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| 00:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah |
| 00:28.33 | jonwil | Question, would a "this is the problem with audio on the Neo900 and these are the solutions" type thing be better on the wiki or the forum? |
| 00:43.21 | FIQ | huh, that's kinda weird |
| 00:44.03 | FIQ | ran fsck from BM, didn't do a thing apparently.. tried fsck -nv on the /opt afterwards when in maemo - considered clean, all fine and good |
| 00:44.42 | FIQ | then I open xchat, and it can't open its' logs, I check, they're corrupted.. and now fsck -nv tells more or less that the entire fs is broken |
| 00:45.32 | FIQ | I don't really understand what fsck.ext2 really does (beyond attempting to repairr the file system) as I don't know how EXT works |
| 00:45.42 | FIQ | but that... doesn't make much sense to me |
| 00:46.10 | FIQ | ah well, guess I'll have to restore root+opt to last backup as usual |
| 00:46.45 | FIQ | whatever goes wrong with the file system, it's ALWAYS the xchat logs |
| 00:47.08 | FIQ | is there a filesize limit? should I back up my logs at the computer and restart them from scratch? |
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| 00:48.09 | FIQ | it's possible that this will solve all my issues regarding corruption but I dunno |
| 00:49.49 | FIQ | xchatlogs is 363M (or something around it - pretty much all logs are corrupt atm as I haven't restored yet), /opt has 189M (i.e. 9%) free.. dunno what's safe and not |
| 00:50.26 | FIQ | it's the biggest part of the /opt for me by far |
| 00:54.15 | mashina | holy shit, you need al those logs on device? |
| 00:54.26 | mashina | put them on an sd card and wipe your logs |
| 00:55.29 | mashina | like scrollback is enough log for me |
| 00:55.44 | FIQ | no I don't need them on device at all |
| 00:55.53 | FIQ | I do like preserving the logs though |
| 00:56.02 | FIQ | should probably backup them somewhere else |
| 00:56.09 | mashina | even an sd card |
| 00:56.22 | FIQ | after all they're like 2 years old or something |
| 00:56.50 | mashina | i never save logs |
| 00:57.04 | mashina | except xchat scrollback but that has a limiot afaik |
| 00:57.17 | FIQ | I always do, everywhere I run a client, unless I forgot to :P |
| 00:57.43 | FIQ | but yeah, should get them somewhere so they'll not hurt the fs over and over |
| 00:58.02 | FIQ | forcing me to go to backup.. |
| 00:58.05 | mashina | i have a bouncer, but it's a specialized software that only has desktop client |
| 00:58.16 | mashina | could be easily ported though |
| 00:58.25 | FIQ | specialized bouncer...? why |
| 00:58.32 | FIQ | I use ZNC myself |
| 00:58.34 | mashina | gtk# is ported to mameo |
| 00:58.48 | FIQ | Not the logging part of it though, but it should be trivial to turn on |
| 00:58.52 | mashina | i use smuxi - it feels a lot more elegant than a traditionl bnc |
| 00:58.57 | FIQ | then I wouldn't need logging at all :P |
| 00:59.05 | FIQ | (besides that znc instance) |
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| 01:02.22 | SpeedEvil | quassel is another option |
| 01:02.41 | mashina | quassel and smuxi are two similar clients |
| 01:03.15 | mashina | i prefer smuxi myself as i support my C# on unix brethereb after rms led lynch mobs thinned their numbers |
| 01:03.35 | mashina | also dev is cool and i help him with bugs |
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| 01:19.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: wiki, definitely |
| 01:20.02 | jonwil | ok |
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| 01:48.12 | jonwil | Now creating http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Audio |
| 01:48.38 | jonwil | Going to state the goal, the problem and the theoretical solutions |
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| 05:11.30 | jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Audio |
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| 07:18.43 | Macer | hm. my ms surface is showing up today |
| 07:18.47 | Macer | hope it can bt tether to the n900 |
| 07:18.48 | Macer | heh |
| 07:19.02 | Macer | although it says it can adhoc so i'll believe it when i see it |
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| 08:47.59 | kerio | Pali: mmh, can't bme replacement charge from a usb host when g_ether is loaded? |
| 08:50.08 | Pali | kerio: do not know, usb gadget must ask for 500mA from usb host |
| 08:50.25 | kerio | i thought all usb gadget modules did that |
| 08:50.31 | Pali | no |
| 08:50.50 | Pali | only those which have specified it in source file |
| 08:51.03 | Pali | or maybe it is possible to change also via sysfs - but do not know |
| 08:51.33 | Pali | kerio: and patches for gadget drivers are rejected, read what I wrote to #maemo-ssu |
| 08:52.47 | kerio | daaaaamn, usb networking is so much faster than wifi or bt pan |
| 08:52.58 | kerio | the lack of lag is the most surprising thing |
| 08:53.04 | Wizzup | still randomly get broken pipes though |
| 08:53.20 | kerio | maybe your pipes |
| 08:53.28 | kerio | my pipes are stronk |
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| 09:14.50 | kerio | ok, this is silly |
| 09:15.10 | kerio | i synchronized my n900's clock this morning |
| 09:15.19 | kerio | and now it's at -1.5s again |
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| 09:48.55 | sledges | hello |
| 09:49.06 | sledges | does n900 TV out cable have any pins mixed up? |
| 09:49.32 | sledges | or I can use a standard RGB tulips and 3+1 pin stereo jack? |
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| 09:58.29 | Macer | kerio: but then you need a cable connected |
| 09:58.41 | Macer | who wants that? it isn't 2003 anymore |
| 09:58.43 | kerio | well ofc |
| 09:58.47 | kerio | on the other hand |
| 09:58.51 | Macer | heh |
| 09:58.56 | kerio | you can actually see you typing as you type |
| 09:59.27 | Macer | hm |
| 09:59.37 | Macer | i was using bt dun a few minutes ago |
| 09:59.42 | Macer | it wasnt laggy at all |
| 10:04.38 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer05: does the GTA04 motherboard have all the same kinds of hardware as the N900? (fm transmitter etc) |
| 10:06.37 | entitled | cool, was that N900 that featured in breaking bad S05E14? |
| 10:06.45 | entitled | "your fancy phone" |
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| 12:43.14 | oooaaaooo | hi guys ive installed a couple of apps that dont seem to show up in the app screen; other than command line is there a graphical way to find them? |
| 12:43.24 | oooaaaooo | also is "faster app manager" any good? |
| 12:45.09 | jonwil | "faster app manager" is NOT good |
| 12:45.58 | jonwil | or so says the experts around here every time someone brings up the subject :) |
| 12:47.00 | oooaaaooo | ok |
| 12:47.21 | oooaaaooo | how do i scan through installed apps that dont show up in the app screen |
| 12:47.28 | gomiam | well, FAM is quite helpful when you want to install many things at once, but it doesn't show all packages either |
| 12:47.38 | gomiam | oooaaaooo: I go the apt-cache search route :) |
| 12:47.53 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: howbout ui? maybe an app? |
| 12:48.11 | gomiam | oooaaaooo: I don't remember if there is a version of synaptic for maemo... |
| 12:48.15 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: does HAM have a installed apps menu? |
| 12:48.21 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: :P |
| 12:48.23 | inz | maemo - there's no app for that |
| 12:49.08 | gomiam | oooaaaooo: kinda, if you go to the uninstall section it shows what is installed |
| 12:49.14 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: ok |
| 12:49.24 | gomiam | and yes, you can install synaptic on maemo (at least on n900) |
| 12:49.40 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: oh? |
| 12:49.46 | gomiam | just checked |
| 12:49.54 | gomiam | let me see what the repository is |
