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| 02:08.47 | Estel_ | thanks, jacekowski |
| 02:09.02 | Estel_ | hey, i just saw some thread "intros" made by some funny guy that Imve never heard about |
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| 02:09.24 | Estel_ | acclaiming that he was appointed to take position in BoD, instead of elections |
| 02:09.42 | Estel_ | I would take it a joke, but knowing how miracolously maemo is managed, it's probably true, yep? |
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| 02:10.06 | Estel_ | why won't we outright declare monarchy and buy, IDK, sealand? (lmgtfo: sealand) |
| 02:10.49 | Estel_ | just teasing a little - I found that thread extremely amusing to read, even if came there by accident ("intros" suggest, that he wanted to know about managing intro videos for N900...) |
| 02:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, the thread title is poorly chosen, and his introduction is missing even his clear full name |
| 02:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, he got appointed by sd69, as clearly is written in this thread |
| 02:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a followup to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328124#post1328124 |
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| 02:33.56 | thedead1440 | I think the thread title should be "A personal introduction by JimJag" |
| 02:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | about declaring monarchy, you're somewhat behind of most recent events. We basically already had (or still have?) that, and council and a few others are fighting it ( :-P tongue in cheek) |
| 02:34.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 02:34.19 | thedead1440 | ok will change it now |
| 02:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 02:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe use his full name instead |
| 02:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | jagielski? |
| 02:34.48 | thedead1440 | what's his full name |
| 02:34.49 | thedead1440 | oh |
| 02:35.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | please check |
| 02:35.04 | thedead1440 | Jim Jagielski |
| 02:35.29 | thedead1440 | done ;) |
| 02:35.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | "A personal introduction by Jim Jagielscy [appointed HiFo BoD member]" |
| 02:36.51 | thedead1440 | " > A personal introduction by Jimjag (Jim Jagielski) " |
| 02:37.07 | thedead1440 | you want the HiFo part? seems a bit biased, no? |
| 02:37.25 | thedead1440 | s/biased/sarcastic/ |
| 02:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's not meant sarcastic |
| 02:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | change it to "[Hildon Foundation] A personal introduction by Jimjag (Jim Jagielski) " if you think that's better |
| 02:44.07 | thedead1440 | yeah that's better |
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| 03:11.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | *may* you also edit his post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328124#post1328124 to point to that new thread? Or is this sth a mod shouldn't do on tmo? |
| 03:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | nm, I simply added a post with a note |
| 03:14.27 | thedead1440 | yeah i would have edited it if people seem unsure but since you've posted its enough ;) |
| 03:15.07 | thedead1440 | i do edit posts; like certain threads whereby OP doesn't link to solution or duplicate posts etc... basically all harmless stuff :D |
| 03:16.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you receive any notifications from TMO anymore? |
| 03:16.50 | thedead1440 | hmm i'm not subscribed to many threads actually |
| 03:17.03 | thedead1440 | i'm active enough to notice posts without a notification :D |
| 03:17.48 | thedead1440 | could you delete your post and post it again? |
| 03:17.52 | thedead1440 | i've subscribed to that thread |
| 03:18.02 | thedead1440 | so we can find out now |
| 03:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll rather post a new one and delete it |
| 03:18.14 | thedead1440 | ok |
| 03:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, you delete it |
| 03:21.15 | thedead1440 | no notification |
| 03:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much |
| 03:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 03:22.10 | thedead1440 | after deleting your post it redirected me to: http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1328691 |
| 03:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, and that's a moot source for any smtp sendmail |
| 03:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally nobody will accept mail from that server, for now |
| 03:23.43 | thedead1440 | yeah |
| 03:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so |
| 03:24.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] tmo notification mail is broken. Sorry for the inconvenience |
| 03:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually tmo admin will set up a banner to let all users of tmo know about the fact, and explain why this issue arised and when it's supposed to be fixed |
| 03:25.39 | thedead1440 | yeah in migration #2? |
| 03:26.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 03:26.20 | thedead1440 | oh you posted here |
| 03:26.28 | thedead1440 | sorry was confused a bit |
| 03:27.35 | thedead1440 | i was thinking of making migration #2 thread sticky and removing the service downtime thread from sticky |
| 03:27.45 | thedead1440 | that way it would be easier to follow on-goings |
| 03:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] similar isses are likely to occur with other maemo.org services during migration#2, which has its top at Thursday 1700UTC when Nokia is supposed to switch the DNS pointers to new infra |
| 03:28.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: sounds fair |
| 03:29.17 | thedead1440 | you do changes to the migration #2 thread title to make it clearer and update the OP with current status; i'll change the sticky |
| 03:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | k, will look into it |
| 03:30.03 | thedead1440 | your thread is now first thread in General so make it as clear as possible |
