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| 00:17.02 | Luke-Jr | X-Chat segfaulting -.- |
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| 04:36.44 | Macer | hi! |
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| 05:02.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328897#post1328897 |
| 05:03.11 | freemangordon | nice |
| 05:03.14 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 05:04.05 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer05 -> DNS switch for migra#2 pending - see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328897#post1328897 || Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-fu |
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| 05:05.32 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 05:06.17 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer05 -> DNS switch for migra#2 pending - see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328897 || Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 05:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | moos at freemangordon |
| 05:12.04 | freemangordon | morning doc |
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| 08:58.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen pali |
| 08:58.15 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14h 54m 53s ago, saying: 'I remember that there was big problems about it...'. |
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| 08:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2) Delete the expired Release, Release.gpg, Packages and Packages.gz |
| 08:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | from the local replica of the repo |
| 08:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3) Use atpftparchive and gzip to create these files anew |
| 08:59.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4) Sign the whole thing using our renewed 4v1 key |
| 08:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5) Upload the new signed repo back to SSU into a temp folder. |
| 08:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | renewed 4v1 key??? how is this gonna work? |
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| 08:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | no cert on any device for such a "renewed 4v1 key" |
| 09:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told Pali they wouldn't really grok the ramifications of that 4v1 exoired |
| 09:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: freemangordon: ^^^ |
| 09:01.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | (from Matti/ext-Nokia) |
| 09:02.11 | kerio | yeah, they don't understand |
| 09:02.33 | kerio | there's no mechanism for automatic key renewal in apt |
| 09:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the whole point |
| 09:02.59 | kerio | you have packages that hold keys that are updated quite some time before the current keys expire |
| 09:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so rolling out what's basically an update, based on a "renewed" 4v1-key, without shipping new cert to install to devices same time, is futile |
| 09:04.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 09:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | given the expiration date is in the cert on device, not in the signing key used on server side |
| 09:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless I'm *completely* mistaken |
| 09:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to *somehow* deploy a *new* standard key cert to devices |
| 09:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and/or sign the repo with a key that has a valid cert on all devices still |
| 09:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | such key would be that sw-admin key |
| 09:09.10 | kerio | yep |
| 09:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | any such repo"-update" SHOULD deploy a renewed cert for a 4v9 key, which community could inherit |
| 09:10.06 | kerio | and to deploy the key, the only option at this point is to poison packages in extras |
| 09:10.10 | kerio | but fuck that |
| 09:10.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: and that's exactly what we should do |
| 09:10.42 | kerio | no we shouldn't |
| 09:11.40 | kerio | especially because we should poison *everything* to be sure |
| 09:11.51 | kerio | and even that it's not guaranteed to work |
| 09:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I think we could also provide a new certs-pkg for SSU that includes a cert to a key we created and that gets included to SSU as an update to the existing certs-pkg and then gets signed (like whole repo"-update" by that SW-adm-key so devices would accept it |
| 09:12.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/te"/te")/ |
| 09:14.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | from that moment on we could sign new SSU updates with that new community-borne secret key |
| 09:14.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | while the then-current SSU would be signed by SW-adm key and probably would stay like that for quite some time |
| 09:14.58 | kerio | hm, i don't think that there's a way of doing that cleanly |
| 09:15.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | for *next* update however we wouldn't need the SW-adm key anymore |
| 09:15.07 | kerio | you'd have to add a key to a domain |
| 09:15.35 | kerio | and iirc that's dealt with by the ham package |
| 09:16.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh c'mon there *is* *some* package in core Nokia repos that ships the certs, no? |
| 09:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, quite likely *ham*.dpk |
| 09:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | pali elaborated on all that |
| 09:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | however the suggested solution been not clear enough to Nokia it seems, or maybe not even been properly thought |
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| 09:20.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I asked pali to send a postscriptum mail to matti, explaining clearly what needs to be done. He preferred to wait for Matti's answer first. Now e have that answer. I think it's about time to send that postscriptum mail now, that clearly puts straight what are the steps to get done, to reclaim control over the SSU repo |
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| 09:24.42 | guly | i'm off since some months, are still fightin with nokia for SSU repo? |
