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| 00:23.21 | M4rtinK | r00t|home: seems to be working :) |
| 00:28.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | grrrr |
| 00:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 00:28.39 | infobot | rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 00:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsck libusb0.1.4 |
| 00:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least the wiki instructions work |
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| 00:34.01 | M4rtinK | r00t|home: so thanks a lot ! :) |
| 00:34.14 | M4rtinK | r00t|home: BTW, this is how it looks like in the end: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/blob/master/modules/device_modules/base_device_module.py#L229 |
| 01:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: wtf, what a cmdline?! |
| 01:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | [ "$o" ] && really? |
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| 01:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just realized what friggin PITA it must be for linux-inept users to reflash their device |
| 01:19.25 | r00t|home | DocScrutinizer05: that tests if $o is empty... |
| 01:19.39 | r00t|home | or rather, not empty |
| 01:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | flasher-3.5 refused to work on my system due to 64bit libusb, then I had to blacklist phonet, then it refused to flash and I had to ^C and restart flasher to make it finally go thru ... after it failed halfway first tinme for unknown reasons |
| 01:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: I know shellscript a bit, but that's really obfuscated stuff |
| 01:21.16 | r00t|home | $ help test |
| 01:21.18 | r00t|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.18 | r00t|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:21.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you didn't test for -n |
| 01:21.45 | r00t|home | see the second line |
| 01:21.48 | r00t|home | you can omit the -n |
| 01:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, like I said, maximum obfuscated ;-D |
| 01:22.12 | r00t|home | it's all rather natural to me... but then i've been doing bash for half a decade |
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| 01:22.30 | r00t|home | most people write utter nonsense like [ x$o = x ] |
| 01:22.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | has some rationale |
| 01:23.04 | r00t|home | (you need to quote the variable, because during parsing the empty string is just skipped over otherwise, and you end up with [ ] which is a syntax error |
| 01:23.35 | r00t|home | people who don't know quoting use the x=x variant |
| 01:23.45 | r00t|home | (it still breaks if the variable contains spaces) |
| 01:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I sometimes use x$A == xBLABLA |
| 01:24.29 | r00t|home | use quotes instead and omit the x :P |
| 01:24.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | err s/==/=/ |
| 01:25.15 | r00t|home | you can also use [[ instead of [ , which behaves much nicer, but it's only available in bash, not plain sh like busybox |
| 01:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think under certain circumstances even quoting with " fails |
| 01:26.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. when your $var is '"' |
| 01:26.10 | r00t|home | quoting with " "fails" on exclamation points in interactive mode, because history exapnsion is for silly reasons allowed inside quotes |
| 01:26.16 | r00t|home | else it always works |
| 01:26.43 | r00t|home | some characters are still special inside ", like \ or $ |
| 01:27.01 | r00t|home | but special chars in variable contents are no problem when the expansion is quoted |
| 01:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I'm doing shellscripts since ~15 years now, though only occasionally |
| 01:27.45 | r00t|home | i do way too much shell for unknown reasons... |
| 01:27.58 | r00t|home | i guess the reason is it's always right at my fingertips when i have a shell open |
| 01:28.16 | r00t|home | i liked that with basic back on my '64 |
| 01:29.03 | r00t|home | you just start coding _right_there_, then copy it into a program/script file later |
| 01:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough, a colleague said "wowo, I never knew what you can do in shellscript" when reading http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 |
| 01:34.11 | r00t|home | bit operations? |
| 01:34.27 | r00t|home | i didn't know bash can do binary... only hex and octal :D |
| 01:35.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 01:36.17 | r00t|home | one thing bash can NOT do is store arbitary binary data in variables... at least 0-bytes break it... |
| 01:37.07 | dos1 | shouldn't quoting with ' fix all problems with special chars inside " ? |
| 01:37.24 | r00t|home | dos1: sure, but it does not allow for variable expansion |
| 01:37.53 | r00t|home | dos1: if you do it the "right" way, you're constantly switching quoting mode inside strings, which isn't beautiful either |
