| 00:00.03 | kerio | the only thing remotely close to speeding the n900 up is cssu-thumb |
| 00:00.18 | kerio | and that's based on cssu-testing and it's somewhat experimental |
| 00:00.33 | sombragris | I usually found the N900 very responsive. But it freezes sometimes |
| 00:01.04 | sombragris | yesterday I turned on the phone, and the camera still wasn't available 10 minutes later. It claimed the audio was still busy. |
| 00:01.11 | sombragris | maybe I should trim some apps. |
| 00:02.26 | sombragris | kerio: the tip on the USB port is great. Thanks. I was surprised to see how tiny the solder points for it were |
| 00:02.44 | *** part/#maemo sixwheeledbeast (~paul@cl-1547.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net) |
| 00:05.08 | sombragris | I think I'll take the phone to an electrical engineer or electronics technician here. They are the ones good with the soldering |
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| 00:14.55 | jacekowski | anyways, spread the word with new r.m.o ip address |
| 00:22.36 | tx0h | where can i get the flasher-3.5 for linux? is this the right one? http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/d3/flasher.dapper |
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| 00:35.35 | tx0h | sighs |
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| 00:40.25 | tx0h | found it: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz |
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| 00:48.01 | tx0h | hmm... whats that then? flasher_3.12.1_amd64.deb |
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| 01:43.43 | Estel_ | hey hey, any progress with investigating autobuilder? jacekowski? not pushing, just curious |
| 01:44.05 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, I'm also pretty sure that XA's battery is ~800 mAh ;) |
| 01:46.07 | Estel_ | btw, today i played with one damaged digitizer (N900's). Initially though, that it could be moisture damage, so kept it in silica gel bag overnight - but, honestly, no sights of water damage. After assembling, it worked perfectly... |
| 01:46.14 | Estel_ | for 10 mins ;) |
| 01:47.47 | Estel_ | then, started to act like one point is always in touch, a no ammount of "massaging" digitizer helped. Then, it started to work for a while, again... and stopped, as it seems, for good. I suspect that it was pressure damage after all. Just curioous, as there is 0 visible damage |
| 01:48.16 | Estel_ | I wonder if there is a way, after all, to bring it into life (visually, it's stunning, not even single scratch) |
| 01:49.20 | Estel_ | anyone have experiences with recovering digitizers from such behavior? |
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| 02:33.21 | SpeedEvil | it could be contamination on the boards |
| 02:34.32 | SpeedEvil | washing, and drying for extended periods at say 60 c can help |
| 02:34.48 | SpeedEvil | looks at his digital scale in the oven. |
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| 06:30.23 | Macer | hi! |
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| 07:08.58 | jacekowski | Estel_: autobuilder seems mostly working |
| 07:09.07 | jacekowski | Estel_: and hash sums are fixed |
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| 07:09.24 | freemangordon | jacekowski: that's great :) |
| 07:09.36 | jacekowski | Estel_: so if you want to try those use 213.128.137.22 as r.m.o |
| 07:10.08 | freemangordon | jacekowski: can autobuilder web interface be used? |
| 07:11.32 | jacekowski | i haven't tried that yet |
| 07:11.41 | jacekowski | only dput side of things |
| 07:11.50 | jacekowski | but that's disabled for now |
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| 07:19.52 | XATRIX | HI guys, yesterday i did full retrain cycle for my new battery. It's capacity is 1700mAh (and it's a brand new one) |
| 07:20.05 | XATRIX | Currently i checked the status of retrain |
| 07:20.14 | XATRIX | LMD 1241 mAh |
| 07:20.26 | XATRIX | Looks like it can't train more than ? |
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| 07:21.03 | XATRIX | Repor. Batt. Voltage: 4129mV |
| 07:21.12 | XATRIX | CSOC: 100% |
| 07:21.21 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: |
| 07:22.37 | Hurrian | XATRIX: sure it's really 1700mAh? |
| 07:22.47 | XATRIX | Yep |
| 07:23.07 | Hurrian | 4.129 mV is pretty close to 4.2V, the maximum for BL-5H type batteries. |
| 07:23.15 | XATRIX | http://traf.us/en/p/1531/#.UThAXhyjFBw |
| 07:23.21 | Hurrian | It may just be 1300 mAh. |
| 07:23.46 | Hurrian | You do know that Chinese companies love rebranding, right? |
| 07:23.55 | XATRIX | Something like |
| 07:24.23 | XATRIX | But i still have doubts about it's 1300 |
| 07:24.49 | XATRIX | I saw even 2300-2500 mAh for BL-5J |
| 07:24.53 | XATRIX | non-Nokia |
| 07:25.04 | XATRIX | maybe i have to retrain it again ? |
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| 07:28.07 | Hurrian | XATRIX: That's pretty impossible for a single battery. |
| 07:28.15 | XATRIX | Why not ? |
| 07:28.28 | kerio | *coff coff mugen* |
| 07:28.32 | Hurrian | Li-Ion battery chemistry, etc. |
| 07:28.42 | Hurrian | kerio: that doesn't qualify as a /single/ battery. |
| 07:28.59 | kerio | is it actually two batteries, even the original one? |
| 07:29.02 | XATRIX | http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/408348_518985402.html?src=ale&isdl=y&cn=csephase1&tp1=100001205&af=cse_szl |
| 07:29.12 | kerio | XATRIX: yeah... no |
| 07:29.14 | Hurrian | kerio: Two cells in one battery case. |
| 07:29.21 | Hurrian | XATRIX: If you wanted 2500 mAh, you're going to have to make that N900 a bit thicker. |
| 07:29.33 | kerio | *3100 |
| 07:29.41 | kerio | dual polarcell or dual scud |
| 07:29.57 | XATRIX | Still have doubts |
| 07:30.03 | XATRIX | it looks pretty thin |
| 07:30.12 | kerio | that battery is fake |
| 07:30.20 | XATRIX | http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/518985402.html -this one |
| 07:30.39 | kerio | it's fake |
| 07:30.58 | XATRIX | Ok, i can assume, that chinese EE guys, made a trick |
| 07:31.09 | XATRIX | They did a hi-capacity battery |
| 07:31.31 | XATRIX | But put a standard resistor onto, and it's reported as a usual one |
| 07:31.50 | kerio | other way around |
| 07:31.54 | XATRIX | But it will drain it's energy much more longer against the Nokia's BK-5J |
| 07:32.05 | kerio | that battery is likely to be 800mAh |
| 07:32.33 | kerio | if you want high capacity, there's the akku polarcell and the scud |
| 07:32.35 | kerio | both around 1500mAh |
| 07:32.45 | XATRIX | Why do you think so ? |
| 07:32.49 | kerio | the standard bl-5j right now is 1400 |
| 07:33.00 | XATRIX | I mean, why do you think it's 800 ? |
| 07:33.05 | kerio | because it's a battery sold in china |
| 07:33.10 | kerio | the default is to not believe *anything* |
| 07:33.18 | kerio | not even that it's a bl-5j and not a... sponge or something |
| 07:33.40 | kerio | XATRIX: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 |
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| 07:35.32 | XATRIX | It's even heavier than a standard one |
| 07:35.57 | kerio | by all means, buy it and report back |
| 07:35.57 | XATRIX | Why are you killing my hope ????!? |
| 07:36.09 | Hurrian | XATRIX: thetruth.png |
| 07:36.12 | XATRIX | ) |
| 07:39.08 | XATRIX | uses cpumem-applet |
| 07:41.26 | XATRIX | Maybe it will be better to start retrain battery one more time |
| 07:42.26 | XATRIX | My current Aavg = 51ma |
| 07:42.41 | XATRIX | While all the comms were disabled, it was 5mA |
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| 07:45.20 | XATRIX | Hmm.. the interresting fact is when i set my brightness to the lowest value my Average Current : 47mA |
| 07:45.35 | XATRIX | If i set it to max ~0-4mA |
| 07:46.05 | XATRIX | Is it consumes more power while the backlight is dimmed ? |
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| 08:01.49 | jacekowski | XATRIX: unlikely |
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| 08:02.06 | XATRIX | But it is |
| 08:02.19 | jacekowski | measurment error |
| 08:02.31 | XATRIX | Yes, my current backlight is lowerst one position |
| 08:02.36 | XATRIX | Current 32mA |
| 08:02.40 | XATRIX | In full - 0 |
| 08:09.07 | XATRIX | Discharging batt. Average Current: 307 mA |
| 08:09.15 | XATRIX | Reported Battery Voltage: 4070 mV |
| 08:09.22 | XATRIX | Last Measured Discharge: 1241 mAh |
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| 08:27.19 | tx0h | mo'nin' |
| 08:28.33 | tx0h | which version of flasher do i need? maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz or flasher_3.12.1_amd64.deb ? |
| 08:29.21 | tx0h | (for n900) |
| 08:30.10 | kerio | for the n900, 3.5 |
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| 08:30.45 | tx0h | 3.12 is for what? N9 only? |
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| 08:32.00 | kerio | i think so, yes |
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| 08:34.39 | tx0h | ty |
| 08:39.06 | tx0h | what is the difference between the maemo version? USA, UK, Global... ? |
| 08:39.37 | tx0h | i guess it is ok with the global one? |
| 08:40.47 | kerio | yeah, the global one is the recommended one |
| 08:40.50 | kerio | it works on every n900 |
| 08:41.02 | tx0h | nods |
| 08:41.16 | tx0h | but what is the difference? |
| 08:45.27 | kerio | i'm not entirely sure |
| 08:45.35 | tx0h | :-) |
| 08:45.38 | tx0h | me neither |
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| 08:45.43 | kerio | stuff like the fmtx might be missing from some of those specialized releases |
| 08:46.14 | tx0h | do you know what FIASCO stands for? |
| 08:46.37 | tx0h | fmtx? |
| 08:47.44 | kerio | fm transmitter |
| 08:47.55 | tx0h | aah, yeas. this might be |
| 08:48.43 | tx0h | i just ordered the usb cable but i try to sort things out, now that i've got a n900 with a working usb port :-) |
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| 09:36.40 | b0unc3 | good morning |
| 09:45.52 | tx0h | waves |
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| 10:30.02 | divVerent | The following packages will be REMOVED: kernel-power-flasher kernel-power-modules kernel-power-settings |
| 10:30.04 | divVerent | The following packages will be upgraded: kernel-power |
| 10:30.24 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi_joytop (~opera@88.208.95.82) |
| 10:30.38 | divVerent | ist this ok to do or not? i.e. did the other three get merged into kernel-power, or should I better wait for the other packages to get updated to match the current kernel-power? |
| 10:30.47 | kerio | wat |
| 10:31.10 | divVerent | I get this from apt-get install kernel-power |
| 10:31.16 | divVerent | as upgrade told me it's kept back |
| 10:31.24 | kerio | Pali: did you merge all the things |
| 10:33.33 | divVerent | ah, I see, kernel-power-modules did get updated, so using the new version would fix it; however, kernel-power-flasher does not work with current kernel-power |
| 10:33.53 | kerio | divVerent: i think that waiting would be better |
| 10:34.21 | divVerent | AH, I see |
| 10:34.31 | divVerent | the flasher is not in stable or testing yet, just in devel |
| 10:34.34 | divVerent | which I have pinned down to 1 |
| 10:34.39 | divVerent | so I never auotmatically get stuff from devel |
| 10:34.45 | divVerent | but I have testing active |
| 10:34.53 | divVerent | ok, deactivating testing then for now |
| 10:36.49 | divVerent | ok, the other three kept back packages are easy to fix by installing them explicitly... they are only kept back due to new dependencies |
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| 10:37.09 | divVerent | sdl-mixer e.g. seems to have learned about vorbis |
| 10:37.17 | kerio | that's from -devel, yes |
| 10:37.21 | divVerent | no, not -devel |
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| 10:37.27 | divVerent | this package is from extras stable |
| 10:37.34 | divVerent | probably recently got pushed to stable |
| 10:37.54 | divVerent | devel has a slightly newer version ;) |
| 10:38.21 | divVerent | ok, upgrade is happy, now time for deborphan |
| 10:38.44 | divVerent | is the community-ssu-enabler package still useful after having run the enabler? |
| 10:39.07 | kerio | yeah |
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| 10:39.53 | divVerent | what would happen if I were to remove it? |
| 10:40.26 | kerio | your n900 will explode |
| 10:40.34 | kerio | or maybe some confusion with HAM and the metapackage |
| 10:40.58 | divVerent | all I see it still "does" is an apt-worker diversion |
| 10:41.06 | kerio | community-ssu-enabler has the keys and the catalogue information for the CSSU repos in HAM |
| 10:41.12 | kerio | ah yes, you're on stable |
| 10:41.20 | kerio | that diversion is necessary to make updates via HAM work |
| 10:41.23 | divVerent | AH, right |
| 10:41.30 | divVerent | the prerm script would also take the repo out of hildon |
| 10:41.32 | divVerent | ok, then I need it |
| 10:41.51 | divVerent | deborphan -A'd |
| 10:42.12 | divVerent | speaking of which, I maybe should try packaging debfoster or deborphan for Maemo... |
| 10:42.18 | vi__ | so is palis bme replacement cool to use yet? |
| 10:42.21 | divVerent | I currently am using the version from debian.org, with the binary extracted out of the .deb |
| 10:42.25 | vi__ | or will it make my n900 asplode? |
| 10:42.56 | divVerent | the deborphan .deb from Debian doesn't install due to library deps, BUT the binary runs anyway. As in, the libraries are more compatible than Debian thinks they are ;) |
| 10:43.18 | kerio | vi__: i've been using it for... idk, a month and a half? |
| 10:43.23 | kerio | my n900 explodes all the time |
| 10:43.41 | kerio | but, to be honest, there are still some quirks |
| 10:43.52 | vi__ | such as? |
| 10:44.03 | kerio | there's pretty much no green led at any time |
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| 10:44.10 | vi__ | meh |
| 10:44.12 | divVerent | mine didn't explode at all yet... probably the lithium ion battery has not enough power for a nice fun explosion any more |
| 10:44.34 | kerio | and, in the latest version, it's impossible to calibrate bq27k because the phone shuts down at EDV1 |
| 10:44.42 | vi__ | lolwut |
| 10:44.58 | vi__ | that is a pretty big 'quirk'. |
| 10:45.43 | divVerent | http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-VHBW-BACKUP-AKKU-10400mAh-WEIs-fur-Nokia-N9-N9-00-/200895374450?pt=DE_Handy_PDA_Akkus&hash=item2ec64c2472 - probably need one of these :P I bet this battery CAN explode when "used right"; i.e. wrong |
| 10:45.51 | vi__ | what other cool shit has happened in the past 3 months? |
| 10:46.00 | Hurrian | vi__, meh, you can continue calibrating when the phone comes back up. |
| 10:46.43 | vi__ | aah, so while it shuts down on edv1, it does record the last measured discharg? |
| 10:46.52 | vi__ | If so, that is just fine. |
| 10:46.55 | Hurrian | yep, it's stored in the battery, after all. |
| 10:47.04 | vi__ | ... |
| 10:47.37 | vi__ | So has any cool new shit surfaced recently? |
| 10:47.45 | Hurrian | wait, is EDV and VDQ stored on the battery's fuel gauge or on the N900's fuel gauge? |
| 10:47.55 | vi__ | ... |
| 10:48.05 | vi__ | The battery does not have a fuel gauge. |
| 10:48.35 | vi__ | The BQ chip is supposed to be in the battery (like a laptop pack) but in the n900 case, it is not. |
| 10:48.42 | Hurrian | ah, that was it. |
| 10:49.42 | Hurrian | vi__: there aren't really loads of groundbreaking new stuff for Fremantle, just the usual updates and bug fixes. |
| 10:50.32 | kerio | Hurrian: wait, no you don't |
| 10:50.41 | kerio | bq27k needs like 15 seconds at edv1 |
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| 10:59.45 | Hurrian | kerio: ah crap, that means that I've been doing calibration wrong all this time. |
| 11:01.42 | jaska | 10400mAh? what?:D |
| 11:02.09 | Hurrian | jaska: looks like a power tank. |
| 11:02.14 | jaska | ah, external |
| 11:02.34 | jaska | thought someone had went nuts and made a bigger back cover than mugen and crammed 10.4 Ah in there :D |
| 11:03.17 | Hurrian | jaska: That'd make the N900 twice as thick as it already is. |
| 11:03.26 | jaska | well, you could extend it at one end |
| 11:03.44 | Hurrian | Maybe one can be made from a few 18650 batteries. |
| 11:03.57 | jaska | from the side that has the usb connector.. just have a passthru |
| 11:04.16 | jaska | actually, thatd be awkward |
| 11:04.44 | jaska | perhaps the slider/phonojack end then.. and provide passthru for the connector and some mechanical thingy for slider |
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| 11:05.41 | Hurrian | that'd be more awkward, it'd be trouble to have the slider thingy properly fit over the original slider lock |
| 11:06.02 | Hurrian | muUSB passthru with a switch to toggle charging would be better. |
| 11:06.24 | jaska | yeah but then it would extend past your ear |
| 11:06.31 | jaska | opposite of older phones |
| 11:06.34 | Hurrian | wait, it'll probably also need a circuit to prevent charging when connected via USB. |
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| 11:29.13 | kerio | Hurrian: just use doc's script |
| 11:29.14 | kerio | or mine |
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| 11:36.13 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, where to create new ticket? |
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| 11:57.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: you've been in CC, please notice that this mail was to support at nemein.com |
| 11:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I kept you in CC to let you know |
| 11:57.47 | Pali | ah, now I see :-) |
| 11:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't mean you need to do anything |
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| 12:35.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | important question to our experts here!!! |
| 12:36.22 | andre__ | hides when he sees three question marks |
| 12:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | if scratchbox.org NS was a CNAME, would that work for installation scripts and whatever else needs scratchbox.org URL? |
| 12:37.10 | divVerent | you mean NS record pointing to a CNAME? That works, is discouraged though. |
| 12:37.25 | divVerent | Or do you mean the name record for scratchbox.org itself? "Usually this works", but I suppose nobody has tried it yet |
| 12:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be our best option |
| 12:37.30 | divVerent | the glibc resolver doesn't care |
| 12:37.52 | divVerent | I mean, are you planning to have scratchbox.org IN CNAME someotherhost |
| 12:38.08 | divVerent | or do you mean scratchbox.org IN NS ns01.scratchbox.org, and ns01.scratchbox.org IN CNAME whatever |
| 12:38.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean scratchbox.org -CNAME-> scratchbox.maemo.org -> our new IP |
| 12:38.24 | divVerent | oh, so you don't mean the NS record |
| 12:38.36 | divVerent | assuming only the glibc resolver is involved, this will work |
| 12:38.48 | divVerent | most resolvers support CNAME |
| 12:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no expert here |
| 12:38.51 | divVerent | and userspace programs don't care |
| 12:39.20 | divVerent | basically, you MAY discover some brokenness, but that then needs fixing anyway ;) |
| 12:39.21 | kerio | divVerent: a resolver that doesn't support CNAME isn't standard anyway |
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| 12:39.27 | divVerent | kerio: that's my point |
| 12:39.31 | kerio | and wouldn't work for... google.com |
| 12:39.35 | divVerent | yes :P |
| 12:39.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | so i gather we're fine when whoever owns scratchbox.org now will change that to a CNAME pointing to a maemo.org subdomain? |
| 12:39.42 | divVerent | yes |
| 12:39.44 | kerio | ...no, wait |
| 12:39.45 | kerio | hold on |
| 12:39.49 | divVerent | the one catch is that they need to be ABLE to turn it into a CNAME |
| 12:39.53 | divVerent | not every hoster allows this :( |
| 12:39.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm afraid that the answer is no, actually |
| 12:39.59 | divVerent | some cheap domain hosters only allow A records |
| 12:40.11 | kerio | the DNS standard states that a record is either **only** a CNAME or other things |
| 12:40.21 | divVerent | kerio: right, so? |
| 12:40.26 | kerio | it's not entirely specified if the SOA record for scratchbox.org counts |
| 12:40.35 | divVerent | that's a nice catch ;) |
| 12:40.38 | kerio | but even then, mixing CNAME and, say, MX will probably cause problems |
| 12:40.45 | kerio | so you wouldn't have scratchbox.org emails |
| 12:40.59 | divVerent | also... do you really use scratchbox.org, or subdomain.scratchbox.org? |
| 12:41.03 | divVerent | a simple CNAME won't fix the subdomains |
| 12:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox.org. 600 IN SOA ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 600 |
| 12:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox.org. 600 IN MX 10 smtp01.wmfi.net. |
| 12:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox.org. 600 IN A 80.248.164.245 |
| 12:41.30 | kerio | they use email, so nope |
| 12:41.34 | divVerent | email uses the MX, yes |
| 12:41.38 | kerio | a cname isn't guaranteed to work |
| 12:41.41 | divVerent | and we know of some broken email resolvers ;) |
| 12:41.50 | divVerent | I mean, some mail servers do their own resolving, and don't support CNAME |
| 12:42.01 | divVerent | wasn't qmail one of these? ;) |
| 12:42.29 | divVerent | also, do you use any subdomains of scratchbox.org? |
| 12:42.32 | divVerent | like, "www.scratchbox.org" |
| 12:42.37 | divVerent | CNAME won't fix these |
| 12:42.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, for what matters to me, CNAME is no viable alternative to transfer of domain to maemo.org |
| 12:42.55 | kerio | nope |
| 12:43.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: ^^^ |
| 12:43.08 | divVerent | I would indeed recommend the transfer |
| 12:43.08 | kerio | whose domain is scratchbox.org anyway? |
| 12:43.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the question |
| 12:43.50 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: noted; we hope they do the transfer in that case |
| 12:43.52 | divVerent | Registrant Name:Movial |
| 12:43.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: changing the domain's NS records would work |
| 12:43.54 | divVerent | Registrant Organization:Movial |
| 12:43.56 | divVerent | Registrant Street1:Porkkalankatu 20 A |
| 12:43.58 | divVerent | so you get street address |
| 12:44.01 | divVerent | but this doesn't look like a name |
| 12:44.05 | divVerent | anyone want to visit him? ;) |
| 12:44.13 | divVerent | in Helsinki, Finland |
| 12:44.27 | divVerent | changing the domain's NS records is indeed the proper way |
| 12:44.36 | kerio | well, the proper way is to change ownership of the domain |
| 12:44.37 | kerio | and then do whatever |
| 12:44.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 12:45.10 | florian | divVerent: Movial is a company |
| 12:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're hosting sb on maemo.org, so we need control over the DNS |
| 12:45.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | sooner or later |
| 12:46.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hand over this discussion to thedead1440, maintainer of maemo sb VM |
| 12:46.54 | thedead1440 | basically even if they change their ns records to sb.maemo.org it would be fine right? |
| 12:47.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | right, for now |
| 12:47.25 | divVerent | yes, but in the long run, it'd be good to have ownership of the domain anyway |
| 12:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | but not for any future service we might need to do due to e.g. change of IPs on our infra |
| 12:47.55 | divVerent | i.e. "formal ownership", e.g. right to transfer etc. (and obligation to pay ;)) |
| 12:48.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, changing their ns records would mean that we control the DNS for that domain |
| 12:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that too |
| 12:48.08 | thedead1440 | divVerent: it would be good to have ownership but we must also work on the basis if Movial is not interested in transferring the domain over |
| 12:48.20 | divVerent | thedead1440: right |
| 12:48.29 | divVerent | if they are not interestd, BUT will do the NS record thing, then that works |
| 12:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I know, but they won't do that |
| 12:48.47 | thedead1440 | I need to present an alternative to them other than domain transfer so as to not scare them away |
| 12:48.47 | kerio | why the fuck not |
| 12:48.58 | divVerent | thing is, if they keep owning the domain, but point the NS records elsewhere... it'd be kinda pointless to them |
| 12:49.00 | kerio | what use could they POSSIBLY have for scratchbox.org |
| 12:49.52 | divVerent | they may be interested, but the interest may be a function of the price one would be willing to pay ;) |
| 12:50.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox.org. 600 IN SOA ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 600 |