| 03:30.47 | thedead1440 | i'm removing the fundraiser thread from sticky too since its pretty moot |
| 03:34.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 03:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | has a last look at ganglia, shudders, burps, and heads out, waving |
| 03:36.07 | thedead1440 | good night Doc ;) |
| 03:36.59 | thedead1440 | hmm www having excessive load |
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| 03:55.26 | jpinx | is there a way to clone one n900 to another ? |
| 03:55.35 | bef0rd | backupmenu sounds like an option |
| 03:56.03 | jpinx | ~backupmenu |
| 03:56.04 | infobot | i guess backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 |
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| 07:11.44 | Estel_ | Does anyone know how to get console map (.map) out of X keyboard map file (like our nokia_vdnr/rx-51) |
| 07:11.46 | Estel_ | ? |
| 07:12.07 | Estel_ | I would like to duplicate my hardware keyboard map into recovery shell/similar console mappings |
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| 08:51.25 | divVerent | 21:31:26 Estel_ | divVerent, qhy you constantly like to make your life harder?:P |
| 08:51.27 | divVerent | 21:32:21 Estel_ | either do as DocScrutinizer05 suggested with vanilla folders and overmounting, or do like me with dead symlinks (which btw, works for most .config things too). |
| 08:51.39 | divVerent | Estel_: both ways ARE making the life very hard |
| 08:51.52 | divVerent | 21:33:26 kerio | because things will get error messages |
| 08:51.54 | divVerent | 21:33:34 kerio | and you *really* can't open a dead link, afaik |
| 08:51.56 | divVerent | 21:34:07 Estel_ | thats why I use it, in practice,. But if someone want plausible deniability more, vanilla overmount files are the way to go |
| 08:51.58 | divVerent | doesn't work for the browser |
| 08:52.07 | divVerent | it silently replaced a dead symlink ~/.bookmarks by a new file |
| 08:52.28 | kerio | tablet-browser-ui is a piece of crap, yes |
| 08:52.34 | divVerent | and overmount means having to kill all those processes |
| 08:52.39 | divVerent | which is EXACTLY what I call a mess |
| 08:53.22 | divVerent | Estel_: and what is this about text2screen getting possibly removed? |
| 08:53.33 | divVerent | what happens to bootmenu/backupmenu then? |
| 08:56.14 | divVerent | Estel_: but assuming I have to restart stuf... that really sucks... can't I _somehow_ show a prompt on X11 first, and only THEN start up all the stuff? |
| 09:01.18 | divVerent | Estel_: also, can you maybe share your current script, regarding the list of all that needs killing/restarting? |
| 09:01.31 | divVerent | although I still REALLY don't like the approach, given it's quite easy to go wrong |
| 09:01.49 | divVerent | already noticed that if you kill browserd too often, the device reboots |
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| 09:25.30 | Hurrian | divVerent: Meet the watchdog. |
| 09:27.08 | divVerent | I just wonder why the WEB browser is seen as THAT critical |
| 09:27.15 | divVerent | if it were the telephone subsystem, I would understand |
| 09:27.23 | divVerent | but why would I even care if MicroB runs when I want to use e.g. Opera? |
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| 09:51.46 | kerio | divVerent: browserd also powers Conversations |
| 09:52.03 | kerio | aka rtcom-messaging-ui |
| 09:53.06 | jaska | which is an awful way :D |
| 09:53.18 | jaska | cant get rid of it to save ram |
| 09:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: ((it silently replaced a dead symlink ~/.bookmarks by a new file)) toldya |
| 09:54.24 | jaska | chown it to root, perhaps chattr +i? :) |
| 09:55.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((if you kill browserd too often, the device reboots)) toldya |
| 09:55.17 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: I know, but we still have no SOLUTION... this overmounting stuff has the very same issue (browser keeping to use the previous files) |
| 09:55.20 | divVerent | yes, that too |
| 09:57.00 | divVerent | anyone know how to use flasher -b to override boot parameters? |
| 09:57.07 | divVerent | I tried and failed, don't know why |
| 09:57.13 | divVerent | it simply booted up with the original /proc/cmdline |
| 09:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think that never worked |
| 09:58.02 | divVerent | that means acting at preinit level is also ruled out for a WORKING encryption setup |
| 09:58.12 | divVerent | because replacing the preinit file is bad because that gets lost on upgrades |
| 09:58.21 | divVerent | (or patching it) |
| 09:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | bootmenu hook is your best option |
| 09:58.48 | divVerent | but then I depend on bootmenu... but yes |
| 09:58.52 | divVerent | that is what I am currently trying |
| 09:58.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | but you'll need to edit some initscripts anyway |
| 09:59.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe not |
| 09:59.22 | divVerent | what I basically am trying now: |
| 09:59.25 | divVerent | password prompt at bootup |
| 09:59.32 | divVerent | provides /home/user first monted to /.home.user |
| 09:59.43 | divVerent | on /home, user shall be a symlink to /.home.user |
| 09:59.49 | divVerent | and basically, existing init scripts SHOULD be ahppy then |
| 09:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the mount-over & fuser -k approach might work without any edits to init |
| 10:00.21 | divVerent | that is the other approach I am trying to follow... that is the preferred method when using encfs, of course |
| 10:00.52 | divVerent | but fuser -k only kills processes that currently have files open - not such that have read files, and keep their contents in memory |
| 10:01.23 | divVerent | also, a general fuser -k -m /home is KINDA unwise ;) |
| 10:01.42 | divVerent | it probably is equivalent to kill -- -1 as user... actually, wonder what happens if I do THAT |
| 10:02.18 | divVerent | in busybox, kill -15 -1 |
| 10:02.34 | divVerent | and no, the init system does NOT handle this well |
| 10:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would any app do open() read() close() <use local buffer> open() write() close()? |
