_oreos | Thanks for the heads up! |
| 09:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: Pali: "we" didn't touch that image since ~3 years |
| 09:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so any problems or content corruption are either legacy or transient |
| 09:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a problem at your end |
| 09:30.07 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, yeah I'm well aware the image would be ancient. Though I had an issue trying to download that file, though on skeiron.org it works. |
| 09:30.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | on skeiron it doesn't have that IMEI protection |
| 09:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no CDS |
| 09:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | the akamai servers sometimes have corrupted cache |
| 09:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | some of them |
| 09:31.27 | psycho_oreos | Well yeah that too, but besides that. :) (in fact IMEI was easily circumvented with the available photos of N900 scattered on the web). |
| 09:31.39 | psycho_oreos | Hmm yeah that reminds me.. grrr |
| 09:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | some browsers blow chunks with "content disposition" |
| 09:31.49 | psycho_oreos | ~lart akamai servers |
| 09:31.49 | infobot | whips out a shotgun, trudges over to akamai servers, and goes postal |
| 09:32.22 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e250:3801:76de:2bff:fe08:7809) |
| 09:32.54 | psycho_oreos | I'm gonna grab it from skeiron for now, looking into that thumb2 errata. There's two bugfixes I guess which may need to be compiled along with any packages to be made with scratchbox VM |
| 09:33.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems recent firefox again introduced that "protection" that causes download of stuff from akamai to fail with "double content disposition" or whatever |
| 09:34.32 | *** join/#maemo Jo2006 (~jo@p5DC0DC99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:34.44 | psycho_oreos | I recall having to run through that entire process with you awhile ago. Simply using specified akamai's mirror (via DNS or whatever it was) it worked. I'm not going to bother fixing that up for getting just one file. lol |
| 09:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok |
| 09:35.27 | psycho_oreos | I'll need to also keep a mental note of that, bloody akamai servers. |
| 09:35.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you however please do a `host -a tablets-dev.nokia.com`|pastebinit ? |
| 09:36.05 | *** join/#maemo Elleo (~Elleo@libre.fm/hacker/elleo) |
| 09:36.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops |
| 09:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | host tablets-dev.nokia.com | pastebinit |
| 09:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/ac5fba1ace |
| 09:38.53 | psycho_oreos | http://sprunge.us/jiUR |
| 09:39.05 | psycho_oreos | I did host -a, oh well. |
| 09:39.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | please without -a |
| 09:39.36 | psycho_oreos | http://sprunge.us/UNRi |
| 09:40.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 09:40.50 | psycho_oreos | No worries. I bet that was the same host that caused the exact same issue but with another file or whatever last time round. |
| 09:41.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 09:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody is servicing those akamai servers anymore |
| 09:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | they are "orphaned" |
| 09:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually they will all end like wirelessmodemapi.com |
| 09:42.00 | psycho_oreos | *shakes head* The irony is that someone still has to pay for those services. |
| 09:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | *nod* |
| 09:43.06 | psycho_oreos | Host wirelessmodemapi.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) <--- I guess that site is dead now. |
| 09:43.43 | psycho_oreos | .. or maybe still running but not using that domain name.. just only in IP form. |
| 09:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | the DNS is dead now, the IP/box still 'online' but zombified |
| 09:43.58 | psycho_oreos | Hah! |
| 09:44.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly |
| 09:44.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 'somebody' still paying for it |
| 09:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite it has no DNS anymore, and not answering to connects |
| 09:45.14 | psycho_oreos | It'll also be interesting to see akamai will work based on IP addresses. There's no way to view the site in "file mode" and it works transparently. |
| 09:45.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | since that 'somebody' now sits in Redmond aiui, I don't really care at all |
| 09:46.00 | psycho_oreos | *nod* in either case one can search up through wayback machine to see what the site was like I suppose. |
| 09:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas it was a site with logon |
| 09:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | so wayback engine only displays the logon screen |
| 09:46.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anything at all |
| 09:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and dang that registartion process been a PITA, done manually by some Nokia dude or whatever |
| 09:47.54 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* If there was some sort of banner available I guess one could dig in deeper to see what the site is about. |
| 09:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | took several days |
| 09:48.15 | psycho_oreos | Registration process? for DNS ownership transferrals? |
| 09:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | the site had a fileserver sharing the ISI specs |
| 09:48.31 | psycho_oreos | Ahh. |
| 09:48.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, like "login username: login password:" |
| 09:49.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda similar to the IMEI protection on tabletsdev, just more individual to the user account |
| 09:49.51 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 09:49.55 | psycho_oreos | http://archive.is/5zQgz <--- google to the rescue!. Though yeah I can see that it was once nokia stuff. |
| 09:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, useless, see right side |
| 09:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Saved from http://web.archive.org/web/20091207015440/http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ LOL |
| 09:51.49 | psycho_oreos | At least the link was far shorter, heh. http://foolab.org/node/7888 |
| 09:51.58 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre__@wikimedia/aklapper) |
| 09:52.11 | psycho_oreos | I guess all the ISI related stuff maybe MohammadAG has a copy. :x |
| 09:55.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is not moh |
| 09:55.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is another mohammad |
| 09:56.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have _some_ of the stuff copied |
| 09:56.22 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@78-32-229-233.static.enta.net) |
| 09:56.22 | *** join/#maemo lbt_away (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 09:56.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if I ever managed to get _all_ the stuff |
| 09:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | all the available versions |
| 09:57.13 | psycho_oreos | Oh :d my bad. I thought it might have been him heh. |
| 09:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik mag never looked into ISI |
| 09:57.52 | *** join/#maemo tzafrir (~tzafrir@50-194-236-81-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 09:58.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: did you ever look into ISI? :-) |
| 09:58.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: your last link is a nice find anyway |
| 09:59.50 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* Somehow I thought it might have been him because of the name (well yes I could be blamed for being naive because Mohammad is a common name in Arabic land), then the locality (Egypt) and then stuff about Arabic language which I happen to see mag did some photos or screenshots of Arabic input on N900 iinm. |
| 10:00.10 | psycho_oreos | Hehe cheers. :) I guess it's the power of google-fu. ;) |
| 10:01.19 | psycho_oreos | Ahh shite.. I see where I've went wrong. |
| 10:01.28 | psycho_oreos | *facepalms and laughs at self* |
| 10:01.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/search?q=mohammadag :-) |
| 10:02.28 | woddy | ~seen pupnik |
| 10:02.31 | infobot | pupnik <PugVader@p54B29D69.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 739d 10h 11m 45s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. |
| 10:02.36 | jonwil | I have Wireless Modem API G1 V2 10w49.zip, Wireless Modem API G2 V1 10w49.zip, Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip and Wireless Modem API G2 V3 11w25.zip |
| 10:02.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | woddy: this not going to change, eh? |
| 10:02.50 | jonwil | but those are too recent to be of value for the N900 :( |
| 10:02.55 | woddy | DocScrutinizer05: haha I know |
| 10:03.02 | woddy | :/ |
| 10:03.12 | woddy | DocScrutinizer05: you know what happened to hi |
| 10:03.13 | woddy | m |
| 10:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, he asked for a ban |
