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| 00:36.44 | FIQ|n900 | hi |
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| 01:33.09 | Estel_ | dmce and friends |
| 01:33.27 | Estel_ | jacekowski, we might have problem with autobuild |
| 01:34.45 | Estel_ | I've uploaded new version of bnf some days ago... earlier than latest things from sixwheeledbeast |
| 01:34.58 | Estel_ | still, no sign of anything related to it anywhere |
| 01:35.04 | Estel_ | should I re-upload? |
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| 01:45.52 | samsunix | Hello. I was thinking replace maemo by ubuntu (fck sd cards and multiboot). can it be done? |
| 01:46.09 | samsunix | N900 |
| 01:49.09 | *** join/#maemo techlife (techlife@218.59.97.50) |
| 02:01.42 | ShadowJK | why not sd? easy to take out and put in pc when you mess up etc |
| 02:03.10 | *** join/#maemo techlife (techlife@218.59.113.120) |
| 02:05.10 | RST38h | doing it on internal NOR or card is a bad idea, too risky |
| 02:05.24 | ManoftheSea | Please to not be briking the N900 |
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| 02:12.48 | samsunix | actually I dont use my n900 as phone anymore. I was thinking install unbutu + lamp + tcl-tk + eggdrop and keep it as miniserver |
| 02:13.42 | samsunix | and I can always reflash it back to what it was |
| 02:14.48 | samsunix | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/n900 <-- really attempting |
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| 02:21.25 | ShadowJK | there no NOR :( |
| 02:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | stupid, idea. A raspberry or any other dirt cheap uC will be way easier to handle |
| 02:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | also on any other such cheap board you usually have decent ethernet |
| 02:23.41 | ShadowJK | I've considered doing something similar with my cellmo-dead N900s |
| 02:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | a 20 bucks used 6 y o laptop will be waaay more convenient for same purpose |
| 02:25.15 | ShadowJK | Amusingly, rPi has a more broken usb hw than N900, and its Ethernet is on usb :) |
| 02:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | using N900 for it is like "I built a mixed out of my old vacuum" |
| 02:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | "but why??" |
| 02:25.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | "because I could" |
| 02:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nixer* |
| 02:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang mixer* |
| 02:25.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | forget it |
| 02:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll do it anyway ;-P |
| 02:27.15 | RST38h | ShadowJK: I have seen a comparison between RaspbrryPi and a generic chinese HDMI plug running Android |
| 02:27.33 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Comparison was not in rspPi favor |
| 02:28.49 | ShadowJK | Yeah, the Allwinner stuff is pretty neat |
| 02:28.54 | ManoftheSea | RST38h: I have an mk802 II |
| 02:29.16 | ShadowJK | was considering getting a olimex allwinner board |
| 02:29.16 | ShadowJK | also runs linux |
| 02:29.18 | ManoftheSea | I don't understand the fascination with the RPi |
| 02:31.11 | ManoftheSea | Do you know my favorite part of the N900? The way contacts are integrated. Making a call is like making a VoIP call is like making an XMPP call. |
| 02:31.30 | Estel_ | 1. it's cheap 2. it doesn't have GPL violation in supply chain |
| 02:32.05 | Estel_ | 3. it was created without big corporate support, at least, till they signed with farnell and rscomponents |
| 02:32.16 | *** join/#maemo norrsken_ (~quassel@g226229236.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 02:32.29 | Estel_ | 4. despite parts coming from china, people tend to think it's european, well, some way it is |
| 02:32.47 | Estel_ | 5. It got wibrant community before getting even released, in foss-like spirit |
| 02:33.34 | Estel_ | personally, I would pay 20% more, if I would know that money isn't going to gpl violators in china, that can stop releasing stuff that interest me |
| 02:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea: and the addrbook being closed blob is what basically renders maemo fuckedup for all future |
| 02:33.58 | ShadowJK | The soc is bigcorp that tells you to piss off unless you're buying 10 million chips |
| 02:34.11 | ShadowJK | same for docs |
| 02:34.20 | Estel_ | not to mention that I would pay 100% and 200% more for foss hardware/software device, that would be really without corporate support |
| 02:34.22 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, I agree |
| 02:34.29 | Estel_ | I answered what people think :P |
| 02:34.35 | Estel_ | so why it's popular |
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| 02:35.19 | Estel_ | I still preffer it over chinese things, though - If there is a slight chance that pi foundation will release smth interesting in future |
| 02:35.37 | ShadowJK | Broadcom is firmly on my "evil" list :P |
| 02:35.41 | Estel_ | instead of chinese clones that do it just for mere profit |
| 02:35.46 | Estel_ | same here |
| 02:35.50 | Estel_ | together with nVidia |
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| 02:37.04 | ShadowJK | AIUI, the allwinner soc is better documented than the rpi soc |
| 02:37.29 | RST38h | rpi is pretty much riding on hype |
| 02:37.35 | ssvb | Estel_: there is no corporate support for allwinner hardware, sounds like a perfect choice for you :) |
| 02:37.45 | RST38h | it is a generic arm board. it runs linux. so what? |
| 02:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: it's never the ARM core that's the problem with lack of docs |
| 02:38.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the peripherals, the pinout, and similar shit |
| 02:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and *of course* such shit like gfx and companion chips etc |
| 02:39.48 | ShadowJK | AIUI, the problematic usb controller has no docs, just a single overworked guy with nda docs hacking on it (and dozen other projects) in his spare time |
| 02:40.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | usb==peripheral, yeah |
| 02:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | see incredibly crappy docs of 3430's mentorgrafucks musb_hdrc |
| 02:43.55 | unclouded | would those Ubuntu kernels for N900 work with Debian wheezy? |
| 02:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not? |
| 02:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you compile all in one giant run |
| 02:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | after fixing the missing dependencies and missmatches in function calls, pathnames, whatnot |
| 02:48.55 | unclouded | I'll have to give it a try. I tried linux-image-omap and it segfaulted. not sure if armhf kernel and armel rootfs could be the cause though |
| 02:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel devels' fav game is to change APIs - like sysfs pathnames, sysnode semantics, devices semantics and pathnames or even completely changing devices - from one kernel version to next |
| 02:54.17 | Drathir | hi |
| 02:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 02:54.43 | RST38h | doc: I know. The core is described by ARM itself after all |
| 02:54.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:54.53 | RST38h | doc: but all the other shit they push into that soc... well... |
| 02:55.13 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: what is the latest cssu update version? |
| 02:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Latest version: Testing(2013-01-07): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2; Stable(2013-01-10): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6 | Next meeting 06.03 |
| 02:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops, a tad too long c&p from #maemo-ssu /topic |
| 02:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | obsolete surplus info too |
| 02:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders how many IRC users actually take notice of /topic anyway |
| 02:57.18 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: thanks all looks ok, i was little scared that long time any new update out... |
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| 02:57.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohwell 2 months |
| 02:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | those last 2 months were a tad busy for everybody ;-) |