| 09:24.47 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: one part of it is the keys... ah ok, we can just ship the updated key |
| 09:25.13 | kerio | the thing is, HAM wants a valid key and wants that key to be listed in its weird domain thing |
| 09:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: there *is* *one* valid key: SW-adm-key |
| 09:25.47 | kerio | indeed |
| 09:26.21 | kerio | but a package to add more keys to the current domains will kinda conflict with the existing one |
| 09:26.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | use this key to deploy a renewed cert for 4v1.1 key |
| 09:26.47 | kerio | that would work |
| 09:27.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much ;-D |
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| 09:53.33 | kerio | it's still kind of ugly to make though |
| 09:53.51 | kerio | because iirc variant-keys.gpg is in the HAM package |
| 09:54.51 | kerio | oh no, it's a separate package |
| 09:55.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so, we need to test what happens if we make hildon-application-manager-settings-standard a user package and update that |
| 09:55.44 | kerio | like, what happens if a user tries to remove it |
| 09:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | why do we need to make it a user package? |
| 09:56.27 | kerio | because otherwise HAM won't even prompt for its update |
| 09:56.32 | kerio | it's either that, or pr1.3.2 |
| 09:56.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not simply edit maemo-MP-PR? |
| 09:56.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | call it PR1.3.2 and good |
| 09:56.56 | kerio | i'm not entirely sure nokia will like that |
| 09:57.06 | kerio | also, if "we" do pr 1.3.2 we should also add the turktrust fix |
| 09:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia doesn't give a shit |
| 09:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the idea |
| 09:57.23 | kerio | yeah but we're asking nokia to do those modifications for us |
| 09:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Matti probably asked because they planned to add turktrust fix |
| 09:58.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, Nokia is doing those for them |
| 09:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since they want to fix that |
| 09:58.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not "for us" |
| 09:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's ext-nokia/matti who's willing to fix fremantle repos |
| 09:59.39 | kerio | i see |
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| 10:00.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when he needs to edit mp-pr for that, so what? |
| 10:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | when he declares that PR1.3.2, even fine!! "nokia still cares" who's to be blamed for that? |
| 10:01.09 | kerio | yay nokia :3 |
| 10:01.34 | kerio | but i thought that to release a new pr they needed extensive testing |
| 10:01.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually Nokia-the-inc kinda actually still cares, since they pay Matti and colleagues to maintain fremantle |
| 10:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | c'mon extensive testing for *one* updated package? |
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| 10:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | it would seem like you can scientifically prove what impact it can have, at worst case |
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| 10:04.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | just calling it pr1.3.2 and shipping a new cert-pkg doesn't mean we need to re-test dialer, modest, hildon-desktop, whatnot else |
| 10:04.12 | kerio | also, aren't you supposed to fix things such as CA problems really, really quickly? :) |
| 10:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, OT |
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| 10:08.22 | divVerent | how do I check if a BL-5J is genuine? |
| 10:08.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, so here we go: create a new signature key 4v99. add the cert of that key to the certs.dpk. add that updated certs.dpk to repo, edit mp-pr to depend on that new certs.dpk. Add turktrust fixes to the browser certificates (!!unrelated!!). Sign the whole stuff with SW-adm key, call it "PR1.3.2 Maemo Fremantle security system-update" and deloy via Nokia SSU |
| 10:09.11 | divVerent | have a toy (MP3 player) that contains a BL-5J, would know if I can safely use it as 2nd battery for the N900 |
| 10:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you can |
| 10:10.30 | divVerent | the toy came from the Ukraine, it may be a fake ;) |
| 10:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter |
| 10:11.20 | divVerent | ah, it IS a fake, as I see now, it does not have nokia written on it... ok, then it probably is "honest rebuilt" ;) |
| 10:11.24 | divVerent | like the ebay stuff |
| 10:11.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're 99.999999999% *safe* to try it anyway |
| 10:11.31 | divVerent | good :P |
| 10:11.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst thing that could happen: it performs poorly or doesn't work at all |
| 10:11.51 | divVerent | ok |
| 10:12.14 | divVerent | it quite sure will not explode ;) |
| 10:12.23 | divVerent | it worked in the player after all |
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| 10:27.33 | divVerent | ok, my current state of the disk encryption stuff AND the gconf moving: MOST settings survive, oddly, the screen vibration setting gets reset on reboot |
| 10:27.41 | divVerent | it seems to be the only one yet |
| 10:28.07 | divVerent | and for some reason (I DID make homedir and gconf empty for normal bootup) the clock is in 12 hour mode despite the language scheme set to Europe/Berlin |
| 10:28.46 | divVerent | (ok, just found that setting now) |
| 10:30.44 | divVerent | also, WLAN settings seem to get lost at bootup, but THAT probably is fixable by a SIGHUP or SIGTERM to the right process |
| 10:31.17 | divVerent | (but that's unconfirmed, I just had a bad power down due to removing the battery, fsck then wanted some stuff to be manually fixed, so it MIGHT also have been that) |
| 10:31.26 | divVerent | I had thought I can safely pull the battery when on USB... I could not |
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| 11:03.10 | divVerent | yes, I do lose the WLAN settings on every bootup with my current setup... apparently these are started by upstart before the mounts |
