| 00:00.20 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:02.59 | ShadowJK | epossidic? |
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| 00:05.41 | xes | epoxy glue (bi-component) |
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| 00:07.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: turktrust ;-D |
| 00:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: one lousy screw borked is no disaster on screen |
| 00:11.17 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: nice to here, stud is still in there so not expecting much movement with the other five screws in |
| 00:16.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: you could drill it out, fill the hole with epoxy, and drill a new hole with thread after that (or without thread, depending on type of screw) |
| 00:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you simply ignore the "problem" |
| 00:17.15 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: IYO is it worth it? |
| 00:23.31 | sixwheeledbeast | oh well, finished reading meeting logs. I will think about the screw "problem" in the morning. gn all. |
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| 01:08.11 | Woody14619 | Yay! My N900 booted again! Backupmenu saves the day, again... |
| 01:14.31 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
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| 01:38.49 | shawnjefferson | hi |
| 01:40.54 | ShadowJK | hello |
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| 01:46.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for those who don't follow tmo without somebody pointing them to something (like I usually do): http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89387 |
| 01:49.55 | RST38h | Shuffling chairs on the Titanic? |
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| 01:54.40 | shawnjefferson22 | I just posted a thread on tmo about this, but is soappy python module available for n900? |
| 02:14.15 | RST38h | ...Methods of transportation include the US Postal system, transporting it by hand to an office representing the charity, or sending each bill individually with an avian organism. |
| 02:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
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| 02:56.39 | ManoftheSea_ | Thanks Doc. I guess I should register as part of the Community. |
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| 03:05.20 | Estel_ | divVerent, for photos and other sensitive thing, I use truecrypt on N900 |
| 03:05.24 | Estel_ | separate partition |
| 03:05.43 | Estel_ | + startup script at boot time which asks for passwords and keyfiles |
| 03:06.16 | Estel_ | then, addressbook, mail things etc were moved to truecrypt partition and symlinked |
| 03:06.18 | Estel_ | sms database |
| 03:06.27 | Estel_ | generally, everything worth keeping private |
| 03:06.57 | Estel_ | now, N900 is so kind, that after boot, it wait a minute or so before polling things like addressbook (unless you open it manually) |
| 03:07.07 | Estel_ | so you have plenty of time to fill password and keys |
| 03:07.46 | Estel_ | if not done in those minute (or two or three, cant remember) hildon split some pop-up errors, then, everything act like on fresh device - no contacts, bo sms, no mails, no anything |
| 03:08.26 | Estel_ | new ones are saved for runtime, but dissapear after reboot - unless I provide password for truecrypt, which of course bring back my things on place, automagically. Very conveinent |
| 03:08.58 | Estel_ | CSSU cam, (by my suggestion, btw ;) ) use config file that allow you to provide path where photos should be saved |
| 03:09.11 | Estel_ | so videos and photos went to truecrypt partition too |
| 03:09.15 | Estel_ | divVerent, ^^^ |
| 03:09.30 | Estel_ | ~truecrypt |
| 03:09.30 | infobot | it has been said that truecrypt is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81435 |
| 03:10.03 | Estel_ | IMo very conveinent way. Everything explained there, including how to make sure partition gets unmounted in cause of thievery |
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| 03:10.53 | Estel_ | (getting rid of lockcode require at least one reboot, so automounted partition get unmounted) |
| 03:12.17 | Estel_ | now as for regular system security, there are things fools do to have password requiment for root, but as said, no shadow, so it's worth shit |
| 03:12.47 | Estel_ | and rootsh, while seems like broken concept, in practice just work, without unneeded complications that doesn't give any *real* security |
| 03:13.14 | Estel_ | OTOH, your point about browser exploit is interesting and I don't care if N900 is unlikely the target |
| 03:13.27 | Estel_ | if something can be made better/more secure, it's worth it |
| 03:14.28 | Estel_ | but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). |
| 03:15.16 | Estel_ | kerio, any ideas, how one could harden it against browser exploits, leaving alone poor HAM that is so broken, that I would never regret getting rid of it completely? |
| 03:16.47 | Estel_ | every 1 is asleep, it seems ;) have good night, folks. |
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| 03:37.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rot13 Estel_ |
| 03:37.03 | infobot | Rfgry_ |
| 03:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | fools argue like "if something can be made better/more secure, it's worth it" + "root security are futile, as no shadow" |
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| 03:56.54 | ManoftheSea | risk-analysis. |
| 03:57.03 | ManoftheSea | Personally, I'd prefer LUKS to Truecrypt |
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| 03:57.38 | ManoftheSea | It'd be more secure to launch your phone into the sun. |
| 03:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | security is measured in "time needed to break in" |
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| 04:01.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | security is measured in "time needed to break in" |
| 04:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and sufficient security is defined as "effort to break barriers is higher than value of the assets protected by those barriers" |
| 04:05.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno about the perceived effort needed by those who rant about useless root password, to bruteforce teh root password from the hash in /etc/password. I also have no idea about the assets those guys carry on their phone. For me a proper root password is not only reasonable to have but actually sufficient to secure my assets I have on N900 |
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| 05:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, should we discuss a bit about further amendments needed to either HiFo bylaws or council statutes? |
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| 05:39.30 | Macer | wow. my lumia 900 got up to $152 on ebay |
| 05:39.39 | Macer | that is far more than i expected heh |
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| 08:33.34 | eddyb | pleease help me nuke maemo-optify-runonce |
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| 08:34.10 | eddyb | every time I upgrade or install anything, aptitude tries to install that package first |
| 08:34.47 | eddyb | and guess what it does? instant shutdown |
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| 08:37.17 | eddyb | I can't remove it either, because it kills the process installing it, thus corrupting its own state |
| 08:37.27 | eddyb | dpkg: error processing maemo-optify-runonce (--remove): |
| 08:41.25 | eddyb | Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should reinstall it before attempting a removal. |
| 08:42.28 | eddyb | (sorry for the delay, it's not exactly easy to copy-remove_newline-paste on this.. |
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| 08:47.36 | eddyb | this worked dpkg --force-remove-reinstreq -P maemo-optify-runonce |
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| 08:53.13 | eddyb | aand I want to install mp-fremantle-community-pr which PreDepends: maemo-optify-runonce |
| 08:58.26 | eddyb | and I'm also plagued by hash mismatch on the "official" repos (maemo.org I think) |
| 08:59.28 | thedead1440 | eddyb: you can either use mirrors or the new official repos at 213.128.137.22 |
| 09:00.25 | thedead1440 | ~mirrors |
| 09:00.25 | infobot | mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 09:00.59 | eddyb | ~rmo-new |
| 09:00.59 | infobot | hmm... rmo-new is do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 |
| 09:01.25 | eddyb | I like the hostname hack :D |
| 09:02.20 | eddyb | thedead1440: thanks, that solves the hash problem, but I still can't use cssu-testing-thumb properly because of maemo-optify-runonce :( |
| 09:03.02 | thedead1440 | eddyb: np; why not install it now that you have removed it properly? |
| 09:03.14 | thedead1440 | it==maemo-optify-runonce |
| 09:03.50 | eddyb | as I said, it instantly shuts down the system when installing |
| 09:04.36 | eddyb | it kills apt-worker before it can be marked as installed |
| 09:05.43 | thedead1440 | how the heck did you end up in trouble with it in the first place? |
| 09:06.11 | eddyb | mp-fremantle-community-pr pre-depends on it |
| 09:06.34 | thedead1440 | oh |
| 09:07.42 | eddyb | sweet, at least I got node.js on this :D |
| 09:09.58 | eddyb | weird, the maemo-optify-runonce description looks innocent |
| 09:10.09 | eddyb | it says it just moves files |
| 09:10.58 | eddyb | brb this might shutdown |
| 09:11.07 | thedead1440 | ask kerio about it |
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| 09:19.48 | eddyb | I tried renaming /usr/bin/killall, that made no difference |
| 09:20.22 | thedead1440 | why would you do that? |
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| 09:20.50 | eddyb | thedead1440: it was killing processes, I thought maybe it ended up killing something vital that would trigger a shutdown |
| 09:21.06 | eddyb | killall browserd as root triggers a shutdown IIRC |
| 09:21.11 | thedead1440 | killall is linked to busybox |
| 09:21.18 | thedead1440 | you don't want to be screwing busybox up |
| 09:21.26 | eddyb | I renamed the link |
| 09:21.39 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: hey! Is there any way to upload packages to the new "test" autobuilder? I tried GARAGE-USERNAME@213.128.137.22 |
| 09:23.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think you need to upload to drop |
| 09:24.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to repo |
| 09:25.10 | thomasjfox | at least ssh complains the drop.maemo.org IP address changed - that's a good sign in this case :) |
| 09:25.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it's not exactly recommended to use this for production yet, since we might need to do a final rsync immediately before switch-over, and that would nuke all your stuff |
| 09:25.52 | eddyb | so I'm looking in the preinstall for maemo-optify-runonce |
| 09:26.01 | thomasjfox | no worries, I just want to test if the build works at all. |
| 09:26.15 | eddyb | # Here we have to reboot - before starting SSU pkg upgrade HAM stops & kills most of applications, system is in non-functional state anyway. Reboot nicely - with display blanking and led fading off. |
| 09:26.52 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: "scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/: No such file or directory" |
| 09:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | try garage then |
| 09:27.23 | eddyb | before the reboot, dokill "hildon-application-manager" "TERM"; dokill "apt-worker" "TERM" |
| 09:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't recall what the guys did for upload |
| 09:27.48 | thedead1440 | eddyb: so after reboot it should continue the process maybe you just have to be patient |
| 09:27.56 | eddyb | nope |
| 09:28.00 | eddyb | it doesn't even reboot |
| 09:28.02 | thomasjfox | thanks anyway :) |
| 09:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | garage is 26, btw |
| 09:28.45 | eddyb | it uses pidof and kill, but that's not the reason it shuts down |
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| 09:30.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<eddyb> aand I want to install mp-fremantle-community-pr)) |
| 09:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think that's any recommended |
| 09:30.36 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: 26 as in .26 I guess. Just seems to hang without any transfer happening |
| 09:30.41 | eddyb | DocScrutinizer05: I want cssu-testing-thumb |
| 09:31.03 | eddyb | thedead1440: it's supposed to show me a banner saying that I need at least 150MB of free space in /home. but that's commented in the script :/ |
| 09:31.22 | thomasjfox | alright, looks like it's not ready for prime time yet :) |
| 09:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | thomasjfox: ask jacekowski or pali |
| 09:31.54 | thomasjfox | summons jacekowski |
| 09:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we encountered that "scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/: No such file or directory" and the guys worked around it or fixed it or whatever, I didn't follow |
| 09:32.45 | thomasjfox | I guess drop.maemo.org is right, just the path will be different |
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| 09:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if it's a NFS mount or whatever |
| 09:33.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be |
| 09:33.27 | thomasjfox | because if scp says "no such file or directory" for the remote host, then authentication was successful |
| 09:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check |
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| 09:35.17 | eddyb | hahahaha |
| 09:35.34 | eddyb | return `/bin/busybox stat -ft "$1" | /bin/busybox awk '{print int($5*$9/(1024*1024)) }'` |
| 09:35.59 | eddyb | but stat -ft /home displays two lines... and the free space for the second, blank line, is 0 |
| 09:36.12 | eddyb | damn thing is broken |
| 09:37.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, sorry!! http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ |
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| 09:37.58 | eddyb | did they even test the script? it looks like this wasn't supposed to work, ever |
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| 09:40.01 | thedead1440 | eddyb: i don't remember people on the TMO thread complaining... |
| 09:40.19 | eddyb | I am telling you nokia fucked up |
| 09:40.51 | eddyb | now, I think I can hijack stat to return the right line, all the time, without the second blank line |
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| 09:41.54 | *** part/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) |
| 09:43.17 | amospalla | sometimes, when connecting to wlan, n900 says "could not connect, try again?" if I tell it to connect wlan another time, wlancond goes 100% cpu |
| 09:43.31 | amospalla | is that a known problem? |
| 09:44.35 | eddyb | haha plugged in USB saved me from reboot |
| 09:45.30 | eddyb | now I can just ignore the stupid thing |
| 09:46.57 | eddyb | the stat trick didn't work, though :/ |
| 09:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | thomasjfox: did you try first time ~45min ago to use builder? |
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| 09:49.56 | eddyb | I just have to wait 7 seconds and ignore the dpkg preinstall error |
| 09:50.37 | eddyb | thanks guys, at least my N900 is now in a more manageable state :) |
| 09:55.31 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: yep |
| 09:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, you killed blade-b |
| 09:55.50 | thomasjfox | :o) |
| 09:56.05 | thomasjfox | Funnily it didn't even upload anything |
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| 09:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | what was first thing you did? could you share the cmdline in private /query ? |
| 09:57.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly with result/diagnostic-output |
| 09:58.00 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: I'll just copy my terminal output from the moment I started, it's not that much |
| 09:58.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, pastebin it and post me the URL in a /wuery |
| 09:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | query even |
| 09:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no DCC |
| 09:59.31 | thomasjfox | crap |
| 09:59.41 | thomasjfox | didn't want to put it on a pastebin... |
| 10:00.12 | thomasjfox | I'll upload it somewhere private |
| 10:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | privatepaste.com |
| 10:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | or send per mail |
