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| 07:03.48 | kerio | i'm not sure why, but my battery has become a 1600mAh battery |
| 07:04.04 | kerio | vi__1: you were right! |
| 07:04.24 | kerio | and that's 1600mAh at a constant ~180mA draw |
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| 08:21.36 | vi__1 | ~vi |
| 08:21.37 | infobot | from memory, vi is the best text editor in the world. |
| 08:21.41 | vi__1 | ~vi_ |
| 08:21.47 | vi__1 | ~vi__ |
| 08:21.47 | infobot | well, vi__ is 13:21 < DocScrutinizer05> vi__: you're absolutely right |
| 08:22.27 | vi__1 | infobot, vi__1 is < kerio > vi__1: you were right! |
| 08:22.27 | infobot | okay, vi__1 |
| 08:22.32 | vi__1 | ~vi__1 |
| 08:22.32 | infobot | methinks vi__1 is < kerio > vi__1: you were right! |
| 08:22.39 | vi__1 | lock vi__1 |
| 08:22.49 | vi__1 | ~lock vii_1 |
| 08:22.55 | vi__1 | ~lock |
| 08:23.00 | vi__1 | !lock vi__1 |
| 08:23.09 | vi__1 | infobot, lock vi__1 |
| 08:23.09 | infobot | vi__1: locking factoid vi__1 |
| 08:23.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | panic mode? |
| 08:23.12 | vi__1 | w00t |
| 08:23.24 | vi__1 | I am collecting karma. |
| 08:23.36 | vi__1 | kerio: I told you it was real! |
| 08:23.54 | vi__1 | bq27x00 does not lie. |
| 08:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__1: "~" and "infobot:" are identical (except for "no," which I nrever understood) |
| 08:26.07 | vi__1 | ok |
| 08:27.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | so ~lock vi__1 would've worked |
| 08:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | not ~lock vii_1 though |
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| 09:20.02 | Apic | A splendid good Morning to You all. |
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| 09:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | to you as well |
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| 09:36.09 | ludens | is it possible to install checkinstall in scratchbox? |
| 09:36.31 | ludens | is failing with debhelper |
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| 09:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask freemangordon, I think he's most experienced in installing any new tools to scratchbox. After all he brought new improved gcc et al to cssu-thumb |
| 09:42.27 | ludens | ha |
| 09:42.30 | ludens | i mean ah |
| 09:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | however keep in mind that you won't find any of those new leete tools on maemo-extras autobuilder, so it might get difficult to promote any such "advanced" package to extras repo |
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| 09:47.11 | ludens | ok |
| 09:47.43 | Pali | and btw promotion is not working... |
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| 10:17.19 | ludens | welp, creating .debs for the N900 in SB seems to be way beyond me anyway. everything is too old for the build to work |
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| 10:35.03 | Pali | ludens: copy that package from debian etch or squeeze |
| 10:35.19 | Pali | that should compile in maemo scratchbox |
| 10:35.53 | Pali | ludens: also you did not specified why it is not working... so nobody cannot help you... |
| 10:36.03 | ludens | i know :) |
| 10:36.41 | ludens | i just wanted to know if that is a common thing that happens |
| 10:37.07 | ludens | Pali: i can probably get it to compile in scratchbox, the trouble is creating a .deb that i can install on my phone |
| 10:37.18 | Pali | debhelper7 is in extras-devel and I test it working |
| 10:37.36 | ludens | yeah i think i got it working |
| 10:37.52 | Pali | so if you can compile it in scratchbox it is ok? |
| 10:38.01 | ludens | i havent tried that |
| 10:38.03 | Pali | and creating deb package is not hard then |
| 10:38.10 | ludens | it isnt? |
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| 10:38.23 | Pali | dh_make will generate debian/ folder |
| 10:38.34 | ludens | oh |
| 10:38.37 | Pali | but use dh_make outside scratchbox on some debian/ubuntu |
| 10:38.56 | ludens | oh why? |
| 10:39.29 | Pali | use "dh_make -r old" which generate debian/rules compatible with debhelper 4 and 5 |
| 10:39.36 | ludens | ah |
| 10:39.59 | Pali | I think that in scratchbox is version of dh_make which not working correctly |
| 10:40.05 | ludens | i see |
| 10:40.16 | Pali | btw, after generating, make sure that you change debian/compat to "5" |
| 10:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | [context pointer] on elections, and particularly SD69's take on his responsibilities in those (referring to pending BoD election), see: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12612#c38 last section, and previous posts. |
| 10:40.42 | povbot | 04Bug 12612: Community Council election process isn't working at all |
| 10:41.34 | ludens | Pali: okay. thanks for all this advice |
| 10:41.41 | ludens | will see if i can get anywhere with it |
| 10:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: and btw we have nobody capable to look into it. Don't you understand it hurts me seeing you mentioning it (and implicitly blaming me) every so often, without understanding *why* promotion doesn't work |
| 10:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: and btw, *YOU* still didn't stand up and volunteered to have a look into it, to fix it |
| 10:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: and also whom-it-may-concern: we have severe issues with midgard (the CMS behind large parts of our maemo.org infra) being broken since migration#1 (nokia->nemein) at least. Missing data and a corrupted-to-fubar mysql table (religard). This renders a significant part of services and functions around *.maemo.org/* broken or at least in a non-maintainable state - including promotion I guess |
| 10:53.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1339953&postcount=62 |
| 10:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | @all: MIDGARD esperts URGENTLY NEEDED! |
| 10:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had jacekowski to look into autobuilder, but he never contented with being a maintainer and pushed for sysop privileges while not complying with the mandatory rules any sysop on maemo is required to adhere to. When he wasn't able to push his ideas of "give me root access on everywhere", he ragequit |
| 11:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | so our current state is: we have nobody with more than absolute beginner's insght into autobuilder, and we have nobody taking care about midgard and fixing the zillions of problem symptoms we see there |
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| 11:03.38 | divVerent | looks like my headphone jack is breaking down... probably not really worth repairing now unless doing it myself, I suppose |
| 11:03.46 | divVerent | luckily there is fmtxd ;) |
| 11:04.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: swapping AV receptacle is a 30min low effort task any arbitrary Nokia service center is capable to do |
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| 11:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | (30min being a really generous estimation, incl the time for printing the receipt and having a short chat) |
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| 11:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: when you elaborate a bit about nature of the perceived breakage, I might be able to give advice how to fix it yourself |
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| 13:29.45 | ludens | Pali: well, i found a wheezy .deb that i managed to install instead of building myself, but thanks anyway |
| 13:30.30 | ludens | does anyone know hot to change the BusyBox greeting message in osso-xterm btw? |
| 13:32.10 | ecc3g | meaning "BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash)"? thought that was part of busybox? |
| 13:32.26 | ludens | yeah... |
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| 13:32.45 | ludens | the thing is i use a different shell |
| 13:32.52 | ludens | but i launch it from busybox |
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| 13:33.06 | ludens | in my .profile |
| 13:33.19 | ludens | so it just looks a bit odd |
| 13:33.59 | ecc3g | oh weird. busybox ash is behaving very weird on my x86 box... |
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| 13:46.15 | ecc3g | probably safest way is to hack your busybox binary not to display the banner, but if you're using bash I wonder what would happen if you just chsh'ed... |
