| 00:00.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so ut took me 00:2:15 to come up with the complete concept after customer explained what he needs |
| 00:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and in that 2min 15s I said "mouse, for example" |
| 00:01.34 | kerio | dammit doc, why didn't you say "usb gpio" |
| 00:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | because there been tough cost constraints |
| 00:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and also time constraints, the whole thing has to work in 2 days |
| 00:04.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the jobs we like most ;-P |
| 00:04.21 | kerio | why do you always end up in situations where there's less than the healthy amount of time available? |
| 00:05.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, 2 days is more than enough to write that silly little bash script |
| 00:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm more worried about the "wake on power return" which is not a function generally found on laptops |
| 00:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course got introduced into specs after initial concept been agreed upon |
| 00:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and laptop got purchased |
| 00:06.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | (t60, for 150EUR) |
| 00:07.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | dman, those crittest have a poor screen ;-) |
| 00:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn, those critters have a poor screen ;-) |
| 00:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | tiny 1024*768 |
| 00:07.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: power key on a timer |
| 00:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | RTC-ALARM |
| 00:08.19 | kerio | no, like a physical timer, i guess |
| 00:08.23 | kerio | hooked up to the power key |
| 00:08.26 | kerio | make linux ignore it |
| 00:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have no problem at all to power down the shit when mains->battery mode |
| 00:08.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why even have it with the battery connected? |
| 00:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't disassembel that T60 and solder wires to the power key |
| 00:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | good point |
| 00:09.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but still, would it boot on power return? |
| 00:10.22 | kerio | idk, check the bios |
| 00:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought of having it wake up every NN minutes on RTC-alarm, check if it's on mains power or battery power, and set new RTC-alarm and suspend again when on battery |
| 00:11.39 | kerio | hm, make it wake up every NN minutes on RTC-alarm, and remove the battery |
| 00:11.47 | kerio | (hopefully the backup battery can last enough) |
| 00:11.55 | kerio | hold on, "wake up"? |
| 00:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it's a laptop, tose usually have no "boot on power return" bios option |
| 00:12.40 | kerio | anyway, a raspberry pi costs much less than 150EUR, has audio and gpio |
| 00:12.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas RTC can only have one alarm per day scheduled |
| 00:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but coding all that shit on RPi would require me to first *get* such RPi and then install a development environment for it |
| 00:14.09 | kerio | it would require you to first get such a RPi and then vi awesoemadverts.sh |
| 00:14.21 | kerio | and then... idk, run it from rc.local |
| 00:14.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not able to accomplish all that in 48h |
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| 00:17.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I offered a N810 for lease, for 30 bucks a month, but that been no option |
| 00:17.48 | kerio | fwiw, i'd probably *require* 30 bucks a month to host a n810 |
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| 00:18.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then you're not the customer |
| 00:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | who is as technophob as it gets |
| 00:19.03 | kerio | anyway, you lost an occasion to sell one of your half-broken n900s for 150€ :P |
| 00:19.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | i have no half-broken N900, and honestly I been asked if I could sell one of them, but I didn't like to |
| 00:20.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | we finally decided that a standard ISA laptop, used one for cheap, was the best solution |
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| 00:21.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it breaks during that project running, everybody can get replacement in no time |
| 00:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and after that project ends, it still has a certain value for the customer. Unlike e.g. a RPi |
| 00:22.10 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: ....have you considered one eeebox? |
| 00:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that i really knew what that is, except that it sounds like eeePC, but we had only 48h to get hw and implement the complete set |