| 10:07.09 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: did the high load on blade-b fix "itself" automatically? Or this some kind of watchdog reset it? |
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| 10:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, we had to push the button |
| 10:09.42 | thomasjfox | I could try to repeat my steps and then we can check when/how it dies |
| 10:20.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | thomasjfox: we're still investigating |
| 10:21.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even sure if it's been you, though "L.J.Gibbs: I don't believe in chance" |
| 10:27.38 | thomasjfox | like I said, I could try again |
| 10:27.44 | thomasjfox | then we know for sure |
| 10:28.00 | thomasjfox | but when you asked me if I tried it ~45min ago, my uptime showed 47min |
| 10:28.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, everything up again, go ahead |
| 10:28.15 | thomasjfox | I just got up to try a rockbox build :) |
| 10:28.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I said, try IP of new drop.m.o |
| 10:28.31 | thomasjfox | which is it? |
| 10:29.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure |
| 10:29.57 | thomasjfox | ah, .25 |
| 10:30.32 | thomasjfox | yes, uploading! |
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| 10:35.06 | MrPingu_ | Hi folks! |
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| 10:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | thomasjfox: builder active |
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| 11:07.27 | divVerent | 04:14:28 Estel_ | but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). |
| 11:07.33 | divVerent | Estel_: actually "fixable" |
| 11:07.47 | divVerent | set an invalid password hash for root, and ONLY log in via ssh with key ;) |
| 11:08.07 | divVerent | another thing... 04:14:28 Estel_ | but even in this case fool's messing with duplicating root security are futile, as no shadow (I know, there is more than that, but it pretty sums it to conclusion). |
| 11:08.08 | divVerent | sorry |
| 11:08.16 | divVerent | has anyone mirrored http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php? |
| 11:08.42 | divVerent | I would like to get the SDK VM images, as scratchbox and the SDK apparently only run on 32bit Debian-based distros, and I have a 64bit Arch |
| 11:10.04 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:17.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tablets-dev |
| 11:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror |
| 11:17.32 | infobot | [mirror] http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 11:17.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 11:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~skeiron |
| 11:17.42 | infobot | skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
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| 11:30.48 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: hm... none seem to have mirrored the VM images |
| 11:32.24 | divVerent | skeiron ends up pointing me to http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ |
| 11:32.38 | divVerent | but the link again goes to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php |
| 11:34.34 | RzR | then we should make them again adding latest scratchbox and targets |
| 11:36.33 | thomasjfox | DocScrutinizer05: looks like the build succeeded :) cool! |
| 11:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | surprisedß |
| 11:36.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 11:37.20 | thomasjfox | yep :) in December it failed with some weird error |
| 11:37.28 | thomasjfox | also I didn't get any build log email |
| 11:37.53 | divVerent | or can anyone compile foo2hp for me? want to get my printer to work from the N900 |
| 11:38.15 | divVerent | setting up a new VM and then all the SDK stuff would take days... too bad the Debian binaries don't work due to N900 having a too old libc |
| 11:38.15 | thomasjfox | I'll try a diablo build, too |
| 11:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think diablo builder is even enabled |
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| 11:38.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno |
| 11:38.53 | divVerent | my goal would BTW not be using cups, but just the foo2hp wrapper called by a trivial "lpr.sh" script |
| 11:39.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure we haven't tested it |
| 11:39.25 | thomasjfox | let's see what happens |
| 11:39.32 | divVerent | WAIT... actually, MAYBE debian oldstable's foo2zjs works... |
| 11:39.42 | divVerent | it still fails to dpkg -i due to wrong libc |
| 11:39.46 | divVerent | but it SEEMS like the binary runs anyway |
| 11:39.58 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:40.00 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:40.07 | divVerent | is there a simple way to tell dpkg to not care and assume it's configured anyway? |
| 11:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | was there some --force or somesuchß |
| 11:40.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 11:42.02 | divVerent | not really... I tried --force-depends |
| 11:42.04 | divVerent | which SEEMS to work |
| 11:42.10 | divVerent | but then apt-get -f install wants to remove it |
| 11:42.24 | divVerent | looks like I probably will rather have to extract it to a subdir of /opt instead |
| 11:46.41 | divVerent | for reference, I used foo2zjs_20070718dfsg-9_armel.deb... its output LOOKS like the right command stream, but I'll know for sure once my son is awake and I can turn on the printer |
| 11:46.55 | divVerent | the version from 2009 does not work, missing glibc symbol |
| 11:47.20 | divVerent | http://pastebin.com/RyUJR5CF - and this would be my "lpr script<" |
| 11:53.40 | thomasjfox | is a donation to the hildon foundation eligible for tax deduction? |
| 12:00.46 | thomasjfox | hmm since the hildon foundation is a non-profit organization, donations -should- be eligble for tax deduction. I'll give it a try. |
| 12:04.35 | thomasjfox | only thing seems to be that some German tax offices don't accept the paypal transfer for it. Let's see if they act up next year :o) |
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| 12:21.08 | divVerent | yes, this foo2hp binary works |
| 12:21.25 | thomasjfox | now you can print the Internets! |
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| 12:25.50 | XATRIX | Hi guys, any idea how can i initiate skype video call from my handset ? |
| 12:26.01 | XATRIX | I can only start IM or voice call |
| 12:26.17 | XATRIX | But sometimes, after a few video calls, i can initiate it by myself |
| 12:26.30 | XATRIX | But i can't track it , how did i do it |
| 12:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | thomasjfox: no, and actually HiFo didn't even bother to update their donations list since 6 weeks. *I* would think twice |
| 12:28.32 | thomasjfox | worst think that can happen is that they don't recognize it. Since the amount is below $100, it won't kill me. |
| 12:29.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst thing that can happen is that HiFo drools over the money while techstaff pays HDD from own pocket since dealing with HiFo is simply not worth the hassle |
| 12:30.20 | XATRIX | Any idea about my problem? |
| 12:30.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1326428#post1326428 |
| 12:31.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-09 11:36:50] <warfare> Something got stuck with the disks. |
| 12:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-09 11:37:41] <warfare> all vms couldn't write to disk after ~9:45 or so. |
| 12:32.05 | thomasjfox | hmm |
| 12:32.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | hw issue? |
| 12:32.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had hoped those HDD wait til we get some companions for them before they act up |
| 12:32.58 | thomasjfox | what about the "donations" link here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222 |
| 12:33.15 | thomasjfox | I thought it sends money to HiFo |
| 12:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it does |
| 12:33.46 | thomasjfox | but you think it's a bad idea? It's too late anyway, I already donated... |
| 12:33.52 | thomasjfox | :) |
| 12:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://hildonfoundation.org/supporters/ |
| 12:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 12:35.44 | thomasjfox | I wrote them a message, let's see what happens |
| 12:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think twice to donate to an entity that doesn't even bother to keep their donors updated about state of funding |
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| 12:35.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol |
| 12:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess it's not exactly the first message they get |
| 12:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually blame *me* for not already editing http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222 |
| 12:40.31 | thomasjfox | bank account status is listed here: http://hildonfoundation.org/board-minutes-for-meeting-on-february-17-2013/ |
| 12:40.58 | thomasjfox | looks like the money is currently frozen at Paypal |
| 12:41.06 | thomasjfox | (if I understand the text correctly) |
| 12:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, seems they don't get their stuff sorted. That's why I didn't even bother to *ask* for them paying the needed HDD |
| 12:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually thanks to a great community with lots of support in non-monetary, and thanks to a nice guy at Nokia, we didn't see any payments except that vBulletin license from HiFo funds |
| 12:46.32 | jacekowski | to be honest, i think vBulletin is a mistake |
| 12:46.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't honestly suggest handing more money to HiFo to let it ripe there |
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| 12:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: why? |
| 12:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it saved us days and weeks of time |
| 12:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and was pretty "cheap" |
| 12:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | we didn't feel like migarting to something different during migration. I'm not Dawg |
| 12:50.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Yo Dawg, heard youlike migrations, so we made migrations during migrations, so you can headdesk all day long |
| 12:50.25 | jacekowski | it's not userfriendly |
| 12:50.59 | jacekowski | and it does a lot of things differently |
| 12:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 12:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | so would you be the one to port stuff and write new plugins for any other sw ? |
| 12:52.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had other more important things on our plate |
| 12:52.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and still have |
| 12:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: we discussed it and common sense been it's not worth the effort to safe a 180 bucks and get something new right now |
| 12:55.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | if somebody from larger community is willing to port it to something "better", we're willing to support such effort/project by offering a VM and doing tests with life data |
| 12:55.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | in 2 months or 3 |
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| 14:38.40 | tx0h | huhu |
| 14:39.16 | tx0h | how can i switch the usb mode from pc to mass storage and vice versa |
| 14:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are two scripts |
| 14:39.52 | tx0h | nice |
| 14:40.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | osso-usb-mass-storage-*.sh |
| 14:41.55 | tx0h | ok, i first need to *-disable.sh and then *-enable.sh |
| 14:41.59 | tx0h | ty |
| 14:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 14:44.18 | kerio | those won't enable pcsuite though |
| 14:44.25 | kerio | also, i'm not sure the ui follows that |
| 14:44.34 | kerio | pcsuite has its own scrips |
| 14:44.36 | kerio | scripts |
| 14:45.01 | tx0h | named?\ |
| 14:45.09 | kerio | iirc, they're pcsuite-* |
| 14:46.10 | tx0h | also enable and disable, right? |
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| 14:47.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | pcsuite-disable.sh pcsuite-enable.sh |
| 14:48.34 | tx0h | nods |
| 14:50.30 | tx0h | hmmm.. my linux desktop sees sdb and sdc but i can't mount them |
| 14:50.48 | kerio | you have to mount sdb as a single partition |
| 14:50.52 | kerio | sdc should have a partition table |
| 14:50.54 | kerio | or viceversa |
| 14:51.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | blkid might help, iirc |
| 14:51.56 | tx0h | both have no partition table (fdisK: unable to open /dev/sdb: No medium found) |
| 14:52.02 | tx0h | same with sdc |
| 14:52.16 | tx0h | but syslog says they are attached |
| 14:52.28 | tx0h | as sg2 and sg3 |
| 14:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, so obviously not sdb |
| 14:54.43 | kerio | i blame systemd |
| 14:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | fair enough I guess |
| 15:01.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.233325] scsi 8:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 |
| 15:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.233557] sd 8:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0 |
| 15:02.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.234526] scsi 8:0:0:1: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 |
| 15:02.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.234772] sd 8:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg6 type 0 |
| 15:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.241900] sd 8:0:0:0: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 15:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn kernel: [1586087.244140] sd 8:0:0:1: [sdf] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 15:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mar 9 16:01:04 saturn dbus-daemon[879]: **** ADDING /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.8/2-1.8:1.0/host8/target8:0:0/8:0:0:0/block/sde |
| 15:02.17 | kerio | spam! |
| 15:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | pr0n |
| 15:03.14 | tx0h | yepp, looks similar. after a nokia boot i can mount sdb (which is /home/user/MyApps) |
| 15:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it needed selecting MSM from menu before my desktop showed them devices as available (well *after* the above quote) |
| 15:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you haven't seen spam yet. that friggin DBUS shit in my syslog is true spam |
| 15:06.10 | kerio | gotta love the linux desktop |
| 15:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | the above 7 lines dissolve in that |
| 15:06.14 | kerio | i heard it's its year |
| 15:06.52 | tx0h | MSM from menu?? |
| 15:07.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | plugging in that N900 created like >100 loglines in syslog |
| 15:07.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | most of them DBUS spam: Mar 9 16:03:24 saturn dbus-daemon[879]: **** CHANGED /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.8/2-1.8:1.0/host8/target8:0:0/8:0:0:1/block/sdf |
| 15:08.08 | tx0h | what is MSM in which menu? |
| 15:08.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | mass storage mode |
| 15:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the menu that popps up |
| 15:08.46 | kerio | ah yes, osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh requires a device file as a parameter |
| 15:08.47 | tx0h | ah, you mean the dialog |
| 15:08.57 | kerio | so those two are two LUNs that don't do anything |
| 15:09.41 | tx0h | oh, device file? lile /dev/mmcblk0 ? |
| 15:09.50 | kerio | it'd have to be /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 15:09.57 | kerio | but you have to umount MyDocs first |
| 15:10.02 | kerio | or Bad Things will happen |
| 15:12.26 | tx0h | so you really give the partition and not the whole disk |
| 15:16.34 | tx0h | why does frozen cake takes so long to thaw |
| 15:17.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | because you can't wait to eat it |
| 15:18.36 | tx0h | thats true. i can't wait |
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| 15:27.35 | tx0h | what things can be done in pc mode? |
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| 15:32.59 | Macer | wow |
| 15:33.09 | Macer | my lumia 900 went for 150 on ebay. that was far more than i thought :) |
| 15:43.16 | Macer | :) an N9 is cheaper than an N8 |
| 15:44.54 | tx0h | yes, windows is more expensive |
