| 00:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | when however once in your life you already broke a screw while fastening it, or you had a car accident no matter if your fault or somebody else's, then you might want to make sure nothing breaks with USB port of your N900. At least when you care enough about this little device to bother doing the hassle of reinforcing the USB |
| 00:01.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I for one didn't reinforce mine so far |
| 00:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | buth I checked the soldering on both N900 that I actually use regularly |
| 00:02.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | but* |
| 00:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I found the soldering looked decent |
| 00:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be some devices with flawed soldering of USB port |
| 00:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure there are users that simply lack the motoric skills to handle the USB plug |
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| 00:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not one of them, so I decided to take the risk |
| 00:04.45 | lansiir | Alright. |
| 00:05.31 | lansiir | I'm pretty good with electronics, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it, knowwhatimean? |
| 00:05.48 | ShadowJK | Important to pull out the usb plug straight |
| 00:06.08 | RiD | lansiir except usb, always fix usb |
| 00:06.15 | RiD | dont make the same mistake i did |
| 00:06.39 | lansiir | RiD: Which was? :o |
| 00:06.56 | lansiir | ShadowJK: Already filed down most of my USB ports. |
| 00:07.01 | RiD | not soldering down the microusb port before it was too late |
| 00:07.26 | ShadowJK | I'm on my 4th N900 and never broken a usb port so fa |
| 00:07.50 | RiD | maybe because you've been switching around? :P |
| 00:08.22 | ShadowJK | But then I've also seen people with q month old Lumias with broken usb ports |
| 00:09.15 | WizardNumberNext | thats nothing I have seen month old computer case with broken usb port |
| 00:09.33 | RiD | don't call me uncareful :z |
| 00:09.41 | WizardNumberNext | but breaking any port in 1 month is really bad achievement |
| 00:09.59 | RiD | it broke after 2 years and 2 or 3 months |
| 00:10.47 | WizardNumberNext | mine was used by my father, who knew nothing about those ports and I use it already for rawly 7 mopnth |
| 00:11.17 | WizardNumberNext | for 2 months using same battery and charging from computer ONLY |
| 00:11.31 | WizardNumberNext | I even don't know where is my second charger |
| 00:12.52 | WizardNumberNext | never have been more happy with any other "smartphone" |
| 00:13.38 | WizardNumberNext | I even used to have to have SG3, but after 1 day of use I said it is crap |
| 00:13.58 | RiD | wanna trade your sg3 for my n900? |
| 00:14.20 | WizardNumberNext | I expect smartphone to wake me up even if it is dead and battery is at edge of being of any use |
| 00:14.29 | WizardNumberNext | this SG3 never been mine |
| 00:14.33 | RiD | I'll sell it and buy 2 n900s |
| 00:14.38 | RiD | or 3 |
| 00:14.43 | WizardNumberNext | I borough it after my n95 have died |
| 00:15.00 | WizardNumberNext | hahaha - I would do same |
| 00:15.31 | RiD | nah i'd just buy 1 n900 and save the money for a pc upgrade |
| 00:15.46 | WizardNumberNext | I think I would get contact with SG3 or SG4 just to sell it an buy proper phone (n900) |
| 00:16.13 | RiD | N900 is far from a proper phone |
| 00:16.20 | WizardNumberNext | RiD: are you trying to make joke? |
| 00:16.26 | RiD | it's one of the things it does worse :L |
| 00:16.47 | WizardNumberNext | how the hell SG3 can buy you both n900 and computer upgrade? |
| 00:17.16 | RiD | it can't, therefore "save the money" |
| 00:17.22 | WizardNumberNext | I am thinking about upgrade, but it would be at least 300gbp |
| 00:17.24 | RiD | therefor*? |
| 00:17.32 | WizardNumberNext | hahaha |
| 00:17.56 | RiD | WizardNumberNext i'd say to wait for "next-gen" consoles |
| 00:18.11 | RiD | so that at least gpu prices go down a little |
| 00:18.14 | WizardNumberNext | I want to get myself 32GiB DDR3-2133 9-9-9-? RAM and ASUS Crosshair Formula V Z |
| 00:18.59 | WizardNumberNext | I am not going to upgrade my GPU until GeForce 8xx series would come true - then I would buy two 680 |
| 00:20.02 | RiD | my gtx470 will have to last at least one more year |
| 00:20.22 | lansiir | RiD: What are you going to do with the old one? |
| 00:20.23 | WizardNumberNext | I cannot afford lower series - thermal envelope of anything else would kill me in 10 cubic metres |
| 00:20.38 | lansiir | heh |
| 00:20.46 | RiD | lansiir old what? |
| 00:21.09 | lansiir | RiD: Are you going to link the gtx470 with the new gtx? |
| 00:21.10 | RiD | thermal what |
| 00:21.13 | lansiir | ^ |
| 00:21.31 | RiD | you lost me on that |
| 00:21.37 | WizardNumberNext | heat, heat man |
| 00:21.41 | RiD | I don't understand what you are trying to say |
| 00:22.12 | WizardNumberNext | I need something as powerfull as possible, but no more heat then I already have |
| 00:22.29 | RiD | ah, i don't really care about heat :p |
| 00:22.30 | WizardNumberNext | I already have 2x 150W GPUs |
| 00:22.56 | lansiir | 150W? |
| 00:23.09 | WizardNumberNext | and overclocked AMD Phenom II 1090T (2.96GHz CPU-NB and 3.95GHz cores) |
| 00:23.14 | lansiir | Oh, GPU. |
| 00:23.53 | WizardNumberNext | I am living in happy lack of knowledge how much power this CPU is stilling to produce heat |
| 00:24.14 | WizardNumberNext | but bet it would well over 200W |
| 00:26.03 | WizardNumberNext | anyway... |
| 00:26.26 | WizardNumberNext | anybody had problems with lastest CSSU-testing update? |
| 00:27.13 | WizardNumberNext | I tried twice - twice same effect - first phone app is stopping to work, then cannot boot |
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| 01:42.12 | Bambi_BOFH | hi all, i suspect this will have a canned answer. after the upgrade two weekends ago my phone rotation has completely changed and ring/message tones were reset to defaults. i can manually fix the tones but is it possible to get the old rotation behaviour back? |
| 01:43.34 | Bambi_BOFH | previously i had a little indicator thingy that showed i had rotation locked to landscape mode - now it defaults to portrait and i have to open the keyboard to get landscape to come back |
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| 02:14.05 | chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, a recent update to cssu-testing allows the orientation lock applet to lock in either portrait or landscape, it sounds like you have it locked in portrait |
| 02:16.08 | Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: weird, i've had it locked like that for months (definitely since last year some time). i couldn't find anything in settings to change it so it lets me re-lock it but i'll have another look through and see if i can find something |
| 02:18.16 | chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, i think the applet is no longer installed by default("needed" by cssu) so apt may have uninstalled it |
| 02:19.27 | chainsawbike | for me its in the status?( tap on the clock...) menu |
| 02:20.29 | Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: thats where it used to be for me so i guess its been removed. i couldn't find it in the app manager but i will double check - might have just looked for the wrong things |
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| 02:30.49 | chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, its called "status-area-orientationlock-applet" :) |
| 02:31.10 | Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: you were right, it had been uninstalled and i had failed to find it in the app manager :) |
| 02:31.21 | Bambi_BOFH | one gold star for chainsawbike, thank you! |
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| 09:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Bambi_BOFH: you also might want to have a look at: |
| 09:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 09:19.32 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 09:20.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a command how to basically turn off rotation completely |
| 09:21.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | while still allowing it for apps that intentionally do portrait, like dialer (when set accordingly in dialer's settings menu) |
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| 09:56.49 | BCMM | my n900 hung up completely, and i had to take out the battery to get it to restart |
