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| 00:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | your uboot tale is bewildering |
| 00:02.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | uboot lives as siamese twin with kernel in dev/mtd1 iirc, anyway in NAND's "kernel" partition. I don't see how 2 uBoot could coexist |
| 00:03.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 2 env |
| 00:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | env completely defines how uBoot menu looks like |
| 00:03.33 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: uboot doesn't have any saved env |
| 00:03.42 | kerio | and he probably just installed u-boot-bootimg |
| 00:03.54 | kerio | doing that lets you chainload uboot from uboot |
| 00:04.43 | hardfalcon | DocScrutinizer05: I have some uImage containing uboot lying around on one of the "normal" file systems |
| 00:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, right |
| 00:05.18 | hardfalcon | but that uimage contains the *new* uboot, and I'm sure I did not put it in there |
| 00:05.41 | hardfalcon | if it contained the old uboot, I could well imagine I'd put it there some time |
| 00:05.45 | xes | put the candle back... http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1986hys8I1qe9gxzo2_500.gif |
| 00:05.51 | hardfalcon | but certainly not the new uboot release from last week |
| 00:06.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, one of uBoot's primary duties is to load nootimg's |
| 00:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | bootimg's even |
| 00:07.32 | kerio | u-boot-bootimg is a moot img |
| 00:07.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually bootimges contain kernels, but as mentioned above maemo uboot lives in symbiosis with kernel |
| 00:08.03 | kerio | the bootimg doesn't |
| 00:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you indeed could load uboot by uboot |
| 00:08.25 | kerio | and "in symbiosis" means "there's uboot, then zeroes, then maybe a kernel at a specified address" |
| 00:08.52 | kerio | it's like a virtual mtd partition |
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| 03:58.14 | hardfalcon | thanks a lot again xes, kerio and DocScrutinizer05 :) |
| 03:58.39 | hardfalcon | it's booting again, seems it was just a broken uboot config |
| 04:00.08 | hardfalcon | odd enough though, as I had run the u-boot-update-bootmenu command even once manually to be sure before rebooting |
| 04:16.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardfalcon: u-boot-update-bootmenu is a clumsy concept |
| 04:18.14 | hardfalcon | it's not worse than grub |
| 04:19.18 | hardfalcon | the coolest thing would probably be yslinux for n900 |
| 04:19.27 | hardfalcon | *syslinux/extlinux |
| 04:19.35 | hardfalcon | but that's most probably never gonna happen |
| 04:20.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardfalcon: bootmenu is a consept that's vastly unrelated to what uboot does, yet uboot config tries to exploit the bootmenu config to base own config on that |
| 04:21.30 | hardfalcon | yes I know |
| 04:21.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda like basing grub config on upstart config |
| 04:22.15 | hardfalcon | well I've never used upstart |
| 04:23.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then s/upstart/sysv-init/ |
| 04:23.11 | hardfalcon | I've been happy with syslinux and archlinux since quite a few years now, so no need to try out that ubuntu stuff :) |
| 04:23.27 | hardfalcon | but yeah, I see what you mean |
| 04:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | we urgently need midgard specialists for maemo techstaff |
| 04:29.44 | hardfalcon | midgard? |
| 04:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | CMS which maemo.org is based on |
| 04:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | see footer on http://maemo.org |
| 04:31.09 | hardfalcon | that thing looks scary |
| 04:31.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Powered by Midgard CMS |
| 04:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, it is |
| 04:32.10 | hardfalcon | btw, is there some specific reason why they didn't go to sourceforge to get servers for maemo.org? |
| 04:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 04:35.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you wanna have a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure |
| 04:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | gives a bit of insight into what maemo.org actually comprises |
| 04:36.22 | hardfalcon | I hadn't been in the forums for a few months and I was quite amazed when I saw the fundraising stuff when I visited the site for the first time after my absence |
| 04:37.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, running our own hardware at a colocation for free felt better than getting some limited-control vservers somewhere |
| 04:38.28 | hardfalcon | that's certainly true, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have some sort of fallback |
| 04:38.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | even osuosl strongly recommends or rather demands that any hosted project uses their central md server rather than running their own db |
| 04:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourceforce wouldn't probably be able to host maemo at all |
| 04:39.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it's neither a simple lamp webserver, nor a simple git repository |
| 04:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather it's all that at once, plus 90% weird stuff on top |