| 15:45.02 | thedead1440 | ...and a N8 is cheaper than a N900. so? It depends on geographical areas... |
| 15:46.37 | tx0h | i just got my first usb-fine n900 for 60eur |
| 15:46.49 | tx0h | last week |
| 15:48.15 | tx0h | is this price ok? |
| 15:48.38 | thedead1440 | tx0h: its a bargain if the hw is fine ;) |
| 15:49.11 | tx0h | it works like my other one but with usb port :-) |
| 15:52.07 | Macer | wow... yeah you're right |
| 15:52.35 | Macer | but i just thought it strange since they are same models |
| 15:52.41 | Macer | ie: N8 to N9 |
| 15:53.05 | Macer | then again i suppose at the time they were more parallel than anything |
| 15:53.15 | Macer | i wouldn't mind getting an n9 just to get one |
| 15:53.38 | tx0h | n8 hasnt a keyboard and only 16gb |
| 15:53.55 | Macer | n9 doesn't have a keyboard either ;) |
| 15:53.56 | tx0h | aeh, n9 |
| 15:54.00 | tx0h | i meant |
| 15:54.05 | Macer | yeah :( |
| 15:54.12 | thedead1440 | Macer: it all depends on location and sellers. I just did a simple ebay.com search now and N8 buy it now is going for even $110 while most are around the $240-$270 range. The cheapest N9 for buy it now starts at $240 |
| 15:54.13 | Macer | that's its biggest drawback |
| 15:54.25 | Macer | thedead1440: oh i just looked it up on amazon |
| 15:54.37 | tx0h | they should give us a N900 |
| 15:54.43 | Macer | ebay is good for some things but amazon usually has a fair representation of the price |
| 15:54.53 | tx0h | back, with better usb soldering |
| 15:54.55 | thedead1440 | yeah we mortals here in Singapore have to depend on ebay since Amazon doesn't service us well :( |
| 15:55.17 | Macer | ouch lol |
| 15:55.31 | Macer | been to singapore. awesome place. |
| 15:55.48 | thedead1440 | also wasn't amazon the one where N8s were going for $200 or $250 around 8months after release? |
| 15:56.01 | Macer | not sure i didn't keep up with them much |
| 15:56.15 | Macer | i was just looking at 808s and N9s |
| 15:56.20 | thedead1440 | it was rumoured that offer helped push up N8 sales |
| 15:56.22 | Macer | naturally N8s popped up in the N9 search |
| 15:56.30 | tx0h | singapore is, where the unpaid taxes go, right? |
| 15:56.30 | Macer | yeah heh |
| 15:56.34 | thedead1440 | ah 808 that's one you should get just for that gigantic sensor |
| 15:56.38 | thedead1440 | tx0h: hehe |
| 15:56.41 | Macer | tx0h: no i thin kthat's switzerland still |
| 15:56.45 | Macer | although the swiss punked out |
| 15:56.49 | Macer | and gave accts to the US |
| 15:56.53 | Macer | wtf? :) |
| 15:56.57 | thedead1440 | singapore beat the swiss ;) |
| 15:57.13 | Macer | after that the swiss probably lost half its banking industry |
| 15:57.14 | Macer | hahaha |
| 15:57.29 | Macer | its main draw was that they were strictly confidential regardless of circumstances |
| 15:57.40 | Macer | and they caved to US politicial pressure |
| 15:57.44 | thedead1440 | there was an EU delegation who came down here with some warrants and notices to search account details of EU citizens and they were flatly denied and told to enjoy their stay and leave soon after :D |
| 15:57.56 | Macer | lol |
| 15:57.59 | Macer | that's awesome |
| 15:58.31 | Macer | and singapore is a huge exchange...so messing with them is out of the question |
| 15:58.41 | thedead1440 | true |
| 15:58.58 | Macer | you sanction singapore then the dow will drop like 10,000 points the next day lol |
| 15:59.01 | thedead1440 | also Singapore bailed out a number of banks so you don't mess with your paymasters ;) |
| 15:59.13 | Macer | yeah that too haha |
| 15:59.32 | Macer | but yeah.. singapore was awesome |
| 15:59.36 | Macer | not nearly as bad as people make it sound |
| 16:00.05 | Macer | like spitting gum on the ground will get your tongue chopped off or something... i mean i didn't test it but i know i didn't see much "strictness" |
| 16:00.07 | thedead1440 | its bad for the politics, heat and damn expensive cars |
| 16:00.11 | Macer | it reminded me of asian vegas :) |
| 16:00.30 | thedead1440 | its a S$500 fine for littering although you don't get caught easily |
| 16:00.38 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 16:00.47 | Macer | yeah but i'm not much of a litterbug heh |
| 16:00.54 | thedead1440 | and chewing gum was banned for >10 years. even though allowed only if you registered with your ID at point of purchase |
| 16:00.56 | Macer | we have fines for that here too but it is never enforced |
| 16:01.24 | Macer | lol... i didn't chew any gum ;) i just got some breath mints |
| 16:01.41 | Macer | when i went the exchange rate was awesome too |
| 16:01.52 | Macer | i was there in 06 |
| 16:02.51 | thedead1440 | ah you must have got i think 1.60 to a US dollar at that time |
| 16:03.01 | tx0h | jersey, the private isle of the queen. thats where you can put your money :-) |
| 16:04.05 | Macer | roughly |
| 16:04.08 | Macer | i think more than that to be honest |
| 16:04.10 | Macer | it was almost 2:1 |
| 16:04.23 | thedead1440 | 2:1 nah impossible |
| 16:04.27 | Macer | lol |
| 16:04.35 | Macer | well... i considered cost was less as well ;) |
| 16:04.37 | thedead1440 | the worst it has ever been was ~2003 at 1.78 |
| 16:05.02 | thedead1440 | its at 1.25 now btw ;) |
| 16:06.49 | Macer | $1.66 (January 2, 2006) |
| 16:06.57 | Macer | that's about the time i was there |
| 16:07.07 | Macer | lol |
| 16:07.18 | Macer | i'm surprised the S$ isn't beating the US$ |
| 16:07.29 | Macer | we are in such bad shape |
| 16:07.43 | thedead1440 | nah the govt won't allow it to beat the US$; you don't want to chase away Exxon and the likes |
| 16:07.58 | Macer | it's amazing the world keeps its head in the sand about the state of the US economy |
| 16:08.23 | Macer | it is an absolute nightmare here .. and our govt is skewing the unemployment numbers to make things look ok |
| 16:08.26 | Macer | it's like soviet russia |
| 16:08.59 | Macer | they said it is down nationally to 7.6% i believe, but those numbers don't reflect the people who have run out of unemployment benefits and simply gave up on looking anymore |
| 16:09.02 | thedead1440 | well its the USA; everyone has interests in it not dying off so its artificially propped up in a way |
| 16:09.06 | Macer | so in reality it could be as high as 15% lol |
| 16:09.22 | Macer | yeah exactly. but eventually it has to come to a fall :) |
| 16:09.30 | Macer | you can't keep acting like enron forever |
| 16:10.13 | Macer | not only that but our government doesn't show any relation to increase in welfare entitlements vs unemployment rates |
| 16:10.23 | Macer | meaning you don't see those who stopped looking swapping over to welfare |
| 16:10.47 | Macer | if you were to lump it all together you'd probably have around 30-40% of the US being "poor" |
| 16:10.59 | thedead1440 | yeah its a sad state of affairs |
| 16:11.11 | Macer | meaning our govt is paying for roughly that many people to survive |
| 16:11.18 | thedead1440 | unfortunately its the middle and lower groups who are squeezed |
| 16:11.28 | Macer | although our version of survival is far different than real poor people in poor countries lol |
| 16:11.31 | Macer | we have fat poor people |
| 16:11.42 | Macer | in most other countries they'd have died off by now :) |
| 16:11.49 | thedead1440 | loll |
| 16:12.48 | Macer | honestly it isn't someone filing for welfare that gets on my nerves |
| 16:12.55 | Macer | it happens. it is meant for just that occasion |
| 16:13.12 | Macer | it is the abuse of it where you have individuals who have the cradle to grave mentality and are born on welfare and stay on it until they die |
| 16:13.22 | thedead1440 | true |
| 16:13.28 | thedead1440 | well that happens in a welfare state |
| 16:13.37 | thedead1440 | things always have pros and cons |
| 16:13.41 | Macer | i have no problem with anybody who uses welfare for a short period until the economy bounces back etc.. like i said.. it is exactly how it is meant to be used |
| 16:13.50 | Macer | i know someone who had to do that |
| 16:14.43 | thedead1440 | here you don't have any welfare. All welfare is the 20% of salary you paid to your own fund monthly and the govt decides how much you can take out of it at which time of your life. So no govt welfare but your own money you are limited on its options |
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| 16:16.11 | Macer | yeah |
| 16:16.19 | Macer | that is how social security is supposed to work here ;) |
| 16:16.27 | Macer | that didn't work either |
| 16:16.45 | Macer | they had a story of some old woman who put in $10,000 and has so far received like $100+K |
| 16:17.01 | Macer | so it's just a giant ponzi scheme |
| 16:17.03 | thedead1440 | that's cool |
| 16:17.08 | thedead1440 | :D |
| 16:17.22 | Macer | and we have a giant chunk of our population coming to age |
| 16:17.27 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@94.45.179.115) |
| 16:17.29 | Macer | so we are about to witness a social security "run on the bank" |
| 16:17.30 | Macer | heh |
| 16:17.43 | GeneralAntilles | Toxic incentives |
| 16:17.44 | GeneralAntilles | Road to hell and all that. |
| 16:17.47 | Macer | so now another program that will fail :) |
| 16:17.57 | Macer | although it has failed already anyways |
| 16:18.06 | Macer | my favorite govt debacle is the USPO |
| 16:18.17 | Macer | they make the post office pay for a pension that has absolutely nothing to do with postal workers :) |
| 16:18.33 | GeneralAntilles | You don't "put in" money into social secuirty |
| 16:18.33 | GeneralAntilles | it's an income transfer scheme, no more. |
| 16:18.33 | GeneralAntilles | Pension bombs are going to collapse California |
| 16:18.51 | Macer | GeneralAntilles: yes. seems so. |
| 16:19.00 | Macer | IL too |
| 16:19.13 | Macer | CA and IL have giant state economies .. there is no way they should be broke.. and pensions are the reason why |
| 16:19.26 | Macer | we have people who are able to triple and quadruple up on pensions |
| 16:19.52 | Macer | receiving more money retired than they ever received working .. on top of other benefits and entitlements |
| 16:20.15 | thedead1440 | wtf? that's one seriously broken system |
| 16:20.50 | SpeedEvil | linking payments strictly to contributions has problems. |
| 16:21.48 | SpeedEvil | for example, what about someone who gets into a no-fault accident at age 17, and is unlikely to ever be able to work again |
| 16:23.40 | Macer | heh yeah |
| 16:23.57 | Macer | we had a recent article abouta guy who went to the chicago police academy and something happened.. i can't remember what |
| 16:24.12 | Macer | he has collected nearly $500K in disability pay over the span of 10 years for being a cadet for roughly 1 week :) |
| 16:24.21 | Macer | it is absolutely insane |
| 16:24.41 | Macer | the problem is that the US has an overabundance of people looking to get over on the systems in place |
| 16:24.58 | Macer | there is no honor because we have the "me now" mentality.. nobody cares about the society as a whole |
| 16:25.05 | Macer | not even the politicians ;) |
| 16:25.32 | Macer | waiting for this guy to pay for me to send out this lumia 900 |
| 16:25.46 | Macer | so glad i swapped over to tmobile prepaid for $30/month.. :) |
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| 16:39.09 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, biggest problem in the US is that welfare is handled at the federal level |
| 16:39.33 | GeneralAntilles | It'd be similar to the EU handling welfare for every member state |
| 16:39.54 | GeneralAntilles | It's a mess and, being government, there's no incentive to do it usefully or efficiently. |
| 16:40.36 | GeneralAntilles | Macer, problem isn't so much the people, but the systems in place that enable toxic behavior. |
| 16:40.42 | GeneralAntilles | hell, incentivize it. |
| 16:42.58 | Macer | agreed heh |
| 16:43.22 | Macer | working at mcdonalds for a poor mother with no baby daddy would probably mean like a $20K/year reduction in "pay" |
| 16:45.06 | GeneralAntilles | There was an interesting article recently looking at marginal tax rates for single mothers in the UK |
| 16:45.42 | GeneralAntilles | There's effective no difference in income between no job and a £50k salary |
| 16:46.00 | GeneralAntilles | Make marginally less at the £50k. |
| 16:52.31 | tx0h | ok, i made a tar of /home thru nfs. can i repartition the internal mmc now and play the tar back with no problem? |
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| 16:57.25 | Estel_ | hey, hey, divVerent, actually some very interesting thing you're doing |
| 16:57.35 | Estel_ | was your printer connected via hostmode, or via wifi? |
| 16:58.23 | Estel_ | if the latter, why not cups? One of my task for near future was to make N900 print into printers connected by USB, and cups via easy debian was the only way that seemed to work |
| 16:58.51 | Estel_ | very interesting things you're messing with, when it goes to that debian things |
| 16:59.16 | Estel_ | BTW to make dpkg GTFO, you need to repackage it with "faking" dependency to match maemos glibc |
| 16:59.49 | Estel_ | if it works with old glibc, just pretending to need never one, it's OK to fix that dependency, and even upload it to maemo -devel |
| 17:00.19 | Estel_ | as for other things, like your idea of giving wrong hash and logging root only via local ssh, quite interesting ;) |
| 17:00.53 | Estel_ | but what if yoy need to launch something GUI'fied via root, for some debug purpose or whatsnot? |
| 17:01.43 | tx0h | sighs |
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| 17:41.17 | divVerent | Estel_: wifi, plugged via ethernet into the AP |
| 17:41.57 | divVerent | i do not want to waste RAM on cupsd when not using it |
| 17:42.54 | divVerent | as for launching GUI stuff via ssh: ssh -X or -Y |
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| 18:06.46 | sixwheeledbeast | puts a pizza in the oven and is reminded how great cooktimer is :) |
| 18:07.19 | tx0h | n900 - the cooking helper |
| 18:10.02 | sixwheeledbeast | props to ade |
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| 18:19.57 | Macer | tx0h: lol |
| 18:20.20 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: you know they sell an egg timer for like $1? :) |
| 18:20.42 | Macer | or does the n900 shut your oven off? |
| 18:21.29 | tx0h | via bluetooth |
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| 18:21.41 | Macer | i was going to say wifi but i guess bt works as well |
| 18:21.43 | Macer | :) |
| 18:22.02 | Macer | remotely after leaving for the store forgetting you had something in the oven heh |
| 18:22.21 | tx0h | but with IR you can boil your eggs directly |
| 18:25.09 | Macer | i usually use the built in death ray for that.. concentrated gamma rays are far faster than IR |
| 18:25.36 | tx0h | also true |
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| 18:29.41 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: you can't time three different things with a eggtimer |
| 18:29.53 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: also cooktimer is FOSS |
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| 18:35.55 | tx0h | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:41.15 | sixwheeledbeast | tx0h: repartitioning? |
| 18:41.24 | tx0h | yes, the mmc |
| 18:41.33 | tx0h | i like to have more for opt |
| 18:42.02 | tx0h | i made a tar of /home thru nfs. can i repartition the internal mmc now and play the tar back with no problem? |
| 18:43.11 | sixwheeledbeast | tx0h: never done it but have you read http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash |
| 18:50.30 | tx0h | they don't write much about backup and play it back. i just like to know if a simple tar cf / tar xf will do the job |
| 18:51.28 | tx0h | i know how to delete/create partitions and create filesystems |
| 18:53.51 | kerio | tx0h: yep |
| 18:53.53 | kerio | i suggest using rescueOS |
| 18:54.42 | tx0h | tar isn't good enough? |
| 18:54.54 | tx0h | i already have a 2.8gb tar |
| 18:55.03 | kerio | ...wat |
| 18:55.14 | kerio | /home isn't even big enough for that |
| 18:55.17 | kerio | what did you tar |
| 18:55.23 | kerio | you probably tarred MyDocs too |
| 18:55.33 | tx0h | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:55.39 | tx0h | sure |
| 18:55.54 | kerio | yeah, you don't want to tar /home, especially not on a live system |
| 18:56.02 | tx0h | a backup of all data on mmc (escept swap) |
| 18:56.05 | kerio | you want to tar the contents of the second partition of the emmc, when the system isn't booted |
| 18:56.20 | kerio | and then, *separately*, MyDocs if you want to |
| 18:56.54 | tx0h | but /home has /opt, these are all the programs i've installed |
| 18:57.36 | tx0h | and i can extract them with tar xf bla.tar home/opt home/user |
| 18:58.28 | tx0h | and sure i want my cached maptiles back in MyDocs :-) |
