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| 00:56.06 | Drathir | n900 terminal missing keys Home and End for me :/ |
| 00:57.47 | Drathir | sometimes when a lot of text this keys can help a lot... |
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| 02:23.29 | thedead1440 | Drathir: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard#Remapping_keyboard_arrows You can remap your arrow keys to get Home and End |
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| 03:39.59 | Drathir | thedead1440: thanks i check that, but sad that near PgUp and PgDn dont have also home and end or switch inside sym+ctrl menu with keys f1-f12... |
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| 11:07.19 | kerio | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp89tTDxXuI |
| 11:07.28 | kerio | italians do it better :) |
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| 12:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | [personal notice] Thank you NielDK for your dedication to council work and maemo at large despite your personal problems which i hope you'll be able to sort soon to make your life less troubled. Please come here as often and as soon as you feel you can |
| 12:34.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're always welcome, all the best for you! |
| 12:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | . |
| 12:37.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-22 13:36:40] <warfare> The box is in the rack, I'm going to install it in a few minutes ;) |
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| 12:39.58 | freemangordon | yay |
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| 12:59.37 | kerio | yay |
| 12:59.57 | kerio | unless that's code for something else |
| 13:00.10 | kerio | *krrst* the box is in the rack, i repeat, the box is in the rack, over *krsst* |
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| 14:10.25 | Drathir | thedead1440: ok keys remapped and working hrhr, but now question is phone sucessfully reboot or not? ^^ |
| 14:10.52 | Drathir | thedead1440: thanks a lot agaim... |
| 14:11.05 | thedead1440 | Drathir: np ;) |
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| 14:16.10 | Macer | damnit |
| 14:16.13 | Macer | fmobi is broken :-/ |
| 14:16.17 | Macer | on symbian |
| 14:16.19 | Macer | ugh |
| 14:16.27 | Macer | and facinate is just not as good |
| 14:16.46 | Drathir | Macer: what do fmobi? |
| 14:16.47 | Macer | i didn't even know there was an fmobi for maemo heh |
| 14:16.52 | Macer | facebook client |
| 14:16.58 | Macer | it's probably the best one ever made when it works heh |
| 14:17.15 | Macer | i should bust out the n900 and see if it works |
| 14:17.34 | thedead1440 | isn't gravity a good social app for symbian? |
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| 14:18.09 | Macer | i don't think there is an updated qt type version |
| 14:18.26 | Macer | it's like the old ugly interface heh |
| 14:21.57 | Macer | even the stock nokia "social" app is awful heh |
| 14:23.12 | Drathir | Macer: try snaptu and ko all gravity |
| 14:23.43 | ShadowJK | cellmo failong :( |
| 14:24.34 | Drathir | thedead1440: sad that not see ported gravity to n900 |
| 14:25.13 | Drathir | also putty dont see too |
| 14:26.50 | Macer | yeah i have gravity 1.x |
| 14:26.53 | Macer | it's old symbian style |
| 14:26.56 | Macer | s60 type stuff |
| 14:26.58 | Macer | ie: lame heh |
| 14:27.41 | Macer | oh nm |
| 14:27.57 | Macer | i can update to 2.x |
| 14:28.12 | thedead1440 | Drathir: is gravity really needed? I'm not really a social networks user so not too sure but the N900 has good replacements doesn't it? |
| 14:28.27 | Macer | still looks awful lol |
| 14:31.32 | Drathir | thedead1440: good? have something old on qt4 for facebook but is a "little" slower than gravity on facebook and twitter api when compare gravity is mor intuitive and faster with use |
| 14:32.02 | thedead1440 | oh ok |
| 14:32.34 | thedead1440 | there is a tweetian backport on the n900 from Harmattan which should be good considering its well-received in Harmattan |
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| 14:33.21 | Drathir | Macer: i dont know if dont have somewhere my old symbian stuff must look for it |
| 14:33.41 | Macer | i guess gravity 2.x doesn't look too bad |
| 14:33.55 | Macer | fmobi was by far the best one tho |
| 14:34.02 | Macer | but it's broken :-/ don't know why |
| 14:34.17 | Macer | keeps trying to access an address that doesn't exist to authenticate |
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| 14:34.23 | Macer | so probably fb problem |
| 14:34.40 | Drathir | Macer: change looks for dark color mode other was owfull |
| 14:35.18 | Macer | heh |
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| 14:35.22 | Macer | yeah i just changed all that |
| 14:35.26 | Macer | gravity isn't too bad now |
| 14:35.37 | Macer | better than facinte and social to say the least |
| 14:35.46 | Macer | i need to try fmobi on the n900 and see what happens |
| 14:35.54 | Macer | maybe he didn't pay hsi facebook bill :-P |
| 14:36.07 | Drathir | Macer: looks like they must update api and program must to be updated maybe they fix it |
| 14:36.21 | Macer | so far it's been that way for like 3 days heh |
| 14:36.28 | Macer | oh well.. no big deal. i can deal with gravity |
| 14:37.02 | Macer | gravity isn't bad once you disable the "blue toolbar" option heh |
| 14:37.12 | Macer | why would you have a blue toolbar by default? it is so ugly |
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| 14:40.07 | Drathir | Macer: also gravity can handle multiple accounts oauth ssl and stream in near real time |
| 14:41.45 | Macer | i only use fb ;) |
| 14:41.53 | Macer | so the other accts don't matter much to me tbh |
| 14:42.14 | Drathir | Macer: now fmobi i check on n900 |
| 14:42.23 | Macer | for using just fb... fmobi is killer heh |
| 14:42.37 | Macer | it is like 10x better than the app that fb themselves make |
| 14:42.38 | Macer | heh |
| 14:42.40 | Macer | awesome interface |
| 14:43.19 | Drathir | Macer: gravity also have a thousand options dont see on first look |
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| 14:44.21 | Macer | hm |
| 14:44.24 | Macer | why does it use its own kb |
| 14:44.29 | Macer | and not my swype kb? |
| 14:44.32 | Macer | (gravity) |
| 14:45.26 | Drathir | Macer: gravity is direct created for twitter in last time they add support for facebook and work on that - twitter is more perfect than facebook when i last using program |
| 14:46.02 | Macer | you can't check in in gravity ;) |
| 14:46.30 | Drathir | Macer: kb settings also can be changed if good remember |
| 14:46.40 | Macer | not that i can see |
| 14:46.41 | Macer | heh |
| 14:47.31 | Drathir | sadly no :/ my old e51 have a accident and looks little dead ^^ |
| 14:47.43 | Macer | lol |
| 14:47.49 | Macer | i'm running this on an e7 ;) |
| 14:47.56 | Drathir | nice |
| 14:48.00 | Macer | what's important to me is the interface more than anything |
