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| 01:46.48 | qwerty123 | hii can we boot dsl from usd with uboot?or multiboot mayb? |
| 01:55.12 | qwerty123 | never mind, just realised its nt for arm!! |
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| 02:00.38 | qwerty123 | well, maybe tinycorelinux then!! :P |
| 02:07.57 | robbiethe1st | Wait, why do you want to? |
| 02:08.14 | robbiethe1st | You can strip down Maemo as much as you want, if you don't need X... |
| 02:10.35 | qwerty123 | i was just looking for lowest resource eater distros!! came across them!! thought, maybe with n900 hardware, i may have a very smooth linux machine!! dats y!! :P nothing els!! :P |
| 02:11.23 | robbiethe1st | Thing is, how much are you wiling to give up? |
| 02:11.26 | qwerty123 | we cant kick X.. kills all the gui?? maemo shudn boot then i believe!! |
| 02:11.41 | robbiethe1st | Well, no... you'd have a command line |
| 02:11.48 | qwerty123 | agreed!! :) |
| 02:12.11 | robbiethe1st | with power kernel it's definitely possible to get a proper command line only setup running, which obviously has no real resource use... |
| 02:12.21 | qwerty123 | stopping xorg,end in reboot!! removing should end in reboot loop :P |
| 02:13.14 | robbiethe1st | No, you wouldn't stop or remove it, you'd not start it. Of course, you couldn't allow the various other components to start either, so you'd basically have to start from init or so... see bootmenu |
| 02:14.15 | robbiethe1st | You can easily configure a menu item which will allow you to run a script. At that point, you'll need to deal with the watch dog timers, make sure they don't time out, and then load whatever modules you need, drop to a shelll |
| 02:14.26 | robbiethe1st | See Backupmenu for details of this |
| 02:15.24 | qwerty123 | recovery console sounds easier!! :P |
| 02:15.44 | robbiethe1st | It depends on what you want... |
| 02:16.21 | robbiethe1st | See, with the method I've described, you'll boot "into" your maemo system, just not all the way. so all the files/kernel modules etc. will all be there |
| 02:17.17 | robbiethe1st | you can then do your own launching etc. Might even be able to boot 'into' a debian chroot, run lightweight X etc? |
| 02:18.17 | qwerty123 | yeah kinda got that!! neways i somehow managed to mess my easydeb so was lookkng fr a replacement!! but killing gui is actually going too far :P hehe! thanx man for the info,btw!! |
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| 02:34.09 | SAiF | boot looping after battery drain.. |
| 02:41.06 | SAiF | last thing was apt-get install SSH |
| 02:41.22 | robbiethe1st | Do you have backupmenu? |
| 02:41.29 | robbiethe1st | If not, you're kind of out of luck |
| 02:41.43 | robbiethe1st | (or rescue console etc) |
| 02:42.05 | SAiF | No.. so I am kinda fscked up. |
| 02:42.33 | robbiethe1st | Yup. |
| 02:43.09 | robbiethe1st | When you wipe it, so long as you just do the main image(and not the eMMC one), you won't lose your MyDocs files |
| 02:43.14 | robbiethe1st | Just your apps and such |
| 02:44.32 | SAiF | Yeah I always take backup of mydocs.. I am I will have to flash it twice in a month. |
| 02:44.46 | SAiF | by the way whats wrong with SSH? |
| 02:50.09 | robbiethe1st | No clue |
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| 03:19.39 | SAiF | jus booted up after replacing battery and removing from charger. |
| 03:20.23 | SAiF | package name of backupmenu or rescue console.. pls apt_get install >>>>> |
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| 03:27.46 | SAiF | just installed backup menu |
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| 04:18.56 | Macor | hm. cutetube in the stable repo is broken |
| 04:20.27 | Macor | maybe the testing one works |
| 04:29.00 | Macor | odd. the newer cutetube isnt in the repos |
| 04:30.50 | Macor | i enabled extras-devel |
| 04:30.55 | Macor | isnt showing up |
| 04:32.31 | Macor | oh |
| 04:32.41 | Macor | cssu-s has the merlin repo as devel |
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| 06:41.46 | psycho_oreos | ~rescueos |
| 06:41.46 | infobot | from memory, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ |
| 06:42.00 | psycho_oreos | infobot, rescueos is also http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ |
| 06:42.00 | infobot | okay, psycho_oreos |
| 06:42.05 | psycho_oreos | ~rescueos |
| 06:42.06 | infobot | methinks rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ |
| 06:44.33 | psycho_oreos | ~botsnack |
| 06:44.33 | infobot | psycho_oreos: aw, gee |
| 06:46.17 | psycho_oreos | <LjL-Alps> wow, so cool to see a thread where someone compares a 2005 device to a 2009 device and everyone else flames the 2005 device, or whatever <-- The guy posted in the wrong area mainly and I guess most of us were N900 fans to begin with. |
| 06:47.38 | psycho_oreos | Well.. I guess there's partially "favouritism" but also the way the OP phrased things were all subject to closer scrutiny. |
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| 06:51.30 | psycho_oreos | I'm pretty certain the exact same case were to be done elsewhere, regardless if its xda-developers or iphone forums. Posting in the wrong area and in a way to proclaim the "device" to be superior as opposed to whatever most others are using and it'll be like adding fuel to fire. |
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| 07:10.04 | psycho_oreos | lol @ thread hijackers. Shifting from one issue to another when the OP already had the issue solved. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1366367 |
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| 07:14.45 | psycho_oreos | bets viqtah is Indian. |
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| 07:31.52 | Macor | have to love fbsd ports |
| 07:31.54 | Macor | heh |
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| 07:57.44 | amospalla | hi, is that posible, to boot the internal kernel, and make it mount root in sd card, instead of internal emmc ? |
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| 07:58.14 | amospalla | I've had strange behaviour lately on emmc, and I thought it could be a good idea to move to sd, it that is posible |
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| 07:59.28 | amospalla | another option, is stop using home, mydocs and swap on emmc, and only use root, AFAIK it is a mostly read partition right? |
| 08:00.08 | amospalla | that last method is quite easy, just modify mount options on /etc |
| 08:00.23 | amospalla | what do you think about? anybody has had any experience with that? |
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| 08:13.40 | psycho_oreos | I believe rootfs is stored on a NAND partition. It is not stored on eMMC. |
| 08:14.23 | SpeedEvil | yup |
| 08:14.25 | psycho_oreos | Using only rootfs would not make the device function properly (if at all). |
| 08:14.50 | SpeedEvil | it would sort of work with early versions |
| 08:14.56 | SpeedEvil | now not at all |
| 08:15.03 | psycho_oreos | Missing swap (which is almost a necessity due to RAM size), missing /home and /opt which shares the same partition on eMMC. |
| 08:15.18 | SpeedEvil | in principle, there is no reason you can't use SD instead |
| 08:15.27 | amospalla | but, I could move everything on emmc to external sd, just editing startup scripts, to mount those on sd |
| 08:15.31 | SpeedEvil | nobodies done it and written it up though |
| 08:15.44 | psycho_oreos | Exactly, nobody is willing to take that risk either. |
| 08:16.36 | SpeedEvil | IIRC someone installing bootmenu, then reinstalling the NAND using meego |
| 08:16.44 | SpeedEvil | they having a broken USB |
| 08:16.47 | SpeedEvil | worked |
| 08:16.56 | SpeedEvil | but not written up |
| 08:17.08 | SpeedEvil | there was a meego SD image |
| 08:17.12 | psycho_oreos | I remember someone documenting meego installation using that nice N900 flashing jig. |
| 08:20.16 | psycho_oreos | I'd imagine without a fast enough microSD card (class 10 barely scrapes that mark unless one forks out a really trustworthy and a fast type), you need to somehow delay certain things because there of speed difference. |
| 08:20.53 | psycho_oreos | s/of/is a/ |
| 08:20.55 | amospalla | on /etc/init.d/rcS, mounting swap and home seems to be harcoded |
| 08:20.59 | SpeedEvil | read speeds are often similar |
| 08:21.08 | amospalla | right, I would need a fast sd |
| 08:21.15 | psycho_oreos | write speeds otoh aren't. |
| 08:21.45 | SpeedEvil | my first approach would be to change the device node names in early boot |
| 08:21.50 | SpeedEvil | see if that worked |
| 08:21.56 | psycho_oreos | Yeah there would be a few scripts you need to change around to make it work. It's not some easy one way job. |
| 08:22.21 | psycho_oreos | hmm via udev? |
| 08:22.27 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if simply turning off the NAND support in kernel would work |
| 08:22.29 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
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| 08:23.24 | amospalla | another option, if emmc is not a smart chip (ie: logical sector XX is always the same physical sector on NAND), use small partitions, and the day some physical sectors get defective, move that partitio to a higher block of sectors on emmc |
| 08:24.44 | psycho_oreos | Also, this is a little unrelated but often at times for me to have my microSD to be mounted at boot (which is already using ext3) seems to not work well. I often get "Unsupported SD card" or something like that, in which I just run one of those QueenBeeCon widget I made to force mount it later. I wonder if that would be an issue if forcing maemo to run on microSD and with ext3 fs. |
| 08:26.23 | psycho_oreos | I sort of had always been under the impression that eMMC heavily relies on e2fsck tools to check and mark bad sectors, etc. |
| 08:27.11 | psycho_oreos | I also somehow would think that eMMC behaves a little similar to how SSD would behave.. still heavily depending on external fs tools to check their status. |
| 08:27.14 | Iridos | hm, I never got "unsupported sd card" at boot, ever |
| 08:27.28 | psycho_oreos | Running on ext3 for microSD? |
| 08:27.33 | Iridos | no |
| 08:27.41 | Iridos | left it as the vfat it was |
| 08:28.10 | Iridos | yeah, I wondered how much of a problem it might create if you switch to a proper fs |
| 08:28.10 | psycho_oreos | That would be the case :) I reckon. I'm using ext3 on both eMMC and microSD. eMMC never fails to mount but microSD (~90% of the time) fails. |
| 08:28.52 | psycho_oreos | In theory it shouldn't have issues mounting ext3fs but for some reason I believe somewhere else is still thinking microSD fs are always vfat and not some other exotic fs. |
| 08:29.02 | amospalla | I have swap, vfat and ext3 on sd, but I don't remember how do I mount them, I think I do it with a own script, IIRC |
| 08:29.09 | Iridos | with it being ext3, does all that remounting stuff when you connect to a computer via usb still work? |
| 08:29.33 | amospalla | sometimes get that error message, but I always have them mounted |
| 08:29.57 | amospalla | I don't use masstorage |
| 08:30.05 | psycho_oreos | amospalla, that would also be my way of doing it. "hackish" yes but nonetheless it works. |
| 08:30.22 | amospalla | well, yes, I've done it sometimes, and the small vfat on sd is exported via usb |
| 08:30.43 | amospalla | psycho_oreos: what are you refering to? |
| 08:31.01 | amospalla | about the way to mount? or the emmc partitions? |
| 08:31.19 | psycho_oreos | Iridos, I also hardly use mass storage mode as well. Though I believe remounting on computer works as always, it may not work once umounted from computer and N900 tries to mount it by itself. Though I have not tried recently so I wouldn't know (let alone care). |
| 08:31.25 | drathir | psycho_oreos: fs created on sd throught phone, or from pc? |
| 08:31.31 | psycho_oreos | amospalla, mounting. |
| 08:31.57 | psycho_oreos | drathir, I believe at the time when I did it, it was through computer. |
| 08:32.34 | amospalla | I once set n900 to start at boot as root, a script on /root/local.start, and I do lots of funky things there |
| 08:33.05 | Iridos | what is your major way to exchange files with the n900 then? |
| 08:33.07 | drathir | that strange in this case i have problems with mount but fs created from phone was... |
| 08:33.08 | psycho_oreos | I probably would have done mkfs.ext3 on device before but it was painfully slow. Though its been ages ago since I recall how or what I did. |
| 08:33.10 | amospalla | the last one, is starting /home/user/bin/local.start as user "user" :D |
| 08:33.40 | drathir | amospalla: why do that? |
| 08:33.52 | psycho_oreos | I wished I could get upstart to behave nicely lol. Some of my daemons fail to start for some unknown reason. |
| 08:34.55 | psycho_oreos | Iridos, I mainly use sshfs (yes I know its slow and somewhat overkill) but I tend to keep the device usable through remoting as well rather than just treating it as mass storage mode and not being able to have access to those exported volumes on the device itself. |
| 08:35.00 | amospalla | I mount things on sd, launch some custom scripts, execute some terminals at startup... 4 years of having a n900 let me to thing about a lot of funny and strange things |
| 08:35.19 | usr_courier | hi all! Sorry for off-topic, but could someone tell me is there any channel about a Canonical "ubuntuphone"? |
| 08:35.29 | drathir | amospalla: you mean all system booted in root mode? Thats bad idea i think all data net saved on big storage in this case... |
| 08:35.48 | psycho_oreos | You could probably ask in #ubuntu and hopefully they'll redirect you to appropriate channel usr_courier. |
| 08:37.05 | amospalla | drathir: no, I mean, I run things as root, to say, mount, bind mounts, starting daemons from a chroot I've set up, and finally, launch a 'su -s /bin/sh -c "/home/user/bin/local.start" user', to run things as user |
| 08:37.09 | drathir | usr_courier: /msg alice help |
| 08:37.13 | psycho_oreos | I used to also make upstart do some funky things upon boot, but with mixed success. Nowadays daemons fail to start for some weird reason, if I manually invoked them to start, they start otherwise they remain stopped. |
| 08:37.19 | drathir | if good remember |
| 08:37.21 | psycho_oreos | drathir, you meant alis |
| 08:37.24 | amospalla | drathir: everything runs with its correct user |
| 08:37.26 | usr_courier | found one |
| 08:37.37 | usr_courier | #ubuntu-touch |
| 08:37.50 | drathir | psycho_oreos: yes yes should find by name channel |
| 08:38.51 | usr_courier | btw is anybody here interested in that platform too and can say a few words on "ubuntu touch" versus "maemo/meego/tizen" platform? Which one is more "open"? Any suggestions? |
| 08:39.26 | psycho_oreos | That's as good as trying to compare a fictional device with a fully released device. |
| 08:39.49 | amospalla | I just hope ubuntu is open enough, so when my n900 dies I can have a decent gnu/linux on my mobile, without having to set a hacky/broken chroot |
| 08:40.42 | usr_courier | amospalla: considering an "upgrade" to ubuntu-touch? |
| 08:41.02 | SpeedEvil | amospalla: are you aware of Jolla? |
| 08:41.08 | psycho_oreos | I personally doubt it will, ubuntu's theme isn't the same as its parent debian who is critical of open sourced stuff. If you also have a look at most other embedded devices, they still have proprietary components. Even raspberry pi. |
| 08:41.35 | amospalla | SpeedEvil: I've read a bit of it, but is that really open? at least, as much as maemo is? |
| 08:41.41 | Lava_Croft | let's combine the best of both worlds |
| 08:41.44 | Lava_Croft | android and ubuntu |
| 08:41.44 | SpeedEvil | Jolla seem the most likely to produce a worthy successor |
| 08:41.47 | Lava_Croft | what can possibly go wrong |
| 08:42.25 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, yeah android base with ubuntu theme :> that would be effective, keep hardware manufacturers happy that the underlying hardware components is closed source. |
| 08:42.27 | drathir | maemo > meego i think but the meego and mostly tizen should have bigger future... |
| 08:42.28 | usr_courier | AFAIK maemo5 is not fully open too, there are seems to be binary drivers |
| 08:42.28 | SpeedEvil | Jolla is nice in principle because it can run androsid apps in klinux |
| 08:42.41 | wnd | if only jolla hardware was to get a decent hardware keyboard |
| 08:42.53 | usr_courier | psycho_oreos: are you SURE you KNOW what you are talking about? |
| 08:42.56 | amospalla | usr_courier: I'm not considering upgrade to ubuntu right now, just hope it can be a good competitor, competition is good, and if it is open enough, it can make a good difference |
| 08:42.58 | usr_courier | :) |
| 08:43.05 | wnd | had they announced one, I would've pre-ordered the thing already |
| 08:43.27 | psycho_oreos | usr_courier, exactly about what? the last comment I directed to Lava_Croft was a joke. I wasn't serious. |
| 08:43.50 | usr_courier | I see no problem in porting ubuntu to an ARM phone. Debian was ported to n900 |
| 08:44.01 | usr_courier | psycho_oreos: ok |
| 08:44.07 | wnd | I see a problem. ubuntu. ;-) |
| 08:44.15 | Lava_Croft | thats why they use android too |
| 08:44.18 | Lava_Croft | to fix ubuntu! |
| 08:44.19 | drathir | android is open like hell even cant acces to full root phone thats for me isnt open... |
| 08:44.25 | Lava_Croft | chuckles like a madman |
