| 00:00.12 | eccerr0r | I do cook (electric) and electric dryer. |
| 00:00.17 | SpeedEvil | depends on the sort |
| 00:00.22 | eccerr0r | but furnace and HWH is gas. |
| 00:00.44 | joga | I run one computer 24/7 and a couple of others maybe most of the day |
| 00:01.18 | SpeedEvil | my server is a raspberry π |
| 00:01.19 | joga | it's a laptop with a busted screen though so it doesn't draw that much |
| 00:01.37 | joga | ah, I've one of those too but unfortunately not enough mem for around 100 users heh |
| 00:01.42 | eccerr0r | hmm... actually one of my computers uses around 90KWh/month |
| 00:01.51 | joga | or, maybe could do with it but not that well |
| 00:01.53 | SpeedEvil | I would recommend you get a plug in power meter |
| 00:02.08 | SpeedEvil | then go round all your appliances, plugging it in for a day |
| 00:02.28 | eccerr0r | I can't measure my dryer and stove. but I have decent estimates of my computers already... |
| 00:02.55 | eccerr0r | (and don't have a power meter... just a guesstimate with a multimeter) |
| 00:03.55 | eccerr0r | oh... and dishwasher... but usually do not use the heater in that so it's not nearly as bad. |
| 00:04.20 | eccerr0r | just that the duty cycle of the dryer is fairly low. |
| 00:04.37 | eccerr0r | same with microwave and stove... I really don't know. |
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| 00:12.53 | eccerr0r | if they sold electricity in 10KWh chunks, use or lose, I'd have to go buy a big battery bank to store energy for the summer... |
| 00:18.09 | MrOpposite | Argh |
| 00:18.25 | MrOpposite | WHY do google have 2 different API's for tasks and calendars? |
| 00:18.56 | MrOpposite | and by that, I mean REALLY different API's |
| 00:19.29 | Pali | MrOpposite, for calendar(s) google has standard caldav (webdav) API |
| 00:19.55 | MrOpposite | Pali, yeah, and there are plenty of applications for maemo to sync with google calendar |
| 00:20.07 | Pali | but for unknown reasons tasks are not available in google caldav :-( |
| 00:20.20 | MrOpposite | I'm currently trying to modify erminig to include tasks |
| 00:20.32 | Pali | MrOpposite, use syncevolution |
| 00:20.36 | qwazix | AIUI there's no standard for syncing tasks apart from exchange |
| 00:20.47 | qwazix | or maybe SyncML |
| 00:20.53 | Pali | syncevolution has support for caldav |
| 00:20.58 | MrOpposite | Hmm |
| 00:21.05 | qwazix | and Google didn't even have a tasks api till recently |
| 00:21.06 | Pali | syncml is going turned off on google servers |
| 00:21.28 | qwazix | both syncml and activesync on google never supported tasks |
| 00:21.34 | MrOpposite | Pali, well, syncevolution still doesn't handle google tasks |
| 00:21.49 | Pali | yes, because of google... |
| 00:22.03 | MrOpposite | but maybe it's easier to develop a plugin that allows for tasks for syncevolution? |
| 00:22.35 | Pali | uff, I do not know, but maybe will be easier to develop application which will create caldav server |
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| 00:22.57 | Pali | webdav is extension to http protocol |
| 00:23.04 | MrOpposite | yeah, I know |
| 00:23.33 | MrOpposite | but I don't feel like developing applications that require 3rd party equipment |
| 00:23.36 | qwazix | If you just want task sync and not specifically google tasks you can try mooha server |
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| 00:24.12 | MrOpposite | I want my n900 to connect to google directly. |
| 00:24.14 | Pali | hm, is not there already application which simulating caldav server for google tasks? |
| 00:24.35 | MrOpposite | I want as few points of failures as possible |
| 00:24.51 | MrOpposite | if google fails, my calendar is inaccessable eitherway |
| 00:25.03 | MrOpposite | If my n900 fails, I won't have any use for the calendar on it anyway |
| 00:25.38 | MrOpposite | But if the 3rd party caldav server that connects to google fails, it will just be bad |
| 00:27.17 | qwazix | mooha server is a little php syncml server, doesn't connect to google, but you can sync tasks between devices. Prolly not what you want, but I haven't find anything better to sync tasks on N900. |
| 00:33.37 | Pali | MrOpposite, google tasks caldav "server" can be started on n900 |
| 00:33.57 | MrOpposite | hmm? |
| 00:37.33 | Pali | what about this? https://github.com/matthewbauer/caldav-to-gtasks |
| 00:39.38 | MrOpposite | Yeah, but if I still need another application for tasks, I could just as well use the same application for both tasks and the google calendar |
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| 01:35.25 | eccerr0r | Ohhh...kaayyyy... this is baffling, with the n900 totally empty, it refuses to charge with my d+- shorted test jig, but the AC10C charges fine... |
| 01:38.16 | eccerr0r | the AC10C is running at 5.68mA at 120V ...that's way too low |
| 01:39.39 | eccerr0r | well, let it sit for a bit, maybe it will pick up the pace in a bit... |
| 01:40.09 | eccerr0r | need to figure out why it would not charge with the test jig... |
| 01:43.02 | eccerr0r | I need to see the 120VAC jump to around 30-40 mA minimum I would hope... |
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| 01:46.08 | SpeedEvil | odd |
| 01:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 01:49.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) 40*120??? b) I honestly doubt your meter is properly measuring the extremely non-ohmish input current such a SMPS is drawing from mains |
| 01:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~5.68 * 120 |
| 01:50.22 | infobot | 681.6 |
| 01:51.59 | eccerr0r | yes PF could be an issue but it wasn't that far off when measuring another SMPS with a resistive load |
| 01:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | * 0.85 (efficiency of charger) * 1.5 (inaccuracy of your meter for the imaginary component of mains current) |
| 01:52.31 | eccerr0r | either way, if you convert that to 5V, that's way less than 800mA |
| 01:52.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | * 0.85 (efficiency of charger) * 2.4711 (inaccuracy of your meter for the imaginary component of mains current) |
| 01:53.12 | MrOpposite | WOOHOO! |
| 01:54.09 | MrOpposite | I just got my tasks from google |
| 01:54.22 | MrOpposite | now... let's put them into my n900 shall we? |
| 01:54.48 | eccerr0r | even at 2.4711 (which has to have been pulled out of a rear end) it's still way off 800mA secondary, indicating I'm not charging quickly at all... |
| 01:55.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like "YAY, I tasted the whip from my mistress" |
| 01:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* |
| 01:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~5.68 * 120 * 0.85 * 2.4711 |
| 01:56.03 | infobot | 1431.656496 |
| 01:56.28 | eccerr0r | that's now milliwatts |
| 01:56.32 | eccerr0r | convert that to amperes |
| 01:56.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | BS |
| 01:56.40 | MrOpposite | "Seems like I'm not charging, quickly at all... quickly at all... quickly at all..." "Stupid underpowered flanders" |
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| 01:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry, you might be right |
| 01:57.02 | eccerr0r | "might"??? |
| 01:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, get proper tools to investigate this. We adviced you which tools those are |
| 01:59.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your USB is broken, we can't help from remote |
| 01:59.49 | eccerr0r | if it charges at all, can the USB be broken? |
| 02:00.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can witness my device is charging fine from AC10, with more than 500mA |
| 02:00.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 02:00.47 | eccerr0r | what's it say on the killawatt? |
| 02:01.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | myhulbarb froddles |
| 02:07.14 | eccerr0r | nice that the ac10c is down to 0.31mA when it's disconnected from the n900... that's pretty good... not even 1mA |
| 02:08.48 | SpeedEvil | modern power adaptors can be a few dozen milliwatts idle |
| 02:11.48 | eccerr0r | yeah i've seen worse, this is the best one I've seen so far that I've measured |
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| 02:13.49 | eccerr0r | this battery charger SMPS brick is 1.4W... awful. |
| 02:14.04 | SpeedEvil | is pondeimg making a qi charger |
| 02:14.14 | SpeedEvil | they are ridonkulous prices. |
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| 02:22.34 | eccerr0r | WOAH |
| 02:23.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | qi charger? |
| 02:23.14 | eccerr0r | the battery died! didn't charge at all... plugged in another battery and back into the ac10c... now I got a peak of 15mA on 120V... |
| 02:23.20 | eccerr0r | hmm |
| 02:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 02:23.43 | eccerr0r | The usb port looks intact as far as I can tell though, it may be the only explanation |
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| 02:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | get bq27k-detail resp bq27200.sh |
| 02:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | get charge21.sh |
| 02:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is all handwaving |
| 02:25.49 | eccerr0r | now I can even see the power dropping and rising on the 120V AC meter when I turn the display on and off... |
| 02:26.23 | eccerr0r | this is utterly nonsense... |
| 02:26.34 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: it's a near field charger, in the 100-200khz range. and a dumb cw doesn't work. |
| 02:26.56 | eccerr0r | guess i'll have to charge this dead bl5j up a bit so it can power the n900 enough to allow charging |
| 02:27.26 | SpeedEvil | in near dead mode, it will only charge at 10ma or so |
| 02:28.40 | eccerr0r | the battery is at 3.3V, which is not too bad, should be safe to charge at full rate (but my external charge jig I was using for my broken 5230, won't go that high) |
| 02:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, you're assuming too much that's not based by facts. E.G N900 charges fine even with flat battery |
| 02:31.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't need power from battery to charge |
