| 00:01.09 | XDS2010 | ah i see the error :) |
| 00:01.18 | XDS2010 | checksum mismatch Estel_ |
| 00:01.26 | XDS2010 | hash sum rather |
| 00:01.39 | Estel_ | yea. |
| 00:01.40 | XDS2010 | how do i fix ? |
| 00:01.42 | Estel_ | ~mirrors |
| 00:01.42 | infobot | mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 00:01.46 | XDS2010 | :) |
| 00:01.47 | Estel_ | use latest |
| 00:01.50 | Estel_ | last* |
| 00:01.51 | XDS2010 | k |
| 00:01.56 | Estel_ | extras-devel.merlin etc |
| 00:02.01 | XDS2010 | ty |
| 00:02.19 | XDS2010 | cli to direct ? |
| 00:02.46 | XDS2010 | can i just plugin a direct command to download or do i still need to add them ? |
| 00:07.30 | Macer | Estel_: huh? |
| 00:09.36 | Macer | oh. you mean me asking why there isn't any expansion into other hardware? |
| 00:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Martix: don't get trolled, there's no "xxx hours of coding" time needed to implement a sql db table with filename as primary key and start offset in bytes as second field in the record, then use seek() and write()/read() to get the tile you want. after all it's a grow-only delete-never set of data and sql already gets used. I gather the whole thing takes ~10 lines of code and maybe 30 min max |
| 00:10.14 | Macer | i suppose considering i am not a developer... but it is still a suggestion. or are we to stop giving those too? |
| 00:11.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: I guess it's been -ETAB |
| 00:12.03 | Macer | oh |
| 00:12.08 | Macer | she was talking to someone else heh |
| 00:12.31 | Macer | -ETAB ? |
| 00:12.40 | *** join/#maemo konelix__ (~konelix@190.143.205.161) |
| 00:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | <tab> nick-expansion |
| 00:12.56 | Macer | oh |
| 00:12.57 | Macer | yah |
| 00:13.54 | Macer | when is this new ubuntu phone coming out? |
| 00:14.04 | jacekowski | Estel_: point people towards new rmo when they have hash sums problem |
| 00:14.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: ack |
| 00:14.32 | Macer | http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/ |
| 00:14.37 | Macer | april 2014 lol |
| 00:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: though, is it really working when you use IP instead URL in catalogs? |
| 00:15.41 | Estel_ | jacekowski, sure, just habit due to last month or so :P |
| 00:15.49 | Estel_ | ip works for catalogs |
| 00:15.59 | Estel_ | what was that ip? |
| 00:16.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: I guess it will work just fine with /etc/hosts hack, but with IP instead URL I'm not so sure |
| 00:16.24 | Estel_ | at least in fapman it does |
| 00:16.30 | Estel_ | checks ip from own catalogs |
| 00:16.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I feel temped to kick again |
| 00:17.09 | Estel_ | Macer, ubuntu phone is going to be a shit - no Ui compatibility with anything from desktop, even 2x2x pixel wide |
| 00:17.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | <Estel_> ip works for catalogs <Estel_> at least in fapman it does |
| 00:17.23 | Estel_ | deesktop mode when conencted to tv is only fake |
| 00:18.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | shows clearly why fapman is shit and nobody understands what HAM is actually doing |
| 00:18.13 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, so kick and stop boring me? if contributing to testing new repos is reason to kick, do it and, later, go and fap man. |
| 00:18.35 | Estel_ | so what? I just said that it works in fapman, your constant kicking pestering is pathetic. |
| 00:18.42 | Macer | Estel_: the same was said for android using a non X based ui |
| 00:18.47 | Estel_ | go and contribute yourself by mtesting it in ham. |
| 00:18.48 | Macer | that seemed to work out well :) |
| 00:19.00 | Estel_ | android work out well? wrong target group, i think |
| 00:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | go and fuck yourself |
| 00:19.46 | Estel_ | I'm off for today, enough of DocScrutinizer05 bullshit today - remember to take your pills tomorrow guy, as today you're unbearable. |
| 00:19.51 | Macer | Estel_: yeah i mean worked as far as continuing on without dying |
| 00:20.21 | Macer | do you think maemo would have died had nokia sold as many N900s as HTC sold G1s? |
| 00:20.52 | xes | is looking for the train.....is it arriving? |
| 00:20.53 | Macer | then again though... i'm sure you can blame poor marketing on the part of nokia for that whereas googel was all hyped up at the time |
| 00:20.55 | GeneralAntilles | Probably |
| 00:21.03 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo dying didn't have much to do with Maemo |
| 00:21.15 | GeneralAntilles | But more to do with Symbian's performance and Microsoft offering boatloads of cash. |
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| 00:22.11 | Macer | either way i am sure the advent of giant companies jumping onboard helped |
| 00:22.37 | RST38h | Hi General, Macer |
| 00:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: just in case more than just this one fool didn't understand my concerns: HAM is testing repository against signing key. I suspect thet URL might be a part of that test |
| 00:22.57 | Macer | RST38h: hey :) |
| 00:23.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | that* |
| 00:23.24 | Macer | either way... given the fact that it seems possible it would be awesome for maemo and ubuntu to get together in order to produce a great finished product |
| 00:23.31 | Macer | something worthwhile to the cattle |
| 00:23.35 | RST38h | Forget Maemo for now, look at this little gem: |
| 00:23.37 | RST38h | "If you've done what you want for Ubuntu, then move on. That's normal there's no need to poison the well behind you just because you want to try something else." -- Mark Shuttleworth to Ubuntu contributors |
| 00:23.54 | Macer | lol |
| 00:24.11 | Macer | seems like good advice |
| 00:24.11 | RST38h | Mark Shuttleworth lays an egg. News at 11. |
| 00:24.44 | RST38h | Macer: Yeah, remember what happened to Gnome after their head cheese made similar advice to Gnome users? |
| 00:25.13 | Martix | DocScrutinizer05: I agree, it's easyjob |
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| 00:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | easy like hello-world |
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| 00:30.40 | rm_you | anyone here in Spain? and/or, has ever taken the AVE trains / Renfe trains? |
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| 00:30.53 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: well, we are signing with official keys and with hosts hack there is no way to tell those two apart (from ham perspective) |
| 00:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | renfe, yes, but decades ago |
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| 00:31.05 | Macer | RST38h: not really. i didn't like gnome that much :) |
| 00:31.05 | Macer | didn't keep up |
| 00:31.05 | Macer | did he have an exodus of people to kde/qt? heh |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | either way... the ubuntu phones actually look kind of neat |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | but i'll believe it when i see it ;) |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | heh |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/#12PFTfqb13woX1Db.99 |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | grr |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | i seriously need to find out how they're doing that |
| 00:31.06 | Macer | when you copy txt it pastes the address instead of the txt |
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| 00:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: yes, that's what I said: /etc/hosts hack will most probably work |
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| 00:31.50 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer05: heh, trying to buy tickets, not sure wtf is with the P/P+ tickets, and deciding between the Estrella overnight or the AVE high speed, to get from Barcelona to Madrid |
| 00:32.00 | RST38h | Macer: I am getting "Nigeria Archbishop Renounces Execution Order and Calls for more Aggressive Response |
| 00:32.00 | RST38h | Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/nigeria-archbishop-renounces-execution-order-and-calls-for-more-aggressive-response-20/#MeDsMVditLpDMhvw.99 |
| 00:32.19 | Macer | yeah... wtf? :) |
| 00:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: no idea, sorry |
| 00:32.29 | RST38h | Macer: Has Shuttleworth moved to Nigeria and become an archbishop? |
| 00:32.35 | Macer | that woudl be awesome! |
| 00:32.41 | rm_you | np, will just keep asking the channel |
| 00:32.43 | Macer | talk about a strange twist haha |
| 00:32.48 | Macer | http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/ |
| 00:32.53 | Macer | that was the article about the ubuntu phones |
| 00:32.54 | rm_you | this channel is my best bet for advice about European stuff >_> |
| 00:32.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: alas javispedro isn't around anymore |
| 00:32.57 | Macer | on christianpost.com? :) |
| 00:33.05 | rm_you | qgil would know too :P |
| 00:33.11 | rm_you | doesn't he have a place in Barcelona? |
| 00:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be |
| 00:33.25 | Macer | http://www.news24.com/Technology/News/Ubuntu-phone-coming-with-new-ecosystem-20130306 |
| 00:33.29 | Macer | that looks a bit qtish |
| 00:33.50 | RST38h | Have they rewritten Qt already? |
| 00:34.36 | Macer | lol |
| 00:34.38 | Macer | like java? |
| 00:34.39 | Macer | :) |
| 00:34.54 | Macer | i'm just saying. going by that pic... it looks like symbian belle heh |
| 00:35.11 | Macer | sheds a tear for belle |
| 00:35.21 | Macer | the little symbian that should have |
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| 00:37.54 | Macer | Collins: Ubuntu for smartphones is currently an early build which we will continue to develop over the coming months. At the moment, we recommend that only experienced developers flash their spare phones (Nexus 4 and Google Nexus models) with Ubuntu. |
| 00:38.20 | Macer | i wonder if they got motorola to make them an ubuntu phone heh |
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| 00:50.46 | XDS2010 | is there a way i can just ignore the hash sum issue ? |
| 00:51.40 | XDS2010 | just need to get this damn backupmenu deb installed |
| 00:51.52 | XDS2010 | ~mirrors |
| 00:51.52 | infobot | from memory, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 00:52.32 | XDS2010 | i added the mirrors and still have hash sum issues |
| 00:56.55 | XDS2010 | Estel_: can u help ? |
| 00:57.25 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.149) |
| 01:04.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | XDS2010: some wise man said "when HAM or apt throws error about hashsum, the file already got downloaded to /var/apt/cache [or sth like that]. Just go find it and install with dpkg -i " |
| 01:05.10 | XDS2010 | :-/ tried that it didn't work |
| 01:05.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | XDS2010: btw you're not supposed to add "the mirrors" but only *one* of them |
| 01:05.26 | XDS2010 | maybe the file got misplaced somehow |
| 01:05.52 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1315931&postcount=4 |
| 01:05.56 | XDS2010 | this is what i did |
| 01:05.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly extras-devel.merlin1991.at |
| 01:06.21 | XDS2010 | yea i added that |
| 01:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nothing else? |
| 01:06.35 | XDS2010 | thats all i added yea |
| 01:06.39 | XDS2010 | as -user |
| 01:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | then disable extras-devel and fine you are |
| 01:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you done it in HAM's "add catalogs" |
| 01:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | should work afaik |
| 01:07.41 | XDS2010 | AFAYK!? |
| 01:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 01:08.03 | XDS2010 | blind leading blind in hear |
| 01:08.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you need a written warranty? |
| 01:08.09 | XDS2010 | here* |
| 01:08.35 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: if this doesn't get fixed im going to lose 200$ so yea kinda would like one of those |
| 01:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | or better ask estel who's never doubting any of his own statements ;-P |
| 01:09.14 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: :-/ sorry its the end of the day im in a cranky mood |
| 01:09.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | which doesn't mean his advice is any better, but maybe you feel better when he tells you how to solve your issues |
| 01:10.07 | XDS2010 | i wish i had a gun and a bullseye target right now |
| 01:10.45 | XDS2010 | ok let me try removing devel |
| 01:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you shall not remove it |
| 01:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you shall listen to what people advice |
| 01:11.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I said "disable" |
| 01:11.44 | XDS2010 | ok thank you for the clarification |
| 01:11.59 | XDS2010 | advise* |
| 01:12.02 | XDS2010 | :P |
| 01:12.36 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: do you think i should sell it ? |
| 01:12.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I said "disable in HAM catalogs" - though that's been not that verbatim |
| 01:12.44 | XDS2010 | :-/ i have cold feet |
| 01:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | then keep it, it makes for a nice warming pad when you run weird stuff on it |
| 01:15.55 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer05: know anything about DBBahn trains? |
| 01:16.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | honstly, I don't get it what's your problem. N900 is unbrickable (virtually). It also has a builtin backup app that's pretty fine for doing backup of all your contacts and messages and accounts and appointments and stuff |
| 01:16.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: a bit more, sounds familiar |
| 01:17.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: shoot |
| 01:17.23 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: im trying to get a 4s on a9406. im going after the blue unicorn. I wanna find the bitch and catch her. |
| 01:18.09 | nox- | rm_you, the official java applet or what its called more or less runs in the emulator, and there are other timetable apps too |
| 01:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | XDS2010: are you sure your current state is the right one to mess with catalogs and stuff? |
| 01:18.25 | rm_you | nox-: oh, neat |
| 01:18.46 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: no :) |
| 01:18.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: fahrplan uses DB web interface |
| 01:19.07 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer05: trying to figure out what "open saloon" "open saloon with table" and such is, and if it matters if we're buying 2nd class tickets |
| 01:19.07 | nox- | yeah fahrplan was the one iirc |
| 01:19.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | rm_you: 1st class is twice as expensive and usually not worth it except when you have too much money to spend |
| 01:19.54 | nox- | there are a few seats that have a table, gives you more legroom iirc |
| 01:20.15 | nox- | (this in 2nd class) |
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| 01:20.34 | nox- | usually they're sold out quickly tho |
| 01:20.41 | nox- | the seats with table |
| 01:20.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | open saloon probably is a ICE waggon with no partitions |
| 01:20.47 | nox- | yeah |
| 01:20.57 | nox- | thats also what i would think |
| 01:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are seats like in airplane, and some 4 -seat combos with a table in between |
| 01:21.14 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: it seems Backupmenu is in the testing devel repo. Is there a mirror for that ? |
| 01:21.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | XDS2010: there's *no* app in testig that's not also in devel |
| 01:21.48 | XDS2010 | i think i found one |
| 01:22.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | since there is no other way for an app to go to testing other than via devel repo |
| 01:22.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I told you nobody needs testing repo |
| 01:22.38 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to have the app manager not check for updates every time i open it? |
| 01:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 01:23.10 | XDS2010 | well that sucks |
| 01:23.29 | XDS2010 | what a waist of time |
| 01:23.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but it's not meant to get opened and closed 7 times a day anyway |
| 01:23.57 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: what if you are a developer working on the appmanager itself |
