| 00:00.06 | GI_Jack | anyway, there was a freerunner GTA04 port to the n900 case, I'd so get one |
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| 00:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | GI_Jack: well, I think you best tell that Nikolaus, to convince him that this project could be worth the effort to re-layout the PCB and do a few minor changes to the circuit, for N900 LCD |
| 00:26.55 | GI_Jack | DocScrutinizer05, tell him than n900 parts are cheap on ebay, thats what |
| 00:27.01 | GI_Jack | $17 for a case |
| 00:27.24 | GI_Jack | if only I could figure out how to paint over a keyboard and do cut outs in the pain to get the back light to work |
| 00:28.10 | GI_Jack | supposedly there is a place in NJ that will throw any paint you want in a rattle can for $20 |
| 00:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | he knows about those facts, what he doesn't know is how many users would actually pay a rather high price (around original introduction price of N900) for such a device |
| 00:29.04 | GI_Jack | DocScrutinizer05, if we get some good homebrew cases made, it'd be worth it |
| 00:29.34 | GI_Jack | and imagine, n900s with automotive grade paint |
| 00:29.53 | GI_Jack | like GM sky blue with a white pin stripe ala 69 camaro |
| 00:30.03 | GI_Jack | or corvette red |
| 00:31.18 | GI_Jack | my new n900 body has primer on it already |
| 00:33.56 | GI_Jack | DocScrutinizer05, as for actually buy one? I am holding off for jolla mobile |
| 00:34.16 | GI_Jack | at the same time, as much as I'd wish they ship, the GTA04 is real |
| 00:35.03 | GI_Jack | or they'd fuck up this "other half" concept so its not worth anymore than funny colored cases |
| 00:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is about as much as they promised so far |
| 00:38.05 | SpeedEvil | Even 'just' USB and bidirectional power would be enough. |
| 00:38.19 | GI_Jack | yes |
| 00:38.24 | SpeedEvil | But from what's been revealed, it could be only plastic clips and NFC |
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| 00:38.32 | GI_Jack | hardware physical connection keyboard |
| 00:38.37 | SpeedEvil | Which would be substantially less than ideal. |
| 00:39.19 | SpeedEvil | Not useless. |
| 00:39.23 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 00:41.17 | GI_Jack | or the device doesn't ship |
| 00:41.19 | GI_Jack | ug |
| 00:41.54 | GI_Jack | what is this Nikolaus's email anywho |
| 00:42.17 | GI_Jack | how much effort is it really going to take to port the GTA04 to the n900 case |
| 00:42.22 | GI_Jack | and we get a sliding keyboard |
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| 06:03.18 | GI_Jack | what am I going to do about this GSM modem shield |
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| 08:40.42 | WizardNumberNext | hello guys |
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| 08:43.29 | WizardNumberNext | I tried (twice) lastest update for cssu-testing. N900 works fine for few to seweral hours, then phone app stops to work. After switching it off it never boots again - it neven actually hits those flashing dots at booting - only nokia logo for longer, then usual time and dies death after minute or so - every time. Any suggestions? |
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| 08:54.51 | SpeedEvil | is battery level normal? |
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| 09:12.44 | _rd | What is the difference between |
| 09:12.46 | _rd | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free |
| 09:12.48 | _rd | and |
| 09:12.53 | _rd | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle free non-free |
| 09:12.56 | _rd | ? |
| 09:18.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | should be none |
| 09:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | until we roll out PR1.4 ;-P |
| 09:22.33 | _rd | Hmm....but there are different files in there, e.g. check |
| 09:23.29 | _rd | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle-1.3/free/binary-armel/ and http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/ |
| 09:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there are different files, then we have a problem that needs fixing |
| 09:23.51 | _rd | fremantle seems to have newer stuff than fremantle-1.3 |
| 09:23.59 | _rd | (check file size and date) |
| 09:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then we have a good way to deduce when it got broken |
| 09:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | you just experience live the daily nightmare that is maemo administration |
| 09:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey could you do me a favor and send a rant to support@nemein.com? |
| 09:29.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | CC techstaff@maemo.org |
| 09:32.15 | _rd | Sure, will do. |
| 09:35.27 | _rd | done |
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| 09:38.46 | _rd | I get GPG warning from the nokia server, when I run apt-get update |
| 09:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks (not that I hope for much) |
| 09:38.47 | _rd | W: GPG error: https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release: The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 |
| 09:38.56 | _rd | is that expected? |
| 09:39.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you already have a clue when they started to differ? |
