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| 03:49.58 | int_ua | Why is /usr/bin/photolightmeter so suspiciously huge? It's double the size of OMP and Xorg while being just a couple of buttons in UI |
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| 04:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | congrats USA! the teaparty reps took you as hostage |
| 04:12.45 | int_ua | what's that about? |
| 04:12.59 | ecc3g | people don't want to pay their taxes |
| 04:14.25 | ecc3g | people don't want to work either... then again nobody offering jobs |
| 04:14.35 | ecc3g | USA = one messed up financial system |
| 04:16.01 | int_ua | Is it just thinking around or something happened that I've missed? |
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| 04:17.46 | ecc3g | nah, dont think anyone really should care about it except us who are in the US. |
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| 04:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, seems like all government employees have unpaid offtime from now on, thanks to teaparty minority even in republican party that thinks they can rule the US and roll back legally installed laws |
| 04:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | all companies waiting for government paying their invoices will get into trouble as well |
| 04:33.44 | doc|home | such is life when you run such a massive deficit |
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| 04:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope the sane 50% of americans will lynch the tea party fools |
| 04:34.58 | doc|home | nice, advocacy of violence |
| 04:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, violence is what stops violence |
| 04:36.17 | doc|home | what violence is being stopped again? |
| 04:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to me it pretty much looks like the tea party dudes are the aggressors |
| 04:37.06 | jonwil | The real problem is that no-one on either side of politics in the US is willing to do any of the things that will actually FIX the US economy or the federal budget |
| 04:37.17 | doc|home | I have no love for them, but that's easily one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen |
| 04:37.26 | doc|home | jonwil: indeed |
| 04:37.57 | jonwil | because the things that will fix the economy and budget are things that will hurt the big corporations who donate most of the lobbying money to US politicans |
| 04:38.34 | doc|home | jonwil: and will hurt the huge number of people who get a government pay cheque with it |
| 04:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | tea party killing families that suddenly have no income, so what's wrong about hoping for the sane half of population kicking ass of those 1% that really has never grown a brain? |
| 04:39.38 | doc|home | oh fuck, you're a 1% person |
| 04:41.12 | doc|home | http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0408/Government-shutdown-101-Will-Social-Security-and-Medicare-be-affected |
| 04:41.30 | doc|home | and while CS may have "Christian" in the name (which I'm not) it's reporting is pretty good |
| 04:41.58 | doc|home | the only things being shut down are "non-essential services", even those have >6% of staff still at work |
| 04:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, great |
| 04:42.26 | doc|home | what? |
| 04:42.35 | doc|home | you're just plain wrong, but you're continuing? |
| 04:42.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind |
| 04:42.42 | doc|home | ok |
| 04:44.51 | jonwil | Increase taxes on wall street and the big end of town, cut spending on crap that the US doesn't need (like some of the really expensive defense, infrastructure and security projects that do nothing except benefit whichever big company had the right connections to win the bid) and use the extra money that the government now has to fund new-deal style massive job-creating projects |
| 04:45.08 | jonwil | Plenty of projects the US could spend money on that would create real jobs for real Americans right now |
| 04:45.34 | jonwil | if they stpped spending money on things they dont need (like expensive new toys for the military that do nothing except line the pockets of defense contractors) |
| 04:46.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just rolling on the floor laughing my ass off when I watch a nations that tries to export democracy to the world (with rifles and bombs if needed) now performs like... I dunno a good word to describe what's going on but it's not exactly any form of democracy |
| 04:47.58 | jonwil | A lot of it has to do with propaganda |
| 04:48.34 | jonwil | Rupert Murdoch and his Fox empire have a propaganda machine that makes the Nazi propaganda under Goebbels seem pathetic by comparison |
| 04:48.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 04:48.55 | jonwil | His newspapers are barely fit for wrapping fish & chips in, let alone actually reading |
| 04:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I don't ever ready or listen to any of that stuff |
| 04:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | read |
