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| 00:29.24 | AndrewX192 | M4rtinK2: yep, just as my old one won't charge at all |
| 00:29.32 | AndrewX192 | I'm going to see if I can fix it, but I'm doubtful |
| 00:33.51 | M4rtinK2 | AndrewX192: then, good luck ! :) |
| 00:33.56 | M4rtinK2 | & good night :) |
| 00:34.09 | AndrewX192 | M4rtinK2: night |
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| 05:38.41 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 06:24.18 | kerio | AndrewX192: well, now you *can* charge it |
| 06:24.30 | kerio | your new n900 is also a decent bl-5j charger |
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| 06:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 06:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
| 06:33.01 | Macer | hi |
| 06:33.12 | Macer | freenas..kicking ass :) |
| 06:33.44 | Macer | just received a bunch of replacement hardware for some miniitx atom based system i ordered... used it for 2 days and the zfs encryption maxed throughput to 15MB/s lol |
| 06:33.53 | Macer | with an AMD A8 it is 115MB/s :) |
| 06:36.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: my 1400mAh battery was calibrated by bq27k at a constant-ish 180mA draw to be 1600mAh |
| 06:36.43 | kerio | how can this be? |
| 06:37.02 | kerio | it has some 30-ish cycles on it |
| 06:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | no problem |
| 06:37.17 | kerio | do batteries grow? |
| 06:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, they usually don't |
| 06:37.33 | kerio | the 1400mAh measurement was also done at 180mA |
| 06:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but mAh is only one parameter |
| 06:37.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | mWh is a more precise unit |
| 06:38.12 | kerio | why don't we use that? |
| 06:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and cell chemistry varies a lot with temperature |
| 06:38.56 | kerio | right now, 5.2Wh |
| 06:39.10 | kerio | at 93% |
| 06:39.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, will my battery "shrink" in the winter then? |
| 06:39.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly |
| 06:39.49 | kerio | D: |
| 06:40.04 | kerio | damn chemistry |
| 06:40.17 | kerio | i want a bl-5j-shaped capacitor |
| 06:40.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | car batteries are known to "shrink" to maybe 10% of nominal capacity when it's very cold outside |
| 06:40.45 | kerio | really? :o |
| 06:40.49 | kerio | shrink *to*? |
| 06:41.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | a capacitor still has max 10% of a LiIon of sma e volume |
| 06:41.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, to 1/10 |
| 06:41.22 | kerio | damn |
| 06:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically all chemical primary energy does |
| 06:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | some cells are simply dead at -40°C, even when at 100% |
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| 06:43.27 | Macer | i think if you're somewhere where it is -40C you have bigger problems |
| 06:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 06:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you'd say "if you are somewhere where it is +140° you have big problems anyway" I would agree ;-P |
| 06:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | the good news: when you don't try to discharge a cell in cold hibernation, it usually recovers to full strength once it warms up again |
| 06:46.15 | Macer | well.. id on't know... -40C/F is like.. siberian tundra cold |
| 06:46.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw every decent thermal management / Battery Management (Entity) takes care of undertemp as well as overtemp |
| 06:47.12 | Macer | there's not too many places on earth that get that cold heh |
| 06:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: easily cured by a nice heating and a few good clothes |
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| 06:48.19 | Macer | lol.. if you say so... -20 is bad enough... -40 is brutal :) |
| 06:48.36 | Macer | http://www.tiptoptens.com/2011/04/30/10-coldest-places-in-the-world/ |
| 06:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: to return where this thread came from: a chemical cell doesn't switch to "off2 state when temp goes -39°->-40°C |
| 06:48.54 | Macer | although the 10th coldest place is still warmer ;) |
| 06:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | car batteries are pretty useless at -20°C as well |
| 06:49.41 | Macer | no way |
| 06:49.49 | Macer | that's 4F. car batteries run fine |
| 06:50.01 | Macer | it might take a bit more to start your car but still works fine |
| 06:50.07 | Macer | -4F |
| 06:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | never wondered why your car battery has ~50x overcapacity for what it would actually need to start the engine? |
| 06:50.55 | Macer | sure.. because of the cold ;) |
| 06:51.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 06:51.22 | Macer | but i can't say in chicago where sometimes temps reach -20 or more.. that my car ever had a problem actually starting |
| 06:51.30 | Macer | but i get the point heh |
| 06:51.49 | Macer | i dug up my su8w |
| 06:51.54 | Macer | i am going to connect it to my n900 soon |
| 06:52.06 | Macer | but the thing is a jinx. every time i do it my modem stops or a usb ports falls off :-/ |
| 06:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible. maybe a physical causality |
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| 06:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | applying excessive force to USB can not only make the receptacle come off PCB, it also may bend PCB to the point where modem chip solder joints snap open |
| 06:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | theoretically |
| 06:55.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | though my main suspect is excessive force applied to keyboard, and that in turn bends PCB and snaps modem chip off |
| 06:57.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 is *very* poor mechanical design regarding such issues |
| 06:58.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | a good design had used a dedicated 2nd PCB for the keyboard |
| 06:59.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | with steel enforcement beams |
| 07:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | or at *very* least a lot of support posts from backside of case to bottoms side (opposite side of keyboard) of PCB |
| 07:02.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | what you also can do as a PCB layouter is to mill a small gap around 3 of the 4 sides of the PCB location of a chip, but that's obviously not really an option when a kbd switch sits exactly on the opposite side of the PCB |
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| 07:43.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pity that my ambitions for Hollywood never panned out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-2uAOypbfg |
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| 07:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | (if I knew how to reproduce this oddity, I'd sell the progarm on OVI as "psychedelic lightshow") |