| 09:57.06 | BCMM | now almost none of my icons are visible. has anyone had a similar issue? |
| 09:57.22 | WizardNumberNext | I had such problem once maybe twice |
| 09:57.30 | WizardNumberNext | did you touch voltages on CPU? |
| 09:58.20 | BCMM | WizardNumberNext: no |
| 09:58.34 | BCMM | never changed any clocks or voltages |
| 09:58.40 | WizardNumberNext | SmartReflex? |
| 09:59.09 | BCMM | that's the potentially unstable power-saving feature right? |
| 09:59.30 | WizardNumberNext | n900 have at least two (I remeber two of them) watchdogs, so it should reset itself |
| 10:00.01 | WizardNumberNext | usualy SR is stable up to 600MHz |
| 10:00.27 | WizardNumberNext | anything beyond and SR might cause spontaneous resets |
| 10:00.51 | WizardNumberNext | I am running on SR almoist from start |
| 10:01.05 | WizardNumberNext | but I locked mine to 600MHz |
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| 10:02.44 | WizardNumberNext | 250MHz is stilling your battery, as going to sleep and waking up takes twice as much time, and work takes twice as much as on 500MHz, so in the end it doesn't improve battery life, but worsen it |
| 10:03.00 | WizardNumberNext | so get rid of 250MHz |
| 10:03.07 | BCMM | WizardNumberNext: i think i experimented with smartreflex but i can't remember whether i left it on or off |
| 10:03.09 | BCMM | how do i check? |
| 10:03.16 | WizardNumberNext | I find mine to be most power-efficient at 600MHz |
| 10:03.19 | BCMM | i know it's been running fine for weeks |
| 10:03.42 | WizardNumberNext | it is somewhere in /proc I think |
| 10:03.50 | WizardNumberNext | or /sys/power |
| 10:04.08 | WizardNumberNext | need to connect to wireless to check |
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| 10:04.29 | WizardNumberNext | but first I need to make my "morning" green tea |
| 10:05.28 | WizardNumberNext | bbs |
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| 10:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: sorry, that's nonsense |
| 10:17.42 | WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: which one? |
| 10:18.28 | WizardNumberNext | my brain is still sleeping, so please forgive me for any nonsense |
| 10:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: freq governor should be quite sensibly tuned to use 250 only when it has better power balance than run-to-idle @ 600MHz |
| 10:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and locking CPU to 600MHz is what IvanS. HW-ChiefDesigner of Nokia explicitly said you MUST NOT (2119) do since it fries the CPU |
| 10:20.00 | WizardNumberNext | Doc don't you think that n900 is sleeping most of its life? I am not trying to argue, but trying to find reason why you think that |
| 10:20.19 | WizardNumberNext | yes I read this one |
| 10:20.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, e.g. during a call CPU is never sleeping at all |
| 10:21.49 | WizardNumberNext | wait I do not remember, whether during call CPUs freq is scaled or locked |
| 10:22.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | so a 30min call will most likely fry your device, due to thermal design capacity and also CPU livetime <15kh at *80°C* (iirc) if CPU is 10°C hotter then this goes down by factors |
| 10:22.44 | WizardNumberNext | never did |
| 10:22.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | 500MHz is nominal mac CPU clock, 600 is factory overdrive |
| 10:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | max* |
| 10:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | locking CPU clock to overdrive is a +really* BAD THING[TM] to do |
| 10:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: you're free to experiment how much you can tune your car err N900, and suffer breakdowns as many as you can afford. But please don't suggest it's a sane thing to do for others who maybe don't understand the risk |
| 10:26.07 | BCMM | WizardNumberNext, DocScrutinizer05: i did test smartreflex a couple of times, but never changed any config files to make it permenant |
| 10:26.14 | BCMM | nor have i changed any frequencies |
| 10:26.26 | BCMM | any idea how to make my icons come back? |
| 10:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: SR allegedly has hw flaws which might cause glitches under certain conditions. It's deprecated by Nokia afaik, maybe due to silicon error, maybe due to PCB layout or circuit design error |
| 10:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | however we never heard SR will kill your hw, it's just considered instable |
| 10:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | OC however *IS* killing your device, sooner or later |
| 10:28.56 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i know, haven't OCed it for that reason |
| 10:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really get upsaet every time I hear sb saying "I OC since years and *so far* *my* device survived that" |
| 10:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and locking device to >500MHz is a really nasty OC mode |
| 10:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a silly one too |
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| 10:35.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<WizardNumberNext> 250MHz is stilling your battery, as going to sleep and waking up takes twice as much time, and work takes twice as much as on 500MHz, so in the end it doesn't improve battery life, but worsen it)) incorrect since a) going to sleep doesn't take much time anyway, since with zeroclock there's no overhead in "going to sleep" it's simply switching off components in CPU that are waiting. But anyway whatever overhead might |
| 10:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | be involved with "going to sleep" the point of 250MHz is it doesn't do that at all, or at least way less frequently, e.g when playing mp3 |
| 10:37.10 | WizardNumberNext | in the end is still worsen battery life |
| 10:37.15 | teotwaki | It's a design parody when you have to downclock your CPU for mp3 usage because the DSP is so inefficient. |
| 10:37.16 | WizardNumberNext | and this is main point |
| 10:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the equation is still made up since it's not about duration/time of anything but about joule the whole process consumes |
| 10:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: eh? |
| 10:38.12 | teotwaki | well, using the DSP keeps the CPU alive, no? |
| 10:38.39 | teotwaki | so you can't efficiently use the DSP when you're only playing mp3s, because it's more efficient to use the CPU alone? |
| 10:38.42 | teotwaki | At least, that's what I remember. |
| 10:39.05 | WizardNumberNext | then 500MHz Must be more efficient, then 250MHz, as leakage current is same on both 250MHz and 500MHz, but voltage is slightly changed |
| 10:39.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and regarding joule per process it's not that simple to say anything takes twice as long so it is twice as power hungry since the whole point of lower clock is lower poser consumption at lower clock rates |
| 10:40.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: the DSP is not ideally set up and routed hw wise for mp3 playback |
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| 10:40.10 | WizardNumberNext | yes, but you still forget about leackage current, which isn't involved in computation, so is pure waste |
| 10:40.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't run PA on DSP |
| 10:40.26 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: so as I said, it's a design parody :) |
| 10:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | leakage current is the same for zeroclock and 900MHz |
| 10:41.07 | WizardNumberNext | and that is the point! |
| 10:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 10:41.32 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: you have an amazing ability to make a point, then flip it around 180 degrees to prove something else. |
| 10:41.47 | WizardNumberNext | then 250MHz simply cannot be more power-efficient, then 500MHz |
| 10:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 10:41.57 | teotwaki | than* |
| 10:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since it's not raining outside my bank account simply can't be in the negatives |
| 10:42.54 | WizardNumberNext | and 500MHz enables you to do task twice as fast, so CPU can sleep twice as long |
| 10:43.09 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: eh? |
| 10:43.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | SO WHAT when it draws same leakage current while sleeping?? |