| 01:38.10 | r00t|home | echo 'hello '"$world"'!' |
| 01:38.46 | dos1 | oh, i see |
| 01:38.57 | dos1 | in [ x$o = x ] context ' sure won't work |
| 01:39.51 | r00t|home | but " works fine there |
| 01:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: I'm about to clean the device for Nikolaus |
| 01:40.37 | r00t|home | or you use [[, which does not need quotes at all, because it's a shell syntax construct and not a command, so normal quoting rules do not apply |
| 01:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | add a FPC of the 3 pcs I received today, some GTA bare bones housing and GPS active antennae |
| 01:42.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: nikolaus maybe found a matching 1GB-RAM PoP, alas without NAND |
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| 01:44.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: pun question: what type of command is ']' |
| 01:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | saturn:/var/log # which ] |
| 01:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | which: no ] in (/usr/lib64/mpi/gcc/openmpi/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/root/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games:/opt/kde3/bin) |
| 01:45.27 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: nice! |
| 01:48.20 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: what are the adventages of running os from separate nand insead of emmc? bandwidth? |
| 01:50.53 | ShadowJK | ubifs on nand should be faster than ext3-on-emmc for small writes (common to OS use) |
| 01:51.33 | ShadowJK | With a modern kernel we could run f2fs instead, which performs about twice as fast as ext4 on emmc-type. |
| 01:54.38 | ShadowJK | Regardless, the more devices to spread IO traffic around to, the better |
| 01:55.21 | dos1 | :nod: |
| 01:56.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: no advantages |
| 01:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we need NAND for e.g CAL |
| 01:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 01:58.01 | dos1 | oh |
| 01:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless we build some massive cheat into kernel |
| 02:00.09 | ShadowJK | Considering the emmc doed about 1-4 WIOPS, if there's a write in-flight, the page-in of executable code from /opt can have to wait up to a second in worst case.. so I'd say it does have an impact |
| 02:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not about those 256MB NAND and the 4 or 5 partitions on it, it's about kernel and userland using those |
| 02:01.27 | ShadowJK | (especially if sqlite-using things like.. well, conversations, browser, tracker is running) |
| 02:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new eMMC seem faster |
| 02:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but still... missing on NAND is a pain |
| 02:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure we can boot from eMMC |
| 02:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe we even can cheat CAL and mtdoops |
| 02:04.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly I don't like that solution |
| 02:04.44 | ShadowJK | If it has a log-structured SLC cache, it will be able to do short bursts at 100-400 WIOPS.. if it just has faster raw nand inside though, it wont be a noticeable speed boost for multitasking os use |
| 02:04.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I raher go for 512MB RAM and 512 NAND |
| 02:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | dman those 1GB RAM requests |
| 02:06.55 | ShadowJK | I'd rather take 1G/0G.. and put /home on uSD |
| 02:06.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody offers 1GB RAM + NAND PoP MCP, except Nokia in N9 |
| 02:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: no way |
| 02:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that means you can't swap uSD anymore |
| 02:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | aside from that, why put /home on uSD? |
| 02:08.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just fine on eMMC |
| 02:08.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that friggin DM3730 only had RAM bus on bottom chips |
| 02:09.29 | ShadowJK | I mean as a personal setup, to separate write intensive data from read intensive data |
| 02:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's your private non fremantle comaptibel setup |
| 02:10.08 | ShadowJK | so the write doesn't hold up reads |
| 02:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | not viable for Neo900 |
| 02:10.27 | ShadowJK | oh yes |
| 02:11.12 | ShadowJK | I already use swap on uSD for the same reason :P |
| 02:11.15 | ShadowJK | (and some other stuff, like moving gpodder's data files to uSD makes downloaading podcasts 5 times fasrer) |
| 02:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what do we need? 2 eMMC? |
| 02:13.35 | ShadowJK | How many mmc interfaces does omap have? :D |