| 01:24.05 | XDS2010 | that would SUCK |
| 01:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | open it, select catalogs from menu, click "maemo extras" catalog, check "disable". Click 2add catalog", enter the details for merlin catalog, click OK, klick OK, ... wait ... |
| 01:25.26 | XDS2010 | .... wait |
| 01:25.30 | XDS2010 | ........ wait some more |
| 01:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | 7 minutes |
| 01:25.39 | XDS2010 | see a trend ? |
| 01:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I don't see any trend |
| 01:26.10 | XDS2010 | 7 minutes each time you open it!? |
| 01:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just see you're complaining about sth I can't change |
| 01:26.25 | XDS2010 | yea :-/ |
| 01:26.28 | XDS2010 | cranky |
| 01:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I get tired of listening |
| 01:26.47 | XDS2010 | im in rare form tonight |
| 01:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | theheck, when I tell you it takes 7 minutes, your answer should be "FINE! time to prepare me a coffee! sth I planned to do since an hour or so" |
| 01:31.51 | XDS2010 | DocScrutinizer05: its the point of wasting energy for a process that just does not need to be run a billion times on a billion devices :-/ not saying you're wrong here just a major PITA for some |
| 01:32.11 | XDS2010 | then again i could be wrong |
| 01:33.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ping me tomorry. Sorry i'm busy now |
| 01:34.15 | XDS2010 | ok |
| 01:36.25 | XDS2010 | still not working grrrr |
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| 01:41.58 | XDS2010 | is there some other easier solution to do a baremetal backup ? |
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| 01:44.17 | XDS2010 | i have access to a linux box if that makes any difference |
| 01:50.17 | Estel_ | XDS, you may tar your rootfs and optfs manually, ommiting unnecessary directories |
| 01:50.24 | Estel_ | but backupmenu installation MUST work |
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| 01:51.36 | ManoftheSea_ | Hello |
| 01:52.10 | ManoftheSea_ | I've been running into a problem with my n900... it claims I have broken packages, when I run apt-get, it tells me keys are expired. Is there a known fix? |
| 01:53.06 | XDS2010 | ManoftheSea_: welcome to my hell |
| 01:53.25 | ManoftheSea_ | your hell? Who died and put you in charge? :) |
| 01:53.42 | XDS2010 | ManoftheSea_: Poseidon himself |
| 01:53.55 | ManoftheSea_ | that's not hell, that's the sea |
| 01:54.10 | XDS2010 | Well then welcome to your hell |
| 01:54.44 | ManoftheSea_ | hooray. Time to change the window dressing! |
| 01:54.52 | ManoftheSea_ | So... it's a known issue with no current fix? |
| 01:54.59 | ManoftheSea_ | awesome. |
| 01:55.13 | XDS2010 | WIP |
| 01:55.25 | ManoftheSea_ | yep. |
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| 01:58.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: no way |
| 01:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's several known fixes |
| 01:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirrors |
| 01:59.09 | infobot | hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 01:59.31 | ManoftheSea_ | now I've got "BADSIG 4v1" |
| 02:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: btw your report doesn't sound exactly like "problems" |
| 02:01.32 | ManoftheSea_ | hmm? problem, singular? or is it not a problem at all? |
| 02:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no pending update, particularly no security update, not even a minor pkg update pending. The "broken packages" message doesn't seem to have any negative consequences in itself |
| 02:02.13 | Estel_ | but, expired keys are just warning |
| 02:02.37 | ManoftheSea_ | well, I can't install things. That's a problem. |
| 02:02.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | to put it straight: is anything except HAM not working for you? |
| 02:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, ok. You want to install something |
| 02:03.13 | Estel_ | official repos are... wait, why I'm writing this, Council member is here, so he could explain POLITELY to a new user why things are looking like that |
| 02:03.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's a tiny bit complicated though not impossible right now |
| 02:03.28 | Estel_ | will be a difference from arguing over nonsense and kicking people from channel ;) |
| 02:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | will be fixed in a week the latest |
| 02:04.37 | ManoftheSea_ | Yes. Apt-get wouldn't install, faster-application-manager wouldn't install. |
| 02:04.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: yeah, why you ewaste your time writing such provocant bullshit? begging for another kick? |
| 02:04.49 | Estel_ | eh, as it doesn't seems like you're going to get meaningful info - for now, you can a) use fapman b) "hack" your /etc/hosts and point repos to new IP, as dns is not updated, and, despite what DocScrutinizer05 said, no one know if it will be in week time... |
| 02:04.59 | Estel_ | c) use mirrors as per: |
| 02:05.03 | Estel_ | ~mirrors |
| 02:05.03 | infobot | hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 02:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-08 02:59:08] <DocScrutinizer05> ~mirrors |
| 02:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-08 02:59:10] <infobot> hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 02:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | more provocant BS |
| 02:05.33 | Estel_ | in latest case, remember to disable normal repos though (only those that get mirrored, not nokia apps, for example) |
| 02:05.34 | ManoftheSea_ | esaym153: are you saying I'm the "new user"? |
| 02:05.40 | ManoftheSea_ | er, Estel_ |
| 02:05.45 | ManoftheSea_ | damn tab-complete |
| 02:05.49 | Estel_ | ManoftheSea_, new to the subject |
| 02:05.55 | Estel_ | of broken repos |
| 02:06.05 | Estel_ | (it's like that since month or so) |
| 02:06.35 | Estel_ | not necessary to N900 :) I also haven't seen youa round irc, thus "new" part |
| 02:06.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | more BS |
| 02:07.13 | ManoftheSea_ | ok. I've been here before, but not frequently. Also, yeah, I probably haven't tried to get new packages for that long. Just check updates every once in a while, and haven't seen anything show up. |
| 02:07.26 | Estel_ | nods |
| 02:07.28 | ManoftheSea_ | I recently wanted to grab syncevolution, and then started with problems. |
| 02:07.36 | ManoftheSea_ | well, problem singular. |
| 02:07.57 | Estel_ | well, no new packages for simillar time, as autobuilder was (and is, although THIS thing may get fixed in this week) down |
| 02:08.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: go for extras-devel.merlin1991.at, or check our great new repo at IPHH |
| 02:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | which got fixed hashsums yesterday |
| 02:08.29 | Estel_ | so new packages were distributed via .deb's or .tar's on TMO |
| 02:08.44 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, he need IP for new great |
| 02:09.01 | Estel_ | which you haven't provided him ;) |
| 02:09.05 | ManoftheSea_ | Thanks doc |
| 02:09.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ORLY?! |
| 02:09.12 | ManoftheSea_ | I'm reading the thread. |
| 02:09.17 | Estel_ | also, are you sure that domain will get redirected in a week time? :) |
| 02:09.33 | ManoftheSea_ | Estel_: I use an n900, I'm willing to be patient and learn. You're a little angry. Say woosah, take some time for yourself. |
| 02:09.39 | Estel_ | I wouldn't tell people with such certainity, that they could start using old repo adress in week. |
| 02:09.57 | Estel_ | ManoftheSea_, I'm angry at you? 0_o? |
| 02:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, since you got no idea what we're actually doing |
| 02:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what we *can* do, or plan to do |
| 02:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | you prefer to spill shit on others |
| 02:11.28 | Estel_ | I'm just a little tongue-in-check about DocScrutinizer05, which was quite unbearable for last few hours, but I don't necessary see how it radiates on you ManoftheSea_ ;) |
| 02:11.28 | rm_you | anyone have experience with Vueling air? |
| 02:11.40 | Estel_ | with doing what to air? |
| 02:11.48 | rm_you | lol |
| 02:11.54 | rm_you | it's a Spanish airline |
| 02:12.09 | ManoftheSea_ | doc, IPHH? |
| 02:12.18 | Estel_ | :) 0 experience |
| 02:12.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: mompls |
| 02:12.40 | Estel_ | IPHH is company that provided Maemo with free hosting |
| 02:13.25 | Estel_ | ...with DocScrutinizer05 encourage you to use as jacekowski (autobuilder maintainer) asked, yet, still failed to provide you with IP address :P |
| 02:13.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1325297 |
| 02:13.42 | ManoftheSea_ | is there a reason I'd want to go back to repo.maemo.org, or can I set the mirrors and forget about the issue? |
| 02:14.05 | Estel_ | mirrors won't get updated very soon, while new packages may start to appear in week time or so |
| 02:14.12 | Estel_ | some minor appeared already |
| 02:14.16 | Estel_ | minor ones* |
| 02:14.30 | Estel_ | mirrors probably will keep being frozen for some time |
| 02:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | dear estel, sir, this is since *I* know a IP alone won't suffice. Unlike *you* |
| 02:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why i'm looking for *decent* info for ManoftheSea_ whom I know since long from here in irc |
| 02:15.12 | Estel_ | whatever you mean by that sentence, I dully accept it and like your polite tone :) |
| 02:15.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, if you don't know what that sentence means, you're more dull than I thought |
| 02:15.50 | ManoftheSea_ | (dully) lol |
| 02:16.11 | Estel_ | ManoftheSea_, what do you expect at this hour ;) |
| 02:16.46 | Estel_ | anyway, goodbye, for good tonight :) have fun and don't went berseker, some of you! ;) |
| 02:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 |
| 02:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: you need further explanaitons for >> patch your /etc/hosts.<< ? |
| 02:19.07 | ManoftheSea_ | no, that's sensible to me. |
| 02:19.22 | ManoftheSea_ | 213.128.137.22, as it says in that thread. |
| 02:20.08 | ManoftheSea_ | hmm... it looked almost like T-mo was blocking me from using skeiron... got a gateway timeout on WCDMA, but worked on wifi... |
| 02:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, basically just do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root |
| 02:20.34 | ManoftheSea_ | says no extra info needed. Doc, being such a great guy, gives extra info anyway. |
| 02:21.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new repo is supposed to have no hashsum errors |
| 02:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it doesn't work, fallback to merlin mirror as of above |
| 02:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it works for you, you're welcome to stay on that repo, it will become 'official' in a week or two anyway |
| 02:23.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it actually might have some new packages that aren't available anywhere else |
| 02:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we got autobuilder to work it seems |
| 02:24.00 | ManoftheSea_ | I'm checking for updates now. |
| 02:24.53 | ManoftheSea_ | Also, I think you'd helped me with the "broken usb" problem too. Ultimate solution was to lift and shift the OS to a new, cosmetically damaged n900. |
| 02:25.12 | ManoftheSea_ | I don't mind that it's got a scratch, as long as I still have my linux pocket computer. |
| 02:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 02:34.02 | ManoftheSea_ | Thanks Doc. It looks like the hosts edit has resolved the "bad key" or "expired key" messages. |
| 02:34.24 | *** join/#maemo npm_ (~npm@cpe-198-72-183-90.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:34.51 | ManoftheSea_ | I had a chance to mess with a nexus 4 recently... I came back to n900. Even for $0. |
| 02:37.08 | GeneralAntilles | ManoftheSea_, Android is truly horrid. |
| 02:37.48 | ManoftheSea_ | Per-process mounts. |
| 02:37.58 | ManoftheSea_ | without a location for shared mounts. |
| 02:38.07 | ManoftheSea_ | The walled garden isn't even very nice... |
| 02:40.31 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 02:41.00 | ManoftheSea_ | can't find libpcre3... should I have both CSSU and CSSU_testing on? |
| 02:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: thanks for report about rmo_*new*. Glad to hear it works for you |
| 02:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rmo-new is do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root |
| 02:43.47 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 02:43.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal mirrors |
| 02:43.58 | infobot | "#maemo mirrors" is "<reply>see mirror" |
| 02:44.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal mirror |
| 02:44.01 | infobot | "#maemo mirror" is "http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error" |
| 02:44.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo mirror is also see ~rmo-new |
| 02:44.28 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 02:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror |
| 02:44.33 | infobot | i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new |
| 02:45.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rmo-new is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 |
| 02:45.26 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 02:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | moinmoin GeneralAntilles |
| 02:49.13 | ManoftheSea_ | so... I can't find libpcre3 because it's not mirrored? Or I don't have the right mirror? |
| 02:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard of libpcre3 |
| 02:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the mirrors are just that: mirrors. They shouldn't lack anything that been there on source repo 8 weeks ago# |
| 02:52.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, merlin's repo is actually more than just a mirror, he rebuilt the .desc files |
| 02:52.50 | thedead1440 | hmm libpcre3 is from official nokia repos |
| 02:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | stll no reason why any pkg could miss |
| 02:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooooh |
| 02:53.06 | thedead1440 | its not from rmo so why can't you find it ManoftheSea_? |
| 02:53.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | key expired problem? |
| 02:53.51 | thedead1440 | i don't think so; it was installed for me but apt-get install -d --reinstall and it downloaded fine |
| 02:54.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 02:54.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 02:54.05 | thedead1440 | apt-cache search also revealed it |
| 02:54.15 | thedead1440 | maybe some typo by ManoftheSea_ |
| 02:54.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ManoftheSea_: yeah, try apt-cache search |
| 02:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | with substring |
| 02:54.50 | *** join/#maemo Guest50772 (~smuxi@grm-studby-128-39-149-158.studby.uia.no) |
| 02:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't forget apt-get update! ;-) |
| 02:55.22 | ManoftheSea_ | So the official repo should still be engaged? |
| 02:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nokia ones yes |
| 02:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought they can't get disabled anyway |
| 02:58.15 | thedead1440 | iirc you can disable them in HAM but i haven't used HAM since mid-Jan so not sure |
| 03:00.41 | *** join/#maemo maybeArgh (~cl@p5B16392D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:02.56 | *** join/#maemo Hurrian (~Hurrian@121.54.2.104) |
| 03:03.16 | ManoftheSea_ | ALRIGHT! I seem to be fully fixed. Thanks be to you, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 03:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw, thanks for testing |
| 03:07.51 | *** join/#maemo MetalGearSolid (~IRC@251.241.50.60.brf03-home.tm.net.my) |
| 03:08.11 | *** join/#maemo totalizator (~totalizat@89-79-239-132.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 03:18.35 | Macer | im actually really excited about the ubuntu phones |
| 03:18.47 | Macer | i wonder if they will have xtterm and a gnu userland |
| 03:18.50 | Macer | like maemo |
| 03:19.03 | Hurrian | Macer: it's an Android userland |
| 03:19.06 | *** join/#maemo otep (~quassel@AP-203.167.4.11.sysads.com) |
| 03:19.16 | *** join/#maemo ccssnet (~ccssnet@98.216.141.157) |
| 03:19.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, gnu userland |
| 03:19.19 | Macer | wow really? thats no fun |
| 03:19.28 | Macer | heh |
| 03:19.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's canonical, Macer! |