| 10:43.37 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: but if the CPU uses twice as much power to run twice as fast, that's a null operation. |
| 10:43.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: exactly |
| 10:43.45 | WizardNumberNext | teotwaki: I think that rain and bank was about my consideration about cpu power |
| 10:44.10 | teotwaki | and looking at how CPUs scale, I doubt doubling the frequency results in *only* doubling the power usage. |
| 10:44.18 | WizardNumberNext | but then is sleeping twice as long taking almost no power |
| 10:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and CPU is not using twice the power but maybe 3 times the power at double clock speed |
| 10:44.38 | WizardNumberNext | teotwaki - it is more than double |
| 10:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: exactly, again |
| 10:45.25 | teotwaki | so running at 500Mhz for mp3 playback is idiotic. |
| 10:45.51 | WizardNumberNext | anyway most today's CPUs are running on too big voltage anyway |
| 10:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 10:46.10 | WizardNumberNext | for instance - nokia gives us 60 at 600MHz |
| 10:46.17 | WizardNumberNext | I been running on 48 |
| 10:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | your greenpeace consultant told you that? |
| 10:46.42 | WizardNumberNext | AMD gives us 1.45v on 3.6GHz - it is sufficient for 4.0GHz |
| 10:47.22 | teotwaki | You do realise that voltage has little to do with power usage, right? |
| 10:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since AMD only hires idiots from mental house to do ther power profile evaluations |
| 10:48.10 | WizardNumberNext | and in case of Phenom II 1090T I even don't know, because I favour CPU-NB clock, not CPU clock |
| 10:48.55 | teotwaki | "ZOMG, that cable has 1 billion volts on it" "Yeah, but it only gives out 1 nano amp, so total power output is 1W". |
| 10:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just that they have other aims regarding device stability and reliability than you obviously are willing to tolerate |
| 10:49.03 | WizardNumberNext | AMD always was either lowering clock or raise votage to be perfectly sure their chips will always deliver even on poorly designed power supplys |
| 10:49.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure |
| 10:50.03 | WizardNumberNext | man I am running kernel, which was compiled entirielly in RAM - that is quite good test for stability |
| 10:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | powersuplies, suure |
| 10:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's nothing |
| 10:50.47 | teotwaki | who the fuck is WizardNumberNext? |
| 10:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | you obviously have no clue about testing hw for stability |
| 10:51.03 | teotwaki | Is he just some troll or something? |
| 10:51.49 | WizardNumberNext | i9f it comes to power supplies - ASUS M4N78 PRO - ma clock 3.7GHz/1.5v and even littlest step further and it becomes unstable. ASUS M5A97 - 4.0GHz perfectly stable with 1.45v |
| 10:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | just one of the zillion WFM followers |
| 10:52.12 | teotwaki | or is he one of the government-conspiracy-crazies who happened to stumble upon a couple of hak5 episodes, and decided he was going to revolutionise the computing industry? |
| 10:52.26 | Lava_Croft | oh boy there is a disagreement |
| 10:52.31 | Lava_Croft | lets quickly start calling the other a troll and what not |
| 10:52.34 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 10:52.39 | Lava_Croft | because THOSE are the real good arguments |
| 10:52.49 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: has nothing to do with disagreement, just the randomness of his topics. |
| 10:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: ack |
| 10:53.08 | Lava_Croft | teotwaki: if you need to call him a troll of tinfoil hat crazy in order to beat his random statements |
| 10:53.12 | Lava_Croft | i guess you just not good enough! |
| 10:53.15 | WizardNumberNext | teotwaki I think it might be very hard to revolutionize computing industry without few bilion us dollars |
| 10:53.25 | Lava_Croft | stick to the facts! :) |
| 10:53.32 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: I'm not trying to beat him. |
| 10:53.53 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: he doesn't answer questions, just flows from topic to topic until he can get a raise out of one of us. |
| 10:54.16 | Lava_Croft | protip: just stop talking to him then |
| 10:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: as mentioned above, you just have different requirements/standards for your definition of "stable" |
| 10:54.47 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: wait, what, I'm not free to do whatever I want? OMG. |
| 10:54.52 | Lava_Croft | eh? |
| 10:54.59 | teotwaki | ZOMG, I'm not a pro! |
| 10:55.05 | WizardNumberNext | seriously I am going to do prime test some time iun future |
| 10:55.14 | teotwaki | prime test? |
| 10:55.34 | WizardNumberNext | anyway normaly nobody is running such computational intesive task every day |
| 10:56.02 | teotwaki | well, there might still be a bunch of bitcoin people hoping to get lucky on CPUs. |
| 10:56.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | in industry "stable" means that it works in full temperature range and full voltage range allowed and full signal distortion and S/N range on all manufacturing variances, with a defined very low MTBF |
| 10:56.23 | WizardNumberNext | lucky? in what way? |
| 10:56.52 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: well, lucky in that CPU mining is all but pointless now. |
| 10:57.17 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: look at GIMPS, last I checked they still had people running a lot of primality algorithms on CPUs. |
| 10:57.44 | WizardNumberNext | teotwaki - I might join some time in future |
| 10:58.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I missed to add: on all CPU opcodes allowed, in all possible sequences of thos opcodes |
| 10:58.18 | WizardNumberNext | but then I would have to lower my CPU clock, as there is big enough chance for overheat |
| 10:58.57 | WizardNumberNext | doc: those undocumented too? |
| 10:59.13 | teotwaki | anyway, 'later. |
| 10:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your RAM based kernel compilation at a certain moderate room temperature in a certain average condition, using ~95% of existing CPU opcodes, doesn't mean anything regarding how reasonable are CPU manufacturer's recommended operating conditions |
| 11:00.10 | Lava_Croft | i think i can explain this |
| 11:00.19 | Lava_Croft | if my bicycle has a flat tire and i repair it myself |
| 11:00.22 | Lava_Croft | my testing takes 2 minutes |
| 11:00.27 | Lava_Croft | if the tire doesnt run flat again, its fixt |
| 11:00.32 | Lava_Croft | now if i was AMD and i fixed tires |
| 11:00.38 | Lava_Croft | i would test each repaired tire for a week |
| 11:00.50 | Lava_Croft | in every crazy near impossible scenario possible |
| 11:01.04 | Lava_Croft | it seems WizardNumberNext does it my way |
| 11:01.22 | Lava_Croft | and DocScrutinizer05 tries to explain that while it might work fine, its hardly a standard |
| 11:01.42 | WizardNumberNext | obviously, I am only one person, not thousands ;) |
| 11:01.43 | Lava_Croft | am i far off? |
| 11:01.59 | teotwaki | Nope. |
| 11:02.14 | teotwaki | Well, a couple of miles, depends on whether your tyre is flat or not. |
| 11:02.27 | WizardNumberNext | and if it comes to standards, yes doc is right |
| 11:02.30 | teotwaki | One of them argues that because he tested his tyre quickly, and it seemed fine, anyone could run it at 200PSI. |
| 11:02.39 | vi__ | what is a hak5? |
| 11:03.00 | teotwaki | Doc explained that just bouncing it off the ground twice doesn't really prove it's going to withstand a hippo sitting on it. |
| 11:03.09 | WizardNumberNext | I was wondering about hak5 for while as well, but dropped it |
| 11:03.19 | teotwaki | ~google hak5 |
| 11:03.26 | vi__ | is it like a gibson? |
| 11:03.28 | teotwaki | ~useless |
| 11:03.29 | infobot | ACTION starts crying and hides from teotwaki in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 11:03.36 | teotwaki | ~ggl hak5 |
| 11:03.46 | teotwaki | gives up. |
| 11:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki hak5 |
| 11:04.25 | Lava_Croft | http://hak5.org/ |
