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| 04:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | [notice] I started token bulk mailing |
| 04:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the tokens are still the same as for the past election(s) |
| 04:18.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is for the BoD elections to start in 14h, so we finally get a new *elected* BoD again |
| 04:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOTE: you can as well use your "old" token and accountname you received for referendum and MMC/HFC elections |
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| 08:38.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council |
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| 08:57.08 | vi__ | Lava_Croft: ping |
| 08:57.34 | vi__ | anyone_who_is_into_fone_tech: ping |
| 08:58.00 | vi__ | One of my fleet of N900 finally succumbed to the communication error bug yesterday. |
| 08:58.19 | vi__ | I burned some incense and said a little prayer. |
| 08:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | communication error bug? |
| 08:59.12 | vi__ | Yup. |
| 08:59.33 | vi__ | I can protect against the broken USB port but not CMT failure. |
| 08:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah cmt failure |
| 09:00.14 | vi__ | Fucking nokia. |
| 09:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still think cmt failure might get triggered by too hard pressure/force applied to kbd |
| 09:00.39 | vi__ | It was the handset mrs vi_ uses. |
| 09:01.14 | vi__ | I think it is time for her to move onto droid. |
| 09:01.29 | vi__ | She only used to the n900 to make me happy :( |
| 09:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly think they shouldn't have placed huge BGA chips on backside of kbd area |
| 09:02.09 | vi__ | You think the pcb gets distorted enough? |
| 09:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 09:02.21 | vi__ | Hmmm. |
| 09:02.33 | vi__ | Maybe I should be the first to attempt a diy reflow! |
| 09:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah! |
| 09:03.16 | vi__ | How hot for a BGA? |
| 09:03.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I guess usual reflow profile |
| 09:04.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc some max 260°C for no longer than 120s, with a preheat of dunno. Check the usual manufacturer and reflow oven profile specs |
| 09:05.05 | vi__ | Do you think the domesheet could handle that? |
| 09:05.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not |
| 09:05.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll have to carefully remove it, then fit it again after rework and test |
| 09:06.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd also remove cam module prior to reflow action |
| 09:06.52 | vi__ | rofl |
| 09:06.54 | vi__ | ofc |
| 09:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the best profile, I can't give any good advice for rework |
| 09:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | aunt google might help |
| 09:08.04 | vi__ | It was only a silly idea anyway. |
| 09:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | onlike some of my chinese colleagues back from openmoko, I personally never did BGA manual reflow |
| 09:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike even |
| 09:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might try and get a hold of those experts at #qi-hardware |
| 09:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/of/on7. |
| 09:10.13 | vi__ | I think I will just let it go. |
| 09:10.28 | vi__ | It can be the car computer or something. |
| 09:10.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cmtfix |
| 09:10.29 | infobot | rumour has it, cmtfix is http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg |
| 09:11.48 | vi__ | Is that picture for real? |
| 09:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | supposed to be the scientific fork of "paper under battery" workaround suggested by even Nokia care |
| 09:12.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: yes, I think it's for real |
| 09:12.25 | vi__ | It looks like it does wonders for the RF shielding. |
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| 09:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course the can lids are meant to get closed after applying the springs ;-P |
| 09:13.42 | vi__ | aaah. |
| 09:14.00 | vi__ | I wonder what all this mobile phone rf is doing to my bollocks. |
| 09:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | best case save you much trouble |
| 09:14.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
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| 09:14.35 | vi__ | hah! |
| 09:15.04 | vi__ | I am seriously considering switching back to symbian. |
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| 09:16.58 | vi__ | or one of those credit card sized phones that only makes calls. |
| 09:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, why not go the geek way rather than for sybian? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 |
| 09:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT guy is a real animal when it comes to DIY reworks |
| 09:19.15 | vi__ | Holy shit. That is glorious! |
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| 09:24.41 | vi__ | Did you see this thing? |
| 09:24.42 | vi__ | http://www.meetearl.com/ |
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| 09:25.47 | vi__ | It has a UHF radio in it! |