| 00:23.14 | kerio | xes: raspberry motherfuckin pi! |
| 00:23.41 | kerio | the eeebox is like a mac mini |
| 00:23.50 | kerio | except not expensive |
| 00:23.59 | kerio | ie a "real" desktop computer |
| 00:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't be available at that shop next door where my friend bought that T60 |
| 00:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that a laptop was a particularly smart idea, given that you could get a cheesy used desktop PC for <100 bucks |
| 00:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | while that T60 cost 150 |
| 00:25.55 | xes | well, i have one box filled of eeebox, i love them , when i need a spare pc, connection boxes, vpn, firewall, monitoring systems etc...i pick one, and.. done! ;) |
| 00:26.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I'm only the system architect and coder monkey, and I haven't put any particular constraints on hw to get, except "runs linux, has a external mouse or kbd" |
| 00:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | my friend does all the shopping and hw mods needed, also probably will get a amp and speakers, and the PIR sensors, and in the end he sells the whole thing to customer |
| 00:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | and he called me and told me "eh, I got a T60, and here's a mouse I will rewire to the PIR sensors" |
| 00:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | "could you please come down to 1st floor and install linux on that laptop?" |
| 00:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told him how to install linux while i ate my pizza ;-D |
| 00:30.54 | kerio | xes: why the eeebox and not something smaller? :s |
| 00:31.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | now until Friday I'll write a cheesy little bash script, and hope for everything to work as expected when that exhibition opens doors on weekend |
| 00:33.24 | xes | kerio: it's easy: time! They use a sata disk that i can prepare into a desktop pc in 10 minutes without wait "intel Atom" times... And they also have all the peripherals of a standard pc in the same misures of a router |
| 00:39.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, anothe one for you, if you're still bored and willing to help a little: I have /dev/input/mouse1 and /dev/input/mouse0. How ould I tell X to ignore mouse1? |
| 00:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui all mouse* are merged into /dev/input/mice |
| 00:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is kinda PITA for what I need to implement |
| 00:43.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks at /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/11-mouse.conf and pukes |
| 00:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | frowns at /dev/input/event* as well |
| 00:46.03 | xes | humm... my friend used an rs232 usb adaptor to read the status of a pir sensor... |
| 00:48.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that would've been my approach if we had a)time and b)funds |
| 00:49.05 | xes | this could be interesting: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/4469/disable-mouse-not-touchpad-in-xorg-while-idle |
| 00:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sounds good |
| 00:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 00:49.22 | xes | using actkbd |
| 00:54.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: indeed this is *exactly* what i needed, many thanks :-D |
| 00:55.11 | xes | yw! ;-) |
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| 05:48.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | xinput --disable "Logitech USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse"; while :; do od -An -N3 -tx1 -w3 /dev/input/mouse1; aplay $(head -n $(( RANDOM % $(cat wh_wav-to-play.cfg |wc -l) + 1 )) wh_wav-to-play.cfg|tail -n 1); done |
| 05:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | cheesy enough ;-P |
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| 07:16.42 | cryptonite | hello |
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| 07:28.13 | jaska | o.O |
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| 07:31.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | O.o |
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| 07:32.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | .oO°Oo.o.oOo. |
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| 08:38.57 | qwazix | ZogG_laptop, hey |
| 08:39.12 | qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, why are you emitting bubbles :P ? |
| 08:41.15 | qwazix | btw I probably won't be able to attend friday's meeting, it's the friday before easter here. |
| 08:42.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | because my life starts to suck |
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| 09:22.26 | unclouded | eject |
| 09:23.03 | unclouded | whoops, wrong window |
| 09:28.44 | florian | unclouded: harmess... unless it was the control terminal of your F16 ;) |
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| 09:32.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf MAIL?? |
| 09:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I nuked sth? |
| 09:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, no idea. All back to normal |