| 02:31.58 | eccerr0r | well, facts based on what's known, but not based on the problems I'm seeing... |
| 02:32.20 | eccerr0r | I had it plugged in and the unit still powered down...something is definitely wrong or flaky. |
| 02:32.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | xy? |
| 02:33.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | or do you now conclude from that observation that you need power from battery to charge battery? |
| 02:33.42 | SpeedEvil | it's not impossible for weird charging to be caused by a partially dead USB |
| 02:33.50 | SpeedEvil | in fact, common |
| 02:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | what I said |
| 02:33.59 | SpeedEvil | or cable, of course |
| 02:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | parasitary/phantom series R |
| 02:34.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | causing an over-all high-Z of charger |
| 02:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | all visible with charge21.sh |
| 02:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW: USB semi-broken |
| 02:37.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | either cable or plug or receptacle contacts or receptacle pins |
| 02:37.44 | eccerr0r | not sure where I saw it, might be misinformation on the web implying that it required cpu intervention to program the bq24150 |
| 02:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | same goes analog for D+/D- |
| 02:38.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's correct |
| 02:38.13 | eccerr0r | and the cpu is only poweredfrom the battery... |
| 02:38.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | but bq24150 doesn't need programming to charge |
| 02:38.30 | eccerr0r | well i hope that would be the case. |
| 02:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 02:38.34 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 02:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | emergency charging mode, independent of CPU |
| 02:44.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's one of the reasons why N900 has no OTG - the TP65950/twl4030 early silicon revisions didn't support flatbatrecover, so they had to change the charging or at very least the USB PHY |
| 02:45.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | which resulted in the drivers for OTG not working with the new hw |
| 02:45.36 | MrOpposite | flatbatrecover... hmm |
| 02:46.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | which in turn resulted in USB-cert not granting the "OTG" stamp |
| 02:46.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | which meant they hat to swap from micro-AB to micro-B receptacle |
| 02:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | had* |
| 02:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | which finally resulted in no more chance to ever get an OTG stamp, so they binned the drivers |
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| 02:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | (they also didn't even bothar anymore for OTG on circuit development, so the hw has some other roadblockers that make true OTG/hostmode impossible now) |
| 02:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly they didn't connect the ID pin to the new phy |
| 02:52.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the new PHY (1707) has no sw emu for ID pin |
| 02:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the MUSB-core in OMAP has no sw emu for true hostmode either, it needs a signal from PHY for that |
| 02:54.06 | SpeedEvil | hence nasty hacks |
| 02:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the new PHY has proper detection of D+/- short in hw, and a pin to drive the bq24150 into fastcharge mode and switch on steady amber on indicator LED |
| 02:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so with D+/- short the PHY and bq24150 can charge battery without any support from CPU |
| 02:57.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | (to 3.6V only [or somesuch] and only for 32 minutes, but that's usually enough to charge battery to a level where device can boot and continue charging under CPU control) |
| 02:59.06 | SpeedEvil | unless the battery is very old |
| 02:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 02:59.18 | SpeedEvil | when ESR can disrupt things |
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| 03:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | high ESR also can cause very fast end-of-charge so N900 wouldn't eat any more current from USB |
| 03:06.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite actual charge level of cell being pretty low and only sufficient for a few minutes maybe |
| 03:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | likewise high ESR will cause early shitdown during discharge, even when charge level of cell is not yet near 0% |
| 03:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | shutdown, but meh |
| 03:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | shit going down either way |
| 03:11.59 | eccerr0r | Status: 0x30 Mode: STANDBY Full: 0 Wall: 0 Voltage: 3569 NAC: 1911 level: 98 % Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950 Compensated: |
| 03:14.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: ^^^ |
| 03:14.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you stopped bme? |
| 03:15.03 | eccerr0r | fsck... wtf is going on with this... |
| 03:16.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you first must `stop bme` before you start charge21.sh |
| 03:16.13 | eccerr0r | ah. |
| 03:17.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you wait for longer than 30s after stopping bme, you might see steady amber since bq24150 watchdog resets the chip |
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| 03:18.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is basically the non-CPU mode, since bme==CPU for the bq |
| 03:18.59 | MrOpposite | Geez |
| 03:19.17 | MrOpposite | Is there any way to get dpkg-buildpackage on mameo? |
| 03:19.47 | MrOpposite | for some reason dpkg is stupid and doesn't realize that I have cross-compatible python scripts |
| 03:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, building on N900 isn't recommended |
| 03:20.01 | MrOpposite | Well |
| 03:20.10 | MrOpposite | I'm not building per-se |
| 03:20.15 | MrOpposite | I'm more or less packaging |
| 03:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | check tools repo then |
| 03:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be there |
| 03:21.15 | eccerr0r | That first line that says "Charger" means that the USB is connected? And why would it still say Wall:0 ? |
| 03:22.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wall:0 means "no D+- short detected" |
| 03:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 03:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what first line you mean |
| 03:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | also iirc "Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950" means that those guestimate calculations think the charger chip delivers 950mA yet battery gets discharged by 305mA, resulting in system obviously eating 1255mA |
| 03:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 950 from charger chip are bogus, probably |
| 03:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | they are deduced from status and a few other parameters |
| 03:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | NAC and level are obviously from a severely decalibrated bq27200 |
| 03:32.02 | teotwaki | Well this sucks. |
| 03:32.17 | teotwaki | I recently broke up with my ex. |
| 03:32.26 | teotwaki | There's a colleague I've been hanging out with. |
| 03:32.55 | teotwaki | I've been having fun reading her body language, and pushing her when I detect half truths. |
| 03:33.18 | teotwaki | Over the last week, every evening, we'd hang out after work, either at the office, or at her place. |
| 03:33.23 | teotwaki | Well, last month. |
| 03:34.16 | teotwaki | Turns out, while I've been pushing to get a stupid friends with benefits kinda thing, and she refused. |
| 03:34.38 | teotwaki | She wasn't refusing because she's married (getting divorced), or because we're colleagues. |
| 03:35.01 | teotwaki | But because she has way more feelings than she'd (or I) care for. |
| 03:35.16 | SpeedEvil | :-\ |
| 03:35.43 | teotwaki | That's the first time I'm the one stopping a friendship because of the feelings. |
| 03:35.48 | teotwaki | Fuck me, I just friend-zoned a chick! |
| 03:37.27 | MrOpposite | okay |
| 03:37.38 | MrOpposite | 4:30 AM |
| 03:37.41 | MrOpposite | Time to sleep |
| 03:37.48 | teotwaki | Yeah, I'm going to leave the office as well |
| 03:37.55 | teotwaki | 4:30 is pretty ridiculous on a Sunday morning. |
| 03:38.14 | MrOpposite | yeah :P |
| 03:38.18 | MrOpposite | anyway gnite! |
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| 03:39.49 | eccerr0r | wonder if my bq24150(is it?) or bq27200 or whatever chip it is in the n900 is fried... seems like it is really confused? |
| 03:41.09 | SpeedEvil | it may well be the us. co. sector |
| 03:41.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | try bme with "bq27200.sh 5" |
| 03:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge21.sh can be confusing |
| 03:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: though i'd not be surprised if you'd actually had fried the bq24150 with your "if I increase voltahe above 5V, it draws more current" experiments |
| 03:43.48 | eccerr0r | well if I hadn't been having problem with it to begin with... |
| 03:44.33 | eccerr0r | the bq24150 datasheet says vbus can take up to 10.5V indefinitely (but wont charge) and higher but not forever... |
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| 04:04.15 | eccerr0r | hmm maybe I have to just live with sloooow charging... :( |
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| 04:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | eccerr0r: yes, bq24150 is quite ruggedized |
| 04:10.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | not so the twl4030 that detects vbus |
