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| 03:26.03 | alec1 | i can't seem to find out how to install the maemo sdk |
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| 03:37.24 | thedead1440 | alec_: use the virtual image from http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo-dev-env-downloads/ |
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| 03:43.47 | alec_ | ok, thanks, thedead1440 |
| 03:44.11 | alec_ | that seems like the ideal solution |
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| 03:52.30 | Zaerc | I wonder if it would be possible to set up a native SDK |
| 03:54.20 | Zaerc | however unpractical it might be |
| 03:55.01 | alec_ | any advantages to that setup, zaerc? |
| 03:55.18 | alec_ | i just want to cross-compile transmission-gtk >= v2.6 |
| 03:55.24 | alec_ | er, transmission-cli |
| 03:55.35 | alec_ | because transmission in the repos doesn't support magnet links |
| 03:55.36 | Zaerc | other then that it would be very slow? I don't think so |
| 03:55.42 | alec_ | ah |
| 03:56.01 | Zaerc | it would just be for fun |
| 03:56.16 | alec_ | yeah |
| 03:56.25 | Zaerc | I guess I've been playing with easy-debian to much ;) |
| 03:56.35 | alec_ | btw, how does stuff in /opt end up in the PATH? |
| 03:56.53 | alec_ | because if i `echo $PATH` i just get /usr/bin and /bin |
| 03:57.11 | alec_ | so obviously there's some kind of behind-the-scenes magic |
| 03:57.18 | alec_ | the problem is that it's a bit inconsistent |
| 03:57.29 | Zaerc | stuff like that is usually set in the shell's startup scripts |
| 03:57.42 | alec_ | for instance, coreutils-gnu installs into a gnu subdirectory that's not part of the PATH |
| 03:57.51 | alec_ | ok |
| 03:58.05 | alec_ | what is the startup script for ash/xterminal? |
| 03:58.09 | alec_ | .ashrc? |
| 03:58.09 | Zaerc | like /etc/profile, ~/.profile, ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc |
| 03:58.26 | Zaerc | yeah that could be one of them too |
| 04:00.03 | Zaerc | for the time being, you can always do: export PATH=$PATH:/opt/whatever |
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| 04:00.12 | alec_ | i won't =) |
| 04:00.21 | alec_ | i did that and bricked my phone |
| 04:00.25 | alec_ | no idea how |
| 04:00.43 | alec_ | suddenly nothing was executable |
| 04:00.49 | alec_ | the OS wouldn't start |
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| 04:01.04 | Zaerc | hmmm, that must have been some other issue |
| 04:01.06 | alec_ | there seems to be some kind of behind-the-scenes magic regarding the PATH |
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| 04:01.39 | alec_ | is there a way to install maemo in an emulator so that i can run commands on my computer before running them on my phone? |
| 04:02.12 | alec_ | emulator/vm? |
| 04:02.56 | Zaerc | should be possible, but I can't tell you how |
| 04:03.01 | alec_ | ok |
| 04:03.30 | eccerr0r | types in PATH=$PATH:/opt/whatever into a pty... |
| 04:03.58 | eccerr0r | OH NO !!! IT... |
| 04:04.01 | eccerr0r | didn't do anything! |
| 04:04.27 | Zaerc | you forgot the "export" in front ;) |
| 04:05.28 | Zaerc | and it's funnier when you kill your irc client :D |
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| 04:05.41 | eccerr0r | heh |
| 04:06.17 | eccerr0r | would be even funnier if it killed the n900 AND my bnc :) |
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| 04:07.57 | alec_ | i also chmod -x'ed /usr/bin/find |
| 04:08.00 | alec_ | that could have been the thing that did it |
| 04:08.11 | eccerr0r | why would you do that? |
| 04:08.12 | alec_ | but the problem didn't start until i exported the PATH |
| 04:08.37 | eccerr0r | chmod -x find would kill your system |
| 04:08.45 | alec_ | because i had installed gnu find and wanted to run it with the -exec option |
| 04:08.57 | alec_ | why does it? |
| 04:09.01 | eccerr0r | yeah... that's exactly what happend |
| 04:09.07 | alec_ | ok |
| 04:09.08 | eccerr0r | you killed your system by chmod -x find... |
| 04:09.22 | eccerr0r | if you rm find, or mv find find.old --- these are ok |
| 04:09.28 | eccerr0r | but chmod -x find = bad things happen |
| 04:09.46 | alec_ | weird |
| 04:09.50 | alec_ | any clue why? |
| 04:09.59 | Zaerc | startup scripts go haywire? |
| 04:10.04 | eccerr0r | because it's a symlink to busybox which is very important |
| 04:10.16 | alec_ | well, everything just stopped being executable at that point |
| 04:10.18 | Zaerc | ah right... and ouch |
| 04:10.18 | alec_ | everything |
| 04:10.38 | alec_ | hard or soft link, eccerr0r? |
| 04:11.14 | eccerr0r | doesnt matter |
| 04:11.35 | Zaerc | alec_: next time try adding the path to your new "find" in front |
| 04:11.51 | Zaerc | then do "hash -r" (iirc |
| 04:11.52 | eccerr0r | PATH=newpath:$PATH :D |
| 04:13.16 | Zaerc | you can check which one is being used with "type find" |
| 04:13.42 | eccerr0r | wow... questions for the powers that be, if you did something silly like delete busybox...is this recoverable on the n900? |
| 04:13.58 | eccerr0r | like for a regular PC you could still boot with another disk to recover...will bootmenu help |
| 04:14.02 | eccerr0r | ? |
| 04:14.48 | Zaerc | heh, I don't have that much experience yet, and I hope I never will ;) |
| 04:15.33 | Zaerc | if the bootloader still works, you might be able to boot off SD-card |
| 04:15.36 | eccerr0r | only had his n900 for no more than 2 months... no exp with it yet either |
| 04:15.39 | Zaerc | I think |
| 04:15.55 | eccerr0r | ahh that would be nice if you could root=the sd card |
| 04:16.15 | eccerr0r | kernel should be fine even if you deleted busybox or libc... |
| 04:16.17 | robbiethe1st | You can always reflah (parts of) your system |
| 04:16.27 | Zaerc | you may need to install one of the advance bootloaders for that |
| 04:16.31 | Zaerc | advanced |
| 04:16.52 | robbiethe1st | the N900 is nearly unbrickable, because it's got this other bit of firmware to allow for flashing |
| 04:16.59 | robbiethe1st | even if your OS partitions totally trashed |
| 04:17.15 | Zaerc | thanks robbiethe1st |
| 04:17.38 | eccerr0r | would be nice to unbrick plus not damage any data on the phone :D |
| 04:18.07 | robbiethe1st | For that, you need Backupmenu to be installed before you brick it |
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| 04:18.31 | eccerr0r | aha. |
| 04:18.55 | eccerr0r | if you could use that to change the root disk... I better install it :D |
| 04:19.12 | Zaerc | and there's also sth like RescueOS I think? |
| 04:19.21 | robbiethe1st | Yup; install that & power kernel and you've got shell access |
| 04:19.35 | robbiethe1st | on-device, in a pre-boot environment |
| 04:20.05 | Zaerc | very nice |
| 04:20.08 | eccerr0r | as long as you can use another root disk |
| 04:20.09 | alec_ | sweet |
| 04:20.38 | eccerr0r | because if you whack your libc or busybox, no shell either... |
| 04:20.42 | robbiethe1st | also note how the partitions are: You've got a 256MB rootfs which is on the CPU-chip-module, 2GB /home/ partition, and 28GB fat32 data storage |
| 04:20.59 | robbiethe1st | all of your user data is on the latter two partitions |
| 04:21.12 | robbiethe1st | all of the libc/executables are on the first |
| 04:21.17 | eccerr0r | ideally if one could select root=/dev/mmc1p0 or something like that |
| 04:21.47 | robbiethe1st | That's possible with the bootmenu package, but I don't know exactly how it'd all work |
| 04:21.48 | alec_ | zaerc, what are the advanced bootloaders? what can they do? |
| 04:22.15 | robbiethe1st | so you can *just* flash/reload over the 256mb partition, all your user data is fine(just need to reinstall app packages) and everything's fine. |
| 04:22.20 | robbiethe1st | BRB, guys, dinner. |
| 04:22.22 | eccerr0r | basically you install shell+libc on the microsd card, then you can mount your internal partitions and fix them |
| 04:22.32 | Zaerc | robbiethe1st: enjoy! |
| 04:22.57 | Zaerc | alec_: tbh it was quite a while when I messed with that |
| 04:23.22 | Zaerc | but the one on mine gives a menu if you boot with the keyboard open |
| 04:23.44 | Zaerc | I think it's called u-boot but I'm not sure |
| 04:24.14 | Zaerc | I just had the device and was trying just about everything I could find |
| 04:24.58 | Zaerc | maybe it came with kernel-power, or the other way around |
| 04:26.31 | Zaerc | and it was all new so I didn't want to mess with that too much... I think we all know how that usually ends ;) |
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| 04:27.55 | eccerr0r | sigh... still worried about breaking my n900 while doing proactive maintenance (i.e. microusb reinforcement)... |
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| 04:28.55 | Zaerc | just don't use bug connectors like adaptors |
| 04:29.11 | Zaerc | big, not bug :p |
| 04:29.33 | alec_ | ahh |
| 04:29.35 | alec_ | ok |
| 04:29.37 | alec_ | can i boot anything interesting with u-boot? |
| 04:29.42 | eccerr0r | eh... but I want to be able to use any microusb I want =\ |
| 04:30.09 | Zaerc | well it should be possible to put a whole different system on an SD-card I think |
| 04:30.26 | eccerr0r | put android on the sd-card? :D |
| 04:30.33 | alec_ | idly wonders if it's possible to craft a 'live distribution' to run on the n900 that can be loaded from the bootloader |
| 04:30.33 | Zaerc | haven't tried that yet though |
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| 04:31.02 | eccerr0r | that would be the thing to do, nitdroid on the microsd? |
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| 04:33.18 | Zaerc | see: https://elektranox.org/n900/installation/manual.html |
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| 04:34.14 | Zaerc | that's a regular debian booted from SD I think |
| 04:34.39 | eccerr0r | what *really* would be nice... boot off of host mode USB :) |
| 04:34.53 | eccerr0r | that theoretically should be possible too? |
| 04:35.29 | Zaerc | I still haven't gotten around to trying hostmode |
| 04:35.31 | alec_ | sweet |
| 04:35.59 | Zaerc | but you can always chroot I reckon |
| 04:36.34 | eccerr0r | I don't think I'd do root-on-host mode usb ever though... |
| 04:36.54 | eccerr0r | but it should be a possibility... |
| 04:37.04 | eccerr0r | I really need to even install power kernel on my n900 |
| 04:37.23 | Zaerc | I'm thinking about modding a powered USB hub just for hostmode |
| 04:37.59 | alec_ | erm |
| 04:38.28 | alec_ | 'you are about to flash a new kernel image into device NAND memory, but new version string of kernel image is not similar to old' |
| 04:39.37 | Zaerc | sounds scary, maybe someone more knowledgable can comment? |
| 04:39.56 | alec_ | i'm just going to make use of backupmenu... that should take care of it, right? |
| 04:40.24 | Zaerc | I wish I knew |
| 04:41.19 | alec_ | i hate how /etc/sudoers always gets overwritten |
| 04:41.25 | alec_ | seems to happen whenever i install stuff |
| 04:42.20 | Zaerc | that is annoying |
| 04:43.13 | Zaerc | I've just put my public ssh key under the root's account |
| 04:43.30 | Zaerc | so that I can ssh into the root account, without a password even |
| 04:43.39 | alec_ | clever |
| 04:44.05 | Zaerc | and then I can just "su - user" when needed |
| 04:44.20 | alec_ | yes |
| 04:44.26 | alec_ | i don't like being root |
| 04:44.31 | Zaerc | I don't even know the passwords |
| 04:44.34 | alec_ | i prefer sudo; i do less damage |
| 04:44.59 | Zaerc | I'm used to it, great learning experience ;) |
| 04:45.02 | alec_ | ahh... backing up OptFS with tar in backupmenu is indeed slow |
| 04:45.57 | eccerr0r | ah thanks for warning about /etc/sudoers... i think adding a file in /etc/sudoers.d maybe the solution to the overwriting... |
| 04:45.58 | alec_ | goes to the store for some tobacco |
| 04:46.09 | alec_ | good idea |
| 04:46.19 | Zaerc | nice workaround |
| 04:47.27 | eccerr0r | (and then run update-sudoers if you made your own file) |
| 04:47.50 | Zaerc | ah, that is good to know |
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| 04:57.31 | alec_ | you both just got your phones, eccerr0r and zaerc? |
| 04:58.20 | eccerr0r | me, just a bit over a month now I think |
| 04:59.09 | alec_ | ahh, i got mine 2 days ago from ebay; i had been waiting for 3 years for the price to go down |
| 04:59.25 | eccerr0r | but I'm a long time Linux/Unix user... only reason I had to buy one :D |
| 04:59.47 | alec_ | yep |
| 04:59.50 | eccerr0r | it was a replacement for my symbian 5230 phone that I broke |