| 09:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, ECHAN |
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| 11:46.04 | n900-dk | Would it be possible to LTE-enable the N900 in some way with a connected USB-dongle? |
| 11:47.17 | zammy | same question I posted my first day I connected to this channel |
| 11:57.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 11:57.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB Vbus power is 5V*100mA max, way too low for LTE dongle |
| 11:58.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, maybe 200? |
| 11:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | still too low |
| 12:00.33 | chem|st | n900-dk: with a powered OTG adapter maybe |
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| 12:05.34 | n900-dk | okay, maybe easier with a transportable LTE-router then |
| 12:06.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw it's debatable how much sense such project makes |
| 12:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | with internal UMTS modem you outperform any LTE via N900 fake USB |
| 12:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok ping latencies are probably lower on LTE still |
| 12:07.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and power saving might work better |
| 12:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but mere maximum theoretical bandwidth isn't a good argument for LTE |
| 12:08.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | in this case |
| 12:09.09 | n900-dk | USB will be a bottleneck? |
| 12:09.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 performs rather poor on H-E-N USB hostmode |
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| 12:10.09 | n900-dk | ok |
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| 12:12.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems even with highspeed mode correctly negotiated USB can't reach even a fraction of the USB2.0 bandwidth of 480Mbit |
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| 12:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | *might* be related to storage drivers though, the tests I heard of been done with memsticks |
| 12:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | or HDD drives |
| 12:16.56 | cryptonite | guys i have thins strange issue with my n900, running conky i see that the image-viewer app is running and is using 90 mb ram and 270mb vram |
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| 12:32.09 | kerio | cryptonite: so kill it with fire |
| 12:32.12 | kerio | or with nine |
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| 12:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | has no faith in conky |
| 12:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | prefers a decent htop in a decent xterm any day |
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| 13:23.10 | Raimu | I've noticed seeing exact memory usages on the n900 is downright tricky |
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| 13:46.51 | chiappa | can only login through talk.maemo.org, site icon images broken, cannot post.. for a few days now the forum is acting pretty weird |
| 13:47.16 | chiappa | am i alone with this? |
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| 13:49.56 | chiappa | oh never mind=) it was just the archive |
| 13:50.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
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| 16:42.17 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: I guess it worths mentioning cssu-thumb on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_The_Perfect_Setup |
| 16:43.36 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: I am biased a bit, that is why I don't want to add that :) |
| 16:43.55 | freemangordon | (to the wiki page) |
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| 17:06.17 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: Beginners wiki, do you have a "Stable" branch yet :) |
| 17:08.19 | sixwheeledbeast | Is there a Thumb wiki page? |
| 17:08.50 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: come on, beginners and KP :P |
| 17:09.26 | freemangordon | sirdancealot: no wiki page, maybe I should copy the information from the thread to the wiki |
| 17:09.38 | freemangordon | oops sixwheeledbeast: ^^^ |
| 17:10.03 | sixwheeledbeast | KP without overclock is noted as a recommended but not important step. |
| 17:10.40 | sixwheeledbeast | KP is important for smartreflex and other bug fixes. |
| 17:11.35 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: naah, I don;t want to argue on that, I was just guessing it will be a good idea. BTW no matter what you think about "stable/testing" branch I try (and I think I succeed) to keep CSSU-thumb more stable than CSSU-S ;) |
| 17:11.52 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't see why CSSU Thumb couldn't have it's own page and links to CSSU main page? |
| 17:12.05 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: no reason besides someone should write it :) |
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| 17:13.39 | sixwheeledbeast | I know what you mean about stable/testing but where do you draw the line to be newbie friendly :) |
| 17:15.12 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: should I start a Thumb page and link it to CSSU page using your OP? |