| 13:46.41 | ecc3g | (chsh not recommended if you're not using a type of bourne shell of course) |
| 13:47.53 | ludens | no i dont want to chsh |
| 13:48.04 | ludens | and i dont have chsh anyway |
| 13:48.41 | ecc3g | weird, I have chsh on my n900... (but busybox ash works fine enough for me...) |
| 13:49.05 | ludens | oh i did have it |
| 13:49.07 | ludens | that's strange |
| 13:49.22 | ludens | i couldnt find it an hour ago |
| 13:50.37 | ecc3g | hmm... i should blacklist ipv6 somehow... or figure out how to do ipv6 on tmobile... |
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| 15:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | chsh might mess up stuff for you |
| 15:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | system boot is tested against messybox for user "user" only, and there been times where people that succeeded in chsh to bash found themselves in a bootloop since bash (+ proper coreutils) broke initscripts |
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| 15:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, initscripts failed on proper coreutils since they relied on messybox broken behaviour |
| 15:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | this might be obsolete info, just saying |
| 15:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I still enter "bash" as first command after every login |
| 15:11.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | (this even while bash is considered 'safe' for user "root") |
| 15:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough it been some of the late init stuff in hildon desktop or sth like that, which broke when user "user" has no proper messybox shell as default login shell, while root been fine no matter what |
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| 15:18.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might find some helpful details on |
| 15:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 15:18.39 | infobot | [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 15:21.33 | ludens | DocScrutinizer05: yeah thats why i dont want to chsh |
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| 15:28.06 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: the headphone breakage is that both channels sometimes work and sometimes not |
| 15:28.26 | divVerent | touching the plug tends to fix/break it |
| 15:28.41 | divVerent | i did try other headphones |
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| 15:38.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: it seems that a very common problem with AV-receptacle are the contact springst that connect the component to PCB |
| 15:39.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the spring tips as well as golden pads on PCB may collect dirt of any kind, and that will spoil proper operation |
| 15:40.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | the component isn't soldered to PCB, as you might have guessed from prev lines |
| 15:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the bright side of this: no solder points means no damage to PCB by excessive mech force to the AV-recptcl |
| 15:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can swap the component withing minutes, with your only tool being a torx-T6 and a phillips-Ph0 |
| 15:43.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | (just in case it's actually damaged) |
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| 17:05.31 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: thanks, that is good news... |
| 17:05.41 | divVerent | I can't solder small parts, only big wires ;) |
| 17:05.48 | divVerent | but, I can use a Torx ;) |
| 17:05.58 | divVerent | and have some, although not here (in a few weeks I will have them again) |
| 17:06.10 | divVerent | currently in the process of moving, that's why |
| 17:06.13 | divVerent | till then, fmtxd will do |
| 17:06.16 | *** part/#maemo miniyo (~amospalla@unaffiliated/amospalla) |
| 17:06.58 | divVerent | while at it... is the N900's flash memory in some way "file system aware"? |
| 17:07.10 | divVerent | I noticed I quite often lose data (mostly on unclean reboots) on my extra partition |
| 17:07.23 | divVerent | it MIGHT not get unmounted cleanly when battery is empty, but NORMALLY this doesn't harm ext3 much |
| 17:07.47 | divVerent | so does the N900's wear levelling maybe assume specific file system structures, and this is what breaks it (I use a dm-crypt volume)? |
| 17:08.22 | divVerent | for now, I changed the ext3 mount to safest possible options, MAYBE this will help |
| 17:14.44 | divVerent | when I did lose data, e2fsck finds a LOT of problems |
| 17:15.09 | divVerent | weirdly of files that I didn't even touch for ages |
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| 17:33.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | flash is is reas-modify-write on pages that are several MB in size |
| 17:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | flash does read-modify-write on pages that are several MB in size |
| 17:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and wear leveling results in the content cobstantly moving from one page to another |
| 17:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ext3 doesn't help on any of that |
| 17:35.46 | divVerent | sure... well, which FS does? |
| 17:35.48 | divVerent | vfat sure neither ;) |
| 17:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | au contraire |
| 17:36.11 | divVerent | I also had tried ext2 |
| 17:36.30 | divVerent | vfat is not an option at all, as I use it for /home/user, and that really needs e.g. the executable flag feature and symbolic links to work |
| 17:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ext3 has a journal that has advantages for normal HDD since it's one file on disk that gets sequential writes, so no head moves are needed |
| 17:37.07 | divVerent | main reason for ext3 and not ext2 was hoping that the data losses happen less with ext3 due to journal... but this didn't seem to help |
| 17:37.26 | divVerent | it goes equally bad with ext2 and ext3 |
| 17:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | for falsh such journal is counter-productive |
| 17:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the flash driver better doesn't read-modify-write a 64MB page for each sector written to journal |
| 17:38.31 | divVerent | sure, but let's ignore the journal |
| 17:38.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | so huge parts of your journal end in cache |
| 17:38.40 | divVerent | that one is about write cycles... but these were not the problem here |
| 17:38.45 | divVerent | as the issue also happened with ext2 |
| 17:39.07 | divVerent | main reason why I currently have it on ext3 is that other FS on N900 use ext3 too, so I need to modprobe nothing ;) |
| 17:39.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is *it*? |
| 17:39.22 | divVerent | /home/user |
| 17:39.27 | divVerent | I made an extra partition for this |
| 17:39.30 | divVerent | and mount it via dm-crypt |
| 17:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | then blame dm-crypt |
| 17:39.53 | divVerent | it works fine everywhere else |
| 17:39.59 | divVerent | MAYBE my shutdown handling is broken, so let's just assume it IS not cleanly unmounted |
| 17:40.09 | divVerent | but normally ext3 can handle that (and so can ext2) |
| 17:40.22 | divVerent | (although fsck on start usually tells me it WAS cleanly unmounted) |
| 17:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 17:40.33 | divVerent | also, I really NEED dm-crypt :( |
| 17:40.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you've read what I wrote above? |
| 17:40.39 | divVerent | yes |
| 17:40.48 | divVerent | but I get no solution from that yet |
| 17:40.55 | divVerent | "not using dm-crypt" is not viable... |
| 17:40.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | with flash you tend to have *huge* cache |
| 17:41.08 | divVerent | yes, which is fine by me |
| 17:41.13 | divVerent | although, all I really NEED encrypted is the email passwords |
| 17:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | filled with dirty pages that pend writeback |
| 17:41.20 | divVerent | or alternatively, never stored to flash by modest |
| 17:41.44 | divVerent | if only modest had an option "do not save password to flash", it'd be all fine too ;) |