| 19:00.59 | tx0h | and don't i need to mkfs for the /home partition? |
| 19:02.30 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 19:05.32 | tx0h | i don't see why i can't just extract the tar file under /home |
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| 19:08.37 | tx0h | sighs |
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| 19:25.59 | kerio | because /home/user/MyDocs is a mountpoint |
| 19:26.52 | tx0h | well, but i can mount it before i extract the tar archive |
| 19:27.55 | tx0h | which files are so complicated that i can't tar them in a running environment? |
| 19:29.19 | nox- | anything that changes at runtime |
| 19:29.32 | tx0h | can you name some? |
| 19:29.41 | nox- | not really |
| 19:29.45 | kerio | ~/.cache |
| 19:29.59 | nox- | its a known issue with backups on any syste, |
| 19:30.02 | nox- | system |
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| 19:30.53 | tx0h | in ~/.cache is nothing of interest |
| 19:31.53 | kerio | also, i'm not entirely sure there's nothing that changes in /opt |
| 19:33.52 | tx0h | i roughly looked through all dirs under /home and can't find nothing critical |
| 19:34.11 | kerio | ok, then why the fuck are you asking us |
| 19:34.33 | tx0h | because i could oversee something |
| 19:35.14 | kerio | like the fact that you made the image while the system was running |
| 19:35.38 | tx0h | and 'just don't do it because there is a convention' is not a real good reason |
| 19:36.24 | tx0h | i just like to know: hey, there is this or that file open, when you write the backup back you broke this and that. |
| 19:39.18 | kerio | hm, tracker does his thing in ~ |
| 19:42.59 | tx0h | well, i think i will go for it. i guess i can't brick with that |
| 19:50.53 | Estel_ | tx0h, while I would recommend doing it in live system, I sympatize with your "lets do it and see what heppens, as there is no technical proof that it won't work" |
| 19:51.02 | Estel_ | (especially, that it's not my system :P) |
| 19:51.14 | Estel_ | just tell us how it ended, Ok? I suspect you'll be allright |
| 19:51.46 | Estel_ | for future, not including mountpoints in backup speed things up, especially, if you may have - again, in future- much more thing in mydocs |
| 19:51.50 | tx0h | well, actually i struggle with unmounting /opt |
| 19:51.57 | Estel_ | no much reason to include it in casual backup |
| 19:52.05 | Estel_ | during runtime of hildon? |
| 19:52.07 | Estel_ | dont do that |
| 19:52.20 | Estel_ | just exclude thing you dont want from backup |
| 19:52.26 | Estel_ | btw, never heard of backupmenu? :P |
| 19:52.34 | Estel_ | it is program that would do all of it for you |
| 19:52.43 | tx0h | sure, but i don't know if it supports nfs |
| 19:52.52 | Estel_ | where do you have nfs |
| 19:53.05 | tx0h | on my desktop |
| 19:53.20 | Estel_ | backupmenu doesn't have anything to do with your desktop |
| 19:53.28 | tx0h | see |
| 19:53.32 | Estel_ | it backups your root and home to mydocs or sd card |
| 19:53.33 | tx0h | thats why i don't use it |
| 19:53.34 | Estel_ | on device |
| 19:53.39 | Estel_ | no desktop involved |
| 19:54.08 | Estel_ | well, any reason for not using sd card to store backup and restore it later? ;) |
| 19:54.12 | tx0h | i don't have a sd card. and backupmenu didn't support nfs |
| 19:54.26 | Estel_ | so backup to mydocs and move file to desktop, later |
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| 19:54.53 | tx0h | but i have a backup already |
| 19:54.58 | Estel_ | btw backupmenu support whatever you mod it to support, I've included ext4 for my personal use |
| 19:55.01 | Estel_ | well |
| 19:55.10 | Estel_ | so why unmounting opt for a life of you? |
| 19:55.21 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, managed to get rid of screw in screen? |
| 19:55.53 | Estel_ | I had same problem with perfectly circular screw once, and no left drill at hand, so could share experiences if needed. |
| 19:57.00 | Estel_ | tx0h, what you want to do is get backupmenu, and either do it's backup or - if you want to use one backup you have already - enable backupmenu's mass storage mode... |
| 19:57.25 | Estel_ | which export all partitions, including mmcblk0p2, to your deskto |
| 19:57.39 | Estel_ | there, using gparted or whatever, change partition layout |
| 19:58.13 | Estel_ | if you're wise boy, you have backupmenu backup and mydocs backuped separately, so you can, instead of time-consuming resizing, just create new partition table on device |
| 19:58.26 | Estel_ | with any layout you feel fancy |
| 19:58.35 | Estel_ | I have 7 partitions on eMMC ;) |
| 19:59.11 | Estel_ | then you just restore backup and everything is done |
| 19:59.31 | Estel_ | this way I use to repartition one N900 using no desktop, just another N900 |
| 19:59.41 | Estel_ | using easy debian's gparted and hostmode |
| 20:00.06 | Estel_ | I even use modified backupmenu for migrating to ext4 home at the same time |
| 20:01.09 | Estel_ | I replace backupmenu files with ones that have all my mkfs time and mountime optimizations, then, I modify mount-opts and genfstab.awk to support ext4 (during runtime of device with ext3, as it's important on boot only) |
| 20:01.20 | tx0h | with backupmenu i can edit the partitions of /dev/mmcblk0 ?? |
| 20:01.37 | tx0h | on my desktop? |
| 20:02.01 | Estel_ | then I reboot into backupmenu, do backup (that include files for mount with ext4, as they were modified before reboot), connect device to another device and create new partition table, then, I restore backup using backupmenu |
| 20:02.38 | Estel_ | 10 minutes and device repartitioned + filesystem for home changed, without involving desktop at all, yet, still using nice gui tools for creating partition layout |
| 20:02.38 | Estel_ | tx0h, yes |
| 20:02.46 | tx0h | and i can mount all the partitions on my desktop? |
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| 20:03.05 | Estel_ | well, without backupmenu you can do it to, but editing mmcblk0p2 during device runtime with X and hildon and things would be catastrophic |
| 20:03.09 | Estel_ | tx0h, yes |
| 20:03.16 | Estel_ | absolutely all partitions |
| 20:03.37 | tx0h | i tried that before but i just could mount MyDocs |
| 20:03.40 | Estel_ | there is option "mass storage mode" for read only or for read and write in backupmenu, whoich safely exports all partitions as mass storage |
| 20:03.57 | Estel_ | safely, because it's not regular maemo runtime, so you can mess with mmcblk0p2 too |
| 20:04.18 | Estel_ | never heard about any problems with it, so i suspect user-error ;) |
| 20:04.51 | Estel_ | also, be sure to use linux on desktoop, as windoze won't know what to do with ext home |
| 20:05.07 | Estel_ | even less let you create new partition table, properly |
| 20:05.21 | Estel_ | if you don't have linux dektop, use livecd (I recommend aptosid) |
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| 20:05.24 | tx0h | i connected the phone via usb to my laptop and saw sdb and sdc but could only mount sdb (MyDocs) |
| 20:05.33 | Estel_ | or virtualisation |
| 20:05.41 | Estel_ | because you don't have microsd |
| 20:05.46 | Estel_ | and sdc is microsd :P |
| 20:06.19 | Estel_ | +, under linux, and using backupmenu mass storage mode, you will see things like sdb1, sdb2, sdb3... |
| 20:06.25 | Estel_ | (mydocs, home, and swap) |
| 20:06.39 | tx0h | aha, but then i did not got the whole disk and even not /home itself |
| 20:06.49 | Estel_ | yep. |
| 20:07.09 | tx0h | i tried fdisk on /dev/sdb and got nothing |
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| 20:07.20 | Estel_ | btw sdb is pure example, it may be whatever, depending on your disk's layout |
| 20:07.32 | tx0h | sure |
| 20:07.40 | Estel_ | without experience with messing with it via terminal, better use gparted |
| 20:08.03 | tx0h | well, i do unix/linux since 30 years |
| 20:08.04 | Estel_ | I have experience with terminal partitioning, yet still it's faster and less error prone to use good'old'gparted |
| 20:08.09 | Estel_ | :) |
| 20:08.43 | tx0h | but there is even no single user mode on the phone :-) |
| 20:08.49 | Estel_ | well, then you should be coding kernel for us, instead of asking about basics :P |
| 20:08.51 | Estel_ | (joking) |
| 20:09.06 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: well stuck in there but not too worried tbh |
| 20:09.39 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, what I used is hard screwdriver (prefferably flat), small enough to fit into screw |
| 20:09.46 | Estel_ | more sharp one, the better |
| 20:09.47 | tx0h | ok, i will try the backupmenu and see if i can get the mmc on my host |
| 20:10.02 | Estel_ | and *carefully* hammer it a little into screw. Doing it right, no chances to punctuate screw |
| 20:10.12 | Estel_ | then, carefully, you should be able to unscrew it |
| 20:10.23 | Estel_ | you need to cut a little into screw, it's not hardest one on earth |
| 20:10.38 | Estel_ | most screwdrivers are harder, thankfuly, so will cut inside easily |
| 20:10.45 | Estel_ | then dispose of that screw :P |
| 20:10.58 | Estel_ | tx0h, sure |
| 20:11.35 | Estel_ | and be supercool carefull with screwing them, they're quite soft, thats why nokia manuals say "dispose of screws" after every operation on them |
| 20:11.56 | Estel_ | of course it's bullshit, and if you're carefull, screws on N900 can last eternity |
| 20:12.11 | Estel_ | just use correct screwdriver and watch for rounding |
| 20:12.15 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: not a chance of that working I tried alsorts when there was a head on the screw |
| 20:12.31 | Estel_ | well, without head it should not hold anything |
| 20:12.44 | sixwheeledbeast | i suspect the thread was borked during manufacture |
| 20:13.21 | Estel_ | hm, never saw that on any nokia screw. |
| 20:13.42 | Estel_ | btw glueing screwdriver to screw wont work for 99,99% of times |
| 20:14.15 | sixwheeledbeast | correct hence not too worried, I drilled the head off after trying to glue/reverse drill/ cut slot in head |
| 20:14.15 | Estel_ | even soldering it to screw won't help ;) |
| 20:14.31 | Estel_ | wow, reverse drill haven't helped? |
| 20:14.35 | sixwheeledbeast | I know solder would be pointless |
| 20:14.52 | sixwheeledbeast | i mean it was seriously in there |
| 20:14.54 | Estel_ | on slow turnings? |
| 20:15.07 | Estel_ | heh |
| 20:15.11 | sixwheeledbeast | yep |
| 20:15.31 | Estel_ | honestly, you're right with not being worries, one screw there lacking is generally OK |
| 20:16.05 | Estel_ | btw just few minutes ago i disassembled device to fix slider, as screen was shaking a little on it's own gravity |
| 20:16.16 | Estel_ | after zillions of slidings |
| 20:16.17 | sixwheeledbeast | the best option was cutting a slot in the top I put so much torque on the flat screwdriver half to head came off |
| 20:16.42 | sixwheeledbeast | s/to/the/ |
| 20:16.52 | Estel_ | was super-easy to fix via applying force on slider parts, to make it thickier again |
| 20:17.01 | sixwheeledbeast | grr not what I meant infobot |
| 20:17.20 | sixwheeledbeast | insulting tape |
| 20:17.25 | Estel_ | :) |
| 20:18.00 | Estel_ | s/ to / the / would work better |
| 20:18.13 | sixwheeledbeast | oh did I mention before all the choas of the head getting rounded it snapped my ph0 bit |
| 20:18.31 | Estel_ | heh |
| 20:18.46 | sixwheeledbeast | s/ choas / chaos / |
| 20:18.52 | sixwheeledbeast | :) |
| 20:18.57 | Estel_ | :) |
| 20:19.36 | sixwheeledbeast | hence I suspect thread issue |
| 20:19.36 | Estel_ | divVerent, I disable cups when not in use, afterr all, it sits in chroot |
| 20:19.52 | Estel_ | so it doesn't eat memory when not used, that would be unnaceptable ;) |
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| 20:29.47 | tx0h | nice, i can fdisk it now with 'w' from backupmenu |
| 20:29.49 | tx0h | :-) |
| 20:34.20 | *** join/#maemo tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@212.179.75.202) |
| 20:34.43 | tx0h | ok, i make a new tar backup now, fdisk the disk and write the backup back |
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| 20:48.48 | Estel_ | tx0h, exactly |
| 20:48.55 | Estel_ | ~seen Pali |
| 20:48.59 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 21h 34m 16s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer05, here is link for PR.1.3.1 fiasco image: http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin'. |
| 20:49.43 | kerio | Estel_: i just do it on device with rescueOS nowadays :) |
| 20:50.24 | Estel_ | but it is still creating new partition table via terminal |
| 20:50.32 | kerio | of course |
| 20:50.36 | kerio | why wouldn't i want to use fdisk |
| 20:50.57 | Estel_ | much more error prone than gui tools. Of course, with terminal, you may do it all on single device, not two. Even with backupmenu, not necessary rescueOS |
| 20:51.27 | Estel_ | well, It's quicker to divice emmc into 7 partitions of exactly same size as I want, using gparted ;) |
| 20:51.28 | tx0h | well, i still have /home and /home/user/MyDocs in one tar file :-p |
| 20:51.41 | tx0h | :-) |
| 20:51.42 | Estel_ | but your mydocs is empty |
| 20:51.46 | Estel_ | if made via backupmenu |
| 20:51.52 | Estel_ | just a mountpoint |
| 20:51.54 | tx0h | nope, i mounted it |
| 20:51.59 | Estel_ | well |
| 20:52.17 | Estel_ | if you feel it fancy ;) |
| 20:52.43 | tx0h | it's so much faster than doing it over wireless |
| 20:53.02 | Estel_ | for me this way home backups grow unnecessary in size - if you fckd smth on device and want to restore, you restore home, doesn't need to touch mydocs |
| 20:53.05 | tx0h | but my other n900 has no usb yet. |
| 20:53.48 | tx0h | you are right but normaly i don't do backups :------) |
| 20:54.00 | tx0h | thats the admins task |
| 20:54.04 | tx0h | harhar |
| 20:54.08 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, what was that command to tell something to someone, when he arrive? (not about factoid). And how to use it properly, so it would tell it once, on one channel, not everywhere, where that person appears, and infobot is present? |
| 20:54.36 | Estel_ | considering the ammount of bleeding edge things I install, I do backups all the time |
| 20:55.33 | tx0h | yepp, you are very active with the n900 and i welcome it! |
| 20:55.51 | tx0h | i saw some hardware mods as well |
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| 21:03.18 | sixwheeledbeast | well you can't backup after a failure... I was made up I had a backup when ribbon died |
| 21:04.19 | tx0h | ok, /home has 8gb now |
| 21:04.24 | tx0h | funtastic |
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| 21:11.14 | kerio | tx0h: "single user" mode is backupmenu's shell or rescueOS's shell |
| 21:11.24 | kerio | or the recovery console in bootmenu, i suppose |
| 21:11.37 | kerio | ...yes, recovery console in bootmenu is the closest thing to single user mode |
| 21:11.56 | tx0h | i'm done. ty |
| 21:12.19 | kerio | i would still install recovery console and rescueOS in u-boot |
| 21:12.42 | tx0h | but for the other n900 its good to know |
| 21:21.22 | Estel_ | tx0h, glad you've made it :) |
| 21:21.43 | Estel_ | yea, I do hardware mods to, including one major that I hope to finish before dying of old age |
| 21:22.04 | kerio | Estel_: alu body? |
| 21:22.15 | tx0h | yepp, i just hope i can fix the usb on the other one |
| 21:22.18 | Estel_ | = repalcement body for N900, that would allow us to utilize all hardware possibilities N900 give |
| 21:22.47 | Estel_ | kerio, yea - alu, or, as for my personal one of choice, wooden :P |
| 21:22.56 | kerio | don't be silly |
| 21:23.08 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 21:23.11 | Estel_ | what, some exotic wood looks fantastic |
| 21:23.28 | kerio | the screen part would be the stock one, right? |
| 21:23.29 | Estel_ | yea |
| 21:23.29 | kerio | metal on wood doesn't look good |
| 21:23.37 | tx0h | water resistent magnesia aloy would be nice |
| 21:23.42 | Estel_ | depends on wood, I plan to use black one :P |
| 21:23.57 | kerio | ebony? |
| 21:24.09 | Estel_ | moving parts wouldnt be water reistant, but rest assured, when I ever finish this project... |
| 21:24.27 | Estel_ | there is someone who would pay me few k dollars for deep underwater resistant body |
| 21:24.35 | Estel_ | for N900 |
| 21:24.43 | Estel_ | bioshock, ffs :P |
| 21:24.53 | Macer | doubt it |
| 21:25.07 | kerio | Estel_: how do you make the slider water resistant? |
| 21:25.09 | Estel_ | why so, people have different use cases |
| 21:25.11 | tx0h | wow |
| 21:25.21 | Estel_ | kerio, haven5 though about it yet, especially for higher pressures |
| 21:25.22 | tx0h | he could use a camera bag |
| 21:25.25 | Estel_ | but everything is doable |
| 21:25.39 | Estel_ | now for higher pressure (camera bag) |
| 21:25.45 | Estel_ | s/now/not/ |
| 21:26.06 | Macer | because for such a niche market like underwater photography |