| 08:44.27 | psycho_oreos | The problem is not about porting, the problem is the openness of the said agreement with the suppliers and manufacturers of those respective components. |
| 08:44.29 | usr_courier | wnd: is this an religious issue? |
| 08:44.37 | amospalla | usr_courier: you mean, the chroot? I have not played with that, but can a chroot be completely integrated, to the point to replace the host system? |
| 08:45.19 | psycho_oreos | I still remain skeptic whether ubuntu edge will fly or not. Currently they are at least $21 million short. |
| 08:45.44 | Lava_Croft | and they have no device |
| 08:45.51 | usr_courier | amospalla: I think it can, just no one wants to remove maemo from his/her n900 as a master system |
| 08:45.58 | wnd | usr_courier, mostly yes, but I've also had my fair share of bad experience in trying to maintain a few hundred computers with ubuntu installed on them |
| 08:46.02 | psycho_oreos | Yeah so we are debating/discussing over "fictional" product. |
| 08:46.10 | psycho_oreos | So many possibilities.. |
| 08:46.12 | Lava_Croft | the only guys who really have a working device is Jolla |
| 08:46.19 | usr_courier | because debian on n900 was just a toy |
| 08:46.20 | drathir | ubuntu for od until 11.04 go with bad side that dont like me so much... |
| 08:46.23 | Lava_Croft | the rest piggyback rides on other devices |
| 08:46.53 | usr_courier | psycho_oreos: I am not going to debate with you on finctioness of this product |
| 08:46.54 | amospalla | usr_courier: I refered to android/ubuntu only, n900 can not handle current android/ubuntu with its 256MB of memory :(, it is out of the equation |
| 08:47.04 | Lava_Croft | it can handle it |
| 08:47.08 | Lava_Croft | just not good enough:) |
| 08:47.10 | usr_courier | psycho_oreos: follow peacefully your strange beliefs |
| 08:47.23 | amospalla | right |
| 08:47.40 | amospalla | sadly |
| 08:47.52 | Lava_Croft | android wants a quadcore cpu to perform |
| 08:47.57 | Lava_Croft | because its such good software |
| 08:48.06 | drathir | usr_courier: if you dont do so much changes maemo is fully functionall... |
| 08:48.06 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure there's fair few amongst us whom would prefer having a proper hardware keyboard which this ubuntu edge seems to currently lack. You can already see a few TMO threads about people who wishes Jolla phone/device actually has a hardware keyboard. |
| 08:48.22 | Lava_Croft | jolla will release a keyboard device in time |
| 08:48.33 | usr_courier | looks at his single core android phone and then on Lava_Croft |
| 08:48.47 | Lava_Croft | i look at my nexus7 |
| 08:48.48 | psycho_oreos | usr_courier, I don't think anybody who laid money on the said product would anyway :) I'm just stating where I stand amongst this "ubuntu edge". |
| 08:49.08 | drathir | Lava_Croft: oh that info litte scare me... |
| 08:49.12 | Lava_Croft | ubuntu edge movie mostly sounded like some rapper telling about his phone |
| 08:49.17 | Lava_Croft | sapphire glass yo |
| 08:49.40 | psycho_oreos | Critics also mentioned about that :) |
| 08:49.42 | usr_courier | ok, got the point. Thanks |
| 08:49.52 | drathir | Lava_Croft: because sadly maybe be interested that device... |
| 08:50.25 | Lava_Croft | Hey, ubuntu edge is just speculation at this moment, it might change and be more awesome |
| 08:50.31 | Lava_Croft | but just like i wouldnt want a phone that says 'Windows' |
| 08:50.37 | Lava_Croft | i also dont want a phone that says 'ubuntu |
| 08:50.51 | Lava_Croft | bad experiences |
| 08:51.43 | drathir | ubuntu changes for me go to bad side all the time now... |
| 08:51.52 | psycho_oreos | Hah, I'd prefer ubuntu any given day over windows. You see windows phones these days, much like any generic computer keyboard featuring "windows" logo as a key. Talk about lameness, *cough* Apple *cough* doesn't even do that. |
| 08:52.48 | drathir | psycho_oreos: but still ubuntu > win |
| 08:52.59 | Lava_Croft | i rather have windows |
| 08:53.02 | Lava_Croft | since at least windows runs games |
| 08:53.10 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 08:53.42 | psycho_oreos | drathir, yeah hell yeah. To me any given day definitely I'd prefer something that's a little more open than have Ballmer spewing "Developers, Developers, Developers" over his coffin. |
| 08:54.01 | amospalla | I wish that ubuntu phone to be like maemo: a beautiful shell upon a "standard" stack of software below of it "bash, apt-get, an X compatible display, and the full ubuntu repo of software", something similar to what maemo is, but modern |
| 08:54.42 | drathir | Lava_Croft: wine maybe was ported to arm too |
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| 08:55.59 | psycho_oreos | If the hardware was fast enough and features something similar to VT-d or AMD-V, I'm sure one could run windows within a VM and therefore games. There's no real need to install windows on real hardware and let it meddle with the raw stuff. |
| 08:56.20 | drathir | amospalla: ubuntu go to bad side not performance and good to use now only good look for eyes nothing more... |
| 08:57.25 | drathir | thats why i run from ubuntu to arch... When they give me no choice by default with unity... |
| 08:57.43 | psycho_oreos | I was told that you can remove unity, not sure personally. |
| 08:58.06 | amospalla | I think most complaints to ubuntu come from their shell, but that is something you can change with apt-get, please correct me if I am wrong |
| 08:58.28 | amospalla | but once you jump that gap, isn't it a traditional linux under the hood? |
| 08:59.04 | drathir | psycho_oreos: yes i can but in ubu always when you remove somethin from system stuff near future system go down... |
| 08:59.33 | psycho_oreos | If generally speaking, I believe most find the likes of distros such as ubuntu too appealing to not use CLI. It's kinda like running windows and not having to bother with CLI but except when ubuntu's GUI stuffs up and you're left with CLI you probably would end up screaming. |
| 08:59.33 | amospalla | that is what I mean, if ubuntu phone still follows that rule, I will surely jump to it, with all my known gnu/linux tools below it, and a repo full of thousands of packages, just what I love on n900 |
| 08:59.41 | drathir | or will be have all time suprises... |
| 09:00.01 | psycho_oreos | drathir, not quite sure what you meant there. |
| 09:01.00 | psycho_oreos | Also fair few distros are moving towards wayland and deprecating Xorg. I have already heard some unpleasant stuff about wayland. Though I'm sure every other distros has their ups and downs. |
| 09:01.40 | psycho_oreos | Arch is heavily relying on systemd and there's already critics loathing it. Then there's upstart which ubuntu also uses but its not a complete replacement compared to sysvinit. |
| 09:01.52 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure people will have gripes here and there.. regardless. |
| 09:03.11 | Lava_Croft | drathir: wine is not a replacement for windows, when it comes to games:) |
| 09:03.47 | drathir | psycho_oreos: when you remove unity components you should have all time problems any kind that was all time in past when customize the ubuntu instalation a lot of dependencies and to much integrated... |
| 09:03.48 | amospalla | steam is changing the "games" world on linux, and I hope it keep growing fast |
| 09:03.49 | psycho_oreos | Nonetheless you find winedb being filled with game titles. Almost always. |
| 09:04.06 | Lava_Croft | that says nothing about how said games run |
| 09:04.10 | Lava_Croft | what the problems may be |
| 09:04.12 | Lava_Croft | performance |
| 09:04.24 | Lava_Croft | its easier to just run a win7 install:) |
| 09:04.29 | drathir | psycho_oreos: yes wayland isnt perfect but is still so young project... |
| 09:04.35 | psycho_oreos | drathir, well yeah that's true but it doesn't mean that you can't technically cannot remove unity. Just harder heh. |
| 09:05.01 | Lava_Croft | steam changed the gameworld on linux by porting old games to linux |
| 09:05.04 | amospalla | why remove unity? it is deeply inside, just don't run it |
| 09:05.12 | amospalla | isn't that posible? |
| 09:05.57 | drathir | Lava_Croft: sure not in all case but some of games better works on wine than native windows i hear that not one time... |
| 09:05.58 | psycho_oreos | That's probably because winedb isn't as polished as cedega ;), have a look at crossover/cedega's variant. Even though they are more proprietary, their db seems to be well polished over the freeform *ahem* wine variant. |
| 09:06.04 | psycho_oreos | drathir, true. |
| 09:06.16 | Lava_Croft | drathir: yeah just like the people stating game X runs faster under linux |
| 09:06.19 | Lava_Croft | than under windows |
| 09:06.28 | Lava_Croft | too bad thats just almost always untrue |
| 09:07.09 | psycho_oreos | Depending on their underlying engine. If the engine was based on opengl for instance, on linux it maybe faster but not always. |
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| 09:07.19 | Lava_Croft | thats just the renderer |
| 09:07.29 | Lava_Croft | what about sound, lol |
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| 09:07.35 | drathir | psycho_oreos: g2 was the best for me... Sad they stop develop... |
| 09:07.39 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure anandtech had an article about it.. err no.. phoronix. |
| 09:07.47 | Lava_Croft | phoronix |
| 09:07.52 | Lava_Croft | a good source for unbiased news |
| 09:08.06 | psycho_oreos | drathir, g2? |
| 09:08.18 | psycho_oreos | Its hard to find unbiased news these days regardless. |
| 09:09.22 | drathir | Lava_Croft: sounds sadly sometimes is little silence... |
| 09:09.23 | Lava_Croft | yeah, but phoronix is known for their silly articles |
| 09:09.45 | drathir | or take down alsa with overload... |
| 09:09.52 | Lava_Croft | besides, im the type that always tests cross platform games on both wintoons and lunix |
| 09:10.04 | Lava_Croft | and 99 out of a 100 times, wintoons just wins when it comes to that |
| 09:10.11 | Lava_Croft | which isnt strange, given the history |
| 09:10.24 | drathir | psycho_oreos: the best old gnome2... |
| 09:10.27 | Lava_Croft | the moment gnu/linux can honestly replace windows for gaming, a lot of folks will ditch windows happily |
| 09:11.27 | amospalla | it is a process, if steam is able to produce that, will take its time, that can not be done in a few months |
| 09:11.40 | psycho_oreos | Given the fact most games were based around windows' directX for that matter. Though even if lets not say I sourced my arguments from phoronix but say that in a more general sense that gaming windows games on linux isn't too far behind. I wouldn't be far off the mark either. |
| 09:11.42 | Lava_Croft | people talk like its steam that makes games work under linux |
| 09:11.46 | Lava_Croft | stop dreaming please |
| 09:11.51 | Lava_Croft | steam is only a DRM platform for games |
| 09:11.57 | Lava_Croft | developers need to port their games to linux |
| 09:12.04 | psycho_oreos | drathir, ahh I don't think I've ever used gnome2 lol. I think I started with KDE but that was years ago. |
| 09:12.38 | amospalla | yes, that is completely sure, but steam may orchestrate that, that is his role, and an important one |
| 09:12.47 | Lava_Croft | no, steam has no real role in that |
| 09:13.00 | Lava_Croft | a triple A studio is not going to port their direct3d based engine to linux anytime soon |
| 09:13.05 | psycho_oreos | Steam maybe the distributor but do remember the fact that steam was strictly for windows only. |
| 09:13.08 | Lava_Croft | not even id Software sees any reason to port to linux |
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| 09:13.41 | drathir | Lava_Croft: yes can with better performance if game firm and develop are to lazy to make native on linux and scare that performance will be better than win one... |
| 09:13.45 | Lava_Croft | steam on linux is mostly great for the indies |
| 09:13.46 | amospalla | if the movement steam is doing is not able to change the games situation, it will never ever do, I am almost sure about that |
| 09:13.47 | Lava_Croft | and smaller devs |
| 09:14.01 | Lava_Croft | triple A studios dont care for linux, since its market share is tiny |
| 09:14.05 | Lava_Croft | they care more about apples |
| 09:14.15 | amospalla | that is right, but I hope that changes |
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| 09:14.22 | Lava_Croft | hope is great, indeed |
| 09:14.27 | Lava_Croft | but i dont see it change anytime soon, sadly |
| 09:14.38 | Lava_Croft | also, dont forget that MS really did good work on directc |
| 09:14.41 | Lava_Croft | directx |
| 09:14.44 | Lava_Croft | its amazing, but they did! |
| 09:14.58 | amospalla | :'( |
| 09:15.03 | psycho_oreos | That was then, I wonder has directX become more bloat. |
| 09:15.20 | Lava_Croft | people like John Carmack state these days that directx is better than opengl |
| 09:15.30 | Lava_Croft | but opengl sticks around due to inertie |
| 09:15.36 | Lava_Croft | inertia* |
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| 09:15.55 | psycho_oreos | personally believes its more to do with cross-compatibility. |
| 09:16.40 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't doubt directX would be bad, too bad its just windows-centric piece of technology. |
| 09:16.54 | Lava_Croft | that doesnt matter, since windows is where the money is made |
| 09:16.58 | psycho_oreos | recalls all the cool demoscene stuff were heavily relying on directX. |
| 09:17.01 | amospalla | opengl has been dormant for years, until lately, when has woken up |
| 09:17.10 | Lava_Croft | directx just caught up on opengl |
| 09:17.14 | amospalla | directx take a lot of advantage during that time |
| 09:17.16 | Lava_Croft | and surpassed it |
| 09:17.26 | Lava_Croft | thats the silly thing about MS |
| 09:17.32 | Lava_Croft | they are so able to fuck things up in a grand way |
| 09:17.39 | Lava_Croft | but then you see directx and you wonder what |
| 09:17.44 | Lava_Croft | they DO have capable employees |
| 09:18.04 | psycho_oreos | Their CEO is messed up in the head -_-' |
| 09:18.05 | Lava_Croft | wonder why they didnt work on the windows8 team! :) |
| 09:18.38 | *** join/#maemo trx (~ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 09:18.42 | Lava_Croft | but ill gladly admit |
| 09:18.47 | Lava_Croft | it feels cool to run steam on linux |
| 09:19.00 | Lava_Croft | so i can totally imagine getting carried away with the dream of Linux Gaming:D |
| 09:19.10 | Lava_Croft | its just so neat to start l4d2 orso on linux |
| 09:19.17 | Lava_Croft | (until you notice it runs worse than on windows) |
| 09:19.34 | psycho_oreos | Gates, sadly I admit is the brains behind M$, without Gates's influence I don't think M$ can stand on its own well.. Just look at all the news surrounding Ballmer. |
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| 09:20.05 | psycho_oreos | thinks of Steam on linux, then thinks of TF2 with that bonus little mascot. |
| 09:21.33 | psycho_oreos | Slowly but surely linux will make an impact. It's all in a matter of time. It has already dominated in areas which windows cannot reach simply because of their PR issues. |
| 09:21.34 | Lava_Croft | im a Quake person, tf2 is blasphemy |
| 09:21.38 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 09:22.27 | psycho_oreos | Hah blasphemy! lol first time I've heard that religious term being used on games :D |
| 09:23.14 | Macor | psycho_oreos: apple picks up the slack |
| 09:23.27 | Macor | every year has been "the year of linux" heh |
| 09:23.35 | Lava_Croft | year of linux desktop yo |
| 09:23.55 | Lava_Croft | hey, at least MS is helping out the linux community with windows8 |
| 09:24.00 | Macor | the only major market impact of linux (if you want to call it that) would be android using a linux kernel heh |
| 09:24.04 | psycho_oreos | Macor, *shrugs* I somewhat beg to differ. I think Apple is still trying to maintain its hold on the marketshare. |
| 09:24.44 | psycho_oreos | was thinking moreso about the likes of other embedded devices including CPE routers. |
| 09:24.50 | Lava_Croft | http://quakeone.com/~files/7_bm7.jpg |
| 09:24.52 | Lava_Croft | team fortress! |
| 09:25.13 | Macor | maybe. but then ahain osx is just a mach kernel using a fbsd base with a somewhat crap wm |
| 09:25.27 | Macor | yeah... that too but you dont notice it as much |
| 09:25.33 | *** join/#maemo larrfed (~larrygtt3@108.160.203.7) |
| 09:25.44 | Macor | but that isnt a real end user using it type of deal |
| 09:25.55 | psycho_oreos | heh bit of TF decal : |
| 09:25.57 | psycho_oreos | :P |
| 09:26.31 | psycho_oreos | I was moreso thinking about that recent news on how Apple decided to piss some people off with that Breaking Bad TV series. |
| 09:26.41 | Macor | with the exception of ubuntu and rh... linux is a bit niche |
| 09:26.50 | *** join/#maemo marainein (~net@2001:388:608c:6cb5:285b:6b38:1a3:ac24) |
| 09:27.13 | psycho_oreos | Also iPhone 5 using Nano-SIM or whatever its called, and a brand new connector named Thunderbolt or whatever it is. |
| 09:27.40 | Macor | no company has put out a linux box for consumer use and has had success with it |
| 09:27.51 | psycho_oreos | There's probably a large proportion of web servers running linux, alas that gets ignored. |
| 09:28.10 | psycho_oreos | They can't profit on a software that is free :p |
| 09:28.13 | Macor | that isnt end use either ;) |
| 09:28.24 | Wizzup | Macor: I do not believe that that is true |
