| 00:00.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/acb/cab/ |
| 00:01.23 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (5472b26f@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 00:01.44 | merlin1991 | fsckd desktop session went mad and stopped tkaing keyboard iput |
| 00:01.45 | muelli | okay. it's 0.06 Ohm from GND to GND. And 0.09 from 5V to 5V. |
| 00:01.53 | muelli | Cable 5V to test pin 5V that is. |
| 00:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | that sounds all fine |
| 00:04.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and still your N900 doesn't power up when plugging it to charger or PC? |
| 00:05.23 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: yes. nothing. I am used to a small vibratoin and all. |
| 00:05.32 | muelli | but the USB connection seems to be dead. |
| 00:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you have a linux PC? |
| 00:06.20 | muelli | sure |
| 00:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | type: |
| 00:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | in root session |
| 00:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | less +F /var/log/messages |
| 00:07.12 | muelli | FTR: If I put the battery in, it will boot. |
| 00:07.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 00:07.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it shouldn't, usually |
| 00:07.54 | muelli | the phone itself works fine. It's just USB that's broken. |
| 00:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | less +F /var/log/messages |
| 00:08.22 | muelli | well. it doesn't boot boot. It vibrates, shows the Nokia screen and then turns off after a short while. |
| 00:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeek |
| 00:10.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, have to leave now |
| 00:10.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is too slow to finish it this evening |
| 00:11.57 | muelli | :-\ |
| 00:12.00 | muelli | damn :( |
| 00:12.07 | muelli | thanks for the help anyway. |
| 00:12.13 | muelli | I could call! |
| 00:12.17 | muelli | like phone... |
| 00:12.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you manage evetually to start less +F /var/log/messages, then plug in powered down N900 with battery inserted and see if that results in any output on PC |
| 00:13.01 | muelli | sure, one sec. |
| 00:13.27 | muelli | hm.. interesting |
| 00:13.28 | muelli | it works. |
| 00:13.31 | muelli | May 17 02:13:10 ideabox kernel: [24165.595797] usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_phonet |
| 00:13.32 | muelli | etc |
| 00:14.01 | muelli | weird |
| 00:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not powered down phone |
| 00:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been still powered up |
| 00:15.24 | muelli | well. only the battery is in. I haven't pushed a button, display all dark |
| 00:15.44 | muelli | and.. it charges now... wtf |
| 00:18.30 | muelli | hm. weird. the charger might be bad... dafuq |
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| 00:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | 99% of noname chargers lack the D+- short |
| 00:19.43 | muelli | hmpf. |
| 00:20.11 | muelli | but the other n900 works with that charger. and it *did* with my current N900 just until it stopped working with that very charger. |
| 00:20.31 | muelli | and two chargers don't work, PC and one other charger does. *mumbling* |
| 00:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I suspect a bent contact in your USB plug or receptacle |
| 00:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | or actually a broken USB receptacle that has intermittent contact on some of the 4 relevant pins |
| 00:22.11 | muelli | hm. and now one chargers that worked a minute ago doesn't anymore, but laptop does... O_o |
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| 05:10.07 | stardiviner | How to connect to Maemo SSH server from a linux computer ? (I have started maemo ssh server with $ sudo /etc/init.d/ssh start) [What's the default name@server in Maemo ?] |
| 05:10.28 | stardiviner | ^^^ |
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| 05:26.25 | stardiviner | I know how to do that know. Found default info "user@IP" now. |
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| 08:27.35 | Apic | A splendid good Morning to You all. |
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| 08:39.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | good morning Apic |
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| 08:46.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I publicly state that Hildon Foundation Council so far failed miserably to even *start* on BoD election process support. Like discussing and publishing BoD election rules. I pushed several times but with no result or feedback. I officially announce that I can't continue keeping track of all that and I quit my efforts to keep that HiFo stuff on rail and running |
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| 08:49.48 | XATRIX | Guys, there's a 'U-boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1' update i can see in FAM |
| 08:49.53 | XATRIX | Is it ok to install ? |
| 08:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I don't think you should use fapman to unstall uBoot |
| 08:50.36 | XATRIX | Hm |
| 08:50.52 | XATRIX | only through slowpok HAM ? |
| 08:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | *particularly* *especially* uBoot (which is a kernel as well) is not meant to get installed by anything but HAM (or apt-get) |
| 08:53.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I couldn't think of any package that's more deprecated to get installed via fapman |
| 09:06.06 | divVerent | where can I find more exact info on what HAM does that apt does not, when installing packages? |
| 09:06.13 | divVerent | as in: which source file? |
| 09:07.48 | divVerent | other than suspending/killing apps in some cases |
| 09:09.31 | divVerent | basically, I want to see which specific logic for mp-*-pr packages exists |
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| 09:23.03 | unclouded_ | is there a way to disable the hardware watchdog using i2cset? |
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| 10:07.26 | Chewtoy | Hi. I have a n810 an recently bought a bluetooth headset for it. It can change the volume on the n810, so it can send keypresses to it. However, the headset has some more keys that currently doesn't do anything. I wanted to map them so I installed xev to see what the keycodes were. Nothing shows up, not even the keys that can control the volume. Question: How do I find out what keycodes the headset has? |