| 12:50.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox.org. 600 IN NS ns1.creanor.com. |
| 12:51.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | either they transfer domain to maemo.org, we pay and control it. Or (poor alternative) they keep their domain ownership and control and just point the A record to our VM |
| 12:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui that are the two alternatives available |
| 12:53.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | if tehre's a sound 3rd one, let me know |
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| 13:08.39 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: I checked the RFCs. There is none. |
| 13:09.18 | divVerent | pointing the NS records to something below maemo.org IS a possibility, but a very unlikely one for them to accept (I'd suggest it anyway, but not expect this variant to be chosen) |
| 13:10.15 | divVerent | as it'd end up with them paying for the domain, without being able to do anything with it (other than being able to take away the NS record at any time) |
| 13:10.44 | divVerent | one SLIGHTLY different way would also be them changing their DNS zone to be a slave zone, with the master on maemo.org |
| 13:10.57 | divVerent | so if you update the zone, it automatically transfers to their DNS servers |
| 13:11.10 | divVerent | but that's EVEN less likely, as they'd then ALSO pay for the DNS hosting infrastructure without having any control ;) |
| 13:17.15 | Estel_ | jaska, I've, actually, put a little thicker cover for 7800 mAh battery (2x lions) |
| 13:17.43 | Estel_ | still little too big to do it without body replacement, not due to thicknes,s but due to how 18650's are long |
| 13:17.49 | Estel_ | - yoda like grammar |
| 13:18.32 | Estel_ | anyway, what I mean is that it's still possible, and N900 live what seems like eternity on single charging |
| 13:18.45 | Estel_ | althoug charging take ages |
| 13:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: yes, thanks for the explanations. We are following hidden-primary concept for maemo.org domain with Nokia, until final handover to HiFo. i don't see this flying for this case though. I wouldn't even suggest it to Jussi |
| 13:19.44 | divVerent | yes, it would give them a BIT more control, as they then could still create (to some extent) subzones in their DNS to override stuff (RFCs don't really like this, though, but people do it...) |
| 13:19.57 | divVerent | but yes, it means even more overhead to them :P |
| 13:19.57 | Estel_ | ~8h to full, or 6h to almsot full (so-called fast charge, if you skip saturation) |
| 13:20.47 | divVerent | a Maemo question again... how would I try to calibrate the battery? |
| 13:20.49 | Estel_ | XATRIX, your battery IS 800 mAh, period. Resistor inside shows 1300 mAh, which is bshit, all the time in any battery |
| 13:20.59 | divVerent | I noticed that when unplugging the charger in charged state, it immediately drops to about 90% |
| 13:21.05 | Estel_ | div, either use DocScrutinizer05's automagic script |
| 13:21.06 | divVerent | and also, it just ran for over 30 minutes at 0.0% |
| 13:21.33 | Estel_ | or find a guy named "Estel" in TMO, and check his signature - detailed instruction for manual calibration there, including all "why and how it works" |
| 13:21.35 | divVerent | it's the original battery, but it's the one that came with the device when it was bought, so it's a bit worn out |
| 13:22.11 | Estel_ | divVerent, don't look at this 0, if you're reading from bq chip, it just mean it's not calibrated properly (yet) |
| 13:23.00 | jaska | 7800mAh, that oughta last a while |
| 13:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: 30min or more at 0% is normal |
| 13:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: also drop to 95%(?) in pretty short time after unplug is normal, not to 90% though |
| 13:24.30 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, but not with readings from bq |
| 13:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:24.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 13:25.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq jumps from 95% to 100% on charging |
| 13:25.03 | Estel_ | with bme everythning is possible (tm), as it uses sado-macho alghorithm with voltage |
| 13:25.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | on dischraging it shouldn't do this |
| 13:25.16 | Estel_ | yea |
| 13:25.45 | divVerent | Estel_: haha, it uses voltage... |
| 13:25.53 | divVerent | that explains why sometimes the charge went up during use ;) |
| 13:25.58 | divVerent | i.e. some down-spikes that recover a bit later |
| 13:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway since I have nfc what divVerent is using to get those readings, I don't really care to explain all the differnet scenarios |
| 13:26.12 | Estel_ | just unloaded bq2415x_battery and bq27x00_battery using Pali's replacement, and waits to see, if it will calibrate as advertised |
| 13:27.09 | Estel_ | jaska, funny thing, is that thicknes isn't as bad with 18650 |
| 13:27.45 | divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: oh, different programs show different percentage at same state? |
| 13:27.50 | Estel_ | (imagine ~2 cm distance from N900's motherboard, it shield, to be precise) |
| 13:28.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 13:28.04 | divVerent | reading is from "Advanced Power" |
| 13:28.14 | Estel_ | divVerent, it depends if it uses bq27x00 or bme or voltage without averaging or... |
| 13:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise why would we have different 2programs" ? ;-) |
| 13:28.16 | divVerent | and I haven't touched anything bme-related yet on the system |
| 13:28.31 | Estel_ | divVerent, advanced power got at least 3 methods build in, user configurable |
| 13:28.41 | Estel_ | no idea which one you're using |
| 13:28.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 13:28.50 | divVerent | it's set to "Nokia's BME" |
| 13:28.57 | Estel_ | so you know what you get |
| 13:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's guesswork |
| 13:29.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and calibration won't change it |
| 13:29.12 | Estel_ | btw why wasting RAM for advanced power monitor, is using bme readings anyway? |
| 13:29.14 | divVerent | the third method is "Dummy", so that one probably doesn't work |
| 13:29.20 | Estel_ | yea ;) |
| 13:29.29 | divVerent | Estel_: only reason why I use it is so I can get a percentage in the status dropdown |
| 13:29.37 | Estel_ | but it's guesswork anyway |
| 13:29.38 | divVerent | if there's a better way to achieve that, I'd kill it |
| 13:29.47 | Estel_ | you could made your own percentage from bars :P |
| 13:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq27k |
| 13:30.01 | Estel_ | APM is good program, but frankly, i don't use it for ages |
| 13:30.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang |
| 13:30.03 | divVerent | I also run battery-eye to get "nice graphs" |
| 13:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys bq |
| 13:30.10 | Pali | Estel_, is 30s enoght after EDV1? |
| 13:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq |
| 13:30.24 | Estel_ | battery-eye is a mess, it uses bme, so this graph is made-up guessworking |
| 13:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys bq2 |
| 13:30.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq27200 |
| 13:30.37 | infobot | bq27k-detail is, like, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 |
| 13:30.52 | Estel_ | divVerent, if you want most conveinent and accurate readings as it goes now... |
| 13:31.06 | Estel_ | either go super-devel and install kp52 and Pali's bme replacement bits... |
| 13:31.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | use bfn |
| 13:31.15 | Estel_ | and kerio's fork of Pali's battery applet |
| 13:31.23 | Estel_ | ...or use bnf (shameless advert) |
| 13:31.30 | Estel_ | oh thanks DocScrutinizer05 :P |
| 13:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | which isn't mature yet (bme-replacement) |
| 13:32.04 | Pali | WTF? kerio's battery applet fork? |
| 13:32.14 | Estel_ | just keep in mind that newest bnf is provided as tar drop-in file replacement for older version, due to repos everyone-know-what |
| 13:32.20 | kerio | i deny the existance of such things |
| 13:32.24 | Estel_ | :P |
| 13:32.53 | Estel_ | Pali, kerio's fork ignore that resistor build-in thing, and read from bq27x00 all the time |
| 13:32.56 | Estel_ | sorry :P |
| 13:33.12 | kerio | it's like a two-line change |
| 13:33.23 | Estel_ | it's just more practical to use, 'till you incorporate the things we've discussed and agreed on |
| 13:33.34 | kerio | fwiw, i don't use it |
| 13:33.39 | Estel_ | well, it's still fork of some kind :P |
| 13:34.00 | Estel_ | for 3 people using latest bme replacement, at least one person uses fork :P |
| 13:34.11 | divVerent | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/i2c-tools/i2c-tools_3.0.2-1maemo3_armel.deb Hash Sum mismatch |
| 13:34.15 | divVerent | is this something I did wrong? :P |
| 13:34.18 | Pali | btw, did you wrote wiki page for discussion and possible solutions for percentage, design capacity, etc...? |
| 13:34.28 | kerio | divVerent: yep, it's all your fault |
| 13:34.31 | kerio | you broke the internet |
| 13:34.34 | divVerent | hehe |
| 13:34.35 | Estel_ | kerio promised to do that *rises finger* |
| 13:34.37 | Pali | I'm still waiting :-) |
| 13:34.44 | kerio | i deny the existance of such promises |
| 13:35.06 | Estel_ | Pali, it seems that I can do it, IF wiki stopped to work at 7 b/s |
| 13:35.13 | Estel_ | last time i tried it was like that |
| 13:35.45 | Estel_ | just remind me of other "solutions" |
| 13:35.59 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-92-176.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 13:35.59 | Estel_ | as it seems that I remember only the ones that actually works? |
| 13:36.06 | Estel_ | s/ones/one/ |
| 13:36.50 | Estel_ | btw it funny, 6 months ago we didn't believed in possibility of bme replacement, now we have "multiple solutions" and even small fork |
| 13:37.08 | Estel_ | divVerent, btw, pali's battery aplet and kerio's fork shows percentage too |
| 13:37.13 | Estel_ | even without drop-downing |
| 13:37.18 | Estel_ | teases |
| 13:38.09 | kerio | enough with the "fork" thing |
| 13:38.16 | Estel_ | the only one problem for now is that it shut down device at edv1 so disallow calibration, untill you unload modules before - but Pali promised to fix it soon, even without wiki page with multiple solutions... ;) |
| 13:38.21 | kerio | maybe you don't realize it, but the hardest part in what i did was installing scratchbox |
| 13:38.28 | Estel_ | kerio, sure |
| 13:38.32 | Estel_ | it's always the hardest part |
| 13:38.45 | Estel_ | I couldn't bug myself to do it up to this date |
| 13:38.50 | freemangordon | kerio: ooh, you have SB installed |
| 13:39.00 | kerio | no, i eventually downloaded the ubuntu vm image |
| 13:39.02 | Estel_ | don't even ask how i packaged bnf and ereswap |
| 13:39.08 | Estel_ | you really don't wanna know |
| 13:39.15 | kerio | how did you package bnf and ereswap? |
| 13:39.15 | Pali | Estel_, now I'm adding code which wait 30 seconds before sending empty signal to DSME |
| 13:39.17 | Pali | it is ok? |
| 13:39.19 | freemangordon | kerio: so nothing stops you now to start coding for CSSU :P |
| 13:39.24 | Estel_ | (but it's properly packaged, anyway) |
| 13:39.28 | Estel_ | Pali, np! |
| 13:39.30 | Estel_ | no! |
| 13:39.36 | Estel_ | there is still a problem |
| 13:39.40 | Pali | hm? |
| 13:39.46 | kerio | freemangordon: hey let's not get too ahead of ourselves now |
| 13:39.49 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:39.52 | Estel_ | it need 15 seconds on edv1 *without* going above edv |
| 13:39.57 | Estel_ | as it resets timer |
| 13:40.00 | Estel_ | and happens all the time |
| 13:40.08 | kerio | Estel_: would (EDV1+EDVF)/2 work? |
| 13:40.23 | Estel_ | it calibrate *only* if it is 15 seconds straight below edv1 |
| 13:40.30 | Estel_ | without going above at all |
| 13:40.43 | divVerent | Estel_: I kinda don't get yet how your script works :P |
| 13:40.51 | divVerent | all it does is display stuff, possibly in a loop |
| 13:40.55 | Estel_ | Pali, haven't your promised to add gconf that would make it suerr configurrable and require reboot after change? ;) |
| 13:41.04 | divVerent | so we first charge fully, check that the battery agrees it's fully charged |
| 13:41.04 | Estel_ | divVerent, no loop |
| 13:41.07 | divVerent | and then merely discharge |
| 13:41.10 | Estel_ | ah |
| 13:41.14 | Estel_ | divVerent, it's not mine |
| 13:41.14 | Pali | now I do not know what is needed |
| 13:41.17 | Estel_ | it's DocScrutinizer05's |
| 13:41.26 | divVerent | oh right, shadowj wrote it |
| 13:41.31 | divVerent | shadowjk* |
| 13:41.31 | Pali | better, write all info to (wiki) page |
| 13:41.39 | Pali | and then I change code in dsme |
| 13:41.41 | Estel_ | Pali, ok, lets explain it slowly and in one line, so gimme a 30 seconds: |
| 13:41.45 | Pali | and hald addon bme |
| 13:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: no, I wrote it |
| 13:41.57 | divVerent | anyway... to me this script looks like it does "nothing at all", so basically letting the battery fully charge, then fully discharge until auto power down does the very same |
| 13:42.07 | divVerent | I am referring to this one |
| 13:42.08 | kerio | not quite |
| 13:42.09 | divVerent | bq27200.sh script by shadowjk - place it wherever You want (i suggest /usr/bin, this way You may execute it by typing just "bq27200.sh", without quotes - no need for full path), and chmod +x it. |
| 13:42.11 | divVerent | or is that you |
| 13:42.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 13:43.00 | divVerent | all actions this script ever does is i2cget, there is a killall to bme_RX-51 that is commented out |
| 13:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | this script doen't calibrate though |
| 13:43.13 | divVerent | it looks more like it just shows info about the battery's own calibration |
| 13:43.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | it just displays values of bq27200 |
| 13:43.15 | Estel_ | Pali, what we need is user configurable treeshold, period. Some users may encounter GSM modem problems even slightly above edv1, and they could just make treeshold higher. Others, like me, don't have problems even @ 2.900 mV, so would set it lower, to gain most from battery |
| 13:43.53 | divVerent | I actually don't believe its output at all ;) |
| 13:44.11 | Estel_ | otherwise, if you want to do soemthing around edv1, you must, sadly, mimic bq27x00 calibration logic, which is "calibrate, if voltage is at or below edv1 for 15 seconds straigh. If it goes above edv1, reset timer" |
| 13:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | then why do you pester us? |
| 13:44.22 | divVerent | Last Measured Discharge: 1713 mAh |
| 13:44.26 | divVerent | it's above the design capacity |
| 13:44.32 | divVerent | I want to learn how to calibrate the battery right :P |
| 13:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq-calibrate |
| 13:44.46 | infobot | it has been said that bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh |
| 13:45.17 | Estel_ | divVerent, this output is bogus, due to fact, that bq chip at reset is 2056, and with every calibration it goes down by no more than some value |
| 13:45.34 | divVerent | AH... yes, this script looks like a plan :P |
| 13:45.40 | Estel_ | so you, accidentaly, calibrated it once, so it went to 1700 mAh, but is still far from truth |
| 13:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: Estel_: or just check for bq27200 finishing calibration cycle before shutting down device |
| 13:46.18 | *** join/#maemo user (~user@202.93.37.83) |
| 13:46.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to figure out if bq27200 would've finished a calibration cycle if there was a VDQ? |
| 13:46.28 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, good idea top but user configurable is always better. BTW, how to check finished calibration, reliably? |
| 13:46.50 | Estel_ | it would require complicated logic involving vdq, edv1 etc |
| 13:46.53 | kerio | edv1 flag |
| 13:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bq-calibrate |
| 13:46.55 | infobot | somebody said bq-calibrate was http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh |
| 13:47.02 | Estel_ | as vdq can go from 1 to 0 without calibrating, too |
| 13:47.05 | kerio | instead of voltage below edv1 register |
| 13:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm, whenever it does, it's safe to shutdown |
| 13:47.26 | kerio | ...we could use the edv1 flag, that's only set after the possible calibration has already happened |
| 13:47.30 | divVerent | and this bq-calibrate script only needs to be run once? |
| 13:47.32 | Estel_ | erm, butg edv1 flag need to be for 15 seconds straigh, or we go back to point 1 |
| 13:47.37 | Pali | -ETOOBIGIRCLOG |
| 13:47.38 | divVerent | (normally, that is) |
| 13:47.54 | kerio | Estel_: afaik the *flag* is only set whenever the conditions for a calibration are met |
| 13:48.06 | Pali | better write all to one place (e.g. wiki page), parsing irc log is hard now :-) |
| 13:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: once every 32 cycles |
| 13:48.08 | kerio | divVerent: eeh, for a first calibration you probably need two or three cycles |
| 13:48.08 | Estel_ | Pali, ok, I get your reasoning for wiki page. Why can't it be just TMO post in bme replacement thread? :P |
| 13:48.16 | divVerent | ok |
| 13:48.24 | kerio | and yeah, you need a calibration once in a while |
| 13:48.47 | divVerent | so what this script does, is basically inhibit the auto power down which the bme daemon might do too early, thwarting the auto calibration? |
| 13:48.48 | Pali | wiki is editable by more people, tmo post only by author |
| 13:48.51 | Estel_ | and if wikip which page? does it exist already? |
| 13:48.58 | Estel_ | Pali, ok |
| 13:49.06 | divVerent | and this i2c stuff disables "emergency charging" whatever that is... |
| 13:49.11 | kerio | divVerent: not only that, it also restarts the charging |
| 13:49.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: and, as kerio said, first time you want to run it multiple times until LMD doesn't change anymore |
| 13:49.19 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:49.28 | kerio | divVerent: it's meant to be run overnight |
| 13:49.33 | Estel_ | create new page for discussions about bme, or use ecisting one, Pali? |
| 13:49.43 | Estel_ | s/ecisting/existing/ |
| 13:49.54 | Estel_ | and if the latter, which one it is |
| 13:49.56 | Pali | create new for discussion about bme replacement |
| 13:49.59 | Estel_ | OK |
| 13:50.17 | divVerent | now out of interest... apparently these i2c commands inhibit charging |
| 13:50.24 | divVerent | i.e. you run this calibration script while connected to the charger |
| 13:50.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:50.30 | Estel_ | will split one in a few minutes, just don't expect beautiful formatting, doing it from device |
| 13:50.36 | divVerent | or does stopping bme do the inhibit-charging stuff? |
| 13:50.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | both |
| 13:51.00 | *** join/#maemo dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 13:51.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can you confirm that the edv1 *flag* behaves as we'd expect? |
| 13:51.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | stopping bme does inhibit normal charhing, but not emergency charging |
| 13:51.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | what do you *expect*? ;-) |
| 13:51.48 | divVerent | hehe... funny, emergency charging is a fun concept :P |
| 13:51.50 | kerio | that it signals a finished calibration |
| 13:52.14 | divVerent | and "fastcharger" as mentioned by the script is basically the nokia power supply? |
| 13:53.23 | kerio | divVerent: yes |
| 13:54.22 | divVerent | speaking of charging... is it possible to charge the n900 with anything but the original charger or a powered on PC? |
| 13:54.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, seems my calibration script does exactly that |
| 13:54.32 | divVerent | all my USB power supplies I have didn't work |
| 13:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ^^^ |
| 13:54.46 | kerio | and does it work? |
| 13:54.47 | kerio | :D |
| 13:55.15 | divVerent | also, the iPhone power supply didn't work, and the iPhone itself is similarily picky ;) |
| 13:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you tell us, I wrote that script for you iirc |
| 13:56.41 | kerio | i've seen it work |
| 13:56.46 | *** join/#maemo elrazad (~elrazad@118.97.95.70) |
| 13:56.59 | kerio | Estel_: please make sure that you mention the fact that the EDV1 *flag* would work correctly for calibration |
| 13:57.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is the flag set even if we're not doing a VDQ? |
| 13:57.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly, why doesn't bme-repl wait for edvf before shutdown? |
| 13:57.37 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: some folks report problems with the gsm modem browning out |
| 13:57.47 | kerio | and only working properly after a reboot |
| 13:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (flag set) yes |
| 13:58.23 | divVerent | ah, I see... Apple uses a different way to detect "dumb" chargers |
| 13:58.29 | divVerent | than the micro usb charging spec |
| 13:58.39 | divVerent | what was the POINT of that EU regulation again, when Apple can freely ignore it? |
| 13:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: indeed |
| 13:58.55 | kerio | divVerent: apple also has tv out adapters that are more powerful than the n900 |
| 13:58.59 | *** join/#maemo elrazad (~elrazad@118.97.95.70) |
| 13:59.10 | divVerent | I mean, wasn't the only reason why Apple can keep its charger that it has an USB port, and the EU guys think it CAN thus charge the micro USB devices via a micro USB cable? |
| 13:59.13 | divVerent | which obviously isn't true |
| 13:59.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | USB cert specs added apple's way as a valid alternative |
| 13:59.25 | divVerent | AH, i see |
| 13:59.37 | divVerent | so they basically allowed two kinds of charger detection |
| 13:59.44 | divVerent | and a single charger can't possibly support both |
| 13:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:59.56 | Estel_ | heeeey, bme-replacement just shut down my defvice at edv1 *DESPITE* having bq2415x and bq27x00 UNLOADED for ages! Pali, wtf? |
| 14:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart usb-cert |
| 14:00.03 | infobot | resizes usb-cert's terminal to 40x24 |
| 14:00.16 | kerio | hm, which is apple's way? |
| 14:00.17 | divVerent | but does that at least mean the N900 will charge with virtually any Android-device charger? |
| 14:00.19 | Estel_ | haven't you said that it should let it go 'till end of power? |
| 14:00.38 | divVerent | kerio: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html |
| 14:00.39 | Pali | Estel_, rx51 battery can report battery voltage too |
| 14:00.40 | divVerent | found this |
| 14:00.45 | divVerent | basically, two fixed voltages on the data ports |
| 14:01.13 | Pali | or your HW turned device off |
| 14:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: some resistor dividers on D+ and D- that apply voltage of 1/3 and 2/3 of VBUS, iirc |
| 14:01.46 | kerio | hm, that way means that you can specify how much the device should draw |
| 14:01.54 | kerio | feels kinda leaning towards apple's way... :s |
| 14:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 14:02.30 | Estel_ | Pali, oh shit, so i should unload three modulesp including rx51 too? |
| 14:02.35 | Estel_ | or more? |
| 14:02.43 | Estel_ | no, it wasn't hardware shutdown for sure |
| 14:02.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | then there's even a third method: resistor from ID to GND |
| 14:02.45 | Pali | nothing more is used |
| 14:02.49 | kerio | Estel_: `stop bme` |
| 14:02.53 | kerio | duh |
| 14:03.00 | Estel_ | kerio, doesn't work with bme replacement |
| 14:03.04 | kerio | sure it does |
| 14:03.07 | Pali | no |
| 14:03.08 | kerio | haven't you read /etc/event.d/bme? |
| 14:03.36 | Estel_ | BloodRose:~# stop bme |
| 14:03.37 | Pali | bme is only loading drivers at startup and ignore blacklist |
| 14:03.42 | Estel_ | Job not changed: BME |
| 14:03.52 | Estel_ | kerio, are you even using replacement? .P |
| 14:03.55 | Pali | bme is now only upstart task |
| 14:04.04 | Estel_ | or still using bme and just thinking that you use replacement? :P |
| 14:04.08 | kerio | ._. |
| 14:04.13 | Pali | upstart task = simple script |
| 14:04.14 | kerio | i thought it had a way to also unload the modules |
| 14:04.32 | Pali | kerio, it is not possible |
| 14:04.34 | Estel_ | other symptoms, like loading and unloading bq27x00 resulting in reboot in your case, would suggest you still have old bme |