| 04:40.53 | hardfalcon | I guess maemo.org will have to migrate onto a less weird platform sometime |
| 04:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha, good luck |
| 04:41.38 | hardfalcon | from my perspective, the most important thing are mirrors for the packages |
| 04:42.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | that stuff grew organically during almost 10 years, by the work of lots of volunteers |
| 04:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | mirrors? hah! |
| 04:42.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have mirrors like others have dirt under their fingernails |
| 04:42.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror |
| 04:42.49 | infobot | i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 04:42.53 | hardfalcon | more or less all of the rest could be substituted if the infrastructure needed would become too costly |
| 04:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~skeiron |
| 04:42.58 | infobot | from memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 04:43.32 | hardfalcon | yeah, I've seen skeiron |
| 04:43.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, substituate autobuilder. We're open to honest suggestions |
| 04:45.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there actually been efforts to migrate from autobuilder to cobs |
| 04:45.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | but they stalled when Nokia stopped support (i.e. stopped paying the devels) |
| 04:45.37 | hardfalcon | well, I don't have any experience managing a whole linux distro, but I could well imagine that if there isn't any more money for an autobuilder server, the package maintainers would have to build the packages on their own machines and upload both the source tarballs and the binary packages onto some central fileserver (which could server as source for mirror servers) |
| 04:46.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we won't do that, since then everybody is free to inject whatever malware he likes into official repos |
| 04:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a dream for virus coders, their malware gets delivered genuinely instead of finding its way through vulnerabilities |
| 04:47.59 | hardfalcon | hmmm, and you think that somebody would notice in time if there was a breach on the autobuilder server? |
| 04:48.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 04:48.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what maemo-testing repo is all about |
| 04:49.08 | hardfalcon | at archlinux, they have trusted package maintainers, who build their own binary packages and sign them |
| 04:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 04:49.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so do we |
| 04:49.48 | hardfalcon | and the keyring used by the package manager is a package that is signed by the core devs |
| 04:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, that's not exactly new info to me |
| 04:51.25 | hardfalcon | I don't know which of the 2 models should be considered more secure |
| 04:51.34 | rikanee | hardfalcon: having all packages distributed on RMO built and signed by the autobuilder machine is simply playing it safe |
| 04:52.35 | rikanee | ad-hoc packaging with only trusted maintainers getting on the server is an option, but not having an autobuilder means we can't do fancy things like rebuild everything for GCC 4.7/Thumb-2 (when the time comes) easily |
| 04:52.40 | hardfalcon | with an autobuild host, you have a single point of failure IMHO |
| 04:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how does that differ form rmo as a single point of failure? |
| 04:54.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what does it suggest? |
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| 04:55.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a power plant you also have a single point of failure for electric power. Does that mean we should get rid of power plants? sure we should, if somebody could invent the wireless eternally powered modible power outlet |
| 04:56.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/modible/mobile/ |
| 04:57.01 | hardfalcon | as I said, I'm certainly not an expert on that field, but to me, a buildhost where people can upload things like makescripts, configure scripts etc, that will be executed, and which signs your packages automagically, sounds like a conceptional weakness |
| 04:57.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it isn't |
| 04:58.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | devel upload their sourcecode to extras-devel, and autobuilder generates a binary that matches the sourcecode. Eventually they promote their package to extras-testing where both source and binary are supposed to get tested thoroughly |
| 04:59.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | only then the package can promote to extras |
| 05:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so in extras repo you got binaries that are definitely in sync with their sourcecode, and seen thorough testing for rogue functions, hidden malware, mistakes in coding that were without malicious intent but still would affect system stability, a.s.o |
| 05:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's maemo security concept and you can't replace that by trusted devels building their binaries locally and then sharing them by whatever means |
