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| 04:49.56 | DrCode | is it possible to tell skype/gtalk and other chat to use proxy? |
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| 05:29.06 | Macer | wow |
| 05:29.18 | Macer | there has to be something seriously wrong with microb |
| 05:29.24 | Macer | this topping out isnt normal |
| 05:34.09 | Apic | A wonderful good Morning (UGT) |
| 05:35.30 | brolin_empey | !ugt |
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| 06:15.49 | Macer | well |
| 06:15.57 | Macer | need to figure out how to make marble useful |
| 06:16.09 | Macer | wish there was nokia drive for n900 :-/ |
| 06:23.04 | Macer | maybe i will just try monav |
| 06:23.27 | Macer | the tutorial for marble shows a dir that doesnt even exist for audio instructions |
| 06:25.37 | Macer | ugh. the app manager is suxh a pain |
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| 06:47.51 | SAiF | whats wrong with microb? whats toping out??? |
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| 07:01.10 | Macer | seems to max cpu all the time |
| 07:01.16 | Macer | even on simple pages |
| 07:01.38 | Macer | ah well. i am working on modrana now |
| 07:01.51 | Macer | i need a nav app with voice turns that doesnt completely suck |
| 07:02.28 | Macer | modrana seems like the best candidate but unfortunately i'm not driving to figure it out heh |
| 07:03.06 | Macer | and i want to get the ios theme. the default theme is incredibly ugly |
| 07:03.20 | Macer | i'd love nokia drive on my n900. driving with my e7 is a dream |
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| 07:05.48 | Macer | guess the ios theme is in devel :-/ |
| 07:06.06 | SAiF | I agree default theme is ugly, but I would like something cool and lite. |
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| 07:12.00 | Macer | well. the theme didnt seem to work anyways |
| 07:12.06 | Macer | not sure how to use it |
| 07:13.34 | Macer | figured i just install it |
| 07:13.40 | Macer | and use it in the config |
| 07:13.47 | Macer | but all i get is default and night |
| 07:24.23 | LauRoman | MicroB is not the only app to top out the cpu, it's just the way the Cortex A8 in the 900 works. It's rather old, and not that efficient, or more so gtk, qt and xul are not extremly efficient on it. |
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| 07:28.48 | sanova | hi, why claws-mail is not present in new repositories? is it too unstable? |
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| 07:44.16 | Macer | LauRoman: yeah i understand that i just dont remember it being this problematic |
| 07:44.45 | Iridos | trying to do one of the battery full-charge->discharge cycle from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=846 ... just to see how much of the battery is still left after the 1-2 years I use it |
| 07:44.49 | Iridos | exciting :P |
| 07:45.39 | Iridos | I mean... actually it's not/should not be exciting, but the constant warnings that the battery is empty and the count-down thingy trigger all excitement-reflexes |
| 07:46.55 | Macer | wth |
| 07:47.04 | Macer | how do i use this modrana theme heh |
| 07:47.11 | Macer | i still only get night and default |
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| 08:04.10 | Macer | how do i extract a .deb with dpkg? |
| 08:04.21 | Macer | i want to see what files this ios theme has |
| 08:04.28 | Macer | it has to be installing the pkg wrong |
| 08:05.07 | Macer | oh nm |
| 08:05.07 | Macer | -x |
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| 08:14.36 | Iridos | Mac3, it's an ar archive with a couple of tar.gz's in it. ar -x some.deb |
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| 08:16.20 | Iridos | hm, didn't know dpkg has an option now to just unpack |
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| 08:24.22 | LauRoman | is there a way to auto start a python script when i use 3g or wif or when i start a certain app? or should i just run it on startup? |
| 08:25.17 | Macer | i found it |
| 08:25.27 | Macer | although i dont see what the "theme" does |
| 08:25.39 | Macer | seems like it is just an icon pack |
| 08:26.02 | Macer | i need to test modrana out some more |
| 08:26.15 | Macer | but from what i can tell trying to pick a pio and drive to it |
| 08:26.24 | Macer | i keep getting no routing data found errors |
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| 08:30.57 | Macer | ah ok i got it |
| 08:31.07 | Macer | seems like i dont have any monav routing data |
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| 08:33.47 | Macer | guess i have to download all the US data lol |
| 08:34.23 | Macer | i will work on that later... but i managed to get modrana to give me voice instructions somewhere |
| 08:34.32 | Macer | the voice sucks tho heh |
| 08:39.29 | Macer | wth |
| 08:39.34 | Macer | hm. odd. |
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| 09:00.12 | jdoles | How much bandwidth do you need to call via Skype or VoIP and is that even practical? I have used local wifi once with Skype and I thought it was terrible, latency wise. |
| 09:01.31 | Macer | heh |
| 09:01.42 | Macer | i have an awesome business class cm |
| 09:01.55 | Macer | with wireless phones using a base wired up |
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| 09:02.00 | Macer | and it is still latent |
| 09:02.16 | Macer | it has to go through prism first i suppose |