| 14:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | if replacement doesn't come with proper jobfile in /etc/events.d/* then it's crap |
| 14:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:04.45 | Pali | because task finish when script finish |
| 14:04.58 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, it comes with proper file |
| 14:05.10 | Pali | upstart is crap in this way |
| 14:05.34 | Estel_ | Pali, so one need to unload THREE modules - bq2415x, bq27x00, and rx51, to temporaly stop bme replacement from shutting device down? or more? |
| 14:05.51 | Pali | btw, and proper way is to unblacklist modules & remove upstart file |
| 14:06.01 | Estel_ | it just deleted my work on wiki page, so I'm going to start from scratch :P |
| 14:06.03 | Pali | Estel_, yes |
| 14:06.09 | kerio | i thought there was no automatic module loading on the n900 |
| 14:06.11 | Estel_ | Pali, thanks |
| 14:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ack |
| 14:06.27 | Pali | kerio, there is automatic module loading by udev |
| 14:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ack, for first half (unblacklist), not though for "remove upstart file" |
| 14:07.13 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, bme daemon was moved to kernel |
| 14:07.23 | Pali | so there is no bme daemon |
| 14:07.37 | Pali | so no daemon started by upstart |
| 14:07.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | upstart job file should take care to *configure* sysfs nodes to do proper charging, and should stop charging via same sysfs nodes on `stop bme` |
| 14:07.47 | *** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@e178193214.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:07.55 | Pali | not possible |
| 14:08.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: `stop bme` doesn't stop charging on stock maemo |
| 14:08.05 | Pali | upstart does not support it |
| 14:08.07 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, but we don't want to mimic bme, as proper way is to do it in kernel? |
| 14:08.10 | kerio | it disables any control of bq2415x |
| 14:08.32 | kerio | Pali: are you sure there's no way to also provide a "stop script" with upstart tasks? :( |
| 14:08.36 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, upstart support 1) regular daemons 2) single scripts which start when you call "start script" |
| 14:08.48 | Pali | kerio, yes |
| 14:08.55 | *** join/#maemo fantasma_ (~fantasma_@83.sub-174-252-155.myvzw.com) |
| 14:09.03 | Estel_ | but, one can prepare own script that unload all modules |
| 14:09.09 | Estel_ | and another one that load them again |
| 14:09.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no single scripts that get started on `stop service` ? |
| 14:09.19 | Estel_ | for user, it is equivalent to calling single command, then |
| 14:09.29 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, yes |
| 14:09.31 | Estel_ | hehe, same ideas ;P) |
| 14:09.40 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, because stop is used only for killing daemons |
| 14:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 14:09.56 | Pali | and we do not have bme daemon process anymore |
| 14:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | who cares? |
| 14:10.10 | *** join/#maemo M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@ip-86-49-81-87.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 14:10.12 | Estel_ | ~bq-calibration |
| 14:10.13 | Pali | upstart :D |
| 14:10.14 | fantasma_ | anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free |
| 14:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: then give upstart a daemon to kill |
| 14:10.36 | Estel_ | fantasma, check myspace, some artists publish their mp3's for free, though .ogg is better |
| 14:10.54 | Estel_ | ~bq-calibrate |
| 14:10.54 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh |
| 14:11.05 | florian | mp3s are harder, but /dev/urandom has great wavs ;) |
| 14:11.06 | Estel_ | infobot, bq-calibrate is also http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=846 |
| 14:11.06 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 14:11.15 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, that daemon must be started by upstart by same config file |
| 14:11.16 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, is it proper way to mess with factoids? |
| 14:11.19 | kerio | creativecommons.org also lists freely-distributable music |
| 14:11.34 | Estel_ | florian, lol :) |
| 14:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | fantasma_: on russian servers, and don't ask here please |
| 14:11.51 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, why, many legal creative commons out there :P |
| 14:12.02 | kerio | Pali: i distinctly remember seeing some upstart events have a "stop" section |
| 14:12.07 | Estel_ | and he is obviously trolling, anyway |
| 14:12.10 | kerio | is that called after the running process is TERMed? |
| 14:12.11 | fantasma_ | anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free |
| 14:12.20 | Estel_ | just ban him already ;) |
| 14:12.25 | Pali | kerio, in upstart there is "pre-stop" section which is called before killing daemon |
| 14:12.35 | Pali | but if daemon is not running, then nothing is called |
| 14:12.37 | jacekowski | fantasma_: you can download them on the internet |
| 14:12.50 | Estel_ | it's a bot, or bored person |
| 14:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: looks ok (factoids) |
| 14:12.59 | Estel_ | nods |
| 14:13.10 | elrazad | is it possible to use burst mode for best picture like samsung on maemo n900?thank you. |
| 14:13.16 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, fake solution which doing ubuntu is: create new upstart file "script-stop" which do that job and is started as "start stript-stop" |
| 14:13.20 | Estel_ | elrazad, yes, with fCam |
| 14:14.30 | Estel_ | there is 4x or 8x burst mode, although "burst" is quite slow, keep that in mind |
| 14:14.47 | Estel_ | don't expect to get 8 pictures in 0,5 second |
| 14:15.02 | Estel_ | think rather about 2-3 seconds for 8 |
| 14:15.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I suggest another approach: a script that gets started by upstart job/control file, does all the needed sysfs setup for charging, and has a `trap "stop-charging" EXIT` that gets executed when upstarts kills this "daemon" |
| 14:15.07 | kerio | Pali: anyway, i think that we eventually condensed all the discussion about when to shutdown as "configurable, defaulting to EDV1 *flag*" |
| 14:15.28 | Estel_ | kerio, nope |
| 14:15.35 | Estel_ | edv1 flag itself doesn't calibrate |
| 14:15.40 | kerio | so? |
| 14:15.43 | Estel_ | it need to be for 15 seconds |
| 14:15.49 | kerio | no, you're wrong :) |
| 14:15.50 | Estel_ | without going to 0 again |
| 14:16.01 | kerio | EDV1 flag is set when the voltage is below EDV1 for 15 seconds or whatever |
| 14:16.14 | Estel_ | ough, is yes, it would be easy approach |
| 14:16.20 | kerio | *if |
| 14:16.24 | Estel_ | but user configurable gconf as addition is a must :) |
| 14:16.25 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I do not want to have running some FAKE processes... |
| 14:16.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not? |
| 14:16.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bme isn't part of maemo semantics, imo |
| 14:16.46 | Pali | why? |
| 14:17.01 | Pali | btw, there is no /sys init code for bme replacement |
| 14:17.05 | kerio | things that rely on "stop bme" will probably not work properly with the bme replacement anyway |
| 14:17.09 | Pali | all doing kernel when loading bq modules |
| 14:17.59 | Estel_ | Pali, so summing it up (I'll write wiki article AGAIN in a hour or so...) - you need to check for edv1 FLAG, not voltage, and shutdown device few secdonds later |
| 14:18.24 | Estel_ | as edv1 flag is set after edv1 voltage was for 15 seconds |
| 14:18.30 | kerio | i wonder how to make my script work now, though |
| 14:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: upstart however is the standard way to start and stop services on upstart systems. charging as well as hostmode/vboost are such services |
| 14:18.34 | kerio | without checking every second |
| 14:18.37 | Estel_ | but please, please, allow gconf setting of limit manually |
| 14:18.39 | Estel_ | too |
| 14:18.43 | *** part/#maemo fantasma_ (~fantasma_@83.sub-174-252-155.myvzw.com) |
| 14:18.58 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, not services, but daemons |
| 14:19.01 | elrazad | Estel_: thank you |
| 14:19.07 | Pali | and hostmode/vboost is not daemon |
| 14:19.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: not daemons but services |
| 14:19.26 | Pali | upstart is for 1) starting/stopping daemons and 2) starting scripts |
| 14:19.31 | Estel_ | hm, DocScrutinizer05, but it would complicate automatic usb hostmode like Pali's? kernel approach seems more sane, less bugs-prone and easier to understand |
| 14:19.47 | Estel_ | elrazad, you're welcome :) |
| 14:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: automatic kernel based hostmode? wtf?? |
| 14:20.13 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, see usbmode |
| 14:20.16 | Estel_ | ~usbmode |
| 14:20.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: fwiw, the result of "stop bme" isn't quite clear, even in stock maemo |
| 14:20.17 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, not services but daemons, look into upstart code |
| 14:20.31 | *** join/#maemo VD (priv8@my.irc.so) |
| 14:21.28 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, really upstart does not support services... so this cannot be fixed on maemo (or any upstart based system)... |
| 14:21.53 | Pali | I played with upstart more times, not possible |
| 14:22.03 | Estel_ | infobot, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658&highlight=usbmode |
| 14:22.03 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 14:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | /etc/events.d/shutdown - a *deamon*? |
| 14:22.25 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_droid (~wrt54gl@190.211.81.139) |
| 14:22.27 | Estel_ | infobot, no, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 |
| 14:22.27 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 14:22.33 | Estel_ | ~usbmode |
| 14:22.33 | infobot | hmm... usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 |
| 14:22.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | pin-query - a *deamon*? |
| 14:23.21 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, daemons and tasks |
| 14:23.28 | Pali | see irc log |
| 14:23.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | so a service is no task? |
| 14:23.42 | Estel_ | aka scripts, but not services |
| 14:23.56 | Pali | task is something which can be started and is immediately stopped |
| 14:24.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh |
| 14:24.27 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, you cannot call to stop stopped task |
| 14:24.30 | Pali | so it is not service |
| 14:24.34 | Estel_ | ubuntu goes around it by "start foobar-stop" but it's lame |
| 14:24.41 | Estel_ | and we don't want it in maemo |
| 14:24.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so whatever your definition, a shellscript that sets up and also stops charging is either of both |
| 14:25.08 | Pali | and do want to start and stop charging immedtiately?? |
| 14:25.25 | Pali | this is what will do upstart task |
| 14:25.50 | Pali | upstart daemon: start, run, stop |
| 14:25.57 | Pali | upstart task: start, stop |
| 14:26.33 | Pali | so when you tell upstart to start task it will do: run start script and then run stop script |
| 14:26.33 | Estel_ | file a bug against upstart (joking) |
| 14:26.39 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05 ^^^^ |
| 14:26.56 | Pali | so bme replacement charging is *not* upsatrt task |
| 14:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry that starts to be fapping with definitions pulled outa somebody's back end |
| 14:27.59 | Pali | SysV init daemon calling stop script always |
| 14:28.18 | Pali | upstart init daemon calling stop script only if daemon is still running |
| 14:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I don't give a F about this stuff being called a daemon, a task, a process, or a frablldrpft |
| 14:28.39 | deepy | I shall name my next variable into frablldrpft |
| 14:28.45 | jaska | pft |
| 14:28.46 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, upstart does not support what you want |
| 14:29.14 | Pali | you can report bug to ubunut (upstart maintainer), that is all :D |
| 14:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | bs, obviously it does, it's just pali don't want a fake process |
| 14:30.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | because that fake process doesn't qualify for dunnowhat |
| 14:31.12 | Pali | yes, because bme replacement goal is to remove BME process |
| 14:31.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | says who? |
| 14:31.36 | Pali | I |
| 14:31.59 | Pali | why on the earth there must be some process which doing nothing?? |
| 14:32.31 | Pali | then it is stupid implementation |
| 14:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | because upstart can't execute a script when calling `stop foobar` |
| 14:32.53 | Estel_ | but why we want it anyway? the fake process doing nothing?a |
| 14:32.54 | Pali | and why we need it?? |
| 14:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there's no such process |
| 14:33.15 | Estel_ | we can have a script that unload modules and load them, on user's discretion |
| 14:33.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | to run proper setup & teardown of charging |
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| 14:33.33 | Estel_ | erm, but it works already via sysfs entries? |
| 14:33.37 | Pali | loading and unloading kernel drivers should not be done by users... |
| 14:33.53 | Estel_ | I've set mine up to always charge at 1250 mA, no need for setting it manually |
| 14:33.54 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, setup is in kernel |
| 14:34.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's shit |
| 14:34.25 | Pali | kernel drivers should be loaded by some hotplug daemon ... |
| 14:34.55 | Estel_ | Pali, but if user want, he can prepare his script to be run as root, it's free choice. if we need to stop bme replacement for any reason, like calibration till bugs are fixed |
| 14:35.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, battery hotplug, suuuure |
| 14:35.01 | Pali | we have blacklisted it... which is not proper way |
| 14:35.22 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I mean hotplug of kernel device structures |
| 14:35.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: by "takedown of charger" you mean "stop telling anything to bq24k and default to emergency charge"? |
| 14:36.10 | Estel_ | unloading modules does just that |
| 14:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | by takedown of charger i mean "echo stop >/sysfs/*/bq24150/mode" |
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| 14:38.11 | kerio | but that's not what `stop bme` in stock maemo does! |
| 14:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it basically is exactly that |
| 14:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | it stops bme from writing any values to bq24150, incl tickling watchdog |
| 14:40.24 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: off mode in bq24k-charger is actually off |
| 14:40.35 | kerio | aka it keeps petting the watchdog |
| 14:40.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a bug then |
| 14:41.02 | Pali | you can also turn off watchdog by some sysfs entry |
| 14:41.07 | Pali | but I do not remember name :-) |
| 14:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | sysnodemodereg[bit:bit]valuessemantics |
| 14:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | watchdogr/w0[7]"reset" (w)write 1 to TMR_RST to reset watchdog, stops auto |
| 14:41.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | **stops auto** is the key here |
| 14:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt |
| 14:42.08 | Pali | sysfs node name is "timer" |
| 14:42.25 | Pali | echo off > timer |
| 14:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is not a timer, but meh |
| 14:42.40 | Pali | echo auto > timer |
| 14:42.52 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, in datasheet it is under "timer" name |
| 14:43.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | the datasheet is not written for linux |
| 14:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | in linux a timer has a clear meaning |
| 14:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | this however is a watchdog, no timer |
| 14:44.02 | Pali | you can send patch to upstream for discusstion :-) |
| 14:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can tell e.g. from the fact that this register doesn't provide any time values at all |
| 14:46.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's clearly a watchdog which you can reset and switch to "auto" mode (you can't enable/disable it due to the way the chip works) - however you can't read or write any time values to it |
| 14:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's no timer for any meaning of timer as used in linux world |
| 14:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and stopping bme is exactly this basically: not continuing to tickle the timer |
| 14:51.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | while *starting* bme should write some user defined values from /etc/our-new-great-charging to sysnodes of bq24150 to configure it for proper charging |
| 14:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't want to rely on kernel hardcoded defaults or module loadtime parameters for that |
| 14:53.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a shellscript 10liner that does exactly this on upstart start newbme and upstart stop newbme while lingering around doing nothing the rest of the time is just fine in my book |
| 14:54.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever (except pali a few minutes ago) claimed that the topmost goal of bme-replavcement was to get rif of any and all bme processes in userland |
| 14:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | to get rid* |
| 14:56.01 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: to get rid off bme process which doing nothing |
| 14:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | original goal of bme-replacement been to gain control over bq24150 and allow switching to charging, boostmode, whatnot else and stop nonsense like premature shutdown |
| 14:57.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: original goal was to have FOSS BME replacement |
| 14:57.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: the process *is* doing something, on startup and on exit |
| 14:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's absolutely the least goal in this whole effort, freemangordon |
| 14:57.56 | kerio | Pali: what are the goals of bme replacement? |
| 14:58.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | since FOSS in itself is an achievement only for Mr RMS |
| 14:58.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you may check the (c) in libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme |
| 14:58.42 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I guess the author knows better than you what his goal was |
| 14:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | so only fools and RMS are doing something just to tag a FOSS label on it |
| 14:59.16 | freemangordon | the point was about the original goal |
| 14:59.27 | freemangordon | not about your vision of what fool is ;) |
| 14:59.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the author of what? of the original idea of bme replacement? |
| 14:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's me then |
| 14:59.55 | freemangordon | the author is the one that writes some code |
| 15:00.10 | freemangordon | as we speak for BME replacement... |
| 15:00.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was talking about original bme replacement effort though, not about original bme replacement code |
| 15:00.48 | freemangordon | oh, right |
| 15:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | in this case the effort predates the code by far |
| 15:02.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes |
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| 15:03.26 | freemangordon | because BME was/is one of the biggest obstacles |
| 15:04.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, goals: removing BME binary and allow charging on all systems (not only maemo), auto charging in kernel, switching to boost mode for hostmode, allow to change any bq24x property via sysfs, allow bq calibrate |
| 15:04.19 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 15:05.06 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, something missing? |
| 15:05.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: again incorrect. while mer had some need for a FOSS bme replacement, the major drive came from hostmode |
| 15:05.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: sounds correct |
| 15:05.54 | Pali | my goal is *not* introduce new fake process because upstart is stupid |
| 15:07.20 | Pali | you can create your own script which set bq values as you want (disable, wd, turn of charger, whatever...), but default behaviour is to charge battery when charger is connected |
| 15:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme |
| 15:07.58 | Pali | better: port hildon-desktop to other platforms |
| 15:08.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf got hildon desktop to do with bme? |
| 15:08.29 | Pali | why we using maemo is not because of nokia daemons like bme, dsme, ... |
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| 15:09.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | speak for yourself |
| 15:09.38 | Pali | I bet that there is no man who using maemo because of BME and DSME |
| 15:10.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I'm not exactly eager to use a maemo that's missing both |
| 15:11.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and just a hildon-desktop ported to $randomOS won't lure me in either |
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| 15:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw DSME is a poor example since it's already open source |
| 15:12.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe use mce rather |
| 15:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | even mce plugins |
| 15:13.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | since mce kinda open as well |
| 15:13.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | partially |
| 15:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm using maemo beause it works ( - with some closed blobs -), not *despite* it works with some closed blobs |
| 15:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | before I used SHR/openmoko despite it did not really work despite some closed blobs e.g for gfx |
| 15:17.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you missed my point. I was not talking about porting maemo to other devices, but porting other OSes to n900 |
| 15:18.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so how did I miss the point? |
| 15:18.32 | freemangordon | <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme |
| 15:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | so doesn't same apply for porting $OS to N900? |
| 15:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and wtf would we bother about other OS? This is #maemo |
| 15:19.33 | freemangordon | hehe |
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| 15:19.46 | freemangordon | I am discussing BME, ont $OS |
| 15:19.52 | freemangordon | *not |
| 15:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 15:20.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-07 16:02:57] <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes |
| 15:20.40 | freemangordon | so? |
| 15:21.01 | freemangordon | I am not allowed to write that on #maemo, or what? |
| 15:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | to be used other OSes != not $OS |
| 15:22.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | you lost me on what you wanna state |
| 15:22.10 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: BTW sorry for the typo, you should read that as "to be used with other OSes" |
| 15:22.50 | freemangordon | however, I am on my way home, bbl |
| 15:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ack on possibility to write scripts to set up bme-replacement different to what it comes up with by default. Basically that's been exactly whyt I suggested |
| 15:23.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | what* |
