| 00:00.03 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2013/07/02/the-state-of-things-in-2013/ |
| 00:00.13 | HtheB | so does the N900 Wulfe |
| 00:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wulfe: what kind of impact would you hope for? |
| 00:00.41 | Wulfe | yeah but there is still support for the N900 and a lot more apps developed for it |
| 00:01.06 | Wulfe | personally i am just hoping for some new life brought back to the device |
| 00:01.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed rarely ever a new app for diablo |
| 00:01.55 | Wulfe | i been looking in to doing some development myself but its not going very well with limited resources. |
| 00:02.29 | Wulfe | all i have is 1 N810 wimax edition and a shady laptop with the sdk. |
| 00:02.31 | Wulfe | lol |
| 00:03.12 | Wulfe | so eventually when i get the sdk on a better desktop i might be able to get something new going in the extras repo. |
| 00:03.44 | Wulfe | but till then all i have is whats left on the forums, which sadly isnt much being its all mostly out of date info. |
| 00:08.04 | RiD | Wulfe put some real bugs in your n810 |
| 00:08.07 | RiD | boom, it has life |
| 00:08.31 | Wulfe | real bugs? |
| 00:08.47 | RiD | real bugs, yes. |
| 00:08.51 | RiD | actual living things |
| 00:08.55 | Wulfe | oh a joke |
| 00:08.58 | Wulfe | har har har |
| 00:09.03 | RiD | hue hue hue |
| 00:09.11 | RiD | yu spich ingres? |
| 00:09.39 | Wulfe | yes i speak english, and apperently i can translate bad english as well. |
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| 00:10.25 | RiD | that's one skill I tremendously improved these days |
| 00:10.53 | Wulfe | 19 years now on irc it has become second hand nature. |
| 00:11.38 | Wulfe | especialy if you hang on networks like rizon where its main user traffic is trolls and noobs. |
| 00:11.43 | RiD | I shall call it Language Demystification AI System powered by Brain |
| 00:11.58 | Wulfe | haha |
| 00:12.11 | Wulfe | i like it, you should write a book. |
| 00:12.41 | RiD | "How to develop the inner Language Demystifaction AI System you have on your brain, now in a compact booK" |
| 00:12.51 | Wulfe | lol |
| 00:13.03 | Wulfe | this guy ^ |
| 00:13.31 | RiD | understand the inner meaning of random captchas words - they're sending a message |
| 00:15.00 | RiD | http://31.media.tumblr.com/c9042d825a340a299fe7912cc8487f2e/tumblr_mq5eotbjkk1r45a0go1_400.png |
| 00:15.09 | RiD | i cried |
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| 01:03.55 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 01:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | sid_blub: still awake? |
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| 02:07.47 | FIQ | lol there's a minor graphical oops in backupmenu which is driving me nuts :p |
| 02:07.57 | FIQ | oh well |
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| 02:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: hmm? |
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| 05:48.27 | Apic | A wonderful splendid good Morning (UGT) to You all. |
| 06:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoh |
| 06:11.39 | AndrewX192 | usb port sadness |
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| 06:57.33 | WizardNumberNext | hello. Where lock-code is stored? I have my 3rd n900. Unfortunately lock-code isn't default anymore and I would like to have same lock-code on my 3rd as on my 1st. |
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| 07:09.42 | AndrewX192 | WizardNumberNext: /dev/mtd* |
| 07:09.50 | AndrewX192 | not sure which one |
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| 07:26.04 | lexik | DocScrutinizer05: the pottentional n900 for tests: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369407&postcount=42 ... what do you think about it? |
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| 07:29.44 | lexik | DocScrutinizer51: highlight ^^ |
| 07:31.10 | WizardNumberNext | AndrewX192, I know it is some mtd. I need extact location though |
| 07:37.37 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05, idea is nice, but there's no details at all. Kernel 3.1 is bit archaic as well. |
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| 10:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | good (UGT) morning! |
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| 10:11.26 | Apic | Yah |
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| 10:54.42 | Iridos | DocScrutinizer05, now you have to spend some time explaining what ugt is :P it's the rule! |
| 10:55.04 | Iridos | oh, and good morning |
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| 10:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! |
| 10:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ugt |
| 10:56.35 | infobot | from memory, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 10:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | we streamlined that process ;-) |
| 10:57.16 | qwerty123_ | hi what is "alt" key in easy deb.. trying to use finch.. need keys or vkb. |
| 10:57.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually the blue key |
| 10:57.47 | qwerty123_ | nowt working :( |
| 10:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno abozut ED |
| 10:57.56 | qwerty123_ | not. |
| 10:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | try pressing esc instead press+hold alt -- this works for some apps |
| 10:58.54 | qwerty123_ | finch opens in terminal,. so alt key should of maemo?? |
| 11:00.09 | qwerty123_ | no help. pressing+holding, works in easydeb apps. for terminal apps, just pressing does. |
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| 11:01.57 | lexik | is IR on GTA04? |
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| 11:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 11:09.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc it is |
| 11:09.32 | lexik | good :) |
| 11:10.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/37/ |
| 11:10.37 | dos1 | yup, it is |
| 11:10.39 | dos1 | mornin' :) |
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| 11:11.35 | Iridos | pft. I thought you have to spend at least the amount of time it would have taken to figure out everyones timezone |
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| 11:55.16 | lexik | hm.. wordpress client for maemo is nice :) its lightweight, fast and usable |
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| 12:03.10 | qwerty123 | finch |
| 12:03.16 | qwerty123 | atlast |
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| 12:48.46 | Win7Mac | morning! |
| 12:48.55 | Win7Mac | Any chance the Neo900 can run Harmattan, Meego, Sailfish or Ubuntu Touch? |
| 12:49.02 | Win7Mac | Android? |
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| 13:06.06 | SpeedEvil | it can run meego, and android |
| 13:06.09 | SpeedEvil | google nitdroid |
| 13:06.21 | SpeedEvil | And meego is basically dead |
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| 13:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see why it couldn't run sailfish, though the touchscreen doesn't support multitouch as we all know |
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| 13:32.10 | Win7Mac | ah ya, damn |
| 13:33.22 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, did you have a chance to look into my draft for the e.V.? |
| 13:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even seen it |
| 13:33.51 | Win7Mac | https://etherpad.mozilla.org/AMabik4zeD |
| 13:33.59 | Win7Mac | sorry, another webpad... |
| 13:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I dunnop if I'm available for it anymore |
| 13:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might be better off without me |
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| 13:35.04 | Win7Mac | well, feel free to comment on it. your input would much appreciated |
| 13:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | OK, I opened the pad, will look at it later tonight |
| 13:35.14 | Win7Mac | great |
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| 13:36.25 | Win7Mac | how can I get a proper english translation of it? |
| 13:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 13:37.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 13:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask community to help out |
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| 13:45.37 | lexik | Win7Mac: Neo900 will probably be able to run replicant android clon |
| 13:45.58 | lexik | this is much better than nitdroid in my opinion |
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| 16:09.08 | dos1 | former Nokia kernel devs on Neo900 side? wowowow! :D |
| 16:09.25 | freemangordon | dos1: I'll believe when I see it :) |
| 16:10.14 | dos1 | freemangordon: hehe :) but still, it sounds uberamazing |
| 16:11.02 | dos1 | as we need to ensure proper power management, at least in pair to N900 |
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| 16:11.10 | dos1 | GTA04 is rather poor in this regard at the moment |
| 16:12.15 | freemangordon | dos1: And that is one reason why we should keep the kernel as it is, no matter if it is old, wait for Pali to upstream whatever possible, and slowly upgrade it aterwards |
| 16:13.10 | freemangordon | dos1: but maybe I talk nonsense, I don;t know how's gta04 compared to n900 re power management |
| 16:15.36 | dos1 | and I don't know details either |
| 16:18.16 | freemangordon | dos1: hopefully the newer SoC (40nm or even 30nm) will help us when we can't do the proper SW :D |
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| 16:47.54 | szopin | helo |
| 16:48.04 | RiD | helo |
| 16:48.12 | Win7Mac | halo |
| 16:49.27 | szopin | does anyone know if omap3 <-> omap4 would be binary compatible? |
| 16:51.31 | wmarone | should be, they're bot ARMv7 |
| 16:51.34 | wmarone | both* |
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| 16:55.04 | szopin | yes, both armv7 |
| 16:55.50 | dos1 | if you're question is about Neo900, then "they're both armv7" is not enough |
| 16:56.01 | dos1 | think about power management |
| 16:56.04 | szopin | what's missing? drivers? |