| 04:10.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the 1707 PHY |
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| 05:05.06 | eccerr0r | oh nice...found the service manuals... |
| 05:05.27 | eccerr0r | not that it would necessarily help but it has some interesting info on them... |
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| 09:19.36 | nomeata | Hi. tablets-dev.nokia.com/ seems to be down – is that temporary or permanently? Are there alternative sources for the OS images? |
| 09:22.46 | kerio | ~skeiron |
| 09:22.46 | infobot | it has been said that skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 |
| 09:23.20 | nomeata | thx |
| 09:24.12 | nomeata | What do you think – is there still a market for a N770 on ebay? Mine has been lying around in a drawer for a few years too many by now. |
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| 09:32.27 | kerio | eeh, idk |
| 09:32.40 | kerio | i wouldn't buy it |
| 09:32.45 | kerio | but maybe some collector... |
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| 09:38.25 | nomeata | I guess its worth a try. Too nice a device to just throw it away |
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| 10:00.21 | sobukus | nomeata: well, I recently bougt a maemo tablet off ebay; wanted to hack it into a music box (using my custom programs) |
| 10:00.55 | sobukus | nomeata: but it's a n800, not n770 |
| 10:01.22 | sobukus | and I only thought it viable because of the two sdhc slots |
| 10:01.48 | sobukus | paid 20 € (though, it was labelled as defect because of a broken linux install) |
| 10:02.29 | sobukus | I don't think you'll get much more than that for a n770 ... unless lucky, of course. |
| 10:02.37 | nomeata | still, its worth a try |
| 10:02.48 | sobukus | In any case better than throwing away! |
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| 10:03.35 | sobukus | I might still try to sell my E90 to some affectinate person. I still miss the proper keyboard of the device, but the S60 OS sucks too much:-( |
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| 10:07.47 | sixwheeledbeast | there's an n770 on ebay us has 2 bids and 5 days to go. this would give you a indication of how much it's worth. |
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| 10:11.34 | nomeata | sixwheeledbeast: that on what country? |
| 10:11.48 | sixwheeledbeast | ebay US |
| 10:12.32 | sixwheeledbeast | nomeata: also one BNIB for 149 bucks no bids |
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| 10:35.14 | kerio | sixwheeledbeast: holy crap, 150$ is how much you'd pay for a mint condition n900 |
| 10:35.39 | sixwheeledbeast | kerio: hence no bids... |
| 10:37.57 | sixwheeledbeast | http://bit.ly/XhHAac |
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| 10:59.00 | nomeata | If you are in germany and want a n770: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111014036610 |
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| 11:23.08 | freemangordon | guys, need some QML help: How to change items DEFAULT background color, or "theme" color. |
| 11:23.34 | freemangordon | Not sure if it is QML or general Qt though |
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| 11:25.46 | freemangordon | It seems no matter what I set (stuff like Qt::WA_NoSystemBackground and Qt::WA_OpaquePaintEvent), the underlying GTK widget still paints its background |
| 11:27.40 | freemangordon | or at least when I change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc, it affects what is painted as background. NFC if it is GTK or QDeclarativeSomething that paints it though :) |
| 11:29.39 | freemangordon | setting autoFillBackground to false also does not work |
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| 12:00.49 | trx | freemangordon http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-theme.html |
| 12:01.30 | trx | freemangordon what do you mean by "the underlying GTK widget"? |
| 12:01.38 | freemangordon | trx: fremantle here ;) |
| 12:01.48 | trx | oh, right :) |
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| 12:30.16 | qwazix | freemangordon, you're trying to get a transparent QDeclarativeItem? |
| 12:30.53 | qwazix | I tried a lot to do that but didn't find a way... |
| 12:30.55 | freemangordon | qwazix: no, I am trying to change that color from black to something else, see #embedlite :) |
| 12:31.46 | freemangordon | the only way I found so far is to change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc :D |
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| 12:32.32 | freemangordon | qwazix: have in mind we talk about 5-8 fps for embedlite ;) |
| 12:33.04 | trx | freemangordon how do you show the gtk widget in QML? |
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| 12:33.42 | trx | you draw its pixmap onto QDeclarativeItem? |
| 12:33.57 | freemangordon | trx: I show nothing GTK, it is Qt that shows something |
| 12:34.21 | freemangordon | with black background, which is overpainted by the stuff |
| 12:34.47 | freemangordon | trx: BTW toplevel widget is QGLWidget |
| 12:35.12 | qwazix | freemangordon, ok, just let me read the backscroll |
| 12:35.24 | freemangordon | ok |
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| 12:36.46 | freemangordon | trx: the sourcecode https://github.com/tmeshkova/qmlmozbrowser |
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| 12:37.10 | freemangordon | trx: again, it is QWS_MAEMO_5 |
| 12:37.14 | freemangordon | :) |
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| 12:37.23 | trx | i'll have a lool |
| 12:37.26 | trx | look |
| 12:37.31 | kerio | i'll have a lol |
| 12:37.40 | kerio | lol! |
| 12:37.46 | trx | ;)() |
| 12:37.48 | trx | damn |
| 12:37.54 | trx | not my day |
| 12:38.04 | kerio | that's a ;) with a fat belly |
| 12:38.09 | trx | i guess so :) |
| 12:38.09 | freemangordon | :D |
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| 12:41.08 | MohammadAG | freemangordon, set a Qt stylesheet? |
| 12:41.28 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: did that, but with no use :) |
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| 12:41.42 | trx | stylesheets work only with QWidget afaik |
| 12:41.43 | MohammadAG | can you post a screenshot? |
| 12:41.51 | MohammadAG | QGLWidget is a QWidget |
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| 12:42.11 | freemangordon | black remains black, no matter app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); |
| 12:42.23 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: screenshot of a black screen? |
| 12:42.52 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: just turn your n900's screen off :P |
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| 12:43.09 | MohammadAG | hmm, you're right, it IS black |
| 12:43.55 | MohammadAG | but I don't get what's black |
| 12:44.07 | MohammadAG | if it's in QML, gtk shouldn't have anything to do with the app |
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| 12:44.54 | MohammadAG | for future reference, moz (pronounced like more with a z) means banana in arabic |
| 12:45.47 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: I hve NFC who paints that in QLM, but it uses GTK background color |
| 12:45.52 | freemangordon | *QML |
| 12:46.08 | MohammadAG | so it's a QML Item? |
| 12:46.18 | freemangordon | yes |
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| 12:46.42 | freemangordon | but it's subclassed and all painting disabled |
| 12:46.45 | goldkatze | Hi |
| 12:46.58 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: it is either qdeclarativeview or qglwidget |
| 12:47.09 | freemangordon | that paints that background |
| 12:49.15 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: doiing app->setPallete(...) does not help either |
| 12:49.19 | freemangordon | *doing |
| 12:50.24 | MohammadAG | I wonder if subclassing paintEvent would help |
| 12:50.34 | MohammadAG | s/subclassing/overriding |
| 12:51.50 | trx | and then drawing manualy? |
| 12:52.22 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: which class' paint event? |
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| 12:52.36 | freemangordon | qglwidget? |
| 12:52.49 | MohammadAG | trx, no, just changing the brush colour I guess |
| 12:53.05 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure, that's why I said I wonder :P |
| 12:53.10 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: that works, but it paints over the initial black |
| 12:53.15 | freemangordon | :D |
| 12:53.25 | freemangordon | which is not what I want |
| 12:53.26 | MohammadAG | but afaik QDeclarativeView inherits QGLWidget no? |
| 12:53.36 | freemangordon | no |
| 12:53.47 | trx | no, QGrphicsView |
| 12:53.48 | freemangordon | you set view widget |
| 12:53.49 | MohammadAG | freemangordon, then it's not QGLWidget painting the black :P |
| 12:54.38 | freemangordon | MohammadAG: yes, most probably not. though qdeclarative view installs event filter on qglwidget, and maybe sets some glClearColor |
| 12:57.17 | raandoom | freemangordon maybe i dont understand you right, but when i had my painting always black, i change colorrole of the brush and all works fine |
| 12:57.26 | qwazix | this doesn't seem right: app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); Maybe widget->setStylesheet(" . . . ") where widget is your QDeclarativeItem |
| 12:58.17 | freemangordon | sure, that works, but it paints the color OVER the black background, so initial black painting is still there |
| 12:58.36 | freemangordon | raandoom: ^^^ |
| 12:58.53 | freemangordon | so it results in scrolling fps drop |
| 12:59.07 | freemangordon | from 40-45 to 35 |
| 12:59.14 | freemangordon | as it is painted on every frame |
| 12:59.35 | freemangordon | raandoom: maybe I don;t use the correct brush though |
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| 13:04.13 | freemangordon | qwazix: which is the top-level widget in an QML app? |
| 13:04.26 | freemangordon | *a |
| 13:04.33 | qwazix | QDeclarativeView |
| 13:05.15 | trx | freemangordon try painting on QDeclarativeView and not GLWidget |
| 13:05.32 | trx | also, have you experimented with QGraphicsItem::ItemCoordinateCache? |