| 10:03.32 | woddy | ? oO |
| 10:03.35 | MohammadAG | MohammadAG, no, I haven't tbh :P |
| 10:03.42 | psycho_oreos | mag = Mohammad Abu Guyyev (hopefully I didn't get his name wrong). It was obvious that it suddenly dawned on me. His handle would obviously be based on his real name. bah! |
| 10:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno about his health, he had some severe problems |
| 10:03.59 | MohammadAG | Garbeyyeh :P |
| 10:04.08 | psycho_oreos | Sorry :( |
| 10:04.27 | MohammadAG | You're excused, no one except us arabs gets it right :P |
| 10:04.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi moh! :-) |
| 10:04.57 | MohammadAG | You should see Israelis say it, they kind of gurgle with weird words till I say it :p |
| 10:05.03 | MohammadAG | hey DocScrutinizer05 :D |
| 10:05.03 | psycho_oreos | Though it would somewhat be offensive I suppose in certain cultures if you misspelt a person's name. |
| 10:05.37 | MohammadAG | why, I for one wouldn't expect a person who doesn't know the language of my name to spell it right |
| 10:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | way more problematic is the gender issue, nobody gets it right |
| 10:06.25 | MohammadAG | Yeah |
| 10:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one have NFC about northern names and the associated gender |
| 10:06.39 | psycho_oreos | I was about to cheat by seeing if I could find the exact name through your submitted patches or something. :) a-la-copy-and-pasta. heh, I guess I decided to type it out and hope it was right (which was wrong). :/ |
| 10:06.42 | MohammadAG | some names go for both genders too |
| 10:07.17 | MohammadAG | petition to change NFC to NFI so as not to confuse with Near Field Communication |
| 10:07.55 | psycho_oreos | Heh a common three letter acronym I guess is up in arms. |
| 10:08.21 | jonwil | If anyone has any wirelessmodem docs other than the 4 I already have, please speak up :) |
| 10:08.37 | jonwil | although I doubt anyone has any |
| 10:08.59 | psycho_oreos | That other Mohammad guy may have it I suppose. I personally have none. |
| 10:09.33 | psycho_oreos | Also.. another person here said that he has some. :> |
| 10:11.10 | Pali | jonwil: I have something in notebook :-) |
| 10:12.33 | jonwil | what do you have? :) |
| 10:14.10 | MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, the one associated with the linux ML? |
| 10:14.42 | psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, I have no clue lol, I just stumbled upon a person's blog whom I mistaken that person as you. |
| 10:15.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://archive.is/5zQgz |
| 10:15.33 | psycho_oreos | http://foolab.org/ <-- fyi it was that. |
| 10:15.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 10:15.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 10:15.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://foolab.org/node/7888 |
| 10:16.02 | psycho_oreos | Ahh yeah that specifically. |
| 10:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: how's life? |
| 10:18.08 | jonwil | cool, that guy has a reverse-engineered header file for libomap3camd (N9xx camera blob for MeeGo/Mer/etc) |
| 10:18.38 | *** part/#maemo woddy (~woddy@ip-178-200-54-41.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 10:22.36 | jonwil | I doubt anyone outside Nokiua has the wilressmodemapi documents that will help for the N900 :( |
| 10:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: MickeyL used those available on wirelessmodemapi plus the ophono stuff to implement fsogsmd |
| 10:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ofono* |
| 10:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ofono always got all the sekrit info from Nokia they needed |
| 10:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | which kinda *****SUUUUCKS****** |
| 10:26.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | same with meego which even got sourcecode in a week we didn't get for maemo after 4 years of asking "PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE!" |
| 10:26.55 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@78-32-229-233.static.enta.net) |
| 10:26.55 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 10:27.31 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@78-32-229-233.static.enta.net) |
| 10:27.31 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 10:27.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then Nokia wondered why several very productive people felt pissed and turned back at Nokia |
| 10:28.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | self destruction at its finest |
| 10:29.22 | Pali | jonwil: do not know |
| 10:30.16 | Pali | docscrutinizer05: you tried to get bme sources... did you ever looked into bme? |
| 10:30.47 | *** join/#maemo gyutyuglf (gyutyuglf@86.126.58.151) |
| 10:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, we analyzed what it does, via strace etc. I never had a look at the sources, but stskeeps did and he told me I definitely don't want to look at those sources, they are toxic |
| 10:32.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then again, he got those sources, at a time when he wasn't Nokia employee iinm |
| 10:32.21 | jonwil | neither ofono nor fsogsmd have anything for a number of the interesting ISI calls (some of the SIM calls for example) |
| 10:33.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | err ofono supposed to have a comprehensive working set of ISI calls to make BB5 behave |
| 10:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | same for fsogsmd |
| 10:33.32 | jonwil | I think these are functions not required for working device but which the Fremantle stuff uses |
| 10:33.39 | jonwil | i.e. ofono doesn't need these calls |
| 10:33.48 | jonwil | but Fremantle does |
| 10:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck is fremantle using that is not needed? |
| 10:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | except GPS |
| 10:34.46 | jonwil | well one of the things is the underlying ISI message that handles com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info |
| 10:34.59 | jonwil | Fremantle uses it |
| 10:35.04 | jonwil | but ofono and fsogsmd dont |
| 10:35.44 | jonwil | Thats just the one I can think of off the top of my head |
| 10:35.50 | Pali | docscrutinizer05: did somebody decoded what info bme storing into CAL? |
| 10:36.07 | Pali | and is there info what all and how is stored in CAL? |
| 10:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | not afaik |
| 10:36.29 | Pali | jonwil: you already decoded some parts of data in CAL... |
| 10:36.42 | Pali | ... do you have some documentation? |
| 10:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme storing BS to CAL |
| 10:36.44 | jonwil | I didn't decode BME in CAL no |
| 10:37.03 | Pali | not only BME... but any other parts? |
| 10:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info most likely just gets info about SMS MX |
| 10:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | from SIM |
| 10:37.51 | jonwil | nope |
| 10:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | what does wireshark say? |
| 10:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know there are wireshark ISI dissectors for phonet? |
| 10:39.04 | jonwil | I can see the value returned by com.nokia.phone.sim.get_service_provider_info (and by the underlying packet) but there is no info on what the numbers actually mean |
| 10:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | in wireshark? |
| 10:39.35 | jonwil | no, via dbus-send or dbus-monitor |
| 10:39.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm yeah |
| 10:39.52 | Pali | there are more wireshard isi plugins... |
| 10:40.05 | Pali | can you save link of last version to infobot? |
| 10:40.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even know last version |
| 10:40.33 | Pali | or at least one working version :-) |
| 10:40.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | mompls |
| 10:41.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1027338#post1027338 here you are, that's my most recent info |
| 10:42.37 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~textual@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 10:42.48 | jonwil | so yeah there are isi calls the stock Nokia setup is making that are not covered or documented by any of the wirelessmodemapi documents I have or by ofono or fsogsmd |
| 10:44.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 10:45.11 | *** join/#maemo _MyStartx_ (~MyStartx@86.126.58.151) |
| 10:45.25 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549AAAF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:46.53 | jonwil | As for CAL, what I know about it is covered by http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2012-July/028923.html and http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2012-August/028926.html |
| 10:48.47 | troulouliou_dev | hi what is the original size of the rootfs partition on maemo ? |
| 10:49.03 | troulouliou_dev | on n900 i mean |
| 10:51.13 | psycho_oreos | 228M |
| 10:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hard to tell since it's ubifs which is compressing, so depending on tool you ask to tell you size, you can get quite different sizes |
| 10:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the physical size is around what psycho_oreos said |
| 10:53.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for spam |