| 11:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, and while your analogy to tires is nice, what I try to say is not about hippos sitting on it but about tire manufacturer is obliged to make sure all his tires will not go flat even after 3 months |
| 11:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for new tires |
| 11:06.18 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 11:06.22 | Lava_Croft | which is kind of what i meant |
| 11:06.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is sth completely different to the WFM approach of somebody *fixing* his tire |
| 11:06.45 | Lava_Croft | there is just a difference between what a single consumer might see as 'working fine' and what a big company sees as 'working fine' |
| 11:06.46 | teotwaki | Actually, I've had loads of tyres going flat after couple days of usage. |
| 11:06.49 | Lava_Croft | yup |
| 11:07.01 | Lava_Croft | see, no need to call him a troll of tinfoil hat loony! |
| 11:07.03 | Lava_Croft | er loonie* |
| 11:07.12 | Lava_Croft | my goodness temperatures are ruining my typing |
| 11:09.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: I guess that's still tolerable since you can inflate it any time, and you notice it in the morning when starting your ride that it needs some more air. But when your tire would go flat all of a sudden (like a glitch in a CPU at 1+1=714) then you probbaly would shoot the manufacturer of that tire |
| 11:09.17 | WizardNumberNext | going to see WinAwe to playy some games |
| 11:09.52 | Lava_Croft | suddenly goes flat when driving 120km/h |
| 11:09.56 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: I'll call anyone anything I want, thank you very much. |
| 11:10.05 | Lava_Croft | teotwaki: i wasnt implying anything else |
| 11:10.12 | Lava_Croft | there is no need to' |
| 11:10.19 | Lava_Croft | is different from 'you arent allowed to' |
| 11:10.44 | teotwaki | actually, that's exactly what it says, it just adds a very condescending tone to it. |
| 11:10.55 | Lava_Croft | i cant help it how words sound to you |
| 11:11.13 | Lava_Croft | i know what i said and my intentions with saying it, the rest is up to you |
| 11:11.30 | Lava_Croft | maybe if you sit on your knees, you can let the negativity higher than your nose |
| 11:11.33 | Lava_Croft | and you could drown in it! |
| 11:11.56 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: Actually, most slow leaks you get come from punctures or pinches, not defects. In my experience, defects usually come in the form of tyre simply not inflating, cap popping or catastrophic failure while riding. |
| 11:12.44 | teotwaki | Lava_Croft: that's very offensive. I'm a small person. |
| 11:14.26 | teotwaki | Anyway, as I said earlier, 'later. |
| 11:14.50 | teotwaki | (also, am not a small person) |
| 11:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, back to initial topic: while anybody may suggest blocking 250MHz for allegedly better power saving, you MUST NOT suggest locking CPU to 600MHz since then I have to act about it. It's not allowed to suggest potentially damaging measures without clearly explaining the danger they come with |
| 11:19.59 | Lava_Croft | isnt this more about people blindly doing what someone else suggests instead of about whatever random placebo someone comes up with |
| 11:20.51 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 11:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if it's about flooding the USB receptacle with 50ml superglue to allegedly reinforce it, about locking CPU to 600MHz to allegedly safe power (actually energy), or placing the device into oven @90°C to allegedly get higher charging to 130% of nominal capacity into battery. It's not allowed |
| 11:21.47 | Lava_Croft | oh, i wasnt aware of channel rules surrounding such placebos :| |
| 11:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | not allowed to suggest it publicly without proper warning |
| 11:22.23 | Lava_Croft | might not be unwise, given the insane amount of placebos there are for the n900 |
| 11:22.38 | Lava_Croft | well, placebo is the wrong word, since a lot of them do cause trouble/damage |
| 11:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/safe/save/ |
| 11:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the point |
| 11:24.04 | vi__ | "or placing the device into oven @90°C to allegedly get higher charging to 130% of nominal capacity" |
| 11:24.07 | vi__ | ^rofl, wat? |
| 11:24.19 | Lava_Croft | vi__: the world if full of awesome SECRETS like that |
| 11:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a simple transfer of repo contribution rules to general communication |
| 11:24.32 | vi__ | brb, microwaving my fone. |
| 11:25.26 | vi__ | The point at which cpu power use really rises on the n900 is above 600MHz. |
| 11:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hands vi__ a 50ml bottle of superglue |
| 11:25.55 | vi__ | heh, I already used electric glue. AKA solder. |
| 11:26.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 11:26.42 | Lava_Croft | i have this USB port that just wont break |
| 11:26.53 | Lava_Croft | everytime i charge, i pry it a bit to see if its loose |
| 11:26.55 | vi__ | try harder. |
| 11:27.02 | Lava_Croft | for the past nearly 4 years, nothing happened |
| 11:27.09 | Lava_Croft | on 3 different n900s :D |
| 11:27.12 | vi__ | You are the only one! |
| 11:27.18 | Lava_Croft | i have an N9 that fell apart |
| 11:27.22 | Lava_Croft | i guess that was my punishment |
| 11:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, here as well |
| 11:27.27 | vi__ | On saying that, none of my n900s have broken USB ports either. |
| 11:28.05 | vi__ | It is those stories you read where users say 'my n900 will only charge if I hold the cable in at an angle'. |
| 11:28.12 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 11:28.28 | Lava_Croft | my n9's usb port is a bit iffy with that |
| 11:28.36 | Lava_Croft | sometimes you need to tug the cable a bit to get it to make contact |
| 11:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: I'd think it's not exactly desirable to have a N9, but calling it a punishment is a little harsh ;-P |
| 11:28.43 | Lava_Croft | damn finns cant assemble phones, i swear |
| 11:28.52 | vi__ | also, why would blocking 250MHz save you power? |
| 11:28.54 | Lava_Croft | i mean it falling apart as punishment |
| 11:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 11:29.01 | Lava_Croft | the n9 itself is really great, as a smartphone |
| 11:29.22 | Lava_Croft | nothing feels better as a fulltouch phone than the n9 |
| 11:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a *phone* I tend to agree |
| 11:29.50 | Lava_Croft | well, yeah, thats what it was meant to be |
| 11:29.52 | Lava_Croft | a smartphone, not a MID |
| 11:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never considered my N900 a phone though |
| 11:30.01 | Lava_Croft | same here |
| 11:30.10 | Lava_Croft | its just my pocketPC only my PocketPC is a real PC |
| 11:30.13 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 11:30.33 | Lava_Croft | but the n9 makes for a good phone-like phone |
| 11:30.48 | Lava_Croft | camera is nice too |
| 11:31.00 | Lava_Croft | no hdr tho, which is ridiculous |
| 11:31.31 | vi__ | On device HDR is over-rated. |
| 11:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and that's been the major conceptual flaw of N9/HARM - Nokia binned the NIT concept and moved on to "smartphone" which is an idea/concept that I actually hate |
| 11:31.56 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:31.56 | Lava_Croft | there is really not a single N9 app to allow for HDR photography |
| 11:32.01 | vi__ | Especially ones that cannot take rapid sequences of shots. |
| 11:32.03 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: yes |
| 11:32.10 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: you saw the early concepts of Harmattan GUI right |
| 11:32.15 | Lava_Croft | that looked like something i would really want |
| 11:32.22 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@static-84-242-103-180.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 11:32.29 | Lava_Croft | then it changed to this highly stylized and very smooth but also totally limited Swipe stuff |
| 11:32.58 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-20121010223740579127.jpg |
| 11:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod; |
| 11:33.06 | Lava_Croft | i can still feel sad when i see that |
| 11:33.38 | Lava_Croft | but meh, Nokia is basically done for in my book |
| 11:33.45 | Lava_Croft | they dont have any products i would want |