| 02:59.22 | Drathir | yea i know about migrate, but that should be also funny time proppably? |
| 02:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui (got a bit detached) the guys prepare a major revision bump, including a CSSU kernel |
| 03:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, soooo funny, I almost get blue in the face from laughing all day long |
| 03:00.30 | *** join/#maemo maybeHere (~cl@p5B164190.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe as funny as a rollercoaster or a ghost train, or whatching a splatter movie |
| 03:01.43 | Drathir | i mean all time when doin something big something must happen some kind of suprizes/problems... |
| 03:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only fun so far are the extremely gifted brilliant people doing all the work - it's a grace seeing them at work |
| 03:05.43 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: yes, and all users be really thankfull for that work... |
| 03:12.34 | Drathir | if someone like what do can do it all the time with pleasure... i too few time ago finish setup arch linux on usb flash in configuration /boot separate partition / on lvm volume and works great all this do for fun and check something new... |
| 03:15.50 | Drathir | now i think to try how works arm on vm... |
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| 03:41.04 | Estel_ | unclouded, but why crapbuntu? |
| 03:41.12 | Estel_ | arch linux on N900 is pretty advanced project |
| 03:41.18 | Estel_ | ~arch |
| 03:41.19 | infobot | Object-oriented library of tools for MP machine and networkprogramming. URL: http://lagaffe.cpe.fr/~arch/, or version control software aiming to be better than cvs; at http://wiki.gnuarch.org/ |
| 03:41.25 | Estel_ | ~fu |
| 03:41.25 | infobot | FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- |
| 03:41.54 | Estel_ | ~arch-n900 |
| 03:42.36 | Estel_ | infobot, arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 |
| 03:42.36 | infobot | Estel_: okay |
| 03:42.41 | Estel_ | ~arch-n900 |
| 03:42.41 | infobot | well, arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 |
| 03:52.36 | Estel_ | Argggh, why QT have to suck so big time |
| 03:53.08 | Estel_ | Alopex project looks great, but what comes from that, if it ignores half of my hardware keyboard remap, making imput a PITA... |
| 03:53.23 | Estel_ | as every QT "app" |
| 03:53.46 | Estel_ | whinnes at qwazix and freemangordon for choosing qt |
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| 04:04.01 | zaerc-n900 | 'ello |
| 04:05.48 | Macer | isnt supl.nokia.com dead? |
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| 04:06.54 | thedead1440 | Macer: maybe for the n900 but it is fine and kicking on symbian^3 and the n9 |
| 04:07.50 | Macer | ah ok |
| 04:07.53 | Macer | thanks |
| 04:08.07 | Macer | dead on the n900? it actually checks? |
| 04:08.17 | thedead1440 | that's what i read on TMO |
| 04:08.25 | thedead1440 | maybe it identifies with the user agent |
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| 04:15.07 | Drathir | Estel_: better develop on arch is cleaner and lighter than ubuntu... |
| 04:22.06 | unclouded | Estel_: not Ubuntu, but using their kernel to run Debian wheezy. getting a kernel that works seems to be hard work |
| 04:23.40 | zaerc-n900 | interesting discussion |
| 04:25.08 | zaerc-n900 | I'm running Squeeze on the n900 right now |
| 04:25.44 | zaerc-n900 | in textmode without X :) |
| 04:27.39 | unclouded | squeeze runs sweet for me too, but the ofono version is ancient and backporting a newer version looks non-trivial |
| 04:27.41 | zaerc-n900 | just got it to work, couldn't resist installing irssi and dropping by |
| 04:28.35 | zaerc-n900 | it runs awesome like this |
| 04:28.38 | unclouded | nice work on getting squeez going though |
| 04:28.53 | zaerc-n900 | thank you |
| 04:29.58 | zaerc-n900 | it's almost going to be a shame to bolt maemo on top ;) |
| 04:31.09 | zaerc-n900 | if we can get it done of course... |
| 04:34.44 | Drathir | unclouded: good to be obtain template of they kernel config and patches and make on clean tree... |
| 04:35.04 | Drathir | zaerc-n900: chroot? |
| 04:35.32 | zaerc-n900 | no on micro-SD |
| 04:35.46 | Drathir | O.o nice... |
| 04:36.13 | zaerc-n900 | it's not even using swapspace |
| 04:36.24 | zaerc-n900 | atm |
| 04:37.54 | Drathir | zaerc-n900: clean arch 32bit after install running using 47mb of ram... |
| 04:38.33 | Drathir | i goin to check arch arm when i make configure vm for them... |
| 04:38.50 | zaerc-n900 | I'm usin 88mb atm |
| 04:39.41 | Drathir | i dont how compare arm vs normal pc 32bit ram usage for now |
| 04:40.27 | Drathir | i must check which one use more of ram... |
| 04:40.46 | zaerc-n900 | I dunno either |
| 04:43.36 | zaerc-n900 | well, time to reboot the phone again |
| 04:44.16 | zaerc-n900 | and get it working as a phone again ;) |
| 04:44.42 | zaerc-n900 | bye y'all |
| 04:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ # uptime |
| 04:51.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, yeah. time for a reboot |
| 04:51.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | recently it started feeling laggy |
| 04:52.48 | unclouded | Drathir: that would be better for sure |
| 04:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorted by %mem: http://privatepaste.com/2bfc1e7023 |
| 04:54.37 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: nice uptime... kexec? |
| 04:55.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, why kexec? |
| 04:56.28 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: long time without reboot ^^ |
| 04:57.10 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@dslb-094-216-231-069.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:57.27 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: but how that is made 0 users? |
| 04:57.40 | *** join/#maemo ccssnet (~ccssnet@c-98-216-141-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:58.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 04:59.59 | *** join/#maemo xprism (~xprism@110.232.94.169) |
| 05:00.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | not sure what counts as user, tbh |
| 05:03.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems you need your "users" to do logging to utmp/wtmp |
| 05:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | this friggin thing doesn't even know `last` |
| 05:07.28 | Drathir | ghost logged looks orginally... |
| 05:25.01 | Estel_ | Hey, I have a serious dillema here |
| 05:25.40 | Estel_ | I got a broken N900 into my hand. It usb port is perfectly ok and connectin with testpins is estabilished, but, when connected, it only charger, it isn't recognized as all as usb device |
| 05:25.51 | Estel_ | connecting it to linux pc result in NOTHING (Tm) in dmesg |
| 05:25.58 | Estel_ | just lke nothing got ever connected |
| 05:26.18 | Estel_ | so, usb is "kinda" broken. Now, device is in bootloop, but backupmenu 0.65 is there, and works |
| 05:26.42 | Estel_ | that version haven't support for terminal, though |
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| 05:27.14 | Estel_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:27.23 | Drathir | Estel_: charger working? |
| 05:27.34 | Estel_ | Dragnslicer, yea, usb is technically working |
| 05:27.43 | Estel_ | data connection to testpads under battery works |
| 05:27.56 | Estel_ | it seems that usb is dead by either kernel or hardware failure of controller |
| 05:28.06 | Estel_ | charging works like dumb charger |
| 05:28.37 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 05:29.01 | Estel_ | Drathir, as for your question, I'm using debian wheezy chrooted on N900 ;) |
| 05:29.13 | Estel_ | but for best kernel experience in different OS, really check arch |
| 05:29.17 | Estel_ | ~arch-n900 |
| 05:29.17 | infobot | hmm... arch-n900 is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81892 |
| 05:29.33 | Estel_ | now, I wonder what to do to get info what kernel is there |
| 05:29.53 | Estel_ | as I i restore rootfs with modules to wrong kernel, I will loose backupmenu too |
| 05:30.00 | Estel_ | making that device real unbrickable brick |
| 05:30.15 | Estel_ | but just by summing it all up here, I got idea |
| 05:30.23 | Drathir | someone there if good remember distribute images to bring up from sdcard... but ts strange that linux not recognise and detect any device... |
| 05:30.48 | Estel_ | I'll make backup of rootfs, unpack it on another N900, and update backupmenu files manually, to one having terminal... |