| 21:26.22 | Estel_ | kerio, no joking, I would first check what submarines use for moving parts :P |
| 21:26.22 | Macer | i doubt the first thing that comes to someone's mind is "oh yeah.. my ancient n900..." |
| 21:26.34 | Macer | especially for deep diving |
| 21:26.44 | Estel_ | I dount it's about submarine phoptography |
| 21:26.46 | Macer | that requires a "pressure bag" heh |
| 21:27.01 | Estel_ | btw, N900 is quite OK :P |
| 21:27.07 | Estel_ | for underwater photo |
| 21:27.19 | Estel_ | saw some really nice underwqater video in HD made by N900 |
| 21:27.38 | Macer | the n900 doesn't even do hd without some type of overclocking hackery i thought |
| 21:27.47 | Estel_ | ...then utilize replacement body's external antenna conector, and communicate with world like submarines does |
| 21:28.01 | Macer | which i am sure is awesome for the n900 while it is stuck inside an airtight bag to prevent it from imploding :) |
| 21:28.07 | Estel_ | Macer, you're years away of knowing anything about what maemo can do |
| 21:28.09 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 21:28.19 | Macer | uhm |
| 21:28.36 | Estel_ | hd recoring is quite common now, thanks to freemangordon's work |
| 21:28.37 | Macer | is it upscaled SD ? :) |
| 21:28.43 | Estel_ | of course not. |
| 21:29.05 | Macer | i was joking |
| 21:29.13 | Macer | can't see it.. there has to be hackery involved :) |
| 21:29.27 | Estel_ | wasn't sur, considering all this "maemo is stuck" bullshit you're selling us every 2 days :P |
| 21:29.42 | Macer | it is |
| 21:29.46 | Macer | heh |
| 21:29.51 | Estel_ | hackery as in using some files from harm and slight overclocking of DSP |
| 21:30.12 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05 said it himself, "THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR MAEMO!!!!" |
| 21:30.13 | Macer | heh |
| 21:30.19 | Estel_ | btw, do you know that hildon desktop successfuly run on arch on N900? :P |
| 21:30.23 | Estel_ | haha |
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| 21:30.48 | Estel_ | I wouldn't listen to DocScrutinizer05 when it comes to things where emotions are involved |
| 21:30.51 | Macer | either way tho.. why would someone use an n900 for diving? :) i mean i guess maybe some maemo nut |
| 21:31.00 | Estel_ | to said it at least and in non-offensive way :P |
| 21:31.16 | Macer | no way. he was right tho. :) |
| 21:31.34 | Estel_ | because android suck and there is still nothing better than N900 in the market, when it comes to super mobile computer with all computer functionalities? |
| 21:31.42 | Macer | he fought tooth and nail to explain why maemo wasn't going to run on any new hardware.. then finally blurted out the brutal truth |
| 21:31.59 | Estel_ | I would gladly use something with 1GB RAM, or more, but there is no such thing ;) |
| 21:32.02 | Macer | hm. depends on what you consider "computer functionalities" |
| 21:32.30 | Estel_ | not only functionalities - doing what desktop can do |
| 21:32.46 | Estel_ | ask yourself why android suck on that big time |
| 21:33.01 | Macer | depends on what you mean again |
| 21:33.46 | Macer | for the most part with the right apps android can pretty much do anything maemo can although it woudl do it slower on better hardware |
| 21:33.54 | Macer | but nowadays the hardware is so retardedly fast that doesn't matter |
| 21:33.56 | Estel_ | cmon, it's all thing about so-called smartphone vs computer |
| 21:34.33 | Estel_ | for the most part android require you to pay for funny "apps", and surely won't let me use debian on it ;) |
| 21:34.34 | Macer | sure.. but... i dunno.. i think if i hooked up my tf101 to something hdmi.. .. i would be able to fulfill my "computer needs" on it |
| 21:34.53 | Macer | i mean as far as a user goes |
| 21:35.09 | Estel_ | depend on computer needs you have - for me it's about real computer, i.e. all that things like upstream kernel, X, proper hostmode etc |
| 21:35.10 | Macer | obviously i probably won't be able to run it as an android server :) but who would do that to their phone heh |
| 21:36.00 | Macer | i think those types of things are more a problem with the manufacturer of the phone than android |
| 21:36.07 | Estel_ | and achieving anything on android is super-pita |
| 21:36.27 | Macer | like the most amount of users for a mobile OS? ;) |
| 21:36.28 | Estel_ | well, some of them, yes, but lack of being real foss linux system is android fault |
| 21:36.42 | Macer | what is the maemo share nowadays heh |
| 21:36.48 | Estel_ | with not-so-upstream kernel, and completely non GNU things above it |
| 21:36.53 | Macer | those things are great but they end without demand |
| 21:37.17 | Estel_ | well, I really don't care about what thousand of flies use to sit at. |
| 21:37.19 | Macer | if only maemo started off with a functional store and lame free apps like the talking mouse and fart app :) |
| 21:37.23 | Estel_ | and you know what I mean |
| 21:37.45 | Macer | no i know exactly what you mean.. you mean the functionality of the n900 is better than newer hardware but i don't blame google for that |
| 21:37.56 | Macer | if people stoppped buying phones because of no usb host mode |
| 21:37.59 | Macer | it would be added ;) |
| 21:38.06 | Estel_ | I care about my needs for device ;) personally, I also thing that cliche for real linux device is quite big, and jolla may discover it they wo't screw it |
| 21:38.25 | Macer | plus.. didn't the n900 require a bit of hackery to get the host mode working? |
| 21:38.29 | Estel_ | today, many people with simillar needs for real computer are stuck on unfriendly android, not because they like it ah so much |
| 21:38.49 | Macer | http://hacknmod.com/hack/run-an-android-nexus-one-on-usb-host-mode/ |
| 21:39.01 | Estel_ | dont blame google? lately, they have removed ad-hoc wifi support from android |
| 21:39.18 | Estel_ | because some idiots may fail to know when they're MITM'ed |
| 21:39.18 | Macer | on a nexus one |
| 21:39.21 | Macer | heh |
| 21:39.34 | Estel_ | + all this drm shit |
| 21:39.39 | Macer | uhm |
| 21:39.42 | Estel_ | I'll leave it to ubuntu :P |
| 21:39.54 | Macer | didn't they put it back in the latest android? |
| 21:40.56 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48C7F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:41.22 | Estel_ | no idea |
| 21:41.37 | Estel_ | btw I think you're a little wrong about that invisible market hand |
| 21:41.52 | Macer | if you say so... demand dictates supply |
| 21:41.52 | Estel_ | as in "if people would like this functionality, it would be added" |
| 21:42.03 | Estel_ | not necessary. Take gaming market as example |
| 21:42.07 | Macer | points at symbian and maemo and meego as examples |
| 21:42.21 | Estel_ | people wish good mature RPG's or old style adventures, yet no big company make it |
| 21:42.31 | Estel_ | then, new things like kickstarter appear... |
| 21:42.50 | Estel_ | and one dude get few millions in a week just to make a game, before even drawing concept |
| 21:43.05 | Estel_ | later, wasteland 2 is also financed before even started being manufactured... |
| 21:43.27 | Estel_ | there is shitload of things like bad marketing and internal power games (Nokia) |
| 21:43.57 | Estel_ | N900 was biggest success that they expected, and would be 10 times bigger if they would actually want it to be success |
| 21:44.06 | Macer | meh. the bottom line was they were losing money because apple and google kicked them in the balls and people liked flashy interfaces more than functionality |
| 21:44.07 | Estel_ | instead of worrying how it will affect symbian |
| 21:44.18 | Macer | plain and simple heh |
| 21:44.29 | Macer | they didn't start making symbian anything worthwhile until belle |
| 21:44.32 | Estel_ | frankly, I blame it rather about people not even knowing about alternatives, due to terrible marketing from Nokia |
| 21:44.36 | Macer | and by then they needed an MS bailout |
| 21:44.49 | Macer | and so with it went any other mobile OS they had |
| 21:45.06 | Macer | nokia didn't move fast enough when it could have due to top of the hill syndrome |
| 21:45.14 | Macer | they thought they'd be able to quickly buy their way out of problems |
| 21:45.33 | Estel_ | anyway, ammount of people starting doing own things, foss software (whole Linux!) on their own, all those 3D printers etc, tell us that "demand dictates supply" being too much a "mental shortcut" |
| 21:45.35 | Macer | then came apple with the iphone.... that was bad enough... then came google with a much anticipated mobile OS :) |
| 21:45.44 | Estel_ | for some extent it does, but not always and not in every matter |
| 21:46.08 | Macer | for all extent it does... nobody will donate money to the world for tech ;) not willingly at least |
| 21:46.23 | Estel_ | btw look at raspberry Pi and people who buy it... no single company wanted to do thing like that, too ;) |
| 21:46.23 | Macer | if we could pick and choose what we spend our taxes on there would be no DoE in the US lol |
| 21:46.36 | Estel_ | well, Oi don't agree |
| 21:46.37 | Macer | pi had great demand tho |
| 21:46.46 | Macer | mostly for its ability to use xbmc |
| 21:46.50 | Macer | if nobody bought it |
| 21:46.53 | Macer | it wouldn't exist |
| 21:46.55 | Macer | :) |
| 21:46.58 | Estel_ | most people just doesn't see sense on taxes, due to not seeing/knowing at they're used to, or seeing them wasted |
| 21:47.06 | Macer | if people stop buying it.. it becomes obsolete |
| 21:47.16 | Macer | this is basic economics |
| 21:47.37 | Estel_ | *shrug* I see something more to drive things that I use in my life, than "if others buy itn |
| 21:47.39 | Estel_ | *shrug* I see something more to drive things that I use in my life, than "if others buy it" |
| 21:47.43 | Estel_ | sorry |
| 21:47.56 | Estel_ | but you seem to say things that some big companies would like people to belive ;) |
| 21:48.18 | Estel_ | have you never considered, that your way of thinking may be a little indoctrinated, in favor of someone else's interest? |
| 21:49.25 | Macer | lol! |
| 21:49.36 | Macer | if you think so... i say things like that because that is really how things work :) |
| 21:49.46 | *** join/#maemo q_plaz (~q_plaz@198.61.226.208) |
| 21:49.49 | Estel_ | well, everything is relative |
| 21:50.06 | Estel_ | 100 years before, many things were belived to "just work like that" in favor of indujstralism |
| 21:50.13 | Estel_ | two great war changed many things |
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| 21:50.33 | Estel_ | 300 years ago, for many people, king was touched by god himself, and it was "how things work" |
| 21:50.36 | SpeedEvil | The market can be malfuncional. |
| 21:50.41 | Estel_ | always in someone's interest ;) |
| 21:50.46 | Estel_ | exactly. |
| 21:51.04 | Macer | SpeedEvil: i wouldn't say malfunctional :) |
| 21:51.07 | SpeedEvil | Look, for example at lcds. |
| 21:51.34 | SpeedEvil | Where can I buy a 4:3 display? Or a 140dpi desktop display |
| 21:51.37 | Estel_ | market could have fix everything magically in theoretical examples of ideal world |
| 21:51.40 | Macer | the market just sometimes has an awkward way of correcting itself |
| 21:51.45 | SpeedEvil | They are essentially unavailable. |
| 21:51.47 | Estel_ | where decisions would be made with 100% knowledge of subject |
| 21:52.04 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: and this is the exact reason I am still using my 2001 laptop |
| 21:52.08 | Macer | not to mention that the too big to fail banks are ridiculously oversized and the manner in which our government creates money is retarded lol |
| 21:52.13 | freemangordon | 4:3 screen ;) |
| 21:52.16 | Estel_ | it doesn't include armies of lobbyists, etc |
| 21:52.26 | Macer | but from the basic manufacturer/consumer standpoint |
| 21:52.34 | Macer | if people want it they buy it |
| 21:52.40 | Macer | so make more of it |
| 21:52.43 | Macer | if they don't make less |
| 21:52.50 | Macer | this holds true regardless of wall street |
| 21:52.52 | Macer | and always has |
| 21:52.57 | Estel_ | Well, I think that in world where consumer avariness rises, and things like crowd-funding or self-manufacturing becomes more common, many things are going to look brighter |
| 21:53.01 | SpeedEvil | People are not always presented with stuff they want to buy |
| 21:53.12 | Estel_ | Macer, no. People choose only from available things |
| 21:53.23 | Estel_ | even if they would like something very different. |
| 21:53.33 | Macer | Estel_: n900 was widely available |
| 21:53.40 | Macer | :) |
| 21:53.42 | SpeedEvil | For LCDs, for example, there is a truly massive investment needed to go into making new panels. |
| 21:53.48 | Estel_ | it require more than market - like passion, or beliving in ideas, to create something different and bring it into market. |
| 21:53.53 | Macer | sales in comparison to the G1 for instance |
| 21:54.01 | Macer | the G1 outsold the N900 like 100:1 heh |
| 21:54.02 | Estel_ | Macer, and it was more success than Nokia would like to, at that time |
| 21:54.10 | Estel_ | same for, lets say, nokia pureview |
| 21:54.19 | Estel_ | they did everything they could to discourage buyers |
| 21:54.24 | freemangordon | Macer: n900 was not backed up by Nokia |
| 21:54.31 | freemangordon | Estel_: :nod: |
| 21:54.33 | Macer | oh here we go with the nokia conspiracy theories :) |
| 21:54.40 | Estel_ | its well known fact |
| 21:54.42 | Estel_ | nopt conspiracy |
| 21:54.46 | freemangordon | Macer: this is not conspiracy |
| 21:54.48 | Macer | and after that it was learned that nokia, was in fact, responsible for 9/11 |
| 21:54.54 | Estel_ | many nokia employess officially confirmed most of it |
| 21:55.01 | SpeedEvil | Several months in, things cooled dramatically. |
| 21:55.03 | Estel_ | ex-employees ;) |
| 21:55.05 | Macer | many "former" i'm sure |
| 21:55.09 | Macer | lol |
| 21:55.15 | SpeedEvil | Stupid stuff like the store not working. |
| 21:55.20 | Macer | and after that they said the CEO has sex with interns and men? |
| 21:55.24 | freemangordon | Macer: remeber elop saying that no matter what, n9 will be the last meego device? |
| 21:55.29 | Estel_ | well, fact is that for some countries, there were 8 nokia pureviews available |
| 21:55.39 | Macer | i like my e7.. loved my n900 |
| 21:55.43 | Estel_ | and people paid 5-6 times the price on ebay for them |
| 21:55.45 | SpeedEvil | And people being actively discouraged from launching software for n900. |
| 21:55.49 | Macer | but i can't buy into the nokia made themselves fail on purpose theory haha |
| 21:55.54 | Estel_ | conspiracy of ebay buyers? ;) |
| 21:55.55 | freemangordon | Macer: remember in which countries was n9 available in? |
| 21:56.09 | Macer | freemangordon: finland... and ... greenland? |
| 21:56.11 | Macer | :) |
| 21:56.14 | SpeedEvil | Macer: You're supposing 'Nokia' is one thing. |
| 21:56.15 | Estel_ | Macer, dont you realize how bad decisions, human errors, power games, bad management etc can sinkl a company? |
| 21:56.21 | freemangordon | and bulkgaria and khazahstan |
| 21:56.25 | freemangordon | *bulgaria |
| 21:56.41 | Macer | khazahstan!! |
| 21:57.03 | Estel_ | as for N900, it's said from many different sources, that they were concerned how it will affect sumbian (which was leader, then) |
| 21:57.31 | Estel_ | btw remember petitions to have N9 in some country? |
| 21:57.42 | Estel_ | and lack of support to N900 in many areas ;) |
| 21:57.44 | freemangordon | Macer: sorry for the typos, it is kazakhstan |
| 21:57.54 | Macer | yeah |
| 21:57.59 | Macer | i thought there was another k in there somewhere |
| 21:58.01 | Estel_ | compare it to success of Pi, and interest in vivaldi, even given fact that the latter never appeared |
| 21:58.20 | Macer | sorry but that sounds like a comp out for supporters to explain why their device is already obsolete with no new models out :) |
| 21:58.33 | Estel_ | I'm quite certain that niche for "geek mobile computers" is not lesser than for overpriced apple shit |
| 21:58.36 | Macer | like a year after mine when i had just had my n810 abandoned |
| 21:58.39 | SpeedEvil | It's internal politics. |
| 21:58.44 | Macer | just to have the n900 abandoned lol |
| 21:58.49 | Macer | the shit just wasn't selling |
| 21:58.52 | Estel_ | people are dying for anything that promises FOSS mobile computer |
| 21:58.53 | Macer | symbian was probably their best bet |
| 21:59.04 | Estel_ | inmcluding some cons |
| 21:59.04 | Macer | Estel_: maemo was anything but |
| 21:59.06 | Macer | lol |
| 21:59.13 | Macer | i used to come in here |
| 21:59.19 | Macer | listening to disgruntled devs all day |
| 21:59.21 | freemangordon | Macer: ooh, and symbian was abandoned because of the market? |
| 21:59.25 | SpeedEvil | Maemo was probably the closest we've gotten so far. |
| 21:59.42 | Macer | freemangordon: sure. nokia lost too much money. struck a deal with MS |
