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| 02:17.35 | Gear_ | what is meego like on the n900? |
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| 02:29.48 | Gear_ | I figure if I ask in here I'll get the downsides |
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| 02:48.57 | Sc0rpius | it's pretty slow |
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| 06:51.04 | divVerent | can anyone confirm ANY youtube app for maemo? |
| 06:51.22 | divVerent | for me none work, not even on videos with no copyright claims |
| 06:51.36 | divVerent | but maybe I did not find the right one |
| 06:51.46 | divVerent | eg nvideo is the only one showing errors at all |
| 06:52.01 | divVerent | and always tells me the video is for desktop ste omly |
| 06:52.11 | divVerent | but I know they worked on iOS some months ago |
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| 07:11.09 | joga | I just use the browser |
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| 07:21.49 | divVerent | joga: that does not work for me, 2fps ;) |
| 07:22.07 | joga | divVerent, I don't think any app will perform better |
| 07:22.17 | orson | divVerent: that's strange - do you watch hd videos? |
| 07:22.20 | joga | youtube is pretty much usable only if you let it buffer completely |
| 07:22.43 | joga | even 480p is too sluggish to watch |
| 07:22.50 | orson | divVerent: I observed that videos go faster if you make it fullscreen |
| 07:27.49 | divVerent | orson: maybe |
| 07:27.53 | divVerent | I don't get the choice dropdown |
| 07:27.56 | divVerent | it does not LOOK like HD |
| 07:32.44 | joga | if you're using the n900 and actually seeing a moving video, it's not HD |
| 07:33.20 | joga | (ie. it doesn't perform well enough to play such) |
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| 08:01.31 | divVerent | ah, I see now |
| 08:01.34 | divVerent | the youtube controls exist |
| 08:01.38 | divVerent | but are invisible |
| 08:01.56 | divVerent | so I need to learn the exact position of the resolution selector and the fullscreen control ;) |
| 08:02.00 | divVerent | any idea if this bug is fixable BTW? |
| 08:02.09 | divVerent | probably something wrong with flash if that happens, I guess |
| 08:02.16 | divVerent | the bar below the seekbar only shows the time |
| 08:02.20 | divVerent | all other controls are black on black |
| 08:02.27 | divVerent | even the play/pause button |
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| 08:15.56 | Mekkis | anyone manage to get svn to work properly on maemo? |
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| 08:19.14 | trx | http://maemo.org/packages/view/subversion/ |
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| 09:15.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | the quote for today: >>I wouldn't hold your breath.<< |
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| 09:18.32 | rikanee | aww man, the other half turned out to be Xpress-on covers. |
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| 09:47.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: as long as the video doesn't need downscaling, all youtube works just fine in microB for me |
| 09:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: alas the trend is towards 1440p and similar shit, that doesn't even play on my desktop |
| 09:47.52 | freemangordon_ | DocScrutinizer05: sure, but it is 320x240 or such |
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| 09:48.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: which sucks, given that n900 is perfectly capable of 640x480 without much of a hassle |
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| 09:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ""it is""? |
| 09:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is? |
| 09:58.18 | freemangordon | the video resolution on youtube played in microb |
| 09:58.41 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ |
| 09:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I think i also seen 640*400 playing in microB |
| 09:58.51 | freemangordon | no way |
| 09:59.01 | freemangordon | trust me on that (tm) :) |
| 09:59.28 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: BTW, in youtube |
| 09:59.36 | divVerent | are you using html5 (i.e. got that to work with microb) or flash? |
| 09:59.53 | freemangordon | it is (cute/qml)tube that plays in higher res |
| 09:59.57 | freemangordon | divVerent: flash |
| 10:00.00 | divVerent | when I tried to enter the html5 preview, it told me the N900 suppots HTML5 <video> but neither H.264 nor WebM |
| 10:00.08 | divVerent | qmltube doesn't play AT ALL |
| 10:00.19 | freemangordon | divVerent: whaat?!? |
| 10:00.21 | divVerent | the video doesn't evenstart, I immediately get to the related videos view |
| 10:00.35 | divVerent | that is why I was asking |
| 10:00.42 | freemangordon | weird, which video is that? |
| 10:00.44 | divVerent | basically, for better performance, I do not want Flash but play through the DSP |
| 10:00.47 | divVerent | every single one |
| 10:01.04 | divVerent | let's do it other way round, name me a video that works |
| 10:01.10 | freemangordon | divVerent: impossible, something is broken on your device |
| 10:01.13 | freemangordon | divVerent: ok |
| 10:01.17 | freemangordon | just a second |
| 10:01.24 | divVerent | freemangordon: that is why I am asking here, basically |
| 10:01.31 | divVerent | I might have some gstreamer package installed that is in conflict |
| 10:01.35 | divVerent | just which |
| 10:01.45 | divVerent | I have the mp-*-pr package of cssu-thumb installed |
| 10:01.48 | divVerent | so I sure am not MISSING anything |
| 10:01.54 | divVerent | but maybe some EXTRA gstreamer stuff hurts here |
| 10:02.12 | freemangordon | could be |
| 10:02.43 | divVerent | anyway, a test cvideo on which I own the account, and know it hzas no copyright claims: |
| 10:02.53 | divVerent | xonoticbotorchestra sonata piano (all of these) |
| 10:03.05 | divVerent | it shows Loading... |
| 10:03.10 | divVerent | then immediately Related videos |
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| 10:05.23 | freemangordon | divVerent: works like charm |
| 10:05.49 | freemangordon | tara-da-tam-tam :) |
| 10:05.59 | freemangordon | some game? |
| 10:06.43 | freemangordon | hehe, what are those guys with tubes? :D |
| 10:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: seems you're right :-/ PLUS in fullscreen mode I touched the volume keys and poof: sound gone |
| 10:07.32 | freemangordon | divVerent: this is qmltube, though afaik it shout be ok in cutetube as well |
| 10:07.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | on ZAPPA >:-(( |
| 10:08.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: volume keys changing the volume is by design, check in microb settings |
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| 10:08.57 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: which version, 9 or 10? |
| 10:09.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? sound gone when hitting VOL+ is also by design? |
| 10:09.21 | freemangordon | hmm, no :) |
| 10:09.35 | freemangordon | though never hit that |
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| 10:10.27 | freemangordon | divVerent: install syslog and check for error messages |
| 10:12.01 | freemangordon | divVerent: But for sure something is broken on your device iiuc. I am on cssu-thumb here too, with HD Harmattan codecs, not that this matters, it should be fine with stock codecs too |
| 10:12.50 | freemangordon | divVerent: BTW check your (?)tube settings, on what resolution it tries to play the videos and which player it tries to use |
| 10:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>insatll syslog<< I kinda hate this meme, everybody should already have syslog installed already |
| 10:15.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | a 600MHz ARM is about as much grunt as a P-II-300, maybe less. I recall I had massive problems playing any youtube videos on my CF-27 with P-II-300 and 192MB RAM |
| 10:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure the graca makes a lot of difference, but only if you have proper driver support for it |