| 10:53.45 | psycho_oreos | I sort of don't see why there's a need to know that. iinm rootfs sits on one chip. |
| 10:53.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /proc/mtd |
| 10:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dev: size erasesize name |
| 10:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd0: 00020000 00020000 "bootloader" |
| 10:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" |
| 10:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd2: 00040000 00020000 "log" |
| 10:53.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd3: 00200000 00020000 "kernel" |
| 10:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd4: 00200000 00020000 "initfs" |
| 10:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | mtd5: 0fb40000 00020000 "rootfs" |
| 10:54.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, you don't need to know this |
| 10:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually |
| 10:54.57 | psycho_oreos | wonders if someone borked their setup hence needing that sort of info. |
| 10:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | df and du are showing larger numbers |
| 10:55.13 | troulouliou_dev | psycho_oreos, i ve got an issue booting my N900; i jsut remember that like 2 years ago when i was using the phone i made tons of symlink from / /lib ... to spare some place in this partition |
| 10:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 10:55.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 10:55.42 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 10:55.56 | psycho_oreos | I was about to say that lol. optification ftw. |
| 10:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not exactly trivial to determine which libs are needed during early boot where eMMC aka /home aka /opt isn't available yet |
| 10:57.08 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 10:57.49 | troulouliou_dev | DocScrutinizer05, yeah thats it i moved some files from nand to emmc then with flasher-3.5 ... remember now :) |
| 10:57.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g when you optify some PA plugins (me looking at Pali) then the shaking hands video during boot will load a PA that breaks since it doesn't find the needed plugins. This can't autocure and needs a PA restart when /opt is finally available |
| 10:57.59 | psycho_oreos | I'd never touch /lib. There's things like /lib/firmware which contains firmwares for various devices onboard N900. Shifting that /lib to some other place where kernel cannot access can result in some pretty nasty effects. |
| 10:58.42 | *** join/#maemo _MyStartx_ (~MyStartx@86.126.58.151) |
| 10:59.33 | troulouliou_dev | pretty sure i foloow a guide on the forum; andthis happens only with uboot/backupmenu .. maybe somekind of timeout around needed libs and mounting emmc |
| 10:59.42 | troulouliou_dev | (space key issue sorry) |
| 10:59.51 | psycho_oreos | Oh yeah not to mention /lib/modules/`uname -r` : Loads of drivers sit in there (ahem kernel modules). |
| 10:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't even think about doing "optification" aka moving stuff from NAND to eMMC when you don't know *exactly* what you're doing. You definitely will mess up your system |
| 11:01.02 | troulouliou_dev | DocScrutinizer05, yeah i got the exact issue when switching from original PR1.3 to pwnieexpress and now when "evolving" from pwnieexpress to cssu |
| 11:01.16 | troulouliou_dev | pretty sure the thing in common is backupmenu |
| 11:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 11:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | this whole topic is pretty much unrelated to backupmenu |
| 11:02.04 | troulouliou_dev | goot 30Meg free in rootfs will check later by mouting with flasher whee i can free space |
| 11:02.10 | troulouliou_dev | ok thanks |
| 11:02.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu is a patchset on top of maemo PR1.3, NOT on top of anything else |
| 11:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it definitely won't work on top of e.g. pwnie |
| 11:03.08 | psycho_oreos | I'd consider reflash and start from scratch, building up to CSSU. I'd never install CSSU on the rootfs of the actual maemo setup. In fact I have had a maemo chroot environment made for pwnie-express setup. |
| 11:03.37 | psycho_oreos | err sorry I meant pwnie-express to maemo base. |
| 11:05.03 | psycho_oreos | The other huge problem is that pwnie express I'm sure is largely unmaintained for N900. |
| 11:05.10 | troulouliou_dev | yeah in worst case scenario will do that (lack free time atm). tanks guys and sorry for disturbing i was not using really this phone since some times now |
| 11:06.03 | troulouliou_dev | psycho_oreos, pwnie express is just PR1.3 with additional sec softwares added out of any repos/apt |
| 11:06.05 | troulouliou_dev | iirc |
| 11:06.39 | troulouliou_dev | they just copy them to /opt/pentest or somewhere else and added some desktop icons for hildon |
| 11:06.52 | psycho_oreos | troulouliou_dev, yes of course at the time. I think they also had their own wl12xx injection drivers, etc. Though the bottom line is that CSSU updates are far newer and replaces far more stuff than pwnie express. |
| 11:07.39 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* been awhile since I last heard of pwnie express let alone it's setup process. At any given rate I wouldn't have installed on the rootfs of my maemo setup. |
| 11:07.40 | troulouliou_dev | psycho_oreos, yes i removed the pinning they set on "their" kernel and upgraded to the cssu one |
| 11:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, somebody sending a mail to council with header "Dear MohammadAG" |
| 11:08.59 | psycho_oreos | They probably thought MohammadAG was working for the council. ;) |
| 11:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | "suggestions" for CSSU |
| 11:10.36 | troulouliou_dev | i also noticed a little bug in cssu but it was maybe there earlier, when i m using blutooth in my car to listen music from mediabox and maybe others softwares, the N900 do not send anything when the wifi bleedingedge driver is in use |
| 11:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | which are actually complaints about kbd keysize in portrait mode, and a invalid complaint about icon arrangement in portrait |
| 11:10.57 | troulouliou_dev | need to switch to stock wifi or better shut downwifi |
| 11:11.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, BT not working with bleeding edge WLAN drivers, that would be a rather funny bug report |
| 11:12.05 | psycho_oreos | troulouliou_dev, from hardware perspective, wireless and bluetooth shares the same frequency (roughly) as well on N900 virtually the same antenna. It wouldn't be a surprise if bleeding edge driver was in use whilst one uses the bluetooth. |
| 11:12.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | might actually be possible that coexistence in WLAN suppresses BT indefinitely |
| 11:12.34 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, I own the council |
| 11:12.38 | MohammadAG | no one knows that |
| 11:12.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly council never knew ;-P |
| 11:12.54 | psycho_oreos | We do now. :> *just kidding* |
| 11:13.06 | troulouliou_dev | psycho_oreos, seems logical thanks |
| 11:13.22 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, yes, the guy must have some serious connections to have discovered it |
| 11:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, btw, council will decease in 3.5 weeks |
| 11:13.40 | troulouliou_dev | fun phone, never dies :) |
| 11:13.47 | MohammadAG | oh really? |
| 11:14.03 | MohammadAG | I'm not affiliated with the council in any way, hate messages should be directed at DocScrutinizer05 |
| 11:14.13 | MohammadAG | thank you for your support :) |
| 11:14.19 | psycho_oreos | *chuckles* |
| 11:14.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, i'm not coucil anymore in 3 weeks |
| 11:15.03 | MohammadAG | The captain always goes down with the ship |
| 11:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it seems nobody will be council in 4 weeks |
| 11:15.12 | MohammadAG | he doesn't jump off half a week before :P |
| 11:15.28 | MohammadAG | but seriously, what happened? |
| 11:15.44 | *** join/#maemo gyutyuglf (gyutyuglf@86.126.58.151) |
| 11:15.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty normal election pending |
| 11:15.44 | psycho_oreos | troulouliou_dev, I was thinking that bleeding edge drivers may also not corporate with certain aspects of power outputs. Even if they share the same antenna, etc the wlan doesn't really compensate for bluetooth because it doesn't know that bluetooth exists and is sharing on the same lines as wlan. |
| 11:15.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody cares |
| 11:16.16 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 11:17.15 | psycho_oreos | What.. so ultimately maemo.org will be wholly donation driven with no councils and no plans to improvise? |
| 11:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody joins council meetings, nobody takes notice of qwazix' election announcement |
| 11:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo council chair doesn't respond at all to anything |
| 11:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | no candidates for next election show up, nobody to send out tokens or anything |
| 11:19.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I refuse to do this *again* |
