| 00:01.21 | qwazix | does that script run as user or as root? |
| 00:07.28 | qwazix | now I know why it doesn't work: the whole thing runs before wlan is up. Even if I tell it to sleep I'm just delaying the whole thing |
| 00:15.09 | qwazix | bye |
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| 00:35.48 | FIQ|n900 | there we go |
| 00:35.53 | FIQ|n900 | went unexpectedly smooth |
| 00:36.09 | FIQ|n900 | even though the optfs was apparently half a year old ... |
| 00:36.45 | FIQ|n900 | guess I'll run into some hiccups still not restoring both fs at the same time |
| 00:36.54 | FIQ|n900 | but I at least solved the obvious issues |
| 00:37.14 | FIQ|n900 | (10 icons in menu not showing up properly, grep not working properly) |
| 00:37.31 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: do you know any way to figure out "missing" symlinks? |
| 00:37.37 | FIQ|n900 | easily that is |
| 00:37.59 | FIQ|n900 | or better yet, a way for apt to figure out what packages are missing files |
| 00:39.02 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer51: also, worth pointing out - optfs restoration *did* restore an old ~ as well |
| 00:39.25 | FIQ|n900 | I simply updated ~ with my tar on boot as it was newer than that restoration, but yeah |
| 00:39.54 | FIQ|n900 | next time such issues arise, I'll tar /home rather than /home/user |
| 00:40.29 | FIQ|n900 | or better yet, let BM try it first and only when it fails, do it for hand |
| 00:40.32 | FIQ|n900 | *by hand |
| 00:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: find can spot dangling symlinks I guess |
| 00:41.52 | FIQ|n900 | also I should really consider restoring my xchat.conf to defaults... |
| 00:41.58 | FIQ|n900 | atm it's kinda broken |
| 00:42.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrxchat |
| 00:42.18 | infobot | well, jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ |
| 00:42.18 | FIQ|n900 | (it has been like that for a while now, never bothered fixing it) |
| 00:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 00:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless, for the record: man find: >> l symbolic link; this is never true if the -L option or the -follow option is in effect, unless the symbolic link is broken.<< |
| 00:45.46 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 00:45.54 | FIQ|n900 | there we go |
| 00:45.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 00:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-21 02:43:43] <-- FIQ|n900 has left this server (Quit: Leaving). |
| 00:46.08 | FIQ|n900 | *keybindings.conf not xchat.conf lol |
| 00:46.42 | FIQ|n900 | accidentally messed keybindings earlier when trying to disable C-i idiocy |
| 00:46.51 | FIQ|n900 | xchat completely ignored it >.> |
| 00:47.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless, for the record: man find: >> l symbolic link; this is never true if the -L option or the -follow option is in effect, unless the symbolic link is broken.<< |
| 00:47.51 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:48.43 | FIQ|n900 | and apart from ignoring C-i rebinding, I also managed to mess up some other keybindings |
| 00:48.51 | FIQ|n900 | so I basically just made it worse :D |
| 00:49.01 | bef0rd | reflash |
| 00:49.32 | FIQ|n900 | wut? |
| 00:49.53 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: nice |
| 00:50.07 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 00:50.37 | FIQ|n900 | I wonder if complaining to author of xchat package could make him fix c-i idiocy |
| 00:50.47 | FIQ|n900 | though I believe the real issue is upon xchat devs |
| 00:51.16 | FIQ|n900 | the problem is, C-i uses their old keybinding functionality not within the configuration file |
| 00:51.30 | FIQ|n900 | and in addition, C-i likes to segfault |
| 00:52.04 | FIQ|n900 | the reason I use it at all is unintended - weechat (and irssi) has nickcompletion on that combination... |
| 00:52.26 | FIQ|n900 | would be nice if c-i could do that instead, or at least *nothing at all* rather than crashing |
| 00:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-i is TAB |
| 00:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless shell/xterm keybindings changed it |
| 00:55.45 | FIQ|n900 | not in xchat |
| 00:55.59 | FIQ|n900 | in xchat, ctrl+i breaks current window to a desktop window |
| 00:56.18 | FIQ|n900 | however in n900 version (and in desktop version too! though less often), it crashes xchat |
| 00:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's weird |
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| 00:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not implemented in n900 xchat |
| 00:56.47 | FIQ|n900 | [02:54:02] <LIP> FIQ|n900: other than removing the item from the source and recompiling, not at this point |
| 00:56.50 | FIQ|n900 | :( |
| 00:57.05 | FIQ|n900 | (in #xchat, asking if removing the combination is possible) |
| 01:00.58 | DrCode | I want to use mail for exchange to sync exchange server , what can I use to sync gmail (calander,contact) |
| 01:01.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then that's what should be done: comment out that function completely, and while we're at it please also allow to disable the close-channel button in lower-left under the tabs list directly above the scrollbuttons for said tablist |
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| 01:03.37 | FIQ|n900 | I don't follow what you mean @ the latter |
| 01:04.08 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: apparently, an user (same one as that paste was from) is already working on a patch for that issue, plus the crashing |
| 01:04.55 | FIQ|n900 | so if it gets released anytime soon, I guess commenting it out wouldn't be necessary, and simply updating to upstream 2.8.10 or whatever is next is enough |
| 01:05.05 | FIQ|n900 | n900's xchat port is outdated anyway |
| 01:05.22 | bef0rd | sombody should update it |
| 01:05.25 | bef0rd | points FIQ|n900 |
| 01:05.49 | FIQ|n900 | bef0rd: 1) not a package manager of that package, 2) no maemo sdk :P |
| 01:06.16 | bef0rd | you can always request access to update it |
| 01:06.23 | FIQ|n900 | afaik R3st8h is the author of xchat n900 port |
| 01:06.38 | FIQ|n900 | ~seen r3st8h |
| 01:06.40 | infobot | FIQ|n900: i haven't seen 'r3st8h' |
| 01:06.53 | FIQ|n900 | hm perhaps I recall his nick wrong |
| 01:07.48 | *** join/#maemo APTX_ (APTX@unaffiliated/aptx) |
| 01:08.01 | FIQ|n900 | afk |
| 01:08.43 | bef0rd | maybe RST38h |
| 01:09.32 | psycho_oreos | ~seen RST38h |
| 01:09.33 | infobot | rst38h is currently on #maemo (16h 1m 44s) #maemo-ssu (16h 1m 44s), last said: 'The Adam generates a surge of electromagnetic energy on startup, which can erase the contents of any removable media left in or near the drive.'. |
| 01:09.41 | FIQ|n900 | oh that was it |
| 01:10.15 | FIQ|n900 | RST38h: ping? also sorry for getting your nick wrong |
| 01:15.52 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 01:16.26 | FIQ|n900 | perhaps I should try to make it a routine to backup (opt|root)fs once a month |
| 01:16.37 | FIQ|n900 | to avoid restorations from too long ago |
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| 05:55.32 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i have ext4, yeah |
| 05:55.49 | kerio | first, repartition and align to 4mb |
| 05:56.02 | kerio | then add the raid striping options to ext4 |
| 05:56.06 | kerio | then enjoy ext4 |
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| 07:37.02 | DrCode | hi all |
| 07:37.35 | DrCode | I understand that mail for exchange can sync only 1 account, Emminnig can sync calander |
| 07:37.45 | DrCode | is there way to sync my contact ? |
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| 09:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | good (UGT) morning |
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| 09:57.13 | win7mac | g'morning |
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| 10:09.48 | Lava_Croft | wtf tempratures |
| 10:27.03 | Macer | wtf |
| 10:27.13 | Macer | why the hell does user not have write access to MyDocs |
| 10:27.18 | Macer | and the SD? |
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| 10:33.28 | Macer | you have got to be kidding me |
| 10:33.39 | Macer | i was wondering why i can't save crap from the device to the vfat |
| 10:33.51 | Macer | and i find out that for whatever reason user doesn't hve write permissions after updating to thumb |
| 10:34.28 | Hurrian | Macer: check perms, check genfstab.awk |
| 10:40.55 | Macer | i know the permissions are wrong |
| 10:41.01 | Macer | it is mounting with root:root as its owner |
| 10:41.08 | Macer | i just changed the fstab manually for MyDocs |
| 10:41.11 | Macer | and rebooted.. |
| 10:41.15 | Macer | but seriously.. wtf? |
| 10:41.45 | Macer | where is genfstab.awk? /etc? |
| 10:43.33 | Macer | this is crazy |
| 10:43.48 | Macer | especially considering MyDocs is vfat |
| 10:43.50 | Macer | lol |
| 10:43.59 | Macer | i don't see a genfstab.awk |
| 10:44.13 | Macer | and you can't change perms on a vfat fs |
| 10:45.59 | Macer | there is no genfstab.awk on my friggin n900 |
| 10:47.41 | Macer | wow. this is amazing. i'm sick of bothering with using old devices. time to just suck it up ebay these and get a GS4 |
| 10:47.56 | Macer | an update shouldn't ruin your ability to write to your SD and MyDocs |
| 10:51.53 | Macer | even attempting to remount with mount with the uid flags set doesn't change it |
| 10:53.36 | Macer | fk this. i'll just swap the sim out move my stuff off of it and ebay it |
| 10:53.57 | Lava_Croft | and make someone else happy with a valued n900! \o/ |
| 10:54.08 | Macer | if happy is the word you want to use |
| 10:54.38 | Macer | i like the n900 but when you have shit like this happen where you are trying to figure out why you can't save an img from an mms |
| 10:54.41 | Macer | it's time to go |
| 10:54.54 | Lava_Croft | n900 doesnt even support mms out of the box |
| 10:55.03 | Macer | that should tell you a lot right there |
| 10:55.06 | Macer | but even so |
| 10:55.07 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:55.11 | Lava_Croft | mms is deprecated |
| 10:55.12 | Macer | it isn't the mms that is the problem |
| 10:55.32 | Macer | lol. if you say so |
| 10:55.38 | *** part/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:55.47 | Macer | there are still millions and millions of people who use mms to send pics |
| 10:55.57 | Macer | but like i said |
| 10:56.01 | Macer | that isn't the issue right now |
| 10:56.07 | Macer | right now i updated and i can't write to the vfat partitions |
| 10:56.21 | Lava_Croft | i run thumb, didnt have such a problem |
| 10:56.33 | Macer | nor can i find an easy fix to do so.. so now i have to dive into it and try to figure out what went wrong |
| 10:56.44 | Macer | and why i can't do something as simple as write to MyDocs and the SD? |
| 10:57.06 | Macer | i hate to say it but these are the sorts of things that should just work. it is no wonder nokia killed maemo off :) |
| 10:57.09 | Lava_Croft | same reason why you cannot do other 'simple' taks on other mobiles |
| 10:57.13 | Lava_Croft | tasks* |
| 10:57.18 | Macer | er |
| 10:57.35 | Macer | like..... use PAN, MMS, and write to an SD? :) |
| 10:57.46 | Lava_Croft | blame nokia for cssu thumb update? |
