IRC log for #maemo on 20130712

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00:16.16chainsawbiken900's are fairly tough though... mine lives in my pocket outside my body armour when i am riding my dirt bike - it has survived numerous crashes unscathed...
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08:48.05Apichttps://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/255018_10152027777808272_2089311588_n.jpg
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08:49.12sivanghi all
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08:49.48sivangit has been a while since I logged into this channel, glad to see everybody are still here
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09:03.54Venemo_N9~usbfix
09:03.54infobotrumour has it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)
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10:55.39DocScrutinizer05moos at evil daystar
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11:10.36jaskawerecow
11:15.40DocScrutinizer05hehe
11:17.28DocScrutinizer05>> No Real Programmer works 9 to 5. (Unless it's the ones at night.) << ( http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html )
11:18.13Lava_Croftso 80s
11:19.59DocScrutinizer05so hard to get right. The text always jumps between sarcasm, cynicism, and damn true statements
11:20.15Lava_CroftYeah, but the romantic idea of a'
11:20.28Lava_Crofter of a 'programmer' is actually not so romantic and its 20years old
11:20.38Lava_Croftand its overly disgustingly male
11:20.46Lava_Croftto the point of saturation
11:21.02DocScrutinizer05except in "Real Programmers don't wear high heeled shoes."
11:21.03Lava_Croftprobably also the reason why just about any piece of software is shit
11:21.08Lava_Croft:)
11:22.54DocScrutinizer05probably it lacks a "Real Programmers don't participate in emancipation and gender discussions."
11:23.50DocScrutinizer05though implicitly included, we have "A Real Programmer goes to discos to watch the light shows."
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11:24.35Lava_Croft:)
11:24.57jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I was once told by a lead programmer to *avoid* multithread code
11:25.03jon_ythat real enough yet?
11:25.20jon_yshe says it makes code hard to read and understand
11:25.26DocScrutinizer05it's a pity that natural languages have a ubiquitous concept of gender
11:25.49Lava_Croftit's a pity that was is called a 'real programmer' is always this bro-tastic male person
11:25.59jon_yalso, make sure to hang the main UI so that our users know our app is busy
11:27.04jon_ydefinitely not bro for rejecting multithreaded and responsive code
11:27.53DocScrutinizer05from a code efficiency perspective it's just insane to bother about the 2% of female programmers
11:28.22Lava_Croftthat is implying code is effecient :)
11:28.23DocScrutinizer05I guess wemon are too smart to act like real programers
11:28.39Lava_Crofthealthy dose of female improves anything that is overly male
11:28.56DocScrutinizer05code is efficient inside a gzip archive
11:29.36DocScrutinizer05yes, alas we're far away from anything like a healthy dose of female in IT
11:29.45jon_yinstead of a hung UI, why not make a modal progress bar window?
11:29.53jon_yNope, multithreaded code is ugly
11:30.06amin007110is thinking about: Does restoring those lost+found stuffs have better consequent than reflashing?! according to http://blog.windfluechter.net/content/blog/2011/03/30/1095-updated-automatically-restore-files-lostfound
11:30.37jon_yamin007110: very likely has some corruption in them?
11:30.59DocScrutinizer05women* btw
11:31.37amin007110jon_y, maybe.
11:31.55DocScrutinizer05(code) I consider natural language a code here
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11:32.43jon_ybtw, anybody know if int * a = (int[2]) {1,2}; legal in C?
11:33.01jon_ykind of funky looking but seems to work
11:33.19jon_ynot sure what kind of search term to put in google
11:33.28DocScrutinizer05coding the article http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html in a gender neutral way would cause massive drop in code efficiency, that's just not justified given we talk about maybe 0.1% of female subjects that are trĀ“argeted by that text
11:34.07DocScrutinizer05and those 0.1% would probably feel insulted
11:34.25DocScrutinizer05since they never forget the name of their husband
11:34.55DocScrutinizer05"A Real Programmer might or might not know his wife's name. He does, however, know the entire ASCII (or EBCDIC) code table."
11:36.13jon_ydoes a real programmer do VB?