| 09:39.20 | _rd | I hope that I get a reply at least ;-) |
| 09:39.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's another known fuckup, this time courtesy Nokia |
| 09:39.58 | _rd | what do you mean with "when *they* start to differ?" |
| 09:40.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle and fremantle1-3 |
| 09:40.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | or let me put it this way: what are the latest dates in fremantle |
| 09:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | err. fremantle-1.3 |
| 09:41.27 | _rd | fremantle is June-12, fremantle-1.3 is Dec-16 |
| 09:41.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, thought as much |
| 09:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's just before Nemein started migration#1 |
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| 09:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | re "W: GPG error:" W: should mean "Warning!" |
| 09:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | it _should_ not cause much trouble |
| 09:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually |
| 09:43.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it does, you can try setting your local (N900) date to 2011 |
| 09:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | or 2012 |
| 09:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | (reply) you already get reply from techstaff ;-) |
| 09:44.51 | _rd | no it does not cause trouble, I just saw it. |
| 09:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't hope for reply from nemein though |
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| 16:34.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | treats channel to a free ABSOLUT vodka, for 4444 thanks on tmo |
| 16:35.46 | Raimu | :D |
| 16:35.49 | Raimu | Congrats. |
| 16:35.54 | Raimu | Now where's my Drink? |
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| 16:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | hands schnaps to Raimu |
| 16:54.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is wrong with DocScrutinizer51? |
| 16:56.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, hetzner network issue |
| 16:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardly ever seen that |
| 16:57.00 | Raimu | \o/ |
| 16:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat |
| 16:59.10 | infobot | well, bupbat is http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months |
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| 17:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat is also http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153 |
| 17:02.39 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 17:07.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat is also https://hbe-shop.de/KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN |
| 17:07.34 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 17:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat |
| 17:08.05 | infobot | it has been said that bupbat is http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN |
| 17:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, bupbat is use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN |
| 17:09.59 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
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| 17:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like spending some 20..30bucks for getting a dozen bupbat, so they can get sent out to Europe for recipients donating 3 bucks to maemo in return |
| 17:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | farnell not selling to consumers at all, HBE asking for 10 bucks shipping and package, no matter if you order one or 20 of those 1.50EUR critters |
| 17:17.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon_ once offered to get some of them with his company's next huge order at digikey or farnell, but I bet he forgot about it |
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| 17:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, I probably even could offer rework service |
| 17:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but nah, that's just too much hassle |
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| 17:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | done :-) |
| 17:30.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you are in need of a replacement bupbat and live in Europe, contact me! |
| 17:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and now, time for a nice cool beer in a nice comfortable beergarden |
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| 19:23.06 | webdocsr | web frontend, ohmy |
| 19:23.33 | webdocsr | o/ |
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| 19:46.31 | lansiir | Is the n900 supposed to reboot automatically? |
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| 19:47.04 | SpeedEvil | Not generally |
| 19:52.01 | lansiir | SpeedEvil: It keeps rebooting when I do an upgrade in the debian chroot, or when cp hangs on the mydocs filesystem :/ |
| 19:52.26 | lansiir | This breaks the filesystem, and I'd like to know why before I reformat it (so it doesn't happen again) |
| 19:52.28 | lansiir | Any ideas? |
| 19:56.06 | SpeedEvil | I would run badblocks while watching dmesg |
| 19:57.29 | lansiir | badblocks? |
| 19:57.48 | lansiir | Root command, I presume? Or is it an application to be installed? |