| 17:42.32 | divVerent | (same goes for the emails themselves, but that cache can be easily kept clean, I suppose... so if I can somehow get rid of the stored passwords, the rest is something I sure should somehow be able to fix) |
| 17:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think passwords are stpored to gconf |
| 17:42.43 | divVerent | yes |
| 17:42.44 | divVerent | that is the issue |
| 17:43.10 | divVerent | al I want to prevent is that if someone steals my device, he gets access to all my accounts everywhere |
| 17:43.27 | divVerent | and once you have the email account, you have everything |
| 17:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also think a tweaked dconf schema can make those critical keys get stored to e.g. ramdisk instead of ~user/ |
| 17:43.58 | divVerent | but then I likely need to create the whole email account again every time... |
| 17:44.01 | divVerent | which is also very annoying |
| 17:44.06 | divVerent | I would want to ONLY lose the password on boot |
| 17:44.16 | divVerent | so modest will try to auth, get a reply of bad password, then ask me |
| 17:44.21 | divVerent | like it already does when the PW is wrong |
| 17:44.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
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| 17:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that sounds simple enough |
| 17:44.58 | divVerent | and yes, it may indeed be that dm-crypt causes some breakage (like extra level of caching not properly handled on power off or flush) here |
| 17:45.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | just make the gconf file with the passwords read-only |
| 17:45.17 | divVerent | hm... that may be worth a try |
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| 17:46.43 | divVerent | leaves the emails THEMSELVES; though... but 1. this should be easier to fix, and 2. if it won't receive any NEW password reset emails, I should still be pretty safe ;) |
| 17:46.52 | divVerent | BTW, is there a known lock code bypass exploit for the N900? |
| 17:47.11 | divVerent | it sure does not have the feautres of the iPhone that lead to all those exploits (like camera or contacts available from lock screen) |
| 17:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a nown way to reset lockcode |
| 17:47.56 | divVerent | without powering off and on again? |
| 17:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 17:48.06 | divVerent | then I know it ;) |
| 17:48.17 | divVerent | it is called reflash with hacked image containing e.g. backupmenu |
| 17:48.20 | divVerent | which sure can be built SOMEHOW |
| 17:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 |
| 17:49.54 | divVerent | hm... I indeed may get away with making those gconf files read only... |
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| 17:50.05 | divVerent | they look like they contain no keys that change when using email normally |
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| 17:57.01 | inz | divVerent, btw, gconf and thus email passwords are in /var/lib/gconf |
| 18:00.59 | divVerent | yes, I foudn them |
| 18:01.02 | divVerent | in that server_accounts dir |
| 18:01.26 | divVerent | I now copied my data to the nonencrypted part, but before, cleared the passwords, and gave that dir the +i attribute |
| 18:01.28 | divVerent | (immutable) |
| 18:01.39 | divVerent | simple read only by chmod probably won't do anything, because gconfd runs as root |
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| 18:01.56 | divVerent | let's see if modest works after entering the passwords |
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| 18:06.31 | divVerent | yes, looks like it worked, modest now asks once on first poll, then not again |
| 18:06.37 | divVerent | and nothing is saved to gconf ;) |
| 18:07.26 | divVerent | thanks, that helped |
| 18:13.01 | divVerent | looks like for all other crypto needs, I can use encfs then |
| 18:16.47 | divVerent | now if only I could get an account to upload a package to testing... I oncce made an encfs package (recompiled Debian's sources), but then applied for an account and never got a response |
| 18:17.03 | divVerent | now I don't have the package any more, but it was easy to do, so I can soon do it again |
| 18:17.19 | freemangordon | divVerent: you don;t have a garage account? |
| 18:17.21 | divVerent | I do still have it installed on my n900 though ;) |
| 18:17.22 | divVerent | no |
| 18:17.27 | divVerent | I wanted to create one, but failed |
| 18:17.31 | freemangordon | did you apply for one? |
| 18:17.34 | divVerent | yes |
| 18:17.35 | freemangordon | failed? |
| 18:17.39 | divVerent | this was during the server move stuff though |
| 18:17.43 | divVerent | probably got lost |
| 18:17.49 | freemangordon | ooh, try now, afaik it should work |
| 18:17.50 | divVerent | failed, as in, never got an email on it |
| 18:18.13 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ain't? ^^^ |
| 18:18.47 | divVerent | well, garage account I got |
| 18:18.55 | divVerent | but there was this extra requirement to be able to upload to devel |
| 18:19.03 | divVerent | where was that pßart again |
| 18:19.59 | divVerent | right, this "invitation to upload" process was where I got lost |
| 18:20.40 | freemangordon | hmm, I see |
| 18:20.48 | freemangordon | I guess you can reapply :) |
| 18:21.00 | divVerent | just did |
| 18:21.07 | freemangordon | nice |
| 18:21.28 | divVerent | although it probably will take me two or three weeks till I have a "real PC" working again |
| 18:21.35 | divVerent | (as in, one capable of running the maemo SDK) |
| 18:21.49 | divVerent | currently I am in the process of moving, and only have my eeepc 701, which sure can't run a VM ;) |
| 18:21.54 | freemangordon | divVerent: get VM image |
| 18:21.58 | freemangordon | ooh |
| 18:22.06 | divVerent | eeepc 701 is that thing with a 4G SSD |
| 18:22.13 | divVerent | well, TECHNICALLY I could plug in a 1T USB drive ;) |
| 18:22.18 | divVerent | but the CPU is still... rock bottom |
| 18:22.21 | divVerent | N900 level ;) |
| 18:22.24 | divVerent | Celeron 630 MHz |
| 18:22.47 | freemangordon | wait, cortex-a8 should be faster than that ;) |
| 18:22.57 | divVerent | depends ;) |
| 18:23.03 | divVerent | in my experience, in some things the N900 is actually faster |
| 18:23.07 | divVerent | but usually not |
| 18:23.20 | divVerent | the eeepc wins by RAM... it has 2G |
| 18:23.25 | freemangordon | divVerent: 256 MB |
| 18:23.28 | divVerent | right |
| 18:23.29 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 18:23.36 | divVerent | on the N900, I at each reboot enable swap on the mmc1 |
| 18:23.45 | divVerent | at priority 1 ;) |
| 18:23.49 | divVerent | so the eMMC isn't overused |
| 18:24.25 | divVerent | and have some old 4G microSD inserted I have no other use for ;) |
| 18:24.33 | freemangordon | did you install CSSU-thumb? |
| 18:24.40 | divVerent | no, didn't dare to yet |
| 18:25.03 | divVerent | my main worry is whether it will cut me off from "regular" CSSU upgrades... like, are the CSSU-thumb packages built automatically when CSSU stuff is uploaded? |
| 18:25.03 | freemangordon | hmm, why is that, do you have some particular fears? |
| 18:25.06 | divVerent | or does it lag behind? |
| 18:25.27 | freemangordon | divVerent: it is meant to lag, but not much, by some 1-2 weeks |
| 18:25.39 | divVerent | also, when using cssu-thumb |
| 18:25.44 | divVerent | can one still use the regular extras repositories? |
| 18:25.53 | freemangordon | the point is that I waut stuff to ba assumed stable in cssu-t before moving to cssu-thumb |
| 18:25.59 | freemangordon | sure you can |
| 18:26.08 | freemangordon | otherwise the whole exercise will be pointless |
| 18:26.10 | divVerent | oh, so it only affects the community repo... then it's probably safe |
| 18:26.24 | freemangordon | it is for sure safe ;) |
| 18:26.27 | divVerent | the kernel itself I can somewhat trust... |
| 18:26.28 | *** join/#maemo aap (~drew@cpe-174-101-232-161.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 18:26.31 | freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb |
| 18:26.32 | infobot | it has been said that cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597 |
| 18:26.38 | divVerent | but in case it breaks, I would like to have a nice way to backup/restore the whole system |
| 18:26.46 | divVerent | reflashing then installing all those packages again would take me quite some hours |
| 18:27.00 | divVerent | so I'd prefer to avoid that |