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| 09:36.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 09:36.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | solar charging made me giggle a short while |
| 09:37.07 | vi__ | Truthfully, if a person was in a so called survival situation, the last thing they would want is battery powered things. |
| 09:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a 5W transceiver, the solar charging is really only for robinson sending a short SOS every other year, when a ship passes by |
| 09:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but an interesting gadget anyway, thanks for the pointer :-) |
| 09:43.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Glove friendly infrared touchscreen<< DUH! |
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| 09:45.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is an " IR blaster"? |
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| 10:20.13 | vi__ | Perhaps an IR illumination for survival night vision. |
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| 10:32.14 | Lava_Croft | vi__: pong? |
| 10:38.38 | vi__ | good morning. |
| 10:38.52 | vi__ | I always had the impression you are quite up to date on phone tech. |
| 10:38.59 | Lava_Croft | uhm |
| 10:39.26 | vi__ | Can you recommend a cheap as **** android handset for mrs vi_? |
| 10:39.39 | Lava_Croft | ow, i dont know about that:< |
| 10:39.45 | Lava_Croft | ive always been interested in that too |
| 10:39.55 | Lava_Croft | but its like a forest of cheap droids |
| 10:40.08 | Lava_Croft | i would say go with a cheaper samsung :| |
| 10:40.19 | vi__ | any particular models etc? |
| 10:40.22 | Lava_Croft | i know my mother in law has this cheapo Galaxy device and is quite happy |
| 10:40.28 | rikanee | vi__: get any device that shows up on XDA. |
| 10:40.30 | Lava_Croft | some small-ish thingy |
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| 10:41.39 | Lava_Croft | get that new Asha |
| 10:41.42 | Lava_Croft | i really like that design |
| 10:41.55 | vi__ | The thing is, I do not want to expend too much effort 'researching'. |
| 10:42.04 | vi__ | I think it has to be android. |
| 10:42.16 | rikanee | vi__: Galaxy Grand? |
| 10:42.18 | Lava_Croft | cheap droid means droid running on slow shit hardware |
| 10:42.26 | Lava_Croft | which usually doesnt really make it awesome |
| 10:42.31 | Lava_Croft | this might have changed tho |
| 10:43.16 | rikanee | how cheap is cheap, exactly? |
| 10:44.30 | Lava_Croft | sub $100? |
| 10:45.41 | vi__ | Yes |
| 10:46.55 | Lava_Croft | vi__: http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobile-phones/best-cheap-android-phones-50000773/ |
| 10:47.00 | Lava_Croft | that has some models for you |
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| 10:58.22 | vi__ | £75 |
| 10:58.29 | vi__ | That does seem cheap enough. |
| 10:59.00 | vi__ | I paid more than that for a nokia 5800 3 years ago. |
| 10:59.49 | vi__ | It appears to be supported by the cyanogenmod |
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| 11:01.33 | Lava_Croft | yeah, cyanogen support is a nice bonus |
| 11:01.57 | Lava_Croft | vi__: http://cdn.theunlockr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ATT_SGH-i927_qwertyleft.jpg |
| 11:02.04 | Lava_Croft | scottish friend of mine got that from Hong Kong |
| 11:02.12 | Lava_Croft | for around 100euros |
| 11:09.47 | vi__ | does it support cyanogen? |
| 11:10.42 | Lava_Croft | aye |
| 11:10.52 | Lava_Croft | he installed it on the device |
| 11:11.04 | vi__ | are you scotch? |
| 11:11.08 | Lava_Croft | only thing he doesnt like, except android maybe, is the lack of a CTRL key on the hw keyb |
| 11:11.11 | Lava_Croft | no |
| 11:11.32 | vi__ | BUt you can remap the kb anyway you want on android...right? |
| 11:11.38 | Lava_Croft | i guess |
| 11:12.37 | vi__ | where did he buy it? |
| 11:13.12 | vi__ | ah. Who am I kidding. She does not care for HWKB. |
| 11:13.18 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 11:13.39 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 11:14.26 | vi__ | Does MTK chipsets still suck asses? |
| 11:15.42 | Lava_Croft | no clue |
| 11:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | reads >>its like a forest of cheap droids<< and starts humming Stranglers - The Rise of the Robots |
| 11:18.32 | *** join/#maemo rikanee (~rika@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 11:18.57 | Lava_Croft | Rise of the Robots was this beat em up |
| 11:19.10 | vi__ | And it sucked balls. I remember it. |
| 11:19.13 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 11:19.17 | Lava_Croft | it was no Killer Instinct |
| 11:19.23 | vi__ | But the cover art was kinda cool with that blue robot. |
| 11:19.30 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 11:19.32 | Lava_Croft | btw |
| 11:19.35 | Lava_Croft | KI gets a remake |
| 11:19.45 | Lava_Croft | yeah i found a valid reason to mention it |
| 11:20.04 | vi__ | A remake you say? |
| 11:20.08 | Lava_Croft | aye |
| 11:20.44 | vi__ | Will we get to see orchids bewbs this time or will they censor her fatality again? |
| 11:20.53 | Lava_Croft | her weirdo banana shaped boobs |
| 11:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQV8pWJiJ4g |
| 11:21.58 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5IZobXdJyE |
| 11:22.22 | Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zafl_68PfOo |
| 11:22.23 | Lava_Croft | haha |
| 11:22.32 | Lava_Croft | I never can get enough of 90s computer game advertising |
