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| 10:45.26 | DaReaper | The Neo900's price is way too costly |
| 10:45.30 | DaReaper | if the raspberry pi can cost so less |
| 10:45.41 | DaReaper | I wonder why would 300 Euro be the minimum price |
| 10:45.53 | DaReaper | it should probably be around inside 100 Euros |
| 10:46.13 | jon_y | DaReaper: only if you can sell 1 million on launch day |
| 10:46.52 | DaReaper | That would be a really bad marketing strategy if you even thought of the 1 Million milestone |
| 10:46.53 | jon_y | I doubt Neo900 can do that without any massive propaganda efforts |
| 10:47.25 | Wizzup | I smell a troll |
| 10:47.31 | jon_y | not to mention it lacks the political weight to break into carrier controlled networks |
| 10:48.30 | DaReaper | Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base. |
| 10:49.38 | jon_y | DaReaper: :business: |
| 10:50.00 | jon_y | no one is going to do low quantity productions |
| 10:50.12 | kerio | DaReaper: on the other hand, that's pretty much how much it'll cost to make |
| 10:50.32 | jon_y | economies of scale hardly has any effect here |
| 10:50.40 | kerio | jon_y: well |
| 10:50.45 | kerio | it's precisely that effect |
| 10:51.20 | DaReaper | @Kerio there should be an open petition as to disclosure of the components price and the labor charges before coming to a conclusion of that sort |
| 10:51.25 | jon_y | kerio: we do have the numbers to make manufacturers happy? |
| 10:51.35 | kerio | of course not |
| 10:51.41 | kerio | no scale, no economy |
| 10:51.47 | jon_y | yeah, precisely |
| 10:52.05 | DaReaper | Usually I'd agree on the bumper price at the start of the launch and a gradual decrease to build brand image |
| 10:52.13 | jon_y | DaReaper: the manufacturers tell you NOPE |
| 10:52.25 | kerio | yeah |
| 10:52.37 | kerio | assuming you have a capital and a brand image to build |
| 10:52.38 | jon_y | raspberry pi too had its fair share of problems |
| 10:52.49 | DaReaper | but then a base of 300 Euro gives really hazy picture of the pricing strategy here |
| 10:52.58 | jon_y | damn near impossible to get anybody to build it |
| 10:53.09 | DaReaper | But then problems are a part of business and they're doing still well with their current price |
| 10:53.27 | kerio | sheevaplug > rpi |
| 10:53.46 | jon_y | yeah well, these things hardly have any manufacturers picking them up |
| 10:54.18 | jon_y | I don't think most manufacturers would even bat an eye if the profit margin is so low |
| 10:54.50 | jon_y | well, Chinese factories might pick it up |
| 10:55.44 | DaReaper | Well if the Chinese can do it like you're saying, then if the manufacturers plan to price more despite them already achieving the goal of profit.. it's overpricing |
| 10:56.03 | DaReaper | and by Chinese it's not always bad quality as the image has sparkled. |
| 10:57.58 | jon_y | DaReaper: chinese are willing to do it if you order 1 billion units |
| 10:58.12 | jon_y | they don't mind ultra low margins |
| 10:58.19 | jon_y | as long as numbers make up for it |
| 10:59.44 | DaReaper | Usually the Chinese weren't expecting china phones to be sold elsewhere in the world at the start, they didn't have a 1 Billion unit to be sold goal set. It was how they expanded into the market. |
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| 10:59.57 | DaReaper | I'm taking china phones as an example to this. |
| 11:00.14 | jon_y | sure, if you don't mind Neo900 sold in China only :) |
| 11:00.45 | jon_y | you'd have to compete with the other million android phones |
| 11:02.46 | jon_y | DaReaper: china phones are mostly variations of each other |
| 11:02.50 | DaReaper | Neo900 has a good open market and it has realized the needs of the people, they've got the hardware requirements. But then I fear if they were to be geographically focused, they'd not be targeting the large customer base. Cause those who've used the N900 would have a good idea of this. |
| 11:02.53 | jon_y | rather than completely new builds |
| 11:03.23 | jon_y | doing something completely new like the Neo900 has enormous setup costs |
| 11:04.04 | jon_y | basically, you give the specs and they design it for you |
| 11:04.21 | DaReaper | Also, considering China phones... Neo900 can do the very same.. but ofcourse the target customers would only increase over time once they realize it's potential. |
| 11:04.50 | jon_y | that is a very very optimistic way of thinking |
| 11:04.54 | DaReaper | Isn't this based on the gta04? |
| 11:05.09 | jon_y | yes, with some modifications iirc |
| 11:05.58 | DaReaper | Hmm okay, so basically they have the blueprint of this and also gta04 has been kind of a prototype base for it to start with |
| 11:06.38 | DaReaper | So I wonder if the manufacturing costs would be high considering the product is already existent and is aware of the market and should have learnt of it by now. |
| 11:08.26 | DaReaper | But ofcourse this is just my personal opinion |
| 11:09.07 | DaReaper | was kind of uncomfortable after I noticed the prices on the poll. |
| 11:09.20 | kerio | uncomfortable with what? |
| 11:09.32 | DaReaper | The prices. |
| 11:09.44 | kerio | well do you own a production facility? |
| 11:10.23 | kerio | or know of a way to get a better price |
| 11:10.24 | DaReaper | No. |
| 11:10.39 | kerio | do you think that there's malice behind that price? |
| 11:10.40 | DaReaper | I could have ideas, might voice it there. |
| 11:11.09 | kerio | do you think that there's incompetence, and are able to provide a better alternative? |
| 11:11.13 | DaReaper | No my thoughts weren't directed to anything of that sort. |
| 11:11.41 | dos1 | DaReaper: "Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base." |
| 11:11.50 | DaReaper | No. |
| 11:11.51 | jon_y | I'd be willing to pay 700 Euros too, if my salary was in Euros |
| 11:11.52 | dos1 | those are the production costs in small quantities |
| 11:12.11 | kerio | yes, it would be better if it was a lot cheaper |
| 11:12.17 | kerio | but as it stands, it's not possible |
| 11:12.23 | dos1 | there's no way to make it cheaper without investing lots of money in it which you may never see again, because of small target niche |
| 11:12.56 | dos1 | to make it cheaper, you have to manufacture thousands or even milions of them in advance |
| 11:13.36 | DaReaper | Okay, but it would still depend on how you plan those investments |
| 11:13.55 | dos1 | you need to actually find someone with that money |
| 11:14.04 | DaReaper | The target could be expanded and this depends on the price and in turn if you can smartly invest it can be reduced. |
| 11:14.12 | dos1 | "can be" - sure it can |
| 11:14.28 | jon_y | so did all the other niche Linux phones |
| 11:14.35 | dos1 | if you have millions euros to spend on R&D, marketing, PR and relations with carieers |
| 11:14.41 | jon_y | you don't see manufacturers jumping up and down to build them |
| 11:14.56 | jon_y | or fanboys everywhere waiting in line |
| 11:15.10 | dos1 | unless we get thousands of preorders in advance, we *don't* have that money |
| 11:15.38 | DaReaper | Yes, but that brings in the factor of what system software it runs on |
| 11:16.12 | dos1 | DaReaper: you're free to invest your milions into Neo900 development |
| 11:16.30 | dos1 | I'll be happy to see it and future projects like that dominating the mobile market |
| 11:16.31 | jon_y | how do you judge the factor if there are none to begin with? |
| 11:16.46 | DaReaper | Okay, so does there stand a chance where if there were more preorders unlike the 1 Billion goal set, there could be a reduction in price? |
| 11:16.49 | jon_y | right now, there are no Neo900 units for customers to feedback on |
| 11:17.10 | jon_y | sure, if manufacturers are happy to do so to ramp up numbers |
| 11:17.31 | jon_y | you promise them 1billion more units if they can reduce price |
| 11:17.46 | jon_y | I'm sure they'd be happy to make another billion if it means more money for them |
| 11:18.16 | dos1 | prices can be reduced when there'll be interest on billion level |
| 11:18.16 | DaReaper | I couldn't judge the factor with none available but then you could categorize the best needed based on the target audience. |
| 11:18.55 | dos1 | sure, we can say "it will cost 100 EUR, we just need 1 billion preorders!" |
| 11:19.15 | jon_y | DaReaper: not going to work if you only have that big of an audience |
| 11:19.16 | DaReaper | What if maybe, a marketing agenda was created to have a cheap device just like rpi does? |
| 11:19.20 | dos1 | but really? will we get 1 billion preorders? |
| 11:19.32 | DaReaper | could there be a possibility then maybe without expecting 1 billion preorders you'd still have a lower price |