| 13:05.55 | qwazix | It doesn't *have* to be. You can perfectly use a QDeclarativeView just like any other widget. |
| 13:06.04 | trx | it lowered fps in my app |
| 13:06.13 | qwazix | (I.e. mixed qtwidget and qml) |
| 13:06.21 | freemangordon | trx: the painting is not in qglwidget, qglwidget is just the viewport |
| 13:06.31 | freemangordon | (or whatever it is called) |
| 13:12.51 | Macer | watching the chealsea game and i don't even watch soccer |
| 13:14.17 | Macer | chelsea just scored |
| 13:17.29 | raandoom | soccer? why not football? :) |
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| 13:23.49 | sobukus | wonders why he seemed to access ALSA output some time ago and not anymore, only via esd |
| 13:24.30 | sobukus | Is there a trick on OS2008 to access audio output via ALSA? I read that the theremin application does that for low latency. |
| 13:25.50 | sobukus | Needless to day, the theremin does not work for me ... which might mean I broke something with my setup? |
| 13:26.07 | muelli | Can I increase the font size for the address book? I can barely read things i.e. when I'm walking. So only increasing the size of the phone numbers would be in my interest. |
| 13:26.19 | freemangordon | qwazix, MohammadAG: |
| 13:26.22 | freemangordon | QPalette pal; |
| 13:26.25 | freemangordon | pal.setColor(view->backgroundRole(),QColor(Qt::blue)); |
| 13:26.28 | freemangordon | view->setPalette(pal); |
| 13:26.31 | freemangordon | :D:D:D |
| 13:27.08 | qwazix | yay! |
| 13:27.34 | freemangordon | qwazix: so, we are ready to go |
| 13:28.16 | freemangordon | qube renders with 40 fps, background is blue :) |
| 13:28.25 | qwazix | I'm setting right now fremantle sbox from scratch, I should be good to go in a while too |
| 13:28.26 | freemangordon | *cube |
| 13:29.05 | freemangordon | nice, i'm going to try to change that in runtime, depending on the page background color |
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| 13:29.42 | qwazix | And what if the page has an image as background? |
| 13:30.01 | freemangordon | no idea :D |
| 13:30.15 | freemangordon | oh, wait, gecko wil render it |
| 13:30.38 | freemangordon | this is the color that will be shown while the contents is still not rendered |
| 13:31.06 | Macer | raandoom: real football is over :-P |
| 13:31.21 | Macer | we call EU football soccer in the US |
| 13:31.28 | Macer | just like we use imperial measurements |
| 13:31.33 | Macer | heh |
| 13:31.37 | Macer | chelsea is up 2-0 now |
| 13:31.48 | qwazix | freemangordon, so why not just paint it gray? |
| 13:32.04 | freemangordon | why not :D |
| 13:32.13 | qwazix | It doesn't have to imitate the page background |
| 13:32.33 | freemangordon | qwazix: i'll do it smart, count on me |
| 13:33.38 | raandoom | Macer i thought that 'soccer' is not popular in US :) |
| 13:34.02 | qwazix | I've no doubt :) |
| 13:35.48 | sobukus | suspects it's libasound2-1.0.14 instead of stock 1.0.10 |
| 13:36.43 | Macer | it isn't |
| 13:36.47 | Macer | there's nothing else on ;) |
| 13:37.34 | Macer | all of our major sports are in an off time... football is over, basketball is having its all star game today, and baseball is in the off season |
| 13:37.43 | Macer | hockey doesn't count as a major sport ;) |
| 13:43.22 | MohammadAG | freemangordon, I used that once, forgot the reason why, I guess that's why I didn't mention it :P |
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| 13:45.43 | topro_ | should not QAudioDeviceInfo::availableDevices(QAudio::AudioInput).size() always return >0 ? |
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| 13:50.24 | sixwheeledbeast | Macer: you can't call that football "real" football :P |
| 13:51.49 | Macer | heh |
| 13:52.03 | Macer | well.. we are arrogant americans |
| 13:52.10 | Macer | we will call our football whatever we want lol |
| 14:02.18 | sixwheeledbeast | yer and everyone else calls it american football :) |
| 14:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | imperial football |
| 14:04.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that's not even an empire thing |
| 14:04.22 | jon_y | standard football vs imperial football :) |
| 14:04.44 | sixwheeledbeast | metric football surely |
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| 14:04.55 | jon_y | :) |
| 14:05.19 | kerio | metric = standard |
| 14:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | SI football? |
| 14:05.53 | jon_y | hmm, how does score conversion work? |
| 14:06.19 | jon_y | 13.5 to 1 metric goal |
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| 14:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks a little since kmail1.9.10 is *totally* fubar |
| 14:07.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas kmail2 is also fubar |
| 14:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly who wants MySQL instead of maildir |
| 14:08.39 | jon_y | mysql on a phone? |
| 14:09.01 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: stop using kde, for crying out loud |
| 14:09.30 | kerio | you keep complaining about everything, it's clearly not a DE you like |
| 14:09.31 | jacekowski | KDE is great |
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| 14:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I like the integration into addressbook and whatnot else |
| 14:09.42 | kerio | jacekowski: is not |
| 14:09.46 | jacekowski | yes it is |
| 14:10.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and until "recently" kmail did a very nice job for me |
| 14:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kde4 however fubared everything |
| 14:12.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl the kde3-kmail available |
| 14:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | on my 3 year old "old" system I had a way more recent kmail1.9.xx version than available now on this "new" system |
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| 14:22.32 | Macer | lol |
| 14:22.53 | Macer | metric football lol |
| 14:23.43 | Macer | kde uses mysql for mail? |
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| 15:24.47 | WizardNumberNext | kernel timers again: I presume that frequency would have some infulence on granulity of timers. Does it? |
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| 15:50.48 | topro_ | WizardNumberNext: you are talking about kernel hz? i.e. 200? |
| 15:51.23 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: yes |
| 15:51.25 | WizardNumberNext | no, about biggest kernel timers resolution available |
| 15:51.32 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: unless you use hardware timers |
| 15:51.35 | WizardNumberNext | it was said 50ms |
| 15:52.21 | topro_ | with default kernel on n900 i experienced 50ms timer res. so I think the kernel hast 200HZ set |
| 15:52.22 | WizardNumberNext | so assume it would be 50ms for 500MHz. Would it be it say around 30-35ms for 850MHz? |
| 15:52.28 | topro_ | s/hast/has/ |
| 15:52.33 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: not at all |
| 15:53.03 | freemangordon | topro: iirc it is CONFIG_HZ=100 or 128 |
| 15:53.34 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HZ=200 would produce 5ms, not 50ms |
| 15:53.39 | topro_ | hmm, but that would not match my observation that i.e. gettimeofday returns values as multiple of 50ms |
| 15:53.57 | WizardNumberNext | topro - that is what I am talking about |
| 15:54.14 | teotwaki | because gettimeofday would have to rely on relatively standard features provided by the system. |
| 15:54.15 | freemangordon | afaik this is not highres timer |
| 15:54.26 | WizardNumberNext | exactly that one, but do you think frequency would have any impact on it? |
| 15:54.26 | freemangordon | teotwaki: :nod: |
| 15:54.34 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: no way |
| 15:54.40 | teotwaki | Doesn't mean that gtod is the way to get access to the high resolution timers. |
| 15:55.13 | topro_ | is there a high res timer with n900 default maemo kernel? |
| 15:55.25 | WizardNumberNext | freemangordon: explain. I do not understand why it won't have impact. What is reason? |
| 15:56.12 | freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: because core clock is not used for that purpose afaik |
| 15:56.21 | teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: I'm assuming the code is something along the lines of ticks = CPU_FREQ / 50000; which means you get x ticks before the counter is incremented. Also, this may be handled through the cpu governor. |
| 15:56.51 | freemangordon | topro: check what gstreamer uses |
| 15:57.00 | freemangordon | or PA, or something |
| 15:57.20 | topro_ | ok, i'll see |
| 15:57.50 | WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, then either 32kHz or clock for almost every external to SoC HW would be the refence? |
| 15:58.05 | freemangordon | I guess so |
| 15:58.28 | WizardNumberNext | I think that would oly thing which would make sense |
| 15:59.03 | freemangordon | iirc there are a couple of external clock sources |
| 15:59.13 | freemangordon | qhich one is used IDK |
| 15:59.16 | freemangordon | *which |
| 15:59.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | asking on #opensuse-kde for a user who built kdepim with kmail1.>9.x for suse12.1 -- duuuude are those suse kde devels a bunch of blockheads |
| 15:59.31 | topro_ | can I read kernel CONFIG_HZ used to compile kernel from running kernel, i.e. /proc or /sys? |
| 16:00.34 | WizardNumberNext | topro, yes but I think you have to load some module |
| 16:00.38 | WizardNumberNext | don't remeber name |
| 16:00.46 | WizardNumberNext | configs I pressume |
| 16:01.03 | WizardNumberNext | sth like this |
| 16:01.28 | WizardNumberNext | it would appear as /proc/configs.gz afair |
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| 16:06.03 | topro_ | it would be /proc/config.gz, but I can't find any module to load which would provide it |
| 16:06.37 | WizardNumberNext | configs |
| 16:06.41 | WizardNumberNext | I just did it |
| 16:07.17 | topro_ | 2.6.28-omap1 running here, no mudule named configs.ko |
| 16:07.28 | topro_ | module |
| 16:07.31 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_OMAP_32K_TIMER_HZ=128 |