| 18:27.12 | freemangordon | divVerent: well, it depends on what you mean by "break" |
| 18:27.12 | divVerent | backupmenu handles MOST of it, only the kernel not.l.. |
| 18:27.25 | divVerent | so it probably is ok |
| 18:27.39 | divVerent | I SUPPOSE a quick procedure would be taking a few min to get all dependencies of backupmenu available as .debs |
| 18:27.40 | freemangordon | I am using it on my primary device since the begining (as you may suppose) never needed to even enable RD mode |
| 18:27.46 | divVerent | then I can uise rsync to copy away whole / |
| 18:27.50 | divVerent | and restore it later after a fresh reflash |
| 18:27.57 | divVerent | (from within backupmenu) |
| 18:28.01 | divVerent | that should probably be safe then |
| 18:28.13 | divVerent | RD mode has one purpose: not needing the rootsh package ;) |
| 18:28.29 | freemangordon | divVerent: you can disable lifegurd reboots ;) |
| 18:28.34 | divVerent | the rest looked quite uninteresting to me |
| 18:28.36 | freemangordon | *lifeguard |
| 18:28.43 | divVerent | hm... wait... NOW I get it |
| 18:28.47 | divVerent | then it may actually make sense ;) |
| 18:28.58 | divVerent | does that mean I can get rid of some processes I don't need? ;) |
| 18:29.04 | freemangordon | which is of greate usefulness if you screw it up |
| 18:29.11 | divVerent | which I normally cannot get rid of without dsme rebooting the system |
| 18:29.22 | divVerent | like browserd (I use opera) |
| 18:29.25 | freemangordon | well, I guess it is not intended to be used that way :D |
| 18:29.27 | divVerent | IIRC only SMS/MMS otherwise uses browserd |
| 18:29.33 | freemangordon | ooh, forget about browserd |
| 18:29.54 | freemangordon | all the conversations AND modest AND ovi maps AND ... |
| 18:30.00 | divVerent | oh, modest too? ok then |
| 18:30.01 | freemangordon | what else? |
| 18:30.04 | divVerent | ovi maps, don't care |
| 18:30.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: nope |
| 18:30.19 | divVerent | thing is, wasting RAM for TWO browsers is... insane |
| 18:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | to get rid of browserd (if that even was possible) you need to change the way the process gets started |
| 18:30.36 | freemangordon | divVerent: it does not work like that |
| 18:30.39 | kerio | write a different rtcom-messaging ui |
| 18:31.05 | freemangordon | divVerent: when not used, browserd is SIGSTOPped |
| 18:31.15 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: parking browserd in swap would be the same |
| 18:31.23 | freemangordon | and actually goes to swap |
| 18:31.34 | divVerent | yes, too bad it is actually USED quite often :( |
| 18:31.55 | freemangordon | kerio: it is even better, no symbol resolution happens on wake-up |
| 18:31.58 | freemangordon | :) |
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| 18:32.34 | divVerent | thing is, my eeepc has only 80M RAM use after fresh boot, with a single chromium window open |
| 18:32.36 | divVerent | why can't the N900 |
| 18:32.53 | freemangordon | divVerent: do you have sim card in your n900? |
| 18:32.55 | kerio | because the N900 does a ton more shit than your eeepc with a single chromium window open |
| 18:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | *burrp* |
| 18:33.01 | divVerent | freemangordon: yes |
| 18:33.06 | divVerent | I know it does run a few more useful processes ;) |
| 18:33.16 | freemangordon | do you have IM accounts, e-mail accounts, etc set up? |
| 18:33.27 | kerio | i don't have modest running =D |
| 18:33.28 | freemangordon | FEW more? come on :P |
| 18:34.05 | divVerent | freemangordon: chromium is FAT |
| 18:34.07 | divVerent | compared to opera ;) |
| 18:34.25 | freemangordon | divVerent: also, there are a couple of things in stock Maemo that leak memory like mad :D |
| 18:34.32 | kerio | dillo and w3m also use less ram than chromium |
| 18:34.39 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 18:34.42 | divVerent | yes |
| 18:34.47 | kerio | they're also about as good as opera |
| 18:34.49 | divVerent | I would actuallylike using dillo on n900 ;) |
| 18:34.51 | freemangordon | and what are those useful for? |
| 18:34.52 | *** join/#maemo eMHa_ (~mh@HSI-KBW-149-172-0-168.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:35.03 | freemangordon | divVerent: AFAIK there is a port |
| 18:35.04 | divVerent | freemangordon: yes |
| 18:35.08 | divVerent | I know, that is what "OptimizeN900" is for |
| 18:35.13 | divVerent | freemangordon: there is, but it does not work well |
| 18:35.19 | freemangordon | hmm, what is it for? |
| 18:35.20 | divVerent | dillo's UI relies quite much on having 3 mouse buttons |
| 18:35.27 | divVerent | I would have to patch dillo to work with pen properly |
| 18:35.32 | kerio | freemangordon: probably, a lot of cargo culting |
| 18:35.42 | divVerent | kerio: it is |
| 18:35.46 | divVerent | it basically is lots of kill and sleep commands |
| 18:35.54 | divVerent | to kill virtually all processes one CAN kill |
| 18:35.55 | kerio | divVerent: xmodmap or something, to have shift+touch and fn+touch as right and middle click |
| 18:36.00 | divVerent | and doing it so slow dsme won't reboot the thing |
| 18:36.07 | divVerent | kerio: even with that |
| 18:36.12 | divVerent | holding shift or fn for just scrolling is mad |
| 18:36.28 | kerio | dillo's got scrollbars |
| 18:36.32 | kerio | hasn't it |
| 18:36.42 | divVerent | yes, tiny scrollbars ;) |
| 18:36.50 | divVerent | I would like to be able to use it with the fingers though |
| 18:36.58 | divVerent | yes, I expect a lot of a browser ;) |
| 18:37.13 | divVerent | opera is mostly what I want |
| 18:37.19 | divVerent | just still slow sometimes |
| 18:37.24 | divVerent | while dillo is quite INSANE FAST on the n900 |
| 18:37.40 | divVerent | if it weren't for the UI problems, I'd use it every day |
| 18:37.53 | kerio | no you wouldn't |
| 18:38.00 | kerio | it's an awful browser |
| 18:38.09 | kerio | it /doesn't support CSS/ |
| 18:38.10 | divVerent | the N900 only offers awful browsers though ;) |
| 18:38.15 | divVerent | I know it does not |
| 18:38.19 | divVerent | so what, the web looks ugly then |
| 18:38.22 | divVerent | as long as it WORKS... |
| 18:38.38 | freemangordon | if it is browser at all, I checked on their website a week or so ago, they still PLAN to support(fully) CSS |
| 18:38.40 | divVerent | and modern stuff like youtube doesn't work on the N900 anyway |
| 18:38.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<divVerent> and doing it so slow dsme won't reboot the thing)) HUH? dsme won't reboot on killing 20 different processes in one second |
| 18:38.50 | kerio | it does |
| 18:38.51 | divVerent | I mean... it seems to work best in MicroB and the youtube mobile views |
| 18:38.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 18:38.59 | divVerent | but the media player can't seak in these rtsp(?) streams |
| 18:39.18 | freemangordon | divVerent: hmm, what? this is flash what you see |
| 18:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will reboot on killing same process 3 times in one minute |
| 18:39.27 | divVerent | freemangordon: depends |
| 18:39.33 | freemangordon | also, for yourtube it is best to use qml/cutetube |
| 18:39.34 | divVerent | freemangordon: youtube desktop view on N900 uses flash |
| 18:39.39 | divVerent | youtube mobile view uses a text link to some stream |
| 18:39.47 | divVerent | the former shows at 2fps |
| 18:39.54 | divVerent | the latter works at full fps but can't seek |
| 18:39.57 | freemangordon | hmm, never tried mobile version, TBH |
| 18:39.58 | kerio | fullscreen youtube videos work kinda smoothly for me |
| 18:40.06 | freemangordon | yep |
| 18:40.08 | divVerent | need to try this qml thing then |
| 18:40.23 | kerio | anyway, there are firefox extensions to get the link to the mp4 video |
| 18:40.26 | divVerent | I know the N900 TECHNICALLY can handle youtube content just fine |
| 18:40.30 | divVerent | I mean, downloading and playing works |
| 18:40.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | also it doesn't make *any* sense to kill processes "slow enough" since dsme will restart them anyway, no matter how slow you kill them |
| 18:40.43 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: it SOMEWHAT makes sense |
| 18:40.47 | divVerent | but not with the huge sleeps this script does |
| 18:40.52 | divVerent | it takes like 30 sec to run throuhg |