| 02:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hoped for RAM in MCP eMMC chip, but it seems it has its own RAM bus, just simply sharing same chip package with eMMC |
| 02:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | (how many) to be evaluated if more than one can share same bus |
| 02:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | DM3730 has 2 separate IF iirc |
| 02:15.43 | ShadowJK | Bus sharing isn't very useful |
| 02:22.59 | ShadowJK | this would be awesome :D http://www.anandtech.com/show/7347/sandisk-announces-optimized-inand-extreme-emmc-for-bay-trail |
| 02:23.12 | ShadowJK | 400 WIOPS sustained |
| 02:24.10 | ShadowJK | best of best I've seen so far has been 100-400 peak/burst |
| 02:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | i guess we can use iNand eMMC |
| 02:25.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | toldya there are faster eMMC nowadays |
| 02:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I jst wish there was a flash (eMMC) with a smart controller and 1 or 2 GB of RAM "buffer" |
| 02:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought those 32+1 combi eMMC would be this, but it seems they are not |
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| 02:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin usual mess of big business not even providing datasheets |
| 02:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | only pamphlets with marketing blabla |
| 02:51.19 | jonwil | what part are you trying to find datasheet for? |
| 02:51.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | mompls |
| 02:52.26 | jonwil | reads backtrace |
| 02:52.34 | jonwil | chanlog |
| 02:53.07 | ShadowJK | 32+1? |
| 02:53.08 | jonwil | you are talking about memory parts? |
| 02:53.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372500#post1372500 |
| 02:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | KMK2U000VM |
| 02:57.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> Instead of interconnecting and using these memory chips separately within the device, MCP introduces the concept of unifying all the memory chips onto a single substrate. The chips are then connected on the substrate using one of several techniques, such as die-to-die bonding or die-to-frame bonding. Along with a substantial reduction in the board space used by the memory subsection, this technique significantly improves the |
| 02:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | performance of memory devices due to the tight coupling and shortest possible interconnections between the memory chips.<< |
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| 03:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | what been the PoP on N900? KAT0F00D? |
| 03:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Samsung Semiconductor KAT00F00DD-AE77 MCP - 2Gb OneNAND Flash, 2Gb Mobile DDR, PoP |
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| 05:03.59 | jonwil | anyone know where I can find a tool that can strip comments from a source file? (I cant seem to find anything with Google) |
| 05:04.39 | bef0rd | cloc |
| 05:04.50 | bef0rd | o, not really strip, just count them |
| 05:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | there must be an abundance of c prettyprinters |
| 05:06.27 | bef0rd | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2394017/remove-comments-from-c-c-code |
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| 05:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_(Unix) |
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| 12:16.58 | Macer | hm |
| 12:17.01 | Macer | how odd |
| 12:17.20 | Macer | pan seems to work but i have to keep re-adding the device for windows to direct connect to the n900 |
| 12:17.55 | Macer | it is the strangest thing |
| 12:18.18 | Macer | right now it still allows for a direct connection but later it will only give an adhoc option |
| 12:18.21 | Macer | odd |
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| 13:29.20 | jonwil | anyone know what actingdead is? |
| 13:35.37 | cehteh | after the warranty is over, the device enters that mode :) |
| 13:37.27 | cehteh | srly ... charging is managed by a userspace daemon, when the device is turned but plugged into charger/usb it boots into acting-dead where only charging running but nothing else is booted up |
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| 13:53.26 | inz | also on alarm-from-poweroff |
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| 14:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | good point |
| 14:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically act_dead is a runlevel different to the "normal" one |
| 14:06.03 | ShadowJK | In Diablo, switching from act_dead to normal is very fast :) |
| 14:06.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | they changed the way this switching works, in fremantle. And again in HARM |
| 14:07.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | In HARM even a ssh session survives switching to act_dead |