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| 15:25.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmt for example starts automatically when battery inserted / device powered on, then gets configured by NOLO, then again by linux cmt drivers, then a third time by rtcom-or-whatever from userland |
| 15:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not like we got only one config/init for a subsystem and that would be mutually exclusive with any other machinery bringing up and tearing down a service/resource |
| 15:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | when bq24150/bme-repl comes up on module load just fine and in auto-charge mode, that's pretty fine. That doesn't mean we couldn't handle that resource in a more specialized manner later on which is in line with standard concept of resource handling in linux for a particular system |
| 15:32.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | in SHR resp FSO this would be fsodeviced, on upstart systems it seems that would be upstart as long as no better middleware around. The middleware been bme before, now we might consider replacing that braindead "middleware" bme by a better concept and a better middleware designed around upstart |
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| 15:50.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternative: vastly augment hald-addon-bme to support all the needed functions in bme-repl and thus take over the role of resource-handling middleware |
| 15:52.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a general rule there should be generally only *pne* system using sysfs nodes, and that is the middleware that takes care of arbiting the resource to other consumers |
| 15:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | *one* |
| 15:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | while it *might* (or might not, depends) be ok to _reead_ from a sysfs node (or a /dev/device) by multiple instances, it's generally a nogo to allow write access to more than one process in a system |
| 15:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | this one process is the middleware taking care about that resource, and all other interested processes shall talk to the middleware rather than mess with sysfs nodes |
| 15:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what's our middleware to switch to hostmode? |
| 15:56.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | is it upstart, hald-addon-bme, $yet-to-define-other-process ? |
| 15:57.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | if hald-addon-bme, what's the API? I like to know to fix/adopt H-E-N |
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| 16:05.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (btw you can tell above rationale being sound, by simply looking at sysfs node permissions) |
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| 16:14.13 | divVerent | nhaha, QCPUFreq shows a CPU temperature of 436 °C |
| 16:16.42 | cehteh | i guess *something* is wrong there .. and lukily thats possibly not the CPU :) |
| 16:17.13 | divVerent | the bug appears to be known... :P |
| 16:18.51 | divVerent | one thing I am not sure about in QCPUFreq is when the overclocking takes place |
| 16:18.55 | divVerent | immediately, or only when saving the settings |
| 16:19.07 | divVerent | i.e. is it safe to just try and see how far the slider goes, or better not ;) |
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| 16:20.03 | divVerent | (I am not actually planning to overclock, I just want SmartReflex to save some mA...) |
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| 16:25.12 | cehteh | effects of smartreflex are not really proven |
| 16:26.24 | divVerent | does wine on ARM actually work? I thought it doesn't emulate the CPU |
| 16:26.36 | jacekowski | it does |
| 16:26.37 | cehteh | well meanwhile my phone works reasonable well with few days on a charge if used slightly |
| 16:26.40 | divVerent | oh, it now does? ok then |
| 16:26.41 | jacekowski | divVerent: it's winelib |
| 16:26.51 | jacekowski | but it's slow |
| 16:26.54 | jacekowski | and i mean proper slow |
| 16:26.58 | jacekowski | and has threading issues |
| 16:27.05 | divVerent | so it does emulate the CPU now... where is the emulation from, qemu? |
| 16:27.08 | jacekowski | yep |
| 16:27.13 | jacekowski | there is winelib as well |
| 16:27.17 | divVerent | ok, then I kinda know its performance ;) |
| 16:27.39 | jacekowski | which allows to compile windows applications with no changes to the program |
| 16:27.43 | divVerent | what performance can be expected of dosbox? XT? 286? |
| 16:27.57 | jacekowski | fast enough |
| 16:28.05 | divVerent | nice, will try. Let's see if it runs Commander Keen ;) |
| 16:31.21 | divVerent | is there BTW a simple command to update the sources.list.d/ file from the hildon XML stuff? |
| 16:32.10 | divVerent | oh, found it |
| 16:32.15 | divVerent | hildon-application-manager-config update |
| 16:32.25 | divVerent | much better than waiting for 2 minutes for the repo list to pop up, then closing it |
| 16:33.14 | divVerent | BTW, extras-devel apparently still has "hash sum mismatch" issues, e.g. on the dosbox package |
| 16:35.20 | freemangordon | jacekowski: out of curiosity: what do you use to compile for wine on ARM? |
| 16:36.22 | divVerent | http://maemo.org/packages/view/wine/ BTW it says only ported windows applications compiled for ARM will work |
| 16:36.30 | divVerent | does this include Win8 RT binaries? |
| 16:40.09 | divVerent | haha, how to even USE dosbox for maemo? I cannot enter the : character, which is kinda needed for entering "C:" |
| 16:41.02 | vi__ | Effects of smart reflex ARE proven! |
| 16:41.03 | divVerent | "keyb auto gr" makes : work, but swaps Y and Z ;) |
| 16:41.46 | freemangordon | vi__: hi man, long time no see :) |
| 16:41.51 | vi__ | smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load! |
| 16:41.53 | vi__ | FMG! |
| 16:42.12 | freemangordon | vi__: by how much? |
| 16:42.15 | freemangordon | 8%? |
| 16:42.19 | vi__ | ... |
| 16:42.23 | vi__ | I cannot remember |
| 16:42.26 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 16:42.27 | vi__ | like 10-20% |
| 16:42.31 | vi__ | or something. |
| 16:42.48 | freemangordon | hmm, sounds too much to me. but ofc it depends on the device |
| 16:42.51 | divVerent | 17:41:51 vi__ | smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load! |
| 16:42.53 | divVerent | under LOAD? |
| 16:43.00 | vi__ | UNDER LOAD! |
| 16:43.03 | divVerent | I'd rather have expected it to reduce power when idle ;) |
| 16:43.04 | freemangordon | :D |
| 16:43.12 | vi__ | It does feck all while idle. |
| 16:43.12 | freemangordon | divVerent: wrong |
| 16:43.16 | divVerent | why? |
| 16:43.22 | divVerent | does that mean it also undervolts at full clock speed? |
| 16:43.25 | vi__ | Because the CPU is off! |
| 16:43.29 | freemangordon | because of the lowered voltage |
| 16:43.42 | freemangordon | and for idle ^^^ |
| 16:43.42 | divVerent | I had assumed it only undervolts when below 600 MHz |
| 16:43.49 | freemangordon | no |
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| 16:45.13 | divVerent | hehe, dosbox is not powerful enough to run The Incredible Machine ;) |
| 16:45.34 | vi__ | Through relentless testing I have found for my use case maximum battery life is achieved by SR+250-720MHz overclock. |
| 16:46.36 | divVerent | wait, better battery life with some overclocking than without? |
| 16:46.58 | divVerent | hehe, TIM doesn't work well anyway, due to lack of ESC key :P |
| 16:47.02 | vi__ | about the same. Race to idle and all that. |
| 16:47.26 | divVerent | (and right mouse button) |
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| 16:54.59 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: Is it ok ? http://fpaste.org/n5tu/ my chargin LED shows me green |
| 16:55.05 | XATRIX | No charging neede |
| 16:55.14 | XATRIX | But the CSOC says it's not full |
| 16:55.22 | XATRIX | Also Chargin Current does |
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| 17:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, charging stopped and now battery is discharging |
| 17:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no thing in between charging and discharging |
| 17:26.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | charging will kick in eventually again |
| 17:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | though you'll not see this from LED |
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| 17:48.32 | jacekowski | freemangordon: gcc i think |
| 17:49.11 | jean_brat | hi is h-e-n is ported to nokia n9 |
| 17:49.11 | jean_brat | ?> |
| 17:49.26 | freemangordon | jean_brat: afaik no |
| 17:50.29 | jean_brat | is there any other usb host app which support usb keyboard/mouse integration ? |
| 17:50.36 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@190.106.200.137) |
| 17:50.56 | Estel_ | jean_brat, no usb hostmode for harm |
| 17:51.10 | Estel_ | freemangordon, is your n950 gathering dust, too? |
| 17:51.13 | freemangordon | jean_brat: on n9? USB ost mode is not supported. AFAIK |
| 17:51.18 | freemangordon | Estel_: no |
| 17:51.37 | Estel_ | right, one could keep it in foil and box = no dust... |
| 17:51.46 | Estel_ | seriously? Found real life use for it? |
| 17:51.51 | freemangordon | yes |
| 17:51.57 | Estel_ | mind to share? |
| 17:52.10 | Estel_ | mind sharing* |
| 17:52.12 | freemangordon | Estel_: see on private |
| 17:52.13 | *** join/#maemo vakko__ (~vakko@217.174.50.0) |
| 17:52.18 | Estel_ | nods |
| 17:52.22 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 17:52.27 | jacekowski | Pali: ping |
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| 17:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | jean_brat: no |
| 17:52.56 | jean_brat | seriously? H W implementation issue? or the OS? |
| 17:53.23 | Pali | jacekowski, pong |
| 17:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel |
| 17:53.32 | jacekowski | Pali: try uploading to garage rather than drop |
| 17:53.43 | Pali | where? |
| 17:53.52 | *** join/#maemo techlife (techlife@60.212.33.102) |
| 17:54.07 | Pali | garage.maemo.org /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle |
| 17:54.08 | Pali | ? |
| 17:54.13 | jacekowski | 213.128.137.26 |
| 17:54.19 | jacekowski | same folder |
| 17:55.32 | Pali | not working |
| 17:55.48 | jacekowski | what is the error this time? |
| 17:55.56 | Pali | http://pastebin.com/4sqKXxHU |
| 17:56.11 | Pali | Connection closed by 213.128.137.26 |
| 17:56.15 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 17:57.17 | jacekowski | go back to original setup |
| 17:58.23 | Pali | scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle: No such file or directory |
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| 18:00.09 | jacekowski | again |
| 18:01.00 | jacekowski | Pali: try again |
| 18:01.09 | Pali | which server? |
| 18:01.18 | Pali | garage or drop? |
| 18:01.29 | jacekowski | drop |
| 18:01.48 | Pali | uploaded |
| 18:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
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| 18:04.05 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 18:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | VCS cpu load seen quite a spike |
| 18:06.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, not THAT much actually http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ |
| 18:08.33 | Estel_ | hugs jacekowski for work on fixing autobuilder |
| 18:09.34 | jacekowski | ahm |
| 18:09.36 | jacekowski | wait a second |
| 18:09.41 | jacekowski | i've disabled cron for buildme |
| 18:09.44 | *** join/#maemo Vlad_on_the_road (~Vlad_on_t@ip-66.net-82-216-1.versailles2.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 18:11.18 | jacekowski | builder1 18578 18577 0 19:11 ? S 0:00 | \_ /usr/bin/python -tt /usr/bin/sbdmock -r maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel -u /home/builder1/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1.dsc |
| 18:11.30 | Estel_ | divVerent, you're doing it wrong with dosbox |
| 18:11.47 | Estel_ | see dosbox thread, I've published some nice config for it there, at some point in time |
| 18:11.50 | Estel_ | TIM works OK |
| 18:12.09 | Estel_ | only one thing that I've found to be too slow on N900 and dosbox is system shock |
| 18:12.14 | Estel_ | and it is *almost* playable |
| 18:12.22 | Estel_ | with correct config |
| 18:12.53 | Estel_ | heck, some people run windows 3.1 or smth via dosbox |
| 18:13.02 | Estel_ | without much performance issues |
| 18:13.27 | Estel_ | as for system shock, it doesn't work perfectly even on desktop's dual core @ 2.5 GHZ, so... |
| 18:13.41 | Estel_ | (at least on with higher resolutions) |
| 18:16.31 | jacekowski | Pali: https://213.128.137.26/builder/fremantle/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1/summary.log |
| 18:16.37 | jacekowski | Pali: [2013-03-07 20:13:27] wide-dhcpv6 20080615-11.1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository |
| 18:16.58 | Pali | ok |
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| 18:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | eeek, NOW it's even orange |
| 18:23.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | (VCS, ganglia) |
| 18:24.02 | jacekowski | what was the link |
| 18:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ |
| 18:24.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | already gone |
| 18:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | builder1 had a solid spike ;-) |
| 18:25.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much 100% |
| 18:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | sooooooo... do we have a pkg wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1 in r.m.o_*new* now? :-D |
| 18:28.37 | Estel_ | freemangordon, since community have - finally - control over autobuilder, maybe, in long term, it would be wise to think about using linaro or smth there? |
| 18:28.55 | Estel_ | more recent things, that are proven to work flawlessly on N900? |
| 18:29.56 | Estel_ | or sub-thing like with arm and x86 builds now, it would, lets say, build packages with thumb as 3th variant? just idea, haven't though about feasibility |
| 18:30.31 | freemangordon | Estel_: it is not me to convince :P |
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| 18:30.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is not us to pester *now* |
| 18:31.03 | jacekowski | thumb is an option |
| 18:31.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're more than happy when shit starts to work as it once did |
| 18:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | thumb indeed seems simple though |
| 18:32.26 | Estel_ | of course, I don't mean doing it all at once |
| 18:32.38 | Estel_ | I just tend to think with quite wider horizon, already |
| 18:32.53 | Estel_ | if this shit proves to work stably, we could think about doing things that nokia prevented us |
| 18:33.08 | Estel_ | like upgrading ancient components there, that blocked many great things |
| 18:33.19 | Estel_ | entered excited user mode |
| 18:33.54 | Estel_ | btw auto thumb option would help much too, instead of current pestering every maintainer about sending thumb version of program to merlin |
| 18:34.56 | Estel_ | so it could be first thing to try, with caution. BTW, jacekowski, where have you learned autobuilder things? |
| 18:35.14 | Estel_ | we need to start educating further generations, if you would get hit by a bus in a week time |
| 18:35.21 | Estel_ | not suggesting anything :P |
| 18:35.29 | jacekowski | i've build my own autobuilder while back |
| 18:35.36 | jacekowski | with a bit of x-fade help |
| 18:35.47 | jacekowski | although, that was only buildme/sbdmock part |
| 18:35.53 | Estel_ | ok, but where have you learned how to start? documentation, or just master-padawan relationship with x-fade? |
| 18:36.08 | jacekowski | i've used different repo manager |
| 18:36.11 | Estel_ | I feel uneasy, when such critical things are one-man show |
| 18:36.20 | jacekowski | i've asked x-fade what he used |
| 18:36.23 | jacekowski | downloaded packages |
| 18:36.24 | jacekowski | read sources |
| 18:37.17 | Estel_ | hm, and that was the thing that no one could try, talking about it like arcane magic? so, someone who would like to learn itp, should just download packages, read sources, and ask you, in casew of any confusion? |
| 18:37.36 | Estel_ | (xonsidering that x-fade is away, you're the only one yoda around, pardon the pun) |
| 18:37.38 | jacekowski | and |
| 18:37.43 | jacekowski | http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html |
| 18:37.48 | Estel_ | oh |
| 18:38.00 | Estel_ | judging by name, looks like holy grail |
| 18:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | scharfe Neuigkeiten! Ihre Bestellung mit der Bestellnummer |
| 18:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | AUF-B-2025 wurde verschickt. |
| 18:38.18 | jacekowski | packages ae here |
| 18:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Folgende Artikel liefern wir mit dieser Sendung an Sie aus: |
| 18:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2 x B403794 Western Digital WD20NPVT Green 2TB - 2,5'' / SATA II / I.Pow |
| 18:38.39 | jacekowski | http://bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock |
| 18:39.26 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, wtf? |
| 18:39.32 | Estel_ | thanks, jacekowski |
| 18:39.59 | Estel_ | if you think about it, what backgound skill/knowledge would be required before starting it? or it is not much related to anything else? |
| 18:40.01 | jacekowski | http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/extras-cauldron/trunk/buildme/ |
| 18:40.22 | jacekowski | depends |
| 18:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is cauldron? |
| 18:40.46 | jacekowski | svn with all the goodies |
| 18:41.27 | Estel_ | oh, I'm sure it does. I just try to assemble a required-knowledge tree, for new generations interested in keeping maemo autobuilder alive and maybe even extend it a little |
| 18:41.42 | Estel_ | so thing you'ved described are highest branch, tools and documentation about autobuilder |
| 18:42.25 | jacekowski | Estel_: my autobuilder used sbdmock + scratchbox + reprepo + buildme |
| 18:42.25 | Estel_ | now I'm trying to find out leaf aka skills required, with roots being general knowledge about doing anything on linux-based system in terminal |
| 18:42.32 | Estel_ | nods |
| 18:42.44 | Estel_ | any reason why maemo's autobuilder uses different manager? |
| 18:42.48 | jacekowski | now, maemo autobuilder is completly different beast |
| 18:42.54 | jacekowski | it manages multiple repositories |
| 18:42.57 | jacekowski | package promotion |
| 18:43.02 | *** join/#maemo zeq (~s_j_newbu@149.254.186.23) |
| 18:43.02 | jacekowski | caching |
| 18:43.04 | Estel_ | ah, yes |
| 18:43.20 | jacekowski | and it integrates into a lot of other stuff |
| 18:43.38 | Estel_ | but it should still be possible to get, mentally, hugged by one or two people, without years spend on arcane learning? |
| 18:43.59 | jacekowski | well, depends |
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| 18:44.26 | jacekowski | bear in mind that there was a lot more wrong with it |
| 18:44.45 | jacekowski | from xen through nfs, missing mounts old config files, to autobuilder itself |
| 18:44.48 | Estel_ | haha, I was just to ask what the fuck was wrong with maemo's autobuilder after/during/pre migration |
| 18:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | more than you'd like to know |
| 18:45.41 | jacekowski | and fixing that, requires years of arcane learning |
| 18:45.46 | Estel_ | I'm impressed that you guys managed to catch most of it in so short time frame since starting |
| 18:46.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | all kudos to jacekowski and xes |
| 18:46.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and warfare of course |
| 18:46.27 | Estel_ | I just hope that after fixing it, our student magicians will have enough time to learn it piece by piece, before next catastrophe requiring master level of magic |
| 18:46.48 | jacekowski | we have slaves? |
| 18:46.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | declares those 3 for maemo community member heroes of the month |
| 18:47.00 | Estel_ | thats why I'm thinking about motivating someone (or myself) to start learning it early :P |
| 18:47.03 | Estel_ | jacekowski, haha |
| 18:48.10 | Estel_ | jacekowski, don't get me wrong, I don't mean getting "rid" of you - I just imagine, that you may be, sometimes, too ocuppied with real life thing or other projects, to maintain maemoms autobuilder |
| 18:48.18 | Estel_ | even leaving bus incident alone |
| 18:48.40 | Estel_ | so it would be good to have someone else, or more people, that knpw this shit, it seems to be niche in Maemo community |
| 18:49.02 | Estel_ | to date, I know only about you and x-fade, as for people that know how this shit works, and x-fade is MIA |
| 18:49.39 | Estel_ | one man shows are dangerous thing, and I'm perfectly sure Council will be interested to secure maemo's back here |
| 18:49.53 | jacekowski | i only knew how half of this shit works 3 days ago |
| 18:50.08 | Estel_ | :) |
| 18:50.50 | Estel_ | could you be bothered to document things, that you have learned and wasn't in documentation, using the fact that memories are still fresh? |
| 18:51.06 | Estel_ | you know, at least some spells in spellbook |
| 18:51.40 | Estel_ | in case you or anyone else would need to fix it again in 2 years time, when no one will remember (including you) how it was exactly done |
| 18:51.42 | jacekowski | i've had no look at it i knew that buildme looks for stuff in one folder and if it sees .dsc file there, it starts building stuff using sbdmock |
| 18:51.52 | jacekowski | ehh |
| 18:52.02 | jacekowski | s/i've had no look at it // |
| 18:52.22 | jacekowski | and that goes back to another folder and repo management takes it from there |
| 18:53.03 | jacekowski | and repo management was the real problem |
| 18:53.18 | jacekowski | (and there are some kinks that i'll have to iron out) |
| 18:54.33 | Estel_ | I'm dully noting, I'll try to create wiki page about things to start when aiming at learning autobuilder |
| 18:55.03 | Estel_ | including links you've provided, and mirrors of those things, and... |
| 18:55.59 | Estel_ | now, the question is - how we can ensure that you have a vine/beer/whatever on us? |
| 18:56.37 | Estel_ | (aka donation page or whatever) |
| 18:57.37 | Estel_ | (don't expect fortune, I just thing that some people, like me, would like to show appreciation, by a small donation) |
| 19:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | north Korea W*T*F?! |
| 19:07.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | what does this furuncle on the world*s anus DimKlongILL or what's his name think who he is? |
| 19:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry, no politics |
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| 19:22.41 | n900-dk_ | any idea how to spot battery eating app? |
| 19:23.31 | kerio | jacekowski: does the new RMO use reprepro then? |
| 19:24.26 | jacekowski | nope |
| 19:24.53 | kerio | :( |
| 19:25.01 | kerio | so no hope for pdiff support? |
| 19:25.24 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 19:25.41 | jacekowski | why? |
| 19:26.51 | kerio | idk |
| 19:26.54 | kerio | is there hope? |
| 19:27.19 | jacekowski | pdiffs are tough |
| 19:27.27 | jacekowski | for many reasons |
| 19:27.40 | jacekowski | but possible |
| 19:27.54 | *** join/#maemo jean_brat (~shreevath@122.171.17.27) |
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| 19:28.46 | Estel_ | now here goes serious question, although, unrelated to repos: |
| 19:29.13 | *** join/#maemo vakkov_ (~vakko@217.174.52.32) |
| 19:29.19 | Estel_ | I need to find a file on my device. It is text file (config), that contains, somewhere in it's content, a phrase "xbindkeys" without quotes |
| 19:29.28 | jacekowski | grep |
| 19:30.02 | kerio | Estel_: `grep -R xbindkeys /path/to/untarred/backup` on your computer |
| 19:30.05 | kerio | :) |
| 19:30.30 | Estel_ | hehe, my question was about most effective way to search for it on device |
| 19:30.44 | Estel_ | as regular grep takes ages |
| 19:30.45 | kerio | meh, why bother |
| 19:30.55 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 19:31.04 | Estel_ | maybe some optimizations via modifiers, like filtering out files bigger than something? |
| 19:31.12 | Estel_ | or non-text ones? |
| 19:31.31 | kerio | how do you find out which files are text files? run "file" on them? :) |
| 19:31.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, that gets funny then |
| 19:31.41 | Estel_ | kerio, because many times my N900 is with me instead my notebook |
| 19:31.58 | Estel_ | (as for why bother) |
| 19:32.13 | jacekowski | get a charger |
| 19:32.17 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, yea, thats why I've asked, after reading ton of manualp,s mind you |
| 19:32.24 | kerio | jacekowski: haha |
| 19:32.37 | Estel_ | s/manualp,s/manuals/ |
| 19:32.38 | kerio | Estel_: you have absolutely *no* general idea of where it could be? |