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| 09:11.56 | DrCode | hi all |
| 09:11.56 | DrCode | I want to make playlist for player |
| 09:12.07 | DrCode | can I make playlist file in my linux and copy it to maemo? |
| 09:14.07 | jdoles | Macer: Skype via a wired (ethernet) connection does run fast and is even better than a normal landline, because of the greater bandwidth. |
| 09:14.19 | Apic | Good Question. Might the Mediaplayer be Part of the Closed-Source-Blob? |
| 09:17.23 | DrCode | ok |
| 09:17.33 | DrCode | I think I found somthing |
| 09:17.38 | Apic | Good |
| 09:20.17 | MrPingu | The mediaplayer is closed, thats why we have OMP ;) |
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| 09:22.02 | Apic | ktnx |
| 09:22.17 | Apic | It has weird Glitches |
| 09:36.16 | Apic | Where can I find OMP? |
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| 11:22.25 | sixwheeledbeast | ~omp |
| 11:22.25 | infobot | it has been said that omp is Open Media Player |
| 11:22.25 | sixwheeledbeast | infobot: omp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 |
| 11:22.25 | infobot | sixwheeledbeast: okay |
| 11:24.48 | sixwheeledbeast | does anybody use the "My Location" in the "My availability" section of IM for N900? Just wondering what information it broadcasts and where it's shown on other devices. |
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| 11:47.10 | Apic | sixwheeledbeast: Thanks |
| 11:52.24 | sixwheeledbeast | Apic: np |
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| 13:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~omp |
| 13:24.32 | infobot | rumour has it, omp is Open Media Player |
| 13:25.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 |
| 13:25.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | FFS |
| 13:25.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget _default omp |
| 13:25.53 | infobot | i didn't have anything called '_default omp' to forget, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget omp |
| 13:26.03 | infobot | i forgot omp, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~omp |
| 13:26.08 | infobot | omp is probably Open Media Player |
| 13:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo omp is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 |
| 13:26.39 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 13:26.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~omp |
| 13:26.42 | infobot | omp is, like, Open Media Player, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 |
| 13:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal omp |
| 13:27.16 | infobot | "#maemo omp" is "Open Media Player, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156" |
| 13:28.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | lrn2factoidPLZKTNX |
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| 13:33.09 | Iridos | just had a look at that and... more like http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Media_Player or even http://maemo.org/packages/view/openmediaplayer/ ? |
| 13:34.20 | Iridos | the starting post seems outdated linking to some kind of horrible /usr/local installer from omp's early times |
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| 13:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | Iridos: thanks for checking. |
| 13:45.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, #maemo omp is http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Media_Player |
| 13:45.39 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:53.19 | Iridos | welcome :) And of course my motivation was an entirely selfish one, really. |
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| 14:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm quite hapy about you pointing me at OMP wiki, it confirmed my notion that there's no sound rationale why OMP ever should replace MP in CSSU, since you can easily install and even use the both concurrently and select which one is default system mediaplayer, by editing one single line in a config file |
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| 14:20.58 | ShadowJK | is it feature complete with original? |
| 14:21.01 | FIQ|n900 | !war |
| 14:23.15 | MrPingu | Well, IMO cssu should aim to replace closed bits, if and only if the alternative is feature-complete and stable (as stable as nokia version) |
| 14:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: alas we have nobody to do decent QA even for urgently needed bugfixes |
| 14:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: so any statement of "is stable" is a hoax |
| 14:25.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: and I'm strongly deprecating to mess "with a working system" just to get the benefit of "it's FOSS now", since I for one don't care if it's FOSS as long as I don't have a bug or improvement to fix in it |
| 14:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and generally we won't *replace* _anything_, when the planned replacement as well can coexist |
| 14:27.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | offering additional options is fine. Removing anything will happen only when that thing is rogue in any way |
| 14:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: seems it is |
| 14:28.52 | ShadowJK | including resume of playback and signaling last playback position to other apps? :-) |