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| 10:27.53 | chem|st | Chewtoy: that might show with bluetooth debugging (I have no clue but I guess it is the BTstack doing the called directly without bothering of keyevents) , not sure you ever get keypresses from a headset |
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| 10:32.02 | MrPingu_TUD | Hi |
| 10:32.51 | MrPingu_TUD | freemangordon: Been using your thumb dosbox build for some time and I have not seen a decrease in performance |
| 10:33.04 | MrPingu_TUD | Too bad dosbox doesn't allow to measure FPS :/ |
| 10:35.26 | MrPingu_TUD | For anyone else, my second N900 doesn't recognize uSD because missing magnet but where is the actual sensor for that? |
| 10:48.06 | MrPingu_TUD | And would dissecting an old headphone deliver me a good magnet for this? |
| 10:54.17 | Chewtoy | chem|st: I'm not all used to bluetooth (this is my first device connecting with it), how would the debugging be done? |
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| 11:43.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: there's no specific logic behind mp-*-pr, it's just that this is a metapackage that pulls in ~100% of system incl core apps like camera a.s.o as dependencies. And HAM doesn't show those "system" packages to user, neither for update nor for installing or uninstalling. |
| 11:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclouded_: probably, but that's tricky |
| 11:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Chewtoy: probably not, the magnet is even smaller than those found in headsets, I'd guess. The magnet is the one that holds kickstand into position as well |
| 11:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Chewtoy: which also answers your question where sensor is located |
| 11:45.54 | chem|st | Chewtoy: is uinput loaded? that is what is needed for multimedia keys to be recognized, for debugging: you need the debugging package for it and logging enabled |
| 11:46.17 | chem|st | (still no idea what is available for n810) |
| 11:46.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooops, |
| 11:46.28 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: I was mainly asking for more details why using apt-get for these system updates is not good |
| 11:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | mrpingu_gone ^^^^ |
| 11:46.50 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: until now, the only reason I know is that apt sometimes handles dependencies wrong (then fails), or does not suspend/kill possibly affected applications |
| 11:47.06 | chem|st | divVerent: apt pulls in packages not ment for your system setup |
| 11:47.07 | divVerent | both issues I could live with, basically would mean I better should reboot after updating these via apt (if it allowed me to do it at all) |
| 11:47.13 | divVerent | like which? |
| 11:47.20 | divVerent | also, HAM also "just talks to apt-worker" |
| 11:47.26 | divVerent | apt-get upgrade BTW never pulls additional packages |
| 11:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can use apt-get install for those system updates, basically HAM does as well |
| 11:47.29 | divVerent | only dist-upgrade does |
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| 11:47.47 | chem|st | loading newer packages where someone missed to set proper dependencies |
| 11:47.50 | divVerent | but that means that IF extra packages are needed, apt-get upgrade will fail (or show them as kept back) |
| 11:47.59 | divVerent | chem|st: and how does HAM handle this same case different? |
| 11:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're not supposed to use apt-get upgrade, since - as mentioned above - the only package that gets upgraded by HAM is mp-*-pr |
| 11:48.27 | chem|st | ham does install what is in mp |
| 11:48.32 | divVerent | so does apt |
| 11:48.48 | divVerent | Ubuntu uses a metapackage too and it "works" there (namely, ubuntu-desktop) |
| 11:49.02 | divVerent | HAM indeed hides the "other" packages, while apt shows them |
| 11:49.22 | chem|st | can you just live with "don't"? |
| 11:49.26 | divVerent | I want to know why |
| 11:49.30 | divVerent | and no, I can't |
| 11:49.33 | divVerent | because HAM is so awfully slow |
| 11:49.47 | chem|st | because you may brake dependencies of things |
| 11:49.55 | divVerent | why? apt doesn't do that on debian |
| 11:49.58 | divVerent | so why does it on maemo |
| 11:50.03 | divVerent | I basically want a technical answer |
| 11:50.04 | chem|st | lol |
| 11:50.14 | divVerent | basically, I want to know what EXACTLY HAM does better there |
| 11:50.16 | chem|st | it does on debian as well... have you ever tried sid? |
| 11:50.19 | divVerent | yes |
| 11:50.21 | divVerent | so? |
| 11:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: simply put: HAM won't upgrade packages that are in mp-*-pr, apt-get upgrade will |
| 11:50.34 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ah, now I see |
| 11:50.44 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: but mp-*-pr has fixed version dependencies on these |
| 11:50.57 | chem|st | no packages NOT in mp |
| 11:50.58 | divVerent | so apt will also not upgrade them (but dist-upgrade then MIGHT do wrong by offering to remove mp-*-pr and then upgrading the packages) |
| 11:51.22 | divVerent | dist-upgrade is right out and I understand that |
| 11:51.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM will not upgrade *any* system packages |
| 11:51.35 | chem|st | apt updates all packages installed to newest version if there arent dependencies set |
| 11:51.39 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ok, but why is it bad to upgrade them? |
| 11:51.51 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: and how would I upgrade them if I want to? |
| 11:51.55 | divVerent | like, a CSSU upgrade |
| 11:51.58 | chem|st | because some lazy bitches did not set dependencies right |
| 11:51.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | because there may be incompatible new versions |
| 11:52.07 | divVerent | isn't that normally set by package dependencies? |
| 11:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or that ^^^ |
| 11:52.23 | chem|st | usually is not maemo! |
| 11:52.25 | divVerent | but ok... then basically, that means I can use apt if I make sure these packages are "held" |