| 11:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This video contains content from UMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.<< |
| 11:22.51 | Lava_Croft | haha, welcome to germany |
| 11:23.16 | vi__ | zappa. banned in germany. |
| 11:23.21 | vi__ | you should go to war. |
| 11:23.28 | Lava_Croft | zappa is banned like mein kampf |
| 11:23.40 | Lava_Croft | i bet someone can think of a valid reason to link the two |
| 11:25.50 | *** join/#maemo rikanee (~rika@unaffiliated/rikanee) |
| 11:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's simple RIAA/GEMA (c) stuff |
| 11:30.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | recently they tried to implement same even for google (et al) citations of texts with their search hits |
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| 11:30.54 | Lava_Croft | GEMA is the protector of all creative people in Germany |
| 11:31.01 | Lava_Croft | chokes on his words |
| 11:31.26 | Lava_Croft | i thought we Dutchies had it bad with the blockade of TPB, but Germany is much, much worse with its ridiculous GEMA |
| 11:31.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | newspapers etc asked for insane refund/click from google, based on "they earn so much money with linking to our sites, we want some of that" rationale |
| 11:31.52 | Lava_Croft | yeah, they tried that here too |
| 11:32.22 | Lava_Croft | a lot of the stuff that GEMA now does just didnt really pass for acceptable here |
| 11:32.32 | Lava_Croft | thats what i dont understand, its not like Germans and Dutchies are so different |
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| 11:36.05 | vi__ | wut |
| 11:36.15 | vi__ | google does not earn any money from links. |
| 11:36.41 | vi__ | In fact if it were not for google how would the newspapers site get any traffic? |
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| 11:36.51 | vi__ | From 'yahoo' searches? |
| 11:36.55 | vi__ | BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA |
| 11:37.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: that's irrelevant to the core argumentation of "we WANT some of that!" |
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| 11:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few years ago they actually tried to sue ISPs for providing access to (C) content |
| 11:39.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have no idea what lawyers can come up with, when they try to make money |
| 11:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | the concept of "Mitstoerer-Haftung" still applies and could forbid me to offer free internet access via a guest WLAN for neighbours and randomly passing by WLAN users |
| 11:42.39 | *** join/#maemo frafl (~Thunderbi@e178067030.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:42.42 | Lava_Croft | still rule of law that owner of connection is legally responsible? |
| 11:42.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 11:42.57 | Lava_Croft | so i could leech child porn off of your wifi and you get the blame |
| 11:43.02 | Lava_Croft | so, so bad |
| 11:43.34 | rikanee | IP addresses and known owners make prosecution just so easy. |
| 11:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might prove I had an open WLAN and there been a guest who did that, but then they require that I provide ID of that guest |
| 11:44.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | if I can't provide the ID, then it's me who pays |
| 11:44.49 | vi__ | what if I hacked your wifi? |
| 11:45.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I pay for not properly maintaining my WLAN |
| 11:45.16 | vi__ | rofl. |
| 11:45.29 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: that sucks. |
| 11:45.31 | vi__ | As it should be! The victim of crime should pay to clean up the mess! |
| 11:46.18 | rikanee | I mean, hypothetically, if WPA2 gets a skid-friendly attack, and WPA3 hasn't been NSA-certified yet, does everybody just get the schtick? |
| 11:46.20 | divVerent | BTW... as for legally responsible: only in civil law |
| 11:46.39 | divVerent | so technically you committed no crime if someone else DL'd child porn through your WLAN |
| 11:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually not properly securing your WLAN is worse than offering open and free WLAN (plus tracing MAC of clients) |
| 11:47.06 | divVerent | I'd be more worried about civil law issues, e.g. copyright |
| 11:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: right |
| 11:47.29 | divVerent | as for that there are clear laws that the ISP account owner is the "also-disturber" (no idea how to translate that) |
| 11:48.04 | divVerent | regarding the overused child porn example, what WOULD happen is that they'd seize your computers to analyze them... |
| 11:48.08 | rikanee | divVerent: corroborator? |
| 11:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | (worried about copyright) which is where we came from |
| 11:48.14 | divVerent | to give them back to you 3 years later without charging you for a crime |
| 11:48.16 | divVerent | still very bad |
| 11:48.27 | rikanee | divVerent: aiding and abetting? |
| 11:48.45 | divVerent | rikanee: sort of... not sure if that english term includes "accidentally" doing it |
| 11:48.59 | rikanee | …accidentally? |
| 11:49.05 | divVerent | see open WLAN |
| 11:49.12 | rikanee | ah. |
| 11:49.13 | divVerent | or rather, semi-open (e.g. WEP) |
| 11:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither does the german term mit-stoerer |