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| 10:20.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohhh, and just since I feel like it (OT) : FSCK U AKONADI!!! |
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| 10:23.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I never updated to that "flash 10" |
| 10:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard it's worth it either |
| 10:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather seem to recall that fremantle flash9 seen so many backports of flash10 patches that in the end our flash9 is > the POC flash10 implementation |
| 10:25.16 | divVerent | 12:06:43 freemangordon | hehe, what are those guys with tubes? :D |
| 10:25.35 | divVerent | hehe, this is a first person shooter slightly abused ;) |
| 10:25.51 | divVerent | so... app errors go to syslog? |
| 10:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | logger lines go to syslog |
| 10:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | logger(1) |
| 10:27.18 | divVerent | I mean |
| 10:27.26 | divVerent | you say that maemo apps tend to log via logger? |
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| 10:27.38 | divVerent | while on desktop linux they tend to use stderr or a file ;) |
| 10:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and syslog(3) |
| 10:27.47 | divVerent | yes, same thing (logger logs via syslog(3)) |
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| 10:28.39 | divVerent | sysklogd is the package to install, I suppose |
| 10:28.47 | freemangordon | divVerent: you may also try to start (?)tube via terminal |
| 10:28.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: well, several of the middleware aka streamer stuff and DSP stuff for sure logs to syslog |
| 10:29.02 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ah, didn't know that |
| 10:29.07 | divVerent | desktop gstreamer spams stderr ;) |
| 10:29.16 | freemangordon | divVerent: as there could be something logged there too |
| 10:29.22 | divVerent | I checked stderr |
| 10:29.25 | divVerent | it shows nothing interesting |
| 10:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | DSP hickups for sure show up in syslog only |
| 10:30.06 | divVerent | OH, I now got an ACTUAL message on stderr |
| 10:30.25 | divVerent | Error: ""http://r6---sn-<whatever>.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?........youtube.com: Forbidden" |
| 10:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOLWUT? |
| 10:30.45 | divVerent | a 403 |
| 10:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 10:30.52 | divVerent | and I know the video is NOT banned in Switzerland |
| 10:30.55 | divVerent | as I can view it in the browser |
| 10:31.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | wireshark time |
| 10:31.25 | divVerent | I have the full URL in the error |
| 10:31.27 | divVerent | I could try it manually |
| 10:31.47 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 10:31.57 | divVerent | syslog has no errors BTW |
| 10:32.15 | freemangordon | divVerent: ^^ is pretty much enough ;) |
| 10:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, 403 don't show up in syslog usually ;-) |
| 10:33.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | browser ID? |
| 10:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | (orwhatsthename) |
| 10:34.05 | freemangordon | user agent :P |
| 10:34.05 | divVerent | no idea, currently trying the URL with other software |
| 10:34.07 | divVerent | Opera fails too |
| 10:34.17 | divVerent | MicroB shows white page, that may be error or not ;) |
| 10:34.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | browser identification actually |
| 10:34.41 | freemangordon | divVerent: is this cutetube or qmltube? |
| 10:34.45 | divVerent | qmltube |
| 10:34.53 | freemangordon | from extras-devel? |
| 10:35.09 | freemangordon | divVerent: ^^^ |
| 10:35.23 | divVerent | freemangordon: let me check which one |
| 10:35.28 | freemangordon | what is the qmltube version? |
| 10:35.40 | divVerent | apt-cache policy'ing it... |
| 10:35.42 | divVerent | it is 1.3.2 |
| 10:35.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is your network connection? |
| 10:35.52 | divVerent | Swisscom ADSL |
| 10:35.54 | divVerent | via WLAN |
| 10:35.56 | freemangordon | waaaait |
| 10:35.57 | divVerent | hm... could try via mobile for a test |
| 10:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | for both, PC and N900? |
| 10:36.12 | divVerent | yes, but in both cases the browser way works |
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| 10:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 10:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | <divVerent> MicroB shows white page, that may be error or not ;) |
| 10:36.36 | freemangordon | divVerent: install cutetube from extras-devel, the version should be 1.7.2 |
| 10:36.50 | divVerent | I have that too, let me try it |
| 10:37.15 | divVerent | on the very video |
| 10:37.58 | divVerent | black screen, then yellow message bar "Video cannot be played" |
| 10:38.12 | divVerent | stderr also mentions a 403 |
| 10:39.01 | divVerent | URL looks SLIGHTLY different (but may be just order of parameters) |
| 10:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | just idly wonders if there's a xterm/shell that would color stderr different to stdout |
| 10:39.43 | divVerent | same URL in Chrome on my PC: also 403 |
| 10:39.51 | freemangordon | divVerent: youtube doesn't like you :P |
| 10:39.51 | divVerent | that means we probably can rule out User-Agent |
| 10:40.24 | freemangordon | goes afk |
| 10:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, just when the solution shines up, freemangordon goes afk |
| 10:41.31 | divVerent | http://preview.tinyurl.com/mn2cwpc |
| 10:41.33 | divVerent | this BTW is the URL |
| 10:41.38 | divVerent | (tinyurl'd, though) |
| 10:42.22 | divVerent | shows 403 from Germany too |
| 10:46.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: DAFAQ! "you received a cookie from tinyURL" -- >>Preview of TinyURL.com/mn2cwpc: BLABLABLABLA<< |
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| 10:47.51 | banktech | Hi, Can anyone help me out, When I run the terminal on my Nokia N900 it asks me for a password, Is there one set by default? |
| 10:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw the link "proceed to this site" resolves as "http://r5---sn-" (SIC) here |
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| 10:48.36 | divVerent | docscrutinizerweird |
| 10:48.39 | divVerent | BTW |
| 10:48.46 | divVerent | when I use quvi on desktop to get the video URL |
| 10:48.51 | divVerent | it will then NOT 403 |
| 10:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://r5---sn-nfpnnjvh-9ane.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?ms=au&fexp=927834,911418,913571,916625,919513,924605,901208,929123,929915,929906,925714,929119,931202,932802,928017,912518,911416,906838,906906,904476,930807,919373,906836,933701,900345,900816,926403,912711,929606,910075,906098&mt=1369046247&ipbits=48&itag=18&mv=m&upn=L7D91A2Dags&source=youtube&ip=2a02%253A1205%253A5012%253A5f20%253A3ef7%253A2aff%253Afe57%253Ab4ed&ratebypass=yes& |
| 10:48.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sver=3&id=7f38dc0f26c47be5&sparams=cp,id,ip,ipbits,itag,ratebypass,source,upn,expire&cp=U0hVTlBRVl9NTUNONV9IS1pEOmdNLUtKbTVCdU81&newshard=yes&key=yt1&expire=1369068383&type=video/mp4;+codecs=%22avc1.42001E,+mp4a.40.2%22&fallback_host=tc.v3.cache1.c.youtube.com&signature=86141E1E48FB099BB69E646583CDBDF4843A04A1.877534EF9C49E16F3F6383A84BE13BE21948862D |
| 10:48.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | UGH sorry |
| 10:49.01 | divVerent | that looks right |
| 10:49.08 | divVerent | I only used tinyurl to not have to make such a paste ;) |
| 10:50.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't be surprised if several apps would fail on such a URL |
| 10:51.41 | divVerent | the URL by quvi looks very similar though ;) |
| 10:51.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably not everybody using a buffer of arbitrary unlimited size for the URL |