| 19:32.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | get proper find first |
| 19:33.12 | Estel_ | kerio, absolutely, but I may risk assumpting that it is soemwhere on root, and run search excluding root later, if that fails |
| 19:33.32 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, maemo's find is borked? 0_o |
| 19:33.38 | kerio | ~messybox |
| 19:33.38 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 19:33.51 | kerio | it's not borked, it works fine, but it doesn't have all the options gnu find has |
| 19:33.58 | kerio | for instance, iirc it doesn't have -xdev |
| 19:34.00 | Estel_ | -power one too? |
| 19:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | then something like find / -ipath <somepath> -filetype <sometipe> -iname "*cfg" -size -NNNN -exec 'grep xbindkeys {} ; ' shoud so |
| 19:35.04 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, thanks, will test it |
| 19:35.29 | Estel_ | iname cfg must go away, as I don't know if it have cfg extension, i just know that it's plan text config file :( |
| 19:35.53 | kerio | it'll still take quite some time |
| 19:36.10 | kerio | the n900's io is kinda slow, you just gotta accept it |
| 19:36.20 | *** join/#maemo |njsf| (~|njsf|@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 19:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need to adapt the find parameters anyway. I already spotted two typos/errors I made |
| 19:36.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | man find |
| 19:36.40 | Estel_ | I'm setting up N900 (protected in otterbox) as first computer for my 4 years old son... He asked me for one since a year or so, and I promised that if I manage to repair one of damaged ones that I have, it will be his :) just repaired one |
| 19:36.56 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, have this man opened anyway |
| 19:37.22 | Estel_ | now, there was a thing to run some program as *user* everytime device boots |
| 19:37.31 | Estel_ | /etc/event.d/ runs as root, sadly... |
| 19:37.33 | kerio | a .desktop file |
| 19:37.35 | Estel_ | not sadly |
| 19:37.41 | Estel_ | but sadly in this case |
| 19:37.44 | kerio | also su user command :P |
| 19:37.49 | Estel_ | very funny, i need it to be done automagically |
| 19:38.00 | Estel_ | xbindkeys is quite picky |
| 19:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, use a autostart .desktop |
| 19:38.06 | kerio | indeed |
| 19:38.11 | Estel_ | it just won't wok properly from event.d, rest assured |
| 19:38.13 | kerio | also, wouldn't xbindkeys also work as root? |
| 19:38.21 | kerio | DESKTOP=:0.0 xbindkeys |
| 19:38.22 | *** join/#maemo mvp_ (~mvp@port463.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 19:38.27 | Estel_ | not for my use case :P |
| 19:38.31 | Estel_ | autostart desktop? |
| 19:38.45 | kerio | running shit with weird environments is what unix is all about! |
| 19:38.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | beware, autostart .desktop REstarts processes |
| 19:39.01 | kerio | that, and using `write` to mess up your friend's screen session |
| 19:39.32 | Estel_ | the thing is that vi once told me conveinent place to put it, so it's executed on every startup, as user, properly, but I can't remember it for a life of mine, and vi doesnt catch pings |
| 19:39.35 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, hm |
| 19:40.21 | Estel_ | I have no slightest idea about autostart .desktop's in maemo, need to read about it |
| 19:40.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for one time X related progs, it's probably xsession you want to tweak (iirc) |
| 19:40.39 | Estel_ | may be, where it is located? |
| 19:40.46 | Estel_ | may it be* |
| 19:40.51 | Estel_ | (C enya) :P |
| 19:40.57 | kerio | i'm not entirely sure maemo uses a standard xsession setup |
| 19:41.03 | kerio | and also make sure to not bork it |
| 19:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, been a guess off top of my head, nfc for maemo |
| 19:41.19 | kerio | because it'll mess your booting up |
| 19:41.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, no worries, will search for that name pattern |
| 19:41.39 | kerio | on normal unices, it's ~/.Xsession |
| 19:41.46 | Estel_ | kerio, sure, I'll just find if such file have "xbindkeys" somewhere on my device |
| 19:41.48 | kerio | er, .xsession |
| 19:41.53 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:42.26 | Estel_ | /etc/event.d/xsession |
| 19:42.28 | Estel_ | lol |
| 19:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I looked into this problem several times since N810 |
| 19:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | never could come up with a really decent solution |
| 19:43.40 | Estel_ | I'll remember to share this ugly hack, if I manage to re-find it |
| 19:43.56 | Estel_ | it wasn't tweaking /etc/event.d/xsession, sadly |
| 19:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.07 | kerio | looks like /etc/X11/Xsession.d is the place |
| 19:45.47 | Pali | use this in upstart: exec su user -c "exec <command>" |
| 19:45.49 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1912 26. Dez 16:01 Xsession.d │ |
| 19:46.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ugly |
| 19:46.36 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, otherwise it will have upstart side effects |
| 19:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | /etc/X11/Xsession.d |
| 19:47.25 | Pali | hm, this should work too |
| 19:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | somewhere around 87my-awesome-app |
| 19:47.50 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:48.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | since: |
| 19:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 200 16. Okt 2009 60mission-control │ |
| 19:48.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | │-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 72 02. Okt 2009 65hildon-sv-notification-daemon │ |
| 19:49.26 | Pali | ah, bad news, ubuntu is going to use some parts of systemd... |
| 19:50.04 | NIN101 | Pali: URL? |
| 19:50.21 | Pali | is there any list of linux distributions which 1) now not using systemd and 2) will never use systemd ? |
| 19:50.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | 02maemo-launcer and 42maemo-launcher are an awesome pair XP |
| 19:51.05 | NIN101 | gentoo, debian... |
| 19:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | is there a list of cheap killers? |
| 19:51.28 | NIN101 | +you often have the choice still... |
| 19:51.33 | Pali | NIN101: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyMDE |
| 19:51.44 | Estel_ | thanks guys |
| 19:51.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 19:52.06 | Pali | NIN101, how about debian & systemd? |
| 19:52.08 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: ping - you having trouble with and app? |
| 19:52.30 | Estel_ | hm, it's a pity, btw, that I can't check what started process, that is still runing (xbindkeys that is running since start) |
| 19:52.39 | Pali | are you sure that debian will not move to systemd too? |
| 19:52.40 | kerio | probably you, manually :P |
| 19:52.44 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxDriver (~BigBoxDri@p57B06E26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:52.53 | NIN101 | not that soon probably + you have the choise there I am sure. |
| 19:52.55 | Estel_ | nope :P |
| 19:53.07 | kerio | NIN101: not quite, udev is meant to work tightly coupled with systemd |
| 19:53.18 | NIN101 | kick udev then. |
| 19:53.29 | Pali | and what to use instead udev?? |
| 19:53.30 | Estel_ | Pali, canonical suck, time to admit it... hm, does Arch use systemd? |
| 19:53.39 | NIN101 | mdev |
| 19:53.47 | Pali | Estel_, yes |
| 19:53.50 | Estel_ | btw what's the problem with systemd? |
| 19:54.05 | Pali | I think arch was first distriubtion which started using systemd |
| 19:54.11 | NIN101 | dbus-dependency, the author. |
| 19:54.21 | Pali | Estel_, not possible to debug it |
| 19:54.28 | Estel_ | create your own distro, it's joy of foss/linux :D |
| 19:54.31 | Pali | this is why I hate systemd |
| 19:55.01 | Pali | NIN101, mdev is only subset of udev and does not support anything which is needed |
| 19:55.12 | Pali | for example auto kernel modules loading |
| 19:55.15 | Estel_ | and what systemd authors say about debug problem? |
| 19:55.24 | Pali | which is needed for hotplugging (usb devices) |
| 19:55.34 | Pali | ~poettering |
| 19:55.39 | NIN101 | it is not a subset, it's a busybox applet. |
| 19:55.59 | Pali | subset of functions |
| 19:56.09 | Pali | does not support all what udev |
| 19:56.16 | Estel_ | instead of bashing ~poettering, I'm really interested how the go around it, even if sane distributions like arch use it |
| 19:56.34 | Estel_ | s/the/they/ |
| 19:56.48 | Estel_ | I don't think that no one cares there about debugging |
| 19:56.53 | NIN101 | of course it doesn't, but I can survive with it... |
| 19:57.10 | Pali | for example 2 days ago I got mail that arch linux freeze when turning pc off because application wpa_actiond is not exiting... |
| 19:57.21 | NIN101 | there is also this new eudev udev fork, but I didn't take a look into it. |
| 19:57.28 | Pali | I tested and kill -9 also kill -SIGINT working without problem |
| 19:58.22 | Pali | NIN101, authors of eudev said something that udev fork is not for using... |
| 19:58.55 | kerio | Estel_: archlinux and sane don't go well in the same phrase |
| 19:58.56 | Pali | Estel_, another is that systemd using binary logs |
| 19:59.19 | Pali | is has stupid confguration |
| 19:59.23 | Estel_ | I just can't belive that they're all insane into jumping on systemd, if it's all that bad... Just curious, I have no idea about it |
| 19:59.28 | Pali | no direct support for shell scripts... |
| 19:59.33 | Estel_ | hm |
| 19:59.40 | Estel_ | so why the hell they want to use it? |
| 19:59.58 | Pali | Estel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons |
| 20:00.09 | Estel_ | mhm |
| 20:00.11 | Pali | and propably system can be booted quickly |
| 20:00.42 | Estel_ | erm, maybe supportt enchancdement tickets into systemd and make it more friendly for debugging? :D |
| 20:00.51 | Estel_ | ~systemd |
| 20:00.52 | merlin1991 | and it has that takes care of everything, you need nothing else feeling like busybox ;) |
| 20:00.55 | Pali | and they using it because it developed in red hat, so it must be working.... |
| 20:01.47 | Pali | Estel_: systemd is monotlitic replacement for all init daemons, login codes, poettering kits, ... |
| 20:01.57 | Estel_ | hey, I just realized that maemo isn't using it? :D |
| 20:02.15 | Pali | yes, maemo does not have systemd :-) |
| 20:02.41 | Estel_ | hm, sounds like pulseaudio being "replacement" to all sound related bits |
| 20:02.46 | Estel_ | monolithic too |
| 20:03.01 | merlin1991 | Estel_: maemo is using something worse |
| 20:03.01 | kerio | indeed |
| 20:03.03 | merlin1991 | upstart |
| 20:03.06 | Pali | pulseaudio is also written by poettering |
| 20:03.18 | Pali | upstart is better when systemd! |
| 20:03.57 | Pali | upstart has daemon configuration in one file + support for shell scripts |
| 20:04.11 | merlin1991 | and it drives me insane |
| 20:04.12 | merlin1991 | regulary |
| 20:04.13 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxDriver (~BigBoxDri@p57B06E26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:04.19 | jacekowski | systemd has even bigger problem |
| 20:04.36 | *** join/#maemo ccssnet (~ccssnet@98.216.141.157) |
| 20:04.36 | Pali | it is not working properly :-) |
| 20:04.47 | Pali | and is not replacement for sysv init daemon |
| 20:04.48 | jacekowski | it has same author as PA |
| 20:04.53 | kerio | indeed! |
| 20:04.55 | Estel_ | well, maybe debian won't adopt it ;) |
| 20:05.10 | Pali | I belive that debian is not blind |
| 20:05.27 | Pali | and now I need to migrate from ubuntu somewhere... |
| 20:05.45 | merlin1991 | Estel_: there is systemd support in debian alredy |
| 20:06.04 | Estel_ | merlin1991, but it's not mandatory, yet |
| 20:06.26 | Estel_ | Pali, debian, gentoo... does mint use systemd? |
| 20:06.38 | kerio | upstart, i guess |
| 20:06.40 | kerio | mint is ubuntu |
| 20:07.03 | Pali | mint is using upstart as ubuntu |
| 20:07.09 | Estel_ | btw what is best alternative to systemd/upstart, and why no distribution is using it? :D |
| 20:07.17 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-220-243-150.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:07.19 | NIN101 | I once booted a debian with a #!/bin/sh shellscript just for the fun, and because I could. |
| 20:07.29 | Pali | that init daemon which used archlinux before systemd |
| 20:07.37 | Pali | openrc or similar name |
| 20:07.48 | kerio | what's wrong with sysv init? |
| 20:07.57 | Pali | kerio, nothing :-) |
| 20:08.21 | Pali | above daemon is one of sysv init implementation |
| 20:09.00 | Pali | but support dependences + parallelism (if you want it) |
| 20:09.01 | Estel_ | well, only one thing that keeps me using windows regularly, are games, IIRC... and some tax-related shitty aps being available for windoze only, but that can be workarounded |
| 20:09.52 | Estel_ | once, I need to set up wine related things for games on my linux and get rid of windoze from my HD... It's just that all library resolving shit is quite pushing me away from movuing my ass into doing it, still I know one day I'll must |
| 20:10.17 | kerio | Estel_: why not invest in a crossover games license? |
| 20:10.27 | Estel_ | no way I'm installing anything never than XP from micro$, and some day, in ten or more years, it wo't be enough for games, too |
| 20:10.29 | kerio | it's pretty much wine, but with preconfigurations |
| 20:10.31 | Estel_ | kerio, wut wut? |
| 20:11.09 | Estel_ | hey, I'm not switching to linux to use closed source blobs where not required, graphic catd drivers are enough pain itself :P |
| 20:11.29 | kerio | but crossover games is neat! |
| 20:11.36 | Estel_ | unless you're talking about something else that I think you're talking |
| 20:11.51 | Estel_ | what is that crossover games thing. never heard about it (googleing) |
| 20:13.35 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: Yes, I guess so, the battery gets eaten like candy, but I'm afraid, that I have no clue on which app is eating amps |
| 20:14.01 | Estel_ | ok, I know what it is |
| 20:14.09 | Estel_ | knew it under other name? |
| 20:14.29 | kerio | idk, perhaps cedega? it's not the same thing, but it's similar |
| 20:14.31 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: ~powertop |
| 20:14.36 | Estel_ | anyway, what is it offering for those hard bucks, kerio? just wine with configs, that I can do myself, and learn soemthing during the process? |
| 20:15.00 | kerio | Estel_: it's basically a professional version of winetricks with a fancier UI |
| 20:15.05 | Pali | WTF? wine is now using poettering's RealtimeKit |
| 20:15.24 | Pali | wine devs are blind too??????? |
| 20:15.54 | kerio | blinded by the poett |
| 20:16.44 | Estel_ | hey, maybe poett is just right and you're wrong? :P |
| 20:16.50 | Estel_ | just teasing. |
| 20:16.53 | Pali | this is not normal what is happening these days |
| 20:17.06 | kerio | Pali: upstart depends on fucking dbus |
| 20:17.19 | *** join/#maemo ian--- (ian---@46.11.118.245) |
| 20:17.25 | Pali | kerio, now every app depens on dbus |
| 20:17.28 | kerio | a friend of mine had the bad idea of installing ubuntu server on his hetzner box |
| 20:17.41 | kerio | it's a fucking server, i shouldn't need the desktop bus |
| 20:18.25 | Pali | kerio, now it is cool to use dbus, systemd, lennartkits, ... |
| 20:19.28 | Pali | somebody, please wake up me from this bad dread... and tell me that was only dream |
| 20:19.42 | kerio | it was only a bad dream |
| 20:19.43 | Pali | "there is no lennart, no systemd, no kits, ..." |
| 20:19.47 | kerio | provided by poettering's new DreamKit |
| 20:20.03 | Estel_ | kerio, btw, as you have experience with it already - using wine api calls and services equivalents, games run on same/better speed than on windoze, or still performance is an issue? |
| 20:20.22 | kerio | Estel_: afaik opengl works a lot better on linux :D |
| 20:20.30 | Estel_ | My desktop hardware is quite old, and it doesn't seem having chances of getting upgraded |
| 20:20.39 | Estel_ | opengl sure, but directx shit... |
| 20:20.46 | kerio | directx doesn't work |
| 20:21.08 | Estel_ | I know, but games using it are still possible to run on linux, yep? |
| 20:21.21 | Estel_ | via redirecting to opengl calls? |
| 20:21.32 | kerio | idk, i think so? |
| 20:21.44 | Estel_ | I'm not interested in direct 10 or above shit, directx9 games is all I need |
| 20:22.40 | Estel_ | I'm just thinking if migrating to linux completely and getting rid of windoze at all is sane in my case, when related to games, as hardware isn't newest one |
| 20:23.06 | Pali | kerio, "dreamkit" - this could be good motivation poster about lennart |
| 20:23.14 | Pali | :D:d |
| 20:23.17 | Estel_ | especially, graphic card - while a beast in itself, it have nice few years... 5 or so? :P |
| 20:23.42 | kerio | a 5 years old graphics card... |
| 20:23.43 | Estel_ | or more? |
| 20:23.53 | kerio | so basically a modern integrated graphics chip? :P |
| 20:23.58 | Estel_ | Nvidia (fuck nvidia on linux, I know) 8600GT |
| 20:24.02 | Estel_ | very funny |
| 20:24.11 | Estel_ | I can assure you that this card is still a beast |
| 20:24.26 | Estel_ | managed to play witcher 2 on medium details at more than 20 constant fps :P |
| 20:24.35 | Estel_ | from start to beginning, playable :P |
| 20:24.52 | Estel_ | overclocked 50% from basic settings |
| 20:25.07 | Estel_ | the thing is, that it is notebook :D |
| 20:25.09 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: What should I especially look for in powertop? |
| 20:25.14 | Estel_ | just used as desktop |
| 20:25.24 | kerio | n900-dk_: wakeups frequency |
| 20:25.28 | kerio | average time on C4 |
| 20:25.46 | Estel_ | I travel much, so in old days i required notebook, now N900 is my travl (and not only) computer, with ssh and vnc (if needed) access to notebook sitting as desktop |
| 20:25.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Pali> Estel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons)) well, aiui my sysV init on suse does that since ages |
| 20:25.58 | Estel_ | Dell XPS 1530m |
| 20:26.22 | Estel_ | no, it was m1530 |
| 20:26.27 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I wrote that there is normal sysv init daemon with this support |
| 20:26.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i told you multiple times, nobody uses suse :P |
| 20:26.31 | Pali | just do not remember name |
| 20:26.33 | Estel_ | bought it used at real bargain 4 years ago or so |
| 20:26.44 | Estel_ | suse, what is suse? |
| 20:26.45 | Estel_ | joking |
| 20:26.51 | *** join/#maemo BigBoxDr_ (~BigBoxDri@p57B06E26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:27.13 | Estel_ | BTW there is a shop company in poland, with frog logo, that got suse stickers on every window |
| 20:27.18 | n900-dk_ | Total wakeups 6657, 221.9/s - normal? |
| 20:27.20 | Estel_ | smth about powered by suse |
| 20:27.27 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@cm-84.211.113.209.getinternet.no) |
| 20:27.31 | Estel_ | n900, pastebin whole powertop output |
| 20:27.35 | kerio | n900-dk_: holy fuck, no |
| 20:27.44 | Estel_ | and be sure to lock device after powertop execution and not touching it for minute |
| 20:27.46 | kerio | well, unless you're using it |
| 20:28.10 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, suse is OK for everyday usage? |
| 20:28.17 | n900-dk_ | screen is of and it is on charger |
| 20:28.20 | kerio | it's a desktop distro, sure |
| 20:28.38 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, is your init daemon systemd?? |
| 20:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: well, I use it everyday since >10 years |
| 20:28.46 | Estel_ | I'm using aptosid debian on desktop, still thinking about best distro for me (power user eager to leafrn new things, but not coder yet, and requiring some things just working :P) |
| 20:29.10 | kerio | what's aptosid? |
| 20:29.10 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: can you pastebin top and sudo powertop o/p |
| 20:29.14 | Estel_ | I just realized that I missed spying on suse, when I checked on every distro's + and - |
| 20:29.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: alas yes, since last update. Suse switched to systemd for default, but it still supports sysV init as an option |
| 20:29.30 | Estel_ | it seem quite quiet system, which may be not a bad thing |
| 20:29.36 | kerio | meh, debian sid wannabe |
| 20:29.42 | Estel_ | kerio, aptosid is debian sid + patches + kde |
| 20:29.48 | Pali | so they will remove sysv init in future... |
| 20:29.59 | kerio | you know what is debian sid + patches + kde? |
| 20:30.00 | kerio | debian sid |
| 20:30.02 | Pali | so suse is not for use anymore too :-( |
| 20:30.26 | Estel_ | kerio, aptosid have own set of patches too, before they reach sid :P |
| 20:30.30 | Estel_ | it's sid+ |
| 20:30.31 | n900-dk_ | http://pastebin.com/rhHFiybs |
| 20:30.40 | n900-dk_ | powertop output |
| 20:30.43 | Estel_ | sid-power |
| 20:30.44 | Estel_ | :P |
| 20:31.22 | Estel_ | n900 dk, have you locked device and haven't touched it for powertop operation? |
| 20:31.29 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, I mean |
| 20:31.52 | n900-dk_ | ohh wait, batterygraph was running |
| 20:32.00 | n900-dk_ | will try again |
| 20:32.23 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, wait |
| 20:32.31 | Estel_ | before test, enable flight mode |
| 20:32.33 | Estel_ | offline mode |
| 20:32.44 | Estel_ | terminate all running things that you don't need |
| 20:32.46 | Estel_ | and test it |
| 20:33.02 | n900-dk_ | ok |
| 20:33.06 | Estel_ | if results will be good (current ones are very bad), test it with again, enabling things one by one |
| 20:33.12 | Estel_ | until you find cullprint |
| 20:33.34 | Estel_ | your cpu doesn't sleep almost at all, something is hogging it |
| 20:33.37 | n900-dk_ | what is normal wakeupfreq? |
| 20:34.14 | Estel_ | hard to say, but in total idle (no wifip no gsm, etc), you should get ~97% in C4 |
| 20:34.24 | Estel_ | aka hardest sleep |
| 20:34.35 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: as estel with screen off ~500, main thing is C4 time |
| 20:35.01 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, are you aware that autobuilder is becoming alive again? :D |
| 20:35.12 | sixwheeledbeast | :o yes |
| 20:35.17 | Pali | wikipedia about systemd: Debian GNU/Linux has packages for systemd in the "testing" branch. There is reluctance amongst developers to make systemd the default, since Debian GNU/kFreeBSD will not work with systemd. |
| 20:35.34 | Pali | who is going to support kFreeBSD?? |
| 20:35.42 | Estel_ | Debian :P |
| 20:35.59 | Pali | I see supporting kFreeBSD as very good idea |
| 20:35.59 | n900-dk_ | heh, still 98,1% in C1 in flight mode |
| 20:36.16 | Pali | debian then will not move to systemd |
| 20:36.22 | n900-dk_ | but only 3455 total wakeups ;) |
| 20:36.41 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_ anything happening in top, rogue process? |
| 20:36.43 | Pali | >> wikipedia: systemd has been proposed as an external dependency of GNOME 3.2 by systemd's author. << |
| 20:37.01 | n900-dk_ | Xorg is on top |
| 20:37.17 | n900-dk_ | 2-3 %CPU |
| 20:37.26 | sixwheeledbeast | all the time? what's below? |
| 20:37.32 | Pali | this is nonsense that DE will depends on systemd... |
| 20:37.35 | n900-dk_ | hildon-status-menu |
| 20:38.07 | sixwheeledbeast | h-s-m using what cpu? |
| 20:38.17 | n900-dk_ | 0,5-1 % |
| 20:38.20 | *** join/#maemo messerting (~messertin@cm-84.211.113.209.getinternet.no) |
| 20:40.32 | n900-dk_ | when I start powertop it writes 'Unknown job: pmtrackerdaemon' |
| 20:41.00 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: this is normal |
| 20:41.41 | sixwheeledbeast | you got new powertop op in flight mode? |
| 20:42.40 | n900-dk_ | yes |
| 20:42.44 | sixwheeledbeast | there's something going on for the device to be running at 500Mhz / C1 all the time |
| 20:45.13 | n900-dk_ | wonder what I have done.. |
| 20:45.27 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: persist after reboot? |
| 20:48.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900-dk_: you installed crappatch? |
| 20:48.41 | n900-dk_ | just rebooting.. |
| 20:48.55 | n900-dk_ | don't think so - try to keep away from them |
| 20:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | crappatch can do that to your N900 |
| 20:49.45 | n900-dk_ | battery eye was installed, but guess it is not crappatch |
| 20:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | also some desktop widgets are known to give a shit about not bein visible, rather updtae their diplay 10 times / second. Causing shitload on X11 |
| 20:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | one of the battery monitors been one of those |
| 20:51.23 | n900-dk_ | will kill batterygraph before next powertop |