| 05:30.57 | Estel_ | unles, damn, it's kernel without fbcon |
| 05:31.22 | Estel_ | but I'll be able to figure kernel version from rootfs backup anyway |
| 05:31.44 | Estel_ | prepare another device with vanilla + that kernel, boot sucesfully (hopefully) reviving device... |
| 05:32.14 | Drathir | more scarying for me why pc dont detect flasher? |
| 05:33.31 | Estel_ | nothing, probably usb chip dead or someone messed with kernel too much |
| 05:33.39 | Estel_ | I suspect the 1st option |
| 05:33.47 | Estel_ | I got that device for free as dead completely |
| 05:34.09 | Estel_ | so making it even one without usb but working is better than leaving it as dead |
| 05:34.26 | Estel_ | reviving is fine, reminds me of some cyberpunkish RPG's sessions ;) |
| 05:34.34 | Drathir | flash mode not should be detect anytime? also whem nead loop mode is active? |
| 05:34.58 | Estel_ | if usb controller is dead, nothing will happen I tried coldflashing, but of course, no use |
| 05:35.11 | Estel_ | as device doesn't seems to accept or send anything on data lines |
| 05:35.18 | Drathir | but thats is good for free n900 O.o |
| 05:35.35 | Estel_ | connecting it to usb hub doesn't even light diode signalling usb device connected, or leave anything on dmesg |
| 05:35.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: ROMBL flashmode should alwys get detected, yes |
| 05:36.04 | Estel_ | it just sucks 100 mA like usb light or whatever (from desktop) |
| 05:36.23 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, but what with device that got usb hardware fckd somehow? |
| 05:36.48 | Estel_ | I suspected usb pins damaged, but it's rock solid, so measured it to testpads under battery, and it's perfectly fine |
| 05:37.03 | Estel_ | Drathir, so I really suspect hardware damage |
| 05:37.05 | Estel_ | btw fun fact |
| 05:37.27 | Estel_ | connected without battery to pc via usb result in device having solid yellow OR solid green diode |
| 05:37.32 | Estel_ | I mean N900's led |
| 05:37.42 | Estel_ | randomly |
| 05:38.12 | Estel_ | Generally I get some dead N900's from time to time for bargain or free, and most of them are really dead... |
| 05:38.25 | Estel_ | but this one gives hopes for revival, even if handicapped |
| 05:38.30 | Estel_ | re usb |
| 05:39.06 | *** join/#maemo valeriusL (~valerius@178.76.208.218) |
| 05:39.36 | Estel_ | Well, I'm not as much surprised, seen strange things ;) |
| 05:39.59 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~Psi@49-50-247-217.a.hd.net.nz) |
| 05:40.03 | Estel_ | We danced graveyards with the vampires 'till dawn, we laughed at the faces of kings, never afraid to burn... |
| 05:40.16 | Estel_ | We seen N900 kernel reverting to default in nand for no plausible reason |
| 05:40.21 | Estel_ | or any possible way |
| 05:41.28 | Estel_ | I've seen and even hold in hands now N900, that can charge another N900 at 500mA in hostmode |
| 05:41.33 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: thanks i dont good know on that, but that about flasher remember from conversations with jacekowski and from technic hardvare side side he can give you help hand... |
| 05:41.38 | Estel_ | while hardware limit is well known to be 200 mA |
| 05:42.04 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: sorry? |
| 05:42.58 | Estel_ | thanks Drathir, but currently, for all intents and purposes, usb data is dead there, and I'm perfectly sure about it. I'll investigate it further if manage to revive that device |
| 05:43.22 | Estel_ | and don't mind old poor DocScrutinizer05, he may be clueless about what we're talking about, as he is getting only half of conversation |
| 05:44.10 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: oh sorry missing Estel_ nick connected with that help hand with hardware possible issues... |
| 05:44.27 | Estel_ | he is part of folklore here ;) |
| 05:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: aah, was already wondering how jacekowski was supposed to give me helping hand on any hw issue |
| 05:45.39 | Drathir | but also help me much too not a once time... |
| 05:45.51 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dennis@116.228.88.131) |
| 05:47.04 | Drathir | but about usb on market like ebay but locally - allegro i saw a lot of devices with broken usb :/ is often i think issue... |
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| 05:48.25 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:49.48 | Estel_ | yea, but i's about a port coming out |
| 05:50.01 | Estel_ | not port being perfectly fine, but usb hardware chip dead ;) |
| 05:50.07 | Drathir | interesting is any way to acces directly to onboard memory with edit and reflash? |
| 05:50.25 | Estel_ | no, but there are test pins beneath battery |
| 05:50.32 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dennis@116.228.88.131) |
| 05:50.32 | Estel_ | 2 of them are usb data + and - |
| 05:50.40 | Estel_ | one is +5V |
| 05:50.46 | Estel_ | and ground you have everywhere |
| 05:50.53 | Estel_ | you can create alternate usb connection |
| 05:51.11 | Estel_ | downside - it goes around some hardware filtering parts against static |
| 05:51.33 | Estel_ | upside: backup antistatis 8Kv is also build-in usb hardware chip |
| 05:51.37 | Estel_ | so you don't lose much |
| 05:51.53 | Drathir | Estel_: i must buy cable to hostmode but i thinking it is possible to use host mode and in the same time charging phone? |
| 05:51.59 | Estel_ | many people use device with work-around usb via testpads, no one reported static frying yet |
| 05:52.12 | Estel_ | Drathir, yea, but you need y-cable then |
| 05:52.42 | Estel_ | and instead of buying hostmode cable I recommend cheaper female-to-female usb adapter |
| 05:52.55 | Estel_ | then you use your normal usb cable, and usb adapter |
| 05:53.15 | Estel_ | if you want, you may mod it to make it y-cable |
| 05:53.28 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: for me everone here is like a guru of n900 ^^ |
| 05:54.28 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dennis@116.228.88.131) |
| 05:54.33 | Estel_ | got some private message from DocScrutinizer05, warning you about him being guru and others not? ;) |
| 05:55.35 | thedead1440 | Estel_: give it a break please; it gets boring reading the same thing "_" |
| 05:55.39 | Estel_ | toldya he is a part of folklore here, don't mind him ;) |
| 05:55.50 | Estel_ | thedead1440, I don't exactly get what is same |
| 05:55.57 | Estel_ | usb? it's another device |
| 05:56.08 | thedead1440 | Estel_: no the scrtunizing :p |
| 05:56.11 | Estel_ | with another issue |
| 05:56.18 | Estel_ | well |
| 05:56.22 | Estel_ | not my fault ;) |
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| 05:57.34 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B490CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:57.37 | *** mode/#maemo [+o thedead1440] by ChanServ |
| 05:58.00 | Drathir | Estel_: yea thats idea sounds better with this usb adapter |
| 05:58.41 | *** mode/#maemo [-o thedead1440] by ChanServ |
| 05:58.42 | Estel_ | thedead1440, http://www.wildsoundmovies.com/images/han_solo_its_not_my_fault.jpg |
| 05:59.43 | thedead1440 | Estel_: really your usb thing is knowledgeable to read but the other thing let it go; it feels very repetitive and alot of sighing |
| 06:01.05 | Estel_ | as usual, you don't have a clue what I was reffering to ;) |
| 06:01.43 | Estel_ | actually I mean one private message, that landed on wrong recipent :> participating parties know what it's about |
| 06:01.48 | Estel_ | so let it go yourself ;) |
| 06:02.05 | Estel_ | and thanks for usb thing, I'm worried that it's rather boring for most, tho |
| 06:02.33 | thedead1440 | no idea on that but reading logs it doesn't seem anything happened? |
| 06:02.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, there been no private message, that's a alie and a ban |
| 06:02.50 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 06:02.55 | thedead1440 | i was reading about the usb testbed thing |
| 06:02.55 | *** mode/#maemo [+b Estel_!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:02.56 | *** kick/#maemo [Estel_!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 06:03.02 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 06:03.16 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~Milhouse@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 06:05.50 | kerio | amen |
| 06:09.03 | *** join/#maemo dlan^ (~dennis@116.228.88.131) |
| 06:09.17 | *** join/#maemo _Letsee (~Estel@d56-215.icpnet.pl) |