| 04:59.54 | Zaerc | I got mine less then a year ago |
| 04:59.55 | alec_ | same here; i've been using gnu/linux for 10 years |
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| 04:59.59 | alec_ | ah |
| 05:00.31 | alec_ | any pet peeves about the phone so far, eccerr0r? |
| 05:00.46 | eccerr0r | hmm... my linux-10 was several years back... linux-20 is coming :D |
| 05:00.54 | alec_ | nice =) |
| 05:00.59 | eccerr0r | Battery life and how delicate the microusb port is |
| 05:01.11 | eccerr0r | that's the only two things I dislike about the phone. |
| 05:01.23 | eccerr0r | other than hildon being closed source |
| 05:01.32 | alec_ | yeah |
| 05:01.41 | alec_ | that's a huge pain IMO |
| 05:01.48 | alec_ | hildon itself is a pain |
| 05:02.03 | eccerr0r | it's not that bad, but bloaty |
| 05:02.28 | bef0rd | i thought hildon was opensourced |
| 05:02.35 | bef0rd | (the toolkit) |
| 05:02.46 | bef0rd | not hildon-home |
| 05:02.46 | eccerr0r | well, specifically the code needed for the phone dialer... |
| 05:03.27 | eccerr0r | though did someone finally reverse engineer that so you could make calls on n900-android? |
| 05:18.05 | alec_ | anything you really like about your n900 that you didn't expect to like, eccerr0r? |
| 05:19.26 | eccerr0r | it's about as I expected it to be when I decided to get one. |
| 05:19.49 | Zaerc | I'm thinking about getting a second one, just to mess around with |
| 05:20.25 | eccerr0r | tempted to do so too, just to figure out how to do the surgery and not have to worry about breaking this working one |
| 05:22.04 | alec_ | how much did you pay, zaerc and eccerr0r? |
| 05:22.16 | alec_ | i paid $195 for a new one |
| 05:22.33 | eccerr0r | cheapest off ebay... |
| 05:22.42 | alec_ | used or new? |
| 05:22.48 | Zaerc | last year, about 180 euros for a second hand one |
| 05:23.05 | Zaerc | now I see them going for about 75 euros |
| 05:23.35 | Zaerc | (mine was as good as new) |
| 05:23.36 | eccerr0r | they say to be wary about ones marked as "new" but I think the one I got is close enough, seems very close to "new" |
| 05:24.35 | eccerr0r | the charger however was obviously not new, obvious scratches, etc., but the n900 was pristine |
| 05:26.29 | Zaerc | wahey! my newly setup SDK works |
| 05:26.35 | alec_ | actually if it's from china or hong kong you can be sure it's new |
| 05:26.41 | alec_ | they hold on to new products for years there |
| 05:26.53 | alec_ | my last phone i bought while travelling in hong kong; it was 2-3 years old also |
| 05:26.54 | robbiethe1st | ...Or make a knock-off of it |
| 05:26.56 | Zaerc | time to update the wiki page a bit... |
| 05:27.15 | alec_ | yes, fake products are widespread in mainland china, but not hong kong |
| 05:27.33 | alec_ | hong kong is far more technologically advanced and economically stable than europe or the US =) |
| 05:27.46 | eccerr0r | but the charger obviously was not new :\ I can't tell if the phone is a fake or not but if it's fake, it's a very very good fake. I wonder if they faked the bad microusb too :D |
| 05:27.48 | alec_ | anyway, it's pretty easy to tell fake products when in china |
| 05:27.57 | alec_ | i lived there for a year and saw plenty |
| 05:28.00 | alec_ | they're just obviously fake |
| 05:28.44 | alec_ | fake ipods, etc |
| 05:28.47 | alec_ | they just look fake |
| 05:28.51 | alec_ | firmware is not ios, etc. |
| 05:28.59 | eccerr0r | heh |
| 05:29.16 | eccerr0r | but if this was a fake n900, it can run maemo apps directly still :D |
| 05:29.22 | alec_ | exactly |
| 05:29.22 | robbiethe1st | I've gotten several Nokia N900 chargers; the stamps/case/etc all identical. Guts, however... one had a lot of components, looked genuine, other was made with a handful(no PFC etc), obviously not Nokia |
| 05:29.41 | alec_ | interesting, robbiethe1st |
| 05:29.48 | alec_ | yes, that kind of fake stuff is very common in china |
| 05:29.56 | alec_ | fake ipod chargers, cables, etc |
| 05:30.06 | robbiethe1st | That being said... the cheap ones work perfectly well for the N900 |
| 05:30.07 | alec_ | but, really, that's where it's being manufactured... so... |
| 05:30.15 | eccerr0r | eh these small power supplies, I have yet to see one with PFC... then again I think European AC10s need to have PFC to be sold in the EU? |
| 05:30.17 | alec_ | exactly; they come from the same factory even probably |
| 05:30.21 | alec_ | just no name brand |
| 05:30.44 | alec_ | actually goes to the store for tobacco now |
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| 05:30.57 | eccerr0r | the worst small switching PSUs, the worst one I ever saw was a halfwave rectifier and no feedback |
| 05:31.00 | eccerr0r | *OUCH* |
| 05:31.21 | eccerr0r | but most of them are fullwave and have feedback loop... |
| 05:31.30 | robbiethe1st | That being said, my N950 can tell the difference. Two chargers: with charger A plugged in, the screen won't respond at all or very occasionally to touch |
| 05:31.38 | robbiethe1st | unplugged, or with B, works fine. |
| 05:31.53 | robbiethe1st | My brother has the same problem with his N9 |
| 05:32.34 | eccerr0r | currently I have an issue with my ac10c and two ca-101 cables - the ac10c only charges at 400mA, the CA101's charge at 300mA or so max... |
| 05:33.06 | eccerr0r | my ca-101d and this dollar tree microusb cable - both will charge my n900 really fast... but both of them are really hard to plug into the n900 |
| 05:33.07 | robbiethe1st | I'm not sure I'd really notice; I leave it plugged in over night |
| 05:33.23 | eccerr0r | thus I have to do the surgery so that I don't pull the microusb out with the plug :( |
| 05:33.36 | robbiethe1st | Yeah |
| 05:34.16 | eccerr0r | it would be nice to just carry around the ca101d |
| 05:34.21 | eccerr0r | that is really convenient... |
| 05:36.41 | eccerr0r | i was using battery-eye... the ac10c and the ca101 charging slope are nowhere near the ca101d and the $1 cable... but they're much easier to connect and extract, lessening the risk of damage. |
| 05:37.48 | eccerr0r | (ac10c: takes about 4 hours to charge from flat, ca-101 probably 8 hours. The tight ca101d and $1 cables will charge in 2 hours) |
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| 05:39.03 | robbiethe1st | What I did was custom-make myself a car charger - $3 switchmode buck converter set to 5v, USB port with middle pins soldered together, and a USB -> micro cable |
| 05:39.55 | robbiethe1st | Seems to work nicely |
| 05:40.34 | eccerr0r | i think it's probably the microusb ends |
| 05:40.48 | robbiethe1st | ? |
| 05:40.53 | eccerr0r | the loose ones don't charge as fast, might just be worn out |
| 05:41.14 | eccerr0r | the tight ones of course still depend on what they're plugged into - I was using my bench power supply to test |
| 05:41.17 | robbiethe1st | Perhaps; remember though that if the two middle pins aren't shorted, it won't charge at more than 400-500ma if ever |
| 05:41.59 | eccerr0r | (well, actually I was testing the two CA101s, CA101D and the $1 cable all with the same PSU |
| 05:42.17 | robbiethe1st | hm |
| 05:42.42 | eccerr0r | the AC10C was an estimate by looking at charging numbers. |
| 05:42.44 | robbiethe1st | are you sure the middle pins are shorted correctly? I don't quite know your setup? |
| 05:43.24 | eccerr0r | I have a female USB-A that I shorted D+/D- together, and power straight to the bench PSU. So all four cables are used exactly the same during the test |
| 05:43.28 | robbiethe1st | Because they have to be connected to each other (d+ to d-) and not connected to ground or power |
| 05:43.33 | robbiethe1st | ah |
| 05:44.45 | eccerr0r | the nice thing about the bench PSU is that I get the current reading so I don't have to depend on the bq24150 lying to me or not... |
| 05:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: (screen won't respond) yep, same here |
| 05:54.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: I strongly suggest you use onboard diagnostic means to check what's actually going on, rather than spreading nonsense about bq24150 allegedly lying |
| 05:56.21 | eccerr0r | You may know the hardware more than I do, I don't trust any hardware I'm not familiar with. |
| 05:56.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, we learned about that during err 2 weeks now |
| 05:58.13 | eccerr0r | It's like trusting google doing what they say they're going to do with their data, and do something behind our backs. I'm not going to trust it until I can compare it real numbers |
| 05:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just not very enlightening to hear you perpetuating same stuff over and over again, not checking the relevant parameters like voltage *at N900 USB* and then stating bq24150 would lie |
| 05:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tbh your approach to claim that hw lies until you tested it shows more about your testing skills than about hw |
| 05:59.30 | eccerr0r | I cannot measure the voltage at the N900 USB, and there apparently is no software that will do it, I don't see bq27200.sh writing it, I don't see charge21.sh writing it... |
| 06:00.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see you bothering to learn about it |
| 06:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so please stop spreading nonsense as facts here |
| 06:00.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq24150 is NOT lying |
| 06:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we explained to you several times in loving verbosity here what info you can acquire in which way onboard of N900, D+- short detection being just one of them |
| 06:02.37 | eccerr0r | There's no way for me to know until all the external issues are removed. If the voltage the bq24150 sees on vbus was displayed prominently with available software then that would have cleared up the problem very quickly. |
| 06:03.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if pigs had wings |
| 06:03.27 | eccerr0r | how would I know that they don't? |
| 06:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yawns and wanders off |
| 06:04.21 | robbiethe1st | Well, do you smell pig sh*t from your roof? |
| 06:05.10 | eccerr0r | they may have wings but it does not imply they can fly either. |
| 06:06.48 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.32) |
| 06:06.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if N900 had a plutonium battery you wouldn't need to worry about charging |
| 06:07.32 | eccerr0r | I have to treat the unit as a black box. I don't know why people have such a problem with it especially because I don't even know if I had a "good" unit. Suppose there was a 10 ohm resistor on vbus in my particular unit... would be strange but there's no way for me to know |
| 06:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, your contributions are not exactly helpful, and your refusal to learn anything about N900 hw is outright annoying |
| 06:08.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOOK AT THE SCHEMATICS DUDE! |
| 06:09.18 | robbiethe1st | There's fully detailed schematics available |
| 06:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you repeat another 10 times "no way for me to know2 it won't be any less false, but it will qualify you for my ignore list, or worse |
| 06:09.35 | robbiethe1st | along with diagrams showing every single pin on each chip etc |
| 06:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is a extremely simple path to probe for parasitary resistance on both USB VBUS and USB GND |
| 06:10.56 | eccerr0r | Is the expectation for everyone to open their unit to verify that the circuit is indeed intact and in good shape? That would have had to be the next step to verify the voltage on vbus. |
| 06:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | by using an ohm-meter and the open end of usb cable and test points under battery |
| 06:12.11 | alec_ | knows nothing about electrical engineering |
| 06:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, you can even probe the VBUS voltage between the pads under battery, thoug that is admittedly a tad clumsy since battery should be inserted for charging |
| 06:13.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are datasheets for bq24150 and bq27200 available |
| 06:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and now pretty please stop telling us N900 is a blackbox |
| 06:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't stand it anymore |