| 19:59.02 | SpeedEvil | It's a console application, that is designed to read (or write) a block device to see if it has issues |
| 19:59.08 | SpeedEvil | afk |
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| 20:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | swaphell |
| 20:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: I guess you tried copying huge amounts of data when reboot happens |
| 20:18.30 | lansiir | It was the debian image (as the debian image was currupted by the crash during apt-get upgrade). |
| 20:18.35 | lansiir | So 3.4GB IIRC. |
| 20:19.54 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: ^ |
| 20:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 20:23.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: known issue, watchdog kicks in when IO hogs CPU. You can cure that by tweaking some parameters regarding IO-handling, like number of queue entries, and swappiness and whatnot |
| 20:23.24 | lansiir | Figured as such, my android phones did that. |
| 20:23.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | googling for swappolube might bring up some helpful links |
| 20:24.00 | lansiir | Then I'll just be sure not to do that then :P |
| 20:24.17 | lansiir | Any way to disable that entirely on a temporary basis (for copying images, etc.) |
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| 20:28.16 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: ^ |
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| 20:44.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: known issue, watchdog kicks in when IO hogs CPU. You can cure that by tweaking some parameters regarding IO-handling, like number of queue entries, and swappiness and whatnot |
| 20:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you hardly can disable a bug |
| 20:45.40 | lansiir | I hail from mac-land: "It's not a bug, it's a feature" |
| 20:46.07 | lansiir | But thanks, I'll research that and take a look. |
| 20:46.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | just a minute... |
| 20:46.53 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Can I just umount and reformat the mydocs repartition to cure my corrupted partition woes, or is there something more complex? |
| 20:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | MyDocs is easily umount'able and you can mkfs.vfat any type when umounted |
| 20:50.41 | lansiir | Great :D |
| 20:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness |
| 20:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo 5 > /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster |
| 20:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo 500 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_expire_centisecs |
| 20:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo 4 >/sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests || echo "ohnoes, hope it boots1" |
| 20:50.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | echo 4 >/sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests || echo "ohnoes, hope it boots2" |
| 20:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | is close to end of my /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 20:52.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be better values, other parameters, and better ways to mess around with them, but generally that's whete you start |
| 20:53.00 | kerio | ShadowJK claims nr_requests is best set high |
| 20:53.27 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Looks standard (except for those nr requests). |
| 20:53.44 | lansiir | has it saved for future reference. |
| 20:54.04 | lansiir | Since I'm reformatting MyDocs, should I be reformatting as ext2? |
| 20:54.09 | kerio | no you shouldn't |
| 20:54.24 | kerio | maemo will shit its pants if the first partition on the emmc isn't vfat |
| 20:55.04 | lansiir | Right, so, vfat is is. |
| 20:55.31 | kerio | i don't think there's specific options you must set when doing mkfs |
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| 21:14.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, setting the nr_requests high creates a long queue with buffers pending to write out, all those buffers are allocated from RAM. But eventually they need to get written to MMC and then IO is busy for a looong time |
| 21:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | setting queue short creates lots of writes to eMMC for a small chunk of real new data each time, but the short queue doesn't hog RAM and when the queue got emptied, user space has another opportunity to swap in some program text and actually execute some code |
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| 21:18.43 | Raimu | Nice sky tonight - picture courtesy of n900 http://i.imgur.com/IdLrFbJ.jpg |
| 21:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | go figure how cp fills the queue with zillions of buffers it previously malloc()ed, and while queue grows, the swapd frees up more and more RAM by swapping out program text to MMC instead of writing buffers from queue to MMC |
| 21:20.24 | nox- | heh linux and its crazy buffering... reminds me how copying stuff to say an usb key finishes much later than the actual cp command as well |
| 21:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually s/program text/program data sections/ |
| 21:21.38 | lansiir | nox-: cp && sync |