| 14:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: CSSU is _not_ aiming to forcefeed a supposedly "better" or "nicer" fixed set of applications onto users |
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| 14:30.25 | MrPingu | I see, but it is to get bug fixes onto users where nokia failed. Or not? |
| 14:30.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: CSSU is about bugfixes if they are dangerous, and everything else shall be strictly optional, IOW offer additional options to users, not deprive them from stuff |
| 14:32.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not going to do the "new better version: 70% of useless functions finally removed" |
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| 14:34.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there's a way to increase the number of options in any way, we will prefer that. If there's a suggestion to reduce number of options for users, we usually will reject since there's nothing wrong with options you got |
| 14:35.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | so _relacing_ (means deleting) MP by OMP won't happen, since they can coexist, giving CSSU users the option to install/keep and even use either one or even both concurrently |
| 14:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/relac/replac/ |
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| 14:37.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | what CSSU might do is to take M(edia)P(layer) out of m(eta)p(ackake) so user can actually uninstall it - sth you can't do so far. Thus increasing options of user, not reducing them |
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| 14:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | "dear Amazon user: we just uploaded the new improved version of 'Linux unleashed' e-book to your kindle. It comes with option to underline words and highlight passages, is written in new awesome gothic font, and we removed the useless chapter 13. Alas we had to delete your previous version of this book to recover the space for the new improved version" I *bet* you'd be extremely amused about such message |
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| 14:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Amazon indeed sometimes does this or similar nasty. CSSU never should |
| 14:46.14 | jon_y | "dear Amazon user: We removed have noticed your poor taste and replaced your collection with the more popular twilight series" |
| 14:47.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: nope, seems that's still missing |
| 14:47.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | according to wiki |
| 14:47.53 | jon_y | "dear Amazon user: We noticed you mayy be reading subversive material and replaced your collection with ebooks approoved by the commision of the patriotic homeland" |
| 14:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | the wiki well might be pretty outdated though |
| 14:49.25 | jon_y | "Dear Amazon user: We noticed you are reading books native to your own language and replaced your collection with books in our favored language" |
| 14:49.39 | jon_y | hmm, I must be off my meds |
| 14:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, thanks for reminder |
| 14:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
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| 14:52.14 | MrPingu | Agreed :P |
| 14:52.46 | MrPingu | On the part of removing it from meta-package |
| 14:52.53 | Mike11 | hey people :) |
| 14:52.54 | Mike11 | Help, is it just me? or nokia n900 is unable to play youtube videos anymore from the native browser?? |
| 14:53.23 | kerio | eeh, it always only kinda worked for me |
| 14:53.28 | kerio | it was always stuttering |
| 14:53.30 | kerio | use cutetube |
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| 14:55.56 | Mike11 | kerio: cutetube needs libspeex1, I can't find this package do u have it?? |
| 14:56.24 | kerio | so it's not installable? D: |
| 14:56.30 | kerio | report a bug to its maintainer |
| 14:56.56 | Mike11 | kerio: I have so many applications that depend on a package that is not available |
| 14:57.20 | Mike11 | kerio: I have added maemo extras, maemo extras testing |
| 14:57.37 | Mike11 | kerio: still these not solved! |
| 14:57.48 | Mike11 | kerio: do u have any idea what to do? |
| 14:58.56 | kerio | so cutetube is in extras-testing, but it's not installable? |
| 14:59.08 | kerio | definetely a bug |
| 14:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn shite! N900 display turns all black, with only single random gui elements (like cursor, or time in status area, or random other button) sometimes staying visible |
| 15:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing in syslog :-/ |
| 15:00.21 | kerio | graphics glitch |
| 15:00.28 | kerio | reboot! |
| 15:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 15:00.37 | kerio | it happened to me once, too |
| 15:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | but on a strange logical level |
| 15:00.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not too strange |
| 15:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it just loses all video content, then renders some few elements anew |
| 15:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 15:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot time |
| 15:01.36 | kerio | in my case, it drawed whenever something updated |