| 09:28.26 | Macor | sure they can |
| 09:28.26 | Macor | with the oem savings |
| 09:28.31 | psycho_oreos | Its no different than how Apple treats its "hackintosh" base. |
| 09:28.54 | psycho_oreos | No but it still is something one can brag about :p linux being everywhere else. |
| 09:28.55 | Macor | Wizzup: heh. im sure there are plenty of stats on it |
| 09:29.11 | Wizzup | I think there's several companies selling ubuntu laptops |
| 09:29.17 | Wizzup | There's huge stores in china selling ubuntu laptops |
| 09:29.27 | Wizzup | And the dell sputnik? laptop also sold quite well |
| 09:29.35 | Wizzup | And there's all the android devices |
| 09:29.39 | Wizzup | which are also linux based |
| 09:29.43 | Macor | and i bet it only amounts to a small % of overall sales in comparison to a win or apple box |
| 09:29.44 | psycho_oreos | Dell at one stage also offered linux preinstalls iinm. It only happened in US sadly. |
| 09:29.53 | Wizzup | psycho_oreos: I can still get a laptop with ubuntu preinstalled from dell |
| 09:29.56 | Wizzup | and I live in the EU |
| 09:29.59 | *** join/#maemo dreamer (~henk@melange.soleus.nu) |
| 09:30.10 | Wizzup | oh well |
| 09:30.19 | Macor | does it change the price of the unit? |
| 09:30.25 | Wizzup | Yes |
| 09:30.34 | Macor | by how much? |
| 09:30.38 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup, heh news to me, though these days I prefer a non-branded laptop instead. I hate how the majority of the brands still stick with mainstream crap. |
| 09:31.01 | Wizzup | Macor: I don't know. 60? |
| 09:31.22 | Macor | i'm just saying. overall linux sales probably amount to like 1% |
| 09:31.23 | psycho_oreos | You're essentially not paying M$ loyalty fee. |
| 09:31.30 | Wizzup | psycho_oreos: also not for office, etc |
| 09:32.02 | Macor | and im sure a lot of it still has to do with unsupported hardware |
| 09:32.07 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup, yeah mainly because they doubt linux's viability for business usage. |
| 09:32.07 | Macor | like iphones heh |
| 09:32.19 | drathir | Lava_Croft: better than port direct make games like rage dropping directx... |
| 09:32.23 | Macor | or having to shop for a specific scanner |
| 09:32.31 | Macor | and hope sane doesnt suck with it |
| 09:33.06 | Lava_Croft | games like Rage actually nearly dropped opengl |
| 09:33.11 | Lava_Croft | in favor of directx:) |
| 09:33.12 | Macor | psycho_oreos: plus most cos are institutionalized on exchange |
| 09:33.23 | Macor | and tbh there isnt a real better local alternative |
| 09:33.45 | Macor | zimbra was probably the closest until it got totally fked up |
| 09:33.51 | drathir | amospalla: not sure if they see % gamers on linux maybe they think about linux users more seriously... |
| 09:34.47 | Macor | i doubt gaming has that big of an impact nowadays |
| 09:34.53 | amospalla | drathir: I hope they do |
| 09:35.05 | Macor | devs are stopping on their pc games |
| 09:35.10 | Lava_Croft | they are? |
| 09:35.12 | Macor | like 2k and ea |
| 09:35.19 | Lava_Croft | 2k and ea |
| 09:35.23 | psycho_oreos | Macor, which heavily depends on one's beliefs :p to me I'm sure most other manufacturers frown upon the likes of linux was most likely to do with bribing. Have a look about 2 years ago (or wait, even less). In Australia, you see computer advertisments with <insert_shop_name_or_manufacturer_name> recommending windows <latest_version_here> |
| 09:35.25 | Macor | no nba2k or madden for pc heh |
| 09:35.26 | Lava_Croft | when are the last games they released that were good |
| 09:36.04 | Lava_Croft | i dont mind companies like 2k and ea leaving the PC space |
| 09:36.04 | Macor | heh.. just saying. there is quite the sports games cult |
| 09:36.08 | Lava_Croft | let them dump their crap on the consoles |
| 09:36.24 | drathir | not better is more popularised that people still not informed that better alternatives to winscary, but great for w8 ppl maybe looks for alternatives much more... |
| 09:36.32 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-93-219.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 09:36.33 | Macor | i feel bad for nintendo |
| 09:36.37 | Macor | wiiu is a bust |
| 09:36.45 | Macor | devs already abandoned it |
| 09:36.50 | Macor | it isnt viable |
| 09:37.22 | Macor | pretty soon it will be ms and sony and thats it |
| 09:37.56 | Lava_Croft | dont say so hard that nintendo is gone |
| 09:38.01 | Lava_Croft | people said that countless times about nintendo |
| 09:38.08 | Macor | and it is nintendo's fault. they released it without many of their franchise games ready |
| 09:38.14 | Lava_Croft | like nokia, its a company over a 100 years old, it aint going away anytime soon |
| 09:38.36 | psycho_oreos | Though nokia will become small and probably niche, like sega. |
| 09:38.50 | Macor | sega doesnt make consoles heh |
| 09:38.58 | psycho_oreos | They _used_ to. |
| 09:39.03 | Macor | but i guess nokia doesnt make operating systems |
| 09:39.07 | Macor | :) |
| 09:39.21 | psycho_oreos | They still do make consoles, but not for the consumer-end market. |
| 09:39.35 | Macor | i guess |
| 09:39.44 | psycho_oreos | nokia, mind you was making varied stuff before it became a mobile/cell phone manufacturere. |
| 09:39.48 | psycho_oreos | s/re/r/ |
| 09:39.51 | drathir | opengl have better graphics more realistic and less performance requitments than directx... |
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| 09:40.20 | psycho_oreos | nokia boots was notably one of the things nokia made back then. |
| 09:40.30 | Macor | dx has to middle man it |
| 09:40.45 | Wizzup | oh, dx is dying alright |
| 09:41.07 | Macor | doubt it... devs are institutionalized on the apis |
| 09:41.26 | psycho_oreos | can only imagine bribery from it. |
| 09:41.27 | Macor | nokia boots? lol |
| 09:41.33 | Wizzup | They used to make wheels too |
| 09:41.34 | *** part/#maemo dreamer (~henk@melange.soleus.nu) |
| 09:41.41 | psycho_oreos | Macor, check wikipedia if in doubt. |
| 09:41.48 | Macor | do they make gym shoes? |
| 09:41.48 | psycho_oreos | They made other things as well.. |
| 09:41.58 | Wizzup | Macor: ah... I see... how can I program in Direct3D for iOS and Android? Or even window mobile? |
| 09:41.58 | Macor | i want some nokia gym shoes heh |
| 09:42.02 | psycho_oreos | I dunno, doubt it. |
| 09:42.03 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@212.255.29.205) |
| 09:42.08 | Wizzup | Or on the web? |
| 09:42.51 | Macor | Wizzup: that is irrelevant when you are making a game like world of warcraft heh |
| 09:43.11 | Wizzup | I don't think so. We're talking about ``future'' platforms, where windows has no place |
| 09:43.19 | Wizzup | and since windows is the only platform that offers d3d... |
| 09:43.26 | Macor | like xb1? |
| 09:43.35 | Wizzup | yes |
| 09:44.52 | psycho_oreos | *rolls eyes* world of warcraft... reminds me of how devastating MMORPG can be. *recalls an anime title featuring MMORPG game*. |
| 09:45.48 | drathir | pay x time for win all the time the same thing with changed layout only to lie ppl look other its something new... We also need ppl with migration to linux like i do... |
| 09:46.34 | psycho_oreos | drathir, don't forget that they try to force it down people's throats. |
| 09:47.21 | Macor | haha |
| 09:47.51 | drathir | Lava_Croft: nokia will go down with pact of fa*e devil mean m$... |
| 09:47.57 | Lava_Croft | yeah |
| 09:48.02 | Lava_Croft | because MS is so different from other companies |
| 09:48.05 | Lava_Croft | that you have to write m$ |
| 09:48.15 | Lava_Croft | get over it, sonny |
| 09:48.23 | Lava_Croft | all those companies are just as bad |
| 09:48.30 | Lava_Croft | nokia isnt in any way better or worse than MS |
| 09:48.36 | Lava_Croft | its a good match |
| 09:49.02 | Lava_Croft | all those people crying about how MS is brining nokia down, while it was actually Finnish Nokia leaders that brought nokia down |
| 09:49.12 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aacz65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 09:49.14 | Lava_Croft | and handed it over to an ex-MS employee |
| 09:49.47 | psycho_oreos | I think MS conveniently has S in their name, hence could be labelled as money centric :P |
| 09:49.59 | Lava_Croft | yeah, because other companies are not money centric |
| 09:50.03 | Lava_Croft | they are in it for the good of the world |
| 09:50.04 | Lava_Croft | right? |
| 09:50.19 | psycho_oreos | I didn't imply that |
| 09:50.24 | Lava_Croft | its so silly to single out MS |
| 09:50.41 | Iridos | psycho_oreos, yes... that only either the mass storage-mode or the device itself can have access to the disk is a nuisance. still seems easier to me than looking up the IP of phone and/or desktop in the 192.* network and then doing ssh/scp. could of course pin the IP in the dhcp server at least at home... and run some dynamic dns thing for at uni... but always been to lazy to set any of those up. |
| 09:50.51 | psycho_oreos | I was just saying it was rather convenient for MS to have S in it. |
| 09:52.02 | psycho_oreos | Iridos, I just setup as static IP. Much easier when doing USB networking. |
| 09:54.01 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure Sony also have bad customers labelling Sony as Sory. |
| 09:54.02 | Iridos | maybe. can't do that at uni, though, there'd be bound to be conflicts... or the routers could just refuse to route packets from the wron ip altogether |
| 09:54.45 | psycho_oreos | If you are using USB networking and you only have one device that uses USB networking, There'd be no conflicts. |
| 09:54.49 | drathir | Lava_Croft: is little better because makeing pretty good stuff include and before e51 phone after they phone was a joke... Microsoft all the time do this for money... Even apple wich dont like too but is better than M$ because if good remember ppl who buy system can make upgrade to new version with little fee not full without choice... |
| 09:55.50 | psycho_oreos | USB networking only exists between mainly a computer and the device via USB. If you are using a hub or have multiple devices relying on USB networking then sure it would be more complicated as they cannot share the same subnet. |
| 09:56.04 | Lava_Croft | yeah nokia wasnt doing it for money! |
| 09:56.24 | drathir | Lava_Croft: M$ isnt good only is a monopolistic company where other os hard to fly higher... |
| 09:56.31 | psycho_oreos | E.g. having multiple N900 plugged into computer and all setup to use PC Suite Mode which is just an alias to use USB networking. |
| 09:56.39 | Iridos | don't have usb networking... the desktop is on the wireless itself, so is the phone (and the sim is with a plan without data... or prohibitively expensive data). never saw a point |
| 09:57.40 | psycho_oreos | The whole point of USB networking could also be used to allow the device to use host's network. Whereby the computer provides the internet/intranet access and the N900 access through it via NAT. |
| 09:58.02 | psycho_oreos | It's just a little more fancy than setting up for just mass storage mode. |
| 09:58.40 | drathir | again thing should be only avaible buy clean computer kits not with os installed that also will be change sytuation if ppl see win and linux 10 or more times cheeper... |
| 09:58.44 | psycho_oreos | You use the same cable to do other things as well.. you can even make your N900 as the one with internet and have PC connecting through it. There's myriads of things you can do with USB networking. |
| 09:59.09 | Lava_Croft | drathir: if you think MS is different than Nokia, you are a dreamer |
| 09:59.13 | Lava_Croft | its your right to dream, so have fun ! |
| 09:59.50 | psycho_oreos | Inevitably I think people are dumb and lazy. If a computer without an OS preinstalled, most people will panic and wonder what the hell is going on and what's with a flashing cursor after a line full of capital letters. |
| 10:00.34 | psycho_oreos | ~usb-networking |
| 10:00.34 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, usb-networking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/usb-networking |
| 10:00.44 | psycho_oreos | Iridos, ^ |
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| 10:02.47 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@212.73.74.28) |
| 10:02.48 | drathir | Lava_Croft: but in my opinion nokia in past make good solid products but microsoft all the time jokeing from ppl who dont have really alternatives in that old times... |
| 10:03.08 | Lava_Croft | where nokia was good in the past and crap now |
| 10:03.12 | Lava_Croft | MS is good now and was crap in the past |
| 10:03.17 | Lava_Croft | again, a good combination, those two |
| 10:03.44 | Lava_Croft | im not sensitive to fanboism |
| 10:03.49 | psycho_oreos | Not to mention there's antitrust built up against MS. Don't forget that point as well. |
| 10:03.55 | Lava_Croft | if its a company in the game to make money, its not to be trusted |
| 10:04.00 | Lava_Croft | wether its nokia, google, MS, or whatever |
| 10:04.14 | amospalla | is rescueOS fsck unreliable as stock maemo? |
| 10:04.27 | amospalla | as stock maemo's fsck? |
| 10:04.51 | drathir | psycho_oreos: yes true but ppl will be see how expensive is microsoft and near is other os much more cheaper wich one will be chose ? |
| 10:04.52 | psycho_oreos | Aren't they the same version? *shrugs* |
| 10:05.06 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@g231222229.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:05.07 | amospalla | AFAIK, stock maemo fsck is not very reliable |
| 10:05.07 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@ip-89-177-125-57.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 10:05.15 | amospalla | I was told here |
| 10:06.01 | psycho_oreos | drathir, It doesn't boil to that imo. There's also people who also believes paying software is a must, because without paying its like there's no binding trust between the two parties. Sad but inevitable. |
| 10:06.43 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I heard that stock fsck was really old, outdated. It also doesn't really help when it comes to flash devices. |
| 10:07.48 | psycho_oreos | There's also people who get slack.. once they become accustomed to one thing, they tend to stick to the old saying,"You can't teach old dog new tricks.". |
| 10:07.58 | *** join/#maemo jon_y (~enforcer@115.134.71.1) |
| 10:10.28 | drathir | psycho_oreos: that also can be true... In past microsoft was only one choice in company use now that changed and also bigger companies decide to migrate on linux os that good thing for me that the ppl see alternatives and good sides of changes to much cheap solutions... |
| 10:10.54 | psycho_oreos | I also partially agree with what Lava_Croft said, nokia is also evil but it was really their own fault to begin with that they ousted their own CEO in favour of ex-Microsoft staff to be their CEO. This in turn, turned nokia upside down. |
| 10:11.32 | psycho_oreos | drathir, there's always that sentimental/reluctance factor which I believe is the most unsettling causes of why people tend to stick to mainstream stuff. |
| 10:14.41 | drathir | yes that also nokia bad that choice microsoft, but if they do bad phones maybe think to implement bad os... But i think maybe microsoft offer financial help to nokia beacme more monopolistic os and nokia chose microsoft than decide to develop linux one... |
| 10:16.13 | drathir | oh i mean microsoft will help nokia to microsoft beacme more monopolistic one os on the phones... |
| 10:17.11 | psycho_oreos | Sadly regardless of the outcome, the sales figures speak for themselves. |
| 10:17.37 | Lava_Croft | its a conspiracy!!!~ |
| 10:17.39 | kerio | psycho_oreos: fyi, i'd avoid the stock mke2fs |
| 10:17.43 | psycho_oreos | Also speaking of TF2 and Mac vs PC (yes I know this is now old news) but I can't help thinking about this: http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/e/e2/Turrets_and_i_m_a_pc.jpg |
| 10:17.46 | kerio | cssu updated it, now it's ok |
| 10:18.34 | psycho_oreos | kerio, nice! well I guess I'm covered in that case. I have had CSSU-Testing enabled for awhile now and just recently put on CSSU-Thumb. |
| 10:20.00 | drathir | not conspiracy but more like lets help nokia why not we take more from this help and nothing to lose... Anyway that one dont really work sell isnt so great... |
| 10:21.25 | Lava_Croft | and thats special and noteworthy because? |
| 10:21.28 | psycho_oreos | It was probably what nokia's board of directors want as well.. to see nokia act like a sinking ship. Mind you they really needed to axe some of their product lines but I personally think they've made the wrong choices. |
| 10:21.31 | Lava_Croft | because its MS, right? |
| 10:21.48 | Lava_Croft | OPK just ruined Nokia |
| 10:22.00 | psycho_oreos | OPK? |
| 10:22.21 | Lava_Croft | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olli-Pekka_Kallasvuo |
| 10:23.26 | psycho_oreos | Ahh yeah the ousted CEO. |
| 10:25.15 | Lava_Croft | people hate on Elop for doing what is natural for Elop |
| 10:25.19 | drathir | one of the thing, other if microsoft isnt good on pc will be isnt good on phones... Why cpu usage on idle is much more on windows than linux? On the phone that should be too one good that arm procesors can almost shutdown the cores... |
| 10:25.20 | Lava_Croft | while OPK is the one really to blame:) |
| 10:26.03 | Lava_Croft | drathir: ever used a windows phone device? |