| 11:33.54 | Lava_Croft | well, id pay money for a new Booklet |
| 11:35.04 | ashley | nobody wants to pay Nokia money to have Blue Screens of Death on their phones ;) |
| 11:35.26 | Lava_Croft | stop living in the past |
| 11:35.34 | Lava_Croft | BSoD is about as common these days as kernel panics on linux |
| 11:35.46 | Lava_Croft | I havent had a single BSoD on my Win7 box ever since i installed win7 :) |
| 11:36.01 | ashley | I just had one on my Windows 7 box like 5 days ago, so yeah |
| 11:36.04 | Lava_Croft | heh |
| 11:36.11 | Lava_Croft | well, i have kernel panics too, sometimes! :) |
| 11:36.23 | Lava_Croft | still, nokia is using crippled software, yes |
| 11:36.30 | Lava_Croft | i guess the whole world except Redmond agrees on that |
| 11:37.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even for a smartphone, the N9 (and sailfish?) is way too focused / placing emphasis on that sozial network stuff that I hate so much |
| 11:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and sailfish even has the appshop on "screen4" - OMFG how insane is *that*? |
| 11:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not amazon? |
| 11:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | or youporn? |
| 11:40.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | or a single huge 911 call button |
| 11:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple! because that all wouldn't payback for Jolla |
| 11:41.16 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dennis@116.228.88.131) |
| 11:43.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | jury still out on whether it's simple to change screen4 from appshop to xterm |
| 11:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that they don't make that an advertising point that it's possible to replace appshop on screen4 by $yourapp already makes me sad or rather reluctant |
| 11:45.32 | *** join/#maemo mvp (~mvp@dhcp-1.q.wlan.net.bme.hu) |
| 11:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and while we're at it, please let me replace the "feeds" (or whatever they call all that twitter/SMS/facebook/whatnot stuff on screen3) by good old xterm |
| 11:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | err xchat |
| 11:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | screen2: apmefo/catorize please |
| 11:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | screen1: hildon desktop |
| 11:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl min 4 screens, widgets, all |
| 11:50.01 | Lava_Croft | the feeds screen is very nice |
| 11:50.12 | Lava_Croft | overall the swipe system is the best smartphone GUI ive ever used |
| 11:50.23 | Lava_Croft | my problem is just my previous device and my first ever 'smart' device, the n900 |
| 11:50.33 | Lava_Croft | it just sets a standard that is hard to surpass |
| 11:50.58 | Lava_Croft | anyone who i give my N9 to is someone who immediately likes the device |
| 11:51.23 | Lava_Croft | except the broken 'system-ui' menu you have at the top of the screen, they can work with it right away |
| 11:51.36 | Lava_Croft | and ill not mention how people touch the device itself |
| 11:51.47 | Lava_Croft | sometimes you almost feel like wiping the device afterwards |
| 11:52.18 | Lava_Croft | just dont compare it to Maemo5/n900 |
| 11:52.30 | Lava_Croft | look at it as a smartphone and then notice all the maemo-ish stuff it has |
| 11:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | not good enough for me |
| 11:53.14 | Lava_Croft | its my type of device, but its a maemo device after all |
| 11:53.25 | Lava_Croft | er |
| 11:53.28 | Lava_Croft | its not my type of device* |
| 11:53.42 | Lava_Croft | it lacks HW keyb, no FM transmitter, no HW camera button |
| 11:54.21 | Lava_Croft | but its still a smartphone that runs the near-same crazy mutant debian as the n900 |
| 11:54.34 | ashley | aye, a hardware keyboard is pretty must for, well, anyone |
| 11:54.44 | Lava_Croft | well, anyone in this channel maybe :) |
| 11:55.01 | ashley | meh, hipsters can stick to their iPhones and whatnot :P |
| 11:55.08 | Lava_Croft | but most for most people a HW keyboard = twice devices |
| 11:55.14 | Lava_Croft | ;) |
| 11:55.23 | Lava_Croft | well, it kind of works OK to use xterm on the N9 |
| 11:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: that's exactly what N9 is: a me-too-iPhone |
| 11:55.30 | Lava_Croft | better than i expected, but its still a far cry from the n900 |
| 11:55.35 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: thats not true |
| 11:55.48 | Lava_Croft | that is a false assumption concerning the N9 |
| 11:55.50 | ashley | I still remember the Nokia 9210 Communicator...one of the best phones I've ever owned (kinda hard to pick which one is better, that or the N900 :P) |
| 11:56.03 | Lava_Croft | its a smartphone, but its built from a much different perspective/philosophy than the iphone |
| 11:56.20 | ashley | well, the N9 has seemed to me like Nokia's take on (beating) iPhone -- I dunno about the internal philosophies and whatnot |
| 11:56.25 | Lava_Croft | but the days that nokia devices with HW keyboards were the devives that kids dreamt about are just over |
| 11:56.39 | Lava_Croft | probably forever |
| 11:56.51 | ashley | and don't get me wrong, the N9 is a relatively nifty device, I just wish it had a better, user-replaceable battery |
| 11:56.53 | Lava_Croft | it would have made no sense for nokia to create another HW keyb device, no matter how much you and i want one |
| 11:57.00 | Lava_Croft | no shit about the battery |
| 11:57.03 | Lava_Croft | or the USB door |
| 11:57.11 | Lava_Croft | or the fact that the camera module tends to start tearing up the shell |
| 11:57.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me started what I think about what kids dream of |
| 11:57.17 | Lava_Croft | by splitting it open, very slowly |
| 11:57.30 | Lava_Croft | or the fact that the film covering the shell just tears off |
| 11:57.30 | rikanee | the N9, imo, could've been something, but it was a pretty solid foundation for what could've been. |
| 11:57.35 | Lava_Croft | no matter how well you treat the device |
| 11:57.41 | Lava_Croft | shit just chips off |
| 11:58.07 | Lava_Croft | the N9 is a clear indication that Nokia could have made it fine without Windows Phone |
| 11:58.15 | ashley | damn right |
| 11:58.17 | Lava_Croft | and still be able to make both the smartphones and the MIDs |
| 11:58.39 | Lava_Croft | im not a brand type person, but when you think of Elop saying Meego wasnt ready |
| 11:58.51 | Lava_Croft | and then looking at the WP7 software running on my brother's HTC device |
| 11:59.00 | Lava_Croft | i get a little agitated |
| 11:59.16 | Lava_Croft | and wonder if that was ready |
| 11:59.26 | rikanee | Lava_Croft: you could imagine how I felt when I saw that the N9 could actually read Office files out of the box |
| 11:59.27 | Lava_Croft | oh well, not a day for agitation! |
| 11:59.44 | Lava_Croft | rikanee: imagine how i felt when i saw no support for internet radio in mediaplyer on n9 |
| 11:59.48 | Lava_Croft | :P |
| 12:00.18 | rikanee | ehh, well, regression from Maemo 5 ;) |
| 12:00.21 | Lava_Croft | theres gaping holes in harmattan on the n9, but its just so special :) |
| 12:00.26 | Lava_Croft | and so Nokia |
| 12:00.43 | Lava_Croft | hardware and sofware as a complete package |
| 12:00.44 | rikanee | Lava_Croft: really? imo all I lack is games, really. |
| 12:00.55 | Lava_Croft | i dont really play games on it, my wife has an iphone and we have a nexus7 |
| 12:00.57 | rikanee | (an IR transmitter would be handy, but alas) |
| 12:01.17 | Lava_Croft | i beat oregon trail on n900 and thats about it:) |
| 12:01.24 | ashley | Harmattan lacks speed dialing function -- that was quite a surprise to me at least, since like most Nokia phones have had that basic & essential feature |
| 12:01.31 | rikanee | SMS, calls, media player, video, camera, office, Linux shell, what more? |
| 12:01.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I wish all friggin appliances finally moved on and binned IR in favor of BT |
| 12:01.39 | Lava_Croft | i dont use speed dial, i do use the shortcut menu a lot to get to the phone |
| 12:01.46 | Lava_Croft | you know, half-pull up the screen |
| 12:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't you feel like getting trolled each time you need to point at your TV with that IR remote? |
| 12:02.15 | Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: i reckon the cost of IR is a fraction of BT |
| 12:02.39 | Lava_Croft | and hihi playing with IR remotes |