| 10:57.57 | Lava_Croft | why dont you blame MS too, since thats fashionable |
| 10:58.00 | Lava_Croft | huckles |
| 10:58.05 | Macer | nope. but i can understand why they dropped it |
| 10:58.16 | Lava_Croft | you cant |
| 10:58.19 | Lava_Croft | you are just enraged |
| 10:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: please stop ranting! |
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| 10:58.59 | Lava_Croft | yeah, ranting is the sole right of DocScrutinizer05 |
| 10:59.05 | Lava_Croft | chuckles some more |
| 10:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, since *I* know how to rant, while Macer just makes a fool of himself, by bitvhing about MyDocs not mounted rw |
| 11:00.24 | Lava_Croft | opinions probably differ on the first part of your sentence |
| 11:00.31 | Lava_Croft | but the last part is correct |
| 11:00.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's a bug then report a bug, don't act like a defiant child that assumes everything done just to annoy him |
| 11:01.33 | Lava_Croft | and there i thought freemangordon lived off of the misery experienced by people like Macer |
| 11:01.37 | Lava_Croft | boy was i wrong! |
| 11:01.41 | Macer | lol |
| 11:02.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly staements like "I'm not going to do $X to get rid of this <insert-XXX-here> maemo device, and get a $X instead" is not interesting anybody in this channel |
| 11:02.53 | Macer | well... if anybody wants to buy this thing let me know. i'm going to ebay it in a bit. i'll give it up for $150 |
| 11:03.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/not/now/ |
| 11:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suppose you try ebay right away, since all your bitching wasn't a good PR for selling your device at that pricetag in here |
| 11:04.20 | Macer | k |
| 11:04.26 | Macer | just figured i'd ask |
| 11:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | 150? nah |
| 11:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm also no fan of latest CSSU-T fstab hack. It's basically worth nothing and high risk, just implemented to avoid the problems it's actually introducing. But honestly, that's a CSSU-T issue, not a N900 or maemo issue |
| 11:09.00 | Macer | i would have to agree with you there |
| 11:09.22 | Macer | i still have my e7 tho. so there is that at least |
| 11:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, all my fighting for a conservative maintenance of CSSU finally succumbed to the fanboys of bleeding edge and "we want monthly updates, no matter what for" |
| 11:10.01 | Macer | lol |
| 11:10.18 | Macer | yeah. i just figured it would provide a benefit |
| 11:10.38 | Macer | seems not but to each their own. im sure devs still love n900s |
| 11:11.06 | Macer | nowadays i just want something that has a qwerty and works lol |
| 11:12.07 | Macer | s4 has the attachable bt qwerty so that should do the trick |
| 11:12.43 | Macer | and a msd slot. time to give up on the could've beens. |
| 11:13.43 | Macer | ah well. it has been fun. good luck with everything. |
| 11:14.17 | Lava_Croft | and it has android |
| 11:14.19 | Lava_Croft | no gnu userland |
| 11:14.21 | Lava_Croft | samsung hw |
| 11:14.24 | Lava_Croft | glass screen |
| 11:14.32 | Lava_Croft | have fun with it! |
| 11:15.35 | Macer | meh. i will put a debian chroot on it. the touchscreen is better with multi finger support... can install cm on it to avoid ad-droid based stuff. and it can multitask just fine |
| 11:16.25 | Macer | and i am bold enough to say the samsung hw is probably a bit stronger than what the n900 is working with. ;) |
| 11:16.41 | Lava_Croft | CM is still android |
| 11:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | stronger as in...? |
| 11:16.50 | Lava_Croft | it still has no GNU userland |
| 11:16.58 | Lava_Croft | and you need a quadcore CPU to run android without lag |
| 11:17.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure CPU has higher clock |
| 11:17.06 | Macer | well. not like there are many alternatives |
| 11:17.16 | Lava_Croft | samsung captiva glide |
| 11:17.23 | Lava_Croft | at least that has a HW keyboard |
| 11:17.24 | Macer | maybe ubuntu devices will show promise |
| 11:17.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh? |
| 11:18.04 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.phonespot.nl/images/productimages/big/Samsung%20Captivate%20Glide%20i927%20002.jpg |
| 11:18.07 | Lava_Croft | i927 |
| 11:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 11:18.15 | Lava_Croft | friend of mine got it to replace his n900 |
| 11:18.20 | Lava_Croft | apart from android, he is rather happy with it |
| 11:18.24 | Lava_Croft | oh, and it lacks a CTRL key:) |
| 11:18.36 | Lava_Croft | but there is a CM release for it, so |
| 11:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, that looks nice |
| 11:18.44 | Lava_Croft | its not maemo, but its not that bad |
| 11:18.58 | Hurrian | wow, uhh, that's a pretty crappy android phone. |
| 11:19.03 | Lava_Croft | i think only in the US/Asia tho |
| 11:19.07 | Lava_Croft | not EU |
| 11:19.46 | Lava_Croft | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG/1280px-Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG |
| 11:19.50 | Lava_Croft | nicer pic |
| 11:20.01 | Hurrian | meh, get a phone with a large enough keyboard, and you won't be complaining about hwkb unless you use terminal /a lot/ to edit files in vi. |
| 11:20.20 | Lava_Croft | hw keyb > * |
| 11:20.25 | Lava_Croft | no onscreen keyboard can replace it |
| 11:20.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeeeek! that looks like one crappy kbd, almost as crappy as N950 or eten M800 |
| 11:20.57 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-133-2-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 11:21.04 | Hurrian | Lava_Croft: N9's touch keyboard is fine by me. |
| 11:21.11 | Lava_Croft | its no replacement |
| 11:21.12 | Macer | http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00D2ZUN1Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1374405622&sr=8-3&pi=SL75 |
| 11:21.22 | Macer | was thinking more of that |
| 11:22.13 | Lava_Croft | that will need another case to protect the screen |
| 11:22.21 | Lava_Croft | since its samsung, the shell of the phone is made of rubber-like substance |
| 11:22.30 | Lava_Croft | making the phone bendable as shit |
| 11:22.42 | Lava_Croft | thats why samsung invests so heavily into flexible screens |
| 11:22.49 | Lava_Croft | thats easier than learning how to make good HW |
| 11:23.09 | Macer | like falling off usb ports? ;) |
| 11:23.43 | Lava_Croft | never happened to me or anyone i know with n900 |
| 11:23.46 | Macer | http://https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dyndns.sven_ola.debian_kit&hl=en |
| 11:23.48 | Lava_Croft | i only know it from TMO |
| 11:24.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the AWESOME keys it got! "www." ".com" `speech input´ "smiley" "OK" |
| 11:24.18 | Macer | haha |
| 11:24.19 | Lava_Croft | welcome to android |
| 11:24.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | can I please get ".de" instead of ".com" ? |
| 11:24.30 | Macer | well... that was the 1st one i saw |
| 11:24.31 | Lava_Croft | .com key is normal in android, with onscreen keyb too |
| 11:24.35 | Macer | there are others |
| 11:24.51 | Macer | but they have them to get a qwerty onto an s4 |
| 11:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | "www." and <smiley> for sure are my alltime favorites |
| 11:25.47 | Macer | im sure they are easily remapped |
| 11:25.59 | Macer | to tab and pipe |
| 11:26.04 | Macer | heh |
| 11:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope the printing on key is also scrap-off otherwise too embarrassing |
| 11:26.36 | Macer | to whom? |
| 11:26.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | to the bearer |
| 11:26.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 11:27.04 | Macer | i doubt anybody would notice or care. maybe a cs major |
| 11:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be ashamed to carry a device with a smiley hw key |
| 11:27.29 | Macer | and even then theyd probably just like it because it is a qwerty on an s4 |
| 11:28.05 | Macer | cant really find too many high end phones with qwerty |
| 11:28.08 | Macer | if any at all |
| 11:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | evem on plane-3 |
| 11:28.22 | Macer | probably because you have to sell them internationally |
| 11:28.25 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 11:28.41 | Macer | wacky germans with z and y swapped |
| 11:28.48 | Macer | heh |
| 11:29.10 | psycho_oreos | The whole trend is pretty much what Apple had started, phones/devices lacking a proper hardware keyboard. |
| 11:29.29 | Macer | psycho_oreos: it made sense tho |
| 11:29.42 | psycho_oreos | Every other damn manufacturer just followed suit. |
| 11:29.47 | Macer | why make 50 different keyboards? |
| 11:29.54 | Macer | when a vkb is software |
| 11:30.16 | Macer | it probably saved billions so far heh |
| 11:30.36 | psycho_oreos | Macer, yeah and why not give end users no freedom to even do simple commands like copy and paste. Afterall, programmers are free to write their own vkb instead. |
| 11:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: that's just because idiotic industry rather copies than trusting in own R&D and design department |
| 11:31.22 | Macer | well i am sure it is all bottom line |
| 11:31.33 | Macer | like using cheap solder points on usb ports heh |
| 11:31.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | "iPhone does it this way. iPhone is market leader. So we do it same way, it must be right thing to do" |
| 11:32.02 | Lava_Croft | iphone is not market leader anywhere except the US |
| 11:32.05 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, for various reasons on various scales, its inevitable that hardware keyboard phones/devices faces their immediate death after PDAs. |
| 11:32.21 | Lava_Croft | Netherlands is about 70 to 80% android |
| 11:32.50 | Macer | Lava_Croft: but most high end ad-droid phones dont have a kb |
| 11:33.14 | psycho_oreos | There was a time when in 2009 some of the top end android devices still featured hardware keyboard. These days hardware keyboard phones/devices are commonly found on dumb/cheap phones. |
| 11:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's since android mimics iPhone |
| 11:33.31 | Macer | but i agree on their reasoning. im sure it also helps with 3rd party international sales |
| 11:33.32 | Lava_Croft | thats because people dont WANT hw keyboards anymore |
| 11:33.36 | Lava_Croft | not because imitating iphone |
| 11:33.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | iPhone been first and always been "leader" |
| 11:33.47 | Macer | since for the most part they can be universal |
| 11:34.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter about recent market share |
| 11:34.25 | Macer | Lava_Croft: i think they can just live without them |
| 11:34.33 | Macer | if they had them they would use them |
| 11:34.47 | Lava_Croft | they dont want it |
| 11:34.53 | Lava_Croft | HW keyboard equals bigger phone |
| 11:34.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | but copycats like google simply ignore that even Apple might do decisions based on other rationale than mere product usability considerations |