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| 11:17.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: well, you basically can't pull battery any time unless device powered down. (there are tricks to do so, see my tmo "hotswap battery" thread. that however is not exactly interesting for your usecase I guess) |
| 11:21.03 | divVerent | haha, so basically this is yet another thing this evil bme does... |
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| 11:23.21 | divVerent | BTW, how critical are the operations of bme anyway? Does bme actually control the charging (so a misbehaving bme could actually cause one of those LiIon fires)? |
| 11:23.53 | divVerent | Or is it like "usual" and the actual charging circuit is in the battery, and bme only controls how much current it can crain from USB? |
| 11:25.46 | kerio | divVerent: the worst you can do is charge the battery too quickly and wear it down |
| 11:26.02 | kerio | but if the battery is good, that won't be dangerous |
| 11:26.11 | kerio | there's two chips regulating battery and charge |
| 11:26.18 | divVerent | ah, ok |
| 11:26.31 | kerio | one of them is supposed to be mounted to the battery, but it's in the n900 instead |
| 11:26.50 | kerio | which leads to loss of calibration when you change batteries :( |
| 11:26.59 | kerio | apart from that, it's Safe™ |
| 11:27.11 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: correct? |
| 11:27.20 | divVerent | BTW, is it safe to do the calibration script when just being connected to a notebook?+ |
| 11:27.21 | divVerent | PROBABLY yes, in worst case it'll power off at the end |
| 11:27.22 | divVerent | is my guess |
| 11:27.34 | divVerent | but that's already AFTER the mAh value got updated |
| 11:27.46 | kerio | i think you can reach VDQ with a usb host charger |
| 11:27.54 | kerio | but i'm not sure |
| 11:28.03 | kerio | because musb_core takes lots of power to keep a usb host connection active |
| 11:28.10 | kerio | so you have... hm, 420mA for charging? |
| 11:28.13 | divVerent | ah, I see |
| 11:28.15 | kerio | yeah, that should be enough |
| 11:28.20 | divVerent | but basically, the script will tell me if it won't work |
| 11:28.40 | kerio | the script does nothing you couldn't do with your hands |
| 11:28.44 | divVerent | as VDQ is that state the battery needs to be in to start learning |
| 11:28.45 | divVerent | sure |
| 11:28.49 | divVerent | well, it does ONE thing |
| 11:28.51 | divVerent | resume charging when done |
| 11:29.03 | kerio | you could do that with your hands! |
| 11:29.09 | divVerent | if I watch it all the time, sure ;) |
| 11:29.12 | Veggen | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:29.14 | Veggen | urgh. |
| 11:29.17 | *** part/#maemo Veggen (~vegard@vegard.engen.priv.no) |
| 11:29.19 | kerio | don't leave #maemo! |
| 11:29.20 | kerio | :( |
| 11:30.29 | divVerent | all the script really seems to do, is: stopping BME, checking VDQ ("full") state first, i2c hacks to turn off any charging despite being connected, stopping BME based charging, and waiting till battery is empty enough to have updated its data |
| 11:30.42 | divVerent | but most of the hacks are only needed BECAUSE of being plugged in while doing it |
| 11:31.01 | divVerent | so I would THINK a recalibration can also be done by first ensuring VDQ, then just unplugging and waiting for it to turn itself off |
| 11:31.55 | divVerent | unless BME then would power down too early, in which case shutting down BME would also be necessary ;) also, LiIons don't like being empty for a while, which is why the method to instantly turn on charging again when "empty" is better to the battery |
| 11:32.04 | divVerent | than e.g. letting it run out over night then sitting in that state for hours |
| 11:33.07 | divVerent | I do wonder though why a "recalibration script" even was necessary... I mean, notebooks don't need that |
| 11:34.00 | divVerent | BTW, does BME really FULLY ignore the calibration data? |
| 11:36.24 | divVerent | as in, does a miscalibration on that chip lead to too early power down? |
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| 11:41.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep, correct |
| 11:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | calibration will work from USB as well |
| 11:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB host that is |
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| 11:42.58 | divVerent | and what is the impact of wrong calibration data, when using BME? none? |
| 11:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's using normal bme controlled charging, just stops bme to discharge battery til learning cycle completed, then restarts bme |
| 11:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: none |
| 11:43.13 | divVerent | good |
| 11:43.20 | divVerent | just asking, as I am now calibrating for the other battery |
| 11:43.28 | divVerent | and when that is done, I probabyl won't recalibrate for the main one again |
| 11:43.31 | divVerent | as I know its capacity now |
| 11:44.15 | divVerent | it's 1158mAh, quite the expected value given initial capacity and age of the battery |
| 11:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | calibration will usually not work the manual way you suggested. BME / bat-applet will shutdown before chip completed learning cycle |
| 11:44.45 | divVerent | ok |
| 11:44.51 | divVerent | so for the "manual way" one would have to stop BME anyway |
| 11:44.56 | divVerent | and thus risk deep discharge |
| 11:45.22 | divVerent | which probably the security chip on the battery will prevent, but it lowers battery life anyway |
| 11:45.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:46.02 | divVerent | also, I remmeber Nokias don't like to wake up immediately from a totally discharged battery even when on the charger |
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| 11:46.09 | divVerent | the N900 probably has the same issue :P |
| 11:46.22 | divVerent | and then take up to half an hour to be able to be powered on again |
| 11:46.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 11:46.50 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 11:47.13 | divVerent | yes, same procedure as with other nokias :P |
| 11:47.22 | kerio | divVerent: the n900 is similar to every other nokia, yes |
| 11:47.28 | kerio | that's why ACT_DEAD exists, afaik |
| 11:47.31 | kerio | well, that and alarms |
| 11:47.37 | divVerent | AH, that's what it does :P |
| 11:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, ACT_DEAD is unrelated to flatbatrecover |
| 11:47.49 | divVerent | so even in this state the linux system is actually booted... |