| 14:48.10 | Macer | guys here really gave e7 a bad rap |
| 14:48.14 | Macer | it's an awesome device |
| 14:48.22 | Macer | if i knew it was this good i'd have gotten one long ago |
| 14:49.00 | Macer | symbian seems better than maemo.. i just miss the little things |
| 14:49.04 | Macer | like an xserver and xterm ;) |
| 14:49.33 | Drathir | for me nokia good phone end on e51 and n900 all phones after sadly are really bad :/ |
| 14:49.56 | Macer | e7 isn't ;) |
| 14:50.02 | Macer | only because it has the qwerty tho heh |
| 14:50.24 | thedead1440 | Macer: actually the E7 was a good device >2 years ago; the EDoF camera, lack of expandable storage etc are really let downs and after using Symbian^3 for a few months the lags always come back to haunt. |
| 14:50.29 | Drathir | rally i dont have e7 in my hands |
| 14:50.52 | Macer | thedead1440: yeah those things are valid points |
| 14:50.56 | Macer | but nowadays they are $300 |
| 14:50.57 | Macer | and good ;) |
| 14:51.08 | Macer | i can deal with the 16GB and edof cam |
| 14:51.15 | Macer | i just won't take pics of human blood cells heh |
| 14:51.18 | sixwheeledbeast | yuck, symbian multitasking |
| 14:51.24 | Drathir | but nokia 500 when i configure to friend is a pice of bad words |
| 14:51.36 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: what's wrong with symbian multitasking? :) seems to work ok for me |
| 14:51.47 | Macer | i hate their newer gen phones don't have a kb :-/ |
| 14:51.52 | Macer | no newer phones do nowadays |
| 14:51.56 | Macer | i NEED my qwerty |
| 14:52.38 | Macer | the multitasking seems to work rather well in comparison to say... iphone or wp7 :) even android heh |
| 14:52.47 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: everything gets hidden and it's counter-intuitive |
| 14:52.55 | sixwheeledbeast | I also NEED a keyboard now |
| 14:53.03 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: heh.. what do you mean hidden? |
| 14:53.17 | Macer | holding the middle button brings up a task manager |
| 14:53.26 | Macer | similar to the button in maemo on the top left |
| 14:53.50 | Macer | you can even install an app to bring it up by pressing somewhere on the screen heh |
| 14:53.55 | Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: on e51 i works on 10+ apps in really good performance one reason why no more was no more of ram in phone i stay less than 5mb free near 2mb and phone go smoothly |
| 14:53.59 | Macer | it strangely reminded me of maemo when i used it |
| 14:54.04 | Macer | minus the xserver :-/ |
| 14:54.08 | Macer | and telepathy |
| 14:54.13 | sixwheeledbeast | it's not "proper" multitasking so to speak, it does work better than If-fone I agree. |
| 14:54.15 | Macer | what i would give for telepathy now heh |
| 14:54.33 | Drathir | yes that the reason i took my n900 - have a kb :p |
| 14:54.36 | Macer | 9d0ji don't understand |
| 14:54.38 | Macer | oops |
| 14:54.42 | Macer | sixwheeledbeast: i dn't understand :) |
| 14:54.47 | Macer | how is it not proper multitasking? |
| 14:54.52 | Macer | apps continue to run in the background |
| 14:55.05 | *** join/#maemo zacharias (~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias) |
| 14:55.05 | Macer | and you have a task manager to get access to them which lists which ones are running and shows a screen shot |
| 14:55.11 | Macer | almost exactly like maemo |
| 14:55.43 | Macer | Drathir: that's why i got the e7 |
| 14:55.49 | Macer | as opposed to like an 808 or something |
| 14:55.51 | Macer | the kb :-/ |
| 14:56.01 | sixwheeledbeast | but there not running together there minimized and you have to go back to each one to get rid |
| 14:56.11 | Macer | er |
| 14:56.16 | Macer | the task manager allows you to close them from the list |
| 14:56.38 | Macer | each one has a little "X" to close them directly from the task manager |
| 14:57.11 | Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: new galaxy tab if good hear can handle two aps on half shared screen |
| 14:57.16 | Macer | you must have not used symbian in a while lol... it isn't the same s60 from the n95 days :) although.. i loved my n95 |
| 14:57.25 | sixwheeledbeast | Not in my experience of a 5800 |
| 14:57.55 | sixwheeledbeast | Drathir: I wouldn't have andriod |
| 14:57.57 | Macer | i always thought nokia was stupid for holding onto symbian for so long |
| 14:58.07 | Macer | but after actually using belle... it was about to become awesome |
| 14:58.08 | jacekowski | symbian was great |
| 14:58.10 | Macer | they were just too late heh |
| 14:58.28 | jacekowski | android is horribly slow compared to symbian |
| 14:58.31 | Macer | jacekowski: yeah |
| 14:58.37 | jacekowski | esspecialy early versions of symbian |
| 14:58.38 | Macer | and belle looks very similar to android |
| 14:58.41 | Macer | he |
| 14:58.49 | Macer | the qb based apps look great |
| 14:58.53 | Macer | qt |
| 14:58.57 | jacekowski | as in 7650 and thereabouts |
| 14:59.01 | jacekowski | then it somehow got slower |
| 14:59.03 | Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: but only show way where this all going to share screen resolution of screen must be really high |
| 14:59.11 | thedead1440 | Drathir: SGS2, SGS3, Note2, a number of Galaxy Tabs and iPad all have split-screen. iPad also has multiple windows (jail-broken) |
| 14:59.24 | Macer | thedead1440: LIES!! |
| 14:59.25 | Macer | heh |
| 14:59.29 | jacekowski | split screen? |
| 14:59.36 | thedead1440 | Macer: ? |
| 14:59.40 | jacekowski | phone screens are already tiny and you want to make them smaller |
| 14:59.40 | Macer | i'm joking |
| 14:59.45 | thedead1440 | haha |
| 14:59.53 | Macer | note is rather large |
| 14:59.53 | Macer | heh |
| 15:00.18 | Drathir | jacekowski: with good hardware androids work smoothly but dont know if it worth a price |
| 15:00.22 | Macer | i honestly can't picture someone talking on one without using an earpiece |
| 15:00.24 | sixwheeledbeast | but it's more of a preview if you need to work on the screen you fullscreen obv. |
| 15:00.27 | jacekowski | Drathir: i've got galaxy nexus |
| 15:00.28 | Macer | that thing looks like it needs a hand strap |
| 15:00.35 | thedead1440 | jacekowski: My SGS2 with split-screen is good for the times you want to do a direct copy-paste, chat while waiting for browser to load etc. Use the split-screen then you realize it works well |
| 15:00.36 | jacekowski | Drathir: which is 2x1.2GHz |
| 15:00.55 | jacekowski | Drathir: and people that used android for longer than i do claim that it is really fast |
| 15:01.03 | jacekowski | Drathir: by android standards |
| 15:01.13 | Hurrian | thedead1440, you mean you're on the official Samsung 4.1.2 ROM? |
| 15:01.15 | Hurrian | Eww. |
| 15:01.18 | jacekowski | Drathir: after hearing that, i don't want to know how slow it was before |
| 15:01.31 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: the leaked SGS3 JB ROM |
| 15:01.35 | Macer | heh |
| 15:01.41 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 15:01.45 | Macer | jacekowski: yeah i don't get that.. when did phones require quad core 2GHz cpus? |