| 04:49.25 | jonwil | I dont either |
| 04:49.48 | jonwil | Too bad he part-owns the only Pay TV operation in Australia |
| 04:50.06 | jonwil | The other owner is just as evil (Telstra, the formerly government-owned and still incumbent telco) |
| 04:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me from my supposedly relatively neutral unbiased european news it looks like tea party wants to stop obama care like they always did (somthing that's not really understood here in europe at all, where we think the society should take care about every member, and obama care looks quite natural to us, we basically always had that) - and now tea party took whole government institutions and their employees as hostages |
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| 04:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I'm terribly poorly informed, then sorry |
| 04:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I admit I haven't read either obama care law texts nor the tea party webpage |
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| 05:15.33 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: actually, obamacare isn't even close to what's normal for europeans |
| 05:15.49 | kerio | but it's a step in the right direction, or something |
| 05:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, still feels like third world to us, but it's at least a little step in right direction aiui |
| 05:16.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, how did we even find same words? :-) |
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| 08:00.02 | tzafrir_laptop | I'm trying to figure out what the software on neo900 should be: |
| 08:00.35 | tzafrir_laptop | Should it run basically the same software included in maemo 5? |
| 08:01.05 | tzafrir_laptop | Or a newer version based on Debian Stable / Linaro with a more recent kernel? |
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| 08:05.29 | kolp | tzafrir_laptop: As far as I understand, the idea is to be able to port maemo so that it remains binary compatible |
| 08:06.01 | kolp | You'd be able to run anything you can run on the N900, unless it depends specifically on Neo900 hardware bits |
| 08:06.02 | tzafrir_laptop | Hmm... this is a rather ancient stack by now |
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| 08:06.45 | tzafrir_laptop | One minor issue I had recently: the timezone defenitions are part of the package libc6 in maemo |
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| 08:07.02 | kolp | Updates / rebasing are parallel projects |
| 08:07.11 | tzafrir_laptop | Whereas in recent Debian they are in a separate package, tzdata. This makes them trivial to upgrade |
| 08:07.46 | kolp | Thing susch as |
| 08:08.21 | kolp | s/Thing susch as /Such things should be adressed in e.g. CSSU and are independent of the porting of maemo to the Neo900 |
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| 10:19.15 | int_ua | What's the key for Delete in the Xephyr under SDK? |
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| 10:45.34 | int_ua | What's the status if Red Pill mode? |
| 10:45.41 | int_ua | I cannot activate it in SDK |
| 10:47.48 | int_ua | okay, it doesn't exist anymore. But what about downloading packages from download.maemo.nokia.com? |
| 10:49.57 | int_ua | I tried to install extkbd because there's not Delete neither Backspace are functional |
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| 10:50.44 | int_ua | Anyone here with the SDK in VM? |
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| 13:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | moinmoin |
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| 13:41.17 | meemoe | moin |
| 13:42.28 | meemoe | Has anybody else experienced problems receiving emails with modest imap after /home had run full once? |
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| 13:48.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't surprise me |
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| 13:53.12 | meemoe | i know, i'm sorry, too. |
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| 13:56.52 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/01/its_alive_nokia_breathes_lightning_into_lumia_925/ |
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| 14:09.06 | meemoe | Deleting and re-creating the account helped. |
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| 15:47.56 | int_ua | Hi. I'm currently digging the ssh-status and having problem with sudo. It just doesn't work in the sdk chroot. Any way to fix that? |
| 15:50.28 | thedead1440 | lol while reading the backlog for a moment i thought DocScrutinizer05 started arguing with himself (doc|home) only to realize it was actually 2 different people later... too many docs in a chan confuse people :D |
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| 15:58.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | only doc.*zer is the real one :-) |
| 15:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's the only regex that gives me highlight |
| 15:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | (well, nit really, there's also docsc.*) |