| 10:51.54 | divVerent | I am now comparing the two URLs |
| 10:52.37 | divVerent | fexp is escaped in quvi's URL but not in cutetube's... but this SHOULD not matter |
| 10:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | BTW: type=video/mp4;+codecs=%22avc1.42001E,+mp4a |
| 10:53.00 | divVerent | ip= is an IPv6 address (to be noted!) |
| 10:53.02 | divVerent | but in BOTH cases |
| 10:53.13 | divVerent | so I was contacting YT via v6 |
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| 10:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 10:53.54 | divVerent | sparams also differ in escaping |
| 10:54.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | mp4, avc1 and mp4a doesn't sound like good food for N900 |
| 10:55.10 | divVerent | not? I play that all the time at 800x480 res ;) |
| 10:55.20 | divVerent | also, youtube only really offers that, and WebM |
| 10:55.23 | divVerent | which is even worse food |
| 10:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 10:55.41 | divVerent | ip=2a02%253A1205%253A5012%253A5f20%253A3ef7%253A2aff%253Afe57%253Ab4ed |
| 10:55.43 | divVerent | I think there we go |
| 10:55.50 | divVerent | observe the double escaping |
| 10:55.55 | divVerent | this must be a bug in those youtube apps |
| 10:56.05 | divVerent | quvi does not double escape (it separates the words by %3A and not %253A) |
| 10:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc which double-escape |
| 10:56.19 | divVerent | who wrote cutetube? ;) |
| 10:56.26 | divVerent | because, I bet now that that's the bug |
| 10:56.34 | divVerent | to confirm, I will turn off Ipv6 |
| 10:56.36 | rikanee | divVerent: ping marxian |
| 10:56.46 | divVerent | where? |
| 10:57.38 | divVerent | YES |
| 10:57.42 | divVerent | now with the ip= parameter fixed |
| 10:57.46 | divVerent | it no longer is a 403 but now a redirect |
| 10:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | the wonders of IPv6 |
| 10:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and NAT |
| 10:58.37 | divVerent | there is no NAT |
| 10:58.39 | divVerent | when usign v6 |
| 10:58.41 | divVerent | ;) |
| 10:58.44 | divVerent | yes, it works with that fixed |
| 10:58.48 | divVerent | this is no fault with v6 though |
| 10:58.52 | divVerent | the N900 does it right... |
| 10:58.58 | divVerent | only those apps escape the parameter twice |
| 11:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAHAHA, double escape, now I get it |
| 11:01.02 | divVerent | hm... how to turn off ipv6? |
| 11:01.05 | divVerent | when I remove the address |
| 11:01.08 | divVerent | it comes back within seconds |
| 11:01.31 | *** join/#maemo banktech_ (~banktech@dab-crx1-h-21-3.dab.02.net) |
| 11:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think N900 isn't made for IPv6 |
| 11:01.37 | divVerent | while sleep 1; do ip addr del 2a02:1205:5012:5f20:3ef7:2aff:fe57:b4 |
| 11:01.39 | divVerent | ed/64 dev wlan0; done |
| 11:01.41 | divVerent | other than by this |
| 11:01.43 | divVerent | no, it is |
| 11:01.48 | divVerent | N900's v6 support is GREAT ;) |
| 11:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see |
| 11:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 11:01.58 | divVerent | the issue is just |
| 11:02.02 | divVerent | that I use auto address config |
| 11:02.09 | divVerent | and apparently this DSL box sends router advertisements every 5 sec |
| 11:02.32 | divVerent | I don't own the DSL box, so I can't reconfigure it to not do that |
| 11:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the problem is that the app gets the IP addr from somewhere, and that IP addr obviously already is escaped, and the app escapes it again |
| 11:03.38 | divVerent | right |
| 11:03.49 | divVerent | for v4 this causes no issue as long as the escaping leaves dots alone |
| 11:03.52 | divVerent | but v6 adds the : |
| 11:04.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and this shouldn't get escaped by the "system-call" delivering the IP addr |
| 11:04.55 | *** join/#maemo thp (~thp@Maemo/community/contributor/thp) |
| 11:05.02 | divVerent | no |
| 11:05.07 | divVerent | it gets the IP from youtube's server |
| 11:05.09 | divVerent | that I am sure of |
| 11:05.16 | divVerent | or it would break when behind NAT |
| 11:05.20 | divVerent | and we know youtube works from behind NAT |
| 11:05.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 11:06.18 | divVerent | /home/user # sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.wlan0.disable_ipv6=1 |
| 11:06.20 | divVerent | net.ipv6.conf.wlan0.disable_ipv6 = 1 |
| 11:06.22 | divVerent | that probably should do |
| 11:06.41 | divVerent | yes, v6 address no longer comes back |
| 11:07.04 | Gear_ | the pxt thing has stopped working |
| 11:07.05 | Pali | Drathir: ping |
| 11:07.07 | Gear_ | I forget what it's called |
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| 11:07.16 | divVerent | hm... let's see where else I need to turn off v6 now |
| 11:07.19 | Gear_ | with maemo cssu |
| 11:07.38 | Gear_ | multimedia messaging just doesn't work at all |
| 11:08.26 | Gear_ | is there some kind of fix? |
| 11:08.57 | divVerent | yes, with v6 turned off youtube works in cutetube |
| 11:09.19 | divVerent | had to set this sysctl then reconnect WLAN manually |
| 11:09.47 | divVerent | let me see where the bug report page is |
| 11:10.09 | divVerent | WTF is xsbc-bugtracker: protocol |
| 11:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 11:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Gear_: MMS? |
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| 11:11.51 | divVerent | how to report bug to a package not in the list on https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras? |
| 11:11.57 | divVerent | or where else to report bugs to cutetube? |
| 11:12.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg |
| 11:12.18 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 11:12.28 | Gear_ | MMS |
| 11:12.40 | Pali | http://maemo.org/packages/view/cutetube/ |
| 11:12.44 | divVerent | yes |
| 11:12.46 | Pali | direcly to maintainer |
| 11:12.59 | divVerent | oh, there is no tracker |
| 11:13.01 | divVerent | ok then |
| 11:13.13 | divVerent | I ended up here first: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cutetube/ |
| 11:13.15 | Gear_ | are there any new repositories that I should have |
| 11:13.21 | divVerent | and this has a link to xsbc-bugtracker: http://bugs.maemo.org |
| 11:13.25 | divVerent | but bugs.maemo.org does not know cutetube |
| 11:13.34 | Pali | also you can report that "Bugtracker:" does not working |
| 11:13.46 | Gear_ | cutetube doesn't really work on mine either |
| 11:13.59 | Pali | write email to maintainer |
| 11:14.01 | Gear_ | it usually doesnt' play any of the videos |
| 11:14.04 | Pali | and report bugs |
| 11:14.21 | Gear_ | the phone has become a lot less functional lately |
| 11:14.30 | Gear_ | I don't want to give it up though |
| 11:14.31 | divVerent | Gear_: maybe you have the same issue? |
| 11:14.45 | Gear_ | but there doesn't seem to be another os that is even complete for the n900 |
| 11:14.54 | divVerent | try turning off IPv6 on the interface you use, then reconnect (to clear all remaining addresses lazily) |
| 11:15.11 | Gear_ | maemo cssu is maybe the problem |
| 11:15.15 | divVerent | sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.wlan0.disable_ipv6=1 |
| 11:15.17 | divVerent | is the command |
| 11:15.22 | divVerent | not REALLY, but PARTIALLY |
| 11:15.27 | divVerent | kernel-power adds IPv6 support |
| 11:15.33 | divVerent | so this issue cannot happen without kernel-power installed |
| 11:15.53 | Gear_ | has anyone here used ubuntu |
| 11:15.56 | divVerent | not because of a bug in kernel-power, but because of extra functionality there |
| 11:15.59 | divVerent | yes, and hated it ;) |
| 11:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 11:16.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | buntkuh |
| 11:16.06 | Gear_ | why did you hate it? |
| 11:16.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~buntkuh |
| 11:16.21 | infobot | rumour has it, buntkuh is http://xkcd.com/424/ ... Redmond, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein-Rind |