| 17:15.17 | Woody14619 | sixwheeledbeast, Win7Mac: Any feedback on the "How Elections Work" wiki page would be useful. This is a rough draft right now, so.. Want to be sure in the end that it's clear to anyone reading how things work. |
| 17:15.41 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: if nothing has changed (from to user POV) after installation, I'd say it is newbie friendly :) |
| 17:15.55 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: I'll appreciate it |
| 17:16.44 | sixwheeledbeast | In testing/thumb that's not the case then, AFAIK. Testing forces rotation and cameraui2 etc |
| 17:17.05 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: rotation is no longer forced |
| 17:17.34 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: oh, you mean desktop rotation? |
| 17:18.39 | sixwheeledbeast | I'll look into both wiki's above in minute. Yes desktop rotation, the way I see it testing should force you to test all things whereas Stable should keep the same UX |
| 17:20.00 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: honestly, I'd assume SR way more "newbie unfriendly" and unstable in general than any CSSU flavour. No, desktop rotation is meant to be a production feature, not some testing stuff |
| 17:20.30 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: there is "forced rotation" for applications, but that's a different beer |
| 17:20.55 | n900-dk | anything not working in CSSU-thumb? |
| 17:21.18 | freemangordon | n900-dk: AFAIK no |
| 17:22.14 | n900-dk | so a non-thumb app will work fine? |
| 17:24.29 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: SR newbie unfriendly for stock freqs? really? It is released via a "stable" channel to all users. I understand many get confused between desktop rotation and forced... |
| 17:25.36 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: SR is not "released" as it is disabled by default, one should enable it to make it active |
| 17:25.55 | freemangordon | n900-dk: yes |
| 17:25.56 | kerio | freemangordon: hold on, what's unstable with SR? |
| 17:26.48 | freemangordon | kerio: hmm? I was comparing it with CSSU-thumb, not saying that it is unstable (for stock freqs) |
| 17:27.01 | freemangordon | kerio: read the backscroll please |
| 17:27.04 | kerio | i see |
| 17:28.37 | sixwheeledbeast | Well I see what you mean but IMO KP and CSSU come hand in hand as part of the community fixes. |
| 17:29.08 | freemangordon | hmm, why is that? CSSU has no dependency to KP |
| 17:29.36 | freemangordon | and it will bring its own kernel (hopefully with the next after the next update) |
| 17:30.18 | freemangordon | which will be stripped down KP of course, but still |
| 17:31.07 | ShadowJK | has had a few gst/dsp crashes after switching to thumb+sr |
| 17:32.16 | ShadowJK | but i also switched device |
| 17:32.46 | n900-dk | gst/dsp? |
| 17:33.16 | ShadowJK | when watching video |
| 17:33.35 | kerio | i sometimes get some crashes |
| 17:33.38 | kerio | with streaming video |
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| 17:33.56 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: do you have those crashes with SR disabled? |
| 17:34.13 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I guess you don't OC. |
| 17:34.27 | sixwheeledbeast | KP is required for Smartreflex, IPv6, CIFS, Mobile hotspot etc. I honestly thought SR was enabled as default with KP tho. |
| 17:34.29 | ShadowJK | i dont |
| 17:35.14 | sixwheeledbeast | Is there a point to strip down KP why no depend on it? |
| 17:35.41 | ShadowJK | I noticed voltages changed from the at-boot ones when loadinf "default", and tried to make custom profile with sr and boot volts, but it's different still *shrug* |
| 17:39.13 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: no, SR is disabled by default |
| 17:39.28 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: "default" profile enables SR |
| 17:40.33 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: does it crash when you load the untweaked "default" profile? |
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| 17:43.14 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: also, what crash do you see, "DSP MMU fault"? |
| 17:44.44 | sixwheeledbeast | Woody14619: I see no issues. Works well following "the life of a single vote" |
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| 17:50.53 | sixwheeledbeast | Seems silly not to use SR if it's stable. Hmm I see your point. So when will CSSU come with K-CSSU? |
| 17:55.14 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: got to run, will continue tomorrow :) |
| 17:55.17 | freemangordon | night |
| 17:55.29 | sixwheeledbeast | gn |
| 17:55.50 | Win7Mac | nighty... |
| 17:56.01 | Woody14619 | Thanks sixwheeledbeast. Win7Mac has some input on it, since some may be confusing to non-native speakers. Wll be blending as best we can to see if we can make sure everyone like sit. |
| 17:56.13 | Woody14619 | s/like sit/likes it/ |
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| 18:10.39 | ShadowJK | freemangordon; yeah the untweaked default profile is what crashed. Unfortunately I don't remember the dmesg of crash right now, I'll let you know next time it happens |