| 12:50.38 | gomiam | it seems to be at http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle non-free |
| 12:50.46 | gomiam | its being non-free is a bit of a surprise thougfh |
| 12:52.21 | oooaaaooo | hmm |
| 12:53.54 | gomiam | the good part of it is you probably have it already available |
| 12:53.59 | oooaaaooo | i downloaded the sixaxis package and cant see any icon for it |
| 12:54.20 | oooaaaooo | gomiam: what in the cat? |
| 12:55.16 | gomiam | oooaaaooo: synaptic, a GUI package manager for Debian and Ubuntu that seems to be available on Fremantle too |
| 13:01.06 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: GTA04 actually has IrDA |
| 13:01.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, thought as much |
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| 13:01.39 | dos1 | there's just no kernel driver for it |
| 13:02.18 | dos1 | Nikolaus pointed it out regarding table on website ;) |
| 13:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if you need many drivers for SIR |
| 13:03.33 | dos1 | yeah, it's probably easy, just no one has done it yet |
| 13:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | SIR basically is "replace rs232 cable by a lightbeam", literally |
| 13:05.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | just that the 1 bits are not 100% but 3/18 of a bit length iirc |
| 13:05.40 | kerio | is it actually useful for anything except for universal remotes, nowadays? |
| 13:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it's on UART3 it is *very* convenient to get boot console ;-) |
| 13:07.03 | kerio | ooh, neat |
| 13:07.13 | kerio | ...if only i had *anything else* with irda |
| 13:08.05 | kerio | can't we get a usb serial console? |
| 13:08.06 | kerio | like, emulate a ftdi chip |
| 13:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that should get done in kernel |
| 13:09.36 | kerio | during boot time? |
| 13:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw USB can even do "true serial" |
| 13:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | D+ = TX, D- = RX |
| 13:12.33 | SpeedEvil | On n900 hardware? |
| 13:13.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's a cpommon feature of USB cores |
| 13:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | common even |
| 13:17.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I'm wrong, coffee deficit |
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| 13:17.46 | pabs3 | does GTA04 have FM? |
| 13:17.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB specs list it as a standard mode |
| 13:17.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 13:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | "even with RDS" |
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| 13:19.06 | RST38h | moos |
| 13:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | mooeerrks *cough* |
| 13:20.39 | dos1 | N900 doesn't have RDS support in reciever, does it? |
| 13:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it has afaik |
| 13:21.32 | dos1 | k |
| 13:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04: SI4721BG, N900: SI4705(?) |
| 13:21.58 | wnd | at least it can show channel info |
| 13:22.22 | wnd | not sure if that qualifies it as rds-capable, though |
| 13:22.32 | dos1 | ok, I remember sending RDS via transmitter, just weren't sure if rx had it too |
| 13:22.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | it does |
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| 13:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | though *all* that audio stuff gives us some headache, since it's completely different between GTA04 and N900 |
| 13:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, nokia did it, we can do as well ;-) |
| 13:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | tlv320aic34 is sourcable in million quatities and single chips |
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| 13:28.02 | jonwil | DocScrutinizer05: http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Audio |
| 13:28.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | give me some 30min to wake up |
| 13:28.25 | jonwil | ok :) |
| 13:29.11 | RST38h | IMPLEMENT WHOLE N900 IN AN FPGA! |
| 13:29.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. the SI4721BG is connected to SoC via McBSP |
| 13:29.21 | RST38h | hides, will shut up now |
| 13:30.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: that's for next decade. You know the C64 also took ten years to come as chip in the joystick |
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| 13:36.40 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@89-235-241-147.saturn.infonet.ee) |
| 13:37.36 | jonwil | So basically the issues are whether our decompile of policy-settings-rx51 is accurate (and whether changes are required to reflect hardware/software differences), how we can decompile policy.dresc (and whether changes are required to reflect hardware/software differences), what to do about the cellular audio issue and whether pasr, alsa-policy-enforcement or pulseaudio-nokia need any changes... |
| 13:37.38 | jonwil | ...to reflect hardware/software differences other than the cellular audio problem |
| 13:38.14 | Sysaxed | what is neo900 |
| 13:38.21 | dos1 | ~neo900 |
| 13:38.21 | infobot | [neo900] at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/ |
| 13:38.57 | Sysaxed | holy shit, are you kidding me :O |
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| 13:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | heh, I don't even know how to spell "kidding" |
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| 13:43.08 | Sysaxed | omg I'm about to start crying |
| 13:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? about that waste of energy? |
| 13:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | since many think it's exactly that |
| 13:44.36 | Sysaxed | shhh, let me dream a little bit! |
| 13:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 13:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe a new fan |
| 13:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you will want to *read* the whole http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 to get *really* excited. It gets better with every bit of additional info you receive |
| 13:47.22 | jonwil | Neo900 got another mention on slashdot |
| 13:47.23 | jonwil | http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4227097&cid=44881285 |
| 13:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 13:47.31 | Sysaxed | I've always been a fan, but I was unable to see any future for n900 |
| 13:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | now there is |
| 13:47.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 13:48.29 | n900-dk | how should one address an issue with the LTE chip in the neo900? |
| 13:48.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's commonly considered that HARM and N9 been a move into the wrong direction, now we gonna correct this |
| 13:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk: an issue? |
| 13:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk: what issues do you have? |
| 13:49.48 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer05: time to submit it to /. and hackernews? |
| 13:50.07 | n900-dk | is doesn't support LTE on 800MHz |
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| 13:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | pabs3: dos1 and me are about to do - though it seems somebody was faster than us? see above |
| 13:50.39 | jonwil | That was just a comment in another thread |
| 13:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 13:50.51 | jonwil | We need an actual story I guess |
| 13:50.58 | pabs3 | agreed |
| 13:51.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1, GeneralAntilles, and me will draft a nice thread starter post for /. |