| 06:16.57 | eccerr0r | finally finding the service manuals was probably the single most valuable documentation to have... though I'd have to thank google for those... |
| 06:17.23 | eccerr0r | too many bad links around. :( |
| 06:17.35 | robbiethe1st | All pray to the all-knowing and all-powerful google! |
| 06:17.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | omg |
| 06:17.54 | eccerr0r | knowing they existed was the first thing :\ |
| 06:18.10 | eccerr0r | most service manuals are like top secret... |
| 06:18.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and your googling hasn't shown any pages with an url starting like wiki.maemo.org/... UH? |
| 06:18.51 | eccerr0r | no, I ended up finding them on some other website actually |
| 06:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and your sarcasm detector is also defunct |
| 06:19.23 | eccerr0r | ton of bad links to rapidshare or something which w.m.o pointed to |
| 06:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | pssst... you could have +asked* here ;-P |
| 06:20.20 | eccerr0r | well now you tell me =p |
| 06:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know of a server maemo.cloud-7.de |
| 06:21.34 | eccerr0r | need to fix all the links, that rapidshare link was annoying |
| 06:21.46 | eccerr0r | saw many many links to that server which was dead. |
| 06:22.01 | eccerr0r | well, not dead but deleted |
| 06:22.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | which has a hidden directory docs |
| 06:23.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and guess what you could find there |
| 06:24.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see stuff like Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf |
| 06:24.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0.pdf |
| 06:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900_RX-51_SM_L3_4.pdf |
| 06:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq24150.pdf |
| 06:25.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | RE-BOM.txt |
| 06:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | SMIA95_AF_camera module_APL_090511.doc |
| 06:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | TWL4030-datasheet__tps65950.pdf |
| 06:26.13 | alec_ | arrgh |
| 06:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | TWL4030__TPS65950 OMAPâ„¢ Power Management and System Companion Device ES 1.0 TRM (Rev. D)__swcu050d.pdf |
| 06:26.25 | eccerr0r | time to swipe a copy of everything there I guess... then the next thing is if there was the board layout gerber... |
| 06:26.28 | alec_ | what's the password for the maemo sdk vm? |
| 06:26.36 | eccerr0r | 'maemo'? |
| 06:26.53 | alec_ | nop |
| 06:26.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | rootme? |
| 06:27.17 | alec_ | nop |
| 06:27.31 | alec_ | i literally don't have enough ram to open a browser tab with it running... |
| 06:27.31 | eccerr0r | I just logged in as maemo/maemo and sudo drops to root w/o pwd |
| 06:27.33 | alec_ | will use lynx |
| 06:27.38 | alec_ | weird |
| 06:28.19 | alec_ | ahh |
| 06:28.22 | alec_ | i know why |
| 06:28.29 | alec_ | yep |
| 06:28.35 | alec_ | it's because i type in dvorak |
| 06:28.43 | alec_ | and the vm is using qwerty |
| 06:28.52 | eccerr0r | ha |
| 06:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | bwahaha |
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| 06:40.13 | alec_ | my machine is too slow to run this vm |
| 06:40.27 | eccerr0r | using vmware? qemu? vbox? |
| 06:40.36 | eccerr0r | qemu without kvm = unusable I've found... |
| 06:41.06 | eccerr0r | I'm currently using qemu+kvm on x86_64, it's fast enough... |
| 06:41.27 | eccerr0r | even with kvm, qemu is probably the slowest |
| 06:41.57 | alec_ | virtualbox |
| 06:42.24 | eccerr0r | what's the hypervising machine? |
| 06:43.10 | eccerr0r | I did not try vbox but qemu with kvm is still a huge penalty. Without kvm it was unusable (like 1/10 or 1/20th the speed of native) |
| 06:43.13 | alec_ | i allocated less ram, seems to do the trick |
| 06:43.25 | alec_ | not sure what hypervising machine is |
| 06:43.26 | eccerr0r | ah it was swapping... |
| 06:43.30 | alec_ | yeah |
| 06:43.44 | eccerr0r | or rather the hypervisor was swapping... |
| 06:44.08 | alec_ | ok |
| 06:44.09 | eccerr0r | I was running with kvm with 128MB VM memory. the VM was swapping and I couldn't tell...it was running like a dog tooo |
| 06:44.44 | eccerr0r | 512M seems to work ok, not sure what's the recommended vm size |
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| 08:13.08 | kerio | kvm is fast |
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| 08:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | only thing that sucks in my KVM is the graca-emu |
| 08:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | mouse jerky |
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| 08:44.15 | alec__ | ok |
| 08:44.23 | alec__ | i'm in scratchbox on the sdk vm |
| 08:44.29 | alec__ | i'm asked to set up a target |
| 08:44.38 | alec__ | i want the target to be armel |
| 08:44.45 | alec__ | but there's two different options |
| 08:44.53 | alec__ | er, three |
| 08:45.25 | alec__ | cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 |
| 08:45.29 | alec__ | cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 |
| 08:45.34 | alec__ | and host-gcc |
| 08:45.39 | alec__ | i guess the first one is the one i want? |
| 08:45.44 | alec__ | why does it even give me a choice? |
| 08:46.05 | alec__ | i mean, i already chose armel |
| 08:46.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can build for running the stuff inside scatchbox |
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| 08:46.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool wirtual N900 |
| 08:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | virtual* |
| 08:47.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas no cellular modem ;-) |
| 08:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | for that purpose you want target x86 |
| 08:47.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | i486 rather |
| 08:48.09 | alec__ | yeah |
| 08:48.13 | alec__ | i want to build for my phone |
| 08:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw seems you should update |
| 08:48.45 | alec__ | ok |
| 08:48.50 | alec__ | update sandbox? |
| 08:48.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2007 feels a tad aged |
| 08:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | scratchbox, yeah |
| 08:49.24 | alec__ | ah |
| 08:49.27 | alec__ | scratchbox is python |
| 08:49.30 | alec__ | who would have known... |
| 08:49.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the maemo stuff inside scratchbox |
| 08:49.34 | alec__ | yes |
| 08:49.36 | alec__ | ok |
| 08:49.38 | alec__ | hmm |
| 08:49.43 | alec__ | well, scratchbox website is dead... |
| 08:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if we already have something on skeiron |
| 08:51.51 | thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: skeiron.org/scratchbox |
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| 09:26.37 | alec__ | i see |
| 09:26.51 | alec__ | well, that link has x86_64 packages, thedead1440 |
| 09:27.03 | alec__ | so probably easiest to just do it on my machine, and not vm, right? |
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| 10:09.34 | kerio | alec__: scratchbox is a pain in the ass |
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| 10:32.11 | wirr | freemangordon, ping |
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| 10:43.11 | wirr | ShadowJK, freemangordon, I remember you testing some sd card with very interesting random write performance in january or so. unfortunately I couldn't find it on irc logs. what card was that? |
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| 10:45.17 | ShadowJK | freemangordon uses samsung microsdhc pro 64g |
| 10:45.36 | ShadowJK | I benchmarked a a-data ultra high speed 16g card |
| 10:46.01 | ShadowJK | Also, sandisk extreme pro microsdhc isn't too bad |
| 10:46.20 | ShadowJK | currently benchmarking a samsung microsdhc pro 32g |
| 10:46.43 | wirr | do we have an overview in wiki or something? |
| 10:48.22 | ShadowJK | not really |
| 10:49.00 | wirr | which one would you personnally recommend? the a-data? |
| 10:49.03 | ShadowJK | The more i test stuff the more I become convinced the available methods aren't suited for the task :) |
| 10:49.36 | ShadowJK | I'm not sure.. haven't tried it in N900.. using the sandisk there |
| 10:50.55 | wirr | Isn't it that vendors just are "cheating" their way through? moving out logic into filesystems (like wear-levelling and stuff) and giving us plain simple storage chips would make life easier |
| 10:51.18 | ShadowJK | ya |
| 10:52.13 | ShadowJK | Although, f2fs looks interesting, though you need to profile your card first for best results, and only the good cards will run nicely on f2fs |
| 10:52.30 | wirr | i'll have a look at that |
| 10:52.37 | ShadowJK | (where "nicely" is in a totally different ballpark than ext3/ext4/btrfs) |
| 10:54.51 | ShadowJK | Also, the physical structure of flash these days is becoming a major headache |
| 10:55.20 | wirr | you're talking about the raid-like clustering of the chips? |
| 10:55.36 | ShadowJK | these days you no longer hope for SLC flash, you hope for MLC.. most is TLC though |
| 10:56.24 | ShadowJK | so you have a block size of 12M and smallest writable unit of 36k or similarily fruity sizes |
| 10:56.38 | ShadowJK | that dont fit well with how operating systems work :) |
| 10:57.02 | kerio | i thought SLC was better |
| 10:57.25 | alec__ | kerio; i can feel it already. how often do you use it? is there anything better? |
| 10:57.43 | kerio | alec__: i just use the ubuntu vm |
| 10:57.47 | alec__ | ok |
| 10:58.05 | alec__ | aren't the compilers pretty out of date on the ubuntu vm, kerio? |
| 10:58.43 | kerio | there's freemangordon's gcc4.7-linaro setup |
| 10:59.04 | ShadowJK | kerio; yeah of course, i just mean nobody uses it anymore |
| 10:59.16 | ShadowJK | mlc is the new slc, and tlc is the new mlc ;) |
| 10:59.28 | alec__ | ah, where can i get that setup? |
| 10:59.35 | alec__ | is that also a vm? |
| 10:59.54 | kerio | alec__: there's instructions on wiki, they assume you already have the standard scratchbox setup |
| 11:00.25 | kerio | ShadowJK: the problem with SDs is that the controller is *not* good enough to present a perfect block device with good performance |
| 11:01.16 | ShadowJK | Also it's getting increasingly difficult to even theoretically transform the flash into good block device |
| 11:01.35 | kerio | if only there was some kind of "raw" mode where you can access the underlying flash as a mtd... |
| 11:02.23 | kerio | ShadowJK: ssds have good controllers |
| 11:02.30 | ShadowJK | SSDs have an advantage in that they can store power, and keep a ram buffer to deal with OS's power-of-two transfers and the flash's power-of-three struxture |
| 11:02.53 | kerio | also an advantage in space |
| 11:03.23 | kerio | and i mean physical space for the circuitry |
| 11:03.34 | ShadowJK | right |
| 11:08.00 | wirr | ShadowJK, can you tell me something about reader limitations? I've just built an sd storage device based on an old iaudio mp3 player using an sd card zif board. are max. supported sd card sizes depending on reader controller? |
| 11:08.39 | SpeedEvil | generally no |
| 11:08.43 | ShadowJK | if it does 4g cards it will do 64g, I'd think? |
| 11:08.52 | wirr | that's what i'd assume |
| 11:08.57 | SpeedEvil | almost all SD card controllers are 'software, |
| 11:09.14 | ShadowJK | i've got a few usb card readers that don't do sdhc |
| 11:09.16 | SpeedEvil | think of them more like network cards that talk to the SD |
| 11:09.40 | SpeedEvil | this is ones built into microcontrollers or processors |
| 11:10.05 | SpeedEvil | handling large capacities can generally be done with a software upgrade |
| 11:10.46 | SpeedEvil | if it's got an embedded micro that handles the filesystem, this differs |
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| 11:17.13 | freemangordon | kerio: actually it's zeq's setup ;) |
| 11:17.24 | freemangordon | gcc4.7 linaro ;) |
| 11:17.40 | Macer | just put my lumia 900 up for sale on ebay |
| 11:17.45 | kerio | k |
| 11:17.48 | Macer | hope someone buys it for $250 |
| 11:18.01 | Macer | that would really make my week :) |
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| 11:38.58 | ShadowJK | man, it's pretty disturbing how even when using swap on uSD, fennec makes optfs 50% busy |