| 05:03.13 | hardfalcon | well if packages must be validated by the dev before they are moved into extras-devel, then looks good to me |
| 05:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | only registered devels can upload to extras-devel |
| 05:04.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | registration for garage developer with upload rights is a manual process that ensures that only known and honoured community members get access |
| 05:06.02 | hardfalcon | yes, that's similar to archlinux, there you also have to earn your way to become package maintainer |
| 05:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | the security check for that registartion isn't really a tough one, but it suffices since we got our security built around other measures than trust |
| 05:06.33 | hardfalcon | as a "normal" user, you can only put PKGBUILD scripts into the AUR |
| 05:06.49 | rikanee | some just want to verify the binaries published vs. one built by yourself. |
| 05:07.23 | rikanee | the autobuilder's software and hardware configuration is known, which should make it possible to verify the output if you're paranoid enough. |
| 05:08.42 | rikanee | and rarely, magic voodoo with differing toolchains may prevent binaries in a system from working together properly. |
| 05:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's yet another good point why central building is needed |
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| 05:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | see cssu where we're not using autobuilder which only works since we are few maintainers&devels, and yet already there we seen months of syystem with broken modest, since the devel accidentally built modest package with thumb enabled on his local machine |
| 05:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | which made it segfault like mad |
| 05:13.37 | hardfalcon | yes, I clearly see the practical advantages |
| 05:13.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | one line in one config file of that devel's local scratchbox SDK been incorrect, and it took months to spot that |
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| 06:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 06:22.36 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
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| 07:11.16 | kerio | hardfalcon: i trust the autobuilder a lot more than the security of /all/ the computers of the people who are "allowed to build" |
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| 07:42.57 | kerio | and in fact, the sooner we get the cssu repos under the autobuilder, the better |
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| 07:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 07:45.55 | kerio | i trust merlin1991's conscience wholeheartedly, but i don't necessarily trust his computer's security :3 |
| 07:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for now we have severe problems with midgard |
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| 07:48.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it seems we have even less midgard experts to fix those issues than we have autobuilder savvy individuals |
| 07:50.02 | kerio | get HiFo to pay nemein to fix it? |
| 07:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already pondered it |
| 07:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | where nemein==bergie, basically |
| 07:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just waiting to discuss it with a few others, and of course with bergie ;-) |
| 07:54.11 | kerio | even better, pay nemein to migrate to a good CMS |
| 07:54.18 | kerio | :D |
| 07:54.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 07:54.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | with you as sponsor? |
| 07:54.53 | kerio | i'm prepared to donate at least tens of euros |
| 07:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | also i'd rather give that order to a company that is expert of the migration target, not of migration source |
| 07:57.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: for a ballpark figure: *maintenance* of maemo.org by nemein is ~2200EUR/month |
| 07:57.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 07:58.17 | kerio | lol |
| 07:58.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maintenance does _not_ include a major migartion |
| 07:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol? that's actually a fair offer |
| 07:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | see fundraiser thread, post #1 |
| 08:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | basic system maintenance: 2200€ - my memory been correct |
| 08:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>[update] We finally got a quote for our current infra (VM on xen-grid, basic system maintenance): 1300EUR+2200EUR/month (+VAT). Of course we're trying to do further consolidation and search for alternatives like volunteers for sysops. Just a sidenote to let you know where we are right now and that we didn't exaggerate to the higher values with that initial ballpark figure of needed amount per month.<< |
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| 08:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | number of users in midgard: 10 |
| 08:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | half of them desperate lurkers |
| 08:03.53 | kerio | fun |
| 08:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | other half: basically nemein |
| 08:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's midgard's *official* IRC channel |