| 11:49.28 | divVerent | similar to when my actions would accidentally help a murderer... and for that I cannot get charged |
| 11:49.36 | divVerent | e.g. typical example: the guy who sold the knife to the killer |
| 11:50.03 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: that german term includes unwillingly doing so |
| 11:50.14 | *** join/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@host-2-98-134-189.as13285.net) |
| 11:50.19 | divVerent | so with a not properly secured WLAN you are one too |
| 11:50.25 | divVerent | and be it a 0day in your AP |
| 11:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, they won't prosecute you for the murder, but the killed guy's wife sues you for livelong recompensation |
| 11:50.52 | divVerent | haha, no |
| 11:50.56 | rikanee | so, uhh… assuming you're a Starbucks franchiser, and have a WiFi network with captive portal, and a DPI firewall with an active blocklist, what if someone uses Tor to get their cheese pizza? |
| 11:51.10 | divVerent | that is why you practically cannot get out of liability |
| 11:51.27 | rikanee | blaming the owner for illegal access is a politico cop-out, imo |
| 11:51.36 | divVerent | rikanee: that is no issue... |
| 11:51.46 | divVerent | rikanee: and yes, it is a stupid cop-out |
| 11:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: tbh the term "Mit-Stoerer" doesn't imply anything for me, it's gibberish |
| 11:51.56 | divVerent | but it is parallel to e.g. crimes committed using your car |
| 11:52.04 | divVerent | you provided the vehicle, so you still can get sued for damages |
| 11:52.13 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: it is |
| 11:52.47 | rikanee | divVerent: actually, more like a large, private freeway, with free, open access. |
| 11:52.53 | divVerent | BTW, typical example of being a Mitstoerer... |
| 11:52.57 | divVerent | use QtMobileHotspot on N900 |
| 11:53.00 | divVerent | it can't do WPA |
| 11:53.07 | divVerent | so you're basically automatically screweed |
| 11:53.45 | divVerent | the only way out is being a company (yes... as soon as you have money, suddenly all is ok) |
| 11:53.46 | rikanee | with a freeway analogy, do they actually expect you to lay down CCTV every 5 meters and rent-a-cops to secure it? |
| 11:53.58 | divVerent | yes, but only if you are private |
| 11:54.03 | divVerent | as a company, you can offer any access you want\ |
| 11:54.14 | divVerent | that is why public hotspots work e.g. in airports |
| 11:54.17 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@193.2.218.150) |
| 11:54.24 | divVerent | all authentication they have is your MAC address... which can even be fake |
| 11:54.30 | rikanee | mmm. |
| 11:54.35 | divVerent | sometimes even a mobile phone number... which can be equally fake |
| 11:54.45 | divVerent | so if anyone sues... |
| 11:54.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: no, I can be a private non-company too, I only have to utterly offer the WLAN for anybody to access internet, then it's less probelmatic than when I get hacked |
| 11:54.57 | divVerent | all they will say is "it was a user with this MAC, go catch him yourself" |
| 11:55.00 | divVerent | and they are done |
| 11:55.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just have to keep records of all MAC |
| 11:55.42 | divVerent | which is practically useless |
| 11:55.48 | divVerent | and also... are you allowed to keep these records? |
| 11:55.53 | *** join/#maemo kov (~kov@debian/developer/kov) |
| 11:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:55.58 | divVerent | IIRC Vorratsdatenspeicherung only applies starting from a certain user count |
| 11:56.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the mandatory property, yes |
| 11:56.23 | divVerent | airports basically authorize to themselves as they need these records for "billing" |
| 11:56.34 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 11:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't forbid it on smaller "ISP" |
| 11:56.34 | divVerent | so they can limit your usage to 30min and for more you pay |
| 11:56.44 | divVerent | it does not? |
| 11:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 11:56.56 | divVerent | I thought privacy laws basically forbid you to collect any "unnecessary" data |
| 11:57.00 | divVerent | unless explicitly authorized |
| 11:57.18 | divVerent | so if you are not required to do Vorratsdatenspeicherung, you are not allowed to either |
| 11:57.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT applies only to companies |
| 11:57.29 | Lava_Croft | ISP here is going to transmit wifi from its clients routers |
| 11:57.31 | rikanee | ooh, so logging MAC, with a captive portal with disclaimer, gets you out? |
| 11:57.32 | divVerent | unless you happen to have another reason to do the same |
| 11:57.37 | divVerent | e.g. "billing", the usual excuse |
| 11:57.45 | Lava_Croft | so other clients can make use of wifi throughout the country |
| 11:58.12 | divVerent | read: "so you have less bandwidth and can't find out why" |
| 11:58.17 | Lava_Croft | no |
| 11:58.22 | Lava_Croft | seperate lines |
| 11:58.26 | divVerent | as in, "ISP will always say someone else is using your b/w before admitting your line is bad" |
| 11:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's my private LAN, I can stora all the data I want |
| 11:58.33 | divVerent | oh, REALLY separate? |
| 11:58.40 | Lava_Croft | not physically |
| 11:58.44 | divVerent | exactly |