| 11:40.05 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: wait for qwazix to be ready with embedlite UI and use it instead of fennec |
| 11:40.37 | freemangordon | or disable disk cache |
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| 11:41.26 | zeq1 | I really need to update those toolchains... |
| 11:41.30 | ShadowJK | My first suspect would've been history db actually, heh |
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| 11:43.05 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: open about:config, disable disk cache and make memory cache 20-40MB |
| 11:43.18 | zeq1 | My laptop died a few weeks back, I should be getting a new faster one on Monday, should make it a little easier to get things done. |
| 11:43.55 | freemangordon | zeq1: I tried to build newer gcc for SB, almost succesfuly :) |
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| 11:44.48 | zeq1 | freemangordon: did you automate it? |
| 11:44.54 | freemangordon | linker (in SB) was spitting some errors, I guess I 've messed something in binutils build |
| 11:44.56 | zeq1 | proper sb integration? |
| 11:44.57 | freemangordon | zeq1: no |
| 11:45.27 | freemangordon | I lack the knowledge/time and will to do it :) |
| 11:45.45 | freemangordon | s///,/ |
| 11:46.00 | zeq1 | yeah, it's not a straightforward as it should be |
| 11:46.34 | zeq1 | some strange quirks in the various toolchain build systems |
| 11:47.17 | zeq1 | My new laptop should make it pretty quick to build :) |
| 11:47.34 | freemangordon | zeq1: btw are you aware of anything in newer 4.7 versions that makes the exercise worth? |
| 11:47.48 | zeq1 | i7-3840QM 8GiB |
| 11:47.57 | freemangordon | nice :) |
| 11:48.10 | zeq1 | lots of bug fixes, there's also 4.8 coming up |
| 11:49.07 | freemangordon | zeq1: well, sure there are bug fixes, but is there anything besides that? improved vectorizer or something? |
| 11:49.17 | zeq1 | 4.8 is a bit of another jump, but ther's been lots of ARM improvments |
| 11:49.36 | freemangordon | I looked at the change logs some time ago and see nothing interesting |
| 11:49.50 | zeq1 | I'll have to look a the changelog/list archives |
| 11:50.18 | zeq1 | I've not been following developments as I usually do |
| 11:50.29 | zeq1 | been taking a break |
| 11:50.52 | zeq1 | I took too many things on at once |
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| 11:51.45 | freemangordon | Pali: ping |
| 11:51.56 | Pali | freemangordon: pong |
| 11:52.14 | freemangordon | Pali: this is going political, what now? (errata patch) |
| 11:53.06 | Pali | just write what you know |
| 11:53.42 | freemangordon | Pali: sure I will. But I bet the guy with the last mail is ex-nokian ;) |
| 11:53.54 | Pali | yes, you are right |
| 11:54.06 | Pali | he alredy contributed to 0xFFFF :-) |
| 11:54.10 | freemangordon | hehe |
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| 11:54.52 | freemangordon | Pali: ok, I'll write an answer when I am woken up enough |
| 11:55.00 | Pali | ok |
| 11:56.21 | ShadowJK | heh yeh, disabled disk cache and still 50% busy on optfs :) |
| 11:56.39 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: I guess you need to delete it by hand |
| 11:56.48 | freemangordon | disk cache that is |
| 11:57.16 | freemangordon | it is in /home/user/mozilla/fennec/(something_CACHE) |
| 11:57.24 | freemangordon | *.mozilla |
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| 11:58.06 | freemangordon | zeq1: what I see in newer gccs is focus on ARM64 |
| 11:58.23 | freemangordon | unless I am reading the changelog wrong |
| 11:58.33 | freemangordon | *wrongly |
| 11:59.05 | zeq1 | there's been a *lot* of ARM64 commits because it's the new arch |
| 11:59.08 | freemangordon | I see nothing of benefit for n900 |
| 12:00.37 | zeq1 | I understand that there's been significant improvements to code generation for other recent ARM cores, although admittedly that's from reading Phoronix ;) |
| 12:01.34 | freemangordon | well, I don't see a way cortex-a8 to fall in the "other rercent" category :D |
| 12:01.41 | freemangordon | *recent |
| 12:02.12 | zeq1 | that's what benchmarks are for :P |
| 12:02.22 | freemangordon | heh |
| 12:02.40 | ShadowJK | heh, cache dir not changing at all, still high ioload :) |
| 12:02.42 | zeq1 | It'll be a good way to test my new laptop :) |
| 12:02.56 | wirr | freemangordon, what was the card you've been testing lately with exceptionally good random write times? |
| 12:03.23 | freemangordon | samsung pro 64GB IIRC |
| 12:04.38 | wirr | thx |
| 12:04.55 | freemangordon | lemme try to find it over the inet |
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| 12:05.43 | freemangordon | wirr: http://i.imgur.com/xixiil.jpg |
| 12:06.14 | freemangordon | wirr: keep in mind it is not exactly cheap :D:D:D |
| 12:07.01 | freemangordon | I bought mine for ~80 euros |
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| 12:11.12 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: well, I am out of ideas then :(. It could be something with sqlite commits, but that needs code change to disable disk flushes |
| 12:11.50 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: which fennec is that? |
| 12:12.27 | ShadowJK | -thumb, I hope :) |
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| 12:13.01 | ShadowJK | 17.0a1-maemo-thumb0 |
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| 12:14.00 | freemangordon | ShadowJK: did you try to remove the whole fennec directory? how big is your "places" DB? |
| 12:14.54 | ShadowJK | 1.1M |
| 12:15.45 | freemangordon | no idea then :) |
| 12:16.06 | ShadowJK | blames sqlite |
| 12:21.05 | ShadowJK | weird, there's significant load still after moving .mozilla/fennec away (and symlinking) |
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| 13:02.27 | wirr | freemangordon, thanks for the link |
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| 13:24.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2*2TB ordered |
| 13:25.22 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: great! |
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| 14:30.15 | Omplog | hi |
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| 14:38.16 | kerio | hi! |
| 14:38.18 | kerio | and bye! |
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| 18:23.05 | XATRIX | Hi guys, i tried to reflash my device some time ago, and did change something in my drivers... libusb or what it was... Now when i connect my 900 to my PC it tells me my handset is connected to PC in a wrong mode |
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| 18:26.37 | Zaerc | have you tried reinstalling the packages you messed with? |
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| 18:39.57 | XATRIX | The problem i've faced - i forgot the drivers i changed :) |
| 18:40.16 | XATRIX | What do i have to change in USB drivers to be able to flash device ? |
| 18:40.23 | XATRIX | Any non-standard libusb ? |
| 18:40.30 | XATRIX | Or mobile phone drivers ? |
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| 18:43.39 | Zaerc | I have no idea tbh, I've never been up that creek without a paddle |
| 18:46.04 | Zaerc | can you still login over wifi? |
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| 18:47.38 | XATRIX | Zaerc: To the headset ? Yea |
| 18:47.59 | XATRIX | It's fully working, but i can't use PCSuite for sync |
| 18:49.48 | Zaerc | and you can't reflash? |
| 18:56.01 | XATRIX | I hope i can... But i want to sync my data before :) |
| 18:56.11 | XATRIX | I have some new contacts in |
| 18:56.19 | XATRIX | And i'd like to save em to my PC before |
| 18:56.39 | Zaerc | maybe export them and copy the file over with scp? |
| 18:56.59 | XATRIX | Hm... How can i export ? |
| 18:57.21 | Zaerc | somwhere in the UI I think |
| 18:57.27 | XATRIX | :( |
| 18:57.36 | Pali | create backup |
| 18:57.46 | Pali | and then copy backup file |
| 18:58.32 | XATRIX | Also , i did install many applications, any idea how can i extract the list of ? |
| 18:58.54 | Pali | dpkg -l |
| 18:59.11 | Zaerc | that would have been my suggestion too |
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| 18:59.40 | Pali | dpkg --get-selections |
| 19:00.12 | Pali | this will print packages in better parseable format |
| 19:01.03 | XATRIX | ok |
| 19:01.05 | XATRIX | let me handle it |
| 19:08.22 | Pali | also backup via backup application can backup and restore all intalled applications |
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| 19:15.17 | XATRIX | I found that all of my manually installed apps, are in /home/opt |
| 19:16.22 | XATRIX | The trouble is that i installed some apps from testing,devel repos |
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| 19:19.23 | kerio | so... apple's Lightning digital AV adapter has the same amount of ram as the n900 |
| 19:21.56 | kerio | let me repeat that |
| 19:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: I guess your problem is with PCsuite-mode vs mass-storage-mode. |
| 19:22.09 | kerio | the adapter to connect the iphone 5 to a tv has the same amount of ram the n900 has |
| 19:22.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what. kerio? |
| 19:22.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ram is cheap today |
| 19:22.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we're in the future |
| 19:23.06 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05, hm... but.. I choose PC-Suite mode while it pops up a dialog |
| 19:23.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it's quite strange why you got those problems. Maybe the culprit is your PC? |
| 19:24.18 | XATRIX | nope |
| 19:24.36 | XATRIX | i remember i couldn't connect handset in proper mode, before the last reflash |
| 19:25.05 | XATRIX | somewhere i found docs, they advised me to download some extra usb drivers for win7 and after , i was able to flash it |
| 19:25.25 | XATRIX | my maemo-flasher was unable to reflash it before i changed drivers |
| 19:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly. USB drivers for *WIN7* |
| 19:26.10 | kerio | flashing on windows is a crapshoot, aiui |
| 19:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no windows here. But it's a generally known problem also for linux that PCsuite with cdc_phonet driver conflicts with flashing |
| 19:27.35 | XATRIX | why it is no windows here ? |
| 19:27.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so probably whatever you did to make flashing under windows work might also have killed PCsuite mode en passant |
| 19:27.52 | XATRIX | i'm using linux everyday, but never flash something with linux |
| 19:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | why no windows here??? because I didn't feel like wasting money and/or time for such a crap. My PC is happy without any windows running on it. Me as well |
| 19:30.34 | kerio | i've got plenty of windows open right now |
| 19:30.36 | kerio | irc |
| 19:30.37 | kerio | two terminals |
| 19:30.39 | kerio | two IM |
| 19:30.44 | kerio | and firefox |
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| 19:31.32 | XATRIX | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.41 | kerio | cool story bro |
| 19:31.43 | XATRIX | And who said i paid it ? :) |
| 19:32.06 | kerio | did you just admit to what is at the very least a civil liability on a public channel |
| 19:32.13 | Skry | you take pride on stealing? ;| |
| 19:32.14 | kerio | with public logs |
| 19:33.38 | XATRIX | Em...sorry i didn't get it. My english is not so good ? What do you mean ? |
| 19:33.43 | eccerr0r | I paid the M$ tax on my notebooks. |
| 19:34.06 | Zaerc | ummm... stealing isn't the same as not paying a license fee |
| 19:34.23 | eccerr0r | he might have got it "free" when buying a computer? |
| 19:34.26 | Zaerc | there is a subtle difference |
| 19:34.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, 30min and wikiwide didn't thank yet on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1326428#post1326428 - I'm worried ;-D |
| 19:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I can't agree with Zaerc |
| 19:35.10 | kerio | i'll thank you! |
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| 19:36.05 | Zaerc | stealing is the taking of a physical object |
| 19:36.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a sw-developer I think there's absolutely no difference between stealing and running a cracked or not properly licenced software |