| 11:47.52 | divVerent | kinda weird design |
| 11:47.53 | divVerent | oh, ok then |
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| 11:47.59 | kerio | flatbatrecover is a NOLO thing |
| 11:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 11:48.06 | kerio | charging while "turned off" still boots the kernel |
| 11:48.11 | kerio | no? |
| 11:48.24 | divVerent | 12:48:06 kerio | charging while "turned off" still boots the kernel |
| 11:48.34 | divVerent | which explains the stupid annoying "cannot power off when on USB" issue ;) |
| 11:48.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | emergency charging is a mere hw thing, done because CPU can't boot yet |
| 11:48.35 | kerio | that's the normal charge |
| 11:48.41 | divVerent | probably has to be done so that BME can run |
| 11:48.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: oh, so it's even before ROMBL? |
| 11:48.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:48.59 | kerio | i see |
| 11:49.18 | kerio | what checks VBAT before allowing you to power on? |
| 11:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | SoC needs a certain minimum voltage of some 3300mV or whatever, to boot into cpu working state |
| 11:49.55 | divVerent | ah... now I see what emergency charging is REALLY for |
| 11:50.02 | kerio | emergency charging is to allow you to boot |
| 11:50.03 | divVerent | the dead battery state... NOT the case that BME doesn't work :P |
| 11:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 11:50.44 | kerio | divVerent: this design has a critical flaw that leads to a "brick" if you don't have another way to charge the battery: |
| 11:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a property of the bq24150 charger chip |
| 11:50.46 | divVerent | hm... I don't trust the calibration value... 1158mAh sounds good, it has 1320 printed on it... but that's 88% of original |
| 11:50.53 | divVerent | but aren't they supposed to lose 20% per yearß⎈ |
| 11:50.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | to bootstrap from flat battery |
| 11:50.57 | kerio | if you bork your rootfs, and lower the battery below the flashing threshold, you're boned |
| 11:51.24 | kerio | boned-ish, because you can still boot rescueOS and charge from that, aiui |
| 11:51.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's another unrelated issue |
| 11:51.36 | kerio | no, wait, can you? |
| 11:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's actually a NOLO thing |
| 11:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can, as long as NOLO allows it ;-) |
| 11:52.12 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: will NOLO allow you to load rescueOS with a low battery? |
| 11:52.18 | divVerent | kerio: but emergency charging still works... or does it not bring the battery up enough? |
| 11:52.28 | kerio | emergency charging is enough to boot, not enough to flash |
| 11:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I actually dunno if NOLO would allow RAMload rescueos |
| 11:52.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: NOLO isn't signed, right? |
| 11:52.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO isn't signed |
| 11:52.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | XLoader is |
| 11:52.59 | kerio | can't we lower the value it checks for with hex editing? |
| 11:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 11:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | you 'just' need to disassemble and analyze/RE it |
| 11:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 11:54.12 | kerio | just change every instance of the voltage it wants with a lower voltage |
| 11:54.15 | kerio | what can possibly go wrong |
| 11:54.31 | *** join/#maemo Muelli (~muelli@port-56533.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 11:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83880 Custom NOLO Splash, USB and R&D icons |
| 11:55.39 | kerio | let's get HiFo to pay for a Hex-Rays ARM license for jonwil! |
| 11:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you have a few 100k of bytes you can try to change ;-P |
| 11:56.29 | kerio | i can't believe nobody has put the arm disassembler on bittorrent :s |
| 11:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: now THAT would be a great idea, and actually inline with what HiFo is meant to do |
| 11:56.55 | kerio | ah, here's an explanation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2611984 :( |
| 11:58.32 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: apparently hex-rays doesn't even want your money unless you're special or have a perfect track record of keeping it for yourself |
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| 12:06.13 | Macer | wow |
| 12:06.19 | Macer | another stranded carnival cruise ship |
| 12:11.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | another cryptic comment that nobody can make sense out of |
| 12:12.28 | thedead1440 | lol |
| 12:14.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: when you paid a sufficiently high amount of money for a licence of a program that comes with dongle and watermark, then your motivation to crack and piratebay it are rather limited |
| 12:15.39 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: the hex-rays arm decompiler has a 105GB bounty on what.cd |
| 12:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when a support account is a huge part of that deal, and you'd risk to see that account go poof and void when you'd dare to mess with proliferating your copy |
| 12:15.56 | kerio | that's a lot! |
| 12:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of it like MSDN, kind of |
| 12:18.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're paying to be a member of a very exclusive club, where quite exclusive service is offered to those who are members |
| 12:18.48 | *** join/#maemo stardiviner (~stardivin@122.236.244.146) |
| 12:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess all members contribute to that service by sharing their own results to others, indirectly via the company |
| 12:19.22 | jaska | msdn is far more mundane |
| 12:19.27 | thedead1440 | hmm MSDN isn't that exclusive nowadays isn't it? |
| 12:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 12:20.01 | jaska | hex-rays sits in stratospheric ivory towers |
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| 12:24.01 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 12:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | HEXALLLx86+ARM Decompiler Base License (Linux) 2699 EUR |