| 21:21.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | program text just gets free'd from RAM and needs to get read in from the executable file on MMC later on when it is needed again |
| 21:21.48 | nox- | lansiir, sure |
| 21:22.40 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Well, I'll give low buffer counts a shot - what are the bricking odds when screwing around with swappolube? |
| 21:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | reducing swappiness may result in program text getting free()d later or not at all, so programs don't block kernel that much via swapd loading same program text again. echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness might be a pretty poor idea after all |
| 21:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | swappolube does exactly the same, it readjusts swappiness and other related settings |
| 21:25.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't heard of swappolube bricking a device, it just migght make stuff slower instead faster |
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| 21:25.32 | lansiir | Good enough for me >:D |
| 21:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I also have installed and activated swappolube, the above quoted settings might well not nbe in effect since ages on my device |
| 21:26.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 21:26.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/home/user# cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness |
| 21:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 100 |
| 21:27.01 | lansiir | That's default IIRC |
| 21:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:27.18 | lansiir | cat /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests |
| 21:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and also the nr_requests is 4 |
| 21:27.52 | lansiir | Default is 128 there. |
| 21:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might have to check what's with swappolube |
| 21:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I hardly ever see those nasty freezes |
| 21:29.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I think I copied a few GB from eMMC to uSD a year or so ago, and it took ages but eventually finished, without freezing or rebooting my device |
| 21:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, 128. ShadowJK suggests 2048 or even 4096 iirc |
| 21:30.25 | lansiir | Also, since some knowledgable people are around, I have some questions about "sleeping". |
| 21:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | this might be ultra-fast and nice for files up to ~100MB or so |
| 21:30.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | then BOOOM |
| 21:31.00 | lansiir | Coming from an android phone - does the n900 slow down and pause everything when the screen goes off? |
| 21:31.08 | lansiir | (or similar) |
| 21:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
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| 21:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely nothing like that |
| 21:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | all apps are supposed to be 'clean' in the sense that they don't do busy loops |
| 21:32.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | or use usleep in a loop just to poll shit |
| 21:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | normat state of maemo is: all processes wait on IO or a long term timer event |
| 21:33.43 | lansiir | So if I won't have to keep the screen on when I'm doing stuff? (finally) |
| 21:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there's any process not waiting wor IO or a timer that is at least 1s (rather 10 or 60s), then that app is considered broken and shall get nuked from repositories |
| 21:34.35 | lansiir | heh |
| 21:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: no, for example xchat is running on my N900 24/7 and never missing any highlight to my nick |
| 21:35.38 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: We have n900 xchat? |
| 21:36.04 | lansiir | needs to look through the repos some more |
| 21:36.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | apps shall stop refreshing their display as soon as it's not visible either for not having focus or screen completely blanked |
| 21:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | this isn't particularly new for any X11 app |
| 21:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | just on maemo it's absolutely mandatory |
| 21:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | on android the OS / the kernel enforces non-rogue behaviour even of crappy processes. On maemo the processes themselves are supposed to behave |
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| 21:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the rest is unix-kernel scheduler's standard job which it is pretty good in |
| 21:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | even the kernel is no_ticks |
| 21:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | or NO_HZ or whatever the name |
| 21:42.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's but it this way: when you look at a maemo system's screen, the CPU wakes up once per minute to update the clock display. When you lock the screen then even the clock sleeps |
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| 21:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you unlock, the clock gets an X-event to redraw the display and on that event the clock re-schedules the timer on every full minute, to keep the display updated |