| 10:26.14 | psycho_oreos | Its sort of hard to justify the blame on OPK when at the time OPK was CEO and it was high time to introduce maemo platform. |
| 10:26.18 | Lava_Croft | for all the shit thats in there, windows phone is very lightweight and fast |
| 10:26.23 | drathir | the ideologic of linux one os is more closer to me than windows that a common always for me that linux > windows... |
| 10:26.25 | Lava_Croft | much more so than androidn and ios |
| 10:26.35 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: not just that |
| 10:26.44 | Lava_Croft | under OPK is was kind of decided that nokia should focus on feature phones |
| 10:26.45 | jon_y | drathir: System Idle Process taking up most of the cpu time! :) |
| 10:26.52 | Lava_Croft | it was* |
| 10:27.06 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, aka N-series vs E-series? |
| 10:27.12 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: cheaper even |
| 10:27.20 | Lava_Croft | under his lead they also ignored the iphone until it was too late:) |
| 10:27.25 | drathir | Lava_Croft: yes using with wm that horrible to use and change something... |
| 10:27.50 | drathir | mean windows mobile |
| 10:28.00 | Lava_Croft | windows mobile is deprecated since a couple of years |
| 10:28.33 | Lava_Croft | windows phone might lack features and app, but the OS itself is un-MS nice |
| 10:28.35 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, though N900 was a little late in a bid to rival against iPhone. It nonetheless made an impact in the aftermath, even niche in impact (to me) its noteworthy. |
| 10:28.42 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: internal struggles |
| 10:29.12 | Lava_Croft | it should have released much sooner |
| 10:29.18 | Lava_Croft | according to the stuff written about it |
| 10:29.27 | Lava_Croft | actually n800 orso should have had the gsm radio |
| 10:29.32 | Lava_Croft | instead of wait for n900 |
| 10:29.42 | jon_y | n800 wasn't gsm? |
| 10:29.45 | Lava_Croft | its just what happens in a big company where you have several teams competing against each other |
| 10:29.57 | kerio | the n810 was wimax, but that was it |
| 10:30.01 | kerio | no gsm |
| 10:30.07 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, at the same time the same thing could be said how OPK was promoted to CEO. Had that been a mistake to begin with, its even more worse how the sales figures shows that n9 (being the burning platform) outsold lumia phones. |
| 10:30.07 | Lava_Croft | symbian team apparently was scared of OSSO |
| 10:30.17 | Lava_Croft | so they pushed hard to not get a GSM radio into the n800 |
| 10:30.29 | jon_y | means I can't use even voice in Europe? |
| 10:30.29 | Lava_Croft | also, Symbian team always got the awesome hardware |
| 10:30.36 | psycho_oreos | jon_y, there was a hack someone did I believe on N810 to make it have phone capabilities. |
| 10:30.38 | Lava_Croft | OSSO had to do with shit subcontractors |
| 10:30.52 | drathir | jon_y: on linux cpu usage is much lower on idle than on windows also fan works and temp of cpu is different... |
| 10:31.10 | jon_y | drathir: CPU Idle Process :) |
| 10:31.11 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: N9 probably outsold it because of all the hype around it, i think |
| 10:31.20 | Lava_Croft | 'the last real nokia' bla bla:) |
| 10:31.32 | Lava_Croft | a lot of stuff around the N9 is just blabla from people who dont even have an N9 |
| 10:31.40 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, even though there was hardly any marketing for it to begin with. |
| 10:31.40 | Lava_Croft | in reality, its lovely hardware and a crippled unfinished OS |
| 10:31.41 | jon_y | I do not consider the N9 as a successor to N900 |
| 10:31.48 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: there was, just not from the usual channels:) |
| 10:31.50 | jon_y | it was an iphone clone |
| 10:31.59 | Lava_Croft | clone is too harsh |
| 10:32.07 | Lava_Croft | its a different way of looking at the iphone |
| 10:32.14 | Lava_Croft | cloning is what android did |
| 10:32.30 | Lava_Croft | N9 really tried to redefine certain things, and succeeded at some |
| 10:32.32 | jon_y | they're all clones, all touch screen and no hard keyboard |
| 10:32.38 | Lava_Croft | that makes it a clone? |
| 10:32.41 | jon_y | Android just had more clones |
| 10:32.48 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I personally believe they (nokia) deliberately crippled it in both sales (as a failed attempt) and as a consumer-end product (in a bid to widen the gap between developers vs end-users). |
| 10:32.48 | Lava_Croft | fulltouch = clone? |
| 10:32.59 | Lava_Croft | you are being way too friendly on apple now |
| 10:32.59 | jon_y | yes, and the icons array |
| 10:33.06 | Lava_Croft | but the icon array was way older |
| 10:33.10 | Lava_Croft | ever owned a Palm device? |
| 10:33.18 | Lava_Croft | I had that icon array before the year 2000 |
| 10:33.23 | Lava_Croft | on my Palm IIIxe |
| 10:33.25 | psycho_oreos | had a Palm m505. |
| 10:33.38 | jon_y | yes I owned a series 60 phone, it had an icon array too |
| 10:34.15 | jon_y | though I can't help that when everything is put together, it behaves nearly the same as an iphone |
| 10:34.43 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 10:34.48 | jon_y | not being kind to apple |
| 10:34.58 | jon_y | I don't have any idevices after all |
| 10:34.59 | Lava_Croft | my n9 doesnt behave like my wife's iphone at all |
| 10:35.11 | psycho_oreos | Its more symbian than iphone imo. Symbian had this strict sense of signed install files which was what they tried to push onto the "meego instance" n9. |
| 10:35.12 | jon_y | just that all the phones these days look the same |
| 10:35.14 | Lava_Croft | just holding it in your hand and you know its different |
| 10:35.23 | Lava_Croft | iphone being a cold device |
| 10:35.26 | Lava_Croft | while the n9 is warm |
| 10:35.40 | jon_y | the iphone talks back :) |
| 10:36.17 | Lava_Croft | http://calculators.torensma.net/files/images/palm_iiix.jpg |
| 10:36.18 | drathir | Lava_Croft: symbian for me s60v3 was the great one... New one not be that good i think... |
| 10:36.19 | Lava_Croft | pre-y2k |
| 10:36.25 | Lava_Croft | <3 |
| 10:36.33 | jon_y | I had S60 v1 |
| 10:36.40 | Lava_Croft | i only had a 5510 before the n900 |
| 10:36.42 | jon_y | I was sad when apps were no longer supported |
| 10:37.00 | Sysaxed | Nokia E70 - greatest symbian device! |
| 10:37.03 | jon_y | 6630, had constant mysterious reboots |
| 10:37.12 | Lava_Croft | nokia sent my a n8 once |
| 10:37.13 | jon_y | once while I was texting |
| 10:37.13 | Sysaxed | just because of the keyboard |
| 10:37.15 | Lava_Croft | it was a nightmare |
| 10:37.18 | psycho_oreos | I had n95-1, that phone pissed me so much that I would have decimated it had it not been one software that kept me sane. |
| 10:37.19 | Lava_Croft | me* |
| 10:37.42 | Lava_Croft | just all buy a Jolla |
| 10:37.47 | Lava_Croft | its the sanest thing to do |
| 10:37.49 | Lava_Croft | also the right thing! |
| 10:37.52 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 10:37.53 | Sysaxed | here is very funny article about e70 :DD http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone |
| 10:38.07 | jon_y | I need to travel to another country to get one :( |
| 10:38.20 | psycho_oreos | would rather get N950 anyday over Jolla :p |
| 10:38.28 | jon_y | too :) |
| 10:38.29 | Lava_Croft | n950? |
| 10:38.31 | Lava_Croft | are you silly? |
| 10:38.33 | psycho_oreos | hardware keyboard ftw. |
| 10:38.35 | Lava_Croft | so what |
| 10:38.40 | Lava_Croft | its crap HW with an unfinished OS |
| 10:38.42 | drathir | how about iphone vs n9 hardware are similar? |
| 10:38.50 | Lava_Croft | n950 will probably have HW failures before anything |
| 10:38.51 | jon_y | hardware keyboards are best keyboards |
| 10:39.09 | Lava_Croft | the screen on the n950... ouch |
| 10:39.12 | psycho_oreos | The differences lies in personal preferences :p |
| 10:39.24 | drathir | n70 have amazing camera... |
| 10:39.26 | Lava_Croft | i dont see how an N9 with hw keyboard would be better:) |
| 10:39.31 | Lava_Croft | its still that weirdo harmattan stuff |
| 10:39.34 | psycho_oreos | so? N900 has some hardware issues. Nothing wrong. |
| 10:39.39 | Lava_Croft | but n900 has maemo5 |
| 10:39.44 | Lava_Croft | infinitely better than harmattan |
| 10:39.56 | jon_y | yes, and .deb files too |
| 10:40.06 | jon_y | .deb > .rpm :) |
| 10:40.11 | Lava_Croft | i couldnt really care less about the package manager |
| 10:40.14 | drathir | kb nightmare is e52 in my opinion... |
| 10:40.59 | psycho_oreos | Yeah open-kernel harmattan maybe. I still like/prefer newer devices to *still* have hardware keyboard. I have had my dose with n9 amongst a few android phones, not quite my taste I'm afraid. If Jolla remains to have no hardware keyboard, I will simply not buy it. |
| 10:41.36 | Lava_Croft | for jolla to release a device with hw keyboard, they do need to sell enough of their first device |
| 10:41.50 | Lava_Croft | hw keyboards are a nice market |
| 10:42.02 | Lava_Croft | er |
| 10:42.03 | Lava_Croft | niche* |
| 10:42.26 | psycho_oreos | Call me old school, but that's how I roll.. I want hardware keyboard from now on for any phones/devices. I get frustrated everytime when I couldn't simply do certain things on touchscreen. |
| 10:42.32 | psycho_oreos | Yeah niche but that's how I am. |
| 10:42.36 | Lava_Croft | have fun finding one |
| 10:42.56 | Lava_Croft | i also prefer HW keyboards, but im also a realist |
| 10:43.01 | psycho_oreos | Indeed, but not likely that I'll regret. |
| 10:43.07 | Lava_Croft | most folks dont want a HW keyboard, so manufacturers dont really make em |
| 10:43.25 | drathir | too only hw kb one phones... |
| 10:43.28 | psycho_oreos | Yeah the majority doesn't but that's because (partially) of iPhone style. |
| 10:43.35 | Lava_Croft | thats because most folks just dont need it |
| 10:43.44 | Lava_Croft | the onscreen keyboards are good enough |
| 10:43.50 | psycho_oreos | No, they just think it adds un-needed bulk. |
| 10:43.55 | Lava_Croft | most people dont have to do cd ~/.config/randomapp |
| 10:44.06 | Lava_Croft | for them, it IS unneeded bulk:) |
| 10:44.27 | psycho_oreos | Most people will too not want to know how their device works. They only care if it works and if it doesn't work they'll simply ask why. |
| 10:44.36 | psycho_oreos | Its inherently how lazy average people are. |
| 10:44.45 | psycho_oreos | Nothing more than a herd of white sheep. |
| 10:44.45 | drathir | for me the great one kb have BB... |
| 10:44.47 | Lava_Croft | its not about laziness |
| 10:44.52 | psycho_oreos | No it is. |
| 10:44.52 | Lava_Croft | am i lazy when i dont care how my car works? |
| 10:44.57 | psycho_oreos | laziness and ignorance. |
| 10:44.59 | Lava_Croft | but i just want to use it to drive from A to B? |
| 10:45.22 | Lava_Croft | so for me to not be lazy in your eyes, i should spend time to find out how each of the products i own works? |
| 10:45.29 | Lava_Croft | most people just dont have the time for that you know |
| 10:45.30 | psycho_oreos | And to get ripped off by shady mechanics because you aren't apt with it. |
| 10:45.38 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that's how people are. |
| 10:45.43 | Lava_Croft | thats because its not needed |
| 10:45.52 | Lava_Croft | you dont need to know how a microwave works in order to use it |
| 10:45.58 | Lava_Croft | has zero to do with being lazy |
| 10:45.58 | psycho_oreos | No its because there's a market for those who don't care. |
| 10:46.05 | Lava_Croft | no, its because its not important |
| 10:46.21 | psycho_oreos | Then you find people wondering why things break and then they realised.. oh! its in the manual.. |
| 10:46.25 | Lava_Croft | if someone wants to find out, they will |
| 10:46.31 | psycho_oreos | yeah. |
| 10:46.35 | Lava_Croft | but saying that people are lazy for not wanting to find out, thats just broken logic |
| 10:46.39 | psycho_oreos | Not much different from what I said :p |
| 10:47.01 | Lava_Croft | except you dismiss people |
| 10:47.02 | psycho_oreos | I actually meant laziness and/or ignorance. Not just laziness on its own. |
| 10:47.16 | *** join/#maemo arcean_ (~arcean@aacy8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 10:47.18 | Lava_Croft | i guess im ignorant then for not caring how our car works on the inside |
| 10:47.26 | Lava_Croft | and with me the entire population of this world, including yourself |
| 10:47.26 | drathir | when i have symbian device i can move all the files and app config to clean install good to know how something works... |
| 10:47.33 | Lava_Croft | you dont know how each of your products work on the inside:) |
| 10:47.45 | psycho_oreos | Not unless if you are interested. |
| 10:47.56 | Lava_Croft | interest is something that you should not force onto people |
| 10:48.03 | psycho_oreos | Hence those wanting to know will have differing prefences. |
| 10:48.04 | Lava_Croft | saying they are lazy and ignorant for not having your particular interests |
| 10:48.06 | Lava_Croft | thats just broken |
| 10:48.28 | psycho_oreos | Ahh but that's what manufacturers think, no? to aim for the majority and ignore the niche? |
| 10:48.37 | Lava_Croft | thats because they have to make money |
| 10:48.47 | Lava_Croft | niche markets in general dont make you a lot of money |
| 10:48.56 | Lava_Croft | thats why they are a niche market:) |
| 10:48.59 | drathir | but why disallow interested ppl do that like it is on android eg. |
| 10:49.16 | Lava_Croft | why demand they do it like you want? |
| 10:49.19 | psycho_oreos | Its not like niche market will always remain being a niche market. |
| 10:49.31 | Lava_Croft | hw keyboards will remain niche |
| 10:49.46 | Lava_Croft | devices get bigger screens, onscreen keyboards grow in size and usability |
| 10:49.49 | Lava_Croft | nothing much you can do about it |
| 10:49.57 | Lava_Croft | besides maybe force people HW keyboards down their throats |
| 10:50.00 | Lava_Croft | and say thats the right thing |
| 10:50.07 | Lava_Croft | but i dont think you want that:) |
| 10:50.38 | korhojoa | why are hw keyboards niche? |
| 10:50.46 | Lava_Croft | typing |
| 10:50.47 | korhojoa | they're awesome! |
| 10:50.53 | psycho_oreos | I'd rather laugh at people who struggle to make use of a device when their digitizer is broken, or their screen is broken. That they can no longer use touch screen. |
| 10:50.54 | Lava_Croft | oh, niche not nice |
| 10:50.57 | Lava_Croft | they are awesome indeeds |
| 10:50.59 | Lava_Croft | indeed* |
| 10:51.05 | Lava_Croft | but thats just how we think about it:) |
| 10:51.14 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: thats just silly to say |
| 10:51.24 | Lava_Croft | laughing at poeple for that reason just silly |
| 10:51.28 | Lava_Croft | you know what your logic is? |
| 10:51.34 | Lava_Croft | imagine you sell vacuum cleaners from door to door |
| 10:51.39 | Lava_Croft | you ring the bell of my door and i open the door |
| 10:51.39 | drathir | but good to eg few models have hw kb like bb do that because know a lot of ppl like hw kb and dont think to abadon? mean stop out the hw kb ... |
| 10:51.45 | Lava_Croft | instead of starting to talk about good your vacuum cleaner is |
| 10:51.49 | korhojoa | i have a e7 with a broken screen. hdmi still works though |
| 10:51.55 | Lava_Croft | you start to mock me for buying the bacuum cleaner i own currently |
| 10:51.59 | Lava_Croft | and start to tell me how horrible it is |
| 10:52.12 | Lava_Croft | if you think thats an effective sales pitch |
| 10:52.16 | Lava_Croft | you are wrong |
| 10:52.39 | Lava_Croft | this is exactly the sales pitch as tried out by the entire linux community for the past 20 years orso |
| 10:52.48 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, neither does the former case that you mentioned would work most of the time :p remember that the law of the averages still apply. |
| 10:52.54 | Lava_Croft | point at something not Linux and start to talk about how horrible it is |
| 10:53.01 | Lava_Croft | wether its software, hardware, whatever |
| 10:53.24 | *** join/#maemo odin_ (~Odin@2a01:348:261:32:211:11ff:fe6b:2483) |
| 10:53.46 | psycho_oreos | Didn't microsoft actually at one stage did that? point and laugh how crap linux was? or wait microsoft had better strategy at the time? |
| 10:54.06 | Lava_Croft | see |
| 10:54.08 | Lava_Croft | now you do it again |
| 10:54.15 | Lava_Croft | its hard to get of a habit, aint it |
| 10:54.26 | Lava_Croft | instead of talk about why your thing is so good |
| 10:54.31 | Lava_Croft | you start to talk about why the other thing is so bad |
| 10:54.34 | psycho_oreos | I was stating what I read in the news. |
| 10:55.01 | drathir | linux isnt perfect but dont advertise like windows the perfect one... |
| 10:55.27 | psycho_oreos | Or are you deliberately ignoring what I said that I saw what microsoft did in the past? maybe they hid it from you? |
| 10:56.02 | Lava_Croft | so wait |
| 10:56.06 | Lava_Croft | i dont get this |
| 10:56.11 | Lava_Croft | because MS did it, its good for you to do it? |
| 10:56.15 | Lava_Croft | or what? |
| 10:57.06 | psycho_oreos | I didn't say it was good for me to do it just because microsoft did it but I'm sure it was done before and that the methods these days employed by the same mob are no different to what they were. |
| 10:57.24 | psycho_oreos | In other words, simplying implying, there's no "magic bullet" for a perfect advertisment. |