| 13:51.25 | pabs3 | I never actually used the N900, is the touchscreen good? |
| 13:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | excellent |
| 13:51.48 | n900-dk | several European mobile operators have LTE on the 800MHz band, so it should be supported |
| 13:51.48 | jonwil | Hey, if a Crapberry phone can get a story, surely a phone like the Neo900 can get a story |
| 13:52.21 | Humpelstilzchen | Hi, just wanted to drop a "Happy to see plans for a n900 future" |
| 13:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the difference to gta02 panel is like the differnce between sweet buttercream and concrete |
| 13:52.29 | Sysaxed | pabs3: it is perfect |
| 13:52.49 | jonwil | n900-dk, if you can find an LTE module that supports the bands you need, that's available in small quantities and that is open enough for the Neo900, feel free to suggest |
| 13:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk: alas we don't have mucjh options but Option modules |
| 13:52.53 | Humpelstilzchen | pabs3: depends on if you prefer resistive or capacitive touch |
| 13:53.34 | n900-dk | the Telit LE920 4g/LTE Module seems to have support for 800MHz |
| 13:54.12 | jonwil | but I bet telit wont sell to you unless you are ordering big numbers |
| 13:54.17 | Sysaxed | depends on if you're a potato-brained-WOOOWWW-MULTITOUCH-5-finger-gestures guy... |
| 13:54.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk: we did literally years of checking what options we have for cellular. It's about availability, documentation, price, size, whatnot else |
| 13:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Option is almost perfect |
| 13:55.01 | dos1 | option is a best option for us :) |
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| 13:55.26 | n900-dk | e.g. LTE on Deutsche Telekom will not be an option then |
| 13:55.36 | n900-dk | or TDC in Denmark |
| 13:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I checked the Telit modules and the company some 2 yeras ago, can't recall much about it right now. But rest ashured we try hard to find the best modem we can get, since it would be insane to go for anything less than the best option |
| 13:56.50 | n900-dk | but pretty stupid to make the same mistake as Apple did with the iPhone5.. |
| 13:57.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Option may come up with an improved modem module eventually, and i'd hope it is as pin compatible and drop-in replacement as the 601 and 609 and 801 |
| 13:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even a 801i |
| 13:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | you dissolder the 801 and solder in the 801i, eh? |
| 13:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | deal? |
| 13:58.51 | jonwil | So does the Option modem support Quad Band GSM/EDGE? |
| 13:58.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course if that 801i appears before we start MP, we will try hard to swap |
| 13:59.09 | jonwil | And does it support UMTS on 850, 900 and 2100? |
| 13:59.32 | dos1 | n900-dk: well, it'd be hardly "an mistake" here, as that's our limitation, not concious design choice "let's not include LTE on 800!" |
| 14:00.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.roundsolutions.com/shop/products/en/Modules-and-accessories/LTE-Module/GTM801-thinnest-LGA-4G-LGA-Module.html |
| 14:00.25 | jake42 | jonwil: yes and yes (according to datasheet) |
| 14:00.39 | n900-dk | yeah you are right, but why loose a lot of potential users already from day 1 |
| 14:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | because we have no better options |
| 14:01.06 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@eduroam-224.fi.muni.cz) |
| 14:01.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are other - maybe technically better - modules, but they are *huge* |
| 14:02.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what to do? swap battery lid for mugen cover? |
| 14:02.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | to fit the telit in? |
| 14:02.28 | n900-dk | ok, it was just a heads up, to make sure someone thought about this issue |
| 14:02.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | rest assured we think about such topics all day and night |
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| 14:03.38 | *** join/#maemo iDont (~iDont@ip4da305b4.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 14:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're fanatic to build THE BEST product we could come up with |
| 14:03.57 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~quassel@206.208.136.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:04.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | every single missed out opportunity, every single little oopsie is a personal embarrassment to us |
| 14:04.42 | dos1 | let's come up with 16-core 20GHz and 128 GB RAM, why loose potential users? :D |
| 14:05.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway many thanks for bringing it up, please continue with input, we can use as much of it as we can get |
| 14:05.15 | *** part/#maemo Custodian (~Custodian@46.39.225.253) |
| 14:05.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: no sarcasm needed, n900-dk's concerns are perfectly sane and helpful as well |
| 14:05.58 | jonwil | Its not clear from that GTM801 page if it really supports UMTS900 or not |
| 14:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: the get the datasheet |
| 14:06.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | then* |
| 14:07.07 | jonwil | About the only band it doesn't support is 1700MHz UMTS for T-Mobile USA |
| 14:07.13 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:07.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | though: > >UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA/HSPA+/DCHSPA +800-850/1900/2100/AWS MHz (B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6) at 42 Mbps DL/5.7 6Mbps UL max speed<< |
| 14:07.23 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@206.208.136.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 14:08.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6 is pretty specific |
| 14:08.26 | jonwil | That seems to be a different page to the one I am looking at |
| 14:08.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.roundsolutions.com/shop/products/en/Modules-and-accessories/LTE-Module/GTM801-thinnest-LGA-4G-LGA-Module.html |
| 14:08.46 | jonwil | I am looking at http://www.roundsolutions.com/techdocs/ds/GTM801U.pdf which says "900" |
| 14:09.00 | jonwil | 800-850/900/1900/2100 |
| 14:09.29 | dos1 | looks like there are two versions |
| 14:09.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH |
| 14:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | > >FDD-LTE :700/850/1900/AWS MHz (B2/B4 /B5/B17) at 100 Mbps DL/50 Mbps UL<< |
| 14:09.49 | dos1 | 800/900/1800/2100/2600 (E), 700/850/1900/AWS (U) |
| 14:09.55 | dos1 | with LTE |
| 14:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | given the multitude of bands the TX/RX section supports, and the fact that the difference between GSM, UMTS, and LTE is mostly the modulation/protocol, I guess it's just a question of firmware to support bands on radio-technology-Y that already are available freq at any other supported radio-technology of the module |
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| 14:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | now starts to regret that he didn't work on radio stack when jobbing for ST-E |
| 14:15.16 | jonwil | Sounds like Option has modems that do most of the frequency bands out there |
| 14:15.33 | jonwil | its just a matter of picking the one needed for your carrier/country |
| 14:15.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would be surprised if they didn't |