| 11:34.56 | Macer | but a hw kb adds bulk(weight) |
| 11:35.47 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: cattle eat hay |
| 11:35.54 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~rikanee@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 11:36.19 | Macer | if they starved to death... theyd eat something else |
| 11:36.21 | psycho_oreos | There was a time where innovative features like 9xxx series communicator and E7 had ways to hide the hardware keyboard. Now it seems like hardware keyboard is an unecessary junk/bulk. |
| 11:36.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | see "bigger phone" for example. everybody thinks the trend is to ever smaller devices, while every usability expert can elaborate why that's a deadend path. And recent devices show that trend goes to 5" or even 7" *phones* |
| 11:36.56 | Macer | heh |
| 11:37.12 | Macer | i wouldnt say my e7 hides it well |
| 11:37.17 | Lava_Croft | where do you get such general statements from like "everybody thinks the trend is towards blabla" |
| 11:37.22 | Macer | i guess it isnt that big |
| 11:37.27 | Macer | im using it now |
| 11:38.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: that's a simplified statement to summarize trend of whole industry during last 6 years |
| 11:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe last 8 except last 18 months |
| 11:38.35 | psycho_oreos | N900 isn't all that particularly big with hardware keyboard. It was probably because of the design limitations prohibit N900 to be thin, if you looked at N950 which was virtually based off E7 its noticeably thinner. |
| 11:38.48 | Lava_Croft | the trend has been towards largest phones for quite some years |
| 11:38.57 | Lava_Croft | with even apple copying the androids and getting a bigger screened phone |
| 11:39.14 | Lava_Croft | (after stating you would never need a bigger screen, of course) |
| 11:39.22 | psycho_oreos | Largest and thinnest phones.. |
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| 11:40.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: yep |
| 11:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 thickness is basically determined by cam module |
| 11:41.34 | psycho_oreos | The wars between trends has always been a key factor, just yesterday I was watching N900 demo/teaser on cutetube and reading comments to see people flaming each other about N900 vs <insert_other_random_device_here_or_go_with_iPhone> |
| 11:42.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 cam module seems rather poor quality regarding size, in my book |
| 11:42.26 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB0A44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:43.13 | psycho_oreos | In N8, they've improved (probably) that cam module but made it purely symbian. |
| 11:43.16 | *** join/#maemo mvp (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 11:43.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus it makes for that ugly annoying bump on battery cover |
| 11:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would've shot the ID designers for that |
| 11:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but compared to iPhone cam module it's still phantastic, hw wise (my own unsupported notion). Just that apple did a hell of a job on sw side to compensate for the shorcomings of their crap cam |
| 11:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | which *usually* makes for nice snapshots on iPhone, unless you go to take photos under certain conditions (moved objects) where the limitations show clearly, by generating nasty artifacts |
| 11:49.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then, Apple is a sw developer that knows his busines sw side and eventually decided to do phone hw, while Nokia been a hw developer always and also generally did a lot of outsourcing for the sw side |
| 11:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the differences in design paradigms are clearly based on compny's history |
| 11:52.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | and not even Nokia is rid of limitations the FOSS idea imposes on hw design |
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| 11:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask dm8tbr about how boneheaded companies like e.g ST-E can act when it comes to proper licensing of simple stupid .h files for e.g. GFX |
| 11:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc the MALI400 grafics core can't get used in FOSS just because ST-E refuses to GPL a already disclosed 200lines .h that's "(C) ST-Ericson" |
| 11:56.17 | RST38h | Rewrite the header, use different names |
| 11:56.23 | RST38h | rearrange them in the header |
| 11:56.41 | psycho_oreos | I think if it were that simple, they would have contemplated with seriousness. |
| 11:56.54 | RST38h | psycho: no |
| 11:57.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, since both parties are somewhat boneheaded |
| 11:57.31 | psycho_oreos | N900 had lots of cool hardware in general, people just don't realise they could unlock the hardware's inner potential and to look at the obvious shortcomings. |
| 11:58.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the fcam guys did |
| 11:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the blessN900 guys as well |
| 11:58.55 | psycho_oreos | It was only then had they got these other people with <insert_random_phone_or_device_here> asking about it and wishing their manufacturer would do the same. |
| 11:59.03 | Wizzup_ | hmmm |
| 11:59.06 | Wizzup_ | mali can't be used by foss? |
| 11:59.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | but still they can't compete with what a 500 heads developer team for just the cam drivers can do at Apple |
| 11:59.07 | Wizzup_ | this is new to me |
| 11:59.16 | Wizzup_ | I mean, there's no finished foss driver |
| 11:59.20 | psycho_oreos | There was other things like fmtxd, the wl1251 module, the trio LED notification. |
| 11:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: that might have changed meanwhile |
| 11:59.27 | Lava_Croft | life with the n900 is generally like this: iphone user looks at n900 and smirks about size, screen, stylus |
| 11:59.31 | Wizzup_ | I have it running on my gentoo install |
| 11:59.33 | Lava_Croft | but once anything has to be done, n900 has to do it |
| 11:59.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: that info is like 2 years old |
| 11:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 3 |
| 11:59.40 | Wizzup_ | ok |
| 11:59.41 | Lava_Croft | because iphone cant/wont/whatever |
| 11:59.49 | Wizzup_ | DocScrutinizer05: libv and others are working on lima |
| 11:59.55 | Wizzup_ | I'm hoping it finishes soon |
| 11:59.58 | Wizzup_ | at least, comes around |
| 12:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: I jusz quoted that instance since I been working inside ST-E at that time, and tried to move sth about the issue with that .h file |
| 12:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | after dm8tbr told me about it |
| 12:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas Ericsson worked on the LTE modem, not the AP/GFX halve of NovaThor |
| 12:01.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I couldn't do much |
| 12:01.55 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:02.02 | FIQ|n900 | hi |
| 12:02.23 | FIQ|n900 | there's one thing I've become tired of regarding the application "mobilehotspot" |
| 12:02.41 | FIQ|n900 | every now and then, seemingly completely random, it simply doesn't start |
| 12:03.04 | FIQ|n900 | the exact error being "ImportError: No module named os" |
| 12:03.22 | FIQ|n900 | the solution is simply rebooting and hope it doesn't happen again |
| 12:03.43 | FIQ|n900 | and if that fails, do it again (though that happens rarely) |
| 12:03.51 | FIQ|n900 | any idea *what* causes this thing? |
| 12:03.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 12:04.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | share syslog |
| 12:04.17 | FIQ|n900 | sorry? |
| 12:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and start mobilehotspot in terminal or with stdout/stderr redirection to a logfile |
| 12:04.57 | psycho_oreos | He basically meant share a log where useful information can probably be extracted. Usually from the likes of dmesg/syslog. |
| 12:05.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | tnx psycho_oreos |
| 12:05.32 | psycho_oreos | When X happens instead of Y, its always best to run things in terminal, look in all the possible logs/avenues, etc. |
| 12:05.44 | FIQ|n900 | mhm |
| 12:06.02 | psycho_oreos | You don't go, oh its annoying me *reboot and hope it goes away*. |
| 12:06.20 | FIQ|n900 | yeah just wasn't sure what he meant with syslog |
| 12:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | regularly programs spit some diagnostics to stderr or syslog when something inexpected happens |
| 12:06.30 | psycho_oreos | ^ |
| 12:06.39 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: indeed, but this exact issue *do* get solved by rebooting |
| 12:06.47 | FIQ|n900 | which I found out accidentally once |
| 12:06.56 | FIQ|n900 | and this doesn't make any sense to me |
| 12:07.01 | psycho_oreos | That's where its useful to debug rather than doing nothing until it got annoying. |
| 12:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus: share syslog |
| 12:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg |
| 12:07.33 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 12:07.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | syslog |
| 12:07.37 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, I don't know, that error almost sounds like some issue with python. Though I'm no programmer. |
| 12:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sysklog? |
| 12:07.56 | Sicelo | +d ;) |
| 12:08.00 | psycho_oreos | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:08.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | only if sysklogd is installed |
| 12:08.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise dmesg, though it's sub-par |
| 12:09.14 | psycho_oreos | Speaking of dmesg, I found there was a nice perl script to translate those ktimer messages into meaningful syslog lookalike output. |
| 12:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly "run-standalone.sh mobilehotspot 2>~/MyDocs/MH.log 1>&2 |
| 12:09.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | " |
| 12:10.18 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to import os manually within a python interpreter |
| 12:10.30 | FIQ|n900 | and it fails to find it as well |
| 12:10.35 | FIQ|n900 | so something weird is going on @python |
| 12:10.37 | *** join/#maemo kolp (~quassel@46.79.106.97) |
| 12:11.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: cooool |
| 12:11.10 | psycho_oreos | When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from? |
| 12:11.16 | *** join/#maemo trx (ns-team@93.87.57.248) |
| 12:11.16 | *** join/#maemo trx (ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 12:11.22 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, I was going to paste the link, hang on.. I'm going to find it again. |
| 12:12.04 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, http://linuxaria.com/article/how-to-make-dmesg-timestamp-human-readable?lang=en <-- only the perl script works on N900, python variant failed. |