| 08:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare users on irc with http://nemein.com/en/people/ |
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| 08:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | bergie, mashiara, aslan, piotr, niels (ex?): all nemein employees (or boss ;-D) |
| 08:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ab, newa: unclear |
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| 08:13.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | me, jcki, woody: maemo |
| 08:14.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://nemein.com/en/solutions/ |
| 08:14.45 | kerio | sounds better than "Midgard is an open source CMS that has been developed in 1999" |
| 08:15.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://nemein.com/en/solutions/midgard_cms/ |
| 08:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://nemein.com/en/clients/maemo-org/ |
| 08:19.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> Nemein has built the maemo.org developers website and maintain and develop it further on.<< hmmmmm |
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| 08:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pondering to call bergie out on that |
| 08:20.20 | kerio | hehe |
| 08:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe just place that link http://nemein.com/en/clients/maemo-org/ on maemo's footer, instead of that URL that's now under "powered by midgard"? |
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| 08:44.18 | sixwheeledbeast | gr, bloody crackly phone line. Having intermittent inet connection is more annoying than non at all. :( |
| 08:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 08:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | and moinmoin |
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| 09:42.56 | ab | DocScrutinizer05: I recommend you to talk to Bergie definitely. |
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| 09:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ab: yes, probably |
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| 09:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ab: actually, would you know about repligard db, and about permissions resp available functions in midgard toolbar for particular objects? |
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| 10:14.13 | sixwheeledbeast | that seems to have sorted it. |
| 10:15.35 | sixwheeledbeast | <<10:45 DocScrutinizer05: just for now we have severe problems with midgard>> I guess this is why m.o login is not working? |
| 10:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 10:16.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not "not working", it got disabled |
| 10:16.40 | sixwheeledbeast | linked with what happens on tue night/wed morning GMT |
| 10:16.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | since other stuff is not working |
| 10:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 10:16.52 | sixwheeledbeast | s/happens/happened |
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| 10:17.57 | sixwheeledbeast | so if a solution to that page is found, m.o login can be reinstated |
| 10:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically yes |
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| 11:40.21 | Jaffa | Af'noon, all |
| 11:40.46 | Jaffa | Just reflashed my N9 (just rootfs, not eMMC) but writing to /home gives 'no space left on device'. df shows it's only half full. Any ideas? |
| 11:42.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi Jaffa |
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| 11:43.47 | Jaffa | hi DocScrutinizer05 |
| 11:43.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: do you by any chance recall the issue reported in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59830 ? |
| 11:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda strange how the thread is stalling as a cliffhanger |
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| 11:47.53 | Jaffa | remembers. |
| 11:49.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you also remeber what been the actual final conclusions from all that? |
| 11:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | what got fixed, or what been the verdict on it? |
| 11:49.38 | Jaffa | I don't think there were any |
| 11:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, so they shrugged it away? |
| 11:51.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds kinda odd |
| 11:51.47 | Jaffa | Only ever reported by one guy who didn't raise a bug report and didn't provide any useful info. |
| 11:51.55 | Jaffa | I doubt bergie et al even saw the thread |
| 11:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually maybe they did, since we see same bug today still |
| 11:52.17 | Jaffa | You do? |
| 11:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara/Eero seen it |
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| 12:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: yes we do. See pali's reports of a few days ago |
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| 12:11.22 | Pali | Jaffa, DocScrutinizer05: that screen on TMO tread show same security bug which I discovered days ago |
| 12:11.31 | Pali | so that bug is there for a long time... |
| 12:11.49 | Pali | thread was created 6th Aug 2010 , 04:06 |
| 12:15.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: yes, I know |