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| 07:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | (and no, I have *no* idea what's that music my N900 played, probably sth somebody gave to me in the pub) |
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| 11:01.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL! http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/2013/04/22/dumped-by-google/ why you should be vary to use those allegedly smart and free new services |
| 11:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | gmail? dafaq! |
| 11:08.48 | divVerent | haha... so? |
| 11:08.53 | divVerent | it's not like other companies are better there |
| 11:09.38 | divVerent | I am pretty sure anyone can disable my email account anywhere |
| 11:09.41 | divVerent | simply by bruteforcing it |
| 11:10.04 | divVerent | most providers disable account after $ALOT failures |
| 11:10.55 | divVerent | data stored in the cloud is not your data. Keep at least a copy on your own devices. |
| 11:12.43 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: google dumping gmail? |
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| 11:14.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | this chick edited a spreadsheet on google documents or whatever, with customer account data ans passwords, and google detected that and locked her complete google account. SERVES HER RIGHT! ;-P |
| 11:14.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for googling, I don't touch any google service with a 10ft-pole |
| 11:15.16 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: what do you use for MX DNS addresses? |
| 11:15.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and storing or even editing highly sensitive data in the cloud is as braindamaged as it gets |
| 11:15.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: ~6 different, none of them being google |
| 11:16.02 | jon_y | what services do you use? |
| 11:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | services? |
| 11:16.16 | jon_y | for MX |
| 11:16.24 | jon_y | otherwise, you can't get mail |
| 11:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | central services ;-D |
| 11:16.35 | jon_y | ? |
| 11:17.14 | jon_y | my only locked in data is gmail, but I have a pop3 copy locally of all the mails |
| 11:18.47 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: no MX address for you? |
| 11:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://admin-trac.openmoko.org/trac/wiki/services http://www.google.de/search?q=openmoko+%22central+services%22 |
| 11:19.34 | jon_y | hmm ok |
| 11:19.39 | jon_y | giving it a look |
| 11:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | another few are directly to my own server, then there's a web.de and a gmx.net account |
| 11:20.16 | jon_y | old cert is old |
| 11:20.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 11:21.13 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: I mean the SSL cert |
| 11:21.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know |
| 11:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | still, so what? |
| 11:21.48 | jon_y | which of them has gratis MX redirectors? |
| 11:22.07 | jon_y | so I can replace my gmail account with a local mail server |
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| 11:23.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably none |
| 11:24.09 | Veggen | I use gmail purely as a transport mechanism between google systems. |
| 11:24.26 | Veggen | but I'm old-fashioned and prefer running my own mailserver ;) |
| 11:24.26 | jon_y | it is strange why A type address redirectors is so easy to find |
| 11:24.38 | jon_y | eg no-ip |
| 11:25.07 | jon_y | Veggen: what MX address redirector do you use? |
| 11:25.29 | jon_y | heh, I'd like an AAAA with that |
| 11:25.53 | Veggen | jon_y: I have a virtual server in the cloud. I'm of course still a hostage to the terms of service of the vendor, but I'm at least a bit more in control. |
| 11:26.32 | Veggen | DNS-hosting is a free service that comes with the server in the cloud, and I can update my zones as I like. |
| 11:26.54 | Veggen | I use Linode (www.linode.com) |
| 11:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, http://hosting.1und1.de/domain-check |
| 11:27.14 | Veggen | and yes,of course I do a backup out of the cloud (home) |
| 11:27.16 | jon_y | eh cloud again? |
| 11:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | 0.29EUR / month |
| 11:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | cheaper than the "free" services like google and whatnot |
| 11:28.41 | jon_y | problem is, my ISP sucks connection wise |
| 11:28.47 | jon_y | random disconnects |
| 11:29.10 | Veggen | jon_y: I gave up on running my own server at home. |
| 11:29.13 | Veggen | Low WAF :) |
| 11:29.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I have several hosted servers |
| 11:29.19 | jon_y | so, self hosting is not perfect gmail replacement |
| 11:29.32 | jon_y | Veggen: WAF? |
| 11:29.39 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: rotated MX? |
| 11:29.44 | Veggen | Wife/Woman Acceptance Factor. |
| 11:29.52 | jon_y | oh |
| 11:30.16 | jon_y | wife didn't like all the cables on the floor? :) |
| 11:30.46 | Veggen | ..and the noise and the fact that it couldn't be turned completely off. |
| 11:30.57 | jon_y | *now zis is a computer!! |
| 11:31.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much :-P |
| 11:31.07 | jon_y | after she shows you her cellphone :) |
| 11:31.17 | jon_y | ironsky :) |
| 11:31.42 | Veggen | Oh, she's a computer person herself, but she likes computers that can be turned off at home, thanks! |
| 11:31.49 | jon_y | oh man, I have no idea what will happen if I do get married |
| 11:32.08 | jon_y | my study room desk is full of wires, computer is on 24/7 |
| 11:32.22 | Veggen | Now, I do have a fan-less and no-noise NAS at home, though. Which among other things, take backup of my server in the cloud :) |
| 11:32.27 | jon_y | exposed dekstop systems |
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| 11:32.59 | jon_y | multiple monitors next to each other |
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| 11:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, for as little as 10EUR/month you get an all-inclusive package like http://hosting.1und1.de/VirtualServerL?__lf=Order&linkOrigin=vserver&linkId=ct.btn.continue.l&ordernow=true |
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| 11:33.46 | Veggen | there's gonna be a bit more possibility for that. Daughter of my GF (we're not married) moved out, so now we have an extra room. |
| 11:35.20 | jon_y | Veggen: how do I preserve my hacker space? :) |
| 11:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather pay somebody for providing a vserver to me, rather than trusing in that google/cloud/webservices shit |
| 11:36.01 | Veggen | jon_y: Well. Depends whether you can confine it to a separate room which have a door that can be closed. |
| 11:36.19 | jon_y | yeah, it is a study room |
| 11:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a proper deal, i know what I'm paying for, in which currency, and I have my customer rights |
| 11:36.34 | jon_y | there is still a cable to the TV room |