| 12:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely reasonable |
| 12:24.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually a bargain |
| 12:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare that e.g. to Lauterbach products |
| 12:24.45 | Macer | don't you have to send in dna for a copy? |
| 12:25.01 | Macer | as well as your first born's soul for collateral? |
| 12:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This order form is for IDA Computer Licenses only. IDA Computer licenses can be used on a single computer b yany user, provided than the simultaneous seat count does not exceed the license seats. In order to benefit fro mthe discounted "additional user" prices for IDA, additional seats have to be purchased at the same time as th einitial license they complement.<< So no, I can't see any special conditions |
| 12:27.24 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is that the disassembler or the decompiler? |
| 12:27.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | HEXARM LARM Decompiler Base License (Linux )1800 EUR |
| 12:27.54 | kerio | hm |
| 12:28.15 | kerio | are the licenses transferrable? |
| 12:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 12:28.24 | kerio | like, if HiFo actually decided to buy it |
| 12:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This order form is for IDA Computer Licenses only. IDA Computer licenses can be used on a single computer b yany user, provided than the simultaneous seat count does not exceed the license seats. In order to benefit fro mthe discounted "additional user" prices for IDA, additional seats have to be purchased at the same time as th einitial license they complement.<< So no, I can't see any special conditions |
| 12:28.32 | deepy | it does say single computer any user |
| 12:28.39 | kerio | hm |
| 12:29.34 | kerio | well, we could install it on a private VM on maemo.org |
| 12:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 12:29.46 | kerio | and let just one person at a time access it |
| 12:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | we probably are allowed to do so, yes |
| 12:30.20 | kerio | i mean, what do we need money for? |
| 12:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | given you can't log in with more than one VNC concurrently |
| 12:30.47 | kerio | i was thinking x forwarding actually |
| 12:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | or that |
| 12:31.39 | kerio | i wonder if we can batch process every ARM binary on dmnc :> |
| 12:32.08 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: where is that order form? |
| 12:33.11 | Macer | oh nm |
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| 12:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.hex-rays.com/products/decompiler/order.shtml |
| 12:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could have known, no? |
| 12:33.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hehe, 1800 plus the cost of IDA |
| 12:34.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 12:34.44 | kerio | hex-rays runs on top of ida |
| 12:34.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | you think ALL doesn't mean all? |
| 12:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 12:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno |
| 12:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | IDAPROCL IDA Pro Base Computer License (Linux )1299 EUR |
| 12:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | k, that's 3k € then, still not too much for the amount of funds HiFo has collected ;-D |
| 12:42.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | UPDHEXARML Support renewal for ARM Decompiler License (Linux )600 EUR <- 1 year |
| 12:43.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we have permission to redistribute (C)Nokia things, right? |
| 12:43.08 | kerio | who has the right to the decompiled source? |
| 12:43.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | UPDPROCL support renewal for IDA Pro Computer License (Linux) 429 EUR |
| 12:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting question |
| 12:44.19 | kerio | non-free with source is an interesting concept |
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| 12:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
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| 12:47.01 | divVerent | another thing... often when I power up the N90, it instgantly shuts down after dsme startup |
| 12:47.15 | divVerent | by setting upstart's bootstate to SHUTDOWN |
| 12:47.36 | divVerent | any obvious reason for it? |
| 12:47.41 | divVerent | I see no errors in the backlight-less console |
| 12:48.03 | divVerent | which I see due to added "modprobe fbcon" early |
| 12:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | though not entirely unheard, it's not a really known problem |
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| 13:04.43 | Macer | kerio: i thought decompiled anything rewritten was fair game |
| 13:05.06 | kerio | i think that binary->decompiler->upload is stretching it |
| 13:05.10 | Macer | ie: manage to learn how they did it and use that in order to write your own that will function |
| 13:05.32 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: yes, it's normally invisible |
| 13:05.36 | kerio | no i meant batch uploading the decompiled source |
| 13:05.41 | divVerent | and just shows up as power up not doing "the right thing", and a second attempt to work |
| 13:05.49 | divVerent | so I suppose most people don'Ät even care :P |
| 13:06.03 | divVerent | to me it SEEMS to happen especially when connected to USB |
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| 13:06.19 | Macer | not sure |
| 13:06.30 | Macer | but.... |
| 13:06.36 | Macer | i'm pretty sure i saw an article about this |
| 13:06.38 | kerio | it's probably not going to be remotely good anyway |
| 13:06.46 | kerio | you have to tweak a bunch of things when decompiling |
| 13:06.54 | Macer | that you can take a decompiled program, rewrite, and distribute as you see fit |
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| 13:08.11 | Macer | In the United States, the copyright fair use defense has been successfully invoked in decompilation cases. For example, in Sega v. Accolade, the court held that Accolade could lawfully engage in decompilation in order to circumvent the software locking mechanism used by Sega's game consoles |
| 13:08.31 | Macer | wow lol |
| 13:09.16 | Macer | In Europe, the 1991 Software Directive explicitly provides for a right to decompile in order to achieve interoperability. |