| 11:58.45 | divVerent | :P |
| 11:58.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | that I share it doesn't make a difference |
| 11:59.06 | Lava_Croft | it does not interfere with your own bw, divVerent |
| 11:59.20 | Lava_Croft | they have more than enough bw anyways |
| 11:59.24 | divVerent | let's see if that will be true :P |
| 11:59.46 | Lava_Croft | it will, since people wont accept any degredation of performance |
| 11:59.52 | Lava_Croft | not for this |
| 12:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 12:00.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | inless fibre, they never have more than enough bandwidth for me |
| 12:00.50 | divVerent | Lava_Croft: not initially, sure |
| 12:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless even |
| 12:01.02 | divVerent | it basically gives the ISPs another thing to claim in order to not have to fix your line |
| 12:01.12 | Lava_Croft | divVerent: if its a performance decrease that is not percieved as such |
| 12:01.16 | Lava_Croft | it doesnt exist |
| 12:01.18 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 12:02.27 | divVerent | Lava_Croft: no, no |
| 12:02.32 | Lava_Croft | you know, the nexus7 turned out really awful |
| 12:02.34 | divVerent | it just adds another thing to the script of the hotlines |
| 12:03.00 | Lava_Croft | they used such cheap flash memory that over time the tablet performs like android on n900 |
| 12:03.01 | divVerent | so if your line is bad, hotline will after the usual reboot crap, start blaming it on interference or such crap |
| 12:03.19 | Lava_Croft | so now my nexus7 is like a cheap toy store droid tablet |
| 12:03.32 | Lava_Croft | divVerent: :) yes |
| 12:03.33 | divVerent | they needed to reduce performance to achieve iPhone feeling |
| 12:03.46 | Lava_Croft | its really bad |
| 12:04.00 | Lava_Croft | i basically have to reflash to solve it |
| 12:04.49 | vi__ | Can you explain? |
| 12:04.58 | vi__ | Is there some amnufacturing fault on the nexus7? |
| 12:05.04 | vi__ | ^manufacturing |
| 12:06.01 | Lava_Croft | cheap flash storage supposedly works fine for large writes/reads like media files |
| 12:06.31 | Lava_Croft | but ends up performinf really bad on the OS's small writes/reads |
| 12:06.33 | divVerent | so for what does it not work well? |
| 12:06.48 | divVerent | why would the OS do small reads/writes all the time |
| 12:06.59 | divVerent | I kinda doubt that... as in, doubt that THAT is the reason for bad performance |
| 12:07.15 | divVerent | even iOS, full of sqlite DBs everywhere, does not use much disk access requests per sec |
| 12:07.21 | Lava_Croft | ' slow random read/write speeds of the ssd' |
| 12:07.25 | Lava_Croft | is what they say |
| 12:07.26 | divVerent | and android has less of that crap |
| 12:07.43 | divVerent | even if it IS slow... why would you notice that from the UI |
| 12:08.00 | Lava_Croft | you notice is from everywhere |
| 12:08.03 | Lava_Croft | it* |
| 12:08.11 | Lava_Croft | which is the problem |
| 12:08.33 | divVerent | are you sure I/O is REALLY the issue, is what I am asking |
| 12:08.37 | divVerent | and not something else |
| 12:08.48 | Lava_Croft | i said supposedly :) |
| 12:08.49 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@94.25.130.1) |
| 12:08.57 | Lava_Croft | i just read and relay here:) |
| 12:09.06 | divVerent | hehe |
| 12:09.20 | Lava_Croft | can be anything for all i knowp but its an actual thing since i experience it on my N7 |
| 12:09.28 | divVerent | thing is, these devices have lots of RAM, and all writes are cached |
| 12:09.32 | Lava_Croft | as do the 6 other people i know irl that have one |
| 12:09.34 | divVerent | so effectively they take place in background |
| 12:09.45 | divVerent | and reads should not be that much of an issue, and even if yes, only few times |
| 12:09.51 | Lava_Croft | nothing helps, except reflash |
| 12:09.51 | divVerent | until next reboot :P |
| 12:10.29 | divVerent | or does actually forcing the files to be cached and retrying "fix" the bad performance? |
| 12:10.39 | Lava_Croft | momwnt |
| 12:10.42 | divVerent | like, closing the slow opening app, and opening it again and it opens fast? |
| 12:10.56 | divVerent | (I mean actually killing, of course) |
| 12:11.13 | Lava_Croft | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kovit.p.forevergone&hl=en |
| 12:11.23 | Lava_Croft | apparently people use that as a 'fix' |
| 12:11.54 | Lava_Croft | it just makes me cringe |
| 12:18.04 | divVerent | WTF |
| 12:18.15 | divVerent | all this thing possibly does for/against performance... |
| 12:18.20 | divVerent | is clearing the write cache of the kernel :P |
| 12:18.36 | divVerent | what it does in no way "defragments" the SD card or anything |
| 12:18.54 | divVerent | and in case of VFAT, it makes your directory nodes bigger :P |
| 12:19.15 | divVerent | this thing is useful though... for android VMs :P |
| 12:19.25 | divVerent | so you can clean out the free space to zeros, before compressing the VM image |
| 12:19.59 | divVerent | so if THIS thing really speeds stuff up... |
| 12:20.13 | divVerent | I'd rather consider rooting it and fixing the procfs values regarding caching :P |
| 12:42.18 | Win7Mac | chem|st, I have a new banner for TMO to place in ~10h: http://i.imgur.com/JRv7QmY.gif |
| 12:43.18 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 12:55.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: fragmentation |
| 12:55.09 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.105) |