| 06:09.32 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 06:09.35 | _Letsee | hey, that wasn't nice. Although, quite predictable |
| 06:09.38 | *** mode/#maemo [+b _Letsee!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:09.39 | *** kick/#maemo [_Letsee!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 06:10.02 | thedead1440 | goodness me the reversed name is back in fashion |
| 06:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and earned him another month |
| 06:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | he's been warned not to spread lies and defamations |
| 06:11.09 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 06:11.14 | thedead1440 | what private message was he referring to btw? |
| 06:11.22 | *** join/#maemo ten_chars (~Estel@d56-215.icpnet.pl) |
| 06:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | he made that up |
| 06:11.52 | thedead1440 | sigh... why does he keep doing that :-( |
| 06:12.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | suggesting I had planned to send a query to Drathir that he got knowledge about |
| 06:12.07 | ten_chars | ban rage, eh? thedead1440, toldya to not use estel and DocScrutinizer05 and ban probably in one sentence ;) |
| 06:12.13 | ten_chars | DocScrutinizer05, LOL, get a doctor or a life. |
| 06:12.16 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 06:12.19 | ten_chars | (re backscroll) |
| 06:12.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | anothe r month |
| 06:12.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3 now |
| 06:12.34 | *** mode/#maemo [+b ten_chars!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:12.35 | *** kick/#maemo [ten_chars!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
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| 06:15.28 | *** mode/#maemo [+b ear_with_feet!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:15.29 | *** kick/#maemo [ear_with_feet!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 06:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4 months |
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| 06:17.34 | *** mode/#maemo [+b RMI|at_work!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:17.36 | *** kick/#maemo [RMI|at_work!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
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| 06:18.49 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*@*.180.20.251.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:19.21 | *** kick/#maemo [RMI|at_work2!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 06:20.31 | *** join/#maemo Estel^ (~Estel@37.31.217.135.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 06:20.31 | *** join/#maemo Estel^ (~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-) |
| 06:20.37 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*estel@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:20.51 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*estel*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:20.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: $aEstel- maybe? |
| 06:21.09 | *** mode/#maemo [-b *!*estel@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:21.17 | kerio | no, sorry |
| 06:21.19 | kerio | $a:Estel- |
| 06:21.54 | kerio | although ircd-seven's ban matching is quite flexible, so i think that you still match the hostname, even cloaked |
| 06:23.10 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!*@*estel*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:23.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | what a sucker |
| 06:25.11 | thedead1440 | its sad; he spreads useful things but can't control himself |
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| 06:29.18 | Pancake2 | Well, it seems that it's time to give this place (#maemo IRC) a lugh. If anyone needs me, contact Estel_ at ears.with.feets@gmail.com, or TMO's PM (if banrage haven't returned there). See ya in better times, without psychos as chanops! |
| 06:29.22 | Pancake2 | ~spank kerio |
| 06:29.22 | infobot | ACTION bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks. |
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| 06:31.47 | thedead1440 | wonders what was the spank for |
| 06:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | for telling the truth? |
| 06:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw a nice collection of his alter egos we have now |
| 06:32.51 | thedead1440 | hehe true |
| 06:34.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | seem he has a special need for alternative nicks, wonder why |
| 06:36.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I however could bet on him starting another flaewar on tmo now - not that i'd care, just a pity for the mods over there |
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| 06:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin Pali |
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| 06:41.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin valerio |
| 06:43.24 | *** mode/#maemo [-b $x thomasvs*$##fix_your_connection] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:44.43 | *** mode/#maemo [-b fruct!~Andrey@94.25.228.1$##fix_your_connection] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 06:45.21 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
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| 06:51.58 | Drathir | still thinking what happend there and is any my bad in that... |
| 06:55.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, Drathir. You're completely innocent in this |
| 06:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry |
| 06:56.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just this particular user begs for a kick or ban every 6 months, probably due to some psychological problems. Seems the time elapsed once more today |
| 06:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had other similar cases, that finally asked for a lifelong ban by themselves. pupnick anybody? |
| 06:59.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | normal extrema of the crowd we call IRC users (or human race even) - one out of 300 is weird in a very special way |
| 07:00.23 | Drathir | good to hear that ist my bad, that is strange i see before ppl writing bad word on channel and spamming, but that is something new for me... |
| 07:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: it's not your bad |
| 07:01.04 | thedead1440 | lol: * infobot sends pupnick flying like a yipping chihuahua |
| 07:02.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: ?? |
| 07:03.10 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: went searching in logs for pupnick ;) |
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| 07:36.32 | discopig | hi |
| 07:36.55 | discopig | DocScrutinizer05, you're awesome |
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| 07:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Drathir: just please tell me: did I send *any* PersonalMail or IRC private query to you today? |
| 07:57.08 | apinballwizard | Howdy, I got on my hands an n900 that's having problems connecting to the network, either giving me "Could not establish network connection" or similar errors at startup. Research seems to indicate this is an issue with 4 chips that are a part of the GSM module (?) coming loose from the board. |
| 07:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN? |
| 07:57.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | GPRS? |
| 07:57.50 | apinballwizard | The gsm connection, bluetooth, wlan, the rest all work just fine last I checked. |
| 07:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, GSM, so I assume GPRS |
| 07:58.24 | apinballwizard | Reading around, I see some have successfully dealt with it by attaching small springs on the chips and having the shield push them down into the board |
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| 07:58.47 | apinballwizard | This doesn't seem like the best solution, but I'd like to know more before I crack my baby open and get to work on it. |
| 07:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, there's a known issue with GSM chips the way you describe it. Usually those faults also cause phonecalls to fail though, and most times you get a "SIM missing" icon in your statusbar |
| 08:00.14 | apinballwizard | I had an issue like that for a while months ago, however I was able to fix it at the time by placing paper between the battery and the sim card |
| 08:00.19 | apinballwizard | Assuming the problem was with the sim contacts |