| 18:41.06 | divVerent | I did manage to reboot the N900 by killing browserd 10 times by uparrow-enter only |
| 18:41.22 | divVerent | but the exact threshold I do not know |
| 18:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | dsmetool --help |
| 18:42.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's your exact threshold, unless the init.d/* job (or whatever) starts the process via dsmetool with different thresholds |
| 18:44.15 | divVerent | hehe |
| 18:44.30 | divVerent | doesn't that mean one has to wait for 6 seconds between kills to be safe? |
| 18:44.51 | divVerent | is the threshold counted separately per managed process, or does any kill count into the same threshold? |
| 18:45.32 | divVerent | if it is a per-process count, then OptimizeN900 shouldn't need any sleeps at all ;) |
| 18:45.58 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.25) |
| 18:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, since dsme monitors each process separately |
| 18:47.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and each process has it's own thresholds |
| 18:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | (if any) |
| 18:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | (see -o) |
| 18:47.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to remove monitors? |
| 18:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and -r |
| 18:48.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: -k |
| 18:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:48.33 | divVerent | oh, just read the cssu-thumb page again... so cssu-thumb no longer uses a changed kernel? |
| 18:48.34 | divVerent | even better |
| 18:48.46 | freemangordon | killing/restarting processes every couple of seconds will eat the battery in hours |
| 18:48.51 | divVerent | as that means anything else can be done/undone on the device itself via backupmenu, if I get this right |
| 18:49.03 | divVerent | freemangordon: OptimizeN900 only does it once on request |
| 18:49.07 | divVerent | so that is sure no issue |
| 18:49.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: you got sth wrong there |
| 18:49.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | thumb will crash like mad with stock kernel |
| 18:49.51 | divVerent | with kernel-power, I mean |
| 18:49.54 | divVerent | I am already running that one |
| 18:49.57 | freemangordon | divVerent: honestly, I dont know what this thing does, never used it and don;t plan to ;) |
| 18:49.59 | divVerent | If you have kernel-power v51r1 or above, no custom kernel will be installed, as needed errata workaround is included in kernel-power v51r1 (and above) |
| 18:50.05 | kerio | indeed |
| 18:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: +1000 |
| 18:50.27 | divVerent | freemangordon: I had hoped it can help work around some nasty crashes/hangs... |
| 18:50.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | smells like "ACME registry optimizer" |
| 18:50.34 | divVerent | but the only thing that DOES hang sometimes is not killed by it |
| 18:50.37 | divVerent | well, it IS harmless though |
| 18:50.44 | divVerent | it's a mere shell script killing stuff ;) |
| 18:50.54 | divVerent | but, WHY DOES NOT NOT KILL THAT mafw media player thing |
| 18:50.58 | divVerent | THAT one sometimes DOES hang |
| 18:51.01 | divVerent | and then videos never unpause |
| 18:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW an idiot elaborate |
| 18:51.25 | divVerent | I mean, this script is a "shotgun", but the only useful target it doesn't hit ;) |
| 18:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse, smells like.... crappatch |
| 18:51.57 | freemangordon | divVerent: the only really useful thing AFAIK is the software that was used to tweak nr_requests, can;t remember the name. but it is not really neede, the same thing is achieved by a simple script in /etc/event.d |
| 18:52.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | swappolube |
| 18:52.46 | freemangordon | divVerent: every other "optimize" scripts does nothing(in the best case) but harm(in usual case) |
| 18:52.53 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 18:52.54 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, exactly |
| 18:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, exactly ;-D |
| 18:53.25 | kerio | yeah, exactly |
| 18:53.32 | freemangordon | hehe :D |
| 18:53.38 | ShadowJK | has obtained a samsung microsdxc pro 64G card :3 |
| 18:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there was much to "optimize" in maemo5, Nokia most likely had done it with PR1.3 the latest |
| 18:53.51 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: congrats |
| 18:53.58 | kerio | ShadowJK: :3 |
| 18:53.59 | kerio | bench? |
| 18:54.03 | freemangordon | or better said - welcome to the club :) |
| 18:54.08 | ShadowJK | kerio; not yet |
| 18:54.15 | kerio | aww 3: |
| 18:54.43 | freemangordon | kerio: hmm, you don't trust my benchmarks? :( |
| 18:54.44 | divVerent | hm... just tried installing cssu-thumb, but something is not right with the instructions... it did not ask me for any accept/done stuff |
| 18:54.52 | divVerent | but immediately went to the point that a SW update blinks |
| 18:54.54 | divVerent | is that normal? |
| 18:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders how 16 pcs 64GB uSD stacked on top of each other would look like |
| 18:55.07 | divVerent | it IS the right SW update |
| 18:55.09 | kerio | freemangordon: what were your benchmarks? |
| 18:55.12 | freemangordon | divVerent: you have KP already installed, what do expect to be asked for? |
| 18:55.14 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; i don't trust crystaldisk ;) |
| 18:55.19 | divVerent | freemangordon: EULAs? ;) |
| 18:55.35 | divVerent | freemangordon: mainly saying that I ended up in step 7 and not 5 :P |
| 18:56.19 | ShadowJK | Actually, crystaldisk's methodology of first creating a large file, then testing, clears the card's high-speed log-structured SLC cache :) |
| 18:56.20 | freemangordon | talks to the phone |
| 18:56.38 | freemangordon | *on |
| 18:57.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinking back, I pondered (~1980) to create digital audio storage to replace the tape in Phillips cassette, when I looked at that transparent demagnetizer electronic cassette |
| 18:57.25 | divVerent | also, I wonder if CSSU enabler needs to be run again or not |
| 18:57.29 | divVerent | when going from CSSU to CSSU-thumb |
| 18:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | back then, I thought: "maybe I'll wittness the times when this becomes feasible) |
| 18:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | " |
| 18:58.16 | divVerent | probably not, as no icon of it appeared in the application list |
| 18:58.25 | *** join/#maemo futpib_ (~futpib@89.106.197.119) |
| 18:58.45 | freemangordon | divVerent: EULA? what EULA if you are on CSSU already?!? |
| 18:58.50 | divVerent | freemangordon: ;) |
| 18:59.00 | divVerent | mainly referring that the list of steps to follow is not really exact |
| 18:59.11 | divVerent | I _suppose_ it is all right |
| 18:59.16 | freemangordon | divVerent: they are meant for non-CSSU users |
| 18:59.36 | divVerent | and will I have to run CSSU enabler again manually? |
| 18:59.39 | divVerent | it got updated in the process |
| 18:59.41 | divVerent | that is why I am asking |
| 18:59.51 | freemangordon | divVerent: you can check in settings->about CSSU after the reboot |
| 18:59.52 | divVerent | but no icon of it appeared in the applications list, as I already have run it once |
| 19:00.03 | freemangordon | sure, it is how it is supposed to be |
| 19:00.28 | divVerent | JFTR, HAM sucks ;) |
| 19:00.41 | divVerent | I wonder how often it is running apt-get update, given how slow it is ;) |
| 19:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, HAM is teaching you ZEN |
| 19:00.57 | divVerent | another way to phrase it this is |
| 19:01.16 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: well, it'll be interesting to compare your results with crystaldiskmark's |
| 19:01.45 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; oh, I ran it on that adata card I talked about, and it gave higher results |
| 19:02.05 | freemangordon | but according to iostat I have average 2-3MB/s, with top of abot 18MB/s |
| 19:02.10 | freemangordon | on the device that si |
| 19:02.14 | freemangordon | *is |
| 19:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | go figure: 1TB in a volume of a sugarcube |
