| 00:12.18 | dos1 | Wizzup: with Fremantle - yes |
| 00:12.31 | dos1 | err |
| 00:12.33 | dos1 | no :) |
| 00:12.37 | dos1 | with SHR, QtMoko, etc - yes |
| 00:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, 3D accel counts as luxury ;-P |
| 00:27.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | a system _without_ counts as "usable" |
| 00:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | however you're free to use the closed blobs and exploit the benefits of 3D accel, on Neo900 |
| 00:27.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | up to you, you got the choice |
| 00:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't rpovide what we can't get a hold on |
| 00:29.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | provide even |
| 00:29.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you get a hw platform that *works* without any blobs |
| 00:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you're even free to use blobs that are actually available and it _still_ works :-D |
| 00:34.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare situation about mp3 decoders some years back, when distros shipped without them due to Fraunhofer patents, but you were free to either a) use the OS without mp3 support b) use some pirated mp3 decoders c) use some licenced mp3 decoders offered for your OS for a small fee to pay the royalties |
| 00:35.33 | *** join/#maemo RiD (~RiD@bl22-2-227.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 00:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | would you have called the distor "not usable" due to that? |
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| 00:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | distro, dang |
| 00:38.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: since Neo900 is binary compatible to N900, you can use the 3D accel shipping with your Fremantle-Maemo5 you own, and put it on Neo900 and it simply will work |
| 00:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's neither less nor more free than maemo5 on N900 then, regarding this issue |
| 00:41.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since Neo900 is first and foremost designed and planned as N900-successor, I hope you're happy with that |
| 00:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: sorry I dunno how to twitter news to MWKN. anyway you might be interested in _new_ http://neo900.org/ |
| 00:53.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | comments welcome ;-) |
| 00:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | though Dos1 does an incredible job with his website designs (at least in my book), I'm well aware we both are no professional web designers and not even marketing experts or just native speakers |
| 00:56.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | however I think the page now should stand a first public review |
| 00:57.41 | RiD | its public? |
| 00:58.06 | RiD | forgive my stupidity, i just saw it -_- |
| 00:58.27 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: the table is new? |
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| 01:00.41 | RiD | nice site |
| 01:00.53 | RiD | fancy and my n900 didn't die trying to render it |
| 01:01.09 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, added |
| 01:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
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| 01:08.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: actually it's probably a tad problematic to see the hover-texts |
| 01:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 |
| 01:09.12 | RiD | hm? don't know, let me check it |
| 01:09.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not problematic but at least not straight forward |
| 01:09.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | one is at "micro-AB (OTG)" |
| 01:10.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | another one at "...just started" |
| 01:10.44 | RiD | hm, what do you mean with hover? |
| 01:11.17 | RiD | LOL |
| 01:11.24 | RiD | only now i saw the little dots |
| 01:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | hover == move mouse cursor over sth |
| 01:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the page is not yet finalized, but a lot better than 8h ago |
| 01:12.53 | RiD | i put the mouse on top of it but don't see any hover text (??) |
| 01:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "...and more to come!" promise is meant that way |
| 01:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 01:14.05 | RiD | i am completely lost at what you are trying to say with these hover texts |
| 01:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | > >Micro-AB (OTG )with prototyping support in battery compartment for your own ideas<< has hover text "and it won't break ;-)" |
| 01:14.45 | RiD | i see |
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| 01:14.59 | RiD | it doesnt show up at all |
| 01:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 you need to use cursor mode, definitely |
| 01:15.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even then I dunno if or not it will work |
| 01:15.36 | RiD | thats what i was using - it doesn't show |
| 01:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
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| 01:15.49 | RiD | i use it all time, awesome to select text |
| 01:15.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 01:16.05 | RiD | faster than android's way |
| 01:16.18 | RiD | i always choose the wrong line or eventually mess it all up |
| 01:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The project has just started.<< has hover text "End of August, 2013" |
| 01:17.11 | RiD | it doesn't show up |
| 01:17.32 | RiD | though I don't think it should rely too much on hover texts, even on computers |
| 01:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't ;-) |
| 01:18.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hover texts are "nice to know" factoids that don't break the story line when missing |
| 01:20.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder how many new users will come here to this channel, after clicking on >>your valuable input!<< |
| 01:20.35 | RiD | it'll be guest madness (not reallyx |
| 01:20.42 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: neo900 is great idea! |
| 01:20.57 | RiD | anyways i saw your topic related with pulseaudio, xprot and etc |