11:36.26DocScrutinizer05LOL
11:36.43amin007110lol
11:37.05jon_yprobably a troll, I saw one at thedailywtf, he said C should inherit single "=" from VB in if/else comparisons
11:37.23DocScrutinizer05read the article, a Real Programmer does FORTRAN exclusively (except the few assembler things he uses to tackle the problems that can't get done in FORTRAN)
11:37.38jon_yI should learn Fortran
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11:37.56jon_ywith C bindings, cause that's where the party's at
11:39.12jon_yalso, real programmers don't do Agile
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11:40.06jon_yI present to your a custom tree structure in java, with no tree seaarch, nor a way to remove elements after it's added
11:40.28jon_ysince no one thought it through
11:40.49jon_yin fact, it doesn't even have any public methods
11:41.02DocScrutinizer05methods?
11:41.14jon_ypublic interfaces
11:41.15DocScrutinizer05structures?
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11:41.28jon_yusable functions, oop wise
11:41.33DocScrutinizer05not sth a Real Programmer would ever bother with
11:41.36jon_yeverything is inherited
11:41.59jon_ythat kind of bullshit convinced me agile is bullshit
11:42.36jon_ythe reason for such a crappy class was because "customer never asked for anything more that requires it!"
11:43.03jon_yI gave up trying to refactor the code after a few weeks
11:43.29DocScrutinizer05jon_y: you honestly need to read http://www-personal.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/Humour/Real.Programmer.Stories.html
11:43.44jon_ysure
11:44.03jon_yalso, everything that uses the tree struct uses typeof instead of proper inheritance
11:44.21jon_ycompletly neglecting the purose of OOP to begin with
11:44.58DocScrutinizer05>>What of the future? It is a matter of some concern to Real Programmers that the latest generation of computer programmers are not being brought up with the same outlook on life as their elders. Many of them have never seen a computer with a front panel. Hardly anyone graduating from school these days can do hex arithmetic without a calculator. College graduates these days are soft -- protected from the realities of programming by source
11:45.00DocScrutinizer05level debuggers, text editors that count parentheses, and "user friendly" operating systems. Worst of all, some of these alleged "computer scientists" manage to get degrees without ever learning FORTRAN! Are we destined to become an industry of Unix hackers and Pascal programmers?<<
11:45.10jon_y>>Real Programmers aren't afraid to use GOTOs.
11:45.14jon_ySo TRUE
11:45.32jon_yjava doesn't have gotos because it is pretentious
11:45.40jon_yneither does it have unsigned integers
11:46.35jon_yusing for(;;)/break as fake goto in java gets tired after awhile
11:47.12DocScrutinizer05lol
11:47.35jon_yso does dealing with programmers that write shell scripts masquerading as java code
11:47.52DocScrutinizer05hehehehehehehe muhahaha
11:48.06jon_yeg using map instead of set for unique objects
11:48.45DocScrutinizer05in FORTRAN there's no for(;;)
11:48.59jon_ywell, it's java
11:49.05DocScrutinizer05there are calculated goto
11:49.25jon_yI should get promoted to code review nazi at work
11:49.28DocScrutinizer05but nothing you couldn't do with smart self-modifying code
11:50.18jon_yjob should come with an armband and a whip, along with stylish designer uniform
11:52.07DocScrutinizer05you know how COBOL (and so probably FORTAN as well) do subroutine calls? There's no stack. On entering the the subroutine, the return address gets written to the GOTO at end of the subroutine. Funny when you later on run into same code segment by some other means than a subroutine call
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11:53.17jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I bet it's real fun when it gets ported to harvard archs
11:54.08DocScrutinizer05COBOL is per definitionem not multithreaded
11:54.58jon_ywhat about fortran?
11:55.06fizzieIn FORTRAN(-90; not before) you just prepend the word "recursive" in front of subroutine/function, and then the implementation will deal with it however it likes.
11:55.24jon_yrecursive?
11:55.35jon_yit has to be recursive?
11:55.52DocScrutinizer05I guess they meant reentrant
11:56.15jon_ydoes fortran has any concept of static variables?
11:56.37DocScrutinizer05but probably that term wasn't minted yet, when FORTRAN90 got defined
11:57.06jon_yis there a fortran 2003?
11:57.27DocScrutinizer05even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2008
11:57.37jon_yok, 2008
11:58.00DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Fortran_2003 as well
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12:01.29DocScrutinizer05DAMN! FORTRAN2003 introduces function pointers :-D
12:01.44fizzieAnd there's a "save" attribute for persistent local variables (close to that meaning of C's 'static') already in FORTRAN-77.