| 10:02.42 | divVerent | I had hoped upstart would then respawn all that's necessary ;) |
| 10:03.01 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: would be totally sensible for email |
| 10:03.06 | divVerent | first read acccount info |
| 10:03.08 | divVerent | close config file |
| 10:03.12 | divVerent | then use what you read all the time |
| 10:03.18 | divVerent | and when user changes settings, open again, write, close |
| 10:03.34 | divVerent | this is probably the usual way to do things with text files |
| 10:03.39 | divVerent | while database files normally are kept open |
| 10:03.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | then kill -9 |
| 10:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | instead of kill |
| 10:04.08 | divVerent | no, I am not worried about the writing part ;) |
| 10:04.20 | divVerent | but that the process may not even be identified by fuser -k in the first place |
| 10:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah I see, you're worried you miss processes to kill |
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| 10:04.36 | divVerent | stupid example: browser having file:///home/user/secret/info.txt open |
| 10:04.42 | divVerent | the file is closed as soon as it's rendered |
| 10:04.58 | divVerent | so overmount/fuser -k -m won't get the browser in this case (if the secret/ dir is all I worry about) |
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| 10:05.13 | divVerent | but the user would in this case have to manually refresh the browser |
| 10:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 10:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll find out about that possibly 1 or 2 programs and add it to the list of processes to kill "manually" |
| 10:06.06 | divVerent | yes |
| 10:07.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | xchat for example is known to never write back config edits unless properly terminated from GUI |
| 10:07.34 | divVerent | but really too bad that kill -15 -1 does not do what it should ;) |
| 10:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even gentle device shutdown will make it write back edits |
| 10:07.46 | divVerent | on most desktop linux, killing ALL processes you own just brings you back to the login screen |
| 10:08.35 | divVerent | and even killing all on the X-owned tty would happily restart the login session [but then you lose text mode...] |
| 10:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders if ACT_DEAD could do something useful for divVerent |
| 10:09.38 | divVerent | hehe, I found this one too... but have not yet seen the way to get OUT of that mode ;) |
| 10:09.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 10:09.49 | divVerent | anyway, suppose I want to overmount whole /home/user... wonder how to best find out what I need to kill then |
| 10:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | an alarmd event should do the trick |
| 10:10.07 | divVerent | fixing MyDocs is trivial, so let's ignore that |
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| 10:10.55 | divVerent | (for MyDocs, either umount/mount, or two levels of mount --bind would do the trick) |
| 10:10.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | lsof is a first good approach |
| 10:11.04 | divVerent | yes, lsof can do a bit more than fuser |
| 10:11.27 | divVerent | fuser -m is no option because /home/user is not a file system :P |
| 10:11.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we also got inotify |
| 10:12.18 | divVerent | wonder if doing mount --rbind /home/user /home/user done "early enough" would fix fuser -m |
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| 10:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | inotifywatch/inotifywait could help you create a list of all processes ever touching some files you want to know about |
| 10:14.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | would also catch those that do open() read() close() |
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| 10:16.49 | divVerent | wonder if there is a more clever way than lsof +D |
| 10:17.00 | divVerent | inotify... works if I start it early enough |
| 10:19.09 | divVerent | kill `lsof +D /home/user -t` |
| 10:19.13 | divVerent | is still a bad idea |
| 10:19.16 | divVerent | (reboots) |
| 10:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, since it most likely kills hildon-* |
| 10:22.15 | divVerent | in a way that is what I want/need to do |
| 10:22.20 | divVerent | as it DOES use info from the homedir |
| 10:22.21 | kerio | mounting /home, running shit, and remounting /home is a silly idea |
| 10:22.40 | divVerent | kerio: right... I am basically pursusing two separate paths, to see which one will work better |
| 10:22.53 | divVerent | 1. separate dmcrypt partition; /home/user then gets entirely used from that |
| 10:23.02 | divVerent | 2. encfs at runtime, reinitializing user processes |
| 10:23.26 | divVerent | "problem" of 1. is that it is obviously not deniable, whatever you do |
| 10:23.31 | divVerent | as you WILL get a password prompt at boot |
| 10:23.39 | kerio | no you won't |
| 10:23.51 | divVerent | how to ask for the key then? |
| 10:23.54 | kerio | uboot that needs a held key combination |
| 10:24.03 | divVerent | ah, tricks like that |
| 10:24.05 | kerio | and the whole system on uSD |
| 10:24.10 | divVerent | or luks setup timeout, and no screen output ;) |
| 10:24.32 | kerio | for deniablity you also need a real, stock system behind |
| 10:24.39 | divVerent | right |
| 10:24.43 | divVerent | and I don't need that |
| 10:24.48 | divVerent | where I live, encryption is (still) legal |
| 10:24.55 | divVerent | (and giving out the key is not required) |
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| 11:14.54 | divVerent | hm... what am I doing wrong when my alternate linuxrc script isn't started at all by bootmenu? |
| 11:15.22 | divVerent | I am pretty sure it is not being started at all, as I have text2screen stuff at the top |
| 11:16.08 | divVerent | and modprobe fbcon next :P |
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| 12:16.53 | divVerent | hm... it tries to find /mnt/initfs/$LINUXRC... that of course won't work |