| 14:16.26 | jonwil | and it seems like the different versions are probably hardware/software/pin compatible (it would be stupid to not do it that way) |
| 14:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway for even further supplementary info check the chipset: QualcomMDM9215/9615 |
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| 14:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Option for sure doesn't build teir own radio stack firmware for the chipset they use |
| 14:19.40 | jonwil | I suspect it should be possible to produce the Neo900 with options for different-frequency pin/hw/sw-compatible Option modems (in the same way as the old GTA02 had variants for different frequencies since it wasnt quad-band GSM) |
| 14:20.20 | dos1 | yup |
| 14:20.38 | dos1 | the same way you'll be able to choose between 601, 609 and 801 |
| 14:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yeah, Roundsolutions says B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6 in one page and B1, B2, B5, B6, B8 in the other sheet, for UMTS |
| 14:22.23 | jonwil | what good is the CDMA choice given that the networks that support CDMA? (i.e. sprint, Verizon) wont let you activate any phone not originally sold for their network |
| 14:23.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | not our problem ;-) |
| 14:23.18 | jaska | sounds like a good reason to sue them <.< |
| 14:23.28 | jaska | and to not use cdma.. or buy phones from operators |
| 14:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: we just offer Option options (God, I love this pun) |
| 14:24.26 | jaska | optional options |
| 14:24.59 | jonwil | makes sense, if it will fit on the PCB and if Option (or whoever resells Option parts) will sell it to you then there is no reason not to offer it as a choice :) |
| 14:25.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems the Option GTM801 either has unclear fuzzy specs or actually comes in different variants |
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| 14:25.46 | jonwil | It probably does come in multiple versions |
| 14:25.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | roundsolutions is our reseller |
| 14:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice guys |
| 14:26.09 | jonwil | ok |
| 14:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | they know us by name ;-) |
| 14:26.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | they have awesome antennae as well, btw |
| 14:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and other nice stuff |
| 14:32.25 | jonwil | so are we going to be using the same bluetooth, FMRX and FMTX as the GTA04? |
| 14:35.42 | jonwil | I would assume we would since I doubt we would be able to get hold of the BCM2048... :) |
| 14:35.57 | jonwil | Broadcomm isn't known for selling its parts in low volumes |
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| 14:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, severe security threat in MSIE6..11, outlook, OE, windows mail, winXP..win8 |
| 14:50.37 | jonwil | heh |
| 14:50.43 | freemangordon | what a surprise :) |
| 14:50.46 | jonwil | I dont use Intercrap Exploder |
| 14:50.50 | dos1 | totally unexpected |
| 14:50.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely |
| 14:51.51 | jonwil | I suspect at some point we may need to clone pulseaudio-nokia-* if we really want to move forward :P |
| 14:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: WLAN/BT and FM(rx|tx) are unchanged from GTA04, yes |
| 14:52.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | as of now |
| 14:52.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | *maybe* we find a better WLAN(/BT) module that gives us less headache with SoC interface assignment |
| 14:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | but chances for that are _very_ low |
| 14:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | finding good WLAN modules is a PITA |
| 14:55.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | about general audio, I have to have a loooong phonecall with Nikolaus about getting original N900 audio gear into Neo900, as that's the only way forward for FPTF project I see feasible |
| 14:55.25 | Humpelstilzchen | DocScrutinizer05: Not TI wilink like in panda? |
| 14:55.27 | jonwil | Yes that is definatly the right way to go |
| 14:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | read: tlv320aic34 |
| 14:56.24 | jonwil | Will we be using TWL4030 (or something that has compatible audio bits)? |
| 14:57.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | then we still face annoyances like Si4721BG connected audio to SoC via McBSP instead tof the analog way used in N900 for FMTX |
| 14:57.43 | jonwil | FMTX/FMRX isn't as big a deal for audio since those subsystems seem somewhat separated from the rest of the audio system in Fremantle |
| 14:57.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems twl4030 audio is flawed, according to ujXXXX-forgot-his-name |
| 14:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | poor audio quality |
| 14:58.58 | jonwil | ok, so N900 isn't using twl4030 audio bits? |
| 14:59.09 | jonwil | if it isn't then its not an issue for us |
| 14:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | not at all afaik - verification pending |
| 14:59.28 | jonwil | ok |
| 14:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | just a pity to "waste" all those functions we already paid for |
| 15:00.13 | *** join/#maemo jmlich_ (jmlich@nat/redhat/x-izpilqymmbfcsduz) |
| 15:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | but when they are crap, we happily bin them |
| 15:00.32 | jonwil | I think the goal should be to make the Neo900 audio system as close to the N900 audio system as we can get |
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| 15:00.41 | dos1 | add some contact pads for twl4030 so hw hackers will be able to use it |
| 15:00.57 | dos1 | (dunno if it makes sense, just quick idea ;)) |
| 15:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly - we CANNOT redesign _all_ that nasty audio blobs in fremantle to match a new hw |
| 15:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: an excellent idea |
| 15:01.40 | jonwil | there will still be a need for reverse engineering of N900 pulseaudio-nokia blobs to identify things |
| 15:01.50 | jonwil | or partial reverse engineering at least |
| 15:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 15:02.09 | jonwil | cellmo audio at least |
| 15:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that. yes |
| 15:02.20 | jonwil | Read what I wrote on the "audio" page on wiki |
| 15:02.37 | jonwil | that covers our options and what we need to do going forward |
| 15:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope to plumb new cellmo in a way audio (ped) doesn't notice a difference |
| 15:03.47 | kerio | it's not like the phone part actually matters |
| 15:03.57 | jonwil | remember that pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice (and embedded static copy of libcmtspeech) talks very specific interface to BB5 modem |
| 15:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohplease! |
| 15:04.19 | jonwil | hence why pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice is such a problem for us |
| 15:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: yes, I'm aware, and that will be a HUGE headache to us, but once we hacked that everything else will "just work" |
| 15:04.44 | kerio | just embed a ham radio :P |
| 15:05.00 | kerio | wouldn't we tie ourselves to the fremantle dialer, this way? |
| 15:05.08 | kerio | s/dialer/phone stack/ or something |
| 15:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | (libcmtspeech/pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice) |
| 15:05.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no, just as we are ot tied to fremantle dialer right now |
| 15:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you already can start a call via pnat ATD<any-number> |