| 19:36.20 | Zaerc | making a copy and not paying for it is something else |
| 19:36.47 | Zaerc | your opinion has no weight in the matter |
| 19:36.52 | kerio | yeah, stealing and copying a number is different |
| 19:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe in your language and jurisdiction |
| 19:37.09 | Zaerc | it's the same in english |
| 19:37.11 | kerio | stealing is unlawful acquisition of *material goods* |
| 19:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | where I live it's both the pretty same § in laws and same crime |
| 19:37.52 | Zaerc | that's completely irrelevant |
| 19:37.54 | eccerr0r | When making fake copies of money, is that stealing or counterfeiting? |
| 19:38.10 | Zaerc | copying and stealing are two different things |
| 19:38.39 | kerio | eccerr0r: the problem when counterfeiting money isn't the copyright violation |
| 19:39.05 | Zaerc | and yeah the law differentiates between taking a picture of a painting, and stealing that painting |
| 19:39.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: maybe in your language. Here we also call it stealing when somebody is breaking into an office and taking photographs of a secret data |
| 19:39.17 | kerio | that's spionage |
| 19:39.17 | eccerr0r | there is sort of a law against copying money too... |
| 19:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can even steal ideas here |
| 19:39.38 | kerio | and... hm, is the act of taking photographs illegal, or is it the breaking&entering that's illegal there? |
| 19:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | spionge == the act of stealing secret information |
| 19:40.13 | kerio | no, it's the act of acquiring secret information |
| 19:40.17 | kerio | you can't steal information, remember |
| 19:40.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I don't give a shit |
| 19:40.52 | Zaerc | well I suppose you could if you'd remove the physical medium |
| 19:40.55 | kerio | if i give you my apple and you give me your apple we both only have an apple, but if i tell you my idea and you tell me your idea we both have two ideas |
| 19:41.08 | kerio | except if the idea was DocScrutinizer05's, in which case he doesn't have that idea anymore because you stole it |
| 19:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither XATRIX not Zaerc comments are much appreciated |
| 19:41.09 | eccerr0r | too much gray area here. |
| 19:41.21 | kerio | for some reason |
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| 19:42.01 | XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: What ? I didn't say a word here for now |
| 19:42.04 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: by you maybe |
| 19:42.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and again, maybe in your language |
| 19:42.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Zaerc: no, by freenode |
| 19:42.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'm sorry, but if german can't distinguish between the act of stealing a physical object and the act of unlawfully copying information, then it's a crappy language |
| 19:42.44 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: says who? |
| 19:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure by maemo |
| 19:43.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what. Yours sounds idiotic |
| 19:43.23 | Zaerc | Zaerc: so now you're the ruler of both freenode and maemo? |
| 19:43.36 | kerio | kerio: stop talking to yourself! |
| 19:44.06 | kerio | Zaerc: fwiw freenode policy is fairly clear on this |
| 19:44.39 | Zaerc | that you can't discuss the difference between stealing and copying? |
| 19:44.48 | kerio | no, that's allowed |
| 19:45.01 | Zaerc | then how am I violating policy? |
| 19:45.25 | kerio | i think that encouraging illegal behaviour is against freenode policy |
| 19:45.35 | kerio | ...although i'm not entirely sure about that |
| 19:45.54 | Zaerc | so now suddenly I'm encouraging illegal behavior? |
| 19:46.17 | *** join/#maemo zeq (~s_j_newbu@31.123.175.25) |
| 19:46.31 | Zaerc | because I don't agree with the moronic copying==stealing mantra? |
| 19:47.10 | eccerr0r | copying=illegal, stealing is illegal, therefore copying=stealing. |
| 19:47.40 | Zaerc | if copying were illegal, everyone in the open-source movement would be a criminal |
| 19:47.46 | eccerr0r | I don't know what point I was trying to make there actually |
| 19:48.01 | kerio | eccerr0r: your lack of understanding of logic, maybe :P |
| 19:48.31 | Zaerc | violating copyrights is not the same as copying |
| 19:48.55 | kerio | Zaerc: pretty much everyone agrees with you, it's just a boring conversation |
| 19:49.11 | Zaerc | I agree |
| 19:49.33 | Zaerc | I'm just appaled at the narrowmindedness displayed here |
| 19:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | google for "Datendiebstahl" |
| 19:51.15 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 19:51.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | German laws don't really consider unlawful copying any different than taking away physical goods |
| 19:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither does German language, based on jurisdiction. Since it's diebstahl it's called diebstahl |
| 19:53.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | In our jurisdiction you don't need to remove something physical from a victim's property to do an act of stealing |
| 19:54.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | as already mentioned we know the semantic concept of "stealing ideas" here since long |
| 19:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | this doesn't imply we would all think the victim lost the idea and can't remember anymore |
| 19:55.53 | kerio | yeah, the whole concept of stealing ideas is fucked up |
| 19:57.41 | teotwaki | what the fuck has everyone been smoking these days |
| 19:58.37 | Zaerc | Diebostahl der; -(e)s, Diebost?hole; das verbotene Nehmen (Stehlen) von Dingen, die anderen geh?ren <einen Diebstahl begehen; jemanden wegen Diebstahls anzeigen, verurteilen> |
| 19:58.49 | Zaerc | according to http://de.thefreedictionary.com/diebstahl |
| 19:59.17 | Zaerc | so you may want to get in touch with the people making dictionaries |
| 19:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no i won't |
| 19:59.59 | teotwaki | "the forbidden act of taking things" |
| 19:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you may want to get in touch with reality and follow my suggestion to google for Datendiebstahl |
| 20:00.03 | teotwaki | Seems pretty clear to me. |
| 20:00.57 | teotwaki | But then again, Diebstahl also means robbery and whatnot, no? Same as in Dutch, diefstal. |
| 20:01.02 | kerio | teotwaki: both "taking" and "things" is a bit ambiguous, when talking about digital things |
| 20:01.10 | kerio | s/is/are/ |
| 20:01.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: indeed, taking possession of something only implies that the object had to remove on ots original location when *you* imply that |
| 20:01.18 | *** join/#maemo em (~em@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 20:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no, it's not |
| 20:02.08 | Zaerc | the reality is that copying and stealing are two different concepts |
| 20:02.09 | teotwaki | well, I'm with kerio on this one: Copying a file doesn't make you lose your copy. |
| 20:02.10 | kerio | it's a fscking number, you can't steal a number |
| 20:02.33 | teotwaki | Basically, stealing means you prevent someone from enjoying their ownership. That doesn't happen with digital files. |
| 20:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Zaerc: nobody talked about copying |
| 20:02.51 | Zaerc | if you can't see that because you're blinded by language and legislation... |
| 20:03.02 | teotwaki | kerio: send me your /etc/hosts file. Are you now unable to ping localhost? |
| 20:03.04 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: that's all I've been talking about |
| 20:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: how's that relevant |
| 20:03.52 | teotwaki | Well, people who say copying files is illegal should realise they do so all the time. |
| 20:04.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | as quoted above in german language the definition of stealing is "illegal taking of possession of something" |
| 20:04.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOT "removing something somewhere illegaly" |
| 20:04.33 | teotwaki | actually, no |
| 20:04.36 | Zaerc | the german law is not the highest authority here |
| 20:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me it is |
| 20:05.04 | Zaerc | and that's obviosly your problem |
| 20:05.06 | teotwaki | it clearly says, in the thingie above: "illegally taking something" |
| 20:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't care about your highest authority since we never discussed that |
| 20:05.33 | Zaerc | we're talking concept, not legislation |
| 20:05.59 | teotwaki | The way I interpret "taking" is "stripping ownership away from the previous owner". |
| 20:06.10 | teotwaki | It has nothing to do with me *taking* ownership. |
| 20:06.22 | teotwaki | It's about what you deny the person who used to own it. |
| 20:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can use the Holy Bible or Manson for your highest authority, we however discussed German law and more originally why it's deprecated to encourage stealing sowftware here in this channel |
| 20:06.50 | Zaerc | no, your discussing german law |
| 20:06.58 | teotwaki | Except that again, with digital files, you don't deny anyone using said file. |
| 20:07.09 | teotwaki | ie: They didn't lose ownership. |
| 20:07.09 | Zaerc | we were discussing wether copying and stealing are the same |
| 20:07.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's irrelevant |
| 20:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | YOU discussed that |
| 20:07.47 | Zaerc | that's how the discussion got started |
| 20:07.57 | Zaerc | the only one interested in german law is you |
| 20:08.08 | teotwaki | Zaerc: you're not helping. |
| 20:08.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the discussion started like [2013-03-02 20:32:06] <kerio> did you just admit to what is at the very least a civil liability on a public channel |
| 20:08.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-02 20:32:14] <Skry> you take pride on stealing? ;| |
| 20:09.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and more originally with [2013-03-02 20:31:43] <XATRIX> And who said i paid it ? :) |
| 20:09.22 | Zaerc | indeed, I objected to the word stealing |
| 20:09.33 | Zaerc | nobody mentioned german law |
| 20:10.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, you're so extremely boring me with your sophism |
| 20:10.44 | Zaerc | lol |
| 20:10.49 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: then play with me, unless you find me boring as well? |
| 20:11.47 | teotwaki | kerio: come out and play. |
| 20:12.41 | kerio | but we agree on everything :( |
| 20:12.51 | teotwaki | us two? |
| 20:12.56 | teotwaki | or everyone in the channel? |
| 20:13.00 | kerio | us two |
| 20:13.09 | teotwaki | I can play the devil's advocate, I don't care. |
| 20:13.14 | teotwaki | Here, I'll take my mom's position. |
| 20:13.18 | kerio | >sophism |
| 20:13.20 | teotwaki | (that sounds wrong) |
| 20:13.44 | Zaerc | you can always disagree on agreeing about everything, just for the sake of it ;) |
| 20:13.59 | kerio | as an old sage once said, "meh, you're so extremely boring me with your sophism" |
| 20:14.51 | Skry | lol? |
| 20:15.17 | teotwaki | "I make 10-20k a year from royalties, yet I refuse to pay for adobe lightroom. People who steal my music should be sued. I sued a school that performed a concert of mine, but didn't pay royalties. Help. There's a virus on my mac. l1ghtr00m.h4x with a skull on it on my desktop? That's nothing." |
| 20:17.53 | teotwaki | Or a pretty big role model to me: "Piracy is bad. You may want that nice Ferrari, but you wouldn't just go out and steal it, would you? Just because you can't afford it isn't an excuse to steal a CD. Yeah, there's my stack of music edition software, go ahead and load it up on your mac." |
| 20:19.11 | teotwaki | Oh fuck it, I can't defend those positions. They're moronic and outdated. Who the fuck am I kidding. I develop software for a living, and I refuse to use the word piracy. |