| 12:17.13 | divVerent | (debugging it now by having added "modprobe fbcon" to preinit) |
| 12:21.42 | kerio | no it doesn't, does it? |
| 12:21.50 | kerio | there's no /mnt/initfs in stock maemo |
| 12:21.53 | divVerent | exactly |
| 12:22.07 | divVerent | because there is by default no pivot_root switch |
| 12:22.16 | divVerent | but the rootfs is what the kernel sees at initialization |
| 12:22.24 | kerio | yep |
| 12:22.29 | kerio | in /sbin/preinit |
| 12:22.31 | divVerent | at least on the N900, I do see the scripts have support for other setups |
| 12:22.38 | kerio | hardly |
| 12:22.54 | kerio | also, that should be the bootloader's job |
| 12:22.58 | kerio | what you see is bit rot |
| 12:23.01 | divVerent | SHOULD ;) |
| 12:30.58 | divVerent | ok, found ONE possible solution... apparently, all the items need to have the same ID |
| 12:31.11 | divVerent | namely, "nand" |
| 12:34.44 | kerio | oh well, at least someone is going to test the unused cruft in preinit |
| 12:34.53 | divVerent | hehe |
| 12:42.18 | madduck | where can I get the 20.2010.36-2 Vanilla image for the N900? The nokia.com server is broken… |
| 12:42.22 | madduck | does anyone have them? |
| 12:43.11 | thedead1440 | ~skeiron |
| 12:43.11 | infobot | i guess skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 12:43.19 | thedead1440 | madduck: ^^^ |
| 12:43.28 | madduck | thedead1440: thanks! |
| 12:43.34 | madduck | this is preferable to some .ru domain ;) |
| 12:43.40 | thedead1440 | :D |
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| 12:45.30 | divVerent | HAHA, HERE [ -f ] is NO good idea ;) |
| 12:45.35 | madduck | i really hope this will get my n900 completely back to factory as there is so much stuff on it from the previous owner, I really don't want to deal with it. |
| 12:45.48 | divVerent | i.e. [ -f /dev/mmcblk0p4 ] just won't ever match ;) |
| 12:46.01 | divVerent | madduck: it will, and ONLY this will |
| 12:46.13 | divVerent | I had the same problem when I got my N900... I didn't even TRY if doing less would have achieved it too |
| 12:46.17 | divVerent | just reflashed both images |
| 12:46.32 | madduck | so emmc and then vanilla? |
| 12:46.40 | madduck | eh, emmc and then combined |
| 12:46.42 | divVerent | read the page, I already forgot the proper order |
| 12:46.49 | divVerent | and there then was some weird reboot trick you have to do as well |
| 12:46.54 | madduck | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin followed by RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin it seems |
| 12:46.58 | divVerent | it's all explained and it worked for me, but I cannot remember exactly |
| 12:47.23 | divVerent | also, if you do wrong, the device won't be bricked - you will just have to start over if I understand it right |
| 12:48.02 | divVerent | because the USB flasher mode (holding U key thing) acts before kernel is loaded |
| 12:48.12 | divVerent | BTW, do NOT do the boot loader reflash. You won't need it. |
| 12:48.28 | divVerent | that is the only part that CAN brick it ;) |
| 12:49.15 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 12:50.09 | divVerent | HAHA; my encryption prompt now SOMEWHAT works... need to fix keymap though |
| 12:50.15 | divVerent | or passwords can only use lowercase letters :P |
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| 12:52.02 | divVerent | now the only part that may require editing init scripts may be bind-mounting /.home.user to /home/user |
| 12:52.05 | madduck | what is hwid? what is the type label of the device? I cannot see anything on the back |
| 12:52.16 | divVerent | b elow the battery? |
| 12:52.24 | madduck | no 4 digit code there |
| 12:52.31 | madduck | 0434? |
| 12:52.35 | divVerent | where are you asked for it? |
| 12:52.40 | madduck | cold flash |
| 12:52.53 | kerio | why do you need to cold flash? |
| 12:52.57 | divVerent | don't cold flash |
| 12:53.08 | divVerent | 13:48:12 divVerent | BTW, do NOT do the boot loader reflash. You won't need it. |
| 12:53.10 | divVerent | 13:48:27 divVerent | that is the only part that CAN brick it ;) |
| 12:53.12 | divVerent | that's what I meant by this :P |
| 12:53.19 | madduck | aha |
| 12:53.28 | divVerent | no settings or user data are stored on the boot loader area |
| 12:53.32 | divVerent | so there is no need to overwrite it |
| 12:53.42 | madduck | well, i flashed the emmc and then the combined image, but the combined image didn't do any writing, just quit with exit code 0 after printing a lot |
| 12:54.13 | divVerent | then you did it wrong. Your device probably will fail booting now, which is ok. Maybe reboot and hold U again? |
| 12:54.16 | divVerent | then retry the other image? |
| 12:54.29 | madduck | http://slexy.org/raw/s29zd3b683 |
| 12:54.30 | divVerent | BTW, for rebooting, USB may not be plugged in |
| 12:54.45 | divVerent | that's all the output? |
| 12:54.54 | madduck | yes |
| 12:54.59 | madduck | i get a dialog to unlock, all messed up, and then am told there's a missing image |
| 12:55.05 | madduck | which image is missing? emmc or combined? |
| 12:55.17 | divVerent | reflash the combined now, I would say |
| 12:55.30 | divVerent | the EMMC upload worked, given the output |
| 12:55.59 | madduck | yeah, but same for combined flash |
| 12:56.01 | madduck | nothing is uploaded |
| 12:56.17 | madduck | maybe it detects that it's already uploaded? maybe i need to flash older stuff first, then try again with the latest? |
| 12:56.29 | divVerent | no, sure not |
| 12:56.31 | divVerent | it's not that clever |
| 12:56.54 | madduck | ah, now the combined flash works, magically |
| 12:57.01 | divVerent | just for reference, I had used these images: |
| 12:57.02 | madduck | let's see how far this gets me now… |
| 12:57.03 | divVerent | RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 12:57.05 | divVerent | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 12:57.24 | madduck | okay, i have a newer emmc but the same combined |
| 12:57.48 | divVerent | should make no difference anyway |
| 12:58.21 | madduck | there'll be some difference, albeit minute |
| 12:58.46 | divVerent | a difference the first software upgrade run should fix ;) |
| 12:59.08 | madduck | yay apt |
| 12:59.16 | madduck | alright, let's see… |
| 12:59.21 | madduck | booting now |