| 13:09.23 | Macer | wikipedia has everything |
| 13:10.12 | Macer | so if you were to decompile and replace strictly using the decompiled program to achieve interoperability you are fine :) |
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| 14:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | for those peeping: http://privatepaste.com/c6e7b160c7 |
| 14:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | t-180m |
| 14:03.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | based on http://pastebin.com/sCJ4uw27 |
| 14:04.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] in 3h from now, all maemo.org services except tmo are expected to go down for a few hours |
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| 14:48.58 | hanning | hi, is there a "screen" for maemo/n900? |
| 14:50.06 | inz | iirc tmux was in some repo |
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| 14:59.45 | joga | hmm, seems I have screen from somewhere, user doesn't seem to have permission to /var/run/screen though but it starts as root |
| 15:00.14 | joga | haven't messed with the phone in a long time now since it's been working so well :p |
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| 15:14.50 | sardini | hello |
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| 15:20.59 | divVerent | can anyone recommend a GOOD webkit browser for Maemo? As alternative to MicroB to try out. |
| 15:21.07 | divVerent | I think I have tried them all, and they all had annoying display issues... |
| 15:21.26 | divVerent | like old pixels not being repainted when scrolling around, much more annoying than using white for not yet rendered areas |
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| 15:29.25 | kerio | ew, why webkit? :( |
| 15:31.32 | deepy | why not webkit? |
| 15:32.25 | jon_y | isn't webkit from Apple? |
| 15:32.43 | jon_y | therefore, eew :) |
| 15:33.26 | deepy | Even better, it's also from Google |
| 15:33.59 | jon_y | double eew |
| 15:34.22 | jon_y | hard trying to escape from apple and google :) |
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| 15:35.16 | divVerent | jon_y: KTHML ;) |
| 15:35.19 | divVerent | seriously, though |
| 15:35.26 | divVerent | because I already have a good Gecko browser (MicroB) |
| 15:35.37 | divVerent | so I want to find out if a Webkit browser can perform better on the N900 or not |
| 15:36.01 | divVerent | I would _also_ like a tuned-for-speed ultrafast featureless browser |
| 15:36.14 | divVerent | I tried dillo for it, but it doesn't support drag-scrolling on the N900 |
| 15:36.48 | divVerent | maybe I should patch dillo for better N900 support... not sure how easy that would be though |
| 15:37.00 | divVerent | the main things needed are dragscrolling, and "right click by click and hold" |
| 15:37.17 | divVerent | also, virtual keyboard entry should work on location bar and input fields |
| 15:37.19 | divVerent | that's basically it |
| 15:37.49 | divVerent | some guy actually did something like it by emulating the middle mouse button for dragscroll using an external script... but that's ugly and can break in many ways |
| 15:38.04 | divVerent | e.g. when switching out of dillo and into something else while dragscroll is active :P |
| 15:38.51 | divVerent | which is BTW another idea I may want to do anyway on the N900... there is this mostly unused distance sensor thing, which can be used to emulate ONE extra mouse button |
| 15:39.04 | divVerent | by remapping mouse buttons via xmodmap when it's touched |
| 15:39.14 | divVerent | do we have a SECOND mostly unused sensor/button available, for middle mouse? ;) |
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| 15:41.24 | divVerent | hm... for right mouse button I could probably live with something like ctrl-click, and use sensor-click for middle |
| 15:42.00 | divVerent | given most context menu options in dillo require keyboard input anyway (e.g. save as) |
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| 15:50.51 | kerio | divVerent: there's opera, for fast browsing |
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| 15:59.10 | divVerent | kerio: not really faster - more like equal to MicroB |
| 15:59.15 | divVerent | Opera was indeed not quite bad |
| 15:59.27 | divVerent | faster for some stuff, slower for other stuff... but in the end slower for me |
| 15:59.38 | divVerent | e.g. it's quite slow for large simple HTML files (ebooks) |
| 15:59.44 | divVerent | illegal ebooks, that is ;) |
| 16:00.00 | divVerent | but, it has that "Turbo" proxy server feature, which is great when in GPRS or 3G |
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| 16:00.33 | divVerent | maybe should check if I can somehow set up bookmark sync betwen MicroB and Opera, and change the browser switcher so that its default depends on 3G/Wifi :P |
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| 16:35.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | waiting for godot, err Santa, err.... *the* DNS switch |
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| 16:43.17 | fil | what repos should one be pointing at if one wants to track development of new stuff? (I get the impression that very little gets updated in the repos I'm currently using, so imagine developers are using repos elsewhere, or is there just very little development happening these days) |
| 16:45.43 | kerio | there's just very little development i'm afraid |
| 16:46.11 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why wasn't the TTL gradually lowered in this past week? |
| 16:46.18 | kerio | flees >:D |
| 16:46.40 | ShadowJK | I imagine bcause RTT to hostmaster exceeds a week ;D |
| 16:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no idea, ask nokia DNS-authority/hostmaster |
| 16:49.32 | fil | ah -- looking around some recent forum posts, it looked like it might be the case that some parallel repos were being set up, with less insurmountable barriers to entry -- did I get that wrong, or was that done, but too late for all the potential developers who've already wandered off to pastures new? |
| 16:50.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | fil: the problem are not the repos but the autobuilder |
| 16:50.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that one been botked since I think november |
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| 16:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1293858#post1293858 |