| 15:01.49 | Macer | heh |
| 15:02.04 | Macer | i wish i had that kind of batttery in my e7. it would last for 200 days :) |
| 15:02.14 | Drathir | jacekowski: how much ram onboard? |
| 15:02.27 | jacekowski | 1G |
| 15:02.28 | Hurrian | thedead1440: I'd much prefer swiping from app to app (LMT Launcher, perhaps) instead of split screen on a phone. |
| 15:02.36 | Macer | sounds like my tf101 |
| 15:02.54 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: also things like notification bar having direct access to call the sender of a sms, reply, forward buttons all there make it really useful. My SGS2 is not there for playing around; its for getting things done and it does it fast and well when i need it |
| 15:03.22 | Hurrian | thedead1440, yep, Android notification bar and quick reply sure is useful. |
| 15:03.28 | Drathir | jacekowski: yes i agree it looks a higher performance grade |
| 15:03.30 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@253.75.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:03.56 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: also the ability to play 720p and 1080p without installing any codecs, smart stay from S3 are pretty neat |
| 15:04.04 | thedead1440 | as is the copy of EasyAnswer from the N9 |
| 15:04.22 | Hurrian | thedead1440, it depends on what device you have |
| 15:04.40 | Hurrian | If you're unlucky enough to have bought a Tegra 2 device, HD playback on non-baseline profile is shit. |
| 15:05.08 | thedead1440 | I play non-baseline HD normally |
| 15:05.14 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@89.106.197.110) |
| 15:05.15 | thedead1440 | its not only device but drivers |
| 15:05.25 | thedead1440 | and Samsung's own ROMs have best support for playback |
| 15:05.39 | Hurrian | Yup, my Note 2 plays anything I throw at it, even Hi10p videos. |
| 15:05.54 | thedead1440 | that's cheating; Note 2 vs S2 :p |
| 15:06.33 | Hurrian | The only downside is that I rarely, if ever, bring it out with me. |
| 15:06.37 | Drathir | if n900 can use 720p with accelerate in mplayer that was really strong |
| 15:07.08 | Hurrian | I used to have a S2, until I broke the screen. Bought a Note 2, thinking I'll play with it as much as I did with the S2. |
| 15:07.24 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@253.75.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:08.52 | Hurrian | thedead1440, speaking of split screen, I just got a U2311H, and it's frakkin' big compared to my old 18.5" Samsung. |
| 15:08.55 | thedead1440 | yup the Note2 is pretty decent |
| 15:09.32 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: ah nice; finally 2 Word documents properly split ;) |
| 15:10.04 | Hurrian | I can finally see the point behind tiling WMs, too. Before I got this, I had only one app on screen at any given time. |
| 15:10.48 | Hurrian | imo, a full size tablet would make 100% use of split-screen. |
| 15:11.04 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: indeed iPad makes good use of multi-windows too |
| 15:11.28 | Hurrian | thedead1440, /that/ jailbreak tweak finally got tiling WM mode? |
| 15:11.45 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: you mean Quasar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_DvfOOeJE Its since 2011 |
| 15:12.02 | Hurrian | Last time I tried it, it used floating windows, which were cool, but wasted a lot of space. Didn't see a tiling mode last time. |
| 15:12.04 | thedead1440 | s/2011/2012/ |
| 15:12.49 | thedead1440 | its floating windows but you can put 2 windows properly with little wastage |
| 15:12.59 | *** join/#maemo konelix (~konelix@190.143.228.32) |
| 15:13.17 | Hurrian | Ah. Well, Apple better start making their apps resolution and aspect-independent, like Android. |
| 15:13.32 | thedead1440 | the HW arms race has made multi-tasking really a foregone conclusion |
| 15:13.44 | Hurrian | That was one of my main gripes with Quasar back then - apps just scaled, they didn't morph. |
| 15:14.24 | thedead1440 | ah seems better now |
| 15:14.47 | Hurrian | thedead1440: the multitasking needs to not feel awkward. |
| 15:14.56 | *** join/#maemo eijk_ (~eijk@e178214190.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:15.52 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: indeed but its getting there isn't it? Due to the powerful HW poor SW is disguised |
| 15:16.01 | Hurrian | The current Android and iOS multitasking model is fucked, really. It takes you out of the moment. |
| 15:16.43 | Hurrian | What needs to be done is a multitasking environment where you feel that all the apps you have open are a glance/swipe away. |
| 15:16.57 | thedead1440 | yup or you can tile them all |
| 15:17.38 | Hurrian | thedead1440: a "wall" of apps, arranged in a tiled grid, each app occupying full screen, and you can simply swipe through them. |
| 15:17.43 | thedead1440 | i wasn't willing to install the leaked S3 ROM since i felt split-screen is a gimmick but using it for somewhile the worth is there when you really are multi-tasking. |
| 15:18.22 | Hurrian | Is split screen on the S2's screen comfortable? I can't imagine a square web browser window. |
| 15:18.52 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: imagine on 3G you are waiting for TMO to load and you chat below on Gtalk while the loading is done |
| 15:19.08 | thedead1440 | multiply that by 6-8times and it makes sense then |
| 15:19.42 | thedead1440 | you don't have to swipe or press any button to monitor the load of webpage progress |
| 15:19.47 | Hurrian | ooh |
| 15:20.23 | thedead1440 | or having maps in one split window and gtalk/etc on the other |
| 15:20.29 | Hurrian | Did you change your system font size? I can imagine the split screen enabled apps being really cramped on the stock font size. |
| 15:20.44 | thedead1440 | yup its slightly smaller for me |
| 15:21.20 | Hurrian | thdead1440: imo, the holy grail of mobile multitasking is a DS-style double screened phone. |
| 15:21.33 | Hurrian | Or, a sliding one with two identically-sized screens. |
| 15:21.38 | thedead1440 | before this i used to use hybrid mode ROM. It had a mix of tablet and phone UI so like for settings you don't need to click click click and then back back but navigate like a tablet |
| 15:21.57 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 15:22.04 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: yup that would be really cool and desirable |
| 15:22.05 | *** join/#maemo przelosowany (59450c2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.69.12.42) |
| 15:22.17 | przelosowany | hello |
| 15:22.23 | Hurrian | thedead1440: I tried PA on my S2 before, when it didn't have the pie function, and was only troubled by the waste of space the SW keys have |
| 15:22.44 | Hurrian | now, if you have a S2 without the hardware keys, that's another story |
| 15:22.56 | thedead1440 | true it was fixed later on iirc |
| 15:23.03 | przelosowany | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47360 - I'm looking for this .deb, but link in the thread is dead |