12:01.47DocScrutinizer05err procedure pointers, ok ok
12:02.16jon_yfunction pointers in my fortran!
12:02.20fizzieAt least they release new versions more often than the C committee.
12:02.36jon_yI'm waiting for my C11
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12:02.51jon_yC99 is pretty complete
12:03.06jon_yso I'm fine even if it was never updated
12:03.37jon_yyou want functors? go back to c++!
12:04.16jon_ydoing c++ style pure virtuals just fine in C too
12:04.49DocScrutinizer05>>Support for international usage [...] and choice of decimal or comma in numeric formatted input/output.<< LOL! COBOL has "DECIMAL POINT IS COMMA" since dunno 1968 or sth
12:05.41jon_y#define , .
12:05.47jon_ysure is fun
12:06.11mgedminis that valid C?
12:06.44fizzieShamefully, no.
12:06.55fizzie(Macro names need to be identifiers.)
12:11.34jon_yspeaking of identifiers, C++ can overload punctuation marks
12:11.44jon_yI'm still wondering how to use them though
12:12.26jon_yoverloaded operator$ or operator->, operator,
12:12.41DocScrutinizer05golden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran#Humor
12:14.35DocScrutinizer05remarks that it's evidently Friday, judging by the topics discussed
12:15.19Gh0styjudging by shit that wont work its friday indeed :(
12:15.46Lava_Croftcasual friday
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12:17.06Lava_Croftok
12:17.08Lava_Croftsince its friday
12:17.14Lava_Crofti have the best movie trailer of the year for you
12:17.15Lava_Crofthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iwsqFR5bh6Q
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12:24.14DocScrutinizer05awesome words: http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/
12:24.36DocScrutinizer05>>Unfortunately their advice has been completely ignored, and today Unix has become overcome by exactly the kind of mistakes they warned against.<<
12:25.16DocScrutinizer05mumbles "busybox"
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12:33.25jon_yDocScrutinizer05: windows 8
12:33.29jon_ytaking up 20GB
12:34.04jon_yI didn't even know cat(1) has arguments
12:36.54fizziePOSIX cat(1) only has one; no -v there. ("-u: Write bytes from the input file to the standard output without delay as each is read.")
12:42.56DocScrutinizer05man rev|tac|rev
12:43.03DocScrutinizer05madly useful ;-P
12:45.00kerioC11 is a lie
12:46.14kerioalso, i have a fully updated MAME romset again! yay!
12:46.15keriols
12:46.21keriowhoops, wrong window
12:47.19DocScrutinizer05cat - -   is a tiny bit counter-intuitive in how it works
12:47.51keriowhy?
12:47.59keriols
12:48.03keriogaaah, wrong window again
12:48.15kerioi need to install an eye tracker to switch the window focus
12:49.34DocScrutinizer05well, scrap that, my mistake
12:49.55kerioi didn't know stdin could be reopened, from a terminal
12:49.59kerioso maybe that's kinda strange
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12:50.03DocScrutinizer05kerio: (eyetracker) brilliant hack
12:50.55DocScrutinizer05kerio: (re-opened) it probably isn't
12:51.04keriobut i typed ^d
12:51.50DocScrutinizer05>>
12:51.52DocScrutinizer05If a file is '-', the cat utility shall read from the standard  input  at
12:51.53DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
12:51.55DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
12:52.00DocScrutinizer05<< (man 1p cat)
12:52.02kerioi see
12:53.09DocScrutinizer05I think ^D is EOF but not automatically closes the filehandle
12:53.32keriohm, makes sense
12:53.46DocScrutinizer05after all a file(handle) gets closed by the process that opened it, not by the read()
12:55.42DocScrutinizer05it's just common practice that a process does read() until EOF, then close()
12:56.21DocScrutinizer05not all do, though. see tail -f
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13:04.34jon_y<PROTECTED>
13:05.16jon_ycan't read Swedish, still is kind of random on a English ML
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14:17.13DocScrutinizer05eh?