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| 18:47.55 | Mr_Stupid | Hello, anybody here familiar with py2deb? |
| 18:49.03 | Mr_Stupid | The wiki says i should build my app in MyDocs and that i have to take care about correct permissions set. But MyDocs is fat, so i can't set permissions? |
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| 18:53.25 | sixwheeledbeast | I didn't get on with py2deb. Not much help I know. Have you looked at threads on tmo? |
| 18:54.24 | Mr_Stupid | Yes, i searched tmo. But didn't find anything |
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| 18:58.54 | sixwheeledbeast | Mr_Stupid: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80914 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83946 - Try these? |
| 18:59.13 | Mr_Stupid | thx, i'll have a look |
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| 19:41.41 | sixwheeledbeast | There is now a thumb wiki page :) http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb |
| 19:42.18 | Mr_Stupid | Hmmm, i didn't try thumb yet :) |
| 19:44.50 | panjgoori | thanks for the wiki sixwheeledbeast |
| 19:45.08 | sixwheeledbeast | Woody14619: Not sure if I am being thick but I am not sure I understand the new table |
| 19:46.14 | sixwheeledbeast | panjgoori: fmg did the hard work I just wikified it really and fixed duff grammar. |
| 19:47.35 | sixwheeledbeast | table is : http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Cloning_Voting_Tokens |
| 19:52.34 | n900-dk | Can you go from CSSU-Testing to CSSU-Thumb without reflashing? |
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| 19:57.08 | sixwheeledbeast | yes |
| 19:58.10 | sixwheeledbeast | you can go from any flavour to thumb |
| 19:59.50 | n900-dk | apps must be thumb enabled when compiled to benefit from thumb? Sorry for stupid questions :) |
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| 20:01.49 | n900-dk | don't really get thumb.. |
| 20:02.13 | sixwheeledbeast | no, existing applications can be used. However thumb versions of applications OMP, qtworldclock) will reduce used memory more. |
| 20:03.09 | n900-dk | ok, but only very few apps have thumb versions? |
| 20:03.24 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: what don't you get, I can try to explain. |
| 20:04.01 | sixwheeledbeast | yes at the moment there's not many, hopefully autobuilder will be able to compile thumb versions in the future. |
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| 20:11.32 | n900-dk | I understand the smaller footprint and faster execution, but as long as very few apps are thumb enabled, I don't understand how to really benefit from thumb. Guess I need to try it to have my own experience :) |
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| 20:34.06 | Win7Mac | How ya like me now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Overview |
| 20:36.25 | Win7Mac | does this make sense to you?: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work&curid=5352&diff=51497&oldid=51496 |
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| 20:46.41 | n900-dk | hmm, I need libxmuu1 for installing snx. How do I get libxmuu1? |
| 20:51.09 | Mr_Stupid | libxmuu1 is in the repos |
| 20:51.39 | Mr_Stupid | apt-get install libxmuu1 |
| 20:53.54 | n900-dk | which repo? Guess I dont have it.. |
| 20:55.15 | Mr_Stupid | look: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libxmuu1/ |
| 20:56.53 | Mr_Stupid | btw, what's snx? |
| 21:00.14 | n900-dk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60760 |
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| 21:02.16 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: sorry pidgin is not pinging me anymore. Your forgotting the main lib's etc on the device itself. |
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| 21:03.56 | sixwheeledbeast | if you check thumb changelog, fmg is compiling maemo bits in thumb ISA. hence smaller code. |
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| 21:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: that table is 3 dimensional projection into 2 dimensions, of course it's confusing |
| 21:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should become 2 tables |
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| 21:31.56 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: oh good I thought it was suppose to make sense |
| 21:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619 been extremely oversmart there :-) 3UA9VTp == ?_User_A_?_Vote_Token_? |
| 21:33.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure if the "?" are random or also make some sense |
| 21:33.41 | Woody14619 | just random. did you see the "verfication strings" yet? ;) |
| 21:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | also caling users "A" and "B" doesn't exactly help, usually you use "Antony" and "Bob" |
| 21:35.36 | Woody14619 | Good idea. :) |
| 21:36.01 | Woody14619 | Editing now, so will include that.. :) |
| 21:39.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest X:table_names Y:*user-name* (so for antony and Bob) table will have 2 rows. Then use " or 3 or 4 identical wiki tables that show the evolution during cloning and voting |
| 21:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/table_/db_table&field_/ |
| 21:40.42 | Woody14619 | I was considering such a thing. But table manupulation in Wiki is nearly non-existant. :P |