| 16:03.24 | thedead1440 | haha |
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| 16:26.37 | int_ua | Ok, I've replaced the sudo binary with sh script that contains fakeroot $@ |
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| 17:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon_: pal: interested in porting another driver to fremantle KP? http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?topic=601.0 ECI headset multibutton |
| 17:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | pali^^^ |
| 17:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 schematics already labeled the 3 wires "ECI" |
| 17:25.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/ohm-plugins-misc/commit/5a3e156709f24eeb8fba5a313035dd8eb4d6ac4d |
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| 17:29.10 | lastaid | hello there :) |
| 17:30.11 | lastaid | i am currently working on a n900 client for the metawatch, and i want to know if there is any way i can intercept notifications |
| 17:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon_: |
| 17:31.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll /sys/devices/platform/ECI* |
| 17:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls: Zugriff auf /sys/devices/platform/ECI* nicht möglich: No such file or directory |
| 17:31.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/ohm-plugins-misc/source/c2ef14d5561af0ff792cead9e531249b72bdbc49:plugins/accessories/wired.c#L51 |
| 17:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | lastaid: which notifications? |
| 17:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically no, for the general notification there's no way to intercept it afaik |
| 17:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can monitor for notification signals on dbus |
| 17:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a lot of dirty hacking you even might be able to write some "interceptor" when you create an own dedicated dbus-bus (besides session and system bus) and a intercepting bridge |
| 17:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | lastaid: prolly you need to elaborate on what exactly you want to do |
| 17:36.59 | lastaid | ok |
| 17:37.07 | lastaid | i am writing a python scrypt |
| 17:37.40 | lastaid | that uses part of the client.py from n900 notify, it listens for a dbus signal signaling an incoming call or an sms |
| 17:37.46 | lastaid | but thats the limitation of that |
| 17:37.55 | lastaid | i want to get more messages, like skype and gtalk |
| 17:38.18 | lastaid | by getting all notifications as an event, i can pipe those to my other script that connects to my smartwatch |
| 17:38.22 | lastaid | and just display those |
| 17:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, so your question is? |
| 17:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | "how to detect inbound skype calls"? |
| 17:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | both SMS and inbound calls of any origin/transport are visible on dbus as signals/messages |
| 17:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'd dare to say the difference between GSM and skype/voip inbound calls is marginal on that level |
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| 17:41.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably just the "account" value in dbus message differs |
| 17:43.08 | lastaid | mh ... |
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| 17:43.34 | lastaid | my primary question is if i can tap into the notification bus |
| 17:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea about client.py though |
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| 17:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is no notification bus, there are messages on session dbus |
| 17:44.10 | lastaid | ok |
| 17:44.25 | lastaid | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus |
| 17:44.32 | lastaid | where exactly? |
| 17:44.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 17:44.57 | lastaid | :d |
| 17:45.13 | lastaid | i am looking through this all day, but the documentation is scarse |
| 17:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I dunno dbus msgs by heart. I suggest you use dbus-monitor and find out by yourself |
| 17:45.35 | lastaid | dbus mo nitor? |
| 17:45.40 | lastaid | ? |
| 17:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# dbus-monitor --help |
| 17:46.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Usage: dbus-monitor [--system | --session] [--monitor | --profile ] [watch expressions] |
| 17:47.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus#com.nokia.csd.Call |
| 17:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>...l status, get notified about calls etc) << |
| 17:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | for SIP and Skype this might differ |
| 17:48.48 | lastaid | jepp |
| 17:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the message is probably the same |
| 17:49.01 | lastaid | thanks, was not aware of that program |
| 17:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | since after all the same receiver acts identically on SIP and GSM inbound calls |