| 03:19.52 | Macer | :) |
| 03:20.03 | Macer | well.. i just mean it would be nice to have the arm repo |
| 03:20.10 | Macer | similar to maemo |
| 03:20.23 | Macer | although it was interesting to hear theyre dropping xorg |
| 03:20.33 | Macer | for the other method... cant remember |
| 03:20.39 | *** join/#maemo uen| (~uen@p5DCB1422.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:20.39 | Hurrian | Mir. |
| 03:20.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting? :-o |
| 03:20.47 | Macer | the one all linux should have swapped to years ago |
| 03:20.52 | Macer | yes |
| 03:20.57 | Macer | it is a goood thing |
| 03:21.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | suuure |
| 03:21.18 | Macer | leave it to linux to cling to obsolete things :) |
| 03:21.19 | Hurrian | I have no idea why Canonical's going with Mir instead of Wayland |
| 03:21.22 | Macer | like gtk vs qt |
| 03:21.42 | Macer | no matter how they try to dress up gtk it still looks like win 3.1 |
| 03:22.05 | Macer | qt based stuff looks so much cleaner |
| 03:22.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter what they do to qt>3, it feels like coded by fools |
| 03:22.38 | Macer | maybe... but it still looks nicer ;) |
| 03:23.02 | Macer | i mean look at most of the bloated python stuff out there nowadays |
| 03:23.19 | *** join/#maemo otep_ (~quassel@27.126.153.141) |
| 03:23.25 | Macer | seems to get the job done and doesnt seen to be going anywhere |
| 03:23.42 | Macer | seem |
| 03:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, for the few hours my embedded device can run on qt until battery empty, I wouldn't want less than that |
| 03:24.24 | Macer | heh... i suppose, but that is a matter of refinement |
| 03:24.25 | Macer | still need a base |
| 03:24.25 | Macer | , and like i said, it |
| 03:24.25 | Macer | isnt lik |
| 03:24.40 | Macer | wtf? |
| 03:24.40 | Macer | sorry |
| 03:25.00 | Macer | it isn't like maemo seems to be expanding to newer platforms any time soon |
| 03:25.22 | Macer | and last i recall there was a big push to qt in maemo as well |
| 03:25.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't make it better |
| 03:25.40 | Macer | and symbian seems to last a very long time running qt based stuff |
| 03:26.09 | Macer | maybe not, but more people will buy new than look for something used to try something with |
| 03:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 03:26.33 | Macer | ie: you wont find an overabundance of new users clamoring for an old n900 |
| 03:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | how is that relevant for me? |
| 03:27.26 | Macer | heh. i guess it isnt if you want to run a platform that only you have and dev on after the rest of the n900s fade out of existance |
| 03:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | my friends ask me where to get a new N900. I don't need to impress them with newest model iPhone or whatever |
| 03:28.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, while your philosophy sounds like suicide to avoid natural death |
| 03:28.39 | Macer | and your answer is probably "they dont make them anymore but..." |
| 03:29.05 | Macer | so to a new user that is most likely a turnoff |
| 03:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, how's that relevant? |
| 03:29.27 | Macer | not to mention after the support gathered from what is left of the community... |
| 03:29.45 | Macer | and the companies providing free hosting give up doing it |
| 03:30.19 | Macer | it will essentially spell the end of maemo without any community appeal or harsh community reduction |
| 03:30.32 | Macer | who don ates if they have nothing to do nate for? |
| 03:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and you going old and lame and can't see anymore the brilliant UI of your shiny new ubuntu phone. Honestly, what are we talking about? |
| 03:31.27 | Macer | it is a step in the right direction, maemo should try to jump on the boat with its devs and support |
| 03:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 03:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | take that elsewhere |
| 03:31.50 | Macer | it means a lot of the maemo base can be integrated |
| 03:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | we heard this tune since around 3..4 years now |
| 03:32.04 | Macer | like the battery saving techniques etc |
| 03:32.41 | Macer | and what has happened in 3-4 years other than about 4 abandoned devices and pulled support? |
| 03:32.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine! go and integrate it wherever you like. Maybe come back and present the result, and you might actually lure a few of us over on your side |
| 03:33.14 | Macer | with maemo on more than nokia, or at least the good bits it continues on and contributes to the ultimate goal |
| 03:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | pff |
| 03:33.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ultimate goal |
| 03:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | bwahaha |
| 03:33.41 | Macer | fine. your choice to be hardheaded |
| 03:33.48 | Macer | to each their own |
| 03:34.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | your choice is to come here and try to teach us what to do |
| 03:35.03 | Macer | im looking at it from an economics point of view, wasnt telling you what to do, but making a suggestion |
| 03:35.14 | Macer | no customers = no money and support |
| 03:35.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | who cares? |
| 03:35.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't my money |
| 03:35.35 | Macer | facepalm |
| 03:35.38 | *** join/#maemo jpinx (~jpinx@unaffiliated/jpinx) |
| 03:35.40 | Macer | yeah |
| 03:35.49 | Macer | that is a big point. it isnt your money |
| 03:36.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | so honestly what you're trying to sell to us here? |
| 03:37.08 | Macer | im not selling you anything... i am just saying that the work maemo has done can contribute to a continued existance of a real linux device |
| 03:37.29 | Macer | instead of fading into non existance, it could be a community revival |
| 03:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | smae old lame "why do you bother about telepathy on maemo? come over to meego and do it better on that platform, it's the future!" tune? |
| 03:37.36 | Macer | with... more hardware to work with |
| 03:38.24 | Macer | maybe... but better than sitting around doing nothing but trying to sell Hummer SUVs when nobody wants them anymore ;) |
| 03:38.31 | rm_you | coming in halfway through here, though I can't help but see Macer's point >_> |
| 03:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | xprism: yes, SHR got ported to N900 |
| 03:38.41 | Macer | maemo is great |
| 03:38.45 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 03:38.48 | Macer | it would be a shame to see it die |
| 03:39.00 | rm_you | it's already dieing now... <_< |
| 03:39.09 | rm_you | no real infusion in sight |
| 03:39.41 | Macer | right now ubuntu runs on android devices |
| 03:39.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: you can sell whatever you want, to whomever you want. But I don't buy your "take the alternative" preaching. since there is no alternative |
| 03:39.56 | Macer | actual devices coming soon. not just the n9 like meego |
| 03:40.09 | *** join/#maemo Snafu777 (~Snafu777@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 03:40.10 | Macer | i am not saying take the alternative |
| 03:40.21 | Macer | but to disregard the opportunity ... |
| 03:40.27 | Macer | even if you dont jump onboard |
| 03:40.44 | Macer | it would still be unwise not to even consider the ability to find new hardware |
| 03:41.09 | Macer | simplu due to either pride or hardheadedness |
| 03:41.18 | Macer | simply |
| 03:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: and maemo will die from guys like you suggesting we all bin our N900 and move on to something else, since "maemo on N900 is dieing anyway, so why stay here?" |
| 03:41.42 | Macer | im not saying that either |
| 03:41.47 | Macer | n900 is a great device |
| 03:41.53 | Macer | if it doesnt break on you |
| 03:42.01 | Snafu777 | Mine ain't broke |
| 03:42.04 | Macer | but the simple fact is... it isnt being made anymore |
| 03:42.07 | Snafu777 | I love my n900 |
| 03:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | SO WHAT? |
| 03:42.42 | Macer | plus... who is to say you cant bring some of the ubuntu code to the n900 as well? |
| 03:42.45 | Snafu777 | There will most likely always be parts for it |
| 03:42.52 | Macer | sighs |
| 03:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | too bad for you that yours broke and you can't find a new one |
| 03:42.54 | Macer | very well |
| 03:42.59 | Macer | i can |
| 03:43.12 | Macer | no point in arguing with a stone head |
| 03:43.23 | Macer | patience is a virtue |
| 03:43.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: you're not arguing, you can't even make a clear statement what's your point |
| 03:44.18 | Macer | if you cant find the point then there is no point in continuing the conversation |
| 03:44.24 | Macer | like i said... to each their own |
| 03:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Macer> it is a step in the right direction, maemo should try to jump on the boat with its devs and support)) how the fsck would that look like? |
| 03:45.10 | Macer | youre a dev, i majored in economics.. not cs.. and see no good endgame to maemo |
| 03:45.23 | Macer | but you made your position clear |
| 03:45.35 | Macer | so.... the end. |
| 03:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah. the end. Like I said above, you're free to port the FOSS bits of maemo to wherever you like. And after you've done, come back here and present your achievements. That's the *only* way to convince somebody in here to follow you |
| 03:47.10 | Macer | but i will leave you with... maemo4 maemo5 meego.. ultimate limitations to awesome mobile operating systems: viable continuing hardware |
| 03:47.35 | Macer | no need |
| 03:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, council will not declare maemo dead and suggest every maemo community member gets an ubuntu phone now and start to port maemo to it |
| 03:49.03 | Macer | didnt say that either |
| 03:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I really don't see what's all your bickering all about |
| 03:49.08 | Macer | but that is how you see it |
| 03:49.17 | Macer | so be it |
| 03:49.32 | Macer | if you cant see the obvious vision.. then live blindly |
| 03:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | not everybody who can't see your visions is blind |
| 03:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/visions/delusions/ |
| 03:50.20 | Snafu777 | Unless I can packet inject I would never switch |
| 03:50.34 | Macer | Snafu777: lol! |
| 03:50.43 | Macer | fair enough :) |
| 03:50.45 | Snafu777 | N900 is one of a kind |
| 03:50.54 | Snafu777 | Only phone of its kind in the world |
| 03:52.29 | Snafu777 | Until somebody invents a kernel that works for packet injection on another cell phone, this community will be around for a long long time |
| 03:52.31 | Macer | maybe later when someone ports ubuntu to it you will still be able to do it lol |
| 03:52.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders why it's always those who don't own a (working) N900 who come here ans suggest "maemo should jump there, maemo should go this way..." |
| 03:52.52 | Snafu777 | Why would I want Ubuntu? |
| 03:53.11 | Snafu777 | I have a Linux environment on my phone tht works perfect |
| 03:53.16 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05: you misunderstand, having had 2 the n900 and maemo is awesome |
| 03:53.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | as if maemo was a person |
| 03:53.25 | Snafu777 | Granted, I hate the NAND concept but its easy to bypass |
| 03:53.36 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: herd mentality? They think they should drag you out of your comfort too so you suffer with them :p |
| 03:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: sounds exaclty like that to me, yeah |
| 03:54.06 | Macer | lol.. but one must consider the future of maemo, which in your case is relicing it to the n900 instead of seeing a way to expand it to other hardware |
| 03:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | Macer: there IS NO future of maemo |
| 03:54.32 | Macer | wow |
| 03:54.34 | Macer | lol |
| 03:54.36 | Macer | very well |
| 03:54.46 | Macer | that sums it up right there |
| 03:54.47 | Snafu777 | Why would you? Unless u have a chipset that supports injection.... Viva 802.11 |
| 03:55.30 | Macer | now i see your point |
| 03:55.38 | Snafu777 | Me? |
| 03:55.42 | Macer | no |
| 03:55.47 | Macer | DocScrutinizer05 |
| 03:56.22 | thedead1440 | Snafu777: i remember SGS2 supporting injection drivers FWIW; i've played around with disconnecting some connections and intercepting data via the same WiFi network at home on my S2 |
| 03:56.50 | Snafu777 | Can u reliably inject? |
| 03:56.56 | Snafu777 | Can u reliably do monitor mode |
| 03:56.57 | Macer | well then DocScrutinizer05 you will hear no more of this type of talk from me. you should have just said that in the very beginning heh |
| 03:57.03 | Snafu777 | Can you run airbase ng |
| 03:57.20 | Snafu777 | The n900 is very unique |
| 03:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo will stay the way it's now for several years on. And eventually some parts like hildon-desktop might get ported to other platforms. There's no second life for maemo though, on any new hw |
| 03:58.35 | Macer | like i said.. you made your point |
| 03:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | there wasn't even a maemo future on meego devices |
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| 04:02.06 | thedead1440 | Snafu777: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1282900 the S2 iirc is the only other phone that uses the same WiFi chip as the N900 hence the similar possibilities. And I'm not telling you to switch but widening your view of alternatives that do the same thing |
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| 04:04.14 | Snafu777 | That sounds like MITM stuff |
| 04:04.20 | Snafu777 | Not packet injection DDR |
| 04:04.25 | Snafu777 | dude rather |
| 04:06.25 | Snafu777 | thedead1440?? |
| 04:06.32 | thedead1440 | the same developer has packet injection too; you have to donate though first just like the MITM stuff. I only paid for MITM as i wanted to test if it really works on a droid. |
| 04:07.15 | thedead1440 | i tried this out like iirc 4months back; maybe you want to read up to see how reliable it is |
| 04:07.36 | Estel_ | thedead1440, do you recall where one can grab fremantle scratchbox virtual image? |
| 04:07.40 | Estel_ | tablet.dev seems down |
| 04:08.11 | thedead1440 | Estel_: |
| 04:08.20 | thedead1440 | http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo-dev-env-downloads/ |
| 04:09.03 | thedead1440 | just add skeiron.org/ to any url and its the same thing except for repos which are skeiron.org/repo/ |
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| 04:10.43 | thedead1440 | Also Estel_ mirrors wont remain frozen; they would sync with new rmo once its up on its feet. i'm sure merlin would do the same too. the sync is off as you don't want to hammer something thats still not fully up |
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| 04:12.12 | Estel_ | thedead1440, thanks |
| 04:12.17 | thedead1440 | np |
| 04:12.29 | Estel_ | btw, what is the reason for syncing repos with rmo? |
| 04:12.40 | Estel_ | all the time, I mean, when it's working reliably? |
| 04:12.49 | Estel_ | (instead of syncing every week, for example) |
| 04:13.00 | Estel_ | don't we trust its reliability? |
| 04:13.05 | thedead1440 | so that they are up-to-date |
| 04:13.19 | thedead1440 | are things really stable as of now? |
| 04:13.28 | Estel_ | sure, that's good point, I'm just curious if it won't keep many people from switching back to new rmo |
| 04:13.53 | thedead1440 | no once everything is 100% done ofcourse skeiron would go hidden or whatever |
| 04:14.01 | Estel_ | nods |
| 04:14.10 | Estel_ | that makes sense |
| 04:14.18 | Estel_ | just glaned chanlog |
| 04:14.18 | thedead1440 | skeiron wasn't supposed to last even till end of January |
| 04:14.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't wase my money for guys to bitch about it |
| 04:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | waste even |
| 04:14.33 | Estel_ | lol @ Macer, every week he is here and try to sell us some device |
| 04:14.41 | Estel_ | mostly non-existing ones |
| 04:14.44 | thedead1440 | its thanks to DocScrutinizer05 who said not to let it go down and keep maintaining it |
| 04:15.04 | thedead1440 | and of course thanks to brkn for maintaining it ;) |
| 04:15.11 | Estel_ | last time it was android, (existing), before firefox os :P |
| 04:15.38 | Estel_ | btw, does maemo plan to host things like those dev bits mirrored at skeiron? |