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| 11:17.43 | Gear_ | I don't get why that is supposed to be funny |
| 11:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, it's the bitter truth |
| 11:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 11:18.28 | Gear_ | it is? |
| 11:18.44 | Gear_ | ubuntu has been going for longer than vista |
| 11:18.54 | Gear_ | what are the similarities if any |
| 11:20.06 | Pali | nowadays ubuntu looks like piece of shit! |
| 11:20.21 | Pali | they invented new display server which it totally useless |
| 11:20.33 | divVerent | which one? |
| 11:20.37 | Pali | they invened new package system which is worse that all others |
| 11:20.44 | divVerent | and also, a new package system? |
| 11:20.48 | divVerent | they no longer use dpkg? |
| 11:20.52 | Pali | mir |
| 11:20.56 | Pali | mir = displayserver |
| 11:21.01 | divVerent | oh, that one |
| 11:21.14 | divVerent | named after a quite success-less space station? ;) |
| 11:21.18 | Pali | package system which force maintainer to use static linking |
| 11:21.33 | divVerent | is that for all ubuntu packages, or do you only mean the paid for apps in that store? |
| 11:21.38 | Pali | and installation to /opt all packages |
| 11:21.48 | divVerent | IIRC only this Store thing does that |
| 11:21.54 | divVerent | but anything important is available via apt |
| 11:21.56 | divVerent | or has that changed too? |
| 11:22.00 | Pali | all user application packages |
| 11:22.07 | divVerent | even stuff like GIMP? wtf |
| 11:22.10 | Pali | *new* |
| 11:22.23 | Pali | new packages |
| 11:22.23 | divVerent | they suck |
| 11:22.24 | divVerent | but that is not news |
| 11:22.30 | divVerent | I stopped using Ubuntu at 10.10 |
| 11:22.59 | Pali | another canonical action is sending local search expression to amazon server |
| 11:23.01 | divVerent | because 9.04 -> 9.10 broke mounting root file system (had to run "mountall" on emergency shell and it magically worked then) |
| 11:23.21 | Pali | ah, mountall, this is horrible stupid SW |
| 11:23.24 | divVerent | so I had to reinstall 9.10 as this was impossible to track down (upstart sucks, too bad N900 uses this shit too... but at least it caused no problems for me on N900 yet) |
| 11:23.28 | divVerent | ok |
| 11:23.32 | divVerent | 9.10 -> 10.04: same issue |
| 11:23.35 | divVerent | 10.04 -> 10.10: same issue |
| 11:23.38 | divVerent | then I instaleld Arch Linux |
| 11:23.47 | Pali | upstart is better then systemd |
| 11:23.50 | divVerent | nope |
| 11:24.00 | divVerent | upstart has actually lots of disadvantages vs systemd |
| 11:24.03 | divVerent | but systemd's author is an asshole |
| 11:24.24 | divVerent | systemd is great, the politics behind it I don#t want to support though |
| 11:24.28 | Pali | upstart working, systemd not, I was not able to debug someting in systemd |
| 11:24.40 | divVerent | I was never able to debug upstart issues... systemd works fine for me ;) |
| 11:24.52 | Pali | using binary logs is totall nonsense |
| 11:24.55 | divVerent | systemd has actual dependencies, upstart only these vague "events" |
| 11:24.59 | divVerent | that IS nonsense |
| 11:25.03 | divVerent | this is what I hate about systemd |
| 11:25.05 | divVerent | the kitchen sink effect |
| 11:25.19 | divVerent | same goes for udev |
| 11:25.23 | Pali | I'd like to usee openrc init daemon maemo... |
| 11:25.35 | divVerent | this is politics in systemd... they WANT as much important functionality as possible IN systemd so everyone is forced to use it |
| 11:25.46 | divVerent | and this is the part of systemd I really hate |
| 11:25.56 | Pali | right |
| 11:25.58 | divVerent | see the udev issue... |
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| 11:26.08 | divVerent | this just shows what an asshole Poettering is |
| 11:26.11 | Pali | compiling udev is hard |
| 11:26.15 | divVerent | let me guess, soon systemd and pulseaudio will merge |
| 11:26.27 | divVerent | because, you know, we need BOOT SOUNDS |
| 11:26.33 | Pali | plus I see lot of systemd files which comes from udev on my linux |
| 11:26.39 | divVerent | after that, systemd will try to merge X.org into it ;) |
| 11:26.45 | Pali | and if I removed some, system is unbootable |
| 11:26.56 | divVerent | for graphical boot screen nonsense |
| 11:27.34 | Pali | I will never recommend ubuntu system anymore |
| 11:27.48 | Pali | and my next installation will be clean debian |
| 11:28.17 | Pali | debian is last normal and working linux distribution without systemd dependency |
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| 11:32.31 | Gear_ | ubuntu 10.anything is old as fuck |
| 11:33.10 | Gear_ | years old |
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| 11:36.38 | divVerent | Pali: debian will eventually have to switch to systemd too |
| 11:36.45 | divVerent | that's just how this pressure works |
| 11:36.56 | Pali | divVerent: I think not |
| 11:37.00 | divVerent | once a really important other package really NEEDS systemd, debian will either have more and more work of patching around it |
| 11:37.02 | divVerent | or be forced to switch |
| 11:37.10 | Pali | not all debian devs accepting it |
| 11:37.17 | divVerent | it was originally planned for GNOME3 to hard require systemd |
| 11:37.20 | divVerent | sure they do not accept it |
| 11:37.27 | divVerent | but when it is no longer viable to patch around such things... |
| 11:37.30 | divVerent | then they will be forced to |
| 11:37.33 | Pali | and then they will not include it |
| 11:37.36 | divVerent | and Poettering's goal is to achieve exactly that |
| 11:37.45 | divVerent | if it is a component so important they must include it, that won't work |
| 11:37.52 | divVerent | luckily, GNOME3 is none of that |
| 11:37.54 | divVerent | but X.org is ;) |
| 11:37.58 | Pali | also debian supporting kfreebsd, where systemd not working |
| 11:38.01 | divVerent | exactly |
| 11:38.20 | Pali | and they will not drop this arch because of systemd |
| 11:38.30 | divVerent | when Poettering's influence prevails, Debian will be forced to drop archs like kFreeBSD and switch to systemd entirely |
| 11:38.32 | divVerent | or just die |
| 11:38.38 | divVerent | due to no longer supporting important software |
| 11:38.44 | Pali | debian devs propably do not upgrade to last gnome which will depends on systemd |
| 11:38.55 | divVerent | in a few years, they will be forced |
| 11:39.00 | divVerent | luckily, GNOME is not THAT essential ;) |
| 11:39.17 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@95.153.161.109) |
| 11:39.18 | divVerent | so they CAN decide to drop that instead |
| 11:39.19 | Pali | there always will be some distribution without systemd |
| 11:39.26 | divVerent | I claim the opposite |
| 11:39.33 | Pali | and there always will be people who do not want to se systemd |
| 11:39.35 | divVerent | maybe because it'll be more and more complex to work around having no systemd |
| 11:39.53 | divVerent | maybe someone will code a fake systemd that is a wrapper to openrc or the like? ;) |
| 11:40.01 | divVerent | that is the only way I see that may work in the long run |
| 11:40.12 | Pali | and if happends that *all* distros will be using systemd, I will create new one without it |
| 11:40.25 | divVerent | have fun, it'll become harder every day |
| 11:40.54 | divVerent | the systemd interface provider (basically a server for dbus commands that handles them different from systemd) is really the only way I see that can work in the long run |
| 11:41.59 | divVerent | maybe the FreeBSD guys will code that thing ;) |
| 11:42.08 | divVerent | and then all Linux distros can use it too to not have to use systemd :P |
| 11:43.16 | divVerent | still, poettering created a weird situation there |
| 11:43.29 | divVerent | systemd is (mostly) good software, but nobody wants to support the likes of Lennart Poettering |
| 11:43.37 | divVerent | he screwed up Linux audio, and now the boot process |
| 11:44.01 | divVerent | pulseaudio on the N900 e.g. is nonsense too |
| 11:44.40 | divVerent | the last thing I want to run on a device with 256MB is a stupid daemon for audio, when ALSA's own means would work well enough (dmix is a LOT smaller than pulseaudio) |