| 15:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 15:01.57 | kerio | glad to see that failure modes are at least common |
| 15:01.58 | kerio | :D |
| 15:04.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | but WHAT THE HELL, when xterm goes black after it refreshed the white background when I hit enter, then the screen goes all black ooh wait a tiny scrollbar comes up(!) instead on very right side of screen, and fades out "slowly" while rest of screen all bleck in a millisecond |
| 15:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh!! reboot |
| 15:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | which brings me to another pita: since quite some time VoIP doesn't go online when device associates to my home WLAN. When I however disconnect and reconnect to same WLAN a 30s later (or any other arbitrary moment), everything is pretty fine |
| 15:14.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | coming home -> device roams from GPRS to WLAN -> VoIP says "not connected, network error". Disconnect, reconnect -> VoIP shows green dot |
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| 15:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/coming home/booting device/ if you like |
| 15:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders wth is the difference between booting up device and it scans for wlans and connects to my home wlan, and me going to "internet" and disconnecting wlan, device scans for wlans, I tap on my home network and it connects to it |
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| 15:20.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ummmm... might it send a DHCP-release to my router when I disconnect and then get a new lease when I reconnect? but only a lease-renew on same lease when I reboot and it auto-connects? |
| 15:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's the case, this might cause troubles with still kept-alive NAT sessions that are not known to SIP and only get torn down in NAT when the device actually actively disconnects? |
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| 15:26.23 | ShadowJK | I'd be surprised if nat gets torn down by a proper disconnect |
| 15:27.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nat sessions |
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| 15:27.42 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 15:28.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually aninteresting question if the NAT gets to know about clients losing the DHCP lease |
| 15:29.04 | ShadowJK | It takes effort to implement, custom modifications to the kernel networking stack, and is not needed |
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| 15:29.12 | ShadowJK | so my bet is on "no" |
| 15:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, not needed? |
| 15:29.49 | ShadowJK | they expire eventually on their own anyways |
| 15:30.06 | ShadowJK | and get updated/changed if they collide with a new client |
| 15:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you have port forwards then those wont, and you don't want another device gettings same internal IP (port forwards are always to internal IP, never to MAC or device name) and inheriting the port forwards, or do you...? hmmm |
| 15:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | STUN might get confused anyway, aiui |
| 15:33.48 | sixwheeledbeast | FYI the factoid did not respond when prompted so I "made" one. It then shows the previous factoid at the time of writing new one. A link is much better than just "Open Media Player" so it was left. No learning required". |
| 15:34.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I got this problem since I got two (instead of one) NAT-routers between me and the internets |
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| 15:36.49 | sixwheeledbeast | I also agree with MrPingu, It seems some items are replaced and others not. It's not fair that what goes it to CSSU is not clear IMO. Hence the thread I started. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90862 |
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| 15:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nasty thing about most NATs: even if you have a port forward <publicIP>:5060 -> <localIP>:5060, you always get <localIP>:5060 -> <publicIP>:$random-port as a NAT session when local machine connects out to the internet |
| 15:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: a) obviously *much* learning required since you didn't even get what I did to fix what you did. ~omp is a channel-specific factoid, you can't redefine it the way you tried |
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| 15:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | b) the unfortunate fact that e.g. cmaerau-ui2 got into CSSU unconditionally always been blamed as a huge mistake by me. It never should've happened and it's for sure no good logic to use it as rationale for doing same mistake again and again, to be "fair" |
| 15:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually purging perfectly working non-hazardous binaries from any users device, to replace them by some alternative unconditionally, just to "be fair" is as unfair as it gets to the user |
| 15:42.52 | Mike11 | kerio: I found the package here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/s/speex/libspeex1_1.2~rc1-1maemo7%2b0m5_armel.deb and downloaded and installed manually, now cutetube is working, do u know why wasn't it installing normally??!! |