| 16:56.26 | freemangordon | szopin: OMAP4 means dual core? |
| 16:56.38 | szopin | yes, it's about neo, didn't want to spam the thread with questions |
| 16:56.40 | szopin | yes |
| 16:56.44 | dos1 | Nokia has invested lots of work into it, and most of ther work are hacks that are not going to be upstreamed anytime |
| 16:57.24 | dos1 | I don't think we have enough capacity to create anything in pair of N900's power management - GTA04 is struggling with power consumption problems |
| 16:57.43 | freemangordon | szopin: I have NFC how fremantle would behave on 2 or more cores, too much of a risk IMO. |
| 16:57.44 | dos1 | keeping it as close to N900 as we can will simplify it a lot |
| 16:58.34 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 16:58.37 | freemangordon | dos1: hopefully there are at least 2 of us knowing n900 kernel enough to do almost whatever we want with it :) |
| 16:58.43 | szopin | yes, but without 'better enough' specs it's going to be a hard sell |
| 16:59.00 | freemangordon | szopin: it is not CPU that makes n900 stutter, no? |
| 16:59.20 | dos1 | szopin: and second factor agains "better enough" is price |
| 16:59.26 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 16:59.29 | szopin | hard to say, so many tweaks... |
| 16:59.55 | freemangordon | szopin: and most of them related to swap - swappolube, swappiness, cssu-thumb, etc. |
| 17:00.01 | dos1 | szopin: with such small production runs, it matters a lot |
| 17:00.04 | wmarone | freemangordon: I'd wager lack of ram before CPU |
| 17:00.18 | szopin | flopswap, swappolube... |
| 17:00.29 | freemangordon | wmarone: anytime :) |
| 17:00.29 | dos1 | I'd love to see Neo900 with 1GB RAM |
| 17:00.37 | freemangordon | me too |
| 17:00.38 | dos1 | we'll just have yet to see if it's possible at all |
| 17:00.46 | wmarone | cause my n9 has had stall moments, but -never- ever as bad as the N900 has had tem |
| 17:00.47 | wmarone | them* |
| 17:00.48 | RiD | i think everyone would love to see it |
| 17:00.50 | szopin | people tweak all they can, OCed to 1150 does seem to work less stuttery that's for sure |
| 17:01.14 | freemangordon | szopin: imagine n900 as it is, just with 1GB or RAM |
| 17:01.29 | RiD | less swap action, sleeping core apps |
| 17:01.37 | dos1 | availability of SoCs in small quantities is crucial here |
| 17:02.22 | dos1 | we may have no choice but to go with 512, so we don't want to spread false excitement |
| 17:02.36 | RiD | it's still double ._. |
| 17:02.59 | freemangordon | szopin: omap3430 @ 600 MHZ is a powerful device. I am not saying that having 2x1GHz is not good, but it is not the CPU that is the bottleneck |
| 17:03.19 | dos1 | I prefer "hey, look, we were able to increase amount of RAM from 512MB to 1GB!" than "oh crap, we are not able to get 1GB, it's going to have 512MB, sorry!" |
| 17:03.51 | szopin | sure... just, with people mostly interested in 300-400 euro area... |
| 17:03.54 | freemangordon | szopin: also, have in mind that never 3xxx have faster memory acceess |
| 17:04.01 | freemangordon | szopin: no way IMO |
| 17:04.11 | szopin | might be better to buy second hand N9's, rip their boards and voila 1gb ram |
| 17:04.19 | RiD | wat |
| 17:04.34 | RiD | good luck porting maemo to it |
| 17:04.38 | freemangordon | szopin: even pin-to-pin compatible, 3630 is not 3430 |
| 17:04.49 | dos1 | szopin: good luck with "ripping their boards" |
| 17:04.49 | szopin | ouch |
| 17:05.00 | wmarone | at that point you might as well port gtk and hildon to Mer/NemoMobile and be done with it |
| 17:05.32 | szopin | so we're stuck with 3430? |
| 17:05.33 | dos1 | hardware world is not that easy :( |
| 17:05.46 | dos1 | poll is for 3730 |
| 17:05.49 | freemangordon | szopin: no, we're stuck with cortexA8 |
| 17:06.01 | dos1 | so I guess it's one of the safe options |
| 17:06.13 | szopin | one sec, checking 3730, must've missed it |
| 17:06.53 | freemangordon | szopin: see, sammy need 4 cores and 2GB of RAM because the OS and SW is highly inefficient |
| 17:07.02 | freemangordon | we don;t have that problem |
| 17:07.14 | szopin | 3730 not even listed in wikipedia :/ |
| 17:07.18 | RiD | 8 cores in some editions, if you want to impress people with numbers |
| 17:07.26 | RiD | despite it being no real benefit other than power saving it seems |
| 17:07.40 | szopin | fmg: sure, but those wpa handshakes are not gonna crack themselves ;D |
| 17:08.01 | freemangordon | szopin: use your S3 for that :P |
| 17:08.09 | dos1 | szopin: TI DM3730, just like in BeagleBoard-xM |
| 17:08.30 | *** join/#maemo Ex-Opesa (~Ex-Opesa@unaffiliated/ex-opesa) |
| 17:08.30 | freemangordon | dos1: this is still c64+ DSP, ain't? |
| 17:08.34 | szopin | fmg: using 64 raided s5's for it |
| 17:08.43 | RiD | so freemangordon, i heard half life is your favorite game |
| 17:08.49 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 17:08.57 | freemangordon | but still no HL3 :( |
| 17:09.05 | RiD | HL3 has 3 letters |
| 17:09.10 | RiD | half life 3 confirmed |
| 17:09.16 | RiD | runs for his life. |
| 17:09.17 | szopin | neo <- 3 letters |
| 17:09.28 | szopin | hl3 confirmed when neo comes out |
| 17:09.38 | freemangordon | yeah, duke nukem forever :D |
| 17:09.47 | RiD | hah, make neo pretend to be a half life 3 crowdfunding kickstarter |
| 17:09.51 | RiD | infinite money source |
| 17:09.54 | freemangordon | but wait, it is out, so why not neo900? |
| 17:10.07 | dos1 | freemangordon: TMS320C64x+TM |
| 17:10.09 | szopin | well, dn forever was shit |
| 17:10.12 | RiD | neo9000 |
| 17:10.13 | *** join/#maemo mashina (~calvin@unaffiliated/prizm) |
| 17:10.29 | mashina | is it just me, or is the N900 GPS completely incompetent? |
| 17:10.32 | freemangordon | dos1: yep, c64x, so we won;t have any probplem with multimedia and such |
| 17:10.41 | freemangordon | mashina: just you |
| 17:10.43 | mashina | (i don't have a SIM, so I can't use cell towers) |
| 17:10.54 | mashina | i can never acquire a lock, even outside |
| 17:10.58 | RiD | better leave it out in the open for 1 hour |
| 17:10.59 | freemangordon | you need to wait 10+ minutes then |
| 17:11.05 | szopin | throw it as high as you can |
| 17:11.16 | freemangordon | hmm, how was that app called? |
| 17:11.19 | RiD | while throwing it, use the n900 fly application so you can measure it |
| 17:11.27 | freemangordon | yep, this ^^^ one :D |
| 17:11.28 | szopin | go for highscore |
| 17:11.40 | szopin | bonus points for hitting a satellite |
| 17:11.42 | RiD | i actually threw it, but it was on my bed |
| 17:11.48 | szopin | you will get a lock then for sure |
| 17:11.58 | RiD | that's how the gsm stopped working, usb failed and right speaker blew up |
| 17:12.03 | freemangordon | mashina: withaout A-GPS it takes a while for the lock to be acquired |
| 17:12.12 | freemangordon | *without |
| 17:12.13 | qwazix | wouldn't be sane to first try and run maemo on N950 before embarking in costly hardware adventures? |
| 17:12.14 | dos1 | RiD: there's something in it |
| 17:12.20 | RiD | dos1 hm? |
| 17:12.25 | freemangordon | qwazix: what for? |
| 17:12.27 | dos1 | RiD: I also was trowing my N900 on bed |
| 17:12.31 | dos1 | and now USB is broken |
| 17:12.34 | dos1 | ;) |
| 17:12.37 | RiD | haha |
| 17:12.39 | qwazix | same OMAP as the GTA04, no? |
| 17:12.41 | RiD | mine too, but everything else works |
| 17:12.43 | freemangordon | qwazix: no fmtx, uSD, etc |
| 17:12.49 | szopin | 3630 if it is same as n9 |
| 17:12.58 | RiD | i did blew up the right speaker (my own fault) and the earspeaker... well that one was not my fault. Don't know why it was broke |
| 17:13.01 | qwazix | freemangordon, just for making sure the thing will work reasonably well |
| 17:13.01 | RiD | blow* |
| 17:13.07 | RiD | but i replaced them |
| 17:13.13 | dos1 | qwazix: a bit better afaik |
| 17:13.15 | qwazix | if this succeeds, then by all means go on |
| 17:13.17 | freemangordon | qwazix: power management is different, as well as screen controller |
| 17:13.29 | RiD | anyone who wants a 2nd hand screen for n900, two white spots |
| 17:13.33 | freemangordon | and whatnot else |
| 17:13.41 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aacz89.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:14.06 | qwazix | freemangordon, :nod: |
| 17:14.15 | RiD | speaking of that, i have a dead n900 motherboard on my garage |
| 17:14.20 | szopin | 3730: dsp at 800mhz, nice |
| 17:14.32 | szopin | I wonder how high can one OC |
| 17:14.46 | RiD | i knew i was buying a broken n900, but he claimed that the body and etc was in good shape. Boy, the pic noise fooled me big time |
| 17:14.48 | freemangordon | szopin: not much, this is not the 60nm tech we have in n900 |
| 17:15.01 | RiD | the horror when i saw the touchscreen |
| 17:15.01 | dos1 | 3730 supports up to 4GB RAM |
| 17:15.01 | mashina | you people are cruel to your N900s |
| 17:15.13 | RiD | it was all peeling off |
| 17:15.16 | RiD | like dead skin |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#maemo Vlad_on_the_road (~Vlad_on_t@ip-66.net-82-216-1.versailles2.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 17:15.20 | freemangordon | mashina: naah, they just talk like that, trust me :) |
| 17:15.40 | szopin | fmg: ??? so is it a step forwards or backwards? |
| 17:16.07 | freemangordon | szopin: well, trake n9 for example, AFAIK, the max stable OC is about 1.2-1.3 GHz |
| 17:16.11 | freemangordon | *take |
| 17:16.23 | RiD | and for that to work they had to blow up a few N9s |
| 17:16.27 | dos1 | yup, OC potential will be lower |
| 17:16.29 | szopin | ouch... |
| 17:16.43 | freemangordon | szopin: you still don;t get it - it is not the CPU |
| 17:16.53 | mashina | *sarah mclaughlin music* Every day, neglected Internet Tablets are thrown and abused every day, left without necessities such as updates, internet, and proper care of USB ports. For as little as $120 every day, you can own and care for a forgotten NIT. |
| 17:17.10 | RiD | lmfao |
| 17:17.27 | freemangordon | n900 with its limited RAM but cssu-thumb on it goes circles around n950 in terms of speed |
| 17:17.29 | szopin | fmg: for some tasks it is, compilation time can be reduced by some 30+% by OC to 1150 |