| 11:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia decided they don't need comprehensive set of dependencies |
| 11:52.34 | divVerent | but I am on CSSU |
| 11:52.35 | chem|st | divVerent: yes |
| 11:52.38 | divVerent | so the -pr package is not by Nokia |
| 11:52.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's still heritage |
| 11:52.54 | divVerent | and still broken deps there... ok |
| 11:53.06 | chem|st | not anymore but it is always hell of a thing to update properly |
| 11:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I constantly push to get rid of mp-*-pr completely, in CSSU |
| 11:53.17 | divVerent | ok, thanks, that was a good answer now... |
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| 11:53.31 | divVerent | so basically, when using apt, I should set these packages to "never update automatically" |
| 11:53.39 | divVerent | and if I want an upgrade to them anyway if available, I can manually check for that |
| 11:53.48 | divVerent | by package name I usually know the impact of the change |
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| 11:54.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:54.18 | divVerent | I go throught he list manually anyway when using apt |
| 11:54.24 | divVerent | and am very careful when I see anything system relevant |
| 11:54.26 | XATRIX | Cant update U-boot with kernek |
| 11:54.41 | divVerent | the list is short anyway, as I do it whenever I get that notify icon ;) |
| 11:54.42 | chem|st | divVerent: even not system relevant can break it... |
| 11:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can use apt-get install --force-reinstall 8or whatever) to upgrade particular packages, if you know your stuff |
| 11:54.47 | XATRIX | It tells me !!!U-Boot with kernel ... breaks the 3rd party package policy |
| 11:54.51 | divVerent | chem|st: how so? |
| 11:54.55 | XATRIX | Any way to update it ? |
| 11:54.59 | divVerent | chem|st: if it breaks the system, it IS system relevant |
| 11:55.05 | divVerent | I know this also includes e.g. libcurl |
| 11:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you however never should use apt-get upgrade |
| 11:55.09 | chem|st | because the watchdog does think something is wrong... |
| 11:55.28 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: I still don't get it. With manualy reviewing the list it really should be ok |
| 11:55.35 | divVerent | is the same as running install on them package by package |
| 11:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:55.51 | divVerent | and yes, I do claim I usually see if a package is problematic possibly |
| 11:56.12 | divVerent | e.g. anyting qt related I better make sure have a backup before upgrading, or libc, or other lowlevel libs probably many packages use |
| 11:56.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you completely understood the implications and are free to act like an educated expert now ;-) |
| 11:56.34 | chem|st | divVerent: some stuff I know from desktop to be not relevant to boot to X is indeed relevant for maemo like msging interface and stuff |
| 11:56.34 | divVerent | ok |
| 11:56.42 | divVerent | chem|st: I know |
| 11:56.48 | divVerent | like the browserd stuff is needed for messaging too :P |
| 11:56.53 | chem|st | if anything is hung at boot time for longer than 5 seconds you get a reboot |
| 11:56.59 | divVerent | sure |
| 11:57.05 | divVerent | that's what the backup and backupmenu are for ;) |
| 11:57.19 | divVerent | only busybox, libc or kernel stuff really can break backupmenu |
| 11:57.35 | divVerent | busybox probably the most dangerous part there ;) |
| 11:57.45 | divVerent | I was quite wary on every busybox-power upgrade, for example |
| 11:57.49 | chem|st | most dangerous part ever, for some reason |
| 11:57.53 | divVerent | (and then after the upgrade immediately checked if busybox still works) |
| 11:57.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought BM keeps its own local messybox copy? |
| 11:58.11 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: /sbin/preinit though... is a shell script |
| 11:58.20 | divVerent | and run by the busybox shell or even bash |
| 11:58.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 11:58.36 | divVerent | so if THAT breaks, everything is broken |
| 11:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:59.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily it seems preinit is bash-proof |
| 11:59.17 | divVerent | what I do on these upgrades is checking if I still can open shells and run busybox stuff after upgrade |
| 11:59.18 | XATRIX | Updated u-boot via Fapman, now it even boots a bit faster |
| 11:59.28 | XATRIX | a few seconds less |
| 11:59.31 | divVerent | if that fails, I still have good chances to get the old binary back BEFORE rebooting ;) |
| 12:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: I told you not to use fucking fapman for uBoot. Please stop cheering/bitching on it now here |
| 12:00.32 | divVerent | what is fapman anyway ;) |
| 12:00.35 | divVerent | another GUI for apt? |
| 12:00.48 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: HAM was unable to update... |
| 12:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | a poor feature-neutered HAM replacement |
| 12:01.01 | divVerent | then I won#t touch it |
| 12:01.27 | divVerent | HAM is for "I want to use apt, but have someone to point fingers at when it breaks"... and apt is "lowlevel I want something FAST" |
| 12:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, a glorified GUI frontend to plain apt-get |
| 12:01.34 | divVerent | (and also "my fault if it breaks") |
| 12:01.40 | divVerent | now fapman is... probably neither of that |
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| 12:02.09 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: then how can it be worse than apt itself in handling upgrades? |
| 12:02.17 | divVerent | of course, exchanging kernels is... possibly deadly |
| 12:02.30 | divVerent | when I do kernel-power upgrades via apt, I make SURE I read the log ;) |
| 12:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: it does stuff like apt-get autoremove |
| 12:02.37 | divVerent | now that's wtf |
| 12:02.44 | divVerent | I mean, I "do" that too, but using deborphan |
| 12:02.50 | divVerent | but really only manually removing |
| 12:02.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | fails on running postinst scripts correctly, etc |
| 12:02.58 | MrPingu_TUD | DocScrutinizer05, yeah had to go |