| 17:49.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | (receiver as in "destination" of dbus) |
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| 17:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly suggest you write a typical onbound-call session via dbus-monitor to a file, for all types of inbound events you're interested in, then have a meditation on it for 1..2h and spot the messages you can use to trigger whatever you are interested in |
| 17:51.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | inbound* |
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| 17:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are apps that act on inbound SMS vith a certain content, so those apps will most definitely listen to some SMS inbound event |
| 17:53.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are also apps that change ringtone for certain specific contact, so those apps will definitely listen to inbound-call event and analyze the caller number attached to that event's dbus data payload |
| 17:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in the end there is maemo-dialer that invariably pops up for any inbound voice call afaik |
| 17:55.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | it also listens to dbus signals and acts on them |
| 17:57.19 | lastaid | i got tap on the dbus now ^^ |
| 17:58.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it even acts on inbound Supplementary Service Codes and USSD responses as well, which is hard to intercept and stop. Not exactly always what you want to see when you e.g. write an app that sends "*100#" to query your account and then wants to display that account balance in a dedicated GUI rather than have dialer pop up and present the "raw" response text. You can find a ticket in b.m.o about the missing way to avoid dialer |
| 17:58.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | popping up, aka "intercept that dbus signal" |
| 17:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty obvious and undisputed API design flaw |
| 18:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | "WONTFIX" ;-P |
| 18:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | lastaid: most likely your signals will show up on session bus, but I can't guarantee it. So you probably should dbus-monitor both session and system bus |
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| 18:09.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's a pretty interesting and arguable question whether an inbound call is owned by system or by session (and when by session then by which user's session). Even more funny to discuss than consolekit and the question who owns camera or audio |
| 18:09.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* on maemo they decided that calls are a session thing |
| 18:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW owned by user who logged in |
| 18:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | which makes some sense, regarding that user "logs in" by SIM PIN |
| 18:10.57 | ruskie | hmm anyone tried a sailfish or a tizien device yet? |
| 18:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, some jolla employees |
| 18:11.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard some are using a jolla sailfish device as their daily phone |
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| 21:22.48 | dos1 | OT: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Secret-3G-Radio-in-Every-Intel-vPro-CPU-Could-Steal-Your-Ideas-at-Any-Time-385194.shtml |
| 21:23.28 | dos1 | is that even possible? how could that be usable without proper antenna? |
| 21:25.13 | dos1 | wouldn't it be extremely easy to detect? |
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| 21:30.02 | pdanek | http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-vpro-core-i7,12353.html |
| 21:30.28 | pdanek | Previous versions of Intel Anti-Theft Technology enabled authorized IT or service personnel to send a coded "poison pill" over the Internet to completely disable a lost or stolen computer and help prevent access to its encrypted data and deter theft. New Intel AT 3.0 enables the poison pill to be sent as an encrypted, authenticated SMS message by an authorized administrator over a 3G cellular network as well within moments after a missing laptop is tur |
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| 21:34.55 | dos1 | pdanek: but I'd guess it that applies only to devices with 3g modem integrated |
| 21:35.05 | dos1 | some netbooks or similar stuff |
| 21:35.28 | dos1 | cpu with 3g communication seems crazy |
| 21:38.25 | pdanek | For me, it's that simple, Intel Anti-Theft Technology = reason why there is 3G radio chip. |
| 21:39.22 | pdanek | As it's written in link I sent above: Intel Anti-Theft Technology Ver. 3.0 (AT 3.0), included on all 2nd generation Intel Core and Core vPro processors. |
| 21:39.43 | dos1 | pdanek: well, I don't care about the reason |
| 21:39.47 | pdanek | So it's included in CPU. |
| 21:39.52 | dos1 | I care about technical aspects |