| 16:08.32 | WizardNumberNext | there was some other way to get config in case of lack of config in boot and proc, but I cannot seem to remember |
| 16:10.52 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y |
| 16:10.53 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_NO_HZ=y |
| 16:10.55 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y |
| 16:10.56 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_GENERIC_CLOCKEVENTS_BUILD=y |
| 16:11.16 | WizardNumberNext | CONFIG_HZ=128 |
| 16:11.31 | WizardNumberNext | this is from kp51 |
| 16:11.36 | topro_ | so could it be that high-res timer has 50ms? |
| 16:11.53 | WizardNumberNext | who knows, that could be axplaination |
| 16:11.55 | topro_ | no, that makes no sens |
| 16:12.03 | WizardNumberNext | but then this not really hrt |
| 16:12.14 | topro_ | as highres would be worse than kernel-hz |
| 16:12.42 | WizardNumberNext | because because 128Hz is 7.8ms per cycle |
| 16:14.13 | WizardNumberNext | you should be able to see resolution of timers in proc somewhere |
| 16:16.12 | WizardNumberNext | hrt is reported to have resolution of 91553ns, if I get decription right |
| 16:17.21 | ShadowJK | how are you testing timer res? |
| 16:17.56 | WizardNumberNext | I am not, kernel reports that in /proc/timer_list |
| 16:20.13 | qwazix | what a pain is to install maemo sdk without the installers... |
| 16:20.37 | freemangordon | qwazix: just use vmware image |
| 16:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.37 | WizardNumberNext | for cpu |
| 16:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.53 | WizardNumberNext | see end of file |
| 16:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Clock Event Device: gp timer |
| 16:22.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:22.45 | WizardNumberNext | maybe gtod takes enough context to make it always 50ms? |
| 16:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:22.57 | WizardNumberNext | welcome to the club - same here |
| 16:23.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is GeneralPurpose |
| 16:23.37 | WizardNumberNext | but it is used as interrupt for hrt |
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| 16:23.58 | WizardNumberNext | I have no idea if 3430 have hrt by itself |
| 16:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why not |
| 16:24.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway: event_handler: hrtimer_interrupt |
| 16:24.37 | WizardNumberNext | linux are providing drivers for devices, which are created by SW |
| 16:25.11 | WizardNumberNext | but on the other side there is no other timer which have anything to do with hrt |
| 16:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder why this timer topic comes up reliably every other day |
| 16:26.03 | WizardNumberNext | where on both amd64 mb I have 3 hrt (each) and I can see them in /proc/timer_list |
| 16:26.27 | WizardNumberNext | I am just curious |
| 16:26.54 | WizardNumberNext | I like to know abilities and limitation of HW I use |
| 16:30.12 | WizardNumberNext | sorry 3 hpet on each MB and 1 hrt on each cpu core |
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| 17:09.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because it's unresolved |
| 17:09.49 | kerio | and i, for one, welcome our new timer overlords |
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| 17:30.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: what's unresolved? |
| 17:30.42 | kerio | the timing thing, or something |
| 17:30.45 | kerio | or was unresolved |
| 17:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather "or something" |
| 17:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it wasn't unresolved, it was a missing link to the right howto, if anything |
| 17:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | missing as in "I never bothered so I wasn't able to help" |
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| 18:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ kpim4.4 with kmail1.13, NO akonadi crap! FINALLY |
| 18:09.51 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 18:10.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hail and kudos to pheinlein |
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| 18:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://build.opensuse.org/package/binary?arch=x86_64&filename=kdepim4-4.4.10-8.149.x86_64.rpm&package=kdepim4&project=home%3Apheinlein&repository=openSUSE_Factory |
| 18:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | still has requirements of akonadi, but it seems the kmail part is not particularly feckered up by it |
| 18:19.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably just for allowing this kerry-beagle stuff |
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| 18:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | [personal notice] Good luck Ivan! Thanks for all the help in council and board! please visit as often as you can, we'll miss you badly |
| 18:29.07 | sixwheeledbeast | agreed, just been reading that. |
| 18:30.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what happened? |
| 18:30.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ivan steps down from council and board |
| 18:30.52 | kerio | "There's still a lot to do but I have absolute confidence in current Council and Board." |
| 18:30.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is... a disaster - for us |
| 18:30.54 | NIN101 | thx Ivan. |
| 18:31.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: indeed |
| 18:31.50 | qwazix | Another big thank you from me |
| 18:32.35 | Estel_ | what an unpredictable event, I've never seen that coming. BTW, the problem about administration "hiring" was solved? |
| 18:33.01 | kerio | Estel_: sidestepped, for now |
| 18:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is no administrators in maemo |
| 18:33.31 | teotwaki | link? |
| 18:33.52 | sixwheeledbeast | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1323480&postcount=1 |
| 18:33.56 | teotwaki | ta |
| 18:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: I tried to find 2013 in pipermal, but it seems borked |
| 18:33.59 | jacekowski | how's the OSUOSL thing working out? |
| 18:34.00 | kerio | isn't falk a sysadmin? |
| 18:34.13 | kerio | jacekowski: in all likelyhood, we'll use the free hosting from iphh |
| 18:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: falk is sysop |
| 18:34.56 | kerio | what's the difference? :o |
| 18:35.13 | kerio | jacekowski: warfare lives ~10 minutes away from the iphh datacenter |
| 18:35.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991, woody, chem|st all are maintainers |
| 18:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | administrator is ambiguous |
| 18:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a |
| 18:40.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I the heck should CC maemo-community ML on all those mails |
| 18:41.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely no reason to do that stuff begind the scenes |
| 18:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | behind, even |
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| 18:44.03 | teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: well finally one of you has grown a brain. |
| 18:44.16 | teotwaki | The amount of secrecy Maemo has been plagued with is ridiculous. |
| 18:44.28 | teotwaki | I've always said I never understood the private lists and such. |
| 18:45.00 | kerio | teotwaki: lawyers |
| 18:45.18 | teotwaki | I can understand there's a private forum for the moderators on tmo |
| 18:45.31 | teotwaki | because it is useful to have a place to discuss "I did this to this user, because he said this." |
| 18:45.43 | teotwaki | Because people aren't online at the same time, and actions aren't exactly transparent. |
| 18:47.10 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 18:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | same applies to sysops |
| 18:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have 2 irc channels for that |
| 18:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are even *some* things like early notice from ivan to council and board about him stepping down that for good (or at least understandable) reasons are not public |
| 18:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but stuff like http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a probably better gets discussed on a public forum tazher that a closed ML |
| 18:55.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather* |
| 18:56.05 | jacekowski | i think there is too much "paperwork" now |
| 18:56.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 18:56.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why the tech staff does virtually all on IRC |
| 18:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need persistent documentation for everyday business, we need short RTT |
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| 18:59.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | since our "protocol" is highly interactive |
| 18:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sending a mail is almost an insult ;-) |
| 18:59.37 | Estel_ | small question, as I'm sure someone did it already - I've switched to another GSM plan with limited minutes, as I use VoIP, most of the times. I would like to use my minutes from GSM plan, then, after that, call using voip only. I'm thinking about some semi-automatic solution, that would warn me when certain ammount of outgoing minutes have been spent (*not* including voip talking), or even without warning, just allowing me to check it wi |
| 18:59.37 | Estel_ | thout logging into my mobile provider EULA |
| 18:59.46 | Estel_ | anyone know such solution for N900? |
| 18:59.59 | Estel_ | of course for VoIP I use N900's native solution |
| 19:00.04 | Estel_ | thanks in advance |
| 19:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | mompls |
| 19:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1050432#post1050432 |
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| 19:03.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | will NOT cut an established call just because your free minutes expired during it |