| 10:58.15 | psycho_oreos | The case _always_ boils down to the law of averages. Regardless of _however_ you choose to tackle it. |
| 11:00.27 | Lava_Croft | a very important rule is marketing is that you don't mock your client for making a certain choice that is not the choice you would want the client to make |
| 11:00.28 | drathir | anyway other things is that linux dont advertise so much because dont have point of do that dont make a money like windows from sales... |
| 11:00.35 | Lava_Croft | we all know how MS'a anti-linux whining ended up |
| 11:00.41 | Lava_Croft | Linux rules the world except the desktop |
| 11:01.01 | Lava_Croft | and which part of linux had the most vocal 'supporters'? |
| 11:01.04 | Lava_Croft | yeah, the desktop |
| 11:01.26 | Lava_Croft | exactly the folks that constantly raged about why others were bad, instead of raging about why linux is good:) |
| 11:01.51 | Lava_Croft | if your marketing scheme doesnt allow you to inform people of the good sides of your product, you might as well just give up :) |
| 11:01.56 | psycho_oreos | Like any other fan base its more or less the same. |
| 11:02.10 | Lava_Croft | more or less, except not quite |
| 11:02.22 | Lava_Croft | linux folks, like apple folks are for different reasons overly religious |
| 11:02.25 | Lava_Croft | zealous if you like |
| 11:02.37 | Lava_Croft | this is harmful for linux |
| 11:02.54 | psycho_oreos | and it isn't harmful for Apple folks? |
| 11:02.59 | Sysaxed | (13:45:58) psycho_oreos: No its because there's a market for those who don't care. -- and it is too big :( |
| 11:03.22 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: Apple is a very special case:) |
| 11:03.26 | Lava_Croft | as we all know:) |
| 11:03.49 | Lava_Croft | i dont know many companies that can pull of the shit apple does and still be taken seriously:D |
| 11:03.50 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, yeah not so special now :p |
| 11:03.55 | Lava_Croft | oh, they still are:D |
| 11:04.09 | Lava_Croft | but yeah, its shrinking |
| 11:04.51 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178212143.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:05.10 | psycho_oreos | Sysaxed, proportions are irrelevant to this case. You don't see one embedded OS fitting for any embedded devices. |
| 11:07.45 | drathir | for now the best perfect os to discover will be that who can handle all other os not vm and can switch between them running... |
| 11:10.10 | Sysaxed | http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=veil_review |
| 11:10.14 | drathir | but this is not possible to share real resources in that way i think... |
| 11:10.19 | Sysaxed | that guy is amazing :O |
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| 11:12.39 | drathir | Sysaxed: from the name of site that should be little scare to join on that titled site... |
| 11:13.37 | drathir | Sysaxed: im joke ofc... |
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| 11:16.16 | psycho_oreos | Oh wow, I'm surprised I still get thanked for taking my frustrations out *laffs*: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1367106&postcount=47 |
| 11:20.40 | Iridos | venting steam can be useful? :D |
| 11:21.27 | Iridos | wait, there's no magic in the n900? I want me money back! |
| 11:23.59 | psycho_oreos | Too bad, you've invested in the "nokia-support-a-maemo-cause" foundation. All charitable monies are non-refundable ;p |
| 11:24.51 | Iridos | oh, and thanks for the usb-network link... will have to see if i still have a usb connector after the weekend when I plan to solder it to fix it firmly, though :P |
| 11:25.36 | Iridos | psycho_oreos, I think you're lying and it is magical... I can put it on top of a radio and the radio starts playing the songs from the n900... that's clearly magical |
| 11:26.41 | psycho_oreos | Iridos, only *cough* Apple *cough* fans would say its magical *snickers* |
| 11:27.02 | Iridos | I'm not much into fruit |
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| 11:30.03 | psycho_oreos | You naughty carnivore :p |
| 11:30.06 | Iridos | anyway, nah, they wouldn't... the guys in the shops are geniuses, not magicians, right? |
| 11:30.20 | psycho_oreos | No, they're just educated :p. |
| 11:30.28 | Iridos | I'm actually vegetarian for over 15 years now |
| 11:30.58 | psycho_oreos | A vegetarian whom doesn't like fruit? a bit rare I suppose. |
| 11:31.59 | Iridos | health stuff... I guess I like fruit but react badly to most for the last couple of years |
| 11:33.53 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* maybe a diet change is required. Not a doctor. |
| 11:34.03 | psycho_oreos | Sysaxed, just finished reading that link. LOL |
| 11:34.34 | psycho_oreos | Sysaxed, will you marry me? http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/veil_model1.jpg :D |
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| 11:39.07 | Sysaxed | hahahah :) |
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| 11:52.52 | Sysaxed | psycho_oreos: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/bfd2.gif |
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| 11:56.30 | psycho_oreos | Sysaxed, :p lol |
| 12:00.41 | Iridos | aaah |
| 12:06.06 | psycho_oreos | Any of you use ovimaps? trying to see if there's newer maps that works with N900. One of my N900 has a broken cities directory but thankfully the other seems to have a complete (outdated) version. |
| 12:06.37 | LjL-Alps | uh, aren't ovimaps maps online? O.o |
| 12:07.43 | *** part/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
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| 12:07.58 | psycho_oreos | They are but: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1333267&postcount=600 <--- sort of made me hesitant. |
| 12:08.54 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 12:09.44 | psycho_oreos | Hmm the latest post on that thread has the link to the latest hosted ones. I guess I might as well look at those. |
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| 12:19.28 | Sysaxed | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/love_animals1.jpg |
| 12:21.53 | *** join/#maemo Lithdk (bc728caa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.114.140.170) |
| 12:22.13 | Lithdk | dang that's a lot of users in the maemo chat |
| 12:27.21 | *** join/#maemo Lithdk (~daniel@188.114.140.170) |
| 12:27.26 | Lithdk | Hey |
| 12:28.34 | Lithdk | So I got a n900 from hong kong, made a post on it TMO, but I just recieved it. Put in the sim, put in the battery, put in the charger and it did a shaky thing with a dim nokia logo for a while. Now the LED is just yellow/orange'ish with a dim nokia logo and it wont boot. Do I just need to wait an hour or so for battery to charge before I can boot? |
| 12:29.15 | quackquack | reinstall the firmware? |
| 12:29.25 | quackquack | factory reset? |
| 12:29.27 | quackquack | mmmmmm |
| 12:29.29 | quackquack | no idea |
| 12:30.32 | Lithdk | well this is my first smartphone and the "updating the firmwire" is kinda lacking in the how-to department |
| 12:31.41 | psycho_oreos | ~flashing |
| 12:31.41 | infobot | from memory, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 12:31.45 | Lithdk | the wiki page shows one flasher command while the guy on youtube uses three. First to flash rootfs, then emmc, then rootfs again |
| 12:32.02 | *** join/#maemo arcean (~arcean@aacy8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:32.13 | Lithdk | with -f -R at the third rootfs flash |
| 12:32.33 | psycho_oreos | Judging from what you wrote initially, I'm guessing your N900's battery was really flat (or at least around ~5% charge). |
| 12:33.00 | Lithdk | Aight, I'll just leave it in for a while |
| 12:33.42 | psycho_oreos | Do you have another phone/device that is capable of charging BL-5J and/or you happen to have another BL-5J that has more than 5% charge? |
| 12:34.44 | Lithdk | Nope |
| 12:35.43 | psycho_oreos | Hmm :/ I guess in that case its best to hope that the device does not go into bootloops whilst trying to boot up normally. |
| 12:36.24 | Lithdk | I think it has. It's doing a shaky thing with the LED coming on and off and nokia logo coming on and off |
| 12:37.07 | psycho_oreos | If you see nokia logo showing up and then it resets (showing the exact same thing after a few seconds). Then that's bootloop. |
| 12:37.18 | psycho_oreos | That's going to be a little problematic. |
| 12:38.19 | Lithdk | Fantastic. Should I try flashing? |
| 12:38.54 | psycho_oreos | Flashing won't help, because 1) your battery level is too low, 2) even if you force flashing, you will only leave it in its bricked state (not fully bricked though). |
| 12:39.13 | Lithdk | So I just need to get a charged battery? |
| 12:39.18 | Wizzup | start with that |
| 12:39.44 | psycho_oreos | I was contemplating on whether you can flash only the kernel and see if it will boot with standard kernel in a bid to get it into normal charging state and try to get the battery to a decent power level. |
| 12:40.29 | psycho_oreos | A charged battery is the most ideal, then a phone or device that can charge BL-5J is preferrable. Attempting to flash only the kernel portion would probably be the last resort. |
| 12:41.38 | Lithdk | Alright, I have a phone repair store down the road, can ask them to test with a BL-5J that is charged. If it boots Im good and just need an external battery charger? |
| 12:42.37 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:43.20 | psycho_oreos | It is hard to predetermine what is actually causing the bootloop. If its more than just a mismatch kernel issue, you need to reflash kernel, if its mismatched kernel modules, you will need to reflash the whole device (and at least 30% charge is required). If it can boot with another battery then yeah external charger maybe needed. |
| 12:44.50 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, you wouldn't happen to own a n95 would you? |
| 12:45.05 | Lithdk | Nah, this is my first real smartphone |
| 12:45.43 | psycho_oreos | *nods* MohammadAG once mentioned before that n95 can charge BL-5J batteries. I happen to own one and verified that it can charge BL-5J. |
| 12:46.26 | Lithdk | Not really an option :/ |
| 12:46.43 | psycho_oreos | Yeah its hard to say, but I guess it might not be a bad idea to buy a substitute battery whilst you are at that phone repair store. The previous owner probably tortured that poor N900 before selling it. |
| 12:47.11 | Lithdk | Aight I will try the store :-) Thank you for quick response |
| 12:47.25 | psycho_oreos | There is another way but I personally don't think such an idea would be wise, if its not done properly you may risk any issues arising from it. |
| 12:47.42 | MohammadAG | I used it as a spare battery charger for quite a while :P |
| 12:48.02 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, all the best! hopefully you can get that N900 to work (also hoping that it is a genuine N900 as well). |
| 12:48.19 | psycho_oreos | o.O he responds :D lol hehe. |
| 12:49.57 | psycho_oreos | Speaking of it, I have a few BL-5J that I may hook it up to {re-}charge, most fake and maybe one genuine BL-5J |
| 12:51.10 | *** join/#maemo valeriusL (~valerius@85.26.180.154) |
| 12:51.22 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, ping! |
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| 13:01.19 | *** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 13:05.14 | Lava_Croft | DT-33 from Nokia |
| 13:05.22 | Lava_Croft | cheapo external charger |
| 13:05.42 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@192.194.199.34) |
| 13:06.04 | Lithdk | Im back :P |
| 13:06.22 | psycho_oreos | The verdict? |
| 13:06.38 | Lithdk | So the guy the phone repair store determined it was a software error and he couldn't help me because the software so old and no longer supported and referred me to a store a 3 hour drive away |
| 13:06.48 | psycho_oreos | I just stumbled upon your thread heh, been handing out "Thanks!" to a few good posts. |
| 13:06.57 | Lava_Croft | how did he determine that |
| 13:06.57 | Lithdk | Hehe |
| 13:07.13 | psycho_oreos | Also he doesn't happen to have a spare BL-5J? |
| 13:07.24 | Lithdk | So I asked the hot front-desk girl to ask the guy in the back if I just needed to flash it and she said that he said "Yeah but the software isnt supported anymore" |
| 13:07.52 | Lithdk | Well I didn't really get to see 'cos I was interacting with the girl who was going back to the backroom |
| 13:08.15 | Lithdk | But he determined it was a software error, so guess he must've checked the battery |
| 13:08.52 | psycho_oreos | Yet he couldn't offer to sell/lend you a BL-5J so you could see the result yourself.. I smell somewhat shady business here. |
| 13:09.08 | Lava_Croft | or just uninterested |
| 13:09.16 | Lava_Croft | time spent vs money gained |
| 13:09.47 | Lava_Croft | order a spare battery from polarcell orso |
| 13:09.51 | Lava_Croft | for 12euros |
| 13:09.57 | Lava_Croft | 1500+mah |
| 13:10.10 | Lithdk | Oh, european company? |
| 13:10.29 | Lava_Croft | berlin |
| 13:10.42 | Lava_Croft | i live in NL, so it was quite handy |
| 13:10.44 | psycho_oreos | One thing I can say for certain (I'm sure other N900 owners, whom bought their N900 brand new) the N900 from factory would at least be half charged, not fully drained. That's just despicable. |
| 13:11.11 | Lithdk | Can't find a link to PolarCell, only amazon |
| 13:11.18 | psycho_oreos | Yeah there was a German shop (or at least German site) that I saw was getting commended on chat here. |
| 13:11.25 | Lithdk | Yeah it's from china so probably fake or refurbished. |
| 13:12.18 | Lithdk | but a read a few reviews on them, other than printed text on the box and on the phone case the phone should be pretty much the same |
| 13:12.51 | psycho_oreos | The last thing you want to hear is that its a fake N900. First of all I don't think there'll be anyone able to help you with it as it will be running hacked symbian OS. |
| 13:13.48 | Lithdk | Oh. |
| 13:14.02 | psycho_oreos | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p2837_Original-Nokia-Akku-Li-Ionen-1-320-mAh-BL-5J.html <--- here was the shop that I heard two "thumbs up" for. |
| 13:14.35 | Lava_Croft | http://www.ebay.nl/itm/PolarCell-Akku-Nokia-X6-00-5230-5800-N900-C3-00-BL-5J-5228-XpressMusic-XM-Accu-/370597537396?pt=DE_Handy_PDA_Akkus&hash=item564955a674&_uhb=1#ht_1112wt_1139 |
| 13:14.40 | psycho_oreos | Yes. There was also a youtube video about it, trust me you wouldn't want to end up with fake N900. Its like throwing money into bin hoping to find gold. |
| 13:14.40 | Lava_Croft | i got mine via ebay |
| 13:14.45 | Lithdk | http://www.cellephone.de/en/cell-phone-accessories/polarcell-battery/nokia/polarcell-battery-li-ion-for-nokia-5800-xpressmusic-5230-c3-00-n900-x6-8gb-16gb-32gb-asha-200-201-replaced-bl-5j/a-1165/ <----- How about that? |
| 13:14.52 | kwork | hey does anyone know can you reset / read n900 secuirty code when the device is already locked ? |
| 13:14.57 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: thats the same battery |
| 13:15.04 | Lava_Croft | its a BL5J clone at around 1500mah |
| 13:15.19 | Lava_Croft | free shipping too |
| 13:15.26 | Lithdk | Okay, I will try that. Thanks for all the help. |
| 13:15.27 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 13:15.31 | Lava_Croft | no problem |
| 13:15.39 | Lava_Croft | those polarcells are i think the easier ones to get for europeans |
| 13:15.41 | psycho_oreos | kwork, depends but in most case I doubt it. |
| 13:15.57 | kwork | psycho_oreos: or atleast get the data out from there before reflashing |
| 13:16.25 | kwork | managed to lock my damn device while drunk, and i have no idea of the security code (tried the default ones) |
| 13:16.27 | psycho_oreos | kwork, if you happen to be able to boot into rescueOS or something like that, otherwise no. |
| 13:17.18 | kwork | psycho_oreos: hmmmz okey thanks ill check it out, description seems promising |
| 13:17.43 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, I sometimes wonder what else would that seller chuck in with that N900. For giving you that much extra work sometimes it might be interesting to try and dig in (yes I know it sounds dirty, but..) |
| 13:17.58 | psycho_oreos | kwork, if you don't know what it is, chances are you don't have it installed which means no chance. |
| 13:18.46 | kwork | psycho_oreos: yeah most likely i dont have it installed, i was hope-ing maybe i can just boot off from mmc with it or smt |
| 13:19.02 | Lithdk | Well, he has a lot of very good reviews on eBay (not that I know if that means anything, first time eBay user) and is a "top-rated seller". Also a lot of people have had positive returns with him. |
| 13:19.11 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t27QMN5AH2c <-- exact same video that I saw.. this is the horror story you don't want to see. |
| 13:19.28 | psycho_oreos | kwork, doubt it.. |
| 13:19.34 | Lithdk | I think he's a pretty good guy just trying to run a store catering to the outside world as best as he can with his chineese ways of retailing |
| 13:20.17 | kwork | i guess i have to launch an human run bruteforce on it then :P |
| 13:20.44 | Lava_Croft | psycho_oreos: |
| 13:20.51 | Lava_Croft | friend of mine bought about 15 Java iphones in china |
| 13:20.56 | Lithdk | Mine doesnt show that logo. I had a bright white screen _once_ with a blue nokia logo in the middle. No hands and it was in the other mode, vertical/horizontical/whatever it is |