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| 11:48.25 | Pali | divVerent: because they (or outsourced?) wrote closed GSM pulseaudio modules... |
| 11:57.13 | divVerent | Pali: AH, that is what PA is for ;) |
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| 12:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | **SIGH** |
| 12:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders if there are other more down-to-earth and radical ways to solve the ~poettering problem |
| 12:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | awesome: http://www.google.de/search?q=poettering+asshole |
| 12:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | now just how to unite all those sentiments and efforts? |
| 12:48.40 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: get devs to once again unbundle the software? |
| 12:49.22 | rikanee | having all base system services is neat and efficient IF you already intend to run GNOME |
| 12:50.23 | rikanee | unfortunately, udev comes bundled with systemd now, so if you want to use udev (which is pretty convenient), you can't use ye olde initscripts. |
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| 13:13.15 | divVerent | 14:45:14 * | DocScrutinizer05 ponders if there are other more down-to-earth and |
| 13:13.18 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:13.20 | divVerent | guns? ;) |
| 13:15.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | tempting |
| 13:15.46 | cehteh | why didnt microsoft hire him yet? .. and icaza too |
| 13:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | this fsckng guy, and canonical, hijacked linux and took it for hostage |
| 13:17.18 | cehteh | he is a one-man-marketing department .. i really admire him for that, but he should not write/design/think about software anymore |
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| 13:18.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen poettering |
| 13:18.27 | infobot | i haven't seen 'poettering', DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:18.27 | cehteh | i hate this "we hate unix, thats why we use it and change everything" fanclub |
| 13:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: ack^42 |
| 13:19.20 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: #systemd |
| 13:19.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recently seen dbus on servers, went damaging my apartment in a fury |
| 13:19.45 | cehteh | while i met lennard in personal once, and we had some good talk |
| 13:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, and don't get me started about avahi |
| 13:20.14 | cehteh | yeah his software is a desaster |
| 13:21.00 | cehteh | come to mind .. what will happen if lennard and schily meet .. that must be an awesome fight :) |
| 13:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | who's Schily? |
| 13:21.45 | cehteh | Mr. cdrecord ... |
| 13:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 13:22.14 | cehteh | his ego is a perfect gas.. it fills any space :) |
| 13:23.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder where's the petition list to ban all poettering-borne software from my / any decent linux distro? |
| 13:24.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | even openSuse now using systemd per default (though you allegedly can still opt out for sysV-init) |
| 13:24.44 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: surprisingly i unknowingly used one library which was done by lennard and it was ok .. he once made a small threaded wraper for name lookups which is just ok |
| 13:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I forget each time to unselect avahi and PA from package selection when installing another system |
| 13:25.52 | jaska | ahh? avahi is poetteringware? |
| 13:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: he also once uttered some semi-reasonable staement against that new X11 replacement |
| 13:25.55 | jaska | figures |
| 13:25.59 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: the first step is to stop GNOME devs from humping all his stuff |
| 13:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | fist step is to declare gnome a crime |
| 13:27.01 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: as i saied, he is the right guy if you want to do some marketing, but his ideas about software ecology are a desaster |
| 13:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't be too hard to make M$ sue their ass outa the water for ruthless copying of windows |
| 13:27.40 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05, I think you may be confusing GNOME for KDE, or M$ for Apple |
| 13:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm for sure not confusing gnome and kde |
| 13:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just neglected that kde4 is probably worse than gnome nowadays - in default config (on gnome you don't have any config options afaik) |
| 13:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not talking about the default skin, but about the concepts and configuarbility |
| 13:29.50 | rikanee | ah. |
| 13:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have to admit I have no clue what windows looks like nowadays |
| 13:30.05 | cehteh | long ago i came to a conclusion that any desktop environment sux |
| 13:30.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: sure, but at least kde2 and kde3 allowed me to mitigate that, with a 6 months of tweaking and finetuning the config options |
| 13:31.05 | cehteh | and then they all reinvent the wheel, hardware mangement, auto mounting and so on |
| 13:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the record: konqueror is still my only web browser |
| 13:31.30 | rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: GNOME Shell is actually written in JS+HTML+CSS, but the code's absolutely unreadable, being mixed in with NIH programming languages for GNOME |
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| 13:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | oohshit, now I see where all this is heading to. The web"-programmers" taking over the world |
| 13:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | qml. qtm. Feel like puking |
| 13:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | generation script-kiddie taking over |
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| 13:40.18 | GeneralAntilles | It's terrible when programming becomes more accessible! |
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| 13:44.40 | kaliosas | b.uy cs, nfs,cod,nba and other steam acc/gifts. /q me |
| 13:53.27 | kaliosas | b.uy cs, nfs, cod, dirt, nba and other steam acc/gifts. /q me |
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| 15:40.32 | freemangordon | divVerent: rmmod ipv6 ;) |
| 15:40.51 | freemangordon | divVerent: you may also want to blacklist that :) |
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| 15:42.23 | divVerent | no, I _want_ v6 support |
| 15:42.26 | divVerent | I just want it to work ;) |
| 15:42.33 | freemangordon | ooh, ok |
| 15:42.34 | divVerent | and everything else on the N900 supports v6 nice |
| 15:42.39 | divVerent | only these youtube apps have trouble |
| 15:42.40 | freemangordon | divVerent: did yo ucontacted marxian? |
| 15:42.44 | divVerent | yes |
| 15:42.51 | divVerent | he said he will fix or work around in next release |
| 15:43.01 | divVerent | I just wonder a bit if it is actually his bug |
| 15:43.03 | freemangordon | good. he is a nice guy and a brilliant developer, I am sure he'll react fast |
| 15:43.07 | divVerent | or if they all use some library for youtube |
| 15:43.18 | freemangordon | no youtube lib afaik |
| 15:43.25 | divVerent | I did see quvi is NOT used |
| 15:43.28 | divVerent | and am not aware of any other |
| 15:43.35 | freemangordon | it is his code |
| 15:43.53 | divVerent | then it will be an easy fix |
| 15:44.10 | divVerent | he basically told me he uses these strings as is... so it's weird they're broken |
| 15:44.23 | freemangordon | hmm, weird |
| 15:44.45 | freemangordon | it could be Qt playing smart here |