| 08:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | however the symptoms can differ, probably depending on which particular pin of GSM chipset got loose |
| 08:00.46 | apinballwizard | But now the issue is more severe, and the errors now seem to point to the sim contacts not being the issue |
| 08:00.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 08:01.00 | apinballwizard | But I'm unsure, of course. |
| 08:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | pnatd is a good way to diagnose |
| 08:01.39 | apinballwizard | Oh? |
| 08:01.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as sending "AT" to pnatd gives "OK" answer, modem is still alive, at least partially |
| 08:02.30 | apinballwizard | Would I be able to test with the sim out? |
| 08:02.46 | apinballwizard | I've got it in an old 5230 so I actually have a phone while the n900 is non-functional |
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| 08:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, pnatd should also work without SIM |
| 08:06.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually you can even call 911 without SIM |
| 08:06.56 | apinballwizard | I'd rather not use that to test the status of the modem :) |
| 08:07.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | (or whatever your local emegency call number, and depending on your carrier's policy, but at least N900 supports it) |
| 08:07.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | *#0000# (iirc) should also work |
| 08:08.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or *#06# |
| 08:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure if *#06# actually talks to cellmo |
| 08:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | result anyway should be your IMEI popping up in a notifier |
| 08:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | *#0000# is for firmware version - I guess of modem, so it probably would also need to talk to modem, but again I'm not sure |
| 08:10.39 | apinballwizard | Well, I did get the IMEI popup |
| 08:10.49 | apinballwizard | That said pnatd does not seem to let me enter any at commands |
| 08:10.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if either of both fails, you definitely got modem or libisi problems |
| 08:11.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | root; pnatd |
| 08:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | then type |
| 08:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | AT |
| 08:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and <enter> |
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| 08:13.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when modem seems inresponsive, it might still recover by reflashing the cellmo firmware |
| 08:13.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and probably you should reflash rootfs and eMMC during that as well |
| 08:14.15 | apinballwizard | It hangs for a while before returning "Pipe endpoint connection: Resource temporarily unavailable" |
| 08:14.25 | apinballwizard | Then dropping me back to the terminal which is then unresponsive |
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| 08:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a pretty good indication that modem doesn't respond |
| 08:15.24 | apinballwizard | Well this points to the chips being loose, rather than a bad connection to a sim card, yes? |
| 08:15.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 08:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or the firmware in modem got corrupted |
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| 08:16.29 | apinballwizard | I have performed no operations that would do such, I do not think |
| 08:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rootfs (kernel?-)drivers for the pnat device are defect |
| 08:17.04 | apinballwizard | Coupled with the fact that placing paper behind the battery has solved a similar issue in the past temporarily, seems to me that it might be the hardware |
| 08:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, before going hardcore and trying to fix hardware, a full reflash is always recommended |
| 08:17.26 | apinballwizard | Of course |
| 08:17.46 | apinballwizard | Now to just go about backing up to prepare for that... |
| 08:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are your modem chips got loose |
| 08:18.08 | apinballwizard | That's what a few hours of searching seemed to indicate |
| 08:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 08:18.13 | infobot | methinks backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 |
| 08:18.25 | apinballwizard | Also that apparently the problem is more common in warmer climates, which I am in. |
| 08:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 08:18.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | software usually doesn't care about climate ;-) |
| 08:19.39 | apinballwizard | Hmm, backupmenu |
| 08:19.56 | apinballwizard | I might have to futz to use that, it seem that multiboot isn't directly supported with it |
| 08:20.10 | apinballwizard | Or I'll just save all my files and deal with a new installation |
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| 09:20.18 | XATRIX | Hi, where are the settings for the e-mail client ? |
| 09:21.39 | XATRIX | I have Sent,Drafts and some other folders like usual IMAP , instead of binding them to the program created ones |
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| 13:57.46 | cityLights | is the auther of proximus here? |
| 14:00.23 | thedead1440 | cityLights: what is proximus? The Harmattan app? |
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| 14:25.50 | XDS2010 | what parts of the n900's firmwares are still closed source ? |
| 14:26.37 | thedead1440 | ~closed |
| 14:26.37 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
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| 14:40.07 | cityLights | thedead1440: the application proximus |
| 14:41.15 | thedead1440 | cityLights: the one for usage on the N9 right? AFAIK Creamy isn't on IRC |
| 14:41.27 | cityLights | hmm |
| 14:41.39 | cityLights | brilient app |
| 14:41.53 | cityLights | which causes me to look for a new cellular that can run it |
| 14:41.58 | thedead1440 | profilematic does pretty much similar with added functionality |
| 14:44.39 | cityLights | I wore such a program and like it much |
| 14:44.55 | cityLights | I wrote such a program and like it much |
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| 14:47.10 | cityLights | but I did it using python |
| 14:49.19 | kerio | yay python |
| 14:50.22 | FlameReaper-N900 | is the autobuilder back up? |
| 14:50.38 | FlameReaper-N900 | seems HAM is screaming that modrana has an update |
| 14:50.42 | kerio | yay |
| 14:53.40 | cityLights | cause python is easier for me |
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| 15:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | FlameReaper-N900: yup, sounds about plausible |
| 15:24.41 | FlameReaper-N900 | ah |
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| 16:11.38 | shape | Hello, does maemo have the same issues like Android when it comes to program permission? |
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| 16:13.40 | eccerr0r | Hi, I'm a virus. I'd like permission to infect your computer. No problem you say? Thanks! |
| 16:15.16 | shape | eccerr0r: hahahhaha, well that's how android works |
| 16:15.26 | kerio | shape: .debs are installed as root, and (pre/post)(inst/rm) scripts are ran as root |
| 16:15.42 | kerio | once a program is running, it has user permissions |
| 16:16.12 | kerio | which involve, by default, the ability to change the settings to autoconnect, ask for a connection, download a .deb, and make HAM install it as root |
| 16:16.26 | shape | kerio, I see, and can I install any deb or will there be problems with ARM arhitecture |
| 16:16.40 | kerio | if you run a malicious program on a n900, you're thoroughly fucked |
| 16:16.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like on a real PC |
| 16:16.56 | kerio | indeed |
| 16:16.57 | kerio | well |
| 16:17.20 | shape | kerio: and yes I just bought a n900 and it's on it's way that's why im asking these questions :) |
| 16:17.23 | kerio | the thing is, the most valuable thing to a user is the data |
| 16:17.31 | kerio | and that's obviously damageable by any program |
| 16:17.53 | kerio | anyway, debs on repository.maemo.org are built by maemo.org, and the source is available |