| 15:23.28 | Hurrian | If they made a Note 2-sized Galaxy Nexus, I would buy it in a heartbeat. |
| 15:23.34 | przelosowany | I'd do a lot to avoid compiling on phone; bunch of photos were deleted accidentally and I don't want to write anything in their place |
| 15:23.41 | Hurrian | ParanoidAndroid PIE is the boss. |
| 15:23.45 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: yup that would be epic |
| 15:24.39 | thedead1440 | I also dig the build quality of Samsung. They give you expandable memory, user-replacable battery and a good screen but its all plastic. Kinda feels cheap no matter how good the internals are |
| 15:25.16 | *** join/#maemo ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@funtoo/user/ZogG) |
| 15:25.31 | thedead1440 | Use N9-esque build quality+materials and its suddenly so much more desirable |
| 15:26.10 | Hurrian | thedead1440, I don't really give a crap about Samsung's flexiplastic build (see the battery cover, ffs). I stick it into a rubber/plastic shell, and call it a day. |
| 15:26.25 | thedead1440 | hehe |
| 15:27.16 | Hurrian | (Not to the extent of putting it in an Otterbox, but I usually use a clear plastic condom just to keep the device body safe from cracks) |
| 15:27.36 | thedead1440 | haha i use a plastic shell usually |
| 15:27.41 | kerio | otterbox ftw |
| 15:27.45 | thedead1440 | its not worth to be left naked like the n9 :D |
| 15:28.27 | Hurrian | thedead1440, if there's one thing I could tell phone manufacturers: stop making it thinner, give us bigger LiPos |
| 15:28.41 | thedead1440 | +1 to that |
| 15:28.55 | Hurrian | we /have/ to be approaching the physical limit of manufacturing these things |
| 15:29.39 | Hurrian | imo, start researching ways of making them less brittle, make them water resistant like most Sharp android phones from Japan, and put a bigger battery in there. |
| 15:29.53 | Hurrian | There's no reason a $600 device should be that brittle. |
| 15:30.00 | thedead1440 | Yes water resistant like Sharp or Xperia FTW |
| 15:31.04 | thedead1440 | Its kinda a trend to make them anorexic but now that we seem to be reaching a limit maybe just maybe they go the other way and start stuffing a larger battery etc |
| 15:31.39 | teotwaki | Hurrian: I'm fairly sure in 1983, someone said the same about CPUs "Stop making it smaller, I want it to be able to ventilate like mad. We /have/ to be approaching the physical limit of manufacturing these things." |
| 15:31.40 | Hurrian | yup, I don't see the problem in that, people carry Note 2s in their pockets, what's an additional 2mm? |
| 15:32.43 | Hurrian | teotwaki: If they can manufacture the PCB on the shell, props to them. |
| 15:32.56 | ShadowJK | So many coworkers have expensive fancy phones with broken glass screens... :-) |
| 15:33.20 | ShadowJK | too thin bezel, too thin phone, not enough shell to absorb impact and bending forces |
| 15:33.36 | Hurrian | ShadowJK, it's about the glass being on the outside, and not the bezel. |
| 15:33.44 | Hurrian | I blame Apple for making this thing popular. |
| 15:34.00 | Hurrian | It looks pretty good, but it simply shatters way too easily. |
| 15:34.22 | thedead1440 | Well they did raise the bar on getting better looking phones in a way |
| 15:34.39 | Hurrian | The worst offender wrt glass on the outside in the Android camp is the GNote. |
| 15:34.43 | Hurrian | Uhh, GNex. |
| 15:34.45 | Hurrian | Whoops, sleepy. |
| 15:35.03 | thedead1440 | I heard the Nexus4 too has a glass issue due to the glass-back |
| 15:35.20 | Hurrian | it has a /glass back/? |
| 15:35.25 | Hurrian | Man, what's the point of that? |
| 15:35.40 | kerio | Hurrian: to catch more fingerprints |
| 15:35.58 | thedead1440 | Not too sure but that's the last i read. They are damn rare in Singapore so haven't got a close-up with one yet |
| 15:36.12 | Hurrian | Given that Nexus devices are the epitome of cost-cutting, while looking good, I'm surprised they didn't slap a hologram sticker on a plastic back. |
| 15:36.32 | *** join/#maemo sLumPia (~sLumPia@182.5.224.250) |
| 15:37.01 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: yup glass back: http://www.nexus4forum.com/forum/nexus-4-general-discussion/301-glass-back-shattered.html |
| 15:37.50 | Hurrian | Wow. That's just looking for accidents. |
| 15:38.22 | thedead1440 | Indeed i would have thought they would have learned from ip4 and ip4s disasters |
| 15:38.24 | Hurrian | Did every phone manufacturer simply stop using the sides and back as buffer zones for hits? |
| 15:39.05 | thedead1440 | seems like it. They cut costs then make sure you have to pay to get it repaired so earning back somewhat what they lost initially |
| 15:39.47 | Hurrian | That's a pretty sad state of affairs. |
| 15:40.50 | thedead1440 | Its always been like that. Nokia used to abuse after-sales repairs too with crazy prices for minor things and their premium lines had a lot of these minor issues too. |
| 15:41.20 | Hurrian | thedead1440, they do that half-intentionally with shitty QA for products. |
| 15:41.23 | Macer | like usb ports falling off? |
| 15:41.27 | Macer | heh |
| 15:41.33 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't thing anything is manufactured to last now, they want you to buy the next one. |
| 15:41.49 | Macer | my n95 was pretty good |
| 15:41.49 | Macer | heh |
| 15:41.52 | Macer | lasted years |
| 15:41.53 | thedead1440 | Macer: that's a more recent phenomenon :D It inflicted the N8 too |
| 15:41.59 | *** join/#maemo sardini (~halXI@2a01:e35:1386:4120:d044:14d1:63d8:6117) |
| 15:42.00 | Macer | yeah |
| 15:42.02 | sardini | hi |
| 15:42.05 | Macer | that's awful |
| 15:42.05 | Macer | heh |
| 15:42.25 | Macer | usb ports falling of is major fail |
| 15:42.51 | thedead1440 | Macer: on the N8 the Nokia VP or something like that acknowledged it and asked for people with issues to bring it to their nearest Nokia Care but to get it replaced was utterly troublesome so most people would do it at 3rd parties |
| 15:42.54 | Macer | like the iss having itself implode because of a cheap weld |
| 15:43.17 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: indeed |
| 15:43.37 | Macer | i can't even think of where a nokia care center would be in chicago heh |
| 15:43.55 | Macer | i think nokia still has too much arrogance in its head |
| 15:44.08 | Macer | where they think they can give a huge chunk of their users the finger heh |
| 15:44.09 | Hurrian | e.g. N900 being soldered under the sun, N9 CNCd pretty wrong, Lumias bricking, etc. |
| 15:44.31 | Macer | n900s being soldered under the sun? |
| 15:44.31 | Macer | heh |
| 15:44.40 | Macer | was there a sky window or something? |
| 15:44.45 | Hurrian | Macer, s/under/by/ |
| 15:44.47 | *** join/#maemo konelix_ (~konelix@200.49.191.127) |
| 15:44.57 | Macer | heh |
| 15:44.57 | thedead1440 | haha |
| 15:45.09 | Macer | my lumia 900 was fine other than software issues |
| 15:45.15 | Macer | still is.. i might ebay it soon |
| 15:45.21 | thedead1440 | Macer: L920 has major bricking issues |
| 15:45.22 | Hurrian | "100% tin solder! RoHS ultracompliant!" |