| 20:20.28 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: you're no fun. |
| 20:21.07 | kerio | teotwaki: fwiw, "music producers steal software all the time so piracy should not be a thing" isn't a valid argument |
| 20:21.48 | teotwaki | kerio: you're being obtuse if you believe that's my argument. |
| 20:22.14 | teotwaki | My argument is that "piracy" is such a deluded concept, so ass backwards that not even the people who profit from it get it. |
| 20:22.21 | kerio | oh, indeed |
| 20:23.17 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.103) |
| 20:24.22 | teotwaki | kerio & DocScrutinizer05 & Zaerc: http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod.html |
| 20:25.50 | teotwaki | anyway |
| 20:25.58 | teotwaki | off to steal some napkins at McDonalds. |
| 20:26.02 | Zaerc | thanks, sounds like fun |
| 20:26.25 | Zaerc | teotwaki: stay safe, copy them instead ;) |
| 20:32.46 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@253.75.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Zaerc: actually the start point is >>[2013-03-02 20:34:06] <Zaerc> ummm... stealing isn't the same as not paying a license fee<< which I disagreed. And none of my arguments why I did been proven incorrect by anybody |
| 20:34.56 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: fascinating |
| 20:34.59 | *** join/#maemo Chiku|dc (~Chiku01@vau06-5-88-183-56-98.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:35.00 | *** join/#maemo Chiku|dc (~Chiku01@unaffiliated/chiku) |
| 20:35.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you just stated the obvious and meant "it has different number and set of characters in it" or sth |
| 20:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | while I thought you implied that the act of piracy should be considered different than that of stealing |
| 20:36.24 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@91-64-221-58-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:36.25 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 20:36.35 | kerio | it bloody well should |
| 20:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it bloody well isn't - at least where I live, and in this channel |
| 20:37.31 | kerio | i didn't know german law applied in this channel |
| 20:37.34 | kerio | freenode is uk-based |
| 20:38.16 | *** join/#maemo Chiku|dc (~Chiku01@unaffiliated/chiku) |
| 20:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what? did anybody suggest that? |
| 20:38.32 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: you just did |
| 20:38.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 20:38.45 | kerio | yeah, that's what i got from your message |
| 20:40.00 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.201.14) |
| 20:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | all i stated is that where I live piracy is considered same as stealing, and same applies for this channel, when it comes to freenode rules about encouraging unlawful behaviour |
| 20:40.19 | Zaerc | now there's your bullshit |
| 20:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | this doesn't imply in any way that freenode was related to german laws in any way |
| 20:41.10 | Zaerc | nobody here is encouraging unlawful behavior by disagreeing with you |
| 20:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody here is thinking your assumptions make any sense |
| 20:41.50 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: so now you know exactly what everyone here thinks? |
| 20:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and vanilla pudding isn't a burger |
| 20:43.23 | Zaerc | please speak for yourself, and not the whole channel |
| 20:43.44 | Zaerc | unless they have appointed you as their spokesperson of course |
| 20:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Zaerc: sorry you're again suffering a misconception. I speak for the chan as in "i'm moderator of this chan" |
| 20:45.46 | Zaerc | sounds like you don't understand the concept of moderation to me |
| 20:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and now I definitely am bored by this topic and will not go discuss it with you any further |
| 20:46.00 | Zaerc | then stop bringing it up |
| 20:50.21 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@253.75.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:55.58 | *** join/#maemo alec_ (44b9cf82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.185.207.130) |
| 20:56.17 | alec_ | if i have the ubuntu scratchbox vm, should/can i dist-upgrade it to 12.10? |
| 20:56.27 | alec_ | i mean, update-manager prompts me to upgrade |
| 20:56.42 | alec_ | but that won't break anything in scratchbox will it? and it's a good idea generally right? |
| 20:56.59 | alec_ | have newer libraries, repos, etc? |
| 20:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll bring it up next time I read a statement that sounds to me as if somebody was apologizing piracy and encouraging it, in this chan. My reaction will be less verbose then |
| 20:59.32 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: so you're not bored with it then |
| 21:00.04 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 21:00.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 21:00.26 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 21:00.55 | kerio | alec_: chances are, it'll bork it |
| 21:00.59 | kerio | but meh, it's worth a shot |
| 21:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *am* bored to death with your trolling |
| 21:01.08 | kerio | you still have the image, right? |
| 21:01.31 | XATRIX | Ok, look, i've created backup: Connection&Calendar,Bookmarks,Settings,Applications. Now i need to copy it out, and try to reflash it |
| 21:01.38 | XATRIX | Is it right? |
| 21:01.51 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: nice way to avoid an open discussion |
| 21:02.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | stop highlighting me, moron |
| 21:02.25 | alec_ | i do have the image |
| 21:02.28 | alec_ | i will clone the vm |
| 21:02.35 | alec_ | dist-upgrade one, keep the other as-is |
| 21:02.38 | Zaerc | DocScrutinizer05: namecalling? really? |
| 21:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't owe you any open discussion |
| 21:02.58 | alec_ | the question is, how can i compile the stuff with the antiquated 10.10 setup? any thoughts, kerio |
| 21:02.59 | alec_ | ? |
| 21:03.24 | Zaerc | alec_: I'm having the same problem |
| 21:03.27 | kerio | scratchbox is a separate thing anyway |
| 21:03.41 | alec_ | ok |
| 21:03.42 | kerio | and it's maemo fremantle that's antiquated :) |
| 21:03.43 | XATRIX | Guys, please calm down. And help a novice guy, who like to experiment to solve his problem:) |
| 21:04.09 | Zaerc | XATRIX: that sounded right, but I can't be sure |
| 21:09.27 | Zaerc | kerio: is there a good alternative to fremantle for the n900? |
| 21:09.34 | kerio | nope |
| 21:09.45 | XATRIX | Zaerc: meego ? |
| 21:09.50 | kerio | XATRIX: nope |
| 21:09.51 | XATRIX | droid4 ? |
| 21:10.01 | kerio | still nope |
| 21:10.08 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-84-220-56-51.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 21:10.09 | kerio | meego only half works, and the battery life is pitiful |
| 21:10.19 | kerio | android only half works either |
| 21:10.21 | kerio | and it's android |
| 21:10.23 | Zaerc | well those maybe alternatives, but they didn't seem very good to me |
| 21:10.36 | alec_ | lol: "and it's android"... indeed... |
| 21:10.49 | Zaerc | android doesn't appeal to me at all |
| 21:10.54 | XATRIX | why do you thinks it works half ? android ? |
| 21:11.17 | kerio | afaik no alternative OS on the n900 has working phone calls, for once |
| 21:11.42 | XATRIX | ( |
| 21:11.46 | XATRIX | did you test it ? |
| 21:11.51 | alec_ | when i try to run scratchbox i get 'unterminated quoted string'. |
| 21:11.56 | alec_ | anyone have any clue why? |
| 21:12.22 | Zaerc | alec_: because there is a " or ' missing somewhere? ;) |
| 21:12.56 | Zaerc | (sorry I don't know either) |
| 21:13.30 | kerio | XATRIX: i haven't tested android, i did test nemo |
| 21:18.14 | *** join/#maemo piggz__ (~piggz@host-92-18-189-34.as13285.net) |
| 21:19.46 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:21.39 | XATRIX | Where the backup i made is located ? |
| 21:21.43 | XATRIX | on the handset |
| 21:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on what you selected as destination |
| 21:24.54 | XATRIX | card |
| 21:25.00 | *** join/#maemo scoobertron (~tom@93.186.144.230) |
| 21:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually it's a good idea |
| 21:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | then check your uSD, it has a drawer like "backups" or ".backup" or sth |
| 21:25.33 | XATRIX | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.34 | XATRIX | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.36 | *** join/#maemo Darkchaos (~darkchaos@88.130.201.14) |
| 21:26.32 | XATRIX | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.34 | XATRIX | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.35 | XATRIX | O_O |
| 21:26.50 | XATRIX | I have 2G falsh card |
| 21:26.55 | XATRIX | so i suppose it to be /home |
| 21:27.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, /home is internal eMMC |
| 21:27.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | /media/card/backup |
| 21:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 21:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | /media/mmc1/backup |
| 21:27.47 | XATRIX | ok |
| 21:28.23 | XATRIX | sounds if it is proper location ) |
| 21:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your uSD is a 2GB, then you either partitioned/formatted it incorrectly, or you simply have a second partition eating the remaining 1GB |
| 21:28.52 | XATRIX | Em..... |
| 21:29.03 | XATRIX | Why it is not correctly partitioned ? |
| 21:29.12 | XATRIX | Wait a bit |
| 21:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | because of /dev/mmcblk1p1 951.6M |
| 21:29.41 | XATRIX | you're right |
| 21:29.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suppose there's also a /dev/mmcblk1p2 |
| 21:30.05 | XATRIX | nope |
| 21:30.21 | XATRIX | Sounds if it is 1G |
| 21:30.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 21:30.49 | *** part/#maemo valeriusN (root@80.250.181.195) |
| 21:30.57 | *** join/#maemo valerius2k (root@80.250.181.195) |
| 21:32.15 | kerio | XATRIX: you have a 1GB flash |
| 21:32.21 | XATRIX | Yep |
| 21:32.30 | kerio | or, rather, you have a uSD with at least 951.6M |
| 21:32.34 | kerio | and a 951.6M partition |
| 21:32.59 | XATRIX | What does mean .modest ? |
| 21:33.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | mail |
| 21:33.13 | XATRIX | ok |
| 21:33.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc why it creates dirs on uSD |
| 21:39.18 | *** join/#maemo valerius (~user@85.26.180.131) |
| 21:39.35 | XATRIX | do i have to extract my external flash while flashing device ? |
| 21:39.42 | XATRIX | or i can leave it there? |
| 21:40.33 | Zaerc | it shouldn't be affected afaik |
| 21:41.44 | XATRIX | i hope it won't interfer |
| 21:42.08 | Zaerc | you can always take it out to be on the safe side |
| 21:42.22 | XATRIX | Ok, now i will start asking some questions , to make it clear for me |
| 21:42.52 | XATRIX | Some time ago, i was advised by Doc to reflash my device cause i messed up everything |
| 21:42.54 | SpeedEvil | removing the back should ensure it's read only |
| 21:43.48 | XATRIX | Beacause now i have my device tells me my batter dischargin rate is ~3A :) |
| 21:44.34 | XATRIX | Doc was really angry of this |
| 21:44.40 | XATRIX | Now i have to fix this crap :) |
| 21:45.22 | XATRIX | Alright, i'd like to use powerkernel after reflash |
| 21:45.44 | XATRIX | is it ok ? Also, i'd like to make my device to use as less power consumption as possible |
| 21:46.38 | Zaerc | powerkernel should be fine I reckon |
| 21:46.57 | ShadowJK | even I moved to pk |
| 21:47.18 | XATRIX | Alright. It's clear. The second queston. Do i have to install/enable any features to make my battery live longer ? |
| 21:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | pk is fine. bme-replacement, not yet |
| 21:47.41 | XATRIX | em.... why not ? |
| 21:47.43 | *** join/#maemo Venusaur (~wdwrf@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 21:47.54 | XATRIX | will it provide me correct chargin data ? |