| 12:03.01 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: how can it fail at THAT? |
| 12:03.03 | divVerent | dpkg does that part right |
| 12:03.05 | MrPingu_TUD | back partially ;) |
| 12:03.16 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: and yes, postinst script execution order is something I am very wary at |
| 12:03.29 | divVerent | e.g. if kernel-flasher's script ran before kernel-power's, I may be quite sure that something went wrong ;) |
| 12:03.34 | divVerent | on Arch Linux such things happened a lot to me |
| 12:03.47 | divVerent | mkinitcpio running before kernel upgrade -> modules and kernel don't match -> HAVE FUN |
| 12:04.00 | MrPingu_TUD | Anyway, I always read the log ;) |
| 12:04.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | in ham you can use some commands for pre/postinst that fail on shell and also in fapman |
| 12:04.13 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ah, THAT is nice info too |
| 12:04.28 | divVerent | e.g. because scripts require running with certain env vars the xterm does not provide |
| 12:04.46 | divVerent | but luckily these things normally appear in apt's output ;) |
| 12:04.55 | divVerent | so if that happens, retrying with HAM would be a good idea |
| 12:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, or rely on X being available etc |
| 12:05.03 | divVerent | that works after sudo gainroot |
| 12:05.11 | divVerent | and I had actually seen use of that before |
| 12:05.19 | divVerent | like, suddenly modal dialogs appearing during an apt-get run |
| 12:05.30 | divVerent | but it would fail when using ssh ;) |
| 12:05.33 | divVerent | (and apt from there) |
| 12:05.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 12:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 12:06.03 | divVerent | when I say I run apt, I always do so from the local xterm |
| 12:06.12 | divVerent | I mean, that's what the N900 is for... having a PROPER KEYBOARD ;) |
| 12:06.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk o/ |
| 12:06.35 | divVerent | cu |
| 12:07.02 | divVerent | need a N900 cloud app service haha |
| 12:07.07 | divVerent | stuff runnable via X forwarding :P |
| 12:07.23 | divVerent | I once tried LibreOffice forwarded via X11/SSH running on a server about 5ms away |
| 12:07.28 | divVerent | worked pretty well |
| 12:07.33 | divVerent | only menubar is tiny ;) |
| 12:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see last 200 lines XATRIX posts, you see HAM refused to install, since it detected problems. XATRIX decided to ignore those problems and override via fapman |
| 12:08.09 | divVerent | so it's pen-only basically |
| 12:08.23 | divVerent | does HAM even detect any problems apt would not? |
| 12:08.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's your guess, will it pan out? ;-P |
| 12:08.25 | divVerent | I know one can override ;) |
| 12:08.31 | divVerent | but THEN one has to be REALLY sure |
| 12:08.56 | divVerent | (in fact, I never override dep problems in apt... if I need a package and deps do not work, I rather extract to a separate dir via dpkg -x) |
| 12:09.02 | divVerent | that's BTW how I currently use deborphan |
| 12:09.13 | XATRIX | But it's working!!! |
| 12:09.21 | XATRIX | I mean, it's ok so far... |
| 12:09.39 | divVerent | let's see if your apt database now has internal problems preventing future upgrades ;) |
| 12:09.49 | divVerent | that's the normal outcome when forcing stuff with apt |
| 12:10.00 | XATRIX | HAM denied me to install u-boot becase it breaks some 3rd party licence shit |
| 12:10.06 | divVerent | force once, and you'll have to focce always in the future |
| 12:10.13 | XATRIX | that i don't actually give a shit to |
| 12:10.26 | divVerent | HAM doesn't deny stuff because of license |
| 12:10.44 | XATRIX | you wanna screenshot ? |
| 12:10.57 | divVerent | sure |
| 12:11.25 | XATRIX | Ok, then, give me a time to roll the system backup |
| 12:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably HAM already detected breakage done by former fapman installs |
| 12:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 12:13.48 | divVerent | thing is, forcing deps is REALLY bad, and basically kills apt and dpkg |
| 12:14.00 | divVerent | if you REALLY need to, rather extract the .deb and REMOVE the dep record |
| 12:14.02 | divVerent | then repack it |
| 12:14.12 | divVerent | then the dpkg database at least stays consistent ;) |
| 12:14.42 | divVerent | (and no, I don't see a reason why one would need to do that) |
| 12:14.49 | divVerent | dpkg -x FTW in such cases ;) |
| 12:14.51 | XATRIX | Ok , willl keep it in mind , for future crappy software ;) |
| 12:14.57 | XATRIX | like HAM ^^ |
| 12:15.06 | MrPingu_TUD | DocScrutinizer05: Still picking on fapman? :P |
| 12:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | see above |
| 12:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | mr XATRIX using fapman. mr XATRIX not being able to install uBoot via HAM, due to a nonsensical error message nobody else ever seen when installing uBoot on a clean system. mr XATRIX blaming HAM and continues using fapman |
| 12:17.56 | XATRIX | has a feeling that DocScrutinizer05 "has a tooth on him"... |
| 12:17.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually XATRIX reporting obscure bugs that nobody can reproduce or understand how they got introduced |
| 12:18.15 | MrPingu_TUD | I see, well fapman needs to be handled with care that for sure. |
| 12:18.23 | XATRIX | I'll repropduce this crap, give me a time to |
| 12:18.56 | MrPingu_TUD | Still, if you use fapman turn off the bloody autoremove |
| 12:19.03 | XATRIX | I hope backupmenu will restore everything, including u-boot ^^ |
| 12:19.19 | MrPingu_TUD | Backupmenu doesn't restore kernel partition |
| 12:19.29 | XATRIX | :( |
| 12:19.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will move you right into bootloop |
| 12:20.19 | MrPingu_TUD | u-boot is kernel-partition, so.... no go. ;) |
| 12:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | since kernel modules restored by BM are not compatible with kernel/uBoot that got NOT resored |
| 12:21.02 | XATRIX | I'm already started restore :( So, i can't cancel it |
| 12:21.20 | XATRIX | It will make my device UNBOOTABLE! |
| 12:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so good luck |
| 12:21.26 | MrPingu_TUD | DocScrutinizer05: Can you answer my question above before I had to leave? |
| 12:22.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I answered all your questions, alas I addressed the incorrectly, to err Chewtoy |