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| 16:55.35 | fil | oh, ok -- so all packages are rebuilt from source, except when the autobuilder is broken? -- oops |
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| 17:03.35 | fil | ah, I see -- there are a load of things that apt-get update would like to install, but HAM doesn't mention -- what's the canonical way of keeping up to date these days then? (is there anywhere that answers these dumb questions that I should be reading instead?) |
| 17:04.00 | kerio | packages are /built/ from source |
| 17:04.23 | fil | what I'm after is something like Debian's testing, or if that's not available Debian's unstable |
| 17:05.30 | fil | kerio: so people just upload new source packages and let the autobuilder build them for the first time? (I was rather expecting people to do a local build before upload) |
| 17:05.39 | kerio | well obviously they test them locally |
| 17:05.55 | divVerent | anyone have existing scripts-settings for emulating mittle and right mouse button (e.g. for X11 forwarding use)? |
| 17:05.57 | kerio | but the integrity of the binaries is only ensured by the fact that maemo.org does the building and keeps the source |
| 17:06.11 | divVerent | like, does X11 actually provide a nice way to do ctrl-click -> right mouse, or the like? |
| 17:06.43 | divVerent | I noticed that dbus-scripts can catch the camera button, which combined with xmodmap commands would give me ONE extra button. but I need two, and can't get dbus-scripts to work with proximityd as second button... |
| 17:07.07 | fil | kerio: hence "rebuilt" ;-) |
| 17:08.31 | divVerent | I see that xbindkeys can be abused to support ctrl-click... together with xvkbd |
| 17:08.52 | kerio | divVerent: search the wiki for vi's awesome keyboard or something silly like that |
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| 17:09.05 | kerio | ~factsearch vi |
| 17:09.09 | kerio | hm |
| 17:09.11 | kerio | ~factinfo vi |
| 17:09.11 | infobot | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) |
| 17:09.11 | infobot | vi -- last modified at Mon Feb 16 23:23:30 2004 by George-!~Test@adsl-167-107.freeuk.com; it has been requested 9 times, last by Deaod at Thu Jan 24 09:40:35 2013; it has been locked by vi. |
| 17:09.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how do i search factoids? |
| 17:09.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys kerio |
| 17:09.55 | kerio | ~listkeys vi |
| 17:10.04 | kerio | hm |
| 17:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues kerio |
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| 17:10.51 | divVerent | https://github.com/vahit/N900-HKlayout I did find this, but it does not emulate mouse |
| 17:10.58 | kerio | ~listvalues vi |
| 17:11.07 | kerio | hm |
| 17:11.12 | kerio | ~listvalues vi keyboard |
| 17:11.18 | kerio | ~listvalues vi.*keyboard |
| 17:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys #maemo |
| 17:12.02 | divVerent | hm... actually, I wonder if xbindkeys can be abused so that it catches key events while STILL keeping x11 process them |
| 17:12.08 | divVerent | so I could catch ctrl press AND release |
| 17:12.11 | divVerent | and do xmodmap commands on them |
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| 17:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listauth vi |
| 17:12.34 | infobot | factoid author list by 'vi' returned no results. |
| 17:12.41 | divVerent | also, assuming I do use xbindkeys - how to start it automatically? |
| 17:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listauth vi_ |
| 17:13.09 | infobot | factoid author list by 'vi_' returned no results. |
| 17:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listauth vi__ |
| 17:13.13 | infobot | factoid author list by 'vi__' returned no results. |
| 17:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listauth vi___ |
| 17:13.17 | infobot | factoid author list by 'vi___' returned no results. |
| 17:13.17 | kerio | hahahahah |
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| 17:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/ff020e16c7 |
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| 17:29.42 | fil | I note that the signing key for the nokia repos have expired -- what's one supposed to do about that? |
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| 17:32.01 | divVerent | odd... even "xmodmap -e 'pointer = 3 2 1'" does not work on N900... why? |
| 17:32.07 | divVerent | touch still sends left mouse |
| 17:32.20 | divVerent | at least to xev |
| 17:35.30 | kerio | fil: pester nokia support, as a normal user, without any mention of maemo.org or #maemo or HiFo |
| 17:36.29 | fil | kerio: are we really expecting anyone at Nokia to give a shit at this point? |
| 17:37.08 | kerio | fil: there's one nokia-ext dude who kinda cares a bit |
| 17:39.38 | fil | so is everyone else simply ignoring the warning, or is there a repo that's been signed by the community that obsoletes the nokia stuff? |
| 17:40.46 | fil | also notes that hildon-initscripts is claiming to be unsigned, after I commented out the nokia repos |
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| 17:42.10 | fil | that's from http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools |
| 17:42.31 | kerio | fil: just ignore the warning |
| 17:42.44 | kerio | if the download comes from https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ it's probably as trustworthy as elop |
| 17:42.49 | kerio | ...wait, shit |
| 17:43.06 | fil | well, quite :-) |
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| 19:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] we've switched over DNS, everything except MX fine. When those changes will propagate to your personal NS you'll access new server. Right now that one is down for syncing. We hope to bring it up again a few hours later |
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| 20:53.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] *new* is basically up and productive! |
| 20:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 20:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | kudos to a brilliant tech team, particularly warfare, xes, jacekowski |
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| 21:00.22 | sixwheeledbeast | \o/ |
| 21:05.18 | M4rtinK | Thanks to all involved ! :D |
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| 21:06.08 | M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: I'm going to test if autobuilder actually works right away. :) |
| 21:06.54 | M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: at least the cauldron list (or it's archive ?) seems to be still stuck: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/ |