| 21:47.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, pretty please don't install any battery enhancement stuff, it's all nonsense |
| 21:48.23 | XATRIX | Yes, i noted it |
| 21:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: bme replacement is still highly experimental |
| 21:48.44 | XATRIX | Is it inside the pk ? |
| 21:48.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 21:48.54 | XATRIX | Or it shoud be installed outside of ? |
| 21:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | pk is "clean" |
| 21:49.06 | ShadowJK | though if running pk, "kernel-config load default" in xterminal after boot might reduce poweruse in non-idle mode slightly |
| 21:49.39 | ShadowJK | But yeah, generally a clean install is quite power efficient.. it's what you do after that :) |
| 21:50.50 | XATRIX | Ok.. But do i have to install bme replacement also ? |
| 21:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you shall NOT install bme replacement |
| 21:51.26 | XATRIX | ok |
| 21:51.56 | kerio | bme-replacement works fine, apart for some weirdness in the handling of the LED |
| 21:52.01 | kerio | as long as you have kp52 |
| 21:52.06 | XATRIX | Also i'd like to ask about BleedingEdge wifi drivers |
| 21:52.09 | kerio | but it's highly experimental |
| 21:52.19 | XATRIX | I couldn't load it with my currect installation |
| 21:52.25 | kerio | XATRIX: they have problems with power consumption |
| 21:52.30 | kerio | so only use them to do packet injection |
| 21:53.01 | XATRIX | Hm... i don't crack anything |
| 21:53.27 | kerio | then don't use them |
| 21:54.13 | XATRIX | Ok, but this thing has a cool panel wifi-toggle :) |
| 21:54.18 | XATRIX | very handy |
| 21:54.24 | Estel_ | kerio, btw, are you awarwe how to disable bme replacement (i.e. avoiding device shutdown)? |
| 21:54.36 | Estel_ | eqauivalent of old'bad' stop bme? |
| 21:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting question |
| 21:55.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | modprobe -r bq24150? |
| 21:55.23 | Estel_ | Pali, ^ last time I've asked about this, we started to talk about edv1 and making shutdown configurable, and my qauestion got forgotten |
| 21:55.36 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, not likely, as shutdown is calledd from dsme? |
| 21:55.36 | kerio | try modprobe -r bq27x00_battery |
| 21:55.47 | Estel_ | bq27 doesngt have anything to do with it |
| 21:55.56 | ShadowJK | should add a shutdown to his userspace charge31... |
| 21:55.57 | kerio | Estel_: your only bet is to stop hald-addon-bme from doing things |
| 21:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | dsme doesn't really have to do anything with it |
| 21:56.18 | Pali | rmmod drivers |
| 21:56.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sorry, just quoting Pali :P |
| 21:56.22 | kerio | ...i reckon that rmmodding bq27x00_battery would just make the phone shutdown |
| 21:56.32 | Estel_ | kerio, no, it doesnt |
| 21:56.34 | Pali | hald-addon-bme will handle it |
| 21:56.37 | kerio | yay |
| 21:56.42 | Estel_ | I triwed it zillion times while writing new version of bnf |
| 21:56.55 | Estel_ | Pali, it will? |
| 21:57.12 | Estel_ | OK |
| 21:57.14 | Pali | and will wait until kernel provides power supply interface again |
| 21:57.33 | Estel_ | of course it's just ugly workaround for calibration, 'till version with gconf configurable treeshold arrives :) |
| 21:57.43 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 21:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, afaik hald-addon-bme is detecting conditions to shutdown, and then uses dsme to initiate friendly shutdown |
| 21:58.01 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, I see |
| 21:58.22 | Estel_ | Pali, no way ny just "frozing" hald-addon-bme, btw? |
| 21:58.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | while it uses kernel modules to acquire data of whether or not to shutdown |
| 21:58.52 | Estel_ | s/ny/by/ |
| 21:59.06 | Pali | hald-addon-bme trying to read bq27x power_supply values every 30 (?) s |
| 21:59.48 | Pali | and every 60 (?) s checking if bq2415x is loaded |
| 22:00.36 | Pali | and when detect it is loaded it sleep in select/poll for changes |
| 22:01.33 | *** join/#maemo sq-one_ (~sq-one@p549A9B8B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:01.46 | XATRIX | Guys, is it possible to make my device to be very responsible while it should detect the idle(when i don't directly use it) state and turn itself to low power-consumption mode ? |
| 22:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: maemo *always* enters low power mode when not used |
| 22:02.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | even for sub-second durations of "idle" |
| 22:02.45 | XATRIX | hmm |
| 22:03.11 | ShadowJK | In some cases, it can enter low power idle even with screen on |
| 22:03.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: it's not like your usual desktop linux that needs hibernate or suspend to save energy |
| 22:04.17 | XATRIX | scaling_governor ? |
| 22:04.23 | kerio | as long as your background processes are written correctly |
| 22:04.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | among others, yes |
| 22:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: though mostly zero-clock and general smartreflex design |
| 22:05.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: the idea is OMAP SoC shutting down every subsystem all the time during idle |
| 22:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | even CPU |
| 22:05.37 | XATRIX | but smartreflxex is only possible with pk |
| 22:05.40 | XATRIX | isn't it ? |
| 22:05.57 | kerio | not necessarily, the governor does something very, very similar |
| 22:06.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | smartreflex is more than just hardware CPU clock adjustment |
| 22:06.08 | XATRIX | never saw my system was shut down completly... |
| 22:06.16 | XATRIX | every time my cpu is doing something |
| 22:06.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually maemo doesn't use the CPU clock function of SR |
| 22:06.27 | kerio | the point is that it doesn't need to shut down to make the cpu idle |
| 22:06.35 | XATRIX | it doesn't even clock-down to 250 at least 10% of a time |
| 22:06.44 | kerio | XATRIX: yeah, you've done something really wrong |
| 22:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: each time you "look" your system is *actually* doing something |
| 22:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 22:07.12 | SpeedEvil | look at power top |
| 22:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | only way |
| 22:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | powertop |
| 22:07.28 | XATRIX | hm |
| 22:07.30 | SpeedEvil | it should stay idle for several seconds at a time |
| 22:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~power |
| 22:07.40 | infobot | rumour has it, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 22:07.44 | SpeedEvil | 3.5s is tpyoically piowsiblle |
| 22:08.17 | kerio | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:08.19 | XATRIX | http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ |
| 22:08.25 | kerio | and now i feel disappointed |
| 22:08.41 | XATRIX | kerio: yep! :) |
| 22:08.49 | kerio | wtf is that shit |
| 22:09.41 | XATRIX | It's my bme :) |
| 22:09.47 | XATRIX | screwdup |
| 22:09.49 | kerio | nope |
| 22:09.56 | kerio | no way you're pulling 5A from the battery |
| 22:10.13 | XATRIX | Wanna connect via ssh ;) |
| 22:10.15 | XATRIX | ? |
| 22:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: that looks pretty normal to me |
| 22:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | (paste) |
| 22:10.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: wat |
| 22:10.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | not? |
| 22:10.48 | kerio | -5677mA |
| 22:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 22:11.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's definitely bogus |
| 22:11.04 | XATRIX | it means it charges up to 5A :) |
| 22:11.12 | XATRIX | I have charger applied |
| 22:11.44 | XATRIX | Even my car 65A battery can't charge up with 5A :)))) (joke) |
| 22:12.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, you probbaly have bme-replacement or bq27200.ko module loaded |
| 22:12.31 | XATRIX | don't know :( |
| 22:12.35 | XATRIX | no module loaded |
| 22:12.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | or dunno what else your code you ran to get that output is doing |
| 22:12.50 | Zaerc | XATRIX: my 8Ah bicycle battery can ;) |
| 22:13.11 | XATRIX | Zaerc: you're killing it ;) |
| 22:13.30 | Zaerc | no, it's LiPo, it can handle much more then that |
| 22:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: add "set +v" at top of that script you run to get http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ |
| 22:13.41 | kerio | what's that script anyway |
| 22:13.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess sth from http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 22:14.22 | XATRIX | em...what should i do ? |
| 22:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell us what "software" you used to get http://fpaste.org/HEFr/ |
| 22:15.06 | XATRIX | http://fpaste.org/SOGz/ |
| 22:15.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: meh |
| 22:15.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't say "use powerstta +v" |
| 22:16.07 | XATRIX | http://fpaste.org/54VK/ |
| 22:16.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | if [[ -e /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/current_now ]] |
| 22:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | checks if bq27200.ko is loaded |
| 22:16.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if so, it's using it |
| 22:16.59 | XATRIX | Nokia-N900:~# lsmod | grep bq27200 |
| 22:17.01 | XATRIX | Nokia-N900:~# |
| 22:17.07 | kerio | kp51's bq27x00_battery is fubar |
| 22:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | do "lsmod|grep bq" |
| 22:17.21 | kerio | there's never been such thing as "bq27200.ko" |
| 22:17.29 | XATRIX | bq27x00_battery 6480 0 |
| 22:17.30 | XATRIX | power_supply 6916 1 bq27x00_battery |
| 22:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | see? |
| 22:17.38 | XATRIX | :( |
| 22:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's even full bme-replacement, as far as kernel is involved |
| 22:18.03 | kerio | if it's not a problem, reflash and don't install shit you don't understand the purpose of |
| 22:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you isntalled bme replacement |
| 22:18.15 | XATRIX | :( |
| 22:18.20 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not quite, it's missing bq24150x_charger |
| 22:18.24 | kerio | and rx51_battery |
| 22:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 22:18.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 22:18.40 | kerio | me neither \_o_/ |
| 22:18.50 | kerio | XATRIX: wtf bro |
| 22:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway both modules are suspicious to say the least |
| 22:19.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | bq27x00.ko should be blacklisted in normal KP |
| 22:19.32 | XATRIX | I thought it should give me some extra batter life :( |
| 22:19.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it borks bme |
| 22:19.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's never, ever, ever, ever, ever automatically loaded |
| 22:20.04 | XATRIX | but it just fucked things up :( |
| 22:20.13 | kerio | you can blacklist a module when there's something that loads modules automatically |
| 22:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: I told you NOT to install anything you think might improve your battery life - since it won't |
| 22:20.45 | XATRIX | Yep... But i did it before you actually told me about |
| 22:21.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you know by now |
| 22:21.18 | XATRIX | :( |
| 22:21.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's also the explanation for your bogus readout of 5A charging |
| 22:21.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of flawed charging |
| 22:21.42 | kerio | afaik the latest bme replacement packages depend on kp52 |
| 22:21.45 | kerio | and for a good reason |
| 22:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/of/for/ |
| 22:22.04 | kerio | kp51's bq27k module reports wrong values |
| 22:22.20 | teotwaki | It's probably stealing those values illegally. |