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| 14:29.35 | jonwil | ok, now I see what osso-systemui-actingdead is for, its to display the UI (including audio) so that when you go into actdead mode you get indications of whats going on |
| 14:30.03 | jonwil | i.e. when the battery is really drained and you power up the phone with the charger plugged in, it can play the audio to say "yes I am charging" |
| 14:36.49 | jonwil | Having studied it (and osso-systemui-modechange) I can say that they can go off the "needs changes for Neo900" list as nothing they do is tied to the hardware as such |
| 14:48.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
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| 15:01.37 | kerio | so... we're going to keep the godawful act_dead mode? :c |
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| 15:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't know anybody was about to _not_ keep _anything_ |
| 15:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW wtf are you talking about? You sound like somebody announced development of HARM++ |
| 15:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to remove act_dead mode form your system, should be rather simple to establish |
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| 15:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | this however would imply that your system boots up on plugging in the charger (or on RTC alarm) and will NOT power down when you unplug it (or cancel the alarm) - or alternatively you can set up your config so system *always* powers down on unplugging charger, if you prefer that |
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| 15:57.17 | Sicelo | please help with my battery drainage issue. |
| 15:57.35 | Sicelo | powertop output: http://pastebin.com/wu65QRLi |
| 15:58.49 | Sicelo | nothing 'unusual' running. just two xmpp accounts in Conversations, and 2 other accounts in pidgin. no widgets at all. using wifi |
| 16:00.05 | Sicelo | i'm onk CSSU-S+KP52. |
| 16:02.56 | Sicelo | htop doesn't show any process to be holding up CPU |
| 16:05.20 | Sc0rpius | close pidgin and test again |
| 16:05.34 | Sc0rpius | and I'm assuming Wifi, right? |
| 16:05.42 | Sc0rpius | WiFi in power save mode? |
| 16:09.19 | Sicelo | yes, PSM on. however, this was the case even with GPRS (not 3_) |
| 16:09.28 | Sicelo | yes, PSM on. however, this was the case even with GPRS (not 3G) |
| 16:10.04 | Sicelo | surely that should not cause CPU to not get to C4, should it? |
| 16:10.36 | ShadowJK | display seems to be on 100% |
| 16:10.50 | ShadowJK | and something is keeping some hw active, could be accelerometer |
| 16:11.23 | ShadowJK | not that it would be main power use, but insdicates device isn't reaching idle |
| 16:15.31 | Sicelo | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91371 |
| 16:15.48 | Sicelo | weird stuff. (i posted there,as qhubekela) |
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| 20:06.07 | wotan147 | Folks on this page http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application they say I have to put a unix{ enty in the .pro files, but shouldnt' I rather replace it by a maemo{ entry? |
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| 20:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: pretty much sounds like a bug in KP |
| 20:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: accelerometer should show in IRQ of I2C, don't ask me which one |
| 20:43.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course it could be the age old heissenbug in I2C |
| 20:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: check spirit level or accelerometer test app, whatever, to make sure communication to LIS302 is working |
| 20:44.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and also that the values delivered make any sense |
| 20:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl o/ |
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| 21:05.19 | sixwheeledbeast | wotan147: did someone point you to the logs for yesterday after you logged off? |
| 21:10.38 | wotan147 | sixwheeledbeast : nope how do I get the log? |
| 21:11.21 | sixwheeledbeast | wotan147: https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-09-24.log.html#t2013-09-24T01:16:51 |
| 21:11.31 | sixwheeledbeast | did you sort that? |
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| 21:21.39 | wotan147 | sixwheeledbeast yep ;) there was a problem as well with compat of debhelper |
| 21:24.03 | sixwheeledbeast | wotan147: it should be 5, so have you built the pkg then? |
| 21:25.30 | wotan147 | on my scratchbox it is working with seven should I put 5 if I want to upload to the repo |
| 21:26.42 | wotan147 | yep I succeeded and now I am trying to build a script to automize it for any qt apps I am making but in the .pro when you put maemo{ entries and than unix{ entry, which one will have priorty? will it default to unix even if maemo is here? |
| 21:26.56 | sixwheeledbeast | if it works, I don't think I could upload packages built with 7 |