| 15:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and end the call via ATH |
| 15:07.19 | RST38h | mmm |
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| 15:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it's actually just about audio |
| 15:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically about a virtual "soundcard" |
| 15:10.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, basically cmt *should* be just another ALSA soundcard |
| 15:10.10 | jonwil | but its not |
| 15:10.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas it's not, in fremantle |
| 15:11.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | in SHR I suggested that approach, and I think they adopted it or at least planned to adopt it in future |
| 15:12.27 | jonwil | I strongly suspect we will need to clone libcmtspeech/pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice (using the Meego/Harmattan bits to help with that). That or go with giant hacks sitting in the kernel to convert "BB5" |
| 15:12.38 | jonwil | "BB5" flavor audio into "option" flavor audio |
| 15:12.47 | jonwil | audio and audio related commands |
| 15:12.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, either of those two |
| 15:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody said cmt will be easy |
| 15:13.34 | jonwil | cellular audio is now shaping up as the #1 hardest part of the entire FPTF project |
| 15:14.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we *definitely* will get cmt to work, easily, when we don't care about fremantle/hildon integration and use our own dialer. That's an option for early POC show-off though. As well as for very-long-term goals to transform fremantle into something completely free |
| 15:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I think fremantle audio is thorougly flawed by design, to start with. Alas we won't be able to replace it by something better or more open, at least not during next 6 months |
| 15:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | then whole ped concept is one huge abomination |
| 15:17.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the* |
| 15:17.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and PA is... well peottering. nuff said about that |
| 15:18.26 | jonwil | the more I think about this, the more I suspect the list of packages we will need to reverse engineer or clone for the Neo900 is going to be larger than it looks at first glance |
| 15:18.37 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD288CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, isn't that quite the opposite of what you said ~4 days ago? |
| 15:19.29 | jonwil | that was 4 days ago before I looked deeper into this |
| 15:19.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 15:19.46 | jonwil | Whats the plan for camera? Use same cameras as N900? Use GTA04 camera? Use something else? |
| 15:19.50 | jonwil | Undecided? |
| 15:19.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 cam |
| 15:19.57 | dos1 | but before that, at the very beginning, you said the same as now :) |
| 15:20.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100% compatibility |
| 15:20.21 | dos1 | jonwil: it's even on http://neo900.org/ now :D |
| 15:20.44 | jonwil | ok, in that case we can move the camera bits onto the "stuff we dont need to clone" list |
| 15:21.27 | jonwil | since we are using identical cameras and camera interface (I assume OMAP3430 and 3730 camera interface bits are compatible...) |
| 15:22.30 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: I decided to add screen details etc to the table, as people coming from Openmoko/OpenPhoenux community may also see Neo900 as upgrade for GTA04 (hw keyboard, bigger screen without bezel, camera etc.) |
| 15:23.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: werner almesberger complained that the list comparing features is already a list of features and not a mere comparison, and thus he'd expect basics like screen etc there as well |
| 15:23.10 | dos1 | or there may be people who skipped GTA04, but will want to upgrade GTA02 with Neo900 |
| 15:23.13 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: yup, seen that |
| 15:23.27 | jonwil | anyone know if 3430 and 3730 DSP bits are compatible? |
| 15:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: i'd hope cam IF is 100% compatible between 3430 and 3730, yes |
| 15:24.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | same for DSP I hope |
| 15:24.24 | dos1 | and when Nikolaus suggested including storage info, I've added everything that came to my mind to that list |
| 15:25.16 | jonwil | if camera IF isnt 100% compatible, I bet we can hide the differences in kernel drivers :) |
| 15:25.31 | dos1 | if there's anything I missed feel free to ping me |
| 15:25.38 | *** join/#maemo DHR (~hugh@CPE00606767ed59-CM000f9fa81660.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: [2013-09-18 15:59:25] <Pali> freemangordon: I moved et8ek8 firmware into kernel drive r[2013-09-18 15:59:45] <Pali> so driver does not need external "firmware" from userspace |
| 15:26.41 | Pali | just to note et8ek8 firmware file is only kernel C structure with some data |
| 15:26.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: (hide in kernel) yep, definitely. The original idea about FPTF |
| 15:26.48 | dos1 | at some point I even had LEDs and buttons listed there, but then I realised it's starting to go into too much detail ;) |
| 15:26.51 | Pali | so it is not "real" firmware |
| 15:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: we have a hard time finding a solution for the fast swap either |
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| 15:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's largely unclear if those §32GB flash + 2GB RAM" eMMC chips actually have one bus for both, or a dedicated bus for each. The latter would render it useless for our purposes |
| 15:30.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/§/"/ |
| 15:30.59 | n900-dk | What could be a realistic ETA for the Neo900, if it will become a piece of hardware in the future? |
| 15:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | mid of 2014 |
| 15:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe faster |
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| 15:33.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | with first (still buggy) prototypes to show off coming up and of this year maybe |
| 15:33.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ an/ en/ |
| 15:37.16 | jonwil | At this point I think the 5 closed packages likely to cause us the most headaches are pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice, policy-settings-rx51, mce, libsim0 and location-daemon with honorable mention to location-proxy, csd-call and csd-sms |
| 15:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: you got no GTA04? |
| 15:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: sounds about right |
| 15:38.31 | Humpelstilzchen | is location-daemon needed for anything but nokia maps? |
| 15:38.51 | jonwil | its needed for all GPS apps |
| 15:39.00 | jonwil | i.e. anything that talks GPS |
| 15:39.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe list them on a wiki page as section headlines, discussing in each section the way this "system" is entangled into fremantle, how it gets involved into Neo900 changes, and the impact it has when we won't tackle/fix it for Neo900 |
| 15:39.42 | Humpelstilzchen | but the other programms could be ported to gpsd.. |
| 15:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | gypsy |
| 15:40.56 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: nope, just GTA02 |
| 15:41.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I elaborated on GPS somewhere |
| 15:41.30 | dos1 | I can buy one 700 EUR phone if I really want to, but two of them is a bit too much :D |