| 11:36.42 | jon_y | for the raspberry Pi |
| 11:36.52 | Veggen | jon_y: There's more possibilities to be able to keep your stuff there. Living or sleeping room, there was no way :) |
| 11:37.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | with google and the like, I know I'm paying with my attention as they always try to mometize me on rather sneaky levels |
| 11:37.20 | Veggen | raspberry pi is small and does not make noise. The cable might need to be pretty. |
| 11:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | monetize* |
| 11:37.43 | jon_y | Veggen: it's on the floor, house has no builtin LAN |
| 11:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no rights whatsoever, see above link |
| 11:38.03 | jon_y | I guess I can put it up when I want to watch TV :) |
| 11:38.20 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: internet feudalism! |
| 11:38.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | all those fools who think internet is the new paradise where everything is for free |
| 11:38.25 | Veggen | DS: yah, I pay too. www.linode.com, which seems to be a bit more expensive than yours, but they provide good service. |
| 11:38.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck NO, nothing ever is for free |
| 11:38.57 | Veggen | Always when remeber: When a product is free, then you are the real product! |
| 11:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 11:39.39 | jon_y | exchange rate can be a bummer if you want quality products |
| 11:41.51 | jon_y | also, charges on foreign bank transfers |
| 11:42.10 | jon_y | they milk you dry on all the mini charges |
| 11:42.41 | jon_y | ended up apathetic after calculating the charges |
| 11:43.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we have a hetzner server you probably know very well about, and it's paid from Singapore by paypal |
| 11:43.31 | jon_y | hetzner? |
| 11:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_webspace/level4 |
| 11:44.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5 bucks/mo |
| 11:44.41 | *** join/#maemo agi (~agi@srv.inittab.org) |
| 11:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | (that's not what skeiron runs on) |
| 11:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 11:45.22 | jon_y | does paypal make any weird charges? |
| 11:45.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 11:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | a reasonable (still high) ~5% |
| 11:46.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be higher for low amounts |
| 11:46.16 | jon_y | hmm, maybe I can bypass local credit card companies |
| 11:46.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | look at hildonfoundation.org/donors |
| 11:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://hildonfoundation.org/supporters/ actually |
| 11:48.33 | jon_y | normally, what kind of bandwidth does a mail server require? |
| 11:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | zilch? |
| 11:49.01 | jon_y | hmm ok |
| 11:50.23 | *** part/#maemo agi (~agi@srv.inittab.org) |
| 11:52.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you probably can't beat that: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_webspace/level1 |
| 11:53.00 | jon_y | I guess so, I don't ever get 100GB of mails :) |
| 11:53.22 | jon_y | uh 10GB |
| 11:54.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | even that is hard to come any near, by email |
| 11:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd need 1000 mails of 10MB each |
| 11:55.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, 500, since you would fetch them too |
| 11:55.59 | jon_y | I do get more mails than that a month, but not off that size |
| 11:56.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | when somebody sends me email of 10+MB, he usually gets killed by me ;-P |
| 11:56.54 | jon_y | thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep this provider |
| 11:57.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 11:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | hetzner is *very* reliable |
| 11:57.55 | jon_y | btw, speaking of free stuff |
| 11:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | all my hetzner boxes have uptimes of ~2 years, if it wasn't for the occasional kernel upgrade |
| 11:58.20 | jon_y | I had an ad flyer about free 0 commitment cellphone plans |
| 11:58.39 | jon_y | is there anything fishy about it? |
| 11:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | see above |
| 11:59.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if a product is for free... |
| 11:59.25 | jon_y | they listen to your conversation? |
| 11:59.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly |
| 11:59.56 | jon_y | heh, I was thinking of using it as a v33 modem :) |
| 12:00.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or charge you insane minutes after you sued up the "unlimited" 10 minutes per month |
| 12:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | used* |
| 12:00.33 | jon_y | probabky, I might want to use it for incoming calls only |
| 12:00.45 | jon_y | needs to read fine print |
| 12:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can almost bet on any such niche case usage like modem will be impossible |
| 12:01.21 | jon_y | compressed/distorted audio? |
| 12:01.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | who knows |
| 12:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can bet on on point: after adding in *all* the hidden cost, that offer is no cheaper than any other you can find |
| 12:02.44 | jon_y | :) |
| 12:02.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all they wanna make money, not you happy |
| 12:02.55 | Luke-Jr | anyone for a quick meetup in Chicago? |
| 12:03.01 | jon_y | well, local providers are starting to follow US style locked cell phones |
| 12:03.23 | jon_y | one of my colleagues tell me you end up paying 2.5 times the phone |
| 12:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually |
| 12:04.26 | jon_y | I make for a terrible customer with my no frills cheap nokia without data plans |
| 12:05.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | there been times when carriers sold subsidized simlocked phones quite cheap, since they didn't make their money on the phone but on your minutes plan |
| 12:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | those times are gone mostly |
| 12:05.27 | jon_y | I pay about 7 euros a month commitment, it's the cheapest plan I can find |
| 12:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I use a prepaid SIM, plus my own phones. ever did |
| 12:06.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever been cheaper than any contract |
| 12:06.28 | jon_y | I wanted a prepaid too, but it's far from anonymous here |
| 12:06.35 | jon_y | in b4 terrorism |
| 12:06.48 | jon_y | increased scrutiny |
| 12:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, USA enforced this worldwide |
| 12:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can cheat on it here (Germany) |
| 12:07.27 | jon_y | ? |
| 12:08.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I bought my SIM (2009) they didn't want anything from me. 2 or 3 years later they threatened to lock my account when I not finally show my passport in a O2 shop |