| 17:17.41 | RiD | speaking of cssu-thumb, it hates rockbox. or vice versa |
| 17:17.48 | freemangordon | szopin: I am using my desktop to compile ;) |
| 17:17.54 | RiD | not that i can flash it anymore |
| 17:17.56 | qwazix | "see their batteries, swollen from the lack of power..." |
| 17:17.59 | RiD | looks at broken usb |
| 17:18.07 | RiD | well i can, but its a hassle |
| 17:18.11 | szopin | fmg: I'm looking forward to 1gb rootfs |
| 17:18.12 | freemangordon | RiD: hmm? WTF is rockbox? |
| 17:18.17 | RiD | a rock box |
| 17:18.28 | szopin | scratch scratchbox |
| 17:18.28 | RiD | i think it's the only player that supports gapless playback |
| 17:18.35 | freemangordon | oooh, a box full of rock? how sweet :) |
| 17:18.41 | RiD | maybe rhapsody also supports it too, dunno |
| 17:18.46 | freemangordon | and what is the problem? |
| 17:18.52 | qwazix | too heavy |
| 17:19.00 | RiD | qwazix rockbox? nah |
| 17:19.15 | qwazix | but it's full of rock :P |
| 17:19.27 | qwazix | (never tried it, just joking) |
| 17:19.58 | szopin | hmmmm.... if we had drivers for better components would it still be a nogo? |
| 17:20.22 | szopin | (I'm thinking about a little help from jolla?) |
| 17:20.31 | qwazix | (tegra 3, tegra 3) |
| 17:20.50 | RiD | fmg: if i pause music and then leave it paused for a while, resuming it crashes the app |
| 17:20.54 | *** join/#maemo qwerty123 (~root@117.98.104.55) |
| 17:20.55 | szopin | or is it about time spent on hacks/optimization? |
| 17:21.14 | dos1 | szopin: except drivers (an I don't mean just working drivers, I mean optimized drivers) there's also problem with quantity |
| 17:21.21 | szopin | oh wait, libhybris nvm |
| 17:21.22 | freemangordon | RiD: any chance to take a coredump? |
| 17:21.33 | RiD | eh |
| 17:21.41 | szopin | they will be using android drivers anyway |
| 17:22.12 | freemangordon | RiD: a backtrace - even better :) |
| 17:23.21 | RiD | you tell me how to do it and i'll be happy to provide it |
| 17:23.35 | RiD | or point me to a page that explains how to do it |
| 17:24.01 | szopin | install gdb |
| 17:24.14 | szopin | run the app with it and strace once crashed |
| 17:24.34 | RiD | is it as easy as installing it from the repos (if its in the repos)? |
| 17:24.43 | szopin | yup |
| 17:24.50 | RiD | sounds good |
| 17:24.51 | szopin | sudo apt-get gdb |
| 17:25.10 | dos1 | install gdb* |
| 17:25.16 | dos1 | ;) |
| 17:25.34 | RiD | oh fail |
| 17:25.43 | RiD | that'll have to wait, no battery ._. |
| 17:26.24 | *** join/#maemo NeutrinoPower (~neutrino@HSI-KBW-046-005-026-043.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:27.14 | szopin | so wait, N9's 3630 will cause problems with power management, how is 3730 going to avoid those? |
| 17:27.21 | szopin | already well done moko out there? |
| 17:27.27 | RiD | fmg: if interested in trying out rockbox, i recommend you to use http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89615&highlight=rockn900 to make it a little more finger friendly |
| 17:27.47 | dos1 | szopin: hmm? |
| 17:28.44 | qwazix | Any chance of fitting the N810 battery in Neo900? |
| 17:28.46 | szopin | someone said that N9's 3630 is going to cause power management issues |
| 17:28.49 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-37-209-40-177.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:28.54 | freemangordon | RiD: szopin: installing gdb itself is not enough, one needs debug symbols too |
| 17:29.01 | dos1 | szopin: not really |
| 17:29.19 | szopin | RiD: install rockbox-dbg |
| 17:29.25 | freemangordon | RiD: I'll install that app and check what happens once I have time |
| 17:29.43 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-o1e (~cyborg-on@130-0-41-233.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 17:29.57 | szopin | dos1: why 3730 then? |
| 17:29.58 | freemangordon | szopin: not only, he needs libc6-dbg too, and whoever knows what else to get a sane backtrace |
| 17:30.05 | RiD | if you do it this week i'll give you 1 cent |
| 17:30.24 | freemangordon | oh, I';ll do it next week then so you'll give me 2 :P |
| 17:30.25 | dos1 | szopin: it's not settled yet |
| 17:30.36 | RiD | :( |
| 17:30.46 | RiD | do it today and i'll give you a free game |
| 17:30.51 | RiD | for free |
| 17:30.53 | *** join/#maemo sq-one (~sq-one@p549A81C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:31.04 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05 listed 3730 in poll, so I assumed this is some "safe choice" we are able to make |
| 17:31.11 | szopin | do it tomorrow and you'll get a free game for 5$ |
| 17:31.13 | dos1 | but there might be some other options too |
| 17:31.29 | szopin | dos1: listening... |
| 17:32.09 | RiD | fmg: i'll be damned if the error does not happen to you |
| 17:32.20 | dos1 | (but probably not too much given our small production runs and reluctance to diversing too much from GTA04 and N900) |
| 17:32.55 | freemangordon | RiD: we'll see |
| 17:33.51 | *** join/#maemo onion (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 17:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, I#m just the hardware dude with a weird idea. And I know N900 binaries run on N9. Up to you (the fremantle porting task force) to evaluate if it's feasible |
| 17:35.39 | szopin | wouldn't call it weird |
| 17:35.54 | szopin | natural more like it |
| 17:36.24 | RiD | we're all natural after all |
| 17:36.31 | szopin | wish there were replacement n950's floating around |
| 17:36.33 | dos1 | this whole initiative (GTA04, and now Neo900) is unique in the world |
| 17:36.43 | dos1 | it might be a bit weird... but in very positive way :D |
| 17:37.08 | szopin | there was a guy who tried to upgrade ram, haven't heard for a while so prob fail |
| 17:37.11 | *** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:37.22 | RiD | i heard he jumped from a bridge |
| 17:37.33 | szopin | then there is freemantle and rebasing on top of debian |
| 17:37.35 | RiD | legend says the n900 broke a car |
| 17:37.53 | szopin | all looking to have a totally nokia free to put on some device |
| 17:38.31 | szopin | too bad G didn't open nexuses up |
| 17:38.58 | RiD | i would tolerate android if it wasn't that screwed |
| 17:39.13 | RiD | i usually play an icon guessing game to figure out what does what |
| 17:39.17 | RiD | and that back button, ugh |
| 17:39.46 | Win7Mac | put N9 HW in E7 case, make it run sailfisch + android app compatibility and I'm all in |
| 17:40.05 | RiD | hmh |
| 17:40.14 | RiD | how would sailfish look in landscape |
| 17:40.24 | szopin | sideways |
| 17:40.30 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: with capacitive screen? |
| 17:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, according to Jolla E7 formfactor is soooooo out |
| 17:40.36 | Win7Mac | amoled |
| 17:40.43 | RiD | lps |
| 17:40.46 | dos1 | Win7Mac: putting N9 hw in other case would mean that we need to manufacture N9 |
| 17:41.06 | RiD | what |
| 17:41.09 | Win7Mac | N9s are still available |
| 17:41.14 | dos1 | Win7Mac: and will small productions runs, price will be much higher |
| 17:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | really? |
| 17:41.19 | szopin | n9's are not that expensive |
| 17:41.34 | dos1 | Win7Mac: but how do you want to modify them to put somewhere else? |
| 17:41.54 | RiD | n9 is only 704,03 here |
| 17:41.57 | RiD | quite cheap if you ask me |
| 17:42.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I wonder how you want to make them boot |
| 17:42.09 | dos1 | Win7Mac: manually? |
| 17:42.15 | Win7Mac | no clue |
| 17:42.16 | RiD | and that's with discount already applied |
| 17:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis |
| 17:42.26 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 17:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask freemangordon about HS devices |
| 17:42.47 | Win7Mac | coderus has a fix for that |
| 17:42.53 | dos1 | Win7Mac: yeah. There's no "why not just take this phone from there / and put it there in this case?" |
| 17:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | a fix for HS? |
| 17:42.57 | Win7Mac | *for aegis |
| 17:43.04 | freemangordon | it is not the same |
| 17:43.09 | Win7Mac | HS? |
| 17:43.09 | dos1 | Win7Mac: we have to produce a board by ourselves |
| 17:43.19 | freemangordon | HighSecurity |
| 17:43.32 | dos1 | Win7Mac: but we don't have to produce a case, as we can for instance use N900's one |
| 17:43.44 | dos1 | that's what Neo900 is about |
| 17:43.57 | szopin | dos1: realistically though, how far can we go fremantle compatible in terms of cpu/ram/nand? |
| 17:44.19 | dos1 | szopin: cpu/ram/nand? Feature wise, 100%? |
| 17:44.25 | dos1 | power optimisation wide - no idea |
| 17:44.33 | dos1 | wise* |
| 17:44.37 | Win7Mac | just throwing in my wishful thinking: N900 is not for me, E7/N9 is |
| 17:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as it's OMAP3 I think we're fine with SoC PM |
| 17:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | peripherals are a whole new story |
| 17:45.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: there are slight differences afaik |
| 17:45.20 | RiD | hmh, what about fmtx, ir and all these little extras |
| 17:45.22 | freemangordon | but we can backport the stuff from the Harm kernel |
| 17:45.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: might be, we'll handle them in kernel |
| 17:45.43 | freemangordon | ooh, sure |
| 17:45.46 | szopin | dos1: dual-core seems out of reach |
| 17:46.11 | szopin | what are the best specs we could get and be still fremantle compatible? |
| 17:46.15 | freemangordon | szopin: seems we just can't afford it |
| 17:46.22 | szopin | I know |
| 17:46.26 | szopin | in theory |
| 17:46.34 | freemangordon | A15? |
| 17:46.47 | szopin | ? |
| 17:46.54 | szopin | it can be done? |
| 17:47.01 | szopin | no problems with power management? |
| 17:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we even have basically identical companion chip (GAYA TPS65951 vs 50) |
| 17:47.22 | LjL-Alps | you called it Neo900 now? |
| 17:47.23 | szopin | or does it include 5000bil$ to buy apple out? |
| 17:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is much more relevant for PM |