| 12:22.18 | MrPingu_TUD | XATRIX, just flash the brick end of mess -> happy system ;) Unless your usb is broken |
| 12:22.44 | XATRIX | MrDoublesite: i have no flashing stuff here... only AC charger :) |
| 12:22.49 | XATRIX | Everything is at home |
| 12:22.58 | MrPingu_TUD | That sucks |
| 12:23.04 | XATRIX | That is :( |
| 12:23.05 | divVerent | XATRIX: have the error message with license? |
| 12:23.10 | divVerent | "". |
| 12:23.13 | divVerent | "". |
| 12:23.16 | XATRIX | yes |
| 12:23.42 | divVerent | pic/quote? |
| 12:23.51 | XATRIX | booting |
| 12:23.53 | divVerent | sorry, connection is mobile ;) |
| 12:24.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: immediately re-install uBoot after restore finished. Your best bet to avvoid bootloop |
| 12:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you already booting |
| 12:24.27 | XATRIX | Currently i'm booted in :) Evrything is ok so far :) |
| 12:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it's too late |
| 12:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | good, lucky you |
| 12:24.46 | XATRIX | I'm in a system |
| 12:24.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | your uBoot and former kernel modules are compatible then |
| 12:25.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so nothing to worry |
| 12:25.07 | XATRIX | I hope it's a state where i did backup, before i updated u-boot via FAM |
| 12:25.19 | MrPingu_TUD | whoa, you're really lucky ^^ |
| 12:25.22 | XATRIX | ;) |
| 12:25.25 | XATRIX | I'am |
| 12:25.46 | XATRIX | Now, let's ask HAM to update and give me a crappy message of |
| 12:26.19 | MrPingu_TUD | off-topic; someone handy with SPSS? |
| 12:27.49 | divVerent | XATRIX: good, looking forwrd to screenshot ;) |
| 12:29.09 | MrPingu_TUD | DocScrutinizer05: By chance can you answer my question question before I had to leave, about an hour ago? |
| 12:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I answered all your questions, alas I addressed the incorrectly, to err Chewtoy |
| 12:29.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | the heck! |
| 12:29.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-17 14:21:26] <MrPingu_TUD> DocScrutinizer05: Can you answer my question above before I had to leave? |
| 12:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-17 14:22:17] <DocScrutinizer05> I answered all your questions, alas I addressed the incorrectly, to err Chewtoy |
| 12:30.19 | MrPingu_TUD | oh , I though that sentence was adressed to XATRIX :P |
| 12:30.27 | MrPingu_TUD | Will read log again |
| 12:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-17 13:45:23] <DocScrutinizer05> Chewtoy: probably not, the magnet is even smaller than those found in headsets, I'd guess. The magnet is the one that holds kickstand into position as well |
| 12:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-17 13:45:46] <DocScrutinizer05> Chewtoy: which also answers your question where sensor is located |
| 12:31.23 | MrPingu_TUD | Yeah got that ;) |
| 12:31.32 | MrPingu_TUD | Hmm where to get such small magnet then? |
| 12:31.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest cutting down a fridge magnet |
| 12:32.21 | MrPingu_TUD | Not able to mount SD sucks hard time, dying to try out Arch :P |
| 12:32.36 | MrPingu_TUD | Thanks |
| 12:33.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also heard HDD have nice strong small magnets |
| 12:33.51 | XATRIX | Give me 5 sec, there're will be a pics |
| 12:33.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might be able to dremel down those to the size you need |
| 12:33.57 | MrPingu_TUD | Hmm we don't have a 'sticky' fridge so need to get them from someone else ^^ |
| 12:34.33 | MrPingu_TUD | HDD, plenty of them here (: |
| 12:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.victorystore.com/bumper/magnetic.htm |
| 12:37.32 | MrPingu_TUD | Thanks, enough magnets to find ^^ |
| 12:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a04/mv/kq/start-own-magnetic-sticker-business-800x800.jpg |
| 12:37.50 | divVerent | now you can build your own troll car |
| 12:38.07 | divVerent | combine with flashlight for troll time machine |
| 12:39.16 | XATRIX | divVerent: http://imgur.com/a/wOXkP#0 |
| 12:39.17 | XATRIX | ;) |
| 12:40.09 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 12:40.58 | MrPingu_TUD | XATRIX: I don't see anything unusual |
| 12:41.44 | XATRIX | MrPingu_TUD: the last pic shows you that i can't install it |
| 12:42.33 | MrPingu_TUD | Can't you press before installing something like details? |
| 12:43.21 | divVerent | XATRIX: googled it |
| 12:43.24 | divVerent | talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29752 |
| 12:43.41 | divVerent | basically means no license but a stability issue |
| 12:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah POLICY *not LICENCE |
| 12:44.26 | divVerent | you now had to upgrade cssu packages to a not yet tested version |
| 12:44.43 | divVerent | you are a beta tester now, XATRIX |
| 12:44.55 | MrPingu_TUD | Press that and then go to problems tab - or is that for system upgrades only? |
| 12:45.14 | divVerent | MrPingu_TUD: it explained the problem already |
| 12:45.16 | divVerent | ;) |
| 12:45.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | this means HAM detected that a system package you tried to install is not from a trusted domain |
| 12:45.26 | divVerent | it is no conflict per se |
| 12:45.40 | MrPingu_TUD | Red pill mode ^^ |
| 12:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or proper setup of your catalogs |
| 12:46.32 | divVerent | docscrutinizer: i thought it means versions |
| 12:47.38 | *** join/#maemo fmunozs (~fmunozs@pdpc/supporter/active/fmunozs) |
| 12:47.45 | divVerent | that "policy" is probably rather the package version listyou told me about before |
| 12:48.00 | divVerent | by which ham refuses to do single package upgrades of system |
| 12:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM refuses to isntall system packages from untrusted domains (the "500" showing up in apt-cache policy output afaik |
| 12:48.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ) |
| 12:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | this "500" is the trustlevel of the source domain |
| 12:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | if an installed package has an origin of higher trustlevel than the new version you try to install, HAM will refuse |
| 12:49.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and throw this error message |