14:17.24DocScrutinizer05whatever
14:17.56DocScrutinizer05ponders to port OpenSUSE bash excellence to fremantle bash
14:19.41DocScrutinizer05suse:  wc -l /etc/profile              384 /etc/profile
14:20.24DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# wc -l /etc/profile             16 /etc/profile
14:30.12DocScrutinizer05http://susefaq.sourceforge.net/howto/bash.html  though this one is ancient
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14:47.06Lava_Croftshould turn your tweaks into one huge script to use by DEUs
14:54.06DocScrutinizer05hm?
14:54.21DocScrutinizer05like this? ->
14:54.24DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
14:54.25infobotit has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
14:55.38DocScrutinizer05sure I'd adjust the "script" on this wiki page to import a adapted suse /etc/profile (and other related files, particularly for bash-completion)
14:56.49DocScrutinizer05but also for keybindings atc. E.G it sucks donkeyballs that fremantle bash doesn't know about history-completion by page-up
14:57.07DocScrutinizer05s/completion/search/
14:58.30DocScrutinizer05I think I need to create an even more general approach, since I see same problem (missing personalization of shell) on other platforms/boxes as well
14:59.30DocScrutinizer05something to not only deploy my ssh pubkey but same time also my shell aliases and whatnot
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15:52.35amin007110is thinking about Volleyball match result, Iran vs Germany, 21:30 IRST.
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15:53.28_nicolai_hi, is someone a maintainer for autobuilder? autobuilder does not import new  packages.
16:08.12Apichttp://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/hp-keeps-installing-secret-backdoors-in-enterprise-storage/ - Epic Fail
16:11.20DocScrutinizer05_nicolai_: the problem is known, but we don't have a maintainer
16:14.22Apichttp://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/07/science-has-average-penis-size-thing-nailed-down/67105/
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16:30.30freemangordonPali: ping
16:31.44Palifreemangordon: pong
16:32.24freemangordonPali: do you expect me to do anything else re omap_smc3 patch?
16:32.32freemangordonBTW Dave did one more comment
16:33.21Palifreemangordon: it is needed something to do with patch?
16:33.51freemangordonPali: hmm, I'd say yes :)
16:34.18PaliDave wrote something only about comments, right?
16:34.49freemangordonPali: remove r12 from stmfd/ldmfd and maybe remove dmb. Maybe I don;t read it correctly
16:35.04Paliok
16:35.13freemangordonPali: I guess you should ask
16:35.45freemangordonPali: honestly, I have no idea what comment to put for dsb/dmb
16:36.27freemangordonPali: besides the already existing comments in omap_smc2()
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17:31.18_nicolai_DocScrutinizer05, I would like to help, but I don't know anything about autobilder, is there anything I can do?
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17:56.49merlin1991_nicolai_: the problem actually is midgard
17:56.58merlin1991_nicolai_: I can manually trigger the import when you ping me
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18:05.09_nicolai_merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hourse. The newest version to import is ledpulse 0.3
18:10.19merlin1991_nicolai_: done
18:19.20shawnjeffersonis the extras assistant web interface working? i always get "no repository selected" just after upload
18:19.36shawnjeffersonand scp/dput not working for me either
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18:49.07Marshall_Bananamerlin1991: did you already conntact Jonne Nauha because of my maintainer request for dropn900?
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19:33.14DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: no, the problem is autobuilder, which is only 10% midgard and 90% friggin scripts
19:34.20DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: and our real problem is autobuilder / repo-management spamming our db with bogus records, until everything explodes
19:36.38DocScrutinizer05see ^^^ <_nicolai_> merlin1991, please do so. It is for my "ledpulse" package. maemo package interface says: "old version cleaned ..." every 4 hours
19:36.51DocScrutinizer05other packages do that every 4 minutes
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19:38.28DocScrutinizer05and I _have_ _to_ shut down this whole stuff when that continues, we already have packages that can't get inspected via package interface since they are simply too long
19:41.19DocScrutinizer05I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year
19:42.01DocScrutinizer05sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky
19:43.27DocScrutinizer05and I definitely will shut down stuff in a few days, if nothing changes in that regard
19:44.34DocScrutinizer05junk piles up in our db, and no simple means to remove it from there
19:44.42win7macstuff like autobilder or stuff like m.o?