| 12:09.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | **per SMS** |
| 12:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 12:09.21 | jon_y | why a passport? |
| 12:09.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, any Identity paper |
| 12:09.36 | jon_y | oh ok |
| 12:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me that's == passport. I don't need anything else |
| 12:10.08 | jaska | deine papieren, bitte? |
| 12:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, about |
| 12:10.52 | jaska | i think in some central/western european countries you have to carry id with you. |
| 12:10.52 | jon_y | sounds like Stasi |
| 12:11.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile you can buy the prepaid SIM in supermarket, and register online. Of course you can use whatever data you can get hold of, to register ;-P |
| 12:11.32 | jon_y | jaska: I thought the western ones a were a bit more open? |
| 12:11.53 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: do they verify? |
| 12:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | here in Germany it's purported that you always need ID with you, but that's an urban legend produced by police. There is no such law |
| 12:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: they do, but not in any reasonable way |
| 12:13.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you just need to know the data of your mayor or whatever |
| 12:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe incl passport number |
| 12:13.27 | jon_y | your mayor? |
| 12:13.32 | jon_y | town mayor? |
| 12:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, or your neighbour |
| 12:13.49 | jon_y | oh I see |
| 12:14.15 | jaska | here the police can get irritated if you drive without carrying your license |
| 12:14.24 | jon_y | do they disconnect you immediately if they find out? |
| 12:14.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's another story |
| 12:14.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: probably |
| 12:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but they never will find out |
| 12:15.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | since after registering, they have even less good measures to verify |
| 12:15.28 | jon_y | ah I see |
| 12:15.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | remember, it's prepaid |
| 12:16.01 | *** join/#maemo frafl (~Thunderbi@e178067177.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's also not forbidden to buy such SIM and immediately give it away (for money or gift) to arbitrary other persons |
| 12:16.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end who cares? |
| 12:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | if police or other law enforcement wants to track down a phone, they don't need the registration |
| 12:17.14 | jon_y | can the provider detect cloned sims? |
| 12:17.21 | jon_y | illegally cloned |
| 12:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | no terrorist will use a registered phone after all anyway |
| 12:17.38 | jon_y | maybe they use it once :) |
| 12:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, they definitely can and will detect |
| 12:17.45 | jon_y | stolen phone |
| 12:17.54 | jon_y | stolen 5 minutes ago |
| 12:18.36 | ShadowJK | Lost internets this morning, upstream vanished. We called upstream, they sent 2 techhnicians to their POP, they found a third dude with cutting pliers in his hand. "Oops, wrong cable?" lol |
| 12:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | BWAHAHAHA |
| 12:20.50 | jon_y | oh wow, emacs has an irc client |
| 12:21.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | a friend of mine worked for telecom, long time ago, when exchanges worked with those huge relays ( http://cms.waehlamt.at/shop_207/images/telesystem/hebdrehwaehler_580.jpg ) He was about to fix some customer's line, and cut a cable, and thought "dude, something changed!". 2s later he realized that suddenly the whole large exchange room went quiet |
| 12:22.03 | jaska | heh |
| 12:23.08 | ShadowJK | jon_y; emacs has everything |
| 12:23.29 | jon_y | does it run vi? :) |
| 12:23.38 | jon_y | i guess it does |
| 12:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 12:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik it has a vi-mode |
| 12:24.31 | ShadowJK | silence of death :) |
| 12:24.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the term"eighthundred megabytes and constantly swapping" has a reason ;-) |
| 12:25.02 | ShadowJK | rebooted entire stack of switches for a town a couple of weeks ago |
| 12:25.05 | jaska | emacs hasnt kept up with the bloating tho |
| 12:25.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ack |
| 12:25.18 | jon_y | hasn't kept up? |
| 12:25.30 | jaska | browsers, operating systems are getting ahead of it. |
| 12:25.31 | ShadowJK | The sound of it all stopping, and then fear of whether it'd come back up :s |
| 12:25.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: switches? |
| 12:25.58 | jon_y | oh, chrome is supposed to be an OS now |
| 12:26.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | like, hubs? |
| 12:26.17 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05; yes, except smarter than hubs |
| 12:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:26.31 | jon_y | ShadowJK: why? was the internet slow? :) |
| 12:27.13 | *** join/#maemo yosafbridge (~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com) |
| 12:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard they have pretty odd internet structures in some easern Eu countries |
| 12:27.39 | ShadowJK | jon_y; they were all behaving like in a broadcast storm / smurf attack |
| 12:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Moscow there's allegedly a router on every attic |
| 12:28.23 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: what does that mean? NAT everywhere? |
| 12:28.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and buildings connected via free air cables |
| 12:28.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | or sth like that |
| 12:28.52 | jon_y | smurf attack, that's some new word I learned today :) |
| 12:28.53 | ShadowJK | I suggested we nat every customer too |
| 12:29.25 | jon_y | ShadowJK: how do I get unNATed internet? |
| 12:29.33 | jon_y | pay more $$$? |
| 12:30.17 | jon_y | internet drivers license? |
| 12:30.19 | ShadowJK | jon_y; more of a blunt hammer solution to random customers with random crap equipment that put out packets of doom |
| 12:30.39 | jon_y | ah ok, jumbo packets? |
| 12:30.45 | ShadowJK | no |
| 12:31.14 | ShadowJK | It might actually be an interaction between two or more customer devices, and our upstream |
| 12:31.25 | jon_y | I wonder if that's the same issue with DSL concentrators |
| 12:31.33 | ShadowJK | But like, the entire OS and bootloader (!) has sometimes been wiped from random switches |
| 12:31.43 | jon_y | wtf |
| 12:32.02 | jon_y | that some hack |
| 12:32.14 | ShadowJK | buggy firmware I think |
| 12:32.26 | ShadowJK | manufacturer is like "lalalala" |
| 12:33.18 | *** join/#maemo Martix (~martix@dhcp-230-089.eduroam.muni.cz) |
| 12:33.50 | jon_y | crashing DSL routers are probably the same too |