| 11:19.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I couldn't blame qwazix when he also refuses to do this again |
| 11:20.31 | psycho_oreos | Damn, I was under the wrong impression that it seems the council has been somewhat going smoothly apart from issue with that treasurer whom has gone awol. |
| 11:20.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got council chair chem|st who *should* take care, and we got merlin1991, both ignore the topic completely |
| 11:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: that's HiFo board, not maemo council |
| 11:21.36 | psycho_oreos | Ahh *facepalms self*. Yes.. right.. my bad |
| 11:22.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I managed last maemo council election, I managed HiFo resurrection and re-election, and now I'm terminally fed up |
| 11:22.40 | psycho_oreos | Maybe the people on the HiFo board can do something about the existing council members whom fail to enact on something. :d |
| 11:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, I forgot: I managed election of HiFo council and unification of both councils |
| 11:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | since evrybody was mad about that happening |
| 11:27.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that everything got accomplished, public interest is zilch |
| 11:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | in HiFo, maemo council and HiFo council |
| 11:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and elections |
| 11:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and meetings |
| 11:28.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I'll just watch maemo die in 4 weeks |
| 11:28.52 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@kurios.r4780y.com) |
| 11:30.22 | Pali | ah when playing mp3 via OMP then PA using 70% CPU :-( |
| 11:30.31 | Pali | another bug in PA... |
| 11:30.55 | Pali | why on the earth got idea to create PA???? |
| 11:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I came to the conclusion that everybody loves maemo to be 100% community driven, but only to utter requests for stuff getting done by some fairy for users. Nobody interested in the fact that a entity needs a management |
| 11:33.12 | Pali | why nokia did not created closed alsa pluings, but closed PA plugins?? |
| 11:33.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: the people on HiFo board are busy sorting their "own" issues with bank accounts and who does what and when and how |
| 11:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: and in 4 weeks it goes pooof and no more council at duty and thus basically no more maemo |
| 11:34.52 | *** join/#maemo _MyStartx_ (~MyStartx@86.126.58.151) |
| 11:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I officially announce that I fail on my council duties to help on organizing new council elections |
| 11:36.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not interested in a maemo community that exists only because I reanimate it |
| 11:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW I quit my role as maemo community cardio pacemaker |
| 11:37.35 | Pali | why skype using 12 processes??? |
| 11:37.41 | Pali | on n900? |
| 11:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | plaI couldn't care less |
| 11:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ^^^ |
| 11:40.12 | psycho_oreos | I guess it will become more of a mess. Not that it's gonna affect you if you are going to resign. To me it sort of seems like there's lack of communication within the council. Whilst one is getting all burnt out from holding the site up, there's not much support that could be offered to alleviate the issue. |
| 11:41.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | holding the site up is only one of the duties of council |
| 11:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | when nobody is interested in council and what it does, then nobody should be surprised when eventually site goes down |
| 11:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | without council there's basically nobody acting on behalf of "the maemo community" and things will go south pretty quickly |
| 11:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe HiFo just seizes control over the infra and continues doing with it whatever they like - when they find time to care about mameo infra technical aspects at all |
| 11:48.04 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (lizardo@nat/indt/x-oqfdrjsorambgsej) |
| 11:48.04 | XATRIX | Hi, is there any good app, to blacklist numbers ? I don't want to receive calls from a certain numbers |
| 11:48.15 | XATRIX | Especially some bank numbers |
| 11:48.25 | psycho_oreos | So there was a council election after June 2013? |
| 11:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 11:49.03 | psycho_oreos | I was trying to find more info about council stuff: http://maemo.org/community/council/councils_become_finally_one/ |
| 11:49.19 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~textual@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 11:49.59 | psycho_oreos | The wiki certainly looks quite outdated :/ 5 members from community. When the two councils merged, it became 4 members. |
| 11:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we have 4 official mambers in the unified council now |
| 11:50.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | members* |
| 11:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the council term ends in 3.5weeks |
| 11:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/community/council/q4_2013_community_council_election_announcement/ |
| 11:51.52 | XATRIX | Is there any good app, to blacklist incoming call numbers ? |
| 11:51.59 | psycho_oreos | Ahh yes I was about to ask that. |
| 11:54.19 | jonwil | I for one intend to stay out of politics and do my bit for the community with my reverse engineering and software skills |
| 11:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | council is not politics |
| 11:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | council is about *work* to be done |
| 11:55.22 | jonwil | ok |
| 11:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there's no more council, nobbody will decide which new maintainers to grant on packages, which new projects to allow on garage, which developers to get access to extras uploads |
| 11:58.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody will manage the infra anymore, on the management level, not on the sysop / maintainer level |
| 11:59.09 | jonwil | ok so its about organization rather than politics |
| 11:59.11 | jonwil | got ya |
| 12:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might keep my role as maemo admin manager as long as there is no new council, but when I decide to quit, nobody will appoint a successor for my position |
| 12:00.30 | psycho_oreos | http://maemo.org/community/council/2012-12-14_meeting_minutes/ <--- old but gives one an insight I suppose. |
| 12:02.42 | XATRIX | Anyone knows a good app to blacklist incoming phone numbers ? |
| 12:03.02 | psycho_oreos | We heard you the first time.. |
| 12:04.34 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB1927.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:04.40 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, is there a possibility (call me crazy but..) somehow invite those two other members whom stepped down during the council merges to come back up and see if they can try and re-invigorate the council? |
| 12:05.20 | psycho_oreos | I also see the latest thread on upcoming elections, only two of the four people "signed off". |
| 12:05.35 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~quassel@115.134.65.19) |
| 12:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, no reaction whatsoever from the other two |
| 12:06.41 | psycho_oreos | Hmm.. :/ |
| 12:07.11 | psycho_oreos | You mean the other two whom didn't sign off or the two members whom stepped down? |
| 12:07.18 | psycho_oreos | .. or even both? :/ |
| 12:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, the two who stepped down are actually pretty active, just not for council anymore, despite they got a honor membership status |
| 12:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-10-04.log.html |
| 12:09.42 | psycho_oreos | I personally reckon it might be an idea to try and get those whom stepped down to come back on again. Even though it can seem like it's overkill but at least maybe they maybe able to help you from getting burnt out. |
| 12:09.52 | psycho_oreos | Ta, reading that now. |
| 12:15.23 | psycho_oreos | Seems like sixwheeledbeast is pretty active at the meeting. |
| 12:15.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe I'm just in a dommsday mood and some brillant motivated 6 new maemo council candidates stap up in a week or two |
| 12:15.54 | psycho_oreos | chem|st didn't respond and merlin1991 finally responded. |
| 12:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's pretty representative |
| 12:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there has to be done wuite a bit of organizing for elections behind the scenes, to get tokens / ballots sent out |
| 12:18.09 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't blame you for being burnt out, I have noticed at times you have called out for help with various issues. Though yeah it just seems like if nothing is going to change after the election (and it seems like you have served for quite sometime as well, notably during the migration days where it was most likely hectic.) it seems as though one could almost be willing to give up the entire thing. |