| 15:45.00 | freemangordon | divVerent: did you capture wireshark logs? |
| 15:45.01 | divVerent | yes, or youtube API being retarded ;) |
| 15:45.04 | divVerent | no |
| 15:45.09 | divVerent | can't do that easily here |
| 15:45.15 | divVerent | as I don't own the access point |
| 15:45.19 | freemangordon | divVerent: you have tcpdump on the device :P |
| 15:45.27 | divVerent | oh, tcpdump is packaged? nice |
| 15:45.29 | divVerent | then I can ;) |
| 15:45.48 | freemangordon | divVerent: come on, you are holding linux device in your hands ;) |
| 15:46.15 | divVerent | hehe |
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| 16:12.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | even tshark is available |
| 16:12.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: iirc even wireshark is avalable, won;t comment on how usable it will be :) |
| 16:13.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can even use tshark on device with wireshark on remote (desktop) in a "realime" manner |
| 16:13.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | realtime* |
| 16:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait a moment |
| 16:15.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1022444#post1022444 |
| 16:16.28 | freemangordon | yep, here it is http://maemo.org/packages/view/wireshark/ :D |
| 16:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wireshark1.4.4_ISI/readme.txt |
| 16:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even more direct: wireshark -k -i <(ssh -l root IroN900 tshark -w - -i eth0) |
| 16:18.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | on PC, obviously |
| 16:20.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | (you probably want your ssh pubkey in ~root/.ssh on N900 for that) |
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| 17:41.12 | Win7Mac | So nominations for HiFo BoD close in ~28 hours, yet we don't have a single nominee (incl. Rob)... Anybody up for that? |
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| 18:08.23 | Win7Mac | Would love to see same nominees as for council. Probably if it's the same group, we will finally have a functional BoD again. |
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| 18:14.41 | thedead1440 | Win7Mac: its never too late to throw your own name into the hat ;) |
| 18:15.48 | teotwaki__ | well, it will be too late at some point. |
| 18:15.57 | Win7Mac | I would, but I'm just not qualified at all. |
| 18:16.31 | thedead1440 | Win7Mac: everybody searching for excuses not to run themselves is why we are in this mess... |
| 18:16.55 | thedead1440 | Nobody is saying a candidate needs to have XYZ qualifications except for the karma requirements |
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| 18:17.22 | thedead1440 | also why do people give excuses as if they _will_ surely be voted in |
| 18:17.47 | thedead1440 | let the voters decide if you are good enough but throw your name in the hat with conviction that _you_ can make a difference |
| 18:18.20 | thedead1440 | s/with/with the/ |
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| 18:23.34 | GeneralAntilles | Board nominations are still going to maemo-community, right? |
| 18:24.29 | freemangordon | oh, how nice :( |
| 18:25.14 | Win7Mac | Really, I would, but I'm new to community, never had a N900 in my hands, have no clue about the whole maemo-infra, Linux in general or any programming at all. I'm already struggling with remaking my own website :-( |
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| 18:27.14 | thedead1440 | yay GeneralAntilles has self-nominated :) |
| 18:27.36 | Win7Mac | Whee... first nomination in: Ryan Abel! THANKS! |
| 18:27.59 | GeneralAntilles | (Shorter me: blah blah blah focus on keeping maemo.org running blah blah blah) |
| 18:28.01 | GeneralAntilles | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2013-May/005886.html |
| 18:28.03 | thedead1440 | Win7Mac: you don't need a N900 to understand basic needs. FWIW Rob's last Maemo device was a N810 iirc. You don't need linux knowledge to have common sense on what is right and what's plain stupid |
| 18:28.46 | freemangordon | thedead1440: there is no point to nominate yourself if you feel you can;t contribute. |
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| 18:29.20 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I'd feel exceptionally shameless tweeting my own nomination to @MWKN. |
| 18:29.34 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: some people feel they can't contribute out of fear ;) here is someone who follows all events closely but is always shy to speak out due to him feeling he has lesser Linux knowledge |
| 18:30.46 | kerio | Win7Mac: hold on... why are you here? :o |
| 18:30.47 | freemangordon | thedead1440: well, if you fear the bears, don;t enter the forest (NFC if there is a similar saying in english) |
| 18:30.52 | GeneralAntilles | Technical competence isn't really a key skill for the board. |
| 18:31.07 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 18:31.28 | freemangordon | thedead1440: my point is - if you are not self-confident... |
| 18:31.40 | GeneralAntilles | Ideally the board is mostly serving to handle the legal and administrative overhead to keep maemo.org running. |
| 18:32.03 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: agreed on that. i was focusing more on people shying away due to lack of technical competence |
| 18:32.12 | freemangordon | thedead1440: aah, I see |
| 18:32.23 | freemangordon | yep, this should not be a stopper |
| 18:32.51 | thedead1440 | especially things like programming skills or having a n900... |
| 18:33.11 | freemangordon | we have all the technical knowledge, AIUI it is more administrative/political knowledge that is needed |
| 18:33.21 | thedead1440 | indeed |
| 18:33.26 | freemangordon | thedead1440: sure |
| 18:33.49 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: btw why don't you run? :p |
| 18:34.03 | freemangordon | thedead1440: well, it is not too late :P |
| 18:34.14 | thedead1440 | you tick all the boxes and BoD is much less stressful than Council |
| 18:34.21 | thedead1440 | then run! :D |
| 18:34.30 | freemangordon | thedead1440: only 24 hours per day, that is why |
| 18:34.45 | freemangordon | that'll mean i'll have to steal time from other projects |
| 18:34.45 | thedead1440 | 2hours a week should be enough i think |
| 18:34.47 | kerio | GeneralAntilles: HA! we got you! |
| 18:34.54 | GeneralAntilles | I blame DocScrutinizer05 |
| 18:35.03 | thedead1440 | GeneralAntilles: we all blame DocScrutinizer05 |
| 18:35.06 | freemangordon | thedead1440: not to say that I DO HATE politics |
| 18:35.07 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 18:35.42 | kerio | freemangordon for president! |
| 18:35.53 | GeneralAntilles | freemangordon, frankly, I'm interested in making the board as low-overhead as is reasonable. |
| 18:36.25 | freemangordon | thedead1440: even in the RL I am on the position which fits me best and allows me to do what I like, no matter that my bosses tried to make me wear suit and a tie ;) |
| 18:36.27 | GeneralAntilles | For example: Keep the conference calls to what's legally required to take votes, not as the default meeting format. |
| 18:36.38 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: I'll consider nominating myself |
| 18:36.42 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: haha |
| 18:37.11 | kerio | GeneralAntilles: why would a phone call be required for legal reasons? |
| 18:37.21 | freemangordon | thedead1440: I am principal engineer in my company ;) |
| 18:37.28 | thedead1440 | ah |
| 18:37.29 | GeneralAntilles | kerio, something about 501(c)(3)s |
| 18:37.46 | freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: iirc voice call is not a must |
| 18:37.51 | GeneralAntilles | No? |
| 18:37.56 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 18:37.58 | GeneralAntilles | Well, screw the conference calls then. |
| 18:38.01 | thedead1440 | it is a must for meetings i think |
| 18:38.12 | thedead1440 | or for at least X number of meetings per year |
| 18:38.16 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 18:38.20 | kerio | why is that? |