| 19:04.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | calculation always done at end of call - you're free tp tweak the algorithm to switch when less than N free minures left over |
| 19:04.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/tp/to/ |
| 19:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ... |
| 19:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | am i online? |
| 19:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack |
| 19:05.47 | infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:06.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, i attribute it to manners then |
| 19:07.25 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: passive aggressive much? |
| 19:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, you consider expecting a thank-you agressive? |
| 19:09.13 | kerio | nah, but IRC is an async medium |
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| 20:06.24 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, thanks you. Ever considered, that people use bouncers and may be AFK at the moment? :) |
| 20:08.40 | Estel_ | You know, real life, kids, wife(s), the things that people tend to have in real life, which happens to people that are *not*incolved in maemo's politics |
| 20:09.01 | Estel_ | jokes aside, reading it |
| 20:09.04 | Estel_ | ~ping |
| 20:09.04 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 20:09.46 | *** mode/#maemo [+o teotwaki] by ChanServ |
| 20:10.07 | *** kick/#maemo [Estel_!~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie] by teotwaki (fuck off you douche. Really nice touch to insult everyone in the channel, and then call "humour" to try and defend you case. Fuckface.) |
| 20:10.12 | *** mode/#maemo [-o teotwaki] by teotwaki |
| 20:11.04 | teotwaki | s/u c/ur c/ |
| 20:13.09 | *** join/#maemo perlite (~perlite@114-36-231-175.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 20:16.37 | *** join/#maemo Estel_ (~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-) |
| 20:17.40 | Estel_ | You have been kicked from #maemo by teotwaki (fuck off you douche. Really nice touch to insult everyone in the channel, and then call "humour" to try and defend you case. Fuckface.) |
| 20:17.45 | Estel_ | "passive agression" :P |
| 20:18.03 | teotwaki | Well |
| 20:18.07 | teotwaki | I have to admit |
| 20:18.12 | teotwaki | No passivity there :) |
| 20:18.42 | ShadowJK | why do you have to do this |
| 20:19.06 | Estel_ | cmon, got a sense of humour. I'm sure not even DocScrutinizer05 was offended by that one, he jokes about no real life himself ;) keep your cool and calm down. |
| 20:20.52 | ShadowJK | I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny. I don't see anything funny or offensive or insulting until suddenly people are accusing people of being insulting and then people getting kicked |
| 20:21.03 | ShadowJK | could someone please explain what's going on? |
| 20:21.23 | kerio | ShadowJK: backscroll |
| 20:21.37 | ShadowJK | kerio; still not understanding or seeing |
| 20:22.38 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if we're talking serious for a moment, I'm so used to it in Maemo's reality for ~two years, that I totally stopped carrying, and got amused by teotwaki's rage outburst. Same for tmo and chemist - I think we must acknowledge that this is how maemo"community" look those days |
| 20:23.33 | ShadowJK | I do vaguely recall random rage outbursts before and then also had no clue what it was about. |
| 20:24.10 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (~philip@codeminded.be) |
| 20:24.20 | ShadowJK | And at those times when I asked for explanation, people got angrier and angrier, and refused to explain why :) |
| 20:24.43 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: Estel_ is a troll, who thinks he has a special bond with DocScrutinizer05 because they're both German. Somehow, in his deluded mind, the ops of #maemo have turned on him, while he was on the council. He was trying to get control over opdom in #maemo, and we kinda told him to fuck off. |
| 20:25.02 | kerio | teotwaki: Estel_ is not german |
| 20:25.11 | teotwaki | oh, my bad then. |
| 20:25.15 | Estel_ | tried to change that for a while, but decided, that I have better things to do, so either turn it into joke and keep doing own things without giving a f**k about this, or go away and screw thisd place, I decided to do 1st |
| 20:25.46 | ShadowJK | teotwaki; does it matter at all whether he thinks the ops have turned on him or not |
| 20:26.19 | teotwaki | Ever since, he's been calling us "operators gone rogue", because we wouldn't submit to his tantrums. #maemo has never been *under* the so called control of maemo.org. He abused his IRC cloak by keeping it to council long after his time on the council expired. |
| 20:26.27 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, if you're really interested, teotwaki felt "offended" by my two lines before kick occured, and decided, that he is entitled to abuse chanop again ;) |
| 20:26.41 | Estel_ | teotwaki, pack of bullshit |
| 20:26.45 | Estel_ | I never used irc cloak myself |
| 20:26.53 | Estel_ | someone else appointed it and took it away |
| 20:26.59 | teotwaki | Right. |
| 20:27.14 | ShadowJK | teotwaki; i don't know who is op or not, who is council or not, and who is cabal or not, who is nokia or not, ms or not, and should it matter at all? |
| 20:27.59 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~bef0rd@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 20:28.03 | Estel_ | for me, you're just childlish funny guy which just "happen" to have chanop, and tend to abuse it from time to time - nothing personal. You're just pathetic in your outrage burst, and it seem that even most calm and neutral people like ShadowJK are getting upset about it |
| 20:28.04 | ShadowJK | Two lines before? ping/pong? or your connectivity issues to your bouncer? or your wife/kids distracting you? huh. |
| 20:28.16 | Estel_ | not my buisness - just think about how pathetic you've become, pal. |
| 20:28.24 | Estel_ | wife/kids distracting, probably |
| 20:28.51 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: nope, I just know that doc's been having a rough time, and for some reason, Estel_ does get to him on occasion. I think it's my role to remove trolls, people who try to get to people, on purpose. |
| 20:28.55 | Estel_ | well, everything is good reason to kick somebody, ifyou don't like him personally |
| 20:29.13 | teotwaki | actually, you're the only person I've kicked in the past year, so yeah, probably :) |
| 20:29.17 | ShadowJK | Well I'd like to submit to the secret chanops, policy change to in the future not kick people that get distracted by family members :) |
| 20:29.46 | Estel_ | :) |
| 20:30.05 | teotwaki | I didn't ban him, I didn't disrupt an active conversation. I just reminded Estel_ of where the limits are. Could I have done it differently? Possibly. |
| 20:30.34 | ShadowJK | Although, if toddlers crawl over someone's keyboard, I guess kicking would be acceptable |
| 20:30.42 | ShadowJK | same for cats and dogs too |
| 20:30.46 | Estel_ | I get distracted by real life again, so feel free to kick *waves* |
| 20:31.36 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B492E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:32.52 | xes | sorry.... maybe i have missed something, but please explain me one thing. Which is the purpose that make people stay logged here? |
| 20:33.52 | NIN101 | Some keep maemo alive and want to support users or ask for help. Others troll. |
| 20:34.00 | ShadowJK | the purpose to make people stay logged? You mean channel logging? |
| 20:34.49 | ShadowJK | or are you asking what's the purpose to be in this channel? |
| 20:34.49 | xes | ShadowJK: logged on inside #maemo channel |
| 20:36.08 | ShadowJK | It's kinda strange anyway, estel has never appeared like a troll to me |
| 20:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: well, then you missed some really funny days during last year |
| 20:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I think nothing really happened, and nobody got anything to discuss. A kick is nothing more than somebody clapping hands in the forest, if you have autojoin odds are you don't even notice it. Move on everybody, nothing to see here |
| 20:40.01 | ShadowJK | bursts of random ragekicks like these make me feel sick and makes me want to close xchat every time they happen |
| 20:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: I am aware IRC is no realtime medium, but usually it's good practice when you ask something you wait at least 60s for an answer, since maybe others hurry to help you and it's disappointing when you do that for the bin |
| 20:41.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's well known TLAs for that, like |
| 20:41.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk |
| 20:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl |
| 20:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, according to my own rationale of some time ago, seconded by teotwaki, here's a copy to let you know about last news with server migration: http://privatepaste.com/fd824b1041 |
| 21:04.48 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, sure, I always *try* to stay for a while when asking about something - still, sometimes, things in RL demand immediate attention. Anyway, it's just thing of "people mean well", I suppose. While I agree nothing happened, I'm also a little saddended, that kicks etc become "clapping in the arm", especially, that as teotwaki said, he haven't used it on anyone else for years. Looks like personal to me (or personal problems a |
| 21:04.48 | Estel_ | t his side ;) ), which I wouldn't like to see on #maemo moderators. Well, it seems that "we" are no longer such respectful community, and here I agree totally with ShadowJK. Well, as good old stones used to sing, "you can't always get what you want" |
| 21:06.05 | Estel_ | ShadowJK, btw, acussing others of being "trolls" become kind of "trendy" in maemo community. You don't agree with someone, or don't like him, he is "troll" |
| 21:06.29 | Estel_ | gurus of one camp are trolls of another, and you have 2-3 such camps in maemo nowadays. Sad times. |