| 21:59.44 | Estel_ | Macer, I think, OTOH, that you're lacking knowledge about maaany events and technical decisions... |
| 21:59.46 | SpeedEvil | It's a hell of a lot more linux-like than android. |
| 22:00.00 | Macer | Estel_: if you say so |
| 22:00.05 | Estel_ | substituting it with corporate indoctrinated speech about everything lookins as it should with their other products |
| 22:00.09 | SpeedEvil | Fremantle that is, especially. |
| 22:00.13 | freemangordon | yeah. and now canonical going the google way |
| 22:00.20 | Macer | i know that hildon was amazingly closed while being marketed as a "OPEN PLATFORM" which was nothing more than a trend/fad back then |
| 22:00.28 | Macer | something to market on |
| 22:00.31 | Macer | until the iphone came out |
| 22:00.35 | Macer | and destroyed them :) |
| 22:00.39 | freemangordon | Macer: hildon is as open as it can get |
| 22:00.43 | Estel_ | I don't remember hildon being advertised almost at all ;) |
| 22:00.44 | Macer | then the G1... just to add insult to injury |
| 22:00.48 | freemangordon | on fremantle at least |
| 22:00.50 | Macer | maemo |
| 22:00.52 | Estel_ | and hildon is indeed open |
| 22:00.56 | Macer | my mistake heh |
| 22:01.16 | Macer | although |
| 22:01.19 | Macer | you can't blame nokia |
| 22:01.22 | Macer | they didn't own the omap ip :) |
| 22:01.33 | Estel_ | frankly, you're sitting on irc, without any idea how buzzing maemo community is, 5 years after last device release ;) |
| 22:01.45 | Macer | lol |
| 22:01.46 | freemangordon | Macer: you know that most of the fremantle(closed parts) was ready to be opensourced by may-june 2010 |
| 22:01.47 | freemangordon | ? |
| 22:01.49 | Estel_ | I just don't buy your thing about market rulling our woprld ;) |
| 22:01.51 | SpeedEvil | The lack of the omap IP is essentially zero to do with the platform issues |
| 22:01.53 | Macer | did they get the death ray enabled? |
| 22:01.53 | Estel_ | world* |
| 22:02.09 | SpeedEvil | Would it have been nice - yes. |
| 22:02.19 | Estel_ | freemangordon, interesting, I haven't been informed about that |
| 22:02.21 | Macer | SpeedEvil: no? so there weren't issues getting certain things working on their "open" device like say.. the modem? :) or running different Operating systems like nitdroid? |
| 22:02.37 | freemangordon | Macer: iirc stskeeps was the repo master or something |
| 22:02.42 | SpeedEvil | Is it relevant, compared to the platform lockdown due to the twisty maze of daemons - no. |
| 22:02.45 | Macer | looks around |
| 22:03.07 | Estel_ | brb |
| 22:03.17 | Macer | if the device was really opened like it was marketed... they'd be selling them out |
| 22:03.22 | Macer | skype had a ton of N900s to sell :) |
| 22:03.27 | Macer | and anybody can get skype |
| 22:03.28 | Macer | heh |
| 22:03.42 | freemangordon | Macer: n900 was not marketed |
| 22:03.42 | SpeedEvil | In many ways other OSs that can run on hardware do not interest me. |
| 22:03.48 | SpeedEvil | Network effects are huge |
| 22:03.53 | Macer | freemangordon: how much marketing has the pi gotten? |
| 22:03.57 | Macer | they seem to be selling them hand over fist |
| 22:04.06 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Lots |
| 22:04.16 | Macer | lots? LOL |
| 22:04.19 | SpeedEvil | It just happened to be free advertising, done very, very well. |
| 22:04.21 | Macer | yeah i see pi commercials all day long :) |
| 22:04.27 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: pi has had lots of marketing hence popularity |
| 22:04.27 | Estel_ | Macer, quite a lot, and N900 was released on 2008 |
| 22:04.36 | freemangordon | Macer: do you know what the real purpose of Pi is? |
| 22:04.38 | Estel_ | things look different with buyer awareness in 2012 |
| 22:04.52 | Macer | freemangordon: sure. an engineering board |
| 22:04.53 | freemangordon | Estel_: end of 2009 |
| 22:04.53 | Estel_ | btw pi is something different that it was planned to be |
| 22:04.57 | freemangordon | Macer: no |
| 22:04.58 | jacekowski | a lot of people bought pi just because it was cheap |
| 22:05.00 | Macer | learning board |
| 22:05.04 | Macer | i guess |
| 22:05.06 | Estel_ | for kids |
| 22:05.07 | Macer | instructional educational |
| 22:05.11 | Estel_ | including UK goverment support |
| 22:05.12 | SpeedEvil | Pi is basically completely boring hardware. |
| 22:05.13 | jacekowski | i bought pi to run xbmc on it |
| 22:05.20 | Macer | SpeedEvil: yes it is |
| 22:05.23 | SpeedEvil | There is nothing whatsoever interesting about the hardware. |
| 22:05.26 | Macer | the only reason people got a pi |
| 22:05.28 | Macer | and it is so successful |
| 22:05.32 | Macer | is because of xbmc :) |
| 22:05.33 | SpeedEvil | The only interesting thing is the volume, and the price |
| 22:05.36 | Macer | lets be honest heh |
| 22:05.36 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: but it is playing 1080p :) |
| 22:05.37 | Estel_ | bullshit, frankly |
| 22:05.37 | M4rtinK | also XBMC, at least initially |
| 22:05.40 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: exactly and on the news all the time plus in UK schools all over now |
| 22:05.48 | M4rtinK | haven't got to installing it yet |
| 22:05.51 | Macer | if pi didn't run xbmc and run 1080p video at $40 |
| 22:06.00 | Macer | it would be gone like the n900 :) |
| 22:06.00 | Estel_ | most people bought pi as cheap dev platform for strange projects ;) |
| 22:06.04 | Macer | no longer produced |
| 22:06.05 | M4rtinK | have a 3D printed case for it lying in Prague though :) |
| 22:06.08 | SpeedEvil | Macer: I have actually seen primetime TV on the Pi - before it launched |
| 22:06.10 | Estel_ | Pi cant run DVD |
| 22:06.14 | Estel_ | mpeg2 |
| 22:06.28 | Macer | Estel_: wtf uses mpeg2 nowadays? |
| 22:06.30 | Estel_ | many complains about it, but people haven't stop buying ti because of that |
| 22:06.30 | Macer | lol! |
| 22:06.37 | Macer | is it 1993 again? |
| 22:06.39 | Estel_ | 3/4 of home cinema consumers |
| 22:06.40 | M4rtinK | they added mpeg2 support recently |
| 22:06.53 | Estel_ | M4rtinK, nice to know |
| 22:06.53 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: is it licensed? |
| 22:07.04 | M4rtinK | it is paid |
| 22:07.05 | Estel_ | sure |
| 22:07.09 | M4rtinK | like 3$ ? |
| 22:07.10 | Macer | 3/4 of home cinema consumers? |
| 22:07.16 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: o, thanks |
| 22:07.18 | Macer | use mpeg.....2? |
| 22:07.19 | freemangordon | *ok |
| 22:07.25 | Estel_ | sure, do you think that most consumers use blueray already, lol? |
| 22:07.32 | Macer | uhm |
| 22:07.35 | Estel_ | DVD's are stillmost common |
| 22:07.39 | M4rtinK | I'll get an official link |
| 22:07.39 | Macer | i guess if you count the poor countries you might be correct |
| 22:07.47 | Estel_ | then you live in fake world of what corporations would like you to think :P |
| 22:07.49 | Macer | but in real countries i don't see the need for discs at all |
| 22:08.04 | Estel_ | sure, include all europe in poor countries |
| 22:08.09 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: beagleboard could do XMBC long before Pi, where is beagleboard now? |
| 22:08.12 | freemangordon | Macer: hehe, seems I live in a *real* country then :D |
| 22:08.13 | Estel_ | and half usa |
| 22:08.14 | M4rtinK | http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ |
| 22:08.30 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: i don't remember it being able to handle 1080p/dts at full speed via smb |
| 22:08.35 | Estel_ | blueray is very popular, but people still own dvd+ that they dont plan to throw out |
| 22:08.37 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: i'd have bought one if it did |
| 22:08.41 | freemangordon | Macer: we need nor DVDs neither Blueray |
| 22:08.49 | M4rtinK | so the only remaining problem should be the 10bit encodes that are recently showing up :) |
| 22:09.02 | sixwheeledbeast | marketing...marketing = pi's sucess |
| 22:09.09 | Macer | i disagree |
| 22:09.10 | Estel_ | anyway, Macer, you know what the funny thing is about your way of thinking? |
| 22:09.16 | M4rtinK | also standard definition DVB-T is MPEG2 IIRC |
| 22:09.18 | Macer | i can't see a show about "wow! kids can learn to solder" |
| 22:09.20 | SpeedEvil | Macer: Are you in the UK? |
| 22:09.23 | Macer | it sounds like an infomercial |
| 22:09.24 | Macer | lol |
| 22:09.33 | Estel_ | 3/4 of people talking here now got mobile deivce with super-duper hardware |
| 22:09.35 | Estel_ | 1 GB of ram |
| 22:09.37 | Estel_ | etc |
| 22:09.42 | Estel_ | gathering dust ;) |
| 22:09.46 | SpeedEvil | Macer: In the UK, the media coverage of the Pi was quite astonishing |
| 22:09.50 | Estel_ | while N900 is still in daily use |
| 22:09.54 | freemangordon | Macer: Pi is the thing to be used in UK Schools for PC |
| 22:09.54 | M4rtinK | Lumia 800 :D |
| 22:10.06 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: IT's basically not. |
| 22:10.11 | Macer | freemangordon: that would be awesome |
| 22:10.14 | SpeedEvil | Other than in small numbers. |
| 22:10.16 | Macer | i considered making pi workstations |
| 22:10.17 | Estel_ | M4rtinK, dvb-t is mpeg2 in germany, for example |
| 22:10.18 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: this is what I know |
| 22:10.26 | Estel_ | Poland and uk have it mpeg4 |
| 22:10.30 | M4rtinK | probably same here (CZ) |
| 22:10.41 | Estel_ | M4rtinK, I thought about N950 |
| 22:10.47 | Estel_ | but lumia or whatever |
| 22:10.56 | Estel_ | my family members used to use androids |
| 22:10.58 | M4rtinK | I use my N950 for Nemo |
| 22:11.13 | Estel_ | all switched to N900, just due to noticing what I can achieve with it |
| 22:11.19 | M4rtinK | quite a lot foster than N900 for it |
| 22:11.21 | Estel_ | from tech-hippies to my mother |
| 22:11.33 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: from wikipedia - "The Raspberry Pi is a credit-card-sized single-board computer developed in the UK by the Raspberry Pi Foundation with the intention of promoting the teaching of basic computer science in schools.[" |
| 22:11.36 | jacekowski | dvb-t was originally mpeg2 only |
| 22:11.47 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: right - intention. |
| 22:11.53 | jacekowski | and it still, is, h264 is a hack using parts of dvb-t2 specification |
| 22:11.54 | freemangordon | SpeedEvil: aah, ok :) |
| 22:11.57 | Estel_ | marketing and knowledge :) people don't know, most of the times, that possibility of having real mobile computer in pocket, is real |
| 22:12.06 | Estel_ | because big companies make smartphones, not computers |
| 22:12.37 | jacekowski | sixwheeledbeast: beagleboard had no marketing |
| 22:12.38 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: the actual number in schools is really small - simply as the teachers aren't there. |
| 22:12.56 | jacekowski | sixwheeledbeast: and beagleboard costs 4x as much, and bb has no hdmi |
| 22:13.00 | sixwheeledbeast | jacekowski: exactly |
| 22:13.02 | Estel_ | if Nokia would properly use Community interest and achievement with N900, and cooperate with opening things that could be open, they would rule the market ages ago |
| 22:13.41 | Estel_ | not to mention being sucessfuly with new devices, and loved as FOSS friendly company ;) |
| 22:13.43 | sixwheeledbeast | cost is a small factor I agree |
| 22:13.43 | jacekowski | Macer: and marketing wise |
| 22:13.49 | jacekowski | Macer: i've heard about rpi, everywhere |
| 22:14.02 | Estel_ | thing is that invisible hand of market isn't so powerful as some people would like it to be |
| 22:14.15 | Estel_ | especially compared to personal interests |
| 22:14.29 | Macer | like the no longer produced n900? :) |
| 22:14.30 | jacekowski | Macer: local electronic shop has them in stock, and you could find a lot stuff about it on the internet |
| 22:14.33 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:14.47 | Estel_ | Macer, well, I don't see how it related to what I've just said |
| 22:14.54 | SpeedEvil | Even if 99.9% of people do boring stuff with them, you've got a really vibrant core community |
| 22:14.55 | jacekowski | Macer: only place you can find out about beagleboard was #maemo |
| 22:15.13 | SpeedEvil | I think I heard about it on #edev |
| 22:15.15 | SpeedEvil | But, ... |
| 22:15.26 | M4rtinK | #beagleboard ? |
| 22:15.28 | Estel_ | thankfully, self-manufacturing changes many things |
| 22:15.39 | jacekowski | if you were to ask people year ago about rpi or bb |
| 22:15.43 | jacekowski | nobody would have heard about bb |
| 22:15.49 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: Unfortunately, self manufacturing can be murderously expensive |
| 22:15.50 | M4rtinK | has 13 people on it :) |
| 22:15.52 | jacekowski | and at least few would have heard about rpi |
| 22:15.58 | jacekowski | M4rtinK: #beagle |
| 22:16.02 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, 10 times cheaper than it was 3 years ago |
| 22:16.03 | freemangordon | Estel_: unfortunately one cannot self-manifacture everything |
| 22:16.07 | jacekowski | 23:16 -!- Irssi: #beagle: Total of 162 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 162 normal] |
| 22:16.13 | M4rtinK | oh :) |
| 22:16.14 | Estel_ | although generally, I agree |
| 22:16.20 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: No, i's not |
| 22:16.30 | M4rtinK | freemangordon: not yet :) |
| 22:16.31 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, tell me more, I own CNC machine myself, self made :P |
| 22:16.38 | Estel_ | I know about costs etc |
| 22:16.42 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt |
| 22:16.55 | Estel_ | I know how much 3D printer was costing 3 years ago |
| 22:16.56 | freemangordon | M4rtinK: 3d printers? :) |
| 22:16.59 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: 0.1% core community is not enough to make profit |
| 22:17.01 | Estel_ | and how cheaply can it be done now |
| 22:17.06 | M4rtinK | freemangordon: yep |
| 22:17.09 | Estel_ | btw by self-manufacturing I mean whole idea |
| 22:17.21 | M4rtinK | every conference I attended in the last year had at leas one :D |
| 22:17.25 | SpeedEvil | 3d printers are rather different. |
| 22:17.28 | M4rtinK | *least |
| 22:17.32 | Estel_ | like, people funding games they like via kickstarter, in ammounts of n 000 000 dollars per game |
| 22:17.46 | M4rtinK | yeah, but already quite useful :) |
| 22:17.49 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, ah, sure, electronic is still fckn expensive |
| 22:18.06 | jacekowski | software is cheap to develop |
| 22:18.10 | Estel_ | may change with 3d printers being able to print circuits ;) |
| 22:18.16 | jacekowski | n900 is 12 layer board iirc |
| 22:18.17 | freemangordon | jacekowski: is it? |
| 22:18.20 | SpeedEvil | ]]#########]' |
| 22:18.29 | jacekowski | freemangordon: compared to hardware |
| 22:18.30 | freemangordon | jacekowski: (cheap SW) |
| 22:18.36 | jacekowski | freemangordon: where you need SW + HW |
| 22:18.54 | freemangordon | jacekowski: hmm, last time I've check that was on the opposite |
| 22:18.57 | jacekowski | and with HW if you get things wrong, you can't fix them |
| 22:18.58 | Estel_ | I think he mean everything, including projects etc |
| 22:19.05 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Plus wierd flex stuff. |
| 22:19.24 | jacekowski | you end up with 1000s of boards that can be thrown away |
| 22:19.25 | sixwheeledbeast | wut, 12 layers really? |
| 22:19.34 | jacekowski | sixwheeledbeast: yes |
| 22:19.41 | Estel_ | as said, look at gaming company. EA and other "evil empire" bullshit companies are spltting castrated games... |
| 22:19.44 | SpeedEvil | I can believe it. If you want to get dense BGAs on both sides of the board. |
| 22:19.57 | jacekowski | bb is 12 layers |
| 22:19.59 | Estel_ | While witcher sell millions copies, starting from almost nothing |
| 22:20.14 | Estel_ | widelands 2 is entirely finances via kickstarter before even getting produced |
| 22:20.31 | Estel_ | and i talk about 2 000 000 dollars, not 100 bucks |
| 22:20.33 | jacekowski | anyways, hardware is much harder and expensive to produce |
| 22:20.50 | jacekowski | imagine HW company releasing hardware with bugs like you get in software |
| 22:20.53 | Estel_ | it's kind of self-manufacturing to, based on trust... crowdfunding, as they call it |
| 22:21.00 | freemangordon | jacekowski: TI? |
| 22:21.11 | jacekowski | sending an "update" doubles their costs |
| 22:21.19 | Macer | jacekowski: like simcity? :) |
| 22:21.20 | freemangordon | jacekowski: AMD, Intel... |
| 22:21.20 | Macer | heh |
| 22:21.29 | jacekowski | freemangordon: like what? |
| 22:21.34 | jacekowski | fpdiv bug in intel ages ago |
| 22:21.36 | Estel_ | freemangordon, but when talking about HW cost, you need to include design |
| 22:21.37 | jacekowski | and it did cost them |
| 22:21.39 | Estel_ | producing machines |
| 22:21.40 | Estel_ | etc |
| 22:21.42 | Macer | amazon quit sending out simcity heh |