| 17:48.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is not that simple, IMO the upstream kernel is missing power domain control |
| 17:48.22 | *** join/#maemo joga (r2V4MPeD@rikki.fi) |
| 17:48.38 | freemangordon | or most of it |
| 17:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's why we use fremantle kernel (or even HARM kernel backported to 2.6.x ABI) |
| 17:48.46 | RiD | http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Nokia-N950-NO-reserve-price-/261267322289 |
| 17:48.50 | RiD | someone's a crazy nutfu_ |
| 17:49.40 | szopin | Just wondering what is the upper limit in fremantle compatible vs realistic possible. Seems different people have different priorities (ram/cpu/nand/IR/fmtx...) |
| 17:50.05 | szopin | so while there is enough enthusiasts to shell out 1000 euro on their dream device |
| 17:50.19 | szopin | everyone has a different dream |
| 17:50.42 | szopin | so just wondering if we could compare theoretical top vs cost of each upgrade |
| 17:51.03 | szopin | rpg game style, upgrade ram to 512 for 200$/XP |
| 17:51.42 | szopin | upgrade omap3 for... |
| 17:51.53 | szopin | etc... and get some feedback this way |
| 17:52.09 | szopin | 50 people who indicated they would buy it for 300 tells us nothing |
| 17:53.15 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 17:53.51 | szopin | so having 2 versions (say with batch of 200 and 500) with prices and poll like this would make more sense |
| 17:54.42 | szopin | omap3+512 - 600 euro (200), 700 euro (500), omap3 + 1gb 650 (200.... |
| 17:55.02 | szopin | ehh, prices wrong but the idea is clear i guess |
| 17:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | won't fly, we're happy if we can source complete BOM at all |
| 17:56.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | no headroom for fancy options |
| 17:56.53 | szopin | if we see 2/3 going for 1gb upgrade rather than omap4 and willing to shell extra 200 for it... |
| 17:57.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | also the difference in price is probably negligible |
| 17:57.32 | szopin | or the other way around, this is of course assuming there is wiggle space |
| 17:58.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's for sure negligible when it comes to "omap4 won't happen since that is a whole new design" and we simply have no choice on the OMAP3 SoC we can source |
| 17:59.29 | szopin | thanks, was looking for that answer even though previously some people said binary compatible/would like to see fremantle behaving on dual-core |
| 17:59.51 | RiD | damn |
| 17:59.54 | RiD | i've got the itch to buy another n900 |
| 18:00.05 | szopin | still had high hopes |
| 18:00.09 | szopin | so who said A15 is an option? |
| 18:00.29 | szopin | probably shuttleworth |
| 18:00.41 | RiD | ok wtf |
| 18:00.46 | RiD | http://olx-t.imgrap.com/ui/26/90/33/441038733_1x.jpg?x=1376907747 |
| 18:00.48 | RiD | booster n900 |
| 18:01.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, it's often like "hey in two months Apple builds a new batch, so ask us after that batch is finished if we maybe got a handful surplus SoC from that run for you" sth like 1000 SoC is usually nothing they serve you a cup of coffe when you come asking for such quantity |
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| 18:02.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | szopin: OMAP4 means *we* need to do a whole new Neo900 design, and that's completely out of discussion for now |
| 18:02.20 | RST38h | Doc: So, the desperation among the faithful has reached the SoC-swappingpoint? |
| 18:02.21 | szopin | ok, but batches of sammie s2 are no longer produced and they used omap4 |
| 18:02.28 | szopin | are these still out of reach? |
| 18:02.48 | szopin | doc: hw wise or driver/kernel wise? or both? |
| 18:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardware |
| 18:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and kernel of course too |
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| 18:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | please read http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/37/ - this is what we're going to use for Neo900 and we won't change much in all of that |
| 18:05.50 | RiD | what do you guys do when you got the itch to buy another n900? |
| 18:06.42 | dos1 | we start projects like Neo900 to justify it :) |
| 18:07.13 | szopin | how much? what state is it in? |
| 18:07.40 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, the only things that seem heavily outdated there is WLAN (g) and camera |
| 18:07.49 | szopin | doc: vga, optional fm transmitter... |
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| 18:08.12 | szopin | 1.3 cam |
| 18:09.56 | szopin | rs232? no usb? |
| 18:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | szopin: we can fix "minor" little issues like adding an fm transmitter or a bq27200 charge gas gauge, but we won't change the basic design, and OMAP4 for example would need a completely new design from scratch |
| 18:10.27 | dos1 | szopin: rs232 for debug; of course there's usb |
| 18:10.36 | dos1 | even with true OTG |
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| 18:10.42 | szopin | thx |
| 18:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | see page 9 please! |
| 18:11.01 | szopin | last time used rs in 1999 or some such |
| 18:11.47 | szopin | probably to play doom1 no less |
| 18:11.51 | szopin | fun times |
| 18:13.07 | szopin | btw, just curious, didn't components get smaller? |
| 18:13.22 | szopin | as in: there will be left some space for extras? |
| 18:13.43 | szopin | (wireless charging, though not fan of it myself, nfc or somesuch?) |
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| 18:14.10 | szopin | or are we buying same gen components and it will be full? |
| 18:14.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe when Nikolaus comes back from holiday tomorrow and we have a first look into thios whole thing, we find that the modem is too bulky to fit into the N900 case and we silently roll up the whole session |
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| 18:14.29 | szopin | :( |
| 18:14.47 | szopin | santa nikolaus will be dead |
| 18:15.43 | szopin | with jolla going n9 keyless it was the last moment to try to get those 1000 orders |
| 18:16.07 | szopin | (then again wayland, might be too soon to call it) |
| 18:16.59 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: why a non-free license? |
| 18:17.08 | szopin | OMAP3 with 1gb ram I believe still would be worth 550-600... |
| 18:17.20 | szopin | though 750 is an overkill |
| 18:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | because we have no money to give away |
| 18:17.48 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: not sure how prohibiting people from using it commercially helps with that |
| 18:18.10 | szopin | is there any other way than cpu to improve performance? |
| 18:18.22 | szopin | cache ddr666 ram or something? |
| 18:18.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: this is NOT a FOSS project |
| 18:18.42 | qwazix | the spec sheet says LED controller not tested |
| 18:18.53 | szopin | if we're stuck with omap3 getting those fastest with some benchmarks would help get support |
| 18:19.14 | szopin | people will like kengal whine for quad/dual core |
| 18:19.19 | szopin | (or me) |
| 18:19.42 | szopin | if we can get faster on ram side of things would be a good argument for extra euros |
| 18:20.00 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, mind elaborating on "This is not a FOSS project"? |
| 18:20.29 | szopin | gsm chip is open? |
| 18:21.03 | szopin | we're luckily not aiming at stallman phone |
| 18:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | how to elaborate? GolDeliCo invested a 5digit EUR and a two digit person-months into GTA04 |
| 18:21.37 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: lots of FOSS has far more invested |
| 18:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | we most likely give a F* |
| 18:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to do that, though |
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| 18:22.44 | RiD | freemangordon: HL3 has tit physics |
| 18:22.48 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, not why, what rights do the users will have. |
| 18:23.15 | Luke-Jr | qwazix: the PDF has a clear license |
| 18:23.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have the right to do with your property whatever you like |
| 18:23.35 | qwazix | Luke-Jr, thanks, I missed that |
| 18:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | you get quite comprehensive documentation about absolutely everything |
| 18:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you get usual warranty |
| 18:23.54 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: so the non-commercial clause only applies to the PCB information, not the usage of the product itself? |
| 18:23.56 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, sorry for the stupid question |
| 18:24.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | what clause? |
| 18:24.48 | Luke-Jr | the PDF states that commercial use is prohibited..? |
| 18:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the CC license is for the manual, not for the hardware |
| 18:25.06 | Luke-Jr | ah |
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| 18:25.45 | szopin | rid: titphysics is so hl3, we'll have tit-for-that-physics |
| 18:27.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what i'd guess |
| 18:27.36 | RiD | as if saints row purple jigglity wigglity weapon wasn't enough |
| 18:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | creative commons is about documents and other information goods, not about a piece of hardware usually |
| 18:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you have a printed book with CC then the license is about the book's info, not about the paper |
| 18:29.34 | Luke-Jr | oh, what kind of license would usually be used with hardware? O.o |
| 18:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Copyright? |
| 18:30.00 | Luke-Jr | Copyright is what empowers the license. :p |