| 11:19.39 | jon_y | no |
| 11:19.44 | kerio | ok, i'll preorder 900 millions |
| 11:19.46 | jon_y | nobody has the money for the setup |
| 11:19.53 | dos1 | and what then? "sorry, it will cost 600 EUR cause there's not enough interest" |
| 11:20.06 | DaReaper | okay right, so there's no large investment available okay |
| 11:20.06 | dos1 | and then 95% of preorders will be canceled |
| 11:20.08 | dos1 | and project failed |
| 11:20.12 | dos1 | yay |
| 11:20.36 | jon_y | good job guys |
| 11:20.38 | kerio | DaReaper: so far, your only argument is "well maybe it could've been made cheaper somehow" |
| 11:20.54 | dos1 | it *will* be cheaper, if only there'll be enough interest |
| 11:21.34 | dos1 | we won't seel it for 700 EUR when there'll be 10k preorders |
| 11:21.35 | jon_y | which is really a chicken and egg problem unless you have BIG MONEY to sink into advertisement |
| 11:21.43 | dos1 | s/seel/sell/ |
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| 11:23.29 | dos1 | but we won't promise pie in the sky from start, just to fail to fulfil this promise later |
| 11:23.54 | dos1 | ubuntu edge failed their fundraising campain |
| 11:24.46 | dos1 | so I wouldn't set hopes so high for neo900 fundraising abilities in this regard |
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| 11:25.38 | DaReaper | To be honest I wasn't arguing or setting up an argument, I just thought there should have been a reason for the hefty pricing initially and I got to know it. I usually get to hear "Good job guys" after a debate's been won and concluded xD |
| 11:26.21 | DaReaper | But then I'm was of the perspective that maybe the price could be reduced. It's fine anyways. Thanks for solving my query. |
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| 11:46.44 | hahlo | peaceful again |
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| 12:00.54 | psycho_oreos | skims through the chat buffer, notices something interesting. Reads from start till end and was amazed someone else had similar sort of thing as he did. :o |
| 12:01.11 | psycho_oreos | So much for "six degrees of separation.". |
| 12:01.52 | jon_y | what did you do, psycho_oreos? |
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| 12:03.46 | psycho_oreos | jon_y, I didn't do anything. When I read about the prices of Neo900 that people were willing to pay and how much it will cost. I was thinking about potentially outsourcing the work to Chinese. I started thinking more of pros and cons but before I wanted to make a reply (on that thread), I decided to not go ahead with my thought as it may enrage some hardware engineers/designers. |
| 12:05.12 | psycho_oreos | I had that sort of idea weeks ago and then all of the sudden whilst I'm in other channel, the very same topic cropped up behind my back. |
| 12:06.21 | jon_y | well, it isn't very practical to push it to the Chinese if you have a custome design without big money incentives |
| 12:08.35 | dos1 | BTW. one of the great things in GTA04 manufacturing process that Neo900 will inherit is that it's produced in proper working conditions |
| 12:08.51 | dos1 | it's manufactured in Bavaria, Germany |
| 12:09.29 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I wasn't thinking about that but more-so on the fact that when N900 existed, the Chinese wanted to create a knock-off clone of the N900. Obviously that wasn't a success but if let's say that this new design (we at maemo.org and openmoko.org) have been collaborating on a new device that supersedes N900. We will provide you schematics, interested? |
| 12:09.37 | dos1 | no children are harmed during production of OpenPhoenux phones |
| 12:09.40 | psycho_oreos | I mean that might somewhat persuade them a little. |
| 12:10.14 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that's the other thing that basically stopped me wanting to respond to that thread with my ideas. |
| 12:10.24 | dos1 | I think that's good thing that goes really well with the spirit of freedom in this project |
| 12:10.40 | jon_y | dos1: so when it's out, how do I go about ordering it? |
| 12:11.14 | dos1 | jon_y: probably somewhat similar to current GTA04 - https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 |
| 12:11.46 | jon_y | does it do international orders? |
| 12:11.57 | dos1 | yup |
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| 12:12.17 | jon_y | how do I look up shipment costs? |
| 12:12.26 | dos1 | maybe there'll be some resellers |
| 12:12.49 | dos1 | but it's too early to say for sure |
| 12:13.10 | jon_y | hmm ok |
| 12:13.18 | psycho_oreos | The other thing is that if we restrict it to manufacture strictly at .de. We may also impede on the amount of actual sales. Though of course it's not like as if I have some sort of crystal glass to look into the future and see the outcome of Neo900. |
| 12:13.26 | jon_y | dos1: will be out for Christmas? :) |
| 12:13.49 | psycho_oreos | Sure the quality in .de is no doubt perfect and all but apart from costs of labour and such may amount to lower sales. |
| 12:13.58 | dos1 | jon_y: this year? nope |
| 12:14.15 | jon_y | hmm ok, I hope the specs improve next year |
| 12:14.30 | dos1 | some 5-6 months from now till release |
| 12:14.53 | jon_y | I was hoping I can get it with my year end bonuses :) |
| 12:14.56 | psycho_oreos | jon_y, it also heavily depends on the developers porting Fremantle UI across. |
| 12:15.17 | psycho_oreos | Invite some more coders/reverse engineers then it may happen. |
| 12:15.38 | dos1 | production of hardware can happen independently to fremantle port |
| 12:15.50 | dos1 | it won't ship with fremantle preinstalled |
| 12:16.16 | jon_y | that is fine too, as long it has uboot on it or something |
| 12:16.17 | dos1 | but of course, it'd be nice if it'll be already in some working state on release day |
| 12:16.27 | jon_y | so I can boot random binaries off the internet :) |
| 12:16.45 | dos1 | jon_y: GTA04 comes with Debian preinstalled |
| 12:17.03 | jon_y | we could put Debian on the Neo900 too |
| 12:17.06 | dos1 | (without any telephony framework installed, but there's FSO in repos) |
| 12:17.30 | dos1 | yup |
| 12:17.35 | jon_y | well, if maemo isn't ready by the time it ships |
| 12:17.52 | dos1 | anyway, it won't ship with maemo |
| 12:18.41 | dos1 | there are some closed blobs that you need to obtain by providing valid N900 IMEI and we probably can't redistribute them with different device |
| 12:18.53 | psycho_oreos | Ahh looks like I was mistaken, I thought Neo900 will only be shipped when Fremantle is ported across. |
| 12:19.02 | dos1 | but anyone will be free to download and install it by themselves, so that shouldn't be a big problem |
| 12:19.27 | dos1 | psycho_oreos: nope, those are two related, but independent projects |
| 12:19.54 | psycho_oreos | dos1, I guess I stand corrected. :) |
| 12:19.55 | dos1 | Neo900 hw will be designed to make Fremantle porting easier, but it doesn't have to wait for it to be finished |
| 12:20.10 | dos1 | after all, you may buy Neo900 while not being interested in Maemo at all |
| 12:20.44 | psycho_oreos | I guess in a way to also entice other openmoko users/owners? :) |
| 12:21.13 | dos1 | yup |
| 12:21.18 | dos1 | Neo900 is a general purpose mobile platform |
| 12:21.24 | dos1 | just like GTA04 |
| 12:21.35 | jon_y | what do I fill in the tax forms? :) |
| 12:21.46 | jon_y | [x] engineering sample |
| 12:22.02 | dos1 | jon_y: sorry, I have no idea about all this tax stuff |
| 12:22.21 | jon_y | I'm kind of worried customs might seize the device |
| 12:22.31 | dos1 | I'm from EU, so it won't be a big problem for me to order it from Germany |
| 12:22.33 | jon_y | if I do buy one |
| 12:22.45 | dos1 | I hope there'll be some resellers outside of EU to make all this stuff easier |
| 12:22.49 | jon_y | yeah, I'm not in EU |
| 12:23.02 | dos1 | as it was with Openmoko |
| 12:23.56 | psycho_oreos | I guess if one's local customs seizes the product, they would probably ask you to briefly describe your purposes, etc. |
| 12:24.32 | psycho_oreos | Chances are, it's unlikely that's ever going to happen unless you bought multiple of the same units and they're all under one name, one address, etc. |
| 12:24.58 | jon_y | probably |
| 12:25.08 | psycho_oreos | Of course customs are usually country/culture specific but I guess most sane ones wouldn't care much. |
| 12:26.47 | psycho_oreos | recalls of the case with MohammadAG when the N950 (yes a N950) was lost in transit. |
| 12:27.17 | jon_y | what happened? |