| 22:21.46 | Estel_ | not net cost of board |
| 22:22.03 | Macer | i don't understand why they'd make simcity a constantly connected mmo anyways |
| 22:22.05 | freemangordon | AMD and phenom, intel and pentium fdiv bug, TI and all ARM erratas |
| 22:22.05 | jacekowski | and test runs |
| 22:22.49 | Macer | freemangordon: the real question is.. would they have even said anything if they weren't discovered? |
| 22:22.57 | freemangordon | jacekowski: I am not actually arguing, just sayng that shit happens on HW side too |
| 22:22.58 | Estel_ | freemangordon, + look at what we have with linux/GNU, and how young is open hardware |
| 22:23.02 | Estel_ | it's all because of costs |
| 22:23.31 | jacekowski | freemangordon: i'm saying that HW bug costs a lot more to fix, so there is a lot less of those |
| 22:23.37 | SpeedEvil | Open hardware designs were around in 1980 |
| 22:23.39 | Estel_ | hardware is more complicated to self develop, thus more costly |
| 22:23.41 | Macer | i don't know. i think hardware is a bit different heh |
| 22:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Or earlier |
| 22:23.50 | Macer | the problem with awesome open hardware is china |
| 22:23.52 | jacekowski | look at openpandora |
| 22:23.53 | Macer | they will replicate it to death |
| 22:24.00 | Macer | and knock it off as well |
| 22:24.04 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, you're right, I mean ammount of influence open software have, over open hardware |
| 22:24.12 | jacekowski | https://www.dragonbox.de/en/16-pandora |
| 22:24.21 | jacekowski | https://www.dragonbox.de/en/main-consoles-and-upgrades/112-pandora-1ghz.html |
| 22:24.27 | SpeedEvil | Open software was big before the IBM breakup |
| 22:24.28 | jacekowski | 539 eur for arm based device |
| 22:24.29 | freemangordon | hardware is way harder not to say impossible fo individuals to produce |
| 22:24.34 | SpeedEvil | It only really closed after |
| 22:24.44 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: isn't the point that it's open so there no point copying? |
| 22:24.47 | jacekowski | while company like sony sells their psv for half of that |
| 22:24.53 | jacekowski | and they still make profit on it |
| 22:25.10 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: There is a nutter in ##electronics DIYing his own large FPGA boards, and making his own chips (or starting on that route) |
| 22:25.11 | Estel_ | ...and people still love pandora due to being as open as it gets :) |
| 22:25.32 | M4rtinK | <offtopic>modRana work on OpenPanodra :)</offtopic> |
| 22:25.36 | SpeedEvil | freemangordon: azonberg - awesome effort. |
| 22:25.40 | M4rtinK | *works |
| 22:25.42 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, I wonder how he achieved it? |
| 22:25.42 | jacekowski | Estel_: and they've sold like 5 of those |
| 22:25.52 | jacekowski | Estel_: probably not even that much |
| 22:25.53 | Estel_ | jacekowski, what? |
| 22:25.56 | Estel_ | Pandora was all sold |
| 22:25.59 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: toaster oven |
| 22:26.00 | Estel_ | even before geting alive |
| 22:26.08 | Estel_ | then next batches were create 3 or 4 times |
| 22:26.09 | jacekowski | how many did they sell in total |
| 22:26.32 | Estel_ | IDK, as for project with 0 as in 0 marketing, they sold thousands afaik |
| 22:26.42 | Estel_ | they published info some time ago |
| 22:26.51 | Estel_ | don't want to lie, but it was 5k total? |
| 22:27.07 | Estel_ | and consider how ridicolously overpriced it is |
| 22:27.25 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, hm |
| 22:27.31 | jacekowski | sony sold 100s as many PSVs in one day |
| 22:27.33 | Estel_ | I wonder how expensive toaster oven is to DIY |
| 22:27.34 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 22:27.40 | jacekowski | 160k in one day |
| 22:27.45 | Estel_ | jacekowskop, comparing grapples to oranges? |
| 22:27.49 | freemangordon | Estel_: shouldn;t be that nuch :) |
| 22:27.55 | freemangordon | *much |
| 22:28.01 | jacekowski | Estel_: pandora is sold as a gaming hardware |
| 22:28.03 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: I am actually planning on DIYing a toaster oven, because existing ones annoy me. |
| 22:28.25 | Estel_ | jacekowski, it is like I would finish my alu body replacement project, and start to compare sales with mugen covers or otterboxes |
| 22:28.27 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: Energy efficiency sucks, and they take way too long to come up to temperature. |
| 22:28.31 | XDS2010 | How do i delete the amazon icon from my n900 ? |
| 22:28.45 | XDS2010 | Estel_: i finally got backup menu installed |
| 22:28.55 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: How were you planning to do the antannae? |
| 22:29.04 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, interesting... I need to finish my cnc related projects, then build 3D printer, then toaster oven sounds like natural next... :P |
| 22:29.29 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, connecting it to parts of body that are alu and separate from rest of body |
| 22:29.37 | Estel_ | although, visually, monolitic |
| 22:29.58 | Estel_ | you know, re-doing build in antennas, just using bigger and better due to it touching air on outside |
| 22:30.01 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: you mean seprate sections of the case to form the antennae? |
| 22:30.03 | sixwheeledbeast | potential iphone 4 issue? |
| 22:30.05 | Estel_ | yea |
| 22:30.14 | SpeedEvil | That's going to be a whole heap of pain |
| 22:30.24 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, tested it all in 4nec and now doing real life tests and fixes every few days |
| 22:30.28 | Estel_ | it is |
| 22:30.40 | SpeedEvil | The 'best' way to approach it would probably be to do really good simulations. |
| 22:30.44 | SpeedEvil | 4nec? |
| 22:30.46 | Estel_ | but something *** made me tol promise alu body :P |
| 22:30.53 | Estel_ | antenna simulator |
| 22:30.58 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 22:31.04 | Estel_ | open source one ;) |
| 22:31.14 | Estel_ | well, personally I see wood body much better |
| 22:31.17 | SpeedEvil | For BT/wifi/all frequencies of cellular? |
| 22:31.22 | Estel_ | if you use correct wood and coloring |
| 22:31.28 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, yea |
| 22:31.36 | Estel_ | but cellular is separate one |
| 22:31.49 | SpeedEvil | FM? :) |
| 22:31.58 | Estel_ | s/cellular/gps/ |
| 22:32.07 | Estel_ | no, I'm not doing one for fm receiver .P |
| 22:32.10 | SpeedEvil | Oh, I forgot GPS |
| 22:32.14 | Estel_ | headset is working ok |
| 22:32.25 | freemangordon | Estel_: what about TX? |
| 22:32.36 | Estel_ | freemangordon, of course working, but this one is less picky |
| 22:32.42 | freemangordon | iirc it is not shared with BT |
| 22:32.51 | Estel_ | works better than vanilla even just being connected to any alu brick outside |
| 22:32.57 | Estel_ | no, fm is separate |
| 22:33.00 | Estel_ | fm tx |
| 22:33.15 | XDS2010 | Estel_: got backupmenu finally installed |
| 22:33.22 | XDS2010 | thank you for all your help |
| 22:33.26 | Estel_ | for sure fmtx in replacement body will work better than vanilla :) |
| 22:33.32 | Estel_ | XDS2010, nice to hear, saw it |
| 22:33.36 | XDS2010 | i really appreciate it |
| 22:33.37 | Estel_ | I'm glad you've made it |
| 22:33.57 | XDS2010 | Estel_: what are your thoughts here ? should i sell ? |
| 22:33.59 | Estel_ | freemangordon, BTW, doing separate connector for external antenna for fmtx is easy too |
| 22:34.07 | XDS2010 | :-/ im so torn! |
| 22:34.12 | XDS2010 | :( |
| 22:34.17 | Estel_ | XDS2010, you've lost me on that one? sell what? |
| 22:34.24 | XDS2010 | my n900 |
| 22:34.37 | XDS2010 | the iphone is so cool |
| 22:34.39 | Estel_ | if it's malfunctioning, sure, and buy used one that works :) |
| 22:34.42 | Estel_ | lol? |
| 22:34.56 | Estel_ | if you think iphone is cool, then you may think about selling N900 indeed |
| 22:35.00 | XDS2010 | its not malfunctioning i need the money man |
| 22:35.07 | *** join/#maemo iweron (54341e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.52.30.130) |
| 22:35.08 | Estel_ | so why asking me? :P |
| 22:35.13 | Estel_ | ask yourself what you want |
| 22:35.20 | XDS2010 | i am so torn |
| 22:35.21 | Estel_ | I would sell iphone for sure ;) |
| 22:35.36 | XDS2010 | sell iphone ? |
| 22:35.46 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~Sysaxed@82.131.47.44.cable.starman.ee) |
| 22:35.51 | Estel_ | if you need money... ;) |
| 22:35.56 | XDS2010 | Estel_: the thing is im just now realizing just how good the n900 is |
| 22:36.01 | Estel_ | look, I'm not good advisor here, for me iphone is pathetic |
| 22:36.16 | Sysaxed | what is the question :D |
| 22:36.18 | Estel_ | XDS2010, maybe you've made first step into bigger, more beautiful world :P |
| 22:36.24 | XDS2010 | i didn't know you could schedule events based on if or not the keyboard and lens cover where opened |
| 22:36.43 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: weather i should sell my n900 |
| 22:36.44 | Estel_ | you can do with ith basically anything that could be done with linux desktop pc |
| 22:36.53 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, oh why? |
| 22:37.00 | Estel_ | I tyink Sysaxed was asking rhetorically :) |
| 22:37.09 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: i want an iphone i wanna be cool |
| 22:37.18 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, are you kidding me? |
| 22:37.25 | XDS2010 | no |
| 22:37.26 | Estel_ | I feel like being trolled by someone on purpose ):< |
| 22:37.35 | Sysaxed | Estel_, exactly |
| 22:37.41 | XDS2010 | Estel_: im not trolling man |
| 22:37.47 | Estel_ | but I'm afraid he is serious, and that is worse |
| 22:37.53 | XDS2010 | im so torn why are you mocking me ? |
| 22:38.08 | Estel_ | freemangordon, btw, bulding own fm transmitter with 1W power is super easy and cheap... |
| 22:38.25 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@248.71.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:38.30 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: im just now realizing just how good the n900 is |
| 22:38.34 | Estel_ | but idea of having N900 with external antenna connected to FMTX and pirate radio station is still cool to much to skip it ;) |
| 22:38.43 | XDS2010 | i can do things with it i can't do on a iphone |
| 22:38.48 | Estel_ | definitelly |
| 22:38.52 | freemangordon | XDS2010: orly? |
| 22:38.56 | Sysaxed | for example.. multitasking |
| 22:38.58 | Estel_ | choose your own path through the force :P |
| 22:39.02 | Sysaxed | real one |
| 22:39.10 | XDS2010 | freemangordon: huh? |
| 22:39.20 | Estel_ | he was ironic, you know :) |
| 22:39.26 | freemangordon | :) |
| 22:39.31 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, it's just weird for us to compare n900 to iphone |
| 22:39.32 | Estel_ | here, fact that you can do more things with N900 is quite natural |
| 22:39.36 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: well multitasking on a phone is kinda passe |
| 22:39.45 | Estel_ | 0_o |
| 22:39.51 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: why ? it has some similar hardware |
| 22:39.56 | Estel_ | I'm going to eat something, definitelly |
| 22:40.02 | XDS2010 | the GPU is similar |
| 22:40.09 | Estel_ | 0_o aaa! |
| 22:40.21 | iweron | Hello everybody |
| 22:40.23 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, hardware does not matter |
| 22:40.28 | iweron | I have a problem with my n900 D: |
| 22:40.40 | XDS2010 | iweron: shoot! |
| 22:40.46 | XDS2010 | ..not to low |
| 22:40.47 | Estel_ | we're glad that now with iphone |
| 22:40.50 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, well it matters.. Iphone lacks fm transmitter, infrared port and a keyboard.. |
| 22:40.53 | XDS2010 | :P |
| 22:40.53 | Estel_ | s/now/not/ |
| 22:41.48 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: the IR on the n900 is only tx, fm will probably be done later with a hack, and the keyboard is really passey for me |
| 22:42.01 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: i have BlinQ for IR |
| 22:42.32 | Estel_ | fm wull be done? wtf are you talking about? |
| 22:42.35 | Estel_ | will* |
| 22:42.53 | Sysaxed | with a hack? what? what? |
| 22:42.56 | Estel_ | hey, you feel bad having keyboard? interesting case. |
| 22:43.04 | Estel_ | start taking notes |
| 22:43.12 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: you should lead with , It has a lighted keyboard, FM and RDS support OOTB, all movements with the device can be keymapped. And its well designed |
| 22:43.16 | iweron | the problem with battery. In fact there is broken wifi in my n900, so I have to unload wifi drivers, otherwise I will get a kernel panic. But wifi module also consumes a lot of battery power, so my phone discharges every 6-8 hours |
| 22:43.19 | Estel_ | ...and /me brings microscope for dna analysis |
| 22:43.24 | iweron | this is weird |
| 22:43.30 | iweron | what to do? =\ |
| 22:44.05 | Estel_ | iweron, I don't udnerstand a single thing from that |
| 22:44.11 | Estel_ | one problem at a time please |
| 22:44.20 | Estel_ | what's wrong with wifi? |
| 22:44.22 | XDS2010 | Estel_: i have big fingers it actually hurts to type with the keyboard |
| 22:44.24 | iweron | dunno |
| 22:44.56 | XDS2010 | iweron: if you don't have any user data on the device you could flash |
| 22:45.25 | XDS2010 | which is probably what im going to need to do soon too |
| 22:45.39 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, it wont help |
| 22:45.45 | sixwheeledbeast | iwron: like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85701 |
| 22:45.46 | iweron | the main problem: my device discharges from the full battery to 0% in 6 hours |
| 22:46.00 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: are you going to think less of me if i jump ship ? |
| 22:46.07 | XDS2010 | :-/ |
| 22:46.16 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, just answered your question |
| 22:46.17 | iweron | acually wlan never worked |
| 22:46.21 | Sysaxed | suggestion* really |
| 22:46.21 | sixwheeledbeast | s/iwron:/iweron/ |
| 22:46.32 | kerio | iweron: reflash |
| 22:46.38 | iweron | already |
| 22:46.39 | iweron | 5 times |
| 22:46.44 | kerio | ok, stop reflashing |
| 22:46.45 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: really WHY!!!!! |
| 22:46.51 | iweron | :D |
| 22:47.01 | kerio | iweron: hardware problem |
| 22:47.03 | kerio | sucks 2 be u |
| 22:47.05 | XDS2010 | i love you guys? |
| 22:47.17 | XDS2010 | :( |
| 22:47.30 | iweron | like this |
| 22:47.30 | iweron | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81760 |
| 22:47.36 | iweron | the same problem |
| 22:47.46 | XDS2010 | Sysaxed: i mean look where the hell blackberry ended up. They are using Qtx for pete sake |
| 22:47.51 | iweron | but, I can live without a wifi since 3G works |
| 22:48.00 | XDS2010 | Thats some of the same systems that are used in the space shuttle |
| 22:48.08 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, oh come on, I just don't care :) |
| 22:48.23 | iweron | the main problem is that battery lives only 6 hours |
| 22:48.26 | XDS2010 | to hell with you then! |
| 22:48.29 | XDS2010 | :P |
| 22:48.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | "the doctor is: 04here01" |
| 22:48.45 | kerio | iweron: so buy a new battery |
| 22:48.50 | XDS2010 | Doctor doctor! |
| 22:48.51 | kerio | oh, this channel isn't +c? |
| 22:48.54 | iweron | I have 4 batteries |
| 22:48.59 | XDS2010 | should i sell !? |
| 22:49.01 | iweron | one original nokia |
| 22:49.04 | kerio | iweron: combine them |
| 22:49.08 | iweron | =\ |
| 22:49.18 | kerio | it's actually possible :) |
| 22:49.25 | Sysaxed | kerio, what a suggestion... |
| 22:49.33 | kerio | but really, but a serious battery |
| 22:49.36 | kerio | like a polarcell |
| 22:49.39 | XDS2010 | ok how do i delete all my data without flashing ? |
| 22:49.40 | kerio | *buy |
| 22:49.49 | iweron | I change batteries every 6 hours and use another nokia phone to charge discharged ones |
| 22:49.51 | XDS2010 | every bit of user data |
| 22:50.03 | Sysaxed | kerio, what about carrying a diesel generator with you |
| 22:50.35 | Sysaxed | no seriously... |
| 22:50.42 | Estel_ | iweron, |
| 22:50.44 | kerio | iweron: what the fuck dude |
| 22:50.48 | Estel_ | powertop output please |
| 22:50.52 | XDS2010 | kerio: get a solio or a energizer to go kit, the black one |
| 22:50.53 | sixwheeledbeast | iweron: dmsg, powertop, top; outputs? |
| 22:50.56 | Estel_ | ~spank kerio |
| 22:50.56 | infobot | ACTION bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks. |
| 22:50.56 | iweron | maybe I should buy a tritium battery |
| 22:51.14 | XDS2010 | i have the ENG kit its slick and very stylish |