| 20:51.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I guess it's been battery usage app, which did exactly that: use battery |
| 20:51.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | way too many app devels are fools with no clue, honestly |
| 20:52.42 | n900-dk_ | but gives a nice picture of battery |
| 20:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, great |
| 20:53.01 | kerio | while true; do print "Battery usage: TOO MUCH"; done |
| 20:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 20:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | kinda exactly that |
| 20:53.21 | kerio | it works! |
| 20:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and it's actually always right |
| 20:53.38 | Estel_ | n900, try deleting all widgets from desktop, and terminating all batteryeye/graph like programs |
| 20:53.39 | n900-dk_ | at least I could see a great change in former usage of battery |
| 20:54.07 | Estel_ | N90 but it's fake graph, as it uses bme data |
| 20:54.11 | Estel_ | so only voltage |
| 20:54.29 | Estel_ | which is useless, anyway, as you have dedicated hardware for better measurement |
| 20:54.40 | Estel_ | bq27x00 chip :) |
| 20:54.53 | Estel_ | which is capable of, essentially, variable current monitoring |
| 20:55.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even that is mostly useless, since battery display is useless by design |
| 20:55.10 | n900-dk_ | damn, now 11043 wakeups, even in flight mode after reboot |
| 20:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't tell you much useful info |
| 20:55.27 | Estel_ | (even most pro li-ion chargers for models are capable of only constant current charge/discharge monitoring) |
| 20:55.49 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, for me bq27... gives much useful info :P |
| 20:56.18 | Estel_ | n900, have you tried deleting all widgets and stopping battery monitoring things? |
| 20:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but for 'normal' user all he really needs to know is "battery empty soon" and that's exact enough from stock battery applet |
| 20:56.44 | Estel_ | I suspect something tickling cpu few times a second, not a powerful cpu hog |
| 20:56.49 | Estel_ | so it keeps it from sleeping |
| 20:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | everything beyond is highly accurate metering of random numbers |
| 20:57.06 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, accurate capacity percentage is useful too |
| 20:57.10 | n900-dk_ | dont like battery empty so soon and fast ;) |
| 20:57.14 | Estel_ | and current used during doing certain activities |
| 20:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, that's you |
| 20:57.36 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: is stuff still loading? what's in top? battery monitors pointless IMO |
| 20:57.38 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, true, but percentage is quite accurate to the single percent |
| 20:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but what does that tell lusers? |
| 20:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh only 30% left over *PANIC* |
| 20:58.18 | Estel_ | well, due to batteries being bootleneck, even lusers on every os including androtoy and appleshit are quite interested in getting battery infoi |
| 20:58.26 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: I waited 5 mins, then stuff should have been loaded right? |
| 20:58.26 | Estel_ | so they could put their $$$ devices in fridge |
| 20:58.29 | Estel_ | and charge it there |
| 20:58.31 | Estel_ | and monitor |
| 20:58.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or "og still 30% left over *DROOL*" |
| 20:58.42 | Estel_ | and get excited, that they used more current to charge |
| 20:58.56 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: expect so |
| 20:59.04 | Estel_ | :P |
| 20:59.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 20:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | bogus useless info |
| 20:59.25 | n900-dk_ | might be a good time to reflash after 3 years.. |
| 20:59.35 | Estel_ | hey, but I care about my use case, not lusers one :P |
| 21:00.14 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: possibly a dodgy app/widget, more likely the latter. |
| 21:00.26 | Estel_ | thats why I want to be able to set bme replacement to shut my device down at 3000 mV, not freaking higher, as it's about 70 mA gain from edv1 using dual cell :P |
| 21:00.34 | n900-dk_ | just to be clear: You start powertoy, close keyboard and lock device and wait? |
| 21:00.37 | sixwheeledbeast | s/possibly/probably |
| 21:00.39 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.106.200.137) |
| 21:00.43 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, just kill widgets |
| 21:01.33 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: yep then wait +30 secs |
| 21:01.58 | n900-dk_ | and it is ok to have charger connected? |
| 21:02.09 | sixwheeledbeast | ah |
| 21:02.33 | sixwheeledbeast | this maybe why powertop wakeups so high |
| 21:03.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | no charger! |
| 21:03.16 | n900-dk_ | ok, will wait for a little charge then, and try again |
| 21:03.26 | n900-dk_ | without charger |
| 21:05.24 | *** join/#maemo vdv (~vdv@178-26-204-149-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 21:05.27 | vdv | hi all |
| 21:06.32 | vdv | something happened to extras-devel? every package install i'm trying from there last time fails when checking md5 sum |
| 21:08.25 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: hashsum mismatch? |
| 21:08.43 | vdv | yes, i mean hashsum |
| 21:08.48 | vdv | after downloading a file |
| 21:08.54 | sixwheeledbeast | ~mirrors |
| 21:08.54 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 21:08.56 | vdv | apt-get doesn't work |
| 21:09.29 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, thanks |
| 21:09.49 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: np |
| 21:10.40 | vdv | is there any app for tracking minutes/seconds during a call? which will notify at the end of each minute for example |
| 21:10.53 | vdv | or maybe any ideas, how can that be implemented |
| 21:12.10 | vdv | my network charges for every minute |
| 21:13.15 | vdv | so, if make a call with duration 1 min 1 sec, i have to pay for 2 min |
| 21:14.17 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: ping ^^^ - IIRC you did something like this |
| 21:15.05 | n900-dk_ | hmm, now 35% in C2 and 48% in C3 in normal mode |
| 21:15.25 | n900-dk_ | what is typical for your devices in normal mode? |
| 21:15.29 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: what did you kill? |
| 21:15.41 | tommis | can i make the unlock button unlock automatically instead of bringing the slide screen on |
| 21:15.51 | n900-dk_ | just did the powertop with out charger |
| 21:15.55 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, DocScrutinizer05 suggested program doing things like that, and it was great - just not for my use case, due to lack of mms integration (no existing solution for it) |
| 21:16.09 | tommis | i'm asking because 'repair' man broke the unlock switch |
| 21:16.16 | Estel_ | but it was able to count minutes, and even sms derived from minutes pool |
| 21:16.22 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: ^^^ |
| 21:16.35 | Estel_ | tommis, hopw he broke it? |
| 21:16.42 | Estel_ | desoldered from PCB? |
| 21:16.53 | Estel_ | otherwise, it's quite unbreakable, and you may be able to repair it |
| 21:17.31 | Estel_ | n900, still bad |
| 21:17.31 | vdv | Estel_, what's the name of a program? |
| 21:17.54 | Estel_ | can't recall it, DocScrutinizer05? i pinged you for this case |
| 21:18.40 | Estel_ | (it was a set of scripts rather than program, but still working great). No idea about counting every minute as full when started, but could be easily tweaked to act like that |
| 21:18.51 | sixwheeledbeast | tommis: i guess you mean power button |
| 21:19.16 | Estel_ | one day, if I becomed a great coder :P I'll prepare another version of fmms with hook to counting mms's too |
| 21:19.18 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: there's a thread on tmo with scripts in |
| 21:19.32 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, it was that IIRC |
| 21:19.42 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, he mean slider |
| 21:19.48 | Estel_ | slide switch |
| 21:20.05 | sixwheeledbeast | slider broken but power key to unlock |
| 21:20.06 | Estel_ | I suspect that just plastic part got borked |
| 21:20.09 | Estel_ | yes |
| 21:20.28 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.106.200.137) |
| 21:20.29 | Estel_ | well, no idea, in pocket it would unlock all the time |
| 21:20.38 | sixwheeledbeast | that what i mean he means power key not unlock key |
| 21:20.40 | Estel_ | if only power button would be required |
| 21:20.45 | Estel_ | yes, got it |
| 21:20.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | so why he wants to change behavior of lockswitch when lockswitch is borked? |
| 21:21.00 | Estel_ | he want powerkey to unlock insta |
| 21:21.02 | sixwheeledbeast | button and slide annoying? |
| 21:21.20 | Estel_ | slide on screen is annoying for him |
| 21:21.29 | Estel_ | not to be confused with slide switch |
| 21:21.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't change behaviour of a broken component, since it knows only one state: defect |
| 21:21.52 | Estel_ | no idea about that one, repairing slide switch sounds like fastest way :P |
| 21:22.14 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, what he want is to have powerkey unlocking device without "slide to unlock" lockscreen |
| 21:22.23 | Estel_ | because his side slider is defect |
| 21:22.30 | Estel_ | hardware one |
| 21:22.40 | Estel_ | and he want to get rid of software one :P |
| 21:22.52 | Estel_ | it's more complicated to explain than it should be :P |
| 21:23.08 | Estel_ | so lets say it like that - he want to get rid of apple's-like "slide to unlock" |
| 21:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, check what moh did |
| 21:23.18 | Estel_ | qtlockscreen? |
| 21:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:23.30 | Estel_ | but it's stil lockscreen with some action required to unlock :P |
| 21:23.39 | Estel_ | I suspect sliding on screen is as good |
| 21:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so patch it |
| 21:23.58 | Estel_ | hm, a patch that would make it disappear immediately? :P |
| 21:23.59 | sixwheeledbeast | shake to wake? eats battery tho |
| 21:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 21:24.07 | Estel_ | MAG would be proud of us :P |
| 21:24.29 | Estel_ | a patch to his program that makes this program gtfo from user eyes, haha |
| 21:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: no, shouldn't |
| 21:24.34 | Estel_ | I like the concept |
| 21:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | g-meter has IRQ |
| 21:24.51 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, shaking during walking would wake it up, probably (unlock) |
| 21:25.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds fine |
| 21:25.16 | Estel_ | BTW, anyone got decent idea to fight fact, that screen got unlocked when someone ring you? |
| 21:25.27 | sixwheeledbeast | speaking from experience when testing the app |
| 21:25.37 | Estel_ | no problem for me, but my mother's N900 in bag always hit something on it's own, then |
| 21:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: depends on how you readout g-meter |
| 21:26.00 | Estel_ | most of the times "drop call" red button |
| 21:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course you mustn't poll ;-P |
| 21:26.25 | Estel_ | but polling is the way most developers seems to know about, only :P |
| 21:26.38 | Estel_ | even devs of such nice thing as proximityd |
| 21:26.53 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@109.226.49.139) |
| 21:27.07 | Estel_ | with means no jedi control over device for me, as it eats too much battery doing nothing |
| 21:27.17 | Estel_ | (although works great in dosbox as some button) |
| 21:27.21 | sixwheeledbeast | hmm, yes. which reminds me. n900-dk_: how you getting on? |
| 21:27.29 | vdv | i'm trying to do apt-get install fennec, but i get E: Handler silently failed |
| 21:27.38 | vdv | what does mean? |
| 21:27.42 | Estel_ | vdv, as said earlier, ~mirrors |
| 21:28.05 | vdv | i've added http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ |
| 21:28.08 | Estel_ | really, no one have idea how to permit n900 from unlocking touchscreen, when phone rings? |
| 21:28.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: even worse: qtm knows polling only, for sensors |
| 21:28.13 | Estel_ | how to deny* |
| 21:28.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, lol |
| 21:28.28 | Estel_ | I don't trust qt in anything :/ |
| 21:28.42 | Estel_ | atmobility is borked, qtradio allows only mono... |
| 21:29.03 | Estel_ | s/atmobility/qtmobility/ |
| 21:29.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | qt got fucked up thoroughly, with qt4 |
| 21:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it took kde with it |
| 21:29.28 | Estel_ | I just can get rid of feeling that every qt application for N900 is worse than gtk conterpart |
| 21:29.45 | sixwheeledbeast | that reminds me i haven't got fennec thumb to work yet crashes on startup |
| 21:29.45 | Estel_ | freemangordon, ^^^that is what i was talking about, when bitching about qt earlier |
| 21:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | since then it got only worse |
| 21:29.48 | vdv | here is my hildon-application-manager.list http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg |
| 21:30.05 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: C4 | 82.9% | 98.7ms - looks better I guess, but still 2980 wakeups |
| 21:30.15 | Estel_ | not to mention that I don't like having qt and gtk loaded at the same time in memory |
| 21:30.31 | vdv | can anybody share consistent list of repositories? |
| 21:30.39 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: good good |
| 21:30.39 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, I suspect you won't get better results with your set of applications installed, it's pretty ok now |
| 21:30.48 | Estel_ | vdv: |
| 21:30.51 | Estel_ | ~mirrors |
| 21:30.51 | infobot | mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 21:31.08 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: the latter of the list for devel |
| 21:31.23 | n900-dk_ | ok, might also be broken battery, but will keep an eye on how fast it's drained |
| 21:31.26 | Estel_ | there is also cssu mirror repo |
| 21:31.39 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, but there's also extras-devel in first link |
| 21:31.40 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, battery doesn't have anything to do with wakeups |
| 21:31.55 | Estel_ | vdv, yea, extras devel @ merlin is best for your use case |
| 21:31.58 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_ from powertop output expecting a widget or the like |
| 21:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooooor you go.... for rmo_*new* ;-P |
| 21:32.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, it isn't working like that yet, is it? |
| 21:32.23 | sixwheeledbeast | /etc/hosts? |
| 21:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 21:32.43 | n900-dk_ | just don't use HAM |
| 21:32.55 | Estel_ | ah, just autobuilder need more work, then? so when DNS records are going to get redirected into new one? |
| 21:33.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | whoknows *sigh* |
| 21:33.22 | Estel_ | ough, some problems with it? |
| 21:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | only problem: Nokia |
| 21:33.36 | Estel_ | no big deal, just curious |
| 21:33.38 | Estel_ | haha |
| 21:33.42 | *** join/#maemo Guest80887 (~smuxi@grm-studby-128-39-149-158.studby.uia.no) |
| 21:33.48 | Estel_ | so this domain ownership discussion was about that |
| 21:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 21:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | that been about scatchbox |
| 21:34.23 | Estel_ | so, considering that repos are working and autobuilder is going to be working soon, we may return to normal soon, too? |
| 21:34.33 | Estel_ | and maemo got basically free hosting for at least year? |
| 21:34.57 | Estel_ | HiFo isn't standing in the way of using our free hosting from those kind guys? |
| 21:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:35.18 | Estel_ | sounds nice, maemo may live after all :D |
| 21:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, when i fight then for winning |
| 21:35.47 | Estel_ | well, so now, only one big issue is messing with legal mess about HiFo, statute, etc, and lesser mess with domain ownership? |
| 21:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:36.20 | Estel_ | and then, the smallest mess with migrating TMO to some FOSS engine, when we don't have anything else to do? :P |
| 21:37.19 | Estel_ | just can't wait 'till doc loses all his thanks |
| 21:37.21 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 21:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, already lost them, my karma isn't sufficient to run for next council term |
| 21:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 21:38.13 | Estel_ | 0_p? |
| 21:38.36 | Estel_ | joking, right? or tmo stopped getting recalculated for karma? |
| 21:38.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | got 89, need 200 |
| 21:39.24 | sixwheeledbeast | starts looking for posts where he hasn't thanked joerg |
| 21:39.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: won't help |
| 21:39.55 | sixwheeledbeast | i know karma broken IIRC |
| 21:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmo thanks not calculated for karma anymore |
| 21:40.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | we should replace that by a karma from IRC ;-P |
| 21:40.47 | sixwheeledbeast | was this to be fixed? |
| 21:41.05 | Estel_ | hey, I can't login into maemo.org |
| 21:41.10 | Estel_ | (not tmo) |
| 21:41.13 | sixwheeledbeast | IRC karma? how |
| 21:41.18 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, we have irc logs :-) |
| 21:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, how? |
| 21:41.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | nicks on IRC are bogus |
| 21:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | logs have no way to check registration |
| 21:42.05 | Pali | link registred irc name to maemo.org account |
| 21:42.34 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: no login on m.o for a while IIRC |
| 21:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even then, how the heck calculate karma from IRC? |
| 21:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | will spambots get most karma ever? |
| 21:42.49 | Corsac | I can think of a number of wrong ways :) |
| 21:43.05 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: Does this luck ok, or can you spot something odd? http://pastebin.com/NWYZKNcw |
| 21:43.10 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, so maemo org accounts won't be working? DocScrutinizer05? |
| 21:43.12 | Woody14619 | suggests 1 point per each million lines logged. ;) |
| 21:43.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: for me e.g garage and bugs works |
| 21:43.38 | sixwheeledbeast | spam posts? |
| 21:43.47 | Estel_ | garage does, I mean maemo.org for wiki etc |
| 21:43.48 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, look here for logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20130306.html.gz |
| 21:43.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's not working is www.maemo.org/* |
| 21:44.05 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, I see. Do we know why? |
| 21:44.14 | vdv | strange, i'm using mirror, but still getting hash sum mismatch |
| 21:44.17 | vdv | E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing? |
| 21:44.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | still under investigation |
| 21:44.43 | Estel_ | I see. Well, for wiki it worksp so no big deal |
| 21:44.59 | Estel_ | just that no one willing to candidate for council could be able to link tmo account |
| 21:45.01 | n900-dk_ | vdv: remembered to disable rmo? |
| 21:45.03 | Estel_ | to his profile |
| 21:45.06 | Estel_ | and such things |
| 21:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it works for *.m.o but not for m.o/* |
| 21:45.30 | vdv | n900-dk_, i don't know what rmo mean :) |
| 21:45.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rmo |
| 21:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | grrr |
| 21:46.10 | vdv | remote mobile objects |
| 21:46.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~r.m.o |
| 21:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq |
| 21:46.32 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: not perfect but vast improvement I normally get ~92% C4 and ~500 wakes |
| 21:46.33 | Pali | ~ping |
| 21:46.33 | infobot | ~pong |
| 21:46.34 | vdv | )) |
| 21:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues garage.maemo |
| 21:46.45 | vdv | ~tell |
| 21:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo gmo |
| 21:46.58 | infobot | [#maemo gmo] garage.maemo.org |
| 21:47.01 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, strange, I can log in for wiki, but when i search for my contribs, nothing is found |
| 21:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~gmo |
| 21:47.05 | infobot | rumour has it, gmo is garage.maemo.org |
| 21:47.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~rmo |
| 21:47.11 | Estel_ | (trying to create bme replacement wiki page for Pali ) |
| 21:47.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 21:47.19 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: must kill more stuff, thx :) |
| 21:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | missed to define that? |
| 21:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal gmo |
| 21:48.01 | infobot | "#maemo gmo" is "garage.maemo.org" |
| 21:48.01 | Pali | ~gmo. |
| 21:48.01 | infobot | it has been said that gmo is garage.maemo.org |
| 21:48.06 | n900-dk_ | vdv: you should disable normal repository and only use mirror |
| 21:48.10 | Estel_ | I also lost allmy wiki subscribtions during migration |
| 21:48.15 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, ^ |
| 21:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo rmo is repository.maemo.org |
| 21:48.32 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 21:48.45 | vdv | n900-dk_, for each category? |
| 21:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: sure? |
| 21:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | or just no more notification mails? |
| 21:49.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is a known problem |
| 21:49.12 | vdv | if, say, i want to use extras-devel mirror, then i remove normal extras-devel of course |
| 21:49.18 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: the devel one you are using mirror for |
| 21:49.23 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, absolutely - I'm logged as "estel", and my subscribed wiki articles count is 0... |
| 21:49.32 | Estel_ | now 1, as I've added stub |
| 21:49.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 21:49.37 | Estel_ | for bme replacement |
| 21:49.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | shit |
| 21:50.00 | Estel_ | expected that you may to know about that eagerly ;) |
| 21:50.05 | Estel_ | may want to know* |
| 21:50.12 | Estel_ | I wonder what get broken |
| 21:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | db |
| 21:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | my guess |
| 21:50.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | some table not migrated |
| 21:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | blame Nemein |
| 21:51.05 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, probably |
| 21:51.07 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, do i need only one repository entry? |
| 21:51.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll look into it |
| 21:51.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather |
| 21:51.28 | Estel_ | when i, for example, check history of "ereswap" article, my edits are mentioned as belonging to "estel" |
| 21:51.36 | Estel_ | although, while searching for my edits, 0 results |
| 21:51.42 | vdv | here is what i had before: http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg |
| 21:51.46 | Estel_ | so something isn't right too about it |
| 21:52.14 | Estel_ | when i check forf, lets say, sixwheeledbeast edits, it also returns 0 |
| 21:52.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: could you please write a proper bug report mail (with exact problem, since when probably it exists, how to reproduce etc) to support@nemein.com and CC techstaff@maemo.org please |
| 21:52.25 | Estel_ | ok... |
| 21:52.33 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: disable testing for now too |
| 21:52.42 | Estel_ | just a little more debugging to check what doesn't work |