| 12:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 12:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I'd probably rather need it on my PC. Thanks a lot |
| 12:13.03 | psycho_oreos | Hehe, oh well, wherever you may find it handy :D |
| 12:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | (on N900 I got syslog since ~ beginning of times ;-d ) |
| 12:13.10 | psycho_oreos | no worries. |
| 12:13.16 | FIQ|n900 | [14:11:09] <psycho_oreos> When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from? |
| 12:13.52 | FIQ|n900 | I don't know this one atm, so I guess I'll have to reboot into a working MH to find that out? unless you have another solution |
| 12:13.59 | psycho_oreos | has had issues with sysklogd failing to start after what was supposedly an issue trying to optify syslog file and wanting to compress it (to save space). |
| 12:14.30 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: also honestly I fail to understand exactly how dmesg is helpful in this case |
| 12:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 12:14.31 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, I'm no programmer, if it did worked at the time during reboots yeah its probably a way I suppose. |
| 12:14.52 | FIQ|n900 | ohh hooray, that pastebinit script requires os too lol |
| 12:14.55 | psycho_oreos | err I meant after a reboot. |
| 12:14.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: since MH needs kernel support, it *may* be relevant |
| 12:15.29 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-133-2-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 12:15.32 | psycho_oreos | Hmm I think I have pastebinit also installed.. lemme try something as well from my end. |
| 12:15.43 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: but when I earlier (before knowing it required KP) tried to use mobilehotspot in vanilla kernel, the application itself started fine |
| 12:15.56 | FIQ|n900 | it just failed to create a wlan interface, i.e. not same issue as now |
| 12:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: I'm not going to discuss the possible error patterns in any app on this level. It's futile |
| 12:16.47 | *** join/#maemo Cor-Ai (~cor-ai@212.112.62.30) |
| 12:16.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | a swift look at syslog is way more ffective, if only to rule out sth odd is going on there |
| 12:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | to diagnose *any* arbitrary problem with a process, you generally need: stdout.log, stderr.log, syslog |
| 12:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and strace if the aforementioned don't help |
| 12:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's hardly any bug in a program that can't get tracked down following this pattern |
| 12:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when it's a bug that causes abort or failure to startup |
| 12:19.49 | FIQ|n900 | as I didn't had syslog installed - http://sprunge.us/MPFe dmesg output |
| 12:19.55 | psycho_oreos | Some programs contains hidden extra parameters that can be shown via strings if the program in question is a binary. |
| 12:20.34 | FIQ|n900 | mobilehotspot is a python script though |
| 12:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, dmesg is sub-par, I said it. [ 80.442291] wl1251: down is the only slightly interesting thing in dmesg |
| 12:21.35 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: in addition I installed sysklogd for future issues for easier debugging |
| 12:21.56 | FIQ|n900 | http://sprunge.us/KcVH mobilehotspot's stderr |
| 12:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | make sure to every now and then clean out your /var/log/* from obsolete old logs or too large current logs |
| 12:22.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I do that every 3 months or so |
| 12:22.52 | FIQ|n900 | http://sprunge.us/PbBW and the actual mobilehotspot python script (it's small) in case it gives any clues |
| 12:22.59 | psycho_oreos | http://sprunge.us/jjgN <-- my "dpkg -l| grep python| pastebinit -b http://sprunge.us" output (if that maybe of certain use), goes to show my python version works with pastebinit. |
| 12:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: stderr already gives a good clue, no? |
| 12:23.27 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: yes it does |
| 12:23.37 | FIQ|n900 | but in case mobilehotspot is doing something funny |
| 12:23.43 | FIQ|n900 | doesn't look like it though |
| 12:25.26 | psycho_oreos | Also googling for the exact error phrase may also seem to help as well. |
| 12:26.42 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: yes I did this before coming here |
| 12:26.59 | FIQ|n900 | but it didn't turn up anything interesting/relevant |
| 12:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | err guys, I'm no python crack at all, but I seem to recall a python shebang alsways looks like "#!/bin/env pythonBLAH" |
| 12:29.20 | Wizzup_ | /usr/bin/env yeah |
| 12:29.31 | Wizzup_ | just installed fcam, rebooted, and I have no /dev/video0 anymore |
| 12:29.40 | Wizzup_ | interesting ;-) |
| 12:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | not "#!/usr/bin/run-standalone.sh python2.5" |
| 12:29.47 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-92-89.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 12:29.55 | FIQ|n900 | isn't env used to get the correct path to the python binary? |
| 12:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, afaik sth like that |
| 12:30.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | disclaimer, see above |
| 12:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc here |
| 12:31.52 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, the first link from google was from stackoverflow which one suggested about using $PYTHONPATH. Now my "find / -name "os.pyc"" outputs these: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc | /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc | /home/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc |
| 12:32.50 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: what did you google on? I basically googled the error I pasted above and got no such link |
| 12:33.03 | FIQ|n900 | but yes I can try looking for os.pyc |
| 12:33.26 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, "ImportError: No module named os" and the link: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12320143/python-importerror-no-module-named-os |
| 12:34.14 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, somewhere something got messed up horribly, most likely a bad kernel module. |
| 12:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: probably the /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc is a symlink to optified /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc which is a bindmount to /home/opt/ |
| 12:35.15 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, yup :) the real python libs would never sit in rootfs anyway considering how limited the space of rootfs is. |
| 12:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ""Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]"" |
| 12:36.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems to me like $PYTHONHOME is unset or incorrect |
| 12:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc why |
| 12:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or why it's needed anyway |
| 12:37.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe $PATH or $(pwd) is incorrect |
| 12:37.18 | psycho_oreos | I don't have $PYTHONHOME set as well (no outputs from my N900), though one guy from that link said to put this in their .bashrc: PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6 . Obviously that's the wrong Python version but it seems like its one hackish attempts to rectify the issue. |
| 12:37.41 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: it would appear so, but I have no clue why |
| 12:37.44 | *** join/#maemo Mike11 (~Mike@31.9.81.60) |
| 12:37.53 | Wizzup_ | just installed ``FCamera'' from extras-testing, and I am on power kernel 50 |
| 12:38.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's probably needed when sth is non-standard thus non-default on your pathnames and mounts and whatnot |
| 12:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | MIGHT again be a fstab issue ;-P |
| 12:38.46 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, usually a mismatched kernel with kernel modules loaded can cause issues. Other times it would output invalid module format -1 or something. syslog/dmesg output maybe useful here. I'm using kp52 with fcam modules (latest) and no issues from my end though. |
| 12:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | check for `mount` |
| 12:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the bindmounts for python are there |
| 12:39.08 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that too. |
| 12:40.07 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: manual modprobe seems to fail with invalid module format |
| 12:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the randomness of the issue, I might figure the new fstab/fsck hack introduced to CSSU-T may fail to bindmount the python mounts when and only when any of the fs needs fsck |
| 12:40.13 | Wizzup_ | that is odd |
| 12:41.07 | FIQ|n900 | hmm interesting, I have os.py and os.pyo but not os.pyc in that directory.. and I tried to set PYTHONPATH manually (it was not set before - just tried) and it successfully imported that module, however now it errors on another module... will try to see where it is in case I need something else in that path as well |
| 12:41.08 | psycho_oreos | http://sprunge.us/IdCF <-- my mount output, if you'll excuse my excessive use of ext3 here *ahem* :) |
| 12:41.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: zhere's a --ignore-vermagic OWTTE option to modprobe |
| 12:41.19 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, That's the reason why :) |
| 12:41.54 | FIQ|n900 | s/- just tried/- as seen on echo $PYTHONPATH/ |
| 12:42.02 | Wizzup_ | thx,will be back soon |
| 12:43.20 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, I'd also start checking on mount as DocScrutinizer05 pointed out. |
| 12:43.30 | FIQ|n900 | yes which I just did |
| 12:43.38 | FIQ|n900 | in addition, the mounts @python seems to have no issues, see http://sprunge.us/IYWL |
| 12:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | strange |
| 12:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | you start to qualify for a strace session ;-) |
| 12:45.41 | psycho_oreos | ponders if the issue might also be to do with older versions of python libraries (hence lacking the necessary facility within their respective postinst) to work properly. |
| 12:46.03 | FIQ|n900 | (non-localized http://sprunge.us/eeRh ) |
| 12:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: not needed ;-D |
| 12:46.40 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up |
| 12:46.56 | FIQ|n900 | and interestingly it did not go all well |
| 12:47.00 | psycho_oreos | Ahh the only difference is what was written on top, not needed :) I know what the content says :D. |