| 12:16.40 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, so in last *3* years somebody was able to totally damage maemo.org package database |
| 12:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not confirmed |
| 12:17.02 | merlin1991 | Jaffa: what does mount tell you? |
| 12:17.03 | merlin1991 | Jaffa: I've had it after a rootfs reflash /home wasn't mouted anymore |
| 12:17.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we don't discuss detailed problem here |
| 12:17.22 | merlin1991 | mkfs ... on the devicenode, a reboot and everything was fine again |
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| 12:54.11 | ron0062000 | what new? |
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| 14:42.04 | fasta_ | Are there dual sim adapters for n900 which are inside it? |
| 14:42.39 | fasta_ | Some threads say they are all scams, some say there is software to switch, but then you still need some device (which nobody mentions) to do the actual switching. |
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| 14:55.57 | sixwheeledbeast | fasta_: have you read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85722 |
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| 14:59.54 | sixwheeledbeast | last sim switcher I had corrupted all the data on both sims, avoided since then. |
| 15:06.25 | hardfalcon | magicsim 28th has been reported to work |
| 15:06.40 | hardfalcon | but there have also been report that magicsim 26th doesn't work |
| 15:07.12 | hardfalcon | gotta admit though that I've never had a sim switcher myself so I don't have any personal experiences with them |
| 15:07.22 | hardfalcon | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=998362 |
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| 15:29.58 | jacekowski | fasta_: those devices in most cases require you to turn your phone off and on |
| 15:30.42 | sixwheeledbeast | I think it depends on if 007 mode compatible? |
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| 15:43.11 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: yes, that's what got me interested in the dual sim possibility. |
| 15:43.26 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: but he should have listed a bunch of known to work devices in the OP. |
| 15:43.56 | fasta_ | Does a sim switcher imply that you cannot use both at the same time? |
| 15:44.02 | sixwheeledbeast | I agreed was going to bump and ask if he could do a wiki page for his app. |
| 15:44.09 | sixwheeledbeast | s/agredd/agree/ |
| 15:44.33 | fasta_ | Also, how can I get my n900 to work like in the commercials for Maemo? |
| 15:44.43 | fasta_ | In the commercials everything is smooth and fast. |
| 15:44.53 | sixwheeledbeast | lol |
| 15:45.00 | fasta_ | I think there are laws against practices like this now. |
| 15:45.16 | sixwheeledbeast | "sequences shortened" |
| 15:45.25 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: more like sped up. |
| 15:45.41 | sixwheeledbeast | you on thumb? |
| 15:45.54 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: I'd say it's at least 5 times slower in the real world. |
| 15:45.57 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: thumb? |
| 15:46.10 | sixwheeledbeast | CSSU-thumb |
| 15:46.18 | sixwheeledbeast | Swap on SD? |
| 15:46.25 | sixwheeledbeast | Swappolube? |
| 15:46.32 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: I think I am Stable. |
| 15:46.48 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: I can see swap being used, yes. |
| 15:47.27 | sardini | fasta_, you're stable, that mean you are not a serial killer ? |
| 15:47.40 | fasta_ | sardini: on Stable. |
| 15:47.46 | sixwheeledbeast | eh.. do you have swap on uSD card or device (default) |
| 15:48.04 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: likely default. |
| 15:48.17 | sixwheeledbeast | you would know if you had |
| 15:48.18 | hardfalcon | sixwheeledbeast: e probably doesn't, otherwise he'd know |
| 15:48.23 | hardfalcon | *he |
| 15:48.27 | sixwheeledbeast | i know. |
| 15:48.39 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: I can ssh into my phone, so I can easily run commands. |
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| 15:48.49 | sixwheeledbeast | also widgets are a big killer in maemo |
| 15:49.39 | sixwheeledbeast | if you have a fresh device with no dodgy software all is quick and crisp like the ads |
| 15:51.48 | ShadowJK | Except opening youtube |
| 15:53.17 | sixwheeledbeast | well that was youtube back in the day on flash 9 |
| 15:53.33 | ShadowJK | true :) |
| 15:54.13 | sixwheeledbeast | all workarounds for flash on microb now |
| 15:54.32 | sixwheeledbeast | roll on html5 browser |
| 15:55.43 | fasta_ | What does skyhost do? |
| 15:56.09 | fasta_ | I also don't get why I have 3 camera-ui programs running. |
| 15:56.24 | fasta_ | Or 4 thumbnailerd. |
| 15:56.36 | ShadowJK | sykyhost = skype p2p thing |
| 15:56.41 | fasta_ | It seems lots of duplicates are running. |
| 15:57.16 | sixwheeledbeast | and you wonder why it's being slow... |
| 15:57.34 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: these are things that should never happen in the first place. |
| 15:57.51 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: don't blame someone elses' fault on me. |
| 15:58.06 | fasta_ | sixwheeledbeast: instead suggest ways to fix the problem. |
| 15:58.42 | sixwheeledbeast | I am not blaming anyone. |
| 15:58.42 | ShadowJK | There's 2 for most things, a launcher/booster and app itself. Basically gtk and other libraries get initialized once, so that the state of the memory can be shared with other apps |