| 01:21.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, yeah? |
| 01:21.33 | RiD | is it really messing with the headphones output? |
| 01:21.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think in some way it does |
| 01:21.55 | RiD | you mentioned dynamic compression and etc. I honestly never noticed tha |
| 01:22.06 | RiD | but i dont have any proper setup |
| 01:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure volume of headphones is limited to less than the amp could do |
| 01:22.37 | RiD | i have volumedaemon to squeeze out that little extra, from 88 to 100 |
| 01:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | the dynamic compression noticeable on speakers |
| 01:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, nice. never tested that |
| 01:23.09 | RiD | it actually makes a difference |
| 01:23.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 01:23.22 | RiD | before that i always had alsamixer -c0 in xterm |
| 01:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 01:23.41 | RiD | but these were the days I used the original earphones |
| 01:23.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the hardcore hacker way |
| 01:23.49 | RiD | and i thought they were loud...jesus |
| 01:24.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | nedko: if you like neo900, consider voting at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 01:25.06 | RiD | (i always have my volume louder than most, was born with some "deafness" problems) |
| 01:26.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought N900 original accessory earphones were just unbearable |
| 01:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | both quality and comfort |
| 01:26.15 | RiD | they sound very muddy |
| 01:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 01:27.14 | RiD | ? |
| 01:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | muddy |
| 01:27.58 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: done :) |
| 01:28.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 01:28.15 | RiD | do you disagree? |
| 01:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | not at all, im my culture nodding means agreement |
| 01:28.45 | RiD | oh...my bad |
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| 01:32.23 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: is there a mailing list for neo900? fora drive me crazy... |
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| 01:38.41 | RiD | its late... see ya |
| 01:38.43 | *** part/#maemo RiD (~RiD@bl22-2-227.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 01:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | nedko: not really, yet |
| 01:43.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | nedko: but I sympathize, we will set up sth in due time |
| 01:45.18 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: i wonder what i can help neo900 with |
| 01:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now spread the word! :-) |
| 01:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | or join the FPTF and contribute there, if that's one of your domains of expertise |
| 01:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
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| 01:47.06 | nedko | i'm already spreading the word :) |
| 01:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | we urgently need all the help we can get, to port fremantle kernel and core system to Neo900 |
| 01:52.14 | mashina | i love maemo/n900 |
| 01:52.32 | mashina | but isn't time to move onto say something like sailfish? |
| 01:52.44 | mashina | if we stay in the past we'll never move on |
| 01:53.30 | jonwil | I will be helping with reverse engineering wherever possible |
| 01:54.40 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: i do C, user and kernel programming, [debian] packaging. but i've not done almost nothing on my n900. i once did a pygtk app for it but i don't think this really counts :] |
| 01:54.55 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: i'm also somewhat used to D-Bus |
| 01:55.40 | mashina | also, kernel port matters much less |
| 01:55.52 | mashina | you must need to get userland working |
| 01:56.03 | mashina | and userland runs fine with whatever kernel |
| 01:56.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | nedko: great, we need d-bus experts to replace the csd* bits |
| 01:57.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | mashina: sorry that's not correct |
| 01:57.20 | mashina | i am used to desktopland of course |
| 01:57.34 | mashina | but if you provide the same kernel servs.. |
| 01:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | mashina: we have a whole lot of middleware that is closely entangled with /sys/ |
| 01:58.00 | jonwil | What we need is someone skilled in the art of reverse engineering unknown dbus calls (of course such a person may not exist) |
| 01:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | d-bus is all fine |
| 01:58.26 | nedko | DocScrutinizer05: they need to be rewritten to work with new hardware and to be open source? |
| 01:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | d-bus *skills* |
| 01:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 01:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil can point you at some wiki page that has details |
| 02:00.05 | nedko | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus ? |
| 02:00.15 | jonwil | Yeah thats a good place to start |
| 02:00.28 | jonwil | Reverse engineering unknown dbus calls is hard :P |
| 02:00.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | csd are the low level modem daemons that do SMS, signal, PIN/SIM/whatever... |
| 02:01.24 | jonwil | yes, the CSD is the daemon that talks to the cellular modem |
| 02:01.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't and don't want to use same modem as on N900 (Nokia BB5) |
| 02:01.48 | jonwil | and we need to replace it with something that talks to the new modems in the Neo90o (via fsogsmd) |
| 02:01.49 | nedko | but we want to use the same dbus clients as in n900? |
| 02:01.57 | jonwil | yes we do |
| 02:02.10 | jonwil | We want to keep things like the phone dialer, messaging app and other stuff working as-is |
| 02:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, the d-bus API shall stay compatible |
| 02:02.27 | nedko | makes sense to me |
