| 00:00.31 | eccerr0r | I figure that the phone will be in standby most of the time for me, it's not like my primary computer :o |
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| 00:02.27 | eccerr0r | (this battery suffered two years of abuse in a Nokia 5230...but maybe not nearly as much "abuse" as in an n900 that drains it faster...) |
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| 00:08.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | OK guys, you asked for it, here you are: 3 entities, 2 councils :-/// |
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| 00:16.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: big fail |
| 00:17.59 | Woody14619 | how so? |
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| 00:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | non-identical |
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| 00:22.33 | Woody14619 | well, 4 out of 5? :P |
| 00:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | one or two trolls were thinking it's a nice idea to vote different for both elections |
| 00:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, vote for one election only |
| 00:23.20 | Win7Mac | 1 or 2 were enough? |
| 00:23.37 | Woody14619 | well, such is life. :P |
| 00:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and me losing interest in all this also is life |
| 00:24.00 | Win7Mac | *1 or 2*??? |
| 00:25.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, thanks for voting to everybody |
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| 00:25.58 | Woody14619 | win7mac actually, like 6 or 7. but, yes... |
| 00:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | results are here for everybody to watch and muse: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=33 http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=31 |
| 00:26.18 | Woody14619 | there were delats in the sub votes too. :P |
| 00:28.45 | Woody14619 | k... well.. there you have it. :) off for a bit to eat & what not. |
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| 00:35.39 | Woody14619 | congrats to all 6 new council... 4+1 & 4+1. :) |
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| 00:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I started this whole thing to unify both councils into one. I'm not going to attend two councils for 6 months, and I'm not going to adjust what I promised to what this friggin 2 fools made of that election. Either I find a way to unify the both councils or i'll step down |
| 00:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can live with two councils for a few weeks maybe |
| 00:43.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I don't like to have two council meeting, two council meeting minutes, and discussions^2 with BoD for the next 6 months |
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| 00:43.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't do that, physically |
| 00:44.12 | fmunozs | there are just two different persons, isn't it possible to have them both on the council? |
| 00:44.31 | fmunozs | people* |
| 00:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 00:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no rule to have unelected members on either of both councils |
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| 00:46.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there's no rule that allows 6 MCC members either |
| 00:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is a way to unify both bodies, but that has to get discussed non-public |
| 00:48.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that won't happen today, it's late in europe |
| 00:50.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | also, as already said, we don't need to unify noth entities tonight, but we shouldn't wait til next election is near |
| 00:51.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/noth/both/ |
| 00:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, welcome on board merlin1991 chem|st qwazix thedead1440 sixwheeledbeast |
| 01:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | since there seem to be ambiguities, I haven't said I'd step back right away! No way! I say I can't sustain running in 2 councils for extended periods of time |
| 01:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | but your council wasn't your council if we hadn't thought about a plan B already. We will find a way to handle that as well, I'm rather sure about that |
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| 02:07.33 | shawnjefferson | On election results: the huge amount of votes you got, joerg, is an indication of the community's appreciation of the work you are doing. |
| 02:08.22 | shawnjefferson | too bad about the differing results, but this probably wasn't the best way to address this issue-but worth a shot I guess. |
| 02:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | shawnjefferson: rhanks a lot :-) |
| 02:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks even |
| 02:10.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas it was the only way |
| 02:10.16 | shawnjefferson | why not a referendum? Cut and dry, easy for both users and BoD and MCC to interpret. You won't get a small minority screwing things up either. |
| 02:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to a certain person in HiFo |
| 02:11.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | a referendum is a tool of MCC, which has no saying about any HiFo related things incl HFC |
| 02:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I been well aware of a possibility that a minority screws up stuff for everybody, which is not a true democratic spirit in that procedure |
| 02:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | but, as mentioned above, it been the only possible way |
| 02:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for HiFo BoD accepting/appointing MCC as HFC |