| 19:02.42 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: doesn't sound impressive to me yet |
| 19:02.55 | divVerent | 16 microSD cards of 64GB each stacked... is about a sugar cube ;) |
| 19:02.58 | ShadowJK | My current sandisk extreme pro does 5-10M sometimes when swapping heavily, and that 18-20 on bulk io :) |
| 19:03.19 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: what FS? |
| 19:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | even in times of CD you had to carry well... more than you could carry, to take one TB with you |
| 19:03.31 | ShadowJK | using ext4 |
| 19:03.32 | freemangordon | I am talking about ext4 |
| 19:03.44 | *** join/#maemo frafl (~Thunderbi@e178078063.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:03.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is this a way to say that you're old? |
| 19:03.52 | divVerent | BTW, I recently encountered a weird fontconfig or xterm bug/feature/issue |
| 19:03.53 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: read or write? |
| 19:03.59 | divVerent | I have two fonts, both I exported using fontforge |
| 19:04.07 | divVerent | but for one, I cannot select the "Medium" typeface in xterm |
| 19:04.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I'm an adult |
| 19:04.10 | divVerent | it will always show up as bold |
| 19:04.13 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; both, iirc |
| 19:04.22 | divVerent | workaround: telling fontconfig via config file to not embolden this font |
| 19:04.27 | divVerent | (both have no bold variant) |
| 19:04.28 | kerio | i'm also an adult, and i barely remember that time :D |
| 19:05.02 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: however, I will wait for your benchmarks, so we'll be able to compare |
| 19:05.40 | ShadowJK | iirc sandisk claims 95R / 90W for the card, but that's in UHS-I low voltage mode |
| 19:05.47 | ShadowJK | which n900 can't do |
| 19:06.52 | *** join/#maemo futpib__ (~futpib@89.106.197.92) |
| 19:07.10 | ShadowJK | now getting 15M write to the sandisk on-device.. |
| 19:07.50 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: yesh, we can't go over 18-20 afaik |
| 19:07.58 | *** join/#maemo valeriusL (~valerius@178.76.208.218) |
| 19:08.00 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 19:08.06 | freemangordon | tries to remember the clock |
| 19:08.11 | freemangordon | 50MHz? |
| 19:08.38 | freemangordon | or 80MHz? |
| 19:10.06 | freemangordon | divVerent: did cssu-thumb install fine? |
| 19:10.08 | ShadowJK | I think it's 50MHz |
| 19:10.31 | ShadowJK | iirc uhs adds a 100MHz DDR mode |
| 19:13.52 | divVerent | freemangordon: no |
| 19:13.58 | divVerent | it told me to use Nokia PC suite |
| 19:14.03 | divVerent | which I don#t have |
| 19:14.07 | divVerent | what did I do wrong then? |
| 19:14.24 | freemangordon | divVerent: oh, come on, read the "problems" tab in HAM |
| 19:14.52 | divVerent | #a problems tab? |
| 19:14.55 | freemangordon | you have some conflicting package installed |
| 19:14.58 | divVerent | ah, ok |
| 19:15.02 | freemangordon | yes, in HAM |
| 19:15.02 | divVerent | why can#t it TELL me so? ;) |
| 19:15.12 | freemangordon | ZEN, remember? :P |
| 19:15.32 | divVerent | I see no errors there, though |
| 19:15.35 | divVerent | in the apt log output |
| 19:15.44 | divVerent | apartt from some weird |
| 19:15.49 | divVerent | Removing '(null)' |
| 19:16.01 | divVerent | which however still got an "OK" after it |
| 19:16.18 | divVerent | as well as the GPG errors that always come |
| 19:16.30 | divVerent | looks like I'll now try via apt on the command line |
| 19:17.29 | freemangordon | divVerent: check the "problems" tab |
| 19:17.36 | divVerent | there is no such tab |
| 19:17.51 | freemangordon | there is, if yopu are told to use PC-suite |
| 19:17.56 | freemangordon | *you |
| 19:18.29 | divVerent | I was told in a modal dialog |
| 19:18.36 | divVerent | that only had a button to create a backup |
| 19:18.42 | divVerent | which I did, but then it didn't continue either |
| 19:18.53 | divVerent | I can't give you the exact wording as it shows up in German here |
| 19:18.57 | freemangordon | go back, and check "installing" or whatever it was called |
| 19:19.15 | divVerent | ok, we'll see in a few hours ;) when HAM is done searching again |
| 19:19.16 | freemangordon | divVerent: me speaks no German :D |
| 19:19.29 | divVerent | via command-line apt, I did notice the mp-community-fremantle-pr is "held back" |
| 19:19.40 | divVerent | which is SURE not what I want to happen |
| 19:20.07 | freemangordon | exactly, that is why you should check "problems" tab in HAM to see what is the exact problem |
| 19:20.10 | DigitalPioneer | you got PM |
| 19:20.18 | divVerent | let's see if I find the tab this time |
| 19:20.19 | BigBoxDriver | Ja. "Was war denn defekt. Keine Ahnung, wir konnten plötzlich keine Daten mehr lesn |
| 19:20.30 | DigitalPioneer | divVerent: ^^^ |
| 19:21.06 | divVerent | ok, for checking |
| 19:21.13 | divVerent | I am on the update view of HAM, click "Update all" |
| 19:21.24 | divVerent | it asks me if I am fine with using 42.5 MB: I clock continue. |
| 19:21.28 | BigBoxDriver | Und was habt ihr dann gemacht? "Platten ausgebaut und die neuen, grösseren Platten eingebaut. Jetzt läuft wieder alles. Ne, wir wissen nicht in welcher reihenfolge die platten angehängt waren. Muss man(n) das? " ... |
| 19:21.29 | freemangordon | no, cleck on "maemo5 community update" |
| 19:21.31 | BigBoxDriver | Ohne worte |
| 19:21.32 | freemangordon | *click |
| 19:21.39 | divVerent | freemangordon: OH, only this ONE package, not the others |
| 19:21.47 | freemangordon | yes |
| 19:21.58 | divVerent | ok |
| 19:22.03 | divVerent | then it shows preparing installation |
| 19:22.06 | freemangordon | though it should not matter that much |
| 19:22.11 | divVerent | then asks me if I really want to install the package (the fine print dialog) |
| 19:22.17 | divVerent | I agree and press continue |
| 19:22.32 | divVerent | OH |
| 19:22.34 | divVerent | THERE is a tab |
| 19:22.40 | divVerent | if I press details instead here, BEFOREinstalling |
| 19:22.40 | freemangordon | ORLY? |
| 19:22.47 | divVerent | sorry |
| 19:22.50 | divVerent | I was not using HAM much |
| 19:22.50 | freemangordon | :P |
| 19:22.54 | divVerent | was not even aware this dialog HAS tabs |
| 19:23.18 | divVerent | ok, curl I can remove |
| 19:23.26 | freemangordon | hmm, what? |
| 19:23.28 | divVerent | but hate it... now I have to kill apt-worker again to remove curl |
| 19:23.31 | freemangordon | no, you can't |
| 19:23.34 | divVerent | and then wait AGAIn 5 minutes for HAM to start up |
| 19:23.38 | divVerent | because HAM has locked the dpkg stuff |
| 19:23.39 | freemangordon | wait |
| 19:24.00 | freemangordon | don;t remove curl |
| 19:24.22 | freemangordon | kerio: do you remember which repo was this missing curld dependency in? |
| 19:24.26 | freemangordon | *curl |
| 19:24.28 | divVerent | it's curl BTW, not libcurl... |
| 19:24.29 | kerio | extras-testing or extras-devel |
| 19:24.34 | divVerent | the comamndline tool., I can live without it. |
| 19:24.51 | kerio | if it's a dependency, you can't live without it |
| 19:24.55 | divVerent | I had installed it manually |
| 19:25.00 | divVerent | so some shell script I wrote works |
| 19:25.07 | divVerent | I can just as well make it work via any other http get method |
| 19:25.26 | *** join/#maemo mlong (~mlong@ip98-178-168-149.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 19:25.31 | DigitalPioneer | :-/ drop:: May 10 18:16 /etc/passwd |
| 19:25.42 | divVerent | in fact, this script originally was using wget ;) |
| 19:25.43 | freemangordon | divVerent: CSSU-t upgrades libcurl and curl, the problem is that there is a package missing in the repo (don;t ask ME why) |
| 19:26.05 | divVerent | my guess: it updates libcurl, but has no matching curl package |
| 19:26.11 | kerio | DigitalPioneer: ? |
| 19:26.28 | divVerent | that I can live with, there is so many other ways to retrieve via http... |
| 19:26.35 | DigitalPioneer | accounts on drop.m.o are not regularly updated |
| 19:26.40 | freemangordon | divVerent: BTW what is the exact error message? |
| 19:27.09 | divVerent | that it did not show, but I don't even care any more if it works now. |
| 19:27.14 | DigitalPioneer | and no user divVerent in etc/passwd of drop |
| 19:27.16 | freemangordon | divVerent: I care |
| 19:27.17 | DigitalPioneer | of course |