| 21:40.31 | pdanek | Don't worry, NSA isn't going to take over your laptop. :) |
| 21:40.53 | pdanek | But you are right |
| 21:40.57 | pdanek | it's stranhe w/o antenna |
| 21:44.05 | dos1 | not only that - 3g needs registration to the bts |
| 21:45.05 | dos1 | and such feature would need cooperation of all carieers on the world |
| 21:45.26 | dos1 | (i don't see "works only in usa" anywhere) |
| 21:45.59 | dos1 | and hell, I have speakers near the laptop |
| 21:46.26 | dos1 | I can hear very clearly if my mobile phone is near them :P |
| 21:47.38 | dos1 | such 3g modem can't get any sms if it's not associated with any base station, and I never heard it associating :P |
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| 22:13.42 | pdanek | you're right |
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| 22:38.13 | okias | Hey guys, I noticed neo900 project. Did you looked at Jolla specs? Why can't be used Jolla HW setup for n900? |
| 22:39.42 | okias | why not join forces with jolla.. |
| 22:41.42 | psycho_oreos | Jolla's specs initially were somewhat quite vague. I guess that may have caused Neo900 to go quite a different path, besides both groups now have completely different approaches. |
| 22:43.15 | okias | I'm afraid that n900 (maemo) model is not enough these days to bring developers make apps :( it needs some marketing.. (at least that Jolla have) |
| 22:43.22 | dos1 | well, jolla is just another commercial device |
| 22:43.38 | okias | dos1: it's based on opensource.. so.. |
| 22:43.42 | dos1 | i mean, jolla device, not jolla itself :) |
| 22:43.49 | dos1 | okias: well, so is android. and what? |
| 22:44.30 | dos1 | neo900 is open, hackable design in both software and hardware |
| 22:44.46 | dos1 | continuing openmoko and openphoenux path in this regard |
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| 22:46.04 | pdanek | neo900 is great initiative but it will never attract mass market |
| 22:46.30 | pdanek | it will be hackable gadget like OpenMoko Freerunner was. |
| 22:46.31 | okias | pdanek: :( yeah |
| 22:46.31 | dos1 | probably |
| 22:46.34 | psycho_oreos | Nor would Jolla make a nice impact in the already packed handheld market. |
| 22:46.46 | dos1 | fortunately, it's not meant to be mass market device anyway |
| 22:47.01 | okias | dos1: and if you remember how openmoko ended (at least in czech republic, everyone was happy when it was released... but usability ?? :D not too much ) |
| 22:47.08 | pdanek | well Jolla already reached 50 000 preorder registrations |
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| 22:47.25 | pdanek | and they have a big focus for Chinese market |
| 22:47.30 | dos1 | okias: yes, and we took the lession from that |
| 22:47.52 | dos1 | okias: that's why neo900 project is based on both gta04 and maemo |
| 22:47.55 | okias | dos1: I like hackable things, but you have to spread it into world |
| 22:48.10 | pdanek | Yea, OpenMoko is legend in Czech, still people are excited about it on every LinuxAlt session in Brno :D |
| 22:48.12 | okias | dos1: there need to be normal "android-like" apps too |
| 22:48.20 | psycho_oreos | Android iinm sees 500,000 activation. So what? Jolla still remains niche, at the end of the day. |
| 22:48.22 | okias | pdanek: as n900 :D |
| 22:48.24 | dos1 | so from both sw and hw sides we have some good ground to base on |
| 22:48.29 | dos1 | something that openmoko was clearly missing |
| 22:48.31 | wmarone | psycho_oreos: everyone is niche at the start |
| 22:48.59 | okias | dos1: well, sw is little bit deprecated (as I see in my n900 with cssu) |
| 22:49.18 | psycho_oreos | wmarone, yeah but I wouldn't suspect Jolla to pick up the trend amongst the market where people would either prefer android or iOS. |
| 22:49.27 | wmarone | prefer? |
| 22:49.36 | wmarone | or simply choose them because they are the options available? |
| 22:49.37 | dos1 | okias: but it's there, and it's pretty stable |
| 22:49.45 | dos1 | and well, this is open platform |
| 22:49.48 | pdanek | Sailfish is actually very modern & up-to-date OS. |
| 22:49.51 | okias | dos1: well, in that.. you have right |
| 22:49.57 | pdanek | And HW-wise, it's "enough." |
| 22:50.07 | psycho_oreos | No, it's not only because of the options available but because of many factors including their peers and their preferences. |
| 22:50.08 | dos1 | so no one is limited by any means to just one right OS |
| 22:50.52 | okias | dos1: well, it just need big community (or company) support |
| 22:51.09 | dos1 | okias: small steps first |
| 22:51.28 | dos1 | something needs to be done before big community or company support can be reached |
| 22:51.41 | okias | dos1: well, company support it's own product |
| 22:51.41 | dos1 | and I believe Neo900 is exactly this "something" |
| 22:51.55 | dos1 | okias: I mean, "big company" |
| 22:52.27 | psycho_oreos | If one has an issue with say for example on android, they could ask maybe their next door neighbour who might just happen to own something powered by android. If it was running maemo even for instance, there's very little support in reality. Thereby it forces people to seek support like online where there may find people sharing similar interests. |