| 15:58.42 | fasta_ | I have 8 browserd. |
| 15:58.42 | fasta_ | 4 hildon-desktop. |
| 15:58.51 | fasta_ | Likely one for each desktop. |
| 15:59.05 | sixwheeledbeast | there shouldn't be |
| 15:59.20 | ecc3g | 2 hildon-desktop, 3 browserd, and 2 browser on mine |
| 15:59.36 | ShadowJK | 3 browserd, 2 browser |
| 16:00.01 | ShadowJK | one parent browserd, web surf browserd, conversations browserd |
| 16:00.18 | fasta_ | ShadowJK: and how much swap are you using? 0? |
| 16:00.23 | ShadowJK | browser launch/booster, main browser |
| 16:00.27 | fasta_ | I am using 285MB swap now. |
| 16:00.43 | fasta_ | (which is likely the main cause of slowness) |
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| 16:00.52 | ShadowJK | 150M right now, reading news and have two rows of windows open :) |
| 16:01.08 | fasta_ | I am not even using all the main memory :/ |
| 16:01.18 | fasta_ | There is over 70MB free. |
| 16:01.34 | ecc3g | 2 modest, 375MB into swap (ouch) |
| 16:01.43 | ecc3g | whoops |
| 16:01.51 | ecc3g | wrong number, 149MB actually |
| 16:01.53 | ShadowJK | has 2 gig swapfile on uSD |
| 16:02.05 | ShadowJK | it makes swap fragmentation onset take longer |
| 16:02.08 | sixwheeledbeast | it's not the amount of swap more the amount of times swap is written |
| 16:02.17 | fasta_ | ShadowJK: are there any instructions to configure that? |
| 16:02.24 | sixwheeledbeast | swap defrag |
| 16:02.26 | ecc3g | for some reason it won't let me use a swapfile on microsd (fatfs)... |
| 16:02.45 | ShadowJK | swap on fat is broken with stock kernel |
| 16:02.59 | ShadowJK | I should've said swap partition :) |
| 16:03.10 | ecc3g | wasn't fixed on pk? |
| 16:04.13 | ShadowJK | might be, I havent tested |
| 16:04.59 | ecc3g | have to repartition my microsd card, would be nice to use swap on that instead. |
| 16:05.21 | fasta_ | Are swap _files_ also supported? |
| 16:05.32 | fasta_ | (The Linux kernel supports those since forever) |
| 16:06.03 | ecc3g | last time i tried, it, forgot if it was on pk or stock, but it livelocked when I tried swapon |
| 16:06.16 | ShadowJK | the stock version happened to have a big with swap on vfat |
| 16:06.29 | ShadowJK | also "filefrag" on vfat doesn't work |
| 16:06.34 | ShadowJK | (same codepath) |
| 16:07.18 | sixwheeledbeast | ecc3g: had the same on KP50 |
| 16:08.00 | ecc3g | i guess it's worth it to try it on powerkernel52 now... but I have a feeling it was not fixed. |
| 16:09.05 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't see the issue with swap partition on uSD, or my preferred two swaps :) |
| 16:09.38 | ecc3g | and probably swap on swapfile on ext3 might work too... |
| 16:10.00 | ecc3g | just too lazy to repartition the microsd :o |
| 16:10.26 | sixwheeledbeast | takes minutes on a desktop with gparted |
| 16:11.07 | ecc3g | still too lazy (plus I'd have to figure out how to make it auto swapoff when the back cover is removed...) |
| 16:11.35 | sixwheeledbeast | flopswap :) |
| 16:15.19 | ecc3g | plus I really should use the microsd... class 10 microsd is probably faster at swapping than the emmc? |
| 16:16.10 | ShadowJK | Depends |
| 16:17.04 | ShadowJK | The swap algorithm in maemo kernel (different from mainline kernels) is optimized for SD, but works best when nothing else accesses the device |
| 16:17.42 | ShadowJK | Which is why I use uSD swap, because very little uses the uSD |
| 16:18.35 | sixwheeledbeast | Also flash wear issue, but that's only a worry if you plan to be using N900 in decades to come. |
| 16:18.48 | ShadowJK | The modem dies faster :) |
| 16:18.55 | ShadowJK | and microusb.. |
| 16:19.01 | sixwheeledbeast | so it seems |
| 16:19.11 | sixwheeledbeast | ~hammertime |
| 16:19.11 | infobot | ACTION beats up erstazi |
| 16:22.18 | sixwheeledbeast | anyone successfully re-flowed an N900 mobo yet? |
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| 16:56.41 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: https://garage.maemo.org not working, SSL certificate expired 25.04.2013 01:59 |
| 17:07.36 | kerio | fun |
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| 18:02.35 | fasta_ | Is there some command to move all swap to RAM again? |
| 18:05.20 | fasta_ | Why don't they just release an n900 with quadcore CPU and 4GB RAM? |
| 18:05.42 | fasta_ | Well, and a camera from the Lumia. |
| 18:07.39 | jacekowski | swapoff |
| 18:07.52 | jacekowski | because not many people will buy it |
| 18:08.24 | fasta_ | jacekowski: there are a lot of people who hate all the "we will sell all your data" on other platforms. |
| 18:08.38 | fasta_ | But perhaps it depends on who you talk to. |
| 18:08.52 | jacekowski | nokia did that too on n900 |
| 18:09.01 | jacekowski | if you remember mynokia or some crap like that |
| 18:09.24 | fasta_ | jacekowski: I am talking about things like selling contact lists. |
| 18:09.39 | jacekowski | nobody is doing that |
| 18:09.43 | jacekowski | other than facebook |
| 18:10.04 | fasta_ | jacekowski: pretty much all Android apps want access to it and Internet access. |
| 18:10.20 | fasta_ | jacekowski: why would they *not*? |
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| 18:11.17 | fasta_ | jacekowski: are you involved with some phone company now? |
| 18:11.28 | fasta_ | jacekowski: what do people want according to you? |
| 18:12.29 | jacekowski | iphones |
| 18:12.39 | jacekowski | that's what people want |
| 18:12.42 | jacekowski | and that's where market is |
| 18:13.09 | fasta_ | Does the iphone have some kind of security model? |
| 18:13.30 | jacekowski | dunno |