| 18:30.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need a license to use an appliance |
| 18:30.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so frequently appliances and other hardware come with no special licence at all |
| 18:31.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus Copyright laws apply |
| 18:31.13 | qwazix | does that mean I can RE them and sell copies of them? |
| 18:31.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ |
| 18:31.29 | szopin | except when you try to reverse engineer/jailbreak |
| 18:31.32 | qwazix | :nod: |
| 18:31.50 | szopin | but afaik noone hunts homdemade hw RE |
| 18:32.27 | szopin | one other stupid thought i had... |
| 18:32.46 | szopin | elop, he cares not for fremantle/harmattan |
| 18:32.54 | szopin | so does current nokia |
| 18:33.04 | szopin | licensing fremantle to neo900 |
| 18:33.08 | szopin | would make sense |
| 18:33.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? |
| 18:33.27 | szopin | undercutting competition (jolla is a competition when you have 3 percent) |
| 18:33.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle is FOSS, except for a few blobs for which community got permission to re-use and redistribute |
| 18:33.55 | szopin | sure they dropped repo servers |
| 18:34.13 | szopin | oh ok, so those blobs are stopping omap4? |
| 18:34.17 | Luke-Jr | pfft, fremantle is like 40% FOSS IIRC; so basically non-free |
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| 18:34.36 | Luke-Jr | at least in terms of what actually is important |
| 18:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | pffft define "fremantle" |
| 18:34.50 | szopin | the idea was, get the source or license fremantle for something undercutting incoming xompetition |
| 18:35.01 | Luke-Jr | szopin: also, fremantle is obsolete. see harmattan |
| 18:35.03 | szopin | absurd |
| 18:35.10 | szopin | indeed |
| 18:35.17 | szopin | more power to them letting it go |
| 18:35.51 | szopin | hi mr elop, would you like to kill some jolla support? then give us fremangtle sources so we can go dual-core |
| 18:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should stop smoking that stuff ;-) |
| 18:36.25 | szopin | we have hwkb, geeks will go definitely with us |
| 18:36.26 | Luke-Jr | lol |
| 18:36.28 | szopin | :P |
| 18:36.34 | freemangordon | or you'd better share it :P |
| 18:36.37 | Luke-Jr | szopin: what has hw kb!⁈ |
| 18:36.50 | Luke-Jr | pounces |
| 18:36.53 | szopin | n900 |
| 18:37.11 | szopin | and N900 shell with new guts |
| 18:37.26 | Luke-Jr | I wonder if I can get new guts for N810 |
| 18:37.28 | Luke-Jr | it had a nicer kb |
| 18:38.00 | szopin | if he cares for wp8 and competition from linux other than android, helping fremantle geeks makes sense |
| 18:38.44 | qwazix | where would the keyboard be connected on GTA04? |
| 18:38.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | szopin: please stop it, won't happen, for reasons a bit too awkward to explain in full length here. Basically Nokia mustn't |
| 18:39.09 | szopin | I was thinking of PR backlash if nokia would come in and stop us from using fremantle in connection with new hw |
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| 18:39.32 | Luke-Jr | szopin: none? |
| 18:39.40 | szopin | they (and MS) care a LOT about PR |
| 18:39.49 | Luke-Jr | there would be zero bad PR for Nokia |
| 18:39.50 | szopin | ??? |
| 18:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | they basically CANNOT stop us from using fremantle however we like |
| 18:40.20 | szopin | Imagine theverge and all other blogs saying: nokia spiteful, stops hobbyists from using its abandonware |
| 18:40.44 | freemangordon | qwazix: hmm? where it is connected now? |
| 18:40.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, fremantle err maemo at large been donated to community |
| 18:40.56 | qwazix | freemangordon, no idea |
| 18:40.59 | szopin | wp som weak they're afraid of once their hackers (shout developers, developers some more retired steve) |
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| 18:41.32 | szopin | it would be a pr disaster |
| 18:41.33 | freemangordon | is looking at the schematics |
| 18:41.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 18:41.53 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, when/were did that donation happen? |
| 18:41.53 | dos1 | GTA04 right now doesn't have keyboard |
| 18:41.59 | qwazix | freemangordon, I'm just asking because the current GTA04 wasn't meant to be used with hwkb |
| 18:42.06 | dos1 | but I think there's some place you can connect one to |
| 18:42.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: basically when Nokia offered you guys the contract you maybe still haven't signed |
| 18:42.29 | qwazix | dos1, rs232? |
| 18:42.37 | Win7Mac | exactly |
| 18:42.42 | dos1 | as some additional keyboard boards for 3D printed cases were evaluated |
| 18:43.11 | Win7Mac | and AFAIK they won't |
| 18:43.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | but de facto it happened years ago when we got allowance to redistribute the blobs |
| 18:43.32 | szopin | doc: fremantle is now community owned? what about closed packages? they can redistribute binary, but no go on source? |
| 18:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | THEY?? **YOU** |
| 18:43.46 | Win7Mac | Nokia |
| 18:43.48 | qwazix | dos1, freemangordon, page 42 "There is room for a TCA8418 button keyboard controller option but it is not soldered." |
| 18:43.49 | Luke-Jr | if we don't have source, we don't have it. |
| 18:44.14 | *** join/#maemo frafl (~Thunderbi@e178076228.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:44.15 | dos1 | qwazix: yeah. but you can order one with it soldered |
| 18:44.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: please elaborate! |
| 18:44.25 | qwazix | dos1, cool |
| 18:44.48 | dos1 | (provided that there's enough demand to start new production batch at all) |
| 18:44.56 | qwazix | ofc |
| 18:44.57 | freemangordon | qwazix: well, I guess DocScrutinizer05 and dr. whoever-he-was and his team have some stuff to do |
| 18:45.26 | qwazix | yeah |
| 18:45.48 | Win7Mac | Woody: "The last I heard, Nokia was back pedaling on a hand over in favor of licening |
| 18:45.48 | Win7Mac | due to "a conflict on giving up some intelectual propery found in other |
| 18:45.48 | Win7Mac | software" (MeeGo?)." |
| 18:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: you shouldn't waste your time reviewing GTA04 schematics. I told you they get adapted to more closely meet N900 |
| 18:46.35 | Win7Mac | that was in response to the contract Rob drafted |
| 18:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | At least that's _my_ plan for now, dunno what nikolaus will say about it |
| 18:47.23 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: nothing can stop neo900 to be distributed/sold with only hildon-desktop, HAM and repos set up |
| 18:48.07 | qwazix | still thinks that maybe, if we find it hard to drum up support for N900 case Neo900, trying for E7 case might bring some additional support due to complete lack of proper QWERTY smartphones today. Even if it would be a little less perfect for maemo fans, (capacitive) it might bring outside backers and thus increase quantity (and maemo users) |
| 18:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: and that's going to stop community how? |
| 18:48.29 | szopin | droid 5 |
| 18:48.41 | Win7Mac | probably not at all |
| 18:49.13 | szopin | droid 5 is going to grab all that hwkb market saly |
| 18:49.17 | szopin | sadly* |
| 18:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have permission to redistribute blobs since early days of CSSU at least, if not longer |
| 18:49.24 | qwazix | szopin, Droid line has stopped being available this side of the pond since IIRC Droid 3, and all other qwerties are completely low end |
| 18:49.40 | szopin | droid 5 is coming |
| 18:49.48 | szopin | photo leaks are abound |
| 18:49.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Neo900 doesn't ship with an OS anyway |
| 18:49.56 | szopin | and specs are higher than middle |
| 18:50.04 | Win7Mac | ok, fine then go ahead, I won't buy but definetely support it |
| 18:50.11 | qwazix | droid 5 is verizon only, and probably no intl version will come, just like D4 |
| 18:51.00 | szopin | with jolla claiming they can their os on any hw in 24h... |
| 18:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | golDeliCo is not Nokia with a 2500 noses in sourcecode |
| 18:51.07 | szopin | put their os* |
| 18:51.34 | qwazix | szopin, you need an open bootloader to do that |
| 18:51.44 | qwazix | and droids so far haven't got one |
| 18:51.50 | szopin | though they claimed it before wayland, so not sure |
| 18:51.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | notices a grumpy feeling coming up, due to too many nagging from various sources during last few hours |
| 18:52.07 | dos1 | szopin: ask them to do that with Neo900 :) |
| 18:52.16 | qwazix | It's *with* wayland that it's easy. |
| 18:52.21 | szopin | moto wasn't google's for previous ones, no idea about nexus bootloaders though |
| 18:52.55 | dos1 | szopin: locked |
| 18:53.14 | szopin | qwazix: oh ok, they claimed the 24h boot time before wayland announcement, thought it would cause more headaches than not |
| 18:53.26 | dos1 | well, unlockable, but not replacable |
| 18:53.28 | szopin | docs: sorry |
| 18:53.53 | szopin | docs: just the idea is so awesome i got a lot of questions |
| 18:54.00 | LjL-Alps_ | what takes 24 hours to boot? O.o |
| 18:54.00 | qwazix | szopin, previous droids couldn't even get a new kernel |
| 18:54.14 | *** join/#maemo LjL-Alps (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 18:54.32 | szopin | qwazix: yeah, I've seen, even droid 3 on froyo |
| 18:54.36 | qwazix | LjL-Alps, putting sailfish on an arbitrary Android device |
| 18:55.11 | LjL-Alps | wow. |
| 18:55.23 | qwazix | Their claim |
| 18:55.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: sure, they re-use RIL |
| 18:56.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the GPU drivers as well aiui |
| 18:56.12 | qwazix | yep, that's what I understand too |