| 13:20.57 | Lava_Croft | they look like iphones, but run some funny java OS |
| 13:21.06 | Lava_Croft | awesome devices |
| 13:22.37 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, *shrugs* there are some good sellers but there's dime a dozen shady sellers who'll happily take your money instead thinking you are some fool. Call me a skeptic but I'd try to get the purchase verified through physical means before I lay down my hard cash. |
| 13:22.58 | psycho_oreos | kwork, pretty much inevitably, that will take lots of time I'm afraid. |
| 13:23.03 | Lithdk | I can just put in a paypal dispute |
| 13:23.36 | psycho_oreos | Lava_Croft, yeah fake symbian (and now androids).. *ugh* gives me the ****** thinking about clones. |
| 13:23.36 | Lithdk | I'm fairly certain I can get my money back if the phone is not as described |
| 13:23.59 | Lava_Croft | no, that wasnt symbian |
| 13:24.05 | Lava_Croft | it was some java shit i never saw in my life |
| 13:24.11 | psycho_oreos | *nods*, caveat emptor is all I can say. |
| 13:24.43 | psycho_oreos | Never really heard of Java being used on fake phones. I guess that is also now a viable option *vomits*. |
| 13:25.08 | Lava_Croft | this was several years ago |
| 13:25.53 | Lithdk | So when I take the charger out and hit the power button I get a bright white display with a blue nokia logo in the middle. Then it shuts down. Putting the charger in puts it in a reboot loop |
| 13:26.21 | Lava_Croft | at least the nokia logo sounds legit:D |
| 13:26.37 | psycho_oreos | Ahh, may have been roughly around the time where symbian OS were hacked to make it work on cloned devices as well I suppose.. or older o.O still yeah it sickens me the whole thought. |
| 13:26.40 | Lithdk | It looks nothing like the fake symbian nokia logo from youtibe |
| 13:27.41 | Lithdk | I will order the other battery and test it out. I have a 14 days to return the phone for a full refund |
| 13:27.47 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeAoqSIste4 |
| 13:27.50 | Lava_Croft | that shows n900 boot |
| 13:27.53 | psycho_oreos | It also seems like it acts like a real N900 would act I suppose as well. The real N900 would have three LED "bulbs" to indicate device status. If you see amber and green light (maybe green for just a short second) then I guess that would be the real LED it has. |
| 13:27.55 | Lava_Croft | versus some other phone, but meh |
| 13:28.16 | Lithdk | Yeah mine looks like that, also with the blue light |
| 13:28.31 | Lava_Croft | you really want a charged battery and reflash it |
| 13:28.35 | Lava_Croft | basically the only way to be sure |
| 13:29.27 | Lithdk | Lava_Croft did the battery you ordered come charged? |
| 13:29.38 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 13:29.48 | Lava_Croft | but i also charged it myself in external charger |
| 13:29.53 | Lava_Croft | but it did boot my n900 before that:) |
| 13:29.56 | DrCode | hi all |
| 13:29.58 | DrCode | how can I play or had folders into playlist |
| 13:30.04 | psycho_oreos | I'm personally moreso curious to see what the seller left with the device seeing as how they sold the N900 flat to you. |
| 13:30.14 | DrCode | maemo default player sort all my songs |
| 13:30.28 | DrCode | also I can't see utf8, I need to convert my song or somthig? |
| 13:30.53 | Lava_Croft | the top menu in media player lets you choose between how to display |
| 13:30.53 | Lithdk | Im ordering a new battery now. As long as it gets here within 14 days I got enough time to make a dispute |
| 13:30.58 | Lava_Croft | songs, albums, artists, genres |
| 13:31.12 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: it was here within a week iirc |
| 13:31.17 | Lava_Croft | most time was taken up by tranferring the money |
| 13:31.22 | DrCode | yes |
| 13:31.30 | DrCode | but no folder option |
| 13:31.32 | DrCode | I want to play 3 folders |
| 13:31.35 | Lava_Croft | there is none |
| 13:31.42 | DrCode | I see |
| 13:31.46 | psycho_oreos | OMP I think might be faster at adding a whole bunch. Not sure about "folders" though. |
| 13:31.50 | Lava_Croft | try kmplayer |
| 13:31.56 | Lava_Croft | or just mplayer |
| 13:32.12 | DrCode | I have mplayer |
| 13:32.14 | DrCode | install |
| 13:32.16 | DrCode | ed |
| 13:33.02 | Lava_Croft | time to learn about mplayer then! |
| 13:33.10 | Lava_Croft | (which isnt here!) |
| 13:33.14 | Lava_Croft | chuckles |
| 13:33.29 | DrCode | I can't see utf-8 songs |
| 13:35.01 | psycho_oreos | It might even be fs issue. |
| 13:36.54 | Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ui3KpztUzVg |
| 13:37.02 | Lava_Croft | apart from this interview being interesting.... |
| 13:37.09 | Lava_Croft | that lawyer is a fucking living statue |
| 13:37.14 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:38.44 | Lithdk | so 15 euro for the 1500 battery and that's with shipping. seems fair |
| 13:39.03 | Lava_Croft | yeah |
| 13:39.18 | Lava_Croft | and they sent me the friendliest of emails too |
| 13:39.25 | Lava_Croft | reporting on the status |
| 13:39.34 | Lava_Croft | friendlier than usual emails of this type:) |
| 13:39.41 | Lithdk | :P Haha |
| 13:39.57 | Lava_Croft | hey, that goes a long way in such an unpersonal business |
| 13:39.57 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 13:40.21 | Lithdk | Yeah :P |
| 13:40.36 | Lithdk | Im In Denmark so shouldnt take more than a week to get if it only took a week to NL |
| 13:40.42 | Lava_Croft | yeah, cant take much longer |
| 13:41.06 | Lava_Croft | i paid by wire transfer too, paypal is faster i reckon |
| 13:41.19 | Lithdk | They already got my payment :P |
| 13:41.23 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 13:41.31 | Lava_Croft | then it will probably be sooner than with me:) |
| 13:41.35 | Lava_Croft | sooner/quicker |
| 13:41.55 | Lithdk | Would be awesome |
| 13:43.03 | Lava_Croft | rest assured, i broke my own n900 and had to wait first a week for the external charger |
| 13:43.07 | Lithdk | I'd really like a chance to try out this phone. If I find out it doesnt work I have to send it back for a refund and order a new one :P |
| 13:43.08 | Lava_Croft | then another week for the extra battery |
| 13:43.11 | Lava_Croft | and then it still didnt work! :D |
| 13:45.01 | Lithdk | aww |
| 13:45.18 | Lithdk | pretty expensive phone by then :P |
| 13:46.34 | Lava_Croft | i sent it back to nokia, got into a fight with them and ended up with double the n900s |
| 13:46.37 | Lava_Croft | so im not complaining |
| 13:47.45 | Lithdk | nice :P |
| 13:49.01 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1108831&postcount=1 |
| 13:52.10 | Lithdk | Haha awesome |
| 13:56.13 | psycho_oreos | I got some freebies whilst scavaging for any useful remnants within an already formatted fs. I'm sure someone here got a nasty shock when I wrote that I actually did that. |
| 13:56.50 | Lithdk | I got my phone charging with the PC connector right now. Dim logo nokia with yellow/orange'ish. sudo fdisk -ls and mount wont detect it. Good, bad or neutral? |
| 13:57.35 | psycho_oreos | Neutral, it wouldn't matter.. in fact kernel probably won't see anything (on PC side) because the device (N900) has not told the PC what sort of a device it is. |
| 13:57.51 | Lava_Croft | well, it might charge |
| 13:58.02 | Lava_Croft | i dont know all the silly things surround when and when not the n900 will charge |
| 13:58.06 | Lava_Croft | surrounding* |
| 13:58.11 | Lithdk | Well, that would be bad? Probably means I cant flash it either if the new battery doesnt work |
| 13:58.21 | Lava_Croft | you can |
| 13:58.28 | psycho_oreos | The first thing PC will say via dmesg is something is plugged into USB, then it goes into identification mode.. any enumerable volumes will then be made visible through dmesg and soon after fdisk -l. |
| 13:58.40 | Lithdk | Oh |
| 13:58.55 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: flashing requires you to connect a shutdown n900 to the PC via usb, while keeping 'u' pressed |
| 13:59.13 | psycho_oreos | You can't flash it normally, you could try cold flashing or something but you have to be quick and prepared with only ~5% charge. |
| 13:59.15 | Lava_Croft | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware |
| 13:59.25 | Lava_Croft | oh |
| 13:59.28 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 13:59.42 | psycho_oreos | I wasn't aware that was available I thought you could only cold flash and hope. |
| 13:59.56 | Lava_Croft | i might VERY well be wrong! |
| 14:00.09 | Lithdk | Yeah I caught that, just thought it linux would recognize it |
| 14:00.25 | Lava_Croft | i once solved bootloop by flashing pr1.2 kernel |
| 14:00.33 | Lava_Croft | after which flashing 1.3 rootfs did succeed |
| 14:00.34 | psycho_oreos | I'm pretty certain NOLO would only charge it to ~5% level. I sorta saw it happening one stage with my other N900 and I had to boot into backupmenu to force charge it. |
| 14:00.41 | Lithdk | But I still got my old phone. Gonna wait with flashing till after I tried the new battery |
| 14:01.01 | Lava_Croft | safe bet |
| 14:01.24 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.154) |
| 14:01.34 | psycho_oreos | Linux would recognise it if the other end started responding. If the other end (meaning the N900) doesn't respond, the PC will just probably continue supplying power or whatever. |
| 14:02.32 | Lava_Croft | at least there are several ways you could possible flash the n900 |
| 14:02.41 | Lava_Croft | so you arent out of options just yet |
| 14:03.12 | Lithdk | Cheers |
| 14:03.31 | psycho_oreos | Cold flashing isn't discussed but flashing kernel is viable: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_only_the_kernel_from_a_FIASCO_image_.28expert_topic.21.29 |
| 14:03.46 | quackquack | signgp can i pass my keys to x-loader? |
| 14:04.00 | psycho_oreos | ~cold-flashing |
| 14:04.04 | quackquack | lets say if i find my jtag pads/pins |
| 14:04.08 | psycho_oreos | hmm. |
| 14:04.11 | psycho_oreos | ~cold-flash |
| 14:04.20 | psycho_oreos | :/ |
| 14:04.26 | quackquack | ~open-seseme |
| 14:04.27 | jon_y | ~cold |
| 14:04.27 | infobot | cold is, like, a network sniffer lke tcpdump with support for lots of devices and protocols |
| 14:04.29 | Lava_Croft | cant infobot list topics to you in privmsg |
| 14:04.30 | Lava_Croft | oh |
| 14:04.36 | quackquack | aah |
| 14:04.42 | psycho_oreos | Yeah it probably could.. hmm |
| 14:04.44 | Lava_Croft | sesame btw:) |
| 14:05.02 | quackquack | okay whatever. ;-) |
| 14:05.03 | psycho_oreos | aha! |
| 14:05.06 | psycho_oreos | ~coldflash |
| 14:05.06 | infobot | coldflash is probably http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:34:01 (jacekowski's instructions), or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing |
| 14:05.10 | Lava_Croft | win |
| 14:05.16 | quackquack | yayyyyyyyy |
| 14:05.23 | Lava_Croft | nice, it has a proper wiki page:D |
| 14:05.40 | quackquack | my question is how on earth will i sign my god damn x-loader once i jtag? |
| 14:05.49 | Lava_Croft | Lithdk: you could try flasher -i |
| 14:05.54 | Lava_Croft | just to see if it recognizes your device:) |
| 14:05.57 | Lithdk | Yeah I just thought about that Lava |
| 14:06.08 | quackquack | because i will get my 8 channel logic sniffer. |
| 14:06.10 | Lava_Croft | funny how you dont think of silly stuff like this at first, goddamnit |
| 14:06.22 | quackquack | and then if i happen to jtag and i extract the keys. |
| 14:06.23 | Lava_Croft | flasher -i is the single command ive probably used the most with flasher |
| 14:06.32 | psycho_oreos | quackquack, I am not famililar with topics on JTAG I'm afraid.. you'll need to talk to somebody like DocScrutinizer05 (who isn't here). |
| 14:06.35 | quackquack | any idea people how will i sign x-loader? |
| 14:06.44 | Lava_Croft | doc is taking a well-earned break |
| 14:06.45 | quackquack | oh |
| 14:06.49 | Lava_Croft | and a much needed one |
| 14:06.52 | quackquack | oh |
| 14:06.55 | quackquack | my bad. |
| 14:07.10 | psycho_oreos | He was here a few days back but disappeared *shrugs* |
| 14:07.24 | Lava_Croft | he sounded like he was in need of a break |
| 14:07.32 | Lava_Croft | havent been easy times for him, concerning maemo |
| 14:07.44 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that I definitely recall, but then I saw him saying some random stuff here and there before disappearing. |
| 14:07.49 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 14:08.29 | Lava_Croft | as long as he returns refreshed |
| 14:08.33 | Lava_Croft | he is rather invaluable |
| 14:08.47 | psycho_oreos | Pali && freemangordon might be able to help (but this again is far cry as I know they mainly deal with kernel stuff, not NOLO/X-Loader let alone JTAG). |
| 14:09.24 | psycho_oreos | I think most of the core staff are rather invaluable :) |
| 14:09.36 | Pali | it is not possible to sign something new... |
| 14:09.51 | Pali | unless you know how to hack aes-256bit |
| 14:10.15 | psycho_oreos | Well there you go :) |
| 14:10.27 | quackquack | Pali, http://www.droid-developers.org/wiki/Cryptography |
| 14:10.32 | quackquack | have a look |
| 14:10.42 | quackquack | i am not interested in nolo |
| 14:10.46 | Pali | signing key of our n900 is somewhere in nokia... |
| 14:11.04 | quackquack | i need to re-sign the x-loader.bin.ift/mlo |
| 14:11.18 | quackquack | Pali, have a look at that site. it says something else. |
| 14:11.32 | Lithdk | should I run it as sudo? |
| 14:11.46 | Lithdk | error claiming USb interface. operation not permitted |
| 14:11.56 | Pali | quackquack: it that info for omap3 n900??? |
| 14:12.14 | quackquack | no |
| 14:12.26 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, yes ideally. |
| 14:12.27 | quackquack | but logic is same isnt it? |
| 14:12.56 | Lithdk | Alright :P |
| 14:13.41 | quackquack | pali it has jtag labelled. and i will try to find the jtag in n900. |
| 14:13.45 | Lithdk | printed this: "USB device found found at bus 001, device address 107. Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2204. NOLO version 1.4.14. Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0 |
| 14:13.45 | Lithdk | " |
| 14:14.02 | Pali | quackquack: I'm not doing cryptoanalyze, but somebody wrote that nokia used aes-256 encryption |
| 14:14.10 | psycho_oreos | thinks its fundamentally designed (linux is) is to only give root the access to raw hardware/interfaces. Flashing requires raw access, hence root is required. |
| 14:14.35 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, that definitely sounds like a genuine N900 :) |
| 14:14.42 | Lithdk | Hurray |
| 14:15.17 | Pali | quackquack: what I know is only how to do normal & cold flashing... |
| 14:15.20 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, I'd try flashing kernel first, see if you can get it to charge quickly in "ACT_DEAD" mode. |
| 14:15.37 | quackquack | Pali, efuse in omap3x is standard doesnt matter if nokia or motorola droid. |
| 14:15.37 | Pali | I wrote alternative cold-flasher |
| 14:15.38 | quackquack | http://www.droid-developers.org/wiki/Security |
| 14:15.46 | quackquack | Pali, i thank you for that. |
| 14:15.54 | quackquack | thats incredibly handy tool. |
| 14:16.14 | quackquack | i am going to use it to flash x-loader ;-) Pali so TIA. :-) |
| 14:16.18 | psycho_oreos | Pali is also working on 0xFFFF amongst other nifty kernel tools :D |
| 14:16.28 | Lithdk | Yeah but now that we are 90% certain it's a genuine n900, we'll wait for the charger to arrive. Got a week off work so I got time |
| 14:16.30 | quackquack | http://www.droid-developers.org/wiki/Security Pali |
| 14:16.40 | Lithdk | I mean battery* |
| 14:16.47 | Pali | yes, motorola omap boards have same structure of x-loader image |
| 14:17.26 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, *shrugs* I'd say there's no easy way to permanently brick N900. With NOLO/X-Loader, its virtually impossible to brick the device easily. So it might be an idea/incentive to maybe try kernel flashing and then cold flashing. |
| 14:17.32 | quackquack | then Pali we can change a lot of things using x-loader. |
| 14:17.49 | Pali | what do you want to change?? |
| 14:18.04 | quackquack | https://www.privatepaste.com/a4c0926924 |
| 14:18.11 | quackquack | loads of things. |
| 14:18.30 | Pali | gpsign is for GP devices (not HS) |
| 14:18.31 | quackquack | i need to edit the config file have a look at the privatepaste.com |
| 14:18.39 | quackquack | oh |
| 14:18.44 | quackquack | shit |
| 14:18.59 | Pali | but jacekowski had signing SW |
| 14:19.14 | quackquack | cant i have it? |
| 14:19.15 | Pali | somwhere on internet is windows version |
| 14:19.15 | kerio | Lithdk: there's no way to softwarebrick a n900 |
| 14:19.17 | *** join/#maemo FlameReaper (~assassin@203.106.65.176) |
| 14:19.19 | Lithdk | Alright, can I flash combined without flashing fiasco? |
| 14:19.24 | Pali | will try to find it |
| 14:19.32 | kerio | even losing CAL is not a big deal |
| 14:19.41 | quackquack | please let me know. Pali |
| 14:19.52 | kerio | bluetooth kinda stops working because it doesn't know its MAC, but you can restore that |
| 14:20.24 | quackquack | Pali, i am trying to port coreboot. |
| 14:20.29 | quackquack | thats why. |
| 14:20.34 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, I guess its doable, probably no harm done if it fails. You just go back to square one and have to try something else. What I'm trying to imply is that there might be a way to get your N900 to charge that included BL-5J up without having to wait for the spare battery to arrive. |