| 21:52.45 | Pali | Estel_, I have same problem |
| 21:53.01 | Pali | page https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Contributions/pali is empty |
| 21:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: good boy :-D |
| 21:53.39 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 21:53.46 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, fremantle free non-free ? |
| 21:54.02 | vdv | for http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ i mean |
| 21:54.08 | kerio | Pali: well start contributing then |
| 21:54.33 | Pali | kerio, I edited kernel cssu page |
| 21:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | vdv, this is not meant to be a hashsum-errror free mirror |
| 21:54.40 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: best use merin1991.at for devel as above not we.drop |
| 21:54.46 | Pali | but my list is still empty |
| 21:54.51 | sixwheeledbeast | yes for the rest |
| 21:54.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~mirror |
| 21:54.52 | infobot | i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error |
| 21:54.53 | Estel_ | Pali, he joked |
| 21:54.58 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 21:55.20 | Estel_ | Pali, it would be good if more people would sent complains to support@nemein.com |
| 21:55.27 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, DocScrutinizer05: but does merin1991.at contain extras-testing for example? |
| 21:55.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it would NOT |
| 21:55.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | vdv: nobody needs testing |
| 21:56.06 | sixwheeledbeast | at the moment anyway |
| 21:56.20 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, no need for more reports to them? sure? |
| 21:56.29 | vdv | ok |
| 21:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: yes, absolutely sure that duplicate reports will make matters worse |
| 21:56.47 | Pali | kerio, btw, funny question: do you know ogden lemma for RL? |
| 21:56.56 | Estel_ | normally I agree, I was just curious about special situation with x-fade MIA for us |
| 21:57.53 | Pali | Estel_, todat I already sent two emails |
| 21:58.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | x-fade isn't MIA anymore, just reporting "WFM" |
| 21:58.58 | vdv | DocScrutinizer05, which repos are else recommended? |
| 21:59.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | he's allegedly looking into autobuilder next week |
| 21:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | vdv: only maemo-extras |
| 21:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and extras-devel if you need to install some particular pkg not available from extras |
| 21:59.54 | vdv | so, maemo-extras and extras-devel ? |
| 22:00.01 | vdv | ok |
| 22:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | but extras-devel is meant to get disabled after installation of any package |
| 22:00.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know it sucks, but that's the way it is |
| 22:00.58 | vdv | DocScrutinizer05: Estel_ said you know a prog which can monitor call duration and notify |
| 22:01.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | it sucks less with merlin's extras-devel-light repo mirror |
| 22:01.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | vdv: lemme find it for you, while you read on |
| 22:01.28 | vdv | DocScrutinizer05, why should extras-devel be disabled? |
| 22:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 22:01.31 | infobot | jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 22:01.38 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, you remember this nice program from tmo to log minutes anc sms and costs? I can't recall it's name for a life of mine |
| 22:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither, that's why I need to find it |
| 22:02.09 | Estel_ | vdv, because you may get something unstable upgraded. But you can leavde it enabled, if you're carefull about what you upgrade |
| 22:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the half of it are calllog SQL scripts from ~jrtools though |
| 22:02.51 | vdv | Estel_, i never accept updates from ui package manager |
| 22:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | will swamp you with "packages that have updates" every day |
| 22:03.27 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, untill you disable HAM autoupdate |
| 22:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 22:03.38 | Estel_ | by setting it to update every 3k years or so |
| 22:03.44 | sixwheeledbeast | wiki remembers uploaded images but none of the changes per user |
| 22:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | every 50 recommended |
| 22:03.55 | Estel_ | and, fanfares use fapman for updates :P |
| 22:03.57 | Estel_ | haha |
| 22:04.09 | vdv | Estel_, i remember i did that |
| 22:04.16 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, thanks, will add comment about images to my report |
| 22:04.28 | vdv | added a big number to counter |
| 22:04.59 | vdv | so that i don't get updates check on every internet connection |
| 22:05.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1050432#post1050432 here you are |
| 22:05.34 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, does it shows subscribtions made after migration? |
| 22:05.36 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: fapman :P |
| 22:05.44 | Estel_ | have you edited any article after migration? |
| 22:05.57 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, this is package real name :P |
| 22:06.20 | *** join/#maemo int_ua (~int_ua@ip-602f.proline.net.ua) |
| 22:06.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ever been |
| 22:06.25 | sixwheeledbeast | wiki has images from pre migration but nothing for changes at all |
| 22:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fapman |
| 22:06.28 | infobot | fapman is, like, Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever |
| 22:06.29 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, it shows 0 contributions from your side, so I'm interested if you have contributed anything after migration |
| 22:07.00 | sixwheeledbeast | ~botsnack |
| 22:07.00 | infobot | sixwheeledbeast: aw, gee |
| 22:07.02 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, have you seen my conversation with keiro, where I checked all packages that were rumored to cause problems with fapman... |
| 22:07.09 | Estel_ | due to pre/post installk/remove scripts... |
| 22:07.17 | Estel_ | and it turned out that it's all fud? :P |
| 22:07.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 22:07.38 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, again, have you edited any wiki article after migration? |
| 22:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can promise fapman won't work with CSSU |
| 22:07.58 | sixwheeledbeast | yep broken package list and some other stuff |
| 22:08.06 | Pali | ~ham |
| 22:08.07 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does |
| 22:08.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I also might bet an arm or a leg that fapman does autoremove |
| 22:08.34 | Estel_ | infobot: no, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU) |
| 22:08.34 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 22:08.36 | *** join/#maemo markinfo (~marek@ip-89-102-184-66.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 22:09.01 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, good point |
| 22:09.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget fapman |
| 22:09.17 | infobot | i forgot fapman, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 22:09.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget fapman |
| 22:09.24 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'fapman'. Have fun now. |
| 22:09.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fapman |
| 22:09.30 | infobot | from memory, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU) |
| 22:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 22:09.41 | Estel_ | infobot: no, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. |
| 22:09.41 | infobot | okay, Estel_ |
| 22:09.53 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, whats wrong with my factoid? |
| 22:09.57 | n900-dk_ | busy bot tonight :) |
| 22:10.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not your factoid |
| 22:10.06 | Pali | ham doing also autoremove every operation |
| 22:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it not been wrong either |
| 22:10.12 | Estel_ | it's kerio one, and he agreed :P |
| 22:10.19 | Estel_ | it have been quite non-informative |
| 22:10.20 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 22:10.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see him agreeing |
| 22:10.31 | sixwheeledbeast | plenty of snacks to keep it going |
| 22:10.37 | Estel_ | I want to be fair here, not describing it as super-duper, just stating facts |
| 22:10.39 | kerio | plays minecraft |
| 22:10.43 | xes | Estel_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72341&highlight=sms+counter |
| 22:11.04 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, since when publiv factoids are personal, and, BTW, he agreed when I mythbusted fud about fapman :P |
| 22:11.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told you not to mess with existing infobot factoids! |
| 22:11.11 | Estel_ | xes, thanks |
| 22:11.33 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, wtf? just me can't contribute to them, or what? |
| 22:11.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got a record for doing that |
| 22:11.54 | Estel_ | today I added things to bq-calibrating, and you were not bitching about it |
| 22:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | you *added* stuff |
| 22:12.10 | Estel_ | so it ratherr looks like your personal antagonity against fapman :P |
| 22:12.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's about general rules regarding factoid edits |
| 22:12.33 | n900-dk_ | Maybe we should fire the bot and just use Doc ;) |
| 22:12.43 | Estel_ | oh, dear, factoid with facts in it, rather than "never use it ever", sounds like fair contribution |
| 22:12.52 | Estel_ | ok, whatever |
| 22:12.52 | kerio | actually i think that the factoid was changed |
| 22:12.55 | kerio | or deleted |
| 22:13.00 | Estel_ | ~fapman |
| 22:13.00 | infobot | hmm... fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. |
| 22:13.07 | kerio | the point is, we don't know, because you haven't checked it before changing it |
| 22:13.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~factinfo fapman |
| 22:13.12 | infobot | fapman -- created by RiD <~GhostRide@2.83.43.131> at Thu Jul 5 20:14:21 2012 (245 days); last modified 3m 31s ago by Estel_!~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-; it has been requested 22 times, last by Estel_, 12s ago. |
| 22:13.23 | Estel_ | yes, I have checked it ?< |
| 22:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | so how is it kerio's factoid? |
| 22:13.47 | Estel_ | ough, sorry, kerio once told me he made it |
| 22:14.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why you got a very personal infraction to not edit factoids |
| 22:14.29 | sixwheeledbeast | Estel_: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=estel&page=&year=&month=-1 |
| 22:14.30 | Estel_ | my mistake, anyway, never saw rule that public factoids need permission, to edit, it's just plain stupid. Like someone make ~Docscrutinizer is asshat and you can't edit it cause it is his factoid? |
| 22:14.43 | sixwheeledbeast | pre migration for example |
| 22:15.19 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-8-202.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:15.29 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, whatever, I know that many things on those irc channels are quite not logical, like user getting bashing for editing factoid to be precise and informative, rather than haters FUBAR |
| 22:15.33 | sixwheeledbeast | also all user names on wiki "were" first char uppercase now not so |
| 22:15.35 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, I know |
| 22:15.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, *you* mustn't edit ~docscrutinizer, no matter who defined it |
| 22:15.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw you couldn't |
| 22:15.53 | Estel_ | I just wonder if post-migration contributions are found |
| 22:16.00 | n900-dk_ | let's have a voting for a factiod master, oh no, let's make that a board |
| 22:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: the logic is simple: your notion of what's precise and what's haters is simply not better than that of original factoid author |
| 22:17.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | never |
| 22:17.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | your!!! never ever ever |
| 22:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you can add to facoids, but never redefine them |
| 22:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless they are yours |
| 22:19.14 | *** join/#maemo ALoGeNo (~alogeno@unaffiliated/alogeno) |
| 22:19.23 | n900-dk_ | any better app for offline nav than Sygic Mobile? |
| 22:19.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | marble |
| 22:19.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if it's "better" |
| 22:20.00 | cehteh | monav |
| 22:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually monav does the offline nav |
| 22:20.20 | sixwheeledbeast | doesn't modrana work offline with monav? |
| 22:20.20 | n900-dk_ | it supports offline nav? |
| 22:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | for marble |
| 22:20.30 | cehteh | i meant not the deamon but the frontend with vector maps |
| 22:20.43 | cehteh | not the package in extras :) |
| 22:20.44 | Estel_ | I still bet that if I would add "he is also a bitch" to ~docscrutinizer, I would get instaban - but, whatever |
| 22:20.45 | n900-dk_ | and voice directions please |
| 22:20.55 | Estel_ | I've send bug report to nemein, cc'ing techstaff |
| 22:20.59 | Estel_ | about wiki |
| 22:20.59 | cehteh | http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ |
| 22:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: again, you can't |
| 22:21.30 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, *rolleyes* because it's locked, but it was just example |
| 22:21.43 | Estel_ | let it be ~kerio is a bitch, same result |
| 22:21.45 | cehteh | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:MoNav_03_Maemo.png << that ui |
| 22:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, i would ignore that ;-P |
| 22:22.01 | kerio | no, *you* are a bitch |
| 22:22.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | or lock it X-P |
| 22:22.22 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, ModRana seems like most actively developed nav program for N900 |
| 22:22.32 | Estel_ | with all functions you've described as required |
| 22:22.40 | cehteh | offline? |
| 22:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | leave it to kerio to delete or edit it and lock his factoid |
| 22:22.48 | Estel_ | 2nd would be Marble, although, lack some major things like sqlite tile storage |
| 22:22.54 | cehteh | modrana can cache tiles and preload them |
| 22:22.55 | kerio | also, just to remind you |
| 22:22.56 | kerio | ~kerio |
| 22:22.56 | infobot | well, kerio is <DocScrutinizer05> kerio is right |
| 22:22.58 | Estel_ | (= tiles consume MUCH more space) |
| 22:23.00 | n900-dk_ | Estel_: But no voice directions right? |
| 22:23.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | why the heck would *I* care? |
| 22:23.34 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, voice directions too in modrana |
| 22:23.55 | Estel_ | via espeak |
| 22:23.57 | cehteh | i almost only use monav nowadays .. |
| 22:24.02 | n900-dk_ | Estel_: damn, espeak is no go |
| 22:24.09 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, why so? |
| 22:24.18 | Estel_ | cehteh, modrana uses monav bits too :P |
| 22:24.25 | n900-dk_ | Can't understand it |
| 22:24.29 | Estel_ | and abusing google satellite is funny |
| 22:24.32 | vdv | how can i make opera default browser on my n900? |
| 22:24.35 | cehteh | there is some developent version with speech support for monav somewhere, i havent used it yet |
| 22:24.39 | vdv | it's so amazing |
| 22:24.56 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, I suppose you could add your own voiceset from other program to be used by modrana? |
| 22:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF would anybody store tiles in sqlite? |
| 22:25.03 | Estel_ | M4rtinK, is it ^ possible? |
| 22:25.09 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: browser-switchboard |
| 22:25.15 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, because every tile is small and you waste rest of block |
| 22:25.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 22:25.25 | Estel_ | thousand of tiles = hundred of wasted megabytes |
| 22:25.31 | Estel_ | or even gigabytes |
| 22:25.39 | Estel_ | (not hundreds :P ) |
| 22:26.09 | Estel_ | it's 3x-4x less space used for tile, or more, if you use 8bit maps |
| 22:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | wut? |
| 22:26.33 | Estel_ | storing them in sqlite is best inevntion since sliced bread :P |
| 22:26.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | suuuure |
| 22:26.53 | Estel_ | well, if you have, lets say, 8kb blocks... |
| 22:27.03 | Estel_ | and tile is 2 kb... |
| 22:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | since sqlite works so amazingly fast and efficient, e.g with tracker |
| 22:27.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we don't have 8k blocks |
| 22:27.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 22:27.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, no idea, but for programs I've used it works blazing fast |
| 22:27.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither are tiles 2k, again afaik |
| 22:27.37 | Estel_ | whatever, tiles are rarely over 1KB |
| 22:27.45 | Estel_ | well, depends on map used |
| 22:27.54 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: have you tweaked with the espeak settings? |
| 22:28.01 | Estel_ | I got shitload of them and saved 1.5 GB or so |
| 22:28.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | using 1k tiles is simply braindead |
| 22:28.07 | sixwheeledbeast | slow it down for example |
| 22:28.32 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, for non-satellite maps, 8 bit maps are, most of the times, looking the same as 24 bit ones |
| 22:28.37 | Estel_ | using fraction of storage |
| 22:29.12 | Estel_ | see comparision of google maps (normal) and 8bits variant |
| 22:29.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | 50*50 pixels are already 2500 *pixels* |
| 22:29.23 | Estel_ | same content, many times smaller |
| 22:29.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and 50*50 is insanely small |
| 22:29.30 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, is that an app? |
| 22:29.39 | Estel_ | I talk about color depth? |
| 22:29.53 | Estel_ | (ibit vs 24 bit) |
| 22:29.57 | Estel_ | (or 16 bit) |
| 22:30.02 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: browser switchboard = yes,latest from devel is good IIRC |
| 22:30.03 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: Yes, but still not the best |
| 22:30.07 | Estel_ | s/ibit/8bit/ |
| 22:30.25 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, theory aside, tiles stored in sqlite use shitload less space, in practice |
| 22:30.26 | n900-dk_ | and it's only the distance that is lokal language |
| 22:30.39 | n900-dk_ | s/lokal/local/g |
| 22:30.42 | Estel_ | with no perceived slowing down of loading time |
| 22:30.46 | Estel_ | which is all that matters :P |
| 22:30.52 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_: k, i hate voice navigation have voice on sygic off anyway |
| 22:31.00 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, browser-switchboard installed microb here :) |
| 22:31.50 | Estel_ | as said, I saved ~1.5GB, after putting my tiles into sqlite |
| 22:31.52 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: ? |
| 22:32.02 | xes | I filled my sd with 15gb of tiles to be used with trackaway. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85686 ..And it is still reall fast ;) |
| 22:32.23 | Estel_ | in sqlite? |
| 22:32.30 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, i have a menu item MicroB now ) |
| 22:32.44 | vdv | and it launches standard browser |
| 22:32.57 | xes | Estel_: tilestore from Mobac |
| 22:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | my tiles here are 7..50k size |
| 22:33.26 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: settings > browser switchboard . opera = done :) |
| 22:33.37 | sixwheeledbeast | s/./> |
| 22:34.08 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, change tile provider :P |
| 22:34.11 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 22:34.24 | Estel_ | for any block size, tile that exteeds it by 1 kb |
| 22:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | why should I? |
| 22:34.30 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, thanks a lot ) |
| 22:34.31 | Estel_ | still waste another full block |
| 22:34.34 | xes | btw, under the sun 24 bit = 8 bit = 2 bit ;) |
| 22:34.40 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: np |
| 22:34.47 | Estel_ | so hyphotetival 50kb tile is still wasting some kb |
| 22:35.01 | Estel_ | in sqlite, you waste none, per thousands of tiles |
| 22:35.10 | Estel_ | xes, yea |
| 22:35.27 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, idk why should you, to stop wasting storage space? :P |
| 22:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | bwahahaha |
| 22:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | you just waste sqlite metainfo overhead |
| 22:35.44 | Estel_ | ...as it's still single file with all tiles |
| 22:35.52 | Estel_ | no, I don't :) |
| 22:36.07 | Estel_ | as said, saved 1.5 GB, by converting my tiles to sqlite database |
| 22:36.28 | Estel_ | which is nice deal for me |
| 22:36.29 | Estel_ | anyway |
| 22:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly storing large amounts of huge data in a rdbms is braindead |
| 22:36.38 | Estel_ | your mileage may wary ;) |
| 22:36.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | as braindead as it gets |
| 22:36.50 | kerio | >implying sqlite is a rdbms |
| 22:36.57 | Estel_ | well, in practice it works, as I have 1.5 GB more for other uses |
| 22:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, my whole map is no 1.5GB |
| 22:37.25 | Estel_ | ...and every new area i download, saved increase |
| 22:37.30 | Estel_ | well, as said, I travel much |
| 22:37.34 | Estel_ | so your mileage may wary |
| 22:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I downloaded whole country |
| 22:37.54 | Estel_ | 2/3 of my N900 storage is maps |
| 22:37.58 | n900-dk_ | sixwheeledbeast: So you don't use n900 for navigation in car? |
| 22:38.00 | Estel_ | well, maybe on low zoom :P |
| 22:38.19 | Estel_ | I need quite detailed zoom without net connectivity, many times |
| 22:38.34 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk: no a van |
| 22:38.40 | Estel_ | n900-dk_, even in car I don't use voicenav |
| 22:39.03 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-221-12-167.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 22:39.14 | sixwheeledbeast | i don't like things talking at me and distrubing OMP |
| 22:39.21 | n900-dk_ | You have a wife or just know your way around? ;) |
| 22:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | using that small tiles is idiotic, anyway. And probably only done to have a proper excuse to use a SQL database which is the next idiotic design decision |
| 22:39.27 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, I also admit that I find satellite view useful many times, on high zoom, so it adds to storage |
| 22:39.31 | sixwheeledbeast | plus i have very good local knowledge |
| 22:39.47 | sixwheeledbeast | n900-dk_ latter |
| 22:39.49 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, modrana or other nav programs doesnt decide on tile sizes |
| 22:40.03 | Estel_ | providers like google or openstreetmap deefines tilesize |
| 22:40.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what do you think are the tile *I* ise from? |
| 22:40.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | use* |
| 22:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I haven't seen a single tile <5k |
| 22:40.50 | Estel_ | No idea, maybe you see smallest streets while having whole country at 3x screen size? :P |
| 22:41.13 | Estel_ | on my case I have hundred of thousands tiles from various map layers |
| 22:41.19 | Estel_ | if not more |
| 22:41.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 22:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | does that change size of a sibngle tile? |
| 22:41.38 | Estel_ | not to mention hitting limit of number of tiles in one directory, no problem with sqlite |