| 18:56.16 | szopin | hmmm... did anyone do comparisons in speed libhybris vs native though? |
| 18:56.44 | szopin | if it turns out 50% slowdown jolla is going to need octa cores just like android :/ |
| 18:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda of a chroot with sailfish in it running under android, just that you do a pivot-root then ;-D |
| 18:57.05 | *** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 18:57.11 | qwazix | szopin, no, but videos of nemo on lowend hardware seem quite snappy |
| 18:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | my wild guess |
| 18:57.49 | szopin | any 3d cube gl fps comparison? |
| 18:58.02 | szopin | this could kill jolla if performance is bogged down |
| 18:58.19 | szopin | they'll go in a race they cannot win |
| 19:00.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jolla dropped off my shelf of intriguing stuff when I learned about them using wayland |
| 19:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | "to allow full-HD video" LOLWUT?! |
| 19:00.47 | szopin | :( |
| 19:01.20 | szopin | same here, expecting a huge letdown when trying to compile things on device |
| 19:01.40 | szopin | of course in 3 years everything will be wayland... |
| 19:01.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | no tmy desktop |
| 19:01.53 | szopin | but then jolla is going to be lik n900 today |
| 19:02.06 | szopin | ok, one last thing... |
| 19:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I doubt xev will be obsoleted by wev then |
| 19:02.26 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, AIUI from here http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/04/21/how-to-use-libhybris-and-android-gpu-libraries-with-mer-linux-on-the-cubieboard/ there's no chroot |
| 19:02.42 | szopin | what about those 2-3 devices based on intel? |
| 19:02.44 | qwazix | just a folder with the android drivers |
| 19:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, not really |
| 19:02.58 | szopin | would that make it more likely for fremantle compatibility? |
| 19:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's how they base on all the android stuff I guess |
| 19:03.31 | szopin | all packages are in arm and 32 |
| 19:03.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | create enough of an android environment (kernel domain) to make the drivers work, then put a standard kernel undor/over/aside to this |
| 19:04.17 | qwazix | probably |
| 19:04.31 | szopin | (both in maemo and android) |
| 19:04.31 | szopin | would that help in any way? |
| 19:05.23 | szopin | with intel standard cpu bluez is an option |
| 19:05.23 | szopin | so the whole dalvik can go suck an ik |
| 19:05.39 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, what is it that you love about X? |
| 19:05.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels terribly exhausted, Probably all serotonin tanks are empty now after ~36h of euphoria |
| 19:05.52 | qwazix | because from what I read I can't wait for distros to switch to wayland |
| 19:06.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: the fact that there is a knowledge base, tools, and a zillion of apps basing on it |
| 19:06.25 | szopin | sure atom is not there yet, but anandtech was very positve about next gen intels |
| 19:06.32 | szopin | docscrutinizer: get two valiums and a gram of coke and euphoria will be back |
| 19:06.47 | qwazix | szopin, those few intel devices have powervr graphics |
| 19:07.10 | qwazix | i.e. no gpu drivers for linux |
| 19:07.10 | *** join/#maemo kwork (~georg@unaffiliated/kwork) |
| 19:07.10 | szopin | as n900 |
| 19:07.10 | qwazix | much newer |
| 19:07.18 | qwazix | I doubt the same driver would work |
| 19:07.32 | szopin | :( |
| 19:07.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: figure I want to make my 14 mouse buttons emit arbitrary keystroke macros under wayland |
| 19:07.53 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, :nod: |
| 19:07.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what about flash memory? are there any plans for internal flash besides onenand? |
| 19:08.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question, I dunno |
| 19:08.24 | szopin | 1 gb of nand and sd |
| 19:08.28 | szopin | no emmc |
| 19:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | in GTA04!!!! |
| 19:08.40 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: guess who asked about the camera :P |
| 19:09.04 | freemangordon | how expensive would be to add 16GB? any idea? |
| 19:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | some 20orso |
| 19:09.25 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, I don't know about that, but I hear multiscreen finally works! |
| 19:09.30 | szopin | gta04 on the page you linked in first post has 512/512/1gb |
| 19:09.40 | qwazix | because under X I've got all kinds of problems... |
| 19:09.42 | freemangordon | oh, make them 32 then :D |
| 19:09.45 | szopin | probably a formatting nug |
| 19:09.51 | szopin | bug* |
| 19:09.59 | ShadowJK | Would be cool with a modern emmc too |
| 19:10.09 | ShadowJK | even if it'd "still" be 32g |
| 19:10.24 | szopin | get a new sdhc card and it will be faster |
| 19:10.30 | szopin | for sequential reads at least |
| 19:10.33 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: with a slot for uSD even 16 would be just fine |
| 19:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | szopin: goldelico was able to eventually source a better SoC with 1GB of NAND |
| 19:10.49 | szopin | (700mb from emmc copy >> from sdhc) |
| 19:10.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | first GTA04 had 512MB |
| 19:11.04 | szopin | in time, new sd are faster |
| 19:11.06 | ShadowJK | szopin; yeah I mean there are emmcs now that are better suited for multitasking operarting systems :) |
| 19:11.34 | freemangordon | I guess no UHS, ain't? |
| 19:11.52 | szopin | shadow: sure, but N900 emmc sucks |
| 19:11.59 | freemangordon | szopin: what?!? |
| 19:12.02 | szopin | haven't made full benchmarks but new sammie sd gets good speeds even on random readwrites |
| 19:12.11 | freemangordon | you have no clue, really |
| 19:12.31 | ShadowJK | N900 emmc is like a very fast SD at its time |
| 19:12.43 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B4960B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:12.44 | szopin | fmg: was testing copying some random movie, from my 32gb card was some 15% faster than emmc |
| 19:12.48 | freemangordon | szopin: I have one of those, it is still slightly slower than emmc |
| 19:13.17 | szopin | no idea why, but here my card was faster |
| 19:13.27 | ShadowJK | The thing about 2008-2009 era sd/emmc, is that they don't tolerate random writes at all |
| 19:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | emmc is 8bit interface, sd is 4 bit, no? |
| 19:13.34 | freemangordon | szopin: what benchmark? connected via mass storage to the pc? |
| 19:13.42 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: :nod: |
| 19:13.43 | qwazix | szopin, because you were doing sequential read |
| 19:13.45 | szopin | it's a card that gets >100kb/s on random readwrites though |
| 19:13.51 | szopin | usb to pc |
| 19:13.51 | ShadowJK | Whereas some chips today will have a small write cache to deal with it |
| 19:13.56 | szopin | just copy file over |
| 19:14.33 | ShadowJK | It's practically "impossible" to get exclusive access to the emmc for proper benchmarking |
| 19:14.45 | ShadowJK | whereas nothing uses the uSD at all normally |
| 19:14.57 | szopin | was "researching" for a couple of days, the 10MBit is only when writing on empty card |
| 19:15.03 | ShadowJK | So usb to pc and similar tests aren't fair |
| 19:15.03 | *** join/#maemo GhostRiderV2 (Ghost@bl22-21-125.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 19:15.14 | qwazix | ShadowJK, isn't emmc accessible in ACT_DEAD? |
| 19:15.22 | szopin | but on copying a dir with 500+ files it was also giving me better perf |
| 19:15.27 | qwazix | that wouldn't be almost exclusive? |
| 19:15.46 | ShadowJK | If swap is on, or /home mounted, it's not |
| 19:15.50 | dos1 | I think one could run some alternative OS like SHR from SD |
| 19:16.09 | freemangordon | dos1: on n900? |
| 19:16.11 | szopin | sure, but use case trumps it... but wait also booting ubuntu was a breeze |
| 19:16.15 | ShadowJK | Small files perf would be better on a good modern card, obviously |
| 19:16.22 | dos1 | freemangordon: yup |
| 19:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: could you try to push for a vote of a council majority on donating a device to Nikolaus? |
| 19:16.36 | szopin | while others were claimin it takes ages |
| 19:16.41 | freemangordon | dos1: I think I still kepp ubuntu 12.04 image somewhere ;) |
| 19:16.46 | freemangordon | *keep |
| 19:16.55 | qwazix | I don't know how ACT_DEAD deals with swap and /home, I just remember plugging the N900 to pc while off and having mass storage access. |
| 19:16.55 | szopin | new sd cards can really stomp on old ones in terms of speed |
| 19:17.04 | ShadowJK | Anyway, this was my original point, that it would be nice to have a modern emmc, with the logstructured slc write cache, and trim support. |
| 19:17.09 | freemangordon | qwazix: this was disabled in PR1.2 |
| 19:17.20 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 19:17.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | check runlevels |
| 19:17.35 | szopin | and compression on rootfs |
| 19:17.35 | freemangordon | for security reasons, as you're not asked for lock code |
| 19:17.36 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, if I count as council majority you have it right now. Otherwise there's little I can do. Meetings haven't been really productive lately |
| 19:17.53 | ShadowJK | rootfs isn't on emmc |
| 19:17.53 | qwazix | freemangordon, rly? That's how often I use mass storage :P |
| 19:17.57 | szopin | (it's a sucky compression btw, just checked my 198mb re in fact 320) |
| 19:18.17 | ShadowJK | Probably lzop |
| 19:18.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: well, we need one more vote aiui |
| 19:18.30 | freemangordon | szopin: and this is the rest of the storry, the start being the swap ;) |