| 21:43.45 | lansiir | ...that's epic. |
| 21:43.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's put... |
| 21:44.04 | lansiir | If I could just get google voice working, I'd never look back XD |
| 21:45.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I never looked into it, but aiui google voice is a glorified SIP-VoIP |
| 21:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather use true SIP |
| 21:46.08 | lansiir | It's a lot of things, but I use it as a phone call forwarder. |
| 21:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | fwd.com, or sipgate.de, or whatever meets your taste |
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| 21:47.06 | lansiir | The n900 wasn't what I was thinking about when I signed up :P |
| 21:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems SIP doesn't work that great, audio-quality wise, for some N900 users. For me it works like a charm |
| 21:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | even via 3G |
| 21:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: I'm sorry to hear that |
| 21:48.21 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: No data plan. |
| 21:48.25 | lansiir | <= le cheapass |
| 21:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | my dataplan is prepaid 10 bucks / month, for 500MB (more than enough usually), and when getting a 30.-- charge I get a 20.-- on top worth in free minutes and text, which usually suffices for the 3 months till next 30.-- charge |
| 21:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | (we got no inbound minutes fees here) |
| 21:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got this "plan" and this SIM since ~2000 (last 13 years) now |
| 21:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course 10 years ago data been more expensive if available at all on prepaid |
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| 21:57.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | but those subsidized contracts with "free" phone on top and supercheap minutes that turn out to be the most expensive option available after 6 months when everybody else reduces tariffs, that never appealed to me |
| 21:57.49 | lansiir | I have $0.06/mb, or $25/mo for 250Mb "unlimited" |
| 21:58.04 | kerio | holy shit |
| 21:58.11 | kerio | i pay 5€/mo for 100mb/day |
| 21:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 21:58.46 | lansiir | As you can tell, I did not choose it for the data rates - $0.02/min with no expiration for voice. |
| 21:59.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, "$" makes me think "no surprise, third world of mobile communication" |
| 21:59.15 | lansiir | You are correct. |
| 21:59.22 | entitled | got a prepaid, limitless, about 10$/month but capped at 384kbps |
| 21:59.44 | lansiir | 384kbps? |
| 21:59.52 | entitled | if you pay bit more, you can max out your 3g, and almost 4g |
| 22:00.02 | lansiir | I was at 150 until just last year ._. |
| 22:00.50 | entitled | non-prepaid data plans are bit better, but I prefer prepaid with no contract |
| 22:01.09 | lansiir | non-prepaid is about $45/mo here. |
| 22:01.20 | lansiir | Where do you people live? |
| 22:01.26 | entitled | finland here |
| 22:01.40 | entitled | data is cheap here, but nothing else is |
| 22:01.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's called the old Europe |
| 22:02.11 | entitled | USA has always been bit anal with their wire/wireless internet plans |
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| 22:02.17 | lansiir | :/ |
| 22:02.21 | lansiir | is stuck heree |
| 22:02.22 | entitled | from what I've observed |
| 22:02.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | we even have a 6 months dealer warranty here, by law |
| 22:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 22:02.39 | lansiir | Any chance you can mail me a sim card that would work here? |
| 22:02.47 | kerio | in addition to the 2 years manufacturer warranty? |
| 22:04.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually all is dealer warranty, just the dealer bitches at manufacturer, and the 24 months are with you proving that the bug been since manufacturing the good |
| 22:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | first six months it's assumed it's been by manufacturer and you don't need toprove anything |
| 22:05.00 | lansiir | No? Nobody's willing to mail me a international sim? D: |
| 22:05.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | after 6 months the duty of proof goes from manuf to customer |
| 22:05.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: alas the european SIMs all are pretty pathetic when it comes to international roaming |
| 22:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell they are even mere robbery when roaming intra-EU |
| 22:07.03 | lansiir | darn :/ |
| 22:07.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I travel from Germany to e.g. italy then suddenly I *do* have to pay for inbound minutes. And data is like cents/byte |
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| 22:07.37 | lansiir | But this is good news - I am going to travel next year. |
| 22:07.46 | lansiir | will be sure to pick up an international sim |