| 12:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, maybe half |
| 12:02.45 | Lava_Croft | you remember those watches from back in zee day |
| 12:02.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, got one |
| 12:02.56 | Lava_Croft | god that was fun |
| 12:03.04 | Lava_Croft | then we got those universal remotes |
| 12:03.11 | Lava_Croft | those had a way more powerful transmitter |
| 12:04.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah CIR is soooo 70s |
| 12:05.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can't find a single friggin TV using BT, WLAN, or just 443MHz remote |
| 12:06.20 | jaska | ha, my aunt had a tv with ultrasonic remote |
| 12:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so when your TV is placed on the floor you need to lift the remote from table each time you want to send a command to TV |
| 12:07.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ultrasonic is 60s |
| 12:07.16 | jaska | it was a color tv tho.. which wasnt so common here in 60s |
| 12:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, ok, make that 80s and 70s then |
| 12:07.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | while in the 50s they had cable remote |
| 12:07.54 | jaska | prolly 70s.. it was early 90s or late 80s when i saw it |
| 12:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 12:08.04 | jaska | ive seen cable remotes too, but in 80s stuff |
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| 12:09.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, my Akai GX635 had a remote 11pin DIN plug, which I built a remote with nice keys and 12m cable for |
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| 12:09.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | been ~1980 |
| 12:14.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, *my* gta04 specs from times back with Openmoko had a 4xx/8xx transceiver ;-D |
| 12:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pity OM never came to manufacture that device |
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| 12:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | (it also had an bidir IR interface) |
| 12:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | both CIR and IrDA |
| 12:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | optimized for CIR |
| 12:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and IrDA just dual-use |
| 12:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | reminds me to move that N904 ML thread to tmo and add Nikolaus' answer |
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| 12:24.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Since I read between your words that nobody from the N900 community has done it yet, I am not sure if we can do it better in reasonable time and missing big budget. I would be happy if anyone proves me wrong by working on it and showing tangible results. I think this community will then try to help as good as possible. |
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| 12:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus |
| 12:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | PS: if someone wants donate me a N900 I can take a look inside.<< |
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| 12:25.31 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: will the RX-GTA05 base board be compatible straight up with N900 peripheral devices, or will I need to buy new ones? |
| 12:25.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 12:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | which peripheral devices? |
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| 12:30.50 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: LCD, camera, magnet sensor, keyboard, etc |
| 12:31.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 12:31.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book (main) camera and hw kbd are part of the mainboard |
| 12:31.33 | rikanee | from what I've been reading on the IRC, it's all-new electronics that happen to fit into the N900 shell |
| 12:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for now it's nothing but just an idea |
| 12:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | the current gta04 board has a option to connect hw kbd and camera |
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| 12:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the N900 replacement PCB I'd expect those components the be part of the basic kit |
| 12:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly kbd |
| 12:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | the magnet sensor (compass) I have no particular opinion |
| 12:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably a nice-to-have as integrated part of base PCB, since the manufacturing and BOM is just a few cents to max two or three EUR higher, while later addition is almost impossible |
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| 12:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | to make it utterly clear I'd expect such N904 to be able to run maemo5/fremantle with only minimal tweaks |
| 12:38.32 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: basically, have as many fun things as possible on-board, to extend the fun you'll have with the device. |
| 12:38.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:39.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | such a device would be ~600EUR min anyway, I guess. So not much sense in saving a 5 bucks for a nice feature like compass, eh? |
| 12:39.42 | rikanee | ++ |
| 12:40.13 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: compass, nice nav chips, Hirose connectors for all the radios, etc. |
| 12:40.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | (600) we might get it cheaper if actually >1000 users would preorder |
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| 12:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/48/ |
| 13:00.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the minimal-tweaks statement above, it remains to get evaluated how easily we can replace core closed blobs like the ISI libs for acces/interface to modem |
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| 13:02.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, while I seem to recall stskeeps made fremantle run on a beagleboard quite some years ago, a *comprehensive* port of maemo5/fremantle incl all "peripheral" functions like modem, BT, whatever is for sure a demanding project |
| 13:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | would create a whole new major community effort to make that fly |
| 13:06.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I probably wouldn't miss the Nokia dialer too much, if it turned out we need to drop it for some FOSS dialer |
| 13:08.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and until all that reaches production level stability, there's qtMoko, SHR, and other distros that should run on N904 much similar to the way they already do on GTA04 and even GTA02 |
| 13:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, sorry. But once in a while you may dream a bit, no? |
| 13:11.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | (and of course there are all the various mer versions that got adapted to N900, and some even to GTA02. And then, what about sailfish that's allegedly portable to new hw platforms in one nightshift) |
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| 13:36.53 | GeneralAntilles | MWKN parser ate a bunch of lines. :o |
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| 13:43.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 13:44.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | must've been hungry |
| 13:45.52 | Shapeshifter | is still wondering what to get when his second N900 dies (probably soon) |
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| 13:46.01 | Shapeshifter | Everything is shit these days :| |
| 13:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no replacement for N900, except a new N900 |
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| 13:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://negrielectronics.com/nokia-n900-media-tablet-unlocked-black-p-2709.html |
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| 13:54.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | (MWKN) >>Even her boots? \\ Would I lie to you? \\ Shit, you musta been hungry! \\ Yeah, this is true. |
| 13:55.44 | GeneralAntilles | Pinged Jaffa. Some sort of unicode whitespace character I picked up in the quote. |