| 16:18.07 | shape | kerio: what about other programs, do I have to compile them? |
| 16:18.14 | kerio | which other programs? |
| 16:18.27 | kerio | if you grab some armel debs from debian... etch? they might work |
| 16:18.37 | kerio | keyword being /might/ |
| 16:19.05 | kerio | there's a vm image of the official development environment, you can compile stuff in there |
| 16:19.28 | kerio | compiling on device is incredibly slow and you have to work through hoops because the toolchain doesn't fit on the rootfs |
| 16:19.32 | kerio | so you have to move stuff around |
| 16:20.54 | shape | kerio: I see, let's say I download the deb of firefox from the official firefox website, because the phone is ARM it won't work? |
| 16:21.06 | kerio | and because libs will be missing |
| 16:22.03 | kerio | the .deb for arm could maybe vaguely work, but it'll probably take more space than there is on a n900 |
| 16:22.24 | kerio | and the UI would be crap, because it's not meant for a 800x480 touchscreen |
| 16:23.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like somebody searching for easidebian |
| 16:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | easy* |
| 16:24.31 | shape | kerio: damn. Btw for a program, if it runs with user permissions I won't have the problem like with Android about it doing whatever it wants, correct? I'd have to su/sudo it for it to run with privileges. |
| 16:24.40 | shape | DocScrutinizer05: yep, I know about easydebian :) |
| 16:24.59 | kerio | shape: what's the intent of this program? |
| 16:25.23 | kerio | if it's malicious, as i told you, there's absolutely nothing stopping it from escalating priviledges |
| 16:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 16:25.38 | shape | kerio: Oh I see |
| 16:25.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not really right, once it's installed |
| 16:26.10 | shape | kerio: It was a general question because I think Android is not secure when it gives out full privileges like that :( |
| 16:26.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: sudo apt-worker <whatever> /tmp/malicious.deb |
| 16:26.25 | kerio | that's passwordless, even if you're not HAM |
| 16:26.28 | shape | so I thought Maemo could change that :( |
| 16:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could however install all that's needed to gain root access together with any malicious program |
| 16:26.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that, too |
| 16:27.37 | shape | kerio: Another thing. I know I can chroot ubuntu for example. Is it possible then to install something like GIMP? |
| 16:27.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | shape: basically you have all options to make your system safe, on maemo |
| 16:27.52 | kerio | shape: install GIMP in easydebian |
| 16:27.59 | kerio | hell, iirc it's already installed in the standard image |
| 16:28.06 | shape | kerio: NICE! |
| 16:28.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, yeah |
| 16:28.34 | kerio | shape: there's no real problem with malicious software on maemo, because the vast majority of things you'll install have the source available |
| 16:28.41 | kerio | and have been built by a trusted party (aka maemo.org) |
| 16:28.46 | shape | DocScrutinizer05: The reason for all this is because I was so pissed off how my android phone uploaded my contacts to my google account (including all phone numbers) WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME. |
| 16:29.11 | kerio | oh, those are accessible to the user, any program on maemo could do that |
| 16:29.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | with any commercial closed blob app that can happen to you on maemo as well. But no such app is knows to exist so far |
| 16:29.46 | shape | kerio: but only if it's malicious tho, correct? |
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| 16:30.04 | shape | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I don't use much anyway and I'd avoid closed/nonfree stuff |
| 16:30.08 | kerio | shape: i don't know of any program that does that without asking |
| 16:30.32 | kerio | yappari (a whatsapp client) obviously does, but iirc it asks for confirmation - and hell, you're kinda asking for it |
| 16:30.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | to install such malicious closed blob you'd need to add a repo to catalogs of HAM, and that's sth not any driveby on a website could do |
| 16:31.03 | shape | kerio: that's nice :) heck even the phone is 3 years old imo it's worth it for the stuff you are allowed to control, etc. |
| 16:31.06 | kerio | i don't know of any remote code execution exploit against fremantle |
| 16:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, none known |
| 16:31.52 | kerio | shape is making me nervous :s |
| 16:31.54 | kerio | disables non-free |
| 16:32.03 | shape | kerio: hahahahahhaha |
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| 16:33.51 | shape | kerio: if there are some android apps that I might need (like Medscape for example) is it possbile to install chroot android and use them like that? |
| 16:34.08 | kerio | in a chroot, not as i know |
| 16:34.14 | Drathir | DocScrutinizer05: sorry i go to rest when wrte that, but answer is no i dont get any PM from you, btw i think you dont have my mail adres because if good remember but not sure is hidden... |
| 16:35.22 | shape | kerio: what about a program like Stellarium. What would be the process to go about installing that? |
| 16:35.47 | shape | kerio: compile it in a VM running maemo? |
| 16:37.50 | kerio | is it in the debian repos? |
| 16:38.07 | jacekowski | stellarium on n900 will be a mistake |
| 16:38.13 | jacekowski | and it's probably hard to do |
| 16:38.14 | kerio | yes, that too :) |
| 16:38.19 | jacekowski | stellarium uses opengl |
| 16:38.19 | kerio | it's opengl, right? |
| 16:38.22 | jacekowski | n900 has no opengl |
| 16:38.47 | shape | jacekowski: is there a way to make opengl work? |
| 16:38.50 | jacekowski | n900 only has opengl ES (just like any other mobile device) |
| 16:39.08 | Drathir | shape: stellarium need opengl acceleration :/ |
| 16:39.16 | kerio | jacekowski: stellarium has a compile-time switch to use gles apparently |
| 16:39.23 | jacekowski | opengl es is a fairly limited version of opengl so it may be possible to port it |
| 16:39.40 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 16:39.44 | jacekowski | that will be easier then |
| 16:39.49 | kerio | hahaha wow there's a BUILD_FOR_MAEMO flag |
| 16:40.05 | shape | kerio: where did you see that? |
| 16:40.09 | kerio | http://stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Build_Options |
| 16:40.25 | kerio | shape: as far as i can see, stellarium is in extras-devel |
| 16:40.45 | shape | kerio: in the repositories? |
| 16:40.48 | kerio | yep |
| 16:41.08 | shape | kerio: Oh and I forgot to ask, can you install anything from the debian repositories and will it work? |
| 16:41.11 | Drathir | last time i try to stream from real pc throught ssh -X but sayy about opengl, anyway maybe port to n900 is possible who knowa |
| 16:41.16 | kerio | shape: nope |
| 16:41.41 | kerio | it might work if you go and grab a package from debian etch and it's not a complicated program |
| 16:42.01 | shape | kerio: so how will i know which programs will work and which will not? |
| 16:42.05 | kerio | test them |
| 16:42.10 | kerio | or run them in easydebian |
| 16:42.20 | kerio | which programs do you want to run? |
| 16:42.59 | Drathir | i still think how make wlan and gprs work together in one time :/ |
| 16:43.27 | shape | kerio: no idea, just curious what I could do with it. Easy Debian already will have what I mostly use day to day. |
| 16:44.01 | kerio | unless you have some pretty specific needs, easy debian's main use is the novelty factor, imo |
| 16:44.02 | shape | kerio: I'm new to linux and want to learn it, that's why i got the device, so i could tinker with it wherever i go. :) |
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| 16:44.08 | Drathir | btw throught ssh -X qt application looks like works rally nice... |
| 16:45.54 | shape | kerio: btw thanks a lot for the info, I really appreciate it. Now i'm even more exited and impatient for the phone to arrive. :) |
| 16:46.29 | shape | Oh, do you happen to know if there are other phones that will run pretty much any GNU/Linux OS. N900 seemed unique that way. |
| 16:46.42 | kerio | afaik, the n900 *is* unique that way |