| 22:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | in fact US-SIMs are way better when it comes to international roaming |
| 22:08.23 | lansiir | orly? |
| 22:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard some of your plans are cheaper abroad that in USA |
| 22:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | than* |
| 22:09.26 | lansiir | Lies? |
| 22:09.43 | lansiir | It's pretty hard to leave the country, so it doesn't surprise me. |
| 22:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course there are providers like suraja, who seem to have roaming contracts with 99% of carriers worldwide. And when you're at the dead end of sahara, you use their sat |
| 22:11.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | calls worldwide for as little as .49$/min |
| 22:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think they even offer 14kBd data, for checking your email etc |
| 22:12.28 | Win7Mac | points to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1352563#post1352563 |
| 22:12.47 | nox- | spelled Thuraya i suppose? |
| 22:13.56 | lansiir | satellite? Wikipedia didn't mention satradio protocols on the n900 >_> |
| 22:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: yep |
| 22:15.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's N945I then, to get rolled out 2015 ;-) |
| 22:15.52 | lansiir | So, what's up with nokia these days? |
| 22:16.03 | nox- | winphones :( |
| 22:16.14 | lansiir | This is actually a pretty good phone, but the failphones are bad. |
| 22:16.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or let's wait and see what becomes of the proposed N900i-Phoenux-gta04 project |
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| 22:16.46 | lansiir | Are you still buying them, or are we waiting for a n1000 kickstarter, or what :P |
| 22:17.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody else can buy N900, since I BUY THEM ALL ;-P |
| 22:17.48 | nox- | more than a few not enough? |
| 22:17.51 | nox- | :P |
| 22:17.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I actually throttled down a bit when I had my fifth) |
| 22:18.00 | nox- | haha |
| 22:18.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's a point where you should stop, and you clearly passed it |
| 22:18.29 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Are you kidding me? D: |
| 22:18.42 | kerio | lansiir: because they're not enough? |
| 22:19.45 | entitled | wtf |
| 22:19.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://negrielectronics.com/nokia-n900-media-tablet-unlocked-black-p-2709.html |
| 22:20.15 | entitled | my n900 just started making random noise |
| 22:20.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 22:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot it |
| 22:20.30 | lansiir | entitled: Time to go find your bible. |
| 22:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | this also happened to me *once* |
| 22:20.42 | entitled | yeah! |
| 22:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | started clicking from speakers - lart PA |
| 22:21.12 | entitled | kind of like the interface sound, when you press the display, but repeated very very fast |
| 22:21.23 | entitled | clicking yes |
| 22:21.25 | lansiir | entitled: DocScrutinizer05 will buy it from you :P |
| 22:21.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: will the N904 run a free-ish modem? |
| 22:21.38 | rikanee | It's the noise from the ghost of OSSO. Beware. |
| 22:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sure, check out gta04.org |
| 22:22.02 | Win7Mac | GeneralAntilles, shall I put my answers to your "Qs for HiFo candidates" thread? |
| 22:22.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: also, we're going to call it N904, right? |
| 22:22.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | more free'ish than BB5 anyway |
| 22:22.26 | entitled | I'll eBay this and charge 10 000$, "warning: haunted!" |
| 22:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | N904 sounds good |
| 22:22.55 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | entitled: you mixed that up with N950, which is ~2000 bucks |
| 22:23.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yet I won't sell mine soonish |
| 22:24.11 | rikanee | kerio: "RX-52 board?" |
| 22:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 22:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | GTA04-54 board |
| 22:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably the domesheet will be one of the most difficult to source parts |
| 22:25.53 | GeneralAntilles | Win7Mac, going to start a new thread with the finalized answers. |
| 22:26.03 | Win7Mac | why? |
| 22:26.15 | Win7Mac | already there... |
| 22:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | moos at GeneralAntilles |
| 22:26.20 | GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh |
| 22:26.34 | GeneralAntilles | Win7Mac, because that thread was for discussing the questions to be asked. |
| 22:26.56 | Win7Mac | and now now the main part... |
| 22:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | rabulism? |
| 22:27.28 | Win7Mac | ...probably introduce new "phase" of thread |
| 22:29.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the finalized answers belong on wiki, while the thread on forum is for *dialog* |
| 22:30.22 | Win7Mac | well, both, to reach people |