| 22:52.43 | dos1 | let's buy Neo900 as crazy and make Goldelico very big company, so it'll be able to produce more amazing stuff for us! :) |
| 22:53.16 | dos1 | well |
| 22:53.32 | okias | dos1: well, for good selling product you need combination good hw+sw... then if you compare goals of neo900(mid-hw)+maemo(x11) vs jolla(high-hw)+jolla(wayland based).. |
| 22:54.00 | okias | and Jolla will have it hard anyway |
| 22:54.08 | dos1 | okias: and? jolla device is not interesting for me at all |
| 22:54.16 | okias | dos1: why not? |
| 22:54.26 | pdanek | Neo900 will never become real competitor to Jolla. |
| 22:54.39 | dos1 | unless it'll be as open as freerunner, gta04 or neo900 |
| 22:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | not on our agenda :-) |
| 22:54.52 | okias | dos1: I hope it will be |
| 22:54.55 | RiD | I am with you dos1 |
| 22:55.01 | RiD | i have no interest at jolla |
| 22:55.01 | dos1 | looks like it won't |
| 22:55.09 | okias | dos1: why? |
| 22:55.14 | dos1 | if it will, I'll support them with my whole heart :P |
| 22:55.46 | psycho_oreos | I'm certain Neo900's goal was to never dominate let alone compete with Jolla. If you look at it from an average Joe's point of view, Neo900 has hardware keyboard and is basically living off the fame of N900, Jolla is more like n9 and would probably attract those who liked n9's style. |
| 22:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | why compete when you can buy ;-P |
| 22:56.01 | dos1 | okias: it doesn't even look like their own OS will be 100% free |
| 22:56.29 | pdanek | Jolla is most probably going to have other-half HW keyboard as well |
| 22:56.42 | pdanek | I think most of N900 users, including me, will just buy Jolla |
| 22:56.47 | psycho_oreos | The keyword there is: "probably". |
| 22:56.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I don't see that yet |
| 22:56.49 | pdanek | if they didn't switch to Android yet |
| 22:56.50 | psycho_oreos | Don't forget that. |
| 22:57.13 | psycho_oreos | So far videos of Jolla released has not demonstrated hardware keyboard. |
| 22:57.17 | pdanek | small portion of people who had N900 + OpenMoko guys, will go for Neo900 |
| 22:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I never will go for crappy clumsy c-ts |
| 22:57.25 | pdanek | ok, most probably |
| 22:57.26 | RiD | does jolla even support landscape? |
| 22:57.29 | RiD | apart from maybe videos and games |
| 22:57.47 | dos1 | pdanek: well, why do you think we aim for selling 200-300 devices? :) |
| 22:57.56 | psycho_oreos | Nobody also knows what sort of package management, application ecology, etc is like for Jolla. |
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| 22:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | N9 never been a pocket computer, unlike N900 |
| 22:58.13 | dos1 | we could assume we'll sell 10 000 of them and announce prices based on that assumption from the beginning |
| 22:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | jolla will be the next N9 |
| 22:58.35 | dos1 | but we're not doing that |
| 22:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia NIT series ended with N900 |
| 22:59.04 | RiD | who knows what will happen in 2018 if nokia doesn't go complete bankrupt |
| 22:59.17 | RiD | Nokia HAL9000 |
| 22:59.21 | dos1 | we're perfectly aware about who our target consumer is |
| 22:59.34 | psycho_oreos | RiD, running windows 8 *snickers* |
| 23:00.10 | RiD | ha I just tried some nokia windows 8 phone today |
| 23:00.11 | dos1 | N900 lovers + Openmoko lovers + "I'd buy GTA04 if it had hw keyboard" guys |
| 23:00.14 | RiD | boring |
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| 23:00.46 | dos1 | Neo900 is created mainly for those groups in mind |
| 23:00.55 | okias | so, at least in neo900, will be normal (uncrippled) apt-get ? |
| 23:01.06 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 23:01.10 | psycho_oreos | To be frank nokia sold off their mobile platform branch already to microsoft in a non-exclusive mutual deal. I wouldn't be surprised when the contract ends, nokia would have all these windows developers and their fans looking forward to the next iteration of their mobile platform (let alone if the company still exists). |
| 23:01.22 | dos1 | of course anyone else is welcomed :) but we don't expect anyone else to go crazy about neo900 |
| 23:01.46 | okias | and wayland replacement of x11 would be nice :) |
| 23:01.57 | dos1 | okias: it's an open platform, just like PC |
| 23:02.09 | dos1 | okias: you're free to install full Debian GNU/Linux on it |
| 23:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | okias: no, there will be no OS at all "in Neo900" |
| 23:02.28 | okias | dos1: as we both know, it will be damn hard to use it as phone |
| 23:02.39 | dos1 | there's FSO in Debian repo, so it should be even usable as a phone |
| 23:02.51 | pdanek1 | Look at OpenMoko Freerunner I know people who were excited for it, playing with it etc. |
| 23:02.51 | pdanek1 | But it was never fully usable device, it was rather a toy. So nobody should expect fully-polished device for end-user experience. |