| 13:00.25 | madduck | gosh it's slow |
| 13:00.49 | madduck | the lock code is still the one I set, not 12345 |
| 13:01.32 | kerio | the lock code is in CAL |
| 13:01.42 | kerio | it's not flashed |
| 13:02.38 | madduck | okay, good. |
| 13:03.22 | madduck | yay, it seems vanilla now! |
| 13:03.46 | madduck | now i need to find a way to import contacts via caldav, set up jabber, email, and find a way to monitor data usage |
| 13:03.49 | madduck | (suggestions welcome) |
| 13:04.20 | madduck | carddav even ;) |
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| 13:07.27 | jargon | is extras-devel still offline? i heard it's been back up for a while now, but i keep getting error "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/freemantle/free/f/frontcamera/frontcamera_1.0.0-2_armel.deb: Hash Sum mismatch" what gives? |
| 13:10.37 | jargon | it's even 404ing in the browser |
| 13:11.16 | r00t^home | something about an nfs bug corrupting files... there's a mirror that works |
| 13:11.26 | r00t^home | (as nobody who knows better answered) |
| 13:11.56 | r00t^home | ~skeiron |
| 13:11.56 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
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| 13:30.43 | jargon | r00t^home: thanks |
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| 13:31.47 | jargon | doesn't contain frontcamera but at least it seems to be working |
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| 13:43.04 | cityLights | I must admit that opening my calender in the desktop as sql is a joy to someone not dealing with SQL too frequent |
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| 14:03.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 14:03.46 | infobot | ~pong |
| 14:04.35 | cityLights | by the way, as I see so many ppl here, did anyone manage to get an event service? |
| 14:04.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack |
| 14:04.37 | infobot | thanks, DocScrutinizer51 |
| 14:04.57 | cityLights | such that colelcts all sort of inputs as, gps, wifi connection etc |
| 14:05.14 | cityLights | then you can issue an action by the events collection... |
| 14:05.31 | divVerent | what launches /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh? |
| 14:05.54 | Pali | divVerent, ke-recv |
| 14:08.13 | divVerent | I am lookign for the logic how it finds the device name to use for MyDocs |
| 14:08.24 | divVerent | because, it now seems to detect /dev/dm-0 instead of mmcblk0p1 |
| 14:09.19 | Pali | divVerent, it is from HAL |
| 14:09.26 | Pali | or from /etc/fstab |
| 14:09.31 | divVerent | sure not from fstab |
| 14:09.43 | divVerent | hal, how to check |
| 14:09.48 | Pali | ke-recv use HAL |
| 14:09.52 | Pali | $ lshal |
| 14:09.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | cityLights: there's dwimd and profile manager |
| 14:10.34 | divVerent | in HAL I only see the right device |
| 14:11.08 | divVerent | the other does not have MyDocs in its info |
| 14:11.16 | divVerent | my question is rather, where is the decision made which device to use |
| 14:11.20 | divVerent | the data is pulled from HAL, but then? |
| 14:13.16 | Pali | ke-recv listening for HAL changes, then it read device from /dev/, read filesytem and mount it. mmc device is mounted to /media/mmc*, usb disks are mounted to /media/usb/* |
| 14:13.56 | divVerent | but what becomes /home/user/MyDocs then? |
| 14:15.48 | Pali | maemo system has hardcoded mmcblk<something> for MyDocs |
| 14:15.53 | divVerent | except it does not |
| 14:15.59 | divVerent | I _want_ it to use mmcblk0p1 |
| 14:16.03 | divVerent | but for some reason it now uses /dev/dm-0 |
| 14:16.10 | divVerent | when I changed preinit to open a crypto device |
| 14:16.11 | Pali | what is dm-0 ?? |
| 14:16.15 | divVerent | device mapper stuff |
| 14:16.23 | Pali | did you installed 3rd app? |
| 14:16.27 | divVerent | cryptsetup |
| 14:16.29 | divVerent | and my own scripting |
| 14:16.30 | Pali | did you changed something? |
| 14:16.33 | divVerent | so I want a way to fix it |
| 14:16.36 | divVerent | of course I did |
| 14:16.40 | Pali | maybe that 3rd app messing it |
| 14:16.42 | divVerent | so I want to find out how to fix this ke-recv part |
| 14:16.50 | divVerent | sure, by creating the dm-0 device |
| 14:17.00 | divVerent | so I want to find out how to make ke-recv use the right device EVEN if dm-0 exists |
| 14:17.04 | divVerent | because I cannot avoid dm-0 existing |
| 14:17.06 | Pali | divVerent, do you have cssu? |
| 14:17.08 | divVerent | yes |
| 14:17.46 | Pali | you can use blacklist script: /etc/default/osso-mmc-blacklist.sh |
| 14:17.56 | divVerent | that may be an idea |
| 14:18.30 | divVerent | hm... so it all depends on mmc_host.slot_name |
| 14:18.33 | Pali | in $PDEV is full path to device in /dev |
| 14:18.34 | divVerent | (now having ke-recv sources open) |
| 14:18.37 | divVerent | THAT one I cannot change... |
| 14:18.42 | Pali | in $MP is mount point |
| 14:19.04 | divVerent | the device mapper device apparently inherits it from its base device |
| 14:19.07 | Pali | slot_name is exported from kernel |
| 14:20.37 | divVerent | and what prevents it from also mounting the OTHER mmc devices? |
| 14:20.45 | divVerent | like the root partition |
| 14:22.00 | Pali | in /etc/default/osso-mmc-blacklist.sh you can check if $PDEV is /dev/dm-0 and then exit |
| 14:22.06 | divVerent | yes, I know |
| 14:22.17 | divVerent | but I want to see if there is a better way, as someone may already have put a blacklist there |
| 14:23.00 | Pali | divVerent, I'm patching ke-recv and also rcS-late which generate /etc/fstab |
| 14:23.15 | Pali | I'm adding support for real /etc/fstab which will not be overwritten |
| 14:23.29 | Pali | so this can fix your problem |
| 14:23.50 | Pali | but it is not finished & tested yet |
| 14:25.28 | divVerent | nice |
| 14:32.47 | divVerent | then using the blacklist for now is good enough |
| 14:33.45 | divVerent | real fstab suppoort would indeed be good |
| 14:34.03 | divVerent | /dev/mapper/.home.user |
| 14:34.04 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:34.06 | divVerent | I have now this mounted... |
| 14:34.16 | divVerent | and eventually, I want to mount this over /home/user |
| 14:34.22 | divVerent | for which I currently WILL have to patch rcS-late |