| 02:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the we would have had a unified HFC/MCC *before* elections, and everything fine |
| 02:14.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | but one person in HiFo wasn't happy with that approach |
| 02:15.25 | shawnjefferson | should have been, but I'm aware of the issues with that board member even if I dont understand him at all. |
| 02:16.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | welcome to the club! ;-D |
| 02:17.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're a really huge club already |
| 02:19.44 | shawnjefferson | I'm sure we'll get it sorted out somehow. |
| 02:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really a problem, 4/5 of both bodies are identical |
| 02:21.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I said above, we anticipated exactly such issue and have a plan b for that |
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| 02:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's however bad style and not politically correct to discuss this plan b publicly |
| 02:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | for obvious reasons |
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| 02:27.14 | shawnjefferson | good luck! |
| 02:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! :-) |
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| 03:13.33 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 03:13.47 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer05 -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 04:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: now you at least have some tiny new bits for retroactive updating of http://www.mwkn.net/2013/18/front.html |
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| 05:12.54 | unclouded | ShadowJK, is the sense resistor for the charger different than the one for the charge meter? |
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| 06:19.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: get sixwheeledbeast and thedead1440 to drop, maybe? |
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| 09:22.18 | ShadowJK | unclouded; yes |
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| 09:24.14 | ShadowJK | unclouded; bq27200 has two 10-ish mohm sense resistors in series, of which one is shared with cellmo iirc.. bq24150 has a 68mR-ish sense resistor |
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| 09:44.41 | freemangordon | Pali: i don't know if you are aware, but u-boot in extras-devel repo is broken. for some reason apt-get wants to install the older version, not the new one :( |
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| 09:56.03 | Pali | freemangordon: run: apt-cache policy u-boot-flasher |
| 09:56.42 | freemangordon | Pali: already did it, it is the older version listed |
| 09:56.52 | freemangordon | apt-get update does not fix it |
| 09:57.05 | Pali | new version is missing? |
| 09:57.19 | Pali | do you have extras-devel enabled? |
| 09:57.57 | Pali | really DEB package is not there: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/u/u-boot/ |
| 09:58.03 | freemangordon | it is there |
| 09:58.09 | freemangordon | i wget and installed it |
| 09:58.11 | Pali | ah, is there |
| 09:58.16 | Pali | old version is not there |
| 09:58.26 | freemangordon | but apt wants to install the older version |
| 09:58.40 | Pali | and what is output of apt-cache policy? |
| 09:58.42 | unclouded | cheers ShadowJK. the 68 ohm value makes sense with the V(charge) and V(term) values in the comments but not with $CR? ( which is 132, not 68) |
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| 10:00.00 | ShadowJK | oh, CR is something else, it represents losses between charger chip and the battery |
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| 10:00.39 | ShadowJK | I only use it for estimating system power use during the CV phase of charging |
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| 10:01.19 | unclouded | aha. thanks for explaining that. now other comments in the script become clear to me |
| 10:01.30 | ShadowJK | The RS (bq27200 sense) I've varied between 20 and 21 on my devices, CR between 128 and 132 on my various devices |
| 10:06.00 | ShadowJK | The CR thing in practice, on the device, doesn't behave entirely ohmic |
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| 10:14.46 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/08/nokia_shareholders_revolt_over_elop/ |
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| 10:20.53 | vi__ | good morning. |
| 10:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole thing behaves rather erratic at times |
| 10:21.07 | vi__ | Can someone tell me what the dickens has happened to libpcre3? |
| 10:21.31 | vi__ | It is not in extras, testing, devel. |
| 10:21.39 | vi__ | But it was before. |
| 10:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 10:22.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is not in repo, or not in packages.gz? |
| 10:22.39 | vi__ | I am not sure. |
| 10:22.46 | vi__ | Kismet depnds on it. |
| 10:22.52 | vi__ | Kismet USED to install just fine. |
| 10:22.59 | vi__ | Now it complains there is no libpcre3 |
| 10:23.17 | vi__ | apt-cache search agress, there is no libpcre3 in any repo. |
| 10:23.27 | vi__ | ^agrees |
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| 10:24.44 | vi__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:27.28 | vi__ | kerio: ping |
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| 10:34.49 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: What do you get if you run 'apt-cache search libpcre3' |
| 10:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache search libpcre3 |
| 10:47.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | libpcre3 - Perl 5 Compatible Regular Expression Library - runtime files |