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| 15:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 15:43.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | just wondering who's available for testing fremantle ports to GTA04 platform |
| 15:44.13 | cehteh | methinks 700eur is already far to much for what one gets :/ |
| 15:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that it gives us much of new knowledge |
| 15:44.52 | cehteh | anyway kudos to the project but i am out there, unless the price substantially drops |
| 15:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: well, that's your mileage |
| 15:45.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: alas price won't drop |
| 15:45.22 | cehteh | too bad |
| 15:46.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless some chip and PCB manufs decide to give us stuff for free or at least at a pricetag they offer to customers buying 1000000 |
| 15:46.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | or HEY, until WE buy 1000000 |
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| 15:47.35 | cehteh | i wonder if you should approach other projects who have better connections, olpc, raspberry pi foundation etc |
| 15:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody has |
| 15:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless they have exactly same BOM as we do |
| 15:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | they as well would need to buy 200 units DM3730 SoC |
| 15:49.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and they usually don't get the discount they got for that other chip they bought 1 mio |
| 15:49.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | when they buy only 200 |
| 15:49.14 | cehteh | i know |
| 15:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it makes no difference |
| 15:50.33 | cehteh | do you have some supply for case/screen meanwhile .. i think a lot cases/screens are aging and detorating |
| 15:51.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, there's fleabay. We got no "better" source yet |
| 15:51.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | case (strictly the shell only, incl keymat) is ~17EUR |
| 15:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | LCD is ~23 |
| 15:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can get all sorts of combinations, like slide mech with FPC (ribbon) and LCD |
| 15:53.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh we only did a cursory scan for all that stuff so far |
| 15:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure getting a used (broken?) N900 and swap the MoBo is the better alternative for our customers. But many don't want to do this |
| 15:56.21 | brolin_empey | freemangordon: Pali: Any news regarding my 2 kernel-power patches? |
| 15:56.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | fun detail: often the combi is cheaper than one of the parts it contains |
| 15:57.06 | Pali | brolin_empey: sorry did not have time :-( now we have problem with someone on LKML |
| 15:57.12 | dion_ | I think that until it became 100% working nobody will break working phone |
| 15:57.25 | Pali | brolin_empey: but I got another patch from pavel for kernel-power |
| 15:57.30 | Pali | so I will test both |
| 15:59.13 | cehteh | so .. just glued the small metall plate which holds the standup against the magnet back into place ... grr .. but at least it didnt got lost when it came loose |
| 16:00.52 | cehteh | btw are there any more specs about the jolla phone out yet? |
| 16:01.01 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 16:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 16:03.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | jolla is not GolDeliCo ;-) |
| 16:05.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's commercial as in: build product, sell product with a crippled list of fuzzy specs, get the money, eventually disclose the docs |
| 16:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | GolDeliCo does: publish the docs, publish the specs based on docs, get the money, sell the product ;-) |
| 16:06.12 | kerio | mmh |
| 16:06.33 | kerio | so far, hasn't it been "promise product with crippled list of fuzzy specs, get the money"? |
| 16:07.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I don't count any "promise" as anything relevant |
| 16:07.24 | kerio | so it's just "get the money" for now |
| 16:07.28 | kerio | no actual product yet |
| 16:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, you're right, that's state of things with jolla |
| 16:08.38 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 16:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | (<kerio> no actual product yet) ooh, I git a fine t-shirt for 100EUR ;-P |
| 16:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | got* |
| 16:10.28 | kerio | did you actually get it? |
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| 16:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I will claim I never did, since then I'm still waiting for Jolla to deliver, and I can step down from the contract |
| 16:11.20 | brolin_empey | Pali: Which problem with whom on (the) LKML? |
| 16:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | for full refund |
| 16:12.03 | kerio | so you're cheating them off the tshirt! :C |
| 16:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMG |
| 16:12.23 | Pali | brolin_empey: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/8/33 |
| 16:12.24 | kerio | is it good quality at least? |
| 16:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | only when they try to cheat me off my 100EUR |
| 16:13.02 | brolin_empey | Pali: And which Pavel? PaulFertser? |
| 16:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, prolly not |
| 16:13.14 | Pali | no Pavel Machek |
| 16:13.28 | freemangordon | it is a nice read :) |
| 16:14.11 | Pali | https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/18/46 |
| 16:15.18 | brolin_empey | Pali: If you lack time, maybe you need to include time.h ? ;-) |
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| 16:19.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/18/46 |
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| 16:36.21 | SAiF | memory automatically changes to readonly.? |
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| 16:40.09 | SAiF | Doc: |
| 16:50.19 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: so what to do with that idiot? |
| 16:50.57 | Pali | if somebody is unable to find one line patch in email.... |
| 16:51.46 | freemangordon | Pali: I tink his point is that it belongs to a different patch. Not that he is not arrogant |
| 16:54.27 | SAiF | hmm, MyDocs get readonly automaticaly, what could be causing this? |
| 16:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: stay cool |
| 16:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: your last post been the right answer |
| 16:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | "... or explain why" |
| 16:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | bitching at those guys reproducibly doesn't help |
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| 16:59.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk |
| 17:00.12 | SAiF | hmm |
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| 17:04.27 | NIN101 | SAiF: for a start, take a look at dmesg for some hints. |
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| 17:07.17 | SAiF | it even shows up after a delay while startup |
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| 20:51.02 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: how's /. story going on? when should I be prepared to defend the server with my own body? (or at least get some popcorn for watching logs with logstalgia?) :) |