| 12:19.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, doomsday* and step* up |
| 12:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and quite* and I'm out now |
| 12:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | woody once "promised" a working karma and election engine based on karma, for the next elections. seems that stalled as well |
| 12:21.42 | psycho_oreos | o.O I bet freemangordon has been nominated. :D |
| 12:22.27 | psycho_oreos | woody? |
| 12:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also lack to spot the electon announcement on ML |
| 12:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes woody |
| 12:24.56 | *** join/#maemo OkropNick (kuba@host-n2-75-80.telpol.net.pl) |
| 12:25.21 | psycho_oreos | Ahh I don't know who that person is. |
| 12:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | he fixed much of the karma stuff in midgard, and he provided the web frontend to set up new elections. Alas it lacks a few bits like proper karma based token database creation, primarily due to lack of tmo based correct karma |
| 12:25.31 | chem|st | psycho_oreos: elections are mandatory, don't know why it would need a 'vote' on if we hold elections?! I tried to get info on Nokia/Jolla conversations and it seems noone has a clue but Rob |
| 12:26.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: nobody "votes" on elections |
| 12:26.39 | chem|st | I asked for thoughts regarding includance of jolla into maemo.org without asking much of jolla |
| 12:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: they just need to get DONE, and one rule says they get announced by council CHAIR |
| 12:28.40 | psycho_oreos | chem|st, *shrugs* I'm sorta trying to get a better grasp on how it works. I was sort of under the impression the elections are based on community (well those with karma of course) voting. |
| 12:28.58 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: exactly, by the time I read it (as I was afk for 5 days) all mails were sent and posts were made, no need to comment anything?=! So it is my fault to not have that in my timeline and I am sorry for that. OTOH we are nothing like a governmental institution and thereby a day or two behind such things isn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. |
| 12:29.18 | chem|st | psycho_oreos: I am speaking of the election announcement not election |
| 12:30.27 | psycho_oreos | chem|st, right well not saying that there needed to be votes. I was just looking at those who have signatures below on the election announcement. It was somewhat a bit unusual it was not signed on behalf of the council but rather by two members. |
| 12:31.21 | chem|st | yeah that was mistaken by qwazix I guess... |
| 12:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way |
| 12:31.32 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, ahh interesting (about karma stuff). I've yet to find how much karma I got. LOL (probably 0 or -1, etc). |
| 12:32.14 | chem|st | all announcements should read the name of the announcer + obotc but who cares?! |
| 12:32.38 | psycho_oreos | obotc? |
| 12:32.48 | chem|st | it is not art or something (on behalf of... |
| 12:32.59 | psycho_oreos | Ahh. |
| 12:34.25 | psycho_oreos | Better to ask just in case if I get it mistaken. |
| 12:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sure. I just think we rather should adhere to existing rules whenever possible |
| 12:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | one such rule is "CHAIR annoces elections" |
| 12:35.41 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre__@wikimedia/aklapper) |
| 12:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and while I agree that a few days delay are almost usual, I think there's no good reason to ignore that rule all together |
| 12:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's not just about announcing elections, they don't happen by just announcing them, they need to get managed |
| 12:39.22 | kolp | So what is a good way to get involved in admin/council stuff if one is mostly a lurker on tmo and irc and a happy user of an n900 and hasn't contributed much in terms of actual dev work? |
| 12:39.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can both on that management as well, sending out tokens to a random number of community members or just allowing everybody to vote, but that's again not adhering to the rules then |
| 12:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | kolp: you should probably read the meeting minutes of council, thus getting an idea what it's all about. |
| 12:44.16 | kolp | Yes, but I've read a couple of times that all that is stuff for 'trusted community members', which of course makes sense. But if I have no dev contributions it's difficult to gain that status ;) |
| 12:44.47 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~Pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 12:45.14 | psycho_oreos | You're certainly not alone there. :) I also have zilch dev contributions. Maybe a few bug reports here and there but that's about it. |
| 12:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I neither have remarkable dev contributions |
| 12:47.49 | chem|st | kolp: drafting ideas how to get the community back to speed - contribute to discussions/meetings with your knowledge, help testing cssu-testing stuff with the guys in #maemo-ssu |
| 12:47.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not a prerequisite for council |
| 12:48.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | testing cssu is definzely not a job of council members |
| 12:50.24 | psycho_oreos | Though I guess it's in some ways to show that you are committed to helping in the community. |
| 12:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think neither RevdKathy nor MentalistTraceur been any sort of developer or tester |
| 12:50.47 | chem|st | kolp: I grew into it with talk and being alpha/beta tester, then I was asked to maintain cssu-stable and talked reggie into giving talk.mo away with me being his replacement and oops |
| 12:51.38 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: it is about how to become a recognized member without being a dev |
| 12:51.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's all pretty much unrelated to council |
| 12:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, k |
| 12:52.02 | chem|st | it is all pretty much related to council! |
| 12:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that explains why we don't see you on meetings |
| 12:53.26 | chem|st | without doing betatesting and brainstorming, asking to moderate some subforums I would never have gotten that deep into this mess ;) |
| 12:54.56 | kolp | notices that he even has some karma... :) |
| 12:55.24 | psycho_oreos | Yup same here, double digits as well. *frowns* |
| 12:55.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kolp: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work |
| 12:56.17 | kolp | The karma looks wrong, though |
| 12:56.18 | psycho_oreos | Now.. I still need to find that bloody link with all the current council and their photos. I think there was something on that page that would give me some wanted info.. |
| 12:56.43 | psycho_oreos | Ahh there it is... DocScrutinizer05 to the rescue. |
| 12:57.05 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't blame karma if you have something to show your status! :D |
| 12:58.32 | psycho_oreos | Elections are open to community members with an account over 3 months old and karma of 10 or more. Candidates can be anyone with a karma of 100 or above. |
| 12:59.05 | psycho_oreos | Looks like I miss the mark for being a candidate haha.. not that I was willing but curious. |
| 12:59.17 | kolp | Wasn't 'thanks' part of karma at some point? |
| 12:59.44 | chem|st | karma will be calcualted by hand if there is not enough in th database yet, as tmo karma does not work for some reason |
| 12:59.50 | kolp | And why do I have karma for 'Bugzilla reported' if a search on b.m.o reveals I have reported zarro? |
| 13:00.02 | psycho_oreos | http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma <-- they're weighted. |
| 13:00.09 | chem|st | kolp: a comment counts as well |
| 13:00.33 | kolp | chem|st: That's a separate part |
| 13:00.42 | psycho_oreos | You even get 1 karma point for having garage.maemo.org account. |
| 13:01.25 | psycho_oreos | Err no my bad. |
| 13:01.29 | psycho_oreos | takes that back. |
| 13:02.58 | jonwil | hmmm, I only have 73 karma so I am ineligible for council in any case even if I wanted to participate |
| 13:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: we can't calculate karma by hand for 10k users |
| 13:04.10 | kolp | I think automatic karma calculation is seriously wrong, at least in my case |
| 13:04.43 | psycho_oreos | jonwil, I'd say you are lucky considering like DocScrutinizer05 have in-depth knowledge of things. :) I'm like a small fry compared to you two haha. (Karma: 37) |
| 13:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: defintely not. The karma is broken since it lacks tmo |
| 13:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I wouldn't be surprised if even my karma right atm doesn't allow me to be candidate |