| 10:48.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: which repo *exactly* do you use? where it should find this lib? |
| 10:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw: |
| 10:49.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:50.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and PRETTY PLEASE somebody FIX this friggin apt-cache to print full repo spec incl full pathname, not inly host part of URL! |
| 10:50.19 | vi__ | I have: |
| 10:50.25 | vi__ | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free |
| 10:50.33 | vi__ | deb http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/ fremantle free non-free |
| 10:50.47 | vi__ | deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free |
| 10:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: I don't need your complete apt config ;-) |
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| 10:51.29 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: what repo do you have that I do not? |
| 10:52.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's probably irrelevant since I most likely changed them 20 times since that lib got installed |
| 10:52.19 | vi__ | damn |
| 10:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkgs |
| 10:52.38 | infobot | somebody said #maemo pkg was http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 10:52.45 | vi__ | but if it is in your apt-cache, that means it is in your available package list? |
| 10:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or in my cache |
| 10:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | right? |
| 10:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway |
| 10:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:53.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and PRETTY PLEASE somebody FIX this friggin apt-cache to print full repo spec incl full pathname, not inly host part of URL! |
| 10:54.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't be more than max 2 src lines to patch |
| 10:54.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably rather just comment out some filtering |
| 10:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | though HAH, https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 10:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 10:55.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | guess what, I think you're doomed ;-) |
| 10:55.52 | Mr_Stupid | I've requested an invitation to upload into extras-devel wednesday last week and still can't upload, does it usually take that long? |
| 10:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | *usually* not |
| 10:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we had very little "usually" since migration#2 |
| 10:56.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 10:56.49 | Mr_Stupid | Should i request the invitation again? |
| 10:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | won't help |
| 10:57.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | either it ends again in /dev/null or the guy responsible is still not responsive |
| 10:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: are you the guy who's not responsive? ;-D |
| 10:58.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think merlin told he can approve garage project or accounts or whatever |
| 10:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if he also gets the relevant mail regarding that |
| 10:58.51 | Mr_Stupid | k, thx |
| 10:58.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might need to fix a postfix alias |
| 10:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | best advice: stay tuned here, pester merlin1991 and me once a day |
| 10:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2nd best adbice: if best advice fails, send a mail to techstaff at m.o |
| 11:00.09 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Thankyou. libpcre3 installed. |
| 11:00.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 11:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | where from you pulled it? |
| 11:00.40 | vi__ | hands doc a steaming cup of black coffee and an ice cold beer for later. |
| 11:00.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tabletsdev |
| 11:00.41 | infobot | it has been said that tabletsdev is http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/ |
| 11:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 11:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 11:00.59 | vi__ | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/libpcre3/6.7-1osso1+r1/ |
| 11:01.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~skeiron |
| 11:01.02 | infobot | methinks skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 11:01.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh |
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| 11:03.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | even OOOOOH fremantle_ssu_pr1-2 OOOOOH |
| 11:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | cya all |
| 11:04.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | grabs the coffee and the beer |
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| 14:41.44 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: I only get mails for garage projects, nothing for extras upload rights |
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| 17:23.55 | Woody14619 | and... my brain just exploded. WebGL compiler compiles C/C++ into asm.js for use in HTML5 browsers..... <*BAM*> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/html5-epic-citadel-demo-shows-the-power-of-opengl-in-the-browser/ |
| 17:24.20 | Woody14619 | freemangordon Ready to compile maemo-thumb into HTML5? :) ^^^ |
| 17:27.02 | freemangordon | Woody14619: actually alopex(embedlite for fremantle) kinda supports webgl ;). though there are some nit to be fixed |
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| 18:03.07 | Pali | M4rtinK: ping |
| 18:06.47 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are you going to resign from one of the two councils? |