| 12:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:47.14 | FIQ|n900 | [14:46:39] <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up - like that optfs restoration yesterday |
| 12:47.16 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, that's your answer. |
| 12:47.41 | psycho_oreos | <FIQ|n900> and interestingly it did not go all well <--- That could be the source of the issues. |
| 12:47.50 | FIQ|n900 | yes |
| 12:47.55 | FIQ|n900 | will paste apt results sec |
| 12:50.13 | psycho_oreos | I somewhat would also like to think the issues with these are happening is also because you nuked /opt. It sort of makes programs walk on "broken tiles". |
| 12:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | suddenly feels sick, considering that some python programs might now (after fstab hack) run *before* possibly deferred bindmount of *python 'volumes' |
| 12:51.44 | psycho_oreos | thinks in either case FIQ|n900 is on the way to creating a zombified version of maemo. :) |
| 12:52.05 | psycho_oreos | Lots of hits and misses. I'm guessing python won't be the only solitary issue though. |
| 12:53.37 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: though this issue did exist before optfs restoration as well - but then the reinstall might have worked a little better |
| 12:55.01 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, outstanding issue? o.O |
| 12:55.07 | FIQ|n900 | and at least I don't think I can make it *worse*, if anything, better |
| 12:55.29 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: the optfs restoration was due to a corrupt file system |
| 12:56.05 | FIQ|n900 | itself caused by me not realizing that hard shutdowns might be a bad idea... lol |
| 12:56.05 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, Yeah I know but you had the issue prior to nuking /opt. So it was virtually an issue that you didn't bother to resolve beforehand. |
| 12:56.35 | FIQ|n900 | yeah |
| 12:57.23 | FIQ|n900 | http://sprunge.us/cdAE apt log |
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| 12:58.19 | psycho_oreos | recalls having mount warnings with his microSD about unclean mounts. It was only after.. what, 30+ fsck.ext3 that finally yielded a clean result with the majority of the nokia maps file being corrupted. |
| 12:58.58 | FIQ|n900 | if microSD is ext3, maemo gives an error on mount |
| 12:59.15 | FIQ|n900 | unless you're running a fairly recent version of cssu |
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| 12:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: delete *all* *.pyc |
| 12:59.50 | psycho_oreos | At that time I think I was (somewhat), though I had extra mount params like errors=mount-ro. |
| 13:00.18 | FIQ|n900 | uh huh now that's strange |
| 13:00.22 | psycho_oreos | Hmm the warnings from apt log. Doesn't make much sense when /opt was nuked anyway. |
| 13:00.25 | FIQ|n900 | looking through that log |
| 13:00.37 | FIQ|n900 | reinstall gave lot less errors this time |
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| 13:01.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Some bytecompiled files may be left behind.<< is the key |
| 13:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet |
| 13:01.54 | psycho_oreos | doesn't think there would really be any bytecompiled files be left on a nuked /opt. Though if you restored from an older opt.tar that could be a potential issue. |
| 13:01.57 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: last install it blamed on various modules not being found during the installation |
| 13:02.16 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that's usually the result of you nuking /opt :) |
| 13:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you got an obsolete *.pyc in some place prior in $(PYTHON)PATH than the new *.py, you inevitably run into trouble |
| 13:02.33 | FIQ|n900 | had to reinstall *again* to give a meaningful paste |
| 13:02.44 | FIQ|n900 | in case anyone wonders why I'm implying I did it twice |
| 13:02.55 | FIQ|n900 | including the above mentioned os, and some others as well |
| 13:02.57 | psycho_oreos | Probably a good idea at the time would be to forcibly remove dead packages and reinstall them. That way apt won't complain (well hopefully). |
| 13:03.30 | FIQ|n900 | er, last line was @ [15:01:56] <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: last install it blamed on various modules not being found during the installation |
| 13:03.35 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: hmm maybe |
| 13:04.26 | FIQ|n900 | that's interesting |
| 13:04.27 | psycho_oreos | Well in either case I'd say go with DocScrutinizer05's suggestion. Clean out old python stuff (after removing python) and then reinstall python again. |
| 13:04.43 | FIQ|n900 | the first reinstall didn't solve anything - the second reinstall seems to have solved everything |
| 13:04.50 | psycho_oreos | That should get rid of the leftover junk and start fresh... well hopefully. |
| 13:04.51 | FIQ|n900 | because now stuff seem to work |
| 13:05.21 | psycho_oreos | Partially, remember that you had to use $PYTHONHOME because it could not find os.pyc. |
| 13:05.38 | FIQ|n900 | yes true |
| 13:05.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is odd |
| 13:05.49 | psycho_oreos | All that leftover ancient files could cause the confusion. |
| 13:06.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | *.pyc, yes |
| 13:06.24 | FIQ|n900 | but DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:06.31 | FIQ|n900 | don't know if you saw me mention it earlier |
| 13:06.45 | FIQ|n900 | but I didn't have *any* .pyc files in that directory before |
| 13:06.56 | psycho_oreos | No guarantees/recommendations here because you do realise you are trying to do something that probably hardly any users have encountered :) |
| 13:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the whole point |
| 13:07.00 | FIQ|n900 | (though I did have .py and .pyo files) |
| 13:07.10 | psycho_oreos | Its the leftover junk/cruft. |
| 13:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you possibly got some in some *other* dir |
| 13:07.41 | psycho_oreos | It also could be the issue with restoring old opt.tar. I'm sure it works but to a lesser extent it does. |
| 13:07.46 | FIQ|n900 | (though now I have some as I reinstalled) |
| 13:07.53 | FIQ|n900 | so basically |
| 13:08.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I have nfc what's .pyo, probably something similar to .pyc |
| 13:08.11 | FIQ|n900 | I should remove all .pyc files, including the newly created files |
| 13:08.22 | FIQ|n900 | and reinstall all python packages again? |
| 13:08.22 | psycho_oreos | iinm, .pyo is compiled (binary blob) of .pyc. |
| 13:09.01 | psycho_oreos | Probably uninstall python first (if you could and to make it not uninstall other packages that depends on python like for instance mobilehotspot). |
| 13:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik .pyc is compiled with symbolic names, while .pyo is compiled w/o symbols |
| 13:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway both are dynamically created by python interpreter afaik |
| 13:09.38 | psycho_oreos | Ahh I tend to think .pyc is more human readable than .pyo. .pyo is all literally machine code (hence compiled). |
| 13:10.47 | psycho_oreos | Remove python packages via apt (hopefully.. or use dpkg if you can somehow make it not uninstall MH), then clean out remaining python junk left in /opt/python. Then reinstall python through apt. |
| 13:10.57 | psycho_oreos | That might be the best idea imho. |
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| 13:11.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:12.25 | psycho_oreos | Don't remove stuff in /opt/python then remove via dpkg/apt.. you'll make dpkg/apt even more messed up about python stuff, let them know that you don't want python junk so when it comes to reinstalling it will know from its own database that you have previously removed it. |
| 13:13.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc there's a --purge parameter to some of that apt/dpkg stuff |
| 13:13.39 | FIQ|n900 | remove or purge? |
| 13:13.43 | FIQ|n900 | @ dpkg |
| 13:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly useful here |
| 13:13.47 | psycho_oreos | *nods* purge is probably more cleaner. |
| 13:14.13 | psycho_oreos | I'd also make sure neither of them complain about removing things like MH which depends on python that is to be removed. |
| 13:14.31 | psycho_oreos | Whichever you choose, purge would be cleaner iinm. |
| 13:14.48 | Pali | hello, any qt guru here? I need output backtrace when some signal is emitted. Any idea if qt has some object/slot for that? |
| 13:14.52 | psycho_oreos | Or even remove, then purge, purge just gets rid of leftover conf files for instance. |
| 13:17.17 | psycho_oreos | Pali, not sure but you can try #qt. According to alis, there's 505 users/bots in that channel. |
| 13:17.47 | Pali | ok |
| 13:18.32 | Pali | I know only about GNU/linux backtrace() function in execinfo.h (man 3 backtrace) |
| 13:18.37 | psycho_oreos | hopes they can fix the issue rather than pointing you back into channels like these :) where its all maemo/meego centric and there's no active Qt gurus active (or at least it seems). |
| 13:19.30 | psycho_oreos | has very vague information about all of what you said :/ lol. Not a developer so most of this is really flying above my head. |
| 13:19.47 | psycho_oreos | o.O |
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| 13:21.24 | FIQ|n900 | ok, everything was removed fine apart from some directories (the bindmounted ones) |
| 13:21.32 | FIQ|n900 | w/o manual intervention required |
| 13:21.37 | FIQ|n900 | now installing again |
| 13:22.10 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, don't forget to purge and manually remove any leftover cruft/junk. |
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| 13:22.59 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: everything was removed as I said, checked all python directories |
| 13:23.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: o.O indeed. Pali has strange habits |
| 13:24.01 | FIQ|n900 | (the directories themselves was left intact due to bindmounts and I left them like that as I don't want reinstalling them to fill my rootfs |
| 13:24.14 | FIQ|n900 | ) |
| 13:25.19 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, ok that's good. Just don't want to hear apt/dpkg complaining again all of the sudden. Its only wild guesses from here on in, into fixing python. |
| 13:25.35 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer05, heh do tell me :D |
| 13:26.12 | FIQ|n900 | python installation gave no errors this time |
| 13:26.18 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, I have for some wild guess those bind mounts may get recreated once you installed base python stuff. |
| 13:26.47 | FIQ|n900 | psycho_oreos: well dpkg -P attempted to remove the directories - failing due to bindmounts |
| 13:26.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: for bindmounts see pymaemo-optify - PyMaemo optification package |
| 13:27.01 | FIQ|n900 | so my assumption is that apt would not redo the bindmounts |
| 13:27.03 | psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, ahh |
| 13:27.25 | psycho_oreos | Seems like DocScrutinizer05 has pointed out a vital clue here as well. |