| 12:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when storage starts to fragment |
| 12:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | which drastically reduces the read and write speed |
| 12:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | (only wild guessing) |
| 12:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, I'd accept reflashing and restoring all media data as a valid way to defragment storage |
| 13:01.49 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_droid (~wrt54gl@190.211.81.139) |
| 13:04.29 | Lava_Croft | heh |
| 13:04.30 | Lava_Croft | http://i.imgur.com/M4fm9Og.jpg |
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| 13:05.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 13:05.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what? |
| 13:06.12 | Lava_Croft | grabbag showcase of how android changed visually |
| 13:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 13:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | know what _I_ dislike in that? The fact that _android_ changed, since usually *I* change such details to my liking |
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| 13:08.35 | Lava_Croft | well, that the default looks changed over time is logical |
| 13:08.43 | Lava_Croft | and you can still change it to your liking, to a certain extent |
| 13:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really can't cheer about arbitrary android manufacturers picked a larger or smaller font *for me* for the ever-same friggin clock on that "desktop" |
| 13:08.56 | Lava_Croft | its just funny how much better the default look it compared to the older ones |
| 13:09.11 | Lava_Croft | well, yes, the android skins they use are awful |
| 13:09.17 | Lava_Croft | but stock android has OK looks |
| 13:10.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I despise the 2it has skins" thinking. I want to create my own "skin" |
| 13:10.18 | *** join/#maemo WielkiTost (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 13:10.46 | Lava_Croft | yes but not every user is a such a tinkerer |
| 13:10.49 | Lava_Croft | frankly, most arent:) |
| 13:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | for givin you an idea: I have my KDE window bar separated from that think on bottom of KDE desktop and sitting on top of screen |
| 13:11.07 | Lava_Croft | so for them being able to change the theme/skin is quite nice already! |
| 13:11.14 | Lava_Croft | and makes them feel like a hacker, so |
| 13:11.37 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~VDVsx@a88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and makes me feel like an alien on planet of apes |
| 13:13.12 | Lava_Croft | i can relate to the mainstream folks, i have a shitload of them around me:P |
| 13:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly when even arranging their own individual "desktop" is too much for those users, why the heck do they need a SMARTphone at all? |
| 13:13.24 | Lava_Croft | most of them dont give a shit about changing any skin at all |
| 13:13.51 | Lava_Croft | they arrange icons on the homescreen |
| 13:13.56 | Lava_Croft | :P |
| 13:14.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, most of then also don't give a shit whose fart got recorded for that fart app, as long as it is 2ct cheaper than the other fart app |
| 13:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | or LOUDER |
| 13:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 13:15.22 | Lava_Croft | well, i can affirm that i have not ever met anyone who had a fart app to show me |
| 13:15.28 | Lava_Croft | so idk :< |
| 13:15.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe jolla should sell other-halves with different fart sounds |
| 13:15.40 | Lava_Croft | i want other halves with smell |
| 13:15.45 | Lava_Croft | that would be great |
| 13:15.54 | Lava_Croft | you can have it smell like brick |
| 13:17.10 | Lava_Croft | want to have a laugh? |
| 13:17.11 | Lava_Croft | http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/20/4449116/samsung-ativ-q-windows-8-android-hybrid-hands-on-photos-video |
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| 13:20.02 | divVerent | 14:55:39 DocScrutinizer05 | even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when |
| 13:20.03 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.20 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: but creating zero bytes files, filling the card, then deleting them does not defragment |
| 13:20.24 | divVerent | as it does not move the existing files |
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| 13:26.45 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to go add some input to the questionnaire thread. |
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| 13:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: ack |
| 13:34.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's claiming it does is a moron |
| 13:38.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: NB I didn't bother to look into any link that got posted here regarding that topic. I just contributed a random thought what might cause increasing slowness on an android device and how you could actually fix that |
| 13:39.03 | divVerent | sure |
| 13:39.05 | *** join/#maemo drussell (~dave@cpc1-brom10-2-0-cust341.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 13:39.28 | divVerent | basically, I do wonder if this tool actually helps - because if it does, a real fix is probably some vars in procfs related to disk cache |