| 12:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders to change his tmo "avatar" to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tcp_synflood.png the green guy with the glasses ;-P |
| 12:34.06 | jon_y | ever since I switched it to bridge mode, it hasn't crashed, ever |
| 12:34.34 | ShadowJK | But they did scrutinize config on all the switches.. 50-80 of them.. |
| 12:35.46 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: is that how you knock someone off the internet too? :) |
| 12:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, one possible way |
| 12:36.45 | jon_y | "Google Demands Microsoft Pull YouTube App For WP8" |
| 12:36.48 | jon_y | oh haha |
| 12:37.03 | jon_y | ironic |
| 12:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: how about joining maemo CERT? |
| 12:38.32 | ShadowJK | what is that |
| 12:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's the few guys in techstaff that care about server outages etc |
| 12:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | currently xes, warfare, me |
| 12:40.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, simply put, http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/ |
| 12:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a few more non-public pages |
| 12:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | like icinga/nagios |
| 12:42.58 | *** join/#maemo peetah (~peetah@cha92-9-82-236-202-86.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:44.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://monitor.maemo.org/ |
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| 13:22.06 | samn900 | hey why my n900 looses SIM signals while in other phones never happened? |
| 13:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends |
| 13:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | for one the GSM/UMTS antenna is positioned on the right hand (landscape orientation) small side of case, so it gets quite effectively covered when you hold the device with both hands for typing on kbd |
| 13:24.13 | jon_y | your n900 sim holder is faulty? |
| 13:24.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | this would result in SIM not present, not in Signal lost |
| 13:24.40 | jon_y | also, I noticed 3G signals have better strength than 2G at times |
| 13:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | at times not, though |
| 13:25.09 | jon_y | normally, it falls back to 2G on random signal fades |
| 13:25.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for my cell here this changed drastically a year or so ago |
| 13:25.22 | jon_y | and stays 2G since the signal is poor |
| 13:25.40 | jon_y | forcing it to 3G gives good signal again |
| 13:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 13:26.06 | jon_y | yeah, weird, but it happens |
| 13:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it should roam back to 3G after a few minutes |
| 13:26.20 | jon_y | I was in a rural-ish area |
| 13:26.37 | jon_y | single 3G tower to cover several km |
| 13:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it doesn't, then your carrier has a silly config for his network |
| 13:27.01 | jon_y | yeah, they probably are |
| 13:27.26 | jon_y | I do occasionally get 2.5G |
| 13:27.31 | *** join/#maemo sammy (~sammy@ppp-217-176.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 13:27.32 | jon_y | very rarely |
| 13:27.45 | sammy | can you explain |
| 13:27.47 | sammy | I missed |
| 13:27.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, not really |
| 13:28.08 | jon_y | sammy: try switching to 2G/3G mode and see if it helps |
| 13:28.13 | Guest37321 | the telepathy client for irc on my n900 has not visualized all |
| 13:28.20 | Guest37321 | I could not read everything |
| 13:28.24 | Guest37321 | copy and paste |
| 13:29.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 13:29.41 | jon_y | use irssi on the n900, best irc client :) |
| 13:30.25 | Guest37321 | yes |
| 13:30.40 | Guest37321 | now I have read all |
| 13:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | xchat forever |
| 13:30.47 | Guest37321 | yes |
| 13:31.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but never without my customizations: |
| 13:31.16 | Guest37321 | however... I have load applet |
| 13:31.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrxchat |
| 13:31.17 | infobot | it has been said that jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ |
| 13:31.24 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: does xchat allow juvenile pranks and scripts? :) |
| 13:31.58 | Guest37321 | and on load applet I see I have set 3G+GSM |
| 13:32.19 | jon_y | try force it to one |
| 13:32.30 | Guest37321 | without GSM? |
| 13:32.41 | jon_y | yes |
| 13:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | load applet? |
| 13:32.52 | Guest37321 | my only options here are 3G+GSM and 3G and 2G |
| 13:33.00 | jon_y | well, try it |
| 13:33.11 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: dau.pl script |
| 13:33.36 | Guest37321 | I have charged all applets not only load applet |
| 13:33.58 | jon_y | try set to 3G |
| 13:34.03 | Guest37321 | I can access to screen light level as volume level as well |
| 13:34.06 | jon_y | or set to 2G |
| 13:34.12 | Guest37321 | I have set 3G |
| 13:34.28 | Guest37321 | I have also screencast and screenshot applet |
| 13:34.45 | *** join/#maemo guampa (~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa) |
| 13:34.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the words, their meaning obscure is |
| 13:34.49 | Guest37321 | battery advanced status |
| 13:34.52 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@171.72.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 13:34.53 | Guest37321 | and ssh status |
| 13:34.55 | jon_y | so, why are you telling us about your applets? |
| 13:35.02 | Guest37321 | XD |
| 13:35.06 | Guest37321 | for fun |
| 13:35.44 | jon_y | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.54 | jon_y | annoy your irc friends |
| 13:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I odn"t nerd anY such stoobit skript for dat!!1!! |
| 13:41.48 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 13:42.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Guest37321: to compare to any other phone, you first need to swap your actualy SIM between phones, since another SIM may result in different RF behaviour of the mobile |
| 13:44.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly different brand or type SIM ( or rather, contract / config on that SIM) may cause usage of even completely different bands etc, which wouldn't be a valid compare |
| 13:47.34 | Guest37321 | no DocScrutinizer05 I don't need to make all that work of swap |
| 13:47.52 | Guest37321 | I already know that is because of n900 |
| 13:48.16 | Guest37321 | but I don't aim to blame you or n900 |
| 13:48.56 | Guest37321 | I want to configure well my n900 in order of having my SIM signal good as should be always |
| 13:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then sorry I dunno how to answer your question |
| 13:49.47 | Guest37321 | I have already had and answer and I am already trying with joh_y advice |
| 13:50.13 | Guest37321 | as he told me I should select just 3G or 2G |