| 18:06.58 | kerio | you were joking, right |
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| 18:07.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to resign from either, since in 4 weeks they are one |
| 18:07.47 | kerio | :o |
| 18:07.47 | kerio | how |
| 18:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I'll probably resign from both |
| 18:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since then workload for each single one of them will be higher than for the unified one |
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| 18:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: there are ways to handle stuff when all are unanimously pushing into one direction |
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| 18:51.18 | esaym153 | nokia x2 a good phone? I need something cheap with good battery life (and I like nokia). I see a bunch of them on ebay for cheap... |
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| 19:35.05 | M4rtinK | Pali: pong |
| 19:35.33 | Pali | M4rtinK, why is modrana compiling on device and not on autobuilder? |
| 19:36.40 | M4rtinK | Pali: because I was not able to make autobuilder do that |
| 19:36.56 | Pali | ah, so because autobuilder :D |
| 19:36.57 | Pali | then ok |
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| 19:37.21 | M4rtinK | I tried some directives that should do that - python-support something DH something |
| 19:37.28 | Pali | you can try to play with sbox redirect |
| 19:37.34 | M4rtinK | but it didn't do anything :) |
| 19:37.42 | Pali | I do not know exact env name |
| 19:38.16 | Pali | but there is something which tell sbox to do not use binaries which comes with sbox |
| 19:38.38 | M4rtinK | well I could also just ship the bytecode |
| 19:39.30 | M4rtinK | modRana works just fine with only pyc files on Android :) |
| 19:39.52 | M4rtinK | the issue would be where to get Python 2.5 these days to do the compilation :) |
| 19:40.33 | M4rtinK | so the current solution, while making the install phase a bit longer, is IMHO more robust int the end |
| 19:42.17 | M4rtinK | as 1) you use the same Python as the same Python to compile & run the code 2) you just need to make a simple source package without additional magic :) |
| 19:42.18 | Pali | can you precompile pyc files in local scratchbox? |
| 19:43.09 | M4rtinK | yeah, that could work |
| 19:43.36 | Pali | I think that including it source dsc package is better then compiling on device |
| 19:44.05 | M4rtinK | BTW, what is the policy ? |
| 19:44.18 | M4rtinK | ship only pyc or both py & pyc ? |
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| 19:44.41 | Pali | in dsc source package should be full source code |
| 19:45.25 | M4rtinK | well, shouldn't be that much bigger |
| 19:45.28 | Pali | and in binary deb package something "executable" |
| 19:46.32 | Pali | I do not know policy of python, but if you do not expect that somebody want to edit python files on device you can ship only pyc files in DEB package... |
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| 19:50.48 | M4rtinK | oh, yeah, good point ! :) |
| 19:51.20 | ShadowJK | gpodder does .py only |
| 19:51.21 | M4rtinK | I've actually already told people a few times to hack the source until a fix is released for an issue :) |
| 19:52.54 | ShadowJK | pyc only would lose that :) |
| 19:53.05 | M4rtinK | ShadowJK: well, I haven't checked the how much faster it is |
| 19:53.09 | M4rtinK | lately |
| 19:53.20 | M4rtinK | but there should be some startup speed bonus |
| 19:53.46 | M4rtinK | and every speedup counts on the N900 :) |
| 19:53.59 | ShadowJK | I compiled gpodder on my n900 and didn't notice any boost in startup |
| 19:56.40 | M4rtinK | well, modRana has a built-in startup benchmark I can run :) |
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| 19:57.28 | ShadowJK | Well I use "time" and counted cpu time to open and close |
| 19:57.36 | eccerr0r | hmm...why does gpodder take so long to start up... searching the whole machine for podcasts? |
| 19:57.51 | ShadowJK | No it has a database for that |
| 19:59.00 | eccerr0r | about 10 seconds, not way too bad I guess. |
| 19:59.35 | eccerr0r | it does have 24MB RSS... ouch. |
| 20:01.27 | n900-dk_ | How many existing member(s) in HCC are still in HCC? |
| 20:02.04 | n900-dk_ | s/HCC/HFC/ |
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| 20:08.59 | M4rtinK | ShadowJK, Pali: wow, the difference between compiled and uncompiled is quite big ! |
| 20:09.28 | M4rtinK | 3.5 s for compiled, 6-15 s for plain py |
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| 20:10.09 | ShadowJK | just py_compilefiles? |
| 20:11.56 | M4rtinK | well, I've wiped all .py and .pyo |
| 20:12.04 | M4rtinK | then run modRana |
| 20:12.09 | M4rtinK | and then again |
| 20:12.17 | M4rtinK | on a rw fs |
| 20:12.34 | M4rtinK | so it made the bytecode during the first run |
| 20:13.42 | M4rtinK | hmm, there might be a difference on r/o filesystem (as for an app in /opt) as there would be no file writing overhead |
| 20:14.04 | ShadowJK | i thought pyo was pyc but "optimized" |
| 20:14.27 | M4rtinK | BTW, full benchmark without bytecode: http://pastebin.com/VSYA1jRK |
| 20:14.40 | M4rtinK | and with bytecode: http://pastebin.com/qyJzrKAQ |
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| 20:16.40 | M4rtinK | hmm |
| 20:17.24 | M4rtinK | looks like the difference from pyc is only missing docstrings and asserts (?): http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8822335/what-the-different-python-file-extensions-stand-for |
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| 21:04.06 | kerio | M4rtinK: .pyos aren't really worth it |
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| 21:05.23 | M4rtinK | kerio: so I'm doing it right :) |
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| 21:43.25 | Drathir | hi all |
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