| 04:16.13 | thedead1440 | if maemo gets all the go-aheads required from Nokia of course it'll host *everything* |
| 04:16.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we would like to, but it's pretty unclear if Nokia is willing to allow |
| 04:17.01 | thedead1440 | ideally wonders what happened to Macer's FOIA request... |
| 04:17.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all the domain ends in nokia.com |
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| 04:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw tabletsdev.maemo.org been the stage for tablets-dev.nokia.com |
| 04:18.28 | Estel_ | the nokia go-ahead is what I'm worried about |
| 04:18.36 | Estel_ | not that they would like to say "no" |
| 04:18.41 | Estel_ | I'm worried about silence |
| 04:19.45 | thedead1440 | Estel_: only HiFo have a proper idea of what's exactly going on with Nokia afaik; I don't think even Council know all about the discussions but i could be wrong though |
| 04:20.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | nemein took it down due to "detected security issueas" |
| 04:20.05 | Estel_ | hifo have idea about it? optimist :) |
| 04:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: no, your're not wrong |
| 04:20.46 | Estel_ | thedead1440, thanks anyway for patiently explaining, I'm out of those formalities loop, kinda |
| 04:21.21 | thedead1440 | Estel_: I read Council meeting logs and you are on that chan too so its just reading logs instead of being in loop :p |
| 04:21.56 | Estel_ | question from totally different barrel... lets say that I would like to have full dev enviromnent (but for maemo only) on device - so developing for N900 on n900. I could even dedicated separate partition for big bits. Any caveats? |
| 04:22.27 | Estel_ | I must admit that council meetings logs were not in my circle of interest since ages, with one exception, once :P |
| 04:22.34 | Estel_ | thats why I'm out of this loop |
| 04:22.56 | Estel_ | I'm on that channel, btw? oh right, I am. |
| 04:23.02 | thedead1440 | lol |
| 04:23.32 | Estel_ | proxy bouncer, so personally I forget :p |
| 04:25.04 | thedead1440 | if you read the logs you would understand maybe half of Doc's own struggles ;) He's working on this stuff almost like 20hours a day. |
| 04:25.09 | Estel_ | as for developing, of course I'm setting up vm on desktop, but I would like being able to do so while travelling with N900 |
| 04:25.21 | Estel_ | noticed that |
| 04:25.46 | Estel_ | and kudos and respect for that, while spanking for other things :P |
| 04:25.59 | thedead1440 | so give him a break instead of spoiling his remaining 4 hours :p |
| 04:26.23 | Estel_ | :P need to spoils it, only one way to put him into sleep |
| 04:26.36 | thedead1440 | lol |
| 04:26.52 | Estel_ | other that singing lulababies, which is quite pervertic. |
| 04:27.18 | Estel_ | perversive* |
| 04:29.04 | thedead1440 | i wouldn't want to be in his shoes of being replying to $Rob while arguing here for something trivial and at the same time facing queries from $tech_staff on access etc... |
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| 04:30.24 | thedead1440 | Estel_: is there something like the Harmattan SDK chroot for developing on the N900? Maybe that could help you out |
| 04:31.42 | thedead1440 | Estel_: i meant something like that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84193 |
| 04:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | called easydeb |
| 04:35.58 | thedead1440 | it it this by same dev (humble): http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71546 |
| 04:36.17 | thedead1440 | s/it it/is it/ |
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| 04:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | SUDSER |
| 04:53.01 | eccerr0r | anyone happen to know how much more ram kernel-power uses? I'll highly doubt I'll use ntfs, ipv6, isofs, etc.; might have to build my own kernel if I don't want them? |
| 04:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | many of those are modules |
| 04:54.37 | eccerr0r | that'd be good |
| 04:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask pali |
| 04:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | so far nobody ever complained about KP's RAM-usage ;-) |
| 04:55.52 | eccerr0r | I was a bit concerned with "booting from other media ext4, xfs, reiserfs" which implies statically compiled, but perhaps they ware in an initramfs or something and can be rmmodded |
| 04:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, the fs probably are built in |
| 04:57.17 | eccerr0r | while 150K or so for xfs isn't much to 256MB,... it is a good chunk of RAM. |
| 04:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway KP needs to fit into NAND kernel partition |
| 04:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure it's compressed |
| 04:58.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly I guess there are other mem-hogs that are way worse than any KP |
| 04:59.32 | eccerr0r | ext4 269830 0 |
| 04:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 04:59.48 | eccerr0r | well, it adds up. |
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| 05:00.14 | eccerr0r | that's the x86 size of ext4fs memory footprint |
| 05:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: on other half of scale you get rid of ext3 driver |
| 05:01.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess |
| 05:01.55 | eccerr0r | true, is possible to upgrade the ext3 to ext4 |
| 05:02.29 | eccerr0r | I just don't think I'll use xfs. I hope nfs is a module |
| 05:06.22 | eccerr0r | At least there's no ACPI interpreter :D |
| 05:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Mem: 245540k total, |
| 05:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | on stock kernel |
| 05:09.02 | eccerr0r | that would be a good comparison right there. |
| 05:10.10 | eccerr0r | 262144K = 256MB, even the stock kernel burns a lot of ram, so I don't think kp overall couldn't be that much worse |
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| 05:11.23 | eccerr0r | x86 target for fun: Mem: 250132 (with acpi interpreter) |
| 05:11.36 | eccerr0r | (also 256MB) |
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| 06:39.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 06:39.55 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: aw, gee |
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| 06:48.07 | kerio | Macer: you actually think that ubuntu moving to Mir is a good thing? what the fuck |
| 06:58.29 | tx0h | hi |
| 06:59.10 | tx0h | the video1 cam isn't very sensitive, right? |
| 06:59.45 | tx0h | i mean, it's very dark. is there a way to increase sensitivity? |
| 07:00.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 07:00.48 | tx0h | not really means? |
| 07:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | means it's simply too small and sits "behind sunglasses" even |
| 07:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can increase exposure time I guess, but that's not resulting in significantly better pictures |
| 07:02.41 | tx0h | would it be much better if i would drill a hole? |
| 07:05.25 | tx0h | the cam is normaly used as a sensor for correcting the display brightness. right? |
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| 07:13.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
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| 07:14.04 | tx0h | there is another sensor for this job? |
| 07:14.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 07:14.14 | tx0h | wow |
| 07:17.35 | kerio | tx0h: you can actually see it, if you angle the n900 against a light |
| 07:17.45 | kerio | one is the proximity sensor, the other is the light sensor |
| 07:17.55 | kerio | all on the side of the front camera |
| 07:19.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | the ALS is really in the corner, next to cam |
| 07:20.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the other apperture more direction earpiece is the prox sensor |
| 07:20.44 | tx0h | the n900 is still a better phone |
| 07:23.07 | tx0h | but why did they build such a weak front cam? for video conf it's really unuseable,isn't it? |
| 07:24.21 | kerio | meh |
| 07:25.02 | tx0h | :-) |
| 07:25.07 | kerio | it worksforme |
| 07:25.19 | kerio | but i don't know if it's nicocam that's doing some magic to the image |
| 07:25.25 | kerio | ...i am, however, directly facing a window |
| 07:26.33 | tx0h | i took this line from the mirror prg: gst-launch v4l2src device=/dev/video1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! gamma gamma=2.0 ! videoflip method=4 ! xvimagesink |
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| 07:28.54 | tx0h | i can't find nicocam in the repository |
| 07:29.15 | kerio | it's the camera app in cssu testing |
| 07:29.34 | tx0h | oh, i'm still with stable :-) |
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| 07:35.27 | n900-dk_ | Damn, my n900s fully charged battery was drained during the night :( |
| 07:36.04 | kerio | n900-dk_: was it connected to a wifi network that stopped existing? |
| 07:36.07 | kerio | aka did your router reboot |
| 07:36.23 | n900-dk_ | no,wifi always online |
| 07:37.35 | n900-dk_ | I just understand, why I see this issue now - it has always been able to handle a day or so on fully charged bat |
| 07:38.09 | n900-dk_ | s/just/just dont/ |
| 07:39.19 | Macer | n900-dk_: i had that same issue due to swapping batteries |
| 07:39.39 | Macer | battery eye might help, probably just not trained correctly |
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| 07:39.55 | Macer | it would steadily decrease then drop 20% |
| 07:40.10 | Macer | in a vertical line |
| 07:40.26 | Macer | also, i had a similar issue with a poor widget |
| 07:40.39 | Macer | i believe the apnews one |
| 07:40.51 | Macer | which would eat the batter life up |
| 07:40.56 | Macer | battery |
| 07:41.01 | n900-dk_ | but I only have conversation and calender widget |
| 07:41.38 | Macer | do you or have you swapped batteries? |
| 07:41.45 | n900-dk_ | no |
| 07:42.03 | Macer | my untrained battery would stay at 0% for like 6 hours heh |
| 07:42.11 | n900-dk_ | guess I will have to buy a new battery |
| 07:42.16 | Macer | odd... maybe try eliminating the widgets |
| 07:42.21 | Macer | and check battery eye |
| 07:42.29 | Macer | it gives you a nice little chart |
| 07:42.46 | n900-dk_ | yeah I know - I like batterygraph better |
| 07:42.59 | Macer | didnt see anything awkward? |
| 07:43.11 | Macer | like a sudden drop towards the end? |
| 07:43.26 | n900-dk_ | but even uninstalled that on, just to be sure it wasn't the eating one |
| 07:43.39 | Macer | heh |
| 07:44.10 | Macer | well you dont need the battery eye widget running just to get the battery history. and it really doesnt eat much to keep track |
| 07:44.19 | n900-dk_ | no, it is just a very steep curve and fast dropping |
| 07:44.35 | Macer | while asleep? |
| 07:44.37 | Macer | odd |
| 07:45.15 | n900-dk_ | yes, asleep and not using the phone at all |
| 07:45.15 | Macer | on my untrained ones i just waited for it to turn off and then charged it fully |
| 07:45.37 | Macer | doesnt the one youre using show which apps are eating the most? |
| 07:45.52 | n900-dk_ | no |
| 07:46.02 | Macer | maybe might be able to determine it from that, otherwise it could be because your battery has reached its eol |
| 07:46.04 | n900-dk_ | can battery eye do that? |
| 07:46.15 | Macer | i think so, cant remember tbh |
| 07:46.23 | Macer | it has been a while |
| 07:48.21 | n900-dk_ | will try to lower the power settings on wifi connection, to see if it has any influence |
| 07:49.01 | Macer | it wont ;) |
| 07:49.08 | Macer | nothing you would notice |
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| 07:49.20 | tx0h | i recently bought 2 batteries. one last for 3+ days while the other one is off in about 24h |
| 07:49.21 | Macer | sleeping my n900 would last forever tho |
| 07:51.57 | n900-dk_ | tx0h: with the same capacity? |
| 07:52.33 | tx0h | it's the same batteries. but i didn't meassured it |
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| 07:53.12 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: still having trouble? hmmm, powertop C4 times are now...? |
| 07:54.41 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: yeah, stupid phone :( |
| 07:56.40 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: well reflash would prove it's not h/w related. |
| 07:58.14 | n900-dk_ | guess you are right |
| 07:59.17 | n900-dk_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:59.35 | n900-dk_ | seems fine |
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| 08:02.40 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_ that good maybe get a polarcell? |
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| 08:03.27 | sixwheeledbeast | anyway good luck g2g to work :( |
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| 08:05.40 | kerio | work is good |
| 08:05.43 | kerio | they give you money n shit |
| 08:07.56 | joga | often more shit tho |
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| 08:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk_: what's with your appstarter-screen? has it enough icons so you can scroll up and down? |
| 08:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk_: there's a stupid bug in hildon desktop that still isn't fixed in stock maemo afaik: when appstarted (or other screens) don't have enough content to allow scrolling up/down, the kinetic scrolling willl constantly bounce the screen content up and down 0 pixels |
| 08:27.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | which kills battery like nuttin |
| 08:27.56 | n900-dk_ | so it could happend if one of my shortcut icons is on the edge? |
| 08:28.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't see much activity in anything, since it's mostly gfx engine that runs |
| 08:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | only thing with significant activity is X/hildon-desktop iirc |
| 08:29.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | desktop shortcuts? don't think so |
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| 08:29.50 | n900-dk_ | the I'm not sure, I understand what you mean with appstarter-screen.. |
| 08:29.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | this bug turned up first time when users installed apmefo or similar to sort their app icons into subfolders, so main appstarted screen became empty |
| 08:29.57 | n900-dk_ | s/the/then/ |
| 08:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | the screen where you start apps |
| 08:30.38 | n900-dk_ | ahh :) |
| 08:30.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | desktop -> taskswitcher -> appstarter |
| 08:31.51 | n900-dk_ | I have 3 rows and can scrool |
| 08:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | in cssu hildon desktop this bug got fixed |
| 08:32.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, then this bug doesn't apply to you |
| 08:32.21 | n900-dk_ | I'm on ccsu-t |
| 08:32.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah |
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| 08:32.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, then this bug doesn't apply to you |
| 08:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:34.17 | n900-dk_ | wonder if my isp updated my wifi-router to do something stupid. Will try another wifi the next night |
| 08:35.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | next time you should post full pastebin of powertop output |
| 08:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | experts here can see details in it you wouldn't notice |
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| 08:35.51 | n900-dk_ | but it seems fine now, but the phone has also been off, since battery was drained |
| 08:36.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | like # of IRQ on different sources |
| 08:36.17 | n900-dk_ | I will :) |
| 08:37.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | also forget battery-eye, what you need is cpu load applet |
| 08:37.11 | tx0h | my poertop looks like this: http://pastebin.ca/2329805 is this bad? i have no clue what it means |
| 08:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | to have a way to tell unusual cpu load |
| 08:37.46 | n900-dk_ | DocScrutinizer05: can you recommend a cpu load applet? |
| 08:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | tx0h: yes, it's KP and thus the freq display upper right is garbled |
| 08:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | way too much C0 and too little C4 |
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| 08:40.22 | tx0h | what is C0 - C4? |
| 08:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | sleep states of CPU |
| 08:41.27 | vi__ | tx0h: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/611 |
| 08:41.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | also way too many i2c IRQ, are you on charger? |