| 12:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | in red pill mode you can instruct HAM to "ignore 3rd party policy" or sth like that |
| 12:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | recently Nokia repos had they cert expired, which makes the domain not trustworthy anymore, so installing stuff from Nokia repo that already is installed witll not work via HAM |
| 12:51.54 | *** join/#maemo goldkatze (~nobody@unaffiliated/goldkatze) |
| 12:52.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt doe know shit about trusted domains and trustlevels |
| 12:53.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw the above is the root rationale why we had to invent CSSU |
| 12:53.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since CSSU isntalls other trusted domains |
| 12:55.09 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@178.76.208.218) |
| 12:55.13 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: yes, and HAM reject the install |
| 12:55.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the reason why CSSU can install stuff like ke-recv which you couldn't install cleanly via extras repo |
| 12:55.24 | XATRIX | It DOESN'T want to install it |
| 12:56.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: hell, then use commandline and apt-get or dpkg to install, instead fapman ;-) |
| 12:56.33 | XATRIX | I thought fapman is a GUI to cli apt-get or dpkg |
| 12:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, a terrible GUi that does stuff you'd never do on commandline, like apt-get autoremove |
| 12:58.03 | XATRIX | I simply can disable it |
| 12:58.14 | XATRIX | But it's much more faster than crappy HAM |
| 12:58.29 | XATRIX | That even doesn't want to update !! my software :) |
| 12:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you simply can disable 3rd party ploicy checks in HAM as well |
| 12:58.36 | XATRIX | O_o |
| 12:58.38 | XATRIX | how |
| 12:58.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~redpill |
| 12:58.45 | infobot | rumour has it, redpill is http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode |
| 12:59.06 | MrPingu_TUD | no, I believe fapman introduces it's own commands. Not just apt-get |
| 12:59.11 | XATRIX | I don't think it's a good idea to enable developers mode :) |
| 12:59.18 | MrPingu_TUD | fapt-get, IIRC |
| 12:59.35 | XATRIX | fap-getman |
| 12:59.37 | XATRIX | :) |
| 12:59.39 | MrPingu_TUD | not sure |
| 12:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think it's a good idea to use fapman |
| 13:00.24 | MrPingu_TUD | If you don't EXACTLY knowing what you are doing, I agree |
| 13:00.27 | XATRIX | Yea, it's better to sit hours over handset, waiting for HAM to be 'released' from hanging |
| 13:00.33 | muellisoft | what's the cell button battery model for the BIOS on the n900? The n900 loses time and date whenever I replace the battery. |
| 13:00.58 | MrPingu_TUD | XATRIX: Apt-get is faster than HAM ^^ |
| 13:00.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat |
| 13:00.58 | infobot | methinks bupbat is http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months |
| 13:01.14 | Muelli | cool |
| 13:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 13:01.38 | MrPingu_TUD | and FAM too |
| 13:01.42 | XATRIX | MrPingu_TUD: sure, but it requires me to use shell, that sometimes is not handy :) |
| 13:01.44 | Muelli | as for the charging weirdness: It only charges reliably on a PC. Not on a regular charger. |
| 13:02.27 | MrPingu_TUD | XATRIX: the N900 has hardware keyboard I see no problems for simple commands like apt-get |
| 13:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | regular charger missing D+- short, use Nokia charger! |
| 13:02.48 | XATRIX | MrPingu_TUD: keyboard O_O ? |
| 13:02.51 | XATRIX | ^^ |
| 13:03.33 | MrPingu_TUD | DocScrutinizer05: Can my original N900 kill batteries of other phones? :P |
| 13:03.37 | Muelli | yeah, I don't have one handy. But the other n900 works with all the other chargers that don't work with the broken one. |
| 13:03.42 | MrPingu_TUD | *N900 charger |
| 13:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu_TUD: no |
| 13:04.09 | MrPingu_TUD | Ah coincidence then |
| 13:04.13 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: so basically, HAM has its own replacement for /etc/apt/preferences |
| 13:04.44 | MrPingu_TUD | but is it only me that thinks 1200mah is pretty high for a charger, all other phones have like 800 |
| 13:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Muelli: I already explained to you that the D+- short detection is done in software, and that there's alternative software that doesn't need that short to start charging |
| 13:04.51 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: that is good info ;) |
| 13:04.58 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: it also gives me a good idea of how to make apt use 100% safe |
| 13:05.13 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: simply set the community and nokia repos to a REALLY low pin-priority |
| 13:06.13 | divVerent | (that might have to be undone when actually upgrading via HAM, though) |
| 13:06.33 | divVerent | alternatively, first running apt in download-only mode and watching if the URLs are all from extras ;) |
| 13:06.36 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dlan@117.144.17.123) |
| 13:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: the problem is that fools shipped stuff like err libc6 via extras repo, in an incompatible new version |
| 13:08.08 | divVerent | ah, that is interesting |
| 13:08.22 | divVerent | so it'd be better to rather up-pin the currently installed versions ;) |
| 13:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we seen similar problems with qt stuff |
| 13:08.32 | divVerent | or maybe create my own metapackage depending on the exact versions in CSSU |
| 13:08.53 | divVerent | or... actually |
| 13:08.54 | Muelli | FWIW: the mouser.com PDF link in ~bupbat is dead |
| 13:08.57 | divVerent | is this logic even in HAM itself? |
| 13:09.21 | divVerent | in the GUI tool? |
| 13:09.32 | divVerent | or is it rather something oen of those helper programs does? |
| 13:09.39 | divVerent | (which then maybe could be used instead of command-like apt) |
| 13:10.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, rolling your own customized mp-commuity-pr is a viable method. Take care to not bump version higher than expected next official upgrade |
| 13:11.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's in GUI |