| 13:51.54 | Guest37321 | and I mixed this information at yours since you said that for the one GSM/UMTS and I mixed this to jon_y who said that I have to choose or 2G or 3G |
| 13:52.08 | Guest37321 | well all this is an answer for sure |
| 13:52.36 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@200.119.151.105) |
| 13:53.40 | Guest37321 | also the keyboard mode and hand cover the antenna cool information... |
| 13:53.56 | Guest37321 | so thank you... and be more gentle with your self |
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| 14:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: you tested your extras-account? |
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| 16:27.15 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: not yet, as I probably will need the SDK for that... and the real computer for that |
| 16:27.25 | divVerent | but I was told it has been created, so I for now assume it has been |
| 16:29.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's not as simple to answer a question |
| 16:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just changed your shell on drop from gitsh.pl to svngitsh.pl |
| 16:29.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and :-O who told you it been created? |
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| 16:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | to me it looks like **something** created that account on drop.m.o not earlier than May 15 19:26 UTC |
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| 18:14.19 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 18:23.02 | packbart | ~usbfix |
| 18:23.02 | infobot | somebody said usbfix was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) |
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| 19:01.44 | packbart | hey guys. I am about to solder a new USB port onto my N900. But that second board is scary. How to properly remove that camera board? |
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| 19:19.11 | packbart | on to the soldering part |
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| 19:27.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | peel it off |
| 19:27.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's doublesided sticky |
| 19:28.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | take care about the flex cable |
| 19:28.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | flex PCB rather |
| 19:28.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | you can't replace it |
| 19:29.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | also don't forget to stck some thick tape on the camre lens |
| 19:29.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | or paper, carton, wjatever |
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| 19:42.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | packbart: you also might find my scans of bare PCB (without components) useful |
| 19:42.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | it nicely shows the nine solder pads where USB is soldered to PVB |
| 19:43.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | maemo.cloud-7.de/ |
| 19:44.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | N900exploded or sth like that |
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| 21:01.02 | muelli | hey guys. I have a N900 with a broken USB port, i.e. it doesn't charge. But the port is on the board and my measurements indicate that the pads receive the signals properly... And idea what's going on? |
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| 21:23.05 | orson | how do you know it does not charge? is there led blinking or pulsing? |
| 21:23.32 | orson | what do you measure exactly? |
| 21:28.50 | muelli | orson: the device doesn't change its appearance, i.e. no indication of charging whatsoever. |
| 21:29.09 | muelli | orson: and I measure from the cable to the five pads on the board. |
| 21:29.14 | muelli | All power goes through. |
| 21:29.48 | merlin1991 | ~mirror |
| 21:29.49 | infobot | methinks mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 21:30.23 | merlin1991 | infobot: not mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 21:30.23 | infobot | okay, merlin1991 |
| 21:30.27 | merlin1991 | ~mirror |
| 21:30.27 | infobot | from memory, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 21:31.56 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer51: ping I fail to edit a factoid :/ |
| 21:34.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 21:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~factinfo not mirror |
| 21:34.45 | infobot | not mirror -- created by merlin1991 <~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991> 4m 22s ago. |
| 21:34.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget not mirror |
| 21:34.57 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot not mirror |
| 21:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal mirror |
| 21:35.05 | infobot | "#maemo mirror" is "http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new" |
| 21:35.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, #maemo mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 21:35.39 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 21:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror |
| 21:35.48 | infobot | hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 21:35.54 | merlin1991 | thanks |
| 21:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal _default mirror |
| 21:36.05 | infobot | "mirror" is "<REPLY> see at http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/mirrors/familiar or at ftp://ftp.easynet.be/familiar/releases/" |
| 21:36.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | please check carefully before you redefine factoids! |
| 21:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~_default mirror |
| 21:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: _default mirror |
| 21:38.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much |
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| 21:38.59 | orson | muelli: I did not check schematics now, but did you measure next connections? to and between ICs? |
| 21:39.33 | orson | muelli: but to be sincere, I am not really sure if it is possible at all, because I did not see PCB |
| 21:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, _default mirror is a dead factoid |
| 21:40.06 | orson | muelli: in many devices there is a resettable fuse in USB power circuit |
| 21:40.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | since somebody messed it up |
| 21:40.36 | orson | muelli: but I am afraid that there is none and just one of ICs is broken |
| 21:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 21:41.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afraid software is messed up |
| 21:42.14 | orson | muelli: or maybe you make connections during measurements? eg. you press USB connector pins to the PCB and then they are connected? |
| 21:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | or USB data lines are broken |
| 21:43.00 | orson | then if USB data lines are broken, you cross them on the phone side and connect +5V via usb - it should trigger quick charge mode |