| 12:28.56 | psycho_oreos | I can't quite remember the whole story but because MohammadAG was shortlisted as one of the many Qt developers to develop programs for the upcoming n9 (at the time). nokia supposedly sent out N950 to all the shortlisted applicants and emailed them the tracking number for each. MohammadAG tracked his but apparently the status kept showing that it was in transit or something. |
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| 12:30.08 | psycho_oreos | It was about a month before the whole case on waiting was dropped, the conclusion was simply that it was "lost in transit". It could be stolen or confiscated without permission. |
| 12:30.47 | jon_y | it was lost forever? |
| 12:31.09 | psycho_oreos | I think it was yeah, basically forever. |
| 12:31.16 | jon_y | :( |
| 12:32.27 | psycho_oreos | That story by now is way more than a year old, virtually one and a half years ago. |
| 12:35.07 | psycho_oreos | I haven't been keeping in tab on the story fully at the time, I guess MohammadAG may have sourced another N950 elsewhere or from nokia again (I think). Though whoever stole that N950 is well.. |
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| 13:05.51 | psycho_oreos | Hmm.. that also reminds me. dos1, if say Neo900 gets produced and supposedly it would be shipped worldwide (of course after you get people paying for it). Would you also be able add extra requirements? say for example if one were to somehow bypass customs and/or to prevent the device being stolen whilst in transit. Can you like declare that the device was sent as a broken device and have no firmware flashed? |
| 13:06.28 | dos1 | psycho_oreos: that might be a bit risky to Goldelico |
| 13:07.04 | psycho_oreos | dos1, *nods* just thinking of it hypothetically. |
| 13:07.29 | psycho_oreos | I mean like if a customer wants it to be like that for instance. |
| 13:10.31 | psycho_oreos | would honestly hate to order something that is expensive and to not have it in his own hands because of some lowlife person that has to go about their own ways of making lives of others miserable. |
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| 14:37.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | we (GolDeliCo) willl send a humble 200 devices. We sure have enough time and love to handle each case very individually |
| 14:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recall we managed to send a few devices to Belarus and to Russia, was real fun |
| 14:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically in the end they were "smuggled" iirc |
| 14:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | The N900 to PaulFertser for hostmode-kernel (Moskow) was really GREAT funĀ” |
| 14:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even Nokia was able to send to a private addr in Moskow, only to corporate addr |
| 14:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then the custums asked for some 200 bucks "processing fee" still |
| 14:44.04 | psycho_oreos | Sending N900 to Russia? o.O is that why there's all those nice Russian sites giving us maemo goodies? :D $200 bucks? hopefully not 200 euros. |
| 14:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end Paul got a device from RST38h who happens to live in Moskow as well and had one devel device he could pass on, which he imported from a maemo convention he visited, in Finnland |
| 14:44.47 | psycho_oreos | Cool I never knew PaulFertzer was based in Russia. |
| 14:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | or somesuch went the tale |
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| 14:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, Paul lives in Moskow |
| 14:50.34 | psycho_oreos | Damn haha the Russians are crazy. :D |
| 14:50.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Paul will agree wholeheartedly |
| 14:51.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | he told me a lot of weird stories about his pupils in the EE/CS classes he held |
| 14:52.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/pupils/students/ |
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| 14:53.05 | psycho_oreos | :o |
| 14:53.44 | psycho_oreos | Sounds like he's an university professor or something. |
| 14:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if university or some other educational entity |
| 14:55.09 | psycho_oreos | *nods* |
| 14:55.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and he's no professor afaik |
| 14:55.40 | psycho_oreos | Ahh but still a lecturer whom seems to also be interested in wireless technologies. |
| 14:56.00 | psycho_oreos | Well wireless, embedded and what have you. |
| 14:56.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that it makes any difference, particularly not in Russia - there the professors starve just like the beggars |
| 14:57.05 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 14:58.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | many of the professors had to start a job as taxidriver in the old days when glasnost etc kicked in, iirc |
| 14:58.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | to make a living |
| 14:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | while Moskow is the most expensive town on earth, I heard |
| 14:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | wird |
| 14:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird even |
| 15:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't even imagine how life in Moskow might be |
| 15:00.42 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I'm not quite sure how their systems run, but that sounds pretty bad. |
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| 15:02.37 | psycho_oreos | has the song: "Rammstein - Moskau" playing in his head. |
| 15:07.25 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: we've got some refferals on neo900.org from boards.4chan.org :D |
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| 15:08.29 | ShadowJK | can you tell which board? :) |
| 15:09.00 | dos1 | lemme check server logs |
| 15:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: nice |
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| 15:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote: some of you still might recall (or even experience every day) the annoying bug in mce that switches off the indicator LED when you lock the device in bright daylight |
| 15:13.44 | psycho_oreos | seems to recall it happening. |
| 15:14.00 | dos1 | https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36955756 |
| 15:15.29 | dos1 | and https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36878654 |
| 15:15.46 | dos1 | threads from 4chan's /g/ with neo900 mentions |
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| 15:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | in /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so the must be a struct {int a[5][2]; int brightness[6]} |
| 15:16.20 | dos1 | https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36860382 |
| 15:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | with values { {{ 32, 64 } ,{ 100, 1000 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,}, { 5, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0 }} |
| 15:17.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 0 and this bug should be gone |
| 15:20.53 | psycho_oreos | Thanks, I'm going to try and note that down. My N900s aren't working properly now. :/ You should post that in a thread or something. :D |
| 15:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | first 5 is brightness of LED under 32lux, 2nd between 32 and 64 lux, the third for between 100 and 1000lux, and you probably want to change the 4th digit "0" also to "5" for ALS >1000lux |
| 15:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | so |
| 15:21.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 5 and this bug should be gone |
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| 16:16.39 | a_l_e | hi. i have a n900 and i'd like to play a stream coming from mpd... |
| 16:16.46 | a_l_e | ... what should i install on the n900? |
| 16:17.53 | a_l_e | the browser tells me that it's an ogg file and offers me to download it. |
| 16:18.16 | a_l_e | the media player tells me that the format is not supported |
| 16:18.35 | psycho_oreos | You need something like extradecoders-support for instance. |
| 16:19.28 | a_l_e | thanks! ... installing it... |
| 16:19.46 | a_l_e | downloading failed :-( |
| 16:21.17 | psycho_oreos | There's a reason why, look for it. It might be in the logs. |
| 16:23.31 | a_l_e | trying to install from the web... |
| 16:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | "download failed" is not a error report we could help with. Please try to follow psycho_oreos' recommendation and get detals from logs on *why* it failed |