| 13:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | optimizer tools always help, particularly when they're "free". After all the user feels happy for ahving found a "solution" to his problem that didn't cost him money |
| 13:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | known as placebo effect |
| 13:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | well known actually, since windows-3.1 times |
| 13:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I adore to "help" those optimizer placebos, like crappatch ;-D |
| 13:45.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | re crappatch: those pkgs actually seem to have adopted some formerly working POC patches maybe for diablo or whatever that got included to fremantle stock either from beginning or at very least starting from PR1.2 |
| 13:46.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. cgroups |
| 13:46.30 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (~freemango@130-204-50-168.2074221835.ddns.cablebg.net) |
| 13:48.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since original author had no idea about how those POC patches work, he wasn't capable to find them already implemented in contemporary maemo and happily nuked what already been there by his obsolete alternative |
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| 13:50.05 | freemangordon | what, speedpatch for android? |
| 13:50.15 | vi__ | lol |
| 13:50.28 | freemangordon | nice, /me likes that |
| 13:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | which in best case actually works almost as good as it did before, and been verifiable to work, but neglected that a similar or better setting already existed on every fremantle system |
| 13:51.02 | freemangordon | vi__: hi, how's UI going? |
| 13:51.09 | vi__ | terrible! |
| 13:51.14 | freemangordon | :( |
| 13:51.22 | vi__ | engineers should not make guis! |
| 13:51.33 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 13:51.43 | vi__ | It works but the overall feedback is it looks like ass. |
| 13:52.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | engineers should have a gui-maker-bashing-day once a week |
| 13:52.32 | vi__ | I heard there were riots in Sofia. Is it true? |
| 13:52.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | where they tell the guys who make GUI how to do it right |
| 13:52.40 | vi__ | lol |
| 13:52.50 | vi__ | all you need is sh |
| 13:53.36 | freemangordon | vi__: yeah, I am participating. It is unbelieveable how EU media give no attention to that :( |
| 13:53.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, that's called usability crew |
| 13:53.54 | vi__ | what is going on? Is it actual rioting? |
| 13:54.03 | vi__ | Or just peaceful demonstration? |
| 13:54.16 | vi__ | Perhaps it is because Bulgaria is too close to home? |
| 13:54.30 | freemangordon | peaceful demonstration, even some kind of party |
| 13:54.49 | freemangordon | vi__: could be, but still, it is dishonest |
| 13:55.05 | *** join/#maemo brzys (~brzys@86-63-126-137.sta.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 13:55.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's demonstrating where for what? seems it's demontration seasons |
| 13:55.10 | vi__ | I agree, I was merely offering some kind of explanation. |
| 13:55.51 | vi__ | Apparently if you have $20 in your pocket and no debts you are amongst the richest on the planet. It is nice to be in the 1%. |
| 13:55.57 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: https://medium.com/better-humans/d289c6e1392 |
| 13:56.48 | vi__ | You want to dissolve your parliament? |
| 13:56.49 | vi__ | o0 |
| 13:57.09 | freemangordon | vi__: for sure |
| 13:57.44 | freemangordon | vi__: it is unbelevable, but every day they do bigger mistake than the one they did the previous day |
| 13:57.45 | vi__ | It seems crazy that people have to go to such lengths to get their own governments to just pay attention. |
| 13:58.01 | *** join/#maemo mvp (~mvp@dhcp-78.q.wlan.net.bme.hu) |
| 13:58.35 | vi__ | You see turkey, syria and brazil are far away lands. |
| 13:58.41 | vi__ | They are exotic. |
| 13:59.02 | vi__ | Their governments are corrupt and that is the way it is in the undeveloped world. |
| 13:59.11 | vi__ | Bulgaria is just too close to home. |
| 13:59.11 | freemangordon | hmm, I wouldn;t say turkey is far (in geographical sense) |
| 13:59.27 | vi__ | freemangordon: correct, but it *feels* far away, |
| 13:59.37 | vi__ | ^. |
| 13:59.40 | freemangordon | yeah |
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| 14:00.21 | vi__ | The notion that our neighbours in Bulgaria are rallying is just 1 step closer to the central euro countries getting upset. |
| 14:01.02 | vi__ | I am surprised there has not been an uprising in Germany. |
| 14:01.24 | freemangordon | vi__: it is sad that an old guy like me have to do the same he has done 20 years ago. |
| 14:01.35 | vi__ | What with having to foot the bill for some half dozen european shit hole countries who forgot to collect any tax in the last 30 years. |
| 14:02.14 | freemangordon | vi__: half dozen? Oo |
| 14:02.40 | vi__ | A little exaggeration for dramatic effect! |
| 14:02.47 | freemangordon | aah, ok :) |
| 14:03.31 | freemangordon | vi__: however, have to run. |
| 14:03.37 | vi__ | Stay safe. |
| 14:03.46 | freemangordon | yeah, sure |
| 14:07.14 | Lava_Croft | i guess theres no uprising in germany because the germans know very well its their own fault they have to pay up for their friends |