| 21:06.36 | jacekowski | no longer respectful? |
| 21:06.44 | Estel_ | back on track- I checked scripts, and they're great |
| 21:06.51 | jacekowski | i don't think it was ever respectful |
| 21:06.56 | Estel_ | I just wonder, if there is a chance to count mms's on N900, somehow |
| 21:07.06 | jacekowski | at least not in past 3-4 years i've been visiting this channel |
| 21:07.27 | Estel_ | I would gladly upgrade those scripts, as on many countries, 1 mms = 1 sms = 1 monute |
| 21:07.35 | Estel_ | s/monute/minute/ |
| 21:08.20 | Estel_ | and in 1 mms one can put more text than in tens of sms'es |
| 21:09.55 | Estel_ | sending mms require connecting to "special", custom access point |
| 21:10.01 | Estel_ | (GSM one) |
| 21:10.22 | Estel_ | counting such connections could be a way to count mms'es |
| 21:10.25 | Estel_ | any ideas? |
| 21:11.00 | Estel_ | (but connection is also made when mms is received, which is free) |
| 21:12.06 | eccerr0r | I was wanting AT&T to charge 1 minute for an SMS... |
| 21:12.53 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@host120-11-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:12.53 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 21:15.48 | Estel_ | well, in poland, it is 3 sms for minute. Or 2, don't remember. |
| 21:16.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need a hook into fmms for that |
| 21:16.05 | eccerr0r | that's VERY fair I wish that were the case everywhere |
| 21:16.16 | eccerr0r | stupid AT&T rips us off on SMS |
| 21:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing else will probably count mms and distinguish between in and out |
| 21:16.36 | eccerr0r | or probably "smart" ... they're making a killing |
| 21:17.53 | ShadowJK | hasn't tried fmms yet :) |
| 21:18.10 | eccerr0r | I haven't installed the mms extension onto my n900, what happens if someone sends me a mms? |
| 21:18.26 | ShadowJK | nothing |
| 21:18.32 | Estel_ | ffms wasn't updated for ages, I wonder how source code looks |
| 21:18.34 | eccerr0r | no notification or anything? |
| 21:18.48 | Estel_ | eccerr0r, if you have fmms installed, you just receive it |
| 21:18.51 | Estel_ | like sms or mail |
| 21:19.17 | Estel_ | N900 connects to mmc access point of your provider, witnout disrupting your current connections (so called "havoc" mode) |
| 21:19.26 | Estel_ | same when you send one |
| 21:19.41 | eccerr0r | I do not have fmms installed. I just notice when I use the email to sms gateway, if I send an email too long I get an mms instead |
| 21:19.58 | Estel_ | it's half-integrated to addressbook too, (you can send to contacts from addressbook, and they're named using data from addressbook too) |
| 21:20.22 | Estel_ | no clue about email to sms gateways |
| 21:20.36 | Estel_ | but without fmms you won't rexeive mms on N900 at all |
| 21:20.55 | Estel_ | BTW I would love if someone would fix splitting sms'es on N900 |
| 21:21.21 | Estel_ | when you use special chars, it automagically senda them using less optimized symbols table |
| 21:21.51 | Estel_ | so using single special, common character, you get 3x more sms'es send that it would be necessary |
| 21:22.38 | Estel_ | it just uses method of "if any special character, send sms using biggest codebase" |
| 21:22.53 | Estel_ | s/codebase/coding table/ |
| 21:23.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | if your device isn't registered at your carrier as mms-enabled, then you usually receive a SMS with a URL where you can download the MMs content |
| 21:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: that's how SMS are specified |
| 21:25.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | joining split SMS is not a standard nevertheless afaik, so all you could do is find out what's the set of methods to split that you want to support |
| 21:25.49 | eccerr0r | ah... Ok, I was hoping it would work that way,getting an sms that had a link to the mms content... but I should just install fmms |
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| 21:51.09 | Estel_ | there is problem with so-called wap-push sms'es on N900 though |
| 21:51.37 | Estel_ | at least, in whatever provider's service sms with link to downl.oad something, it never worked for me |
| 21:51.45 | Estel_ | only plain sms'es with url as text |
| 21:52.30 | Estel_ | I'm not sure if every carrier use same method for non-mms-compliant devices? or some use wap-push, which is supported by 99% of devices? |
| 21:52.53 | Estel_ | btw I wonder how mms achieve N900 registering as mms-compliant... |
| 21:54.09 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 22:03.12 | *** join/#maemo arcean_ (~arcean@aaem250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
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| 22:19.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | on O2 you select the type of phone you have, they deduce from that |
| 22:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually do that on your web-interface to your "account" |
| 22:20.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | you also fetch MMS there |
| 22:20.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you get that SMS with link |
| 22:21.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | since obviously you can't download via your phone's GPRS and when you use your PC and arbitrary internet connection you need some authentication |
| 22:26.42 | *** join/#maemo bennypr0fane (~ben@81.16.106.245) |
| 22:28.21 | bennypr0fane | hi, I noticed the "repos down" notification seems to have disappeared from TMO. Are the repos actually back up? If so, do the mirrors still work? |
| 22:28.40 | eccerr0r | cool fmms worked on receive... |
| 22:31.36 | eccerr0r | extras-devel still seems to have hash problems... fmms 1.3.3 pulled fine, 1.3.4 from devel puked |
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| 22:35.57 | jon_y | Estel_: try sending a blank mms to yourself |
| 22:36.14 | jon_y | my provider thinks n900 is a non-mms phone too |
| 22:36.41 | jon_y | had to send an empty mms to myself, after that, mms works |
| 22:37.37 | bennypr0fane | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88659&highlight=repositories the last update here, very short seems to say the repos are back up, but not stable |
| 22:38.05 | *** join/#maemo teotwaki (~teotwaki@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 22:39.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | bennypr0fane: repo.m.o is working since several days. and yes, the mirrors are still up |
| 22:40.44 | bennypr0fane | Cool. Is it correct that the mirrors are on status of december? so any updates made to apps since then are not in the mirrors? |
| 22:42.33 | bennypr0fane | also, should we stick to the mirrors until repo.m.o are perfectly fine, or is it ok to go back to repo.m.o? |
| 22:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | there been no updates to anything since this year, basically |
| 22:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you don't run into hashsum error, r.m.o is perfectly fine to use |
| 22:50.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for reminding me of "final update" |
| 22:56.00 | *** join/#maemo ArGGu^^ (~ArGGu^^@a88-112-164-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:08.19 | *** join/#maemo npm_ (~npm@cpe-198-72-183-90.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:18.28 | teotwaki | I'm going to have to side with jacekowski on this one. This channel has never been respectful, and it's definitely never been immune to abusive operators. Estel_, it sounds to me like you want this channel to be an echo of the love and peace we see on tmo and the MLs... Oh wait, there was never any love nor peace on either of those either!?! |
| 23:20.15 | teotwaki | But you know, who the fuck cares. I said I didn't want to be an op because I'd be abusive, but I was given op status anyway. If anyone wants to take it away, feel free. It's not like this channel actually needs ops anyway. It's dead. The community it fought for is dead. The product it fought for is dead. The company it fought for is dead. |
| 23:22.03 | teotwaki | But yeah, when I hear some geezer who's thrown so much shit at my and Doc's face in PMs and in public, even though I did really try to understand this guy, say that we're just a bunch of losers because we don't understand the concept of family matters? Well, piss off. |
| 23:23.00 | teotwaki | Next thing we know, he's going say things like we should be thrown in jail because we didn't fight for our countries, again. |
| 23:23.35 | jacekowski | few years back |
| 23:23.51 | jacekowski | only reason why i wanted an op status on any channel was just so i could be abusive to others |
| 23:24.17 | jacekowski | now i can be abusive to others in real life and i don't give about op status on IRC |
| 23:25.39 | teotwaki | jacekowski: we've had our differences, especially back in the day with lcuk. You pretty much thought I was an arrogant twat who was a poser on the liqbase project, I thought you had asperger's and needed to get laid. Was I ever abusive to you, and did I ever abuse my op powers against you? I don't think I ever truly was, but maybe Estel_'s right, and I do have a problem and suppress the parts of my behaviour I don't like. |
| 23:26.10 | teotwaki | (well, I know I was abusive to you when we chatted, but don't think I overreached on the banhammer) |
| 23:26.37 | jacekowski | to be honest, i think banhammer should have been used on this channel more often |
| 23:28.09 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 23:28.52 | jacekowski | but well, yeah, the community is pretty much dead, and maemo community has been well known to scare people off |
| 23:28.59 | jacekowski | esspecialy people that contributed the most |
| 23:29.43 | jacekowski | i'm surprised that there are still people that care about the servers and whole thing |
| 23:30.09 | jacekowski | if it were up to me i would just type shutdown -h now and left it at that |
| 23:31.58 | *** join/#maemo npm_ (~npm@cpe-198-72-183-90.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:33.54 | jacekowski | even if you take a look at https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=A |