| 15:45.27 | thedead1440 | hehe |
| 15:45.30 | Macer | haha |
| 15:45.35 | Macer | ultracompliant ;) |
| 15:45.42 | Macer | because compliant isn't enough! |
| 15:45.59 | Macer | i had 2 n900s |
| 15:46.03 | Macer | 1 usb port fell off |
| 15:46.05 | Macer | 1 modem brok |
| 15:46.06 | Macer | e |
| 15:46.17 | Macer | after the 2nd one i was in despair and gave up on them |
| 15:46.32 | Macer | i mean i would have bought a 3rd and 4th if i broke them myself :) |
| 15:46.51 | Hurrian | fwiw, Sharp makes a pretty long-lasting phone. |
| 15:47.03 | Macer | what does it run tho? android i'm sure |
| 15:47.03 | Macer | heh |
| 15:47.07 | thedead1440 | Macer: Same happened to my n8 but luckily just in time for the N9's release so i chucked it happily |
| 15:47.07 | Hurrian | I have an Intel Atom-powered F-07C which runs hot 24/7. |
| 15:47.14 | Hurrian | Macer: Windows 7. |
| 15:47.18 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: that is one cool device |
| 15:47.26 | Macer | Hurrian: meh |
| 15:47.38 | Macer | windows 8 you mean? or wp7 |
| 15:47.39 | Macer | ? |
| 15:47.51 | Macer | my lumia 900 was suppsoed to get some lame wp7.8 update |
| 15:47.53 | Hurrian | It requires a nuclear reactor to run, but it hasn't shown any sign of bright spots on the LCD. |
| 15:48.12 | Hurrian | Macer: Windows 7, as in Windows NT 6.1.7601, x86. |
| 15:48.17 | Macer | oh wow |
| 15:48.20 | Macer | an x86 phone? |
| 15:48.22 | Macer | nice |
| 15:48.37 | Macer | you have a pic of it? |
| 15:49.14 | Hurrian | Macer, I'll take a pic tomorrow, can't exactly use a flash at this time. |
| 15:49.27 | Macer | http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6172513392_bb2d394abf.jpg |
| 15:49.29 | Macer | that thing? |
| 15:49.44 | Hurrian | Yep, mine's a bit brighter blue though. |
| 15:49.55 | Macer | lol |
| 15:50.01 | Macer | that's the problem with x86 |
| 15:50.05 | Macer | they cant solve the heat problem :) |
| 15:50.06 | Hurrian | It probably lasts 5 hours on standby. |
| 15:50.16 | Macer | and power problem lol |
| 15:50.38 | Macer | you would think that intel would do the obvious thing.. .and use an arm in conjunction with an x86 cpu |
| 15:50.47 | Hurrian | It probably needs a quadruple-SCUD to run acceptably. |
| 15:50.55 | Macer | lol! |
| 15:51.19 | Hurrian | Macer: If you don't feel like burning power, you can switch to the maimed Symbian OS on it |
| 15:51.31 | Macer | symbian on x86? :) |
| 15:51.36 | Hurrian | Apparently, yes. |
| 15:51.52 | Hurrian | I guess you could have a little ARM core that runs Symbian, and simply boots Windows when you need it on the x86 core. |
| 15:51.59 | Macer | yeah |
| 15:52.02 | Macer | that would have been better |
| 15:52.09 | Macer | it has a fan? |
| 15:52.10 | Macer | heh |
| 15:52.33 | Hurrian | Nah, passively cooled. Processor's under clocked to 0.6GHz for obvious reasons. |
| 15:53.01 | Hurrian | I'll probably need to be in Japan to safely use it at 1.2GHz all the time |
| 15:53.02 | thedead1440 | that is the last Symbian device from Japan iirc |
| 15:53.22 | Macer | http://www.morisoba.jp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P7308875.jpg |
| 15:53.25 | Hurrian | thedead1440, Symbian's everywhere on Sharp's low-mid end devices. |
| 15:53.26 | Macer | that thing looks pretty cool |
| 15:53.27 | Macer | heh |
| 15:53.55 | Macer | wonder if i can get one to work on att 3G in the US heh |
| 15:54.13 | Hurrian | It's just not quite recognizable as Symbian. Nor does it work anything like Series 60 Symbian. |
| 15:54.24 | Macer | you mean fujitsu |
| 15:54.25 | Macer | not sharp heh |
| 15:55.16 | Hurrian | Nah, Sharp still makes low-end flip phones for Docomo. |
| 15:55.50 | Hurrian | They suck though, unless you're a weeaboo. It's ridiculously locked down if you're not using the carrier's SIM on it. |
| 15:55.52 | Macer | 3G Network : HSDPA 800, 850, 1700, 2100 MHz |
| 15:56.04 | Macer | 1700? |
| 15:56.05 | *** join/#maemo NIN102 (~NIN@p5DD2834E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:56.05 | Hurrian | No camera, no internet access, no image viewer, etc. |
| 15:56.19 | Hurrian | Macer: Japan has their own bizarre band thing going on. |
| 15:56.43 | Hurrian | IIRC, the USA at least has a network on the 2100 and 800 bands, so you should be good to go with that |
| 15:56.44 | Macer | i thought in the US tmobile used 1700 |
| 15:57.03 | Macer | yeah i think att uses 2100 |
| 15:57.06 | Macer | not positive tho |
| 15:57.13 | Macer | otherwise i'd buy this thing heh |
| 15:57.26 | Macer | http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOCOMO-FUJITSU-F-07C-LOOX-WINDOWS-7-SMARTPHONE-UNLOCKED-JAPAN-/230932008374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c49ecdb6 |
| 15:57.31 | Macer | and the dock :) |
| 15:57.58 | Macer | why don't they sell cool shit like this in the US? :) |
| 15:58.06 | thedead1440 | Japan always come up with good phones; see this WP from Toshiba one of the first WP7 and i think the best WP7 http://www.slashgear.com/fujitsu-toshiba-is12t-wp7-mango-phone-official-27167634/ |
| 15:58.08 | Macer | instead we get stupid iphones |
| 15:58.09 | Hurrian | 595USD? Lemme tell you, it isn't worth it, unless you're seriously into it. |
| 15:58.30 | Macer | can it run linux? |
| 15:58.34 | Hurrian | (P.S.: It works with Ubuntu 11.10, last I tried.) |
| 15:58.35 | Macer | or does it HAVE to run windows? |
| 15:58.37 | Macer | oh |
| 15:58.38 | Macer | heh |
| 15:59.00 | Macer | more like 635 |
| 15:59.03 | Macer | after shipping |
| 15:59.04 | Hurrian | Getting into the BIOS and messing with it is a bitch though. |
| 15:59.23 | Macer | is it in japanese? :) |
| 15:59.48 | Drathir | sad that x86 and x64 cpus cant shutdown and start fast and systems can works on the fly with arm and 86/64 cpus will be good to place on motherboard arm core and system start in hybrid mode arm+cpu86or64 and when booted up if not used turn off cpu and still works on arm core low power when need more power that arm can give turn on cpu dynamically... |
| 16:00.01 | Hurrian | Nah, it's the english InsydeH2O-based BIOS. |
| 16:00.29 | ShadowJK | olpc had quick start/stop |
| 16:00.35 | Macer | you try putting win8 on it? :) |
| 16:00.36 | Hurrian | Drathir: That'll require some crazy fat binary fuckery. |
| 16:00.38 | thedead1440 | Hurrian: I felt such hybrid devices would take-off but it seems nobody is interested especially due to x86's power consumption |
| 16:00.41 | ShadowJK | but used open hw so they could fix bios |
| 16:00.54 | Macer | thedead1440: i'd say due to production cost |
| 16:01.03 | Macer | when the cattle are satisfied with arm based crap iphones |
| 16:01.06 | Macer | why make something good? |
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| 16:01.29 | Hurrian | Macer: Once I get in a cold enough environment to run it at 1.2GHz, I'll get it to Win8 |
| 16:01.36 | Drathir | docomo can run lineage2 on their phones lol |
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| 16:01.40 | Macer | in a cold enough environment? |