| 19:27.25 | divVerent | freemangordon: the exact message at which point? |
| 19:27.33 | divVerent | the message that told me to use Nokia PC suite? |
| 19:27.34 | freemangordon | divVerent: in problems tab |
| 19:27.45 | divVerent | it was a conflict, but I no longer have the tab open |
| 19:28.00 | divVerent | it wasn't the real error anyway, the real error I'd have gotten via apt-get install ... ;) |
| 19:28.10 | freemangordon | and it is? |
| 19:28.15 | divVerent | I don't have the tab open |
| 19:28.24 | divVerent | and currently am waiting for HAM to list the updates again |
| 19:28.29 | freemangordon | meh :( |
| 19:28.36 | divVerent | I can tell you the exact error after the upgrade |
| 19:28.40 | divVerent | by apt-get install curl ;) |
| 19:28.50 | divVerent | as that should then refuse for the same reason |
| 19:29.05 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (~xfade@d5152FFD8.static.telenet.be) |
| 19:29.29 | divVerent | but my BETS are on libcurl and curl not matching in version |
| 19:29.37 | Win7Mac | wonders if this a general help cannel? |
| 19:29.49 | Win7Mac | Are there any plans for updating our aged Wiki? A promising chat started on sunday: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-05-12.log.html#t2013-05-12T20:16:11 |
| 19:29.55 | divVerent | why can't I switch to xterm while HAM downloads stuff... could verify this right now via apt-cache show then ;) |
| 19:30.05 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@e214-001.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 19:30.19 | freemangordon | divVerent: ctrl->backspace? |
| 19:30.25 | divVerent | does not work |
| 19:30.29 | divVerent | it's what I tried first |
| 19:30.34 | divVerent | only then the faded out button :P |
| 19:30.34 | freemangordon | weird |
| 19:30.45 | divVerent | HAM does this |
| 19:30.49 | divVerent | another reason why I don't like it |
| 19:31.09 | divVerent | does it happen to use XGrabPointer for this? ;) |
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| 19:31.39 | freemangordon | well, HAM in cssu-thumb is about 2 times faster. but nevertheless HAM is what MUST be used for system upgrades |
| 19:31.47 | divVerent | yes |
| 19:31.50 | freemangordon | unless you really know what you;re doing |
| 19:31.54 | divVerent | or rather, MUST? |
| 19:32.01 | divVerent | I thought it's only needed for the large update bundles |
| 19:32.05 | divVerent | like cssu, or cssu-thumb |
| 19:32.31 | freemangordon | for "system updates" and cssu-... happen to be such ;) |
| 19:32.34 | divVerent | for anything else I use raw apt-get upgrade, and fix "kept back" on my own (because dist-upgrade IS broken) |
| 19:32.47 | divVerent | i.e. for the minor updates that happen all day |
| 19:33.00 | freemangordon | cssu is not updated every day |
| 19:33.10 | freemangordon | rather once in a couple of months |
| 19:33.10 | divVerent | I have not seen it updated once yet |
| 19:33.16 | divVerent | that about fits |
| 19:33.20 | divVerent | I have the N900 since about March |
| 19:33.27 | divVerent | or was it Feb |
| 19:33.33 | freemangordon | divVerent: becaue you're on stable, and it still sufffers from repo problems |
| 19:33.38 | divVerent | hehe |
| 19:33.59 | divVerent | and still, why shouldn't I update it manually? |
| 19:34.05 | divVerent | normally, when there is a reason not to, apt will tell me |
| 19:34.19 | divVerent | like, when there is a nontrivial conflict, I would use HAM anyway, hoping it manages to resolve it |
| 19:34.35 | freemangordon | for various reasons I am not going to elaborate on, but HAM is made for system updates |
| 19:34.39 | divVerent | because the standard debian way of resolving these is too tedious ;) |
| 19:34.49 | divVerent | also, how do I even know if an update is a "system update"? |
| 19:35.00 | divVerent | as in, how do you define that term |
| 19:35.04 | freemangordon | guess what "Maemo5 update" is |
| 19:35.07 | divVerent | whenever a mp-*-pr package got updated? |
| 19:35.09 | divVerent | ah, ok |
| 19:35.11 | divVerent | then you do mean that |
| 19:35.24 | divVerent | yes, last time this happened, I think I had it happen ONCE, apt-get could not resolve conflicts, and I went with HAM then |
| 19:36.06 | divVerent | still hate HAM's insistence on waiting for minutes on virtually every action |
| 19:36.23 | divVerent | why can't it scan deps ONCE? ;) |
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| 19:36.53 | freemangordon | divVerent: HAM does a whole bunch of things apt-get does not, one of them trying to set a way to continue the update in case the device reboots in the middle of installation |
| 19:37.10 | divVerent | ah, good to know |
| 19:37.19 | divVerent | now if only it weren't so awfully slow... ;) |
| 19:37.24 | freemangordon | also it puts the device offline, stops hildon-home and hildon-desktop, etc, etc |
| 19:37.46 | divVerent | that's the parts I do NOT like on every single upgrade ;) |
| 19:37.53 | freemangordon | divVerent: slowness comes from you having extras-devel enabled ;) |
| 19:38.03 | divVerent | it was slow before I enabled that |
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| 19:38.09 | freemangordon | and axtras-testing maybe |
| 19:38.14 | freemangordon | *extras |
| 19:38.20 | divVerent | well, probably these make it EVEN slower |
| 19:38.32 | freemangordon | no, this makes it 10 times slower |
| 19:38.56 | divVerent | that's why it is now EVEN slower than I remembered ;) |
| 19:39.03 | divVerent | it was annoying me before that already |
| 19:39.18 | divVerent | ok, device reboots now |
| 19:39.24 | freemangordon | and there is absolutely no point to have extras-devel and extras-testing both enabled |
| 19:39.28 | divVerent | kernel and busybox loaded, as I got bootmenu to show |
| 19:39.32 | divVerent | I don't |
| 19:39.39 | freemangordon | good |
| 19:39.53 | divVerent | boot failed, am on dark nokia logo now... now unplugged USB, trying again |
| 19:39.56 | divVerent | maybe the standard boot bug |
| 19:40.21 | freemangordon | hmm? which bug? |
| 19:40.28 | divVerent | that it often doesn't boot when plugged in USB |
| 19:40.32 | divVerent | now it works, after unplugging |
| 19:40.42 | freemangordon | that was fixed in KP51 |
| 19:40.44 | divVerent | it seems to have showed the unlock screen faster |
| 19:40.47 | divVerent | but that might be placebo |
| 19:40.52 | freemangordon | for sure |
| 19:40.55 | divVerent | I can tell you it is not fixed here |
| 19:41.37 | freemangordon | I can tell you it is, because it was me to fix it ;). So you maybe suffer from another bug, not in KP |
| 19:42.02 | divVerent | about CSSU shows thumb |
| 19:42.08 | divVerent | yes |
| 19:42.11 | freemangordon | nice :) |
| 19:42.16 | divVerent | I am just saying "one bug doing that" still happens to me |
| 19:42.33 | freemangordon | hmm, actually maybe it is not a bug |
| 19:42.46 | freemangordon | wait, do you have bb-power installer? |
| 19:42.50 | divVerent | used + swaps is now slightly below 256M |
| 19:42.51 | freemangordon | *installed |
| 19:43.00 | divVerent | yes, I think so |
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| 19:43.18 | divVerent | I remember some dep pulled it once |
| 19:43.40 | divVerent | the boot bug is actually a bit more "interesting"... |
| 19:43.48 | divVerent | when I had the encrypted fs stuff on, I also was running fbcon |
| 19:43.54 | divVerent | so I could see that DSME detected the boot state as SHUTDOWN |
| 19:44.00 | divVerent | when I am on USB |
| 19:44.01 | freemangordon | did you change your /home FS type? |
| 19:44.07 | divVerent | it is changed back now |
| 19:44.16 | divVerent | now that I have the workaround to not store the PW |
| 19:44.56 | freemangordon | divVerent: ok, some reported the same/similar behaviour with /home on ext4 |
| 19:46.24 | divVerent | hm... it looks like HAM has a new bug/feature ;) |
| 19:46.25 | freemangordon | however, seems your device is heavily tweaked, so that "reboot bug" could be caused by a lot of things. anyway, I'll appreciate if you try to find WTF is going on if you have time and will someday :) |
| 19:46.32 | divVerent | "checking updates, please wait" the progress bar flickered a lot |
| 19:46.39 | divVerent | while waiting near forever ;) |
| 19:46.56 | divVerent | never had it flicker before, not that I really care, it's just cosmetic |
| 19:47.20 | freemangordon | divVerent: it works faster, that's why it "flickers" |
| 19:47.37 | freemangordon | disable extras-devel and you'll see the difference |