19:45.19DocScrutinizer05and things approach a degree of fubar where everything comes to a grinding halt anyway, so I hope I will shut it down before ZILCH works anymore
19:45.54DocScrutinizer05win7mac: that depends what's fsckdup when I shut it down
19:46.28DocScrutinizer05we already see fatal failures in www.m.o due to oversized package histories
19:46.48DocScrutinizer05I won't disable single packages/view/* pages
19:47.11DocScrutinizer05if that gets worse that what it already is I will have to take down www.m.o as well
19:47.57win7macare you 1000% sure thats not because the raid is 99,9% stuffed?
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19:48.37DocScrutinizer05fun detail: when a www.m.o/packages/view/<packagename> page doesn't work anymore, then there's not even a midgard way to delete that whole package, since... the page doesn't work anymore
19:49.19DocScrutinizer05no, I'm 10000000000000000000000% sure
19:49.23DocScrutinizer05:-S
19:49.35win7macgoooooooooooooooood ;-)
19:49.57win7macI still just can't believe it... ;)
19:51.09DocScrutinizer05you just can't believe what?
19:52.45DocScrutinizer05that a 4 or 6 "removing old package version from repository" every 4 minutes, since January, do eventually result in insanely large web pages on ~packages that result in apache processes stalling or getting killed due to OOM?
19:53.29DocScrutinizer05or that we have no means to remove those 500 events per day for a single package from our 946 midgard datatables
19:54.21DocScrutinizer05or that I *WILL* shut down everything that is acting self-destructive, in a week the latest
19:56.20DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/findmine/
19:56.42DocScrutinizer05and that's one of the still working ones
19:56.59win7macstill loads...
19:57.10DocScrutinizer05at least it been a few days ago
19:58.59DocScrutinizer05we have other ones I don't want to post here since every time somebody clicks them, a apache/php process on www dies from out-of-memory
19:59.19win7macI mean, I could think of having so limited and probably heavily fragmented disc-space may add to the trouble already there
19:59.31DocScrutinizer05nonsense
19:59.36win7macok
20:00.20win7macplease don't explain how it works, I trust you ;)
20:00.57DocScrutinizer05I wish I could explain how it works, actually I can't even explain how it doesn't work
20:01.50win7machm... have no faith in council setting up a mail like discussed in #meeting 3 weeks ago?
20:02.09DocScrutinizer05but I can point you to http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?r=hour&cs=&ce=&m=load_one&s=by+name&c=maemo&h=&host_regex=&max_graphs=0&tab=m&vn=&sh=2&z=small&hc=4
20:02.40win7mac^^ I mean that it will have some kind of positive answer?
20:03.09DocScrutinizer05you're constatly urging me to c&p what I wrote 15 min or hours or sometimes days before
20:03.31DocScrutinizer05I several times explained we have no maintainer for autobuilder, Eero is busy, and x-fade missing in action completely since end of last year
20:03.49win7macyeah and there was an idea
20:03.59DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-12 21:42:01] <DocScrutinizer05> sure you're free to ask teh guys we asked 100 times before, maybe you're more lucky
20:05.04win7machttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-06-21.log.html#t2013-06-21T22:35:04
20:05.27DocScrutinizer05not my business, ther are other 4 council members
20:06.10DocScrutinizer05I outright refuse to take track of everything
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20:06.34DocScrutinizer05I announced burnout some 3 months ago
20:07.05DocScrutinizer05what makes you think things changed to the better for me?
20:08.39win7macdon't you see I understand that and try to help out?
20:10.08win7macI'll ping thedead
20:14.56DocScrutinizer05http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-06-21.log.html#t2013-06-21T22:43:25
20:15.56win7macI know. and indeed there are some more councilors over here, sopposedly...
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20:25.00win7mac~ seen chem|st
20:25.07infobotchem|st is currently on #maemo #harmattan #maemo-ssu, last said: 'pong'.
20:38.21shawnjeffersonwhat happened to that guy (jacewoski?) that said he'd help out with autobuilder?
20:38.52DocScrutinizer05he thought it's unbearable to coordinate own actions with sysops
20:39.16merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: the problem though stopping everything from running is 1 script that does not run thanks to a problem with midgard
20:39.26merlin1991so yes I can pinpoint it down to midgard
20:40.08DocScrutinizer05*shrug*
20:40.31DocScrutinizer05to me it seems there's too much running
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20:43.31shawnjeffersonah, so there was some process he didn't want to follow.  Are all the scripts well understood?  with all the smart guys around here, it seems impossible that it can't be understood and hopefully tweaked to work better.  Ideally it would be nice to have a dev/test environment for all this... they are virtual right?