| 21:31.16 | sixwheeledbeast | I haven't ever touched the pro file like the wiki says for my Qt packages. |
| 21:35.23 | Sc0rpius | Jesus Christ QMediaPlayer (Qt) is affected by Silent profile what the efff |
| 21:35.32 | Sc0rpius | I had to contact libpulse directly! |
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| 21:45.45 | sixwheeledbeast | err are we talking OMP here? |
| 21:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 21:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are some wiki pages about that |
| 21:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that you could say fremantle audio policies are particularly intuitive or versatile or just sane |
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| 22:06.13 | sixwheeledbeast | WFM |
| 22:07.48 | HtheB | FML... |
| 22:07.57 | HtheB | is there anyone from the UK? :P |
| 22:08.51 | sixwheeledbeast | yep |
| 22:08.58 | HtheB | sixwheeledbeast: sup |
| 22:09.07 | sixwheeledbeast | hello |
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| 22:23.12 | nox- | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/10330414/iOS-7-users-destroy-iPhones-after-fake-waterproof-advert.html |
| 22:25.35 | HtheB | fail |
| 22:25.57 | nox- | on 4chan of all things |
| 22:27.33 | HtheB | yeah |
| 22:27.38 | HtheB | pedobear and stuf |
| 22:27.39 | HtheB | f |
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| 22:31.45 | jonwil | hi |
| 22:33.26 | HtheB | hi |
| 22:40.15 | jonwil | ~seen Doczzzzzscrutinizer05 |
| 22:40.18 | infobot | i haven't seen 'doczzzzzscrutinizer05', jonwil |
| 22:40.38 | jonwil | ~seen Docsrutinizer05 |
| 22:40.38 | infobot | i haven't seen 'docsrutinizer05', jonwil |
| 22:40.51 | jonwil | ~seen Docscrutinizer05 |
| 22:40.51 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 is currently on #openmoko #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 882 messages. Is idling for 50m 26s, last said: 'not that you could say fremantle audio policies are particularly intuitive or versatile or just sane'. |
| 22:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? |
| 22:43.09 | HtheB | lol |
| 22:43.35 | HtheB | ~seen DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:43.35 | infobot | docscrutinizer05 is currently on #openmoko #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 883 messages. Is idling for 2m 27s, last said: 'wut?'. |
| 23:04.25 | kerio | ~seen HtheB |
| 23:04.28 | infobot | htheb is currently on #maemo (1h 3m 4s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 20m 53s, last said: '~seen DocScrutinizer05 '. |
| 23:04.48 | HtheB | lol |
| 23:09.56 | HtheB | DocScrutinizer05: is there ANY way to get lcd screens for the n950's? |
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| 23:15.11 | liambeeblebrox | Hey, anyway I could contribute to porting Fremantle (Is anyone online?) for the Neo900? |
| 23:16.07 | dos1 | liambeeblebrox: lots of different ways :) |
| 23:16.50 | liambeeblebrox | Well, where should I start looking? |
| 23:17.24 | dos1 | in FPTF thread and linked threads from there |
| 23:17.43 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah, I'm already there |
| 23:17.49 | dos1 | right now we mostly need to document everything we can |
| 23:17.59 | dos1 | especially regarding audio and gsm stack |
| 23:18.02 | liambeeblebrox | Okkaaay. |
| 23:18.13 | liambeeblebrox | Specific to maemo5? |
| 23:18.26 | dos1 | yup |
| 23:18.32 | liambeeblebrox | Hmm. |
| 23:18.38 | dos1 | there are some bits that will have to be replaced in neo900 |
| 23:18.55 | dos1 | and some stuff will need some compatibility wrappers around them |
| 23:19.05 | liambeeblebrox | Both SoC's (N900 and Neo900) are ARM right? |
| 23:19.11 | dos1 | yup |
| 23:19.30 | liambeeblebrox | I can do compatibility sometimes |
| 23:20.09 | liambeeblebrox | Anyway so I should just look in the thread/'s for work? |
| 23:20.17 | dos1 | right now it's all at "document all the stuff" stage |
| 23:21.02 | dos1 | if you have some similar hardware like openpandora you can hack on, then you can start pondering with some proof of concepts |
| 23:21.03 | liambeeblebrox | Yup |
| 23:21.25 | liambeeblebrox | I don't |
| 23:21.40 | dos1 | actual implementation of stuff will come later |
| 23:21.47 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah cool |
| 23:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: nope |
| 23:21.59 | liambeeblebrox | I can't help (That much) with that anyway |
| 23:22.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | except jonni iirc |
| 23:22.29 | liambeeblebrox | Anyway thanks! |
| 23:22.35 | dos1 | yw |
| 23:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi dos1 |
| 23:22.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi liambeeblebrox |
| 23:22.56 | dos1 | hello! |
| 23:23.05 | liambeeblebrox | Hey. |
| 23:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | liambeeblebrox: /join #maemo-ssu |
| 23:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch jonwil and pali and freemangordon head away with already porting stuff, resp creating FOSS replacements |