| 22:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | which reminds me I been to lazy to point out there that it's council's job to represent community on official events, not HiFo BoD |
| 22:30.46 | GeneralAntilles | Finalized /questions/ are going in a new thread. |
| 22:31.33 | Win7Mac | Korintenkacker! |
| 22:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh, new thread are fresh threads are good threads |
| 22:32.06 | Win7Mac | *Korinthen~ even |
| 22:32.25 | Win7Mac | i don't mind |
| 22:33.07 | Win7Mac | at least point from old thread |
| 22:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: start a new thread, then wait for chem|st or thedead1440 to join it with old one ;-) |
| 22:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I'm eagerly waiting for next MWKN :-D |
| 22:34.35 | GeneralAntilles | It'll be a largely boring issue. |
| 22:34.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think there's a number of good stories for that one |
| 22:34.43 | Win7Mac | yeah, it's monday here already... |
| 22:34.54 | GeneralAntilles | Don't have the energy for a great deal of editorializing tonight. |
| 22:35.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | largely boring unification of councils, extremely boring fact that we have 6 candidates for BoD election, and the negligance that BoD has a meeting on thursday |
| 22:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, some fool suggested to get a new life to N900 case and screen by reshaping GTA04 circuit board |
| 22:36.45 | Win7Mac | ...and the last thing being crucial to elections |
| 22:37.05 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, is there anything I can actually /link/ to for the BoD meeting announcement? |
| 22:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | harr, good question |
| 22:37.41 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, the GTA04 thing I missed. Link for that? |
| 22:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | chanlog of last meeting maybe, where woody confirmed it? |
| 22:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | community ML |
| 22:38.02 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, I missed that meeting, too. |
| 22:38.03 | GeneralAntilles | bleck |
| 22:38.08 | GeneralAntilles | expands his todo |
| 22:38.36 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Seems to be working - it hasn't crashed yet :P |
| 22:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, this time we had a party, not a meeting ;-P |
| 22:38.54 | lansiir | Though - at 180Kb/s, it would have been faster to download the image again :/ |
| 22:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: what you're doing? |
| 22:40.14 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Moving a (non broken) debian image from my sd card to mydocs |
| 22:40.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 22:40.47 | lansiir | I have 2Mb/s here, so I should have just downloaded it again :/ |
| 22:40.54 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru) |
| 22:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, toldya it will get damn slow since it needs a flsh erase page rewrite for every 4 IO requests |
| 22:41.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | erase page rewrite can take up to 100ms or sth |
| 22:42.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so depending on the block size of your queued IO requests, that determines your bandwidth you see |
| 22:42.33 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 22:43.23 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: I take it that it wouldn't be much faster if I was to download it then? :/ |
| 22:43.28 | *** join/#maemo jabis (~jabis@vps001.pumppumedia.com) |
| 22:43.38 | GeneralAntilles | Where can the board meeting be attended? |
| 22:43.43 | GeneralAntilles | I assume it's another Concerto thing. |
| 22:44.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you use dd bs=50M to copy stuff from eMMC to uSD, then even 4 requests in IO queue will fsck your RAM usage and swapping to death |
| 22:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | most likely |
| 22:45.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rob supposed to announce it on hifo.com |
| 22:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://hildonfoundation.org/news/ zilch new news |
| 22:45.57 | GeneralAntilles | whistles quietly. |
| 22:46.04 | lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: I just use cp. dd would probably be better then - what bs is the most appropiate, do you think? |
| 22:46.06 | GeneralAntilles | makes excuses about not being kept in the look. |
| 22:46.16 | GeneralAntilles | s/look/loop/ |
| 22:47.55 | Win7Mac | you will be soon |
| 22:49.07 | GeneralAntilles | Don't remind me. :o |
| 22:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: you could try dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/user/MyDocs/erase-me bs=2M count=50, and play a bit with bs and count to keep the bs*count size, I'd guess 2MB blocksize should yield best results |
| 22:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 4MB |
| 22:49.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | (with nr_requests=4) |
| 22:49.50 | *** join/#maemo Mek (~quassel@kde/mkruisselbrink) |
| 22:50.10 | lansiir | nr_requests is the amount of queued requests, right? |
| 22:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:50.58 | lansiir | What is this about fscking the RAM usage? |