| 13:05.55 | psycho_oreos | I'd say counting 10,000 users and updating their "Thanks!" into karma (database) would probably blow the karma proportions out by a lot. |
| 13:06.21 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, I'd say you're close to the top (i.e. >100) lol. |
| 13:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | should be >600 though |
| 13:06.46 | *** part/#maemo gyutyuglf (gyutyuglf@86.126.58.151) |
| 13:06.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been <80 a while back, when even wiki karma was broken |
| 13:07.00 | psycho_oreos | Exactly, so why fuss? hahahhaha. lol |
| 13:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway we can't send out tokens since we have no working karma base to decide who gets a token and who won't |
| 13:08.08 | jonwil | Anyhow, I intend to keep working on MCE and maybe hit GPS |
| 13:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | without tokens no voting, without voting no new council |
| 13:08.41 | psycho_oreos | In other words, tokens are given out to user's accounts active for more than 3 months and has karma of 10 or more? |
| 13:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:09.28 | psycho_oreos | Ahh I see, so I should be seeing a token but I don't see any. That makes sense. |
| 13:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have ~2 weeks to fix tmo karma and send out tokens |
| 13:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see anybody taking care of that problem |
| 13:10.49 | psycho_oreos | I reckon someone should get that karma and token (ideally the token first) bit going before the next election starts. Otherwise the current council members would become ultimately the "new" council members because there was no actual vote. |
| 13:10.58 | psycho_oreos | I was about to say.. :) |
| 13:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | see backscroll, I mentioned that woody once said this will be fixed when we need it for next election. It isn't |
| 13:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I CBA to push any longer |
| 13:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I pushed this and whatnot else since ~12 months now |
| 13:13.00 | psycho_oreos | Yeah, I now recall that and I also know who woody is now as well after scouring on w.m.o |
| 13:13.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | so all the pushing community and everybody else can expect from my side is what i'm just doing: ranting about it |
| 13:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even that i'lll stop now |
| 13:14.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll simply lean back and watch the whole thing die |
| 13:14.53 | psycho_oreos | ~seen Woody14619 |
| 13:14.55 | infobot | woody14619 <~Woody@66-162-186-66.static.twtelecom.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 25d 19h 21m 27s ago, saying: 'odd... Time to reboot. :)'. |
| 13:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry but I can't sustain my dedication any longer |
| 13:16.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I can't blame qwazix when he neither is going to push things |
| 13:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm quite sure he feels just like me |
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| 13:31.39 | troulouliou_dev | if it is like me maybe all those low karma guys just temporary bought an android phone and will runback to their n900 in a few month/year :) |
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| 13:44.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | will be too late then |
| 13:46.08 | gormux | I miss mine a little... but the hardware was just too slow, and the screen is bad compared to newer devices |
| 13:46.15 | gormux | but the system was great |
| 13:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I notice the maemo community core is bleeding out and currently ~20..50 persons, of which 99% say "no politics" and just do what they like to do, I.E. develop stuff. The rest of "community" are consumers |
| 13:46.54 | gormux | I helped a colleague program some automations on his, it reminded me how much i loved the n900 |
| 13:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | urgently needs a break to avoid suffering a feeling of deep despair |
| 13:49.44 | chem|st | that is why we should get jolla on board... without a new hype we will be stuck with those 20 having enough love to do things |
| 13:50.12 | chem|st | reminds me to love some building new cssu release soon |
| 13:50.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't do same mistake like Rob did. there's nothing to get 2on board" - Jolla clearly stated they are not interested in maemo |
| 13:51.24 | chem|st | I know but they are interested in having us become jolla-community and that is what needs to happen |
| 13:51.38 | kolp | But we're not jolla |
| 13:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's nonsense |
| 13:51.45 | kolp | Neither are they maemo |
| 13:51.51 | chem|st | the approach we are maemo and we are your community does not work |
| 13:51.57 | troulouliou_dev | that the only dev ive done for maemo/n900 :http://code.google.com/p/gamekit/issues/detail?id=120&can=1&q=maemo |
| 13:52.01 | troulouliou_dev | :) |
| 13:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, i'm not jolla community and nobody else will become jolla community, no matter what you do |
| 13:52.38 | jonwil | I for one intend to keep using my N900 so long as it continues to work |
| 13:52.51 | kolp | jonwil: +1 |
| 13:52.54 | chem|st | oh ok so I missunderstood the idea of we adopt jolla as the n9 successor completely? |
| 13:52.57 | jonwil | I will never give up on the N900 and Maemo |
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| 13:53.20 | chem|st | jonwil: that is not asked off of you |
| 13:53.22 | kolp | Well, how does a jolla hype benefit *maemo*? |
| 13:53.51 | chem|st | people |
| 13:54.00 | psycho_oreos | 213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1379321 <--- May seem crap... but better than nothing I hope. |
| 13:54.03 | chem|st | active people |
| 13:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't need 2people" |
| 13:54.21 | kolp | But those people would be interested in jolla, not maemo, or what am I missing? |
| 13:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't see any activity of "jolla people" |
| 13:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly no activity relevant for maemo |
| 13:54.54 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: go to tmo... |
| 13:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | nor any relevant activity in maemo, from jolla's POV |
| 13:55.35 | chem|st | and particular relevant activity is people setting up repos for jolla and willing to have a look after what we came from |
| 13:55.48 | chem|st | maemo.... |
| 13:55.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | eh? |
| 13:56.31 | psycho_oreos | I read about jolla using rpm as their package manager instead of the maemo's usual routine of deb as package manager. |
| 13:56.35 | chem|st | old maemo versions aren't relevant to n900 people but we still keep an eye on things if need be |
| 13:56.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's anybody who sets up a repo for Jolla (NB we don't even know if that would work at all) going to have a look at maemo stuff? |
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| 13:57.15 | chem|st | seems I am totally in the wrong place here |
| 14:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your take is "I'm moving on, you better follow2 then maybe yes. We had that with meego, quite some time ago. Many devels abandoned maemo fremantle and developed for meego. When now same shall happen for meego harmattan -> jolla sailfish transition then I guess that doesn't need further support and fostering, it already happened and still happening |
| 14:02.27 | mickname | my n900 shut down mid browsing and wont restart (nokia logo appears and then the screen stays black with backlight on) |
| 14:02.30 | mickname | wat do? :( |
| 14:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sailfish however is NOT maemo anymore, and jolla clearly stated that they don't see any link back to maemo OS and maemo community |
| 14:02.46 | chem|st | and that happened as nokia tried to build a new meego community elsewhere... jolla said that anyone can start the jolla community, they wont start it nor prevent it to happen |
| 14:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | mickname: worst case reflash |
| 14:03.23 | chem|st | same goes for mer and nitdroid |
| 14:03.53 | chem|st | mickname: does it charge? |
| 14:04.07 | mickname | chem|st: yeah, the yellow light pluses |
| 14:04.10 | mickname | *pulses |
| 14:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you can start a new community any time. You however never can *migrate* a community |
| 14:04.21 | mickname | although the battery was lowish when it "died" |
| 14:05.11 | chem|st | does it die after it went blackscreen backlight on? |
| 14:05.36 | mickname | i'm jost not very keen to reflash as i didnt make any system changes before it died so it's hard to believe it would help |
| 14:06.01 | mickname | i think after a while the screen shuts down as in normal powersave |
| 14:06.16 | mickname | im not entirely sure, it doesnt seem to be very consistent |
| 14:06.23 | chem|st | charge it for a while and try again |
| 14:06.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | mickname: you switched it on? |