| 16:26.43 | a_l_e | i'll have a look at the logs if necessary... |
| 16:26.51 | a_l_e | rebooting right now... |
| 16:26.58 | psycho_oreos | Well.. it is necessary. |
| 16:27.27 | a_l_e | well, i've installed through the web... i hope that it has worked that way... |
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| 16:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ogg-support - Ogg/Vorbis/Flac support for n900 |
| 16:28.16 | a_l_e | it didn't work :-() |
| 16:29.05 | a_l_e | uninstalling |
| 16:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy ogg-support |
| 16:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ogg-support: |
| 16:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# |
| 16:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 16:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | why did pastebin fail? sorry! |
| 16:33.19 | psycho_oreos | o.O I think there's pastebinit in the maemo.org repository. You can pipe the output of that into pastebinit in the future. :) |
| 16:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure |
| 16:33.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I prefer my desktop means though |
| 16:33.51 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 16:33.54 | psycho_oreos | Er or maybe not.. awhile ago I had to get it from ubuntu repository.. but I can't remember now anymore. |
| 16:34.03 | psycho_oreos | *nods* |
| 16:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | mak in xterm, click the pastebin applet |
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| 16:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | pastebinit braks every 4 months and you need to get the new one from random locations in internet and make the scriptie executable on device |
| 16:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | breaks, even |
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| 16:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's even | netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234, but that stopped working recently as well |
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| 16:36.46 | _d0t | hi. Is anyone using a recent kernel on n900? I'm trying to boot 3.10, but it fails at the beginning. |
| 16:36.46 | a_l_e | mmm i think i will try to get mpd to stream mp3... |
| 16:36.53 | psycho_oreos | True but it somewhat is worth it imo. Somewhat handy than worrying about mishaps, I guess to each their own. :) |
| 16:36.56 | a_l_e | it's probably easier. |
| 16:37.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 16:37.33 | psycho_oreos | a_l_e, it might even be more easier if you could do it through something like shoutcast iinm. |
| 16:37.57 | psycho_oreos | Aye, I'm not going to rub it in. Just saying lol. |
| 16:39.03 | psycho_oreos | 3.10? |
| 16:39.19 | psycho_oreos | Wait.. kernel 3.10? what the.. are you nuts? |
| 16:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | streaming of mp3 is actually not supported in standard maemo core apps afaik |
| 16:39.52 | _d0t | psycho_oreos: not particularly. |
| 16:40.29 | a_l_e | thanks! |
| 16:40.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | booting 3.x kernels on N900 is all easypeasy |
| 16:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | just it won't work togeher with fremantle |
| 16:40.50 | a_l_e | no, it does not work :-( |
| 16:41.24 | psycho_oreos | _d0t, afaik kernel 3.x is in development and it's mainly those whom are daring enough to run it. There's probably less than a handful of developers working on 3.x kernel for fremantle. |
| 16:41.31 | _d0t | i dont care about fremantle. i have gentoo installed there. i just need a working kernel config, because rx51_defconfig doesnt seem to boot. |
| 16:41.46 | a_l_e | it plays two notes and then it skips to the next radio station. |
| 16:42.32 | psycho_oreos | Ahh well I'd say it might be best to ask the current power-kernel maintainer directly. Though no guarantees. |
| 16:42.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe ask in gentoo then? |
| 16:43.04 | _d0t | huh... gentoo doesnt have anything to do with the kernel, does it? |
| 16:43.27 | _d0t | I thought power-kernel is still at 2.6.28 version. |
| 16:43.27 | psycho_oreos | wonders how many gentoo developers left to continually maintain their build on maemo.. probably less than a handful as well. |
| 16:43.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | how does #maemo have to do anything with 3-x kernels and defconfig? |
| 16:43.55 | _d0t | #maemo has everything to do with n900 :) |
| 16:44.30 | Pali | http://gitorious.org/linux-n900 |
| 16:44.33 | psycho_oreos | Yeah, though the current maintainer may still have knowledge of (or maybe maybe of) 3.x |
| 16:44.44 | Pali | use kernel from n900 branch |
| 16:44.46 | _d0t | Pali: yeah, thats what i'm using |
| 16:45.10 | a_l_e | ok, on android it seems to work better with mp3. |
| 16:45.11 | _d0t | Pali: you are one of the active developers there, right? |
| 16:45.27 | Pali | yes |
| 16:45.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | _d0t: nope, #maemo is about maemo |
| 16:45.45 | Pali | default rx51_defconfig booting from ubifs rootfs mtd |
| 16:45.55 | a_l_e | ok, i have to leave now... i'll have to try again at some later time... |
| 16:46.13 | psycho_oreos | a_l_e, does mpd support shoutcast stream? if so, that may not need much more work on the N900 itself. You can probably even continue to use that same osso-mediaplayer. |
| 16:46.42 | _d0t | Pali: trying it now. Its stuck after switching to colour buffer device. |
| 16:47.10 | psycho_oreos | Under osso-mediaplayer, there's a thing called internet radio. Supposedly if you can get your mpd to output in a format that osso-mediaplayer can support it should work. |
| 16:48.05 | _d0t | Pali: then i guess the watchdog kicks in and reboots the device. |
| 16:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, so what? |
| 16:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | still #maemo? |
| 16:48.55 | Pali | yo need to compile watchdog drivers into zimage |
| 16:48.57 | a_l_e | mmm. psycho_oreos i can stream to an icecast2 server... |
| 16:49.01 | Pali | =Y |
| 16:49.07 | a_l_e | but i don't think that is is useful. |
| 16:49.49 | a_l_e | however: thanks for your help |
| 16:49.51 | psycho_oreos | a_l_e, I'm not particularly sure what format are those internet radio broadcast in. Though I'd say I've given you some pointers in which you can then research up if you're interested. |
| 16:49.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the wd needs support from userland, I'd guess |
| 16:50.10 | Pali | no, you can turn watchdog off |
| 16:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and userland != maemo, aiui |
| 16:50.14 | a_l_e | yep, you gave several good hints! |
| 16:50.15 | a_l_e | thanks! |
| 16:50.24 | a_l_e | i'm quitting, so the hints do not scroll down! |
| 16:50.28 | _d0t | Pali: CONFIG_TWL4030_WATCHDOG=m this is from the defconfig. I suppose this might be the source of the issue. |
| 16:50.29 | Pali | and when driver load, it disable watchdogs automatically |
| 16:50.32 | a_l_e | have a nice evening, if it's evening at your place! |
| 16:50.36 | *** part/#maemo a_l_e (~quassel@72-77.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:50.59 | Pali | you need to change it from =M to =Y |
| 16:51.04 | _d0t | ok |
| 16:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | only because userland doesn't load the wd module |
| 16:51.40 | Pali | yes, userland maybe not load it |
| 16:52.11 | Pali | but if userland is broken, then you have no way to read why |
| 16:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so again. isn't this a question for #gentoo then? |
| 16:52.42 | _d0t | DocScrutinizer05: this has nothing to do with gentoo or the userspace at all. |
| 16:52.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 16:53.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-09-26 18:51:19] <DocScrutinizer05> only because userland doesn't load the wd module |
| 16:53.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-09-26 18:51:40] <Pali> yes, userland maybe not load it |
| 16:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | userland=maemo? NO userland= gentoo |
| 16:53.35 | _d0t | DocScrutinizer05: it didnt get to the userspace |
| 16:53.57 | _d0t | Pali: thanks, that solved the problem. |
| 16:54.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 16:54.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but not maemo related |
| 16:55.02 | _d0t | DocScrutinizer05: still I had much better chances of finding someone who works on n900 support in the recent kernels here than on #gentoo or some other channel. Stop whining. |