| 21:08.16 | sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK: scp/dput/web assistant? |
| 21:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're still about to crank up builder stuff etc |
| 21:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | cronjobs, whatnot else |
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| 21:08.53 | M4rtinK | sixwheeledbeast: probably will try all 3 in sequence :) |
| 21:09.22 | M4rtinK | I've actually submitted a package through the web interface 3 minutes ago :) |
| 21:09.51 | sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK: k may have another go later, let me know how it goes :) |
| 21:09.54 | M4rtinK | BTW, everything seems crazy fast so far :) |
| 21:11.17 | sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK: I have submitted one via web iface couple days ago but no email back |
| 21:11.28 | M4rtinK | interesting: http://maemo.org/packages/view/rockbox-doc/ <- 2013-03-14 18:19 UTC |
| 21:11.40 | sixwheeledbeast | that as dput |
| 21:11.47 | sixwheeledbeast | s/as/was/ |
| 21:12.24 | M4rtinK | also looks like on http://maemo.org/packages "Latest packages" is up to date but "Latest builds" is outdated |
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| 21:12.55 | M4rtinK | Isn't DPUT basically just an overlay over SSH ? |
| 21:15.21 | jacekowski | it is |
| 21:15.33 | sixwheeledbeast | Yes. A while back web assist was broken due to new python on server. jaceowski has fixed autobuilder recently. |
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| 21:18.54 | jacekowski | M4rtinK: where did you get that rockbox? |
| 21:19.03 | jacekowski | hmm |
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| 21:21.59 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: "Latest packages" on http://maemo.org/packages |
| 21:22.46 | jacekowski | that's latest imports |
| 21:22.51 | Macer | http://www.archive.org/stream/Pi_to_100000000_places/pi.txt |
| 21:22.58 | Macer | 3/14 for pi day |
| 21:23.05 | Macer | someone should be shot in the face for that |
| 21:23.50 | jacekowski | i don't see your problem |
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| 21:25.15 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: I'll take your word for it, cba waiting for the page to open |
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| 21:30.36 | Macer | heh... well.. it's a big number |
| 21:30.48 | Macer | http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130314/DA50T1382.html |
| 21:30.52 | Macer | scientists... lying again |
| 21:31.03 | Macer | because they need more money for their worthless machine |
| 21:32.37 | M4rtinK | 136 MB :) |
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| 21:41.19 | M4rtinK | still no luck with SCP |
| 21:41.34 | M4rtinK | "Permission denied (publickey)" |
| 21:42.49 | sixwheeledbeast | mmm |
| 21:43.31 | M4rtinK | so I've just updated the key |
| 21:43.44 | M4rtinK | wit the same key, just in case :) |
| 21:50.45 | M4rtinK | and as modRana has not yet been updated in the repository, the web uploaded package also got lost |
| 21:51.30 | M4rtinK | lets hope it works tomorrow :) |
| 21:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | guys, could you wait a day or so, before you try to hammer the new server? |
| 21:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're still busy starting up stuff |
| 21:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! |
| 21:59.26 | sixwheeledbeast | No problem, was gonna wait for successful packages coming through, anyway. |
| 22:01.12 | M4rtinK | sure :) |
| 22:01.32 | M4rtinK | just kinda excited stuff is coming together :) |
| 22:04.20 | sixwheeledbeast | yeah, it's been a while, be nice to get back to normal. |
| 22:05.07 | M4rtinK | ant the big + of the community actually being able to fix stuff that breaks |
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| 22:35.44 | kerio | thanks to warfare, xes, jacekowski |
| 22:37.14 | freemangordon | kerio: you forgot doc ;) |
| 22:37.29 | kerio | maybe i didn't ;) |
| 22:37.40 | freemangordon | ?!? |
| 22:37.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: <3 |
| 22:37.59 | kerio | thank you for maemo |
| 22:38.11 | kerio | .org |
| 22:38.21 | kerio | at this point, i feel that we kinda do owe it to him |
| 22:38.43 | kerio | communities die, without infrastructure |
| 22:39.21 | kerio | so... yeah, thanks |
| 22:39.23 | kerio | and fuck elop |
| 22:39.37 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 22:39.39 | freemangordon | :D |
| 22:41.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw if you wonder, we're currently cleanign up midgard mysql mess, a saunting task! disabled indexes, corrupted tables, you have no idea |
| 22:41.51 | M4rtinK | yuck |
| 22:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course we see same shite that caused loads of >300 (threehundred) on nemein xengrid *old* db VM in the last weeks |
| 22:42.33 | kerio | :( |
| 22:42.48 | kerio | what does the db hold? |
| 22:42.54 | kerio | all maemo.org things? |
| 22:43.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/graph_all_periods.php?c=maemo&h=db&v=8.40&m=load_fifteen&r=hour&z=default&jr=&js=&st=1363300971&vl=%20&ti=Fifteen%20Minute%20Load%20Average&z=large |
| 22:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, except tmo |
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| 22:45.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and pages like this one http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/desktop/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=2 create queries like http://privatepaste.com/d4f3541a99 |
| 22:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | now let somebody do a wget on www.maemo.org --level=100 |
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| 22:56.24 | M4rtinK | that query looks seriously insane |
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| 23:26.22 | RST38h | moos |
| 23:26.56 | sixwheeledbeast | moos back at RST38h |
| 23:27.00 | kerio | µ |
| 23:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: yep |
| 23:28.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: now figure such queries get triggered like 5 or 10 similar ones concurrently, all the time |
| 23:28.25 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 23:29.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | which basically is what we've seen (and still do) on mysql list queries |
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