| 16:46.47 | Drathir | shape: if you are new i reecomend you start from ubuntu 10.04 on pc next go to debian if still you like play with linux go to upper easier way and go to archlinux... |
| 16:47.19 | kerio | jacekowski: stellarium runs at ~15fps |
| 16:47.24 | kerio | i expected much worse |
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| 16:51.20 | shape | Drathir: Thanks for the info. I am already running Xubuntu 12.04 and installed Gentoo in a VM and tinkering with it there (A friend told me that's the best way to learn the inner workings) |
| 16:51.22 | Drathir | im not yet discowery clean maemo os and extra other os still wait for my patience... |
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| 16:51.54 | shape | kerio: you running stellarium at 15fps on an N900 right now? |
| 16:52.08 | kerio | yeah |
| 16:52.44 | shape | kerio: and everything is working? Installed it from the repos? |
| 16:52.51 | Drathir | shape: 12.04 on xubuntu is maybe too good way until unity is a really big mistake from cannonical in my opinion... |
| 16:52.51 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 16:52.59 | kerio | the UI is made for touchscreens apparently |
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| 16:53.32 | kerio | shape: i'm not entirely sure why you're so surprised |
| 16:53.35 | Drathir | kerio: 15fps is good result |
| 16:53.58 | shape | kerio: how is the battery on your device. Should I buy an extra one in case they get discontinued since the phone is quite old. |
| 16:54.19 | kerio | other, more popular, models have the same battery |
| 16:54.35 | kerio | i get far more than enough to last for a day of usage |
| 16:54.38 | shape | kerio: It's because it's awesome that I'll be albe to run that program on my phone. Not surprized but sort of excited. |
| 16:54.57 | kerio | i have a battery that's slightly better than the stock battery |
| 16:54.58 | shape | Drathir: What do you mean too good. But yeah I don't like Unity and I like the programs that come with Xubuntu. |
| 16:55.04 | kerio | at least, the old stock battery |
| 16:55.14 | kerio | the new stock battery is kinda like mine |
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| 16:55.33 | eccerr0r | pnnnn.... |
| 16:55.49 | shape | kerio: so I shouldn't worry about finding a battery in the next 1-2 years or so, right? |
| 16:55.55 | kerio | i dunno |
| 16:56.10 | kerio | there doesn't seem to be a shortage right now |
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| 16:57.13 | shape | kerio, what about programs like virtualbox, gparted, vlc, do they work? |
| 16:57.14 | Drathir | shape: i mean good too* because unity was terrible and xfce can be better if any junk from unity there in packages list... |
| 16:57.47 | kerio | i don't think virtualbox will be even remotely useful |
| 16:57.49 | kerio | the rest... sure, why not |
| 16:57.52 | shape | Drathir: Yeah I miss Gnome 2 :( My first linux OS was ubuntu 8.10 :) |
| 16:58.07 | kerio | vlc is in the repos, i think |
| 16:58.18 | sixwheeledbeast | shape: if you like gnome 2 reinstall it |
| 16:58.25 | Drathir | vlc works but i prefer mplayer anyway is still no gpu accelerate :/ |
| 16:58.37 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: yeah but it's not maintained as far as I'm aware. Just Mate which isn't stable |
| 16:58.50 | sixwheeledbeast | apt-get install gnome-fallback |
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| 17:00.31 | sixwheeledbeast | you can have gnome 3 that looks like gnome2 |
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| 17:00.49 | shape | kerio: what about Mozilla Thunderbird and Transmission. |
| 17:01.14 | eccerr0r | blah. hate it when tmobile latency gets random... hard to type esc-p esc-n and ~. ... |
| 17:01.15 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: yeah, I know about it, but I guess I settled with XFCE since my computer is 6 years old or so and it's light weight. |
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| 17:04.10 | sixwheeledbeast | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.16 | sixwheeledbeast | i suppose xfce is a good, lightweight option if thats an issue |
| 17:06.21 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: yup. I tried gnome-fallback long ago but I forgot why I didn't like it that much. I settle with Xubuntu also because of the programs it comes with, Thunderbird, Pidgin, etc. compared to Evolution and all the other stuff the original comes. |
| 17:06.38 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: and yeah, lightweight is definitely a must :) |
| 17:06.55 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: tried LXDE but it looks uglier than XFCE 4 |
| 17:07.24 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: and XFCE 4 seemed the most classic I could get. |
| 17:07.26 | sixwheeledbeast | gnome-fallback was horrible originally all sorts was broken, alot better now it's like gnome2 again really |
| 17:07.50 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: OH YEAH! it was buggy too, I remember now. So they fixed that? |
| 17:08.36 | sixwheeledbeast | all the widget/plugin are fixed and stable again. no troubles here since the last LTS |
| 17:09.35 | shape | sixwheeledbeast: I see, I'll check it out then. |
| 17:09.58 | shape | kerio: Thank for the info btw. I really appreciate it. I have to leave now. Take care! |
| 17:10.08 | shape | Thanks a lot guys for your help. |
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| 17:35.30 | ssvb | freemangordon: how did you run the benchmarks for http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1329678&postcount=140 ? also was new pixman built with exactly the same toolchain and the same optimization options? |
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| 17:37.20 | freemangordon | ssvb: yep, the same toolchain (stock gcc 4.2.1), same options. Two benchmarks, one being lowlevel-blt-bench, the other is cairo-demos |
| 17:37.50 | ssvb | freemangordon: do you have logs? |
| 17:38.07 | freemangordon | ssvb: gradient benchmark from cairo demos is 2 times slower with newer pixmap, I guess because of float instead of integer gradient |
| 17:38.12 | freemangordon | ssvb: logs? |
| 17:38.54 | freemangordon | I can run lowlevel-blt-bench all agains the two versions, but it will take time |
| 17:40.42 | ssvb | about gradients performance, it was probably this change - http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/commit/?id=1ca715ed1e6914e9bd9f050065e827d7a9e2efc9 |
| 17:41.05 | ssvb | and some of the follow up patches |
| 17:41.52 | freemangordon | ssvb: hmm, no, I guess it is the change from int div to float in linear gradients |
| 17:42.21 | freemangordon | I did oprofile, float <-> uint libc functions are on the top |
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| 17:42.47 | freemangordon | ssvb: however, the result is that it is two times slower :) |
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| 17:44.24 | freemangordon | ssvb: the last version with integer linear gradients is 19.04, this is what I am tweaking now |
| 17:45.12 | freemangordon | with a couple of NEON patches it (esp 02-ARM-added-NEON-optimizations-for-fetch-store-r5g6b5-.patch) it has the similar perforamnce |
| 17:45.43 | freemangordon | ssvb: BTW it turned out that fremantle pixman is 0.17.3, no matter what debian/changelog says :) |
| 17:46.51 | ssvb | the phoronix news about this gradients change - http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODY5Ng :) |
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| 17:47.34 | freemangordon | ssvb: maybe it is faster on SSE2 :) |
| 17:48.42 | ssvb | it's just phoronix :) the changes were just supposed to improve correctness of gradients to match PDF spec |
| 17:49.04 | freemangordon | yes, I dig a bit about that patch ;) |
| 17:49.12 | ssvb | so it's hard to compare performance, in fact it got worse |
| 17:49.23 | freemangordon | ssvb: it got 2 times slower on n900 |
| 17:51.30 | freemangordon | ssvb: oprofile for 0.28.2: http://pastebin.com/g8miSxij |
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| 17:51.54 | freemangordon | unfortunately I don't keep oprofile for stock |
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| 17:52.42 | freemangordon | CPU is doing nothing but float<-> int conversions :D |
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| 17:54.42 | freemangordon | damn, stock is still 30% faster on add_8_8_8 than 0.19.4 :( |
| 17:54.50 | freemangordon | I guess I should give up on that |