| 15:43.32 | kerio | idk |
| 15:43.38 | sixwheeledbeast | calculator was also replaced it's not just we are talking about nicocam. |
| 15:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU is not the playground for devels, where the one can start to cry since it's not "fair" when his project isn't forced onto all users' devices just like his "opponent's" project was |
| 15:45.11 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: nicocam is fixing severe bug in the stock one. please stop that. |
| 15:45.59 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: what bugs are OMP and replacement clock-ui fixing? |
| 15:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU uis about users and providing a maximum user friendly and FOSS spirited clean way for keeping their devices/systems intact |
| 15:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: where's the bug ticket? |
| 15:46.17 | sixwheeledbeast | Exactly. there are small bugs in all these foss replacement otherwise why spend time replacing them. |
| 15:46.22 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: besides being FOSS replacements |
| 15:46.36 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: on BMO |
| 15:46.49 | freemangordon | just a minute |
| 15:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | what are those severe bugs in stock camera that are so hazardous that you can't allow a any unaware user to continue using the stock camera? |
| 15:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it corrupt data on user's storage? Block 911 phonecalls? Burn out the flash LEDs? |
| 15:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | violate copyright? or even introduce malware or open up vulnerabilities? |
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| 15:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | forced purge is allowable *only* for dangerous apps or programs |
| 15:50.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: recording a pretty much unusable video is sever bug in my book |
| 15:51.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a minor inconvenience and no reason at all why a program must get revoked so nobody can use it anymore |
| 15:52.26 | freemangordon | being unable to record video is a minor inconvenience? omg, I am out |
| 15:53.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | you say you got the right to force me to not further use stock camera since *you* say it's buggy? |
| 15:53.29 | freemangordon | bug 7062 |
| 15:53.30 | povbot_ | 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7062 Video camera does not record smoothly |
| 15:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really don't get what#s wrong with you |
| 15:54.06 | freemangordon | this is the bug in question |
| 15:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, is it a showstopper? something that has *any* impact beyond the bug itself? |
| 15:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if not then it's no justification to purge the app from all existing devices, no matter if you provide an alternative or not |
| 15:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: when we want to force replacement (instead of option to pick one or the other) of any app, then we need a reason good enough to even remove the original app when we wouldn't be able to provide a replacement. |
| 15:58.20 | freemangordon | I guess 44 votes for that bug are giving CSSU team good enough reason |
| 15:58.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we can tolerate users to continue use stock app until we can provide the replacement, then it's up to user to decide if he wants to accept our alternative once we provide it or if they rather want to keep the original |
| 15:58.50 | freemangordon | and honestly, I won't argue with you about nokicam anymore |
| 15:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | not 1 million votes for any bug give a reason to purge the app |
| 15:59.16 | freemangordon | both of us are just wasting time |
| 16:00.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only valid reason to purge an app is a hazardous bug or malware or vulnerabilty/securtity-threat |
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| 16:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | listen buddy, I paid for stock camera app. Who do you think you are to delete it from my device and replace it by sth you think is beter for me, without even asking me? |
| 16:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | you as well could delete it from my device without replacing it, it wouldn't be any worse and i'd be exactly as angry on you |
| 16:04.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't have a damn good reason not to ask me if I'm content with your replacing action (like "device will explode at random, when using this app. So we deleted it on all devices we could reach"), I think you're a rogue guy |
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| 16:06.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly don't get it what makes you think your approach to purge apps at random was any sane |
| 16:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least as long as we got an easy alternative: allowing user to choose |