| 14:21.01 | Pali | quackquack: link for that SW was posted here on irc |
| 14:21.06 | Pali | so try to find in chanlog |
| 14:21.14 | Pali | exe suffix |
| 14:21.32 | quackquack | okay one sec. |
| 14:22.16 | Lithdk | Yeah but this is my first smartphone and I've never done any rom flashing either, so really I need to know what commands to type in and what image. I have RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin downloaded |
| 14:22.28 | psycho_oreos | Pali && quackquack, I don't know if this is related but could it be on the same subject in regards to NOLO patcher? I have the TMO link here. |
| 14:22.49 | Pali | no |
| 14:22.53 | Pali | nolo is not signed |
| 14:23.05 | quackquack | yes nolo is not signed. |
| 14:23.08 | Pali | it can be changed with Hexeditor directly |
| 14:23.30 | psycho_oreos | Ahh my bad :/ I thought what I found might have helped, the OP did reference thanks to jacekowski though. |
| 14:23.40 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_only_the_kernel_from_a_FIASCO_image_.28expert_topic.21.29 <-- pretty much what you need. |
| 14:24.10 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, essentially you need the FIASCO image, not the combined iinm. Let me check.. |
| 14:24.11 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 14:24.21 | Lithdk | Okay, will get the fiasco |
| 14:24.29 | Lithdk | but it's just that 5 line section I need to follow? |
| 14:24.39 | Pali | psycho_oreos: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/#maemo.2012-01-08.log.html#t2012-01-08T15:48:32 |
| 14:24.40 | kerio | ~0xffff |
| 14:24.43 | kerio | mmh |
| 14:24.44 | kerio | ~pali |
| 14:24.44 | infobot | well, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
| 14:24.57 | Lithdk | and change it so it works with my .deb flasher instead |
| 14:24.58 | kerio | Pali: do you reckon that 0xFFFF works on os x? |
| 14:25.11 | Pali | kerio: no idea |
| 14:25.18 | kerio | what does it use? libusb? |
| 14:25.22 | quackquack | i cant find it. |
| 14:25.24 | Pali | kerio: if you have c99 compiler and libusb it should work |
| 14:25.47 | kerio | libusb is installable |
| 14:25.47 | *** part/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 14:25.58 | Lithdk | there are 2 fiasco image |
| 14:26.01 | Pali | but it using some functions which are available on with GNU_SOURCE |
| 14:26.11 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R <--- that but you substitute <firmware-image> with the actual filename. |
| 14:26.16 | psycho_oreos | Pali, interesting, thanks! |
| 14:26.38 | quackquack | Pali, i cant find it. |
| 14:26.46 | quackquack | can you help me find it? |
| 14:26.56 | Lithdk | Top fiasco image or bottom? e.g. "eMMC content 1.2009.41-1" or "eMMC content 10.2010.13-2" |
| 14:27.20 | Pali | quackquack: looks like jacekowsi deleted it :-( |
| 14:27.27 | kerio | Pali: libusb, libusb-compat, or libusbx? |
| 14:27.38 | quackquack | oh. |
| 14:27.39 | Pali | kerio: libusb version 0.something |
| 14:27.45 | quackquack | so its lost for ever? |
| 14:27.52 | Pali | quackquack: looking on my hdd |
| 14:27.57 | kerio | ok, so you need libusb-compat |
| 14:27.58 | quackquack | okay |
| 14:29.40 | psycho_oreos | quackquack, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-01-08.log.html <---- its around 15:00 hrs. What jacekowski mentioned. |
| 14:29.42 | ecc3g | has anyone found any situation that libusb-compat doesn't work but libusb0 works? |
| 14:29.53 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, hang on looking for the file. |
| 14:31.11 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin <--- if you have already mentioned that then I apologise. Its been a long while since I last looked at the filenames. The one that says "VANILLA" == eMMC image not FIASCO. |
| 14:31.52 | quackquack | http://maemo.jacekowski.org/tools/CSST_SDP3430_v2_5_Binary_Release.zip? |
| 14:31.55 | quackquack | aah i see. |
| 14:32.19 | Lithdk | Alright it's okay. I will try "sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R" if it bricks it bricks :P |
| 14:32.35 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, it shouldn't brick (in theory). |
| 14:33.17 | psycho_oreos | Looks like there's no mirrors of that file and accessing the link to zip is 403 (Forbidden). |
| 14:33.36 | Lithdk | http://skeiron.org |
| 14:33.42 | Lithdk | has all the files |
| 14:33.56 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, not for that particular file quackquack mentioned :) |
| 14:34.06 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.186.10) |
| 14:34.08 | Lithdk | Oh sorry thought it was a message to me :P |
| 14:34.19 | quackquack | :-D |
| 14:34.22 | quackquack | i got it now. |
| 14:34.30 | quackquack | thanks! mate! ;-) |
| 14:34.41 | kerio | Pali: :< |
| 14:34.47 | kerio | Pali: disk.c:27:22: error: linux/fs.h: No such file or directory |
| 14:35.19 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:35.37 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, heh my bad, just bit of crosstalk and yeah it got tangled up. |
| 14:35.44 | psycho_oreos | quackquack, the file? |
| 14:35.52 | quackquack | yep. |
| 14:36.03 | quackquack | someone very helpful donated. |
| 14:36.12 | quackquack | now i can happily play around. |
| 14:37.48 | psycho_oreos | *nods* be interesting if you document it on w.m.o though :D |
| 14:38.17 | Lithdk | Hah now it wont detect the phone, not with flasher-3.5 -i either |
| 14:38.23 | Pali | kerio: you can disable disk operations which are used only on n900 |
| 14:38.30 | Pali | so then you will not need linux/fs.h |
| 14:38.34 | kerio | neat |
| 14:38.46 | Pali | just comment disk_dump_raw() function |
| 14:39.00 | Pali | comment code, function must be there |
| 14:39.06 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, what does the screen show? |
| 14:39.16 | kerio | Pali: nothing can go wrong with this! :D |
| 14:39.17 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, also what did the flasher tool said last? |
| 14:39.44 | Lithdk | dim lighted nokia logo. But my terminal on linux just says "suitable usb device not found" |
| 14:39.52 | kerio | Pali: cal_init_file |
| 14:39.56 | Pali | kerio: no because disk is not implemented |
| 14:40.02 | Lithdk | before flasher-3.5 -i atleast recognized it |
| 14:40.10 | kerio | same thing? |
| 14:40.33 | Pali | cal is not needed for desktop version |
| 14:40.41 | Pali | cal is used only on n900 version |
| 14:40.58 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, hmm, so its permanently stuck on dim lighted nokia logo? no reboots or anything? |
| 14:41.17 | Lithdk | now I killed terminal and it goes into reboot loop |
| 14:41.23 | Pali | quackquack: here is info about X-Loader: http://web.archive.org/web/20120513054814/http://and-developers.com/partitions:isw |
| 14:41.40 | Pali | this is same for all omap3 HS boards |
| 14:41.59 | Lithdk | but it did not flash, so still safe to wait for battery. I the flashing the kernel later too |
| 14:42.11 | kerio | oh come on this is bullshit |
| 14:42.13 | kerio | os x has no strnlen |
| 14:42.15 | Pali | it looks like that website is down, thanks webarchive for backup |
| 14:42.20 | quackquack | aah one second mate. |
| 14:42.24 | kerio | Pali: what is this i don't even |
| 14:42.34 | Lithdk | I will try flashing the kernel later too* |
| 14:42.37 | Pali | kerio: you need POSIX system |
| 14:42.45 | Pali | and strnlen is part of POSIX |
| 14:42.59 | kerio | come on, posix 2008 |
| 14:43.10 | kerio | there's also no memmem |
| 14:43.20 | kerio | and no usb_detach_kernel_driver_np apparently |
| 14:43.33 | Pali | yes, I wrote that is needed _GNU_SOURCE |
| 14:43.34 | kerio | i don't think this can work on osx ._. |
| 14:43.41 | Pali | usb_detach_kernel_driver_np is not needed |
| 14:43.45 | Pali | you can see #ifdef |
| 14:43.54 | quackquack | thanks man. |
| 14:44.03 | Pali | it is needed only for systems which support detaching kernel driver from usb device |
| 14:44.12 | quackquack | now one terrible question. i wonder how coreboot will fit in here. |
| 14:44.13 | psycho_oreos | Pali && quackquack: I saw this instead: webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ocBmTvXGqJIJ:and-developers.com/partitions:isw |
| 14:44.14 | quackquack | hmmmmmm |
| 14:44.18 | kerio | well, apparently this libusb lies like crazy |
| 14:44.21 | kerio | :s |
| 14:44.27 | quackquack | psycho_oreos, yes i am reading it mate. |
| 14:44.40 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, hmm that's unusual, you flashed kernel and it gets into reboot loop after being frozen. |
| 14:44.51 | psycho_oreos | quackquack, *nods* ahh ok. |
| 14:45.00 | Lithdk | nah it didnt flash the kernel because it didnt recognize the usb device |
| 14:45.09 | Pali | kerio: btw strnlen_s is part of C11 |
| 14:45.19 | Lithdk | flasher-3.5 didnt recognize it |
| 14:45.26 | Pali | so you can use C11 compiler and change strnlen to strnlen_s |
| 14:45.28 | quackquack | thanks mate psycho_oreos :-) |
| 14:45.36 | kerio | Pali: gcc 4.2 |
| 14:45.41 | kerio | so yeah |
| 14:45.41 | kerio | :s |
| 14:45.55 | Lithdk | I think I did the thing right, executed the command and connected the phone to the usb while holding down "U" on the phone. |
| 14:45.56 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, in that case I'd say the battery died off (low power as the potential cause). You need to give it sometime (preferrably when the device tries to boot but fails but not when amber light is permanently lit). |
| 14:46.31 | psycho_oreos | quackquack, *nods* no worries. Whole thing somewhat interests me (even though I really don't have a single clue about it all). |
| 14:46.37 | *** join/#maemo valeriusL (~valerius@85.26.180.144) |
| 14:46.38 | kerio | Pali: anyway, why memmem and not strstr? |
| 14:46.55 | Pali | strstr checking for NULL term |
| 14:46.57 | Pali | memmem not |
| 14:47.01 | kerio | *NUL |
| 14:47.06 | kerio | but ok |
| 14:47.27 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, that would be right yes. If did right you will see on the top right corner there will be that USB symbol. If it sticks there, it means you have done it right. Though you must remember that you have very short time for flashing. This was why I said you must be prepared. |
| 14:47.29 | Pali | are you lazy to write your version of memmem? :-) |
| 14:47.51 | Pali | KMP is easy and fast :-) |
| 14:48.07 | psycho_oreos | If you didn't do it correctly (and this is only supposedly), N900 will stop showing that USB symbol and reboots. |
| 14:48.18 | Lithdk | Oh didnt check for that symbol this time. But I'll let it charge and watch an episode of chuck. You have been most helpful and patient with me Psycho, thank you. We'll see if it will flash after charging for a while :-) |
| 14:50.46 | Pali | kerio: or rolling hash function (e.g. rabin-karp) is also fast :-) |
| 14:51.11 | kerio | naive bruteforce or bust |
| 14:51.46 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, I hate to somewhat say that charging for awhile may not help. The device will try to boot whenever it has around 5% charge, it will keep retrying until the battery runs out of juice in which it will fall back into emergency charge mode. Once in emergency charge mode, the amber light stays on for about 5 minutes then it tries to reboot into normal/ACT_DEAD mode and will keep repeating iinm. |
| 14:51.59 | *** join/#maemo andre103 (~andre@ip-89-176-96-40.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 14:52.11 | Pali | kerio: KMP has smaller code only few lines |
| 14:54.34 | Lithdk | Aha. So I have to unplug it just before it tries to reboot into normal/ACT_DEAD mode and flash the kernel? |
| 14:54.38 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 14:56.15 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre__@wikimedia/aklapper) |
| 15:00.13 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, no no, there's no need to unplug. When the device tries to boot (you will see it will show nokia logo repetitively), you quickly press and hold the 'U' key until USB symbol sticks on top right, as soon as its that (and you still have USB cable intact) you quickly tell PC to flash the kernel. |
| 15:00.48 | psycho_oreos | That command iirc also tells flasher to force the device into reboot as soon as it has finished flashing (which in this case its only kernel). |
| 15:01.05 | Lithdk | aha |
| 15:03.43 | psycho_oreos | I'm pretty sure the amber light won't stick on and the screen won't show nokia logo without backlight (which is just dim light). It may have a brief second or so of amber LED on. |
| 15:04.08 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 15:04.26 | psycho_oreos | In either case when you encounter that, the device is no longer in emergency charge mode, but again N900 will without fail constantly retry to boot kernel properly until the battery runs flat. |
| 15:06.43 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.144) |
| 15:10.48 | Lithdk | Im trying, but it wont seems to catch the usb logo. Tried several times :P Will keep on |
| 15:12.26 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 15:17.14 | psycho_oreos | That doesn't sound particularly good :/ |
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| 15:19.14 | Lithdk | Well when I get a charged battery I should be able to do it, yes? |
| 15:20.47 | psycho_oreos | Yeah, most likely more properly. |
| 15:21.53 | psycho_oreos | is still certain there has to be a way to make N900 charge battery without needing some other battery/method. |
| 15:26.21 | *** join/#maemo githogori (~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:27.04 | Lithdk | My brother lives a few minutes away, he has a Samsung galaxy, will that charge it? |
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| 15:34.00 | Lithdk | Alright I flashed the kernel, didnt boot though, just the white screen with blue nokia |
| 15:34.54 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.167.75) |
| 15:36.49 | psycho_oreos | Not sure, somewhat doubt it :/ I happen to have access to Samsung Galaxy S II once. I do remember seeing three copper pins on the battery which may look identical to BL-5J but unsure of what individual posts are. |
| 15:37.22 | psycho_oreos | I was reading up old IRC logs, interestingly cold flashing works when you have low battery. |
| 15:37.43 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 15:40.02 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD298F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:41.12 | Lithdk | Yeah it just seems very technical |
| 15:43.01 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 15:44.22 | psycho_oreos | I somehow don't think cold flashing is also necessary. Though I can't imagine how or why the N900 will no longer go into flashing mode once you try to flash only the kernel. Unless somehow the bootloader got nuked (in which flasher-3.5 -i won't yield anything). |
| 15:52.08 | Lithdk | If nolo is the bootloader the flasher-3.5 -i recognized it so I think it works |
| 15:53.39 | *** join/#maemo valeriusL (~valerius@85.26.180.148) |
| 15:53.53 | *** join/#maemo Sourav (~user@106.67.199.226) |
| 15:55.56 | Sourav | hi all I installed bme replacement can any tell me how to fix it |
| 15:56.00 | Sourav | postimg.org/image/klwu23rl5/ec328ce5/ |
| 15:56.21 | Sourav | no data or battery is not caliberated |
| 15:56.36 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~quassel@44.22.206.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 15:59.21 | psycho_oreos | I don't think nolo == bootloader. There's a couple of segments to bootloader. |
| 16:01.05 | kerio | Sourav: calibrate bq27k |
| 16:01.16 | kerio | ~bq27k |
| 16:01.22 | kerio | mmh, no factoid for it? |
| 16:01.26 | kerio | ~useless |
| 16:01.26 | infobot | ACTION starts crying and hides from kerio in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 16:01.28 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 16:02.55 | Sourav | yes kerio whats that bq27k |
| 16:03.30 | kerio | bq27200 is the battery fuel gauge chip |
| 16:03.49 | kerio | to calibrate it, you have to charge the battery fully, then let it discharge until a certain threshold |
| 16:03.57 | kerio | ~search bq27k |
| 16:04.03 | kerio | mmmh |
| 16:04.13 | kerio | ~bq27kcalibration |
| 16:04.19 | kerio | goddammit i'm fairly sure that i had it somewhere |
| 16:05.31 | kerio | oh well |
| 16:05.37 | kerio | ~calibratebq27200 |
| 16:05.44 | kerio | infobot: calibratebq27200 is http://acehack.de/~kerio/calibratebq27200 |
| 16:05.44 | infobot | okay, kerio |
| 16:05.47 | kerio | Sourav: http://acehack.de/~kerio/calibratebq27200 |
| 16:06.01 | *** join/#maemo ketil_k (~ketil_k@ti0042a380-1324.bb.online.no) |
| 16:06.10 | kerio | (it only works if you have the bme replacement installed) |
| 16:06.37 | kerio | (not just the battery applet, that's irrelevant) |
| 16:06.52 | Sourav | ya i have bme installed |
| 16:07.18 | Pali | Sourav: just charge battery to FULL, then discharge it until bme replacement will shutdown phone and then charge battery again |
| 16:07.25 | kerio | mmh |
| 16:07.31 | kerio | that requires manual intervention! |
| 16:07.37 | kerio | this one's automatic |
| 16:07.46 | kerio | plug your n900 in before going to bed, set backlight at max |
| 16:08.10 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@wlan-141-23-94-167.tubit.tu-berlin.de) |
| 16:08.24 | Sourav | then |
| 16:09.24 | kerio | anyway |