| 22:51.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 4 requests * 2MB/request = 8MB ram buffer usage |
| 22:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | which means that 8MB of program RAM get swapped out to make space for the IO buffers |
| 22:52.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | while the system will probably work just fine with 8MB buffers, it would fail epically with 128 * 512kB |
| 22:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for nr_requests=128 |
| 22:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's all a bit of gambling since those dials are basically not the correct ones to tweak |
| 22:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you have a damn stupid program that writes each singe byte with its own IO request, then you probably are really better off with nr_requests =8192 |
| 22:57.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless those 8192 IO requests try to write to virtually every single erase page on MMC, since then flushing the queue would mean you have to rewrite *all* erase pages |
| 22:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if otoh they are all to same file, then odds are you get all 8192 requests/buffers flsuhed by a single erase page rewrite, that's finished in 0.1s |
| 23:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the RAM usage for 8192 1 byte IO requests = 8192 * (1 byte + overhead for queue and system-call), so maybe 800k to 1 or 2 MB at max |
| 23:01.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are other nice parameters to tweak, like milliseconds-till-flush-dirty or whatever it's called. Maybe those are worth tweaking as well, and you could go higher with nr_requests |
| 23:02.15 | GeneralAntilles | Did minutes from the meeting Friday-before-last get posted? |
| 23:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, no clue |
| 23:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask chem|st |
| 23:02.42 | Win7Mac | no |
| 23:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you see I start getting kinda sloppy with council even |
| 23:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | got a lot of other stuff on my plate |
| 23:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and still hanging out here |
| 23:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 23:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just feel like I achieved a good chunk of work got done during last 6 months, and I have to throttle everything a bit or you have to miss me completely soon |
| 23:06.03 | GeneralAntilles | Like the eye of god imploding in upon itself to infinite. |
| 23:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe I missed a major class in my college degree, maybe english literature or theology? I can't really parse that |
| 23:08.31 | GeneralAntilles | It's a near-quote from a Squidbillies episode. |
| 23:09.01 | GeneralAntilles | When the sheriff gets his hair shampooed at the local salon with meth-doped shampoo. |
| 23:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I start to get the ... mood it transports. and I think it fits |
| 23:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | like a dragster rubber-burning for weeks, instead of finally reaching the finish line |
| 23:15.24 | GeneralAntilles | One last story. |
| 23:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | while on maemo.org bug fixing and maintenance battlefront everything turned into stalingrad |
| 23:15.43 | Win7Mac | DocS, what's your finish line? |
| 23:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the point where maemo.org runs like it did 2 years ago, and there are alert maintainers for every imaginable hickup, so I could have 6 weeks of holiday and every single day of them I had the cosy feeling that maemo.org definitely is running fine today just like it did yesterday and will do tomorrow |
| 23:18.16 | Win7Mac | DocS, how long are you maemo-admin? |
| 23:19.07 | Win7Mac | *for ~ |
| 23:19.41 | xes | Win7Mac: you should ask that in a more detailed way.. Are you talking about common people days or Doc's days? ;) |
| 23:20.19 | Win7Mac | hmh? |
| 23:20.55 | Win7Mac | common peoples days I guess |
| 23:21.31 | Win7Mac | ...how many years |
| 23:21.47 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:23.10 | Win7Mac | *since even |
| 23:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I guess since 5 or 6 months |
| 23:31.23 | Win7Mac | oh, assumed you're doing this for ages already... |
| 23:31.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I really oughta get bashed for creating such a mess |
| 23:34.16 | Win7Mac | you're doing very well, afaik :) |
| 23:39.32 | lansiir | I think I already know the answer to this one, but do I *really* have to open up my n900 and resolder the USB port :/ |
| 23:39.50 | *** join/#maemo WizardNumberNext (~marek@host86-135-118-22.range86-135.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:39.53 | lansiir | Or is it all a bunch of people who worry way too much about a rare device? |
| 23:51.11 | Win7Mac | good night |
| 23:57.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: depends |
| 23:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you feel with your hardware, you probably will manage to handle it in a way so either mothing bad ever happens to it or at least you notice immediately the first signs of doom pending |