| 16:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just making my point that you were wrong to assume #maemo was the right channel for asking about problems with 3.x kernel under gentoo |
| 16:56.50 | _d0t | DocScrutinizer05: do you really think that the distribution of chose has something to do with the kernel unable to boot? |
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| 16:57.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, obviously. Shall I paste a copy of the copy of pali's and my post, again? |
| 16:57.48 | _d0t | DocScrutinizer05: you should read my post, again. |
| 16:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | your distro doesn't handle watchdog so the kernel driver module doesn't get loaded thus you need to mess with kernel defconfig |
| 16:58.39 | _d0t | no |
| 16:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | evidently same 3.x kernel boots for pali and others just fine |
| 16:59.02 | _d0t | again, no |
| 16:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | MEH! |
| 16:59.36 | _d0t | cool, huh? You're wrong twice |
| 16:59.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | /changenic _d0t _Not |
| 17:00.11 | *** join/#maemo discopig (~discopig@unaffiliated/discopig) |
| 17:00.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, |
| 17:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool, eh= you been wrong 11 tinmes |
| 17:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders how long since last /kick - weird strange desires growing |
| 17:02.17 | _d0t | are you threatening me? |
| 17:04.16 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc3-basf10-2-0-cust617.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:04.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you trolling the channel? |
| 17:05.15 | _d0t | why do you answer with a question? |
| 17:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | why do you? |
| 17:05.38 | _d0t | are you a jew? |
| 17:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | first infracton points towards kick for trolling |
| 17:06.08 | _d0t | are you afraid that i might be trolling you? |
| 17:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | second and last warning |
| 17:06.55 | _d0t | why do you keep warning me? Are you trolling me? |
| 17:07.01 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 17:07.06 | *** kick/#maemo [_d0t!~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 17:07.17 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 17:08.16 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc3-basf10-2-0-cust617.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:10.51 | *** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@kurios.r4780y.com) |
| 17:16.29 | *** join/#maemo useretail (useretail_@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-arngxrvqtuypflau) |
| 17:18.05 | useretail | hey |
| 17:18.23 | useretail | is anyone alive? |
| 17:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 17:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | no intelligent life down here |
| 17:18.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | so bean me up, Scotty |
| 17:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | beam* even |
| 17:19.21 | Apic | ;-) |
| 17:19.32 | Apic | Meta-Questions suck. |
| 17:19.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ask |
| 17:19.39 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 17:21.40 | useretail | i had power-kernel and few days ago i installed multiboot via apt and forgot about it. today i had to reboot my n900 and it showed me multiboot menu with two items but when i select any it reboots |
| 17:21.58 | useretail | what's next? |
| 17:22.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~maemo-multiboot |
| 17:22.17 | infobot | [maemo-multiboot] deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED |
| 17:22.53 | useretail | is there any other solutions? |
| 17:23.07 | useretail | like adding proper kernel? |
| 17:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, probably you could try to flash the right KP-kernel, via flasher with --flash-kernel-only |
| 17:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | or use rescueOS to clean up the mess multiboot caused on your rootfs |
| 17:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos |
| 17:24.02 | infobot | rescueos is probably http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ |
| 17:24.50 | useretail | yes, i have tried rescueos already, but where i can find the kernel? |
| 17:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you'll need the KP52(?) image you used last. there are images available somehwhere - pali could help out with a pointer |
| 17:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | stock kernel otoh is inside fiasco image aka COMBINED |
| 17:26.09 | Pali | in extras-devel in -bootimg packages |
| 17:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks Pali |
| 17:26.25 | Pali | you need to unpack them from deb package |
| 17:26.33 | useretail | zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 < is that the one? |
| 17:26.52 | Pali | it must be without extension |
| 17:26.58 | Pali | then yes |
| 17:27.11 | useretail | ok, will try now |
| 17:27.48 | Apic | I installed u-boot-flasher and reinstalled kernel-power, now it boots _just_ kernel-power and I no longer have the Option to boot the original Kernel or Nitdroid like with multiboot (original is not a Problem, I need _just_ kernel-power, but how can I choose between Power and Nitdroid again? Will just reinstalling Nitdroid get me back a Menu at boot Time?) |
| 17:28.30 | Apic | And does U-Boot have the same Logic - boot with pulled out Keyboard shows Menu? |
| 17:28.37 | Pali | reinstall u-boot-flasher |
| 17:28.51 | Pali | yes |
| 17:28.53 | Apic | k |
| 17:28.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i can help with a pointer too! 0x0c003b72 |
| 17:29.16 | kerio | well |
| 17:29.21 | kerio | (void *)0x0c003b72 |
| 17:30.43 | kerio | ...it's a joke |
| 17:30.47 | kerio | acknowledge it, dammit! |
| 17:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | for KP under uboot you can't use the standard KP package since uboot is mutually exclusive with KP and stock kernel |
| 17:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ROTFL |
| 17:31.37 | useretail | do i have to add --flash-only=kernel option in addition to -k ? |
| 17:31.46 | kerio | useretail: no, it's implied |
| 17:31.53 | kerio | well, it'll try to flash everything it has |
| 17:31.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | for uboot there are kernel images to place into somewhere in userland, you need to use those |
| 17:32.22 | Pali | -bootimg packages |
| 17:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | useretail: when you leave out --flash-only=kernel then you will nuke/reflash your rootfs when using a fiasco image for input file "-F" |
| 17:33.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ok, let's try a different joke then |
| 17:33.29 | kerio | a TCP packet walks into a bar, and says to the bartender: "i'd like a beer" |
| 17:33.35 | kerio | the bartender says: "a beer?" |
| 17:33.39 | kerio | and the packet: "yes, a beer" |
| 17:33.51 | ShadowJK | laughs |
| 17:33.51 | useretail | strange, before flashing i decided to check for the last time and it booted up! |
| 17:34.23 | kerio | i'd also tell you a joke about UDP, but i'm not sure you'd get it |
| 17:34.43 | ShadowJK | kerio; did you hear the one about pulseaudio? |
| 17:34.59 | kerio | i thought pulseaudio *was* the joke! |
| 17:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed it *is* |
| 17:35.15 | kerio | mh, let's test this |
| 17:35.16 | ShadowJK | I for one, heard nothing. |
| 17:35.19 | kerio | hey Pali |
| 17:35.21 | kerio | pulseaudio |
| 17:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | hahaha |
| 17:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: excellent! :-) |
| 17:37.47 | dos1 | good one :) |
| 17:38.06 | useretail | how to remove multiboot safely / completely? |
| 17:38.42 | Apic | Ok, I reinstalled u-boot-flasher, and now I get a nice Menu with Keyboard slid out, but the only Option that seems to work is "Attached Kernel", and that boots the vanilla one, i.e. not -power |
| 17:38.51 | Apic | Shall I try installing kernel-power again too? |
| 17:39.01 | kerio | you need to install kernel-power-bootimg |
| 17:39.04 | Apic | Ok |
| 17:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | useretail: that's where ~maemo-multiboot comes from. You basically can't, or it's at least pretty cumbersome |