| 20:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | stalled, no mail to improve on and forward to GeneralAntilles to even further improve it |
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| 20:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | GA asked for a mail that tells him what sory we want to transport |
| 20:52.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | story even |
| 20:53.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm poor at sketching stories |
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| 20:57.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like "after Nokia hit the sack, and OM Inc. went oblivion long ago, now after the failing big5's efforts with spyFone8, buntkuh-edge, whatnot else, finally the still vivid Openmoko community and there particularly GolDeliCo joined forces with the orphaned maemo community to make a dream come true, the painfully missed successor of N900 and same time the nextgen device to GTA02/04"... blabla |
| 20:59.02 | r00t|home | is that neo900 seriously going to happen? |
| 20:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure as hell we will try to make it happen |
| 20:59.21 | Sysaxed | r00t|home: even if not, let me us dream! |
| 20:59.23 | Sysaxed | -me* |
| 20:59.34 | r00t|home | heh |
| 20:59.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 20:59.47 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: Is there any way to help? |
| 20:59.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~neo900 |
| 20:59.49 | infobot | somebody said neo900 was at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/ |
| 21:00.02 | dos1 | actually, it's just a preparation for next years April Fools, but shhh, you haven't heard it from me! |
| 21:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: join the movement, spread the word |
| 21:00.31 | r00t|home | well, it's a nice idea, but sorry, it doesn't seem realistic to me... |
| 21:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: sorry, you haven't seen the whole picture then |
| 21:01.16 | dos1 | r00t|home: what I like in this project is that it's massively basing on work which was already done |
| 21:01.18 | r00t|home | i'd be in at the 300eur price point maybe, tell me when you found the 9999 other buyers |
| 21:01.23 | dos1 | either for GTA04 or N900 |
| 21:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus and myself are no spleeny schoolkids. We know our shite |
| 21:01.43 | dos1 | which makes it really realistic, at least in my eyes |
| 21:02.03 | dos1 | much more realistic than any other idea for similar community-based device I've ever heard |
| 21:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed GTA04 been WAAAY less realistic |
| 21:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | still it became reality |
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| 21:03.17 | dos1 | yup, I was skeptical on the initial announcements, even if there were already working Openmoko Beagle Hybrid boards |
| 21:03.23 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: how would spreading the word help? |
| 21:03.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | compared to GTA04 Neo900 is a walk in the park, as hard as eating the cake |
| 21:03.40 | dos1 | (the base for GTA04 - modified BeagleBoard to be able to use GTA02 case) |
| 21:04.15 | dos1 | and indeed it worked in the end |
| 21:04.49 | dos1 | so i'm pretty optimistic with Neo900, Goldelico can make wonders :) |
| 21:05.22 | dos1 | even if 99% of the world population won't ever hear of them nor be interested in what they do |
| 21:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: it will increase the number of preorders, and that's the crux of the bisquit in the end - if we can get sufficient number of preorders |
| 21:05.42 | dos1 | they still do miracles for own small niche, and I'm very thankful |
| 21:05.54 | dos1 | s/own/our/ |
| 21:06.14 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: sufficient number of preorders = ? |
| 21:06.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | 200 |
| 21:06.33 | Sysaxed | that's very easy |
| 21:06.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | a ridiculous modest two hundred |
| 21:06.35 | r00t|home | i'm just questioning the size of the market / achieveable price... i'm not buying a phone for many 100 euros... be it an iphone or a linux phone... |
| 21:06.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: then don't worry |
| 21:07.00 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: and what is the price? |
| 21:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 21:07.24 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: which page? |
| 21:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | post # 1 |
| 21:08.00 | dos1 | r00t|home: we aim for 200 buyers. I don't think it's impossible to achieve. |
| 21:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for 200 units we hope to reach 700EUR sales price |
| 21:08.33 | Sysaxed | 700€ ... oh... |
| 21:08.37 | r00t|home | dos1: that's 600eur per device then, yeah? |
| 21:08.49 | dos1 | if more will come, then great! even awesome! but we'll be already successful with just 200 |
| 21:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we can get 2000 units sold, it will already be remarkably cheaper |
| 21:09.29 | r00t|home | well, good luck to you |
| 21:09.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 21:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 needed no luck when they started rollout at 599EUR |
| 21:10.04 | dos1 | there are circa 300 GTA04s there sold for ~600EUR |
| 21:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't aim to be better and cheaper than they were |
| 21:10.24 | Sysaxed | well, there's no way I can buy a phone for 700€ in near future, even considering the fact that n900 is my wife |
| 21:10.36 | r00t|home | i bought my first for 150 and the next for 100... maybe it's just me... |
| 21:10.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely |
| 21:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once bought a rolls royce for 50 bucks |
| 21:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 21:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it was too expensive |
| 21:11.27 | r00t|home | Sysaxed: i probably wouldn't even if i could |
| 21:11.29 | r00t|home | lol |
| 21:11.30 | dos1 | sure, it's expensive and not everyone will be able or even want to spend such amount of money for such phone |
| 21:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: then pretty please stop worrying |
| 21:11.51 | dos1 | we're perfectly aware of that |
| 21:11.52 | Sysaxed | no, I'd probably kill for that phone |
| 21:12.01 | Sysaxed | but not 700€, sorry :\ |
| 21:12.23 | dos1 | but there's little we can do with that, except getting more orders |
| 21:12.25 | r00t|home | Sysaxed: so you'd kill for 700eur? give me your bank account and where i can send the name |
| 21:12.48 | Sysaxed | r00t|home: if only you send me Neo900 right now :) |
| 21:13.56 | Sysaxed | and if we aim for 500 preorders, how high would be the price? |
| 21:14.04 | r00t|home | Sysaxed: let's get bcak to this when production starts |
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| 21:14.11 | r00t|home | Sysaxed: see the table in the tmo thread |
| 21:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: not much difference yet |
| 21:14.23 | dos1 | the table is about current GTA04 |
| 21:14.23 | r00t|home | (even if that's for gta04) |
| 21:14.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: magnitudes of 10 make a difference, not exponents of 2 |
| 21:15.00 | dos1 | there will be some differences - for sure Neo900 will be a bit more expensive than GTA04 |
| 21:15.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite a bit |
| 21:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | case crap costs 150 bucks |