| 14:36.09 | divVerent | to blacklist a device, what is the blacklist script supposed to do? |
| 14:36.12 | divVerent | exit 0? or exit 1? |
| 14:36.46 | divVerent | exit 0, I suppose |
| 14:38.14 | divVerent | at least that's what the comment in the calling script says ;) |
| 14:40.15 | Pali | divVerent, that script is loaded by "source" command |
| 14:40.42 | Pali | so it does not depends on exit value |
| 14:42.21 | divVerent | it has to exit for the blacklisting to succeed |
| 14:42.27 | divVerent | which also exits the calling script then |
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| 14:44.52 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:44.54 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:44.57 | divVerent | let's see if THAT will work |
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| 14:45.44 | divVerent | fsck is a bit unhappy that this early at bootup, clock isn't set yet :P |
| 14:49.13 | divVerent | ok, did a small edit on hildon desktop... rebooted without crypto disk mounted |
| 14:49.37 | divVerent | widget is gone, great |
| 14:49.38 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:51.33 | divVerent | now rebooted with crypto disk active again... and it is there again |
| 14:51.51 | divVerent | actually... apparently I didn't just implement encrypted homedir... but switchable user accounts ;) |
| 14:52.01 | divVerent | in boot menu, if I boot unencrypted, I can get a totally different environment |
| 14:53.17 | divVerent | only catch, MyDocs is no longer mounted... argh |
| 14:55.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | (account switching) which been the whole purpose |
| 14:56.12 | divVerent | if you want some sort of deniability, yes |
| 14:57.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | mounting mydocs is simple |
| 14:57.31 | divVerent | I know |
| 14:57.38 | divVerent | but I want to find out why it no longer works automatically |
| 14:57.50 | divVerent | I only blacklisted /dev/dm-* and /dev/mapper/* |
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| 14:58.12 | divVerent | ITEM_NAME="IBM OS/2 Warp 5 Mobile" |
| 14:58.18 | divVerent | wonder if THAT is still "plausible" ;) |
| 14:58.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh blacklist? my little hackl? |
| 14:58.37 | divVerent | yes, ebcause for some reason with a dm-crypt device opened at boot |
| 14:58.52 | divVerent | the ke-recv thing tries to mount /dev/dm-0 and not /dev/mmcblk0p1 as MyDocs |
| 14:59.07 | divVerent | so I tried blacklisting /dev/dm-0 |
| 14:59.15 | divVerent | but now nothing gets mounted as MyDocs |
| 14:59.43 | divVerent | /dev/dm-0 is a device node created by device-mapper, I cannot REALLY avoid creating it |
| 14:59.57 | divVerent | even if I deleted it, it'd still appear in /proc/partitions and the like |
| 15:01.53 | divVerent | I also noticed another issue... something is wrong with the parted package |
| 15:01.57 | divVerent | it cannot resize FAT partitions |
| 15:02.05 | divVerent | I ended up rather doing it via backupmenu's usb mass storage support |
| 15:02.15 | divVerent | it claims to do it, "moving data", but nothing changed in the end |
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| 15:03.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
| 15:03.24 | divVerent | BTW, the blacklist does NOT work properly... "mass storage mode" of USB still is broken |
| 15:03.26 | divVerent | [22439.310163] sd 29:0:0:0: [sdc] 2094072 512-byte logical blocks: (1.07 GB/1022 MiB) |
| 15:03.33 | divVerent | that's not the VFAT partition, that's my encrypted drive |
| 15:03.39 | divVerent | i.e. still /dev/dm-0 |
| 15:03.55 | divVerent | but there MUST be ONE common place where it decides which device to use for MyDocs |
| 15:05.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, the blacklist script is just a suggestion |
| 15:06.05 | divVerent | yes, it was a good idea |
| 15:06.08 | divVerent | just didn't work out |
| 15:08.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | it been intentionally simplistic |
| 15:11.41 | divVerent | hal-set-property --udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_eba1177e_6662_4421_86ab_2dedb96b74bb --key block.storage_device --string "" |
| 15:11.44 | divVerent | after this command it "works" |
| 15:12.08 | divVerent | well, simplistic... where DOES it make the decision which device to use? |
| 15:12.15 | *** join/#maemo loganbr (~user@adsl-63-204-157-24.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 15:12.26 | divVerent | [22995.255798] sd 30:0:0:0: [sdc] 54536128 512-byte logical blocks: (27.9 GB/26.0 GiB) |
| 15:12.29 | divVerent | also right one for USB |
| 15:15.03 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:15.04 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:15.07 | divVerent | argh... ok, this tells it all |
| 15:15.23 | divVerent | it simply uses the first device HAL returns, and HAL has no specific ordering |
| 15:16.41 | divVerent | can the order in which HAL returns stuff be influenced somehow? |
| 15:17.46 | divVerent | faking block.storage_device and info.parent isn't REALLY a good idea to do |
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| 15:24.20 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.21 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.23 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.25 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.27 | divVerent | new version of the rcS-late hack :P |
| 15:25.12 | divVerent | if it weren't for this one hack, everything else could become a .deb... |
| 15:25.35 | divVerent | (ok, would then have to change it to use a container file, not a partition... but that'd be all then) |
| 15:36.10 | divVerent | where does Maemo store email account info? the "plain view" still can see the email accounts, but not use them |
| 15:36.39 | divVerent | WLAN passwords - same |
| 15:36.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | parts of it in gconf, I'd guess |
| 15:37.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN passwords: gconf |
| 15:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely |
| 15:38.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68063 |