20:44.07DocScrutinizer05that's not feasible
20:44.36shawnjeffersonnot feasible due to money? resources?
20:44.44DocScrutinizer05resources
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20:45.03DocScrutinizer05we need ~4..6 VM running concurrently
20:45.26DocScrutinizer05if not more
20:45.29shawnjeffersonfor dev/test someone could run that on their workstation
20:45.37DocScrutinizer05good luck
20:48.09win7macanthonie tried that, right? - progress so far?
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20:48.40DocScrutinizer05anthonie tried to install ONE vm with midgard1
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20:49.24DocScrutinizer05midgard is mysql based however
20:50.02DocScrutinizer05and we can't clone that db in one complete chunk, since it has sensitive data as well
20:50.16DocScrutinizer05and it is the 2nd vm in that picture
20:50.30shawnjeffersonnot install, clone. it's how it would be handled in an enterprise.  i understand there are constraints here though.  without a "playground" it's impossible to make significant changes or test things like upgrades
20:50.30DocScrutinizer05garage with postgresql is 3rd
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20:51.22DocScrutinizer05autbuilder 4th
20:51.36DocScrutinizer05repo 5th
20:51.49shawnjeffersonsensitive data, I assumed so. you'd have to clone and then scrub the sensitive data. a big job for sure, but worth it imo
20:52.33DocScrutinizer05sure, if we find somebody to do that, he can en passant fix the problems we face right now
20:53.33DocScrutinizer05for sure the competence any such person needs for doing that clonig&scrubbing is sufficient to fix the simple little bugs we have right now easily
20:53.50shawnjeffersonI imagine that would take a small team
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20:54.21DocScrutinizer05for example we have scripts with hardcoded mysql account credentials
20:54.46shawnjeffersonugly but not surprising
20:54.47DocScrutinizer05and sure, same credentials are in db VM in mysql as well
20:55.28DocScrutinizer05we have passwd files with 30k user accounts, same for groups
20:55.53shawnjeffersonat some point you need to make a balance between operations and security and some folks need to be trusted
20:56.19DocScrutinizer05yes, but I won't hand out clones of our sensitive data
20:57.10win7macwould the invest in a 3rd blade make sense to have those vm's needed for testing? They could later be used for other purposes
20:57.29DocScrutinizer05it would help
20:57.37shawnjeffersonI wouldn't either (security is my day job).  what would we need to have our own dev environment at iphh, under our (your) control?
20:57.50shawnjeffersona new blade? some storage?
20:58.03DocScrutinizer05yes
20:58.35DocScrutinizer05we've already set up a very limited test env for www VM
20:58.49DocScrutinizer05with a local mysql to emulate the central one
20:59.03DocScrutinizer05to test midgard upgrade etc
20:59.05shawnjeffersonto me it sounds like that is quickly becoming a priority, especially with all the interactions between m.o. systems
20:59.10win7mac*new blade, some storage and some testers!
20:59.20shawnjeffersontesters and admins
20:59.27DocScrutinizer05no manpower to pursue it further
20:59.41shawnjeffersonand some oversight/planning
21:00.01DocScrutinizer05with no HR there's nothing to plan
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21:02.15shawnjeffersonyes, that's the big problem... time/people.
21:02.22win7macTime for the banner and a SOS tmo thread
21:02.32shawnjeffersonafk for a bit
21:03.12win7mac...give picture of the situation and ask for help
21:03.41win7macBTW, why am I not banner-admin already?!
21:05.20win7mac...I promise to ask Doc + chemist for approval of new banners
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21:06.15shawnjeffersonI'd like to help, but I'm nol wizard.... I do some of this stuff in my day job and figuring out things work is something I do day to day.  The big problem is time... it's hard to commit to being "the guy"
21:06.55shawnjeffersoncorrection: no wizard & how things work
21:07.29shawnjeffersonmidgard I know nothing about for instance
21:07.33win7macwe'd need a team
21:07.43shawnjeffersonbarely even heard of it
21:07.55win7macantonie already offered his assistance
21:08.15win7mac*anthonie
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21:11.26shawnjeffersonok, I just don't want to complain and not offer to help somehow. :)  I'd really like to be able to upload to the Autobuilder.