| 21:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | first you check from a cut up USB cable to the corresponding testpoints under battery |
| 21:43.39 | orson | I mean - short them, not cross, sry |
| 21:44.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly? short datalines hard, on phone?? |
| 21:44.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I probably can think of at least 3 better ideas |
| 21:44.31 | orson | I do not mean soldering - I usually do this kind of things temporarily with a screwdriver |
| 21:45.31 | orson | then go on with ideas, I want to learn sth too :) |
| 21:50.28 | muelli | hm orson. I think we made sure to measure the USB cable properly. But DocScrutinizer05's hint on measuring behind the battery is interesting. |
| 21:50.51 | muelli | I doubt that it will work though. |
| 21:52.21 | muelli | does anyone have the pinouts handy? |
| 21:53.10 | muelli | should the USB pinout work on a phone w/o battery? |
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| 21:58.06 | muelli | I tried to take voltage between Vpp and GND as per http://www.cpkb.org/images/9/99/Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg but there is nothing |
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| 21:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there was any problem in measuring from USB cable to test points, I wouldn't suggest it |
| 22:00.18 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: sorry I don't get that. |
| 22:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not suggesting actions that I don't know for sure how to do them |
| 22:01.07 | muelli | okay. |
| 22:01.18 | muelli | Any suggestions you have for me to investigate the usb port issue? |
| 22:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can test 4 of the 5 USB pins on testpoints. You can't test ID pin, but that's irrelevant anyway |
| 22:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | check each of the 4 connections from USB to testpoint, they all 4 shall have <0.1Ohm |
| 22:02.54 | muelli | test point being here: http://www.cpkb.org/images/9/99/Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg ? |
| 22:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | if Vpp aka Vbus is not connected, then it might indeed be the fuse |
| 22:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but Vpp is not Vbus |
| 22:03.36 | muelli | ah! It seems as if Vpp is not going through to the test point. let me double check. |
| 22:04.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vbus is USB pow. detect iirc |
| 22:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vpp is system voltage |
| 22:05.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | get the schematics! |
| 22:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~schematics |
| 22:06.42 | infobot | it has been said that schematics is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic |
| 22:14.50 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: hm. So I just measured from USB to test pins. GND goes through as expected. VPP from USB goes to first row, third column of the test pins. The pinout say smth different, no? and I don't get the data lines through it seems. |
| 22:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | dat alines are on the separate 2 testpoints |
| 22:17.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports |
| 22:17.42 | muelli | ah. okay. I get them, too. |
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| 22:24.25 | muelli | so there is a connection from USB 5V to that test pin. Which is good I think. And GND and data leave the test pins, too. Yet, the device doesn't charge or recognize USB |
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| 22:33.08 | muelli | However, there seems to be no current from 5V on the test pin to GND on either test pin or directly the usb cable's GND. |
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| 22:35.23 | muelli | which is weird because both, 5V and GND seem to be connected properly, i.e. ~10 Ohm from the USB cable to the test pin. |
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| 22:40.33 | muelli | hm. A reference N900 does have 5V from both pins. The broken N900 does not have that. That is weird, no? |
| 22:40.41 | muelli | 5V when USB is attached, that is. |
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| 23:05.42 | muelli | hm. For some reason the charger doesn't emit 5V when attached to the broken phone. But the resistance is the same for the working and the broken phone. |
| 23:06.19 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: any idea? :-\ I'm getting really desperate. |
| 23:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | when the charger doesn't provide 5V (probed on charger, not somewhere inside phone) then something is odd with the charger, or your Vbus is short to GND |
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| 23:08.21 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: but the charger works well with other phones, plus with the working N900. |
| 23:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the possible reasons remain the same |
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| 23:09.31 | muelli | I tried to measure voltage from the USB port's 5V to the shielding of the USB. Beforehand I measured that both, 5V and GND do indeed arrive at the pins after the port. |
| 23:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | either something is defect or odd with charger, or the Vbus is shorted to GND. Since a charger has only two wires that go from the charger electronics to phone, this is hte immutable set of possible culprits when on those two wires there's no 5V |
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| 23:11.02 | muelli | Well. There is 5V from the charger when attached to the working N900. |
| 23:12.21 | muelli | And measuring resistance between USB 5V and GND indicates no short circuit, i.e. 50kOhm |
| 23:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you sure you're probing on charger and not after plug and recepatcle? |
| 23:16.30 | muelli | hm DocScrutinizer05. I don't know what a recepatcle is. But one measurement I did was on the test pins between 5V and GND. And that worked with the working n900 but not with the broken one. |
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| 23:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you're really probing on charger, then most likely explanation is: charger or cable has a break that only delivers 5V as long as no current is drawn |
| 23:17.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | a receptacle is the thing you plug a plug in |
| 23:18.50 | xes | or in the charger data+ and data- are not shorted (not original?) |
| 23:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I asked you three or more times if you're *really* probing on charger so you can tell *definitely* that charger doesn't deliver 5V on "broken" N900 |
| 23:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: that is absolutely irrelevant for a voltmeter |
| 23:20.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems muelli has another N900 to compare. So I'd even suspect software |
| 23:20.58 | ecc3g | have multiple chargers too, to compare? |