| 22:41.49 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, it means that saved space on every tile adds up |
| 22:42.00 | Estel_ | it doesnt matter if your tiles are bigger |
| 22:42.22 | Estel_ | 1kb above blovk size or 4x blocksize + 50 bytes still waste another blocksize |
| 22:42.43 | Estel_ | multiply it by a 500 000 or 1 500 000 tiles |
| 22:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | go argue til you're blue in the face. Nobody with a sane mind stores enormous amounts of blobs in a database |
| 22:43.03 | Estel_ | then, one can add fast compression, too |
| 22:43.17 | Estel_ | well, every sane foss program moves into storing tiles in sqlite |
| 22:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | au contraire, they store those blobs on files and the filename in database |
| 22:43.24 | Estel_ | marble is going to incorporate it too :P |
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| 22:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise, marble is kde |
| 22:44.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | kde got kmail2 |
| 22:44.16 | Estel_ | so I would rather count on their experrience and my saved 1.5 GB reinforcing it, than argue with you about ideology, when it works in practice |
| 22:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is using mysql for the maildir indexing |
| 22:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, works like kade |
| 22:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | KDE even |
| 22:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously another one of your "scientific proofs" |
| 22:45.21 | Estel_ | for me 1.5 GB on 32 GB device gained for FREE (no speed penalty while using it) is good gain worth effort |
| 22:45.32 | Estel_ | especially that my effort afterr initial conversion is 0 |
| 22:45.39 | Estel_ | new tiles just get saved to file |
| 22:45.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, I hardly see whole countries of that size |
| 22:45.54 | Estel_ | *shrugs* |
| 22:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | on OSM |
| 22:46.01 | Estel_ | as said, I don't use only osm |
| 22:46.10 | Estel_ | google satrllite and their streets overlay |
| 22:46.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe *you* should change your map provider then |
| 22:46.20 | Estel_ | (streets overlay got especially small sized tiles) |
| 22:47.13 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: the point is the realation blocksize/tile size. On large filesystems you may loose many GB. |
| 22:47.15 | Estel_ | why so, if some developers coded sqlite that allow me to use any tiles i like without wasting space due to blocksize? :P c'mon, you're arguing just for sake of it. It works, it makes people happy, it doesn't offend you or force to use it. |
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| 22:47.50 | xes | the worst thing is that so far there isn't a mapping software able to apply a customizable color/saturation/hue filter before loading the tiles. Some map provider has really orrible color schemes |
| 22:47.59 | Estel_ | xes, DocScrutinizer05 just got mood of pointlessly arguing just for the sake of it. Happens from time to time oin this channel :P |
| 22:48.09 | Estel_ | xes, suggest it to M4rtinK |
| 22:48.23 | Estel_ | I think he would gladly implement it if feasible, as it's great idea |
| 22:48.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, i'll stop arguing with a guy who never ever accepted an better rationale once he had decided for "his way" |
| 22:48.58 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, frankly, you're only one bitching about someone else using sqlite for tiles, that ois saving gigabytes of space. :P |
| 22:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh keep your nonsense to yourself |
| 22:49.46 | Estel_ | last time I checked no one forced you to use it, eh? |
| 22:50.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | last time you started arguing like this, somebody 8not me) kicked you |
| 22:50.27 | xes | no need to argue for this. Most applications have both choices to satisfy the different needs. Thats all |
| 22:51.05 | n900-dk_ | cheer up guys - why do we have so much negative spirit in here? Didn't used to be like this.. |
| 22:51.12 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, it was the same troll who acussed me of "using council cloak on irc after reesigning"? you have funny heroes :P |
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| 22:51.20 | sixwheeledbeast | just did apt-get upgrade with cssu-devel and didn't die :) |
| 22:51.27 | kerio | sixwheeledbeast: i do that all the time |
| 22:51.32 | Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, you mean new rmo? |
| 22:51.35 | xes | if you have 1gb of tiles you can fit everywhere. If you have 20 GB you start trying different ways |
| 22:51.36 | kerio | just keep a backup handy |
| 22:51.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: storing blobs in a SQL db for exploiting a minor implementation detail that could as well get reached by using a better FS or smaller blocksize is nothing to argue about, and no sane program will provide it as *option* |
| 22:52.04 | Estel_ | lol, I'm not gonna change my filesystem just for tiles! |
| 22:52.05 | sixwheeledbeast | thumb + cssu devel + new rmo on my new testing device :) |
| 22:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, there's a noob who never heard of loopmounts |
| 22:52.31 | Estel_ | and every sane program provide is as an option or plans to, no matter what DocScrutinizer05 thinks about it ;) |
| 22:52.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: dude, chill |
| 22:52.59 | kerio | you're acting like... idk, Estel_ |
| 22:53.03 | Estel_ | I think continuation of this discussions is pointless?... it reminds me of today bme in upstart one, although this one is MUCH more pointless |
| 22:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, show me one program that has option "use sql | use plain files" |
| 22:53.21 | xes | mobac |
| 22:53.28 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, google for it, and if it isn't there yet, it is in roadmaps for features :P |
| 22:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine, this app qualifies for the non-sane 2% then |
| 22:54.02 | Estel_ | mobac, modrana (and any rana thing), marble on it's way, + shitload of commercial things doing it under the hood |
| 22:54.15 | sixwheeledbeast | modrana does IIRC |
| 22:54.22 | Estel_ | of course it does. |
| 22:54.25 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: :) |
| 22:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: you said OPTION |
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| 22:55.03 | Estel_ | well, if poettering is agressively enforcing own views on things, then i don't know what reisenberging is. |
| 22:55.11 | vdv | seems opera mobile don't support flash... |
| 22:55.17 | vdv | or does? |
| 22:55.20 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: correct |
| 22:55.22 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B48F31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:55.25 | Estel_ | oh right, so commercial ones that switched from files to database without asking user about opinion doesnt comply :P |
| 22:55.44 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, so it does support? |
| 22:55.48 | xes | manage a lot of maps is a pain, porting between devices in another problem. Have the possibility to choose the format is very important |
| 22:55.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: you're trying to make me angry? or is this just another lame trolling practiceing lesson? |
| 22:56.03 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: does not |
| 22:56.19 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, do you have n900? |
| 22:56.22 | Estel_ | in fact, I'm going to eat yoghurt now. With cornflakes! That will make you anrgy. |
| 22:56.32 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:56.33 | Estel_ | angry, even |
| 22:56.33 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: x3 now |
| 22:56.42 | *** kick/#maemo [Estel_!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!) |
| 22:56.45 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:56.46 | xes | :) |
| 22:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | he asked for it, didn't he? |
| 22:57.13 | xes | tom & jerry |
| 22:57.16 | xes | :) |
| 22:57.17 | sixwheeledbeast | mmm saw that coming |
| 22:57.29 | xes | ..like a train ;) |
| 22:57.43 | vdv | sixwheeledbeast, but still, which browser can you advice? fennec seems very slow.. |
| 22:58.42 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: I use opera and put up with no flash, purely for portrait keyboard and autorefocus thing |
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| 22:59.09 | vdv | yes, it's so nice |
| 22:59.32 | sixwheeledbeast | vdv: I do wish to get fennec thumb working on testing device |
| 22:59.57 | vdv | i've commented out lines in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list with #, but seems it wouldn't work, right? |
| 23:00.04 | n900-dk_ | DocScrutinizer05: dont get why you are to sensitive and kick folks for small stuff - you could just stop replying :) |
| 23:00.19 | n900-dk_ | s/to/so/ |
| 23:00.54 | M4rtinK | I'm here :) |
| 23:01.15 | M4rtinK | regarding that sqlite tile storage |
| 23:01.33 | M4rtinK | it indeed saves a lot of space in practise |
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| 23:02.34 | M4rtinK | I had a uses report a batch of tiles taking ~ 1.6 GB and taking only 80 MB when stored in sqlite |
| 23:02.45 | n900-dk_ | no more talk about titles please, doc is in a bad mood ;) |
| 23:02.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: might do, and exactly for the reasons he mentioned. Still it's idiotic to use that huge overhead of a sql db for that |
| 23:03.01 | n900-dk_ | s/titles/tiles/g |
| 23:03.08 | M4rtinK | due to the quite large cluster size on the FAT32 MyDocs |
| 23:03.39 | M4rtinK | well, I haven't been able to come with any other workable solution |
| 23:04.17 | M4rtinK | some plain indexed binary file would probably do |
| 23:04.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | user reiserfs on a loopmount |
| 23:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or use ext4 iirc |
| 23:04.34 | M4rtinK | but I was not able to find anything of the shelf |
| 23:04.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Martix: that too |
| 23:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: ^^^ |
| 23:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry Martix |
| 23:05.01 | Martix | M4rtinK: you? again? |
| 23:05.05 | M4rtinK | of course, the users are free to use that |
| 23:05.38 | M4rtinK | but I needed something that only uses Python (which has sqlite built-in) |
| 23:05.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sqlite is a bitch |
| 23:06.09 | M4rtinK | and it is an option BTW, default is files (for sharing with other programs) |
| 23:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes maemo crawl even on 2Mb large messages db |
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| 23:06.27 | M4rtinK | indeed it is - had a few headaches till I got it working |
| 23:06.55 | M4rtinK | the old sqlite in Python 2.5 hates threaded access |
| 23:07.14 | M4rtinK | but once I got that sorted out - it really is not a bottleneck |
| 23:07.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever stores "huge" blobs *inside* the db |
| 23:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | huge == everything > a few 100 bytes |
| 23:08.02 | *** part/#maemo Aoyagi (~opera@222.18.broadband15.iol.cz) |
| 23:08.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | except those tracker fools |
| 23:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | a db isn't made for that stuff |
| 23:08.26 | M4rtinK | well, even the tiles themselves are a hack |
| 23:08.36 | Martix | M4rtinK: I agree with DocScrutinizer05, using DB for tiles is crazy |
| 23:08.55 | M4rtinK | vector data would be much more efficient & enable other use cases |
| 23:09.07 | Martix | M4rtinK: even tiles are hack? ok, and you needed to went deeper? |
| 23:09.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | datatype blob is basically a filename pointer to a file in detached fs storage |
| 23:09.49 | Martix | M4rtinK: why dont share vector data between apps? |
| 23:09.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty much standard in every db |
| 23:10.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it makes sense since a db is meant to *work* with the content |
| 23:10.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to *store* it |
| 23:10.47 | M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: but that would still need the files stored somewhere if I'm not mistaken ? |
| 23:11.01 | M4rtinK | the problem is the FS |
| 23:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | how would you index or sort or add or average blobs? |
| 23:11.17 | M4rtinK | not an issue on EXT, etc. |
| 23:11.17 | Martix | M4rtinK: anyway, SQL for your usecase is really huge overkill, have you tried at least noSQL dbs? |
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| 23:11.47 | kerio | mongodb is web scale! |
| 23:12.22 | M4rtinK | Martix: get me something that 1. uses only Python 2.5 stuff, 2. works on the N900 without user intervention, 3. is faster than the current solution |
| 23:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | loopmount ext4 |
| 23:12.51 | M4rtinK | BTW, the database is not used that often |
| 23:13.05 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: mmh, you'd need something that grows automatically though |
| 23:13.09 | M4rtinK | modRana has a in-memory cache for visible tiles |
| 23:13.22 | *** join/#maemo tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@212.179.75.202) |
| 23:13.31 | M4rtinK | so it just grabs 10-20 at a time and that's it |
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| 23:13.36 | Martix | indexed file, I mean same method like video containers use for frames |
| 23:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: use a sparse file then? |
| 23:14.24 | M4rtinK | Martix: sure - any Python 2.5 compatible modules for that ? |
| 23:14.42 | RST38h | yawns, moos at Doc thoughtfully |
| 23:14.43 | M4rtinK | BTW, structure of the database is described here: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/SQLiteStorageDescriptionEN |
| 23:14.45 | Martix | M4rtinK: you can program it yourself, just stop being lazy |
| 23:15.00 | M4rtinK | Martix: thanks a lot for your glorious insight ! :) |
| 23:15.20 | Martix | M4rtinK: your welcome, I'm always happy to help |
| 23:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: virtual size 10GB, used 200k, actual size of image file 1MB |
| 23:15.38 | Martix | M4rtinK: just try indexed file approach, thanks! |
| 23:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | mostly due to inodes |
| 23:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | moos at RST38h |
| 23:16.37 | xes | M4rtinK: i have one question for you. Why nobody asked/made somethink to apply a filter before load the tiles? (to tweak a little the colors of some map provider) |
| 23:16.41 | M4rtinK | if this indeed could be used automatically with tools available on the N900, why not |
| 23:17.17 | M4rtinK | xes: already half-implemented |
| 23:17.48 | M4rtinK | the recent versions already have a built-in negative filter support |
| 23:18.03 | M4rtinK | (using PIL, so it's fast) |
| 23:18.45 | xes | M4rtinK: the result should be make the osm maps vsible under the sun light |
| 23:19.13 | M4rtinK | xes: check options->Map->Filters |
| 23:19.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh wait, no sparse file on VFAT |
| 23:19.44 | xes | M4rtinK: thanks! |
| 23:19.47 | M4rtinK | shouldnt be that hard to add other filters |
| 23:20.44 | M4rtinK | and regarding vector map rendering: https://github.com/kothic/kothic |
| 23:20.50 | xes | the purpose would be to use the osm cycle maps offroad ;) |
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| 23:21.28 | M4rtinK | it's a very interesting map renderer written in Python that uses Cairo |
| 23:22.01 | M4rtinK | the renderings should look like this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kothic |
| 23:22.37 | M4rtinK | haven't got time to integrate it with modRana yet - any help with this would be welcome ! :) |
| 23:25.05 | *** join/#maemo loganbr`` (~user@wifi-napanet-static-206-81-98-165.napanet.net) |
| 23:25.35 | xes | M4rtinK: really nice! Another little trick missing (afaik) in modrana is a quick jump to a city/place. I have added to the app trackaway a quick search and jump to a place in the map using gns data inserted into a sqlite db: http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/ |
| 23:26.23 | M4rtinK | xes: search->address online ? :) |
| 23:27.13 | M4rtinK | but yeah, offline database search could be also helpful |
| 23:27.22 | xes | offline search for coordinates giving a place name with the results ordered by distance |
| 23:28.07 | M4rtinK | oh that |
| 23:28.08 | xes | i have created that gns db with the scheme of modrana's poi db ;) |
| 23:28.17 | M4rtinK | oh :D |
| 23:28.57 | M4rtinK | if you have some sharable script for that, I can add it the the modRana wiki :) |
| 23:29.23 | xes | if you want try something similar i could send you the scripts to import gns into sqlite |
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| 23:30.17 | xes | then the function to calculate spherical distance is just bash |
| 23:30.35 | M4rtinK | xes: sure :) |
| 23:30.46 | xes | quick and dirty :) |
| 23:31.07 | M4rtinK | xes: I guess the POI handling in modRana could use an improvement |
| 23:31.23 | M4rtinK | if you have many POIs, it could be quite tedious currently |
| 23:31.42 | M4rtinK | I should add at least some sorting |
| 23:32.04 | M4rtinK | distance/name |
| 23:32.11 | M4rtinK | & search |
| 23:33.57 | M4rtinK | and built-int import would be nice :) |
| 23:34.01 | vdv | is there any new pdf reader for n900? |
| 23:34.05 | xes | fine! I'm going to search for that scripts and as soon as i find them i'll send you all |
| 23:34.14 | vdv | or nothing better than evince? |
| 23:34.16 | M4rtinK | OK :) |
| 23:34.21 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-) |
| 23:34.25 | M4rtinK | xes: thanks :) |
| 23:34.44 | xes | M4rtinK: thanks to you! |
| 23:34.47 | Estel_ | kerio, do you have kernel-power headers installed on your dev enviromnent? |
| 23:34.48 | XDS2010 | whats the easiest way to do a full backup of a n900 ? |
| 23:34.53 | XDS2010 | im selling mine |
| 23:34.54 | Estel_ | hi M4rtinK :) |
| 23:35.05 | Estel_ | nice to see you, xes had some great idea for modrana |
| 23:35.52 | Estel_ | sorry if re-writing something, just going to read backlog - some fool kicked me, while I was eating |
| 23:36.45 | vdv | if "setxkbmap my_custom_layout" gives no error and custom layout works also ok, then is "gconftool-2 -s -t string /apps/osso/inputmethod/int_kb_layout my_custom_layout" safe? :) |
| 23:39.23 | XDS2010 | what do i need to do to do a complete backup of my n900 ? |
| 23:39.35 | XDS2010 | will pc suite do it ? |
| 23:40.20 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure |
| 23:40.27 | SpeedEvil | I don't think so |
| 23:40.31 | Estel_ | M4rtinK, lol, just saw Martix suggesting you to spend xxx hours on coding something just for the sake of it. What a valuable contribution :P |
| 23:40.48 | Estel_ | Martix, though about douing it yourself and submitting patch? |
| 23:41.02 | SpeedEvil | I'm forgetting the name of the backup tool |
| 23:41.06 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, thanks for suggestion about digitizer |
| 23:41.09 | SpeedEvil | there is one in the repos |
| 23:41.13 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: ? |
| 23:41.14 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, backupmenu? |
| 23:41.21 | SpeedEvil | ah - yes - that |
| 23:41.31 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, repairing digitizer. i'm just unsure what border garbage you mean? |
| 23:41.39 | Martix | Estel_: are you suggesting different solution? perhaps already available as Python 2.5 module? |
| 23:41.58 | Estel_ | Macer, sure, keeping current solution, as it works fast and reliably |
| 23:41.58 | SpeedEvil | Estel_: Sorry - context fail |
| 23:42.19 | vdv | is qtsdk not free anymore? |
| 23:42.35 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, I asked about any ideas why digitizer in ideal condition may workk 100% ok then, after 10 minutes, act like one part is pressed 100% of time |
| 23:42.48 | Estel_ | no visible damage, etc |
| 23:43.00 | Estel_ | not even single scratch, so I just wanted to try messing with reviving it |
| 23:43.03 | kerio | pressure damage? |
| 23:43.39 | Martix | Estel_: or are you just trying to troll on my account? |
| 23:43.47 | Estel_ | kerio, suspecting that - guy owning it was using it while snowboarding, so I first suspected moisture, but no signs of it. Also, I've kept it in silica bag overnight |
| 23:44.03 | SpeedEvil | Silica bag doesn't really remove all water. |
| 23:44.17 | SpeedEvil | I'd recommend washing in distilled water, plus a week at 50C |
| 23:44.22 | Estel_ | Macer, just stating that suggesting a hard working developer to freplace 100% working solution with something else just to satisfy you - without submitting patch yourself - is luser way of doing it |
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| 23:44.47 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, hm... anyway, I suspect it to be a damage due to pressure at one point |
| 23:44.59 | M4rtinK | BTW, for anyone interested, the modRana upstream repository is here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana |
| 23:45.00 | Estel_ | had smth like that once, and "massaging" digitizerr + some time helped |
| 23:45.09 | Estel_ | problems never returned |
| 23:45.15 | Martix | Estel_: delegating is crucial part of timemanagement :-) |
| 23:45.30 | Estel_ | but this one digitizer is strange, I suspect while he was snowboarding, something pressed against center of N900 screen |
| 23:45.45 | M4rtinK | Merge requests welcome ! (like the nice one from Wikiwide I've merged just two days ago :) ) |
| 23:45.55 | Estel_ | :) |
| 23:45.57 | Martix | Estel_: along with setting priorities |
| 23:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Estel - that's also possible |
| 23:46.20 | Estel_ | so changing sqlite database is priority for smth about year 2145 |
| 23:46.34 | Estel_ | if watching porn doesn't pop up before it |
| 23:46.55 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, anyway I wanted to try checking for that border contamination you've mentioned |
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| 23:47.04 | Estel_ | just don't exactly get what it is |
| 23:47.46 | Estel_ | otherwise I'm going bitch mode and selling it on ebay, condition "unknown", visually perfect (no single scratch) :P |
| 23:49.26 | Estel_ | even huge red warning about buying at own risk and unknown condition won't stop fools from buying due to it having no scratches *evil mode* |
| 23:49.54 | Estel_ | SpeedEvil, so what is border contamination? or you just mean dirt behind it and screen? in that case nope, as I disassembled it to barebones |
| 23:49.56 | SpeedEvil | Estel - if stuff gets damp, especially if the water is not pure, nasty stuff happens. |
| 23:50.13 | SpeedEvil | This includes electroplating inside the PCB. |
| 23:50.51 | SpeedEvil | For more mild cases, washing off the PCB, perhaps with mild brushing, and distilled water, then very thorough drying can help |
| 23:51.15 | Estel_ | sure thing, will try destiled water... Still, I bet on pressure damage, just curious why no visual symptomes |
| 23:51.20 | Estel_ | you mean pcb of digitizer? |
| 23:51.36 | Estel_ | (only digitizer is fubar) |
| 23:52.08 | XDS2010 | i can't get backup menu to install for some odd reason |
| 23:52.15 | Estel_ | btw as for silica bag I mean 0.5 kg bag and digitizer was *inside* :P |
| 23:52.18 | XDS2010 | installation failed ? |
| 23:52.36 | Estel_ | XDS2010, logs please? |
| 23:52.54 | XDS2010 | Estel_: not sure i can get to them atm |
| 23:52.58 | XDS2010 | ill try |
| 23:53.27 | XDS2010 | Estel_: what are we looking for ? |
| 23:53.34 | Estel_ | sure you can, use apt or fapman |
| 23:53.45 | Estel_ | whole log after apt-get install backupmenu |
| 23:53.57 | Estel_ | pastebinned somewhere (for example, zerobin) |
| 23:54.02 | M4rtinK | good night ! :) |
| 23:54.28 | XDS2010 | Estel_: spru.ng work :P |
| 23:54.53 | XDS2010 | some crazy error about disk space |
| 23:55.04 | Estel_ | bb M4rtinK |
| 23:55.44 | xes | M4rtinK: |
| 23:56.06 | xes | M4rtinK: just found the scripts |
| 23:56.53 | XDS2010 | Estel_: it says required diskspace isn't enough ? thats not possible |
| 23:57.18 | XDS2010 | im not connected in mass storage or pc suite mode either |
| 23:57.43 | Estel_ | rootfs not full? |
| 23:58.05 | XDS2010 | nope |