| 22:51.18 | Estel_ | kerio why making jokes olf him instead of asking for top powertop output |
| 22:51.26 | Sysaxed | ^ |
| 22:51.35 | Estel_ | XDS2010, sell both phones and go rethink your life |
| 22:51.51 | Estel_ | come back when you stop thinking that having this or that device model makes you cool or not |
| 22:52.25 | XDS2010 | Estel_: but i wanna be with the cool kids :( |
| 22:52.29 | XDS2010 | :P |
| 22:52.36 | Estel_ | and stop trolling me :P |
| 22:52.38 | Sysaxed | XDS2010, there was a nice thread about it! |
| 22:52.48 | XDS2010 | ? |
| 22:52.53 | XDS2010 | link? |
| 22:53.01 | iweron | I made some tests with powertop and compared them to my friend's outputs, I have less wakeups and 97% - 250 MHz |
| 22:53.29 | Sysaxed | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70390 |
| 22:53.31 | kerio | you don't want to be at 250mhz |
| 22:53.32 | sixwheeledbeast | pastebin the full output "sudo powertop" |
| 22:53.34 | kerio | you want to be at 0 |
| 22:54.02 | iweron | ok, wait a min |
| 22:54.02 | sixwheeledbeast | screen off and flight mode pref. |
| 22:54.19 | sixwheeledbeast | oh and not on charge :rolleyes: |
| 22:54.58 | iweron | kerio, should I change configs for min freq? |
| 22:55.05 | kerio | you should stay with stock |
| 22:55.08 | Sysaxed | no |
| 22:55.49 | iweron | stock is 250-600 |
| 22:55.53 | iweron | minmax |
| 22:56.03 | iweron | so there is no 0 |
| 22:56.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | INCREDIBLE!!!!! >><Estel_> and stop trolling me :P << |
| 22:56.26 | sixwheeledbeast | iweron: yes but 0 is idle |
| 22:56.52 | iweron | how to save powertop output? |
| 22:57.19 | Estel_ | oh, Doc is here, do we have a psychiatrist around? :P |
| 22:57.22 | freemangordon | iweron: powertop > powerto.log |
| 22:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | redirect stdout? |
| 22:57.43 | Estel_ | iweron, we know better than there is 0 |
| 22:57.47 | Estel_ | just do powertop |
| 22:57.54 | Estel_ | and zerobin it |
| 22:58.13 | Estel_ | else as freemangordon said, or via copy and paste from terminal to zerobin |
| 22:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | >/bin/zero ? |
| 22:58.18 | Estel_ | :P |
| 22:58.26 | Estel_ | LMGTFY zerobin :P |
| 22:59.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | powertop|pastebinit; won't work due to timeout, eh? |
| 22:59.47 | Estel_ | ~lmgtfy |
| 22:59.48 | infobot | rumour has it, lmgtfy is http://lmgtfy.com/ |
| 22:59.59 | Estel_ | infobot need pluging to lmgtfy'ing phrases |
| 23:00.04 | Estel_ | ~lmgtfy zerobin |
| 23:00.05 | infobot | ACTION thinks you should look here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=zerobin |
| 23:00.08 | Estel_ | o |
| 23:00.15 | Estel_ | this is it! |
| 23:00.18 | Estel_ | ~botsnack |
| 23:00.18 | infobot | aw, gee, Estel_ |
| 23:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng lmgtfy tried to place ~150 cookies to me |
| 23:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have "cookies: ask" |
| 23:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | >:-/ |
| 23:03.15 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: is there an easy way to wipe out my user data off my n900 |
| 23:03.20 | XDS2010 | ? |
| 23:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, do a full reflash |
| 23:03.46 | XDS2010 | without doing a flash |
| 23:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, if you want better answer, ask better more detailed question |
| 23:04.02 | XDS2010 | i want to keeyp apps |
| 23:04.16 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: you're right my bad |
| 23:04.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what exactly do you want to delete? |
| 23:05.09 | freemangordon | XDS2010: got to settings, in the menu there is a button "clear" |
| 23:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | $userdata is a really fuzzy term |
| 23:05.20 | XDS2010 | stuff like wifi passwords, preferences, anything personal really |
| 23:05.44 | freemangordon | try it, no idea what it will do, but I guess it will clean contacts, mails, messages and such |
| 23:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | make a backup with builtin backup app, then try what freemangordon suggested |
| 23:06.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are it will break your system, so in the end you'll reflash anyway, and then restore apps from backup |
| 23:06.48 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: freemangordon i made a backup with Backupmenu (bootmenu) with the slide open keyboard on boot option and also backed up the my docs folder |
| 23:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you got nothing to lose when you try whatever you feel might do it for you |
| 23:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | since you got a *full* beckup |
| 23:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | check what's your kernel though |
| 23:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM backups can only get restored to same kernel they were taken under |
| 23:08.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | undertaken?? ;-P |
| 23:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels like an undertaker |
| 23:10.13 | iweron | http://pastebin.com/yN7xDGvH |
| 23:10.15 | iweron | powertop |
| 23:10.17 | Estel_ | XDS2010, this guy use N900: |
| 23:10.19 | Estel_ | http://deus-ex.com.pl/files/deusex.jpg |
| 23:10.28 | XDS2010 | whats the default unlock code ? |
| 23:10.31 | Estel_ | and this guy use iphone: |
| 23:10.32 | Estel_ | http://sixgun.org/files/leisure-suit-larry.jpg |
| 23:10.37 | Estel_ | which one you want to be? :P |
| 23:10.43 | Estel_ | XDS2010, 12345 |
| 23:10.48 | Estel_ | could figured that yourself |
| 23:11.37 | Estel_ | iweron, your powertop looks ok |
| 23:11.40 | Estel_ | try deleting all widgets |
| 23:11.44 | Estel_ | and check if that helps |
| 23:11.50 | Estel_ | with power usage |
| 23:11.55 | XDS2010 | ok looks like it worked |
| 23:11.57 | Estel_ | if not, maybe your battery is eol? |
| 23:12.01 | iweron | Already done |
| 23:12.05 | iweron | I desktop |
| 23:12.08 | iweron | no widgets |
| 23:12.11 | iweron | one* |
| 23:12.13 | Estel_ | iweron, no idea wtf |
| 23:12.34 | freemangordon | iweron: how old are your batteries? |
| 23:12.35 | Estel_ | hardware issue? you said you've reflashed |
| 23:12.45 | iweron | yeah |
| 23:12.50 | Estel_ | iweron, get bq27200.sh |
| 23:13.02 | Estel_ | make sure you have bq27x00_battery module unloaded |
| 23:13.07 | Estel_ | then invoke from terminal |
| 23:13.12 | Estel_ | bq27200.sh 5 |
| 23:13.31 | Estel_ | (I need to finally finish my reqrite of bq27200.sh to work with bq27x00_battery module in loop mode) |
| 23:13.35 | Estel_ | no, wait |
| 23:13.42 | Estel_ | do bq27200.sh 30 actually |
| 23:13.48 | Estel_ | then disable everything |
| 23:13.53 | Estel_ | and loks device for 5 mins |
| 23:14.02 | Estel_ | then paste output |
| 23:14.04 | iweron | original nokia is 2 year old, another one is half of a year, and two others ~ one year old |
| 23:14.11 | Estel_ | next, do same thing without disabling things |
| 23:14.21 | Estel_ | i.e normal connection |
| 23:14.24 | Estel_ | phone locked, etc |
| 23:14.27 | Estel_ | output here |
| 23:14.34 | freemangordon | iweron: where did you get those "new" ones? are they original? |
| 23:14.43 | Estel_ | last bt not least, do same while keeping screen on, but not doing much other things |
| 23:14.46 | Estel_ | and paste output |
| 23:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | iweron: that powertop looks pretty good |
| 23:14.59 | Estel_ | it will tell us your standby, idle, and screen on power usage |
| 23:15.07 | Estel_ | if that is ok, then you got crappy battery |
| 23:15.10 | Estel_ | like 400 mAh |
| 23:15.35 | Estel_ | bq27200.sh in loop 30 will tell us your real power usage every 30 seconds |
| 23:15.38 | iweron | nokia is original, others are bought from shops and ebay. i tested them on other n900 device, they worked for 3-4 days |
| 23:15.52 | Estel_ | iweron, so do as I've described |
| 23:16.01 | iweron | Do I already have this bq27200 on my phone or I have to dw it? |
| 23:16.07 | Estel_ | either something is sucking power without affecting powertop output, or hardware issue |
| 23:16.49 | iweron | What do you mean disable everything? Flight mode? |
| 23:16.51 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, mind sharing him link to bq27200.sh? |
| 23:16.54 | Estel_ | yea |
| 23:16.59 | Estel_ | for 1st test only |
| 23:17.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq27200 |
| 23:17.04 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 |
| 23:17.17 | Estel_ | also, install i2c-tools from devel |
| 23:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq27200.sh is in same folder |
| 23:17.27 | Estel_ | as bq27200.sh require i2cget |
| 23:18.11 | iweron | my wifi doesn't work - hw issue and now I don't have 3G |
| 23:18.14 | iweron | :) |
| 23:18.17 | iweron | maybe deb? |
| 23:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sucking power without powertop noticing it? CMT! |
| 23:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | switch to flight mode |
| 23:18.40 | XDS2010 | ~mirros |
| 23:18.47 | XDS2010 | ~mirrors |
| 23:18.47 | infobot | mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 23:19.11 | *** join/#maemo eijk__ (~eijk@e178205179.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | iweron: run `powertop;bq27200.sh 30 ` on normal device, with no charger attached, no special modes, just screen locked, for ~5 minutes. then pastebin the output |
| 23:21.34 | iweron | okay |
| 23:23.26 | *** join/#maemo arcean_ (~arcean@aael57.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:23.47 | *** part/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) |
| 23:27.59 | *** join/#maemo m` (~user@cable-static-225-99.teleport.ch) |
| 23:30.11 | *** join/#maemo foo` (~user@cable-static-225-99.teleport.ch) |
| 23:31.39 | foo` | ? |
| 23:33.03 | iweron | now running it |
| 23:34.37 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 23:42.19 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@248.71.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 23:43.56 | iweron | should I stop bq27200 manually? |
| 23:44.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^C |
| 23:44.13 | iweron | к |
| 23:44.16 | iweron | kk |
| 23:44.41 | Estel_ | if you want answer about #evice with issues, do those 3 simple tests I've requsted |
| 23:45.24 | Estel_ | powertop tell about cpu related things, and many other hardware parts may suck power, not necessarily waking cpu |
| 23:45.57 | Estel_ | but first, we need to filter out it being anything from system side, or hardware problem |
| 23:46.32 | iweron | bq with normal settings is ready |
| 23:46.36 | Estel_ | bq27200.sh will tell us your power draw, as low as it goes. If something suck mAh without bq27200.sh showing it, it will be at level of hardware short |
| 23:46.45 | Estel_ | on device with issues? |
| 23:46.48 | Estel_ | and define normal |
| 23:46.51 | Estel_ | screen on/off? |
| 23:46.55 | iweron | off |
| 23:47.00 | Estel_ | 3G on/off? cellular? |
| 23:47.12 | Estel_ | connected or just logged in to network |
| 23:47.17 | Estel_ | no other things working? |
| 23:47.37 | iweron | 3g off, just logged to network, flight off, wifi off/unloaded |
| 23:47.42 | Estel_ | ok, now flight mode and everything disabled, and last one will be with screen ON and connections normal |
| 23:47.43 | Estel_ | OK |
| 23:47.51 | iweron | okay |
| 23:48.49 | Estel_ | we will compare state where it should eat 3-4 mA (all disabled), 7-10 mA (just logged in to gsm, but screen and connections off) and one with screen on (100-200 mA, depending on if you keep screen on by touching it, or by things like simple brigthness widget - the latter consumes less) |
| 23:49.30 | Estel_ | if we notice unusual high usage on any of those modes - especially twp with screen off - then we will know that something is sucking power and bq27x00 hardware know about it, but cpu doesn't |
| 23:50.04 | Estel_ | otherwise, it's either battery fault (but you said that those batteries work ok on another N900), or hardware failure on that N900, some power leak in hardware level |
| 23:50.08 | iweron | actually |
| 23:50.34 | iweron | it is even worse that it could be |
| 23:50.52 | iweron | http://pastebin.com/sma442h6 |
| 23:51.37 | iweron | anyway how to turn on flight mode? |
| 23:52.10 | Estel_ | power key-> offline mode |
| 23:52.17 | iweron | k |
| 23:52.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | iweron: hmm? |
| 23:52.41 | *** join/#maemo Sysaxed (~Sysaxed@82.131.47.44.cable.starman.ee) |
| 23:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's worse and why and worse than what? |
| 23:53.08 | Estel_ | look at his pastebin and bq usage |
| 23:53.19 | Estel_ | 90 mA idle device, just connected to gsm and screen off |
| 23:53.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ktnx I did |
| 23:53.20 | iweron | yeah |
| 23:53.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 23:53.46 | Estel_ | very high usage, and reason for battery living only 6h |
| 23:53.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | bs |
| 23:53.53 | Estel_ | but, finish other tests too, pls |
| 23:53.56 | iweron | I see |
| 23:54.00 | iweron | ofc |
| 23:54.02 | Estel_ | will be easier to filter out issue |
| 23:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~1300/90 |
| 23:54.04 | infobot | 14.444444444444 |
| 23:54.14 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, - actual usage |
| 23:54.23 | Estel_ | 14h if he never touches his device |
| 23:54.34 | Estel_ | should be ~1200/10 |
| 23:54.37 | iweron | but I use it every day |
| 23:54.38 | Estel_ | at least thise |
| 23:54.40 | Estel_ | yes |
| 23:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | and 5000h when he recharges in between |
| 23:54.47 | iweron | alot |
| 23:55.01 | Estel_ | iweron, it's ok, but 90 mA when idle is very bad |
| 23:55.10 | iweron | actually, it shows 80-90% at full charge |
| 23:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's not |
| 23:55.15 | Estel_ | yes, it is. |
| 23:55.23 | Sysaxed | it is :C |
| 23:55.28 | Estel_ | especially if bq does measure every 30 seconds, as i requested |
| 23:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually quite within limits with GSM enabled |
| 23:55.40 | Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05, no way |
| 23:55.47 | Estel_ | unless you're with 1p% signal strenght, it's not |
| 23:55.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly with WLAN enabled but not associated |
| 23:56.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sysaxed: aha |
| 23:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: signal strengh is vastly irrelevant |
| 23:56.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | traffic is relevant |
| 23:56.32 | Estel_ | bullshit, as he have wlan disabled and damaged, and, more importantly, proper wifi not associatedd and set to scan every 15 min or so shouldnt result in this |
| 23:56.53 | Estel_ | never, ever, saw such usage for my device with gsm logged in |
| 23:57.00 | Estel_ | heckp, even with connected to gprs |
| 23:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | carrier could have no NAT/firewall and lots of ping or other inbound traffic keeping cmt busy |
| 23:57.06 | iweron | It seems that wifi module unload didn't help |
| 23:57.14 | Estel_ | should be 7-10 mA in ideal case |
| 23:57.30 | Sysaxed | well, I saw such usage.. when something was keeping my cpu alive at high frequencies |
| 23:57.38 | Sysaxed | but that's not the case |
| 23:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, wlan damaged |
| 23:57.49 | Estel_ | iweron, btw, your wifi, how it got damages? It's very rare thing to break |
| 23:57.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | who diagnosed that? YOU? |
| 23:58.02 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, read backscroll |
| 23:58.13 | Estel_ | and hope that your libido will get lower during doing that ;) |
| 23:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, too much of your noise in backscroll |
| 23:58.30 | Estel_ | *shrug* so gtfo |
| 23:58.33 | Sysaxed | stop it, guys |
| 23:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: gtfo yourself |
| 23:58.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can help you if you need |
| 23:58.59 | Sysaxed | guys :C |
| 23:59.09 | iweron | http://pastebin.com/Lm9qNXHi |
| 23:59.15 | iweron | flight mode on |
| 23:59.20 | iweron | screen off |
| 23:59.26 | Sysaxed | It's a first time I see that shit on such a friendly irc channel :\\ |
| 23:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | iweron: sorry i'm out, ask Mr Estel_, I'm sure he'll tell you extremely nifty way to make sure your wlan is damaged |