| 21:15.55 | Sysaxed | 200 preorders is quite easy, look, there are 233 people in this chat.. if only the price was a little lower |
| 21:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | cam alone costs 50 |
| 21:16.18 | Sysaxed | case crap? |
| 21:16.26 | r00t|home | well, again, good luck to you, but i personally don't think there's a large enough market for that device, even if it's a neat idea |
| 21:16.32 | Sysaxed | uhhh, 150 for the case? |
| 21:16.33 | r00t|home | Sysaxed: stuff beyond the pcb |
| 21:16.42 | RiD | DocScrutinizer05 case is 150 bucks? |
| 21:16.46 | Sysaxed | wtf? |
| 21:16.50 | dos1 | I think it includes whole front panel |
| 21:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: well, again, thanks for your notion, stop worrying! |
| 21:16.55 | dos1 | which is left unchanged for Neo900 |
| 21:17.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: it's conceived as negativism here |
| 21:17.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: case, screen, digitizer, speakers, antennae.... |
| 21:17.51 | dos1 | maybe except getting rid of Nokia logo ;) |
| 21:18.09 | RiD | woah that's expensive |
| 21:18.45 | RiD | Is it different fron the normal N900 one? |
| 21:18.49 | RiD | from |
| 21:18.50 | r00t|home | dos1: you probably can arrange to fix this... (missing double-slash in redirect target for the gta04 order link): http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 => Location: https:/shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 |
| 21:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~neo900 |
| 21:19.00 | infobot | i guess neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/ |
| 21:19.06 | RiD | I understand that you can't put NOKIA on the bezel |
| 21:19.17 | dos1 | get only the board and upgrade your current N900 for a cheaper option :) |
| 21:19.25 | RiD | Oh I see the name now |
| 21:19.46 | r00t|home | dos1: more like fix one of those broken n900s |
| 21:20.02 | dos1 | see, even cheaper |
| 21:20.08 | RiD | Mine is in perfect condition, not a single scratch |
| 21:20.10 | RiD | who gives 500 for it |
| 21:20.48 | dos1 | r00t|home: try to use some contact links from that page, I'm not related to Goldelico by any way |
| 21:20.54 | dos1 | other than being fan of them ;) |
| 21:20.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | seeya, dudes, I got some _real_ work to do |
| 21:21.11 | r00t|home | dos1: i don't care enough to spend that much time on it |
| 21:21.14 | RiD | joke aside, I can't wait to see the result (though I won't be able to buy one.. running $hort on ca$h) |
| 21:24.35 | r00t|home | would be great if you had good marketing and could get the device as hyped as the raspberry pi... :D |
| 21:25.00 | dos1 | Neo900 for $15? yeah, why not! :D |
| 21:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | as hyped as the TI zoom-2 (which never came with phone function since TI messed up the RoHS, but nevertheless cost ~1200$)? |
| 21:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if Nokia hadn't announced the N900, I had bought a zoom-II and retrofitted a modem to it |
| 21:32.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite the incredibly insane MMC slot |
| 21:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | standard size MMC but then, since standard size is too large, it protrudes like 15mm from the case |
| 21:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 21:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you wouldn't want to carry such thing with MMC inserted |
| 21:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and - to be honest - we can't do *anything* about the price of Neo900 since pretty simple we don't earn a pence on them |
| 21:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we weren't such suckers, we would need to sell them for at least twice the price |
| 21:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | now you know the cruel truth about this project |
| 21:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | (twice) wich would put the Neo900 absolutely on par with similar commercial projects like e.g. zoom |
| 21:45.58 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/cEVPsBDu |
| 21:46.02 | dos1 | quick'n'dirty'n'whatev |
| 21:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | though TI could afford to ask for less than they tjhemselves pay for the BOM. But they don't do it, not even they do |
| 21:48.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: looks like a start. I will give it a thorough read and then forward it to GA |
| 21:49.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: ^^^ |
| 21:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: maybe you already wanna have a look (you know, /.) |
| 22:03.42 | *** join/#maemo khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-554-1-65-6.w90-58.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:04.12 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://lwn.net/Articles/567295/ CM goes commercial |
| 22:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that anybody in here really cares a lot about CM, right? |
| 22:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, Cyanogen mod, Android |
| 22:20.41 | RiD | its OK |
| 22:24.57 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, want me to edit it? |
| 22:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: if you could come up with a similar story (or slightly or even massively changed one) that sounds good, is an eyecatcher and could make it to a /. post, that would be awesome |
| 22:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | the more buzzwords (for aunt google and the occasional reader) the better |
| 22:29.12 | GeneralAntilles | OK, I'll work on it tonight or tomorrow. |
| 22:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks :-) |
| 22:30.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I love your writing style, so I'm sure it will be worth waiting for it, even when it will be only 3 sentences maybe |
| 22:41.41 | dos1 | GeneralAntilles: yeah, feel free to massively edit it out, it's just a quick draft |
| 22:42.23 | dos1 | GeneralAntilles: you may also note somehow that this "high hackability" is not only about software, but about hardware too |
| 22:42.24 | GeneralAntilles | Haha. High praise, DocScrutinizer05, thanks. :P |
| 22:42.56 | GeneralAntilles | dos1, OK. I think I'll probably start from some main bullet points and work from there. |
| 22:44.06 | dos1 | GeneralAntilles: there is some text on http://neo900.org/ that may be useful for listing those bullet points |
| 22:46.18 | dos1 | hmm, well, now I reread last msg and I feel like Cpt. Obvious :) |
| 22:47.34 | dos1 | too much simplex tables I guess |
| 22:49.15 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
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| 23:36.33 | FIQ | wtf |
| 23:37.04 | FIQ | why on earth is music files copied over from wherever they are to .local/share/sounds if used as ringtunes? |
| 23:38.20 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 23:39.17 | kerio | because of reasons |
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| 23:41.01 | FIQ | isn't that kinda silly? |
| 23:42.08 | FIQ | say if you decide to have MBs of files as tunes (without knowing about this behaviour) and then you wonder why something is taking up 30MB of file size for unnecessary copes |
| 23:42.11 | FIQ | *copies |
| 23:42.31 | FIQ | I don't see the reason.. oh well |
| 23:42.59 | dos1 | well, if you use something that's on microsd, and then you remove/replace it |
| 23:43.06 | dos1 | or move/delete the file wherever it is |
| 23:43.24 | dos1 | it wouldn't have a ringtone to play |
| 23:43.33 | dos1 | so that's some reason |
| 23:55.12 | jonwil | It also converts it into a wav file |
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| 23:59.41 | dos1 | i guess that's for performance reasons |