21:13.02win7macshawn, we'll come back on you if we get such a project going
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21:13.57win7macanthonie suggested noise some on tmo as well, BTW
21:14.25win7mac*some noise
21:16.06win7macI know it's kind of stabbin in the dark, but what can we loose?
21:17.38win7machow much $$ would another blade inkl. HDDs be roughly?
21:18.50DocScrutinizer05everybody interested can contribute to augment the knowledge in http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Infrastructure/Autobuilder
21:19.03DocScrutinizer05maybe 800
21:19.15DocScrutinizer05first rough guess
21:20.39win7macwell, if that's the last thing we can do for maemo, lets use donations for that
21:20.58DocScrutinizer05(contribute) we allow "guest" accounts on several maemo VM, so you can investigate what the scripts do. I also provide a "bio-proxy" to root cmdline
21:21.15win7macno idea if it worth taking the risk though, if it remains fruitlesss and things g down anyway
21:22.01DocScrutinizer05win7mac: we have no manpower to investigate an existing once working system that now has a few flaws
21:22.21win7mac^^ so whoever really wants, actually *can* look into things?
21:22.23DocScrutinizer05I doubt we can find the manpower for such a testbed project
21:22.50DocScrutinizer05(look into things) sure
21:23.01win7macok
21:24.11DocScrutinizer05I can provide cleaned out copies of every file you're interested in
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21:25.14win7macand you also have no further ideas how to proceed?
21:25.49DocScrutinizer05I need to take care about any passwords, any user privacy, and about some statistically significant data. Other than that there's nothing secret in maemo.org
21:27.12DocScrutinizer05well, for now I'd proceed with spotting why repo-management over and over tries to clean out obsolete packages
21:27.26DocScrutinizer05then try to figure how to fix the problem
21:28.00DocScrutinizer05and particularly: DOCUMENT IT
21:28.13win7macright!
21:28.17DocScrutinizer05so others can pick up where I dropped
21:28.32win7macabsolutely
21:29.25win7mac...very underestimated in community-driven infra...
21:29.50shawnjeffersonit sounds like with autobuilder (and other stuff) a lot of scripts run in the root cron, so those would definitely need to be relayed via you
21:30.09win7mac...like with board mails...
21:30.19shawnjeffersonI'm willing to take look and try to help document/understand
21:32.20DocScrutinizer05sure thing
21:33.58DocScrutinizer05shawnjefferson: could you please register with nickserv?
21:34.15DocScrutinizer05/msg nickserv help register
21:40.49shawnjeffersonI have registered... just did an identify
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21:42.40DocScrutinizer05shawnjefferson: I just invited you to our admin channel
21:43.26shawnjeffersongreat!  i just joined that channel
21:43.49DocScrutinizer05you're sure?
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23:07.06snafu777Hello
23:07.45snafu777Had a question regarding a custom desktop
23:07.52snafu777I can do: gconftool-2 /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/applets --dump
23:08.03snafu777and it shows the position of all my icons on the desktop
23:08.31snafu777How can i take that, store it, and then load it for later if i make changes but want to change back to the original positions listed in the file without moving icons by hand?
23:08.38snafu777Any help would be greatly appreciated
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23:22.22snafu777Nobody, ?
23:40.18DocScrutinizer05Snafu777: gconftool --help
23:40.37Snafu777Doc!
23:40.39Snafu777Amen
23:40.47Snafu777I've read the man page
23:40.59Snafu777and I dont have a /root/.gconf or a /home/user/.gconf
23:41.07Snafu777I think that might be why i cant do what im trying to do?
23:41.12Snafu777I just don't know enuf about gconf
23:41.17DocScrutinizer05then you know you can store values via gconftool as well as read them
23:41.25Snafu777i tried
23:41.27Snafu777nothing worked
23:42.41Snafu777Pretty much I have a very customized way to re-create the N900 from the filesystem up
23:42.45Snafu777repartitioning etc..