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| 16:09.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely no arguing about how many votes on any bug can make a valid exuse not to give user freedom of choice when we could easily (or even not so easily) do it. |
| 16:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and before you start again with your argumentation chain about workload on devels was too high when we give user the freedom of choice: when devels can't handle this simple problem that's actually handlable in max one hour of additional work, then they better stay away from maemo completely, rather than ruining a good system with halfarsed "fixes" |
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| 16:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | for e.g. OMP there's 0, I repeat: *ZERO* sound rationale why it ever should purge stock mediaplayer in an unconditional way that user can't opt-in or opt-out |
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| 16:19.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | for camera-ui2 there been exactly as litte rationale why user can't have the choice to pick the camera app he prefers |
| 16:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing wrong with replacing all you seem fit with alternative improved CSSU versions, as long as user at least can opt-out and reinstall the original. But to forcefully purge sth from user's system just because we have an alternative we think is better, that's outright bold and an offense to FOSS spirit |
| 16:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | how about watsapp nuking SMS functionality for example? Don't we think it#s way better since it doesn't cost use money and it's FOSS unlike the SMS lib in ISI stack? |
| 16:26.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | where do we stop forcing our idea onto user? |
| 16:27.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and there lies the problem with our communication - you talk about FOSS spirit, I talk about software product which I(and the others) support. The fact that this SW product is FOSS (in most of its parts) doesn't change the fact that most of the users don't give a shit about maemo being FOSS or not. As long as it works. |
| 16:27.41 | freemangordon | just look at yaparri thread and see what kind of users own n900 |
| 16:27.55 | freemangordon | yappari even |
| 16:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is no product. |
| 16:28.10 | freemangordon | oh, it is |
| 16:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, and even board had to learn this |
| 16:28.36 | freemangordon | it is what nokia sold you installed on n900 |
| 16:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a project, no product |
| 16:28.55 | freemangordon | I am speaking in terms of CSSU |
| 16:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even when it was a product, it's not up to CSSU to manage it |
| 16:29.00 | freemangordon | not in general |
| 16:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ooh, so all the extras stuff is not maemo? |
| 16:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 16:29.52 | freemangordon | from CSSU POV maemo is SW product |
| 16:30.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wrong |
| 16:30.02 | freemangordon | IMO |
| 16:30.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, in *your* oppinion, that is flase. sorry |
| 16:30.28 | freemangordon | I could be wrong, but how is that I feel it. And that is how I try to behave |
| 16:30.34 | freemangordon | *that is how |
| 16:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bought N900 (and even N810) because it is _not_ a product that some obscure dude or company decides everything for me |
| 16:31.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but you're not the only n900 user CSSU should take care of. |
| 16:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I think most of maemo users did because of that |
| 16:32.30 | freemangordon | I don't think so, again, look at yappari thread |
| 16:32.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even if there are some users who think they want someone to do decisions for them, it's not legit to force same decisions to all the other users |
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| 16:33.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: lets agree to disagree and leave merlin1991 to make the decisions about CSSU :) |
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| 16:34.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | by same rationale you could force all supermarkets to remove everything but snickers from their assortment, since most users buy snickers anyway |
| 16:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: merlin1991 DID that decission, 18 months ago |
| 16:35.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's you and another few guys who ignore that and argue against the consequences from that decision ever since |
| 16:35.48 | freemangordon | well, me another few guys is all of CSSU team |
| 16:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, so suddenly merlin1991 isn't cssu team anymore, and he's not supposed to do resp enforce that decision? |
| 16:36.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: don't twist my words please |
| 16:37.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're twisting |