| 08:42.46 | tx0h | ty |
| 08:43.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and FSCK pastebin.ca which wants to set another cookie every 15s |
| 08:43.37 | tx0h | yes, it's un the charger |
| 08:43.44 | tx0h | on |
| 08:43.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it's all normal |
| 08:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but also meaningless |
| 08:44.28 | tx0h | :-) |
| 08:45.01 | tx0h | ok, i will have an eye on it |
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| 09:06.03 | b0unc3 | good morning |
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| 09:37.29 | tx0h | is it a good time now to switch to cssu ? |
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| 09:38.28 | tx0h | or is it better to wait? |
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| 09:45.08 | biketool | anyone around with experience with backup-menu |
| 09:45.34 | tx0h | not me, sry |
| 09:45.47 | biketool | I tried installing KP52 and ended up bootlooped |
| 09:47.36 | vi__ | biketool: care to elaborate? |
| 09:47.50 | biketool | then tried backing up from backupmenu but it froze after showing the menu, reflashed got backupmenu installed, backupmenu worked but the reinstall was a bootloop actually two different archives that I put on SD and with backupmenu onto the emmc |
| 09:48.55 | vi__ | Are you running thumb? |
| 09:49.20 | biketool | this is for future fref, I reflashed and ended up spending the day returning to the n900 to get the right repos, reinstall and all the extras like cssu thumb, my webos stuff, flash 10, and 720p vid |
| 09:50.18 | biketool | ah, running thumb hosed me on the new kernel? |
| 09:50.18 | vi__ | Is kp52 thumb compatible? |
| 09:50.27 | biketool | probably NOT |
| 09:50.53 | biketool | still weird that backupmenu still left me bootlooped |
| 09:50.58 | tx0h | what is thumb and what is kp52? |
| 09:51.00 | biketool | especially after flashing |
| 09:51.33 | biketool | kernel-power version 52, the early testing release |
| 09:51.39 | vi__ | you flashed, installed backupmenu, then after restoring your backup there was a bootloop? |
| 09:52.12 | biketool | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 |
| 09:52.45 | biketool | vi, yep, actually found an earlier archive, reflashed and tried that too |
| 09:52.52 | biketool | then gave up and did the job by hand |
| 09:53.33 | biketool | tx0h, the url is the announce fr thumb |
| 09:54.54 | biketool | thumb takes advantage of a software fixed CPU feature, saves battery and gives a small performance bump |
| 09:56.10 | biketool | I dont know that I have ever actually done a real backupmenu recover, thought I might be missing something |
| 09:56.20 | tx0h | wow, i need it. |
| 09:56.28 | biketool | thumb is cool |
| 09:56.29 | tx0h | and kp52 is a new kernel? |
| 09:56.41 | biketool | yea, it will be on the repos soon probably |
| 09:57.17 | biketool | I tried it because I wanted to do automatic bluetooth PAN tether |
| 09:57.24 | tx0h | i ajust ask myseelf is this the right time to switch to cssu (testing) |
| 09:57.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | biketool: never restore to another kernel that the one the backup been done under |
| 09:58.25 | biketool | Doc', so flashing to KP52 hosed my backupmenu booting? |
| 09:58.55 | biketool | and flashing to a backupmenu archive on cssu from stock flash is also a no-go? |
| 09:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, restoring KP52 rootfs to a stock kernel hosed your restore |
| 09:59.25 | tx0h | biketool: do you think you bricked the n900? |
| 09:59.38 | biketool | it is fine now |
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| 10:00.13 | biketool | just wasted every bit of free time for one day to do a full recover |
| 10:00.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you do a backup under acme kernel, you need to restore like this: reflash, install BM, *install acme kernel*, only then restore |
| 10:00.28 | biketool | rather than 10 min to do a backupmenu repair |
| 10:00.31 | tx0h | this backup menu, what does it do? a dd via wireless? |
| 10:00.52 | biketool | Doc', ok, thanks for that |
| 10:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | tx0h: no, a tar of rootfs and /home |
| 10:01.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | to uSD |
| 10:01.50 | tx0h | ah, ok |
| 10:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | (or eMMC, not recommended) |
| 10:02.09 | biketool | dd from an archive on your sd or mydocs, also does fsck, and allows you to do bulk storage USB to a PC of whole file system |
| 10:02.20 | biketool | super useful repair tool |
| 10:03.02 | biketool | yea, a tar unspooled onto the partition / and /opt |
| 10:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | with that you installed incompatible kernel modules -> bootloop |
| 10:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel is _not_ on / |
| 10:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | modules are |
| 10:04.01 | tx0h | shall i wait switching to cssu? |
| 10:04.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait for? |
| 10:04.24 | tx0h | for better weather? |
| 10:04.38 | tx0h | i don't know. for stable repository organization |
| 10:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* - sunny here |
| 10:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | use CSSU-S |
| 10:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | should work |
| 10:05.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | T might have 'issues' |
| 10:05.12 | tx0h | at this time the url's changes very often |
| 10:05.29 | tx0h | but i like testing |
| 10:05.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can 'upgrade' to T later |
| 10:06.25 | tx0h | how stale is stable? |
| 10:07.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but T uses a new enabler which depends on pkgs from Nokia/extras-devel and that's why it might break |
| 10:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | rock solid stable |
| 10:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and not stale |
| 10:07.45 | tx0h | i just need to change from fremental to fremental-1.3 |
| 10:08.01 | tx0h | i did it all the time.. |
| 10:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 10:08.33 | tx0h | i mean the url in /etc/apt/sour*.d/.. |
| 10:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're not even supposed to edit that file |
| 10:09.08 | tx0h | it works |
| 10:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 10:09.34 | tx0h | i really hate the application manager, it's lame |
| 10:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | when a symlink works better for you than the original dir |
| 10:09.56 | biketool | cssu has better repo reliability than nokia |
| 10:10.26 | biketool | cssu thumb is an upgrad from cssu |
| 10:10.36 | biketool | has always been stable even with someovercloc |
| 10:10.41 | biketool | for me |
| 10:11.49 | tx0h | is there a roadmap when the new repositories get in place? |
| 10:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, OC never been known as particularly instable, it just reduces your CPU's lifetime to 0.01% of what it was without |
| 10:12.12 | biketool | I think it is mostly an issue with hash |
| 10:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | tx0h: the new repository *is* in place |
| 10:12.39 | biketool | ok, gotta go, thanks |
| 10:13.04 | tx0h | then cssu-t shouldn't be an issue? |
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| 10:13.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't fix expired Nokia key |
| 10:13.50 | tx0h | ah, nokia's fault. now i got you |
| 10:14.58 | tx0h | well, i will try cssu-t now |
| 10:15.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, just install cssu-s and then switch repo from stable to testing |
| 10:15.20 | tx0h | i can live with repository missmatch |
| 10:15.33 | tx0h | hmm.. |
| 10:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and do apt-get install mp-communitiy-pr or somesuch |
| 10:15.52 | tx0h | ok, i go with stable and upgrade |
| 10:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | this will lift you to T |
| 10:16.03 | tx0h | but this doubles the download times |
| 10:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really, since not many apps will get installed again under T |
| 10:16.42 | vi__ | Does anyone know how to add keysets to the pierogi IR remote program? |
| 10:17.06 | vi__ | I would very much like to add my car. |
| 10:17.23 | vi__ | Or more specifically, can I spam stuff strait to /dev/IRLED? |
| 10:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
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| 10:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I#d thing it's using LIRC as backend, no? |
| 10:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | everybody does |
| 10:19.18 | vi__ | I believe he used a bunch of code from LIRC |
| 10:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds nasty |
| 10:20.04 | vi__ | Not really. |
| 10:20.15 | vi__ | It is a very well written program. |
| 10:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | CBA to even ponder how a well written program comes with own kernel driver |
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| 10:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway irled is driven by a timer/divider aka PWM-generator |
| 10:22.17 | vi__ | I wonder how the tv-begone widget does it. |
| 10:22.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the rest is most likely up to 'you', i.e. bitbang the data |
| 10:22.25 | vi__ | Yeah. |
| 10:22.39 | vi__ | It is written entirely in python. |
| 10:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | realtime in python?? :-o |
| 10:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq |
| 10:24.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | tvbegone afaik using lirc driver |
| 10:25.59 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/9xg8R1cs |
| 10:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 10:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | did you need me to spot this? -> |
| 10:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:27.28 | vi__ | Ok, it does use LIRC. |
| 10:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:30.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | LIRC driver is nice, since you don't need to bother about timing. You basically send the morse code to lirc |
| 10:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | as data |
| 10:31.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus the carrier freq |
| 10:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 57kHz, 001110111011101010111011101010100000000111011101010101110111010101 |
| 10:32.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously you also need to define the slot duration for one digit |
| 10:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey! didn't even lurk, but compare this now :-D : |
| 10:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 10:37.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | simon Budig, hmmm. wonder what's been his IRC nick when he came here asking how to implement it |
| 10:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't recall |
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| 11:42.25 | divVerent | 19:11:30 Estel_ | divVerent, you're doing it wrong with dosbox |
| 11:42.38 | divVerent | so expecting the default config to work is wrong? |
| 11:42.42 | divVerent | sounds rather like a package bug then ;) |
| 11:43.19 | divVerent | but seriously the thread has 76 pages... any search terms for the config? |
| 11:45.34 | divVerent | Estel_: http://wiki.maemo.org/DOSBox looks useful, but I may need more than that... as none of this fixes speed |
| 11:45.39 | divVerent | the keyboard fix however is indeed what I need |
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| 12:00.02 | divVerent | Estel_: also, TIM was somewhat ok performance wise in-game, but the intro at the start was jerky...+ |
| 12:00.17 | divVerent | but, mouse clicks were not registered at the right position but about 2 blocks below, which is annoying |
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| 12:05.42 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: can you explain this@ |
| 12:05.43 | vi__ | : |
| 12:05.44 | vi__ | 10:34:14 - DocScrutinizer05: hey! didn't even lurk, but compare this now :-D : |
| 12:05.45 | vi__ | 10:34:16 - DocScrutinizer05: [ 37037, "301000000000001000000000100000000101111001011110124010000000000010000000001000000001011110010111101", |
| 12:05.45 | vi__ | 10:35:20 - DocScrutinizer05: [(440, 450), (440, 1310), (440, 74620), (3460, 1760), (3460, 1780)]], |
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| 12:28.04 | divVerent | The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: |
| 12:28.06 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:28.08 | divVerent | The following packages will be REMOVED: |
| 12:28.10 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:28.12 | divVerent | Great way about sorting things is... |
| 12:28.14 | divVerent | that you have so many criteria to do it by! |
| 12:29.11 | divVerent | (now that I slimmed down my system properly using deborphan, I exported the deborphan data to apt and now use autoremove instead) |
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| 13:33.53 | Estel_ | tvbgone may be using lirc driver, but not lirc package as a whole (dropping dependencies to read IR signals, useless on N900) |
| 13:33.57 | Estel_ | vi__, ping |
| 13:34.17 | Estel_ | no user way to add keysets to pierogi yet - if you have data, send it to Copernicus |
| 13:34.21 | Estel_ | he will gladly include |
| 13:34.34 | Estel_ | or incorporate it into source code and send him patch, event cherrier ;) |
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| 13:35.48 | Estel_ | vi__, btw, once, you've highlighted a good place to bundle xbindkeys automatic startup as user into. While I've found (thanks to help here) other places for it, out of curiosity, could you remind me what it was? |
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| 13:36.16 | Estel_ | can't remember for a life of mine |
| 13:36.37 | Estel_ | BTW, as someone was wrong (tm) here: kp52 *does* support thumb |
| 13:37.03 | Estel_ | so switching from cssu-thumb kernel into kp52 shouldn't result in bootloop. |
| 13:37.28 | Estel_ | not to mention that thumb errors doen't result in bootloop at all, instead, it makes thing crash every few seconds |
| 13:37.37 | Estel_ | programs, desktop, whatever. But it boots. |
| 13:39.43 | Estel_ | divVerent, as for dosbox, I'm on 900 mhz max, and here cpu speed matteres much(all) |
| 13:39.50 | Estel_ | as for config, let me check... |
| 13:40.16 | divVerent | Estel_: I saw one post by you, but the only performance critical things were: |
| 13:40.20 | divVerent | 3 frameskips (hate that) |
| 13:40.28 | divVerent | auto cycles (is default in the current package) |
| 13:40.36 | divVerent | auto core, suggesting dynamic too (auto is default) |
| 13:40.48 | Estel_ | divVerent, it is not noticeable in real life on N900 (3 frameskip). or set it to 2, if you don't like 3 |
| 13:40.55 | divVerent | I set it to 1 for now |
| 13:41.00 | divVerent | that is even ok on a PC for me |
| 13:41.04 | Estel_ | 1-2 are not noticeable for 100%, and give huge performance boost |
| 13:41.13 | divVerent | right |
| 13:41.23 | divVerent | on PC, 2 already annoys me in Stunts |
| 13:41.25 | Estel_ | lemme check config for other things of interest |
| 13:41.41 | divVerent | another somewhat unrelated issue: is there a trick to get sound out of scummvm? |
| 13:41.47 | divVerent | I just can't get music to work in monkey island 1 |
| 13:42.04 | divVerent | it might be bad files, though |
| 13:42.19 | divVerent | so I will verify with the version of MI1 I actually own that I have at home, and not the one I dl'd from the net :P |
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| 13:46.33 | Estel_ | divVerent, beneath a steel sky works with sound in scumm here |
| 13:46.35 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?fa7e2787034583f0#ED4L413vfxIaGflqnj0Wbeoo55omyqYgG5oNYoifuG0= |
| 13:46.39 | Estel_ | for refference |
| 13:46.49 | Estel_ | of course screen things are of interest... |
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| 13:47.08 | Estel_ | + Imve disabled emulation of everything that doesnt need to be emulated, like di,sney or joysticks |
| 13:47.13 | Estel_ | saves some cycles |
| 13:47.47 | Estel_ | of course [sdl] section is most important, check for differencies with your config and experiment |
| 13:48.02 | divVerent | also, scummvm is somewhat stupid to use :( |
| 13:48.07 | divVerent | like, shift-ctrl-m is hard to press |
| 13:48.26 | divVerent | and ctrl-volumekey is just stupid to enable tapping... maybe a job for an xmodmap wrapper |
| 13:48.38 | divVerent | luckily, most SCUMM games don't use many keys ;) |
| 13:48.53 | Estel_ | divVerent, hm, I don't remember such strange keyset for scumm, maybe I've changed smth ;P) |