| 13:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but dunno actually |
| 13:13.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wishes he had time and motivation to tweak friggin mp-community-pr to allow coexistance with procps |
| 13:13.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't update ever since I installed procps, since new mp-community-pr comflict |
| 13:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart busybox |
| 13:14.16 | infobot | nukes busybox with a single large nuke |
| 13:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, while bashing messybox: just occurs to me that messybox-power most likely will come with additional new conflicts to stuff that sane people already installed on their system from clean core utils. So including messybox-power will break update-ability of CSSU for all those who have stuff like find-utils or swapon or whatever installed in their system |
| 13:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | so forget about busybox-power ver will replace busybox in CSSU |
| 13:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever even |
| 13:20.10 | MrPingu_TUD | Would love to see a bash only shell on maemo :P |
| 13:20.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | right |
| 13:20.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | messybox been a terrible choice from very beginning |
| 13:20.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 13:20.50 | infobot | rumour has it, messybox is In reality, busybox is swiss army knife of embedded linux. Experienced users could achieve everything fat shells provide, without wasting precious (in embedded systems) resources. Lack of education about ash usage leads to ~busybox-hater, though. |
| 13:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF??? |
| 13:21.12 | MrPingu_TUD | ~busybox-hater |
| 13:21.12 | infobot | busybox-hater is probably equivalent of those folks, that don't get why you're carrying only swiss army knife and flint. After all, machete, flamethrower and tuned porshe are portable enough to fit in pocket. |
| 13:21.36 | MrPingu_TUD | dafuq? |
| 13:21.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~factinfo messybox |
| 13:21.39 | infobot | messybox -- created by DocScrutinizer51 <~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue Sep 28 16:37:20 2010 (961 days); last modified at Sat Mar 30 18:43:15 2013 by Estel_!~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-; it has been requested 82 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 49s ago. |
| 13:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IDIOT!!!! |
| 13:21.59 | MrPingu_TUD | Didn't thought it was him, |
| 13:22.04 | MrPingu_TUD | who would have guessed that? |
| 13:22.15 | MrPingu_TUD | :P |
| 13:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ignore estel_ |
| 13:22.22 | infobot | error: chan #maemo is invalid. |
| 13:22.35 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 13:23.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'd like to ban estel from freenode |
| 13:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | for his constant violation of common rules |
| 13:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | like not altering factoids you don't own |
| 13:24.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | this asshole ruins infobot for everybody |
| 13:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed the worst troll I ever seen |
| 13:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget busybox-hater |
| 13:26.07 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot busybox-hater |
| 13:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget busybox |
| 13:26.15 | infobot | i forgot busybox, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:26.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget busybox |
| 13:26.27 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'busybox'. Have fun now. |
| 13:26.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal messybox |
| 13:26.40 | infobot | "messybox" is "In reality, busybox is swiss army knife of embedded linux. Experienced users could achieve everything fat shells provide, without wasting precious (in embedded systems) resources. Lack of education about ash usage leads to ~busybox-hater, though." |
| 13:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget messybox |
| 13:26.53 | infobot | i forgot messybox, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:27.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget messybox |
| 13:27.03 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'messybox'. Have fun now. |
| 13:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal messybox |
| 13:27.07 | infobot | "messybox" is "In reality, busybox is swiss army knife of embedded linux. Experienced users could achieve everything fat shells provide, without wasting precious (in embedded systems) resources. Lack of education about ash usage leads to ~busybox-hater, though." |
| 13:27.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget messybox |
| 13:27.13 | infobot | i forgot messybox, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 13:29.23 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.213.127) |
| 13:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: messybox is messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 13:30.35 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 13:30.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock messybox |
| 13:30.44 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: locking factoid messybox |
| 13:38.18 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.143.170.98) |
| 13:48.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | on messybox: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-24.log.html#t2011-07-24T06:03:52 |
| 13:49.17 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.183.176) |
| 13:53.22 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: My last awk in script crashed (and killed shell) in busybox |
| 13:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | is not surprised |
| 13:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | back when messybox-sed failed on me, I spent a day or more to craft an actually useful function/package for harmattan. alas it tested the script that was doing the relevant stuff only on PC and made sure it didn't have any bashisms, so I hoped it would work on N900 as well, for *all* users. Turned out messybox got in the way, rendering my work a pile of useless shit |