| 16:37.59 | freemangordon | merlin1991 is the maintainer and afaik there is nothing in CSSU done without his approval |
| 16:38.10 | freemangordon | however, I have to run |
| 16:38.20 | freemangordon | is afk |
| 16:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we decided to make all apps (optional-)alternative that have any chance to get handled that way. This decision been taken 18months(?) ago in a public meeting |
| 16:40.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's simply nothing to argue about anymore, anless you again start with threatening to no further contribute to CSSU when we don't *force* alternatives onto users without giving them a choice like every linux user has in every other sane distro |
| 16:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I explained in epic painstaking length why the whole problem is in metapackage and that it's up to devels to ship their projects with a proper install file that has all the dependencies they need (like is mandatory on *every* other distro that doesn't have this insane metapackage). Merlin will care about the rest which is: "remove package from mp" and maybe even "add one apt commandline to a shellscript that at some point during CSSU |
| 16:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | update get executed" |
| 16:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as a package isn't entangled to mp anymore, user is free to uninstall it via apt and install the original stock package instead. I don't see _any_ reason why we mustn't do that. I.E. why we should deprive user from his opportunity to use apt to uninstall and install packages to all her/his liking, not limited by any insane metapackage that defines what has to be there and what can't get in due to conflicts with the stuff that has |
| 16:49.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | to be there. |
| 16:53.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | all this has been discussed during weeks in that period 18 months ago, and finally merlin1991 and me elaborated on how to handle this problem in CSSU for the future. None of you had any objections, so it been agreed upon. Ever since you try to roll back that decision which kinda makes me angry |
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| 17:14.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | notices a quite strange change in general mentality and basic values during last few years. People more and more asking that some authority outlaws or otherwise erradicates all alternative ways or thoughts or preferences that those people consider aren't the true and right ones. Smoking. Alcohol. Recently even meat meals in dining facilities - they are not asking for vegan meals, they demand not offering meat meals. What the heck |
| 17:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this odd mindset? |
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| 18:00.01 | Lithdk | Yo so I finally got my sim card for my data plan. Bit of a question though, how do I set it up for 3g, internet, whatever. I am connected and can go on to sites, but is that the connection that's included in my data plan. There's a connection requiring no passwd in the list called "Telmore Internet" |
| 18:00.11 | Lithdk | Using this connection draws on my dataplan right? |
| 18:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly |
| 18:02.01 | Lithdk | Alrighty, thanks |
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| 19:33.37 | HtheB | MohammadAG: Sup |
| 19:33.41 | HtheB | long time no speak |
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| 20:20.45 | WizardNumberNext | could I have an option to flash root without modem (cmt?) again? Is it --flash-only ? |
| 20:29.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | --flash-only rootfs |
| 20:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
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| 20:37.07 | WizardNumberNext | chears I think it works. I worked it out, but wanted to have confirmation |
| 20:37.21 | WizardNumberNext | just did full flash |
| 20:37.24 | WizardNumberNext | with emmc |
| 20:37.45 | WizardNumberNext | now I need backupmenu and kp |
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| 20:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | first of all check /opt |
| 20:41.32 | WizardNumberNext | then I can simply get to backup anytime |
| 20:41.38 | WizardNumberNext | fsck? |
| 20:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | since usually you *must* flash rootfs _after_ eMMC |
| 20:42.09 | WizardNumberNext | actually I did flash root, emmc, root |
| 20:42.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | to make it re-optify aka populate-the-/opt |
| 20:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, fine :-.) |
| 20:42.28 | WizardNumberNext | it lost few things so I flashed rootfs again |
| 20:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | good |
| 20:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the foolproof way |
| 20:42.54 | WizardNumberNext | so that is the reason for emmc, rootfs not otherwise |
| 20:43.26 | WizardNumberNext | anyway n900 is pretty much foolproof device - you can flash it anytime and it works |
| 20:43.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, basically that's correct |
| 20:43.53 | WizardNumberNext | I love it - I bricked it something like 3-4 times already - no problem to unbrick it |