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| 14:03.44 | BCMM | on my N900, i seem to have the majority of my icons missing, and some applications crashing on startup, following having to force it to restart |
| 14:05.07 | BCMM | i have " EXT3-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended EXT3-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended" in dmesg. how should i go about doing that? |
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| 14:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: iirc you're alarmed author? |
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| 14:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: head -n 1 /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/recaller.py|od -cx |
| 14:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry |
| 14:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind |
| 14:12.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | is afk |
| 14:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: seems that's a painfully common problem introduced by CSSU-T8 |
| 14:15.22 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is that the latest update? also, is the filesystem's state the cause of my problems? |
| 14:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably restoring pre-CSSU-T8 BM backup and then not updating to T8 is your best option |
| 14:16.03 | BCMM | i do not have such a backup. is there a quick fix? |
| 14:16.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | none I know of |
| 14:16.21 | BCMM | i've managed to mount /home read-only, is it safe to fsck it now? |
| 14:16.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, you can't fsck a mounted device afaik |
| 14:16.54 | BCMM | you can, it just tells you you shouldn't |
| 14:17.03 | freemangordon_ | BCMM: ~rescueos |
| 14:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | then yes, go ahead |
| 14:17.25 | jon_y | well, remount after checking, should flush some invalid cache |
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| 14:17.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | just better do a backup first, even now that it's corrupted you may want to have a backup of it, just in case fsck fails and ruins it even more |
| 14:17.55 | BCMM | jon_y: i can't unmount. |
| 14:18.06 | jon_y | BCMM: -o remount,ro |
| 14:18.14 | jon_y | after that, remount,rw |
| 14:18.21 | BCMM | yes, i have done that |
| 14:18.49 | BCMM | but wouldn't it be saner to reboot after fsck, rather than mount rw again? |
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| 14:19.04 | jon_y | sure, works too |
| 14:19.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you have BM? |
| 14:21.21 | freemangordon | BCMM: boot rescueOS, dd your /home to file on SD card and do fsck from there |
| 14:21.48 | freemangordon | (dd is just in case) |
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| 14:26.02 | BCMM | e2fsck segfaulted. |
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| 14:27.56 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is it yet known why this happens? |
| 14:28.20 | jon_y | oomkiller? |
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| 14:29.49 | BCMM | oomkiller surely sends KILL not SEGV? |
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| 14:30.34 | jon_y | maybe malloc gave null |
| 14:30.39 | jon_y | no idea |
| 14:30.53 | jon_y | use rescueOS and fsck from a PC? |
| 14:31.16 | BCMM | that is supposed to be impossible on linux, because of oomkiller |
| 14:31.17 | jon_y | or maybe dd and fsck the image |
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| 15:15.07 | divVerent | is there another player alternative than openmediaplayer? |
| 15:15.38 | divVerent | I have an UV swap issue with openmediaplayer... for at least some files, playback becomes UV swapped (red/blue swapped basically) after a few sec |
| 15:15.55 | divVerent | may I have triggered this with CSSU Transitions Tuner or Theme Customizer? |
| 15:16.06 | divVerent | PROBABLY not, as media playback is an overlay |
| 15:17.48 | divVerent | it only happens to some videos, maybe due to a recent ffmpeg/x264 update |
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| 15:53.15 | divVerent | FWIW the uv swap issue only happens with open-media-player |
| 15:57.43 | divVerent | it also does not happen in the very first openmediaplayer package, but that does not help me, as that one has no question dialog for opening whole folders |
| 15:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's extremely strange since afaik OMP also uses MAFW backend, as does stock player |
| 15:59.16 | divVerent | it probably is triggered by some draw operation on the GUI |
| 15:59.25 | divVerent | which the stock player does not do |
| 15:59.36 | divVerent | that may explain why it only happens after about 0.5 sec |
| 15:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 15:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's possible |
| 16:00.03 | divVerent | seeking also ALWAYS causes it |
| 16:00.14 | divVerent | even seeking to start before these 0.5 sec |
| 16:00.30 | divVerent | trying a reboot now |
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| 16:10.49 | divVerent | persists after reboot |
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| 16:34.22 | divVerent | I find no way to avoid the issue, even after downgrading both ffmpeg and x264 to an older tree |
| 16:34.59 | divVerent | this probably SHOULD be fixing it, so maybe I did not go old enough |
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| 16:45.59 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: maybe you know... as a workaround, can I somehow use mediaplayer for video and openmediaplayer for audio? |
| 16:46.29 | divVerent | until I know what is actually causing it |
| 16:46.44 | divVerent | will tomorrow try to encode a video with different ffmpeg versions and different x264 versions |
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| 19:25.28 | iDont | divVerent: hi, regarding the issue you posted last Saturday ("1. install bb-p, 2. install swapon, 3. remove swapon. Where does /sbin/swapon point to?"): busybox-power does not serve any purpose in that equation as it does not touch /sbin/swapon at all. Postinst detects that /sbin/swapon already exists and will leave it alone. So you'll break your setup whether you're using bb-p or not :). |
| 19:25.52 | iDont | The same goes for all other utils that Maemo depends on during boot, as all of those will already exist during installation of busybox-power. |
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| 21:05.22 | xes | rtcom-messaging-ui scoll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68579 It seems that my device suffers the same disease... Anyone discovered what is causing this behavior? |
| 21:06.27 | freemangordon | xes: did you install some modifications to .css or .js files? |
| 21:06.33 | freemangordon | did you make some changes? |
| 21:06.44 | freemangordon | (like portrait support or whatever? |
| 21:06.47 | freemangordon | ) |
| 21:07.05 | xes | the only mod is portrait support |
| 21:08.02 | xes | .. already tried to remove that but the behavior remains unchanged |
| 21:08.15 | freemangordon | xes: latest CSSU brings its own portrait support, I guess there is a conflict between those two |
| 21:08.33 | freemangordon | try to apt-get install --reinstall rtcom-messaging-ui |
| 21:09.03 | xes | already done, but le me try one more time |
| 21:09.34 | freemangordon | xes: check for some dpkg magic (.dist-new or whatever) |
| 21:09.58 | freemangordon | xes: make sure you have the stock files installed |
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| 21:11.05 | xes | yep. the strange part is that i was expecting to still have the mouse cursor enable/disable with the swipe from left.. but nothing |
| 21:11.48 | freemangordon | xes: wait, what? |
| 21:12.01 | freemangordon | in messaging ui?!? |
| 21:12.49 | xes | am i wrong? to select text... |
| 21:13.44 | freemangordon | xes: NFC, I've never know that's possible |
| 21:17.03 | freemangordon | xes: find the source of your modifications and check what gets modified, that way you'll have a clue what to restore |
| 21:17.13 | freemangordon | xes: sorry, can't help further now |