| 16:01.45 | Macer | you said it has a fan? |
| 16:01.51 | jacekowski | thedead1440: intel atoms are very low power |
| 16:01.51 | Hurrian | No, it's passive. |
| 16:01.53 | jacekowski | thedead1440: 1-2W |
| 16:01.55 | Macer | wow really? |
| 16:02.02 | Macer | passive x86? is that even possible? |
| 16:02.04 | Drathir | that must have strong hardware |
| 16:02.07 | jacekowski | yes |
| 16:02.08 | Hurrian | Yep. Underclocked to 0.6GHz. |
| 16:02.12 | jacekowski | no |
| 16:02.14 | Macer | oooh |
| 16:02.18 | Macer | it's running at 600MHz?? |
| 16:02.21 | Macer | hahahaha!! |
| 16:02.26 | Macer | screw that |
| 16:02.26 | jacekowski | no |
| 16:02.33 | thedead1440 | jacekowski: but they require huge battery packs to function well right? |
| 16:02.34 | Macer | you underclocked it on purpose? |
| 16:02.37 | jacekowski | http://ark.intel.com/products/family/29035/Intel-Atom-Processor/mobile |
| 16:02.41 | jacekowski | thedead1440: no |
| 16:02.51 | Hurrian | Yes. 1.2GHz on the spec sheet is a joke, you know damned well it's gonna go full Fermi at that clock |
| 16:02.54 | jacekowski | most powerfull atom is 3W@1.5GHz |
| 16:02.57 | Hurrian | No, it's 0.6GHz from factory. |
| 16:03.18 | jacekowski | http://ark.intel.com/products/55663/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z670-512K-Cache-1_50-GHz |
| 16:03.26 | jacekowski | 1 core +HT |
| 16:03.49 | Macer | how did you get calls in ubuntu? |
| 16:04.04 | Hurrian | Macer: Calls don't work outside of Symbian mode. |
| 16:04.05 | thedead1440 | Macer: its Symbian phone + Win computer |
| 16:04.13 | Macer | wtf? lol |
| 16:04.17 | Hurrian | It's mega bizarre. |
| 16:04.18 | Macer | and do you have to reboot? |
| 16:04.21 | Macer | to get to symbian? |
| 16:04.33 | Hurrian | Yes, switching hibernates Symbian, and launches Windows. |
| 16:04.42 | Hurrian | Takes about 30 seconds. |
| 16:04.44 | mhoye | what |
| 16:04.44 | Macer | wow |
| 16:04.54 | Macer | nm then |
| 16:05.05 | Macer | i figured they had some windows app that was able to do the calling |
| 16:05.11 | Hurrian | ha, no. |
| 16:05.17 | Macer | and symbian mode was just for the "standby" moments |
| 16:05.26 | Macer | when you don't need it as a computer |
| 16:05.29 | Macer | that's totally lame |
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| 16:05.47 | Hurrian | tl;dr, they built a tiny netbook. |
| 16:05.50 | Macer | you're telling me they couldn't code a windows app to access the modem? :) |
| 16:06.14 | Hurrian | Macer, they couldn't code an app to properly access the uSD slot. |
| 16:06.24 | Macer | hahaha |
| 16:06.27 | Macer | ouch |
| 16:06.46 | Hurrian | The way you access the uSD card is you have a userspace program, that talks to Symbian, running inside a VM, to access the card. |
| 16:07.08 | Hurrian | That was so incredibly, mind-bending levels of stupid I don't even |
| 16:07.14 | Macer | why can't they use the same method to talk to symbian running inside a vm to access the modem? :) |
| 16:07.41 | Macer | yeah that sounds like it might slow things down a bit |
| 16:07.48 | Hurrian | No clue. It would've probably been another joke feature. |
| 16:07.55 | Macer | heh |
| 16:08.12 | Macer | yeah i figured they would have had like some quick switcher that ran symbian inside of a vm while in windows mode |
| 16:08.16 | Macer | what if you miss a phone call? :) |
| 16:08.19 | Drathir | Macer: have celeron passive a long time ago because fan broken :p |
| 16:08.47 | Macer | Drathir: heh.. yeah.. x86 cpus.. even slower ones don't take kindly to passive cooling without retarded types of heat sinks |
| 16:09.05 | Macer | Hurrian: can you even put it in your pocket or do you pull it out to a blue screen? |
| 16:10.19 | Macer | that thing does look pretty neat tho in concept |
| 16:10.35 | Macer | but no phone calls/txts/etc during windows mode makes it fail and not worthwhile heh |
| 16:12.49 | Drathir | i think the future belong to vm's |
| 16:14.06 | Drathir | somthing easy that can manage hardware and run vm and only that in this userspace customer can install all they want |
| 16:15.35 | Drathir | that will be good few os all running in the same time and can easy switch between them |
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| 16:24.01 | Drathir | btw how much place is given to n900 apps? |
| 16:24.59 | Drathir | i think all space is shared but looks like isnt... |
| 16:27.09 | jacekowski | 2G |
| 16:27.33 | jacekowski | it can be changed though |
| 16:27.48 | jacekowski | you just have to reflash modified emmc and fiasco |
| 16:27.57 | jacekowski | stock fiasco but modified emmc |
| 16:30.18 | Drathir | lol that say me cant install to low space |
| 16:30.25 | otypoks | :Drathir you want to see something like this https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/aios.htm ? |
| 16:30.26 | ShadowJK | 's laptop mostly runs passive cooling |
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| 16:33.50 | Drathir | jacekowski: thx a lot... |
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| 16:41.58 | Drathir | otypoks: O.o nice but where is arch logo ? ^^ |
| 16:46.57 | Drathir | otypoks: i like that idea must read more about it, because looks great thanks a lot... |
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| 16:48.48 | otypoks | np, its working on beagleboard so it should be possible to give it a try on n900 |
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| 17:03.55 | Drathir | for now its little scare for me that i can broke booting oryginal sstem |
| 17:04.08 | Drathir | system* |
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| 19:13.34 | lantizia | Hey, if people can run ubuntu on top of android using a chroot... what are the odd's I can copy the filesystem of my n900 over and run that in a chroot? |
| 19:14.25 | bef0rd | what ubuntu? |
| 19:14.36 | bef0rd | ubuntu desktop already works |
| 19:14.52 | bef0rd | ubuntu phone it probably requires some low services provided by android |
| 19:15.56 | lantizia | i'm not on about ubuntu phone or ubuntu touch |
| 19:16.24 | lantizia | i'm just citing that since running another linux based OS in a chroot on android has been found to work - then maybe it could work for maemo too |
| 19:16.28 | lantizia | e.g. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76149 |
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| 19:32.15 | bef0rd | lantizia: not sure if I understand you |
| 19:32.59 | bef0rd | lantizia: running other linux in a chroot has been working with maemo for a long time, there are packages, images, and everything is on TMO |
| 19:33.35 | lantizia | bef0rd, yeah you've clearly misread |
| 19:33.38 | bef0rd | lantizia: if you want to use a Maemo chroot on Android, I think qwazix or some other user was working on that |
| 19:33.49 | lantizia | ah yes that is what I mean |
| 19:34.03 | lantizia | qwazix, are you about maybe? |
| 19:34.11 | bef0rd | let me see if I rmember the thread |
| 19:34.36 | qwazix | lantizia, I only did one on N950, and that didn't work very well |
| 19:34.38 | lantizia | bef0rd, so it's different to the one I've already linked to? |