| 18:38.20 | freemangordon | not sure though, never read the whole docs |
| 18:38.28 | kerio | irc is a valid form of communication, surely |
| 18:38.32 | thedead1440 | Rob did mention this is due to some US law where HiFo is incorporated as a NFP |
| 18:38.35 | GeneralAntilles | I was under the impression that it's required for meetings involving votes. |
| 18:39.02 | kerio | GeneralAntilles: you all vote on irc, then a brief voice call "voting for $proposition, i vote yay" "i vote yay" "i vote nay" "ok bye" |
| 18:39.09 | thedead1440 | if physical presence is absent, conference calls are the minimum requirements or something like that |
| 18:39.12 | GeneralAntilles | kerio, exactly. |
| 18:39.17 | kerio | thedead1440: what if someone is mute? |
| 18:39.25 | GeneralAntilles | kerio, relay call. |
| 18:39.35 | kerio | aren't there services to do that automatically? |
| 18:39.38 | freemangordon | wonders why Woody14619a is not nominated |
| 18:40.03 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: i think he will self-nominate himself too; at least that's the impression i have |
| 18:40.29 | freemangordon | thedead1440: well, could someone nominate him, I'd really like him to be in the BoD |
| 18:41.11 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: he still needs to accept the nomination so he'll still need to send his own nomination |
| 18:41.20 | thedead1440 | he seems to be missing since Friday |
| 18:41.25 | freemangordon | how many people are needed for BoD to be elected? 3? |
| 18:41.32 | thedead1440 | i wonder if he knows the deadline is <24hours |
| 18:41.53 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: iirc its x-2 so a min of 5 candidates |
| 18:42.01 | freemangordon | oh |
| 18:42.18 | freemangordon | I see no chance of having that many people by the deadline |
| 18:42.35 | freemangordon | even with me and Woody14619a |
| 18:42.55 | thedead1440 | we can push Doc in too and ask him to shanghai one more candidate ;) |
| 18:43.17 | freemangordon | how many people is Bod? 5? |
| 18:43.47 | thedead1440 | no less than 3 |
| 18:43.55 | thedead1440 | and no more than 7 |
| 18:44.07 | freemangordon | hmm, what if we have less than 5 candidates? |
| 18:44.14 | freemangordon | for elections that is |
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| 18:44.29 | freemangordon | the period is extended? |
| 18:45.03 | GeneralAntilles | By the way, does someone want to put together some questions that might be relevant to judging board nominees? |
| 18:45.33 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: it seems like there can be an extension for upto 60days |
| 18:45.48 | thedead1440 | oh sorry an extension for 30days |
| 18:46.05 | freemangordon | thedead1440: up to or exactly? |
| 18:46.14 | thedead1440 | upto |
| 18:46.39 | freemangordon | who decides for how long to extend? |
| 18:46.44 | freemangordon | current bod? |
| 18:46.47 | thedead1440 | the BoD |
| 18:46.49 | thedead1440 | yup |
| 18:46.49 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:46.56 | freemangordon | this is bad |
| 18:47.37 | freemangordon | anyway, I'll wait till tomorrow and will nominate myself only if there are 4 people so far |
| 18:47.50 | thedead1440 | yay! |
| 18:48.09 | freemangordon | BTW maybe it is a good idea someone to post on TMO a reminder |
| 18:48.14 | GeneralAntilles | back to work. |
| 18:48.34 | freemangordon | thedead1440: you're in council, ain't? |
| 18:48.42 | thedead1440 | freemangordon: yup in MCC |
| 18:48.45 | teotwaki__ | GeneralAntilles: have fun |
| 18:49.05 | freemangordon | teotwaki__: oh, what about you? (for BoD) |
| 18:49.42 | teotwaki__ | yeah right. |
| 18:49.49 | teotwaki__ | You don't want a troll like me in there. |
| 18:50.10 | freemangordon | :) |
| 18:50.22 | teotwaki__ | The only way you'll get me interested in this shit again is IF Jolla actually turns out not to be vapourware. |
| 18:50.52 | thedead1440 | teotwaki__: you sure? they showed a device now; they might manage to ship it out too :D |
| 18:50.55 | freemangordon | teotwaki__: oh, it is not that, they have half-a-device :D |
| 18:51.08 | teotwaki__ | ok, so it's mistware. |
| 18:51.15 | thedead1440 | lol |
| 18:51.15 | teotwaki__ | or dropletware. |
| 18:51.57 | freemangordon | no,no it is half device. and if you buy a t-shirt you can get it :P |
| 18:52.35 | freemangordon | thay'll send you the other half in 2014 |
| 18:53.09 | teotwaki__ | freemangordon: so you only get the coloured-plastic-bit which goes on the backside to hide the battery? |
| 18:53.16 | teotwaki__ | You get the part with the actual hardware in 2014? |
| 18:57.15 | freemangordon | teotwaki__: no, I am kidding. AIUI, you can preorder a device now. It seems it is some modular construction and you can separate the top part from the bottom part |
| 18:57.51 | freemangordon | what I got so far is that bottom part hase some circuitry, but no more details |
| 18:58.02 | freemangordon | s/hase/have/ |
| 18:59.36 | freemangordon | teotwaki__: there are some more details on TMO. But so far what is not clear is - CPU, screen resolution (HW) and whether there will be aegis-like crap (SW) |
| 18:59.39 | freemangordon | at least to me |
| 18:59.57 | teotwaki__ | well, we know it's a dual core. |
| 19:00.13 | teotwaki__ | Which is about as useful as "How long is a piece of string?" |
| 19:00.28 | freemangordon | whatever that means. dual-core what? |
| 19:00.37 | freemangordon | ARM, atom? |
| 19:00.43 | teotwaki__ | AMD. |
| 19:00.51 | freemangordon | yep |
| 19:00.58 | teotwaki__ | Or dual-core Arduino. |
| 19:01.27 | teotwaki__ | It's a dual-core Raspberry, with a screen bolted on, powered with a 9V battery. |
| 19:01.34 | teotwaki__ | "Finnish engineering at its finest". |
| 19:01.42 | freemangordon | exactly. not to say that details like - is bootloader locked are missing |
| 19:02.20 | teotwaki__ | Oh, and the by the way, "Giorgio by Moroder"; best track ever by Daft Punk. |
| 19:03.06 | freemangordon | googles for it |
| 19:03.22 | freemangordon | oh |
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| 19:18.49 | GeneralAntilles | Well, the UX demos look impressive |
| 19:21.03 | ruskie | http://linuxgizmos.com/jolla-seeks-sailfish-smartphone-preorders/ |
| 19:25.46 | teotwaki__ | The UX looks brilliant indeed, GeneralAntilles |
| 19:25.58 | teotwaki__ | GeneralAntilles: I love the context menus and how everything gets out of your way. |
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| 19:37.00 | Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles, very very late pong. |
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| 19:37.46 | GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, was trying to confirm nomination period closure for board. |
| 19:37.57 | GeneralAntilles | Also: are you nominating yourself? |
| 19:38.18 | Woody14619 | I have no idea honestly.... I've been dealing with real-life stuff from Thursday on. |
| 19:38.35 | Woody14619 | I'm not sure where any of the timing for this is coming from. |
| 19:39.02 | GeneralAntilles | teotwaki__, slick device, slick usable UX, good people. I think we just have to put up with obnoxious marketing and the limitations of start-ups. |
| 19:39.15 | GeneralAntilles | Nor I. |
| 19:39.33 | GeneralAntilles | Last thing I found was a 4 week extension from 2013-04-23 |
| 19:39.41 | Woody14619 | To my knowledge neither the new HFC nor the BoD has made an official call to even start the proces. |
| 19:41.29 | Woody14619 | The call from MCC was "declared invalid" by Rob, citing that HFC != MCC. I disagreed, Jim silently abstained. Without solid proof that the board declared HFC = MCC in the first meeting (which there is absolutly NO record of even happening, or voting bylaws in), the default is it needs to still be called. |
| 19:42.15 | GeneralAntilles | Well then. |
| 19:42.37 | Woody14619 | Even if HFC called it last meeting, nomination period is 2 weeks, not 1 weekend... So... I'm really not sure WTF is going on... Besides DocScrutinizer exploding and making a ton of backlog. :P |
| 19:44.29 | GeneralAntilles | As far as I'm aware, HFC endorsed previous election schedule setup by the MCC |