| 15:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | YW |
| 15:38.41 | divVerent | hm... ok, so gconf stuff needs also to be put on the encrypted drive |
| 15:38.43 | divVerent | THAT gets ugly now |
| 15:38.56 | divVerent | especially as I won't be surprised if SOME gconf use takes place before rcS-late |
| 15:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 15:41.07 | divVerent | why else would there be a system wide gconf database? |
| 15:41.19 | divVerent | my plan would be to move it to /home/user and symlink it back |
| 15:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | because it's 1337 and feels almost like windows registry? |
| 15:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | the gconf files are spread all across the system, depending on where the schema belongs to |
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| 15:47.08 | sardini | hello, |
| 15:47.48 | divVerent | wonder what breaks on an empty gconf database |
| 15:49.02 | divVerent | AH, the default screen again... good |
| 15:49.58 | divVerent | and no more WLANs, no more email accounts |
| 15:51.15 | divVerent | I am not sure whether I like or not that both modes use the same unlock code |
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| 16:03.49 | divVerent | ok, I apparently lost my gconf database... itr SEEMS like /var/lib/gconf cannot be a symlink. Is there any way to recover? I did move the files back, but this didn't work out. |
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| 16:08.08 | divVerent | hm... oh wait, after reboot SOMETHING came back now... but email now always crashes with internal error |
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| 16:09.25 | divVerent | ugh, stupid me... apparently I did something as root I shouldn't have :P |
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| 16:12.45 | divVerent | ah, yet another reboot fixed THAT |
| 16:17.33 | r00t^home | divVerent: good stuff... i'm waiting for your writeup :D |
| 16:22.07 | divVerent | it LOOKS like it works somewhat stable now... the real test is now |
| 16:22.20 | divVerent | I again deleted the gconf DB in /var/lib and only kept the one in my encrypted home |
| 16:22.36 | divVerent | and use mount to overlay it, as a symlink has failed |
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| 16:25.10 | divVerent | again gconf DB lost... stupid gconf thing |
| 16:29.52 | divVerent | ARGH... on the backupmenu root console... how to type escape? |
| 16:31.05 | divVerent | it probably told me on that start screen, but now it's too late |
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| 16:40.48 | divVerent | I am quite annyoed that gconf database cannot be just moved elsewhere and symlinked... wonder what started gconfd then |
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| 17:00.38 | Estel_ | Pali, when I try loadkeys-maemo -m -b nokia-n900.map > nokia-n900.kmap |
| 17:00.57 | Estel_ | ...using files from your brz branch (nokia-n900.map as you provided there). |
| 17:01.21 | Estel_ | I get |
| 17:01.29 | Estel_ | nokia-n900.map:1: syntax error |
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| 17:02.26 | Estel_ | Pali, any ideas wtf or what I'm doing wrong? |
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| 17:03.26 | Estel_ | divVerent, uh (about browser overwriting dead symlinks |
| 17:04.13 | Estel_ | I appreciate your work into making it better ;) |
| 17:04.28 | divVerent | works now |
| 17:04.44 | divVerent | killall -HUP gconfd-2 did the trick |
| 17:04.44 | Estel_ | as for processes that need restart, I can't provide all of them as i never need to restart them - using dead symlinks and truecrypt, I never have to restart anything :P |
| 17:04.48 | Estel_ | heh |
| 17:04.59 | Estel_ | well, there is interesting approach you may try, though |
| 17:05.07 | divVerent | problem was, hal already startet gconfd |
| 17:05.08 | Estel_ | do you recall "five dots" animation at boot? |
| 17:05.32 | divVerent | yes |
| 17:05.55 | Estel_ | at first, it's just displays this video, then, later on boot, it's program that display dots undefinitely, until killed, started from Xsession.something |
| 17:06.26 | Estel_ | could be replaced with, lets say, truecrypt dialogue asking for password |
| 17:06.32 | Estel_ | keyfiles, etc |
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| 17:06.38 | divVerent | I see |
| 17:07.02 | Estel_ | if scripts calling dots are modified correctly, it would wait with everything till one closes that window, by mounting or cancelling |
| 17:07.38 | divVerent | pproblem is just lots of stuff dependikng on dbus, even hal |
| 17:07.52 | Estel_ | hm |
| 17:07.53 | divVerent | and dbusk holding all thhe passwords |
| 17:08.00 | divVerent | no, sorry |
| 17:08.02 | divVerent | no, sorry |
| 17:08.06 | divVerent | no, sorry |
| 17:08.10 | divVerent | gconf |
| 17:08.10 | Estel_ | np, even triple :P |
| 17:08.17 | divVerent | finallyy right key |
| 17:08.23 | Estel_ | :) |
| 17:08.55 | divVerent | anyway... sighup fixes gconf if used early enough |
| 17:09.55 | divVerent | but i stilll need two changed system files |
| 17:10.19 | sixwheeledbeast | Anybody using Fennec Thumb? |
| 17:10.36 | divVerent | rcS-late and ke-rcvr |
| 17:13.02 | Estel_ | god damn |
| 17:13.37 | Estel_ | trying to get console map out of my x mapping (on N900) |
| 17:14.07 | Estel_ | there is loadkeys that can export binary .kmap file, that can get loaded by loadkmap, for example during recovery shell... |
| 17:14.46 | Estel_ | which allow to use numbers and symbols on such shell, from N900 keyboard |
| 17:16.09 | Estel_ | but even trying to do with unmodified source file (nokia-n900.map), I get syntax error in source file? |
| 17:16.57 | Estel_ | either I'm doing it all wrong, or Pali screwed smth in that source file/or in kbd package from repos |
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| 17:58.25 | Estel_ | well, it seems that Pali screwed it, after all |
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| 17:59.16 | Estel_ | his nokia-n900.map source file is not in line with syntax that keymaps expect, so no doubt loadkeys shout about syntax error |
| 18:00.03 | Estel_ | is going to try rewriting .map file again, as first one, for complete keyboard, was made using syntax from Pali's source... fck! |