| 17:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Apic: see what me and Pali explained a few posts above |
| 17:40.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Apic: installing kernel-power (sans -bootimg) will nuke uBoot again |
| 17:40.56 | Apic | oic |
| 17:41.01 | Pali | no |
| 17:41.27 | Pali | if you have uboot installed it will ask you if you want to reflash kernel or not |
| 17:41.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Apic: KP, uBoot, and stock kernel, all three share the same space to live in. So installing one nukes the other |
| 17:41.54 | Pali | unless you have uboot |
| 17:42.13 | Apic | Now I did aptitude reinstall kernel-power-bootimg and it says "Adding bootmenu entry for: 'Maemo 5 with kernel 2.6.28.10-power52 (Internal Nand)': |
| 17:42.14 | Pali | and installing any flasher will ask you what you want |
| 17:42.32 | Pali | that is ok |
| 17:42.43 | Pali | just reboot device with open keyboard |
| 17:42.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: yep, pretty convenient extension on packaging |
| 17:42.50 | Apic | And can I have NITDroid added as an Option too? |
| 17:42.59 | Pali | and you will see it |
| 17:43.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik nitdroid supports uBoot since a few years, so yes |
| 17:43.12 | Pali | yes also nitdroid can be added to options |
| 17:43.18 | Apic | Ok. |
| 17:43.33 | Pali | vakkov worked on it |
| 17:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | just DO NOT install multiboot again! |
| 17:43.43 | Apic | Yup, U-Boot Menu shows both -omap1 and -power52 now |
| 17:43.47 | Apic | Ok. |
| 17:43.56 | Pali | and he posted images and config files for nitdroid on nitdroid forum |
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| 17:46.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | multiboot is actually flashing a new kernel during each boot |
| 17:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's like flashing a new BIOS to your PC each boot, do select between windows and linux to boot |
| 17:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously extremely dangerous and clumsy |
| 17:47.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus, steer clear of multiboot! by all means! |
| 17:47.43 | Apic | ic |
| 17:51.29 | useretail | thx guys i learned a nice lesson |
| 17:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 17:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 17:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | always pleased to meet new users willing to learn |
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| 17:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | useretail: my explanation of how multiboot works, as of above, also explains why multiboot nukes your uBoot or any other special boot setup you done |
| 17:59.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | multiboot does during boot what you're supposed to NEVER do: flash a new kernel over uBoot |
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| 18:10.27 | Apic | nitdroid-installer says "Multiboot will be installed", so this is not the right one to use, eh? |
| 18:10.41 | kerio | nitdroid is not the right thing to use i'm afraid |
| 18:10.48 | Apic | ic |
| 18:11.32 | Apic | So http://wiki.maemo.org/Nitdroid_easy_install_on_EMMC is probably not the right Guide to follow either, eh? ;-) |
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| 18:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I never looked into nitdroid so I can't help a lot regarding what's the right installation procedure. But one thing is for sure, any installation procedure that installs multiboot is the wrong one |
| 18:18.44 | Apic | Okay. |
| 18:19.18 | Apic | I already installed and ran it a Couple of Months ago, so the rootfs on my microSD is probably right, "just" the Kernel would need to be added to U-Boot |
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| 18:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 18:28.20 | *** join/#maemo Pilke (~Pilke@87-95-11-24.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 18:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just read the instruction/howto, about repartitioning eMMC. Sounds pretty nasty to have mmcblk0p1,mmcblk0p5(extended!),mmcblk0p2,mmcblk0p3 |
| 18:30.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ :-o |
| 18:30.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, I've never played with that |
| 18:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Nitdroid_easy_install_on_EMMC#Method_2 7.Create new extended partition: |
| 18:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: it's not at all about nitdroid, I'm worried about e.g. ke-recv |
| 18:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot, etc |
| 18:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | freak partiton table |
| 18:32.15 | freemangordon | I guess it somehow survives, at least I am not aware of any bugreport :) |
| 18:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | p1, p2, p5, p3 ??? |
| 18:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | beggs for trouble |
| 18:33.03 | freemangordon | could be |
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| 18:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc the partitioning defines that you can have only ONE extended partition, which has to be the last one. inside this extended partition you can have virtual partitions as many as you like, emphasis on "inside" |
| 18:36.04 | Apic | AFAIK the one extended Partition can be any one of the first 4, does not have to be Number 4 |
| 18:36.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, iirc you can have up to 3 or even 4 extended partition, but I might be wrong |
| 18:36.11 | freemangordon | *partitions |
| 18:38.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning#Extended_partition |
| 18:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and s/virtual/logical/ |
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| 18:39.52 | Pali | what do you think? can we finally push TI HD DSP codecs into extras-devel? |
| 18:40.50 | Pali | I can find some time and create debian packaging for hd video playback |
| 18:41.18 | *** part/#maemo singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34) |
| 18:41.26 | freemangordon | Right now I am thinking that I hate SSI driver and the fact that I can't find the reason why SSI interrupts are not triggered :( |
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| 18:42.38 | Pali | freemangordon: maybe you can look at sry kernel tree |
| 18:43.12 | freemangordon | Pali: what to look for? I event ported SSI driver from nemo N9/50 kernel, with the same result |
| 18:43.42 | Pali | try skry 3.5 kernel with maemo |
| 18:43.55 | freemangordon | Pali: There is at least one bug I fixed in the clock framework, but that doesn;t help either :( |
| 18:44.00 | Pali | maybe there is problem in userspace |
| 18:44.19 | freemangordon | Pali: it is not |
| 18:44.36 | Pali | ok, you know |
| 18:44.48 | freemangordon | Pali: does DSP wrk in 3.5? |
| 18:44.51 | freemangordon | *work |
| 18:45.03 | Pali | do not know |
| 18:45.24 | Pali | but dsp drivers are enabled in 3.10 and 3.12 |
| 18:45.24 | freemangordon | becasue it seems SSI shares clocks with DSP and that might be ther reason it doesn't work n 3.10 |
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| 18:46.34 | freemangordon | Pali: I was thinking to ask on #linux-omap, but I saw your friend (fbalbi) there and gave up :D |
| 18:47.11 | Pali | now he finally included both patches :-) |
| 18:47.20 | freemangordon | yeah :D |
| 18:47.31 | Pali | and also sent wl1251 fw to public :-) |
| 18:47.44 | freemangordon | yep, saw that on LKML |
| 18:48.10 | freemangordon | however, SSI still doesn't work :( |
| 18:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMG, US teenager girls sending an average of 135 SMS each day |
| 18:49.22 | kerio | how does kernel development on rx51 even work? is there some dude who tests every version? |
| 18:49.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideally not only one guy |
| 18:49.46 | Pali | elinux.org/N900 |
| 18:50.03 | freemangordon | though ^^^ is a bit oprimistic :) |
| 18:50.10 | freemangordon | *optimistic |
| 18:50.16 | useretail | ok, i've backed up everything.. what do u suggest to install: u-boot or maybe nolo? |
| 18:50.19 | kerio | yeah but how do you test everything? |
| 18:50.30 | freemangordon | kerio: boot to maemo? |
| 18:50.38 | kerio | on linux 3? :o |
| 18:50.46 | freemangordon | 3.12 rc1 |
| 18:51.01 | kerio | why am i not running 3.12rc1 then? |
| 18:51.03 | kerio | D: |
| 18:51.13 | freemangordon | you're too young for that :P |