| 18:13.37 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't know. there's a few people I know, that a jealous of the N900 |
| 18:13.40 | jacekowski | probably yes |
| 18:13.42 | fasta_ | I don't want a flashlight app to have access to a contact list for example. |
| 18:13.56 | jacekowski | n900 had no security model at all |
| 18:14.42 | fasta_ | jacekowski: sure, but legally I don't think applications can spy. |
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| 18:14.54 | fasta_ | If OTOH, you say that you spy, it's all fine. |
| 18:15.17 | jacekowski | applications can do everything |
| 18:15.22 | jacekowski | do you ever read EULAs? |
| 18:16.09 | fasta_ | jacekowski: ok, perhaps that was a bad remark. |
| 18:16.36 | fasta_ | jacekowski: I actually do read EULAs most of the time, yes. |
| 18:16.52 | fasta_ | jacekowski: but only out of enjoyment, since they are null and void. |
| 18:17.29 | fasta_ | jacekowski: I am sure that there are other countries where those letters mean anything. |
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| 18:24.00 | fasta_ | I just read something about iPhone security. It seems rather simplistic. |
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| 18:24.24 | fasta_ | Perhaps better than on n900, since that comes with none? |
| 18:25.14 | fasta_ | It certainly doesn't seem innovative, other than that it is MAC running on a phone. |
| 18:25.38 | jacekowski | it was the first smarphone for masses |
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| 18:28.16 | fasta_ | I wasn't talking about that; they deserve some credit there. |
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| 19:29.10 | thedead1440 | ~ping |
| 19:29.10 | infobot | ~pong |
| 19:38.51 | sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: nice declaration ;) |
| 19:39.09 | thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: spying on me? :p |
| 19:39.28 | sixwheeledbeast | :whistle: |
| 19:39.45 | thedead1440 | today is the first time in ~3 days that i've touched my laptop :p |
| 19:39.58 | thedead1440 | so did it up fast and quick instead of writing an essay :D |
| 19:40.22 | sixwheeledbeast | I knew you where away, so when you pinged I checked the wiki :) |
| 19:40.30 | thedead1440 | hehe |
| 19:40.59 | thedead1440 | and you saved me the trouble by stating a lot of what i experienced too :) |
| 19:42.08 | sixwheeledbeast | I know that my point, cheat :P. TBH I had to make mine not sound like MT's |
| 19:42.18 | thedead1440 | haha |
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| 19:44.27 | thedead1440 | Hehe Doc wrote a short story |
| 19:44.45 | sixwheeledbeast | in there parts too IIRC |
| 19:44.51 | thedead1440 | he should have added the son goes to supermarket to buy 3l of milk and no 3l packaging available |
| 19:44.57 | sixwheeledbeast | s/there/three/ |
| 19:45.03 | thedead1440 | that would have completed his examples :D |
| 19:45.09 | thedead1440 | yeah he keeps editing it |
| 19:45.21 | thedead1440 | he would make a good real life politician :D |
| 19:45.52 | sixwheeledbeast | He goes to BBQ's then comes back to add another chapter |
| 19:46.02 | thedead1440 | lol! |
| 19:46.15 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: where are you? :p |
| 19:46.19 | thedead1440 | burning some steak? |
| 19:47.35 | sixwheeledbeast | doubt it, it'll take years to defrost from -22 degrees |
| 19:47.42 | thedead1440 | hehe |
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| 19:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | fools :-P |
| 19:53.01 | thedead1440 | and here he is :D |
| 19:53.32 | sixwheeledbeast | \o/ |
| 19:54.30 | sixwheeledbeast | we awoke him from his midgard crisis |
| 19:54.46 | thedead1440 | hehe |
| 19:55.23 | sixwheeledbeast | All in order now >>> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2013/Candidate_declarations |
| 19:56.46 | thedead1440 | thanks for keeping it in order ;) |
| 19:58.28 | sixwheeledbeast | self managing, my favourite type. |
| 19:58.54 | thedead1440 | haha |
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| 20:05.08 | sixwheeledbeast | brb |
| 20:05.34 | thedead1440 | goes to sleep; see ya :) |
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| 20:07.35 | sixwheeledbeast | that's better! sounds are fixed in pidgin. |
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| 22:36.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | last call for referendum voting! |
| 22:37.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you can't find your token mail: you can get it resent to you, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1338413#post1338413 |
| 22:38.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (^^^ a note inspired by the fact that we seen complaints about sending token mails *too early* :-o ) |
| 22:45.56 | Sc0rpius | ok I voted for the referendum |
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| 22:58.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not really concerned that referendum would fail, but it would shed a bad light on MCC and community if only two dizen community members would bother to vote. We *need* a strong support from community to feel confident for the duties to come |
| 22:58.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | or let me put it this way: if community doesn't care, so why should we or anybody we're talking to? |
| 23:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is true for referendum but even more for council elections |