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| 21:41.30 | sixwheeledbeast | how did infobot manage to add a smily? |
| 21:41.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, there needs to pop up some table editor for mediawiki |
| 21:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: not here |
| 21:42.17 | sixwheeledbeast | pidgin :) |
| 21:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly wouldn't know what to make a smiley from |
| 21:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | db_table&field_ |
| 21:43.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ here? |
| 21:43.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather |
| 21:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | :db_table&field_ |
| 21:44.08 | sixwheeledbeast | mm.. tables in wikis, fun. |
| 21:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | PITA |
| 21:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we could use an exporter from openoffice to mediawiki |
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| 21:45.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or HEY can't mediawiki include HTML code? |
| 21:45.50 | sixwheeledbeast | there's many different methods too. |
| 21:46.03 | sixwheeledbeast | yes with html tag? |
| 21:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought so |
| 21:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so create tables in openoffice and export as html, then import to mediawiki |
| 21:46.42 | sixwheeledbeast | but stops sortable and other features of wiki tables working. |
| 21:47.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the web editor of mediawiki is an insult |
| 21:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we could "steal" the editor etherpad or google are using? |
| 21:50.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | also browser borne both of them, but real editors |
| 21:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | not an embarrassing text-input-box with a tiny bit of "decoration" |
| 21:51.12 | sixwheeledbeast | decoration? |
| 21:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | like "B" "I" "U" |
| 21:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | even "ultrasmart" function to insert URLs |
| 21:53.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "toolbar" in mediawiki "editor" |
| 21:54.10 | sixwheeledbeast | I never use them, just learn the markup. |
| 21:54.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | WYSIWYG is an invention of late 80s of last century |
| 21:55.07 | Win7Mac | OpenSource community should not rely on google or alike, IMHO. Stealing is ok, though... ;-) |
| 21:55.22 | xes | could someone point me to fix this: http://git.xfce.org/apps/midori/tree/midori/midori-browser.c?id=889dcabc330776342782e1cf4f0ff960623ae7d7#n783 |
| 21:55.29 | Win7Mac | Whats wrong with WYSIWYG? |
| 21:55.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing, just missing in mediawiki editor |
| 21:55.54 | Win7Mac | enough for the average Joe |
| 21:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: sorry? |
| 21:56.15 | xes | all uppercase is not a good idea, but also replacing HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_AUTOCAP with HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL |
| 21:57.07 | xes | does not gives the expected result. |
| 21:57.12 | sixwheeledbeast | I think Doc would like WYSIWYG in wiki. not old style markup language, however I am used to html so wiki language doesn't bother me there all the same. |
| 21:57.31 | Win7Mac | ok, I see |
| 21:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | for editing tables it's a plain abomnation and a PITA |
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| 21:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | tables in mediawiki are as non-intuitive and clumsy as it might get, when it comes to editing them |
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| 22:00.50 | sixwheeledbeast | http://sourceforge.net/projects/csv2other/ |
| 22:00.58 | sixwheeledbeast | got a csv? |
| 22:01.56 | GI_Jack | does anyone know where I can get the battery cal scripts, the scripts in the thread 404 |
| 22:02.33 | gregoa | G 37 |
| 22:02.41 | gregoa | *cough* |
| 22:04.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | GI_Jack: try my server maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 22:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | gregoa: hmß |
| 22:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 22:05.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's G37? |
| 22:05.32 | GI_Jack | DocScrutinizer05, what dir |
| 22:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo/tools or sth like that |
| 22:05.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess |
| 22:06.36 | ashley | what am I not getting here? I registered an account via garage.maemo.org, confirmed it and all and the account seems to work for the Maemo Wiki and all, but I can't login to talk.maemo.org with it and trying to register a new talk.maemo.org forum account takes me to a "You have left a required field blank." page, always... |
| 22:06.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh |
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| 22:07.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmo accounts are unrelated to garage accounts |
| 22:07.12 | sixwheeledbeast | ashley: w.m.o m.o and t.m.o are all different logins |
| 22:07.28 | gregoa | DocScrutinizer05: "G 37" is a typo for "/g 37" which is "goto windows 37 in my irssi" |
| 22:07.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaaah |
| 22:08.08 | sixwheeledbeast | ta for cleaning up some wiki pages too :) |
| 22:08.28 | ashley | so...why doesn't vBulletin like me, then? |
| 22:08.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno |
| 22:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | you left some field blank, maybe ;-) |
| 22:08.51 | ashley | and you're welcome; I'm a MediaWiki dev and all (and wiki.maemo.org could seriously do with a software upgrade, heh...) ;) |
| 22:09.19 | ashley | http://talk.maemo.org/register.php -- there's only one field (sic), the checkbox "I have read, and agree to abide by the maemo.org - Talk rules." |
| 22:09.37 | ashley | if left unchecked, the resulting page says "You have chosen not to accept the forum rules, so registration cannot continue. Click here to return to the main forums page, or click the 'Back' button on your browser if you now want to agree with the forum rules." |
| 22:09.54 | ashley | if checked, the resulting page claims that "You have left a required field blank." |
| 22:10.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure you need to provide more than just a checkbox tick to register a new account |
| 22:10.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me this URL shows I'm already registered ;-) |
| 22:11.46 | ashley | I'd assume that first it shows the rules and if and only if you agree with them, it takes you to the actual registration form where you type in the desired username, password, email, CAPTCHA and whatnot |
| 22:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: I'd be surprised however when vBulletin tmo new user registration suddenly was broken |
| 22:12.37 | sixwheeledbeast | no captcha IIRC more like a simple maths question. |
| 22:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: I don't think it works like that |
| 22:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe check your browser settings: adblock, JS, load-images, whatnot else |
| 22:14.41 | sixwheeledbeast | hmm .. ^^ my first thought, I have adblock and no issues here. What browser? |
| 22:14.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, checking now |
| 22:15.07 | ashley | I use Internet Explorer 10 (yes, I know...) on Windows 7 (Ultimate); the page's HTML clearly shows that there's nothing else of interest on the registration page besides the rules and the checkbox |
| 22:15.27 | ashley | (and I block only some adservers, like Google's and doubleclick.net and whatnot, so I doubt that could be causing it either) |
| 22:15.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: you're right, you have to checkmark 2I agree" first, then it takes you to a page with all the text input boxes |
| 22:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | there R.OPENX wants to change an existing cookie, I guess that's from captcha |
| 22:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktoptR3743.png is first page |
| 22:20.15 | ashley | aye, indeed it is |
| 22:20.37 | Woody14619 | Okey. Is that table better Docscrutinizer05? :) |
| 22:21.48 | sixwheeledbeast | NoScript on Firefox causes the issue you mention. Had to disable noscript and delete cookies to continue. |
| 22:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktoptR3743.png is next page |
| 22:22.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops |
| 22:23.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktopZL3743.png |
| 22:23.14 | sixwheeledbeast | table is: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Cloning_Voting_Tokens |
| 22:23.25 | Woody14619 | Also, sixwheeledbeast, since you noted the table wasn't obvious. :) |
| 22:26.52 | ashley | yep, but I had no luck in getting to that page (and my issue can hardly be a NoScript one since I use Internet Explorer and the last I checked NoScript wasn't available for IE ;) and FOSS-y projects probably do _not_ depend on plusone.google.com or such, so the fact that I block some ad servers browser-side can't be causing this one either) |
| 22:27.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: lower right: |
| 22:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | "Bob", "Chad" ⇒ OMGuVotedn2electsA |
| 22:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | "Bob","Mark" ⇒ OMGuVotedBE2g0prty |
| 22:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | if these names are candidates, then use different names |
| 22:28.28 | Woody14619 | They would be... Why not have Bob be electable too? :) |
| 22:28.39 | Woody14619 | Bob gets to vote! :) |
| 22:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gather they are candidates, since in first "record" there's "Yes" for an answer to a referendum |
| 22:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | If it wouldn't look too identical, I'd use "Rob" ;-) |
| 22:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | but "Sally","Tim" is probably fine |
| 22:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even a italic prefix: "referendum1_" resp "council-election34_" |