| 23:26.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | recently pali created a frankentree from mce diablo and mce harm sources (both public) and tried to synthesize a mce source that would work on fremantle |
| 23:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the guys already got quite a good part of it working |
| 23:26.24 | dos1 | oh, yeah, that stuff is pretty important for it too, even if not neo900 specific |
| 23:26.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even all of it, dunno |
| 23:26.47 | liambeeblebrox | Will do. |
| 23:26.56 | dos1 | and they're doing amazing job at it |
| 23:27.06 | liambeeblebrox | Sorry i'm fixing myself breakfast at the same time |
| 23:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are other blobs that need to get tackled. urgently. like modem stuff |
| 23:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | np, everybody should have breakfast (that's what the blame me every day for) |
| 23:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | they* |
| 23:28.22 | liambeeblebrox | Modem stuff? |
| 23:28.32 | dos1 | csd |
| 23:28.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | libisi, cmt_speech |
| 23:28.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSD |
| 23:29.09 | liambeeblebrox | Right |
| 23:29.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 23:29.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | has some analysis from jonwil about it |
| 23:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and some links to wiki pages |
| 23:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | chanlogs of #maemo-ssu also have some chats about it (you can search on the chanlog site) |
| 23:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise just ask |
| 23:31.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | first of all: introduce yourself and state what's your domain of expertise, on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 23:31.42 | liambeeblebrox | Which is preferred to just ask, here? |
| 23:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | the rest will come naturally |
| 23:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask in #maemo-ssu |
| 23:32.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask jonwil, freemangordon, pali, dos1, or me. Or just ask :-) |
| 23:32.36 | liambeeblebrox | Sounds good. |
| 23:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is a community effort, and like all community efforts nobody really takes care about doing proper documetation |
| 23:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to mention task dispatching |
| 23:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus: just ask :-D |
| 23:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I'm trying to do a little bit of task dispatching or rather coordination, but that's more on a service&support level than on an authoritative one) |
| 23:37.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | right now jonwil is planning or already about to analyze libcmtspeech and tries to find out what functions like echo cancellation and noise suppression and whatnot we can isolate and identify in it |
| 23:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have a pretty working mce binary we can build |
| 23:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're analyzing CSD "stack" and libisi and try to figure what and how we can replace and where to plumb the new stuff to the old OS |
| 23:39.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody already picked up on dbus API analysis |
| 23:40.34 | liambeeblebrox | Is the hardware already done? |
| 23:41.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually I will have to look into bme again, and see what needs to get done to marry it with the GTA04 charging and battery management and power handling |
| 23:41.22 | dos1 | no; ETA is about 6 months |
| 23:41.32 | liambeeblebrox | Okay |
| 23:41.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, the hardware is existing in form of predecessor GTA04 |
| 23:41.41 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah I had a look at it |
| 23:42.26 | liambeeblebrox | So the purpose is to 'essentially' port Maemo to the newer hardware |
| 23:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare it to N900 schematics and you got an idea where we will hit the ground finally, with GTA04-NeoN board |
| 23:43.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, port fremantle to the silghtly different (than N900) Neo900 hardware |
| 23:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a way so userland is 99.99% identical |
| 23:43.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | (obviously that's a mission impossible, but nevertheless our goal) |
| 23:43.53 | liambeeblebrox | So that existing code will run on it, yes? |
| 23:43.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | all userland apps should run on Neo900 without any patching or even recompile |
| 23:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | copy and execve |