| 23:04.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: thanks! :-) |
| 23:04.52 | Sc0rpius | so usually there are no more than 50 voters? |
| 23:05.26 | hardfalcon | DocScrutinizer05: I haven't been in the forum for quite a while, and I don't know most people, so how should I decide who to vote for? |
| 23:05.57 | Sc0rpius | the referendum is a yes/no question |
| 23:06.04 | Sc0rpius | so this one in particular should be easy |
| 23:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | you may read the candidate declarations in http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2013/Candidate_declarations |
| 23:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but - as Sc0rpius said - tyou have another 8 or so days to do that |
| 23:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89926 is spiced with links to all the relevant sources of information |
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| 23:15.54 | hardfalcon | hmmm, so if I understand all of this correctly, I'm not eligible to vote, as I haven't got any mail token |
| 23:16.10 | hardfalcon | and if I remember correctly, I don't have a garage account, either |
| 23:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | then obviously you don't understand everything correctly |
| 23:16.40 | hardfalcon | that is very well possible, indeed |
| 23:16.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the latter would be a major obstacle indeed, but still not a showstopper |
| 23:17.12 | hardfalcon | ah, I think I've found it |
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| 23:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Important info: This time basically everybody is entitled to participate in voting and we very much like to ask you to actually do. If you haven't received a token mail yet, this might be either due to problems with sending the mail to you, or you're not in the bunch that automatically got a mail due to karma or account age issues. please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...13#post1338413 how to proceed, there's probably no |
| 23:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | reason why you shouldn't be allowed to vote.<< |
| 23:17.48 | hardfalcon | yes, I think I've found it |
| 23:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'd need a proof that your been around on maemo at large for >4 weeks at least. People emerging from nowhere just to vote won't get a token |
| 23:19.38 | hardfalcon | I haven't logged in for some time, let's see if my account is still there... |
| 23:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | being on tmo or on IRC for >4 weeks would suffice to show your honest interest and prove you're not a sock puppet |
| 23:19.49 | hardfalcon | but I've never been that active anyhow :/ |
| 23:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter |
| 23:22.13 | hardfalcon | hmm, I've jus grepped through my password list, seems I have a garage account and even a bugtracker account |
| 23:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your email setting in your garage account are correct, you either already got a token mail there, or you send a mail to council as suggested in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1338413#post1338413 and I can send it to you in no time |
| 23:23.16 | hardfalcon | I'll check, wait a sec |
| 23:24.01 | hardfalcon | ah, at least the garage account still works =) |
| 23:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | if however your garage account has an invalid or deceased email addr then editing it will be needed and mail to council will be needed and we need several days to process _that_ particular type of request |
| 23:24.35 | hardfalcon | no, the mail for the garage account is still valid :) |
| 23:24.52 | hardfalcon | though it may take a few minutes until your mail makes it through the greylisting filter |
| 23:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, if you don't mind send it to me in a query, and I check |
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| 23:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | you go mail! ;-) |
| 23:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got mail! ;-) |
| 23:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn typos |
| 23:34.49 | hardfalcon | thx :) |
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| 23:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | mail arrived? |
| 23:40.11 | hardfalcon | yes and no |
| 23:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ??? |
| 23:40.49 | hardfalcon | greylisting |
| 23:41.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd hope that should eventually get over it |
| 23:41.14 | hardfalcon | but I've put your mail server on the whitelist a few seconds ago |
| 23:41.23 | hardfalcon | it will |
| 23:41.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | mails are sent by our standard mail gateway that should retry |
| 23:41.57 | hardfalcon | yes |
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| 23:45.16 | hardfalcon | ahhh, it arrived already 5 minutes ago but I didn't see it in my mail client because your mail didn't have a date, so it was at the *very* bottom of my inbox |
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| 23:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 23:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for that |
| 23:51.51 | hardfalcon | nah, no problem :) |
| 23:52.18 | hardfalcon | I saw in my server logs that your mail had passed so I knew it couldn't have gone lost ^^ |