| 22:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: didn't you say you had reflashed? or were about to do? |
| 22:22.35 | XATRIX | Where can i find an image to flash that doesn't actually eats 8G for partition ? |
| 22:22.45 | kerio | teotwaki: i chuckled |
| 22:22.57 | XATRIX | I'm going to reflash it tonight... Actually now |
| 22:23.09 | XATRIX | I'm just getting prepared |
| 22:23.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: sorry? 8GB partition?? |
| 22:23.42 | kerio | http://maemo.jacekowski.org/ binary/firmware/ has the fiascos |
| 22:23.51 | XATRIX | Yea, the default image i can flash cuts over 8G for things |
| 22:23.57 | XATRIX | So you have 32-8G |
| 22:23.58 | kerio | XATRIX: no it doesn't |
| 22:24.10 | kerio | i'm not entirely sure of what you're smoking |
| 22:24.13 | kerio | but it must be good |
| 22:24.19 | XATRIX | And there i saw an image with reduced /home or whatever that eats 32-2G |
| 22:24.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's normal |
| 22:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you patched your fiasco image like suggested in |
| 22:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 22:25.23 | infobot | jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 22:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and forgot about it? |
| 22:25.38 | XATRIX | Nope.. i didn't |
| 22:26.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I'd like to second kerio on his question |
| 22:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather statement |
| 22:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:28.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:28.25 | XATRIX | what is the most recent one firmware ? |
| 22:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | PR1.3 aka 36 iirc |
| 22:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~skeiron |
| 22:29.24 | infobot | skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 22:30.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 |
| 22:30.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 22:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | md5sum: b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 22:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | HTH |
| 22:34.59 | kerio | MD5 (combined-pr13.fiasco) = b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 |
| 22:34.59 | kerio | MD5 (vanilla-pr13.fiasco) = 488809ff96a0a05479d692e9f77aeb4f |
| 22:36.36 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@116.244.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 22:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/fbaec5084a |
| 22:38.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | flashdat, profit |
| 22:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | do NOT install "1337 stuff" that promises to improve battery life or device speed |
| 22:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: since your knowledge you base those assumptions on is obviously not sufficient, regarding how maemo / OMAP works |
| 22:40.45 | XATRIX | yea :( |
| 22:41.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: that's a partitioning for noobs! |
| 22:41.10 | kerio | http://privatepaste.com/4e9eb3a1f3 |
| 22:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo pure is really fine, until you start spoiling it with such stuff |
| 22:41.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's the partitioning of stock maemo |
| 22:42.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | you suppose Nokia's maemo devels were noobs? |
| 22:42.16 | kerio | yep :P |
| 22:42.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ktnx |
| 22:42.37 | kerio | not really noobs, just deeply misguided by the marketing department |
| 22:47.12 | XATRIX | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1po23AuXKns#at=49 |
| 22:47.23 | XATRIX | meego dialer works well\ |
| 22:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, who misguided *you* then, to not even have swap on internal storage? |
| 22:48.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, meego dialer |
| 22:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's that relevant? |
| 22:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | also oh yeah, I see how great and responsive it acts on pressing any button, during first 30s |
| 22:52.35 | Macer | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.56 | Macer | prepaid ftw |
| 22:53.31 | Macer | e7 works great.. i should see about trying to fix my n900 |
| 22:53.44 | Macer | maybe open it and tighten the screws lol |
| 22:53.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | no screws inside |
| 22:54.01 | Macer | after shoving a penny between whatever is broken |
| 22:54.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: swap on emmc is a waste of space :P |
| 22:54.37 | Macer | but the e7 is awesome minus no more symbian :( |
| 22:54.55 | Macer | symbian was really becoming awesome when they dropped it |
| 22:55.06 | Macer | then again |
| 22:55.09 | Macer | so was maemo |
| 22:55.13 | Macer | so was meego |
| 22:55.24 | Macer | nokia is foolish lol |
| 22:55.40 | Macer | wonder if their ms phones are dominating the market now |
| 22:55.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | no worries, according to this scheme they will stick with winphone forever |
| 22:56.06 | Macer | i know my lumia 900 still doesnt have a 7.8 update |
| 22:56.12 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:56.21 | Macer | after it was supposed to have been released months ago |
| 22:56.30 | Macer | yeah |
| 22:56.46 | Macer | they already paid someone to take symbian for maintenance |
| 22:56.52 | *** join/#maemo bsdmaniak_ (~quassel@2a01:e35:8788:b500:184:8c7c:4df0:7c27) |
| 22:56.54 | Macer | whatever that means |
| 22:57.14 | Macer | someone should decompile symbian and put it on tpb heh |
| 22:57.45 | Macer | or unlock the e7 so i can put maemo on it :) |
| 22:57.52 | Macer | e7 was built better |
| 22:58.12 | Macer | how can china make better qa products than finland and korea? |
| 22:59.18 | Macer | can't believe I didn't have 1 but 2 break from different countries |
| 22:59.23 | Macer | lol |
| 22:59.33 | Macer | fail |
| 23:00.48 | *** join/#maemo int_ua (~int_ua@ip-602f.proline.net.ua) |
| 23:01.00 | Macer | there are only a few things that make symbian sucj which would probably take 1 day to fix |
| 23:01.15 | Macer | no statusbar notification for new email |
| 23:01.19 | Macer | no tabbed ssh app |
| 23:01.30 | Macer | and no telepathy :( |
| 23:01.41 | Macer | i loved n900 IM/txting |
| 23:01.59 | Macer | telepathy was absolutely awesome |
| 23:03.23 | *** join/#maemo EgS (~egs@quassel/developer/egs) |
| 23:03.26 | XATRIX | I wonder if the swap speed is equal to memory speed ? |
| 23:03.37 | XATRIX | It's located also on NAND |
| 23:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: no. swap is located on eMMC while memory is RAM and located somewhere on the OMAP3430 SoC's PoP chip |
| 23:07.21 | XATRIX | ARM7 != OMAP ? |
| 23:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, your questions are all a bit strange |
| 23:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ARM7 is a CPU core basically, while OMAP is a series of SoC built by TI |
| 23:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so how to answer queations that sound like |
| 23:10.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | Intel-X86 != Acer? |
| 23:10.35 | XATRIX | Maybe i missunderstand the difference |
| 23:10.41 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (~b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-62-10-96-53.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 23:11.08 | XATRIX | Actually i thought that arm,omap,sparc,x86 are all the different archs |
| 23:11.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP is a SoC that has an ARM CPU core among other things |
| 23:11.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no, omap is an arm architecture |
| 23:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# uname -a |
| 23:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux |
| 23:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | armv7l |
| 23:12.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | omap1 |
| 23:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 |
| 23:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The OMAP3430 is the first applications processor in the industry to integrate the ARM® Cortex™-A8 superscalar microprocessor core << |
| 23:15.36 | XATRIX | Sounds you're right |
| 23:20.24 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:21.28 | XATRIX | can i actually power my system up without battery in ? |
| 23:25.33 | XATRIX | also i found a new batter for my device :) KEVA 1700mAh :) |
| 23:25.43 | kerio | yeah right |
| 23:26.03 | kerio | well, vi____ has a 1600mAh one |
| 23:26.19 | XATRIX | it's new, so it's gonna to have energy as long as hell :) |
| 23:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: nope, powering up without battery (or other special equipment) isn't possible |
| 23:26.59 | XATRIX | my acer netbook can be powered up while the batt is out |
| 23:29.15 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@91-64-221-58-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 23:29.15 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 23:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | some of my freerunners can be powered up while battery is out |
| 23:32.10 | XATRIX | hmm |
| 23:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 has a bq24150 charger chip. Frerunner has PCF50633 PMU chip |
| 23:34.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno what acer is using, but I'm sure it has a more sophisticated power distribution |
| 23:37.40 | XATRIX | ah . ok |
| 23:38.09 | XATRIX | is it correct if i do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade/dist-upgrade after i flash it ? |
| 23:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | NO! |
| 23:38.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get dist-upgrade is absolutely forbidden |
| 23:38.41 | XATRIX | O_o |
| 23:38.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | upgrade also is deprecated |
| 23:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo has a very special way to handle upgrade packages and dependencies |
| 23:39.26 | XATRIX | so i don't have to install even any toolchain thigs to ? |
| 23:39.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | what for? |
| 23:40.06 | XATRIX | grep,find,fdisk,cp,mv... ? |
| 23:41.45 | kerio | why the hell would you have to install cp |
| 23:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends, most of them come with busybox already |
| 23:42.29 | Zaerc | aren't some of those available in the tools repo? |
| 23:42.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | find/locate is an own package that is better than the busybox crippled stuff, you can install it, see |
| 23:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 23:42.52 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 23:44.09 | XATRIX | ok, will try to find it out |
| 23:44.23 | XATRIX | so, as i assume NO apt-get completely ? |
| 23:45.18 | Zaerc | unless you enjoy reflashing... ;) |
| 23:45.34 | XATRIX | nope |
| 23:47.34 | XATRIX | also, do i have to strictly charge my batt to 100% or i can start flashing with >~60-70% ? |
| 23:47.45 | XATRIX | Or it does measures batt levels during reflash ? |
| 23:51.47 | *** join/#maemo cantcode (~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 23:53.53 | Zaerc | why is everyone so obsessed about the battery? |
| 23:54.09 | XATRIX | I'd like to use it more effeciently |
| 23:54.50 | ccxCZ | 0xFFFF fails to find my n900 when I use it from my laptop |
| 23:55.05 | ccxCZ | from my desktop it worked |
| 23:55.23 | XATRIX | ok...see you tomorrow guys. gotta go now |
| 23:55.23 | Zaerc | XATRIX: and look at the results ;> |
| 23:55.26 | XATRIX | sleep well! |
| 23:55.27 | Zaerc | bye |
| 23:56.21 | *** join/#maemo shawnjefferson (~sjefferso@S01060014d1c91860.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 23:58.33 | shawnjefferson | quick question: in the repos what's the difference between fremantle and fremantle-1.3? |
| 23:58.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ATM nothing afaik |
| 23:59.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it got introduced when we had versioning issues with fremantle1.2 |