| 23:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few bits need rework, and that'S what the guys are doing right nnow |
| 23:45.45 | liambeeblebrox | What about "Harmattan" |
| 23:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | like mce, bme, libcmtspeech/CSD/libisi, |
| 23:45.53 | liambeeblebrox | Thats maemo6 yeah? |
| 23:46.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | HARM is not related |
| 23:46.04 | liambeeblebrox | And yeah I have the list up |
| 23:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah "maemo" 6 |
| 23:46.36 | liambeeblebrox | It's different? |
| 23:46.44 | dos1 | going to sleep, good night |
| 23:46.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | N810 Diablo been more similar to Fremantle than Fremantle is to HARM, though the latter 2 both are phones |
| 23:47.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | night dos1 |
| 23:47.05 | liambeeblebrox | Night. |
| 23:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | YAY |
| 23:48.02 | liambeeblebrox | Split? |
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| 23:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1 what did you do??? ;-P |
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| 23:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
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| 23:48.14 | liambeeblebrox | good effort |
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| 23:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 23:48.39 | liambeeblebrox | So, maemo6 is radically different from maemo5 |
| 23:48.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | netsplit I meant |
| 23:48.51 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah I know |
| 23:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, HARM is quite different in several aspects to fremantle |
| 23:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not really interested in it, so far |
| 23:49.28 | liambeeblebrox | Okay. |
| 23:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's infested by aegis |
| 23:49.42 | liambeeblebrox | But the N9 ran it? |
| 23:49.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis |
| 23:49.44 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 23:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, N9 runs HARM |
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| 23:51.11 | liambeeblebrox | Okay. |
| 23:51.35 | liambeeblebrox | So the goal is to port maemo5, freemantle to the newer hardware |
| 23:51.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:51.53 | liambeeblebrox | Which is mostly lower level hardware stuff |
| 23:51.55 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah? |
| 23:51.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | port the OS, so the apps will just feel at home |
| 23:52.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, yeah, mostly lower level, since we are porting the OS API |
| 23:53.00 | liambeeblebrox | And thats it? |
| 23:53.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl some middleware bits where the hw differs too much so we can't hide the differences in kernel hacks |
| 23:53.27 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah yeah |
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| 23:54.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | we haven't tackled the low-level kernel stuff yet, since the hw isn't even feature-frozen yet |
| 23:54.39 | liambeeblebrox | Yeah, who's responsible for hardware? |
| 23:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | me |
| 23:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Nikolaus of GoldeliCo, who's never around here |
| 23:55.28 | liambeeblebrox | Really? |
| 23:55.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | rally what? |
| 23:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | really even |
| 23:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Really Nikolaus never around here? dunno for sure, who might, it's the internet you know ;-) |
| 23:56.41 | liambeeblebrox | No, really you're doing the hardware |
| 23:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, so far I'm trying to coordinate and evaluate stuff |
| 23:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus will do the layout probably |
| 23:57.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | today I sent a N900 to him for disassembling and checking "what's the deal" |
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| 23:58.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | he built GTA04 (with marginal help from me), I once built GTA02 ;-) |
| 23:58.32 | liambeeblebrox | Okay. |
| 23:58.43 | liambeeblebrox | What does the GTA stand for? |
| 23:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually nobody knows - FIC heritage |
| 23:59.22 | liambeeblebrox | Right |
| 23:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | "General Telephony Appliance" or whatever |
| 23:59.36 | liambeeblebrox | Haha, yeah |
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