| 02:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ :-D |
| 02:03.19 | jonwil | The hard part is figuring out what all the dbus calls actually do |
| 02:03.29 | jonwil | And what the parameters to those calls really mean |
| 02:03.41 | nedko | dbus has good monitoring capabilities |
| 02:03.52 | jonwil | yep it does |
| 02:04.01 | jonwil | but that doesn't always help us figure out what the unknown calls actually do |
| 02:04.16 | nedko | hmm |
| 02:04.23 | nedko | but arent the clients open source? |
| 02:04.28 | nedko | dbus clients |
| 02:04.30 | jonwil | nope |
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| 02:05.11 | nedko | i'd prefer to run as few closed source modules as possible |
| 02:05.48 | jonwil | yeah so would I |
| 02:06.01 | jonwil | but in this case replacing things like the dialer and messaging app is not easy |
| 02:06.16 | jonwil | and there are far better uses of what programmer time we are able to get |
| 02:06.30 | jonwil | writing "a phone dialer" isn't hard |
| 02:06.52 | jonwil | writing a phone dialer that is feature and interface compatible with the one on the N900 is whats hard |
| 02:07.23 | jonwil | i.e. the phone dialer does a lot more than it appears on the surface and figuring out all the special cases and funky bits is where the difficultly is |
| 02:07.35 | nedko | fsogsmd is the module that will talk to the hw |
| 02:07.44 | nedko | and it needs to export the nokia dbus api? |
| 02:07.48 | jonwil | yes |
| 02:07.52 | jonwil | that's the idea |
| 02:08.51 | nedko | do we want to modify fsogsmd or we'd rather implement a different daemon that will act as a proxy to couple the two sets of dbus interfaces? |
| 02:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | either that or writing a thin compatibility layer called csd with two d-bus heads, one to fsogsmd and one pretending to be csd |
| 02:09.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, you beat me to it |
| 02:09.35 | nedko | this is what i meant with "proxy" |
| 02:10.03 | nedko | i like the compatibility layer |
| 02:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | too |
| 02:10.16 | nedko | it will keep nokia stuff out of fsogsmd |
| 02:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 02:10.45 | nedko | and when/if we write new, they will use the fsogsmd api |
| 02:10.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:11.04 | nedko | s/new/new apps/ |
| 02:11.11 | nedko | meh |
| 02:11.12 | nedko | :] |
| 02:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least if it's something we don't need nor want on original n900-maemo5 |
| 02:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | compatibility (even binary) to N900 is the major goal |
| 02:13.43 | jonwil | FYI, it is my view that if we have to modify telepathy-ring, rtcom-call-ui or rtcom-messaging-ui at all, we have failed the goals of the project. |
| 02:13.51 | nedko | i do some cellular stuff with my n900 and inspect the dbus messages exchanged |
| 02:14.00 | nedko | s/i do/i can do/ |
| 02:14.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | great |
| 02:14.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like a proper task you can pick up |
| 02:14.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | document all dbus msgs that go to or from csd |
| 02:15.28 | nedko | yup |
| 02:16.14 | nedko | i'll keep you informed on my progress, but don't hold your breath. i have other things to do :) |
| 02:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | please check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308, and report there as well |
| 02:18.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | the results of your work probably best go to a wiki page |
| 02:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I planned to list all members of the FPTF in post#1, but I failed on keeping track, so you better introduce yourself there and explain the task you picked |
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| 02:58.44 | nedko | jonwil: the introspection xmls that the csd returns doesnt strictly match the actual protocol. i already found a mismatch |
| 02:58.57 | jonwil | where? |
| 02:59.21 | nedko | --dest=com.nokia.csd.Info /com/nokia/csd/info com.nokia.csd.Info.GetPublicId |
| 02:59.28 | nedko | it returns array of bytes |
| 03:00.01 | nedko | but the introspection xml states it returns a string of chars |
| 03:00.08 | nedko | i.e. normal string |
| 03:00.34 | jonwil | ok, please document these differences on the wiki somwhere |
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| 03:01.13 | nedko | i'm collecting the info in a git repo for now |
| 03:01.27 | jonwil | ok |
| 03:01.54 | jonwil | All this stuff needs to be public so that others (like me) can see the info you are collecting :) |
| 03:02.08 | nedko | jonwil: it will be :) |
| 03:02.14 | jonwil | ok great |
| 03:02.43 | nedko | jonwil: is it you who collected xml and header files at http://www.cncmods.net/files/dbus/ ? |
| 03:02.56 | jonwil | yes it is |
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| 03:02.59 | jonwil | that is my site |
| 03:03.00 | jonwil | :) |
| 03:03.02 | nedko | :) |
| 03:05.48 | hatake_kakashi | Geez, PCB/SMT rework is not cheap :/ $119 for n9 but the same mob that offers fixing of n9 has no price tag for N900 in regards to replacing/reworking the microUSB receptacle. To me I would say it would be easier to just estimate based on how much it would cost to rework n9's microUSB receptacle and therefore $119 for just one N900 to be repaired. The more you have.. well the more it'll cost. Joy-o |
| 03:05.48 | hatake_kakashi | -joy. |
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| 03:10.15 | jonwil | nedko: I just ran some dbus-send on com.nokia.csd.info and all those methods seem to match up except for that one you found |
| 03:14.03 | nedko | jonwil: ok |
| 03:14.45 | jonwil | My guess is that that one method was changed but the type signature wasn't changed |
| 03:15.02 | jonwil | is that the only discrepancy you have found so far? |
| 03:21.41 | nedko | jonwil: so far yes |
| 03:21.46 | jonwil | ok |
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| 03:30.33 | jonwil | actually, I cant confirm what GetHWVersion returns as it returned an error in my test |
| 03:40.51 | jonwil | god I hate ARM reverse engineering |
| 03:51.38 | robbiethe1st | ...Shouldn't any chip come with a proper datasheet which details all of the opcodes and other important bits? |
| 03:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: hmm? |
| 03:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ought, maybe |
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| 04:38.59 | jonwil | I have the instruction set reference |
| 04:39.14 | jonwil | but its still annoying to figure out just what is going on |
| 04:39.22 | jonwil | especially when dealing with data structures, functions and such |
| 04:41.09 | jonwil | time to get the cellular services daemon into GDB :) |
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| 06:16.40 | jonwil | Just updated http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus and the matching data files. Added info on com.nokia.csd.call.conference, com.nokia.phone.sim, com.nokia.phone.sim.security and com.nokia.phone.sim.phonebook. Also corrected the xml file for com.nokia.csd.info. |
| 06:16.56 | jonwil | call.conference info came from dbus introspection |
| 06:18.03 | jonwil | the com.nokia.phone.sim.* info was created by me by hand from info in libcsd-sim.so, libcsd-simpb.so and from running things through dbus-send and watching the output |
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| 07:11.20 | Macer | blah |
| 07:11.31 | Macer | wish maemo had a better fics client |
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| 07:11.38 | Macer | miniture isnt that good |
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| 08:05.13 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/16/in_massive_surprise_worlddog_discovers_nokia_checked_out_android/ |
| 08:16.35 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: but that is not without binary blob though |
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| 11:18.28 | jiero | hi, what if a package partly removed and it is actually broken. What can I do to fix it, namely john - the Lockcode recoveror. |
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| 11:21.08 | jiero | reinstall is actually not possible |
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| 11:32.26 | lexik_ntb | just looking at Replicant page (http://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/ReplicantStatus#Replicant-23) and the support for GTA04 is BAD. No WiFi, BT, 3D Graphics... maybe someone (such as DocScrutinizer05) could contact replicant / NITDroid team to ask for help. |
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| 11:35.33 | dos1 | lexik_ntb: not enough manpower |
| 11:35.43 | dos1 | there are no technical limitations that prevent it from happen |
| 11:35.53 | dos1 | AFAIK it was just one developer working on GTA04 support in Replicant |
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| 11:48.05 | lexik_ntb | dos1: :-/ |
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| 12:34.52 | Sysaxed | https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:N900_The_Perfect_Setup#Repositories |
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| 12:35.09 | Sysaxed | can anybody explain me what is extras-devel-light and why is it with so low priority? |
| 12:37.28 | MrPingu | extras-devel-light only contains the latest versions |
| 12:37.52 | MrPingu | If i'm right :P |
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| 12:38.26 | MrPingu | And it maybe doesn't have the packages that are already in extras but I am not sure |
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| 12:47.39 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: so if it contains the latest versions, why the hell does it have lower priority? |
| 12:47.53 | Sysaxed | I was wondering why all of my packages are outdated.. Now I see |
| 12:48.26 | Sysaxed | smscon sent 30 sms messages, dunno why, my sim was added to the list |
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| 13:22.22 | Mike11 | hello everybody :) |
| 13:22.35 | Mike11 | I am trying to install git-core on my n900 |
| 13:22.42 | Mike11 | apt-get install git-core |
| 13:22.48 | Mike11 | gives me: |
| 13:23.15 | Mike11 | unmet dependencies: |
| 13:23.53 | Mike11 | git-core: depends: git(> 1:1.7.0.2) but it is not going to be install |
| 13:23.57 | Mike11 | installed** |
| 13:24.08 | Mike11 | I tried the -f switch |
| 13:24.27 | Mike11 | and the same error happens |
| 13:24.34 | thedead1440 | i would try doing apt-get install git to see what is holding back its installation... |
| 13:24.43 | Mike11 | now when i try: apt-get install git |
| 13:25.20 | Mike11 | git: Depends: perl-modules but it is not installable |
| 13:25.44 | Mike11 | Depends: liberror-perl but it is not going to be installed |
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| 13:25.58 | Mike11 | E: Broken packages |
| 13:26.19 | Mike11 | and when I try: apt-get install perl-modules |
| 13:27.19 | Mike11 | "Package perl-modules is not available, but is referred to by another package" |
| 13:27.43 | thedead1440 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Perl |
| 13:27.55 | Mike11 | "This may mean the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source: |
| 13:27.56 | Mike11 | " |
| 13:28.22 | Mike11 | thedead1440 , can I install perl-modules from there?? |
| 13:28.30 | RiD | check your repositories? |
| 13:29.27 | thedead1440 | Mike11: i don't know; a simple google search showed it and also referenced to an old thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=425262&postcount=2) which explained that perl-modules may fill up your rootfs space |
| 13:29.52 | MrPingu | Sysaxed: ONLY the latest packages, not all previous versions like the other extras-devel does |
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| 13:38.57 | Mike11 | thanks thedead1440 , I ran into this page too, but couldn't find a link to download the package , thanks for your help anyway |
| 13:38.59 | Mike11 | :) |
| 13:39.47 | Mike11 | RiD , I have the maemo.org, maemo.org extras-testing, maemo.org extras-devel |
| 13:40.08 | Mike11 | RiD, but nokia repositories are not working from my location :( |
| 13:40.16 | Mike11 | RiD, do i need it?? |
| 13:45.56 | RiD | i don't know :/ |
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| 13:51.23 | Sysaxed | apt preferences: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165032_940x340_scrot.png and here is apt-cache policy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165115_940x340_scrot.png |
| 13:51.29 | Sysaxed | how can I install the latest version? |
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| 13:57.49 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: you're back, my savior! |
| 13:58.03 | Sysaxed | !logs |
| 13:58.05 | Sysaxed | logs? |
| 13:58.16 | MrPingu | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 13:59.04 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: read it! :) |
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| 14:00.28 | marcdeop | hello everybody |
| 14:00.36 | marcdeop | following a forum post in maemo.org |
| 14:00.44 | marcdeop | I'd like to ask for "Fremantle Porting Task Force", is it organized? |
| 14:00.49 | marcdeop | may I help somehow? |
| 14:01.28 | MrPingu | <MrPingu> Sysaxed: ONLY the latest packages, not all previous versions like the other extras-devel does |
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| 14:04.47 | MrPingu | Sysaxed: anymore questions? Did I miss something? |
| 14:07.35 | lexik_ntb | marcdeop: sure you can help, if you can reverse engineering or so.. http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting << good start point |
| 14:07.52 | marcdeop | reverse engineering? good lorg :S |
| 14:08.22 | marcdeop | I can bareley pass as a programmer... reverse engineering? I think it's out of my leage :'( |
| 14:09.46 | lexik_ntb | programmer? also welcome :D (i have no idea about RE etc.) which language? |
| 14:10.13 | lexik_ntb | in my opinion C is the best, just guessing.. |
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| 14:10.58 | lexik_ntb | best == most useful in this case |
| 14:11.26 | marcdeop | I was saying I'm not good enough ;-) |
| 14:11.34 | marcdeop | and my C is really rusty |
| 14:13.04 | lexik_ntb | in my opinion the biggest challenge for Fre(e)mantle porting taskforce (FPT) are the closed-source packages which have been written especially for N900 |
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| 14:18.49 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: yes |
| 14:18.57 | Sysaxed | whoo, got disconnected |
| 14:19.40 | Sysaxed | (16:51:23) Sysaxed: apt preferences: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165032_940x340_scrot.png and here is apt-cache policy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165115_940x340_scrot.png |
| 14:19.40 | Sysaxed | (16:51:28) Sysaxed: how can I install the latest version? |
| 14:19.56 | marcdeop | lexik_ntb: you are right |
| 14:20.22 | Sysaxed | I can install it manually, yes, but most of my packages are outdated, how can I make it work by default? Why these have 500 priority? Is it the default value? |
| 14:21.34 | MrPingu | What does HAM say? the default app manager? |
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| 14:34.34 | MrPingu | Sysaxed: Personally, I would just use normal repo setup with CSSU-thumb |
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| 14:44.25 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: says that there are no updates |
| 14:50.03 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: but the point is to have thumb packages with higher priority |
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| 15:11.44 | MrPingu | I'm running thumb on normal setup, and you only have to wait or priortize when theres a new cssu-t update |
| 15:12.20 | Sysaxed | MrPingu: I don't get it |
| 15:13.02 | MrPingu | What I am saying is that thumb only affects cssu softwares |
| 15:13.02 | Sysaxed | like, if somebody throws a new updated package to non-thumb repository, wouldn't it replace my thumb version? |
| 15:13.35 | MrPingu | There's no thumb extras repository, is there? |
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| 15:25.35 | sixwheeledbeast | grr...busybox cat command has zero advanced functionality |
| 15:25.41 | sixwheeledbeast | ~messybox |
| 15:25.41 | infobot | somebody said messybox was messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 15:30.52 | mashina | i find busybox does what I want to do fine |
| 15:30.53 | mashina | as I said, I use busybox-power though |
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| 15:35.00 | NIN101 | well, then the guy who compiled your busybox simply left out those "advanced functionality". it's not messybox's fault. |
| 15:36.54 | Arkenoi | does not understand what is the point of using busybox on todays hardware. With 2Mb flash and 2Mb RAM it could make sense, but now it is just stupid. |
| 15:37.01 | sixwheeledbeast | sorted used sed instead :) |
| 15:38.59 | mashina | busybox makes a simpler system |
| 15:39.25 | mashina | just one robust tool handles almost everything |
| 15:39.29 | NIN101 | yep. |
| 15:40.41 | mashina | busybox doesn't bother implementing bloat that gnu adds - it's redundant when you can use a better, different tool for the task |
| 15:41.02 | mashina | and the massive gnu bloat counts, even on modern systems |
| 15:41.17 | mashina | busybox based systems are lighter to start, use less resources, etc |
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| 15:51.34 | Arkenoi | who cares about that "bloat" on nowdays hardware? It made difference when operating frequencies where two-number megaherzes and memory size one or two number megabytes |
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| 15:56.16 | mashina | why not run windows vista on that pentium 3? |
| 15:56.28 | mashina | especially on phones, performance matters |
| 15:56.41 | mashina | (especially when performance is key for good power usage) |
| 15:57.43 | sixwheeledbeast | bash installed on N900 causes no performance loss that I know about. |
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| 16:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, it rather gets you a performance boost |
| 16:08.52 | kerio | mashina: busybox is a piece of shit |
| 16:14.50 | mashina | no your coreutils |
| 16:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 16:32.10 | Sysaxed | sixwheeledbeast: why would it cause any effect on performance? |
| 16:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | mashina: go ahead tell my about process 1234, using your busybox crappy ps |
| 16:32.45 | Sysaxed | hey DocScrutinizer05, could you be so kind to help me? :) |
| 16:32.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure you can try to find out about everything of that process, using /proc |
| 16:32.50 | sixwheeledbeast | Sysaxed: exactly |
| 16:32.51 | Sysaxed | apt preferences: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165032_940x340_scrot.png and here is apt-cache policy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71236259/2013-09-16-165115_940x340_scrot.png |
| 16:33.13 | Sysaxed | how can I update this (and other) packages? MrPingu suggested removing preferences file... |
| 16:33.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: help on what? |
| 16:35.29 | Sysaxed | HAM says that no updates are available |
| 16:36.05 | Sysaxed | And I was following https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:N900_The_Perfect_Setup when configuring apt preferences |
| 16:40.20 | sixwheeledbeast | Should there be updates in HAM? |
| 16:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:N900_The_Perfect_Setup is not any official recommendation. I dunno if and which bugs it may contain |
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| 16:45.19 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: so should I forget about preferences file? |
| 16:45.30 | sixwheeledbeast | Yes... hmm the "Talk:" version is definitely questionable on stability, this should ideally be in "User:" |
| 16:46.36 | mashina | User: is for a user's page |
| 16:46.47 | mashina | you'll have to put it in User:SomeDude/page |
| 16:46.49 | sixwheeledbeast | exactly |
| 16:48.41 | sixwheeledbeast | it is "someusers" idea whereas the Main page was written/edited to be a beginner friendly recommendation way by me. |
| 17:01.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw wtf about TALK[!!!]:N900_The_Perfect_Setup |
| 17:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | this definitely is NO talk: page by content |
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| 17:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | please clean that up! |
| 17:03.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | on talk: there's supposed to be comments on the main page's content |
| 17:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | not a whole alternative phantom wiki mainpage style content |
| 17:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can tell from the name of the link to talk: in mainpage's navigation menu: "Discussion" |
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| 17:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | cleaned it |
| 17:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | new location: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_The_Perfect_Setup/alternative-1 |
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| 17:27.52 | sixwheeledbeast | completely agree. |
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| 21:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | could anybody check talk.maemo.org for weird possibly rogue activate.tapatalk.com gif linked in CSS? It looks quite rogue to me and it also causes huge delays and even error requesters for the invalid https cert: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/16/plasma-desktopXw3743.png |
| 21:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ^^^ |
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| 21:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: ^^^ |
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| 21:26.44 | dos11 | DocScrutinizer05: AFAIK tapatalk is some forum plugin which makes browsing it easier on some mobile devices |
| 21:27.19 | dos1 | I've seen some request from someone on tmo recently to upgrade it |
| 21:27.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's da shite |
| 21:28.21 | dos1 | dunno, never seen, never used, just heard of it |
| 21:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | cookie gif with http:// URL that doesn't even have a proper cert |
| 21:28.58 | dos1 | well yep, that looks shitty :) |
| 21:29.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and loading of page stalls for 20s sometimes, seems it's related |
| 21:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | https:// URL even |
| 21:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn, my mouse is dead, in X11 only |
| 21:30.13 | dos1 | usb hub? |
| 21:31.18 | dos1 | I've had problems with input devices not working in X when connected via hub |
| 21:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, od /dev/input/event18 works just fine. Only X11 doesn't like it anymore |
| 21:31.51 | dos1 | turned out there was some shitty udev rule for some device which internally used chipset of that hub :P |
| 21:32.07 | dos1 | yup, it worked in console and /dev/input, just not in X |
| 21:32.17 | dos1 | because it wasn't marked by udev as something X should use |
| 21:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | resurrected it by plug-cycling mouse and switching to console1 and back to 7 |
| 21:32.54 | dos1 | fun |
| 21:33.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, indeed |
| 21:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, what's your take about Ivgalvez' concerns? |
| 21:34.04 | LjL | meh, everything's going wrong with ebay lately, got a phone stolen on its way here, and the USB-OTG cable i got doesn't appear to do the trick of letting my N900 talk to the RTLSDR :( |
| 21:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308&page=4 |
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| 21:35.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: try something simpler first! like a memory stick with a LED that shows when powered |
| 21:36.59 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: I don't know what's the legal situation behind those binary blobs |
| 21:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't touch any binary blobs, so what's the problem? |
| 21:37.37 | dos1 | you were mentioning here that Maemo was donated to community, together with those blobs |
| 21:37.48 | dos1 | or did I understand it wrong? |
| 21:38.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, well. We got permission from Nokia FOSS evangelist to use and redistribute them in CSSU at least |
| 21:38.54 | LjL | DocScrutinizer05, i tried a small MP3 player, it powers up and even goes into "connected" mode, although i honestly didn't even check whether it got mounted (or could be mounted) anyway... too busy writing people about my stolen phone ;( i'll try a bare USB key now. but anyway, the RTLSDR's LED does light up, it's just that "lsusb" invariably seems to hang up |
| 21:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hostmode is tricky |
| 21:39.45 | dos1 | I guess no one said that CSSU has to be tied to just one hw platform? |
| 21:39.54 | dos1 | anyway, I'm not worried that much about them |
| 21:40.05 | dos1 | Nokia branding on cases may be worse |
| 21:41.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:41.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to remove that and place sticker on top |
| 21:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | no doubt |
| 21:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I pondered that since several weeks now |
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| 21:42.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | stickers shall suffice |
| 21:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might want to photoshop the picture(s) |
| 21:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the NOKIA label at screen frame even culd get removed all together |
| 21:43.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | could* |
| 21:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: for the blobs: we won't ship them, what we ship is an installation script that maybe pulls the image and flasher from the download sites, and requires user to enter valid original N900 IMEI |
| 21:45.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | then we unpack and rearrange |
| 21:45.41 | dos1 | ...which is very easy to find in google :D |
| 21:45.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | not our problem |
| 21:46.05 | dos1 | sure, it's advantage ;) |
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| 22:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | found another one similar gif cookie for google-analytics |
| 22:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 20s delay vanished immediately after I posted first rant about tapatalk in here. Sure it's just incidence |
| 22:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I nevertheless start to wonder if I need some special setting in my browser to generally forbid such off-site links to get automatically loaded, I don't like them, on any webpage |
| 22:09.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I browse site Acme.com I geberally don't want to see info provided by site BullshT.com embedded into my original location |
| 22:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like a general design flaw of html |
| 22:11.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure I'd also lose all the embedded photos on tmo, for exmple. I'd also not need any AddBlock anymore... which gives me an idea of how to tackle and solve the issue |
| 22:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, I'm not blocking cookies and hitting escape a 50 times for each crappy page that I browse to, to reject all the cookies it might want to set, just to then get embedded "cookies" in the flavor of <img href=https://tapatalk.com/trace/me/0pix.gif> or same for adclick.com or google-analytics |
| 22:15.48 | Win7Mac | hi there! |
| 22:15.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 22:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: how's life? |
| 22:17.19 | Win7Mac | Try Mac OS with little snitch and you'll be surprised how much shit pops up... |
| 22:17.25 | Win7Mac | good, thanks |
| 22:17.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 22:18.13 | Win7Mac | just received ma lenovo for a third time, the LED was ALAWAYS on, they now sent a new one |
| 22:18.30 | nox- | DocScrutinizer05, you seen the ff addon requestpolicy? |
| 22:18.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 22:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: battery LED? |
| 22:19.09 | nox- | also ghostery maybe |
| 22:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | wil check them, thanks |
| 22:19.32 | Win7Mac | status LED |
| 22:19.42 | nox- | np |
| 22:19.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, on even when device off? |
| 22:20.04 | Win7Mac | right, and no pulsing when in sleep |
| 22:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, did it stay on when you remove battery? ;-P |
| 22:20.42 | Win7Mac | finally will have a ubuntu install soon... |
| 22:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | suggests to stay away from buntkuh |
| 22:21.07 | Win7Mac | its an edge s430, can't remove battery :( |
| 22:21.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 22:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse |
| 22:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recently suggested OpenSuse to somebody in here, and he was content with it |
| 22:21.44 | Win7Mac | got it as a demo for <500 |
| 22:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~buntkuh |
| 22:21.57 | infobot | buntkuh is probably http://xkcd.com/424/ ... Redmond, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein-Rind |
| 22:22.05 | Win7Mac | with 1 year gewährleistung |
| 22:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, good that you got the warranty |
| 22:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | device not shutting down is... sub-optimal |
| 22:23.25 | Macer | hm |
| 22:23.31 | Macer | is there a way to access ms skydrive in maemo? |
| 22:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 22:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | is there a way to skydive with maemo? |
| 22:24.12 | Win7Mac | well, will have to check if warranty will be available with new laptop. once its 1 year old + you did not extenmd it, it's gone |
| 22:24.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: nfc, how would you access it on your linux desktop PC? |
| 22:25.20 | Win7Mac | if new one is <1 year, I'll extend it immediately, just need to check if this one is finally ok |
| 22:26.37 | Win7Mac | then place a neat little 265GB mSATA for systems, put a bootloader and it should rocket-fly |
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| 22:26.44 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: i would use a browser. but i figured there may be a way to access it via 3rd party |
| 22:26.49 | Macer | it probably uses webdav not sure tho |
| 22:27.08 | Macer | was hoping for a file manager that supported it but talk about grabbing at straws lol |
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| 22:29.55 | int_ua | Hi. Anyone knows a good way to detect -thumb installation from bash? |
| 22:30.45 | Win7Mac | Doc, re: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-09-15.log.html#t2013-09-15T16:29:09 |
| 22:31.18 | Win7Mac | ...what exactly in these 8 pages? |
| 22:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: I also guess it's webdav, if anything |
| 22:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: it is about constitution changes and comes with a nice explanation for each law text change, that tells you what that stuff is meant to actually do and why it got introduced |
| 22:34.11 | Win7Mac | I mean, thanks for the link, but I really cannot do this alone in GER + ENG, even without community discussion |
| 22:34.33 | Win7Mac | no one participating :( |
| 22:35.04 | Win7Mac | not exactly what an eV needs... |
| 22:36.09 | Win7Mac | I agree tthough, that bank/paypal and NOK-NDA issues have prio |
| 22:37.43 | Win7Mac | there is no urgent need to take action if we can resolve bank access, I think |
| 22:38.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:38.35 | Win7Mac | BTW, Rob called HiFo a charitable Foundation! |
| 22:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm participating as good as I can |
| 22:38.49 | Win7Mac | in a mail, en-passent... |
| 22:38.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 22:39.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | starts humming "F.Z. - Son Of Orange County" |
| 22:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in your dreams |
| 22:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can see yourself |
| 22:40.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a prophet |
| 22:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | saving the world |
| 22:40.15 | Win7Mac | ...after I asked him directly, because I just can't stand the fact that I still just don't f*ckin know if we are 501(c)3 or not |
| 22:40.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the worse from your lips |
| 22:40.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can |
| 22:40.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | 't believe you are such |
| 22:40.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | A FOOOOL |
| 22:40.57 | Win7Mac | Zappa, right |
| 22:41.00 | Win7Mac | ? |
| 22:41.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Tic-HjKD0 |
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| 22:44.29 | Win7Mac | Put smth. different on and you probably have a better day ;) |
| 22:45.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | best music ever |
| 22:47.42 | Win7Mac | enjoy that one! pretty much the white Jimi Hendrix, isn't he? |
| 22:48.17 | Win7Mac | I'm a bit later, ya know |
| 22:48.32 | Win7Mac | basically earlier... |
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| 23:17.58 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: no big deal. i will write it off as "no" |
| 23:17.59 | Macer | heh |
| 23:18.08 | Macer | i was just curious. it would help. |
| 23:18.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think webdav should be possible |
| 23:18.27 | Macer | no big deal tho. my MS surface is on its way here. have to wait on UPS to bring it |
| 23:18.51 | Macer | i'm still wondering how tmobile was able to knowi was tethering tho |
| 23:18.56 | Macer | maybe by the browser id on my laptop? |
| 23:19.02 | Macer | it only stops port 80 |
| 23:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 23:19.16 | Macer | odd thing is it also stops it if i ssh tunnel port 80 to another port |
| 23:19.28 | Macer | i was using mobile hotspot on the n900 |
| 23:19.34 | Macer | tethered to my windows laptop |
| 23:19.43 | Macer | tmobile managed to redirect my browser to "you're tething" heh |
| 23:19.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | UH! |
| 23:19.54 | Macer | maybe it's some awkward cookie |
| 23:19.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 23:20.02 | Macer | not sure exactly how they did it |
| 23:20.15 | Macer | "tethering" |
| 23:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | suckers |
| 23:20.33 | Macer | it has to be because when i swap to a different browser it doesn't happen |
| 23:20.48 | Macer | it did it on a linux laptop too heh |
| 23:20.52 | Macer | i used opera and it redirected |
| 23:20.56 | Macer | i used rekonq and it didn't |
| 23:21.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems it checks for known browser IDs |
| 23:21.18 | Macer | might be a cookie + browser id i suppose |
| 23:21.20 | Macer | yeah |
| 23:21.32 | Macer | i hope the windows rt browser uses some sort of mobile flag :) |
| 23:21.54 | Macer | although that still doesn't explain how it managed to do it when i tried an ssh tunnel |
| 23:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, just change your browser ID to sth weird |
| 23:21.59 | Macer | it only does it on port 80 |
| 23:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | also using https:// should avoid that more or less |
| 23:22.20 | Macer | yeah. i'll try that when i have to tether again |
| 23:22.31 | Macer | it isn't that big a deal because it doesn't block https heh |
| 23:23.12 | Macer | i tried to tunnel an address to my shell using an oddball port |
| 23:23.20 | Macer | and it still redirected me for some reason |
| 23:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | just use a VPN ;-P |
| 23:24.45 | Macer | yeah. i was going to do that too |
| 23:24.46 | Macer | heh |
| 23:25.08 | Macer | if i couldn't figure out how else to fix it |
| 23:25.27 | Macer | i will worry about it when i get my surface heh |
| 23:25.38 | Macer | i'm just glad the surface supports adhoc |
| 23:25.40 | Macer | unlike android |
| 23:27.40 | xes | NOAA: |
| 23:27.43 | xes | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1374691#post1374691 |
| 23:37.47 | Win7Mac | tuned in to that suggested youtube mix and really enjoy it! my personal recommendation: DMB live in Central Park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL_czyUro7o&list=PLEC3F45F1E5B075BE |
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| 23:38.47 | Win7Mac | *suggested zappa mix... alays found it too edgy earlier |
| 23:39.10 | Win7Mac | in earlier days, ya know |
| 23:39.35 | RiD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.46 | RiD | we're talking about music, right? |
| 23:43.58 | Win7Mac | right |
| 23:50.20 | Macer | blah |
| 23:50.36 | Macer | there isn't a way to choose a particular opponent in miniature? |
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