| 17:56.45 | Woody14619 | I'm away for a while (maybe forever as far as IRC is concerned). If anyone needs anything, you can find my e-mail pretty easily. (same nick as here at yahoo) |
| 17:56.49 | Woody14619 | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1329851&postcount=81 |
| 17:57.39 | ssvb | freemangordon: add_8_8_8 should not be a big problem, but gradients surely need more love (and SIMD code) |
| 17:58.14 | ssvb | but the newer versions of pixman have optimizations for bilinear scaling, that's quite important |
| 17:58.42 | freemangordon | ssvb: it IS problem, I won't introduce speed regressions via CSSU for n900 with its weak CPU |
| 17:58.53 | freemangordon | ssvb: yep, scaling performs much better |
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| 18:15.57 | freemangordon | ssvb: there is another problem with 0.2.82, check the results for HT VT and R here http://pastebin.com/acyVcFAm |
| 18:16.05 | freemangordon | *0.28.2 |
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| 18:17.08 | freemangordon | ssvb: I guess it is related to prefetching, but I am not that good on ARM asm to find the exact problem |
| 18:18.11 | freemangordon | or maybe I am missing some NEON patch |
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| 18:26.29 | Drathir | im wrong or gprs take a lot of power than normal phone? |
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| 18:36.04 | thedead1440 | ~spank woody14619 wherever he is |
| 18:36.04 | infobot | ACTION bends woody14619 wherever he is over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on woody14619 wherever he is's pasty white buttocks. |
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| 18:40.27 | ShadowJK | Drathir, about the same, if data transfer is active |
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| 18:58.18 | Drathir | ShadowJK: thats mean my n900 gprs behaviours looks strange :/ |
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| 19:00.28 | Drathir | connection is unstable and often connection some kind of freezeing the disconnect and connect again dont work say cant connect and to work again i must reboot the device... |
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| 19:24.34 | Drathir | and also drain much more battery power than wifi and on gprs more than e51 in past when using... is any possibility to debug gprs connection? |
| 19:25.18 | ShadowJK | I don't know of methods to debug |
| 19:25.38 | ShadowJK | But I do know that when I'm in low signal conditions, like out at sea, my N900 eats huge amounts of power if online |
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| 19:59.07 | M4rtinK | any luck with the autobuilder ? |
| 19:59.11 | qwazix | kerio, shape, http://stellarium-mobile.org/ (IIRC better version than the one on devel available in ovi for 3e) |
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| 20:00.28 | M4rtinK | I summarized my findings about its state in this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1329882&postcount=62 |
| 20:02.18 | kerio | qwazix: 3€? |
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| 20:23.38 | Drathir | ShadowJK: is not full signal but with the same location on e51 looks that better and more stable, that the reason... |
| 20:26.28 | n900-dk_ | Any idea what is causing this high power usage? http://pastebin.com/ZANLiyXx |
| 20:27.02 | n900-dk_ | What is IRQ#12 DMA? |
| 20:28.24 | qwazix | kerio, yep |
| 20:30.32 | Drathir | dma mode looks for me like some kind of drive |
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| 20:31.30 | n900-dk_ | what can cause this high activity? |
| 20:31.45 | kerio | emmc access? |
| 20:34.08 | n900-dk_ | could trackerd be responsible? |
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| 20:36.31 | n900-dk | do we have a command to see drive activity listed for every process? |
| 20:37.45 | jacekowski | iotop |
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| 20:39.57 | n900-dk | Could not run iotop as some of the requirements are not met: |
| 20:39.57 | n900-dk | - Linux >= 2.6.20 with - I/O accounting support (CONFIG_TASKSTATS, CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT, CONFIG_TASK_IO_ACCOUNTING) |
| 20:40.04 | n900-dk | where did I fail? |
| 20:40.22 | Drathir | what is tsc2005 ? |
| 20:43.08 | Drathir | checked iotop working for me... |
| 20:43.25 | jacekowski | kp? |
| 20:43.48 | n900-dk | no kp |
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| 20:44.39 | n900-dk | kp is mandatory? |
| 20:45.23 | Drathir | n900-dk: have you power kernel? |
| 20:45.28 | n900-dk | no |
| 20:45.33 | Drathir | ok |
| 20:46.03 | n900-dk | do I have to to run iotop? |
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| 20:52.00 | Drathir | n900-dk: looks like yes or maybe is need load some of modules... |
| 20:52.58 | Drathir | i check with power kernel... |
| 20:53.14 | n900-dk | I will try to install power kernel, thx |
| 20:58.02 | Drathir | n900-dk: take a backup all data... |
| 20:59.03 | n900-dk | Drathir: power kernel did the job :) |
| 20:59.13 | n900-dk | ohh, forgot the backup ;) |
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| 21:43.58 | jacekowski | M4rtinK: ping |
| 21:45.18 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: pong |
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| 21:47.13 | jacekowski | M4rtinK: can you try uploading again |
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| 21:50.06 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: ok |
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| 21:50.19 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: I'm on it |
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| 21:51.43 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: should be in |
| 21:53.42 | M4rtinK | version 0.39.11 BTW |
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| 21:57.58 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: definitely looks better :) |
| 21:58.14 | M4rtinK | just got a full BUILD OK message |
| 21:59.06 | M4rtinK | http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/modrana/0.39.11/ also looks fine |
| 21:59.37 | M4rtinK | and the build also showed up in "latest packages" |
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| 22:01.37 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:04.36 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: how often are packages imported to devel ? |
| 22:06.23 | jacekowski | every few minutes |
| 22:06.42 | jacekowski | 2 minutes |
| 22:08.35 | M4rtinK | well, still not there: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/m/modrana/ |
| 22:08.53 | M4rtinK | at least when looking at it in browser |
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| 22:11.37 | jacekowski | it takes another couple minutes for it to sync |
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| 22:11.59 | M4rtinK | ah, ok |
| 22:12.12 | jacekowski | it's there now |
| 22:14.48 | M4rtinK | nice ! :) |
| 22:14.55 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: good job, thanks ! :) |
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| 22:15.39 | jacekowski | and list maillist should work |
| 22:15.43 | jacekowski | well, it looks like it works |
| 22:15.50 | jacekowski | https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2013-March/thread.html |
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| 22:15.53 | M4rtinK | looks like it takes about 25 minutes - so it is on par with the previous setup, maybe faster :) |
| 22:16.18 | M4rtinK | cool ! :) |
| 22:17.15 | M4rtinK | also the logs look fine |
| 22:21.59 | jacekowski | so that leaves web ui |
| 22:22.11 | jacekowski | and midgard issue with modrana |
| 22:23.01 | M4rtinK | yep |
| 22:24.56 | M4rtinK | BTW, doesn't seem to be only a modRana issue: http://maemo.org/packages/view/gpodder/ also doesn't work |
| 22:25.30 | M4rtinK | + another midgard: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/latest/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/all/ |
| 22:25.38 | M4rtinK | is not updating :) |
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| 23:57.10 | Macer | heh |
| 23:57.18 | Macer | i'm still looking around this unity thing and like |
| 23:57.24 | Macer | it isn't as exciting as the video made it out to be |
| 23:57.31 | Macer | i think i was suckered by the csi music in the background |
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| 23:58.35 | Macer | it's just gnome |
| 23:58.46 | Macer | made to look like osx with the dock on its left :) |
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