| 13:49.02 | divVerent | oh, it can be changed? even better |
| 13:49.09 | divVerent | most letter keys in monkey island are purely optional |
| 13:49.17 | divVerent | they enable actions, but you also can just click them in the actions bar |
| 13:49.31 | divVerent | actually... aren't ALL purely optional? :P |
| 13:49.41 | divVerent | esc is the only really required key... and the very one not accessible at all :( |
| 13:49.46 | divVerent | to skip long talks or intro |
| 13:50.02 | Estel_ | maybe... I don't remember, about changing, haven't used scum for a looong time |
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| 13:50.13 | divVerent | I'll see if that can be changed |
| 13:50.17 | Estel_ | and i have esc for sure |
| 13:50.23 | Estel_ | have/had |
| 13:50.25 | divVerent | where did you map it BTW? |
| 13:50.52 | Estel_ | either somewhere in scum config, or maybe it respects maemo hardware keyboard remap, where i defined 99% of keys from full sized keyboard? |
| 13:51.15 | Estel_ | (using 3th and 4th layer, like shift + blue arrow + key, which is easy to press with two fingers) |
| 13:51.33 | Estel_ | as for dosbox, for some games it also help to change emulated machine |
| 13:51.44 | Estel_ | from svga_e3 etc |
| 13:51.52 | Estel_ | but this is per-game thing |
| 13:51.58 | Estel_ | lemme check scum |
| 13:55.22 | Estel_ | well, for sure I need only volume key to disable clicking... without ctrl |
| 13:55.25 | vi__ | Estel_: /etc/X11/xsession.post/90YOURSCRIPTHERE |
| 13:55.36 | Estel_ | and i got same effect by holding shift, but scum doesnt know that |
| 13:55.39 | Estel_ | vi__, thanks |
| 13:56.02 | vi__ | Estel_: I have the sequence and the modulation freq for my car. |
| 13:56.15 | vi__ | I want to open my car with my n900. |
| 13:56.33 | vi__ | Does pierogi have a command line interface? |
| 13:56.35 | Estel_ | vi__, so Copernicus will gladly add it, but you're sure it's opened by infra-red? |
| 13:56.39 | Estel_ | nope |
| 13:56.55 | Estel_ | openin car via infra-red sounds... silly. |
| 13:57.06 | vi__ | ie pierogi --device TV --make SAMSUNG --keyset 1A --command OFF |
| 13:57.25 | Estel_ | vi__, I'm not aware of any command line for pierogi :( |
| 13:57.54 | vi__ | Well my car has IR central locking, all I have to do is send it a sequence to lock/unlock. |
| 13:59.08 | SpeedEvil | you know it may be a rolling code? |
| 13:59.13 | Estel_ | strange, every moron could easily record your ir sequence and repeat it |
| 13:59.17 | vi__ | It is not. |
| 13:59.21 | Estel_ | lol |
| 13:59.25 | SpeedEvil | not simply the same code repeated. |
| 13:59.38 | SpeedEvil | is your car 20 years old? |
| 13:59.42 | vi__ | Welcome to citreon, 1994. |
| 13:59.49 | Estel_ | well, if it's same code repeated, then your car is as hard to open as Any TV |
| 13:59.50 | SpeedEvil | ash |
| 14:00.04 | Estel_ | oh, well. |
| 14:00.17 | vi__ | Not really. |
| 14:00.28 | SpeedEvil | really |
| 14:00.41 | vi__ | You would have to observe the code from my key. |
| 14:00.45 | Estel_ | odds are, that learning remote for tv would be able to open it too |
| 14:00.47 | Estel_ | no problem. |
| 14:00.55 | Estel_ | even from distance (reflections) |
| 14:00.56 | vi__ | Estel_: That is correct. |
| 14:01.19 | Estel_ | anyway, Copernicus will be glad to include first car into pierogi keyset |
| 14:01.43 | Estel_ | if you're happy, that every pierogi user will be able to open your car |
| 14:01.48 | vi__ | The thing is the code from the TX is unique. You have to lock the car to it. |
| 14:02.22 | Estel_ | so either you do own fork of pierogi with patch adding your code |
| 14:02.22 | vi__ | Meh. I do not even need it. I have a key anyway. |
| 14:02.34 | Estel_ | or you install all lirc bundle daemon etc |
| 14:02.38 | Estel_ | and use other way |
| 14:02.53 | Estel_ | coolness factor by opening car via N900, eh? :P |
| 14:03.05 | vi__ | if only there was a nice command line tool that would work from a sh script. |
| 14:03.06 | Estel_ | divVerent, scummvm respect hardware remap |
| 14:03.20 | Estel_ | so in my case, for example, blue arrow + tap = right click |
| 14:03.34 | Estel_ | (same as using right volume key, but the latter is defined in scum configj |
| 14:03.40 | divVerent | hardware remap? |
| 14:03.41 | vi__ | IRSEND --modulation 37k -code 25 44 32 16 7 |
| 14:03.55 | Estel_ | divVerent, see wiki article remapping hardware keyboard |
| 14:04.00 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:04.07 | divVerent | ah, I see |
| 14:04.10 | divVerent | BTW, good idea, this remap |
| 14:04.13 | Estel_ | vi__, can't it be done with lirc driver alone? |
| 14:04.23 | vi__ | maybe. |
| 14:04.24 | divVerent | one of the things I wanted to do anyway, to enable german umlaut keys |
| 14:04.38 | Estel_ | divVerent, it's usefull for many things, like easy debian, or programs from desktop ported to Maemo (without cutting functions) |
| 14:04.40 | vi__ | ~ vikbd |
| 14:04.45 | vi__ | ~vikbd |
| 14:04.50 | Estel_ | heck, IIRC even microB answer to right mouse press, sometimes |
| 14:04.54 | vi__ | ~vi_kbd |
| 14:04.54 | Estel_ | in some cases* |
| 14:05.03 | vi__ | ~vikb |
| 14:05.04 | divVerent | damn, wiki JUST doesn't respond :( |
| 14:05.05 | vi__ | ffs |
| 14:05.20 | Estel_ | ~ping |
| 14:05.20 | infobot | ~pong |
| 14:05.20 | divVerent | ah, works now |
| 14:05.24 | vi__ | fuckit I am going home. |
| 14:05.30 | Estel_ | bb :) |
| 14:05.49 | Estel_ | infobot, now what? |
| 14:05.49 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, now what is 2*4? |
| 14:05.56 | Estel_ | sure |
| 14:06.07 | *** join/#maemo rcg (~rcg@2a02:908:e252:e101:a883:cab:c0bf:e59a) |
| 14:06.19 | Estel_ | ~therapion |
| 14:08.59 | Estel_ | what is now what? |
| 14:09.13 | Estel_ | infobot, what is now what? |
| 14:09.13 | infobot | now what is probably 2*4? |
| 14:10.16 | divVerent | wtf, why does this even work? |
| 14:10.18 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:10.20 | divVerent | I nmean |
| 14:10.29 | divVerent | how does it know that shift-fn-up outputs upper case Ü? |
| 14:10.38 | divVerent | it works, just want to know where X.org does this magic |
| 14:17.26 | divVerent | Estel_: how do you make fn-tap do right mouse button? |
| 14:17.46 | divVerent | installing x11-utils now so I can play with xev |
| 14:18.44 | divVerent | haha, xev actually gets no keyboard events ever... weird |
| 14:22.21 | Estel_ | as for right click |
| 14:22.29 | Estel_ | xbindkeys and xdotool |
| 14:22.34 | Estel_ | (for maemo) |
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| 14:24.27 | Estel_ | divVerent: |
| 14:24.35 | Estel_ | need to put that into xbindkeys config: |
| 14:24.37 | Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?116a1fafa7fa2896#w3CqGLHfFZdoUI1zsVO6h8u7DgdXIN6NdaoS4B8HMvo= |
| 14:24.42 | divVerent | ah, I see |
| 14:25.00 | Estel_ | assume xdotool is present on the system, too |
| 14:25.02 | divVerent | bit cleaner than abusing xkbset |
| 14:26.14 | Estel_ | I used to bind F1-F12 to upper row keys by xbindkeys, too, but switched to doing so in hardware remap way |
| 14:26.22 | Estel_ | aka rx-51 file |
| 14:26.42 | Estel_ | as it works for more things than xbindkeys used too |
| 14:27.11 | Estel_ | (yes, I have F1-F12 mapped too, as said 99% of full sized keyboard :P ) |
| 14:27.40 | Estel_ | including chars like |><%$^~[]}{ |
| 14:27.48 | Estel_ | very convenient |
| 14:27.58 | Estel_ | (I'm writing it from N900 even now :P) |
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| 14:30.33 | divVerent | Estel_: upper row? you mean on crappy keybinds like Fn+Ctrl+Q = F1? ;) |
| 14:33.19 | Estel_ | no, why |
| 14:33.36 | Estel_ | blue arrow + shift (which is easily covered by one finger) + q |
| 14:33.40 | Estel_ | = F1 |
| 14:34.03 | Estel_ | fn + ctrl is more complicated as it is Sym table |
| 14:34.05 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 14:34.24 | Estel_ | from practice, btw, shift and blue arrow is very conveinent |
| 14:34.39 | Estel_ | btw shift + blue arrow is somethng different than blue arrow + shift |
| 14:34.41 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 14:35.00 | Estel_ | normally it doesn't matter, but could be abused to bind even more |
| 14:35.25 | Estel_ | it's just that I already managed to have full keyboard binded to N900 keyboard, so no need to complicate things |
| 14:35.33 | Estel_ | xes, ping |
| 14:37.25 | divVerent | hm... would like to see your keybind file then :) maybe even on the wiki |
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| 14:44.43 | Estel_ | divVerent, why not, but it's also filled with polish characters, so would require clean-up :) |
| 14:45.17 | Estel_ | I use unusual approach to local things, though. Instead of binding special letters a whole, I bind dead_ components |
| 14:45.28 | Estel_ | like dead_ogonek |
| 14:45.37 | Estel_ | or dead_dot |
| 14:45.43 | Estel_ | Ë™ |
| 14:46.11 | Estel_ | or dead_accute. So, I have it binded to shift + blue arrow to some key... |
| 14:46.21 | Estel_ | then, I use it to mix with any letter I want |
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| 14:46.51 | divVerent | Estel_: that's actually a nice idea... |
| 14:47.01 | Estel_ | this way, using only one key for ´ I have possibility to invoke all leter mixed with ´, for example ć ó ń ź etc |
| 14:47.03 | divVerent | currently I put ÄÖÜß on arrows... but as I will soon move to Switzerland... |
| 14:47.17 | divVerent | it may be better to put dead diaresis, acute, grave on three of them |
| 14:47.22 | divVerent | and keep ß when writing to Germans ;) |
| 14:47.28 | Estel_ | and, after some practice, it's very natural way of writing, no slower than using accented letter directly |
| 14:47.40 | divVerent | I remember this way of writing from the TI-92 ;) |
| 14:47.46 | Estel_ | hehe |
| 14:48.03 | Estel_ | there is only one irritating thing, no working dead slash :( |
| 14:48.08 | Estel_ | so Å‚ have to be letter |
| 14:48.17 | Estel_ | due to bug in x-something |
| 14:48.32 | divVerent | compose key? |
| 14:48.40 | Estel_ | won't work, tried |
| 14:48.46 | divVerent | oh, ok |
| 14:48.52 | Estel_ | so doing a capitalised Å‚ is PITA |
| 14:49.23 | Estel_ | dead slash or how it's called should work, but it just doesnt |
| 14:49.30 | Estel_ | same apply, probably, to slashed o in nordic |
| 14:49.46 | Estel_ | or is it dead_strike |
| 14:49.55 | Estel_ | anyway, it just don't work with that single dead only :( |
| 14:51.57 | Estel_ | to capitalise Å‚ I need to enable caps lock then invoke it with blue arrow only... |
| 14:52.06 | Estel_ | which is only one problematic key |
| 14:52.11 | divVerent | damn, ccedilla is not possible to enter via `c or the like |
| 14:52.21 | divVerent | I might need that TOO... |
| 14:52.29 | Estel_ | are you sure youmre using dead? |
| 14:52.30 | Estel_ | hm |
| 14:52.40 | divVerent | thing is, I can only map 3 of the arrow keys |
| 14:52.50 | divVerent | left is grave, middle is diaeresis, right is acute |
| 14:52.54 | divVerent | up I need for ß |
| 14:52.56 | Estel_ | need to use shift + blue arrow + c |
| 14:53.21 | divVerent | they currently do the same for me as unshifted :P |
| 14:53.32 | Estel_ | btw I'm not sure if mapping things to arrow is good idea |
| 14:53.46 | Estel_ | won't you lose capability to highlight text by shift + arrow? |
| 14:53.54 | divVerent | haha, seems easy to fix |
| 14:54.01 | Estel_ | hm? |
| 14:54.04 | divVerent | yes, which is why I only remap fn-arrow |
| 14:54.07 | divVerent | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.19 | divVerent | note that quite explicitly fn-a and shift-fn-a are equal |
| 14:54.22 | divVerent | so I can map these two differently |
| 14:54.44 | divVerent | great, means lots of easy space for symbols :P |
| 14:54.51 | Estel_ | that's what I toldya |
| 14:55.04 | divVerent | yes, I just don't get the ordering of these, what these levels mean |
| 14:55.10 | divVerent | editing existing definitions is easy though |
| 14:55.16 | Estel_ | blue arrow = fn (well, in fact it's not fn but AltGr, but no one know it, so I call it blue arrow to avoid confusion) |
| 14:55.30 | Estel_ | first thing is keystroke |
| 14:55.37 | Estel_ | another keystroke + shift |
| 14:55.40 | divVerent | ok, need to take out the TI-92 to see how it mapped the dead keys... so I can use my old "finger mapping" ;) |
| 14:56.04 | divVerent | ah, diaeresis was on U |
| 14:56.07 | Estel_ | later is blue arrow + keystroke and later shift + blue arrow + keystroke |
| 14:56.19 | divVerent | the logic behind these was apparently, 2nd+key is the dead key most commonly used with that key |
| 14:56.27 | divVerent | so 2nd-u yielded the diaeresis because ü is common :P |
| 14:56.32 | Estel_ | no idea how to achieve shift + blue arrow + keystroke, without altering what happens with shift + keystroke |
| 14:56.45 | Estel_ | (so arrows would still allow to higlight text by shift and arrowing) |
| 14:57.04 | divVerent | and yes, I will probbaly undo the arrow change and rather go the TI-92-like route... mainly because I once was used to it |
| 14:57.08 | Estel_ | hey, I replicated this logic |
| 14:57.09 | divVerent | so I probably will easily get used to it again |
| 14:57.17 | Estel_ | without using TI-92 ever :P |
| 14:57.24 | divVerent | also put the dead keys similarily? |
| 14:57.30 | divVerent | on the same key as the letter you often use it with? |
| 14:57.36 | Estel_ | I also mapped dead key to most commonly used key with that dead |
| 14:57.38 | divVerent | i.e. most of them on vowel keys, especially |
| 14:58.11 | divVerent | ah, TI used: |
| 14:58.14 | divVerent | 2nd-A is grave |
| 14:58.17 | Estel_ | yea, at the same key where it is most used |
| 14:58.18 | divVerent | 2nd-C is dead cedille |
| 14:58.21 | divVerent | 2nd-E is acute |
| 14:58.22 | divVerent | 2nd-N is tilde |
| 14:58.26 | divVerent | 2nd-O is caret |
| 14:58.29 | divVerent | 2nd-U is umlaut |
| 14:58.30 | Estel_ | just that I made it for polish especially |
| 14:58.41 | divVerent | that should cover ALL the languages spoken in Switzerland ;) |
| 14:58.47 | Estel_ | :) |
| 14:59.05 | Estel_ | thank goodness I need to have only polish and english |
| 14:59.15 | divVerent | in .ch, I'd mainly need the others for place names |
| 14:59.24 | Estel_ | understandable |
| 14:59.25 | divVerent | also, I am German, but Swiss-German handles French-origin words differently |
| 14:59.29 | divVerent | they actually spell them in original French |
| 14:59.32 | Estel_ | but complicated, still ;) |
| 14:59.32 | divVerent | i.e. with all accents retained |
| 14:59.38 | divVerent | while "regular" German strips the accents |
| 15:00.09 | Estel_ | I'm all for multi-cultural, but it makes keyboard mapping a mess |
| 15:01.23 | Estel_ | ...which reminds me that I should already start making "traditional" polish dinner of Spaghetti, for hungry family |
| 15:01.27 | Estel_ | see ya later! |
| 15:04.39 | divVerent | cu |
| 15:04.49 | divVerent | while at it, adding mapping for <> | :P |
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| 15:12.03 | divVerent | argh... SOUNDED easy... but I just put <> where [] would have belonged ;) |
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| 15:19.56 | divVerent | Estel_: getting a funny bug, can you check if your mapping has the issue too? |
| 15:20.11 | divVerent | shift+fn+J and shift+fn+K always output BOTH assigned keybinds |
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| 15:20.24 | divVerent | aloso visible in the default binds, where these two both enter )& |
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| 15:27.59 | divVerent | http://pastebin.com/ARf4QHru - my current binds now BTW |
| 15:28.14 | divVerent | NoSymbol on Shift+Fn+K to avoid the bug |
| 15:28.52 | divVerent | BTW, a second plausible mapping would be dead grave on b, dead acute on v, dead diaeresis on n |
| 15:28.55 | divVerent | then they match the blue symbols |
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| 15:34.06 | kerio | divVerent: it's a problem of the keyboard |
| 15:34.14 | kerio | shift+fn+z and shift+fn+x are the same thing |
| 15:34.26 | kerio | same as... shift+fn+k and shift+fn+l i think? |
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| 15:41.39 | divVerent | funny problem :P |
| 15:41.51 | divVerent | indeed, z+x exhibit it too |
| 15:42.00 | divVerent | kl do not, but jk do |
| 15:42.29 | divVerent | and yes, I was assuming it must be a HW problem |
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| 16:22.58 | divVerent | ok, here I have another question... how would one "harden" Maemo so a web browser exploit cannot get root rights |
| 16:23.10 | divVerent | one obvious thing I did: I removed the NOPASSWD: from the gainroot entry in sudoers, and set a user password |
| 16:23.25 | divVerent | but I noticed quite a lot of sudoers entries that suffice to gain root |
| 16:24.00 | divVerent | e.g. /usr/sbin/osso-prepare-partition.sh can be run with any args via sudo, and passing "/path/to/destination if=/path/to/source" can copy any file up to 512 bytes size as root |