| 21:18.53 | xes | freemangordon: http://www.google.it/imgres?um=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:it-IT:unofficial&hl=it&biw=1601&bih=876&tbm=isch&tbnid=xnrH6E1hA2FOkM:&imgrefurl=http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php%3Ft%3D37865&docid=gL0Bgv4f-ESGZM&itg=1&imgurl=http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4345/smsselect.png&w=800&h=480&ei=Dn2_UZK-D8XEPJH4gMgH&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:83&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=174&tbnw=290&start=0&ndsp=1&tx=178&ty=81 |
| 21:19.27 | xes | sorry for the lonk link, direct reference to image seems vanished |
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| 21:28.08 | HtheB | anyone alive here? |
| 21:28.33 | ecc3g | nope, all zombies here. |
| 21:28.44 | HtheB | great! just what I was looking for! |
| 21:28.54 | ecc3g | braaiinnz.... |
| 21:29.15 | HtheB | i need some help with compiling something for maemo/harmattan |
| 21:29.41 | peetah | ~ |
| 21:29.45 | HtheB | i dont know if something is wrong with my setup or the sources |
| 21:29.54 | HtheB | i want to compile sowatch |
| 21:30.00 | HtheB | https://gitorious.org/sowatch |
| 21:30.20 | HtheB | It's really strange. It says libsowatch is missing. But this file is created by itself |
| 21:30.37 | HtheB | i dont know if anybody else can compile it for me though |
| 21:32.42 | xes | freemangordon: tried again the rtcomm-ui-messaging reinstall. Nothing. Removed the css and js files restoring manually the original but still nothing. I don't think it's related to these files.. :( |
| 21:32.48 | HtheB | :( |
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| 22:07.55 | BCMM | i've re-flashed my n900 following filesystem corruption and it doesn't seem to be booting at all |
| 22:08.22 | BCMM | just the five-dots progress animation forever |
| 22:08.29 | BCMM | what should i do? |
| 22:11.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | full reflash |
| 22:14.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | T8 the mega disaster |
| 22:16.35 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: what on earth happened? |
| 22:17.37 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: by full reflash, do you mean MyDocs too? |
| 22:20.15 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: if so, i have a bit of a problem |
| 22:20.34 | BCMM | i didn't backup MyDocs before reflashing because i didn't think i'd be reflashing MyDocs |
| 22:20.50 | BCMM | is there any way i can get MyDocs mounted over USB from this state? |
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| 22:29.00 | danko | :-D |
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| 22:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: rescueOS |
| 22:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or BM |
| 22:57.36 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i don't know what either of those are - can i use them now, or are those things i should have set up before it got broken? |
| 22:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: what happened? it seems a patch to initscripts caused fsck to destroy /home during boot |
| 22:58.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 22:58.33 | infobot | it has been said that backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 |
| 22:58.35 | BCMM | ah |
| 22:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to install |
| 22:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos |
| 22:58.46 | infobot | well, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ |
| 22:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can use any time, given you have a working USB |
| 23:00.29 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: ah, rescueOS is basically a minimal initramfs for rescue purposes, that i can load with the flasher? |
| 23:00.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | kudos to nin101 |
| 23:01.06 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: thanks! when you said "full reflash", do you mean that i need to clear MyDocs too? |
| 23:01.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically only /home, but there's no VANILLA that would leave MyDocs untouched |
| 23:02.59 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: ok. i'll use rescueOS to save stuff my stuff from MyDocs, then do a full reflash with a VANILLA image |
| 23:03.08 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is CSSU fixed yet or should i avoid installing that for a bit? |
| 23:03.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for the inconvenience |
| 23:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | *allegedly* T8.2 is fixed |
| 23:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I can't say _anything_ for sure |
| 23:03.55 | BCMM | i think i might install stable. i guess i'm only not on stable because it didn't exist when i installed CSSU |
| 23:04.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 23:04.27 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the assistnace |
| 23:04.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 23:06.15 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: btw is it possible to "downgrade" CSSU to CSSU stable? my GFs phone is on CSSU but hasn't blown up yet |
| 23:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, basically not |
| 23:07.39 | ds3 | anyone remember off hand how much does the battery needs to drain to get a reset/recal so bnf can produce useable info? |
| 23:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | even id cssu-t maybe offers an "uninstall" feature, I strongly suggest to not use it. It's been reported to completely mess up your system to the point where only full reflash will help |
| 23:09.28 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: whats the sanest way to downgrade? use the backup utility to save a list of installed programs and whatnot? |
| 23:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: anyway for downgrading to cssu-s you probably don't need to reflash VANILLA, so the process should be painless. Just do a proper BM backup *and* a osso-backup (standard app for backup), flash rootfs aka COMBINED, then install cssu-s and restore form osso-backup all your apps |
| 23:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly :-) |
| 23:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | *should* work painlessly for all I can tell |
| 23:10.48 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i didn't understand all of that, but i think when i read these logs in the morning, i will :) |
| 23:11.29 | BCMM | just wanted to know the phone's not totally screwed before i go to bed :) |
| 23:12.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the phone is basically fine, just your /home partition is messed up (corripted fs) |
| 23:12.23 | BCMM | yeah, i mean the contents (that i should have backed up) |
| 23:13.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I can't give any guaranty, I'd bet that MyDocs is OK |
| 23:13.30 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i really can't see why it wouldn't be |
| 23:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just mounted to /home and thus you have problems to access it now |
| 23:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/to/in/ |
| 23:14.24 | BCMM | oh, i see |
| 23:14.55 | BCMM | hmm |
| 23:14.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since /opt is also a link to /home/opt, your system acts "funny2 now |
| 23:15.43 | BCMM | home is pretty much totally nuked after i tried to fsck it. does the nokia backup program do arbitrary dotfiles or just stuff on some list somewhere? |
| 23:16.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nokia osso-backup only does "a list" |
| 23:18.30 | HtheB | doc, can you compile for harmattan at the moment? |
| 23:18.33 | HtheB | apps* |
| 23:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | programs can add themselves resp their data files to that "list" |
| 23:18.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: no |
| 23:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never could |
| 23:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 23:21.13 | HtheB | i cant find anybody that can compile something for me |
| 23:21.22 | HtheB | guys at #harmattan are dead i guess |
| 23:23.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask GeneralAntilles, iirc he been evry active with sowatch |
| 23:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | very* |
| 23:23.57 | GeneralAntilles | Nope, not useful for compiling things. |
| 23:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
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| 23:33.36 | Bambi_BOFH | DocScrutinizer05: thanks, will check it out |
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