| 19:35.13 | lantizia | I also found this attempt... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=724151 |
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| 19:36.48 | bef0rd | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1314396&postcount=70 |
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| 19:46.13 | lantizia | bef0rd, well I've installed an X11 server on my android - so I'm hoping to get maemo to display there :D |
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| 19:46.38 | lantizia | maybe I'd be better whacking together a custom debian armel install that simple runs the GUI of maemo and is perhaps compaible with it's repo's? |
| 19:48.52 | bef0rd | I wouldnt know |
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| 20:09.45 | eccerr0r | hmm...where did the maemo5 SDK virtual machine images go? |
| 20:15.55 | eccerr0r | hmm probably right where they're supposed to be, minus slow network. |
| 20:20.33 | kerio | lantizia: probably, yes |
| 20:21.14 | kerio | maemo fremantle as it is, is highly dependent on a whole load of bullshit |
| 20:25.58 | kerio | i'm not entirely sure why you'd need the "ui" of maemo |
| 20:26.19 | kerio | i mean, you already have that, it's gtk and qt :) |
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| 22:07.29 | eccerr0r | top |
| 22:07.35 | eccerr0r | whoops wrong window |
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| 22:10.29 | raandoom | hello. is it possible to use *.svg icon for app? |
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| 22:13.41 | bef0rd | no |
| 22:13.56 | bef0rd | export is as png |
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| 22:28.16 | raandoom | and what maximum size of icon in fremantle menu? 48x48? |
| 22:30.27 | bef0rd | !google maemo wiki fremantle icon desktop |
| 22:30.32 | bef0rd | uhm |
| 22:31.01 | bef0rd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ#What_icon_size_should_be_used.3F |
| 22:32.06 | bef0rd | ~google developer faq site:wiki.maemo.org |
| 22:32.19 | bef0rd | fails at infobot |
| 22:39.01 | kerio | wtf, my clock was off a second, and i synced it this morning |
| 22:39.17 | ShadowJK | with gps? |
| 22:39.21 | kerio | ntpd |
| 22:39.24 | ShadowJK | oh. |
| 22:39.30 | ShadowJK | over gsm or 3g? |
| 22:39.33 | kerio | wifi |
| 22:39.41 | kerio | europe.pool.ntp.org |
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| 22:43.44 | bef0rd | just a second? :P |
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| 22:44.23 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 22:44.39 | kerio | fuck this, i'm running ntpd |
| 22:45.00 | kerio | why isn't there an anycast ntp server :( |
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| 22:45.24 | ShadowJK | 1.6 ms, 180ms, 0.17ms and -1.6ms offsets |
| 22:45.28 | ShadowJK | on my desktop :P |
| 22:45.29 | bef0rd | Martix: o/ hey |
| 22:45.33 | ShadowJK | anycast? |
| 22:46.00 | bef0rd | erm |
| 22:46.03 | bef0rd | M4rtinK: o/ hey |
| 22:46.25 | kerio | instead of having to rely on dns load balancing |
| 22:47.17 | kerio | especially because i'm not sure if busybox ntpd resolves the name more than once |
| 22:48.34 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: hi ! :) |
| 22:48.47 | M4rtinK | what can I help you with ? :) |
| 22:50.10 | bef0rd | hey, I saw that your Mieru app got approved for BB10, wanted to check if you had any step by step guide of the process |
| 22:51.35 | ShadowJK | kerio, even normal ntpd only resolves name at startp |
| 22:53.36 | kerio | that's bs :S |
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| 22:55.47 | ShadowJK | kerio, it used to never-again-query servers that were intermittently unavailable or unavailable at startup :-) |
| 22:55.56 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: just a barebones guide here: http://www.engcorp.com/pipermail/blackberry-python/2013/000023.html |
| 22:56.03 | ShadowJK | Basically, it never adjusted for dialup age.. |
| 22:56.13 | ShadowJK | And now it's 15 years later |
| 22:56.20 | ShadowJK | and it's only marginally improved. |
| 22:56.22 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: and a packaging example http://www.modrana.org/platforms/bb10/examples/mieru_example_1.0.zip |
| 22:56.29 | M4rtinK | which has ale the compiled libs |
| 22:56.30 | kerio | ShadowJK: hm, does getaddrbyname return *one* of the addresses, at random? |
| 22:56.42 | ShadowJK | The OpenBSD openntp is arguably worse in terms of the load it puts on servers, I heard. |
| 22:56.47 | ShadowJK | kerio, yes |
| 22:56.54 | kerio | ntpd -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org |
| 22:56.55 | kerio | :D |
| 22:57.09 | ShadowJK | try add my hostname too |
| 22:57.19 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: I'd like to eventually have a step by step guide for it |
| 22:57.19 | ShadowJK | should be s3 |
| 22:57.20 | kerio | ok to be fair there's <n>.europe.pool.ntp.org for that reason |
| 22:57.30 | ShadowJK | is actually st2 for some reason |
| 22:57.37 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: but I'm guide busy at the moment :) |
| 22:57.39 | bef0rd | M4rtinK: I see, is there any requirement besides the native sdk? |
| 22:57.40 | kerio | oh, you're in the pool? neat |
| 22:57.48 | kerio | thank you so much for your service <3 |
| 22:57.58 | ShadowJK | kerio, I'm not |
| 22:58.03 | kerio | </3 |
| 22:58.07 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: I think not |
| 22:58.14 | ShadowJK | kerio, but it's open anyway |
| 22:59.00 | bef0rd | M4rtinK: ok I'll git it a try maybe tonight, and if I get stuck on something I'll ask you, maybe I can help with the guide |
| 22:59.06 | bef0rd | give it* |
| 22:59.54 | ShadowJK | kerio, actually, now that I look at it, I sync against debian.pool.ntp.org... one of them happens to be st1 with gps ref |
| 23:00.07 | ShadowJK | 4 reachables |
| 23:00.16 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: that would be nice ! :) |
| 23:00.49 | ShadowJK | 0.566, -4.747, 11.611, -0.800 offsets |
| 23:00.50 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: just ask & I'll answer as best as I can :) |
| 23:00.58 | ShadowJK | -0.800 one is the st1 |
| 23:01.33 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: just note that I'll be on a conference on saturday & sunday, so I will probably not be on IRC too much |
| 23:01.56 | bef0rd | M4rtinK: ok, I'll ping you on twitter |
| 23:01.58 | bef0rd | :P |
| 23:02.17 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: BTW, some information fragments are also here: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/BB10 it is a bit outdated though :) |
| 23:02.22 | M4rtinK | bef0rd: :D |
| 23:03.22 | bef0rd | thanks |
| 23:04.00 | M4rtinK | I'm glad it will be of use to somebody else :) |
| 23:04.05 | kerio | ShadowJK: who decides the stratum? |
| 23:05.05 | ShadowJK | kerio, time source = 0, computer syncing to source = 1, computer syncing to computer syncing to source = 2, computer syncing to computer syncing to computer syncing to source = 4 |