| 20:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | rhere's one way to permanently mess up stuff, but you hardly ever run into it, and even less likely by accident |
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| 20:44.36 | WizardNumberNext | oh can I ask hot put lines from sources.list? |
| 20:44.41 | WizardNumberNext | into ham |
| 20:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | last one who had that problem got the nickname NAND-tester by this channel's users |
| 20:45.34 | WizardNumberNext | as I have backup of /etc and others on laptop I would like to write it down to n900 on ham |
| 20:45.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 20:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 20:46.30 | WizardNumberNext | I have backup of etc, so sources.list is there as well. I want to add catalogues to ham from it |
| 20:46.44 | WizardNumberNext | need to learn it anyway |
| 20:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, only valid automated methos to add catalogs to ham is via .install files |
| 20:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | method* |
| 20:47.25 | WizardNumberNext | no, I mean manual way |
| 20:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | open HAM, go to menu "catalogs" |
| 20:47.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | click "add catalog" |
| 20:48.02 | WizardNumberNext | just need to know how to enter repos from sources.list into ham fields |
| 20:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel -- other repos likewise |
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| 21:01.15 | WizardNumberNext | chears |
| 21:01.18 | WizardNumberNext | got most |
| 21:01.27 | WizardNumberNext | of what I had previously |
| 21:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues |
| 21:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | everything else apt reƶated gets overwritten by HAM eventually |
| 21:04.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | related* |
| 21:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates |
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| 21:06.06 | WizardNumberNext | ham is fine for as long as it installs what I want to install, otherwise I use apt |
| 21:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | the orthodox way to get catalogs installed is to click on following link (or similar links to other .install files), on N900 in microB or xchat: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install |
| 21:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | see: |
| 21:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 21:07.11 | infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 21:08.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Additional_Repositories actually |
| 21:09.38 | WizardNumberNext | ok I have kp52. Is it fine to install cssu-thumb? |
| 21:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing wrong with using apt in general, you just should know which commands you *never* must use (unless you know *extremely* good what you're doing): apt-get upgrade and any form of autoremove (and probably also -f) |
| 21:10.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: for cssu-thunmb you first want to install cssu |
| 21:10.29 | WizardNumberNext | I avoid doing anything fancy with aprt |
| 21:10.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 21:10.30 | infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 21:10.48 | WizardNumberNext | yeah I am definitely not going straight to thumb |
| 21:10.56 | WizardNumberNext | first testing |
| 21:11.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-thumb basing on cssu as cssu bases on fremantle |
| 21:12.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of e.g. pacman repositories for opensuse: they are not a replacement but an auxiliary supplementary repo that needs the base installation repo underneath |
| 21:12.42 | raccoon_ | hey, what's the etymology behind the name choice "thumb"? |
| 21:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 21:12.52 | WizardNumberNext | thumbnail |
| 21:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask ARM |
| 21:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouts "OUCH" each time he hears "thumbnailer" |
| 21:14.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | user 1950 0.0 1.3 14912 3296 ? Ssl 17:08 0:06 /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd |
| 21:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | do I really want a deamon on my device that's nailing my thumbs? |
| 21:21.30 | raccoon_ | that sounds highly uncomfortable |
| 21:21.50 | raccoon_ | nailing thumb demon of maemo |
| 21:22.10 | raccoon_ | maybe he's the one breaking those usb micro ports |
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| 21:59.10 | NeutrinoPower | hi, why don't work the gprs/gsm/umts... internet access on my N900 anymore? I tried the sim on a android-smartphone with success but on Maemo I only get an IP with gprs-device and cannot reach a website.. |
| 22:03.20 | NeutrinoPower | I will ask tomorrow again |
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| 22:22.40 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: actually, fucking up CAL won't do much |
| 22:23.31 | kerio | raccoon_: are you talking about cssu-thumb? |
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