| 19:18.32 | szopin | 1gb should be enough |
| 19:18.53 | szopin | fmg: we could uncompress rootfs? |
| 19:19.01 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: fwiw, i am +1 on donating the device too... |
| 19:19.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we're done. Thanks |
| 19:19.16 | freemangordon | szopin: that is why I insist A8 even running on 600 MHz is just fine |
| 19:19.19 | thedead1440 | btw haven't been this curious in a long time :) |
| 19:19.28 | freemangordon | szopin: sure we can |
| 19:19.29 | szopin | sorry, yoda placement |
| 19:19.29 | szopin | could we?* |
| 19:19.43 | szopin | how? |
| 19:19.47 | freemangordon | if we have enough rootfs scpce |
| 19:20.10 | szopin | on current N900? |
| 19:20.20 | qwazix | freemangordon, do we really need rootfs? Harmattan seems to go along fine while installed in emmc |
| 19:20.21 | Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, can't you just send him 1 of your 5 devices as a loan? |
| 19:20.22 | freemangordon | can't remember exactly, see cssu-thumb thread |
| 19:20.24 | szopin | optifying as much as we... oh fukc it, opt is slower |
| 19:20.34 | freemangordon | szopin: no, it is not |
| 19:20.42 | szopin | ??? |
| 19:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't loan devices to get them disassembled |
| 19:20.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also don't loan my GF |
| 19:20.57 | szopin | I can loan one |
| 19:21.05 | szopin | if I get neo900 in return sure |
| 19:21.09 | freemangordon | opt is not slower than rootfs, at least not much |
| 19:21.13 | Win7Mac | I (as treasurer) feel kind of hijacked by GTA project |
| 19:21.26 | thedead1440 | Win7Mac: what do you mean? |
| 19:21.27 | szopin | than you claim emmc not so slower than nand |
| 19:21.40 | freemangordon | Win7Mac: what? |
| 19:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: I however would forward one of my devices to him and get a replacement for my shelf later |
| 19:21.50 | szopin | or rather emmcc not so much slower than nand iqith sucky compression |
| 19:22.06 | szopin | with* |
| 19:22.08 | Win7Mac | i will not stand in the way of aany majority |
| 19:22.14 | ShadowJK | I wouldn't want rootfs on emmc, atleast not if the emmc is as primitive as the one in n900. Writes from things like fennec can keep emmc busy for 10s of seconds at a time, during which read access to /opt suffers 1000+ ms latencies :) |
| 19:22.21 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: so you'll send him your GF to get new one later? ;) |
| 19:22.32 | freemangordon | :D |
| 19:22.42 | freemangordon | this is the community spirit :P |
| 19:22.45 | qwazix | Nokia thought NAND was so much better that they developed a whole new filesystem for it, but then ditched it in the next gen. |
| 19:22.55 | szopin | this is a ram problem is a big way, try copying 250mb+ file |
| 19:22.59 | szopin | in* |
| 19:23.07 | SpeedEvil | qwazix: they're right. |
| 19:23.08 | ShadowJK | The availability of nand got worse |
| 19:23.10 | Win7Mac | cool project, definetely deserves HiFo support! just not sure about the donations |
| 19:23.15 | szopin | after ram available n900 slows to a halt |
| 19:23.18 | SpeedEvil | qwazix: the problem is that nobody sells 32gb nand |
| 19:23.24 | freemangordon | qwazix: if we run NAND uncompressed it will be much better IMO |
| 19:23.33 | SpeedEvil | 32gigabyte |
| 19:23.33 | qwazix | the N9 also has NAND which is unused IIRC |
| 19:23.56 | thedead1440 | Win7Mac: one device is not a big deal considering the amount rob was considering wasting for $random solutions when deciding on hosting and not much of a fuss being made at that time |
| 19:24.02 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: what about using NAND as swap? |
| 19:24.23 | ShadowJK | szopin; well it starts using swap, which when mixed in with the copy slows things down alot. In general the emmc slows down to like 100kB/sec if subjected to more than a few sequential streams, or a single random write stream |
| 19:24.24 | freemangordon | for how long will it last? |
| 19:24.31 | qwazix | freemangordon, I'm not exactly sure, but I was talking with a guy that was in the team that designed that thing, and he said that ubifs was needed for some reason |
| 19:24.56 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; with rolling sequential write access, years |
| 19:24.57 | qwazix | (no hardware wear-levelling or something) |
| 19:25.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: I will inform Nikolaus, so he can remember when it's coming to handing out Neo900 prototypes |
| 19:25.15 | ShadowJK | That's true for the onenand |
| 19:25.27 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: so, we can stay with 512 RAM, swap on NAND and root on eMMC, right? |
| 19:25.42 | ShadowJK | No possibility of 1G? |
| 19:25.51 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: iiuc |
| 19:25.58 | Win7Mac | Doc, that's what I'm talking about: exchange a set, you'll be 1st tester anyway... |
| 19:26.01 | ShadowJK | aw :( |
| 19:26.04 | freemangordon | but I guess it is still to be decided |
| 19:26.13 | ShadowJK | If it's a good emmc |
| 19:26.17 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 19:26.35 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I am trying to count all the sane possibilities |
| 19:26.39 | ShadowJK | But unless you're buying 100kunits, they wont tell you anything about it except its capacity |
| 19:27.24 | *** join/#maemo SAiF (75c48556@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.196.133.86) |
| 19:27.28 | Win7Mac | It's just that I'd be happier if we could handle this without donATIONS: but as i said, i won't hinder anything |
| 19:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: that's not how i work. I know my folks and have good relations to them |
| 19:28.08 | Win7Mac | yeah, me too ;) |
| 19:28.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth board never wrapped their head around, when it came to moving server to IPHH for example |
| 19:28.13 | ShadowJK | is this donation of a device from "maemo" to "openmoko"? |
| 19:28.16 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01 (user@gateway/shell/gnu/x-whbxttbylgliwhch) |
| 19:28.35 | qwazix | If sd's can be almost as fast as emmc, why not use the space and just go dual-sd? |
| 19:28.48 | qwazix | one could even be soldered on |
| 19:29.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and on a sidenote: board is not up to decide about donations, unless they are obviously rogue or abusive |
| 19:29.17 | freemangordon | qwazix: no need for dual uSD, given the capacity of the modern cards |
| 19:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it council to decide |
| 19:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ot's* |
| 19:29.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn |
| 19:29.35 | ShadowJK | I'd like dual |
| 19:29.37 | dos1 | ShadowJK: "Maemo community donates N900 device to Openmoko community", tomorrow on /. |
| 19:29.42 | qwazix | freemangordon, there is. Swappability |
| 19:29.46 | ShadowJK | just to partition off the abusive apps |
| 19:30.00 | freemangordon | oh, I see |
| 19:30.05 | ShadowJK | (fennec, gpodder's sql databases, etc...) |
| 19:30.10 | szopin | I can donate N900 and I'm sure alot otherpeople can |
| 19:30.12 | freemangordon | yeah, got it |
| 19:30.17 | szopin | there was an offer already in the thread |
| 19:30.33 | Win7Mac | ok, before this gets ridiculous: I'll happily sign the check if needed |
| 19:30.40 | ShadowJK | I was just wondering what the treasurer talk was about |
| 19:30.46 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01 (user@fsf/staff/johnsu01) |
| 19:30.49 | szopin | Just wondering why it is easier*/faster for me to copy a 700mb file from sd than emmc |
| 19:30.53 | Win7Mac | but please don't blame me for looking after *our* money |
| 19:30.56 | szopin | they do"mt get fragmented, so why? |
| 19:31.30 | ShadowJK | szopin; because the emmc gets interrupted by write activity |
| 19:31.39 | ShadowJK | /home and swap |
| 19:31.44 | RiD | stupd net |
| 19:32.15 | szopin | shadow: same conditions, no aptget in background, copy movie fromemmc takes longer than from sd |
| 19:32.34 | ShadowJK | If you move swap to uSD, and read from or write to emmc, you get pretty nice speeds. |
| 19:32.36 | szopin | no write activity afaik on borth |
| 19:32.44 | freemangordon | szopin: there is always somethin touching the emmc |
| 19:32.53 | dos1 | szopin: swapoff -a |
| 19:32.56 | szopin | in that 5 minutes? |
| 19:33.20 | ShadowJK | swapoff works as long as no apps needing anything from /opt are active |
| 19:33.34 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: also, I m not sure vfat on emmc doesn;t suffer from fragmentation :) |
| 19:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 19:33.41 | *** join/#maemo thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 19:33.46 | szopin | it does |
| 19:33.51 | szopin | it's fat |
| 19:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | how is swapoff related to /opt? |
| 19:33.56 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; yeah but it's not as evil as ext3 on emmc |
| 19:34.12 | szopin | my sd is ext3 btw |
| 19:34.19 | szopin | so maybe here is speed? |
| 19:34.21 | freemangordon | oooh |
| 19:34.22 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; as a means to prevent IO to emmc |
| 19:34.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still don't see it |
| 19:35.05 | ShadowJK | vfat is like 3-4 times less computational load for emmc/sd |
| 19:35.21 | szopin | shouldn't impact opt... need gto check read/write opt svs sd |
| 19:35.32 | szopin | vs |
| 19:35.42 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: but it is vfat, so most probably it is fragmented all over the place |
| 19:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | to get issues with /opt you need to unmount or otherwise block the partitoon where /opt lives. Unrelated to swap which is a whole different partition |
| 19:36.25 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; not too badly, I've checked from time to time as I often run at 99percent use on MyDocs... |