| 14:06.50 | mickname | yes :) |
| 14:07.17 | mickname | i'm aware that it can't be turned on while its on the charger |
| 14:07.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 14:07.33 | chem|st | it can... but it wont charge during boot |
| 14:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it can't be turned OFF completely |
| 14:08.05 | mickname | umm.. if the phone is off, i attach it to charger and try to turn it on it wont start |
| 14:08.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it rather will enter act_dead mode |
| 14:08.34 | mickname | it just displays the dim nokia logo as far as i recall, and has always worked like that |
| 14:08.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | try to turn it on when it's NOT on charger |
| 14:08.39 | mickname | yeah i did |
| 14:09.24 | chem|st | remove battery for some minutes, put it back together and charge it for at least 30 minutes then unplug and try again booting |
| 14:09.52 | mickname | ok i will try that, i tried removing the battery for a few secs but that didn't help |
| 14:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's absolutely incorrect behaviour. When device is on charger, it will "boot up" same moment you plug it to charger, then enter act _dead mode where it *pretends* to be off. Then whe it reached that state you _can_ swtich it on, which causes a reboot to another runlevel where it doesn't pretend to be off |
| 14:11.19 | mickname | i've never managed to turn n900 fully on while attached to a charger |
| 14:11.33 | mickname | just pressing the powerbutton? |
| 14:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | removing battery when device hasn't shut down completely (will take up to 30s after it looks like it powered down) is dangerous for the filesystem |
| 14:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, just press power button until the white light on indicator completely bright |
| 14:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | (2..3s) |
| 14:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | before removing battery shut device down (power button for 5s, until white light completely dim) then WAIT for 30s |
| 14:13.50 | mickname | is it possible that i have a strange firmware version or something as i've seriously tried turning the phone on while being plugged in during the 4-ish years i've owned it but never have succeeded |
| 14:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | early powerkernels had that bug |
| 14:14.41 | mickname | i think i have a later powerkernel :-) |
| 14:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you can't power it up when plugged to charger, then probably not recent enough |
| 14:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | up til I think KP46 the device always enetred act_dead mode when booting up, due to incorrect bootreason bassed from NOLO to kernel |
| 14:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | passed* |
| 14:18.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the bright side it at least charged in act_dead mode |
| 14:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can boot up from battery (when charged) and then plug in the charger when device completely booted |
| 14:19.07 | mickname | okay, i'll try to get the battery fully charged and try gain |
| 14:19.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | good plan |
| 14:19.17 | mickname | i know the battery is getting a bit bad |
| 14:19.25 | mickname | its the original |
| 14:19.53 | mickname | thanks for the suggestions |
| 14:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | once booted you should check your kernel version |
| 14:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | uname -a |
| 14:22.42 | mickname | does n900 log syslog? |
| 14:22.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your filesystem got corrupted, boot can take quite a while until screen gets lit (it may do fsck which takes several minutes) |
| 14:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you installed ksyslogd then yes |
| 14:23.40 | mickname | during the "nonresponsive" black backlit screen, i could power it off from the powerbutton with the normal white fadeoutled |
| 14:23.50 | mickname | so its not completely unresponsive |
| 14:23.59 | mickname | i'll report back later :-) |
| 14:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that seems to suggest it's busy with boot and probably fsck in there (or optification) - or simply stuck with something that doesn't allow X11 to come up |
| 14:25.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | black screen for a minute or two isn't unheard |
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| 14:25.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it doesn't come back to normal during 30min, after booting and plugging in charger 2 minutes later... |
| 14:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have a problem |
| 14:27.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you can't log in via ssh and wifi, and you don't feel like messing around with rescueOS (which wouldn't allow to install e.g. ksyslogd), then reflashing is your best bet in that case |
| 14:28.39 | mickname | i have ssh server enabled but if i recall my phone wont automatically connecto to any networks :( |
| 14:28.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when I say "charger" I mean Nokia original wallwart fastcharger, NOT anything else, NOT PC |
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| 14:37.02 | bindiboi | can I somehow hook up a switch/button to my n900 and listen for the keypress with python? |
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| 14:41.40 | garnthy | Hello |
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| 14:46.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, or anything that you know will give at least 1.1A to musb, with a short d+/d- |
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| 14:50.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | bindi: yes, see hold-button on headset |
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| 14:51.54 | bindi | DocScrutinizer05: so easiest way is to get a headset with answer button |
| 14:52.12 | kerio | bindi: eyup |
| 14:52.18 | kerio | there's the stock one |
| 14:52.26 | bindi | that'd be long gone by now lol |
| 14:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a 3.5mm 4 pin plug, connect your switch between base and ring next to base. Leave tip and first ring unconnected |
| 14:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or get an arbitrary headset with 3.5mm plug and one button |
| 14:56.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe cheaper than a plug |
| 14:58.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, and actually you'd need a 2kR resistor in parallel to your switch when you try DIY, otherwise the AV logic will think you hooked up a TV and will feed video signal to the 3rd ring and not listen to switch |
| 15:00.42 | bindi | ugh |
| 15:01.03 | bindi | takes notes |
| 15:02.26 | sixwheeledbeast | ah, useful to know. 2k resistor. I have been thinking of making a wired handsfree kit so I can put the microphone in a better place and have push button on the dash then audio routed to radio. |
| 15:05.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the 2kR simulates a mic |
| 15:06.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I would have to rethink if 2k is the right value, but probably yes |
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| 15:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a headset the hold button simply shorts the mic |
| 15:14.30 | bindi | what i'm planning to do with my old n900: place the camera on my doors peephole, and replace the doorbell with an electronic switch that connects to the n900 |
| 15:14.46 | bindi | and notify me when the doorbell is rang |
| 15:15.02 | bindi | possibly take a picture, and/or have a local stream of the camera |
| 15:15.06 | bindi | doable? nuts? :P |
| 15:15.51 | kolp | bindi: Sounds like a fun project :) |
| 15:15.55 | kolp | And sounds doable |
| 15:17.29 | chem|st | bindi: sounds more like a RPi thing but well doable |
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| 15:20.00 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: the n9 headset (shipped with) has only stereo on my samsung tablet when I hold the button down |
| 15:20.22 | chem|st | never tested other headsets (with mic+button) |
| 15:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | samsung tablet probably has apple "standard" then. With Gnd on 3rd ring and mic on sleeve :-o |
| 15:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | apple invented this crap to differnetiate from other standards and have their own headsets sold |
| 15:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no sane EE would place mic hot wire on sleeve of a 3.5mm plug |
| 15:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's as nuts as placing GND to inner connector of RCA cinch and the signal to the shielding |
| 15:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas due to whyPhone hype this "standard" gets more and more popular |
| 15:28.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | originally the iPods also hat a immersion where the 3.5mm jack sits, so you couldn't plug in "normal" 3.5mm plugs since they had too large diameter |
| 15:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/hat/had/ |