| 13:28.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | was some real fun when that pkg got propagated |
| 13:28.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | must've been back in time when PR1.2 came out |
| 13:29.12 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 13:29.37 | FIQ|n900 | I wonder if there's a quick straightforward way to ask apt about missing files in every single package |
| 13:29.55 | FIQ|n900 | so I would be able to clean up after that optfs thing |
| 13:29.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, there is some tool doing that |
| 13:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if it's apt or some supplementary tool though, or even dpkg-* |
| 13:30.18 | FIQ|n900 | simply looking for runaway symlinks isn't enough as some packages install themselves to /opt directly |
| 13:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | a really annoying habit |
| 13:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had a real dispute with iirc shapeshifter about alarmed NOT installing a symlink |
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| 13:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I consider that a flaw for a cmdline tool to not be available anywhere in usual $PATH |
| 13:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/etc# ll `which alarmed` |
| 13:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2011-06-20 15:53 /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py |
| 13:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | had to create that myself |
| 13:32.51 | FIQ|n900 | also sorry for being clueless occasionally with some stuff regarding things like this |
| 13:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | no reason for feeling sorry |
| 13:33.09 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer05: heh |
| 13:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we all started learning about that stuff |
| 13:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | some time |
| 13:34.53 | FIQ|n900 | N900 was my first serious step into slightly more complex parts of linux, i.e. before I got a n900 I barely knew what "cd" did lol |
| 13:34.56 | FIQ|n900 | oh well, afk |
| 13:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ|n900: you're clearly willing to learn. so it's a please to help you |
| 13:35.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pleasure* |
| 13:35.50 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure whilst you are experimenting with what we have suggested, we too are in the process of learning as well. |
| 13:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 13:36.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is why we're all in here doing what we do, isn't it? |
| 13:36.17 | psycho_oreos | Its not exactly a "one way street" where we knew what the answer was and could give you a direct answer. |
| 13:36.23 | psycho_oreos | yup :) |
| 13:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~question |
| 13:36.51 | infobot | methinks question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 13:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | has some nice chapters about that |
| 13:37.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a recommended read even for experienced hackers |
| 13:37.53 | psycho_oreos | dpkg -S I found tells me what files belongs to which package. Though I haven't found a single command that could do it easily. If you could get "find" to output broken symlinks then you maybe able to get dpkg -S to show which broken symlink belonged to which deb. |
| 13:37.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I try to read it at least twice a year |
| 13:38.26 | psycho_oreos | hehe I've read that page numerous times, very interesting stuff even though not everyone follows it closely. |
| 13:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's hard to follow it closely, but it gives you a perspective each time you read it |
| 13:39.40 | psycho_oreos | I get a little annoyed when people just say "X is broken" "please help", and then you have to start digging clues out of them to get a basic/general understanding of their setup. |
| 13:40.01 | Lava_Croft | people who says X is broken are correct |
| 13:40.04 | psycho_oreos | Also I guess its also a good reminder to ask questions the "right" way as well. |
| 13:40.06 | Lava_Croft | and it cant be helped |
| 13:40.37 | psycho_oreos | Its not the program can't be helped, its more like an issue with pebkac ;) |
| 13:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp5285344 |
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| 13:42.03 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I've sometimes thought of that as well, but it can get a little irritating when you're also dealing with a situation on hand from your end as well and there's nobody else responding. |
| 13:43.07 | psycho_oreos | At times certain commands "collide" when you're helping others on X distro when you're on Y distro. |
| 13:44.14 | psycho_oreos | Having to think what the command "equivalent" was to match their case. |
| 13:45.48 | psycho_oreos | thinks right now there might be a hackish way to output dpkg -L| echo $i| find $i when say for instance under archlinux, pacman -Ql by default lists the name of the package along with the files owned by that package. |
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| 13:47.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, you can craft some cmdline wizardry |
| 13:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you also can talk the person you try to help thru using all the tools actually available |
| 13:48.16 | psycho_oreos | That and the sort of "hackers" way to fix things ;) hackish attempts |
| 13:49.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | example of a useful cmdline wizardry: man md|less +"/If an array is created" |
| 13:50.33 | psycho_oreos | The power of pipe combined with BASH scripting ;) |
| 13:51.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you wouldn't want to talk the helpee thru less(1) basics |
| 13:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | or tell them "look at line 255 of `man md´" |
| 13:53.05 | psycho_oreos | In that case I guess grep maybe useful here ;) |
| 13:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, not really unless you want to "quote" a very strictly defined limited section out of some text |
| 13:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | man md|less +"/If an array is created" -j 9 |
| 13:55.21 | psycho_oreos | Yeah that would be a little difficult. |
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| 13:56.29 | psycho_oreos | I just searched, there's dpkg -C but doubt it's usefulness. |
| 14:00.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | man bash|less +"/^[^a-z]*SIGNALS" |
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| 14:17.10 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: so I guess you have kernel-power from extras-devel? |
| 14:18.05 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, yup |
| 14:18.18 | Wizzup_ | as well as fcam |
| 14:18.25 | Wizzup_ | okay, I'll try that, does blessn900 work with that fcam driver? |
| 14:19.01 | psycho_oreos | afaik yes. |
| 14:19.43 | Wizzup_ | (I really just want blessn900, but I guess I can upgrade the power kernel) |
| 14:20.20 | psycho_oreos | You might be able to just get away with newer fcam-drivers insntead of new power kernel. Though I'm not sure. |
| 14:20.21 | Wizzup_ | tbh I don't understand why the current ``stable'' fcam driver don't work with my power kernel |
| 14:20.30 | Wizzup_ | doesn't* |
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| 14:21.44 | psycho_oreos | Which version do you have just curiously. |
| 14:22.15 | Wizzup_ | 2.6.28.10-power50 |
| 14:22.47 | psycho_oreos | Err my bad not kp version, fcam-drivers version. |
| 14:23.33 | Wizzup_ | 0.7.1 I think, let me check |
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| 14:24.27 | Wizzup_ | http://maemo.org/packages/view/fcam-drivers/ shows why there's a -2 |
| 14:24.33 | Wizzup_ | just not sure for what powerkernel that is |
| 14:24.38 | mancha | ok folks. my n800 suddenly stoped working. it turns on and seems to boot but the screen just cycles though some weird vertical stripes then a flash on the whole screen then black |
| 14:24.41 | psycho_oreos | dpkg -l fcam-drivers| awk '{ print $3 }' |
| 14:25.02 | mancha | the only thing i did was charge it several times last night. ideas? |
| 14:25.50 | psycho_oreos | What did you do before this issue started happening? |
| 14:25.51 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: 1.0.7-1 |
| 14:26.33 | mancha | downloaded some maps last nite in maemo mapper. that's it. |
| 14:26.34 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, that should work with kp50 afaik. It works with kp52 but its been awhile since I looked into what could be the issue. |
| 14:26.46 | Wizzup_ | I'll upgrade kp |
| 14:27.11 | psycho_oreos | doesn't know if that'll necessarily fix the problems though. |
| 14:27.11 | Wizzup_ | ah, I should move on with my uinput-mapper package soon... |
| 14:27.15 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: we'll see |
| 14:28.04 | mancha | help! |
| 14:28.05 | psycho_oreos | Some files within kp (at least 52) has kernel version specific fcam provided kernel drivers. I'm not sure have they been merged. |
| 14:29.09 | psycho_oreos | mancha, I misread :/ I thought it was N900 you are talking about not N800. I was going to suggest it could be issue with bootlooping and low battery. I don't have N800 so I don't know I'm afraid. |
| 14:29.39 | mancha | could i have fried my battery? |
| 14:30.06 | psycho_oreos | Unlikely unless you charged your battery with some other device. |
| 14:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: possible, but i'm afraid your problem is more severe than that |
| 14:30.21 | mancha | DocScrutinizer05: how can the thing just go bad all of a sudden? |
| 14:30.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | like all things do |
| 14:31.20 | mancha | is there some kind of safe boot? |
| 14:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, not that I know of |
| 14:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't own N800 though |
| 14:31.52 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: hm, extras-devel is suggesting 51r1 |
| 14:32.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | what battery does N800 use? |
| 14:32.34 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, *grr at whoever is playing with the repository* you can probably install kp52 from Pali's own repository or manually. |
| 14:32.35 | mancha | bp-5l |
| 14:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | what when you plug it into charger? |
| 14:33.20 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: my ``Distribution'' is set to fremantle-1.3, I hope that makes sense |
| 14:33.21 | mancha | nothing |
| 14:33.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 14:33.29 | Wizzup_ | that's the only think I can imagine that may be different |
| 14:35.04 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, I don't think that would be relevant. Its the issue with the repository still showing 51r1. *looks at his fapman repository configuration*. |