| 23:03.01 | dos1 | there were some people using Debian on Freerunner as their main phones |
| 23:03.15 | okias | dos1: I met them :P it was funny |
| 23:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | pdanek1: so what? |
| 23:03.48 | dos1 | pdanek1: Neo900 should be just as polished as N900 was |
| 23:03.50 | psycho_oreos | At the end of the day, you choose what you want to use. Whether you like some commercially made platform and apps then you can get Jolla, otherwise there's Openmoko's Neo900. |
| 23:03.52 | pdanek1 | DocScrutinizer05: my net is dropping, my sentences are getting lost in context, forget it :D |
| 23:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I used OM FR for my main and only daily phone for a year |
| 23:04.13 | dos1 | I'm using OM FR for my main and only daily phone for five years |
| 23:04.28 | psycho_oreos | There's never a need to be nitpicky about either one or both those platforms, they both have different aims. |
| 23:04.29 | dos1 | with small break for N900 |
| 23:04.34 | RiD | i'm... using N900 for my main and only daily phone for 3 years 4 months |
| 23:04.36 | pdanek1 | dos1: ou! |
| 23:05.04 | okias | psycho_oreos: yeah, but Jolla has much more powerfull hw |
| 23:05.29 | dos1 | psycho_oreos: +1 |
| 23:05.30 | okias | psycho_oreos: you know, sometimes you need crack some wpa on your phone :P |
| 23:05.42 | psycho_oreos | okias, again you're comparing two different perspectives which I was pointing out earlier that it was the wrong idea. |
| 23:05.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | okias: really? |
| 23:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.jollausers.com/2013/09/jollaspex |
| 23:06.33 | okias | DocScrutinizer05: with n900 I never tried :P but it would be nice |
| 23:06.51 | psycho_oreos | okias, WPA is not crackable in the near future if one has enforced proper security measures. Don't even go onto WPA cracking for handheld's, it'll take you years. |
| 23:07.06 | RiD | decades |
| 23:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | WPA is not cracked yet |
| 23:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither on handheld nor on a grid |
| 23:07.52 | okias | .. okey, wrong word... bruteforcing |
| 23:07.56 | psycho_oreos | Some people think it is, though there are some chinks within WPA, notably WPS and maybe TKIP implementation. Though it is still remotely impossible to crack it with virtually any handheld. |
| 23:08.02 | okias | well, I should just say WEP |
| 23:08.20 | psycho_oreos | N900 already can break WEP, WEP is old and is getting phased out. |
| 23:08.22 | dos1 | WEP should be crackable in matter of seconds even on Freerunner :) |
| 23:08.32 | okias | i knowwww :D |
| 23:08.42 | okias | that's why I said wpa :P |
| 23:08.43 | RiD | no one uses WEP anymore |
| 23:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway completely missing the point |
| 23:08.50 | psycho_oreos | If you want to live in the past and think that everyone still uses WEP, then by all means go ahead. |
| 23:08.50 | pdanek1 | They do! |
| 23:08.52 | okias | RiD: .... |
| 23:09.08 | RiD | okias: .... |
| 23:09.11 | okias | RiD: you'll be suprised.. thanks god for these sharing people :D |
| 23:09.13 | ecc3g | I'm using WEP... on my N900 MHS... ouch... |
| 23:09.15 | dos1 | funny unrelated note: "free" in Polish is "wolny", which has also different meaning: slow |
| 23:09.32 | psycho_oreos | There are some companies that still uses WEP with their legacy products. Though a security-savvy person would instantly force WPA. |
| 23:09.43 | pdanek1 | yes, just now connected to one WEP wifi in nearby flat |
| 23:09.46 | dos1 | Freerunner is pretty funny name for GTA02 when taking that into account :) |
| 23:10.15 | pdanek1 | WEP is like public wifi :D for some people |
| 23:10.41 | psycho_oreos | People in my neighbour all use WPA, I'd have to get some huge antenna to even pick up a remote WEP AP> |
| 23:10.56 | pdanek1 | so I'm just fortunate :D |
| 23:11.09 | okias | psycho_oreos: rather try sneak in with ethernet cable and enter user admin, pass admin >D |
| 23:11.11 | okias | :D |
| 23:11.19 | okias | then read WPA password :D |
| 23:11.23 | RiD | ^ |
| 23:11.29 | psycho_oreos | :p |
| 23:11.29 | RiD | that's how I did for my neighbour |
| 23:11.31 | psycho_oreos | brb |
| 23:14.49 | pdanek1 | Is it immoral to use neighbour's WEP Wi-fi for more than half year? Nice and stable 10mbit, gratis. |
| 23:15.35 | pdanek1 | Maybe I should leave them a chocolate in front of door when I will leave my current rented flat, with a message to change their WEP. |
| 23:22.39 | RiD | "wep? what is wep?" |
| 23:24.06 | *** join/#maemo okias (~okias@berger.cust.centro-net.cz) |
| 23:24.18 | okias | divVerent: ping, you tried compile mpv on maemo? |
| 23:36.25 | okias | and dont forget to make neo900 multipath tcp enabled :P |
| 23:41.06 | *** join/#maemo okias (~okias@berger.cust.centro-net.cz) |
| 23:43.57 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 23:48.36 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-137-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |