| 00:05.07 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@78.205.5.80) |
| 00:05.07 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 00:24.04 | Win7Mac | <kerio> Win7Mac: do eeet - I deeed...;) |
| 00:24.17 | kerio | i meant the "use all the HiFo money" |
| 00:24.29 | Win7Mac | no, sorry |
| 00:24.52 | Win7Mac | actually, we don't even have acces to it |
| 00:25.20 | GeneralAntilles | Stupid First Niagara. |
| 00:28.04 | Win7Mac | but honestly, HiFo donations done so far are *not* for Neo900! so much should be clear, right?! |
| 00:29.53 | GeneralAntilles | Gotta keep the infra up. |
| 00:30.17 | GeneralAntilles | HiFi can certainly do some advertising on Neo900's behalf, though. |
| 00:31.31 | Win7Mac | right, HiFo will for sure officially support that project but not financially. Neo900 project should have its own base on kickstarter/indiegogo |
| 00:32.11 | Win7Mac | if you ask me... ;) |
| 00:33.33 | Win7Mac | and I assume it will gather some thousand$$ for sure |
| 00:36.46 | GeneralAntilles | We only wish HiFi had the tens of Ks floating around for that. |
| 00:37.07 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@cpe-098-026-214-185.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 00:37.42 | Win7Mac | right |
| 00:54.48 | *** join/#maemo Snafu7 (~Snafu@cpe-173-093-174-187.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:55.17 | Snafu7 | . |
| 00:55.28 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~Snafu@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 00:57.51 | Win7Mac | waves gn o/ |
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| 01:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
| 01:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | had some funny time in my pub. Drunken weird chick |
| 01:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | Congratulations |
| 01:09.03 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 01:09.14 | freemangordon | so you think you're the only one :D |
| 01:09.35 | freemangordon | night doc |
| 01:11.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I left before it got too embarrassing (not for me) |
| 01:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | also the drinks are cheaper and better here at home |
| 01:12.48 | freemangordon | what about girls? |
| 01:13.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, there's ~4 billion of them |
| 01:13.42 | GeneralAntilles | Boo |
| 01:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi GA |
| 01:14.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess? |
| 01:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't tell you about who's in my house. That's private |
| 01:15.46 | freemangordon | I though we're friends :( |
| 01:15.49 | freemangordon | :D:D:D |
| 01:16.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can tell you though that several of those who are here wouldn't have appreciated when I brought that weird chick here :-) |
| 01:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl me |
| 01:17.31 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, did the short Maemo vacation treat you OK? |
| 01:17.33 | RiD | freemangordon haha i laughed at in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess? |
| 01:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, its from -10% to something positive again |
| 01:18.18 | RiD | -- equals + |
| 01:18.22 | GeneralAntilles | That's something. |
| 01:18.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? come on, isn't it clear I am kidding you? |
| 01:18.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | then again my medical doctors try to ruin my life |
| 01:19.01 | freemangordon | has to work on his english |
| 01:19.16 | RiD | im satesfed wit my english skels |
| 01:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | has to work on his british humour |
| 01:19.53 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, you should tell them you're fine and go skiing. |
| 01:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | got appointments |
| 01:20.36 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 01:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least highly intriguing technical stuff to check out ;-) |
| 01:21.53 | GeneralAntilles | Good way to look at it. |
| 01:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | always wondered how they ramp up those supraconducting magnets |
| 01:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | must be several 1000s of ampere in there |
| 01:23.18 | *** join/#maemo triggerhappy (~quassel@58.69.81.118) |
| 01:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | do they use a little motor with a lever and a magnet at the end? |
| 01:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | "wind it up" like a spring in a clock? |
| 01:25.09 | robbiethe1st | DocScrutinizer05, how do you mean? |
| 01:25.39 | robbiethe1st | Probably use a massive electromagnet? |
| 01:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you got a ring of supraconductor, how do you create a 5000A current flowing thru it causing a several Tesla magnet field? |
| 01:26.39 | freemangordon | by external magnetic field? |
| 01:27.01 | GeneralAntilles | Magic, duh. |
| 01:27.07 | RiD | i agree with him ^ |
| 01:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, as soon as that external magnetic field collapses, it will eat all the energy from the supra magnet |
| 01:27.28 | freemangordon | hmm, no |
| 01:27.29 | RiD | supra supra... toyota |
| 01:27.54 | GeneralAntilles | Overrated, get yourself a BRZ or something. |
| 01:28.02 | freemangordon | because have some current nducted inthe superconductor |
| 01:28.10 | freemangordon | *you have |
| 01:28.52 | RiD | GeneralAntilles ugly |
| 01:29.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | an external field causes not any current flux in a conductor, it's the cange in field that causes the current. When you ramp up and ramp down a field, the resulting integral in the conductor will be exactly zilch |
| 01:29.45 | freemangordon | hmm, right |
| 01:29.53 | GeneralAntilles | RiD, boo. |
| 01:29.57 | GeneralAntilles | OK, CTS-V. |
| 01:30.09 | RiD | qyou're going downhill |
| 01:30.17 | RiD | it kinda looks weird |
| 01:30.19 | GeneralAntilles | 550 HP |
| 01:30.33 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: going to ask wikipedia about it |
| 01:30.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | however spinning a small magnet millions of times around the conductor should build up an ever increasing current |
| 01:31.28 | GeneralAntilles | RiD, pick your vehicle. |
| 01:31.28 | RiD | though if i won the lottery, i'd make the ultimate sleeper GeneralAntilles |
| 01:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's where "motor, lever, magnet" comes in |
| 01:31.39 | RiD | something truly hideous that makes you think the car sucks |
| 01:31.40 | GeneralAntilles | Remake the E36 M3 Sedan? |
| 01:31.46 | GeneralAntilles | Oh |
| 01:31.55 | GeneralAntilles | A turbo V8 Gen 4 Camry. |
| 01:32.07 | freemangordon | sure, but the point is that SC should keep the current/magnetic field without any external stuff changed |
| 01:32.15 | *** join/#maemo mschlens (~mschlens@p5DE7A96C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:32.25 | RiD | http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Toyota-Camry-gen3.jpg |
| 01:32.33 | RiD | hmh |
| 01:32.40 | GeneralAntilles | Gen 3 is a little tight in the engine compartment. |
| 01:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: that's the whole point |
| 01:32.52 | RiD | ok |
| 01:32.55 | RiD | you're the expert |
| 01:33.11 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 01:33.22 | GeneralAntilles | Well, I don't disagree with your visual assessment. |
| 01:33.26 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: that is why E46 is the best BMW ever produced |
| 01:33.47 | GeneralAntilles | freemangordon, I like the E36s more. |
| 01:33.58 | GeneralAntilles | Although, if you could cram about 500 HP in an 80s VW Rabbit. . . . |
| 01:34.09 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: e6 looks way ore sexy |
| 01:34.11 | RiD | vw rabbit? |
| 01:34.16 | freemangordon | *e46 |
| 01:34.18 | RiD | is that the golf mk I |
| 01:34.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: a SC "mirrors" whatever magnetic field you "show" to it |
| 01:34.41 | GeneralAntilles | RiD, yeah. |
| 01:34.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | now think of a magnet pushed thru a SC ring |
| 01:34.56 | RiD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPRjsl-QOI |
| 01:34.59 | RiD | is that good enough for you? |
| 01:35.02 | GeneralAntilles | Well, Mk. II |
| 01:35.11 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure. But wait, don't they use SC coils actualy? |
| 01:35.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you return the magnet outside of the ring and push it thru the ring again |
| 01:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | then again, and again |
| 01:35.49 | RiD | 8,65 is definitely not bad. he states it's fully street legal too |
| 01:35.56 | RiD | but im not into that stuff |
| 01:36.13 | GeneralAntilles | I like the rumble of a big American V8. |
| 01:36.24 | GeneralAntilles | Turbo I-4s just don't have the same visceral feel to them. |
| 01:36.34 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: my old BMW was e36, my current is e46. honestly, e46 is waay better |
| 01:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | after doing this 1000 times the SC ring should have a magnetic field of either 1000 or even 2000 times your small magnet you pushed |
| 01:37.11 | GeneralAntilles | freemangordon, ah. |
| 01:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | no? |
| 01:37.29 | GeneralAntilles | I have a particular fondness for that mid-90s BMW look. |
| 01:37.30 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think I know what happens, it is just that I am few jacks ahead right now to think about it |
| 01:37.50 | GeneralAntilles | I'd really love to find an E30 M3 for a reasonable price. |
| 01:38.04 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: the first bummer I was driving was E21 :P |
| 01:38.52 | GeneralAntilles | Lucky man. |
| 01:39.10 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: well, I am in Europe after all :) |
| 01:39.22 | RiD | what is that supposed to mean |
| 01:39.24 | GeneralAntilles | putters around in a Gen 4 I-4 5-speed Camry. |
| 01:39.41 | freemangordon | RiD: AFAIK GeneralAntilles is in USA |
| 01:39.49 | GeneralAntilles | USA USA |
| 01:39.52 | RiD | oh crap, i forgot about rockbox too |
| 01:39.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask sixwheeledbeast |
| 01:39.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 01:40.00 | freemangordon | me too :P |
| 01:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was really baffled about what his nick refers to |
| 01:41.01 | GeneralAntilles | Random aside: read Wool. It's excellent (as is the rest of the series). |
| 01:41.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and now I finally get me that cold pizza from yesterday |
| 01:41.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: six wheeled motorcycle or something |
| 01:41.57 | freemangordon | I remember you were there when he explained |
| 01:42.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually a pickup |
| 01:42.05 | freemangordon | oh, yeah |
| 01:42.09 | GeneralAntilles | Truck |
| 01:42.14 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 01:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | of which only 20 orso got built |
| 01:42.33 | GeneralAntilles | http://0.tqn.com/d/trucks/1/0/9/B/1/diesel_tundra_4.jpg |
| 01:42.38 | GeneralAntilles | They're all over the place. |
| 01:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | NAH! |
| 01:42.51 | GeneralAntilles | We don't tax gas to infinite and beyond here. |
| 01:43.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | some 500HP 3 axes pickup |
| 01:43.43 | GeneralAntilles | See a lot of them towing horses here. |
| 01:43.56 | freemangordon | having 500hp is just not fair :( |
| 01:44.09 | robbiethe1st | My dad's got an old Ford dually, 6-wheels there |
| 01:45.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: hi! |
| 01:45.56 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMW_3er_%28E46,_1998%E2%80%932001%29_front_MJ.JPG :P |
| 01:46.02 | robbiethe1st | ...also, diesel, with /maby/ 200HP, on a good day |
| 01:46.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: could you manage a devel device for robbiethe1st? |
| 01:46.26 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 01:46.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | he seriously honestly deserves and needs one |
| 01:46.47 | robbiethe1st | We'll see by tomorrow if I need one; I found something on ebay, just slightly broken, and offered the guy $80 |
| 01:46.53 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, no bank access. |
| 01:46.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
| 01:47.01 | robbiethe1st | Can't really afford it right now, but... |
| 01:47.36 | GeneralAntilles | Bank manager at First Niagara was a complete dick to Woody. |
| 01:47.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's plain silly |
| 01:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | what about that lawyer who created that mess? can't he transfer the money to any more sane and tangible place? |
| 01:49.27 | robbiethe1st | Also, yes. I would suggest using a credit union instead of a bank |
| 01:49.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm still wondering what to do, call police or talk to hells angels |
| 01:49.42 | robbiethe1st | CUs are almost always nicer to work with |
| 01:52.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, I feel like chief of idiot crew hearing we got ~4k$ of donations but don't have the money to pay robbiethe1st a device for 100$ |
| 01:53.02 | robbiethe1st | XD |
| 01:53.13 | robbiethe1st | Take it over yourself |
| 01:53.16 | GeneralAntilles | Donations are for infra. |
| 01:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not all of them |
| 01:53.42 | GeneralAntilles | Going to attempt to form a German e.V. and open an account there |
| 01:54.03 | GeneralAntilles | Get them to cut a check for the new corporate account. |
| 01:54.07 | robbiethe1st | Thing I've found is that, no matter what the problem is, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. |
| 01:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that will for sure happen tomorrow and pan out effortlessly |
| 01:55.04 | RiD | robbiethe1st what happened? |
| 01:55.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | is taking 80$ from "his" "funds" "account" and transferring it to robbiethe1st |
| 01:55.34 | robbiethe1st | RiD, how do you mean? This applies to anything at work |
| 01:55.47 | RiD | no no no, i mean your n900 |
| 01:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | broken |
| 01:56.00 | RiD | how badly broken |
| 01:56.08 | RiD | did it set itself on fire |
| 01:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sufficiently bad to not allow BM maintenance and development |
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| 01:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just so fed up that such stuff always gets paid by me or woody from our private wallet |
| 01:57.24 | robbiethe1st | Lets see. I currently have three. My original one has a broken USB port. My current one has a broken cellmodem, but otherwise works... and I use it every day |
| 01:57.56 | RiD | i currently have 1 and spare parts of a broken one that i bought.. the owner scammed me |
| 01:58.39 | RiD | the one that works has a broken usb obviously |
| 01:59.22 | robbiethe1st | My third has a broken USB port, and may or may not have a working cellmodem |
| 01:59.37 | robbiethe1st | Note that #2 and #3 were both bought broken, because they were cheap |
| 01:59.51 | RiD | define cheap btw |
| 02:00.10 | robbiethe1st | This was several years ago(2-3), so around $100 |
| 02:00.14 | robbiethe1st | when devices were $300 |
| 02:00.14 | RiD | I see |
| 02:00.26 | RiD | i got one with a totally busted mobo for 45 |
| 02:00.36 | robbiethe1st | two devices for like $120, versus a new/good one for 300. |
| 02:00.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | is going to write invoices for his overtime and other expenses and send them to HiFo |
| 02:00.46 | RiD | everything else was supposed to be in quite good state. Ah, horrible it was. |
| 02:01.44 | RiD | this week i'm going to buy another N900. I know for a fact that this one actually works and the usb is not broken |
| 02:02.09 | RiD | i'll be able to check the most vital things though, before buying |
| 02:02.34 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, no bank access. :P |
| 02:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just glad that friggin PP account of HiFo also is broken |
| 02:04.52 | GeneralAntilles | If you want to expedite it, help Win7Mac draft the legal documents for the e.V. |
| 02:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if I could come up with a way how HiFo could have get fsckd up any more than it is now |
| 02:05.15 | GeneralAntilles | Pointless complaining. |
| 02:05.17 | GeneralAntilles | We're working on it. |
| 02:05.22 | GeneralAntilles | The people who made the mess are gone. |
| 02:05.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, embarrassing |
| 02:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | give me the address and name, I'll find somebody to tell them |
| 02:07.06 | GeneralAntilles | That's why we had a special election. |
| 02:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when we got an e.V. in Germany. Then what? |
| 02:07.28 | GeneralAntilles | Then no dealing with US taxes or First Niagara |
| 02:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that changing anything about the no-access issue? |
| 02:07.36 | GeneralAntilles | They'll cut a check to a Germany corporate account |
| 02:07.49 | GeneralAntilles | and then we have access to the money and can open up PayPal donations. |
| 02:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, transfer the shit to your account!!! or mine! |
| 02:08.16 | RiD | ...or mine :D |
| 02:08.24 | GeneralAntilles | Can't |
| 02:08.26 | GeneralAntilles | Don't have access |
| 02:08.33 | GeneralAntilles | First Niagara refuses to give us access |
| 02:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so HOW IS THAT going to CHANGE? |
| 02:08.40 | robbiethe1st | Who has access? |
| 02:08.46 | GeneralAntilles | Nobody |
| 02:09.03 | GeneralAntilles | But they agreed to cut a check to another Hildon Foundation corporate account. |
| 02:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit! |
| 02:09.14 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 02:09.15 | GeneralAntilles | Well |
| 02:09.29 | GeneralAntilles | Unless you have the time and money to take them to small claims court |
| 02:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | what you for sure should do |
| 02:09.55 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody who speaks German should go ahead and help Win7Mac draft the e.V. docs. |
| 02:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and include that lawyer into that trial |
| 02:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, no german e.V. will have any credibility at some fuckedup 1st nigeria |
| 02:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's on that account's access list? |
| 02:11.21 | GeneralAntilles | I don't believe anyone is |
| 02:11.22 | RiD | first nigeria lol |
| 02:11.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | that dude the HECK goes and transfers the whole money to some other account! |
| 02:11.29 | GeneralAntilles | Rob was removed |
| 02:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | when nobody is then the money is lost forever |
| 02:11.50 | GeneralAntilles | and they refuse to acknowledge our corporate resolution to add Woody & Co. |
| 02:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | are they NUTS?? |
| 02:12.14 | GeneralAntilles | Money's in the account, but nobody currently has access, bank manager is an uncooperative asshole. |
| 02:12.23 | GeneralAntilles | So, we're working through it as best we can. |
| 02:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | buys a one way ticket to USA, and a winchester |
| 02:12.36 | GeneralAntilles | They agreed to cut a check to another HiFo corporate account. |
| 02:13.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the holy fuck is " another HiFo corporate account"??? |
| 02:13.17 | GeneralAntilles | One opened with a German bank. |
| 02:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is no corporation! |
| 02:13.22 | GeneralAntilles | To go with the e.V. |
| 02:13.24 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, yes it is. |
| 02:13.36 | GeneralAntilles | Incorporated in the state of Pennsylvania. |
| 02:13.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is so terribly ridiculous |
| 02:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gonna fly over there and beat up Rob the correct way |
| 02:14.46 | *** part/#maemo Snafu777 (~Snafu@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 02:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe homeland security can help |
| 02:15.19 | robbiethe1st | BTW, I'm in the US, I will offer what I can |
| 02:15.36 | robbiethe1st | I'm in Idaho, though, which makes it a little hard for some things |
| 02:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: ask what a raid command will ask for! |
| 02:16.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think Mr R.M.B. loudly asked for something like that |
| 02:16.43 | robbiethe1st | huh? |
| 02:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rob obviously managed to get himself removed from account access list (as the only one on there) and failed to get anybody else on |
| 02:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | he effectively donated stuff to first nigeria |
| 02:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | with nobody on access list, nobody ever can claim the donations anytime again |
| 02:21.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck, he even might have taken the money and now laughs at maemo community |
| 02:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll never know |
| 02:21.36 | GeneralAntilles | Sure we do. |
| 02:21.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 02:21.59 | GeneralAntilles | They agreed to pen a check to another HiFo account. |
| 02:22.04 | GeneralAntilles | The money is still there. |
| 02:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | WHAT THE FUCK **IS** another HiFo account? |
| 02:23.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how do you think anybody on earth could prove this property of any account? |
| 02:24.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the world I live in you got *persons* who can access accounts |
| 02:24.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tell what shall happen to the money on there |
| 02:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | they have to prove their identity |
| 02:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | by passwords, ID card, whatever |
| 02:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Gwrmany you can't even pen an account for some "HiFo" |
| 02:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | or e.V. |
| 02:26.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you always have *persons* that have access |
| 02:28.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book Rob is a burglar |
| 02:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also think today you don't have any checks assigned to names or particular accounts. everybody owning a check can hand it in on whatever account s/he likes |
| 02:32.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there are any checks anyway nowadays. Probably they don't print that stuff anymore |
| 02:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think last time I seen a check is like 20 years ago |
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| 02:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even back then they all had the printed note under "recipient": "or the one handing this check in" and on the backside "strike out of 'or then one that hands in' is considered moot" |
| 02:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account? |
| 02:38.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I more and more understand what happened to the contract with Nokia |
| 02:43.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | if HiFo USA isn't able to open a new account and make that money get transferred from 1st nigra to that new account, how do you think a german e.V. could do? |
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| 03:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | "I got a letter for Mr HiFo. What? Sorry I don't think you actually are Mr. HiFo. You can send somebody to pick up that letter at post office. He just has to prove that Mr. HiFo sent him" |
| 03:19.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds sane, no? whom would you send? |
| 03:19.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | A German maybe? ;-D |
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| 04:09.18 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: you mentioned on http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369935&postcount=141 that OMAP3 chipsets don't work with >512MB RAM then how does the N9 a OMAP3630 chip work with 1GB RAM |
| 04:10.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it? |
| 04:11.12 | thedead1440 | indeed hence the surprise :) |
| 04:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, then I dunno what dos1 found this afternoon |
| 04:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I as well seem to recall we checked what memory sizes the PoP on N900 3430 could actually use, quite some time ago when SpeedEvil and me mused about swapping SoC or PoP for a better one, and we as well found 512MB max. Maybe for 3730 that changed and Dos1 did look at wrong place |
| 04:15.40 | thedead1440 | you mean for 3630 not 3730 |
| 04:15.58 | thedead1440 | possibly thats the reason |
| 04:16.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think x<pair>xxx is the HS variant, while x<impair>xxx is the non-HS variant |
| 04:17.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | like with 3430 and 3530 |
| 04:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end it doesn't matter, Nikolaus will try to source the best SoC he can get |
| 04:19.03 | robbiethe1st | I' |
| 04:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for now we can't tell what that will be |
| 04:19.33 | robbiethe1st | I'm wondering... wouldn't it just be cheaper to take a few old N900s and do some reflow on them; up the Ram? |
| 04:19.41 | robbiethe1st | perhaps do some other simple mods? |
| 04:20.29 | robbiethe1st | Just thinking how much money people would be spending, for a not that much better system, and how few could actually do it |
| 04:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: you're not to the point of this project. We want to create a new device that potentially can get built in a few years still, that we can base on for any successor and that we have full documentation for and full control over every single component |
| 04:22.01 | robbiethe1st | In which case, wouldn't you want to build it with something /signifigantly/ better? |
| 04:22.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, since we want to stay compatible to fremantle |
| 04:22.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and also we already *have* the core GTA04 design, tested and working |
| 04:23.02 | robbiethe1st | What, exactly, does that entail? I mean, isn't most of it just standard libraries and ARM code? |
| 04:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I can't discuss this in detail right now, it's too complex and I'm too tired |
| 04:23.41 | robbiethe1st | Just out of curiosity, what would prevent taking the whole OS, using a new kernel and interface modules, and running it on, say, a Tegra-based tablet? You've got X11 drivers etc? |
| 04:23.51 | robbiethe1st | I should ask you tomorrow, then. |
| 04:24.21 | robbiethe1st | (because, that's sort of what I want to try to do myself - got a Nexus 7(gen1), want to get X on it, and hopefully Hildon |
| 04:25.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you think you could port fremantle to a new kernel and a new platform with new peripherals, go ahead talk to pali why he still is basing KP on 2.6.28 and finally *do* it |
| 04:25.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle >> hildon |
| 04:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | porting hildon to a new platform == cordia aiui |
| 04:26.55 | chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, he's gone, and clearly needs to research... |
| 04:27.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't mean you got a new fremantle device, with all the apps from fremantle readily available |
| 04:27.41 | chainsawbike | but this GTA04 project does look interesting... will be following closely |
| 04:30.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like trying to mount a new engine into a car with broken engine, and maybe even a new engine with 50% more power. And all the time guys pass by asking "hey! why don't you build a Ferrari instead?" |
| 04:31.17 | chainsawbike | "wanna help? we will need cash, and plenty of it?" |
| 04:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | while same time my wife tells me she shreddered all our credit cards |
| 04:32.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | together with the money we had in the house |
| 04:43.17 | korhojoa | wat |
| 04:43.26 | korhojoa | why would she shred money :( |
| 04:46.09 | chainsawbike | MUAHAHAHAHAH i have a shredder! |
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| 06:32.21 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: Can maemo infra provide for us supl-proxy with *non*self-signed certificate? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369745&postcount=101 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369854&postcount=102 |
| 06:33.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: btw, in above link are other supl servers |
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| 06:43.22 | freemangordon_ | Pali: can't we just replace the certificate? |
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| 06:45.55 | Pali | freemangordon: that is only proxy and you can use any certificate on your own proxy server |
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| 06:46.10 | Pali | so also maemo.org SSL certificate which is trusted |
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| 06:48.10 | freemangordon | Pali: I got that, but why put additional pressure on the maemo infra if we can use the correct certificate on the device. I guess we can take it from N9 |
| 06:50.05 | freemangordon | oh, wait |
| 06:50.34 | freemangordon | I guess we should change liblocation |
| 06:54.54 | freemangordon | Pali: seems we are missing some root cert on the device |
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| 07:03.11 | freemangordon | Pali: well, "openssl s_client -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/" gives Verify return code: 0 (ok) |
| 07:08.01 | Veggen | freemangordon: supl.nokia.com:7275 provides every certificate up to and including the Verisign root certificate. |
| 07:08.38 | Veggen | However: it's the version of the root-certificate signed with md2 hash algorithm, considered unsafe, so lots of software have started not trusting it. |
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| 07:09.14 | freemangordon | Veggen: why then if I give -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/ to openssl, the verification does not fail? |
| 07:09.15 | Veggen | there exists a new version, drop-in-replacement, signed with sha1. |
| 07:10.01 | Veggen | ...because it's the same keys? And openssl does trust it. |
| 07:10.44 | freemangordon | Veggen: "...so lots of software have started not trusting it." - nothing changed on n900 side |
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| 07:11.09 | freemangordon | so I can't see how it stared to not trust it |
| 07:11.16 | Veggen | hmm. |
| 07:12.36 | Veggen | well. Maybe they did something on the supl.nokia.com side? |
| 07:12.52 | freemangordon | that's for sure |
| 07:12.54 | freemangordon | :) |
| 07:12.55 | Pali | supl.nokia.com is self-signed |
| 07:12.59 | Pali | read that TMO links |
| 07:13.04 | Veggen | Pali: uhm...no. |
| 07:13.14 | freemangordon | Pali: it is not if I read the openssl output correctly |
| 07:13.23 | Pali | ok |
| 07:13.33 | freemangordon | Pali: try "openssl s_client -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/" |
| 07:14.04 | Veggen | freemangordon: SSL-wise, they don't have to provide the root certificate in the chain. As supl.nokia.com does. |
| 07:14.15 | freemangordon | oh, I see |
| 07:14.46 | freemangordon | Veggen: but wait, N9/50 does not have any problem with it |
| 07:15.02 | Pali | anyway, there are some other hidden gconf keys for supl location daemon |
| 07:15.10 | Pali | which are not exported to GUI |
| 07:15.21 | Pali | look at gconf file included in location packages |
| 07:15.23 | Veggen | However, usually it doesn't hurt. But if they recently change to provide it, maybe because of infrastructure changes...then maybe they provide it now and not before. |
| 07:15.46 | Veggen | freemangordon: different software components on the client side might be more picky. |
| 07:16.42 | Veggen | Now I am just guessing at possible explanations. But I did have *exactly* that problem myself, for a site I do SSL-certificate-management for. |
| 07:16.45 | freemangordon | Veggen: sure, but if we have a problem in openssl, lets upgrade/fix it then, instead of setting up supl proxy on maemo infra :) |
| 07:17.11 | freemangordon | Veggen: how did you fix it? |
| 07:17.55 | Veggen | I stopped having the root certificate in the chain. |
| 07:18.06 | freemangordon | hmm won;t work for us :) |
| 07:18.46 | Veggen | Mind you, it did require convincing a $three_letter_bigcorp to implement a change in their SSL stack. |
| 07:19.42 | Veggen | Luckily, I represented a $very_large_financial_customer in this case. |
| 07:19.49 | freemangordon | :D |
| 07:20.09 | freemangordon | however, it seems we have some problem on N900 |
| 07:20.24 | freemangordon | maybe time to RE liblocation |
| 07:20.51 | Veggen | unfortunately, I have no more N900. |
| 07:21.02 | Veggen | hmm, or maybe I have. |
| 07:21.20 | Veggen | it was my N9 that was lost in a Dubai Taxi. |
| 07:21.41 | freemangordon | damn, it is not liblocation :( |
| 07:22.01 | freemangordon | Pali: do we have any idea which binary is failing to connect to supl server? |
| 07:22.24 | Pali | location-daemon binary |
| 07:23.16 | freemangordon | Pali: sure? I can only find /usr/bin/location-proxy |
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| 07:24.52 | Pali | so location-proxy |
| 07:25.01 | Pali | it is that big daemon binary |
| 07:25.20 | Pali | grep for gconf keys |
| 07:25.30 | freemangordon | Pali: hmm, this is some 30k binary, why big? |
| 07:26.19 | Pali | do not remember, but there was some small libraries and one executable daemon binary |
| 07:26.34 | Pali | and I found there some hidden gconf keys |
| 07:26.46 | freemangordon | I guess it makes way more sense to RE this, instead of libhildon-plugins-notify-sv.so. ade won;t be happy :D |
| 07:27.05 | freemangordon | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 31988 Mar 2 2010 /usr/bin/location-proxy |
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| 07:43.21 | sLumPia | Hi guys...Is N900 support power bank? |
| 07:43.53 | sLumPia | I have try several power bank, none successfully charge N900 battery |
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| 07:48.37 | unclouded | sLumPia: I have a software problem on mine that means I can only charge from a real PC USB port |
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| 07:50.21 | _ade_ | is waving his fist at freemangordon :-) |
| 07:50.45 | freemangordon | :) |
| 07:50.49 | freemangordon | _ade_: morning |
| 07:51.01 | _ade_ | morning |
| 07:52.34 | _ade_ | freemangordon: I would say give the location issues priority above custom alarm sounds :-) |
| 07:52.46 | freemangordon | :nod: |
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| 07:55.24 | sLumPia | unclouded: Sorry, what software problem? Is that only your on N900 or happen on all N900? |
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| 07:56.13 | unclouded | no idea what the problem is. can't tell if your N900 is affected. definitely not all N900s though |
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| 07:58.18 | sLumPia | I have try at least 3 power banks and all of it failed to charged my phone |
| 07:59.26 | freemangordon | Pali: "Aug 28 10:55:45 Nokia-N900 location-proxy[1496]: GLIB DEBUG default - Socket to supl.nokia.com opened, fd=10, verify_res=19" |
| 08:00.08 | freemangordon | seems like it is certman to blame |
| 08:04.15 | Apic | A wonderful splendid good Morning (UGT) on this gorgeous Setting Orange! |
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| 10:45.23 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: IIRC, I did find a gig - but it was a flashless gig. I was assuming it was possible to boot from emmc - perhaps if you did silly things like not bond a ball, or tie a ball high/low using wire |
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| 10:46.05 | SpeedEvil | And 'find' meant 'locate on microns website' - rather than 'find vendor that will ship 5. |
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| 11:58.44 | Sicelo | .ZZZZZ .........................................................ssz......................aazzzzzzzzzzzaa7$).,,,,z.,,,,,,,,8898l!qwgblioimlzzzzzzz |
| 12:01.51 | Apic | Good Sleep. |
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| 12:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: thanks |
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| 12:54.30 | Luke-Jr | anyone want my old N810 Gentoo binpkgs? |
| 12:54.34 | Luke-Jr | considering nuking them |
| 12:54.47 | Win7Mac | <DocScrutinizer05> "so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account?" - 1) register HiFo as e.V. 2) create bank account in germany 3) The bank will cut a check to Hildon Foundation e.V. or transfer the funds to that new bank account |
| 12:55.18 | XATRIX | Hi, found an update for 'mc' |
| 12:55.48 | XATRIX | But it says it can't be installed because of it can't find 'libslang2 |
| 12:56.02 | XATRIX | any way to fix it ? |
| 12:57.02 | Win7Mac | *3) First Niagara wil... |
| 12:58.03 | jaska | drools at the mention of n900 with 4x the ram |
| 12:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: you ever tried to open a bank account for some virtual entity? |
| 12:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: afaik there are no checks that can get handed in to only the account that's written on the check |
| 13:00.41 | Win7Mac | no, but change of members/account access is possible |
| 13:01.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: how would we and who would prove to 1st nagura that the HiFo account is legit and actually related to the US HiFo corporation? |
| 13:01.29 | Win7Mac | send all the papers + translation? |
| 13:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are already ~5 "hildon" entities existing, why can't none of them claim the money? (assuming that 1st nigeria would actually refuse to send the money to account of e.g. http://www.hildon.com/) Quite obviously you could fake whatever papers you like and send them to USA electronically or as FAX |
| 13:05.03 | Win7Mac | ok, I get your point. what can we do? |
| 13:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | when some legit legal HiFo director can't open a new account anywhere in USA and then make 1st niagra send the money to that new USA account, then why would a german e.V be able to make them send the money to a german account? |
| 13:06.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see anything that can be done anymore |
| 13:06.54 | Win7Mac | did you see woodys mail from 20.08.2013 21:45? |
| 13:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rob fucked it up thoroughly for whole maemo community |
| 13:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 13:07.10 | Win7Mac | do you have it? |
| 13:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 13:07.48 | Win7Mac | hm, you were cc'd. anyway, just a sec |
| 13:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, then I must have it |
| 13:09.42 | Win7Mac | sent |
| 13:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | subject? |
| 13:09.56 | Apic | Subject == Object |
| 13:09.59 | Win7Mac | First Niagra being a PITA. |
| 13:10.08 | Win7Mac | ;) |
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| 13:20.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder why the heck the original mail didn't make it |
| 13:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should reread this mail carefully. Woody is clearly stating what he got told by Mike, and aiui the check option been not a quote of Mike's words |
| 13:22.05 | Win7Mac | from woodys mail - we prolly could write a new "Corporate Resolution to appoint new trustees" for Woody only |
| 13:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 13:22.35 | Win7Mac | First Niagara might except that |
| 13:22.56 | Win7Mac | that for sure would be the fastest to get hold of the money |
| 13:23.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you moost probably should find a new bank in USA with friendly competent employees, and ask them to help claim the money from 1stN |
| 13:23.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | most* |
| 13:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | one bank knows the other bank's weird thinking and how to cope with it |
| 13:25.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | find a new bank, talk to them and explain to them what you need, what you want to be able to do with that account, show them the existing papers and ask them if they need any other or additional documents to set up a working account and to claim the money from 1st niagara |
| 13:27.30 | Win7Mac | it'd be an interim solution just to get the money asap. We'd kill that account as soon as we have the e.v. |
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| 13:28.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno US banks, but here in Germany at least there's a think called "Bankeinzugsverfahren" where the destination account bank initiates the transfer, based on some permission the owner of the drafted account gave to the owner of the drafting account |
| 13:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/think/thing/ |
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| 13:31.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | since there's no verification about said permission on drafted side, the drafting side bank has to make sure the account owner is properly identified, and also they mustn't hand out the money for some period of time after transfer, so drafted side has a chance to check their account and roll back any rogue transfer |
| 13:33.05 | Win7Mac | ok, I'll email Woody |
| 13:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hate to say this, but: I told you for all I know you have to show up physically in a branch of the bank to get you on the access list, and you have to bring ID card or similar, and either the current owner must accompany you or the bank got a signed order from owner to add you (full name, nationality, maybe even ID card number) to the access list |
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| 13:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | any other procedure would seem vulnerable and prone to fraud to me |
| 13:38.50 | Win7Mac | well, a signed order shouldn't be a problem |
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| 13:42.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | from whom? now the account at 1st viagra is fsckdup since Rob removed. I don't think even Rob could sign such order now |
| 13:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically nobody can, since nobody is on the access list anymore aiui. the account is basically orphaned |
| 13:43.46 | Win7Mac | if read that mail right, 1st Niagara accepts Woody only |
| 13:44.47 | Win7Mac | is there something similar to german PostIdent-Verfahren in the US? |
| 13:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think even in germany postident is not sufficient to open or manage a bank account |
| 13:47.51 | Win7Mac | my bank offers it |
| 13:48.08 | Win7Mac | http://www.sparda-bank-hamburg.de/pdf/konto_und_depot/hh_postident_coupon.pdf |
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| 13:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponder the following: every russian mafia boss and every german pimp will happily pay you a few thousand for you doing him the favor to open an account on your name that he can access and use to clean his illegal money |
| 13:50.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | al qaida all the same |
| 13:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a rather terse ruleset what banks may allow and what they never will do, regarding identities and accountability of the individuals who have access to an account |
| 13:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Geldwaeschegesetz |
| 13:54.27 | Win7Mac | right, I'm suggesting to woody to be either 1) only treasurer for the moment to get on the access list 2) open new account with all 3 of us on the access list |
| 13:55.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw similar considerations apply to e.V. - the foundation members maybe have to be Germans, most likely they have to live in Germany |
| 13:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | both |
| 13:55.43 | Win7Mac | where you have that from? |
| 13:56.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | when Woody can do this, he pretty please immediately transfers all money out of the tainted account at 1stN to any other account any of you guys has full access to |
| 13:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't mind if that's a private account of any of you, or you actually manage to create a new account in USA |
| 13:57.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | creating an account is a lightweight and free of charge process, first approach |
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| 13:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you manage to talk to the clerk about the purpose of the account and ask him how to set such thing up properly, all the better |
| 14:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe don't confuse the guy at bank with HiFo foundation nonprofit blabla but simply explain to him you are 5 guys sharing a flat or a house, and the account is for all 5 of you, and eventually one or two of the crew may change |
| 14:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/all 5 of you/the house/ |
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| 14:03.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you of course can tell him about that HiFo club, but that doesn't change the way the account shall work and your house-example was just to explain more easily what you need |
| 14:04.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all this is not terre_des_hommes |
| 14:06.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((where you have that from?)) mere logic. I don't think some Inuit can meet in their igloo and found a german e.V. |
| 14:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | or worse yet: ku klux klan or al qaida |
| 14:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously you at least have to be present in Germany to sign the papers and hand them in, and to check your snailmail box at the official address of the e.V. |
| 14:10.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Ordnungsamt must have a feasible way to verify identity of the inaugural members |
| 14:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to contact them |
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| 14:13.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | err Amt fuer ordentliche Oeffnung |
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| 14:17.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | check "(griechischer|spanischer|tuerkischer|*) Kulturverien" - they are all founded by German residents, though maybe they are Greeks or Spanish or... |
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| 14:27.26 | dhbiker | why is my N900 refusing to ring at random times ? |
| 14:27.36 | dhbiker | like it rings on the first call |
| 14:27.45 | dhbiker | and then on the next it doesn't |
| 14:27.47 | dhbiker | :| |
| 14:27.59 | Win7Mac | sorry, my neighbour just came in, re-read now |
| 14:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: maybe your system is getting hogged by sth. check `df -h` and `top` |
| 14:32.54 | dhbiker | already checked |
| 14:33.01 | dhbiker | and load is always 0.07 or lower |
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| 14:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | also just maybe your accelerometer got a hickup - it does this sometimes. Then your device might *think* it's face-down which means 'mute'. start spirit level app or similar accelerometer readout to check |
| 14:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | load is ok then, what about df? |
| 14:34.32 | dhbiker | root 68% used |
| 14:34.38 | dhbiker | everything else ok |
| 14:36.30 | dhbiker | that's what's strange to me |
| 14:36.35 | dhbiker | nothing special to see |
| 14:37.25 | dhbiker | accelerometer also doing fine |
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| 14:40.09 | dhbiker | well... seems like i have to reflash it soon then :| |
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| 14:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | check syslog (install it if you don't already have it) |
| 14:49.16 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer, I can't find any info saying non-germans cannot be funding members of an e.V. |
| 14:49.37 | Win7Mac | Leitfaden zum Vereinsrecht, page 13: http://www.bmj.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/broschueren_fuer_warenkorb/DE/Leitfaden_Vereinsrecht.html? |
| 14:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | check other sounds. Is it only ringtone that fails or are all sounds broken? what about your profile? And what else is actually working when a call comes in - vibration, missed call notification, dialer popping up? |
| 14:52.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: I'm rather sure they have to have a falid addr in germany, called "ladungsfaehige Anschrift". doesn't matter if they are native Germans or any other nationality, but they can't create a e.V. when they are just moving to Germany in their holiday or even not come to Germany at all and just send some signed papers from Australia |
| 14:52.45 | ludens | anyone else who would like to run fish 2.0 on their N900? |
| 14:52.56 | ludens | i used 1.23something before and it was great |
| 14:53.09 | ludens | but i never managed to compile it myself |
| 14:53.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | fish? that weird filesystem? |
| 14:53.20 | ludens | no the shell |
| 14:53.29 | ludens | http://fishshell.com/ |
| 14:53.58 | Win7Mac | ok, thanks I'll do some more research |
| 14:54.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/falid/valid/. |
| 14:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: also, do you by any chance have per-contact-ringtones installed (package has some different name I can't recall right now)? |
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| 14:58.54 | dhbiker | DocScrutinizer05: nope i don't use per contact ringtones |
| 14:59.02 | dhbiker | sms and call ringtone randomly faily |
| 14:59.16 | dhbiker | also not vibrating when it should |
| 14:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: german e.V. has special protection by law. It as well has some privileges. So you can bet on something in law forbids they abuse this on cayman islands simply by using a fax or one stooge in here |
| 15:00.02 | dhbiker | only thing i have and i use it for more than a year is timed silencer |
| 15:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 15:01.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest dbus-monitor >>sessionbus.log&; dbus-monitor -s >>systembus.log |
| 15:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and syslog |
| 15:01.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply reflash ;-) |
| 15:02.01 | dhbiker | probably just reflash |
| 15:02.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | do a BM backup before! if only for forensics |
| 15:02.43 | dhbiker | i will |
| 15:03.38 | dhbiker | thanks DocScrutinizer05 :> |
| 15:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | a weird idea: does your AV-jack work properly, i.e. does it recognize headset and headphones correctly? |
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| 15:03.48 | dhbiker | oh.. hmm |
| 15:03.50 | dhbiker | let me check |
| 15:04.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | also, check size of your events-db |
| 15:04.24 | dhbiker | yep |
| 15:04.27 | dhbiker | works |
| 15:05.10 | dhbiker | where is that ? |
| 15:05.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventsdb known to hog system to death when it frows to insane sizes. I consider everything >1MB severely insane |
| 15:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | mompls |
| 15:06.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:07.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | el-v1,db |
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| 15:07.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/frows/grows/ |
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| 15:10.15 | dhbiker | 326k |
| 15:10.17 | SAiF | Doc, |
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| 15:23.53 | ludens | nobody here tried the fish shell? |
| 15:24.24 | Apic | Nope |
| 15:24.53 | ludens | its awesome. unfortunately i failed when i tried to build it with the maemo sdk |
| 15:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: syslog and dbus-monitor it is then |
| 15:36.09 | SAiF | ~ping |
| 15:36.09 | infobot | ~pong |
| 15:36.48 | SAiF | ^sorry I am getting used to doing that.. |
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| 15:38.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ping SAiF |
| 15:38.44 | infobot | pong SAiF |
| 15:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~coffee SAiF |
| 15:39.49 | infobot | ACTION steals some of aloril's special coffee and gives it to SAiF on a silver platter. |
| 15:40.15 | SAiF | o.O hoho..:) |
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| 15:41.27 | SAiF | Doc, on Neo900, I won't vote. |
| 15:41.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 15:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't vote if you're not interested |
| 15:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we just need to find out about chances to make that happen |
| 15:42.43 | SAiF | Its not that I am not insterested. |
| 15:43.14 | SAiF | with just above 100bucks (coverterd 8000rs) a month( as a trainee), I cannot vote. |
| 15:44.24 | SAiF | But I would like a feature where .. |
| 15:44.29 | dhbiker | vote ? |
| 15:44.38 | dhbiker | sekrit vote ? :O |
| 15:44.43 | SAiF | I am struggling for english |
| 15:49.01 | SAiF | where I could store some money as an online wallet, where I can only put money now and then, from now on and maemo can take it for developement, and when my wallet reaches the amount at which neo900 is selling, I will get one too. |
| 15:49.08 | SAiF | Somebody rephrase |
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| 16:26.22 | Win7Mac | just had a phonecall with the Deutsche Postbank and they will not accept treasurers who do not show up in a local branch :( |
| 16:26.35 | Win7Mac | for identification |
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| 16:26.55 | Win7Mac | no postident process whatsoever |
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| 16:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: it's pretty clear :-) and thanks, and yes we will probably try to make such thing possible |
| 16:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're about to ponder a donation/fundraiser/kickstarter that does not automatically buy you a device but donations are meant for development. Of course we can plan to send out devices to donors who reached a certain limit, once we got them built |
| 16:50.59 | SAiF | okay doc., |
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| 16:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might go for a combination of first-come-first-serve and those-wo-donated-most. Yet to get evaluated how a fair process should look like |
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| 17:22.55 | dhbiker | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 17:23.06 | dhbiker | do my eyes see right ? :O |
| 17:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
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| 17:26.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | spread the word! |
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| 17:27.10 | dhbiker | will do sir! |
| 17:28.45 | dhbiker | well i guess it's time to restart the development of my EQ :3 |
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| 17:38.14 | dhbiker | also. voted on a poll |
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| 17:42.59 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, how impossible is a specs bump? |
| 17:43.53 | dos1 | GeneralAntilles: for Neo900? |
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| 18:55.27 | GeneralAntilles | dos1, yeah. |
| 18:55.43 | discopig | i'd definitely grab a neo900 |
| 18:55.45 | discopig | depending on price |
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| 18:56.19 | dos1 | GeneralAntilles: some minor spec bump is very possible - we'll try to get the best parts we can afford and find |
| 18:56.27 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 18:56.41 | dos1 | major spec bump (like switching to OMAP4) is probably impossible at all |
| 18:57.09 | discopig | just having usb ports that don't fall off, and some more ram would already do wonders |
| 18:58.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll get both |
| 18:58.57 | discopig | yeah then i'd grab one |
| 18:59.15 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 18:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years |
| 18:59.27 | discopig | nice |
| 19:00.07 | discopig | that would definitely make the device a good bit more future proof |
| 19:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: depends on the particular specs you want to bump |
| 19:01.44 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding SoC we're pretty much limited by what's available and what would be compatible to fremantle |
| 19:02.17 | GeneralAntilles | I think the RAM is probably the biggest bottleneck. |
| 19:02.47 | GeneralAntilles | Ideally, I'd like an N900 formfactor device which can run Sailfish. |
| 19:03.12 | Sicelo | 18:59 < DocScrutinizer05> plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years <<<<------ how would this be guaranteed? |
| 19:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus said we theoretically could go OMAP4 since the increased height isn't a problem maybe in Neo900 - unlike GTA02/04 - but we would start to leave known ground |
| 19:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: hmm? |
| 19:03.40 | ShadowJK | In practice, there's always someone who will manage to rip out the usb ports |
| 19:03.41 | GeneralAntilles | OMAP4 would be a homerun. |
| 19:03.52 | ShadowJK | has managed to rip out two usb ports on his desktop PC, but so far no N900 usb ports |
| 19:04.20 | ShadowJK | Software will be a big issue for omap4 though, I'd think |
| 19:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no guarantee in life ever. But on GTA04 / Neo900 we use a modem module, and that hardly will suffer from popping-open solder points when you press too hard on the kbd |
| 19:05.00 | discopig | i'm going to try to solder my n900's usb port soon |
| 19:05.08 | discopig | i guess it's a good time to learn |
| 19:05.45 | discopig | one of them is working intermittently so i don't want it to use it anymore until it's soldered and the other one i want to solder it before it starts breaking down |
| 19:06.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: (software issue) that's what I think as well |
| 19:06.59 | GeneralAntilles | Hmm, different goals. I'd like something that'd work with a modern platform more than I want a faster Fremantle device. |
| 19:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole purpose of Neo900 from a maemo community POV is to run maemo on it, preferably binary-compatible |
| 19:07.39 | ShadowJK | There are plenty of devices running "modern platforms" though |
| 19:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 19:08.11 | Win7Mac | but no modern open platforms |
| 19:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not going the doomed path of competing to iPhone et al, like N9 |
| 19:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: oh? |
| 19:09.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | android isn't open? ;-P |
| 19:09.30 | Win7Mac | not for me |
| 19:09.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think android is just as open as maemo, just that android is way more clusterfscked |
| 19:10.26 | Win7Mac | and it's googlefsckedup |
| 19:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe comparable to HARM |
| 19:11.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, and fremantle has cherry and nokia-mail and ovi and all the closed blobs core apps from Nokia |
| 19:11.29 | ShadowJK | I was under the impression that LG Nexus 4 isn't totally impossible to swap out OS on, or whatever the currrent hacker favourite device for this is, the ones they use to host libhybris+Ubuntu or libhybris+Mer/Sailfish on.. |
| 19:11.30 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.46.32.cable.starman.ee) |
| 19:11.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I honestly can't say maemo is more open than android |
| 19:12.19 | discopig | ubuntu touch is interesting |
| 19:12.31 | discopig | on a device with a keyboard and Mir running, it would be a decent maemo alternative |
| 19:12.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, "touch" it then. (ASCNR) |
| 19:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | "unrelated" http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/28/plasma-desktopfx3743.png :-) |
| 19:17.58 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 19:18.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe related to "USB not falling off" |
| 19:18.37 | kerio | aw dammit i was at my aunt's today, and she has one of those usb otg adapters that fits inside the n900 |
| 19:18.42 | kerio | forgot to steal it |
| 19:20.45 | GeneralAntilles | Well, there aren't any N900 formfactor devices out there. |
| 19:20.50 | LjL-Alps | DocScrutinizer05: "Android" the core project/OS seems more open than Maemo from what i can tell... i mean, you can take a 100% open thing and get it to run on something as long as you know how to link it to the hardware. Maemo... i guess there's a free/non-free distinction in the repos, but |
| 19:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: tbh I'd happily gone for N810 formfactor, if it was any feasible |
| 19:23.58 | SpeedEvil | LjL-Alps: There are major structural issues. You end up with an android device, that there is no way to run linux apps on |
| 19:24.03 | SpeedEvil | In general |
| 19:24.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi SpeedEvil |
| 19:24.47 | SpeedEvil | hi |
| 19:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders to eventually abuse SpeedEvil and his expertise for QA and evaluation of GTA04 |
| 19:28.05 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 19:28.28 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil: that's true but that's different from openness of the code... also, some could argue "general" linux apps aren't really any good to run on a phone. i'd say if porting them is easy, though, that's a big plus. |
| 19:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | LjL-Alps: depends |
| 19:28.56 | SpeedEvil | LjL-Alps: To a degree - true. |
| 19:29.18 | SpeedEvil | LjL-Alps: the problem arises when - for example - you want to add an authentication mode to the wifi config. |
| 19:29.22 | SpeedEvil | or setup iptables |
| 19:29.24 | SpeedEvil | Or ... |
| 19:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | a really decently written x11 app should run on embedded just fine |
| 19:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | with only very minor tweaks |
| 19:30.04 | SpeedEvil | there is a significant problem with a consistent UI |
| 19:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas there's much bulls**t out there |
| 19:30.11 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil, it's just not really Linux in any way other than being technically running a Linux kernel :P |
| 19:30.12 | SpeedEvil | But android isn't really great at that anyway |
| 19:30.19 | SpeedEvil | LjL-Alps: quite |
| 19:30.47 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil: but other OS's are not Linux but are still open OS's, is all i'm saying |
| 19:31.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | LjL-Alps: (running linux kernel) not even that |
| 19:31.16 | SpeedEvil | Android is better than ios - sure. |
| 19:31.33 | LjL-Alps | eh i wasn't talking about open OS's |
| 19:31.37 | SpeedEvil | Also - the powersaving is very much 'Oh - powersaving is too complex for app writers' |
| 19:31.38 | LjL-Alps | err yes i was |
| 19:31.42 | LjL-Alps | i wasn't talking about iOS |
| 19:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book android kernel is as much linux as mach is |
| 19:32.06 | SpeedEvil | maemos approach to powersaving was probably sane. |
| 19:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and userland... :-x don't get me started |
| 19:32.19 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil: what was maemo's approach? |
| 19:32.21 | SpeedEvil | needed better tools though |
| 19:32.30 | kerio | LjL-Alps: linux desktop |
| 19:32.34 | SpeedEvil | LjL-Alps: It's the app writers problem. |
| 19:32.46 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:32.54 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil: hmm. |
| 19:33.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | LjL-Alps: maemo approach is "no app shall hog cpu or any other resource for no good reason. When nothing to do: SLEEP!" |
| 19:33.34 | SpeedEvil | This leads to silly stuff on android like persistant apps needing a notification active all the time |
| 19:33.50 | *** join/#maemo qwerty123 (~root@219.91.210.121) |
| 19:34.10 | LjL-Alps | DocScrutinizer05: i personally think this is something (among other things, security-related ones for instance) that on mobile OS's really begs to be kept under control by the OS, not just relied on application writer's goodwill |
| 19:34.19 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 19:35.04 | ShadowJK | You end up with stupid situations, like internet radios that pause if you switch away from the browser tab or the app |
| 19:35.16 | dos1 | on mass-market devices with commercial application stores with loads and loads of shit in them that's good approach |
| 19:35.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: ack |
| 19:35.31 | dos1 | on device you own and you want to control (just like your PC) it sucks |
| 19:35.38 | korhojoa | on maemo it works because devs know this |
| 19:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | some do ;-P |
| 19:35.55 | LjL-Alps | SpeedEvil, apps that don't need to persist 100% of the time but can just respawn when there's enough free RAM to don't need that... while on the other hand, if you have something that *strictly needs to stay on* (because it's a persistent connection to IRC, for example), then in Android UI's situation, it makes total sense to not let the user be unaware of it |
| 19:36.00 | kerio | korhojoa: the solution is not to make the OS dumber, it's to make the devs smarter |
| 19:36.18 | kerio | "when there's enough free ram" |
| 19:36.20 | korhojoa | for android there are so many people doing work that you eventually end up with someone making a shitty but popular application |
| 19:36.21 | kerio | there's never enough free ram |
| 19:36.41 | kerio | if you reduce ram usage, you have more ram for caching |
| 19:37.01 | korhojoa | my busdriver is watching tv series while waiting at the stop |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070816D.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 19:37.44 | korhojoa | has anyone figured out a way to make the n900 have more ram? i mean, has anyone even attempted it? |
| 19:37.55 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 19:38.01 | korhojoa | that would probably require at least a new pcb, if not soc |
| 19:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo handles low RAM amazingly well. Watch OOM in cooperation with HD kick out all the preloaded apps to recalim RAM |
| 19:38.18 | LjL-Alps | well, i like Maemo as a Linux user who doesn't like having restrictions put on his computers (i'd like it much more if it were actually all open source, of course), but i just don't see how Maemo could have scaled to a mass market. while Android clearly has. |
| 19:38.28 | LjL-Alps | DocScrutinizer05: what's HD? |
| 19:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and restart them as soon as you add that swap partition ;-) |
| 19:38.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | hildon desktop |
| 19:38.56 | kerio | korhojoa: the closest thing is cssu-thumb |
| 19:39.00 | kerio | and that's pretty fucking far |
| 19:39.06 | korhojoa | yeah, already running that |
| 19:39.09 | ShadowJK | Oh, one of the popular office applications for android don't have persistent state, so if you for example switch to browser to look something up, ad then switch back to your spreadsheet, there's a risk that instead of getting the spreadsheet back you see the splash loading screen of the office app, and have lost everything since last save |
| 19:39.40 | korhojoa | it's pretty amazing though that they recompiled most of the stuff in thumb |
| 19:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | korhojoa: you ever heard of Neo900? |
| 19:39.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 19:39.54 | korhojoa | no, what's that? |
| 19:39.55 | LjL-Alps | ShadowJK: yeah i don't like that about Android - i shouldn't really be the app's job to handle persistence in my opinion. freeze the app and store its data into flash, if you want, but do it *yourself* (you - the OS) |
| 19:39.58 | SpeedEvil | korhojoa: it is in principle qutite possible to add ram - unfortunately impractical for several reasons. |
| 19:40.06 | LjL-Alps | ShadowJK: (which is called "swap", methinks) |
| 19:40.28 | LjL-Alps | s/i shouldn't/it shouldn't/ |
| 19:40.30 | dos1 | add Neo900 to the topic ;) |
| 19:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new running gag on #maemo: "WUT? you haven't heard of Neo900?!? BWAHAHAHA" ;-D |
| 19:40.40 | korhojoa | SpeedEvil: yeah, well, that's what i meant. someone should tell the chinese clone mfgrs to slap at least 1g of ram in it |
| 19:40.54 | LjL-Alps | heh |
| 19:41.03 | discopig | lol |
| 19:41.13 | LjL-Alps | are the chinese clones actually Maemo-compatible? |
| 19:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nooo waaaay dude |
| 19:41.24 | discopig | the chinese n900's are refurbs |
| 19:41.26 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:41.30 | discopig | they just take pieces from different devices |
| 19:41.38 | discopig | different n900's i mean |
| 19:41.40 | LjL-Alps | back when i was shopping for an N900 three years ago (and then decided for a Milestone instead), there were many things that looked like N900's but weren't really |
| 19:41.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's new original ones, not clones |
| 19:41.54 | LjL-Alps | i remember reading websites that explained what to look for in the pictures to recognize genuine N900s |
| 19:41.54 | korhojoa | so does neo900 have anything to do with the openmoko stuff? |
| 19:42.09 | dos1 | discopig: there are also clearly fake ones |
| 19:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | clones use that notorious dual-SIM chipset with 8MB RAM |
| 19:42.15 | discopig | yeah but those dont run maemo |
| 19:42.17 | dos1 | like dual-sim n900 |
| 19:42.18 | discopig | from what i gathred |
| 19:42.22 | discopig | gathered |
| 19:42.35 | dos1 | of course don't |
| 19:42.50 | LjL-Alps | right that's what i was asking |
| 19:42.52 | LjL-Alps | are "refurbs" generally bad? |
| 19:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 19:43.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends, I guess |
| 19:43.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could catch a lemon |
| 19:43.32 | korhojoa | i had a refurb for 2 weeks, then the microusb tore off |
| 19:43.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ |
| 19:43.45 | LjL-Alps | ouch |
| 19:43.45 | dos1 | if you can get one for $10, then go for it ;) |
| 19:43.48 | LjL-Alps | but then again, the usb is a weak point for any N900 |
| 19:43.52 | LjL-Alps | dos1: heh |
| 19:44.05 | LjL-Alps | well no i don't fancy getting another N900 right now, i'm happy to have gotten one, but that's enough |
| 19:44.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | LjL-Alps: not for *every* |
| 19:44.30 | korhojoa | i was really nice to my refurb too, because my first one lost its port one morning when unplugging it from the charger |
| 19:44.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know of N900 that rather break in two halfs than USB falling out |
| 19:45.05 | *** join/#maemo jas4711 (~jas@2001:16d8:cca1:0:f2de:f1ff:fe16:509b) |
| 19:45.12 | LjL-Alps | korhojoa: i'm using some other charger and cable with mine because this cable has the "hooks" worn out so it basically slides in and out with no force |
| 19:45.14 | LjL-Alps | ... slides in and out with no force |
| 19:45.16 | discopig | DocScrutinizer05, was there any confirmed hw revision to have usb port fixed? |
| 19:45.21 | discopig | like 2101, 2102, 2204, etc |
| 19:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 19:45.51 | korhojoa | unfortunately |
| 19:45.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui they initially had problems with reflow process |
| 19:45.54 | LjL-Alps | DocScrutinizer05: so the other thing you were saying - should i tread lightly on my keyboard, because otherwise i'll break the modem? |
| 19:46.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 19:46.16 | discopig | my usb port is coming loose and i had filed the teeth on my charger |
| 19:46.19 | korhojoa | wat, typing hard breaks the gsm modem? |
| 19:46.22 | discopig | so it just slid in and out effortlessly |
| 19:46.25 | LjL-Alps | any keys/areas particularly affected? |
| 19:46.27 | discopig | and it still got loose enough to not work anymore |
| 19:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | korhojoa: that's what I think, yes |
| 19:46.50 | korhojoa | nice |
| 19:47.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | (areas) well those next to the modem chipset |
| 19:47.15 | discopig | i guess soldering it in place is the only thing to do |
| 19:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | discopig: :nod: |
| 19:47.33 | discopig | not too hard to do either |
| 19:47.35 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: makes sense - i did IRC for a couple of weeks from my phone, and it did die. Though that's a fairly poor sample size |
| 19:47.53 | LjL-Alps | refrains from asking DocScrutinizer05 which ones those are, looks for N900 schematics online |
| 19:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine boy! |
| 19:48.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I had to do, and I'm lazy (now) |
| 19:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | the story is dirt simply: you press hard on kbd -> PCB bends -> huge modem chip solderballs snapp open |
| 19:49.54 | discopig | that is bad design |
| 19:50.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it actually is |
| 19:50.18 | SpeedEvil | It's the sort of issue that's hard to tell if it will or won't be an issue. |
| 19:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we have to make sure we don't do same mistake on Neo900 |
| 19:50.22 | discopig | yeah |
| 19:50.34 | SpeedEvil | There is - almost - no way to tell if that sort of thing will or won't be a problem. |
| 19:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:50.47 | SpeedEvil | Stupid stuff like the exact alloy of the solder balls makes a difference. |
| 19:51.02 | SpeedEvil | And if you use a 0.6 or 0.8mm thick PcB |
| 19:52.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you can plan for an optimized compinent üplacement, gaps in PCB, and support posts at the relevant places (the latter not if you're using a ready built case like we do on Neo900) |
| 19:52.17 | SpeedEvil | Quite. |
| 19:52.33 | SpeedEvil | if you know that the keyboard forces are likely to be an issue - not the earphone jack |
| 19:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | good my typing sucks. Might it be that cat that stomps over my kbd while I type? |
| 19:52.58 | SpeedEvil | seems likely. |
| 19:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily the earphone jack is not very likely to bring any excessive forces onto N900 PCB. Alas that receptacle component might be terribly hard to source |
| 19:54.23 | discopig | yeah |
| 19:54.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | might order 300 directly from Nokia care ;-D |
| 19:55.29 | *** part/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.46.32.cable.starman.ee) |
| 19:56.27 | LjL-Alps | i'm not sure i'd personally care much about binary compatibility with the Neo900... what software are people really using that's closed source or not in the repos? |
| 19:56.46 | *** join/#maemo qwerty123 (~root@219.91.210.121) |
| 19:58.09 | SpeedEvil | angry birds? |
| 19:58.50 | LjL-Alps | i saw some angry birds today, they almost bit me |
| 19:58.55 | LjL-Alps | i wouldn't play with them |
| 19:59.01 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 20:00.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | mere techpr0n: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/28/plasma-desktopJS3743.png you really all should ready the very fine GTA04 System Manual ( http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/37/ ) to get the catch what philosophy the Neo900 is based on |
| 20:00.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ready/read/. |
| 20:00.58 | *** mode/#maemo [+v povbot_] by ChanServ |
| 20:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | dialer? |
| 20:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and as long as nobody goes all the way to recompile all of them, all the apps from extras-* |
| 20:03.07 | LjL-Alps | aren't the apps in extras* compiled by some automated build system maemo.org has? |
| 20:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | for your reference and backround info: fremantle/N900 cmdline tools run on N9/HARM - just copy and done you are |
| 20:03.43 | LjL-Alps | fancy |
| 20:04.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but do you expect such build system to compile them all without any troubles to some new altered OS? |
| 20:04.42 | LjL-Alps | well i guess that depends on whether it isn't binary compatible for some trivial reasons or for some more profound ones, i guess |
| 20:04.44 | LjL-Alps | i think i said i guess twice |
| 20:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then there are dependencies to possibly closed blob binaries that come with Nokia core fremantle |
| 20:04.49 | LjL-Alps | so i must not feel too sure |
| 20:05.00 | LjL-Alps | hmm |
| 20:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what will you do with your "where's next McD" app when liblocation is a blob and doesn't run on new platform? |
| 20:06.53 | LjL-Alps | you're right, tragic |
| 20:07.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, a challenge |
| 20:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're quite confident we can build a hw that allows fremantle porting task force to catch up the remaining incompatibilities in kernel/driver space and patch them out, so liblocation will run as usual |
| 20:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's what we are aiming at |
| 20:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus some spec bumps may be fine, while others are a nogo |
| 20:10.56 | korhojoa | quad-core 2,5ghz omap4? |
| 20:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on whether you can cope with them in kernel/diver/systemland in a way so that userland doesn't notice or doesn't care |
| 20:11.10 | *** join/#maemo Vlad_on_the_road (~Vlad_on_t@ip-66.net-82-216-1.versailles2.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 20:11.14 | LjL-Alps | you mean big.LITTLE eith-core surely, korhojoa? |
| 20:11.18 | LjL-Alps | eight* |
| 20:11.32 | korhojoa | octocore huh |
| 20:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | quadcore maybe no problem (though that's *really* hard to tell), OMAP4 most likely no way, since it's too different to OMAP3 I guess |
| 20:11.57 | LjL-Alps | call it what you want, it has eight cores |
| 20:12.44 | korhojoa | welp, lets just put a via x86 in there |
| 20:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if kernel is multicore-safe |
| 20:13.10 | dos1 | x86 and OMAP3 ARM emulator |
| 20:13.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if all userland is |
| 20:13.57 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | cray with x86 emu running ARM qemu |
| 20:14.30 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: in userland it should be quite easy to limit some process to one core, shouldn't it? |
| 20:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it _should_ not even be needed |
| 20:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it is needed then you already have a problem since you don't know about the fact |
| 20:22.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | curses TI-OMAP PoP specs which are like 8 different flavors, and you simply can't search for available PoP MCP in google |
| 20:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems there's not even a 1GB RAM-only PoP available |
| 20:24.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly wonder if we could go for fast RAM-based pseudo-eMMC swap |
| 20:24.26 | korhojoa | do you guys use compressed swap? |
| 20:24.33 | freemangordon | hmm, Harmattan openssl contains so-called no_check_self_signed.patch which is missing in maemo. /me is going to try if that will solve our supl.nokia.com issue |
| 20:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't be too hard to implement, given we can find some chip with a similar bus |
| 20:24.49 | korhojoa | or whatever it is where you can compress memory instead of swapping it |
| 20:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: rather expect some expired certs. Mind you, this is Nokia! |
| 20:25.37 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: IIRC pin numbers helped |
| 20:25.46 | SpeedEvil | pop ram 196 or whatever |
| 20:26.00 | korhojoa | it bothers me that apt-get frequently gives you a 'will not be installed' error when you try to install stuff that has nokia dependencies |
| 20:26.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, just I'm honestly too :-S to touch that 3000++ pp TRM of DM3730 |
| 20:26.35 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I checked the certificate chain, we are missing one intermediate certificate, but that should not be a problem IMO. And adding it doesn;t solve the problem |
| 20:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | to find out what poincount the PoP interface actually has |
| 20:26.41 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@ip-89-177-125-57.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | then what's the problem after you added it? |
| 20:27.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i bet this patch will fix it ;) |
| 20:27.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | go ahead :-) |
| 20:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got CSSU for a reason ;-D |
| 20:28.19 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: this is not Nokia patch http://cvs.openssl.org/chngview?cn=18260 |
| 20:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 20:28.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | how is that relevant? |
| 20:29.22 | freemangordon | oh, wait, we're on 0.9.8n so it should be there :( |
| 20:29.28 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: nevermind |
| 20:29.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 20:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: make sure you always use IP only, when testing! |
| 20:29.55 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:30.09 | freemangordon | why? |
| 20:30.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin geo-IP introduces geissenbug |
| 20:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | heiseenbug even |
| 20:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | MEH! |
| 20:30.29 | Apic | Moo |
| 20:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | screams and runs |
| 20:31.07 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:31.37 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 20:31.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: and even when using IP, you still will run into random behaviour of the akamai server farm boxen. We seen this just so often on maemo repos |
| 20:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: general rule: don't take *anything* for granted! analyze every single test down to the protocol trace level |
| 20:32.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ethereal is your friend |
| 20:33.32 | freemangordon | well, I trust FF to be able to verify the certificate chain :) |
| 20:33.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might even bet is has dissectors for supl |
| 20:34.15 | freemangordon | there are 2 certs on top for supl.nokia.com cert - 1 intermediate and 1 root |
| 20:34.20 | *** join/#maemo Tekk_ (~user@cpe-071-077-201-212.ec.res.rr.com) |
| 20:34.36 | freemangordon | we have the root cert, the intermediate one is missing |
| 20:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't be surprised if they are messed up due to CNAME |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:35.05 | Tekk_ | Is there any particular trick to getting a microsd card into the n900? I just got one today(bit late to the party, I know :P) and it seems like the metal bit won't quite go down all the way |
| 20:35.34 | freemangordon | no, the error is "Verification failed: self signed certificate" |
| 20:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: be careful not to bend the holder |
| 20:35.56 | Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid |
| 20:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: micro? or usual mini? |
| 20:36.10 | freemangordon | and cmcli is refusing to give any more details |
| 20:36.11 | Tekk_ | microsd. does it expect mini |
| 20:36.13 | Tekk_ | ? |
| 20:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh sorry |
| 20:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | mixed up SD and SIM |
| 20:36.35 | Tekk_ | ah |
| 20:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, the uSD usually fits easily |
| 20:37.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | you just slide it in to full stop |
| 20:37.28 | Tekk_ | got it |
| 20:37.30 | Tekk_ | I was doing it wrong :P |
| 20:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it closes almost by itself, you just slide it to lock |
| 20:37.49 | Tekk_ | I didn't notice the tabs on the actual metal piece to hold the sd card. I thought that you put the sd card right inside and then brought the metal down over |
| 20:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's why I said "slide it in" |
| 20:38.45 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-93-219.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 20:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: congrats for the best device you ever owned, and welcome |
| 20:39.21 | Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: It certainly seems to be that so far :) |
| 20:39.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | take care about your USB! |
| 20:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's flimsy |
| 20:39.43 | Tekk_ | actually my younger brother looked over my my shoulder when I was playing around with it a bit and went "Whoa, that's like a real computer! That's the best phone ever" |
| 20:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, and damn he been right, no? |
| 20:40.33 | Tekk_ | seems that way so far, at least |
| 20:40.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | conect it to your TV to really make him go :-O |
| 20:40.45 | Tekk_ | you can do that? |
| 20:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 20:40.51 | Tekk_ | I'd probably want lxde first, though |
| 20:41.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ ;-D |
| 20:42.14 | Tekk_ | second. I've already managed to misplace my stylus |
| 20:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode |
| 20:42.50 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered |
| 20:43.51 | Win7Mac | I just found a flaw in the laws for an e.V.: all board members have to be available in the EU |
| 20:45.45 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa) |
| 20:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | toldya? |
| 20:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really want to hand this italian guy a beer for his awesome presentation of hostmode as well as AV |
| 20:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | though probably he will owe me two for hostmode ;-P |
| 20:50.06 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:50.41 | Win7Mac | so the situation shows as: elect a new, all-EU-board |
| 20:50.56 | Sicelo | :( |
| 20:53.07 | Win7Mac | also I've found that it's really a long-term job for directors, not good to change every year |
| 20:54.43 | Win7Mac | sorry, that new, all-EU-board must not be elected, we can just do it |
| 20:56.27 | Tekk_ | and people think that socks are bad with just disappearing... |
| 20:56.42 | Win7Mac | as we're basically dropping HiFo in PA |
| 20:58.01 | Win7Mac | Tekk_: ? |
| 20:59.38 | Tekk_ | Win7Mac: I lost my stylus before I even had my n900 for 2 hours :P |
| 20:59.39 | Tekk_ | found it now though |
| 21:00.04 | *** join/#maemo Martix_ (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 21:00.24 | *** join/#maemo mvp (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 21:00.27 | *** join/#maemo qwazix_ (~qwazix@77-2-93.static.cyta.gr) |
| 21:00.28 | Win7Mac | ah, sorry |
| 21:02.19 | Win7Mac | so I suggest, to have community legitimacy, council decides to fund an e.V. and presents 3 EU citizens for board |
| 21:04.15 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, you should definetely be one of them |
| 21:04.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 21:04.55 | Win7Mac | for now, we just need a descision to fund an e.V. from council |
| 21:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | wishes people wouldn't play shock the monkey by highlighting him with some note that has no context but sounds scary ;-P |
| 21:06.06 | Win7Mac | otherwise it'd be like some 7 guys decide to do whatever, which has no community-legitimacy... |
| 21:06.30 | Win7Mac | "shock the monkey"... LOL, sorry |
| 21:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 21:07.32 | Win7Mac | we need 7 peeps for funding with at least 1 director |
| 21:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | just realized that the screen popup for highlights sometimes is annoying |
| 21:08.09 | Win7Mac | de-opt it |
| 21:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much. and prolla all EU-residents, eh? |
| 21:08.20 | Win7Mac | no |
| 21:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly* |
| 21:08.42 | Win7Mac | very good resource: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=110&no_cache=1 |
| 21:08.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | tldr |
| 21:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | gimme summary |
| 21:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had my share of reading about e.V. laws, some 8..12 weeks ago |
| 21:10.09 | Win7Mac | not a summary, but answers to basic questions: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=105&no_cache=1 |
| 21:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | also on some other occasions in my past |
| 21:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have no basic question |
| 21:10.34 | Win7Mac | please look at it |
| 21:12.05 | Win7Mac | same 3 QAs + 2: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=95&no_cache=1 |
| 21:12.38 | Win7Mac | rather weird way of sorting them without direct links to the answers |
| 21:15.20 | Win7Mac | regarding board has to be available in EU see only question "Standort" here: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=112&no_cache=1 |
| 21:18.22 | Win7Mac | Board can be foreigners, but have to live in EU |
| 21:20.11 | dos1 | me, me, choose me! (I don't know what's going on, but being in board sounds nice :3) |
| 21:20.46 | Win7Mac | where do you live? |
| 21:20.48 | dos1 | but probably it's not when you really want to get stuff done I guess ;] |
| 21:20.57 | dos1 | Poland |
| 21:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-28 23:08:14] <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much. and prolly all EU-residents, eh? [2013-08-28 23:08:20] <Win7Mac> no [2013-08-28 23:18:22] <Win7Mac> Board can be foreigners, but have to live in EU |
| 21:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict resident |
| 21:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict 2 resident |
| 21:21.35 | Win7Mac | ok ok ;) |
| 21:24.00 | dos1 | is that e.V. just for attempt to get that funding money back, or for something else too? |
| 21:24.23 | Win7Mac | it's meant to stay as i got it |
| 21:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | board and council came to think that pensilvania law is a PITA, and a german e.V. is more easy to handle and more closely meeting our needs |
| 21:25.18 | Win7Mac | though we have 501(c)(3) status for US I believe |
| 21:25.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is the hugest PITA of all |
| 21:25.55 | Win7Mac | bad if you loose it one day... |
| 21:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have same for e.V. |
| 21:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | called "gemeinnuetzig" |
| 21:26.25 | dos1 | ok, seems reasonable |
| 21:26.26 | Win7Mac | right |
| 21:27.12 | Win7Mac | so there's no real need for hurry, Woody will set up new bank account |
| 21:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to touch that with a 10" pole, unless you *really* *really* *are* "gemeinnuetzig" and need that to save taxes and sign donation-receipts |
| 21:28.04 | Win7Mac | ...where we have access from germany too, hopefully |
| 21:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | we are *not* "gemeinnuetzig" |
| 21:28.41 | Tekk_ | does anything go horribly wrong if I enable the debian armel repo? |
| 21:28.42 | Win7Mac | so you mean we should fund a Verein, just not gemeinnützig? |
| 21:28.51 | Tekk_ | searching on the maemo wiki for "debian" didn't seem to mention that |
| 21:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 21:29.15 | Win7Mac | and you come up with that already NOW? |
| 21:29.29 | Tekk_ | presumably I'd want to pin it so that I only use the debian repos if it's not in maemo ones |
| 21:29.36 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.148.45.148) |
| 21:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | what? an e.V. per definition is not "gemeinnuetzig" per se |
| 21:29.42 | qwazix | Tekk_, don't do that |
| 21:29.56 | Tekk_ | okay |
| 21:30.06 | qwazix | you can try individual packages (most will fail with dependency issues) but don't enable the repo |
| 21:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: maemo is _not_ debian |
| 21:30.40 | qwazix | The N900 (assuming you have one of those) has a very small root partition and you can very quickly fill it up if you install debian armel packages |
| 21:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite it smells and tastes like debian |
| 21:31.17 | qwazix | some debian packages work if you unpack them and run the binary |
| 21:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get dist-upgrade nukes your system *for sure* |
| 21:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly the package management in maemo is debian on acid |
| 21:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | some other stuff in rootfs also isn't exactly debian'ish |
| 21:33.11 | Tekk_ | alright. any maemo repo happen to have emacs? |
| 21:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a chroot called easy-debian. Guess why ;-D |
| 21:33.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, i bet emacs available |
| 21:33.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg |
| 21:33.34 | infobot | [pkg] http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 21:33.55 | Tekk_ | also, there any way to search from app manager? I wasn't able to find it but I'm not too used to the maemo ui yet |
| 21:34.04 | qwazix | just type |
| 21:34.22 | qwazix | when in list with all apps |
| 21:34.28 | Tekk_ | cool |
| 21:34.56 | Tekk_ | hmm |
| 21:35.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | in some rare places (package/app manager HAM, desktop) you _ahve_ to use the hw kbd and simply type, to start a search |
| 21:35.24 | Tekk_ | maemo.org is enabled, and a search in all apps doesn't find emacs |
| 21:35.28 | Tekk_ | but emacs24 is shown in that search |
| 21:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | also contacts |
| 21:35.39 | Tekk_ | do I need to apt-get it or is something wrong? |
| 21:35.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | check your catalogs in HAM |
| 21:36.31 | Tekk_ | maemo.org enabled, freemantle-1.3 distro, free non-free components |
| 21:36.33 | Tekk_ | look about right? |
| 21:36.47 | qwazix | rare? also in contacts, modest, musicplayer |
| 21:36.59 | qwazix | basically everywhere |
| 21:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/emacs24/ --> extras-devel repo |
| 21:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you either enable extras-devel repo in your HAM (beware, it takes literally 7 minutes to update then! and you for sure want to disable it again after installing what you were interested in!), or you get the .deb and install that |
| 21:39.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/emacs24/emacs24_24.2-1_armel.deb |
| 21:39.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | from http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/emacs24/24.2-1/ via http://maemo.org/packages/view/emacs24/ |
| 21:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably even can click on that *.deb URL in the browser (microB) and it should download and install the *.deb |
| 21:40.53 | Win7Mac | so why no "gemeinnuetzigkeit", why the 10ft. pole? The possibility to hand out tax-relevant donation documents will for sure help raising funds |
| 21:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | might not work, then you need to click on the downloaded file again, in filemanager |
| 21:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no it won't. and we ARE NOT gemeinnuetzig! |
| 21:41.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | are we feeding starving children? |
| 21:41.49 | Win7Mac | we provide infra + code for community, that is gemein... |
| 21:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | we are absolutely selfish |
| 21:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have a common hobby |
| 21:42.18 | Win7Mac | we just can't earn money |
| 21:42.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but no mission to save the world |
| 21:42.42 | Win7Mac | e.V.'s are fgor hobbyists |
| 21:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we _can_ earn money, we just have to pay tax - OMYGOD tax for 4kEUR _per_ _year_ |
| 21:43.27 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1370258&postcount=119 |
| 21:43.50 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@93.158.36.53) |
| 21:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly they will donate instead of ask for us paying some tax ;-P |
| 21:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you should adopt the habit to add some context and explanation to your posts |
| 21:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and avoid code tags, they are a pita to read, with those scrollbars |
| 21:46.11 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, the thread context is clear IMO. But in case you've missed it, I got supl.nokia.com working |
| 21:46.15 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@HSI-KBW-046-005-026-043.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 21:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhu, I can't tell that from the post you linked |
| 21:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine anyway. congrats |
| 21:46.59 | freemangordon | "Socket to supl.nokia.com opened, fd=10, verify_res=0" |
| 21:47.12 | Sicelo | really? wow... /me goes to check |
| 21:47.29 | Win7Mac | i still don't get what is bad about gemeinnützig - it will save us from paying taxes *AND* allows big donations with bonus for donator |
| 21:48.12 | Win7Mac | I mean, whats the plus on dropping it? |
| 21:49.20 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox_ (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 21:50.00 | Win7Mac | because we *CAN* be gemeinnuetzig if we want |
| 21:51.23 | Win7Mac | and our income will be from donations or fees *only* |
| 21:51.40 | Win7Mac | or what am I missing? |
| 21:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: "gemeinnuetzig" means you really have to be a help to the world at large, saving starving children or the last wolpertinger. And your tax exempt results in terribly painfull controls of your finances and way more harsh and rigid rules how to run the e.V. |
| 21:58.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly. stay away from "gemeinnuwetzig"! it's exactly the pitfall that HiFo fell in with 501(c)3 |
| 21:59.07 | Win7Mac | fell? |
| 21:59.48 | Win7Mac | finances? - some donations and some expenses for hardware, certificates... thats it! |
| 21:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, what do you think why 501(c)3 never got completed, and why paypal locked the account |
| 22:00.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, do what you like, but don't ask me then! |
| 22:00.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 22:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | FFS |
| 22:00.56 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@g226183033.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:01.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hate that "toldya" ever few days! |
| 22:04.34 | LjL-Alps | the N900 is a cute emulator platform thanks to its composite output :P |
| 22:07.17 | Win7Mac | I'm not sure if 501(c)3 never got completed, and IIRC paypal locked the account because Rob didn't care. But I don't wanna argue, if you advise to drop it - ok, it's not nescessary at all |
| 22:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | look wherever you like, for both 501(c)3 and gemeinnuetzig every sane howto recommends to get a *good* lawyer to get it right |
| 22:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit |
| 22:07.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | buzzword "anerkannt" |
| 22:08.15 | Win7Mac | Point #15: http://vereinsknowhow.de/ |
| 22:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out |
| 22:08.50 | Win7Mac | uups choose "Leifaden" from left menu |
| 22:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | NO I WONT!!!! |
| 22:09.28 | Win7Mac | aahhhh... ok, calm don't, i'll just shut up |
| 22:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | listen buddy, I been member in a few more e.V. than this one. And every of them would for sure have lioved it to not pay taxes. But we had a lawyer to get our stuff right *despite* we were not "gemeinnuetzig" |
| 22:10.33 | LjL-Alps | freemangordon: oh boo, now nobody will write a floss SUPL server like i nudged them to! |
| 22:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know what i'm talking about |
| 22:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Die Körperschaft muss gemeinnützige, mildtätige oder kirchliche Zwecke verfolgen. |
| 22:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Der Zweck muss selbstlos, ausschließlich und unmittelbar verfolgt werden. |
| 22:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Alle Voraussetzungen der Steuerbegünstigung müssen aus der Satzung ersichtlich sein. Die Satzung muss auch die Art der Zweckverwirklichung angeben. |
| 22:12.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | read dat friggin wiki!! |
| 22:12.26 | Win7Mac | should have shared your experience earlier then, probably, anyway sorry for being somewhat arguing, but i really like a good discussion about important stuff |
| 22:12.39 | freemangordon | LjL-Alps: we have a problem in certman, not selecting the correct root cert IMO. I guess fixing it is more important than having supl server :) |
| 22:12.57 | LjL-Alps | heh, fair enough |
| 22:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever said "gemeinnuetziger e.V" |
| 22:13.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I had shared my knowledge more early |
| 22:13.32 | Win7Mac | §1-3 takes care of that, it's already in the draft |
| 22:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, church of maemo |
| 22:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | saving the exinguishing race of N900 |
| 22:14.14 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid00 (~MetalGear@175.142.89.212) |
| 22:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then handing it to the poor. apropos, what's with Robbiethe1st now? |
| 22:15.28 | Win7Mac | church of maemo sounds cool... |
| 22:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | support for a commercial produc tis per se not gemeinnuetzig |
| 22:17.14 | dos1 | Polish Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster is now having problems with registration as religious association |
| 22:17.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when the product got discontinued |
| 22:17.24 | dos1 | i wonder if Church of Maemo could have better luck ;) |
| 22:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither is any pub, nor Apple no matter how much better they make the world with their products |
| 22:20.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and gemeinnuetzigkeit gets approved for the past, not for the future. so when you send out tax-exempt donation-receipts and then you _are_ _not_ gemeinnuetzig, guess who's going to bend over |
| 22:21.54 | Win7Mac | sure, got to be responsible in life for what you do... |
| 22:22.17 | Win7Mac | anyway, if you wanna sell Neo900 via HiFo you'd definetely have a problem with gemeinnuetzig |
| 22:22.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | we _for_ _sure_ never ever will do such thing |
| 22:22.49 | Win7Mac | so, thanks for input and lets move on |
| 22:22.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | (we == GolDeliCo, even when i'm not) |
| 22:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's close to criminal tax-evading |
| 22:23.30 | Win7Mac | i thought we == kickstarter |
| 22:24.00 | dos1 | yeah, I think Golden Delicious is fine with it being the seller of their hardware and won't release that position too easily :D |
| 22:24.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 22:24.26 | Win7Mac | ah ok, fine |
| 22:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and HiFo is no entity to better the world |
| 22:24.53 | Win7Mac | JA, damn it, got you by now... ;) |
| 22:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo 8ot any successor e.V.) is just the cashier of maemo community and council |
| 22:25.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | (or* |
| 22:25.35 | Win7Mac | that's how i see it as well |
| 22:26.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | then scratch any "gemeinnuetzig", managing an account is not making the world better |
| 22:26.37 | Win7Mac | alrighty |
| 22:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | your Finanzamt will tell you, just a bit too late |
| 22:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh we pay taxes - actually income taxes - for errr what? 4000EUR / 12 months? |
| 22:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | DANG! |
| 22:29.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | this must be... close to zilch anyway |
| 22:29.23 | Win7Mac | providing maemo infra to the world might come in for "making the world better" though ;) |
| 22:29.36 | Win7Mac | *count in |
| 22:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a almost commercial service |
| 22:29.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and HiFo is not exactly doing it |
| 22:30.05 | Win7Mac | strictly speaking, yes |
| 22:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, no matter if or if not you can get gemnuetz, it will cost us way more than it earns us |
| 22:30.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | waaaaaaay more |
| 22:31.06 | Win7Mac | copied |
| 22:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | we probably have to pay 2/3 of the lawyer and steuerberater costs from our own pockets |
| 22:31.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | after burning the 4k we have |
| 22:31.40 | Win7Mac | LOL |
| 22:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | been there, seen that |
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| 22:33.16 | Win7Mac | dude... than share those experience here please, if this can even make it on your to-do-list... ;): |
| 22:33.22 | Win7Mac | https://etherpad.mozilla.org/AMabik4zeD |
| 22:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | again?? |
| 22:34.00 | Win7Mac | no, sorry |
| 22:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | copy the chanlog! |
| 22:34.49 | Win7Mac | I'm not really serious |
| 22:35.54 | Win7Mac | I mean of course your input is highly appreciated, just don't take any offense |
| 22:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit#Voraussetzungen_f.C3.BCr_die_Anerkennung |
| 22:38.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | custom, science, education, art, culture, international |
| 22:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | understanding among nations |
| 22:40.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nature conservancy, homeland, animal protection, development cooperation (international) |
| 22:40.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 22:40.53 | dos1 | science - we do science on our phones; education - we educate people about our platform; art - wallpapers! |
| 22:41.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | tradidtional custom |
| 22:41.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | we still use a device that's obsolete since years |
| 22:42.54 | dos1 | understanding among nations - our phones can be used for international calls |
| 22:43.07 | dos1 | and you can install dictionary on them! |
| 22:43.17 | jon_y | >international calls |
| 22:43.44 | jon_y | not really, by virtue of being made non-affordable |
| 22:44.01 | jon_y | sure, only if you are rich and famous |
| 22:44.11 | dos1 | skype/gtalk/ekiga? ;) |
| 22:44.25 | jon_y | yeah that works |
| 22:44.35 | jon_y | but not over traditional cell/landline |
| 22:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | the switzerland definition is pretty helpful: no benefit for yourself |
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| 22:45.55 | dos1 | so we must find some android fanboys who'll just sign some papers for us :) |
| 22:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the auditing is a PITA and nobody really wants to do that. i'd pay 4000EUR to not have to go through such auditing |
| 22:47.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if you fail the auditing then it's time to bend over |
| 22:47.30 | Win7Mac | as i said, you got me convinced |
| 22:47.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since they have no humor at all |
| 22:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you wasted their time |
| 22:48.21 | Win7Mac | m-m-m-my t-t-tax officer st-st-st-stutters... |
| 22:49.04 | Win7Mac | I really have to tear myself not to laugh hard... |
| 22:49.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | such laugh might be the most expensive one of your life |
| 22:50.39 | Win7Mac | i don't laugh, i help him finish the sentences |
| 22:50.48 | Win7Mac | np at all |
| 22:50.59 | Win7Mac | it just sounds funny at times |
| 22:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh, I wonder if GolDeliCo has any insurance for disasters. E.G a lightning strikes the package with the 300 SoCs |
| 22:54.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even worse: the shelf with the 300 devices ready to get shipped |
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| 23:14.51 | Tekk_ | even though it's already decided, weren't you guys talking about eligibility for e.V.? |
| 23:15.29 | Tekk_ | actually I'll just shut up since I know nothing about how that stuff works in europe |
| 23:16.12 | Win7Mac | eligibility for tax-exemption |
| 23:17.16 | Win7Mac | e.V. *can* have that, but it's a PITA as it seems |
| 23:17.44 | Tekk_ | ah. since the qualifications came up I was going to point out that kde has been eV for a very long time, and you're in the same domain |
| 23:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.V yes. tax-excempt - prolly no |
| 23:19.16 | Tekk_ | ah |
| 23:19.30 | Tekk_ | that's where me not knowing anythign about the german organization things comes in :) |
| 23:19.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, kde e.V is actually a pretty good example |
| 23:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh maybe it is -> http://ev.kde.org/corporate/statutes.php |
| 23:22.05 | Win7Mac | http://ev.kde.org/ looks like a good resource |
| 23:22.56 | Win7Mac | Tekk_: thanks! |
| 23:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so they have sufficient turnover to make a tax-exempt audit worth it |
| 23:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | best resource still seems wikipedia page to me |
| 23:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit#Voraussetzungen_f.C3.BCr_die_Anerkennung |
| 23:24.47 | Tekk_ | so germany distinguishes between non-profit and tax-exempt. |
| 23:24.59 | Tekk_ | that was messing me up a bit. I don't think the US has that distinction, but I may bewrong |
| 23:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 23:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, _usually_ an e.V. is not profit oriented |
| 23:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | though there are prominent exceptions, like TUEV |
| 23:26.06 | Tekk_ | ah, my glance over the kde page made me think that an e.V. was by definition non-profit |
| 23:26.10 | Tekk_ | but I'm multitaskign |
| 23:26.17 | Tekk_ | as evidenced by my typos -.- |
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| 23:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | tax exempt is granted to sozial and otherwise strictly non-profit and "helping" e.V. only |
| 23:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | after a painful audit |
| 23:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | which will get re-done every 3 years the latest |
| 23:28.46 | Tekk_ | oh, to get semi back on topic |
| 23:28.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and might result in tax-exempt revoked retroactively for last 3 years |
| 23:28.54 | Tekk_ | is there any way to back up my maemo install? |
| 23:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 23:29.07 | infobot | [backupmenu] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 |
| 23:29.16 | Tekk_ | hold on, that may not cover it |
| 23:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | that does |
| 23:29.43 | Tekk_ | so backupmenu, save my backup somewhere, then I'm free to wipe my device? |
| 23:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | only thing not backed up is kernel |
| 23:29.53 | Tekk_ | there's the problem |
| 23:30.05 | Tekk_ | I want to try out meego, but I'd also like to restore maemo once I'm done :P |
| 23:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | uname -a, tag backup with kernel version |
| 23:30.22 | Tekk_ | cool |
| 23:30.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | meego afaik doesn't touch your kernel |
| 23:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it comes with own alternative kernel on a alternative location, I *think* |
| 23:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | meego howto will elaborate on it |
| 23:31.29 | Tekk_ | thanks |
| 23:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 23:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's stock kernel: Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux |
| 23:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you got sth different, you should make sure you know how to install that kernel before you restore any backup that's based on it |
| 23:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise device will bootloop |
| 23:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | stock kernel gets installed with regular rweflashing the COMBINED process |
| 23:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 |
| 23:34.57 | infobot | well, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 23:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | PR1.3 is fine as well |
| 23:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 23:35.33 | infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 23:35.34 | Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: actually it looks like it won't touch my rootfs anyway |
| 23:35.47 | Tekk_ | the preferred way of installing meego seems to be actually installing on an sd card and booting from that |
| 23:36.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: i am quite sure in installs on uSD or maybe eMMC |
| 23:37.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders how many apps for meego might be available |
| 23:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | for N900-meego |
| 23:37.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | not meego-harmattan |
| 23:38.24 | Win7Mac | what about N9-freemantle? |
| 23:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I even wonder if it's still supported in any way, or already bitrotten to fubar |
| 23:39.02 | Tekk_ | considering how quick nokia was to even drop meego, I wouldn't be surprised if maemo was horribly bitrotten on the n9 |
| 23:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: go ahead, start a project! |
| 23:39.22 | Win7Mac | sure ;) |
| 23:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems nobody is really that much excited about the idea |
| 23:40.14 | Win7Mac | looks like |
| 23:40.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | with Neo900 this might change |
| 23:41.05 | Win7Mac | what? |
| 23:41.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | once we prove that it *can* get ported, some weirdos might consider to actually rewrite all the blobs that won't work on N9 and port it to the coffin |
| 23:42.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, nobody is _that_ weird I guess |
| 23:42.49 | Win7Mac | by then its 2015 and I'm on a Jolla I guess |
| 23:43.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since with cordia you got a way better path to migrate look&feel of maemo fremantle to N9 while sacrificing binary compatibility |
| 23:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when you already need to rework and recompile your app for N9, then why to a target that somehow mimiks fremantle when there's a more modern kernel and core system available on your target platform |
| 23:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't make that much of any sense |
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| 23:53.25 | Win7Mac | how can i strike text in tmo postß |
| 23:53.29 | Win7Mac | ? |
| 23:54.11 | Win7Mac | its not in editor interface |
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