| 23:33.56 | jacekowski | builder logs |
| 23:34.11 | jacekowski | you can see how little activity there is compared to year beafore |
| 23:34.13 | jacekowski | before* |
| 23:35.13 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: because the builder is broken :) |
| 23:35.24 | M4rtinK | since November |
| 23:35.42 | jacekowski | then compare october |
| 23:36.02 | M4rtinK | till December it was at least possible to scp packages |
| 23:36.11 | M4rtinK | but then it broke down completely |
| 23:36.26 | jacekowski | there is 5x as many builds in 2011 oct as in 2012 oct |
| 23:36.45 | M4rtinK | well, there ARE builds :) |
| 23:36.56 | jacekowski | in year it shrunk 5x |
| 23:37.01 | teotwaki | that's because between 2011 and 2012, we lost half the developers. |
| 23:37.15 | teotwaki | Android started getting worthwhile, and iOS brings the promise of making money. |
| 23:37.16 | M4rtinK | personally, so long I have at least a couple of users, I don't care :) |
| 23:37.19 | jacekowski | this year, other half will leave |
| 23:37.48 | M4rtinK | hell, I'm still supporting the Neo FreeRunner for the lone user who is still using modRana on it :) |
| 23:38.12 | jacekowski | there are no new devices running maemo |
| 23:38.18 | jacekowski | n900 hardware is shit by todays standards |
| 23:38.37 | jacekowski | and there will be new phones coming out with real linux |
| 23:38.41 | teotwaki | I'm still amazed that I managed to get over 300 people to install what was essentially a keylogger and email hijacker, for what was nothing more than an absolute shit app |
| 23:38.43 | jacekowski | (firefox os) |
| 23:38.43 | teotwaki | QA my arse. |
| 23:38.48 | M4rtinK | the only mobile PSX emulator other then Open Pandora :) |
| 23:39.05 | M4rtinK | with Game Gripper :) |
| 23:39.05 | jacekowski | openpandora is overpriced |
| 23:39.27 | teotwaki | You can run a full linux stack on the Nexus 7. |
| 23:39.37 | jacekowski | psp is now £100 on ebay |
| 23:39.38 | jacekowski | or less |
| 23:39.38 | teotwaki | For those who dreamt of NITs back in the day, the Nexus 7 is it. |
| 23:39.42 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: Ferefox OS != real Linux |
| 23:39.46 | jacekowski | and psvita is £200 |
| 23:39.47 | jacekowski | new |
| 23:40.05 | jacekowski | i was wrong, psp is £30 on ebay |
| 23:40.27 | M4rtinK | Firefox OS uses the Android kernel and driver to run a glorified browser |
| 23:40.37 | M4rtinK | thats all |
| 23:40.47 | M4rtinK | no native apps planned at all so far |
| 23:40.52 | M4rtinK | the same for Tizen |
| 23:41.20 | jacekowski | i thought firefox os was meant to be running real linux |
| 23:41.35 | M4rtinK | a Friend has seen it on FOSDEM (Firefox OS) and was unimpressed & it said it was quite slow |
| 23:41.54 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: unfortunately not |
| 23:41.57 | jacekowski | i've been to fosdem and i went past it |
| 23:42.07 | teotwaki | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUD7VeL90e4 |
| 23:42.08 | jacekowski | although, i've got few stickers from them |
| 23:42.26 | M4rtinK | they have platform code written in Javascript though :) |
| 23:42.31 | jacekowski | rotfl |
| 23:42.42 | jacekowski | that's main reason why firefox is shit and slow |
| 23:42.49 | ShadowJK | ubuntu says they'll allow native |
| 23:43.05 | jacekowski | ahm yeah |
| 23:43.07 | jacekowski | that's the one |
| 23:43.09 | M4rtinK | since I was once digging through the Open Layers source |
| 23:43.15 | jacekowski | i was thinking about ubuntu os |
| 23:43.19 | ShadowJK | wishes for device you can code on :) |
| 23:43.22 | M4rtinK | I can imaging how horrible it must look like :) |
| 23:43.28 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: get an ultrabook |
| 23:43.55 | M4rtinK | yeah - Ubuntu & Jolla & Plasma Active are the best candidates at the moment |
| 23:44.09 | ShadowJK | teotwaki; why |
| 23:44.25 | ShadowJK | if I code on computer I might as well code for computer |
| 23:44.46 | M4rtinK | the only question is how botched or cut down the resulting system is |
| 23:44.58 | ShadowJK | because then I'm still limited to nonportable :) |
| 23:45.03 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: because no matter how good the multitasking gets, you will always need a reference manual for the language you're using, and you will always need more screen real estate. |
| 23:45.43 | M4rtinK | if there is package manager with dependency resolution (this is a very unique Maemo 5 specific feature - most other mobile platforms are completely lacking this !) |
| 23:46.11 | jacekowski | dependency resolution done linux way is a bad idea |
| 23:46.20 | jacekowski | version conflicts and stuff |
| 23:46.35 | M4rtinK | or if there is another brain-dead stupid Aegis-like system |
| 23:46.50 | jacekowski | look up WinSxS |
| 23:47.01 | jacekowski | microsoft fix to conflicting .dll versions |
| 23:47.17 | jacekowski | how much ugly hacking it took to have something that works |
| 23:47.17 | M4rtinK | but it is needed |
| 23:47.46 | M4rtinK | I've been recently porting for BB10 & Android |
| 23:47.48 | jacekowski | doing it the linux was is not really possible in long term if you want comercial software |
| 23:47.51 | teotwaki | I think dependency managers work fine on Linux. |
| 23:47.57 | M4rtinK | you need to bundle everything there |
| 23:47.59 | jacekowski | for open source packages |
| 23:48.09 | jacekowski | M4rtinK: i think that's decent idea |
| 23:48.16 | jacekowski | it works much better than linux way |
| 23:48.17 | M4rtinK | so the an application what would be like 300 kB on Maemo |
| 23:48.18 | teotwaki | jacekowski: nha, we distribute commercial software through deb and rpm |
| 23:48.43 | M4rtinK | was 6.9 MB with heavy cutting of unnecessary libs & files on BB10 |
| 23:48.51 | jacekowski | do you build it for 100 different distro versions |
| 23:48.55 | teotwaki | just don't be an idiot and depend on non-compatibly licensed libraries. |
| 23:48.58 | M4rtinK | and 15 MB on Android (could be probably optimized a bit) |
| 23:49.15 | jacekowski | teotwaki: on bigger upgrade even glibc is upgraded |
| 23:49.48 | M4rtinK | at least BB10 has built in usable Qt libs & Python |
| 23:49.49 | jacekowski | so you have to make sure your application is building against latest upgrade |
| 23:50.02 | jacekowski | every single day |
| 23:50.03 | M4rtinK | and you can use Ministro on Android for Qt |
| 23:50.11 | teotwaki | jacekowski: we build it for every single version of Debian from 3.0 and up, Ubuntu 8 and up, FC 12 and up (I think, not sure), and Red Hat/CentOS 5.0 and up. |
| 23:50.24 | jacekowski | and it's pain in the ass to manage |
| 23:50.30 | teotwaki | I don't know how many different builds that is, but it works fine. |
| 23:50.38 | jacekowski | well, set up* |
| 23:50.41 | M4rtinK | but that means you have to bother users with installing it on first start - looks like quite a lot of users can't manage that |
| 23:51.13 | jacekowski | most of commercial software i've seen goes by way of shipping all dependencies inside the package |
| 23:51.28 | M4rtinK | and will be fun once there is an exploit for a widely bundled library :) |
| 23:51.44 | M4rtinK | jacekowski: well yeah, on PC |
| 23:51.45 | teotwaki | Yeah, but most commercial software hasn't had their packaging designed by smart people :) Just idiots who were under pressure and went "We'll dump everything in /opt". |
| 23:52.03 | M4rtinK | but if every mobile app has to drag 10MB+ of libs, that adds fast |
| 23:52.20 | jacekowski | which is why i think WinSxS is much better way of doing things |
| 23:52.22 | M4rtinK | and has to be downloaded, stored & separately loaded to memory |
| 23:52.43 | M4rtinK | it is inefficient as hell |
| 23:52.50 | *** join/#maemo RiD (GhostRider@bl22-170-139.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 23:52.57 | teotwaki | To be honest, once you have mock set up for all your target distros, and a local copy of the repositories you depend on, you're golden. Debian is even easier, just a simple chroot that is rebuilt automatically every couple of weeks. |
| 23:53.36 | teotwaki | It took me nearly a week to get it all setup, but we've never had any issues since then. We maintain our .spec files, and our .deb generators, and that's it. |
| 23:53.58 | teotwaki | And when an old distro doesn't use the library we need, we backport it and maintain that .deb/.rpm ourselves. |
| 23:54.02 | ShadowJK | hopes the ubuntu device will have better availability than typical nexus stuff |
| 23:54.16 | teotwaki | ShadowJK: yeah, the nexus 4 has been a real disaster. |
| 23:54.23 | teotwaki | I've had my order cancelled 3 times. |
| 23:54.31 | ShadowJK | 7 is hard to find too |
| 23:54.33 | jacekowski | ? |
| 23:54.39 | teotwaki | 7 is available in most local stores here |
| 23:54.55 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:55.21 | teotwaki | the nexus 4? |
| 23:55.39 | M4rtinK | <offtopic> I'Ve just finished my PySide for Android guide: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/PySideForAndroid </offtopic> :) |
| 23:55.41 | teotwaki | They've stocked a few thousand, and are producing them by the hundreds. |
| 23:55.47 | ShadowJK | the one with smaller storage is being sold for $650 here, but always out of stock |
| 23:55.56 | *** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f71833d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:55.58 | teotwaki | the nexus 7? |
| 23:56.01 | ShadowJK | 4 |
| 23:56.06 | teotwaki | holy fuck |
| 23:56.10 | teotwaki | it's 200 here... |
| 23:56.12 | teotwaki | (euros) |
| 23:56.37 | teotwaki | 300, sorry. |
| 23:56.59 | teotwaki | actually, the 350 one (16GB) is available, but "ships in 3 weeks". |
| 23:57.08 | teotwaki | Problem is, I bought it like that 3 times, and had my order cancelled 3 times. |
| 23:58.06 | ShadowJK | why are they selling a microsd-less device with only 8 or 16g storage :/ |
| 23:58.58 | teotwaki | because they need to push their cloud |
| 23:59.03 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 23:59.16 | teotwaki | I heard it's kinda rainy for Google's Cloud (pun intended) |
| 23:59.27 | ShadowJK | cloud is useless, burns up battery too fast |