| 14:35.22 | Wizzup_ | aha |
| 14:35.39 | psycho_oreos | I wouldn't recommend using fapman either :) |
| 14:35.47 | Wizzup_ | no, people told me this a few years ago |
| 14:35.48 | Wizzup_ | ;-) |
| 14:36.28 | mancha | DocScrutinizer05: it's the batter. |
| 14:36.30 | psycho_oreos | issues an update and checks via apt-cache on kp52. |
| 14:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: glad to hear that |
| 14:37.07 | psycho_oreos | mancha, so a replacement battery worked? |
| 14:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: that may make a friggin lot of difference, since during migration#1 the fremantle vs fremantle-1.3 duality got messed up |
| 14:38.19 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: getting fcam-drivers from devel worked |
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| 14:38.27 | mancha | no, but aside from the screen, the bootup sound is faint. |
| 14:38.45 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, 1.0.7-2?? |
| 14:38.47 | Wizzup_ | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I recall setting it to -1.3 was the right thing to do, I think I did it properly |
| 14:38.50 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: yes |
| 14:38.51 | mancha | it seems like it's not getting the right charge...i bet i fried the battery by leaving it plugged in all night |
| 14:39.01 | Wizzup_ | psycho_oreos: which is also kind of what his change message says |
| 14:39.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup_: the sad truth is: right now there is no "right" setting |
| 14:39.13 | Wizzup_ | at http://maemo.org/packages/view/fcam-drivers/ |
| 14:39.18 | Wizzup_ | DocScrutinizer05: nice ;-) |
| 14:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
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| 14:39.28 | psycho_oreos | Wizzup_, *nods* I thought that was just some custom one I built (when I was tinkering with abc). I never knew that was in extras-devel. |
| 14:40.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle-1.3 used to be a symlink to fremantle |
| 14:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | during migration#1 that got messed up, just doing a mirror or whatever of the repo, and that created TWO repos: fremantle and fremantle-1.3 |
| 14:41.02 | mancha | do0es a dead battery sound plausible? |
| 14:41.05 | Wizzup_ | heh |
| 14:41.15 | psycho_oreos | mancha, I guess it goes back to what DocScrutinizer05 said earlier, sounds like its more severe. I guess there's probably multiple issues, though one step at a time helps I guess. |
| 14:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | up to anybody's guess which action adresses which repo, also in autobuilder and repo-management |
| 14:42.19 | psycho_oreos | mancha, its hard to say :) two of us has admitted we don't own N800, so its hard to know what the problem is if we don't know much about it. |
| 14:42.56 | mancha | psycho_oreos: why do you both assume something more seirous? |
| 14:43.48 | psycho_oreos | mancha, to me personally the colour stripes showing on the screen before going black. Prior to that you installed a maps software, it might also be screen playing up but hard to know. |
| 14:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: because bad battery usually doesn't cause atrifacts on screen |
| 14:44.59 | psycho_oreos | What happens if you tried plugging the charger in whilst having the "dead/bad battery" in place? Does N800 still boot? |
| 14:45.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik N8x0 should kinda work with a battery of any quality and charge, as long as plugged into charger |
| 14:46.05 | psycho_oreos | Yeah I thought of the same thing as well. At least on N900 you can see the nokia logo before it dies and tries to go back into emergency charge mode. |
| 14:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | it *might* shut down with battery-low or battery-defect signal |
| 14:46.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I never heard of artifacts on screen |
| 14:47.08 | psycho_oreos | Or the battery is simply too faulty that it fails to even allow charging when power is plugged in. |
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| 14:47.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | as usual, a comlete reflash might help to distinguish hw from any sw problems |
| 14:47.37 | psycho_oreos | Either way, its weird but its beyond my knowledge... I'm virtually stabbing in the dark here. |
| 14:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you just get a replacement battery |
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| 14:48.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and check if things change |
| 14:48.20 | mancha | well you guys are a very pessimistic bunch. you're real downers. |
| 14:48.23 | psycho_oreos | One step at a time :) |
| 14:48.39 | psycho_oreos | mancha, do you have a better suggestion as to what it might be? :) |
| 14:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we aren't |
| 14:48.48 | mancha | "i don't own an n800 so i have no fucking clue what's up but i'll just pull out my ass it's super serious" :) |
| 14:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~joerg |
| 14:49.09 | infobot | joerg is, like, a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer |
| 14:49.25 | psycho_oreos | We've given you a likely scenario on N900's case. |
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| 14:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: I'm just stating that I don't have N800 to make clear my statements are based on N810 and N900 and general knowledge of embedded hardware |
| 14:50.23 | psycho_oreos | The least you could do is try to solve the problem one at a time, first plug it into wall charger with battery in place. If it still doesn't boot, get a replacement battery, if it doesn't boot its probably the screen at fault (or others). |
| 14:50.35 | mancha | ok, if the battery got fried, it's old. and the cells leaked, can this not be providing less volage/amperage than is needed to power the lcd display? |
| 14:50.41 | mancha | question for the EE :) |
| 14:51.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | still no chance to create artifacts, on all embedded devices I know |
| 14:51.26 | mancha | why not? |
| 14:51.50 | psycho_oreos | Probably because of the way its designed I gather. |
| 14:51.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | because hw doesn't work that way usually, unless my colleagues messed up N800 fubar |
| 14:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I've seen similar artifacts caused by other hw defects |
| 14:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | but never by battery |
| 14:53.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually your error description is very similar to what you get on N900 when flex connector is broken |
| 14:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | now the N800 doesn't have a flex connector for all I know |
| 14:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it doesn't have a slide-out kbd |
| 14:54.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway N8x0 battery charging is notorious fubar, and I suggest you get a spare battery to check |
| 14:55.16 | psycho_oreos | The very least you could do is try the suggestion I mention beforehand. I'm not an EE, I don't own a N800 but I'm giving you advice from what a N900 user would try otherwise. |
| 14:55.51 | mancha | it boots. |
| 14:56.03 | mancha | but i can't see anything cause the screen is fucked. |
| 14:56.06 | psycho_oreos | If it boots with power in place, then its probably a faulty battery. |
| 14:56.17 | mancha | cmon dude. |
| 14:56.22 | psycho_oreos | Yeah sounds like possible multiple issues. |
| 14:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, when LCD still fux0red then it's a hw defect |
| 14:56.27 | mancha | no way |
| 14:56.46 | psycho_oreos | mancha, what do you think it is? that it is our fault? |
| 14:56.48 | mancha | look, multiple issues don't just happen out of the blue at the same time. sorry that dog don't hunt. |
| 14:57.12 | mancha | if the multiple issues are related somehow then i'll bite, otherwise it's just nonsense. |
| 14:57.12 | psycho_oreos | I hate to say this but N800 is an aging device. |
| 14:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | he meant multiple alternative causes |
| 14:57.31 | mancha | oh i see. |
| 14:57.32 | psycho_oreos | N900 is facing the same path as well. |
| 14:57.43 | mancha | that's irrelevant whether it's an aging device. |
| 14:57.58 | psycho_oreos | Electronics generally don't *last* forever. |
| 14:58.08 | mancha | i've not used it much and more important are usage cycles. |
| 14:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | well |
| 14:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a damn spare battery! |
| 14:59.01 | SAiF | lol |
| 14:59.03 | psycho_oreos | I know old PSU outputs less power gradually over time before the machine (should the motherboard be intelligent enough) to prevent the machine from booting if PSU is simply not outputting enough power. That's one use case with aging electronics from what I know. |
| 14:59.23 | mancha | DocScrutinizer05: trying to find a store now. |
| 14:59.28 | mancha | the battery is prolly 10 years old |
| 14:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | reasonably considered dead |
| 14:59.54 | psycho_oreos | Batteries also doesn't last forever as well.. the case is very evident when it comes to laptops. |
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| 15:00.24 | psycho_oreos | You don't see a 10 year old laptop with 10 year old battery working like brand spanking new from the shops. |
| 15:01.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly when your device boots up and acts in reasonable ways to input, just doesn't display on LCD anymore, then you do _not_ have battery issue |
| 15:01.47 | mancha | it sorta boots, sometimes faint boot sound othertimes nothing |
| 15:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | when your device shuts down any time, by whatever nasty procedure, then you *might* have a battery problem |
| 15:01.53 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure almost every PC technician goes by the general rule of thumb, and that is to try one thing at a time.. if this doesn't work try that, if that doesn't work try another. |
| 15:01.54 | mancha | i think it's on last legs |
| 15:02.14 | psycho_oreos | There's no secret about debugging hardware issues. |
| 15:02.22 | mancha | DocScrutinizer05: does the n800 have the ability to run batteryless (plugged in) |
| 15:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally not |
| 15:02.34 | mancha | ok |
| 15:02.47 | mancha | so can't test that way... |
| 15:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 15:02.55 | mancha | best buy has no bp-5l's |
| 15:02.57 | mancha | the fuck |
| 15:03.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise we had suggested to you already |
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| 15:05.01 | psycho_oreos | To be frank I would leave DocScrutinizer05 to answer that one, I personally don't know of anyone that owns N800 out where I live. I've only seen very few N900 owners. |
| 15:05.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | N810 (BP-4) works with BL-5J as well, when you press it to the contacts |