| 16:24.11 | divVerent | which suffices to become root by rewriting /etc/shadow and /etc/passwd ;) |
| 16:24.43 | divVerent | and yes, i know this threat is VERY unlikely... DesktopLinux/ARM is not targeted much, unlike e.g. Android/ARM |
| 16:25.33 | divVerent | basically: where should I address bugs in sudoers-run programs? |
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| 16:26.16 | divVerent | also, I know quite well that hardening the system in such a way would require getting rid of hildon-application-manager, which is actually DESIGNED to enable installation of software without root permissions ;) |
| 16:27.10 | divVerent | so basically, where are security bugs in Maemo "core" packages to be reported to? |
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| 16:56.27 | merlin1991 | divVerent: cssu if anywhere |
| 16:58.21 | divVerent | and is there a policy to keep such things secret, or is it ok to freely publish them on the bug tracker (usually I'd attach a fixing patch)? |
| 16:59.24 | divVerent | probably the latter, given that most users quite intentionally allow "sudo gainroot" without any questions asked ;) |
| 17:00.08 | divVerent | (which is also why I'd never report this as "bug" for the rootsh package - if it's what the user wants, then it's right and not a bug) |
| 17:02.00 | merlin1991 | we actually never had a policy for security bugs |
| 17:02.16 | merlin1991 | we as in the cssu team, nokia obviously had some |
| 17:02.31 | divVerent | but Nokia is totally out by now, I think |
| 17:02.33 | divVerent | or not? |
| 17:02.39 | merlin1991 | yes it is |
| 17:03.55 | divVerent | and the N900 is by default designed to be rootable... so what I want to find out, is a) how to close down the intentional holes, and b) how to fix the unintentional ones :P |
| 17:04.32 | divVerent | the most obvious intentional one is that one can enter custom repositories into hildon-application-manager. I suppose making the catalogues XML file immutable via chattr would "fix" this one ;) |
| 17:04.52 | divVerent | of course, it's the very feature because of which I have a N900 |
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| 17:05.45 | divVerent | so my end goal would be fixing ALL the holes, but allowing root login via sudo with password (or ssh with a key for root) |
| 17:06.04 | FIQ | the issue with HAM is that it allows installation of stuff (which can give root easily) without authencation |
| 17:06.15 | divVerent | that issue also exists, but IIRC can be fixed on APT level |
| 17:06.21 | divVerent | by making signatures mandatory |
| 17:06.33 | FIQ | personally I don't care, I don't see any reason for people to steal my phone and do stuff |
| 17:06.44 | divVerent | so one of my suggestions for hardening would be getting rid of HAM entirely, and using apt-get via a controlled root shell |
| 17:06.56 | deepy | sudo ham |
| 17:07.04 | divVerent | yes, or removing its sudo rights ;) |
| 17:07.05 | FIQ | and if they do, they wont find anything interesting (besides the raw value of N900 obviously) |
| 17:07.07 | divVerent | and running it as root then |
| 17:07.10 | merlin1991 | using ham assumes you're the device user |
| 17:07.15 | divVerent | exactly |
| 17:07.25 | merlin1991 | so it is not "unsafe" |
| 17:07.34 | divVerent | the thing is, a web browser exploit (for example) can use the very same sudo commands HAM uses to spawn and talk to apt-worker |
| 17:07.34 | merlin1991 | unless you hand your phone to random strangers unlocked |
| 17:07.37 | divVerent | thus install stuff |
| 17:07.48 | FIQ | merlin1991: that's my point :p |
| 17:07.49 | divVerent | I am mainly worried about impact of browser exploits |
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| 17:07.58 | divVerent | that the GUI assumes you are the owner is ok |
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| 17:08.39 | divVerent | so one other step would also be attemptting to sandbox the browser |
| 17:08.51 | divVerent | probably futile, as we WANT the browser to be able to spawn e.g. the word processor |
| 17:09.00 | divVerent | and running as different user IDs would be problematic |
| 17:09.52 | divVerent | also, whatever I do, an exploit can always read the MMC or VFAT partition |
| 17:09.55 | divVerent | i.e. get ALL the photos ;) |
| 17:10.12 | divVerent | issue shared with Android, BTW |
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| 17:14.49 | r00t^home | divVerent: you can fix most of that by installing android on your n900 ;) |
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| 17:24.52 | kerio | divVerent: there's no /etc/shadow |
| 17:25.03 | kerio | so if you have passwordful sudo, your security is worth shit |
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| 18:19.32 | thomasjfox_ | hey there. Any news about the maemo build system? I didn't follow the discussions lately and thought about doing a new rockbox release soon |
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| 18:38.57 | sixwheeledbeast | thomasjfox_ it's getting there, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89273 |
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| 18:39.57 | sixwheeledbeast | mmm, got a screw in the display module that will not come out, grr. |
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| 18:40.39 | thomasjfox_ | sixwheeledbeast: yey! thanks. |
| 18:41.13 | thomasjfox_ | I'll try the build system on the mentioned IP soonish ;) |
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| 18:42.07 | thomasjfox_ | and I need to fork over some $$$ to keep this effort running. the n900 is still the best phone for me (proper keyboard) |
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| 18:46.20 | sixwheeledbeast | anybody got any ideas on removing a rounded ph00 screw from a display module? |
| 18:47.07 | ShadowJK | 1mm reverse drill bit |
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| 18:47.40 | sixwheeledbeast | ShadowJK: you tested that? |
| 18:47.50 | ShadowJK | no |
| 18:48.22 | ShadowJK | not with that particular screw |
| 18:48.28 | ShadowJK | or on a N900 at all |
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| 18:49.11 | ShadowJK | But in many cases when you start drilling into a screw with a reverse drill (one that spins counter clockwise when drilling down), the screw will start turning |
| 18:49.25 | ShadowJK | If it doesn't, you glue a rod into the hole you just made, wait for it to set |
| 18:49.35 | sixwheeledbeast | five of hem are out and this last one came out a little then got really tight and snapped the screwdriver bit. |
| 18:50.08 | sixwheeledbeast | I am trying to glue the broken screwdriver bit to the screw atm |
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| 20:04.05 | xes | M4rtinK: ping |
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| 20:08.10 | M4rtinK | xes: pong :) |
| 20:08.24 | M4rtinK | xes: got your email ! :) |
| 20:08.29 | M4rtinK | xes: thanks ! :) |
| 20:10.20 | xes | M4rtinK: have you seen something interesting? Most of this is just a quick hack, but it could be interesting if integrated in a proper way |
| 20:11.01 | M4rtinK | xes: yep, my plan is to use this as a base for an import feature |
| 20:11.53 | M4rtinK | something like --import-gns /path/to.db |
| 20:12.32 | M4rtinK | and eventually also interactive import triggered from the GUI (file open dialog, etc.) |
| 20:13.20 | M4rtinK | will also try to improve POI handling when I'm at it :) |
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| 20:13.44 | M4rtinK | not sure about the timeframe but lets say "soon" :) |
| 20:15.15 | xes | great! The funcion to calculate the distance should be a little optimized, i had to cut a few steps to reduce the time of execution of the script but attached there is also the original readable funcion in the other script |
| 20:16.19 | xes | btw, just an idea to help the offline users! ;) |
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| 20:25.53 | xes | M4rtinK: as you can see, gns files have a fixed link for the download (http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/namefiles.htm)so i think you could point to them directly in the import wizard |
| 20:28.39 | M4rtinK | xes: good point - that would also be a nice feature :) |
| 20:29.03 | M4rtinK | xes: BTW, do they update them regularly ? |
| 20:29.19 | M4rtinK | regarding distance calculation |
| 20:29.58 | M4rtinK | modRana has some quite optimized distance calculation functions |
| 20:30.08 | M4rtinK | (rewritten from Marble :)) |
| 20:31.07 | xes | for sure faster than my bash function! Gns update that files about every 1 or 2 months |
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| 20:33.37 | xes | ..while italian users would be very happy of the "poi gps" import feature |
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| 20:48.52 | M4rtinK | xes: poi gps ? |
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| 22:10.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeled|away: be *careful* with glue! odds are you glue the screw in place instead of helping with getting it unscrewed |
| 22:11.10 | ShadowJK | That's a big risk with screws this small... |
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| 22:23.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: assuming Nokia(core) has access to the SW-admin-GPGkey but isn't willing to hand it out to Nokia-affiliates. What file would Matti need to send to NokiaCore to have it signed there by the SW-key? Could you investigate how such a scenario could still work? |
| 22:23.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: Release |
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| 22:24.25 | kerio | (but wait for Pali's or merlin1991's confirmation) |
| 22:24.43 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, he only needs to sign Release file on each apt line repository |
| 22:24.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I thought as much, but we'd need *details* and in-depth investigation if we were to send such a suggestion to NokiaAffiliates |
| 22:24.54 | Pali | and store signature into file Release.gpg |
| 22:25.34 | jacekowski | what keys are we talking about here? |
| 22:25.44 | Pali | nokia gpg key for ssu/ovi |
| 22:25.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: could you write up a *detailed* (to the commandline, with arguments and FQN-filenames) instruction how to do that? |
| 22:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: could you help? |
| 22:26.21 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, matti already wrote that they have infrastructure & scripts for that |
| 22:26.36 | Pali | and he know how to fix it |
| 22:26.40 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: gpg --list-keys and then gpg --export-key key_id |
| 22:26.50 | Pali | jacekowski, no |
| 22:27.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think Matti doesn't exactly know what key to apply where, that's why he says they have scripts that do *standard* stuff for them |
| 22:27.15 | jacekowski | Pali: ? |
| 22:27.22 | kerio | jacekowski: not to export the key, to sign the Release file and create a Release.gpg |
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| 22:27.47 | jacekowski | ahm |
| 22:27.50 | Pali | jacekowski: they need to change gpg key |
| 22:28.01 | jacekowski | they? |
| 22:28.02 | Pali | public part is already hardcoded in maemo |
| 22:28.10 | Pali | they = nokia |
| 22:28.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: on device we have two pubkeys for SSU: one normal one which is expired, and a SW-admin key. |
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| 22:29.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: Nokia-affiliates has only normal expired private key to sign SSU with |
| 22:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | We need to update that pubkey to a extended validity date, and for that we need signature from SW-admin private-key |
| 22:30.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is owned by Nokia-Core, not affiliates |
| 22:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | to install a new cert with extended validity, that package needs to get signed by a valid key which is SW-adm-key |
| 22:31.22 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, from matti's mails I understand that he know how to fix this it but he wrote that that swadmin key is used somewhere in nokia and he needs permission to use it |
| 22:31.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 22:32.33 | jacekowski | no |
| 22:32.46 | jacekowski | all you have to do is edit the expired key and then send it to key servers |
| 22:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I suggest to send a detailed instruction how to go alternative path and send file to key for signature and then get signed file back. since I guess NokiaCore won't grant access/permission for SW-adm key to Matti |
| 22:32.57 | jacekowski | and then somehow device has to find out that key is updated |
| 22:32.59 | kerio | jacekowski: and then tell the n900 users to download the updated key? |
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| 22:33.15 | kerio | you're funny |
| 22:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: somehow, yeah |
| 22:33.23 | kerio | the whole point is that we want to avoid that |
| 22:33.28 | Pali | jacekowski, chicken & egg problem |
| 22:33.50 | Pali | you cannot update gpg key without working ssu repo and you cannot update ssu repo without working gpg key... |
| 22:33.59 | kerio | because it's basically just a matter of trying to avoid having to poison n900-fmrx-enabler in extras |
| 22:34.17 | Pali | jacekowski, and now gpg key is not working, so ssu repo is not working |
| 22:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: kerio: please write up an alternative suggestion that does _not_ involve Matti getting possession of SW-adm privkey |
| 22:34.59 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, without access to nokia server, there is no alternative solution |
| 22:35.13 | jacekowski | kerio: why fmrx-enabler? |
| 22:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it goes like "matti sends xy file to NokiaCore. NokiaCore signs xy file with SW-adm key and sends back to Matti. Matti does...." |
| 22:35.37 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, nokia must update that invalid key (change it or exdent expiration) |
| 22:35.47 | Pali | we cannot do anything with expired gpg key |
| 22:35.48 | kerio | jacekowski: because it's from extras |
| 22:35.51 | kerio | and we control extras |
| 22:36.07 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, matti has that gpg key |
| 22:36.17 | kerio | HAM will ignore updates to packages that are originally from dmnc that come from extras |
| 22:36.17 | Pali | so he can sign repos |
| 22:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you said he doesn't |
| 22:36.39 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, matti needs permission from nokia to do that |
| 22:37.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | believe me, that might mean he does NOT have access to SW-adm-prickey, and that "permission2 implies he thinks Nokia will send that privkey to him for usage |
| 22:37.34 | freemangordon | "I get comments from time to time expressing the mistaken notion that Hildon Foundation was founded just to save maemo.org, and it is not limited in that way." |
| 22:37.40 | freemangordon | WTF? |
| 22:38.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the whole thing might never happen |
| 22:38.18 | jacekowski | so the plan would be to sign repo with sw-adm key and distribute package with updated ssu key that way? |
| 22:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless we suggest a way how somebody else (here: NokiaCore) can use the SW-adm privkey to some file Matti sent |
| 22:38.43 | kerio | jacekowski: the plan would be to sign repo with sw-adm key |
| 22:38.47 | kerio | period |
| 22:38.56 | jacekowski | and then what? |
| 22:39.00 | jacekowski | what if we want to change it |
| 22:39.09 | kerio | this is download.maemo.nokia.com |
| 22:39.10 | freemangordon | jacekowski: nothing, it will start to work |
| 22:39.23 | kerio | they won't change jack shit in it, realistically |
| 22:39.32 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, look at matti email, he wrote that he has that key |
| 22:39.38 | freemangordon | jacekowski: RMO is a different animal |
| 22:39.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: the idea is to distribute an updated standard key via that new repo "revision" signed by SW-adm key |
| 22:39.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: we don;t really need that |
| 22:40.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: No, he said "we have that key", which can mean that NokiaCore has it |
| 22:40.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that Matti dude already said that there's no way whatsoever to prepare a new PR |
| 22:40.51 | jacekowski | is extras repo enabled by default on n900 (not extras devel) |