| 18:52.30 | useretail | is it safe to install u-boot using apt-get install u-boot-flasher ? |
| 18:53.02 | useretail | i'm using power-kernel |
| 18:57.38 | Pali | yes |
| 18:58.05 | Pali | it will ask you if you want to flash uboot into nand |
| 18:58.11 | Pali | accept it |
| 18:58.22 | Pali | and install also package kernel-power-bootimg |
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| 19:03.48 | useretail | damn, i didn't installed kernel-power-bootimg.. where do i have to put zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 so u-boot could boot it? |
| 19:05.48 | *** join/#maemo lexik (~alex@ip-213-220-235-252.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:05.49 | Pali | you need to put it to /boot/ and also need to put item file to /etc/bootmenu.d/ and also run script u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 19:08.06 | useretail | i rebooted already.. atached kernel doesn't boot, so the only option for me is eMMC (i don't have SD card).. where i have to put the image on eMMC to boot temporarily? |
| 19:08.36 | kerio | useretail: fwiw |
| 19:08.43 | kerio | you can just ramload kernel-power |
| 19:08.48 | kerio | it's probably easier |
| 19:09.00 | kerio | i assume you have access to a computer |
| 19:09.12 | kerio | also how are you going to put stuff in the emmc? |
| 19:09.12 | useretail | yeah :) |
| 19:09.16 | Pali | use: flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b |
| 19:09.24 | kerio | Pali: do you need a cmdline? |
| 19:09.29 | Pali | no |
| 19:09.41 | kerio | is it compiled in the kernel or is it a NOLO default? |
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| 19:09.50 | Pali | in kernel |
| 19:13.53 | useretail | kerio: i was going to boot rescueOS |
| 19:14.15 | kerio | fair enough |
| 19:15.07 | Pali | use above flasher command for booting kernel |
| 19:15.21 | Pali | editing uboot files without maemo is hard |
| 19:15.33 | kerio | *without mkimage |
| 19:15.49 | kerio | which, to be fair, should be in every distro's repos |
| 19:16.04 | Pali | no, you need also u-boot-update-bootmenu |
| 19:16.28 | Pali | and generate bootmenu file which is stored in MyDocs |
| 19:17.21 | Pali | or you can transfer uimage to emmc/sd and use uboot console for loading and booting |
| 19:17.38 | kerio | u-boot-update-bootmenu is a shellscript though |
| 19:17.39 | Pali | but loading and booting kernel is easier from flasher |
| 19:17.51 | Pali | why to complicate it? |
| 19:17.55 | kerio | oh ofc |
| 19:18.27 | Pali | u-boot-update-bootmenu expect maemo system... |
| 19:18.46 | Pali | $ flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b |
| 19:18.54 | Pali | and then installing kernel-power-bootimg |
| 19:19.12 | useretail | Pali: ok, this method doesn't work for my n900.. it starts to boot (i see 5 dots blinking) but after that it power offs |
| 19:19.42 | Pali | did you used correct zimage file? |
| 19:20.00 | useretail | i believe so: zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 |
| 19:20.07 | Pali | ok |
| 19:20.12 | Pali | if yes, then you have problem in maemo |
| 19:20.17 | Pali | not in kernel |
| 19:20.57 | Pali | if you cannot boot maemo from attached kernel and also with power kernel, you need to reflash device |
| 19:21.11 | useretail | i noticed that i couldn't boot the phone with usb attached |
| 19:21.21 | useretail | *earlier |
| 19:21.35 | Pali | flasher-3.5 -R |
| 19:21.49 | Pali | and then load and boot kernel |
| 19:21.51 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~quassel@206.208.136.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 19:22.17 | Pali | -R reboot NOLO to normal bootable mode |
| 19:22.41 | Pali | (it can fix charger and some funny other errors) |
| 19:26.43 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@206.208.136.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 19:31.12 | useretail | nothing.. still powers off |
| 19:32.22 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B49455.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:35.02 | Pali | make sure you have charged battery |
| 19:35.38 | Pali | and if kernel-power and also nokia kernel not booting, you need to reflash phone |
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| 19:40.44 | Sc0rpius | I REALLY need an app to upload pictures somewhere and copy the link to the clipboard |
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| 20:03.18 | sixwheeledbeast | ~seen M4rtinK |
| 20:03.29 | infobot | m4rtink <~M4rtinK@ip-89-177-124-88.net.upcbroadband.cz> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 21h 36m 41s ago, saying: 'rZr: just in case - check the AGPS server address'. |
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| 20:29.34 | useretail | so this worked: flasher-3.5 -k zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 --flash-only=kernel -f -R |
| 20:29.45 | *** join/#maemo piggz (~piggz@host-92-18-173-77.as13285.net) |
| 20:30.01 | useretail | no more experiments for today lol |
| 20:32.31 | Pali | useretail: do not forget to install kernel-power-bootimg |
| 20:33.33 | useretail | do i need it? i mean i don't have uboot anymore |
| 20:34.04 | Pali | you have installed some uboot packages, right? |
| 20:34.53 | useretail | yep, i was going to purge everything |
| 20:35.10 | Pali | ok |
| 20:59.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: KDE pastebin widget |
| 20:59.35 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 21:01.53 | Sc0rpius | I thought pastebin was text only |
| 21:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/26/plasma-desktopwc3743.png |
| 21:11.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/26/plasma-desktopGV3743.png |
| 21:11.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: ^^^ |
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| 21:42.45 | Sc0rpius | oh DocScrutinizer05 that's cool |
| 21:43.04 | Sc0rpius | but I need it in the N900 :() |
| 21:43.05 | Sc0rpius | :) |
| 21:43.19 | Sc0rpius | so I can take a picture with the camera and easily upload it somewhere |
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| 22:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: I'm using a tiny app for that which executes a cmdline for the picture you want to share. My cmdline does an sftp upload to maemo.cloud-7.de/shareservice |
| 22:01.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: you could use arbitrary other cmdline, depending on where you want to transfer the picture file to |
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| 22:02.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I used to use ovishare, but Nokia obviously thought it's been too expensive to host that server |
| 22:02.29 | *** join/#maemo gianji (5712e385@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.18.227.133) |
| 22:02.56 | gianji | hello guys! |
| 22:03.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 22:03.58 | gianji | my question is: is extras assistanr still working? i request invitation to upload but nothing https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php |
| 22:04.11 | gianji | *assistant |
| 22:04.43 | Sc0rpius | it should work |
| 22:05.33 | Sc0rpius | but I guess an admin has to read the invitation and accept it somehow |
| 22:05.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, those requests are somewhat poorly worded. We need a proper description of what you plan to upload, and frequently you're supposed to already have a garage project where you host the package |
| 22:06.05 | gianji | what do you suggest me to write in the request? just the name of package you want to upload in extras-dev is needed? |
| 22:06.38 | Sc0rpius | for instance what is your application, what it does, why did you do it, why do you still have an N900, etc |
| 22:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I want to upload quandoparte_armel.deb" doesn't help to decide what this is. Is is FOSS? where is it from? are there patents in it? all that stuff |
| 22:08.32 | Sc0rpius | yeah last time a random guy request an invitation and then uploaded a system package |
| 22:08.39 | Sc0rpius | *requested |
| 22:08.47 | gianji | eheh :p so somebody is reading!?! ok i'll send a more detailed request! |
| 22:08.47 | Sc0rpius | that was hell for like 3 days |
| 22:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | "I want to upload mandb" might help since mandb is pretty clearly defined in "man mandb" |
| 22:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | we at very least need a pointer to the project homepage |
| 22:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | regularly that homepage is a garage project |
| 22:10.43 | Sc0rpius | I use the garage project bug tracking for my apps |