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| 19:53.43 | divVerent | is there maybe any REALLY RECOMMENDED packages from community-thumb I should install? |
| 19:53.59 | divVerent | or is all important referenced from the -pr |
| 19:54.05 | divVerent | IIRC it should be |
| 19:54.50 | divVerent | dosbox now needs libxxf86vm1? XVidmode on Maemo? WTF ;)+ |
| 19:54.51 | freemangordon | yep, the only thing in cssu-thumb which you might want to install by hand id busybox-power, if you already have it instaleld |
| 19:55.41 | freemangordon | divVerent: ooh, I compiled dosbox a week ago and but ut there, feel free to test it :D |
| 19:55.42 | divVerent | as for curl: it now installs fine, from the thumb repo |
| 19:55.47 | divVerent | freemangordon: hehe |
| 19:55.55 | divVerent | basically, I suggest that this was accidental dependency creep ;) |
| 19:56.05 | divVerent | the N900 has no way to support video mode changes |
| 19:56.18 | divVerent | so PROBABLY dosbox should have been compiled without the support |
| 19:56.23 | divVerent | it's harmless though, just won*t do any good either |
| 19:56.49 | freemangordon | divVerent: well, I just pulled the sorce, fixed the targe CPU and dpkg-buildpackage |
| 19:56.55 | freemangordon | *source |
| 19:56.58 | divVerent | I see |
| 19:57.02 | divVerent | in Debian this dep does make sense |
| 19:57.03 | freemangordon | didn;t play with configure options |
| 19:57.11 | divVerent | on desktop systems Vidmode still can help, even on TFTs |
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| 19:57.31 | divVerent | but AFAIK the X config on the N900 supports no other modes than the default |
| 19:57.46 | divVerent | not sure if the display logic would if told so |
| 19:58.12 | freemangordon | divVerent: check http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1341260&postcount=237 why |
| 19:58.50 | divVerent | oh, cool, so basically, this dosbox upgrade was a major speedup? |
| 19:58.57 | divVerent | that probably means lemmings will now work |
| 19:59.01 | divVerent | as last time I tried it ALMOST worked |
| 19:59.04 | freemangordon | no idea, never tried it before |
| 19:59.05 | divVerent | (or, 100% with music off) |
| 19:59.11 | divVerent | music was stuttering |
| 19:59.15 | divVerent | so any bit would probably help |
| 19:59.20 | freemangordon | but " -march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s" |
| 19:59.39 | divVerent | also, the OpenGL support you added (by the same thing) is good |
| 19:59.47 | divVerent | it probably means dosbox now can HW scale up to full res |
| 19:59.55 | freemangordon | actually I was able to run descent-3d, but unfortunately it is unplayable |
| 19:59.58 | divVerent | sounds like a speedup for 320x200 games |
| 20:00.10 | freemangordon | opengl does not work |
| 20:00.14 | freemangordon | but overlay works |
| 20:00.20 | divVerent | ok, still good |
| 20:00.23 | divVerent | ah rigt, Maemo just has GLES |
| 20:00.28 | freemangordon | n900 does not have opengl ;) |
| 20:00.30 | divVerent | although |
| 20:00.32 | freemangordon | yep |
| 20:00.35 | divVerent | the little GL needed for SW scaling... |
| 20:00.43 | divVerent | COULD also be written in the common denominator of GL and GLES |
| 20:00.50 | divVerent | context initialization still differs a lot |
| 20:01.20 | freemangordon | well, I don;t know how much is the difference between openg and gles 1.1 |
| 20:01.26 | freemangordon | forget about 2.0 |
| 20:01.29 | divVerent | well, there is a lot ;) |
| 20:01.36 | divVerent | GL2.0 e.g. is a superset of GL1.1 |
| 20:01.40 | divVerent | while GLES is not |
| 20:01.42 | freemangordon | hmm, no |
| 20:01.47 | freemangordon | oh, wait |
| 20:01.48 | divVerent | GLES1 is pure fixed function stuff, GLES2 is pure shader stuff |
| 20:01.56 | freemangordon | I am talking about gles 1.1 and 2.0 |
| 20:02.02 | freemangordon | exactly |
| 20:02.06 | divVerent | so GLES2 is quite GL2.0-like, but "strict" (no use of old GL1.1 stuff) |
| 20:02.16 | freemangordon | yep |
| 20:02.32 | divVerent | DarkPlaces actually has GLES2 support ;) |
| 20:02.38 | divVerent | it uses mostly common code with GL2.0 path |
| 20:02.43 | divVerent | but context is created totally different |
| 20:02.58 | divVerent | also, GL2.0 code got quite some adjustments for that |
| 20:03.01 | divVerent | to get rid of GL1.1 legacies |
| 20:03.07 | freemangordon | divVerent: btw if you know a bit about GL/ES stuff, you can help a lot with embedlite. gecko23 that is ;) |
| 20:03.07 | divVerent | and some other stuff GLES2 does not have |
| 20:03.27 | freemangordon | if you have will ofc |
| 20:03.56 | divVerent | not YET, but maybe later when I have SDK running ;) |
| 20:04.59 | freemangordon | divVerent: here talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85191 is some info, if you are interested |
| 20:05.33 | freemangordon | but so far we have HW accelerated HTML video playback, GL rendering and webgl (almost) working |
| 20:05.39 | divVerent | hm... cutetube and qml both pull LOTS of ffmpeg stuff |
| 20:05.55 | freemangordon | divVerent: you don;t need both ;) |
| 20:06.10 | divVerent | I mean |
| 20:06.17 | freemangordon | it is the same SW by same author, first using plain Qt, second - qml |
| 20:06.27 | divVerent | the default player gstreamer stuff plays via the DSP |
| 20:06.33 | divVerent | so do I really need something ffmpeg based? |
| 20:06.34 | freemangordon | yes |
| 20:06.36 | divVerent | trying nvideo first, then |
| 20:06.40 | freemangordon | the same does qmltube |
| 20:06.47 | divVerent | it also uses ffmpeg |
| 20:06.52 | freemangordon | oh, wait |
| 20:06.53 | divVerent | at least via package dependencies |
| 20:07.00 | divVerent | I will probably install ffmpeg stuff anyway sooner or later |
| 20:07.04 | divVerent | and be it for porting mpv to Maemo |
| 20:07.08 | freemangordon | i meant - yes, it is playing through HW accel gstreamer |
| 20:07.16 | divVerent | mpv (that mplayer fork) is currently getting a mouse GUI done... |
| 20:07.20 | divVerent | with that, it should be usable on Maemo |
| 20:07.31 | freemangordon | ffmpeg is pulled as a dependency for gstreamer-ffmpeg afaik |
| 20:07.32 | divVerent | a simple OSD with play pause forward backward buttons ;) |
| 20:07.42 | freemangordon | because of the swx container, iirc |
| 20:08.00 | divVerent | gstreamer-ffmpeg is not installed by cutetube/qml |
| 20:08.25 | freemangordon | it has some qt media dependency ;) |
| 20:08.50 | freemangordon | qt or qml, can't remember right now |
| 20:09.17 | divVerent | anyway, cssu-thumb works great apparently |
| 20:09.22 | divVerent | thanks |
| 20:09.37 | divVerent | let's see how much the few extra MB free will help |
| 20:10.15 | freemangordon | divVerent: try microb ;) |
| 20:10.42 | divVerent | if only it had tabs ;) |
| 20:10.54 | freemangordon | hmm, it has :) |
| 20:10.55 | divVerent | I highly prefer Opera's tab UI over MicroB's window mess... |
| 20:11.00 | divVerent | it now has? |
| 20:11.15 | freemangordon | it has it since the beginning |
| 20:11.23 | divVerent | no |
| 20:11.27 | divVerent | it only can make new windows |
| 20:11.59 | freemangordon | type browser --help in cli ;) |
| 20:12.01 | divVerent | but well, my other reason for Opera is that proxy caching server |
| 20:12.42 | divVerent | that does nothing... |
| 20:12.44 | divVerent | what should it do? |
| 20:12.59 | freemangordon | browser --view=tab |
| 20:14.46 | divVerent | what should happen then? |
| 20:15.07 | freemangordon | you'll have tabs. well, not functional, but still :) |
| 20:15.16 | divVerent | I see no tab bar |
| 20:15.23 | freemangordon | on the left |
| 20:15.49 | divVerent | no,but maybe browser switcher screwed that up |
| 20:15.58 | divVerent | also tried microb --view=tab |
| 20:16.14 | divVerent | still... I really need that compressing proxy feature of Opera |
| 20:16.18 | freemangordon | no, it is browser --view=tab |
| 20:16.19 | divVerent | for not using too much mobile traffic |
| 20:16.27 | divVerent | that starts opera ;) |
| 20:16.49 | freemangordon | however, going to have some sleep |
| 20:16.52 | freemangordon | night |
| 20:17.16 | divVerent | good night |
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| 23:27.15 | AndrewX192 | Got my new Nokia N900 today, working great |
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| 23:45.30 | M4rtinK2 | AndrewX192: congratulation ! :) |
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