| 22:40.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I doubt nokia will make an effort to make a new PR |
| 22:40.58 | kerio | jacekowski: it is in pr1.2 onwards |
| 22:41.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need "a new PR" |
| 22:41.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nokia doesn't release updates to single packages |
| 22:41.26 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure, but distribution of a new key means PR |
| 22:41.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need a new cert delivered via SSU |
| 22:41.28 | jacekowski | so why don't we just distribute some core package in version 999999 using extras repo |
| 22:41.29 | kerio | even for maemosec-certman they made a new pr |
| 22:41.35 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I understand that matti has that key. but I sent new email so we can wait for responce |
| 22:41.38 | kerio | jacekowski: because HAM will ignore it |
| 22:41.42 | jacekowski | why? |
| 22:41.49 | jacekowski | we can sign extras |
| 22:41.52 | kerio | because of the fucking trust bullshit HAM does |
| 22:41.52 | freemangordon | because it is the way HAM works |
| 22:41.56 | Pali | I can ask him what is true (if he has key or not) |
| 22:42.08 | kerio | freemangordon: "fucking trust bullshit" is the correct term, please be precise |
| 22:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: if you don't believe in my view on what this kind of mails means, then too bad |
| 22:42.16 | freemangordon | kerio: ok, ok :) |
| 22:42.28 | jacekowski | what trust stuff |
| 22:42.37 | kerio | jacekowski: HAM has something similar to apt pinning |
| 22:42.38 | jacekowski | it's a normal package signed with *trusted* key |
| 22:42.41 | freemangordon | jacekowski: we *MIGHT* be able to do that, by using fmrx-enabler |
| 22:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me the fact that nothing happened since 6 weeks is obvious indication of what's actually going on |
| 22:42.50 | freemangordon | but that wont reach 100% of the devices |
| 22:42.55 | kerio | it's a normal package signed with a trusted key in a domain with trust level lower than nokia-system |
| 22:43.07 | kerio | HAM /will/ ignore that package |
| 22:43.18 | freemangordon | kerio: fmtx-enabler? |
| 22:43.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia will never allow to use SWadm key as standard signing key used on buildserver |
| 22:43.36 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: they don;t need it on their build server |
| 22:43.37 | kerio | n900-fmtx-enabler comes from extras, so we could abuse that, but it's awful |
| 22:43.47 | freemangordon | kerio: it is in PR too |
| 22:43.51 | kerio | er, fmrx-enabler |
| 22:43.55 | kerio | freemangordon: is it? |
| 22:44.04 | freemangordon | kerio: so I am not sure what will be the outcome |
| 22:44.08 | freemangordon | kerio: yes |
| 22:44.17 | kerio | urgh, the highest version is from dmnc |
| 22:44.24 | kerio | so that's probably bunk |
| 22:44.30 | freemangordon | but I remember seeing it in HAM |
| 22:44.37 | freemangordon | when upgrading pr1.2 -> pr1.3 |
| 22:44.39 | kerio | freemangordon: because it's a user package |
| 22:44.49 | kerio | that's irrelevant |
| 22:44.50 | freemangordon | kerio: so maybe it will work after all |
| 22:45.03 | kerio | freemangordon: HAM will only *increase* the trust level of a package |
| 22:45.05 | kerio | never decrease it |
| 22:45.22 | freemangordon | kerio: but right now nokia repo has 0 trust IIUC |
| 22:45.31 | kerio | the package is at trust level 600 |
| 22:45.37 | freemangordon | hmm, yes |
| 22:45.47 | kerio | if we had a virgin n900 we could check |
| 22:45.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need a package that deploys new cert for standard key, in *some* pkg in SSU so it propagates to all devices. Then this new version of repo needs to get signed with SWadm key |
| 22:45.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why hello there |
| 22:46.10 | kerio | do you have a completely vanilla n900? |
| 22:46.29 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no way nokia to release a single package |
| 22:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: why? |
| 22:46.57 | jacekowski | well, thing is why do we care about ssu? |
| 22:47.15 | kerio | jacekowski: you know, i'm not entirely sure |
| 22:47.15 | jacekowski | for newly flashed devices, we can update fiasco with our keys |
| 22:47.16 | Pali | all: I think that we can wait until matti wrote response |
| 22:47.27 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: remember what that nokian said - n900 is on some "aftermarket" support |
| 22:47.28 | Pali | with invalid gpg key we cannot do nothing |
| 22:47.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: because no friggin luser can update/reinstall anything from Nokia repos anymore |
| 22:47.43 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: fwiw users aren't supposed to |
| 22:47.48 | jacekowski | and all other devices have up to date stuff from nokia repos |
| 22:47.54 | freemangordon | jacekowski: you can't even upgrade to PR1.3 after flashing |
| 22:48.02 | kerio | the main issue is a user buying a new n900 or reflashing it and then not updating to 1.3.1 |
| 22:48.22 | kerio | but then again, 1.3.1 won't help them against TURKTRUST anyway |
| 22:48.24 | jacekowski | we can modify PR1.2 image to have our key |
| 22:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq! |
| 22:48.37 | kerio | dafaq, indeed |
| 22:48.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT's something Nokia will NOT do for us |
| 22:48.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: couldn't we use the excuse of turktrust to get nokia to release a security update? |
| 22:49.00 | Pali | jacekowski, but this does not change gpg signature on nokia server! |
| 22:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 22:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is why they came to us |
| 22:49.16 | jacekowski | Pali: move shit to our servers |
| 22:49.30 | freemangordon | kerio: all of the maemo knowhow is non-existent in Nokia anymore |
| 22:49.33 | Pali | kerio, I think no, because support for n900 finished... |
| 22:49.41 | freemangordon | they just don;t know how to make a PR, I bet |
| 22:49.42 | kerio | massive security issue on a nokia product! |
| 22:49.48 | freemangordon | Pali: it is not |
| 22:49.55 | freemangordon | there are still devices in warranty |
| 22:50.17 | Pali | tablets-dev is down |
| 22:50.30 | freemangordon | since forever :) |
| 22:50.36 | Pali | I think that nokia care can work without gpg key |
| 22:50.45 | Pali | they have pr 1.3.1 fiasco images |
| 22:50.49 | Pali | (I have it too) |
| 22:50.54 | freemangordon | what? |
| 22:50.57 | freemangordon | ooh |
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| 22:51.07 | jacekowski | i think, correct way to deal with it would be to modify 1.2 image and change https://downloads.m |
| 22:51.08 | freemangordon | hmm, that might work |
| 22:51.13 | kerio | jacekowski: why 1.2? |
| 22:51.15 | kerio | :s |
| 22:51.21 | jacekowski | that's the latest "official" one |
| 22:51.21 | freemangordon | yes, why PR1.2 |
| 22:51.22 | freemangordon | ? |
| 22:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1,2????? |
| 22:51.30 | freemangordon | jacekowski: no, it is PR1.3 |
| 22:51.31 | kerio | also, again - this is not an issue for any "future" release we make |
| 22:51.32 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, what about publishing pr1.3.1 fiasco image?? |
| 22:51.43 | freemangordon | Pali: with fixed keys? |
| 22:51.49 | kerio | hell, we could put cssu-stable in there with fixed keys and all that jazz |
| 22:51.50 | Pali | with that security update? |
| 22:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice but not exacly a root solution |
| 22:52.04 | kerio | the issue is existing n900s in the hand of lusers |
| 22:52.08 | Pali | because people cannot update to pr1.3.1 |
| 22:52.11 | kerio | (they do exist!) |
| 22:52.15 | jacekowski | i think, correct way to deal with it would be to modify 1.2 image and change https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ to like https://nokia.maemo.org/fremantle/ssu/apps/ |
| 22:52.26 | jacekowski | and change nokia key to our key |
| 22:52.31 | Pali | and pr1.3.1 is security update |
| 22:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF !:"???? |
| 22:52.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1.2 even |
| 22:52.51 | jacekowski | or even 1.3.1 |
| 22:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got PR1.3 fiasco |
| 22:53.00 | jacekowski | but then, 1.3.1 will never need SSU |
| 22:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we got NO PR1.3.1 fiasco |
| 22:53.24 | Pali | I have it |
| 22:53.25 | jacekowski | we can make one |
| 22:53.37 | Pali | and it can be downloaded from nokia.com |
| 22:53.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus when somebody reflashes, he can't update to PR1.3.1 |
| 22:53.48 | jacekowski | we can make 1.3.1 fiasco |
| 22:53.52 | jacekowski | or 1.5 if we want to |
| 22:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 22:54.07 | Pali | I *have* official nokia pr 1.3.1 image! |
| 22:54.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | we want SSU fixed |
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| 22:55.10 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, wait for matti email |
| 22:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can create a pr1.3.1 any time, and provide it, or use the existing one (first time I hear of it) - but that's absolutely unrelated to our expired-key issue with Matti |
| 22:55.48 | jacekowski | if we have latest fiasco image we don't need SSU anymore |
| 22:56.04 | jacekowski | it's not like anything is going to be ever released through there |
| 22:56.18 | Pali | jacekowski, we need ssu |
| 22:56.28 | Pali | ssu has packages which are not in fiasco image |
| 22:56.37 | Pali | and some extras apps depends on them |
| 22:56.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | what you suggested to Matti so far been "use SW-adm key instead of SSU key" which implies that SW-adm key would get installed unlocked and with password on production server to resign the repo |
| 22:56.53 | Pali | so you will not able to install more extras packages |
| 22:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to offer an alternative since that will *not* happen |
| 22:57.03 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: no |
| 22:57.20 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: all they have to do is sign one file with SW-adm key |
| 22:57.38 | jacekowski | Pali: what about moving that stuff into extras |
| 22:57.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | jacekowski: yes, *I* know that |
| 22:57.51 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I think you do not understand how apt gpg working |
| 22:58.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but matti does NOT know it, believe me |
| 22:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ooh, i don't ?? |
| 22:58.22 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, what what matti wrote and we can ask him more |
| 22:58.28 | Pali | or write possible solutions |
| 22:58.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you see what matti wrote last two answers |
| 22:59.10 | Pali | yes I see and I think he know how to update it |
| 22:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't trust in my capabilities to read and interprete such mails.... |
| 22:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tell you he doesn't |
| 22:59.45 | Pali | ok, I will wait for answer |
| 22:59.49 | jacekowski | there is another option |
| 23:00.03 | jacekowski | we can factorize that key |
| 23:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can already tell you his answer: "we're still thinking. there were more important things" |
| 23:00.50 | Pali | jacekowski, I will look at that key |
| 23:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | now, you know the answer he'll send on tuesday, what you gonna do? |
| 23:01.37 | jacekowski | well, do we know physical location of that key |
| 23:01.40 | Pali | jacekowski: 1024bit DSA |
| 23:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | "we are thinking" means they don't exactly understand how to proceed |
| 23:01.50 | jacekowski | can we apply rubberhose cryptoanalysis? |
| 23:02.16 | kerio | pffft |
| 23:02.35 | RST38h | thermorectal cryptoanalysis you mean? |
| 23:02.37 | kerio | i feel that maemo could go much better if we had access to a ninja squad to storm the nokia HQ and steal the source code |
| 23:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and "we are thinking2 been exactly their last two answers |
| 23:03.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how good do you look in a black ninja suit? |
| 23:03.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch my "avatar" on tmo. Do you think I'm one of the guys that need a black ninja siut? |
| 23:04.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the "company" wwe have othwer dresscode |
| 23:04.40 | RST38h | leather? |
| 23:05.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | if needed, eventually also leather (mostly jacket) - but "the men in black" term been minted for a reason |
| 23:06.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and plack doesn't imply ninja siut |
| 23:06.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | black* (damn) |
| 23:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, our suggestion to Matti been bogus. a proper fix needs a new cert deployed fro standard key which holds valid for another few years. Simply resigning current repo with SWadm key doesn't really fix stuff |
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| 23:09.13 | Pali | jacekowski, key is DES1 (1024 bit) with SHA1 self signature |
| 23:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | since for next change that might be needed we again face same problem that we don't have access to SWadm private key |
| 23:10.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I bet Nokia(Matti) came to us asking for that expired-key issue *because* they want to deploy a turksat security update |
| 23:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | so pretty please rethink your suggestions to Matti and adapt them accordingly, so we get a *roper* fix incl ned standard cert for SSU/Nokia repo, plus no implied need to install SWadm privkey to production server (which won't happen, and yes it's not needed but that's what Nokia did so far with keys for repos, so they assume it's same deal with SWadm key as well) |
| 23:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/*rop/*prop/ |
| 23:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ ned / new / |
| 23:14.43 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, here is link for PR.1.3.1 fiasco image: http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 23:15.07 | ShadowJK | Aarnio? |
| 23:16.55 | Woody14619 | sigh... OptFS, filesystem corrupt. Too many errors, trialocated block could not be resolved? This sounds not good. |
| 23:17.25 | ShadowJK | Sounds like the time I ran fsck on optfs |
| 23:17.44 | Woody14619 | Make a backup first. :) |
| 23:18.35 | Woody14619 | Went to make my montly backup and it errored about 50 files for "stale NFS handle". |
| 23:18.52 | Woody14619 | Which is why I went to fsck in the first place. |
| 23:19.15 | Woody14619 | I'm hoping restoring Feb's backup and overlaying the one I just did on top of it will fix it. |
| 23:19.48 | Woody14619 | Thank the gods for RobbieThe1st and backupmenu.... |
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| 23:32.49 | sixwheeledbeast | ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer05: glue didn't work either did reverse drill or making a slot in the head to use a flat screwdriver |
| 23:33.08 | sixwheeledbeast | s/either/neither/ |
| 23:33.42 | ShadowJK | :( |
| 23:34.00 | sixwheeledbeast | me thinks it was buggered to start with |
| 23:34.12 | ShadowJK | I'd lose patience and reverse-HSS drill it |
| 23:34.55 | sixwheeledbeast | took the head off with a dremmel and even pliers will not budge it |
| 23:35.23 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer05: turksat? |
| 23:35.32 | SpeedEvil | if it was larger, I would suggest welding |
| 23:35.58 | sixwheeledbeast | at least i can get in to look at the faulty ribbon now. |
| 23:47.05 | ShadowJK | hasn't tried welding so far :-) |
| 23:48.43 | sixwheeledbeast | welding! this isn't an old fiat! :-D |
| 23:50.53 | ShadowJK | (or alfa romeo, of any age) |
| 23:55.07 | xes | unthreaded screw? |
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| 23:56.25 | ShadowJK | The original issue was that hte screw didn't budge |
| 23:56.29 | ShadowJK | the head snapped off |
| 23:56.37 | ShadowJK | he tried to glue the head back on |
| 23:58.36 | xes | a bit of epossidic glue would fix without damage the parts |