| 19:36.54 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; linux seems to allocate stuff slightly smarter than win9x back in the day |
| 19:36.59 | szopin | the one thing that totally sells me to neo900 is: we can fix the bad ideas nokians had (256mb of rootfs etc) |
| 19:37.35 | *** join/#maemo SAiF_ (75c48556@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.196.133.86) |
| 19:37.39 | freemangordon | szopin: I still think it was decided that way because nokians were planning to use thumb2 |
| 19:38.03 | ShadowJK | szopin; me on the other hand like having as many storage devices as possible so the load can be spread out :) |
| 19:38.05 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 19:38.09 | szopin | ok, I admit I didn't have time yet to try thumb cssu |
| 19:38.59 | ShadowJK | My Asus android tablet is, when loading webpages, limited by emmc I/O more than half the time. All 4 cores idle waiting for IO.. |
| 19:39.20 | freemangordon | szopin: it shaves about 35MB of executable code, while only about 5% of the code is recompiled |
| 19:39.30 | *** join/#maemo GhostRiderV2 (Ghost@bl22-21-125.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 19:39.31 | ShadowJK | It's the biggest bottleneck on almost all current smartphones really. |
| 19:39.34 | szopin | this might sell me to omap3 with "just" ram increaase |
| 19:40.02 | szopin | fmg: 35mb free rootfs you mean? |
| 19:40.03 | freemangordon | I admit most of that is QT, but still, imagine if everything was thumb2-compiled |
| 19:40.19 | freemangordon | 35MB down I mean, Qt is on /opt |
| 19:41.12 | szopin | we need elop |
| 19:41.29 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: wait, doesn;t kernel cache the stuff? |
| 19:41.34 | trx | lol |
| 19:41.37 | szopin | to drop all maemo ownership and give us code, thumb2 all that |
| 19:41.46 | qwazix | freemangordon, what makes you think they were planning to use thumb? modest bug? |
| 19:42.03 | freemangordon | qwazix: no, the size of RAM/onenand |
| 19:42.20 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B4960B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:42.24 | szopin | lol, those are time limitations, remind yourself about 2009 |
| 19:42.35 | szopin | and imagine us discussing octa cores |
| 19:42.37 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; fsync and fflush is the great killer.. databases loves to use those.. and everything uses databases these days. |
| 19:42.48 | freemangordon | and they hit the omap bug too late to change anything but the compiler flags |
| 19:43.02 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: hmm, yeah, makes sense |
| 19:43.21 | qwazix | freemangordon, possible, and they forgot to change it for modest (or was it tinymail?) |
| 19:43.34 | freemangordon | qwazix: no, it was MohammadAG :D |
| 19:43.58 | qwazix | really? I thought that modest was crashing since PR1.0 |
| 19:44.08 | freemangordon | qwazix: no |
| 19:44.09 | qwazix | In fact I was pretty sure about that |
| 19:44.21 | qwazix | You're probably right |
| 19:44.32 | freemangordon | the only thig that is thumb-compiled is facebook-something, and it is in OVI store |
| 19:44.40 | ShadowJK | that's one piece of sw that's never crashed on me |
| 19:44.52 | szopin | modest? |
| 19:44.59 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: you don;t have it installed? |
| 19:45.12 | qwazix | That couldn't be it, my only interaction with facebook-something was uninstalling the launcher |
| 19:45.17 | ShadowJK | I use it daily |
| 19:45.24 | *** join/#maemo tom____ (~tom@66.172.11.27) |
| 19:45.47 | qwazix | wonders why people bash modest so angrily |
| 19:46.04 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: do readelf -A on /opt/.../libfacebook-something.so |
| 19:46.20 | ShadowJK | I meant modest |
| 19:46.24 | freemangordon | ooh |
| 19:46.28 | szopin | gmail stopped working, whether it's tinymail bug or modest, who cares, modest sucks |
| 19:46.50 | thedead1440 | qwazix: because the very moment you require it urgently, it will hang up on you at that time; just like fennix ;) |
| 19:46.52 | qwazix | I find it much better than those thin crap clients that only search through the last 30 mails on modern smartphones |
| 19:47.10 | freemangordon | qwazix: mag compiled it by mistake with -mthumb in one of the cssu versions, as Maemo SDK VM comes with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=...,thumb,... by default |
| 19:47.28 | freemangordon | szopin: fized in CSSU ;) |
| 19:47.33 | freemangordon | fixed even |
| 19:47.35 | qwazix | thedead1440, I have fallen back to modest after fenix crashed on me countless times and it never failed me, just a bit slow |
| 19:47.59 | RiD | there's a modest alternative?! |
| 19:48.13 | RiD | honestly modest only crashed on me once, other times its just a bit slow like qwazix says |
| 19:48.21 | szopin | fmg: I know, my daily handset is CSUU broken somehow so I'm few releases backwards, works fine on the other |
| 19:48.41 | thedead1440 | ya that slow part; when you really need that email, modest will take forever to load. nearly threw my n900 in a fit of anger once due to this reason :) |
| 19:48.59 | ShadowJK | images load slow for me |
| 19:49.18 | RiD | microb is terrible on big images |
| 19:49.40 | SAiF | i dont think so |
| 19:50.01 | RiD | open something 1920x1080 or bigger |
| 19:50.07 | RiD | it will die and beg you to stop |
| 19:50.17 | RiD | black 5kb image does not count |
| 19:50.20 | freemangordon | RiD: it is the lack of RAM that makes it slow ;) |
| 19:50.22 | qwazix | RiD, "microb reboots the phone at big images" <-- there I fixed it |
| 19:50.31 | RiD | ehh sorry it does not reboot my phone |
| 19:50.33 | szopin | nah 4000x... is a pain |
| 19:50.41 | RiD | szopin opera handles it a little better |
| 19:50.47 | szopin | 1920x works quite alright (805mhz at least) |
| 19:50.48 | ShadowJK | The limit is more at 3000x... for me |
| 19:50.52 | RiD | though if you abuse it, it'll eventually crash or slow down like a turtle |
| 19:51.00 | ShadowJK | 1920 is trivial |
| 19:51.03 | RiD | szopin maybe you are right |
| 19:51.09 | ShadowJK | I open that on N800 |
| 19:51.14 | RiD | still, even at these images sometimes zooming on them etc is a bit screwed |
| 19:51.15 | ShadowJK | (that wasnt a typo) |
| 19:51.33 | RiD | it takes a long time to redraw the image |
| 19:51.49 | RiD | not long as in 30 seconds but you know :( |
| 19:51.54 | szopin | yeah, there is a looot that could be fixed in microb |
| 19:52.13 | szopin | lower part of the page reappearing for few multiseconds when scrolling down |
| 19:52.19 | RiD | i switch from opera and microb all day |
| 19:52.25 | szopin | this is so annoying |
| 19:52.40 | szopin | but... even neo900 won't fix it |
| 19:52.51 | RiD | something with big images, opera. Or something with heavy scripts, opera also tends to be the winner. On the other side, microb just feels better and more friendly |
| 19:53.14 | RiD | browsing the forums for example is uncomfortable on opera, but fine on microb |
| 19:53.17 | szopin | mouse mode trumps all |
| 19:53.24 | szopin | I so wish they opened this |
| 19:53.34 | szopin | tmo works great |
| 19:53.44 | szopin | openpandora forums... oh jeez |
| 19:54.00 | RiD | IPB |
| 19:54.02 | RiD | meh, me dislike |
| 19:54.32 | szopin | reddit with all the time: stop script/wait... |
| 19:55.08 | szopin | there's a lot of room for improvement, sadly with mouse mode closed we're pretty much stuck |
| 19:55.43 | szopin | and it works flash so nicely.... one of the reasons I'm looking for fremanlte |
| 19:56.11 | RiD | i remember when flash was a "punch" line to sell android |
| 19:56.16 | RiD | no longer supported... |
| 19:56.21 | RiD | (officially) |
| 19:56.49 | szopin | well even desktop linux is closed for flash... |
| 19:56.54 | *** join/#maemo SAiF0 (75c487c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.196.135.194) |
| 19:58.39 | SAiF0 | an opencl webpage, will it open on n900 http://yase.chnk.us/ |
| 19:59.47 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:00.03 | RiD | oh my gosh 3d effects |
| 20:00.06 | RiD | this is the future of the web |
| 20:00.15 | RiD | 3D moving and tilting text |
| 20:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I call it a day |
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| 20:02.42 | szopin | gn |
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| 20:05.45 | *** part/#maemo obironbo (~chatzilla@tn-76-7-165-130.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:06.19 | thedead1440 | o/ see ya doc |
| 20:06.51 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 20:07.52 | szopin | wb |
| 20:13.53 | szopin | where is bootloader defined? |
| 20:13.58 | szopin | (as in closed vs open) |
| 20:14.00 | *** join/#maemo zeq (~s_j_newbu@2a01:348:1e3::ad2) |
| 20:14.23 | szopin | just noticed galaxy A has same cpu/gpu but Qgb ram |
| 20:14.27 | szopin | 1* |
| 20:15.15 | szopin | if same board is still in prod we could have step 1: galaxy A, same old shit, just 1gb ram |
| 20:15.22 | szopin | vs 3730+ |
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| 20:54.15 | _ade_ | freemangordon: any clue on this (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369536&postcount=111)? |
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| 21:07.22 | raccoon_ | anyone has a rough approx on how much faster you'll drain your battery when overclocking? |
| 21:07.49 | raccoon_ | is it crazy to assume a linear factor equal to the frequency increase? :-P |
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| 21:12.10 | RiD | yep its crazy |
| 21:12.14 | RiD | because of the voltages |
| 21:12.37 | RiD | sure the battery will drain quicker, but keep in mind the n900 does not stay at the maximum frequency all time |
| 21:12.53 | RiD | f.e. background music it can stay at 250mhz |
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| 21:26.26 | szopin | re |
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| 21:42.37 | raccoon_ | RiD: roger that |
| 21:44.50 | RiD | affirmative |
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