| 23:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | muelli: btw 10Ohm are WAAAY too much. With as little as 0.5A charging current there would be a voltahe drop of 5V already, on 10Ohm |
| 23:28.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | resistance between cable and testpoints must be significantly lower than 1Ohm |
| 23:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly for GND and Vbus-5V |
| 23:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I-E. black and red wire in cable |
| 23:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | 10Ohm is exactly what I said before: charger or cable has a break that only delivers 5V as long as no current is drawn |
| 23:30.23 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: but that's not the case for the working phone either. |
| 23:30.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | or plug or receptacle or phone, since you probed those as well |
| 23:30.41 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 23:30.53 | ecc3g | <- very annoyed at microusb now after rootcausing the n900 charging problem to a bad microusb *plug* that seems to have a connection resistance of 3-4 ohms... |
| 23:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | not unusual |
| 23:31.19 | ecc3g | here's something to try: measure the test points on the board with a 47 ohm resistor across the meter probes. |
| 23:31.26 | ecc3g | see how much it drops... |
| 23:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | what? |
| 23:32.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the use of this? |
| 23:33.31 | ecc3g | estimate resistance of the charging cable, usb plug/recepticle. |
| 23:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 23:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | that would work if there was any voltage on the test pins |
| 23:34.34 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (5472b26f@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 23:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm affraid muelli will probe his N900 to death |
| 23:36.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are really delicate testpoints there |
| 23:36.31 | merlin1991 | dumping a 3GB postgres db for an upgrade to 9.1 is fun! |
| 23:37.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and some cheap meters have a probing voltage of >>1V (the considered safe voltage limit for probing on electronics) |
| 23:37.20 | muelli | :-| I'd gladly follow instructions :-\ |
| 23:37.30 | muelli | I can replace the charger but I doubt it will make a difference |
| 23:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it won't, most likely |
| 23:37.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | what charger is that? |
| 23:38.06 | muelli | uhm. Some cheap generic USB charger |
| 23:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 23:38.20 | muelli | which works with other phones, and with another N900 |
| 23:38.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | most probably xes been right |
| 23:39.20 | *** join/#maemo DNQcj (~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 23:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | a standard software setup on N900 will not charge on chargers that miss short between D+ and D- data lines |
| 23:39.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | another N900 might have a non-standard software that actually charges even with those chargers |
| 23:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. bme-replacement |
| 23:40.15 | ecc3g | muelli: do you have a USB charging cable that you can hook up to a computer, and that also doesn't work? |
| 23:40.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | much simpler |
| 23:40.28 | muelli | ecc3g: yes |
| 23:40.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | insert battery to the suspect N900 |
| 23:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | do NOT power up |
| 23:41.04 | muelli | hm DocScrutinizer05. unlikely that the other phone runs non-vanilla software |
| 23:41.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | plug in the powered charger and watch exactly what happens on N900 |
| 23:41.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want to do even better: hold "U" key while plugging in charger |
| 23:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the phone boots up and shows *any* sign of life (NOKIA on screen, LED steady or even flashing amber), then your software is defect, or the charger is missing D+- short |
| 23:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the phone doesn't show any reaction on plugging in the charger to powered down phone, despite known functional battery inserted, then you have a hw defect |
| 23:45.45 | muelli | DocScrutinizer05: "suspect n900" being the broken one..? |
| 23:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:46.14 | muelli | I'm quite confident that there will be no visible reaction of the phone when plugging in the charger. but I will test in a few minutes |
| 23:46.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | a hw defect can be charger, plug, or receptacle, most usually |
| 23:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB receptacle loose is a common failure pattern |
| 23:47.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | but also dirt/debris in plug or receptacle is commonly seen |
| 23:48.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | so check both the plug at end of cable and the receptacle in N900 with a magnifying glass |
| 23:49.07 | muelli | yeah, but I measured resistance from the cable to test pins. |
| 23:49.08 | muelli | all good. |
| 23:49.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, 10Ohm is all bad |
| 23:50.10 | muelli | well. 10 Ohm from cable GND to test pin GND. And from cable 5V to test pin 5V. And the data lines. That is bad? That means that there is a straight connection, right? |
| 23:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when you measured 10Ohm on the working/charging phone as well, then you either have a defect meter or you're probing the wrong thing |
| 23:51.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, 10 Ohm is already what you can probe between GND and any other arbitary pin on a N900 |
| 23:51.44 | muelli | hm. |
| 23:53.46 | muelli | what shall I get when measuring resistance from cable GND to test pin GND? Or 5V. Or data lines? |
| 23:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | from cable GND to test pin GND you shall get 0.0Ohm |
| 23:54.57 | *** join/#maemo robbiethe1st (~robbiethe@50-37-94-189.mscw.id.frontiernet.net) |
| 23:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | from USB receptaccle shielding (the metal frame sleeve) to battery contacts minus it shall be ~0.06...0.1Ohm |
| 23:57.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | between cable GND (black wire) and USB sleeve aka shielding braid aka plug's metal outside, it shall be 0.0 Ohm when plugged to N900 (might also be 0 Ohm when not plugged to anything, depending on charger and cable) |
| 23:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw how do you probe on charger side? I.E. how do you contact the acble that goes to USB plug GND (or Vbus-5V, or any of the data lines)? |