| 15:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | (BP-4L) |
| 15:06.22 | mancha | ok folks, you've been very helpful and i've been crabby (pissed at my "broken" hw) |
| 15:06.32 | mancha | i'll get a replacement battery and start there. |
| 15:06.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I feel with you |
| 15:06.53 | mancha | if that doesn't work, then it's game over right? nokia won't service this dinosaur, yes? |
| 15:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | see if you maybe borrow a battery from another device that has identical battery contacts |
| 15:07.16 | psycho_oreos | We all will probably go into denial at first with aging stuff. Its inevitable as we try to clamber on the remains. |
| 15:07.20 | mancha | i tried from my phone and the contacts don't line up :/ |
| 15:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | they won't service it anymore I guess. But it can't hurt to ask - if worst case hits you |
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| 15:08.03 | psycho_oreos | You might be able to source N800 screen and go from there. The only question from here on in lies in how much money will you want to fork in on the device alone to resurrect it. |
| 15:09.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: I'd almost bet BP-4L and BP-5L have identical battery contacts, so BL-5J should work for you as well. It can be found in quite a number of devices from Nokia |
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| 15:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: just *carefully* compare writing on your battery and on spare other model battery for same "signals" on same pins (GND or (-), (+), and some "BSI" or whatever on middle contact probably) |
| 15:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops nope!!! |
| 15:12.02 | psycho_oreos | imagines a few years ahead in time one will probably see N900 dying/withering away. |
| 15:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | on middle is GND/- |
| 15:12.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "BSI" is opposite of (+) |
| 15:13.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | (+) is on corner of battery, BSI to the center |
| 15:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | you also can tell GND/- contact in device - it's a tiny bit longer than other two |
| 15:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | mmmpf, on N810 both + and - are longer, and BSI is the only shorter one |
| 15:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably same on N900 |
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| 15:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, good luck |
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| 15:17.05 | mancha | it's not the battery |
| 15:18.01 | psycho_oreos | So now the case continues on possibly the screen being the issue.. either the screen or otherwise. |
| 15:18.24 | psycho_oreos | Err the screen, its connectors or otherwise. |
| 15:18.41 | mancha | i have a bootloader on it. wonder if i should reflash with factory |
| 15:19.10 | psycho_oreos | The idea of reflashing was suggested earlier on by DocScrutinizer05. |
| 15:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it's only the screen then you probably can reflash |
| 15:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it's only software then you can reflash |
| 15:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it's some problem with main hw components like CPU/SoC then you will face severe problems no matter what you try to do |
| 15:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | mancha: how did you make sure it's not the battery? |
| 15:23.35 | mancha | i connected a gps battery which is also 3.7 volts and if i held it in place the contacts touched. |
| 15:23.43 | mancha | the thing boots the same way...with artifacts. |
| 15:24.07 | mancha | i will try reflashing now. |
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| 15:24.20 | Apic | Good Luck. |
| 15:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that rules out battery |
| 15:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 15:26.14 | infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 15:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | for you: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Updating_the_firmware&oldid=17120 |
| 15:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can use flasher-3.5 nevertheless |
| 15:31.46 | mancha | reflash was successful and problem is unfixed. |
| 15:33.07 | mancha | the thing's bricked |
| 15:34.35 | Apic | B-( |
| 15:35.21 | psycho_oreos | Bricked? o.O |
| 15:35.37 | mancha | well i didn't brick it in the flash |
| 15:35.45 | mancha | i mean the flash was successful and the problem remains. |
| 15:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, LCD or controller od SoC's video engine defect |
| 15:36.24 | mancha | and that can just go bad? |
| 15:36.34 | mancha | out of the fuckin' blue? |
| 15:36.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or sth as simple as connectors |
| 15:37.04 | psycho_oreos | I believe someone mentioned with electronics, its either 1 or 0, Alive or dead, there's no in-between. |
| 15:37.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, chips can go defect in an instant |
| 15:37.43 | Apic | Sad. |
| 15:38.16 | psycho_oreos | Inevitably electronics are what humans made. Inperfect as they are just as we are inperfect ourselves. |
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| 15:40.29 | psycho_oreos | s/inp/imp/ |
| 15:40.46 | psycho_oreos | bah, case sensitive. |
| 15:41.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you forgot /g anyway |
| 15:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | abcabcabcabc |
| 15:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/b/B/ |
| 15:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/b/B/g |
| 15:41.49 | mancha | well. thanks all. this sucks. i'll go sulk now. |
| 15:42.00 | mancha | be well. |
| 15:42.02 | psycho_oreos | aBcabcAbc |
| 15:42.23 | psycho_oreos | s/a/A/g |
| 15:42.36 | psycho_oreos | *shrugs* |
| 15:43.16 | *** part/#maemo mancha (mancha@unaffiliated/mancha) |
| 15:43.16 | psycho_oreos | mancha, there's still hope. you could try with another LCD to see if its LCD that's faulty or if its really the SoC video engine dead. |
| 15:43.26 | psycho_oreos | bah. |
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| 15:58.44 | Guest45047 | hi how to change font in nokia n900?? |
| 15:59.44 | Guest45047 | anyone here? |
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| 16:04.12 | qwerty123 | changing font on nokia n900?? |
| 16:07.16 | qwerty123 | ?? anyone here/ |
| 16:07.35 | brzys | Nope |
| 16:07.42 | Apic | Yes, but no Idea how to change the Font. |
| 16:07.50 | Apic | It's normal X11, so it should not be _too_ difficult. |
| 16:08.07 | Apic | I think the Terminal App has Functionality to change the Font it uses. |
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| 16:08.55 | qwerty123 | theme customizer changes the font. but i need to change the font of the textbox in vkb |
| 16:09.29 | qwerty123 | rest, as far as i can see, font has been changed xcpt for the textbox of vkb |
| 16:12.06 | psycho_oreos | Have you tried searching/posting thread on tmo as well? |
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| 18:32.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | DAMN!! was it THAT qwerty123? |
| 18:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not |
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| 18:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also guess he been called qwerty12 |
| 18:34.32 | psycho_oreos | I somehow doubt it'll be him. (qwerty12) |
| 18:34.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
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| 18:38.43 | kerio | dat freenode |
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| 18:46.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | uh? |
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| 19:27.12 | FIQ|n900 | hi |
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| 19:27.25 | FIQ|n900 | well this os issue I had earlier |
| 19:27.37 | FIQ|n900 | was apparently caused *solely* by the optfs restoration |
| 19:27.51 | FIQ|n900 | because, now, the "normal" issue of that just returned |
| 19:28.01 | FIQ|n900 | i.e. the one where reboots solved it |
| 19:28.26 | FIQ|n900 | set PYTHONHOME manually |
| 19:28.30 | FIQ|n900 | nothing |
| 19:28.33 | FIQ|n900 | I checked the lib directory in case it was missing |
| 19:28.47 | FIQ|n900 | and found something interesting - there was *nothing* there |
| 19:28.51 | FIQ|n900 | checked mountpoints |
| 19:30.12 | FIQ|n900 | and for some reason python failed to be mounted correctly, because all python mountpoints isn't there (none is) |
| 19:30.13 | FIQ|n900 | i.e. the bindmounts to /opt/pymaemo |
| 19:30.16 | FIQ|n900 | issuing "mount" fixes this issue |
| 19:30.30 | FIQ|n900 | but what causes it in first place? |
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| 19:33.11 | FIQ|n900 | I also noticed that this was the first time (since then) where the clock was reset to jan 1 |
| 19:33.16 | FIQ|n900 | perhaps that's related in some way? |
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| 19:44.00 | FredrIQ|n900 | hi again |
| 19:44.27 | FredrIQ|n900 | http://sprunge.us/fJJc perhaps that can give any clue to why python stuff isn't mounted occasionally but I don't know |
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| 19:46.32 | FredrIQ|n900 | (also, if you know a better method to get a single session than cat -n syslog | grep syslog, see the relevant line number, and do cat syslog | tail -n +4890 | pastebin, that would be nice to know of lol) |
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| 19:51.16 | FredrIQ|n900 | the last reboot was fully clean (battery died, I swapped battery, and started up again) |
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| 19:58.29 | FredrIQ|n900 | uh huh? |
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| 20:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | freenode has issues it seems |
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| 20:31.42 | FIQ|n900 | so.. any ideas regarding my issue? |
| 20:31.54 | FIQ|n900 | dunno wtf happened with freenode lol |
| 20:34.20 | nox- | stupid kids |
| 20:34.23 | nox- | would be my guess |
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| 22:26.15 | rlinfati | DocScrutinizer51, hey, the extras-devel repository has some md5/sha1sum checksum error , see https://pastee.org/9u47z |
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| 22:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 22:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 22:34.48 | FIQ|n900 | hmm |
| 22:34.57 | FIQ|n900 | I've used a N900 for umm |
| 22:35.04 | FIQ|n900 | when was it released? |
| 22:35.30 | FIQ|n900 | end of 2010 or something like that, wasn't it? |
| 22:37.13 | FIQ|n900 | oh wait |
| 22:37.17 | FIQ|n900 | it was 2009 |
| 22:37.19 | FIQ|n900 | omg |
| 22:37.31 | FIQ|n900 | I've used this thing for over three years |
| 22:37.37 | FIQ|n900 | that's crazy lol |
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