23:42.58Snafu777Last step for me is to set the icons via a script automatically
23:43.15DocScrutinizer05you *might* need root permissions to do gconftool -s for some keys
23:43.20Snafu777got it
23:43.25Snafu777doing everything as root
23:44.05Snafu777I own an N900.  It is a phone with Maemo (linux-like) for the OS.  I am trying to find a way via gconftool-2 to dump the current location of icons on the Desktop.
23:44.06Snafu777From what i have been able to try so far: gconftool-2 /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/applets --dump
23:44.06Snafu777That command will dump the current position of all icons on the desktop to the screen.  How can I take that output and re-load it later if I move an icon?
23:44.06Snafu777I am trying to avoid having to manually move icons should I reflash.
23:44.08Snafu777Bleh
23:44.14Snafu777NOT what i intended to paste, sorry
23:44.42Snafu777Load/Save options
23:44.42Snafu777<PROTECTED>
23:44.42Snafu777<PROTECTED>
23:44.42Snafu777<PROTECTED>
23:44.56DocScrutinizer05dude, I had that on my other window
23:45.19Snafu777So i tried..... gconftool-2 /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/applets --dump > desktop.xml
23:45.20Snafu777I deleted an icon from the desktop
23:45.29Snafu777then i tried gconftool-2 --load desktop.xml
23:45.32Snafu777with no effect
23:45.51DocScrutinizer05*shrug*
23:45.53Snafu777then i tried gconftool-2 --shutdown && gconftool-2 --spawn
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23:45.56DocScrutinizer05never tried that
23:46.20Snafu777How would you accomplish the task DocScrutinizer05 ?
23:46.48DocScrutinizer05I probably had used gconftool -R /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/applets
23:47.12DocScrutinizer05and then RTFM
23:47.27DocScrutinizer05to find about dump, load, unload
23:47.45DocScrutinizer05anyway the inverse function to load seems to be unload, not dump
23:48.48DocScrutinizer05but it should prolly make no difference
23:50.29rikaneeoff topic, but I just added a SSD, and it's fantastic.
23:50.30DocScrutinizer05both (unload, dump) sounds scary like "remove those keys from original registry"
23:50.46DocScrutinizer05rikanee: yeah, those are incredible
23:50.46Snafu777I've tried all kinds of combos
23:50.58Snafu777Just to no avail
23:51.04Snafu777Hence why i'm reaching out Doc =(
23:51.29rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: I don't have big bucks to blow, so I bought a 128GB SSD and I'm having it cache my OS and programs. Still, it's fast.
23:53.21DocScrutinizer05Snafu777: fsck gconftool. I have no f...aintest clue
23:53.41Snafu777Okay, no worries
23:53.50Snafu777Thanks for the ideas though
23:54.30DocScrutinizer05OOOH, --unload seems to fetch the key/dir descriptions from the file to unload to
23:55.16Snafu777Nothing works
23:55.19Snafu777I wonder if i have to reboot
23:55.30DocScrutinizer05I dunno if gconf has a locking scheme. If so, I might figure hildon-desktop locks those keys
23:55.36Snafu777hmm
23:55.48Snafu777well after the load, even though the icon is not there, the string is
23:55.54Snafu777so now i have to perhaps reboot
23:55.59Snafu777or reload or something
23:56.09DocScrutinizer05wait, you say you ran gconftool --load without it throwing error?
23:56.13Snafu777yep
23:56.18Snafu777but the icon doesnt appear instantly
23:56.20Snafu777like it should
23:56.26DocScrutinizer05then killall -9 hildondesktop
23:56.44Snafu777no process killed
23:56.55DocScrutinizer05uh, you want to *create* icons this way?
23:56.57Snafu777-
23:57.05Snafu777Not create, but position
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23:57.18Snafu777For my custom distro
23:57.23DocScrutinizer05yeah, then kill -9 hildon-desktop
23:57.32Snafu777and killal did kill it, but it didnt load the new icon in its proper spot
23:58.11DocScrutinizer05well, I hope you killall -9 it
23:58.19Snafu777killall -9 hildon-desktop
23:58.25Snafu777but still no effect =/
23:58.29Snafu777getting closer though
23:58.44Snafu777cuz i can see the icon info via --dump, it just doesnt showup
23:58.49DocScrutinizer05well, check if a new gconftool --dump still has the positions like --load ed by you
23:59.48Snafu777no dice
23:59.58DocScrutinizer05eh?

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