| 18:00.45 | Pali | Estel_, working source code is in Extras-devel package recovery-console |
| 18:00.50 | Estel_ | or I still don't get .map syntax, which is also possible, but I would mean I'll waste another 30 mins |
| 18:01.10 | Estel_ | oh, Pali :) I know that writing about screwing will summon you, where pings failed |
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| 18:01.26 | Pali | that was successfully compiled by scratchbox and autobuilder |
| 18:01.27 | Estel_ | thanks, but bzr branch was just plain wrong? |
| 18:01.46 | Pali | no idea, maybe I did not updated it |
| 18:01.57 | Estel_ | re those syntax errors from maemo's loadkeys-maemo, while trying to -b it into kbmap? |
| 18:02.22 | Estel_ | I see. On TMO post, you've written that you replaced binary .kmap file with it's source in branch |
| 18:02.24 | Pali | I do not remember args... really look at recovery console |
| 18:02.40 | Estel_ | binary file worked, so I though it's all ok to use source ;) |
| 18:02.41 | Estel_ | OK |
| 18:02.44 | Pali | that package working on my n900 |
| 18:02.54 | Pali | source code in that package should work |
| 18:03.02 | Estel_ | thanks, will try it |
| 18:03.07 | Pali | (at least scratchbox and autobuilder compiled working version) |
| 18:03.22 | Pali | I remember that there was big problems about it... |
| 18:04.28 | Estel_ | I see. Well, I pinged you mainly, to ensure that loadkeys-maemo from kb package (uploaded by you) is supposed to be working |
| 18:04.42 | Estel_ | will try it with source from recovery shell package in a moment |
| 18:04.55 | Estel_ | if packages interface is working ;) |
| 18:05.02 | Estel_ | ~rmo-new |
| 18:05.02 | infobot | from memory, rmo-new is do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 |
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| 18:16.22 | sixwheeledbeast | tmo down? |
| 18:16.39 | freemangordon | yep , "gateway timeout" |
| 18:16.56 | sixwheeledbeast | ah fmg |
| 18:17.25 | sixwheeledbeast | thumb fennec... doesnt work in portrait correct? |
| 18:17.40 | freemangordon | possible |
| 18:17.54 | freemangordon | there were some glitches from time to time |
| 18:18.05 | freemangordon | but it is an upstream bug iirc |
| 18:18.22 | sixwheeledbeast | only if you open the app in portrait, not rotation to portrait |
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| 18:18.57 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: yep, I remember there were some problems. however, my focus now is on embedlite |
| 18:19.12 | sixwheeledbeast | kk no worries |
| 18:19.21 | freemangordon | I hope something realy useful will come out of it |
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| 19:47.09 | Jaffa | Interesting. Jim Jaglieski is a member of the Hildon Foundation and seems to have had it pitched as a way of bringing a competitor to iOS or Android to market. |
| 19:47.12 | Jaffa | *cough* |
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| 19:49.38 | Woody14619 | I've been becoming more and more aware that there is a deep misunderstanding on both sides of this as to what the other has seen. How much of that is based on misperception, miscommunication, or misrepresentation is yet to be seen. But I fear the latter is not entierly out of the question, as I'd hope it would be. |
| 19:50.01 | Jaffa | Just reading your posts on TMO, and you've been making the same points as me - so I'll probably shut up :-) |
| 19:51.27 | Woody14619 | Well.. A small chime in I think would be helpfull. ;) But that's up to you. I originally mistook GeneralAntilles post on MWNK to be your writing, in part because you do tend to be one of the more rule-based and letter-of-the-law following folks. ;) |
| 19:51.57 | Woody14619 | .oO(And in part because I was tired when replying and missed the by line. ;) |
| 19:53.34 | Estel_ | Pali, nokia-n900.map from recovery boot package, indeed compiles OK via loadkeys |
| 19:53.40 | Estel_ | still, I don't get something |
| 19:54.56 | Estel_ | keymaps man state, that keys should be listed per columns, as defined by scipt header. So, if 0-2,4 is dfined as columns... |
| 19:55.04 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, yeah, that angle is certainly interesting. |
| 19:55.32 | Estel_ | first key for given keycode is plain press, 1 is shift + key, 2 is AltGr + key, and 4 is ctrl + key |
| 19:55.58 | Estel_ | now, that should be, as per keymaps, only way to define it - using "weight" of modifiers, and every modifier have certain power of two weight |
| 19:56.14 | Estel_ | now, Pali, in your nokia-n900.map, it looks as it's mixed |
| 19:56.17 | Estel_ | for example |
| 19:56.39 | Estel_ | keycode 18 = e |
| 19:56.48 | Estel_ | altgrkeycode 18 = three |
| 19:57.28 | Estel_ | why the hell that 2nd line works at all, instead of being 2nd column |
| 19:58.00 | Estel_ | now, later in that script: |
| 19:58.12 | Estel_ | keycode 51 = commasemicolonequal |
| 19:58.24 | Estel_ | which seems to be proper way of defining it as per keymaps manual |
| 19:59.25 | Estel_ | (comma = 0, aka "just pressed", semicolon is key + shift, equal is AltGr + key) |
| 20:00.06 | Estel_ | why the heck in some parts of this script it is defined like that, and somewhere else, it looks like in previous example (altgr keycode 18 = three) |
| 20:00.49 | Estel_ | Pali, or anyone else who have experience with console keyboard maps, could you explain it? |
| 20:03.00 | Estel_ | here is script in question (that is accepted by keyloads, while, by manual, it shouldn't - or I just get it wrong way): |
| 20:03.01 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?648be4bf1b61b570#0eKH9eMAsX0DR2sF0C9/fTelcKmDfhjhCSZt03T/DsU= |
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| 20:05.12 | Estel_ | here is sample of how I tried to do it and it is *not* accepted by keyloads (syntax error): |
| 20:05.13 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?edaf5f1cd87164a9#cA3UPHcG+iUxA4ZgEjQn6v3wR8+LtjcB4P6hJCwTAbs= |
| 20:06.15 | Estel_ | despite that I did it in line with this manual: |
| 20:06.16 | Estel_ | http://linux.die.net/man/5/keymaps |
| 20:06.21 | Estel_ | any ideas, anyone? |
| 20:06.27 | Estel_ | Pali, ? |
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