| 13:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it was about getting automatic enum and mount on H-E-N kernels |
| 14:00.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 14:01.00 | *** join/#maemo Raimu (rmaunula@tuomi.oulu.fi) |
| 14:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | gave me the proper real harmattan feeling, where you run into similar issues of "it doesn't work like this, since this is not debian (or any sane linux), this is HARM) on 80..95% of your projects |
| 14:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | finding same effect in fremantle, due to messybox, didn't help to make me friend of messybox in any way |
| 14:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 14:04.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | cya later on meeting, where I officially announce a 3 months offtime, or rather a permanent resignation from that inofficial "the guy who's pushing stuff" role |
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| 19:08.05 | thedead1440 | ~ping |
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| 20:08.42 | Pali | guys, what are you going to do with google cripled jabber accounts? google is going to cut connection between google's and jabber's worlds |
| 20:08.51 | Pali | so it will be like facebook |
| 20:10.48 | Pali | not possible to chat between @gmail and @jabber accounts |
| 20:16.20 | Sc0rpius | when that happens, we'll see. |
| 20:17.00 | Sc0rpius | I guess the new GTalk protocol will not be open |
| 20:20.01 | Pali | Sc0rpius: you will be able to conenct to new GTalk protocol via XMPP |
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| 20:20.16 | Pali | but you will not be able to chat with non gmail contacts |
| 20:24.18 | Sc0rpius | oh really? |
| 20:24.41 | Sc0rpius | then we're fine :) I wonder how many people connect to Gtalk to chat to ther Jabber accounts? |
| 20:24.48 | Sc0rpius | something like 0.056% of Gtalk users. |
| 20:25.19 | Sc0rpius | actually I even didn't know that was possible. |
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| 20:30.04 | Pali | Sc0rpius: you really do not have any non gmail friends in your contact list? |
| 20:33.24 | Sc0rpius | nope |
| 20:33.27 | Sc0rpius | why would I? |
| 20:33.41 | Sc0rpius | and I don't even know anybody that uses Jabber |
| 20:34.20 | Sc0rpius | I only use 3 IMs: Skype, AIM and GTalk. Everybody I know has one of those 3 |
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| 20:57.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would I have any gtalk contacts? why skype? I honestly don't need that stuff, since there's IRC, jabber, SIP VoIP... |
| 20:59.52 | cehteh | i just have skype because its integrated on the n900 .. eventually i'll get rid of it |
| 21:00.40 | cehteh | some time ago i set up my own jabber server, way better for IM, no one snooping my conversations there |
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| 21:35.02 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: problem is that: google (til now) had real jabber server. so you from your own jabber server were able to write message to @gmail.com contact |
| 21:35.24 | Pali | but now google decided to cut connection between google's jabber server and other jabber servers |
| 21:35.38 | Sc0rpius | and why would anyone that's not running a business have a jabber server? |
| 21:35.53 | Sc0rpius | and not just an account in gmail server? |
| 21:36.11 | Pali | and why should have account on gmail server? |
| 21:36.29 | Pali | if already have account on other jabber server?? |
| 21:38.16 | Sc0rpius | you already have an account in the gmail server |
| 21:38.25 | Sc0rpius | you have a gmail address |
| 21:38.27 | Sc0rpius | convenience |
| 21:39.06 | Sc0rpius | if I tell my wife "create an account in a jabber server so I can IM you during the day" |
| 21:39.16 | Sc0rpius | will be the worst mistake I would ever make in my whole life |
| 21:43.26 | Pali | and so I should tell to all my friends "to create account on gmail.com because I want to chat with us"? |
| 21:43.34 | Pali | this is nonsense |
| 21:44.51 | Sc0rpius | all your friends have already Gmail accounts |
| 21:45.02 | Sc0rpius | who in this world doesn't have a gmail account? |
| 21:45.21 | Sc0rpius | I don't know ANYBODY without a @gmail.com address. |
| 21:45.37 | Win7Mac | you're lost... |
| 21:47.55 | Sc0rpius | and if all your friends have jabber accounts and you too then why do you need Google? |
| 21:47.59 | Sc0rpius | just use your servers. |
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| 21:50.18 | Sc0rpius | I think Google was forced to do the call |
| 21:50.34 | Sc0rpius | everybody is expecting GTalk to be something bigger and better than WhatsApp and Blackberry Messenger and all that shi |
| 21:50.35 | Sc0rpius | shit |
| 21:51.01 | Sc0rpius | and I don't think Google can do that without getting rid of Jabber and change the XMPP into something of their own |
| 21:51.15 | Sc0rpius | like WhatsApp (that's also XMPP but compressed and encrypted) |
| 21:51.49 | Sc0rpius | I'm wating for multimedia transfer, location sharing, contacts sharing, etc from GTalk from way too many time already |
| 21:51.54 | Sc0rpius | s/wating/waiting |
| 21:52.02 | Sc0rpius | too much |
| 21:52.11 | Sc0rpius | and Google obviously is losing the IM war |
| 21:52.21 | Sc0rpius | to WhatsApp, BBM, Line, Viber, etc. |
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| 22:03.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | dang, I forgot to tell infobot about "dumped by google" |
| 22:03.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | watts up |
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| 22:05.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | the battery monitor gadget for ebikes |
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| 22:21.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 22:21.57 | infobot | ~pong |
| 22:22.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | infobot: ping |
| 22:22.32 | infobot | ~pong |
| 22:27.31 | Win7Mac | bored? |
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| 23:30.37 | kerio | ~ping |
| 23:30.37 | infobot | ~pong |
| 23:30.42 | kerio | ~pong |
| 23:30.42 | infobot | ~ping |
| 23:30.45 | kerio | :D |
| 23:30.52 | kerio | ~botsnack |
| 23:30.52 | infobot | thanks, kerio |
| 23:30.55 | kerio | yw |
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| 23:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | not bored, just propagation delay of some 60s |