| 15:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | complete bullshit |
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| 15:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | this insanity started long ago with apple computers that had even dangerous 3.5mm plugs that were longer than normal, and thus destroyed other devices when you tried to plug in flush such apple proprietary 3.5mm jack. iPod was "save" since it hat that immersion |
| 15:31.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | had* damn! |
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| 15:31.58 | bindi | chem|st: yes but then my n900 would be useless :p |
| 15:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitly doable |
| 15:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for that camera at doorspy |
| 15:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if that would work |
| 15:34.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | will work if you don't have that fisheye thingie in that peephole |
| 15:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I wouldn't know |
| 15:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and hey! you can even use accelerometer to detect people knocking the door ;-) |
| 15:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and record audio |
| 15:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and playback mp3 tunes for doorbell |
| 15:38.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I think when your N900 is in good condition then you could as well sell it and get a ready made IP cam with trigger input for the money |
| 15:39.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | easier to mount, better suited cam for the porpose, comes with IR light usually, power via PoE via UTP/cat5 or dedicated PSU |
| 15:41.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 cam's autofocus will most likely give you headache |
| 15:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the 5MP are overkill that gives you some more headache |
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| 16:36.46 | sixwheeledbeast | Yes I agree PoE IP camera at front door. Or even composite camera plugged into TV. It does sound like RPi project. I agree on the TRRS thing too, bloody apple/samsung crap. There's a standard for a reason and most are ignoring it. |
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| 17:27.25 | mickname | sooo... i flashed the rootfs on my phone and now it's stuck on the dot-animation |
| 17:27.49 | Sicelo | wait |
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| 17:30.59 | Sicelo | mickname: still nothing? |
| 17:31.07 | mickname | yup |
| 17:31.29 | mickname | already waited for 10 mins |
| 17:31.45 | Sicelo | u flashed ootfs only? |
| 17:31.58 | mickname | actually, its seems to be stuck in exactly the same way as before flashinh but this time i can see the dots |
| 17:32.01 | mickname | yup |
| 17:32.26 | mickname | (see discussion ~3h before) |
| 17:32.37 | Sicelo | oh.. let me see |
| 17:32.44 | mickname | 3.5h |
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| 17:35.21 | Sicelo | you guys spoke about lots of stuff, lol.. am even lazy to read all of it. |
| 17:35.28 | mickname | :-) |
| 17:35.40 | Sicelo | anyway, did the flash succeed? your image is not corrupt somehow? |
| 17:35.57 | mickname | the flasher didn't report any errors |
| 17:36.22 | mickname | and the phone seems to be exactly the sameway as before on boot except this time i can see the dots |
| 17:39.47 | Sicelo | i don't know. i would confirm if the image is really good. |
| 17:40.12 | Sicelo | and maybe even flash the whole device, incl emmc |
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| 18:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | flash VANILLA |
| 18:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | /home corrupted |
| 18:41.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or boot rescueOS and restore /home from a former version |
| 18:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...if you have any backup |
| 18:41.23 | *** join/#maemo frafl (~Thunderbi@e178074255.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:41.46 | sixwheeledbeast | mickname: ^^^ |
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| 19:00.42 | mickname | yeah |
| 19:01.17 | mickname | ï'll try to leave the phone on for like 4-10h to see if it fschks and then try to flash the emmc also :( |
| 19:01.29 | mickname | no backups of course ;) |
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| 19:15.40 | Sicelo | lol mickname. if it hasn't fsck'ed now, any more time won't make any difference. |
| 19:16.11 | Sicelo | you're just using up battery power, which you need for a successful flash. i hope your device still charges |
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| 19:25.30 | dos1 | yay |
| 19:25.54 | dos1 | 1.5 years of updates for my n900! |
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| 19:36.28 | mickname | yeah it charges |
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| 19:52.33 | brolin_empey | Microsoft Windows version 1.01 can run COMMAND.COM in a window instead of full-screen but I do not remember if Windows 3.x has the same capability. |
| 19:54.59 | brolin_empey | wanted to tell Tekk_ as a continuation of our conversation in this channel on Friday but he (she?) is no longer present. ☹ |
| 19:59.01 | brolin_empey | Incidentally, (the) Quassel IRC (client) almost seems too newschool for me. ☹ |
| 20:03.34 | brolin_empey | Incidentally, does anyone here have any experience with the AdvanceTC Magic W3 ? |
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| 20:10.02 | brolin_empey | Even if Windows 7 for x86-32 performs satisfactorily with only 1 GiB of physical RAM but at least with the page file on fast (NAND) flash memory instead of a slow HDD, the 800×480 display combined with the lack of an integrated hardware keyboard seems like a deal breaker to me. ☹ |
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| 20:16.17 | brolin_empey | Heh, I just realised the Bill of Materials for an Intel Atom integrated circuit is an Atom IC BOM, which sounds similar to “atomic bomb”. :-D |
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| 20:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
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| 23:11.14 | kolp | Hm, does the N9 have cherry, or something cherry-like? |
| 23:11.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, good question |
| 23:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think it does |
| 23:12.38 | kolp | I just revived a b0rked N9, and am wondering if I should feed it a SIM |
| 23:12.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | since neither maps nor guidance nor a few other services work without you registering some crappy account |
| 23:13.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it however might not rely on SIM anymore |
| 23:13.48 | kolp | It has no wifi yet, either :) |
| 23:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think they now got better means to 100% identify a device (aegis) |
| 23:15.38 | kolp | I guess I have some reading up to do before letting the device out into the wild |
| 23:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway since thanks to aegis you can't tamper with any cherry-like crap at all, you shouldn't probably worry. either get over it or bin the device |
| 23:16.20 | RiD | send it to me would ya? |
| 23:17.25 | kolp | It's not mine to give away :) |
| 23:17.34 | RiD | oh :( |
| 23:17.49 | kolp | Just reflashed it for its owner |
| 23:21.13 | kolp | The UI seems a bit inconsistent |
| 23:22.32 | M4rtinK | they'll probably soon announce that any cherry like service for MeeGo will be discontinued from the 1.1.2014 :D |
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| 23:26.23 | kolp | It's quite a sign when one doesn't feel comfortable inserting a SIM or connecting a device to the intarwebs... |
| 23:26.34 | kolp | I know why I love and prefer the N900... |
| 23:27.16 | RiD | N900 makes you send an sms when you install pr 1.3 |
| 23:27.45 | RiD | "makes you send" / sends* |
| 23:28.01 | kolp | Yes, but at least that's a well-known 'feature' and there's a more or less easy way to disable that |
| 23:29.48 | RiD | hm, how to disable? |
| 23:29.50 | ecc3g | all nokia phones send a SMS home upon first startup? |
| 23:30.03 | RiD | no? |
| 23:30.27 | ecc3g | my 5230 symbian did it too, I forget what my n900 did |
| 23:30.55 | kolp | apt-get remove cherry |
| 23:31.19 | RiD | it's called cherry? lol |
| 23:31.42 | ecc3g | at least my data plan doesn't charge for sms... but phoning home is annoying |
| 23:33.20 | kolp | Well, I believe it's none of a mobile phone manufacturer business to know where their phones end up and who is using them |
| 23:37.10 | kolp | forum.meego.com is dead? |
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| 23:38.01 | ecc3g | yeah and technically mobile phone service providers shouldn't need to know either, but unfortunately they have to... heh |
| 23:38.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cherry |
| 23:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | grrr |
| 23:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 23:38.35 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 23:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | fmc is dead, yeah |
| 23:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 23:43.07 | kolp | archive.org fail. gna |