| 22:32.03 | sixwheeledbeast | ashley: I have no way of testing IE10 to help you. |
| 22:35.35 | ashley | :-/ |
| 22:39.01 | sixwheeledbeast | night all, busy day tomorrow. |
| 22:59.28 | Win7Mac | Doc, use Adam & Eve... sounds easier |
| 23:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob |
| 23:01.52 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louis@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 23:01.53 | Woody14619 | I hear you can get anything you want and Alice's resturaunt. |
| 23:02.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Craig, the password cracker (usually encountered in situations with stored hashed/salted passwords).<< |
| 23:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 23:02.44 | Woody14619 | o.O |
| 23:05.00 | Woody14619 | I prefer my passwords buttered, not salted. :) |
| 23:05.29 | Woody14619 | poke kerio. You're slow! ^^^ |
| 23:05.39 | Win7Mac | guys... |
| 23:07.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway you see it's not all that tricial to pick good placeholder names that don't already imply something (wrong) |
| 23:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | trivial* |
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| 23:09.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: I still think the answers need a hint in their naming to show that the database knows for *which* *election* they were meant. |
| 23:10.17 | Woody14619 | Hmm... |
| 23:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | in RL they are pointers to a table which holds all valid answers/votes for a election anyway |
| 23:10.52 | Woody14619 | While it does have that in real life, It's not really relevant to the chart, but.. yeah... |
| 23:11.10 | Woody14619 | how about.... |
| 23:12.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | another idea I think would look nice: strike-through the tokens when they get used up, instead of instantly deleting them from table |
| 23:13.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | only remove them for next step diagram of table |
| 23:13.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I have NFC how to markup <strike> ) |
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| 23:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that also looks good now |
| 23:15.19 | Woody14619 | Like that... :) |
| 23:15.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not happy with the names of the candidates, in votes. The are not obviously grouped into a alphabetical range |
| 23:16.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | K, L, M, N or R,S,T,U |
| 23:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | C is electorate still |
| 23:17.02 | Woody14619 | Well, it may be they chose based on who they liked better. :) |
| 23:17.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | like in "Chad" |
| 23:18.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe one of them has a kyrilic name. Nah, really, when using symbolic aka placeholder names, certain conventions should be followed |
| 23:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's about common sense resp prior knowledge and context |
| 23:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can transport a limited amount of meaning in naming only. If you try to pack too much into naming, it loses _all_ meaning |
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| 23:22.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | whn a IT literate user sees "Chad" there then she doesn't think "aah, maybe electorate can also be candidates" but rather "hmm, this record in table can have candidates or electorate in that field. But based on what?" |
| 23:22.40 | Woody14619 | chose Zarrah to indicate last entry. :) |
| 23:22.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's also debatable |
| 23:23.10 | Woody14619 | A, B, C, ... Z |
| 23:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | this allocates complete alphabetic range to electorate, not leaving any ranges like R,S,T,... for any other group |
| 23:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | while in RL it may be true that all candidates are also members of electorate, here it's not relevant |
| 23:25.53 | Woody14619 | Well, right... They're voting tokens. They represent potential voters. The chart isn't just hanging out in space... There's text near it... describing some of that. :) And really, this is more about the cloning process. |
| 23:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather use "...\n(6000 more of electorate)" than "Zarrah" |
| 23:26.37 | Woody14619 | Sigh.. I think it's fine... But hey, it's a wiki! ;) |
| 23:26.55 | Woody14619 | Anyway... I think it's pretty much ready for exposure to TMO. :P |
| 23:27.51 | Woody14619 | I'm sure I'll get lots of comments from people misinterpreting all of it, but... That's to be expected. But if even a few people understand it better, then it's an improvement. |
| 23:30.27 | Woody14619 | Happy to see a few people working on it though. :) |
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| 23:32.49 | Win7Mac | : good night all |
| 23:40.12 | Woody14619 | K, ride is here.. away for dinner, prob for night. |
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