| 23:05.10 | ShadowJK | err, 3 |
| 23:05.50 | kerio | wtf is a time source |
| 23:06.01 | kerio | wouldn't that be the higgs field or something |
| 23:06.03 | ShadowJK | Atomic clock |
| 23:06.12 | ShadowJK | Commonly, GPS |
| 23:06.32 | kerio | ShadowJK: how do they handle relativistic effects? |
| 23:06.47 | ShadowJK | Because GPS sats have atomic clocks, they transmit their time continously, and their clocks are constantly monitored and calibrated by the ground crews |
| 23:07.16 | ShadowJK | relativistic effects are accounted for in GPS system, without the accounting it'd be miles off, iirc |
| 23:08.04 | ShadowJK | The biggest problem is cheap gps receivers, you can't get accurate time from all of them |
| 23:08.37 | ShadowJK | but anyway, ntp was kinda designed in an age when the number of atomic clocks in the world could be counted on one hand |
| 23:08.49 | ShadowJK | and they weren't being broadcast |
| 23:08.56 | kerio | no, i meant that there's no such thing as synchronicity, if you want to be *really* precise |
| 23:08.58 | ShadowJK | So it was envisioned that you'd need a tree |
| 23:09.05 | ShadowJK | Um |
| 23:09.21 | ShadowJK | Well yes, time isn't accurate :-) |
| 23:09.47 | kerio | how do you start an atomic clock? |
| 23:10.05 | kerio | getting the initial time from another atomic clock? |
| 23:11.38 | ShadowJK | As far as I understand it, international atomic time is based on several atomic clocks averaged |
| 23:12.23 | kerio | i see |
| 23:12.30 | ShadowJK | They don't run the same exact speed, because they might be higher altitude or lower altitude relative to eachother, or the earth's density where they are might not be same as at the other clocks |
| 23:13.01 | ShadowJK | Even if we had 100% accurate machines, the basic fact is that time doesn't run at the same speed everywhere |
| 23:14.12 | ShadowJK | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time |
| 23:16.21 | ShadowJK | Isn't it cute how there's an organization with the job of comparing atomic clock data from the past, and determine what the correct time was, in the past |
| 23:16.50 | kerio | ShadowJK: meh, UTC+35s |
| 23:17.30 | ShadowJK | "In the 1970s, it became clear that the clocks participating in TAI were ticking at different rates due to gravitational time dilation, and the combined TAI scale therefore corresponded to an average of the altitudes of the various clocks." |
| 23:17.58 | ShadowJK | "corrections were applied to the output of all participating clocks, so that TAI would correspond to proper time at mean sea level (the geoid). Because the clocks had been on average well above sea level, this meant that TAI slowed down, by about 10−12" |
| 23:18.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: lattitude |
| 23:18.37 | kerio | altitude too |
| 23:18.48 | ShadowJK | Yeah |
| 23:18.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | distance to axis, circumference veocity |
| 23:18.59 | ShadowJK | Flattened sphere thing |
| 23:19.04 | kerio | gravitational time dilation, higher = less gravity |
| 23:19.43 | ShadowJK | Everyone thinks of time as something absolute |
| 23:19.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: highly irrelevant compared to different relative spped due to differing latitude |
| 23:19.51 | ShadowJK | But time isn't absolute |
| 23:21.05 | kerio | ooh, maybe the time desync was caused from the difference in gravity from the couch to the desk |
| 23:21.27 | kerio | you know, because IT LOST ONE SECOND AND A HALF in just a day |
| 23:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: at equator a clock is moving with relative speed of almost 2000km/h while at poles it's zero |
| 23:22.17 | ShadowJK | kerio, in your case it's probably thermal gradient :D |
| 23:22.28 | ShadowJK | or like |
| 23:22.45 | ShadowJK | if your initial sync was with ntpdate, all you got was a one-time sync |
| 23:22.56 | ShadowJK | It didn't try to adjust the speed of your local clock |
| 23:23.25 | ShadowJK | ntpd does this, adjusts speed of clock and then only polls once per 1024s |
| 23:25.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, you're not talking about 11min mode I gather |
| 23:26.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | where ntpd adjusts ummmm RTC after sysclosk? or the other way round? every 11min |
| 23:27.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | some funny detauls regarding that stuff with adjusting clocks can be found in munin |
| 23:27.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | details* |
| 23:27.34 | ShadowJK | I don't know about rtc, talking about where it adjusts speed of sysclock |
| 23:30.11 | ShadowJK | All I know is that without ntpd, you need to run hwclock manually with some adjtimex thing.. |
| 23:30.26 | ShadowJK | And if you run ntpd you better not touch hwclock program :-) |
| 23:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 23:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ntpd is weird stuff |
| 23:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you try to *really* understand what they do in there |
| 23:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | calculate ping times and whatnot |
| 23:33.40 | ShadowJK | I used to know this stuff back when I actively used a NSLU2. Its clock was off by about 40% by default :-) |
| 23:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it comes to milliseconds accuracy, it starts getting funny |
| 23:34.15 | ShadowJK | Had to set it manually to something vaguely closer to real rate before ntpd would engage |
| 23:34.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's an NSLU2? |
| 23:34.29 | ShadowJK | Linksys Network Storage Link USB2 |
| 23:34.31 | ShadowJK | or something |
| 23:34.40 | ShadowJK | ARM, 2 USB ports, Ethernet. |
| 23:34.50 | ShadowJK | Attach harddrives to USB |
| 23:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 23:35.08 | ShadowJK | Excellent custom firmware support |
| 23:35.21 | ShadowJK | Better than some current stuff. |
| 23:36.02 | ShadowJK | Mine died, and I couldn't find new ones. They seem to be acuirable in sweden still though, and very popular with HAMs. |
| 23:36.21 | ShadowJK | For running APRS in weirdest locations |
| 23:36.42 | ShadowJK | Helps that the board is small enough |
| 23:37.05 | ShadowJK | The USB is quite reliable, more reliable than my modern stuff including PCs :( |
| 23:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | just recalls a user of vaguely similar name, probably a logbot |
| 23:37.27 | ShadowJK | ya |
| 23:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | nslu2-log: help |
| 23:38.08 | ShadowJK | All properties that make it excellent at being thrown into a small plastic box mounted high up in an antenna mast |
| 23:39.39 | *** join/#maemo MekkisScreen (~vpsirc@nl.ti4200.info) |
| 23:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and heads out for a beer. Something last done so long ago that memory fails |
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