| 22:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea is that only for garage projects we grant upload rights to extras |
| 22:11.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be exceptions, e.g. for tor which is hosted on tor.org I guess |
| 22:11.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | or for asterisk |
| 22:12.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | or for pretty well known standard unix tools |
| 22:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but those are exceptions |
| 22:12.38 | gianji | i have the garage page |
| 22:13.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | the standard procedure is: you develop an app on your garage project site, when you're done you ask for permission to upload from garage to extras |
| 22:13.23 | Sc0rpius | yeah, what's the application anyway? now I'm curious |
| 22:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | quandoparte_armel.deb ? |
| 22:13.55 | Sc0rpius | I don't think so |
| 22:14.03 | Sc0rpius | that's a very old italian app |
| 22:14.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>My garage username is: gianko<< |
| 22:14.28 | gianji | https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php i'm not the original dev i'm just starting to contribute to this app |
| 22:15.03 | gianji | i have a fix for a broken url. since the original dev is only supporting harmattan version |
| 22:15.13 | gianji | i'll take care of maemo version |
| 22:15.15 | Sc0rpius | I see |
| 22:15.25 | Sc0rpius | well you're listed as a developer of the project |
| 22:15.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ could you have a look into this? |
| 22:15.48 | gianji | yes he added me |
| 22:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | which project? |
| 22:16.07 | Sc0rpius | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/quandoparte/ <-- that one |
| 22:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 22:16.12 | Sc0rpius | and this guy is Giancarlo Pasquali |
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| 22:17.01 | gianji | are you from NSA ? lol |
| 22:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the NSA guys are just busy doing our weekly backups |
| 22:18.04 | Sc0rpius | well a nice invitation request would be like "I'm x guy and my maemo.org login is x and I'm a developer of the project quandoparte which is hosted as (garage link) and I want to upload packages for this project that has been active since 2010 but the main project admin now is MIA so I'm adopting the whole project" |
| 22:18.27 | gianji | they have a lot of work since new iphone come out |
| 22:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: there's a form to fill in - it's terribly poorly written with no explanation at all |
| 22:19.04 | Sc0rpius | yeah I know, I had to fill it once, months/years ago |
| 22:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the mails we see are frequently exactly this: |
| 22:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Hi, |
| 22:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would like to request upload privileges for the maemo extras and extras-devel repositories. |
| 22:19.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | My garage username is: gianko |
| 22:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | The packages I want to upload are: quandoparte_armel.deb |
| 22:19.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | -- Giancarlo Pasquali |
| 22:19.55 | Sc0rpius | :/ |
| 22:19.59 | Sc0rpius | reject it :P |
| 22:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to ignore them, but merlin1991 is supposed to handle that stuff |
| 22:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | he needs better info what to check before he may grant upload rights to extras |
| 22:20.57 | Sc0rpius | and should read the wiki a little more since you can't upload deb files |
| 22:20.59 | gianji | if i send it now? merlin is in? |
| 22:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: are you in? |
| 22:21.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 22:21.30 | Sc0rpius | you upload the source files and then the autobuilder will build and package it for you if you did everything right. |
| 22:23.07 | gianji | ok. should be no problem as it worked on my scratchbox sdk |
| 22:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 22:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#Uploading_to_Extras-devel |
| 22:24.11 | gianji | @Sc0rpius you r yappari guy? |
| 22:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody urgently needs to improve and augment the webpages that have those upload request forms |
| 22:24.28 | Sc0rpius | yes I am |
| 22:25.13 | gianji | nice to meet you! my congratulation for your work ;) |
| 22:25.18 | Sc0rpius | thanks :) |
| 22:25.31 | Sc0rpius | I assume you use it? |
| 22:25.52 | gianji | of course! i saw latest yappari failed to build? |
| 22:25.54 | Sc0rpius | I'm uploading 1.1.39 as we speak, it supports push-to-talk, so if you have extras/devel active you might upgrade in like the next hour or so |
| 22:26.20 | Sc0rpius | sometimes autobuilder and I have our differences ;) but it built ok last time |
| 22:26.41 | gianji | cool! |
| 22:27.38 | gianji | voice note are very trendy nowadays |
| 22:30.28 | gianji | i'm sending another request...i'll attache a link to the irclogs XD |
| 22:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#Autobuilder_special_considerations |
| 22:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather attach an URL pointing to the homepage of that project |
| 22:34.17 | gianji | ok |
| 22:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when that's a garage project it's almost accepted already for extras |
| 22:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | granting extras upload permissions for garage projects is a nobrainer |
| 22:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Extras account set to Accepted |
| 22:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Aktualisiert |
| 22:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Account Information1 |
| 22:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Benutzer-ID: 97077 |
| 22:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Benutzer-Name: gianko |
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| 22:39.15 | gianji | thanks! |
| 22:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 22:40.24 | gianji | you mean that if the dev added me in the project i automatically have upload permission? |
| 22:40.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 22:41.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I will not think longetr than 10s when granting upload permissions to a garage project maintainer |
| 22:42.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the garage project already asked all the relevant questions like "is it FOSS, has it GPL?" etc, when it got created |
| 22:42.15 | gianji | clear |
| 22:42.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I had to visit www.qunadoparte.org and try to find out about all that |
| 22:43.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you don't point me to http://www.qunadoparte.org in which case I simply ignore the request |
| 22:44.33 | gianji | got it |
| 22:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 22:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for contributing! :-D |
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| 22:45.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | in case you got issues with atobuilder, drop by here and holler, the cruft on maemo.org infra sometimes needs a kick |
| 22:45.45 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon_ (~freemango@213.137.35.49) |
| 22:47.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, and prepare for waiting maybe 12h until any change in your maemo account (like new ssh key for uplaod) actually propagated across all the m.o infra |
| 22:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the machines get synced only evry other hour or so |
| 22:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and pretty please don't double-upload same version number of your package |
| 22:48.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | this confuses hell out of the repo management and autobuilder |
| 22:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | also don't use epoc in version string! |
| 22:50.10 | gianji | ok i'll be carefull. thanks for advices |
| 22:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
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| 23:59.42 | merlin1991 | damng too late |