| 16:09.28 | kerio | what Pali said is correct |
| 16:09.46 | kerio | and it makes things a lot more easy |
| 16:10.04 | NIN101 | ~rescueos |
| 16:10.04 | infobot | methinks rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ |
| 16:10.28 | Sourav | yep thanks kerio and Pali you were helpful to me |
| 16:10.36 | Wizzup | hmmm.... think the mmc just died |
| 16:10.39 | Wizzup | let's reflash and see |
| 16:11.27 | psycho_oreos | NIN101, added that extra factoid where you were having issues with. You need to address it as "foo is also blah"/ |
| 16:11.39 | NIN101 | psycho_oreos: thx. |
| 16:11.47 | psycho_oreos | nw |
| 16:12.06 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, still no hope? :/ |
| 16:12.20 | Sourav | well what happened to Doc ?? |
| 16:12.31 | psycho_oreos | On holiday. |
| 16:12.33 | Lithdk | No Ive been trying with some intervals |
| 16:13.33 | Lithdk | If it doesnt work with the new battery I'll return it for a full refund and try to get a hold of a used one on maemo.org |
| 16:13.40 | Sourav | ohh |
| 16:14.33 | psycho_oreos | Damn, I'd try to fix it if I were living in EU. Pisses me off how my suggestion fails to work. |
| 16:15.19 | *** part/#maemo Sourav (~user@106.67.199.226) |
| 16:16.19 | Lithdk | Well you are very helpful. Im sure it will work. if you were here with the device I think you'd catagorize it as a battery issue too. |
| 16:16.32 | Lithdk | Feels like a battery issue and there have been reports of crappy chineese batteries |
| 16:17.32 | psycho_oreos | It's somewhat hard to say really, it could also be the way they configured it somehow made the device chew up all the remaining power and arrive at your doorstep flat. |
| 16:18.06 | psycho_oreos | It's a little beyond me why they need to customise it in the first place to the destination country and yet not even charge the battery. |
| 16:18.32 | Lithdk | Seems pointless yes, especially when most people reflash it right away |
| 16:19.22 | psycho_oreos | Those in the know would, others maybe not so much. |
| 16:19.26 | kerio | infobot: rescue-os is also http://acehack.de/rescueOS/ |
| 16:19.26 | infobot | kerio: okay |
| 16:19.29 | kerio | ~rescue-os |
| 16:19.29 | infobot | it has been said that rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/, or http://acehack.de/rescueOS/ |
| 16:19.39 | kerio | :3 |
| 16:19.50 | psycho_oreos | ~botsnack |
| 16:19.50 | infobot | :), psycho_oreos |
| 16:20.59 | psycho_oreos | Lithdk, maybe let the device charge for about an hour (even though it will be somewhat futile) and try to get it into flashing mode. Then try to flash kernel. |
| 16:22.49 | Lithdk | yeah Im trying that |
| 16:22.54 | kerio | an external charger at that point is kinda required actually |
| 16:24.12 | psycho_oreos | The problem (I believe) with external charger is that you need to be watching constantly (or at least most of the time). The external charger if its not genuine BL-5J charger per se, it may overcharge and ruin the battery permanently and/or make it leak/explode/etc. |
| 16:25.13 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.190.242) |
| 16:28.03 | psycho_oreos | Technically the device would be classed as DOA. It should never be flat, it doesn't do the battery any good nor would it even benefit the device. |
| 16:28.18 | *** join/#maemo ketil_k (~ketil_k@ti0042a380-1324.bb.online.no) |
| 16:33.54 | psycho_oreos | hmm.. RescueOS seems quite interesting. If one could flash rescueOS instead in a bid to let the device fully charge. That maybe is a temporary solution. |
| 16:36.30 | kerio | psycho_oreos: you just need enough to flash, really |
| 16:36.41 | kerio | anyway, i don't think you can load rescueOS when the battery's too low |
| 16:36.56 | kerio | a simple fix would be to allow uboot to charge the battery fully |
| 16:36.58 | kerio | and flash it |
| 16:37.24 | psycho_oreos | Damn, I was hoping there would be some temporary solution. It seemed like my suggestion botched Lithdk's device up. |
| 16:37.47 | psycho_oreos | kerio, problem is I don't think Lithdk's device has uboot :/ |
| 16:37.53 | kerio | oh of course |
| 16:38.01 | kerio | at Lithdk's point the only cure is an external charger |
| 16:38.11 | kerio | Lithdk: buy another n900! |
| 16:38.13 | kerio | they're awesome |
| 16:38.27 | psycho_oreos | haha |
| 16:38.31 | Lithdk | Let's wait for my new battery first :P |
| 16:38.44 | psycho_oreos | Well... I won't deny that but lol. |
| 16:39.33 | psycho_oreos | kerio, I'm actually surprised you won't even recommend ideas such as flashing the maemo kernel instead. I'm pretty sure most kp setups would still leave omap1 kernel modules intact. |
| 16:40.08 | kerio | i thought the problem was that the battery was too low :O |
| 16:40.28 | psycho_oreos | Yeah the battery was too low but the device bootloops as well when trying to boot. |
| 16:40.42 | kerio | yup |
| 16:40.45 | kerio | and you can't flash it |
| 16:40.49 | kerio | so you can't flash anything |
| 16:40.57 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
| 16:41.16 | kerio | emergency charging doesn't bring the battery up enough to flash |
| 16:41.29 | kerio | nolo checks the battery voltage before allowing you to flash |
| 16:41.37 | psycho_oreos | I thought squeezing kernel in may help afterall it boots kernel after bootloader and secondary have done their job. |
| 16:42.11 | psycho_oreos | Although I do recall Lithdk did have some output from "flasher-3.5 -i" |
| 16:42.29 | psycho_oreos | Maybe requesting info was ok but not flash? |
| 16:42.31 | *** join/#maemo nslu2-log_ (~nslu2-log@140.211.169.184) |
| 16:42.31 | Lithdk | I had output yeah |
| 16:42.56 | kerio | probably |
| 16:43.21 | kerio | anyway, if you can flash, just reflash everything and then restore a backup |
| 16:43.21 | psycho_oreos | I also wonder how the hell would one be able to charge that flat battery if the device is going to constantly bootloop and go into emergency charge mode. Surely one doesn't need to buy that DT-44 or whatever it was. |
| 16:44.09 | psycho_oreos | I thought if one could flash from emergency charge mode, it would only hold around 5% of battery charge. Which would be highly insufficient for complete FIASCO flash. |
| 16:44.37 | kerio | psycho_oreos: if your n900 is bootlooping and the battery is too low, you're fucked |
| 16:44.55 | kerio | psycho_oreos: more than enough to load rescueOS and start a normal charge, i reckon |
| 16:44.59 | kerio | i mean |
| 16:45.15 | kerio | emergency charge is enough to go through the boot process up to bme |
| 16:45.51 | *** join/#maemo LjL-Alps (~ljl@adsl-ull-185-9.47-151.net24.it) |
| 16:45.57 | psycho_oreos | kerio, I have had a similar case with my other N900, thankfully I had dime a dozen batteries available in various states. Swapped with another battery and the device would boot up and allow normal charging. |
| 16:46.12 | kerio | mmh |
| 16:46.16 | ecc3g | my broken ac10c will bootloop if the battery is flat and won't recover from the situation, though it will charge when the phone is booted. I have another microusb charger that will recover it from flat... |
| 16:46.28 | kerio | emergency charge would've allowed you to boot, i think |
| 16:46.44 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that's true.. *shrug* just thought on a bit of hope that flashing kernel should suffice. Guess I was sorely wrong. |
| 16:46.57 | kerio | kernel doesn't do shit by itself |
| 16:47.14 | kerio | and it's a moot point, really, because emergency charge isn't enough to flash |
| 16:47.26 | psycho_oreos | no no kernel will load that bq kernel module which will then negotiate for more faster charge. |
| 16:47.34 | kerio | so if your battery is too low to flash and you can't boot enough to charge, you're fucked |
| 16:47.42 | kerio | no no kernel won't do that |
| 16:47.54 | psycho_oreos | bah. |
| 16:48.44 | LjL-Alps | so wait where does/can the thing fail between emergency charging and booting? |
| 16:48.53 | kerio | what i still haven't figured out is if nolo will let you load rescueOS if the battery is too low |
| 16:49.07 | kerio | LjL-Alps: emergency charge can charge enough to boot, but not enough to flash |
| 16:49.12 | LjL-Alps | ah |
| 16:49.20 | kerio | so if you need to reflash because you can't boot, and the battery is too low to flash, you're screwed |
| 16:49.23 | LjL-Alps | so you need to have a kernel that actually works |
| 16:49.27 | kerio | because nothing will charge the battery enough to flash at that point |
| 16:49.38 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@44.22.206.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 16:49.41 | kerio | it doesn't have to be the kernel |
| 16:49.53 | kerio | a botched optfs will also hinder booting |
| 16:50.52 | kerio | or weird stuff in preinit |
| 16:51.09 | kerio | or a botched transitions.ini that makes the n900 reboot instantly |
| 16:51.09 | LjL-Alps | i suppose having u-boot installed might help, that way you can always boot from an SD card? |
| 16:51.09 | Wizzup | Is it possible to have maemo on a sd card rather than the internal mmc? |
| 16:51.10 | *** join/#maemo DrCode (~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode) |
| 16:51.27 | LjL-Alps | i don't know, i know you can have Nemo Mobile, and i guess Android |
| 16:52.51 | Wizzup | Guess it is - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83719 |
| 16:53.09 | Wizzup | LjL-Alps: I don't think Nemo is fit for me yet. I want to try it but was scared by the feature matrix |
| 16:53.51 | LjL-Alps | heh yeah i see. i thought you were responding to the part where i mentioned recovering from an SD card |
| 16:54.07 | *** join/#maemo Mek (~quassel@kde/mkruisselbrink) |
| 16:55.45 | Wizzup | LjL-Alps: no, it appears my mmc is dead |
| 16:55.54 | LjL-Alps | :( |
| 16:55.58 | Wizzup | or rather, I didn't actually get write errors -- but all my files turned into ``Stale NFS handles'' |
| 16:56.01 | Wizzup | lol |
| 16:56.05 | Wizzup | so I'll try a reflash first |
| 16:56.09 | Wizzup | But I suspect more trouble |
| 16:56.20 | Wizzup | (fsck didn't work) |
| 16:56.41 | psycho_oreos | fsck from PC? |
| 16:56.43 | Wizzup | maybe I'll give nemomobile a try as well |
| 16:56.47 | LjL-Alps | third time i hear about the stale NFS handles thing in a couple of weeks i've been here. still unsure whether that's supposed to be a software or hardware thing though! |
| 16:56.55 | Wizzup | LjL-Alps: I mentioned it before |
| 16:58.19 | psycho_oreos | In most cases I'd say it would be hardware, if you never use NFS then its to do with taking the battery (for example) out of the device and not letting it shut down gracefully. |
| 16:58.39 | Wizzup | psycho_oreos: yes, I probably did this. |
| 16:58.47 | Wizzup | Because the N900 doesn't show when it is actually shut down. |
| 16:58.54 | Wizzup | As least not judging by the LED |
| 16:59.09 | Wizzup | bbl... |
| 16:59.12 | Wizzup | going to reflash soon |
| 16:59.19 | Wizzup | and try thumb |
| 16:59.20 | Wizzup | if it succeeds |
| 16:59.31 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.148) |
| 16:59.50 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup, DocScrutinizer05 did sort of mention this once, that once you shut down N900, you need to wait around 10-15 seconds. During that time you will see nokia logo appearing without backlight for a brief few seconds. |
| 17:00.22 | kerio | once you shut down the n900 you should check that it's turned off by tapping the power button |
| 17:00.26 | kerio | to see if the led is lighting up |
| 17:01.00 | psycho_oreos | thinks that case is relevant if your device is not in R&D mode. |
| 17:10.30 | *** join/#maemo definity (~definity@cpc6-croy21-2-0-cust289.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:17.33 | *** join/#maemo vishap (~noch@212.73.74.28) |
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| 17:38.47 | LjL-Alps | err, guess nobody uses an N810 any longer, but i'll try asking anyway... :P is there any convincing solution to the "ghost lines" problem in MyPaint? |
| 17:45.28 | Wizzup | psycho_oreos: alright, so let's hope the mmc is not damaged then |
| 17:46.32 | LjL-Alps | hah, i see libx11-whatever has been pushed to extras-devel again, docscrutinizer will be happy :P |
| 17:46.58 | freemangordon | LjL-Alps: that's another package |
| 17:47.04 | LjL-Alps | oh |
| 17:47.30 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 17:47.32 | freemangordon | libxc11-6 |
| 17:48.12 | Wizzup | ~flashing |
| 17:48.12 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 17:49.45 | *** part/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 17:51.02 | Wizzup | What was the alternative place for images / flasher? |
| 17:51.10 | Wizzup | I know it was hosted somewhere else |
| 17:51.11 | Wizzup | rechecks wiki |
| 17:52.01 | Wizzup | got it |
| 17:52.28 | LjL-Alps | i'd like to get someone to buy an N810 (or possibly N900 but N810 seems apter for that to me) for drawing... but MyPaint is a bit, uh, sketchy |
| 17:54.19 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup, was about to say skeiron. Oh well. |
| 17:55.12 | Wizzup | yes, found it |
| 17:55.48 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, got issues with hildon-home. Still on thumb version and three days uptime hildon-home shoots CPU usage through the roof and sticks it at that level. I believe some programs I opened and closed may have caused CPU to stick at 100% for a good while but now after closing ovi maps the CPU usage still reports 100%. |
| 17:56.12 | Wizzup | is going to try thumb as well |
| 17:56.27 | Wizzup | Has anyone actually verified how much ram it saves? And I assume that thumb and non-thumb mixes just fine? |
| 17:59.40 | psycho_oreos | I think everyone's mileage varies. On my case there's more swap usage compared to running non-thumb variant. Also mixes seems to be fine. |
| 18:00.45 | Wizzup | more swap? |
| 18:00.48 | Wizzup | that's weird |
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| 18:02.50 | *** part/#maemo Sysaxed (~alex@82.131.82.194.cable.starman.ee) |
| 18:03.10 | psycho_oreos | Probably I have more of other things running hence maybe more swap. *shrugs*. |
| 18:03.41 | Wizzup | ah |
| 18:03.57 | Wizzup | I really only use my n900 for a few things: ssh/terminal, calling, sharing 3g over usb |
| 18:04.08 | Wizzup | That's all I really want for a phone... and it for it to be GNU/Linux |
| 18:04.17 | Wizzup | ;-) |
| 18:04.25 | Wizzup | maybe I should try out nemo |
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| 18:05.11 | eccerr0r | can android still be called GNU/Linux? |
| 18:05.16 | Wizzup | no |
| 18:05.56 | eccerr0r | didn't think so, they bastardized it too much. |
| 18:06.55 | eccerr0r | I just wished more of maemo was OSS |
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| 18:12.00 | Wizzup | hmm ... flashing RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin seems to go way too fast |
| 18:12.04 | Wizzup | Or rather, it takes no time... |
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| 18:15.38 | Wizzup | ah now it is |
| 18:31.53 | psycho_oreos | Finally finished compiling the basis of firmware hacking. |
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| 19:15.01 | brolin_empey | Free the mango! ;-) |
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| 19:39.44 | Wizzup | hmm, powerkernel doesn't want to install -- it tells me it's missing kernel-feature-smartreflex |
| 19:41.58 | kerio | ...wat |
| 19:42.17 | Wizzup | yeah. |
| 19:42.33 | Wizzup | (I flashed PR 1.3; added extras-testing; performed any upgrades, and now it tells me that) |
| 19:43.01 | kerio | nothing depends or is depended upon by kernel-feature-smartreflex in nokia ssu, nokia apps, extras-devel, cssu-testing, cssu-thumb, cssu-devel, bmerep |
| 19:44.24 | Wizzup | Status: Not installable |
| 19:44.28 | Wizzup | Let me try from command line and see |
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| 19:44.40 | Wizzup | Application packages missing: kernel-feature-smartreflex |
| 19:44.44 | Wizzup | That's power kernel 50 |
| 19:46.05 | Wizzup | The following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 19:46.06 | Wizzup | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:46.08 | Wizzup | E: Broken packages |
| 19:46.53 | kerio | mmh |
| 19:47.00 | kerio | wait, what |
| 19:47.04 | kerio | why are you installing kp50? D: |
| 19:47.27 | Wizzup | I don't want to -- its just whatever is in the package manager. |
| 19:47.31 | Wizzup | I added the extras-testing repo as well |
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| 19:48.55 | Wizzup | weird, via apt it seems to work. |
| 19:49.12 | Wizzup | although I don't think I wanted to do that ;-) |
| 19:49.45 | Wizzup | ah, that also doesn't contain the flasher |
| 19:50.21 | Wizzup | hmm... |
| 19:50.24 | Wizzup | *confused* |
| 19:50.32 | Wizzup | maybe I'll add extras-devel and install power kernel from there |
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| 20:07.28 | Wizzup | from devel it works |
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| 21:25.50 | Wizzup | installing thumb \o/ |
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| 22:56.02 | sixwheeledbeast | Wizzup: KP package is yet to be repaired, it's a repo issue that fmg is sorting I believe. If you look in the pkg i/face you will see only the kernel-power-flasher package has version52 |
| 22:56.56 | Wizzup | yeah, I went with the extras-devel version |
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