| 19:45.13 | Woody14619 | Which has long passed... |
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| 19:46.34 | Woody14619 | As for self nomination, sure... I'll nominate myself. My stated position from the begining was that for the comming election (whenever that is) I will self nominate, and if elected in I will continute to serve. If not, I would step down immediatly after seeing the new elected members seated. |
| 19:47.06 | Woody14619 | That still stands. So, I suppose as a premptive measure I should mail a self-nominating mail now. But to my knowledge, only you have nominated? |
| 19:47.14 | GeneralAntilles | Previous nomination period was extended a month. |
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| 19:58.01 | Woody14619 | Hmm.. Interesting... |
| 19:58.41 | Woody14619 | Why things can't just be done in a straight forward fashion.... Just call for it NOW and move forward instead of all this retro-active BS. :P |
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| 20:14.23 | SHARP66 | haho |
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| 20:18.34 | Win7Mac | Woody, you must have seen the actual Election timetable but never questioned it?: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Community_Council/Council_election_Q2_2013 |
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| 20:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: you have set time for start of BoD elections in voting machine |
| 20:21.21 | Woody14619 | Win7Mac, I'm far from omnicient. Am still in catch up mode from last week, just now reading friday's meeting log... |
| 20:21.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been your estimation when the votes would start, I understood that this estimation been based on HFC retroactively approving the BoD elections as initiated by last MCC |
| 20:22.09 | Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, yes... I set it initially to the 22nd, and bumped it forward wednesday to prevent it from auto-starting before I got back. |
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| 20:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, consider myself uninvolved to any further election stuff |
| 20:23.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I took a medical outtime |
| 20:23.28 | Woody14619 | Honestly, I bumped it forward based on random "I don't want this to autostart before I can edit it again". But reguardless... even accepting the previous time line, yes, elections are starting, a week from... tomorrow? (or two) after comtemplation period? So... |
| 20:23.40 | Win7Mac | oh, c'mon joerg |
| 20:24.06 | Woody14619 | which is good for you, I think. You have done more than anyone should have expected from you, and I thank you for it. |
| 20:24.28 | Woody14619 | I'll work with current Council/HFC to get things alligned now that I'm back to meet what was voted on. |
| 20:27.32 | Woody14619 | As I read it, it does start to make more sense to follow the old time line, though I know it's going to raise hell with some people about "I couldn't self nominate in time..." yada yada yada |
| 20:30.30 | Win7Mac | my concern is more on secretarys side... |
| 20:30.46 | Woody14619 | How so? |
| 20:30.58 | Win7Mac | bylaws |
| 20:31.08 | Woody14619 | Again, how so? |
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| 20:32.58 | Woody14619 | My concern is how this affects HFC. The concept being that HFC can force a BoD election by forcing their own as well. By retro-activating, it's unclear to me what the status of the current HFC is. |
| 20:34.09 | Win7Mac | retro-activating seems not an option IMHO |
| 20:34.43 | Woody14619 | Yet that is was HFC has voted for AFAIK, at the last meeting, no? |
| 20:35.28 | Win7Mac | i mean just because rob would simply not accept it |
| 20:35.49 | Woody14619 | Fuck Rob. |
| 20:36.04 | Win7Mac | because HFC has to stick to bylaws, no? |
| 20:36.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not Rob's pink-pony-shop |
| 20:36.22 | Win7Mac | but really, IDK! |
| 20:36.45 | Win7Mac | just how I would read it if I was him... |
| 20:39.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, rob more than once patronized us about the exact wording of bylaws is what he will follow, no matter if that interpretation makes sense or not. So, in the bylaws is not mentioned WHO has to announce elections, just that they need to get announced a certain time ahead of voting |
| 20:39.37 | Woody14619 | I think it can... Frankly, it would be cleaner to wipe and start fresh. It would be cleaner if BoD just had a damn meeting and declared it's own elections too, but then I'm not holding out hope on that. |
| 20:40.49 | Win7Mac | Whatever you do, just make sure there're no more loopholes for him and get responsible people in place! |
| 20:41.28 | Win7Mac | And don't wait for a meeting with him, as it'll most likely never will happen |
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| 20:42.46 | Win7Mac | *in place ASAP |
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| 20:48.26 | Woody14619 | Frankly, when elections occur, whenever they occur, and a set of people is elected, I think there will be no contention on appointing those community apppointed people to the board. I know that for fact on my part, and believe that will be true for Jim as well. If Rob disagrees, let him... It will be his final undoing step. |
| 20:51.01 | Woody14619 | Reguardless... Bylaws call for 7 days of reflection after nomination period. Period ends when ? 21st, so 28th is earliest date for start. I will update election interface accordingly, and discuss items with Council via e-mail/irc. |
| 20:51.08 | Woody14619 | qwazix, ^^^ |
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| 20:53.46 | qwazix | Woody14619: ack |
| 20:56.25 | Win7Mac | finally... rather late than too late. :p |
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| 21:02.23 | Woody14619 | And now I must work... |
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| 21:09.07 | GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, thanks for staying on top of all of this insanity. :D |
| 21:22.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw: >>VII. FOUNDATION COUNCIL<< >>There shall be either three of five persons on Council...<< I honestly hope this is clearly a typo and not again a common and usual phrase in modern or 16th century US english that means something completely non-intuitive |
| 21:25.09 | Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles, yup. DocScrutinizer05 yup. s/of/or/ |
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| 21:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: what means >>within three (3) months of a Board and/or Council<<? before, after, or before and after, or even half before and half after [(x-6weeks)..(x+6week)] ? |
| 21:36.10 | vishap | who knows where wireless configuration files are stored in maemo? |
| 21:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | gconf |
| 21:36.32 | vishap | and are they wpa_supplicant format conf files? |
| 21:36.38 | vishap | hmmm |
| 21:36.44 | vishap | so it's not a plane text |
| 21:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not exactly |
| 21:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda xml, but not meant to get directly edited |
| 21:37.49 | vishap | hmmm |
| 21:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68063 |
| 21:39.54 | vishap | thank you |
| 21:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | depending on what exactly you're interested in, there might be also files containing/handling that detail |
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| 21:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: X.: >>Every election, be if for Foundation Council, << s/if/it/ |
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| 22:24.44 | Win7Mac | Too bad to see last council meeting basically was a waste of time. I already raised this topic over a week ago: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-05-12.log.html#t2013-05-12T22:48:04 |
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| 23:40.30 | Win7Mac | Also part XII. AMENDMENTS seems quite uncomfortable |