| 14:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: thanks for link |
| 14:07.34 | Lava_Croft | it was well known that letting weak countries be part of the Euro would pose a serious risk |
| 14:08.06 | Lava_Croft | but realism is not a fun gameplay element of politics |
| 14:10.02 | freemangordon | Lava_Croft: demonstrations in BG has nothing to do with EU |
| 14:10.29 | freemangordon | it is "our" own intercountry fault |
| 14:10.46 | freemangordon | only about 50% voted on the last elections |
| 14:11.10 | Lava_Croft | was referring to vi__ :) |
| 14:11.14 | freemangordon | ok |
| 14:11.16 | Lava_Croft | you have different problems |
| 14:11.22 | Lava_Croft | :( |
| 14:11.45 | freemangordon | yeah. which are way worse than those in Germany ;) |
| 14:12.05 | Lava_Croft | its about time countries in your region get governments they can reasonably trust |
| 14:13.25 | freemangordon | Lava_Croft: exactly what it is all about |
| 14:20.39 | Lava_Croft | i know |
| 14:21.03 | b-r-a-i-n | hi guys.. good to be back |
| 14:21.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi b-r-a-i-n |
| 14:21.20 | vi__ | yo |
| 14:24.43 | b-r-a-i-n | i had time to shake openpandora in my hands and glimpse of insane idea appeared in my mind. will it be nearly possible to create "upgrade" version of n900 motherboard? |
| 14:28.54 | vi__ | yes, it is called the gta04 |
| 14:28.55 | vi__ | ! |
| 14:32.27 | b-r-a-i-n | thats openmoko. good thing but insane price and design. and its not compatible with n900 case |
| 14:32.53 | vi__ | perhaps I meant gta05 |
| 14:32.57 | vi__ | sorry. |
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| 14:42.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | check backlog for N904 |
| 14:42.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
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| 14:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I don't see how gta04 is insane priced, given the fact that my first N900 costs me ~600EUR as well |
| 14:44.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 14:48.43 | wmarone | to be fair, the N900 cost $600 four years ago and came with a case. And back then its hardware was high end. |
| 14:53.31 | b-r-a-i-n | i bought n900 in china for 130$ |
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| 14:56.02 | Lava_Croft | its hardware was high end? |
| 14:56.09 | Lava_Croft | it wasnt really high end hw |
| 14:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04 is at least as highend as N900 been, for its class of completely FOSS and open documentation low volume "DIY" devices |
| 15:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't compete with pricetag of a samsung based on custom made chipset and display, unless you're willing to sell same volumes so you could afford similar but open and community driven production of your own custom made components |
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| 15:48.54 | ecc3g | is there a program that will blink the yellow LED depending on state+rate of charge? (say, fast blink during fast charge, normal blink when normal/slow charge, and slow blink when nearing full)? |
| 15:52.54 | Lava_Croft | superglue: the friend of my n900s |
| 16:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ecc3g: I planned sth like that, dunno why I never actually did it |
| 16:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be some arbitrary limitation of the lp5523 kernel driver |
| 16:06.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | *basically* you could write such a program as lp5523 engine "pattern program" that would work autonomously on lp5523 indicator LED control chip |
| 16:09.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ecc3g: the basic plot goes like this: read out battery voltage via lp5523 internal A/D-converter. Adjust blink frequency via an algorithm that compares battery voltage to some thresholds |
| 16:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas neither kernel lp5523-driver nor mci support the needed functionality to control the lp5523 chip on that level |
| 16:12.01 | Pali | you need to create all led patterns, then add them to mce.ini (there is some extras-devel tool for it, usbmode using it) |
| 16:12.36 | Pali | and then periodically read voltage or capacity from bq27200 chip and tell mce to switch to another led pattern |
| 16:13.33 | Pali | bme replacement export all info via /sys and also via dbus (hal), so you can create app which wait for dbus signal and then tell mce led pattern |
| 16:14.26 | Pali | it could not be hard |
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| 16:23.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but that's so... boring |
| 16:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 16:25.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you could do same with just a few dozen bytes of LP5523 engine code |
| 16:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that concept would work without any special kernel and even without any CPU support at all, since it runs autonomously on the LED controller |
| 16:31.16 | ecc3g | this would be "neat" and tell people quickly that their wall charger sucks... :( |
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| 17:04.17 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, why don't you kick start an OMAP5 board for N900? |
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| 21:57.15 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
